I am not sure the government is dealing with perverse incentives here.
I for one would feel more confident to commute and travel about in London if masks were compulsory on the tube. The free for all make me more inclined to stay put. The tube is nasty at the best of times, but with CV19, nah no thanks.
A continuation of the incremental approach may have been wiser and helped the economy and society more.
i am exactly the opposite - will not go on public transport unless I can do so without a mask
Well you see, we have a world-beating vaccine programme
Exactly. But not to worry, the vaccine bounce will be long gone by the time of the GE.
I'd say the vaccine bounce is gone already. It didn't come because people like getting pins stuck in them, it came because it offered a route out of this mess. Now the route out of this mess hasn't happened, and the prospect of getting out of this mess either ahead of other countries or indeed at all appears to be receding, so does the credit the government get for vaccinating people. Two months ago vaccinations were going ahead at a goodly rate, the end appeared in sight and people were optimistic. Now, less so. The 'end of covid' bounce might come, if the end of covid comes. Or it might not, if it doesn't.
Chief Executive of LHR this morning on the radio said "people were told that the vaccines would deliver freedom and all they can see is other countries ahead of us in allowing their vaccinated population to travel whereas we can't".
Vaccines have delivered a great deal of freedom, and will deliver more on 19th July.
And yet, we'll still have to self-isolate if we come into contact with a covid case, which will be a virtual certainty. Gavin Williamson has announced the end of school bubbles, but everyone in school who comes into contact with a covid case will face another ten days house arrest. Which is exactly the same situation as now. Already we're getting noises rowing back on exactly how much freedom we'll get on 19th July and exactly how permanent it will be.
Forgive me, I'm still glowering with resentment about my daughter missing another ten days of her childhood, with not much apparent prospect in sight of it springing to life again afterwards. I can see that objectively, we are freer now than we were in February. And it's great news that Hancock and Cummings have gone. But my anxiety that this is as good as it gets and that it will probably get worse again outweighs my optimism that we will finally see freedom. They're gearing up for another last minute change of heart, aren't they?
Correct. In fact spot on cookie. Freedom Day + isolate if told you have had contact is not Freedom Day at all. The government supporters on here are not smart enough to realise this is not what business/schools/anything anywhere needs to be back to normal, it’s Freedom Day postponed by stealth.
I thought there would not be isolation for those who have been double jabbed unless you actually test positive for Covid.
Not until mid-August at the earliest, is my understanding.
DONG! The penny finally drops on PB, the government have delayed Freedom Day by stealth.
Just had a meeting where someone explained lockdowns using the paradox of thrift. It was a very interesting concept and it probably applies. He thinks certain countries will be liable to fall into semi-permanent restrictions because they will be unwilling to use their "savings" at any point in time thinking that there will always be some better moment to spend them and over time everyone loses from that.
New Zealand?
New Zealand has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the developed world now, not only lower than England, Wales and Scotland, NI and Ireland but lower than Germany, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Canada, the US, Israel, Australia and Japan and even lower than Brazil.
Ardern does not look as good as she did a few months ago on Covid
New Zealand started very well, but they are now in the position of having a still mostly vulnerable population with the virus much more transmissible and somewhat more harmful. They actually needed the vaccines at least as much as anyone else, as they have essentially shifted their potential first wave to a more perilous point in time.
The ONS has just released its latest antibody study results. They show that 90% of adults in England tested positive for the antibodies, as at week beginning 14th June (the figures will be higher now, of course). Wales is slightly higher, Scotland and NI a bit lower. Even in the 16-24 year old group, the figure is 60%, even though only 32% of that group had been jabbed at all and only 17% double-jabbed. We're immunising by infection in that group.
Now, testing positive for antibodies isn't a complete guarantee of good immunity, but it's a reasonable proxy. The plague is going to run out of victims before the most lurid predictions of case numbers can be reached, surely?
I am having real trouble reconciling 100k infections a day with even our current rate of vaccination for exactly that reason. I think that will prove highly pessimistic. I will be surprised if we get to 50k.
If it really is THAT infectious, you could perhaps have a very high daily number for say 10 days as it rips through all the unvaxxed - but then a very steep decline as it can't find fresh victims.
Although presumably vaxxed people can still test positive although the symptoms will or should be minimal for the vast majority.
Hence why hospitalisations remain the critical indicator.
Covid has lost the potency that caused us to close down the economy and borrow like we were at war.
It is a disease that will still cause death and misery, but not on a scale that required that war footing.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
I've been around these 'ere parts a few years now, and I have yet to see evidence that Roger has an ounce of maths in his body.
Reckless to open up but what about all the people who have to isolate?
WTAF? Utter dick.
Says the bloke who's repeatedly made the (good) point that he needs to break the habit of supporting the government.
Yes that is true. But as I also said just now, Boris, amazingly, managed to distil the essence of SKS' argument which was should face masks be mandatory on public transport. It was to hide that modest point that he started contradicting himself by saying we shouldn't open up now and we must stay locked down (was the clear implication) otherwise people will be forced to lock down.
Ok noted. Still, my suspicion now - because of your comment today and particularly its rather forceful and sweary tone - is that when you've been lambasting SKS for not opposing things it's had a lot to do with the fact that what he's not been opposing are things that YOU have been opposed to (eg instrusive lockdown restrictions).
It's only a suspicion, though, and it doesn't detract from the validity of the general point that he's been too much of a pussycat up to now. 100% agree with this and I'm glad it's changing. Gloves off, game on.
Just had a meeting where someone explained lockdowns using the paradox of thrift. It was a very interesting concept and it probably applies. He thinks certain countries will be liable to fall into semi-permanent restrictions because they will be unwilling to use their "savings" at any point in time thinking that there will always be some better moment to spend them and over time everyone loses from that.
New Zealand?
New Zealand has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the developed world now, not only lower than England, Wales and Scotland, NI and Ireland but lower than Germany, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Canada, Israel, Australia and Japan and even lower than Brazil.
Ardern does not look as good as she did a few months ago on Covid
Indeed. Fair comment.
NZ (and Aus) utterly fucked up vaccines.
Imagine if they were only a month behind the UK in vaccine rollout (a perfectly feasible figure).
They would have been the perfect zero covid poster child: open clubs, packed stadiums and full unlocking just around the corner.
Instead they've got themselves at the back of the queue and it will be months and months before they are vaccinated.
Lol at this. All those clowns proclaiming Ardens brilliance when most of what she could achieve was based on simple geography.
BTW, if anybody is looking for a post-Covid chateau in Normandy for a wedding or some other special gathering, my friend has now got the website up and running:
Beautiful. I am a Labour supporter and Scottish to boot but this doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I might put up our England bunting for the game tonight.
Although England are doing better than usual so far I was only thinking how few cars I've seen flying the flag. In previous tournaments every third or fourth car had one. I've only seen 2 in total so far this time. Same with houses, tiny fraction of the usual number. No idea if it's the same everywhere.
Lots of cars with England flags in SE London. Don't tend to get many houses with flags round here though.
Flag on house is a whole different order of things to flag on car.
Neither for me but what there is (for me) is an England shirt worn for every game with no post-modern irony whatsoever. I'm right behind this team. I would be anyway and it's made all the easier because of the vibe they emit. No egos, unshowy, organized and methodical, focused but not selfish or obsessed. Labour values, in other words. Not woke, mind, just bread and butter Labour values. The sort of team Keir Starmer would be sending out if he were in the dugout.
My neighbour (works in science, wife is a teacher) have an England flag hanging out of their window. It doesn't bother me one bit, but neither do I particularly want to copy them. Saw one other in Orchard Park during my run this morning (the much more interesting three-lions-on-red-background). There aren't many about.
Lol at this. All those clowns proclaiming Ardens brilliance when most of what she could achieve was based on simple geography.
It’s always been a marathon and not a sprint.
It's not even a marathon, short of something miraculous happening we will have to keep running indefinitely. So countries shouldn't only be thinking how do they get the vaccine now, but how do they ensure they get updated vaccines in volume everytime a new variant of concern emerges. That probably means make it yourselves or partner with countries that you can really trust. Every wealthy country should be investing in vaccine research and production for the long term.
Just had a meeting where someone explained lockdowns using the paradox of thrift. It was a very interesting concept and it probably applies. He thinks certain countries will be liable to fall into semi-permanent restrictions because they will be unwilling to use their "savings" at any point in time thinking that there will always be some better moment to spend them and over time everyone loses from that.
New Zealand?
Yeah that was one of the examples, he also specifically talked about how politicians and scientists have fallen into the habit of treating lockdown like a bank balance and using terms such as "hard won gains" wrt infection rates. It was a really good concept. He basically said countries will save up "future freedom credits" with lockdowns or other measures and be afraid to ever spend them because they fear it will run out. Look at what the scientists are saying this morning about having to possibly lockdown again in the autumn winter because our freedom credits will have been used up by then and we'll need to start saving more.
It was actually one of the best ways of looking at this I've come across in terms of human behavioural psychology.
Beautiful. I am a Labour supporter and Scottish to boot but this doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I might put up our England bunting for the game tonight.
Although England are doing better than usual so far I was only thinking how few cars I've seen flying the flag. In previous tournaments every third or fourth car had one. I've only seen 2 in total so far this time. Same with houses, tiny fraction of the usual number. No idea if it's the same everywhere.
Lots of cars with England flags in SE London. Don't tend to get many houses with flags round here though.
Flag on house is a whole different order of things to flag on car.
Neither for me but what there is (for me) is an England shirt worn for every game with no post-modern irony whatsoever. I'm right behind this team. I would be anyway and it's made all the easier because of the vibe they emit. No egos, unshowy, organized and methodical, focused but not selfish or obsessed. Labour values, in other words. Not woke, mind, just bread and butter Labour values. The sort of team Keir Starmer would be sending out if he were in the dugout.
Agree with you on the team, they're a great advert for the country. I've put up some England bunting on our house (our friend who lives over the road has accused me of lowering local house prices). Any other PB'ers got any flags up?
I'm confused. Starmer started by saying we were being reckless. Now he seems to share the concerns of businesses who don't want people to have to self-isolate.
Labour are all over the shop in trying too find a political "line". Painfully transparent.
Starmer has to build a rainbow coalition of angry people ranging from zerocovidians on the one hand to loony libertarians on the other with a few soothing words for antivaxxers into the bargain. How else to win power?
He needs to keep as many as possible of those who voted Lab in 2019 and add onto this as many as possible of those who didn't.
Who says PB isn't the home of incisive political analysis?
Well it's sometimes good to pare back to the very essence of things. Keep people honest.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
That's why in my original post I changed "EU" for the more generic "Europe". Had I said 'FIRST in the EU....' some pedant would say 'we're not in the EU'.
If you're suggesting my post is invalid because it's using statistics selectively I'd suggest reading the small print on your mothballed Red Bus.
Beautiful. I am a Labour supporter and Scottish to boot but this doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I might put up our England bunting for the game tonight.
Although England are doing better than usual so far I was only thinking how few cars I've seen flying the flag. In previous tournaments every third or fourth car had one. I've only seen 2 in total so far this time. Same with houses, tiny fraction of the usual number. No idea if it's the same everywhere.
Lots of cars with England flags in SE London. Don't tend to get many houses with flags round here though.
Flag on house is a whole different order of things to flag on car.
Neither for me but what there is (for me) is an England shirt worn for every game with no post-modern irony whatsoever. I'm right behind this team. I would be anyway and it's made all the easier because of the vibe they emit. No egos, unshowy, organized and methodical, focused but not selfish or obsessed. Labour values, in other words. Not woke, mind, just bread and butter Labour values. The sort of team Keir Starmer would be sending out if he were in the dugout.
Mm. Certainly less obviously full of absolute bellends than in the Sven era.
I take your political angle with the appropriate pinch of salt - but I also take the 'no egos' with a pinch of salt. There are some colossal egos in there, just perhaps not quite the size of the previous generation.
I was talking to my wife about this last night: - first, why do footballers - or indeed any famous person who doesn't need to - have a Twitter account? The downside is far, far greater than the upside. Her view - which I liked - was that it's all about the sort of person who becomes famous. A famous footballers (or in most cases famous anything) has a self-belief you could cut diamond with. It doesn't cross their minds for a minute that people wouldn't want to know what they think about everything, all the time. (Actually, I always liked Paul Scholes' approach. Never gave interviews. Doesn't, as far as I can see, have a twitter account, or at least not one which looks either a) used and b) genuine. He may, who knows, be a contemptible nobend in private. But at least he didn't feel the need to open up to the world remove any doubt.) - second, footballers whose instinct on scoring is to find the nearest television camera and preen into it are contemptible, and, I suspect, not exactly human. Given a stadium-full of people cheering for something you've achieved, seeking out the virtual ones would not be an instinctive choice.
On the broader point - I'm quite comfortable with displays of patriotism, and indeed I'm pretty patriotic myself, but what I feel about this England team is - nothing. Doesn't move me at all. Nor, as it happens, does rugby or cricket, any more. Whereas covid has left some people without tastes of smell or taste, the last year has left without an ability to connect emotionally with sport. I feel a bit sad about this. I used to love international tournaments - at previous tournaments I would have been delighted to see England winning. Now, nothing. A nod that Harry Kane has indeed extended his large triangular head and nodded the ball into the net. I'm happy for my friends and family, who still do set great store by seeing England win. And indeed I'm happy that complete strangers are happy. But the match itself leaves me unmoved. I'm interested, but not happy or sad at the result, apart from a numb sadness that it no longer makes me happy.
I'm actually going to an England T20 game in two weeks' time. I'm hoping this will rekindle my enthusiasm, but I'm fearful that it won't.
I am not sure the government is dealing with perverse incentives here.
I for one would feel more confident to commute and travel about in London if masks were compulsory on the tube. The free for all make me more inclined to stay put. The tube is nasty at the best of times, but with CV19, nah no thanks.
A continuation of the incremental approach may have been wiser and helped the economy and society more.
I feel the same about the train - I have no wish to get on a train for an hour twice a day at the moment - especially the ones where you cant even open windows
Well you see, we have a world-beating vaccine programme
Exactly. But not to worry, the vaccine bounce will be long gone by the time of the GE.
I'd say the vaccine bounce is gone already. It didn't come because people like getting pins stuck in them, it came because it offered a route out of this mess. Now the route out of this mess hasn't happened, and the prospect of getting out of this mess either ahead of other countries or indeed at all appears to be receding, so does the credit the government get for vaccinating people. Two months ago vaccinations were going ahead at a goodly rate, the end appeared in sight and people were optimistic. Now, less so. The 'end of covid' bounce might come, if the end of covid comes. Or it might not, if it doesn't.
Chief Executive of LHR this morning on the radio said "people were told that the vaccines would deliver freedom and all they can see is other countries ahead of us in allowing their vaccinated population to travel whereas we can't".
Vaccines have delivered a great deal of freedom, and will deliver more on 19th July.
And yet, we'll still have to self-isolate if we come into contact with a covid case, which will be a virtual certainty. Gavin Williamson has announced the end of school bubbles, but everyone in school who comes into contact with a covid case will face another ten days house arrest. Which is exactly the same situation as now. Already we're getting noises rowing back on exactly how much freedom we'll get on 19th July and exactly how permanent it will be.
Forgive me, I'm still glowering with resentment about my daughter missing another ten days of her childhood, with not much apparent prospect in sight of it springing to life again afterwards. I can see that objectively, we are freer now than we were in February. And it's great news that Hancock and Cummings have gone. But my anxiety that this is as good as it gets and that it will probably get worse again outweighs my optimism that we will finally see freedom. They're gearing up for another last minute change of heart, aren't they?
Correct. In fact spot on cookie. Freedom Day + isolate if told you have had contact is not Freedom Day at all. The government supporters on here are not smart enough to realise this is not what business/schools/anything anywhere needs to be back to normal, it’s Freedom Day postponed by stealth.
I thought there would not be isolation for those who have been double jabbed unless you actually test positive for Covid.
Not until mid-August at the earliest, is my understanding.
I get less exercised on this point as you basically have to actively participate in their games to get caught up in it.
Not entirely sure how it would even work anyway as people talk about getting phone call check ups but I certainly don't have a home phone in action anymore.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
That's why in my original post I changed "EU" for the more generic "Europe". Had I said 'FIRST in the EU....' some pedant would say 'we're not in the EU'.
If you're suggesting my post is invalid because it's using statistics selectively I'd suggest reading the small print on your mothballed Red Bus.
(or not so small print)
It's already been pointed out many times that it's invalid, even when restricting it to the EU.
Sir Graham Brady has just been re-elected chair of the 1922 Committee. Has defeated a challenge from Heather Wheeler, widely seen as No10's candidate to oust him.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
That's why in my original post I changed "EU" for the more generic "Europe". Had I said 'FIRST in the EU....' some pedant would say 'we're not in the EU'.
If you're suggesting my post is invalid because it's using statistics selectively I'd suggest reading the small print on your mothballed Red Bus.
(or not so small print)
Your claim is a lie though, no ifs or buts.
New deaths in the UK are nothing like they are in the EU and haven't been for months. Thank goodness for them the EU are belatedly catching up with the UK in vaccinations and halting deaths as a result. Plus they've adopted our first dose first strategy which is working.
As for the Red Bus it has been honoured in full. The NHS has got the £350mn per week promised and then some!
Well you see, we have a world-beating vaccine programme
Exactly. But not to worry, the vaccine bounce will be long gone by the time of the GE.
I'd say the vaccine bounce is gone already. It didn't come because people like getting pins stuck in them, it came because it offered a route out of this mess. Now the route out of this mess hasn't happened, and the prospect of getting out of this mess either ahead of other countries or indeed at all appears to be receding, so does the credit the government get for vaccinating people. Two months ago vaccinations were going ahead at a goodly rate, the end appeared in sight and people were optimistic. Now, less so. The 'end of covid' bounce might come, if the end of covid comes. Or it might not, if it doesn't.
Chief Executive of LHR this morning on the radio said "people were told that the vaccines would deliver freedom and all they can see is other countries ahead of us in allowing their vaccinated population to travel whereas we can't".
Vaccines have delivered a great deal of freedom, and will deliver more on 19th July.
And yet, we'll still have to self-isolate if we come into contact with a covid case, which will be a virtual certainty. Gavin Williamson has announced the end of school bubbles, but everyone in school who comes into contact with a covid case will face another ten days house arrest. Which is exactly the same situation as now. Already we're getting noises rowing back on exactly how much freedom we'll get on 19th July and exactly how permanent it will be.
Forgive me, I'm still glowering with resentment about my daughter missing another ten days of her childhood, with not much apparent prospect in sight of it springing to life again afterwards. I can see that objectively, we are freer now than we were in February. And it's great news that Hancock and Cummings have gone. But my anxiety that this is as good as it gets and that it will probably get worse again outweighs my optimism that we will finally see freedom. They're gearing up for another last minute change of heart, aren't they?
Correct. In fact spot on cookie. Freedom Day + isolate if told you have had contact is not Freedom Day at all. The government supporters on here are not smart enough to realise this is not what business/schools/anything anywhere needs to be back to normal, it’s Freedom Day postponed by stealth.
I thought there would not be isolation for those who have been double jabbed unless you actually test positive for Covid.
Not until mid-August at the earliest, is my understanding.
I get less exercised on this point as you basically have to actively participate in their games to get caught up in it.
Not entirely sure how it would even work anyway as people talk about getting phone call check ups but I certainly don't have a home phone in action anymore.
Yes, I'm not sure either. I'm already wary of answering any phone calls from numbers I don't know.
Just had a meeting where someone explained lockdowns using the paradox of thrift. It was a very interesting concept and it probably applies. He thinks certain countries will be liable to fall into semi-permanent restrictions because they will be unwilling to use their "savings" at any point in time thinking that there will always be some better moment to spend them and over time everyone loses from that.
New Zealand?
New Zealand has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the developed world now, not only lower than England, Wales and Scotland, NI and Ireland but lower than Germany, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Canada, Israel, Australia and Japan and even lower than Brazil.
Ardern does not look as good as she did a few months ago on Covid
Indeed. Fair comment.
NZ (and Aus) utterly fucked up vaccines.
Imagine if they were only a month behind the UK in vaccine rollout (a perfectly feasible figure).
They would have been the perfect zero covid poster child: open clubs, packed stadiums and full unlocking just around the corner.
Instead they've got themselves at the back of the queue and it will be months and months before they are vaccinated.
It is beyond bizarre. The only thing I can ascribe it to is complacency. But Jacinda doesn’t seem the type.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Well you see, we have a world-beating vaccine programme
Exactly. But not to worry, the vaccine bounce will be long gone by the time of the GE.
I'd say the vaccine bounce is gone already. It didn't come because people like getting pins stuck in them, it came because it offered a route out of this mess. Now the route out of this mess hasn't happened, and the prospect of getting out of this mess either ahead of other countries or indeed at all appears to be receding, so does the credit the government get for vaccinating people. Two months ago vaccinations were going ahead at a goodly rate, the end appeared in sight and people were optimistic. Now, less so. The 'end of covid' bounce might come, if the end of covid comes. Or it might not, if it doesn't.
Chief Executive of LHR this morning on the radio said "people were told that the vaccines would deliver freedom and all they can see is other countries ahead of us in allowing their vaccinated population to travel whereas we can't".
Vaccines have delivered a great deal of freedom, and will deliver more on 19th July.
And yet, we'll still have to self-isolate if we come into contact with a covid case, which will be a virtual certainty. Gavin Williamson has announced the end of school bubbles, but everyone in school who comes into contact with a covid case will face another ten days house arrest. Which is exactly the same situation as now. Already we're getting noises rowing back on exactly how much freedom we'll get on 19th July and exactly how permanent it will be.
Forgive me, I'm still glowering with resentment about my daughter missing another ten days of her childhood, with not much apparent prospect in sight of it springing to life again afterwards. I can see that objectively, we are freer now than we were in February. And it's great news that Hancock and Cummings have gone. But my anxiety that this is as good as it gets and that it will probably get worse again outweighs my optimism that we will finally see freedom. They're gearing up for another last minute change of heart, aren't they?
Correct. In fact spot on cookie. Freedom Day + isolate if told you have had contact is not Freedom Day at all. The government supporters on here are not smart enough to realise this is not what business/schools/anything anywhere needs to be back to normal, it’s Freedom Day postponed by stealth.
I thought there would not be isolation for those who have been double jabbed unless you actually test positive for Covid.
Not until mid-August at the earliest, is my understanding.
I get less exercised on this point as you basically have to actively participate in their games to get caught up in it.
Not entirely sure how it would even work anyway as people talk about getting phone call check ups but I certainly don't have a home phone in action anymore.
Yes, I'm not sure either. I'm already wary of answering any phone calls from numbers I don't know.
I appreciate it's different for people with school age kids, but otherwise within my own sphere + 1 degree of separation the only stories I hear of people self isolating are people talking about work colleagues with questionable reputations as to work ethic.
Unless you're genuinely living in fear and looking for a warning, or quite keen on some paid leave, I don't see how track and trace impacts people.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Singapore can act in ways our lockdown fetishers can only dream of
Beautiful. I am a Labour supporter and Scottish to boot but this doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I might put up our England bunting for the game tonight.
Although England are doing better than usual so far I was only thinking how few cars I've seen flying the flag. In previous tournaments every third or fourth car had one. I've only seen 2 in total so far this time. Same with houses, tiny fraction of the usual number. No idea if it's the same everywhere.
Lots of cars with England flags in SE London. Don't tend to get many houses with flags round here though.
Flag on house is a whole different order of things to flag on car.
Neither for me but what there is (for me) is an England shirt worn for every game with no post-modern irony whatsoever. I'm right behind this team. I would be anyway and it's made all the easier because of the vibe they emit. No egos, unshowy, organized and methodical, focused but not selfish or obsessed. Labour values, in other words. Not woke, mind, just bread and butter Labour values. The sort of team Keir Starmer would be sending out if he were in the dugout.
Mm. Certainly less obviously full of absolute bellends than in the Sven era.
I take your political angle with the appropriate pinch of salt - but I also take the 'no egos' with a pinch of salt. There are some colossal egos in there, just perhaps not quite the size of the previous generation.
I was talking to my wife about this last night: - first, why do footballers - or indeed any famous person who doesn't need to - have a Twitter account? The downside is far, far greater than the upside. Her view - which I liked - was that it's all about the sort of person who becomes famous. A famous footballers (or in most cases famous anything) has a self-belief you could cut diamond with. It doesn't cross their minds for a minute that people wouldn't want to know what they think about everything, all the time. (Actually, I always liked Paul Scholes' approach. Never gave interviews. Doesn't, as far as I can see, have a twitter account, or at least not one which looks either a) used and b) genuine. He may, who knows, be a contemptible nobend in private. But at least he didn't feel the need to open up to the world remove any doubt.) - second, footballers whose instinct on scoring is to find the nearest television camera and preen into it are contemptible, and, I suspect, not exactly human. Given a stadium-full of people cheering for something you've achieved, seeking out the virtual ones would not be an instinctive choice.
On the broader point - I'm quite comfortable with displays of patriotism, and indeed I'm pretty patriotic myself, but what I feel about this England team is - nothing. Doesn't move me at all. Nor, as it happens, does rugby or cricket, any more. Whereas covid has left some people without tastes of smell or taste, the last year has left without an ability to connect emotionally with sport. I feel a bit sad about this. I used to love international tournaments - at previous tournaments I would have been delighted to see England winning. Now, nothing. A nod that Harry Kane has indeed extended his large triangular head and nodded the ball into the net. I'm happy for my friends and family, who still do set great store by seeing England win. And indeed I'm happy that complete strangers are happy. But the match itself leaves me unmoved. I'm interested, but not happy or sad at the result, apart from a numb sadness that it no longer makes me happy.
I'm actually going to an England T20 game in two weeks' time. I'm hoping this will rekindle my enthusiasm, but I'm fearful that it won't.
Sorry to hear this. I had lost interest in sport but it's coming back now. Football, tennis, golf, racing, F1, all of these.
As for this England team, I like them a lot. Footballwise and their spirit/aura.
So much better than the days of the WAGS, and 'what the fuck's wrong with Rooney?' and 'Gerrard and Lampard can't play together' and John Terry giving it the big I am and parking his monstrosity in disabled spots.
The ONS has just released its latest antibody study results. They show that 90% of adults in England tested positive for the antibodies, as at week beginning 14th June (the figures will be higher now, of course). Wales is slightly higher, Scotland and NI a bit lower. Even in the 16-24 year old group, the figure is 60%, even though only 32% of that group had been jabbed at all and only 17% double-jabbed. We're immunising by infection in that group.
Now, testing positive for antibodies isn't a complete guarantee of good immunity, but it's a reasonable proxy. The plague is going to run out of victims before the most lurid predictions of case numbers can be reached, surely?
Unless there are horrible drop offs in immunity and a balls up on booster vaccines, it's hard to see how this winter will be too scary from a covid-19 perspective. One assumes that most of the vaccine refuseniks will be self immunised by the end of the summer and the kids by Halloween.
Influenza has the capacity to be nasty though doesn't it. To what extent will the lessons learned on staying at home when ill, hand washing, persistent work from home etc... blunt what is likely to be a roll of the dice on the flu vaccine front?
My understanding is that we have a big problem ahead of us, in that everyone normally involved in working on next year's flu virus has been working on coronavirus. (For some reason I can't understand, flu viruses appear to start in Asia each year and work their way west. Thus, we can see what they're like in the east before they get to us.)
"Surrender Bill"..."Freedom Day"...you gotta wonder whether Johnsonism might be vulnerable to an opposition that appeals to intellect, or just to the post-infant mind. Or perhaps this is wishful thinking.
I'm confused. Starmer started by saying we were being reckless. Now he seems to share the concerns of businesses who don't want people to have to self-isolate.
Labour are all over the shop in trying too find a political "line". Painfully transparent.
Starmer has to build a rainbow coalition of angry people ranging from zerocovidians on the one hand to loony libertarians on the other with a few soothing words for antivaxxers into the bargain. How else to win power?
Are you saying he can't win power then? Because doing it like that seems a bit of a tall order. Perhaps he just has to wait, while building up an attack capability. When the enemy thinks you are near, be far away. When the enemy thinks you are far away, be near.
"Surrender Bill"..."Freedom Day"...you gotta wonder whether Johnsonism might be vulnerable to an opposition that appeals to intellect, or just to the post-infant mind. Or perhaps this is wishful thinking.
Was it the government that dubbed it Freedom day? I thought it was the press.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
That's why in my original post I changed "EU" for the more generic "Europe". Had I said 'FIRST in the EU....' some pedant would say 'we're not in the EU'.
If you're suggesting my post is invalid because it's using statistics selectively I'd suggest reading the small print on your mothballed Red Bus.
(or not so small print)
“I first intended to say something stupidly wrong, but luckily I realised my mistake and changed it to something else that is just as wrong. Now people are laughing at me. Hello I’m Roger. Yes. Tampons. I want to go home now please, I’m confused.”
The ONS has just released its latest antibody study results. They show that 90% of adults in England tested positive for the antibodies, as at week beginning 14th June (the figures will be higher now, of course). Wales is slightly higher, Scotland and NI a bit lower. Even in the 16-24 year old group, the figure is 60%, even though only 32% of that group had been jabbed at all and only 17% double-jabbed. We're immunising by infection in that group.
Now, testing positive for antibodies isn't a complete guarantee of good immunity, but it's a reasonable proxy. The plague is going to run out of victims before the most lurid predictions of case numbers can be reached, surely?
I am having real trouble reconciling 100k infections a day with even our current rate of vaccination for exactly that reason. I think that will prove highly pessimistic. I will be surprised if we get to 50k.
50K and 100K are only one doubling interval away - what is that? 10 days?
Just had a meeting where someone explained lockdowns using the paradox of thrift. It was a very interesting concept and it probably applies. He thinks certain countries will be liable to fall into semi-permanent restrictions because they will be unwilling to use their "savings" at any point in time thinking that there will always be some better moment to spend them and over time everyone loses from that.
New Zealand?
New Zealand has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the developed world now, not only lower than England, Wales and Scotland, NI and Ireland but lower than Germany, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Canada, Israel, Australia and Japan and even lower than Brazil.
Ardern does not look as good as she did a few months ago on Covid
Indeed. Fair comment.
NZ (and Aus) utterly fucked up vaccines.
Imagine if they were only a month behind the UK in vaccine rollout (a perfectly feasible figure).
They would have been the perfect zero covid poster child: open clubs, packed stadiums and full unlocking just around the corner.
Instead they've got themselves at the back of the queue and it will be months and months before they are vaccinated.
It is beyond bizarre. The only thing I can ascribe it to is complacency. But Jacinda doesn’t seem the type.
If only a small minority wish to travel outside their borders (and for many in Australia that do, it was only as far as Bali), are happy with the status quo and believe that foreign = covid = death, then it is hard to see how change will happen. Opening borders will lead to Covid deaths and accepting that will happen requires a mental change which seems unlikely at this point. Trashing vaccines has also become a national sport in Australia and unwillingness to be vaccinated means that the critical mass of immunity will not be there.
Hong Kong is in a similar position. But with the government pushing the near worthless Chinese vaccines.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Bulgaria 433 Russia 338 Serbia 320 Lithuania 319 North Macedonia 319 Czech Republic 300 Slovakia 270 Poland 264 Bosnia and Herzegovnia 245 Romania 236 Moldova 231 Hungary 228 Albania 206 Portugal 203 Kosovo 200 Italy 197 Slovenia 185 Britain 180 Croatia 176 Spain 170 Belgium 165 Montenegro 154 Latvia 134 Ukraine 133 Georgia 129 Kyrgyzstan 128 France 126 Estonia 124 Netherlands 117 Switzerland 108 Austria 105 Sweden 102 Germany 63 Malta 51 Luxembourg 50 Greece 38 Finland 18 Denmark -1
So the UK is about middle of the pack, despite being on of the densest nations on the planet. Which means in my opinion the UK has done better than you'd expect all else being equal. Certainly without cherry picking exceptions like Germany, it seems the UK has not done worse or led to a "very high" death rate.
Certainly there's no reason we couldn't have been towards the top of that list with a death rate roughly twice what we have got if we really had done "catastrophically" and without vaccines I imagine that would have been very plausible.
But we had more warning, and we are an island. We had advantages we did not exploit. We should be nearer the bottom of that table
We fucked up on the borders, on that we can all agree
Not just that. Look at the countries that have done worse than the UK. It's a long list, sure, but "better than Bulgaria and Bosnia" isn't saying much. If you take Western European countries as your comparator, the UK has done about 10% better than Italy and Portugal, slightly worse than Spain. And, with great affection for Spain, Spain is not well run.
The countries that we like to compare ourselves with- that we really ought to compare ourselves with- the likes of France, Germany, Benelux, Austria are all doing an awful lot better at keeping people alive.
The UK is not well run either, I think the last year and a half has made that extremely obvious. Anyone trying to say otherwise should have their head examined.
That’s the bloody point.
The comparison is with Benelux, France, and Germany.
Most countries have fucked this up somehow.
We seem to have fucked up more than we ought, and the blame rests with the government.
My takeaway from Philip's figures is that East Europe has had a nightmare. They also have poor vaccination rates. The UK has had one of the worst death rates of the rest.
Of the densely populated nations we've done better than Italy and Portugal, and comparable to Belgium and Spain who will finish at or around our figures.
Germany are the exception not the norm.
There is little correlation in those figures between population density and excess deaths. Denmark is the most egregious example. Netherlands also. You are cherry picking your figures.
Bullshit, there is an absolutely massive correlation between population density and excess deaths.
Even look at the UK's own data. The biggest single issue that explains Coronavirus excess deaths once you take into account age profile etc is population density.
Locations in the UK with lower levels of population density have had considerably lower death rates.
There is little correlation in the table that you supplied between population density and Covid deaths, which allow you to discount "low density" countries such as the Netherlands and Denmark from consideration. In fact every country in Western Europe is discounted from your consideration on grounds of population density, except the five ones with the worst death rates.
That's what I mean by cherry-picking your figures.
Of course low density nations like Denmark should not be contrasted with incredibly high density England.
The Netherlands are a high density but small country which is an interesting comparator, though Belgium next door while equally small have death rates comparable to the UKs.
Denmark, like Britain, is a country with large concentrations of people in a few cities, and thinly-populated rural areas in between. The difference isn't as stark as you imply.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
It must be hard when the enemy doesn't conform to the stereotypes that you wish to ascribe to them.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
That's why in my original post I changed "EU" for the more generic "Europe". Had I said 'FIRST in the EU....' some pedant would say 'we're not in the EU'.
If you're suggesting my post is invalid because it's using statistics selectively I'd suggest reading the small print on your mothballed Red Bus.
(or not so small print)
Your claim is a lie though, no ifs or buts.
New deaths in the UK are nothing like they are in the EU and haven't been for months. Thank goodness for them the EU are belatedly catching up with the UK in vaccinations and halting deaths as a result. Plus they've adopted our first dose first strategy which is working.
As for the Red Bus it has been honoured in full. The NHS has got the £350mn per week promised and then some!
'Yesterday' is the last day with complete figures. Click it at your convenience and then a brief apology addressed to Carter Ruck. Most statistics are selective as Dominic Cummings will tell you
Just had a meeting where someone explained lockdowns using the paradox of thrift. It was a very interesting concept and it probably applies. He thinks certain countries will be liable to fall into semi-permanent restrictions because they will be unwilling to use their "savings" at any point in time thinking that there will always be some better moment to spend them and over time everyone loses from that.
New Zealand?
New Zealand has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the developed world now, not only lower than England, Wales and Scotland, NI and Ireland but lower than Germany, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Canada, Israel, Australia and Japan and even lower than Brazil.
Ardern does not look as good as she did a few months ago on Covid
Indeed. Fair comment.
NZ (and Aus) utterly fucked up vaccines.
Imagine if they were only a month behind the UK in vaccine rollout (a perfectly feasible figure).
They would have been the perfect zero covid poster child: open clubs, packed stadiums and full unlocking just around the corner.
Instead they've got themselves at the back of the queue and it will be months and months before they are vaccinated.
It is beyond bizarre. The only thing I can ascribe it to is complacency. But Jacinda doesn’t seem the type.
If only a small minority wish to travel outside their borders (and for many in Australia that do, it was only as far as Bali), are happy with the status quo and believe that foreign = covid = death, then it is hard to see how change will happen. Opening borders will lead to Covid deaths and accepting that will happen requires a mental change which seems unlikely at this point. Trashing vaccines has also become a national sport in Australia and unwillingness to be vaccinated means that the critical mass of immunity will not be there.
Hong Kong is in a similar position. But with the government pushing the near worthless Chinese vaccines.
They are similar to western ones at preventing serious illness and death. Less effective at preventing transmission though. To call them near worthless is absurd.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
That's why in my original post I changed "EU" for the more generic "Europe". Had I said 'FIRST in the EU....' some pedant would say 'we're not in the EU'.
If you're suggesting my post is invalid because it's using statistics selectively I'd suggest reading the small print on your mothballed Red Bus.
(or not so small print)
“I first intended to say something stupidly wrong, but luckily I realised my mistake and changed it to something else that is just as wrong. Now people are laughing at me. Hello I’m Roger. Yes. Tampons. I want to go home now please, I’m confused.”
Come on, help him out. There's got to be a way of cherry picking the data so Britain is worst at everything. I'm sure if we all put our heads together, we can find it.
I'll start. Most COVID deaths per gallons of tea drunk daily per head of population. In European countries with first letters in the second half of the alphabet.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
That's why in my original post I changed "EU" for the more generic "Europe". Had I said 'FIRST in the EU....' some pedant would say 'we're not in the EU'.
If you're suggesting my post is invalid because it's using statistics selectively I'd suggest reading the small print on your mothballed Red Bus.
(or not so small print)
Your claim is a lie though, no ifs or buts.
New deaths in the UK are nothing like they are in the EU and haven't been for months. Thank goodness for them the EU are belatedly catching up with the UK in vaccinations and halting deaths as a result. Plus they've adopted our first dose first strategy which is working.
As for the Red Bus it has been honoured in full. The NHS has got the £350mn per week promised and then some!
'Yesterday' is the last day with complete figures. Click it at your convenience and then a brief apology addressed to Carter Ruck. Most statistics are selective. You're obviously not familiar with advertising.
The seven-day average, and per capita, is a far better way of looking at it. Less sensitive to incomplete data and reporting variations. Click "2 Days ago" if you don't believe me.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Just had a meeting where someone explained lockdowns using the paradox of thrift. It was a very interesting concept and it probably applies. He thinks certain countries will be liable to fall into semi-permanent restrictions because they will be unwilling to use their "savings" at any point in time thinking that there will always be some better moment to spend them and over time everyone loses from that.
New Zealand?
New Zealand has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the developed world now, not only lower than England, Wales and Scotland, NI and Ireland but lower than Germany, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Canada, Israel, Australia and Japan and even lower than Brazil.
Ardern does not look as good as she did a few months ago on Covid
Indeed. Fair comment.
NZ (and Aus) utterly fucked up vaccines.
Imagine if they were only a month behind the UK in vaccine rollout (a perfectly feasible figure).
They would have been the perfect zero covid poster child: open clubs, packed stadiums and full unlocking just around the corner.
Instead they've got themselves at the back of the queue and it will be months and months before they are vaccinated.
It is beyond bizarre. The only thing I can ascribe it to is complacency. But Jacinda doesn’t seem the type.
If only a small minority wish to travel outside their borders (and for many in Australia that do, it was only as far as Bali), are happy with the status quo and believe that foreign = covid = death, then it is hard to see how change will happen. Opening borders will lead to Covid deaths and accepting that will happen requires a mental change which seems unlikely at this point. Trashing vaccines has also become a national sport in Australia and unwillingness to be vaccinated means that the critical mass of immunity will not be there.
Hong Kong is in a similar position. But with the government pushing the near worthless Chinese vaccines.
They are similar to western ones at preventing serious illness and death. Less effective at preventing transmission though. To call them near worthless is absurd.
Just had a meeting where someone explained lockdowns using the paradox of thrift. It was a very interesting concept and it probably applies. He thinks certain countries will be liable to fall into semi-permanent restrictions because they will be unwilling to use their "savings" at any point in time thinking that there will always be some better moment to spend them and over time everyone loses from that.
New Zealand?
New Zealand has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the developed world now, not only lower than England, Wales and Scotland, NI and Ireland but lower than Germany, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Canada, Israel, Australia and Japan and even lower than Brazil.
Ardern does not look as good as she did a few months ago on Covid
Indeed. Fair comment.
NZ (and Aus) utterly fucked up vaccines.
Imagine if they were only a month behind the UK in vaccine rollout (a perfectly feasible figure).
They would have been the perfect zero covid poster child: open clubs, packed stadiums and full unlocking just around the corner.
Instead they've got themselves at the back of the queue and it will be months and months before they are vaccinated.
It is beyond bizarre. The only thing I can ascribe it to is complacency. But Jacinda doesn’t seem the type.
If only a small minority wish to travel outside their borders (and for many in Australia that do, it was only as far as Bali), are happy with the status quo and believe that foreign = covid = death, then it is hard to see how change will happen. Opening borders will lead to Covid deaths and accepting that will happen requires a mental change which seems unlikely at this point. Trashing vaccines has also become a national sport in Australia and unwillingness to be vaccinated means that the critical mass of immunity will not be there.
Hong Kong is in a similar position. But with the government pushing the near worthless Chinese vaccines.
They are similar to western ones at preventing serious illness and death. Less effective at preventing transmission though. To call them near worthless is absurd.
My issue with China, apart from the way it treats its own people, is that it advances the authoritarian, anti-democratic surveillance state as a model of development.
Ultimately, that’s a threat to our way of life, or perhaps our children’s way of life.
One of the best things Britain can do, in my opinion, is better uphold democracy, liberty and the rule of law in *this* country, thereby acting as an example to others.
We did this quite well for a hundred years or so.
Fun fact, I was taught by someone later outed as a Chinese spy at University.
Fat chance when we've got Sunak wanting a more "nuanced" relationship with China, "nuanced" meaning "we promise we won't ever criticise you".
The tables have turned since the 19th century. We now allow China to buy up and modernise our infrastructure, and are reliant on Chinese capital and investment.
My issue with China, apart from the way it treats its own people, is that it advances the authoritarian, anti-democratic surveillance state as a model of development.
Ultimately, that’s a threat to our way of life, or perhaps our children’s way of life.
One of the best things Britain can do, in my opinion, is better uphold democracy, liberty and the rule of law in *this* country, thereby acting as an example to others.
We did this quite well for a hundred years or so.
Fun fact, I was taught by someone later outed as a Chinese spy at University.
Fat chance when we've got Sunak wanting a more "nuanced" relationship with China, "nuanced" meaning "we promise we won't ever criticise you".
We do have to live with China somehow. We can’t wish it away. Therefore, I’m reserving judgment on Sunak’s comments.
I don’t even especially think it necessary for the govt to “criticise” China, but I do want it to promote our values, and protect our strategic industries and technologies.
There is a difference between living with a country and bending over and holding our ankles.
Making pacts with the devil is never a good idea. And yes I do believe China under the current regime is a devil. It is a threat to freedom and liberty and democracy. The more we depend on it, the more that will threaten our freedom, liberty and democracy.
Except that the move is now (albeit slight so far) away from dependence. The recent sharp spike in transport costs, and the massive delays in getting some types of goods out of China, have opened quite a few peoples eyes, irrespective of any human rights objections. Sunak and the government will be judged by their deeds rather than his words; I don't have any great confidence in them either, but we'll see.
I hope so.
Not content with persecuting Uighurs in China, it is now going after Uighurs who have managed to escape abroad.
China is IMO an evil regime and we should sup with them with a very long spoon indeed, if we have to sup with them at all.
I forget where I read it, but I found somewhere a suggestion ..... from someone who thought about these things ..... that today's Chinese leaders may describe themselves as Communists, but they are in fact in the long tradition of Emperors, and that they, perhaps subconsciously, believe that the Han are the superior group in humanity, and that everyone else should try to become Han, or to be made Han.
For their own good!
That's not saying that I disagree with Ms Cyclefree, that we should be very, very cautious in our dealing with the Chinese Government. I'm say that we ought to be very careful in our dealing with any Chinese Government, and that caution should take into account the fact that while the current Government may be Communist, it's still Chinese, and remembers the indignities heaped upon the country by 19th & early 20th Century Westerners.
And a somewhat belated Good Morning everyone!
Morning! Just reading a history of the siege of the German base in Tsingtao (as it was called then) by the Japanese in WW1. The Germans just rocked up in the 1890s and said 'we'll have our base here, thank you very much' - in the ensuing disputes, they paid serious attention only to the other Western (incl Russia) governments.
Which reminds me, the Japanese also were honorary Westerners. Which puts an interesting light, from the Chine3se point of view, on the current discussions in Japan over whether to deal with the Taiwan issue by allying with the USA.
Most people do forget - or never knew - that the Japanese were our allies in WW1. I have a fascinating account by a soldier of the machine gun corps crossing the Mediterranean from Marseille to Egypt in 1918 and their ship being protected by a couple of Japanese destroyers hunting for Austro-Hungarian submarines.
Why the Japanese changed sides is also fascinating. According to an Australian expert (at least, that was how he was introduced) at the River Kwai in Thailand post WWI the USA didn't want the British 'interfering' in North Pacific affairs.
Late 19C is an equally interesting period of history in the Pacific.
The USA did not have a serious navy until the very late Victorian period, and were actually outmatched by South American countries for a good time before that due to an arms race funded by guano. There was no need, and Congress kept having high ambitions then refusing the necessary budget.
And Japan got into bed with the UK for naval technology, as the RN was still the hegemonic power, and the US was predicted as their main Pacific rival. Good way to avoid a war with the USA at a time the USA had just knocked the Spanish over.
So a number of the Japanese ships that wiped out the Russian fleet in 1905 were UK built, much of the key Japanese Naval Staff were UK trained or RN-inpired, and there were a number of UK observers present at the battle of Tsushima.
Biggest jump in Scotland (+5.6% vs England +3.2%, Wales +3.1, NI +1.8%) and still lowest overall.
Vaccination levels between 14/06 and 20/06 were:
England 79.0% to 81.6% change on previous week +2.4 to +2.9% Wales 87.9% to 88.7% +1.3% to +0.9% Scotland 79.6% to 82.3% +2.8% to + 3.0% N Ireland 76.8% to 78.5% +1.6% to +1.9%
Which would suggest about 40% have acquired immunity in England but only about 15% in Scotland. Which helps explain why Scotland has been hit harder than England by Delta and why in London its only had a marginal effect despite the lower levels of vaccination.
Northern Ireland looks to have anti-bodies than vaccination and previous infection would suggest.
That's hugely encouraging - suggests we're probably comfortably over 90% now. Is there data on how many children have antibodies? My finger in the air estimate is about 20%.
I'm personally guessing 30-40%, but that's also wet finger in the air. (Based on the 16-24s with antibodies at the start of March, which was prior to most of them having any chance for a jab). Of course, some will have had antibody levels decay, but they will still have T-cell protection and can generate tailored antibodies quickly on exposure, so while they'd be infected, the viral load would be hopefully very low and far more likely to be asymptomatic or very mildly symptomatic, and their rate of passing it one would be much curtailed.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
That's why in my original post I changed "EU" for the more generic "Europe". Had I said 'FIRST in the EU....' some pedant would say 'we're not in the EU'.
If you're suggesting my post is invalid because it's using statistics selectively I'd suggest reading the small print on your mothballed Red Bus.
(or not so small print)
Your claim is a lie though, no ifs or buts.
New deaths in the UK are nothing like they are in the EU and haven't been for months. Thank goodness for them the EU are belatedly catching up with the UK in vaccinations and halting deaths as a result. Plus they've adopted our first dose first strategy which is working.
As for the Red Bus it has been honoured in full. The NHS has got the £350mn per week promised and then some!
'Yesterday' is the last day with complete figures. Click it at your convenience and then a brief apology addressed to Carter Ruck. Most statistics are selective as Dominic Cummings will tell you
Your "statistics" are a lie plain and simple. And a 7-day average for figures is used for good reason given the way different countries report different statistics on different days.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
That's why in my original post I changed "EU" for the more generic "Europe". Had I said 'FIRST in the EU....' some pedant would say 'we're not in the EU'.
If you're suggesting my post is invalid because it's using statistics selectively I'd suggest reading the small print on your mothballed Red Bus.
(or not so small print)
“I first intended to say something stupidly wrong, but luckily I realised my mistake and changed it to something else that is just as wrong. Now people are laughing at me. Hello I’m Roger. Yes. Tampons. I want to go home now please, I’m confused.”
Next time Roger takes the piss out of thick northerners....
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
It must be hard when the enemy doesn't conform to the stereotypes that you wish to ascribe to them.
Well, I don't regard my fellow Britons as enemies, even the gullible ones that thought Brexit worthwhile or anything more than pointless, or even the WW2 obsessives who see everything through the prism of "friends and enemies" lol!. As for my description, you shouldn't take offence so easily; it was a caricature that I thought @Leon would find amusing, or possibly irritating, depending on which persona he is today.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
Does the UK do *massively* more testing than *anyone* else?
I can't find national figures but Berlin (4.3% of population) has a capacity of 4.7 million antigen tests a week, and press reports are complaining that there has been a massive drop in tests carried out to just 700000 last week in Berlin - because people no longer need a current test to do things like eat inside a restaurant etc (because the incidence rate is so low). But back of the envelope calculation suggests that even this much reduced testing is much *more* testing than in the UK. But the myth of the UK doing massively more tests than anyone else refuses to die no matter how often debunked.
Myth?
Why don't you try getting some national per capita data and comparing them? Because the data is out there.
Or if you're struggling to find Germany in amongst the other countries its mixed in with then try this head to head comparison.
Who's spreading myths?
You, as I have explained many times.
How many antigen tests have been done in Germany? Can you answer that question?
A tiny fraction of the amount the UK is doing quite clearly given the data!
The UK is doing about 14x the tests per capita than Germany is.
Over a third of the UK's tests are antigen PCR tests.
So even if you exclude all British non-PCR test and count all German tests of any type at all, then the UK is still doing about 5x the tests per capita that Germany is.
You are just wrong,, show me a link (not world in data which is only counting PCR tests) with the total number of tests done in Germany.
Here is a news report claiming the week before last the average number of tests (not including PCR tests) per day done in Berlin was over 100000. Berlin is less than a twentieth of Germany's population. Given the article is complaining about test centres having to close in Berlin because of reduced demand, then 2 million antigen tests a day in Germany in recent weeks is probably an underestimate. So not only not a "tiny fraction", but I think actually more than in the UK
which shows a 7 day average of about a million tests a day in recent weeks
It may be similar numbers of tests overall per capita are happening, but my ballpark figure for Germany would only include the so-called Bürgertests, and not the twice-weekly tests that have also been happening in schools and kindergartens here (which are mostly on summer holiday now, though large numbers continue to go to the holiday Betreuung and so are still tested), nor the widespread workplace testing.
So I would still guess more testing here, but with no national figures for Germany and it seems like partial figures for the UK, it's impossible to be sure. But it's sure that the UK isn't doing 12 times or 5 times as many tests.
You can find some local numbers in local news. Eg locally just over a fifth of the population had a Bürgertest last week. Scaled up that would be well over 2 million a day nationally, BEFORE you start counting testing done in schools (which were open til Friday), workplaces, hospitals etc.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare
The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
Does the UK do *massively* more testing than *anyone* else?
I can't find national figures but Berlin (4.3% of population) has a capacity of 4.7 million antigen tests a week, and press reports are complaining that there has been a massive drop in tests carried out to just 700000 last week in Berlin - because people no longer need a current test to do things like eat inside a restaurant etc (because the incidence rate is so low). But back of the envelope calculation suggests that even this much reduced testing is much *more* testing than in the UK. But the myth of the UK doing massively more tests than anyone else refuses to die no matter how often debunked.
Myth?
Why don't you try getting some national per capita data and comparing them? Because the data is out there.
Or if you're struggling to find Germany in amongst the other countries its mixed in with then try this head to head comparison.
Who's spreading myths?
You, as I have explained many times.
How many antigen tests have been done in Germany? Can you answer that question?
A tiny fraction of the amount the UK is doing quite clearly given the data!
The UK is doing about 14x the tests per capita than Germany is.
Over a third of the UK's tests are antigen PCR tests.
So even if you exclude all British non-PCR test and count all German tests of any type at all, then the UK is still doing about 5x the tests per capita that Germany is.
You are just wrong,, show me a link (not world in data which is only counting PCR tests) with the total number of tests done in Germany.
Here is a news report claiming the week before last the average number of tests (not including PCR tests) per day done in Berlin was over 100000. Berlin is less than a twentieth of Germany's population. Given the article is complaining about test centres having to close in Berlin because of reduced demand, then 2 million antigen tests a day in Germany in recent weeks is probably an underestimate. So not only not a "tiny fraction", but I think actually more than in the UK
which shows a 7 day average of about a million tests a day in recent weeks
It may be similar numbers of tests overall per capita are happening, but my ballpark figure for Germany would only include the so-called Bürgertests, and not the twice-weekly tests that have also been happening in schools and kindergartens here (which are mostly on summer holiday now, though large numbers continue to go to the holiday Betreuung and so are still tested), nor the widespread workplace testing.
So I would still guess more testing here, but with no national figures for Germany and it seems like partial figures for the UK, it's impossible to be sure. But it's sure that the UK isn't doing 12 times or 5 times as many tests.
You can find some local numbers in local news. Eg locally just over a fifth of the population had a Bürgertest last week. Scaled up that would be well over 2 million a day nationally, BEFORE you start counting testing done in schools (which were open til Friday), workplaces, hospitals etc.
Aiui, the DoH thinks that only around 10% of LFTs are currently being registered based on the number they're sending out on a weekly basis. I've heard it suggested that the UK is doing something ridiculous like 8m tests per day at the moment.
Boris is reckless as we are opening up too fast, but also too slow because isolation rules will mean people lose their summer and business struggle for staff....if we just opened some windows for better ventilation and paid some of the 80% wagging off isolation, that would sort it.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
My issue with China, apart from the way it treats its own people, is that it advances the authoritarian, anti-democratic surveillance state as a model of development.
Ultimately, that’s a threat to our way of life, or perhaps our children’s way of life.
One of the best things Britain can do, in my opinion, is better uphold democracy, liberty and the rule of law in *this* country, thereby acting as an example to others.
We did this quite well for a hundred years or so.
Fun fact, I was taught by someone later outed as a Chinese spy at University.
Fat chance when we've got Sunak wanting a more "nuanced" relationship with China, "nuanced" meaning "we promise we won't ever criticise you".
The tables have turned since the 19th century. We now allow China to buy up and modernise our infrastructure, and are reliant on Chinese capital and investment.
My issue with China, apart from the way it treats its own people, is that it advances the authoritarian, anti-democratic surveillance state as a model of development.
Ultimately, that’s a threat to our way of life, or perhaps our children’s way of life.
One of the best things Britain can do, in my opinion, is better uphold democracy, liberty and the rule of law in *this* country, thereby acting as an example to others.
We did this quite well for a hundred years or so.
Fun fact, I was taught by someone later outed as a Chinese spy at University.
Fat chance when we've got Sunak wanting a more "nuanced" relationship with China, "nuanced" meaning "we promise we won't ever criticise you".
We do have to live with China somehow. We can’t wish it away. Therefore, I’m reserving judgment on Sunak’s comments.
I don’t even especially think it necessary for the govt to “criticise” China, but I do want it to promote our values, and protect our strategic industries and technologies.
There is a difference between living with a country and bending over and holding our ankles.
Making pacts with the devil is never a good idea. And yes I do believe China under the current regime is a devil. It is a threat to freedom and liberty and democracy. The more we depend on it, the more that will threaten our freedom, liberty and democracy.
Except that the move is now (albeit slight so far) away from dependence. The recent sharp spike in transport costs, and the massive delays in getting some types of goods out of China, have opened quite a few peoples eyes, irrespective of any human rights objections. Sunak and the government will be judged by their deeds rather than his words; I don't have any great confidence in them either, but we'll see.
I hope so.
Not content with persecuting Uighurs in China, it is now going after Uighurs who have managed to escape abroad.
China is IMO an evil regime and we should sup with them with a very long spoon indeed, if we have to sup with them at all.
I forget where I read it, but I found somewhere a suggestion ..... from someone who thought about these things ..... that today's Chinese leaders may describe themselves as Communists, but they are in fact in the long tradition of Emperors, and that they, perhaps subconsciously, believe that the Han are the superior group in humanity, and that everyone else should try to become Han, or to be made Han.
For their own good!
That's not saying that I disagree with Ms Cyclefree, that we should be very, very cautious in our dealing with the Chinese Government. I'm say that we ought to be very careful in our dealing with any Chinese Government, and that caution should take into account the fact that while the current Government may be Communist, it's still Chinese, and remembers the indignities heaped upon the country by 19th & early 20th Century Westerners.
And a somewhat belated Good Morning everyone!
Morning! Just reading a history of the siege of the German base in Tsingtao (as it was called then) by the Japanese in WW1. The Germans just rocked up in the 1890s and said 'we'll have our base here, thank you very much' - in the ensuing disputes, they paid serious attention only to the other Western (incl Russia) governments.
Which reminds me, the Japanese also were honorary Westerners. Which puts an interesting light, from the Chine3se point of view, on the current discussions in Japan over whether to deal with the Taiwan issue by allying with the USA.
Most people do forget - or never knew - that the Japanese were our allies in WW1. I have a fascinating account by a soldier of the machine gun corps crossing the Mediterranean from Marseille to Egypt in 1918 and their ship being protected by a couple of Japanese destroyers hunting for Austro-Hungarian submarines.
Why the Japanese changed sides is also fascinating. According to an Australian expert (at least, that was how he was introduced) at the River Kwai in Thailand post WWI the USA didn't want the British 'interfering' in North Pacific affairs.
Late 19C is an equally interesting period of history in the Pacific.
The USA did not have a serious navy until the very late Victorian period, and were actually outmatched by South American countries for a good time before that due to an arms race funded by guano. There was no need, and Congress kept having high ambitions then refusing the necessary budget.
And Japan got into bed with the UK for naval technology, as the RN was still the hegemonic power, and the US was predicted as their main Pacific rival. Good way to avoid a war with the USA at a time the USA had just knocked the Spanish over.
So a number of the Japanese ships that wiped out the Russian fleet in 1905 were UK built, much of the key Japanese Naval Staff were UK trained or RN-inpired, and there were a number of UK observers present at the battle of Tsushima.
I think that's all about right.
Oh yes, the cooperation extended into and beyond WW1 etc. Supply of post-Dreadnought ships and designs. Like those new-fangled aircraft carrier things. And, unofficially on the part of one or two folk who, er, didn't quite keep up with changing times, into WW2 ...
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Canada to be fair to Trudeau has also done relatively well, a lower death rate than the US, us and most of Europe and a vaccination rate now ahead of the US and most of Europe too and only slightly behind the UK
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare
The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
Is a Tuscany-going Remoaner any worse than a Mallorca-going global-travelling Leaver?
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
Such ignorance is shocking.
Radio Four was the Home Service.
Radio Two was the Light Programme.
Damn, damn, damn. I was just about to post that. Might as well point out although far too late that Radio 3 was the Third Programme.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Think they're getting their vaccine act together.
Japan’s superior performance on deaths might just be a function of their very low obesity rates. It is likely that is a factor around the world - see the horrors in fairly-obese Latin America
Incidentally, I’m sitting in a beach bar in Majorca watching Europe waddle past. All nations. It is clear lots of people have put on lots of weight. Brits among the worst, and we were already fat
I strongly suspect that a lot of people only have the app for checking in to venues, and long have had the contract tracing turned off. Once there is no requirement to check in (which I believe is the case after July 19th), I suspect the number having the app will probably decrease further.
Having said that, I hope England win, if only because it matters to so many people in this country.
Which country? That's the problem...
Johnson is making a mistake aligning himself so closely with England. He's PM of the UK and while his words might be transferable to other Home Nations, his gestures are not. He should therefore stick to words. https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1412701865872089095
Its very simple. Had Wales, or Scotland (stop sniggering) got through, and England knocked out, would we have had the same level of flag twattery? Bozza on a huge Saltaire on Downing Street? Bozza with a Wales shirt encouraging us to learn Land of my Fathers?
We all know the answer is no.
Nonsense. If Wales or Scotland had reached the semi-finals he would definitely have been photoed with their flag and tweeted congratulations.
And been roundly criticised by the Nationalists for doing it!
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
Such ignorance is shocking.
Radio Four was the Home Service.
Radio Two was the Light Programme.
Damn, damn, damn. I was just about to post that. Might as well point out although far too late that Radio 3 was the Third Programme.
I thought that was ITV? Although my mother always called it the third channel, so maybe not.
How is Britain's connectedness with the EU's Digital Covid Certificate coming along? Liechtenstein, Iceland, and Norway are already connected. San Marino and the Vatican are "technically ready to connect" and "pending".
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Canada to be fair to Trudeau has also done relatively well, a lower death rate than the US, us and most of Europe and a vaccination rate now ahead of the US and most of Europe too and only slightly behind the UK
Canada another country where social distancing is a way of life not just for Coronavirus.
Canada's population density is less than 1% of England's.
The distancing even in cities like Edmonton is nothing like anything you'd see anywhere in England.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Think they're getting their vaccine act together.
Japan’s superior performance on deaths might just be a function of their very low obesity rates. It is likely that is a factor around the world - see the horrors in fairly-obese Latin America
Incidentally, I’m sitting in a beach bar in Majorca watching Europe waddle past. All nations. It is clear lots of people have put on lots of weight. Brits among the worst, and we were already fat
God knows what the USA is like
In my long trip around the States a couple of years back I was surprised not to see more of the obese people for which it is renowned. But I concluded they weren’t likely to be out as much, and insofar as they did venture out probably frequented mostly places that I was unlikely to be visiting.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Think they're getting their vaccine act together.
Japan’s superior performance on deaths might just be a function of their very low obesity rates. It is likely that is a factor around the world - see the horrors in fairly-obese Latin America
Incidentally, I’m sitting in a beach bar in Majorca watching Europe waddle past. All nations. It is clear lots of people have put on lots of weight. Brits among the worst, and we were already fat
God knows what the USA is like
Things like losing weight, good diet, vitamin D, all seem to have really gone from government messaging. Being a big fatty with poor diet leading to things like diabetes and also general vitamin d deficieny are all bad things if you are struck down by covid.
Stammer did bring up a good point re the potential isolation of hundreds and thousands, if not millions of people at the same time as test and trace continues. It cropped up as an issue on Radio 4 just about simultaneously. Not sure that has been thought out. It will be chaos or it will be ignored. I didn't realise that was continuing until I heard Starmer and the radio.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare
The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.
Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
My issue with China, apart from the way it treats its own people, is that it advances the authoritarian, anti-democratic surveillance state as a model of development.
Ultimately, that’s a threat to our way of life, or perhaps our children’s way of life.
One of the best things Britain can do, in my opinion, is better uphold democracy, liberty and the rule of law in *this* country, thereby acting as an example to others.
We did this quite well for a hundred years or so.
Fun fact, I was taught by someone later outed as a Chinese spy at University.
Fat chance when we've got Sunak wanting a more "nuanced" relationship with China, "nuanced" meaning "we promise we won't ever criticise you".
The tables have turned since the 19th century. We now allow China to buy up and modernise our infrastructure, and are reliant on Chinese capital and investment.
My issue with China, apart from the way it treats its own people, is that it advances the authoritarian, anti-democratic surveillance state as a model of development.
Ultimately, that’s a threat to our way of life, or perhaps our children’s way of life.
One of the best things Britain can do, in my opinion, is better uphold democracy, liberty and the rule of law in *this* country, thereby acting as an example to others.
We did this quite well for a hundred years or so.
Fun fact, I was taught by someone later outed as a Chinese spy at University.
Fat chance when we've got Sunak wanting a more "nuanced" relationship with China, "nuanced" meaning "we promise we won't ever criticise you".
We do have to live with China somehow. We can’t wish it away. Therefore, I’m reserving judgment on Sunak’s comments.
I don’t even especially think it necessary for the govt to “criticise” China, but I do want it to promote our values, and protect our strategic industries and technologies.
There is a difference between living with a country and bending over and holding our ankles.
Making pacts with the devil is never a good idea. And yes I do believe China under the current regime is a devil. It is a threat to freedom and liberty and democracy. The more we depend on it, the more that will threaten our freedom, liberty and democracy.
Except that the move is now (albeit slight so far) away from dependence. The recent sharp spike in transport costs, and the massive delays in getting some types of goods out of China, have opened quite a few peoples eyes, irrespective of any human rights objections. Sunak and the government will be judged by their deeds rather than his words; I don't have any great confidence in them either, but we'll see.
I hope so.
Not content with persecuting Uighurs in China, it is now going after Uighurs who have managed to escape abroad.
China is IMO an evil regime and we should sup with them with a very long spoon indeed, if we have to sup with them at all.
I forget where I read it, but I found somewhere a suggestion ..... from someone who thought about these things ..... that today's Chinese leaders may describe themselves as Communists, but they are in fact in the long tradition of Emperors, and that they, perhaps subconsciously, believe that the Han are the superior group in humanity, and that everyone else should try to become Han, or to be made Han.
For their own good!
That's not saying that I disagree with Ms Cyclefree, that we should be very, very cautious in our dealing with the Chinese Government. I'm say that we ought to be very careful in our dealing with any Chinese Government, and that caution should take into account the fact that while the current Government may be Communist, it's still Chinese, and remembers the indignities heaped upon the country by 19th & early 20th Century Westerners.
And a somewhat belated Good Morning everyone!
Morning! Just reading a history of the siege of the German base in Tsingtao (as it was called then) by the Japanese in WW1. The Germans just rocked up in the 1890s and said 'we'll have our base here, thank you very much' - in the ensuing disputes, they paid serious attention only to the other Western (incl Russia) governments.
Which reminds me, the Japanese also were honorary Westerners. Which puts an interesting light, from the Chine3se point of view, on the current discussions in Japan over whether to deal with the Taiwan issue by allying with the USA.
Most people do forget - or never knew - that the Japanese were our allies in WW1. I have a fascinating account by a soldier of the machine gun corps crossing the Mediterranean from Marseille to Egypt in 1918 and their ship being protected by a couple of Japanese destroyers hunting for Austro-Hungarian submarines.
Why the Japanese changed sides is also fascinating. According to an Australian expert (at least, that was how he was introduced) at the River Kwai in Thailand post WWI the USA didn't want the British 'interfering' in North Pacific affairs.
Late 19C is an equally interesting period of history in the Pacific.
The USA did not have a serious navy until the very late Victorian period, and were actually outmatched by South American countries for a good time before that due to an arms race funded by guano. There was no need, and Congress kept having high ambitions then refusing the necessary budget.
And Japan got into bed with the UK for naval technology, as the RN was still the hegemonic power, and the US was predicted as their main Pacific rival. Good way to avoid a war with the USA at a time the USA had just knocked the Spanish over.
So a number of the Japanese ships that wiped out the Russian fleet in 1905 were UK built, much of the key Japanese Naval Staff were UK trained or RN-inpired, and there were a number of UK observers present at the battle of Tsushima.
I think that's all about right.
Oh yes, the cooperation extended into and beyond WW1 etc. Supply of post-Dreadnought ships and designs. Like those new-fangled aircraft carrier things. And, unofficially on the part of one or two folk who, er, didn't quite keep up with changing times, into WW2 ...
Not to mention the idea of oxygen-enriched torpedoes....
At Tsushima, the Japanese were impressed with Pakenham (one of the observers). While pacing the deck, he got spatted when a Japanese sailors was blown to bits next to him. He retired below, to return a short time later, in a fresh, gleaming white uniform. And resumed his pacing and note taking.
Among his comments - "When 12 inch guns are firing, shots from 10 inch guns pass unnoticed, while for all the respect they instil, 6 and 8 inch guns might as well be peashooters".
I strongly suspect that a lot of people only have the app for checking in to venues, and long have had the contract tracing turned off. Once there is no requirement to check in (which I believe is the case after July 19th), I suspect the number having the app will probably decrease further.
I know people who when asked to check put the phone on camera mode and take a picture of the QR Code rather than using the app to check in.
All the staff do is see you waving your phone in front of the QR Code, they don't check you've actually checked in.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Think they're getting their vaccine act together.
Japan’s superior performance on deaths might just be a function of their very low obesity rates. It is likely that is a factor around the world - see the horrors in fairly-obese Latin America
Incidentally, I’m sitting in a beach bar in Majorca watching Europe waddle past. All nations. It is clear lots of people have put on lots of weight. Brits among the worst, and we were already fat
God knows what the USA is like
In my long trip around the States a couple of years back I was surprised not to see more of the obese people for which it is renowned. But I concluded they weren’t likely to be out as much, and insofar as they did venture out probably frequented mostly places that I was unlikely to be visiting.
I spent a lot of time in the US and they are definitely there! And as with so much about the US, its the extremes. The fit and healthy are super fit and healthy, the same the other way.
It is also something i really notice when i go and visit my home town of Stoke, people are noticeably much fatter than the affluent part of the country I live in. You can't miss it, and again so often it isn't a bit of dad bod, it is really obese.
Just had a meeting where someone explained lockdowns using the paradox of thrift. It was a very interesting concept and it probably applies. He thinks certain countries will be liable to fall into semi-permanent restrictions because they will be unwilling to use their "savings" at any point in time thinking that there will always be some better moment to spend them and over time everyone loses from that.
New Zealand?
New Zealand has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the developed world now, not only lower than England, Wales and Scotland, NI and Ireland but lower than Germany, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Canada, Israel, Australia and Japan and even lower than Brazil.
Ardern does not look as good as she did a few months ago on Covid
Indeed. Fair comment.
NZ (and Aus) utterly fucked up vaccines.
Imagine if they were only a month behind the UK in vaccine rollout (a perfectly feasible figure).
They would have been the perfect zero covid poster child: open clubs, packed stadiums and full unlocking just around the corner.
Instead they've got themselves at the back of the queue and it will be months and months before they are vaccinated.
It is beyond bizarre. The only thing I can ascribe it to is complacency. But Jacinda doesn’t seem the type.
Wasn’t the problem that they basically put their money on AZ, but when a few studies came out suggesting it wasn’t as good as Pfizer (this was before all the blood clot stuff) she basically announced that “New Zealand must have the best, and because of our success in keeping Covid out we can afford to wait for it”. So they abandoned their planned AZ rollout and put in a belated order for Pfizer but were at the back of the queue...
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare
The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.
Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry
Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry
In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
Not surprised to be honest, people making their own calls on risk (as they have done throughout in lockdown observance etc, ignoring some of the more bizarre rules such as I can go for a walk with my father in law while my wife goes for a walk with her mum, but we can't al walk together, after first lockdown). People were up for this when unvaccinated as they saw the clear risk and didn't want to pass on Covid to particularly vulnerable family. Now those vulnerable people are double vaccinated, the rationale on a personal/near family basis is far far weaker.
I've still got the app. Recently went on holiday and stayed in a cottage which was owned by a caravan park. Welcome documents asked us to scan in at the venue. We didn't, as it was patently absurd - we had no close contact with anyone else on site, spoke only briefly to a few people outdoors. If someone on the site had Covid it would have pretty much zero relevance to us.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
Such ignorance is shocking.
Radio Four was the Home Service.
Radio Two was the Light Programme.
Damn, damn, damn. I was just about to post that. Might as well point out although far too late that Radio 3 was the Third Programme.
I thought that was ITV? Although my mother always called it the third channel, so maybe not.
So you are not really an oldie then?
Why would she call it the 3rd channel when there were only 2? Ian I'm starting to think you must be a real whipper snapper if your mum is so young she is post BBC2 when the 3rd channel came along.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
Such ignorance is shocking.
Radio Four was the Home Service.
Radio Two was the Light Programme.
As Captain Mainwaring would have said " I was wondering who would spot that first"
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Canada to be fair to Trudeau has also done relatively well, a lower death rate than the US, us and most of Europe and a vaccination rate now ahead of the US and most of Europe too and only slightly behind the UK
Canada another country where social distancing is a way of life not just for Coronavirus.
Canada's population density is less than 1% of England's.
The distancing even in cities like Edmonton is nothing like anything you'd see anywhere in England.
Yes but the majority of Canada's population lives in just 2 of its 10 provinces (and 3 territories), Ontario and Quebec.
Toronto alone has a population of 5 million which is 14% of the entire Canadian population, even London has only 12% of the UK population
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Think they're getting their vaccine act together.
Japan’s superior performance on deaths might just be a function of their very low obesity rates. It is likely that is a factor around the world - see the horrors in fairly-obese Latin America
Incidentally, I’m sitting in a beach bar in Majorca watching Europe waddle past. All nations. It is clear lots of people have put on lots of weight. Brits among the worst, and we were already fat
God knows what the USA is like
It's hard to imagine the French and Italians being fat. Both are very obviously slimmer than the average here. Has your trip to Majorca revealed some Gallic guts and Tuscan tummies?
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
Such ignorance is shocking.
Radio Four was the Home Service.
Radio Two was the Light Programme.
As Captain Mainwaring would have said " I was wondering who would spot that first"
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Think they're getting their vaccine act together.
Japan’s superior performance on deaths might just be a function of their very low obesity rates. It is likely that is a factor around the world - see the horrors in fairly-obese Latin America
Incidentally, I’m sitting in a beach bar in Majorca watching Europe waddle past. All nations. It is clear lots of people have put on lots of weight. Brits among the worst, and we were already fat
God knows what the USA is like
In my long trip around the States a couple of years back I was surprised not to see more of the obese people for which it is renowned. But I concluded they weren’t likely to be out as much, and insofar as they did venture out probably frequented mostly places that I was unlikely to be visiting.
A visit to a Wal Mart in Mississippi or a Dairy Queen in the less pricey bits of Chicago or Texas would set you right. But as you say, you didn’t go there
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Think they're getting their vaccine act together.
Japan’s superior performance on deaths might just be a function of their very low obesity rates. It is likely that is a factor around the world - see the horrors in fairly-obese Latin America
Incidentally, I’m sitting in a beach bar in Majorca watching Europe waddle past. All nations. It is clear lots of people have put on lots of weight. Brits among the worst, and we were already fat
God knows what the USA is like
In my long trip around the States a couple of years back I was surprised not to see more of the obese people for which it is renowned. But I concluded they weren’t likely to be out as much, and insofar as they did venture out probably frequented mostly places that I was unlikely to be visiting.
I spent a lot of time in the US and they are definitely there! And as with so much about the US, its the extremes. The fit and healthy are super fit and healthy, the same the other way.
It is also something i really notice when i go and visit my home town of Stoke, people are noticeably much fatter than the affluent part of the country I live in. You can't miss it, and again so often it isn't a bit of dad bod, it is really obese.
I remember I was on a popular four hour hike up Black Elk peak with the dog when the thought that the Americans I was passing didn’t seem to conform with the overweight stereotype. It only took a few seconds to realise that I’d have had better luck spotting them if I’d spent the afternoon down the mall.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare
The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.
Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
Hang on a minute. A BNP gorilla type Leaver is clearly a completely different stereotype to tweed blazer, cricket watching, Radio 4 listener Leaver. The only thing consistent in your comments is the familiar rabid hatred of Leavers from people overly attached to a supranational bureaucracy.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Canada to be fair to Trudeau has also done relatively well, a lower death rate than the US, us and most of Europe and a vaccination rate now ahead of the US and most of Europe too and only slightly behind the UK
Canada another country where social distancing is a way of life not just for Coronavirus.
Canada's population density is less than 1% of England's.
The distancing even in cities like Edmonton is nothing like anything you'd see anywhere in England.
Yes but the majority of Canada's population lives in just 2 of its 10 provinces (and 3 territories), Ontario and Quebec.
Toronto alone has a population of 5 million which is 14% of the entire Canadian population, even London has only 12% of the UK population
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Canada to be fair to Trudeau has also done relatively well, a lower death rate than the US, us and most of Europe and a vaccination rate now ahead of the US and most of Europe too and only slightly behind the UK
Canada another country where social distancing is a way of life not just for Coronavirus.
Canada's population density is less than 1% of England's.
The distancing even in cities like Edmonton is nothing like anything you'd see anywhere in England.
Yes but the majority of Canada's population lives in just 2 of its 10 provinces (and 3 territories), Ontario and Quebec.
Toronto alone has a population of 5 million which is 14% of the entire Canadian population, even London has only 12% of the UK population
That's relevant. But also relevant is that Canadians just don't get that close to one another. In my limited experience, conversation with Canadians tends to be shouted from several feet away. While Italians get slightly closer than is comfortable for a Brit.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Canada to be fair to Trudeau has also done relatively well, a lower death rate than the US, us and most of Europe and a vaccination rate now ahead of the US and most of Europe too and only slightly behind the UK
Canada another country where social distancing is a way of life not just for Coronavirus.
Canada's population density is less than 1% of England's.
The distancing even in cities like Edmonton is nothing like anything you'd see anywhere in England.
Yes but the majority of Canada's population lives in just 2 of its 10 provinces (and 3 territories), Ontario and Quebec.
Toronto alone has a population of 5 million which is 14% of the entire Canadian population, even London has only 12% of the UK population
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Canada to be fair to Trudeau has also done relatively well, a lower death rate than the US, us and most of Europe and a vaccination rate now ahead of the US and most of Europe too and only slightly behind the UK
Canada another country where social distancing is a way of life not just for Coronavirus.
Canada's population density is less than 1% of England's.
The distancing even in cities like Edmonton is nothing like anything you'd see anywhere in England.
Yes but the majority of Canada's population lives in just 2 of its 10 provinces (and 3 territories), Ontario and Quebec.
Toronto alone has a population of 5 million which is 14% of the entire Canadian population, even London has only 12% of the UK population
That's relevant. But also relevant is that Canadians just don't get that close to one another. In my limited experience, conversation with Canadians tends to be shouted from several feet away. While Italians get slightly closer than is comfortable for a Brit.
'Slightly' working quite hard in your final sentence.
How is Britain's connectedness with the EU's Digital Covid Certificate coming along? Liechtenstein, Iceland, and Norway are already connected. San Marino and the Vatican are "technically ready to connect" and "pending".
From what I've understood the UK (well England at least) is going to use the international IATA Travel Pass in the NHS App.
"Heading for a summer of chaos and confusion" is remarkably mild language from SKS. Is he still thinking he's in court? Judges prefer not to accept proposals that lead to chaos and confusion. Many tabloid readers just want to go down the pub and breathe all over each other at the bar. SKS is Neil Kinnock maybe - greatest achievement in domestic politics being the party's survival in some kind of shape.
There seems to be some kind of parallel between 2020 and 2021 even despite the difference with regard to vaccination.
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'. Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.
So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Think they're getting their vaccine act together.
Japan’s superior performance on deaths might just be a function of their very low obesity rates. It is likely that is a factor around the world - see the horrors in fairly-obese Latin America
Incidentally, I’m sitting in a beach bar in Majorca watching Europe waddle past. All nations. It is clear lots of people have put on lots of weight. Brits among the worst, and we were already fat
God knows what the USA is like
It's hard to imagine the French and Italians being fat. Both are very obviously slimmer than the average here. Has your trip to Majorca revealed some Gallic guts and Tuscan tummies?
By Netflix. Telling me there is a film I might like - Once upon a Time in Hollywood.
I think it is a rule that any film with "Hollywood" in its name, or which is for the film industry self-referential (eg. Mank) is just rubbish.
It's quite good fun - and knowing the horrific true story I enjoyed the "Hollywood ending"!
Hmmm maybe I will have to watch it. Perhaps I could pretend it is a box set of five 30min episodes and then I would binge watch all of them in one sitting to fool my brain I'm not sitting down for a 2hr 40mins film.
Just had a meeting where someone explained lockdowns using the paradox of thrift. It was a very interesting concept and it probably applies. He thinks certain countries will be liable to fall into semi-permanent restrictions because they will be unwilling to use their "savings" at any point in time thinking that there will always be some better moment to spend them and over time everyone loses from that.
New Zealand?
New Zealand has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the developed world now, not only lower than England, Wales and Scotland, NI and Ireland but lower than Germany, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Canada, Israel, Australia and Japan and even lower than Brazil.
Ardern does not look as good as she did a few months ago on Covid
Indeed. Fair comment.
NZ (and Aus) utterly fucked up vaccines.
Imagine if they were only a month behind the UK in vaccine rollout (a perfectly feasible figure).
They would have been the perfect zero covid poster child: open clubs, packed stadiums and full unlocking just around the corner.
Instead they've got themselves at the back of the queue and it will be months and months before they are vaccinated.
It is beyond bizarre. The only thing I can ascribe it to is complacency. But Jacinda doesn’t seem the type.
Wasn’t the problem that they basically put their money on AZ, but when a few studies came out suggesting it wasn’t as good as Pfizer (this was before all the blood clot stuff) she basically announced that “New Zealand must have the best, and because of our success in keeping Covid out we can afford to wait for it”. So they abandoned their planned AZ rollout and put in a belated order for Pfizer but were at the back of the queue...
I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!
1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases. 2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths. 3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases. 4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.
Roger, this is just total nonsense. 1. France and Russia have both had more cases 2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us. 3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else. 4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.
Why do you write this stuff?
I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
Such ignorance is shocking.
Radio Four was the Home Service.
Radio Two was the Light Programme.
Damn, damn, damn. I was just about to post that. Might as well point out although far too late that Radio 3 was the Third Programme.
I thought that was ITV? Although my mother always called it the third channel, so maybe not.
So you are not really an oldie then?
Why would she call it the 3rd channel when there were only 2? Ian I'm starting to think you must be a real whipper snapper if your mum is so young she is post BBC2 when the 3rd channel came along.
I just remembered on pre programmed TVs post BBC2 ITV was always the 3rd button. Sorry ignore me I'm having a conversation with myself.
Comments
DONG!
It is a disease that will still cause death and misery, but not on a scale that required that war footing.
It's only a suspicion, though, and it doesn't detract from the validity of the general point that he's been too much of a pussycat up to now. 100% agree with this and I'm glad it's changing. Gloves off, game on.
It’s always been a marathon and not a sprint.
https://www.chateautercey.com/
It was actually one of the best ways of looking at this I've come across in terms of human behavioural psychology.
If you're suggesting my post is invalid because it's using statistics selectively I'd suggest reading the small print on your mothballed Red Bus.
(or not so small print)
Certainly less obviously full of absolute bellends than in the Sven era.
I take your political angle with the appropriate pinch of salt - but I also take the 'no egos' with a pinch of salt. There are some colossal egos in there, just perhaps not quite the size of the previous generation.
I was talking to my wife about this last night:
- first, why do footballers - or indeed any famous person who doesn't need to - have a Twitter account? The downside is far, far greater than the upside. Her view - which I liked - was that it's all about the sort of person who becomes famous. A famous footballers (or in most cases famous anything) has a self-belief you could cut diamond with. It doesn't cross their minds for a minute that people wouldn't want to know what they think about everything, all the time.
(Actually, I always liked Paul Scholes' approach. Never gave interviews. Doesn't, as far as I can see, have a twitter account, or at least not one which looks either a) used and b) genuine. He may, who knows, be a contemptible nobend in private. But at least he didn't feel the need to open up to the world remove any doubt.)
- second, footballers whose instinct on scoring is to find the nearest television camera and preen into it are contemptible, and, I suspect, not exactly human. Given a stadium-full of people cheering for something you've achieved, seeking out the virtual ones would not be an instinctive choice.
On the broader point - I'm quite comfortable with displays of patriotism, and indeed I'm pretty patriotic myself, but what I feel about this England team is - nothing. Doesn't move me at all. Nor, as it happens, does rugby or cricket, any more. Whereas covid has left some people without tastes of smell or taste, the last year has left without an ability to connect emotionally with sport. I feel a bit sad about this. I used to love international tournaments - at previous tournaments I would have been delighted to see England winning. Now, nothing. A nod that Harry Kane has indeed extended his large triangular head and nodded the ball into the net.
I'm happy for my friends and family, who still do set great store by seeing England win. And indeed I'm happy that complete strangers are happy. But the match itself leaves me unmoved. I'm interested, but not happy or sad at the result, apart from a numb sadness that it no longer makes me happy.
I'm actually going to an England T20 game in two weeks' time. I'm hoping this will rekindle my enthusiasm, but I'm fearful that it won't.
Not entirely sure how it would even work anyway as people talk about getting phone call check ups but I certainly don't have a home phone in action anymore.
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1412749068909035520?s=20
New deaths in the UK are nothing like they are in the EU and haven't been for months. Thank goodness for them the EU are belatedly catching up with the UK in vaccinations and halting deaths as a result. Plus they've adopted our first dose first strategy which is working.
As for the Red Bus it has been honoured in full. The NHS has got the £350mn per week promised and then some!
Wtf?
Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population
Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.
Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come
Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model
South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)
In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
Unless you're genuinely living in fear and looking for a warning, or quite keen on some paid leave, I don't see how track and trace impacts people.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/15518671/brits-deleting-nhs-covid-app-millions-pinged/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=sunpoliticstwitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625660365
As for this England team, I like them a lot. Footballwise and their spirit/aura.
So much better than the days of the WAGS, and 'what the fuck's wrong with Rooney?' and 'Gerrard and Lampard can't play together' and John Terry giving it the big I am and parking his monstrosity in disabled spots.
(For some reason I can't understand, flu viruses appear to start in Asia each year and work their way west. Thus, we can see what they're like in the east before they get to us.)
Are you saying he can't win power then? Because doing it like that seems a bit of a tall order. Perhaps he just has to wait, while building up an attack capability. When the enemy thinks you are near, be far away. When the enemy thinks you are far away, be near.
Hong Kong is in a similar position. But with the government pushing the near worthless Chinese vaccines.
Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
I'll start. Most COVID deaths per gallons of tea drunk daily per head of population. In European countries with first letters in the second half of the alphabet.
Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
Have a nice day.
The USA did not have a serious navy until the very late Victorian period, and were actually outmatched by South American countries for a good time before that due to an arms race funded by guano. There was no need, and Congress kept having high ambitions then refusing the necessary budget.
And Japan got into bed with the UK for naval technology, as the RN was still the hegemonic power, and the US was predicted as their main Pacific rival. Good way to avoid a war with the USA at a time the USA had just knocked the Spanish over.
So a number of the Japanese ships that wiped out the Russian fleet in 1905 were UK built, much of the key Japanese Naval Staff were UK trained or RN-inpired, and there were a number of UK observers present at the battle of Tsushima.
I think that's all about right.
Didn't we have an animation of it the other day?
Your "statistics" are a lie plain and simple. And a 7-day average for figures is used for good reason given the way different countries report different statistics on different days.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing
which shows a 7 day average of about a million tests a day in recent weeks
It may be similar numbers of tests overall per capita are happening, but my ballpark figure for Germany would only include the so-called Bürgertests, and not the twice-weekly tests that have also been happening in schools and kindergartens here (which are mostly on summer holiday now, though large numbers continue to go to the holiday Betreuung and so are still tested), nor the widespread workplace testing.
So I would still guess more testing here, but with no national figures for Germany and it seems like partial figures for the UK, it's impossible to be sure.
But it's sure that the UK isn't doing 12 times or 5 times as many tests.
You can find some local numbers in local news. Eg locally just over a fifth of the population had a Bürgertest last week. Scaled up that would be well over 2 million a day nationally, BEFORE you start counting testing done in schools (which were open til Friday), workplaces, hospitals etc.
The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
Boris is reckless as we are opening up too fast, but also too slow because isolation rules will mean people lose their summer and business struggle for staff....if we just opened some windows for better ventilation and paid some of the 80% wagging off isolation, that would sort it.
Radio Four was the Home Service.
Radio Two was the Light Programme.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Forbes-Sempill,_19th_Lord_Sempill
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Rutland
Incidentally, I’m sitting in a beach bar in Majorca watching Europe waddle past. All nations. It is clear lots of people have put on lots of weight. Brits among the worst, and we were already fat
God knows what the USA is like
By Netflix. Telling me there is a film I might like - Once upon a Time in Hollywood.
I think it is a rule that any film with "Hollywood" in its name, or which is for the film industry self-referential (eg. Mank) is just rubbish.
Canada's population density is less than 1% of England's.
The distancing even in cities like Edmonton is nothing like anything you'd see anywhere in England.
Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
At Tsushima, the Japanese were impressed with Pakenham (one of the observers). While pacing the deck, he got spatted when a Japanese sailors was blown to bits next to him. He retired below, to return a short time later, in a fresh, gleaming white uniform. And resumed his pacing and note taking.
Among his comments - "When 12 inch guns are firing, shots from 10 inch guns pass unnoticed, while for all the respect they instil, 6 and 8 inch guns might as well be peashooters".
All the staff do is see you waving your phone in front of the QR Code, they don't check you've actually checked in.
It is also something i really notice when i go and visit my home town of Stoke, people are noticeably much fatter than the affluent part of the country I live in. You can't miss it, and again so often it isn't a bit of dad bod, it is really obese.
Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry
In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
I've still got the app. Recently went on holiday and stayed in a cottage which was owned by a caravan park. Welcome documents asked us to scan in at the venue. We didn't, as it was patently absurd - we had no close contact with anyone else on site, spoke only briefly to a few people outdoors. If someone on the site had Covid it would have pretty much zero relevance to us.
Why would she call it the 3rd channel when there were only 2? Ian I'm starting to think you must be a real whipper snapper if your mum is so young she is post BBC2 when the 3rd channel came along.
Toronto alone has a population of 5 million which is 14% of the entire Canadian population, even London has only 12% of the UK population
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Overweight_and_obesity_-_BMI_statistics
Why would anyone in their right mind retain the app on their phone?
There seems to be some kind of parallel between 2020 and 2021 even despite the difference with regard to vaccination.
Those are quite amazing stats, in a bad way. I had no idea so much of Europe was so podgy
Countries I assume are all bicycling and healthy are not. Eg the Netherlands, more than half of men are overweight
Striking
Thanks for the reply.