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Welcome to the next stage of COVID – The Government versus the Scientists – politicalbetting.com

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  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    LOL - Chippy or what
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,858
    edited July 2021
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    Such ignorance is shocking.

    Radio Four was the Home Service.

    Radio Two was the Light Programme.
    Damn, damn, damn. I was just about to post that. Might as well point out although far too late that Radio 3 was the Third Programme.
    I thought that was ITV? Although my mother always called it the third channel, so maybe not.
    So you are not really an oldie then?

    Why would she call it the 3rd channel when there were only 2? Ian I'm starting to think you must be a real whipper snapper if your mum is so young she is post BBC2 when the 3rd channel came along.
    According to my files Ian is in the 55/58 space.
    As I said - whipper snapper.

    What do you mean 'my files'?????? What am I in your files - full details please?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,596
    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Despite what the govt (and indeed the ‘system’) is saying, it feels hard to be confident the nhs can deal with what is already being thrown at it, never mind what’s likely to come over the next few weeks. Alarm bells are going off all over the place.
    https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1412766076073611267

    https://twitter.com/shaunlintern/status/1412742990456659969

    One wonders where that hospital in Scotland that's already at capacity will be in a few weeks time, with numbers (at least) doubling every fortnight.

    But it will be all be fine, because vaccines.
    I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but there are 2,140 people, UK-wide, in hospital with covid currently. Sure there are local hotspots.

    But there are, on average, less than two covid patients per hospital in the UK.

    Less than two.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    You're not the only literary critic with that verdict. I have happy memories of seeing this next to Rosslyn Chapel (one of the key venues in the book, I understand):

    https://www.alamy.com/horse-manure-for-sale-in-farm-beside-rosslyn-chapel-using-da-vinci-image6906998.html
    People should give Dan Brown a break.

    Fifteen or so years ago, I stayed at a North Yorkshire B&B. I hadn't read the Da Vinci Code, and was very sniffy about it (*). They had a late-teenage daughter who, at breakfast, had her nose deep in the book. As we chatted, she said it was the first book she had ever read, she was gripped, and she wanted to read more books.

    Yes, it is crummy. Yes, it is poorly written. But if it acts as a gateway to literature for people put off from reading at school, then it's brilliant.

    (*) In fact, the first time I ever read a Dan Brown book was when I picked up a copy at a remote bothy; I read it, and left it at another bothy a few days later.
    In fairness that is also true.

    I can't bear Harry Potter - there is something that creeps me out utterly about it (perhaps more to do with me tbf). I bought the first book by mistake, so to speak (trying out a new local writer back in 1995 or so), and dumped it on a friend. Who was absolutely delighted with me for giving her little girl so much enjoyment. More generally I've been told by other friends it has helped encourage childrten to read.
    Supply teaching at a particularly rough Manchester comp c, 2001.
    Year 7 English.30 kids reading Harry Potter, as assigned. No talking, or pissing about winding up the supply. There was an audible groan when the bell went too.
    I could not believe it. Until I had my own kids.
    Our kids are very meh about Harry Potter. I've never read them so don't care either way.
    They caught the zeitgeist I think. It became uber cool to have read them more and earlier than your mates.
    Which is rather remarkable for books this century.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,817
    Speaking of books that get scorned for being too low brow (but popular) I think of Alan Partridge's favourite book - Bravo Two Zero by Andy McNab.
    Alan really has a way of knowing what really most people want in popular culture as famously when asked (after offering he likes the Beatles) what his favorite Beatles Album was he said "The best of"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    The best paid writers are those who can produce good plots. It’s as simple as that. Pure capitalism

    There are ‘writers’ who can ONLY plot, their prose is so bad (beyond Dan brown mediocrity) they are not allowed anywhere near a printer

    However they go on to be script doctors or show runners or producers in Hollywood and they make vast sums of cash
    Goddard. Talk about pure plot and don't bother with much else. Page 1, the protagonist - always a blank page man of middle age with no ties - bumps into someone or spots something while he's having a pint somewhere sleepy in the Home Counties. By page 4 he's swept up in a breathless adventure and is racing around the old bazaar in Cairo. Then onto Venice and a Greek Island and Amsterdam and you name it. Middle section takes us back to medieval times and events which took place then, events which are key to unraveling the mystery this bloke has stumbled into. Ends with him having discovered the incredible truth, yet strangely unmoved. As is the reader. Great stuff. Does exactly what it says on the tin.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,748
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.
    pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    The Da Vinci code got millions of people reading and learning about history, geography and art more than they would have done without reading it. Isn't that a good thing ?
    The Enid Blyton defence. And, no, I highly doubt it makes any long term difference to anything other than the number of timewasting wankers in the Louvre.
    “Time-wasting wankers”??

    So, you go to the Louvre to expand your elevated mind in a noble pursuit of enlightenment, people who are a bit poorer than you, or less well-educated, they go to the Louvre because they are “time-wasting wankers”. Right?

    That’s quite a classic of the genre. Worthy of the great A C Grayling
    No, you can tell them because they go into the Louvre, queue up to take selfies with one small, dingy and overrated oil painting, and fuck off again. Anyone who looks at anything else while they are there is exempt from the criticism.
    I doubt all these people are Dan brown fans. You’ve just described half the Asian tourists in Paris (pre covid)

    Again, this is snobbery from you. You’re a wealthy, educated west European. You inherited this great culture. You’ve probably been to Paris a dozen times and you adore the tapestries in the Cluny museum, and you know where to go for Breton huitres, afterwards

    If you’re Chinese and it’s your first and maybe only trip to Europe and you’ve got 30 minutes in the Louvre, what do you see? Obviously it’s got to be La Gioconda. And you take a selfie to prove it

    I find it a little sad, at what they are missing, but I don’t sneer at them for being poor

    Here endeth the lesson
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    Why are A&Es all over country being swamped?

    Genuine question.

    I suspect this is lack of face to face with GPs, but I am happy to be corrected by others e.g. @Foxy
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,931


    I've read the Da Vinci Code (OK, yes, it is bad) but couldn't get through much in the way of Thomas Hardy, despite encouragement from the spouse. Does that make me a bad person?

    I'm intrigued as to which bothy now. I don't have it as a book for Bob Scott's or the Tarf Hotel. Definitely Sourlies in the rain or perhaps even Kervaig.

    Goodness, that's a question! I think it was on the TGO Challenge back in 2005. I love Kearvaig, and have walked past (but never stayed in) Sourlies. That was a bit of a bugger of a walk along the southern coast of Lich Nevis from Tarbet Bothy. That afternoon, took the easy route over the pass from Sourlies to Inverie.

    Happy times.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,194



    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'.
    Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.

    So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
    Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”

    Wtf?

    Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population

    Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.

    Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come

    Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model

    South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)

    In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
    Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.

    Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
    Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population

    Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
    Canada to be fair to Trudeau has also done relatively well, a lower death rate than the US, us and most of Europe and a vaccination rate now ahead of the US and most of Europe too and only slightly behind the UK
    Canada another country where social distancing is a way of life not just for Coronavirus.

    Canada's population density is less than 1% of England's.

    The distancing even in cities like Edmonton is nothing like anything you'd see anywhere in England.
    Yes but the majority of Canada's population lives in just 2 of its 10 provinces (and 3 territories), Ontario and Quebec.

    Toronto alone has a population of 5 million which is 14% of the entire Canadian population, even London has only 12% of the UK population
    That's relevant. But also relevant is that Canadians just don't get that close to one another. In my limited experience, conversation with Canadians tends to be shouted from several feet away. While Italians get slightly closer than is comfortable for a Brit.
    Even if you say Canada has the same population density advantage New Zealand does and a natural social distancing, there is no denying that Trudeau has vaccinated more than Ardern.

    69% of Canadians have now had 1 dose and 38% have had both doses, compared to just 16% of New Zealanders who have had 1 dose and a mere 10% who have had both doses
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html

    My son and daughter in law in Vancouver have their second doses tomorrow

    That's pretty good going. Germany seems to be showing signs of vaccine hesitancy with numbers vaccinated daily falling the last couple of weeks, despite vaccine deliveries being up a bit. Either that or it's doctors going on their summer holidays (my GP's practice is closed for 2 weeks so no vaccinations happening there...).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,362
    Floater said:

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    LOL - Chippy or what
    Latest set of grievances from SNP Pravda

    'The news is the latest in a growing line of grievances put forward by Scottish football fans about the England-centric approach the UK has taken to the Euros. As The National revealed last week, members of the royal family have attended more England football games in the past two weeks than they have matches played by Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland combined in the past two decades.

    In fact, the royal family has not attended a football match played by a home nation other than England this century. However, they have attended England youth games and England qualifiers for major tournaments.

    The BBC has also come under fire for its “commentators’ endless mentioning of the glories of ’66 and Gazza’s goal”.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,903
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    You're not the only literary critic with that verdict. I have happy memories of seeing this next to Rosslyn Chapel (one of the key venues in the book, I understand):

    https://www.alamy.com/horse-manure-for-sale-in-farm-beside-rosslyn-chapel-using-da-vinci-image6906998.html
    People should give Dan Brown a break.

    Fifteen or so years ago, I stayed at a North Yorkshire B&B. I hadn't read the Da Vinci Code, and was very sniffy about it (*). They had a late-teenage daughter who, at breakfast, had her nose deep in the book. As we chatted, she said it was the first book she had ever read, she was gripped, and she wanted to read more books.

    Yes, it is crummy. Yes, it is poorly written. But if it acts as a gateway to literature for people put off from reading at school, then it's brilliant.

    (*) In fact, the first time I ever read a Dan Brown book was when I picked up a copy at a remote bothy; I read it, and left it at another bothy a few days later.
    In fairness that is also true.

    I can't bear Harry Potter - there is something that creeps me out utterly about it (perhaps more to do with me tbf). I bought the first book by mistake, so to speak (trying out a new local writer back in 1995 or so), and dumped it on a friend. Who was absolutely delighted with me for giving her little girl so much enjoyment. More generally I've been told by other friends it has helped encourage childrten to read.
    I can't bear Harry Potter either. But again, that's just me.
    I read the first Harry Potter book - I think there might have been a girl I was trying to impress - immediately after I read a book by Will Self. It was like arriving in a proper pub with decent beer and somewhere to sit and someone to talk to after spending two hours in a bar with a DJ and people trying to look good.
    Neither writer could write enjoyably. But JK Rowling didn't need to because that wasn't the point: the point was to spin a story. And I was, frankly, in awe of how well crafted the story was, and the more I hear of how the rest of the series developed the more this is so. And the story (the first book, at least) ended with some narrative finality which made you feel you'd got to the end of a journey and it had been worth the trip. Whereas Will Self was writing to make himself feel clever. And his plot was written to make himself feel clever. And neither the writing nor the plot were particularly satisfying. It wasn't clear what you were meant to think or feel after you've finished it, apart from "I have just read a book by Will Self."
    I do think in real life (or on telly at least) Will Self can be quite drily amusing, if you can put up with the haughty North-London-ness.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,903

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    The Da Vinci code got millions of people reading and learning about history, geography and art more than they would have done without reading it. Isn't that a good thing ?
    I think that's another good point: people also like to feel they've learned something from a book. Many people do, at least. That's why historical fiction does so well.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,017
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    You're not the only literary critic with that verdict. I have happy memories of seeing this next to Rosslyn Chapel (one of the key venues in the book, I understand):

    https://www.alamy.com/horse-manure-for-sale-in-farm-beside-rosslyn-chapel-using-da-vinci-image6906998.html
    People should give Dan Brown a break.

    Fifteen or so years ago, I stayed at a North Yorkshire B&B. I hadn't read the Da Vinci Code, and was very sniffy about it (*). They had a late-teenage daughter who, at breakfast, had her nose deep in the book. As we chatted, she said it was the first book she had ever read, she was gripped, and she wanted to read more books.

    Yes, it is crummy. Yes, it is poorly written. But if it acts as a gateway to literature for people put off from reading at school, then it's brilliant.

    (*) In fact, the first time I ever read a Dan Brown book was when I picked up a copy at a remote bothy; I read it, and left it at another bothy a few days later.
    In fairness that is also true.

    I can't bear Harry Potter - there is something that creeps me out utterly about it (perhaps more to do with me tbf). I bought the first book by mistake, so to speak (trying out a new local writer back in 1995 or so), and dumped it on a friend. Who was absolutely delighted with me for giving her little girl so much enjoyment. More generally I've been told by other friends it has helped encourage childrten to read.
    It's much better than Blyton or Brown. I read it to my sons as it came out, but disjointedly (because other people were reading it to them) so as with the film Dr Zhivago I've probably seen the whole thing, but never in sequence.

    I am astonished at its success, I thought the market for drivel about fantasy boarding school life was dead as a dodo by the time orwell wrote about it.
    On a point of PB pedantry - the Jennings books by Anthony Buckeridge had quite a vogue in the 1950s and 1960s IIRC. Which, on checking, extended to the earlu 1990s, somewjat to my surprise (but I had grown up by then ...).

    But I don't think they made boarding school chic amongst da yoof.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,407

    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Despite what the govt (and indeed the ‘system’) is saying, it feels hard to be confident the nhs can deal with what is already being thrown at it, never mind what’s likely to come over the next few weeks. Alarm bells are going off all over the place.
    https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1412766076073611267

    https://twitter.com/shaunlintern/status/1412742990456659969

    One wonders where that hospital in Scotland that's already at capacity will be in a few weeks time, with numbers (at least) doubling every fortnight.

    But it will be all be fine, because vaccines.
    I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but there are 2,140 people, UK-wide, in hospital with covid currently. Sure there are local hotspots.

    But there are, on average, less than two covid patients per hospital in the UK.

    Less than two.
    Yes. but in four week's time it will be 100,000, won't it?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,012
    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    You're not the only literary critic with that verdict. I have happy memories of seeing this next to Rosslyn Chapel (one of the key venues in the book, I understand):

    https://www.alamy.com/horse-manure-for-sale-in-farm-beside-rosslyn-chapel-using-da-vinci-image6906998.html
    People should give Dan Brown a break.

    Fifteen or so years ago, I stayed at a North Yorkshire B&B. I hadn't read the Da Vinci Code, and was very sniffy about it (*). They had a late-teenage daughter who, at breakfast, had her nose deep in the book. As we chatted, she said it was the first book she had ever read, she was gripped, and she wanted to read more books.

    Yes, it is crummy. Yes, it is poorly written. But if it acts as a gateway to literature for people put off from reading at school, then it's brilliant.

    (*) In fact, the first time I ever read a Dan Brown book was when I picked up a copy at a remote bothy; I read it, and left it at another bothy a few days later.
    In fairness that is also true.

    I can't bear Harry Potter - there is something that creeps me out utterly about it (perhaps more to do with me tbf). I bought the first book by mistake, so to speak (trying out a new local writer back in 1995 or so), and dumped it on a friend. Who was absolutely delighted with me for giving her little girl so much enjoyment. More generally I've been told by other friends it has helped encourage childrten to read.
    I can't bear Harry Potter either. But again, that's just me.
    I read the first Harry Potter book - I think there might have been a girl I was trying to impress - immediately after I read a book by Will Self. It was like arriving in a proper pub with decent beer and somewhere to sit and someone to talk to after spending two hours in a bar with a DJ and people trying to look good.
    Neither writer could write enjoyably. But JK Rowling didn't need to because that wasn't the point: the point was to spin a story. And I was, frankly, in awe of how well crafted the story was, and the more I hear of how the rest of the series developed the more this is so. And the story (the first book, at least) ended with some narrative finality which made you feel you'd got to the end of a journey and it had been worth the trip. Whereas Will Self was writing to make himself feel clever. And his plot was written to make himself feel clever. And neither the writing nor the plot were particularly satisfying. It wasn't clear what you were meant to think or feel after you've finished it, apart from "I have just read a book by Will Self."
    I do think in real life (or on telly at least) Will Self can be quite drily amusing, if you can put up with the haughty North-London-ness.
    You can't bear Harry Potter because you are a grown-up.

    They are for children, where the dreadful writing is fine because, like someone said of Dan Brown, they are a gateway. Although there are plenty of "children's books" which are well written. Or rather, books that should be read while still a child (eg Catcher, Mice & Men, CS Lewis, etc).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,504
    Interesting - it looks as though inadvertent intravenous administration might indeed have something to do with the AZN blood clots.

    Thrombocytopenia and splenic platelet directed immune responses after intravenous ChAdOx1 nCov-19 administration
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.29.450356v1
    ...Recently a rare and novel complication of SARS-CoV-2 targeted adenovirus vaccines has emerged: thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS). TTS is characterized by low platelet counts, clot formation at unusual anatomic sites and platelet-activating PF4-polyanion antibodies reminiscent of heparin-induced thrombocytopenia. Here, we employ in vitro and in vivo* models to characterize the possible mechanisms of this platelet-targeted autoimmunity. We show that intravenous but not intramuscular injection of ChAdOx1 nCov-19 triggers platelet-adenovirus aggregate formation and platelet activation. After intravenous injection, these aggregates are phagocytosed by macrophages in the spleen and platelet remnants are found in the marginal zone and follicles. This is followed by a pronounced B-cell response with the emergence of circulating antibodies binding to platelets. Our work contributes to the understanding of TTS and highlights accidental intravenous injection as potential mechanism for post-vaccination TTS. Hence, safe intramuscular injection, with aspiration prior to injection, could be a potential preventive measure when administering adenovirus-based vaccines...

    *mice
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    Krishnan Guru-Murthy
    @krishgm
    ·
    2h
    Repeatedly now, asked by politicians and journalists, the government has refused to reveal what it has been warned about the number of deaths and hospitalisations to expect after opening up fully on July 19th. You have to ask yourself why, because they won't answer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited July 2021

    Krishnan Guru-Murthy
    @krishgm
    ·
    2h
    Repeatedly now, asked by politicians and journalists, the government has refused to reveal what it has been warned about the number of deaths and hospitalisations to expect after opening up fully on July 19th. You have to ask yourself why, because they won't answer.

    Erhhhh....because that info is just about to be released? I presume they are putting the finishing touches to the academic papers, but the government have been given the general take home messages.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-august-covid-virus-fall-exclusive-b944552.html
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,869

    Large swathes of our adult population is functionally illiterate and/or innumerate.

    1 in 5 adults struggle to read and write, missing out on the wonders of literature. Shakespeare, Dickens, Austen, Dahl, Eliot, Bronte, Knox go unknown to them.

    Anything that can get them reading is brilliant.

    (BTW, I still think the levels of innumeracy and illiteracy in this country are a national shame, and on that is not talked about enough.)

    Not a problem, as all the classics are getting cancelled anyway....

    Top school will stop teaching To Kill A Mockingbird and Of Mice and Men in a bid to 'decolonise' the curriculum

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9757805/Top-school-stop-teaching-Kill-Mockingbird-Mice-Men.html
    Is that to stop us being colonised by America?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,407

    I can't bear Harry Potter either. But again, that's just me.
    I read the first Harry Potter book - I think there might have been a girl I was trying to impress - immediately after I read a book by Will Self. It was like arriving in a proper pub with decent beer and somewhere to sit and someone to talk to after spending two hours in a bar with a DJ and people trying to look good.
    Neither writer could write enjoyably. But JK Rowling didn't need to because that wasn't the point: the point was to spin a story. And I was, frankly, in awe of how well crafted the story was, and the more I hear of how the rest of the series developed the more this is so. And the story (the first book, at least) ended with some narrative finality which made you feel you'd got to the end of a journey and it had been worth the trip. Whereas Will Self was writing to make himself feel clever. And his plot was written to make himself feel clever. And neither the writing nor the plot were particularly satisfying. It wasn't clear what you were meant to think or feel after you've finished it, apart from "I have just read a book by Will Self."
    I do think in real life (or on telly at least) Will Self can be quite drily amusing, if you can put up with the haughty North-London-ness.

    I think the first three Harry Potter books are excellent childrens' literature. What sets it apart from other boarding-school stories is that world she created is so dystopian (more than she realised, perhaps).

    The last four were readable, but suffered from bloat, the occupational hazard of fantasy writing.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,012
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting - it looks as though inadvertent intravenous administration might indeed have something to do with the AZN blood clots.

    Thrombocytopenia and splenic platelet directed immune responses after intravenous ChAdOx1 nCov-19 administration
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.29.450356v1
    ...Recently a rare and novel complication of SARS-CoV-2 targeted adenovirus vaccines has emerged: thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS). TTS is characterized by low platelet counts, clot formation at unusual anatomic sites and platelet-activating PF4-polyanion antibodies reminiscent of heparin-induced thrombocytopenia. Here, we employ in vitro and in vivo* models to characterize the possible mechanisms of this platelet-targeted autoimmunity. We show that intravenous but not intramuscular injection of ChAdOx1 nCov-19 triggers platelet-adenovirus aggregate formation and platelet activation. After intravenous injection, these aggregates are phagocytosed by macrophages in the spleen and platelet remnants are found in the marginal zone and follicles. This is followed by a pronounced B-cell response with the emergence of circulating antibodies binding to platelets. Our work contributes to the understanding of TTS and highlights accidental intravenous injection as potential mechanism for post-vaccination TTS. Hence, safe intramuscular injection, with aspiration prior to injection, could be a potential preventive measure when administering adenovirus-based vaccines...

    *mice

    Without wanting to push it because it is of course his to determine and his alone, @DavidL decided not to Yellow Book his episode. It was a pre-existing condition and his second dose.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,817
    edited July 2021

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    Supermarket tannoys have gone downhill in recent years - now full of cheap irritating songs (even if they annoy a couple of prickly people from Glasgow in this case) wheras once they fascinating to hear which underling employee needed to report to the managers office for a good telling off (or maybe something else if Mike Hancock was in charge). Then you would see some poor downtrodden worker scuttle off embarrassed past the aisles of beans and whisper to them "good luck mate "
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,031
    The great @JoeMurphyLondon reports that Boris Johnson is relying on data which predicts herd immunity will soon be reached, pushing cases back down - and that DHSC has rebranded it 'hybrid immunity'. https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1412763582941564932
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    Thread on FR situation:

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1412707503746469891


    John Lichfield
    @john_lichfield
    Weekly French Covid thread
    Any hope of France containing the Delta variant can be abandoned. Delta’s share of new cases has doubled again in the last week to 40%. Case numbers and the incidence rate are climbing once more. The figures remain small but that won’t last.
    1/10
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,903
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    You're not the only literary critic with that verdict. I have happy memories of seeing this next to Rosslyn Chapel (one of the key venues in the book, I understand):

    https://www.alamy.com/horse-manure-for-sale-in-farm-beside-rosslyn-chapel-using-da-vinci-image6906998.html
    People should give Dan Brown a break.

    Fifteen or so years ago, I stayed at a North Yorkshire B&B. I hadn't read the Da Vinci Code, and was very sniffy about it (*). They had a late-teenage daughter who, at breakfast, had her nose deep in the book. As we chatted, she said it was the first book she had ever read, she was gripped, and she wanted to read more books.

    Yes, it is crummy. Yes, it is poorly written. But if it acts as a gateway to literature for people put off from reading at school, then it's brilliant.

    (*) In fact, the first time I ever read a Dan Brown book was when I picked up a copy at a remote bothy; I read it, and left it at another bothy a few days later.
    In fairness that is also true.

    I can't bear Harry Potter - there is something that creeps me out utterly about it (perhaps more to do with me tbf). I bought the first book by mistake, so to speak (trying out a new local writer back in 1995 or so), and dumped it on a friend. Who was absolutely delighted with me for giving her little girl so much enjoyment. More generally I've been told by other friends it has helped encourage childrten to read.
    It's much better than Blyton or Brown. I read it to my sons as it came out, but disjointedly (because other people were reading it to them) so as with the film Dr Zhivago I've probably seen the whole thing, but never in sequence.

    I am astonished at its success, I thought the market for drivel about fantasy boarding school life was dead as a dodo by the time orwell wrote about it.
    On a point of PB pedantry - the Jennings books by Anthony Buckeridge had quite a vogue in the 1950s and 1960s IIRC. Which, on checking, extended to the earlu 1990s, somewjat to my surprise (but I had grown up by then ...).

    But I don't think they made boarding school chic amongst da yoof.

    I loved the Jennings books. Because (unlike boarding school books written for girls) they were genuinely funny. At least, that's my memory of them.

    The continuing popularity of boarding school books is quite surprising (my oldest two lapped up the Enid Blyton ones) but it should be remembered that when these books first came out the majority of their readers didn't go to boarding school. It's not as if they ever were describing a world familiar to their readers.

    What a children's book needs to do is get the parents out of the way. That way, children get to be the genuine decision makers. Boarding school is one way to do this. The other common way to do this is by making the lead characters orphans.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,017
    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    You're not the only literary critic with that verdict. I have happy memories of seeing this next to Rosslyn Chapel (one of the key venues in the book, I understand):

    https://www.alamy.com/horse-manure-for-sale-in-farm-beside-rosslyn-chapel-using-da-vinci-image6906998.html
    People should give Dan Brown a break.

    Fifteen or so years ago, I stayed at a North Yorkshire B&B. I hadn't read the Da Vinci Code, and was very sniffy about it (*). They had a late-teenage daughter who, at breakfast, had her nose deep in the book. As we chatted, she said it was the first book she had ever read, she was gripped, and she wanted to read more books.

    Yes, it is crummy. Yes, it is poorly written. But if it acts as a gateway to literature for people put off from reading at school, then it's brilliant.

    (*) In fact, the first time I ever read a Dan Brown book was when I picked up a copy at a remote bothy; I read it, and left it at another bothy a few days later.
    In fairness that is also true.

    I can't bear Harry Potter - there is something that creeps me out utterly about it (perhaps more to do with me tbf). I bought the first book by mistake, so to speak (trying out a new local writer back in 1995 or so), and dumped it on a friend. Who was absolutely delighted with me for giving her little girl so much enjoyment. More generally I've been told by other friends it has helped encourage childrten to read.
    I can't bear Harry Potter either. But again, that's just me.
    I read the first Harry Potter book - I think there might have been a girl I was trying to impress - immediately after I read a book by Will Self. It was like arriving in a proper pub with decent beer and somewhere to sit and someone to talk to after spending two hours in a bar with a DJ and people trying to look good.
    Neither writer could write enjoyably. But JK Rowling didn't need to because that wasn't the point: the point was to spin a story. And I was, frankly, in awe of how well crafted the story was, and the more I hear of how the rest of the series developed the more this is so. And the story (the first book, at least) ended with some narrative finality which made you feel you'd got to the end of a journey and it had been worth the trip. Whereas Will Self was writing to make himself feel clever. And his plot was written to make himself feel clever. And neither the writing nor the plot were particularly satisfying. It wasn't clear what you were meant to think or feel after you've finished it, apart from "I have just read a book by Will Self."
    I do think in real life (or on telly at least) Will Self can be quite drily amusing, if you can put up with the haughty North-London-ness.
    You can't bear Harry Potter because you are a grown-up.

    They are for children, where the dreadful writing is fine because, like someone said of Dan Brown, they are a gateway. Although there are plenty of "children's books" which are well written. Or rather, books that should be read while still a child (eg Catcher, Mice & Men, CS Lewis, etc).
    No, or at least not just that: there was something that rattled me badly about boarding school life as portrayed. And the way childrten seemed to think it would be wonderful. Fortunately @Sean_F F has, I think, put his finger on it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271

    Thread on FR situation:

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1412707503746469891


    John Lichfield
    @john_lichfield
    Weekly French Covid thread
    Any hope of France containing the Delta variant can be abandoned. Delta’s share of new cases has doubled again in the last week to 40%. Case numbers and the incidence rate are climbing once more. The figures remain small but that won’t last.
    1/10

    Don't tell Roger....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,267
    edited July 2021
    kamski said:



    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'.
    Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.

    So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
    Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”

    Wtf?

    Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population

    Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.

    Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come

    Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model

    South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)

    In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
    Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.

    Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
    Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population

    Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
    Canada to be fair to Trudeau has also done relatively well, a lower death rate than the US, us and most of Europe and a vaccination rate now ahead of the US and most of Europe too and only slightly behind the UK
    Canada another country where social distancing is a way of life not just for Coronavirus.

    Canada's population density is less than 1% of England's.

    The distancing even in cities like Edmonton is nothing like anything you'd see anywhere in England.
    Yes but the majority of Canada's population lives in just 2 of its 10 provinces (and 3 territories), Ontario and Quebec.

    Toronto alone has a population of 5 million which is 14% of the entire Canadian population, even London has only 12% of the UK population
    That's relevant. But also relevant is that Canadians just don't get that close to one another. In my limited experience, conversation with Canadians tends to be shouted from several feet away. While Italians get slightly closer than is comfortable for a Brit.
    Even if you say Canada has the same population density advantage New Zealand does and a natural social distancing, there is no denying that Trudeau has vaccinated more than Ardern.

    69% of Canadians have now had 1 dose and 38% have had both doses, compared to just 16% of New Zealanders who have had 1 dose and a mere 10% who have had both doses
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html
    My son and daughter in law in Vancouver have their second doses tomorrow

    That's pretty good going. Germany seems to be showing signs of vaccine hesitancy with numbers vaccinated daily falling the last couple of weeks, despite vaccine deliveries being up a bit. Either that or it's doctors going on their summer holidays (my GP's practice is closed for 2 weeks so no vaccinations happening there...).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,699
    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    LOL - Chippy or what
    Latest set of grievances from SNP Pravda

    'The news is the latest in a growing line of grievances put forward by Scottish football fans about the England-centric approach the UK has taken to the Euros. As The National revealed last week, members of the royal family have attended more England football games in the past two weeks than they have matches played by Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland combined in the past two decades.

    In fact, the royal family has not attended a football match played by a home nation other than England this century. However, they have attended England youth games and England qualifiers for major tournaments.

    The BBC has also come under fire for its “commentators’ endless mentioning of the glories of ’66 and Gazza’s goal”.
    What do they want? Commentators endless talk about Scottish goal-keeping howlers?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,012
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    You're not the only literary critic with that verdict. I have happy memories of seeing this next to Rosslyn Chapel (one of the key venues in the book, I understand):

    https://www.alamy.com/horse-manure-for-sale-in-farm-beside-rosslyn-chapel-using-da-vinci-image6906998.html
    People should give Dan Brown a break.

    Fifteen or so years ago, I stayed at a North Yorkshire B&B. I hadn't read the Da Vinci Code, and was very sniffy about it (*). They had a late-teenage daughter who, at breakfast, had her nose deep in the book. As we chatted, she said it was the first book she had ever read, she was gripped, and she wanted to read more books.

    Yes, it is crummy. Yes, it is poorly written. But if it acts as a gateway to literature for people put off from reading at school, then it's brilliant.

    (*) In fact, the first time I ever read a Dan Brown book was when I picked up a copy at a remote bothy; I read it, and left it at another bothy a few days later.
    In fairness that is also true.

    I can't bear Harry Potter - there is something that creeps me out utterly about it (perhaps more to do with me tbf). I bought the first book by mistake, so to speak (trying out a new local writer back in 1995 or so), and dumped it on a friend. Who was absolutely delighted with me for giving her little girl so much enjoyment. More generally I've been told by other friends it has helped encourage childrten to read.
    I can't bear Harry Potter either. But again, that's just me.
    I read the first Harry Potter book - I think there might have been a girl I was trying to impress - immediately after I read a book by Will Self. It was like arriving in a proper pub with decent beer and somewhere to sit and someone to talk to after spending two hours in a bar with a DJ and people trying to look good.
    Neither writer could write enjoyably. But JK Rowling didn't need to because that wasn't the point: the point was to spin a story. And I was, frankly, in awe of how well crafted the story was, and the more I hear of how the rest of the series developed the more this is so. And the story (the first book, at least) ended with some narrative finality which made you feel you'd got to the end of a journey and it had been worth the trip. Whereas Will Self was writing to make himself feel clever. And his plot was written to make himself feel clever. And neither the writing nor the plot were particularly satisfying. It wasn't clear what you were meant to think or feel after you've finished it, apart from "I have just read a book by Will Self."
    I do think in real life (or on telly at least) Will Self can be quite drily amusing, if you can put up with the haughty North-London-ness.
    You can't bear Harry Potter because you are a grown-up.

    They are for children, where the dreadful writing is fine because, like someone said of Dan Brown, they are a gateway. Although there are plenty of "children's books" which are well written. Or rather, books that should be read while still a child (eg Catcher, Mice & Men, CS Lewis, etc).
    No, or at least not just that: there was something that rattled me badly about boarding school life as portrayed. And the way childrten seemed to think it would be wonderful. Fortunately @Sean_F F has, I think, put his finger on it.
    I used to love Billy Bunter books. Fantastic. Not a great recommendation for boarding schools either!!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    You're not the only literary critic with that verdict. I have happy memories of seeing this next to Rosslyn Chapel (one of the key venues in the book, I understand):

    https://www.alamy.com/horse-manure-for-sale-in-farm-beside-rosslyn-chapel-using-da-vinci-image6906998.html
    People should give Dan Brown a break.

    Fifteen or so years ago, I stayed at a North Yorkshire B&B. I hadn't read the Da Vinci Code, and was very sniffy about it (*). They had a late-teenage daughter who, at breakfast, had her nose deep in the book. As we chatted, she said it was the first book she had ever read, she was gripped, and she wanted to read more books.

    Yes, it is crummy. Yes, it is poorly written. But if it acts as a gateway to literature for people put off from reading at school, then it's brilliant.

    (*) In fact, the first time I ever read a Dan Brown book was when I picked up a copy at a remote bothy; I read it, and left it at another bothy a few days later.
    In fairness that is also true.

    I can't bear Harry Potter - there is something that creeps me out utterly about it (perhaps more to do with me tbf). I bought the first book by mistake, so to speak (trying out a new local writer back in 1995 or so), and dumped it on a friend. Who was absolutely delighted with me for giving her little girl so much enjoyment. More generally I've been told by other friends it has helped encourage childrten to read.
    It's much better than Blyton or Brown. I read it to my sons as it came out, but disjointedly (because other people were reading it to them) so as with the film Dr Zhivago I've probably seen the whole thing, but never in sequence.

    I am astonished at its success, I thought the market for drivel about fantasy boarding school life was dead as a dodo by the time orwell wrote about it.
    On a point of PB pedantry - the Jennings books by Anthony Buckeridge had quite a vogue in the 1950s and 1960s IIRC. Which, on checking, extended to the earlu 1990s, somewjat to my surprise (but I had grown up by then ...).

    But I don't think they made boarding school chic amongst da yoof.

    I loved those books when I was around 9 and 10.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,012

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    Supermarket tannoys have gone downhill in recent years - now full of cheap irritating songs (even if they annoy a couple of prickly people from Glasgow in this case) wheras once they fascinating to hear which underling employee needed to report to the managers office for a good telling off (or maybe something else if Mike Hancock was in charge). Then you would see some poor downtrodden worker scuttle off embarrassed past the aisles of beans and whisper to them "good luck mate "
    Reminds me of the old joke on the aeroplane when the captain leaves his mike on...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,267

    kamski said:



    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'.
    Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.

    So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
    Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”

    Wtf?

    Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population

    Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.

    Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come

    Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model

    South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)

    In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
    Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.

    Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
    Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population

    Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
    Canada to be fair to Trudeau has also done relatively well, a lower death rate than the US, us and most of Europe and a vaccination rate now ahead of the US and most of Europe too and only slightly behind the UK
    Canada another country where social distancing is a way of life not just for Coronavirus.

    Canada's population density is less than 1% of England's.

    The distancing even in cities like Edmonton is nothing like anything you'd see anywhere in England.
    Yes but the majority of Canada's population lives in just 2 of its 10 provinces (and 3 territories), Ontario and Quebec.

    Toronto alone has a population of 5 million which is 14% of the entire Canadian population, even London has only 12% of the UK population
    That's relevant. But also relevant is that Canadians just don't get that close to one another. In my limited experience, conversation with Canadians tends to be shouted from several feet away. While Italians get slightly closer than is comfortable for a Brit.
    Even if you say Canada has the same population density advantage New Zealand does and a natural social distancing, there is no denying that Trudeau has vaccinated more than Ardern.

    69% of Canadians have now had 1 dose and 38% have had both doses, compared to just 16% of New Zealanders who have had 1 dose and a mere 10% who have had both doses
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html
    My son and daughter in law in Vancouver have their second doses tomorrow
    That's pretty good going. Germany seems to be showing signs of vaccine hesitancy with numbers vaccinated daily falling the last couple of weeks, despite vaccine deliveries being up a bit. Either that or it's doctors going on their summer holidays (my GP's practice is closed for 2 weeks so no vaccinations happening there...).


    The essential issue is to double dose and we are on track to hit 70% by the 19th July
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,267

    kamski said:



    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I think what Roger means is 'we did worse than Germany'.
    Because surely he can't be expecting that Bulgaria, Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and so forth had more deaths than us in absolute terms. No-one who has even an ounce of maths in their body would expect that.

    So, fair point Roger - the UK has had more covid than Germany.
    Downthread someone suggested ‘Germany’ as an example of a country that handled the pandemic (so far) “really well”

    Wtf?

    Germany is the 19th largest country in the world by population

    Going by Worldometer (flawed but indicative) Germany is 12th in the world for total cases and also 12th for total deaths. Bad.

    Their economy in 2020 shrank by 5%. Also bad. And they still have Delta to come

    Germany did better than some European countries (the UK for one) but worse than others. Globally it is nowhere near the top rank and is no kind of model

    South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore are models. Perhaps oz and nz (but they have new issues now)

    In Europe maybe Denmark? You soon run out of exemplars
    Of the G7 nations Germany and Japan did the best, Germany locked down relatively early, certainly compared to the USA and us, had an effective track and trace and has a far better vaccination rate now than say New Zealand, Australia and France.

    Though globally Singapore is probably the best example, amongst the top nations in terms of vaccination rate and has had just 6 Covid deaths per million, compared to a global rate of 514
    Japan did waaaaay better than Germany healthwise. 15,000 deaths compared to 90,000 and with a bigger, older population

    Not so good on vaccines tho. We’ve yet to see if that bites them
    Canada to be fair to Trudeau has also done relatively well, a lower death rate than the US, us and most of Europe and a vaccination rate now ahead of the US and most of Europe too and only slightly behind the UK
    Canada another country where social distancing is a way of life not just for Coronavirus.

    Canada's population density is less than 1% of England's.

    The distancing even in cities like Edmonton is nothing like anything you'd see anywhere in England.
    Yes but the majority of Canada's population lives in just 2 of its 10 provinces (and 3 territories), Ontario and Quebec.

    Toronto alone has a population of 5 million which is 14% of the entire Canadian population, even London has only 12% of the UK population
    That's relevant. But also relevant is that Canadians just don't get that close to one another. In my limited experience, conversation with Canadians tends to be shouted from several feet away. While Italians get slightly closer than is comfortable for a Brit.
    Even if you say Canada has the same population density advantage New Zealand does and a natural social distancing, there is no denying that Trudeau has vaccinated more than Ardern.

    69% of Canadians have now had 1 dose and 38% have had both doses, compared to just 16% of New Zealanders who have had 1 dose and a mere 10% who have had both doses
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html
    My son and daughter in law in Vancouver have their second doses tomorrow
    That's pretty good going. Germany seems to be showing signs of vaccine hesitancy with numbers vaccinated daily falling the last couple of weeks, despite vaccine deliveries being up a bit. Either that or it's doctors going on their summer holidays (my GP's practice is closed for 2 weeks so no vaccinations happening there...).

    The essential issue is to double dose and we are on track to hit 70% by the 19th July

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363

    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Despite what the govt (and indeed the ‘system’) is saying, it feels hard to be confident the nhs can deal with what is already being thrown at it, never mind what’s likely to come over the next few weeks. Alarm bells are going off all over the place.
    https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1412766076073611267

    https://twitter.com/shaunlintern/status/1412742990456659969

    One wonders where that hospital in Scotland that's already at capacity will be in a few weeks time, with numbers (at least) doubling every fortnight.

    But it will be all be fine, because vaccines.
    You do know that Raigmore Hospital is in Inverness and under Sturgeon not Boris
    Are ANY hospitals "under Boris"? - If there are I'm avoiding. You'd go in with an ingrowing toenail and come out with a "spectacular" case of tendonitis plus a "world beating" fractured ankle.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755
    gealbhan said:

    moonshine said:

    gealbhan said:

    moonshine said:

    gealbhan said:

    Gnud said:

    Steven Reicher, social psychologist, may well be right that long Covid is about to become an even bigger issue than it is already. Long Covid includes symptoms such as chronic fatigue, poor memory, poor concentration, and insomnia, as well as chest pain, heart palpitations, and laboured breathing.

    For some of these symptoms it seems hard to near-impossible to assess the relative contributions of

    1) a previous SARSCoV2 infection - which may have been asymptomatic and completely unnoticed - and

    2) the emotional stress of lockdown.

    Chris Whitty is treated like some kind of god, but I have no idea why after he says he thinks we'll get "a significant amount" of long Covid, he says "particularly in the younger age [group] where the vaccination rates are currently much lower".

    Does vaccination reduce the risk of long Covid then? Cite please.

    Here is the official NHS advice:

    "The chances of having long-term symptoms does not seem to be linked to how ill you are when you first get COVID-19."

    So if what does not "seem" to be not true here [sic] actually is true then if vaccination does reduce the risk of long Covid it must achieve that effect by some other means than reducing the severity of standard Covid symptoms. We seem to be well into the territory of advanced speculation here. What does the "data" say? This is what journalists and MPs should be asking.

    You may think that the NHS advice on long Covid obviously excludes asymptomatic cases of SARSCov2 infection, because it clearly says "Covid-19" and not "SARSCoV2", and "Covid-19" cannot exist with zero symptoms because it is precisely a collection of symptoms. But the same page also talks of a "COVID-19 infection", so that interpretation would be mistaken.

    The context of long Covid is perhaps the best example of why the confusion between Covid and SARSCoV2 is so deplorable. This is not pedantry. What is a person supposed to do if they have never had Covid but they have started to suffer from chronic fatigue and terrible concentration? Should they have a drink at the pub on "Freedom Day" and hope the symptoms go away? Or should they form the view that it's probably long Covid and seek medical attention before they start to get chest pains and difficulties breathing?

    Reicher's figure of 40% of those INFECTED getting long Covid is cause for concern, to put it mildly. That could soon be millions of people.

    Final point: there may be good reasons for the whole "will we, won't we" thing, but it can feel like a case of Skinnerian "variable reward schedule" behavioural conditioning. A reversal before 19 July is likely to have some unpleasant mass-psychological effects.

    The metaphor I use is long covid a moor fire. People do the isolating, feel better, get back to it, but it’s still burning inside them. Not just vascular but cardiovascular and other organs.

    To protect the economy in long run we need to limit peak working age infections in short term.
    It was estimated before the advent of the vaccine programme that between 30-40% of Brits had been infected by the virus. So 40% of 40% times the UK population is give or take 10 million people who are already suffering from long covid according to these stats. However we interpret the term. Do we have 10 million formerly healthy people cascading into the NHS system because of insufferable medical symptoms? Or even mild ones?

    I don't want to do down long covid as a condition, I know one or two people who have been variously affected. But hard to avoid the conclusion that this is just the latest bullet being wildly fired by the lockdown fanatics, who have now lost the argument about excess death and ICUs collapsing, due to the success of the vaccine programme.
    I largely agree it’s a bullet being fired by scientists. But to call them lockdown fanatics, is that not your brain being too binary? Freedom Day fanatics on one side, zerocovididiots on the other?

    Vaccines have broken the link between infection and NHS unable to cope. Now putting the politics aside, is there no scientific argument for still limiting the number of infections at this stage. If the answer is no, there is current government policy. If the answer is yes, then what effectively achieves both that and further easing of restrictions.
    Perhaps yes. But I am reminded of when Obama was resisting a troop surge in Afghanistan and was criticised for it by the general. Don't remember which one. Obama replied that if all he was focused on achieving was defeating the Taliban, then he'd back the troop surge. But he had a far wider mandate that might be jeopardised by it.

    I always try and remember that when those up the chain at work make what look like perplexing strategic decisions. They probably have more info than I do but they certainly have a wider mandate and set of stakeholders to consider.

    I think the same is true here. Ask people who only have a mandate in public health (indeed one narrow area of public health!) what to do and they will always say it's better to be on the safe side. But there's a broader mandate to be followed than that. Interesting Witty, who oversees all pubic health considerations in his brief, now seems to believe his mandate is best fulfilled by ending mandatory restrictions.
    Indeed. The Economy.

    Do we truly know just how much deep shit UK economy is in? Like you said, we have to presume the people up the chain do, and can’t actually tell us.

    I think it is possible if the inflation rate has a Nigel Lawson blipping session, we will be in a 1977 position, needing IMF to pay key bills. I think people get confused between wealth and cash flow. You are wealthy because you are in big stately home with estate, but you don’t have the income to pay staff and electric bill.

    The inflation rate is key, if it goes up, as you would expect with exciting bounce back growth, then the cost of borrowing goes up hence hit on what is in the housekeeping jug.

    So I agree with you, about steering through the wider remit. But do you agree, in their more narrow remit the scientists are not necessary wrong, so there is too much trashing of them scientifically and personally on PB?
    They should be able to take a view slightly wider than “deaths from covid” even if they are are scientists.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,017
    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    LOL - Chippy or what
    Latest set of grievances from SNP Pravda

    'The news is the latest in a growing line of grievances put forward by Scottish football fans about the England-centric approach the UK has taken to the Euros. As The National revealed last week, members of the royal family have attended more England football games in the past two weeks than they have matches played by Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland combined in the past two decades.

    In fact, the royal family has not attended a football match played by a home nation other than England this century. However, they have attended England youth games and England qualifiers for major tournaments.

    The BBC has also come under fire for its “commentators’ endless mentioning of the glories of ’66 and Gazza’s goal”.
    One complaint reported (NB: not editorialised) by a newspaper owned by a unionist-supportring media firm and tending to report the Green point of view as much as the SNP one = "set of greivances from SNP Pravda".
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,267
    Deleted
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,694


    I've read the Da Vinci Code (OK, yes, it is bad) but couldn't get through much in the way of Thomas Hardy, despite encouragement from the spouse. Does that make me a bad person?

    I'm intrigued as to which bothy now. I don't have it as a book for Bob Scott's or the Tarf Hotel. Definitely Sourlies in the rain or perhaps even Kervaig.

    Goodness, that's a question! I think it was on the TGO Challenge back in 2005. I love Kearvaig, and have walked past (but never stayed in) Sourlies. That was a bit of a bugger of a walk along the southern coast of Lich Nevis from Tarbet Bothy. That afternoon, took the easy route over the pass from Sourlies to Inverie.

    Happy times.
    Indeed. I'm a tent person rather than a bothy person, but the names and places have always meant adventure.

    Last bothy I passed was Shenavall, 3 years ago now. :-(

    Damn this pandemic.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,903
    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    You're not the only literary critic with that verdict. I have happy memories of seeing this next to Rosslyn Chapel (one of the key venues in the book, I understand):

    https://www.alamy.com/horse-manure-for-sale-in-farm-beside-rosslyn-chapel-using-da-vinci-image6906998.html
    People should give Dan Brown a break.

    Fifteen or so years ago, I stayed at a North Yorkshire B&B. I hadn't read the Da Vinci Code, and was very sniffy about it (*). They had a late-teenage daughter who, at breakfast, had her nose deep in the book. As we chatted, she said it was the first book she had ever read, she was gripped, and she wanted to read more books.

    Yes, it is crummy. Yes, it is poorly written. But if it acts as a gateway to literature for people put off from reading at school, then it's brilliant.

    (*) In fact, the first time I ever read a Dan Brown book was when I picked up a copy at a remote bothy; I read it, and left it at another bothy a few days later.
    In fairness that is also true.

    I can't bear Harry Potter - there is something that creeps me out utterly about it (perhaps more to do with me tbf). I bought the first book by mistake, so to speak (trying out a new local writer back in 1995 or so), and dumped it on a friend. Who was absolutely delighted with me for giving her little girl so much enjoyment. More generally I've been told by other friends it has helped encourage childrten to read.
    I can't bear Harry Potter either. But again, that's just me.
    I read the first Harry Potter book - I think there might have been a girl I was trying to impress - immediately after I read a book by Will Self. It was like arriving in a proper pub with decent beer and somewhere to sit and someone to talk to after spending two hours in a bar with a DJ and people trying to look good.
    Neither writer could write enjoyably. But JK Rowling didn't need to because that wasn't the point: the point was to spin a story. And I was, frankly, in awe of how well crafted the story was, and the more I hear of how the rest of the series developed the more this is so. And the story (the first book, at least) ended with some narrative finality which made you feel you'd got to the end of a journey and it had been worth the trip. Whereas Will Self was writing to make himself feel clever. And his plot was written to make himself feel clever. And neither the writing nor the plot were particularly satisfying. It wasn't clear what you were meant to think or feel after you've finished it, apart from "I have just read a book by Will Self."
    I do think in real life (or on telly at least) Will Self can be quite drily amusing, if you can put up with the haughty North-London-ness.
    You can't bear Harry Potter because you are a grown-up.

    They are for children, where the dreadful writing is fine because, like someone said of Dan Brown, they are a gateway. Although there are plenty of "children's books" which are well written. Or rather, books that should be read while still a child (eg Catcher, Mice & Men, CS Lewis, etc).
    Yes, that's exactly it. I don't need to find them enjoyable. And like I said, I admire the plotting - how I admire the plotting - and that is so much more important.

    I read the opening few pages with my middle daughter of the CS Lewis Heptology(?) recently and - while I knew about and was irritated by the Christian allegory aspect - I was blown away by just how well-written it was. Quite 1950s, yes, but with an elegance of language that was astonishing.

    I'd also place AA Milne and Julia Donaldson in the 'well written' category for children, albeit rather younger.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,407
    @Carnyx There's a lot of stuff that's really quite nasty in the world of Harry Potter. It's a pre-enlightenment world. The fact that muggles and muggle-borns are viewed in much the same light as cattle; even the "good guys" think nothing about wiping their memories when it suits them; the view that consent to sex can be procured by means of a spell or love-potion; the use of soul-consumption as a punishment, something that even Stalin's executioners would have baulked at. That nastiness is what makes it appealing to children, like Roald Dahl.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363
    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    You're not the only literary critic with that verdict. I have happy memories of seeing this next to Rosslyn Chapel (one of the key venues in the book, I understand):

    https://www.alamy.com/horse-manure-for-sale-in-farm-beside-rosslyn-chapel-using-da-vinci-image6906998.html
    People should give Dan Brown a break.

    Fifteen or so years ago, I stayed at a North Yorkshire B&B. I hadn't read the Da Vinci Code, and was very sniffy about it (*). They had a late-teenage daughter who, at breakfast, had her nose deep in the book. As we chatted, she said it was the first book she had ever read, she was gripped, and she wanted to read more books.

    Yes, it is crummy. Yes, it is poorly written. But if it acts as a gateway to literature for people put off from reading at school, then it's brilliant.

    (*) In fact, the first time I ever read a Dan Brown book was when I picked up a copy at a remote bothy; I read it, and left it at another bothy a few days later.
    In fairness that is also true.

    I can't bear Harry Potter - there is something that creeps me out utterly about it (perhaps more to do with me tbf). I bought the first book by mistake, so to speak (trying out a new local writer back in 1995 or so), and dumped it on a friend. Who was absolutely delighted with me for giving her little girl so much enjoyment. More generally I've been told by other friends it has helped encourage childrten to read.
    Supply teaching at a particularly rough Manchester comp c, 2001.
    Year 7 English.30 kids reading Harry Potter, as assigned. No talking, or pissing about winding up the supply. There was an audible groan when the bell went too.
    I could not believe it. Until I had my own kids.
    I think it's the blend of magic in an otherwise relatable (esp for kids) school environment.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    edited July 2021

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    I notice nobody is playing the official England Euro 2020 anthem....that contains the N word....
    Don't hate or @ me but Three Lions and Vindaloo are songs are rubbish songs.

    Give me World In Motion any day.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    Scott_xP said:

    The great @JoeMurphyLondon reports that Boris Johnson is relying on data which predicts herd immunity will soon be reached, pushing cases back down - and that DHSC has rebranded it 'hybrid immunity'. https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1412763582941564932

    Are they sure that Boris is viewing the model's graph the right way up?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    moonshine said:

    gealbhan said:

    moonshine said:

    gealbhan said:

    moonshine said:

    gealbhan said:

    Gnud said:

    Steven Reicher, social psychologist, may well be right that long Covid is about to become an even bigger issue than it is already. Long Covid includes symptoms such as chronic fatigue, poor memory, poor concentration, and insomnia, as well as chest pain, heart palpitations, and laboured breathing.

    For some of these symptoms it seems hard to near-impossible to assess the relative contributions of

    1) a previous SARSCoV2 infection - which may have been asymptomatic and completely unnoticed - and

    2) the emotional stress of lockdown.

    Chris Whitty is treated like some kind of god, but I have no idea why after he says he thinks we'll get "a significant amount" of long Covid, he says "particularly in the younger age [group] where the vaccination rates are currently much lower".

    Does vaccination reduce the risk of long Covid then? Cite please.

    Here is the official NHS advice:

    "The chances of having long-term symptoms does not seem to be linked to how ill you are when you first get COVID-19."

    So if what does not "seem" to be not true here [sic] actually is true then if vaccination does reduce the risk of long Covid it must achieve that effect by some other means than reducing the severity of standard Covid symptoms. We seem to be well into the territory of advanced speculation here. What does the "data" say? This is what journalists and MPs should be asking.

    You may think that the NHS advice on long Covid obviously excludes asymptomatic cases of SARSCov2 infection, because it clearly says "Covid-19" and not "SARSCoV2", and "Covid-19" cannot exist with zero symptoms because it is precisely a collection of symptoms. But the same page also talks of a "COVID-19 infection", so that interpretation would be mistaken.

    The context of long Covid is perhaps the best example of why the confusion between Covid and SARSCoV2 is so deplorable. This is not pedantry. What is a person supposed to do if they have never had Covid but they have started to suffer from chronic fatigue and terrible concentration? Should they have a drink at the pub on "Freedom Day" and hope the symptoms go away? Or should they form the view that it's probably long Covid and seek medical attention before they start to get chest pains and difficulties breathing?

    Reicher's figure of 40% of those INFECTED getting long Covid is cause for concern, to put it mildly. That could soon be millions of people.

    Final point: there may be good reasons for the whole "will we, won't we" thing, but it can feel like a case of Skinnerian "variable reward schedule" behavioural conditioning. A reversal before 19 July is likely to have some unpleasant mass-psychological effects.

    The metaphor I use is long covid a moor fire. People do the isolating, feel better, get back to it, but it’s still burning inside them. Not just vascular but cardiovascular and other organs.

    To protect the economy in long run we need to limit peak working age infections in short term.
    It was estimated before the advent of the vaccine programme that between 30-40% of Brits had been infected by the virus. So 40% of 40% times the UK population is give or take 10 million people who are already suffering from long covid according to these stats. However we interpret the term. Do we have 10 million formerly healthy people cascading into the NHS system because of insufferable medical symptoms? Or even mild ones?

    I don't want to do down long covid as a condition, I know one or two people who have been variously affected. But hard to avoid the conclusion that this is just the latest bullet being wildly fired by the lockdown fanatics, who have now lost the argument about excess death and ICUs collapsing, due to the success of the vaccine programme.
    I largely agree it’s a bullet being fired by scientists. But to call them lockdown fanatics, is that not your brain being too binary? Freedom Day fanatics on one side, zerocovididiots on the other?

    Vaccines have broken the link between infection and NHS unable to cope. Now putting the politics aside, is there no scientific argument for still limiting the number of infections at this stage. If the answer is no, there is current government policy. If the answer is yes, then what effectively achieves both that and further easing of restrictions.
    Perhaps yes. But I am reminded of when Obama was resisting a troop surge in Afghanistan and was criticised for it by the general. Don't remember which one. Obama replied that if all he was focused on achieving was defeating the Taliban, then he'd back the troop surge. But he had a far wider mandate that might be jeopardised by it.

    I always try and remember that when those up the chain at work make what look like perplexing strategic decisions. They probably have more info than I do but they certainly have a wider mandate and set of stakeholders to consider.

    I think the same is true here. Ask people who only have a mandate in public health (indeed one narrow area of public health!) what to do and they will always say it's better to be on the safe side. But there's a broader mandate to be followed than that. Interesting Witty, who oversees all pubic health considerations in his brief, now seems to believe his mandate is best fulfilled by ending mandatory restrictions.
    Indeed. The Economy.

    Do we truly know just how much deep shit UK economy is in? Like you said, we have to presume the people up the chain do, and can’t actually tell us.

    I think it is possible if the inflation rate has a Nigel Lawson blipping session, we will be in a 1977 position, needing IMF to pay key bills. I think people get confused between wealth and cash flow. You are wealthy because you are in big stately home with estate, but you don’t have the income to pay staff and electric bill.

    The inflation rate is key, if it goes up, as you would expect with exciting bounce back growth, then the cost of borrowing goes up hence hit on what is in the housekeeping jug.

    So I agree with you, about steering through the wider remit. But do you agree, in their more narrow remit the scientists are not necessary wrong, so there is too much trashing of them scientifically and personally on PB?
    They should be able to take a view slightly wider than “deaths from covid” even if they are are scientists.
    Almost all interviews with scientists offer no context and no wider views whatsoever. Either from scientist or broadcaster.

    Both size conflate restrictions with 'safety' and freedom with 'risk' almost 100%.

    If we fell into the hands of the IMF, the public sector spending cuts they would insist on in return for funding would make 2010 - 2015 austerity look like a tea party.

    We would then see that the restrictions/safety vs freedom/risk argument to be the gargantuan lie it really is.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    THE SPECTATOR: How China bought Cambridge

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1412777626440278016?s=20
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,303

    Krishnan Guru-Murthy
    @krishgm
    ·
    2h
    Repeatedly now, asked by politicians and journalists, the government has refused to reveal what it has been warned about the number of deaths and hospitalisations to expect after opening up fully on July 19th. You have to ask yourself why, because they won't answer.

    Erhhhh....because that info is just about to be released? I presume they are putting the finishing touches to the academic papers, but the government have been given the general take home messages.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-august-covid-virus-fall-exclusive-b944552.html
    Hmm.

    There are two questions here-
    i) When will the peak top out and when (after that) will it all be over?
    ii) How bad will it get in the meantime?

    The source quoted in the Standard tells us something about the first question, but not the second. And given how bad things got in 2020 without the NHS quite falling over, confidence that the health system can cope isn't that informative either.

    So what is the best guess for question ii)? If we don't know, why shouldn't people point out that here to mid-August gives time for four doublings from here? (To be clear, my only experience here is fitting data to exponentials, because it's what physicists do. The first two of those doublings are probably baked-in already, and the third might be hard to avoid.)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,514
    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Despite what the govt (and indeed the ‘system’) is saying, it feels hard to be confident the nhs can deal with what is already being thrown at it, never mind what’s likely to come over the next few weeks. Alarm bells are going off all over the place.
    https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1412766076073611267

    https://twitter.com/shaunlintern/status/1412742990456659969

    One wonders where that hospital in Scotland that's already at capacity will be in a few weeks time, with numbers (at least) doubling every fortnight.

    But it will be all be fine, because vaccines.
    Cases in Scotland seem to have started dropping. Schools out, Scotland football team out.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    I wish Of Mice and Men had been cancelled when I was child. That was, without a doubt, one of the least enjoyable books I've been forced to slog through. I'd have rather watched Simple Jack.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,407
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    @Carnyx There's a lot of stuff that's really quite nasty in the world of Harry Potter. It's a pre-enlightenment world. The fact that muggles and muggle-borns are viewed in much the same light as cattle; even the "good guys" think nothing about wiping their memories when it suits them; the view that consent to sex can be procured by means of a spell or love-potion; the use of soul-consumption as a punishment, something that even Stalin's executioners would have baulked at. That nastiness is what makes it appealing to children, like Roald Dahl.

    Also, Dolores Umbridge is possibly the most skin crawlingly evil baddy out there. She is, without a doubt, Rowling's most brilliant creation.
    She's repulsive. Why does the fandom love Bellatrix but loathe Umbridge?

    Bellatrix is the kind of villain who possesses the courage and integrity of a prince of hell, owning her deeds, and unwavering in her loyalty.

    Umbridge is the kind of villain who claims she was only obeying orders, and who pins the blame on others.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,267
    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Despite what the govt (and indeed the ‘system’) is saying, it feels hard to be confident the nhs can deal with what is already being thrown at it, never mind what’s likely to come over the next few weeks. Alarm bells are going off all over the place.
    https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1412766076073611267

    https://twitter.com/shaunlintern/status/1412742990456659969

    One wonders where that hospital in Scotland that's already at capacity will be in a few weeks time, with numbers (at least) doubling every fortnight.

    But it will be all be fine, because vaccines.
    You do know that Raigmore Hospital is in Inverness and under Sturgeon not Boris
    Are ANY hospitals "under Boris"? - If there are I'm avoiding. You'd go in with an ingrowing toenail and come out with a "spectacular" case of tendonitis plus a "world beating" fractured ankle.
    I am not sure your point but covid related and hospital admissions in Scotland are the responsibility of the Scottish Government and South of the border, England's Government
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    Why didn't I get a cheque?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,504
    What, a whole new generation of spy/traitors ?

    Meanwhile, another industry stolen...

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202106/1226307.shtml
    ...Sidang village in North China's Tianjin Municipality, dubbed the "saxophone capital of China," is suffering a shortage of blue-collar workers due to its big production and a low salary.

    Accounting for 70 percent of saxophone production in China and half of the global saxophone production, the village produces 20,000 saxophones every month with three quarters of residents in the village working in the saxophone industry.

    The average monthly salary of residents is over 30,000 yuan ($4,700), said a government official from the village, but that of saxophone makers is reportedly 20,000 yuan. He noted that the village is short of skilled workers needed to tackle the increasing demand for saxophones....
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    I notice nobody is playing the official England Euro 2020 anthem....that contains the N word....
    Don't hate or @ me but Three Lions and Vindaloo are songs are rubbish songs.

    Give me World In Motion any day.
    Keith Allen once said on the radio that when they did WIM, Gazza was originally down to do the Barnes rap.

    Apparently Allen said he was quite good except for the fact his accent was so strong nobody could understand a word

    'Yave gat ter herld and guve, but dae it at the reet teem.....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited July 2021

    Krishnan Guru-Murthy
    @krishgm
    ·
    2h
    Repeatedly now, asked by politicians and journalists, the government has refused to reveal what it has been warned about the number of deaths and hospitalisations to expect after opening up fully on July 19th. You have to ask yourself why, because they won't answer.

    Erhhhh....because that info is just about to be released? I presume they are putting the finishing touches to the academic papers, but the government have been given the general take home messages.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-august-covid-virus-fall-exclusive-b944552.html
    Hmm.

    There are two questions here-
    i) When will the peak top out and when (after that) will it all be over?
    ii) How bad will it get in the meantime?

    The source quoted in the Standard tells us something about the first question, but not the second. And given how bad things got in 2020 without the NHS quite falling over, confidence that the health system can cope isn't that informative either.

    So what is the best guess for question ii)? If we don't know, why shouldn't people point out that here to mid-August gives time for four doublings from here? (To be clear, my only experience here is fitting data to exponentials, because it's what physicists do. The first two of those doublings are probably baked-in already, and the third might be hard to avoid.)
    The paper(s) that the Evening Standard have been briefed on will I am sure provide information on this, as have all previous models that the government / SAGE have commissioned.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    @Carnyx There's a lot of stuff that's really quite nasty in the world of Harry Potter. It's a pre-enlightenment world. The fact that muggles and muggle-borns are viewed in much the same light as cattle; even the "good guys" think nothing about wiping their memories when it suits them; the view that consent to sex can be procured by means of a spell or love-potion; the use of soul-consumption as a punishment, something that even Stalin's executioners would have baulked at. That nastiness is what makes it appealing to children, like Roald Dahl.

    Also, Dolores Umbridge is possibly the most skin crawlingly evil baddy out there. She is, without a doubt, Rowling's most brilliant creation.
    She's repulsive. Why does the fandom love Bellatrix but loathe Umbridge?

    Bellatrix is the kind of villain who possesses the courage and integrity of a prince of hell, owning her deeds, and unwavering in her loyalty.

    Umbridge is the kind of villain who claims she was only obeying orders, and who pins the blame on others.
    Because the fandom has fantasies about Bellatrix Lestrange be a dom to them.

    Nobody has that fantasy about Dolores Umbridge.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,504
    rcs1000 said:

    I wish Of Mice and Men had been cancelled when I was child. That was, without a doubt, one of the least enjoyable books I've been forced to slog through. I'd have rather watched Simple Jack.

    My daughter, who has had to teach it, is of a not dissimilar opinion.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,017

    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    @Carnyx There's a lot of stuff that's really quite nasty in the world of Harry Potter. It's a pre-enlightenment world. The fact that muggles and muggle-borns are viewed in much the same light as cattle; even the "good guys" think nothing about wiping their memories when it suits them; the view that consent to sex can be procured by means of a spell or love-potion; the use of soul-consumption as a punishment, something that even Stalin's executioners would have baulked at. That nastiness is what makes it appealing to children, like Roald Dahl.

    Also, Dolores Umbridge is possibly the most skin crawlingly evil baddy out there. She is, without a doubt, Rowling's most brilliant creation.
    She's repulsive. Why does the fandom love Bellatrix but loathe Umbridge?

    Bellatrix is the kind of villain who possesses the courage and integrity of a prince of hell, owning her deeds, and unwavering in her loyalty.

    Umbridge is the kind of villain who claims she was only obeying orders, and who pins the blame on others.
    Because the fandom has fantasies about Bellatrix Lestrange be a dom to them.

    Nobody has that fantasy about Dolores Umbridge.
    Ah. So a spot of flage is still a good old boarding school tradition, is it?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,623
    rcs1000 said:

    Why didn't I get a cheque?
    I knew we should've been suspicious when that Farrow and Ball appeared.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,514
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    You're not the only literary critic with that verdict. I have happy memories of seeing this next to Rosslyn Chapel (one of the key venues in the book, I understand):

    https://www.alamy.com/horse-manure-for-sale-in-farm-beside-rosslyn-chapel-using-da-vinci-image6906998.html
    People should give Dan Brown a break.

    Fifteen or so years ago, I stayed at a North Yorkshire B&B. I hadn't read the Da Vinci Code, and was very sniffy about it (*). They had a late-teenage daughter who, at breakfast, had her nose deep in the book. As we chatted, she said it was the first book she had ever read, she was gripped, and she wanted to read more books.

    Yes, it is crummy. Yes, it is poorly written. But if it acts as a gateway to literature for people put off from reading at school, then it's brilliant.

    (*) In fact, the first time I ever read a Dan Brown book was when I picked up a copy at a remote bothy; I read it, and left it at another bothy a few days later.
    In fairness that is also true.

    I can't bear Harry Potter - there is something that creeps me out utterly about it (perhaps more to do with me tbf). I bought the first book by mistake, so to speak (trying out a new local writer back in 1995 or so), and dumped it on a friend. Who was absolutely delighted with me for giving her little girl so much enjoyment. More generally I've been told by other friends it has helped encourage childrten to read.
    It's much better than Blyton or Brown. I read it to my sons as it came out, but disjointedly (because other people were reading it to them) so as with the film Dr Zhivago I've probably seen the whole thing, but never in sequence.

    I am astonished at its success, I thought the market for drivel about fantasy boarding school life was dead as a dodo by the time orwell wrote about it.
    I think it was just one of those things that made it at the right time. They are certainly not great literature, but they keep you turning the page to find out what happens. The early books have a cosy, famous five/scooby doo feel to them. Shit gets real when Voldemort returns and we see a character die (as does Harry). After that the books are longer, grittier and more adult. There are some great themes - magic vs muggles, hatred and intolerance defeated by love and friendship. Sure they are massively derivative, but isn't everything ultimately?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    I think they spelled Oxford wrong.

    Although is this news, all qualifications from Oxford and meaningless.

    An Oxford academic handed out a “meaningless” university qualification to a Hong Kong businessman with ties to the Chinese authorities at a high-profile ceremony in Shanghai last year, in the latest incident to raise concerns about Chinese influence on UK higher education.

    Alan Hudson awarded the title “Belt and Road Academician from Oxford University” to Chan King Wai, who is a member of an advisory body to China’s rubber-stamp parliament, at a ceremony attended by an official from the British consulate and dozens of other people.

    The belt and road initiative is a major foreign and economic policy project which has been at the heart of China’s increasingly assertive international presence under its president, Xi Jinping.

    Oxford University only gives a handful of honorary degrees at the Encaenia ceremony each year. Hudson, who has now retired from his position at Oxford, confirmed he had created the title given to Chan, and that it did not carry any official weight.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/16/how-fake-award-for-a-tycoon-left-oxford-university-open-to-chinese-influence

    Then there's this.

    The China Oxford Scholarship Fund (COSF) awards scholarships to students from the People’s Republic of China, Hong Kong and Macau who have won a place for postgraduate degree studies on a full-time basis at the University of Oxford. Up to twenty scholarships are awarded annually. Preference is given to those who are studying in the United Kingdom for the first time. Successful candidates are those of the highest calibre studying in any subject. They are chosen for their academic excellence, financial need, leadership quality and their commitment to contribute to the development of China.


    https://chinaoxford.org/

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    Here's a little bit of good - if unsurprising - news. The rise of Delta is resulting in more Israelis taking the Covid vaccine. In the last 14 days, the proportion of Israelis having had at least one dose has finally started moving again, going from 63% to 65%.

    This also suggests that we may well see vaccine uptake pick up again in the US as Delta's grip increases.

    Separately, France's vaccine hesitancy continues to not show itself in the numbers: in terms of percent of adults with at least one dose, it's back ahead of Germany and Spain.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    @Carnyx There's a lot of stuff that's really quite nasty in the world of Harry Potter. It's a pre-enlightenment world. The fact that muggles and muggle-borns are viewed in much the same light as cattle; even the "good guys" think nothing about wiping their memories when it suits them; the view that consent to sex can be procured by means of a spell or love-potion; the use of soul-consumption as a punishment, something that even Stalin's executioners would have baulked at. That nastiness is what makes it appealing to children, like Roald Dahl.

    Also, Dolores Umbridge is possibly the most skin crawlingly evil baddy out there. She is, without a doubt, Rowling's most brilliant creation.
    She's repulsive. Why does the fandom love Bellatrix but loathe Umbridge?

    Bellatrix is the kind of villain who possesses the courage and integrity of a prince of hell, owning her deeds, and unwavering in her loyalty.

    Umbridge is the kind of villain who claims she was only obeying orders, and who pins the blame on others.
    Because the fandom has fantasies about Bellatrix Lestrange be a dom to them.

    Nobody has that fantasy about Dolores Umbridge.
    Ah. So a spot of flage is still a good old boarding school tradition, is it?
    I wouldn't know, I didn't attend a boarding school.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,407

    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    @Carnyx There's a lot of stuff that's really quite nasty in the world of Harry Potter. It's a pre-enlightenment world. The fact that muggles and muggle-borns are viewed in much the same light as cattle; even the "good guys" think nothing about wiping their memories when it suits them; the view that consent to sex can be procured by means of a spell or love-potion; the use of soul-consumption as a punishment, something that even Stalin's executioners would have baulked at. That nastiness is what makes it appealing to children, like Roald Dahl.

    Also, Dolores Umbridge is possibly the most skin crawlingly evil baddy out there. She is, without a doubt, Rowling's most brilliant creation.
    She's repulsive. Why does the fandom love Bellatrix but loathe Umbridge?

    Bellatrix is the kind of villain who possesses the courage and integrity of a prince of hell, owning her deeds, and unwavering in her loyalty.

    Umbridge is the kind of villain who claims she was only obeying orders, and who pins the blame on others.
    Because the fandom has fantasies about Bellatrix Lestrange be a dom to them.

    Nobody has that fantasy about Dolores Umbridge.
    The amount of Bellatrix/Hermione sub-dom fanfiction is prodigious.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,869
    rcs1000 said:

    I wish Of Mice and Men had been cancelled when I was child. That was, without a doubt, one of the least enjoyable books I've been forced to slog through. I'd have rather watched Simple Jack.

    At least you learnt how to spell 'purty'.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,303

    Krishnan Guru-Murthy
    @krishgm
    ·
    2h
    Repeatedly now, asked by politicians and journalists, the government has refused to reveal what it has been warned about the number of deaths and hospitalisations to expect after opening up fully on July 19th. You have to ask yourself why, because they won't answer.

    Erhhhh....because that info is just about to be released? I presume they are putting the finishing touches to the academic papers, but the government have been given the general take home messages.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-august-covid-virus-fall-exclusive-b944552.html
    Hmm.

    There are two questions here-
    i) When will the peak top out and when (after that) will it all be over?
    ii) How bad will it get in the meantime?

    The source quoted in the Standard tells us something about the first question, but not the second. And given how bad things got in 2020 without the NHS quite falling over, confidence that the health system can cope isn't that informative either.

    So what is the best guess for question ii)? If we don't know, why shouldn't people point out that here to mid-August gives time for four doublings from here? (To be clear, my only experience here is fitting data to exponentials, because it's what physicists do. The first two of those doublings are probably baked-in already, and the third might be hard to avoid.)
    The paper(s) that the Evening Standard have been briefed on will I am sure provide information on this, as have all previous models that the government / SAGE have commissioned.
    One would hope so. But the Standard are only reporting on one axis of the graph. Now there may be an innocent explanation for that, but it is the kind of thing that makes one suspicious.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited July 2021

    Krishnan Guru-Murthy
    @krishgm
    ·
    2h
    Repeatedly now, asked by politicians and journalists, the government has refused to reveal what it has been warned about the number of deaths and hospitalisations to expect after opening up fully on July 19th. You have to ask yourself why, because they won't answer.

    Erhhhh....because that info is just about to be released? I presume they are putting the finishing touches to the academic papers, but the government have been given the general take home messages.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-august-covid-virus-fall-exclusive-b944552.html
    Hmm.

    There are two questions here-
    i) When will the peak top out and when (after that) will it all be over?
    ii) How bad will it get in the meantime?

    The source quoted in the Standard tells us something about the first question, but not the second. And given how bad things got in 2020 without the NHS quite falling over, confidence that the health system can cope isn't that informative either.

    So what is the best guess for question ii)? If we don't know, why shouldn't people point out that here to mid-August gives time for four doublings from here? (To be clear, my only experience here is fitting data to exponentials, because it's what physicists do. The first two of those doublings are probably baked-in already, and the third might be hard to avoid.)
    The paper(s) that the Evening Standard have been briefed on will I am sure provide information on this, as have all previous models that the government / SAGE have commissioned.
    One would hope so. But the Standard are only reporting on one axis of the graph. Now there may be an innocent explanation for that, but it is the kind of thing that makes one suspicious.
    I know the government commissioned models have been rubbish so far and members of SAGE / government ministers haven't questioned the underlying assumptions enough, but they always model cases, hospitalizations and deaths.

    I think it is highly improbable that they would just stop now, especially when the whole push of the government position is based on large numbers of cases isn't the important factor, its the other two.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,303
    mwadams said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why didn't I get a cheque?
    I knew we should've been suspicious when that Farrow and Ball appeared.
    Mia Farrow and Bobby Ball would be an intriguing double act for the kind of May Ball where the person booking the entertainments has more budget than sense.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,903

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    I notice nobody is playing the official England Euro 2020 anthem....that contains the N word....
    Don't hate or @ me but Three Lions and Vindaloo are songs are rubbish songs.

    Give me World In Motion any day.
    Yes, I agree.

    I can’t help feeling a sense of slight if-only about the ubiquity of ‘Football’s Coming Home’. I yield to no-one in my admiration of Ian Broudie’s songwriting ability; indeed, ‘Football’s Coming Home’ is uniquely brilliant in the context of football songs. Its brilliance lies in its ambivalence: it’s not triumphant: it’s about disappointment rather than triumph, and indeed the version released for 2018 started with a long rant from Alan Shearer on the awfulness of the team. The video is full of images of failure: Gareth Southgate’s penalty miss, Frank Lampard’s disallowed goal, players collapsing to the turf, spent, beaten exhausted. Of course, this is just the set-up to the rest of the song, and it gets rather more optimistic from there, but the general theme of the song is about hope despite repeated disappointment. Plus – while, as I said, I think the song is brilliant: genuinely lump-in-the-throat stuff for an Englishman of a certain age – the melody is, well, a little melancholy for the situation right now when England is actually in the semi-final and is fans might allow themsleves a little lightness of spirit (I was going to say optimism, but it’s far too early for optimism).
    #
    So I have been considering my alternative England major tournament soundtrack. The obvious choice, of course, is ‘World in Motion’, which remains the greatest football song of all time. Consider this: when it was released, the inimitable ‘Back Home’ was 20 years old and, while splendid, felt like it came from another era – musically, it isn’t so very unlike the theme tune from Dad’s Army. ‘World in Motion’ is now 31 years old and hasn’t dated a day. It still retains the glorious summeriness of the 1990 World Cup, too. If I could make one minor quibble, it is that ‘going round the back’ is no longer the one-way to beat them; for this tournament other approaches have been more successful. But to uphold that quibble really would be to stretch pedantry to breaking point.

    ... (cont - have been foiled in my excitment at the opportunit to discuss football/pop music crossovers by word-count limits...)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,903
    (2/3)
    The other obvious choice is Fat Les’s ‘Vindaloo’. A bit marmite, this one: I love it, but I know many people do not. Still, I recently re-watched the video on Youtube; it is glorious: anarchic, tubthumping, surreal, and also has a ready-made terrace chant. I cannot listen to it without feeling happy. It’s a song that makes you want to jump on the bandwagon, and I say this as one with an aversion to joining in.

    Most football songs, of course, official or otherwise, are terrible, and life is too short to lament them all individually. But there are still a few gems amongst the execrabilia: three worth highlighting are:
    - Black Grape’s ‘England’s Irie’ (containing one of the most situation-specific lines in popular music: 'I’ll be spectating while my wife’s lactating’);
    - Colourbox's 'The Official Colourbox World Cup Theme' - no lyrics, but a club classic from, I think, 1986 and a nice picture of Jimmy Hill on the cover, if you like that sort of thing - a disco classic from the eighties, I understand, though am slightly too young to confirm, and so very nearly the choice of the BBC for that tournament; and
    - Collapsed Lung’s ‘Eat my Goal’. (Speaking of which, Jim Burke from Collapsed Lung also trades under the chap-hop persona of Mr. B the Gentleman Rhymer, whose ‘Let’s Get This Over and Done With’, which, though superficially about how cricket is better than football, is still a) clearly and explicitly a (football) world cup song, b) good fun, and c) could be – if the whimsical notion ever took them – easily and purposefully adapted by a terracefull of England fans.)

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,903
    (3/3)
    Moving beyond songs recorded explicitly for or about the World Cup, I’d include a few songs which are irrevocably, to me, associated with football. The best example of this is the Fall’s ‘Theme from Sparta FC #2’, which actually is about football, in some typically-Fall hard-to-fathom way, but more pertinently was also for many years the theme tune to Final Score on the BBC. Again, it induced the same sort of mood as Vindaloo: tubthumping, triumphant, mildly martial. In a similar vein (although specific to the North West), Northside’s ‘Shall we Take a Trip’ always induces the same sort of mood in me, having at one time been the theme tune to Granada Soccernight.

    But the song for me which best encapsulates the mood of joy generated by it being summer and there being a major tournament on and England - a vaguely likeable England team, no less - still being in it in the knockout stages, is – to return to almost where we started – the Lightning Seeds ‘other’ football song, Life of Riley. I’m fairly sure it wasn’t recorded as a football song, though don’t listen too hard and the lyrics could just be adapted for such purposes; but it was used for such a long time for Match of the Day’s ‘Goal of the Month’ section that for men of a certain age, this is the song which better than any other sums up the joyous side of football that got us watching the game in the first place. Besides, just watch the video. Just watch it. THAT is how I used to feel about football. I mentioned earlier that I am struggling to connect emotionally with football at the moment - but this song genuinely raises a lump in the throat for the way it used to make me feel. Perhaps there is hope for me yet.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCm3bS6wXvk
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,281

    I think they spelled Oxford wrong.

    Although is this news, all qualifications from Oxford and meaningless.

    An Oxford academic handed out a “meaningless” university qualification to a Hong Kong businessman with ties to the Chinese authorities at a high-profile ceremony in Shanghai last year, in the latest incident to raise concerns about Chinese influence on UK higher education.

    Alan Hudson awarded the title “Belt and Road Academician from Oxford University” to Chan King Wai, who is a member of an advisory body to China’s rubber-stamp parliament, at a ceremony attended by an official from the British consulate and dozens of other people.

    The belt and road initiative is a major foreign and economic policy project which has been at the heart of China’s increasingly assertive international presence under its president, Xi Jinping.

    Oxford University only gives a handful of honorary degrees at the Encaenia ceremony each year. Hudson, who has now retired from his position at Oxford, confirmed he had created the title given to Chan, and that it did not carry any official weight.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/16/how-fake-award-for-a-tycoon-left-oxford-university-open-to-chinese-influence

    Then there's this.

    The China Oxford Scholarship Fund (COSF) awards scholarships to students from the People’s Republic of China, Hong Kong and Macau who have won a place for postgraduate degree studies on a full-time basis at the University of Oxford. Up to twenty scholarships are awarded annually. Preference is given to those who are studying in the United Kingdom for the first time. Successful candidates are those of the highest calibre studying in any subject. They are chosen for their academic excellence, financial need, leadership quality and their commitment to contribute to the development of China.


    https://chinaoxford.org/

    Does anyone care about honorary degrees apart from the creeps and narcissists who award and receive them?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Re: royals attending football matches. Perhaps if the respective countries made a member of the Royal Family the President of their respective Football Associations...?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,692
    Latest Betfair Exchange odds:

    England 1.81
    Denmark 5.9
    Draw 3.55

    Correct score:

    England 1-0 Denmark: 6.2
    England 1-1 Denmark: 8
    England 2-0 Denmark: 8.4
    England 0-0 Denmark: 8.6

    To qualify:

    England 1.4
    Denmark 3.45

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/football/market/1.185039897
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271

    I think they spelled Oxford wrong.

    Although is this news, all qualifications from Oxford and meaningless.

    An Oxford academic handed out a “meaningless” university qualification to a Hong Kong businessman with ties to the Chinese authorities at a high-profile ceremony in Shanghai last year, in the latest incident to raise concerns about Chinese influence on UK higher education.

    Alan Hudson awarded the title “Belt and Road Academician from Oxford University” to Chan King Wai, who is a member of an advisory body to China’s rubber-stamp parliament, at a ceremony attended by an official from the British consulate and dozens of other people.

    The belt and road initiative is a major foreign and economic policy project which has been at the heart of China’s increasingly assertive international presence under its president, Xi Jinping.

    Oxford University only gives a handful of honorary degrees at the Encaenia ceremony each year. Hudson, who has now retired from his position at Oxford, confirmed he had created the title given to Chan, and that it did not carry any official weight.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/16/how-fake-award-for-a-tycoon-left-oxford-university-open-to-chinese-influence

    Then there's this.

    The China Oxford Scholarship Fund (COSF) awards scholarships to students from the People’s Republic of China, Hong Kong and Macau who have won a place for postgraduate degree studies on a full-time basis at the University of Oxford. Up to twenty scholarships are awarded annually. Preference is given to those who are studying in the United Kingdom for the first time. Successful candidates are those of the highest calibre studying in any subject. They are chosen for their academic excellence, financial need, leadership quality and their commitment to contribute to the development of China.


    https://chinaoxford.org/

    Does anyone care about honorary degrees apart from the creeps and narcissists who award and receive them?
    John Bercow does....and he definitely isn't a creep or a narcissist.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited July 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    Latest Betfair Exchange odds:

    England 1.81
    Denmark 5.9
    Draw 3.55

    Correct score:

    England 1-0 Denmark: 6.2
    England 1-1 Denmark: 8
    England 2-0 Denmark: 8.4
    England 0-0 Denmark: 8.6

    To qualify:

    England 1.4
    Denmark 3.45

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/football/market/1.185039897

    That price for Denmark is far too high. England aren't playing Denmark U18s....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    I've not been following the pandemic in any sort of detail. Just listening to the news and government spokespeople. While our vaccine program was purring like a Ferrari Europe's were limping along like a Lada Riva with a puncture. Tory poster's on here have been crowing about our ingenuity and delighting in our good fortune at being-dare I say it-BRITISH!

    1. FIRST in Europe for total number of cases.
    2. FIRST in Europe for total number of deaths.
    3. FIRST in Europe for total of NEW cases.
    4. FIRST in Europe for total number of NEW deaths.

    Roger, this is just total nonsense.
    1. France and Russia have both had more cases
    2. Russia has more deaths, on a per million analysis there are a host of countries ahead of us.
    3. Russia has more new cases. And we do massively more testing than anyone else.
    4. Total rubbish. In the last 7 days Italy, Germany and France (as well as Russia) have all had more deaths than us.

    Why do you write this stuff?
    I should perhaps have replaced 'Europe' with 'EU'. Had I done so the only number which is incorrect on YESTERDAY'S figures is France which had marginally more total cases than us.
    Which would also have been laughably wrong. We’re not in the EU. Perhaps you missed that evolution, as you fumbled with your Blackberry under your tartan blanket, trying to tune into the Home Service
    I am surprised that Brexiteers haven't insisted we go back to calling Radio 2 "The Home Service", which they can listen to on their new fangled "wireless", particularly enjoying the sublime commentary of John Arlott. When the odd run is scored they will applaud politely and mutter "hear hear" with their pipe of baccy clenched between their teeth, whilst thinking it is all jolly good that we are back in the 1950s with ration books and good old navy blue passports.
    I’ve met millions of Brexiteers of all stripes. From lunatic eco-Leavers to stereotypical chav Leavers to super-posh ducal Leavers. I’ve never met the archetype you describe here. Not once. I’m sure they exist outside your head, but they are rare

    The stereotype you do constantly encounter is the middle class, BBC watching, London based, Tuscany-going Remoaner who has been slightly unhinged by Brexit. You encounter them constantly and you can spot them a mile off. However they may be so conspicuous just because they are so hysterical on Twitter
    Clearly left your sense of humour by the pool today. I expected a wittier repost than that. Disappointing.

    Your somewhat desperate attempt to disassociate yourself from the BNP gorilla type leaver is understandable. What you can't get away from is that Farage (the person that convinced so many of you that we were being overrun by a tidal wave of immigrants - remember him?), fits that stereotype perfectly. You have probably overlooked that I used to be a Tory activist. I have met masses of them and there are sadly even more of them in the Tory party now as entryists from UKIP. Reactionary old farts who would love the UK to go back to the 1950s of their parents' youth. The obsession with navy blue passports was only one example of their stupidity. You are simply in denial. You know I am right. Perhaps you have a tweed jacket and a pipe yourself that you only use at weekends.
    Oh. You were trying to be FUNNY. Sorry

    Because it wasn’t remotely funny, as you have no sense of humour, it’s quite difficult to respond correctly, in these circumstances. Sorry

    In future perhaps you could start your ‘funny’ comments with some kind of clown face emoji, so I know to read your ‘funny’ remarks with a rictus grin of embarrassment on your behalf, before coughing up a tiny, forced little laugh like a lizard boaking a boll-weevil
    Oh dear, touched a raw nerve. Is the latest poor man's Dan Brown effort not going so well today? Had an unpleasant alien visitation on the khazi this morning, or is it that the realisation that in fact my caricature was in reality close to the bone regarding the company you keep? What a pathetically thin skin you uber-leave obsessives have, but then I guess it goes with the angry nationalist type personality. Keep taking the tablets Sean.
    "Poor man's Dan Brown" strikes me as harsh. I don't think I've ever read a more poorly-written book than the Da Vinci Code (it made Jeffrey Archer look like Dickens). Should PB's resident dildo-botherer ever turn his hands to literature I am sure he would be able to turn in a superior product.
    Indeed.
    Although what Dan Brown could/can do - and millions of writers can't - is come up with an exciting story.
    So much fiction is so very dull/implausible/dull and implausible. Often this is masked by a beautiful turn of phrase. But people who can turn a good phrase - or at least turn a phrase more elegantly than Dan Brown - are ten a penny. There are a fair few on this site. Very, very few people can think up a story worth reading.
    I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a compelling plot is the least of your worries if you're looking to write a decent novel. Writing it so it reads well is harder I think. Conveying character and emotion convincingly is hardest of all. I don't remember the Da Vinci Code having a particularly gripping plot either to be honest, it mostly seemed to consist of people running around. But I tend not to remember much about books, even good ones, after I've read them. They are a transitory pleasure for me. So all I really remember about the Da Vinci code was that it was shit.
    You're not the only literary critic with that verdict. I have happy memories of seeing this next to Rosslyn Chapel (one of the key venues in the book, I understand):

    https://www.alamy.com/horse-manure-for-sale-in-farm-beside-rosslyn-chapel-using-da-vinci-image6906998.html
    People should give Dan Brown a break.

    Fifteen or so years ago, I stayed at a North Yorkshire B&B. I hadn't read the Da Vinci Code, and was very sniffy about it (*). They had a late-teenage daughter who, at breakfast, had her nose deep in the book. As we chatted, she said it was the first book she had ever read, she was gripped, and she wanted to read more books.

    Yes, it is crummy. Yes, it is poorly written. But if it acts as a gateway to literature for people put off from reading at school, then it's brilliant.

    (*) In fact, the first time I ever read a Dan Brown book was when I picked up a copy at a remote bothy; I read it, and left it at another bothy a few days later.
    In fairness that is also true.

    I can't bear Harry Potter - there is something that creeps me out utterly about it (perhaps more to do with me tbf). I bought the first book by mistake, so to speak (trying out a new local writer back in 1995 or so), and dumped it on a friend. Who was absolutely delighted with me for giving her little girl so much enjoyment. More generally I've been told by other friends it has helped encourage childrten to read.
    It's much better than Blyton or Brown. I read it to my sons as it came out, but disjointedly (because other people were reading it to them) so as with the film Dr Zhivago I've probably seen the whole thing, but never in sequence.

    I am astonished at its success, I thought the market for drivel about fantasy boarding school life was dead as a dodo by the time orwell wrote about it.
    I think it was just one of those things that made it at the right time. They are certainly not great literature, but they keep you turning the page to find out what happens. The early books have a cosy, famous five/scooby doo feel to them. Shit gets real when Voldemort returns and we see a character die (as does Harry). After that the books are longer, grittier and more adult. There are some great themes - magic vs muggles, hatred and intolerance defeated by love and friendship. Sure they are massively derivative, but isn't everything ultimately?
    They also are meant to be enjoyed at the age the characters are too.
    To write a series which appeals to 11 yo to start, and 17 to finish shouldn't be underestimated.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,692
    A lot of other British universities have also become dependent on Chinese money/students.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    Adverts in the Tour irk me.
    Especially when halfway through the second ascent of Mont Ventoux.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,596
    Cookie said:

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    I notice nobody is playing the official England Euro 2020 anthem....that contains the N word....
    Don't hate or @ me but Three Lions and Vindaloo are songs are rubbish songs.

    Give me World In Motion any day.
    Yes, I agree.

    I can’t help feeling a sense of slight if-only about the ubiquity of ‘Football’s Coming Home’. I yield to no-one in my admiration of Ian Broudie’s songwriting ability; indeed, ‘Football’s Coming Home’ is uniquely brilliant in the context of football songs. Its brilliance lies in its ambivalence: it’s not triumphant: it’s about disappointment rather than triumph, and indeed the version released for 2018 started with a long rant from Alan Shearer on the awfulness of the team. The video is full of images of failure: Gareth Southgate’s penalty miss, Frank Lampard’s disallowed goal, players collapsing to the turf, spent, beaten exhausted. Of course, this is just the set-up to the rest of the song, and it gets rather more optimistic from there, but the general theme of the song is about hope despite repeated disappointment. Plus – while, as I said, I think the song is brilliant: genuinely lump-in-the-throat stuff for an Englishman of a certain age – the melody is, well, a little melancholy for the situation right now when England is actually in the semi-final and is fans might allow themsleves a little lightness of spirit (I was going to say optimism, but it’s far too early for optimism).
    #
    So I have been considering my alternative England major tournament soundtrack. The obvious choice, of course, is ‘World in Motion’, which remains the greatest football song of all time. Consider this: when it was released, the inimitable ‘Back Home’ was 20 years old and, while splendid, felt like it came from another era – musically, it isn’t so very unlike the theme tune from Dad’s Army. ‘World in Motion’ is now 31 years old and hasn’t dated a day. It still retains the glorious summeriness of the 1990 World Cup, too. If I could make one minor quibble, it is that ‘going round the back’ is no longer the one-way to beat them; for this tournament other approaches have been more successful. But to uphold that quibble really would be to stretch pedantry to breaking point.

    ... (cont - have been foiled in my excitment at the opportunit to discuss football/pop music crossovers by word-count limits...)
    It's called Three Lions!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,883
    edited July 2021
    kamski said:



    That's pretty good going. Germany seems to be showing signs of vaccine hesitancy with numbers vaccinated daily falling the last couple of weeks, despite vaccine deliveries being up a bit. Either that or it's doctors going on their summer holidays (my GP's practice is closed for 2 weeks so no vaccinations happening there...).

    Hopefully the latter, I think England has hit the vaccine demand wall. We're going to maybe do another couple of million first doses over the next 4-6 weeks.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,596

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest Betfair Exchange odds:

    England 1.81
    Denmark 5.9
    Draw 3.55

    Correct score:

    England 1-0 Denmark: 6.2
    England 1-1 Denmark: 8
    England 2-0 Denmark: 8.4
    England 0-0 Denmark: 8.6

    To qualify:

    England 1.4
    Denmark 3.45

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/football/market/1.185039897

    That price for Denmark is far too high. England aren't playing Denmark U18s....
    I have them at 3.65.

    Utterly ludicrous.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,903

    Cookie said:

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    I notice nobody is playing the official England Euro 2020 anthem....that contains the N word....
    Don't hate or @ me but Three Lions and Vindaloo are songs are rubbish songs.

    Give me World In Motion any day.
    Yes, I agree.

    I can’t help feeling a sense of slight if-only about the ubiquity of ‘Football’s Coming Home’. I yield to no-one in my admiration of Ian Broudie’s songwriting ability; indeed, ‘Football’s Coming Home’ is uniquely brilliant in the context of football songs. Its brilliance lies in its ambivalence: it’s not triumphant: it’s about disappointment rather than triumph, and indeed the version released for 2018 started with a long rant from Alan Shearer on the awfulness of the team. The video is full of images of failure: Gareth Southgate’s penalty miss, Frank Lampard’s disallowed goal, players collapsing to the turf, spent, beaten exhausted. Of course, this is just the set-up to the rest of the song, and it gets rather more optimistic from there, but the general theme of the song is about hope despite repeated disappointment. Plus – while, as I said, I think the song is brilliant: genuinely lump-in-the-throat stuff for an Englishman of a certain age – the melody is, well, a little melancholy for the situation right now when England is actually in the semi-final and is fans might allow themsleves a little lightness of spirit (I was going to say optimism, but it’s far too early for optimism).
    #
    So I have been considering my alternative England major tournament soundtrack. The obvious choice, of course, is ‘World in Motion’, which remains the greatest football song of all time. Consider this: when it was released, the inimitable ‘Back Home’ was 20 years old and, while splendid, felt like it came from another era – musically, it isn’t so very unlike the theme tune from Dad’s Army. ‘World in Motion’ is now 31 years old and hasn’t dated a day. It still retains the glorious summeriness of the 1990 World Cup, too. If I could make one minor quibble, it is that ‘going round the back’ is no longer the one-way to beat them; for this tournament other approaches have been more successful. But to uphold that quibble really would be to stretch pedantry to breaking point.

    ... (cont - have been foiled in my excitment at the opportunit to discuss football/pop music crossovers by word-count limits...)
    It's called Three Lions!
    Ha, yes, fair point! In my slight defence, 1) I was over-excited (hence three posts on the subject) and 2) "Football's Coming Home" is the refrain indelibly burned into my brain, not least due to repeated Whatsapp messages from my wife's cousin on the subject.
    I say 'on the subject', most of them simply say "It's coming home" or "Football's coming home".
    I think he started drinking about four hours ago.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,560

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    I notice nobody is playing the official England Euro 2020 anthem....that contains the N word....
    Don't hate or @ me but Three Lions and Vindaloo are songs are rubbish songs.

    Give me World In Motion any day.
    Back Home for me
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    https://twitter.com/Mark_J_Harper/status/1412787809082032138

    Told you so…

    …buried deep in a Govt document released Monday, they confirm the intention to renew emergency Coronavirus Act powers through the winter.

    What happened to “irreversible”?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    I think they spelled Oxford wrong.

    Although is this news, all qualifications from Oxford and meaningless.

    An Oxford academic handed out a “meaningless” university qualification to a Hong Kong businessman with ties to the Chinese authorities at a high-profile ceremony in Shanghai last year, in the latest incident to raise concerns about Chinese influence on UK higher education.

    Alan Hudson awarded the title “Belt and Road Academician from Oxford University” to Chan King Wai, who is a member of an advisory body to China’s rubber-stamp parliament, at a ceremony attended by an official from the British consulate and dozens of other people.

    The belt and road initiative is a major foreign and economic policy project which has been at the heart of China’s increasingly assertive international presence under its president, Xi Jinping.

    Oxford University only gives a handful of honorary degrees at the Encaenia ceremony each year. Hudson, who has now retired from his position at Oxford, confirmed he had created the title given to Chan, and that it did not carry any official weight.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/16/how-fake-award-for-a-tycoon-left-oxford-university-open-to-chinese-influence

    Then there's this.

    The China Oxford Scholarship Fund (COSF) awards scholarships to students from the People’s Republic of China, Hong Kong and Macau who have won a place for postgraduate degree studies on a full-time basis at the University of Oxford. Up to twenty scholarships are awarded annually. Preference is given to those who are studying in the United Kingdom for the first time. Successful candidates are those of the highest calibre studying in any subject. They are chosen for their academic excellence, financial need, leadership quality and their commitment to contribute to the development of China.


    https://chinaoxford.org/

    Does anyone care about honorary degrees apart from the creeps and narcissists who award and receive them?
    Don't say that on this board! OGH has two - one from Cambridge, and one from Oxford. (True.)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,596
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    I notice nobody is playing the official England Euro 2020 anthem....that contains the N word....
    Don't hate or @ me but Three Lions and Vindaloo are songs are rubbish songs.

    Give me World In Motion any day.
    Yes, I agree.

    I can’t help feeling a sense of slight if-only about the ubiquity of ‘Football’s Coming Home’. I yield to no-one in my admiration of Ian Broudie’s songwriting ability; indeed, ‘Football’s Coming Home’ is uniquely brilliant in the context of football songs. Its brilliance lies in its ambivalence: it’s not triumphant: it’s about disappointment rather than triumph, and indeed the version released for 2018 started with a long rant from Alan Shearer on the awfulness of the team. The video is full of images of failure: Gareth Southgate’s penalty miss, Frank Lampard’s disallowed goal, players collapsing to the turf, spent, beaten exhausted. Of course, this is just the set-up to the rest of the song, and it gets rather more optimistic from there, but the general theme of the song is about hope despite repeated disappointment. Plus – while, as I said, I think the song is brilliant: genuinely lump-in-the-throat stuff for an Englishman of a certain age – the melody is, well, a little melancholy for the situation right now when England is actually in the semi-final and is fans might allow themsleves a little lightness of spirit (I was going to say optimism, but it’s far too early for optimism).
    #
    So I have been considering my alternative England major tournament soundtrack. The obvious choice, of course, is ‘World in Motion’, which remains the greatest football song of all time. Consider this: when it was released, the inimitable ‘Back Home’ was 20 years old and, while splendid, felt like it came from another era – musically, it isn’t so very unlike the theme tune from Dad’s Army. ‘World in Motion’ is now 31 years old and hasn’t dated a day. It still retains the glorious summeriness of the 1990 World Cup, too. If I could make one minor quibble, it is that ‘going round the back’ is no longer the one-way to beat them; for this tournament other approaches have been more successful. But to uphold that quibble really would be to stretch pedantry to breaking point.

    ... (cont - have been foiled in my excitment at the opportunit to discuss football/pop music crossovers by word-count limits...)
    It's called Three Lions!
    Ha, yes, fair point! In my slight defence, 1) I was over-excited (hence three posts on the subject) and 2) "Football's Coming Home" is the refrain indelibly burned into my brain, not least due to repeated Whatsapp messages from my wife's cousin on the subject.
    I say 'on the subject', most of them simply say "It's coming home" or "Football's coming home".
    I think he started drinking about four hours ago.
    :D
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,692
    Leon said:

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    Supermarket tannoys have gone downhill in recent years - now full of cheap irritating songs (even if they annoy a couple of prickly people from Glasgow in this case) wheras once they fascinating to hear which underling employee needed to report to the managers office for a good telling off (or maybe something else if Mike Hancock was in charge). Then you would see some poor downtrodden worker scuttle off embarrassed past the aisles of beans and whisper to them "good luck mate "
    ‘Supermarket tannoys have gone downhill in recent years’ is Peak PB in a brilliant way I don’t understand

    I love, for instance, the implication that for a long while ‘supermarket tannoys’ remained consistently and surprisingly excellent, like the paintings of the Dutch Golden Age
    I can't remember a time when they weren't irritating. A lot of people probably don't go to supermarkets these days.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,903
    Leon said:

    No grievance too trivial:

    TESCO has been accused of pouring “salt in the wounds” of Scottish football fans after playing an English supporters’ anthem from the store tannoy.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19424576.tesco-rubs-salt-wounds-scotland-football-fans-english-anthem/

    Supermarket tannoys have gone downhill in recent years - now full of cheap irritating songs (even if they annoy a couple of prickly people from Glasgow in this case) wheras once they fascinating to hear which underling employee needed to report to the managers office for a good telling off (or maybe something else if Mike Hancock was in charge). Then you would see some poor downtrodden worker scuttle off embarrassed past the aisles of beans and whisper to them "good luck mate "
    ‘Supermarket tannoys have gone downhill in recent years’ is Peak PB in a brilliant way I don’t understand

    I love, for instance, the implication that for a long while ‘supermarket tannoys’ remained consistently and surprisingly excellent, like the paintings of the Dutch Golden Age
    Post of the day.

    Maybe we could change the subtext of the site from "The web's premier resource for political betting" to "we feel surprisingly strongly about everything."
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/Mark_J_Harper/status/1412787809082032138

    Told you so…

    …buried deep in a Govt document released Monday, they confirm the intention to renew emergency Coronavirus Act powers through the winter.

    What happened to “irreversible”?

    That's up to labour. Not Harper.

    Labour's main policy is envy. They don't want to change anything but the identity of the backsides on the seats.

    At the next election, there may be parties that will offer you no lockdowns again, ever. Under any circumstances. Liberty above all

    That won't be any of the main parties, though.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,903
    32548,33,386

    Rather less than I was fearing for a Wednesday.

    Still holding on to my call that Greater Manchester has peaked.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    32k...33...386
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,504
    rcs1000 said:

    I think they spelled Oxford wrong.

    Although is this news, all qualifications from Oxford and meaningless.

    An Oxford academic handed out a “meaningless” university qualification to a Hong Kong businessman with ties to the Chinese authorities at a high-profile ceremony in Shanghai last year, in the latest incident to raise concerns about Chinese influence on UK higher education.

    Alan Hudson awarded the title “Belt and Road Academician from Oxford University” to Chan King Wai, who is a member of an advisory body to China’s rubber-stamp parliament, at a ceremony attended by an official from the British consulate and dozens of other people.

    The belt and road initiative is a major foreign and economic policy project which has been at the heart of China’s increasingly assertive international presence under its president, Xi Jinping.

    Oxford University only gives a handful of honorary degrees at the Encaenia ceremony each year. Hudson, who has now retired from his position at Oxford, confirmed he had created the title given to Chan, and that it did not carry any official weight.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/16/how-fake-award-for-a-tycoon-left-oxford-university-open-to-chinese-influence

    Then there's this.

    The China Oxford Scholarship Fund (COSF) awards scholarships to students from the People’s Republic of China, Hong Kong and Macau who have won a place for postgraduate degree studies on a full-time basis at the University of Oxford. Up to twenty scholarships are awarded annually. Preference is given to those who are studying in the United Kingdom for the first time. Successful candidates are those of the highest calibre studying in any subject. They are chosen for their academic excellence, financial need, leadership quality and their commitment to contribute to the development of China.


    https://chinaoxford.org/

    Does anyone care about honorary degrees apart from the creeps and narcissists who award and receive them?
    Don't say that on this board! OGH has two - one from Cambridge, and one from Oxford. (True.)
    His winnings have endowed not one, but two chairs in comparative psephology ?
    Legendary.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/Mark_J_Harper/status/1412787809082032138

    Told you so…

    …buried deep in a Govt document released Monday, they confirm the intention to renew emergency Coronavirus Act powers through the winter.

    What happened to “irreversible”?

    I would have been more worried if it was truly 'irreversible'. Need to keep as many options open as possible and we don't know what position we are going to be in a few months time.

    Hopefully everything goes smoothly through the rest of summer and into autumn so that our winter situation is a good one to be in but we just don't know right now.

    Only a brain dead government would rule anything out right now.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    Cookie said:

    32548,33,386

    Rather less than I was fearing for a Wednesday.

    Still holding on to my call that Greater Manchester has peaked.

    While they're not massively concerning yet, the number of people in hospital continues to rise at a fair clip - and we're not seeing "down days" any more. In England, they jumped to 2,144 today - which is a doubling every three weeks.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Covid case numbers - interesting to note that the percentage growth on the seven day rolling total is starting to fall again.
This discussion has been closed.