I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Should young people who have not had the opportunity to take both jabs yet be given the chance to remain on furlough until the time that they have been given that chance if they work in settings such as nightclubs ?
BBC Politics @BBCPolitics · 20m Kim Leadbeater, the newly-elected Labour MP for Batley and Spen, is sworn in as a member of Parliament
If Kim Leadbeater had a surname pronounced "Lead better" would she be a contender for the next Labour leadership election? Or perhaps leddership election?
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Not an antitvaxxer but I have missed club nights at Poptastic and The Village in general.
I thought I was an introvert when I was younger and I realised over time that I was very much not, just didn't have a lot of social skills.
But like any other skill, practice and time can improve anything. I am now at a point where I can see the benefits, certainly in software engineering I progress a lot faster with those skills.
I was initially very happy WFH but over the last few months I have become tired of it and I want to go back to the office and see people. The pub is getting me through.
I am sold on WFH + office but I am not sold on WFH forever.
Interesting idea.
What social skills did you develop, and how did you go about developing them?
Well the very basic ones, rather embarrassing really. Knowing what to say, getting on with anyone etc.
In all honesty just forcing yourself to meet lots of people is how you do it. Then you gain confidence as you quickly realise it doesn't really matter what you say. It's not fun at first, I used to go bright red in the face but now I take it all in my stride.
At some point you just really stop caring what people think of you - and then you can do mostly anything. It's interesting now to witness others who I imagine deal with what I used to, I meet quite a lot of them in my profession.
Anyone can do it, it's just a skill you have to work on.
Thanks for answering! I imagine a lot of PBers might struggle with the same things.
When I was 18 my "year off" was taking a succession of temporary jobs - each between one and three weeks. So every month a couple of times I would walk into a place with completely new people. Whether in an office, building site, removals company, delivery, etc. Was pretty daunting at first but after a while you get used to it. Did a huge amount for my confidence, etc. Helped to make me the arrogant git I am today.
Also meant that although I had missed out on the experience of building a school in Laos I could take a Triumph Spitfire Mk III to Uni with me. (Sozza Dura.)
Anger.
My university cars were a Renault 5 Gordini (the first car I ever did 100mph in), a 2CV Fourgonnette with 680cc barrels and a 3 bar 'Belgian' grill (wish I still had this) and finally a Mk.1 GTI that was lowered, had no interior trim or rear brakes to save weight and a forged MoT pass.
Mini Clubman estate. The car you used surprisingly often to see on the M6 with 4 nuns in it. A curiously unnerving sight.
Not that anyone cares but an Austin A40, followed by a Vauxhall Viva.
Re the A40 I had to take the rubber bungs out of the floor because of the amount of water that came through the windscreen, the headlights fell out through rust and I had to start it with a starting handle.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
The one situation i am uncomfortable is gigs. Several 1000 people all rammed together indoors in sweaty environment all screaming and shouting.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
OT, I see the government's latest legislation is on the verge of destroying the lifestyle of the last remnants of the New Age Traveller movement. Incredibly short-sighted, as well as completely contrary to any supposed libertarian principle, because these people are also a crucial interface between the broader gypsy and traveller world and the settled world - probably the only one.
Only a few hours to wait I know, but has anything been suggested about what "normal" looks like with regards to work from home? Last summer they tried very hard to force people into the office so that people can go back to draining their income into the pockets of the train company, twatty coffee shacks and all of the other things that so any people no longer miss.
Is the advice for the 19th to ditch your mask, and get up close and personal with someone's armpit on the central line like in the good old days? You need to spend at least £10 a day in Costbucks for the public good etc.
Would the "no need for masks" edict be happening if the likes of Jenrick had to commute next to someone's armpit instead of in the back of a government Jag?
Does anyone have a link to the latest estimate of seropositivity in the UK - what percentage of the population have antibodies to coronavirus, whether from vaccine or infection?
Thanks. I was trying to find roughly how many in the UK do not have antibodies, and hence a guesstimate of what the pool for infection with Delta is. The figures JLilburne gave of for adults only, and oddly that number is below the number having received one or more shot.
I am guessing that a fair number of under-18s now have been exposed.
There's a (deliberate) lag in my figures. My "immunes" for 8 June is the number of people double jabbed by 25 May, to allow them the 2 weeks to build up a decent level of immunity.
Does anyone have a link to the latest estimate of seropositivity in the UK - what percentage of the population have antibodies to coronavirus, whether from vaccine or infection?
The data from blood donors is in the weekly report:
"approximately 84.2% of blood donors aged 17 and over have antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 from either infection or vaccination, compared to 14.9% from infection alone."
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
The one situation i am uncomfortable is gigs. Several 1000 people all rammed together indoors in sweaty environment all screaming and shouting.
Uncomfortable for whom? Yourself or society and the spread of Covid?
If the former then of course that is not an issue - don't go; if the latter then at this stage of Covid progression I'm failing to see the huge issue. Plus it's not everyone sweating over everyone. It's everyone sweating, etc over the 20 people next to them.
And for "several 1000 people" isn't that big enough so that people are seated? Perhaps Glasto is an exception.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
Going ahead is a political decision. But it may not just be in the interests of the PM to do so, but also for the country. Lockdown is a blunt tool that has massive negative consequences. The moment those consequences start outweighing the consequences of covid, we need to remove as many restrictions as possible.
I have some sympathy with your view about nightclubs. But that's a bit of an edge case, compared to (say) the restrictions in pubs, gyms etc.
Re your last paragraph: "don't behave like irresponsible prannocks' has been a message throughout this crisis. At least, few, if any, people in power have been saying: "behave like a prannock!'. A problem is that many people *have* been behaving (IMV) like a prannock, either because they do not care, lack knowledge, not just that their own personal risk evaluation is different from mine. Indeed, some may see my own cautious approach as being a bit prannocky.
I'm not sure what's worse: the lucky February coincidence or that they've not even had to wait six months before copping the big'un.
Isn't there a conspiracy theory that bonds purchased more recently do better? I haven't bothered buying any, but if interest rates don't go back to something like pre-COVID by Christmas then I might. But then I guess there has to be a real chance that the government slashes NS&I rates.
had a £1000 worth for seven years and did not win a thing. The odds on that were about 2% . Whilst I get that ERNIE does not select tickets as such but numbers that are then matched to current bonds list , with that apparent luck I had doubts in my mid my numbers were active so sold out. Probably irrational as maybe I was just very unlucky but no point in playing something if you are not convinced yourself you are in the game!
I was given £5 worth when I was born, 43 years ago. Still got £5 worth. Haven't won a dickie bird. Might as well just let it sit there and continue to depreciate. I think I've got more chance of being struck by lightning than winning anything.
I have the max and get something every month, usually a 25 or 2 X 25. Spookily this year I've had a 1000 and a 100 despite payout rates having allegedly reduced. The system seems rigged in favour of those who can max out.
I was gifted a few pounds worth at birth. Then, when I was 8, I had a win. £25 which was massive then, esp for an 8 yo. Instead of buying a years supply of sweets or a top notch train set - which I could have done - I opted to reinvest the whole sum in more premium bonds. Sort of boy I was. The sort to make his parents proud. Have not had a win since.
They look like a tory scam on the poor. Owning a handful is like buying lottery tickets except that the payouts suck, while owning the full monty has paid me north of 2% this year already, and it's July.
It's meant to be random (I think?) so that shouldn't be the case. If you've been getting that sort of yield on the max holding, year after year, it does seem a bit fishy, but perhaps you've just been lucky.
I don't buy that you are any worse off owning a handful than owning the full whack. The rate of return is the same.
Yep, over the very very long run. I'll be leaving them (my £55) to my son and one day he'll get a £25. Maybe another in his lifetime. Then HIS son - since it's a man thing, this - will pick it up, £105 now, and he'll get 3 or 4 wins. And so on and so forth. The yield will slowly but surely tend to the benchmark.
I have always thought it would be nice to have an occasional pay out similar to Premium Bonds for taxation. Yes it would lead to whining about the rich getting richer, but what a great incentive to pay your fair level of tax, knowing there was small chance that the more you paid the greater the chance you could get a pay out!
Creative and has merit. But just imagine if George Osborne won. Or Piers Morgan. Or that bloke who owns Pimlico Plumbers. You'd need to block those types out in some way.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
The one situation i am uncomfortable is gigs. Several 1000 people all rammed together indoors in sweaty environment all screaming and shouting.
Yes, the kind of gigs I go to are best described as death by sweat. Have booked to see Alestorm (twice) in December, other November / December dates for other bands in consideration and hopeful that we can all go and have silly fun again.
I have no desire for restrictions to stay other than the sad reality that I think we still need some until we have mass vaccination across all age groups and an understanding as to how mutations perform against the vaccinations we have.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Not an antitvaxxer but I have missed club nights at Poptastic and The Village in general.
They play some proper 80s choons.
Then you will be fine. If a slightly sad old man out of place.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
The PM seems to be on the same page as the Chief Medical Officer, the Chief Scientific Officer, and Public Health England, all of whom seem pretty sanguine about the present situation.
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
Mistakes happen, but when you do make one, be gracious about it and make it right. Sounds like that is not the way for the local plod there. Presumably she was not the right kind of person to attract media attention (thinking about the recent murder case of Sarah Everard?)
I thought I was an introvert when I was younger and I realised over time that I was very much not, just didn't have a lot of social skills.
But like any other skill, practice and time can improve anything. I am now at a point where I can see the benefits, certainly in software engineering I progress a lot faster with those skills.
I was initially very happy WFH but over the last few months I have become tired of it and I want to go back to the office and see people. The pub is getting me through.
I am sold on WFH + office but I am not sold on WFH forever.
Interesting idea.
What social skills did you develop, and how did you go about developing them?
Well the very basic ones, rather embarrassing really. Knowing what to say, getting on with anyone etc.
In all honesty just forcing yourself to meet lots of people is how you do it. Then you gain confidence as you quickly realise it doesn't really matter what you say. It's not fun at first, I used to go bright red in the face but now I take it all in my stride.
At some point you just really stop caring what people think of you - and then you can do mostly anything. It's interesting now to witness others who I imagine deal with what I used to, I meet quite a lot of them in my profession.
Anyone can do it, it's just a skill you have to work on.
Thanks for answering! I imagine a lot of PBers might struggle with the same things.
When I was 18 my "year off" was taking a succession of temporary jobs - each between one and three weeks. So every month a couple of times I would walk into a place with completely new people. Whether in an office, building site, removals company, delivery, etc. Was pretty daunting at first but after a while you get used to it. Did a huge amount for my confidence, etc. Helped to make me the arrogant git I am today.
Also meant that although I had missed out on the experience of building a school in Laos I could take a Triumph Spitfire Mk III to Uni with me. (Sozza Dura.)
Anger.
My university cars were a Renault 5 Gordini (the first car I ever did 100mph in), a 2CV Fourgonnette with 680cc barrels and a 3 bar 'Belgian' grill (wish I still had this) and finally a Mk.1 GTI that was lowered, had no interior trim or rear brakes to save weight and a forged MoT pass.
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
There is a great docuseries on Netflix - Flint Town (https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80156688) . Is very interesting and in particular deals specifically with "defunding the police" which is not what people think it is.
I'm not sure what's worse: the lucky February coincidence or that they've not even had to wait six months before copping the big'un.
Isn't there a conspiracy theory that bonds purchased more recently do better? I haven't bothered buying any, but if interest rates don't go back to something like pre-COVID by Christmas then I might. But then I guess there has to be a real chance that the government slashes NS&I rates.
had a £1000 worth for seven years and did not win a thing. The odds on that were about 2% . Whilst I get that ERNIE does not select tickets as such but numbers that are then matched to current bonds list , with that apparent luck I had doubts in my mid my numbers were active so sold out. Probably irrational as maybe I was just very unlucky but no point in playing something if you are not convinced yourself you are in the game!
I was given £5 worth when I was born, 43 years ago. Still got £5 worth. Haven't won a dickie bird. Might as well just let it sit there and continue to depreciate. I think I've got more chance of being struck by lightning than winning anything.
I have the max and get something every month, usually a 25 or 2 X 25. Spookily this year I've had a 1000 and a 100 despite payout rates having allegedly reduced. The system seems rigged in favour of those who can max out.
I was gifted a few pounds worth at birth. Then, when I was 8, I had a win. £25 which was massive then, esp for an 8 yo. Instead of buying a years supply of sweets or a top notch train set - which I could have done - I opted to reinvest the whole sum in more premium bonds. Sort of boy I was. The sort to make his parents proud. Have not had a win since.
They look like a tory scam on the poor. Owning a handful is like buying lottery tickets except that the payouts suck, while owning the full monty has paid me north of 2% this year already, and it's July.
It's meant to be random (I think?) so that shouldn't be the case. If you've been getting that sort of yield on the max holding, year after year, it does seem a bit fishy, but perhaps you've just been lucky.
I don't buy that you are any worse off owning a handful than owning the full whack. The rate of return is the same.
Yep, over the very very long run. I'll be leaving them (my £55) to my son and one day he'll get a £25. Maybe another in his lifetime. Then HIS son - since it's a man thing, this - will pick it up, £105 now, and he'll get 3 or 4 wins. And so on and so forth. The yield will slowly but surely tend to the benchmark.
I have always thought it would be nice to have an occasional pay out similar to Premium Bonds for taxation. Yes it would lead to whining about the rich getting richer, but what a great incentive to pay your fair level of tax, knowing there was small chance that the more you paid the greater the chance you could get a pay out!
This happened in Taiwan. In order to get shops to charge sales tax, there was a standardised, nationwide receipt. With a unique number for every shop visit. At the end of the month numbers were drawn on TV. If you had the correct last 3 numbers you won a prize.(100 NT ISTR. About £2,50, It was 20 years ago) Last 4 1000 NT, Last 5 10000, etc. Correct full number was tens of millions. Every home had a plastic bag full of receipts, and you'd see families going through piles of paper. It was actually irrelevant how much you spent. Too complex. Never won very much. But won summat every other month or so.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
There is a great docuseries on Netflix - Flint Town (https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80156688) . Is very interesting and in particular deals specifically with "defunding the police" which is not what people think it is.
I get that defund the police doesn't mean what most (certainly in the UK) think it means, but to me that just makes it an ill thought out phrase.
@Cookie nah everyone hates wearing masks, even the most vegan wokeista
Yes, that's my impression. So I think the numbers who actually keep wearing masks even when they're not compelled to will be rather lower than those who say that they will.
There is definitely a divide between maskers and non-maskers in my experience ... perfectly rational people, who ought to know better, are still terrified. It's not as obvious as Remainers versus Leavers but that's as close a proxy as any. Call it Collectivism versus Individualism - those who believe in big government and are happy to be ordered around versus those who don't.
If you terrify the population, they will tend toward big government for protection. As I've said before, unterrifying the population after 18 months of relentless doom-mongering is going to be very, very hard ... and I'm not even sure the government wants to do it, not really - they have got used to a cowed and compliant populace, which is awfully convenient when you have unpopular climate change restrictions to impose (not to mention tax rises to pay for COVID). No, I reckon the government will be quite happy to have a collectivist, all-in-it-together mindset around for quite a while.
I was glad to see finally some discussion on here last night about the devastating, insidious impact of the behavioural psychologists during COVID ... they really have grasped the opportunity for relevance and power and they are not going to give it up easily - we need to shine a light much more harshly on who they are and what they are up to. The fact we have far-left political activists in an official capacity advising the government on how to make people comply with COVID restrictions is extremely worrying.
I've recommended Laura Dodsworth's book before and I do it again. It is a sickening read.
You're over-politicising it. There's a rational discussion (much of which we've seen on PB) about the right balance between enjoyment and risk-taking, and the Government has a difficult choice in steering us through, as to be fair would any Government.
I'm not a fan of the Government, but nor am I convinced they are motivated by collectivism (Boris Johnson??? Pull the other one), control-freakery or anything on those lines. The risk of relaxing too quickly is that you get a lot of illness and later end up having to tighten up again. The risk of relaxing too slowly is that you inhibit normal life and the economy more than you needed to. All the stuff about wanting a cowed population is frankly irrelevant paranoia.
As for the obsession with Susan Michie's political views, she's been asked to do a professional job advising on behaviourism, which is her profession. She's not been asked to advise on politics, nor is she doing so. We shouldn't care how she or anyone on SAGE votes.
With respect, Nick, as a left of centre politician you would say that wouldn't you? Psychology as a discipline, rather like economics, cannot be separated from the political beliefs of the practitioners - it is a heavily opinion-based pseudo science. And the vast majority of behavioural psychologist's are of the left politically.
I'm just looking for balance. There is no doubt that the government was persuaded that it had to terrify the whole population in order to gain compliance - this is documented fact. I find that unethical and reprehensible. I also disagree with the political trade-off between the short term objectives and the longer term damage that is being done to the mental health of the young and to the finances of the nation. And finally, I find it unconscionable that that there has been, apparently, no thought about how to exit this situation and return to normality.
The government reaction to COVID has been a massive over-reaction. That fact of the matter is that for most people this is a mild infection. I don't believe the conspiracy theories ... I just think that weak politicians made poor decisions based on biased advice. And having made those poor decisions, the politicians, because they are weak, continue to double down; they appear incapable of changing the policy or the narrative.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
Going ahead is a political decision. But it may not just be in the interests of the PM to do so, but also for the country. Lockdown is a blunt tool that has massive negative consequences. The moment those consequences start outweighing the consequences of covid, we need to remove as many restrictions as possible.
I have some sympathy with your view about nightclubs. But that's a bit of an edge case, compared to (say) the restrictions in pubs, gyms etc.
Re your last paragraph: "don't behave like irresponsible prannocks' has been a message throughout this crisis. At least, few, if any, people in power have been saying: "behave like a prannock!'. A problem is that many people *have* been behaving (IMV) like a prannock, either because they do not care, lack knowledge, not just that their own personal risk evaluation is different from mine. Indeed, some may see my own cautious approach as being a bit prannocky.
So on that latter point isn't it obvious that "use your common sense" is a big problem. Many of us lack it for certain situations (or in general), most of us are clueless about viruses, and we're now being told its all over, FREEDOM DAY, dump your mask its safe. Yes, that may not be the exact words from ministers. But that is what people are hearing and have been for a while.
"You do not need to wear a mask, I won't be, eeh aren't they uncomfortable" is an example of prannock behaviour.
I have been browsing this thread and really appreciate the input by those explaining the science and calculations which no doubt reflect the view of the scientists advising HMG
I have to say I am weary of the media's go to experts who are largely members of the zero covid/elimination anti HMG iSage or the equally near hysterical BMA who have now introduced the argument that long covid is a serious issue and they they are under playing the second dose vaccination rate at 50% rather than 63.8% today
I am of the opinion that should Chris Whitty, Patrick Valllance and JVT support Boris today then whatever he announces is OK by me and we just need to accept that we have to live with covid as we live with flu
It is significant that you rarely hear these three scientists expressing their opinions in the media, which leaves the field open to those others who are simply not challenged by the media
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
There is a great docuseries on Netflix - Flint Town (https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80156688) . Is very interesting and in particular deals specifically with "defunding the police" which is not what people think it is.
I get that defund the police doesn't mean what most (certainly in the UK) think it means, but to me that just makes it an ill thought out phrase.
Yes perhaps but it is a phrase which has a particular meaning (in the US) and hence has been imported as shorthand for what people want it to mean.
In fact it is the locals agreeing (or not) the police dept's funding tax in any year.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
I am going to find it interesting what happens if mask wearing is no longer mandated as the law (in shops and transport etc). I hate the damn things, especially in pubs, but I would not be that averse to wearing them as a courtesy. However I am a herd animal. I found it really hard to wear one at the start when they were about to be brought in as no-one else was wearing them. So if the herd stops, I suspect I will too.
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
There is a great docuseries on Netflix - Flint Town (https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80156688) . Is very interesting and in particular deals specifically with "defunding the police" which is not what people think it is.
I get that defund the police doesn't mean what most (certainly in the UK) think it means, but to me that just makes it an ill thought out phrase.
Yes perhaps but it is a phrase which has a particular meaning (in the US) and hence has been imported as shorthand for what people want it to mean.
In fact it is the locals agreeing (or not) the police dept's funding tax in any year.
It is in large part rethinking what we expect of and mandate the police to do, particularly with regard to what some might think should really be the responsibility of mental health, health (addiction), social workers (domestic disputes) or housing departments (the homeless), none of which most police departments are trained or equipped to deal with, and all of which frequently result in the police resorting to force when they feel threatened.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
BBC Politics @BBCPolitics · 20m Kim Leadbeater, the newly-elected Labour MP for Batley and Spen, is sworn in as a member of Parliament
If Kim Leadbeater had a surname pronounced "Lead better" would she be a contender for the next Labour leadership election? Or perhaps leddership election?
Shame that the phone book doesn't have anyone with the surname "Governbetter".
BBC Politics @BBCPolitics · 20m Kim Leadbeater, the newly-elected Labour MP for Batley and Spen, is sworn in as a member of Parliament
If Kim Leadbeater had a surname pronounced "Lead better" would she be a contender for the next Labour leadership election? Or perhaps leddership election?
Shame that the phone book doesn't have anyone with the surname "Governbetter".
Chris Moneymaker won the World Series of Poker after gaining an entry via a small online tournament. He had never played live poker before the event.He won millions . Great name for it
BBC Politics @BBCPolitics · 20m Kim Leadbeater, the newly-elected Labour MP for Batley and Spen, is sworn in as a member of Parliament
If Kim Leadbeater had a surname pronounced "Lead better" would she be a contender for the next Labour leadership election? Or perhaps leddership election?
Shame that the phone book doesn't have anyone with the surname "Governbetter".
Chris Moneymaker won the World Series of Poker after gaining an entry via a small online tournament. He had never played live poker before the event.He won millions . Great name for it
A Hollywood script writer couldn't have come up with a better story if they tried. Especially the scene of him pulling off a huge bluff against Sammy Fahra, a veteran live player, who known for his live reading above solid fundamentals.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Well you could argue that masks are therefore not stopping this massive spike anyway and so what is the point ? Never been convinced whipping them on half heartedly in a shop for a few minutes then off again and fiddling with them creates any benefit other then showing "something is being done". Probably causes more health issues in other ways given how people generally wear them who woudl not do so if not ordered to (ie reluctant or not bothered about covid wearers of them). i was on a train last week and on the morning trip compliance was fairly high , on the return trip at 10pm nobody bothered or had them around their neck
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
This is a not uncommmon experience for Landlords; on any forum for UK LLs you get the occasional report - police smashing in the wrong door, then refusing to take responsibility for themselves. In that case they will eventually pay up.
The awkward ones are when they say they had a lawful reason and it is questionable (eg "welfare check" after T has left and they were informed by a neighbour).
I'm not sure what's worse: the lucky February coincidence or that they've not even had to wait six months before copping the big'un.
Isn't there a conspiracy theory that bonds purchased more recently do better? I haven't bothered buying any, but if interest rates don't go back to something like pre-COVID by Christmas then I might. But then I guess there has to be a real chance that the government slashes NS&I rates.
had a £1000 worth for seven years and did not win a thing. The odds on that were about 2% . Whilst I get that ERNIE does not select tickets as such but numbers that are then matched to current bonds list , with that apparent luck I had doubts in my mid my numbers were active so sold out. Probably irrational as maybe I was just very unlucky but no point in playing something if you are not convinced yourself you are in the game!
I was given £5 worth when I was born, 43 years ago. Still got £5 worth. Haven't won a dickie bird. Might as well just let it sit there and continue to depreciate. I think I've got more chance of being struck by lightning than winning anything.
I have the max and get something every month, usually a 25 or 2 X 25. Spookily this year I've had a 1000 and a 100 despite payout rates having allegedly reduced. The system seems rigged in favour of those who can max out.
I was gifted a few pounds worth at birth. Then, when I was 8, I had a win. £25 which was massive then, esp for an 8 yo. Instead of buying a years supply of sweets or a top notch train set - which I could have done - I opted to reinvest the whole sum in more premium bonds. Sort of boy I was. The sort to make his parents proud. Have not had a win since.
They look like a tory scam on the poor. Owning a handful is like buying lottery tickets except that the payouts suck, while owning the full monty has paid me north of 2% this year already, and it's July.
It's meant to be random (I think?) so that shouldn't be the case. If you've been getting that sort of yield on the max holding, year after year, it does seem a bit fishy, but perhaps you've just been lucky.
I don't buy that you are any worse off owning a handful than owning the full whack. The rate of return is the same.
Yep, over the very very long run. I'll be leaving them (my £55) to my son and one day he'll get a £25. Maybe another in his lifetime. Then HIS son - since it's a man thing, this - will pick it up, £105 now, and he'll get 3 or 4 wins. And so on and so forth. The yield will slowly but surely tend to the benchmark.
I have always thought it would be nice to have an occasional pay out similar to Premium Bonds for taxation. Yes it would lead to whining about the rich getting richer, but what a great incentive to pay your fair level of tax, knowing there was small chance that the more you paid the greater the chance you could get a pay out!
Creative and has merit. But just imagine if George Osborne won. Or Piers Morgan. Or that bloke who owns Pimlico Plumbers. You'd need to block those types out in some way.
@Cookie nah everyone hates wearing masks, even the most vegan wokeista
Yes, that's my impression. So I think the numbers who actually keep wearing masks even when they're not compelled to will be rather lower than those who say that they will.
There is definitely a divide between maskers and non-maskers in my experience ... perfectly rational people, who ought to know better, are still terrified. It's not as obvious as Remainers versus Leavers but that's as close a proxy as any. Call it Collectivism versus Individualism - those who believe in big government and are happy to be ordered around versus those who don't.
If you terrify the population, they will tend toward big government for protection. As I've said before, unterrifying the population after 18 months of relentless doom-mongering is going to be very, very hard ... and I'm not even sure the government wants to do it, not really - they have got used to a cowed and compliant populace, which is awfully convenient when you have unpopular climate change restrictions to impose (not to mention tax rises to pay for COVID). No, I reckon the government will be quite happy to have a collectivist, all-in-it-together mindset around for quite a while.
I was glad to see finally some discussion on here last night about the devastating, insidious impact of the behavioural psychologists during COVID ... they really have grasped the opportunity for relevance and power and they are not going to give it up easily - we need to shine a light much more harshly on who they are and what they are up to. The fact we have far-left political activists in an official capacity advising the government on how to make people comply with COVID restrictions is extremely worrying.
I've recommended Laura Dodsworth's book before and I do it again. It is a sickening read.
You're over-politicising it. There's a rational discussion (much of which we've seen on PB) about the right balance between enjoyment and risk-taking, and the Government has a difficult choice in steering us through, as to be fair would any Government.
I'm not a fan of the Government, but nor am I convinced they are motivated by collectivism (Boris Johnson??? Pull the other one), control-freakery or anything on those lines. The risk of relaxing too quickly is that you get a lot of illness and later end up having to tighten up again. The risk of relaxing too slowly is that you inhibit normal life and the economy more than you needed to. All the stuff about wanting a cowed population is frankly irrelevant paranoia.
As for the obsession with Susan Michie's political views, she's been asked to do a professional job advising on behaviourism, which is her profession. She's not been asked to advise on politics, nor is she doing so. We shouldn't care how she or anyone on SAGE votes.
With respect, Nick, as a left of centre politician you would say that wouldn't you? Psychology as a discipline, rather like economics, cannot be separated from the political beliefs of the practitioners - it is a heavily opinion-based pseudo science. And the vast majority of behavioural psychologist's are of the left politically.
I'm just looking for balance. There is no doubt that the government was persuaded that it had to terrify the whole population in order to gain compliance - this is documented fact. I find that unethical and reprehensible. I also disagree with the political trade-off between the short term objectives and the longer term damage that is being done to the mental health of the young and to the finances of the nation. And finally, I find it unconscionable that that there has been, apparently, no thought about how to exit this situation and return to normality.
The government reaction to COVID has been a massive over-reaction. That fact of the matter is that for most people this is a mild infection. I don't believe the conspiracy theories ... I just think that weak politicians made poor decisions based on biased advice. And having made those poor decisions, the politicians, because they are weak, continue to double down; they appear incapable of changing the policy or the narrative.
I agree with Nick... Susan Mitchie's political views are quite separate from her professional advice. But perhaps the government should have had the foresight to engage a neo-Nazi behavioural scientist as well, for the sake of balance.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Someone showed figures for hospitalizations the other day, and those in the UK are lower than in Europe. Their infection rates are low because they're not testing as much as we are.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Simple answer is delta, combined with high levels of asymptomatic testing here, and less so in Europe. We have a huge Indian population and thus seeded delta in many places. Less so in Europe, but it is undoubtedly spreading there, and will become an issue for them too.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Simple answer is delta, combined with high levels of asymptomatic testing here, and less so in Europe. We have a huge Indian population and thus seeded delta in many places. Less so in Europe, but it is undoubtedly spreading there, and will become an issue for them too.
I saw something yesterday from a French journalist I follow that French rates have started to increase and delta is becoming increasingly dominant there, so give it a few weeks and they'll be where we are.
One thing that's really irritating is that we've got no fan parks for the football. In 2018 it was a great experience and I don't understand why they haven't brought them back. It's an outdoor event which is surely safer than cramming the whole nation into front rooms and enclosed spaces in pubs. It's something Boris needs to address because Wednesday and potentially Sunday will be huge events. Shifting at least some of the fans to outdoor events would be a mitigation.
I agree wholeheartedly with this article. The 3 most important lessons for Tories in by-elections must be: 1. Select good local candidate if possible. 2. Do not be complacent but put every effort in 3. Significantly improve your GOTV operation
I expect more LD gains in any by-election in places where they were second to Con in GE2019
Marginal Lab/Con by-elections in North and Midlands should be most interesting if we have any over the next 30 months.
I know its a bit crazy leftfield but also have some policies that are small state and fiscally balanced rather than nannying government and huge spending of money the government actually hasn't got.
Offer that policy and Labour will start recovering some of their Red Wall seats.
and to that i would say " so what? " I mean it does not matter to me if a high spending high nannying politician calls himself a tory or Labour (actually its probably more honest of them to cal themselves Labour) they are still a high spending high nannying politician
Indeed.
Let's stop distorting the housing market with subsidies.
Abolish the CGT main dwelling exemption loophole now.
£30bn every year to spend on proper care in old age, and a more orderly housing market, and less artificial ramping of house prices.
What's not to like?
Stamp duty typically represents several months’ gross salary, which for most people takes a long time to save. This is in itself a distortion of the house market by reducing liquidity and shoe horning ameters into the landlord business when they need to move location.
Charging CGT on main dwellings would be this distortion effect but on elephant steroids. A tax on inflation but only at the point of liquidating the asset… a huge disincentive to ever sell.
AIUI indexation allowance for CGT was abolished in 2008, so nothing else has it - why should your house?
Charging CGT on main dwellings would make them like all your other assets, surely?
It is not as if the entire gain is being taken away, just (at present) 28%.
It's about 4% of total government expenditure we are talking about here, which is not a pinprick.
I agree wholeheartedly with this article. The 3 most important lessons for Tories in by-elections must be: 1. Select good local candidate if possible. 2. Do not be complacent but put every effort in 3. Significantly improve your GOTV operation
I expect more LD gains in any by-election in places where they were second to Con in GE2019
Marginal Lab/Con by-elections in North and Midlands should be most interesting if we have any over the next 30 months.
I know its a bit crazy leftfield but also have some policies that are small state and fiscally balanced rather than nannying government and huge spending of money the government actually hasn't got.
Offer that policy and Labour will start recovering some of their Red Wall seats.
and to that i would say " so what? " I mean it does not matter to me if a high spending high nannying politician calls himself a tory or Labour (actually its probably more honest of them to cal themselves Labour) they are still a high spending high nannying politician
Indeed.
Let's stop distorting the housing market with subsidies.
Abolish the CGT main dwelling exemption loophole now.
£30bn every year to spend on proper care in old age, and a more orderly housing market, and less artificial ramping of house prices.
What's not to like?
Stamp duty typically represents several months’ gross salary, which for most people takes a long time to save. This is in itself a distortion of the house market by reducing liquidity and shoe horning ameters into the landlord business when they need to move location.
Charging CGT on main dwellings would be this distortion effect but on elephant steroids. A tax on inflation but only at the point of liquidating the asset… a huge disincentive to ever sell.
AIUI indexation allowance for CGT was abolished in 2008, so nothing else has it - why should your house?
Charging CGT on main dwellings would make them like all your other assets, surely?
It's about 4% of total government expenditure we are talking about here, which is not a pinprick.
Perhaps do it slowly, but imo it needs to go.
I've no objection to looking at Stamp Duty too.
Because CGT is a tax on investments and a person's primary residence isn't an investment it's a home. It would be immoral to tax it as an investment. Better to put up CGT on secondary properties, ideally to match income tax rates as well as an annual surcharge for owning more than one property. Maybe 3% of the value.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Simple answer is delta, combined with high levels of asymptomatic testing here, and less so in Europe. We have a huge Indian population and thus seeded delta in many places. Less so in Europe, but it is undoubtedly spreading there, and will become an issue for them too.
Does it remain government advice to test ourselves every day even if asymptomatic?
Also apropos of compliance, etc - I saw some stats on the ERP events - ie Ascot some others can't remember which. Only 15% of those attending completed the full testing regime (LFT before going, PCR before going, PCR after going).
One thing that's really irritating is that we've got no fan parks for the football. In 2018 it was a great experience and I don't understand why they haven't brought them back. It's an outdoor event which is surely safer than cramming the whole nation into front rooms and enclosed spaces in pubs. It's something Boris needs to address because Wednesday and potentially Sunday will be huge events. Shifting at least some of the fans to outdoor events would be a mitigation.
One thing that's really irritating is that we've got no fan parks for the football. In 2018 it was a great experience and I don't understand why they haven't brought them back. It's an outdoor event which is surely safer than cramming the whole nation into front rooms and enclosed spaces in pubs. It's something Boris needs to address because Wednesday and potentially Sunday will be huge events. Shifting at least some of the fans to outdoor events would be a mitigation.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Simple answer is delta, combined with high levels of asymptomatic testing here, and less so in Europe. We have a huge Indian population and thus seeded delta in many places. Less so in Europe, but it is undoubtedly spreading there, and will become an issue for them too.
Does it remain government advice to test ourselves every day even if asymptomatic?
Also apropos of compliance, etc - I saw some stats on the ERP events - ie Ascot some others can't remember which. Only 15% of those attending completed the full testing regime (LFT before going, PCR before going, PCR after going).
Yes, twice a week or any day you're going out. I don't do it because it's ridiculous and I'm now in office at least 3 days per week and usually we're out on Saturday for dinner or drinks. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history. It's just fear mongering at large for a vaccinated population.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Europe will be in a similar position to us in about four weeks, but in places that are well-vaccinated, levels of serious illness and deaths should be low.
One thing that's really irritating is that we've got no fan parks for the football. In 2018 it was a great experience and I don't understand why they haven't brought them back. It's an outdoor event which is surely safer than cramming the whole nation into front rooms and enclosed spaces in pubs. It's something Boris needs to address because Wednesday and potentially Sunday will be huge events. Shifting at least some of the fans to outdoor events would be a mitigation.
"POTENTIALLY SUNDAY"!!!!!
Dear god man don't jinx it.
Hey a final is a big deal in itself. I made no mention of the teams involved.
One thing that's really irritating is that we've got no fan parks for the football. In 2018 it was a great experience and I don't understand why they haven't brought them back. It's an outdoor event which is surely safer than cramming the whole nation into front rooms and enclosed spaces in pubs. It's something Boris needs to address because Wednesday and potentially Sunday will be huge events. Shifting at least some of the fans to outdoor events would be a mitigation.
One thing that's really irritating is that we've got no fan parks for the football. In 2018 it was a great experience and I don't understand why they haven't brought them back. It's an outdoor event which is surely safer than cramming the whole nation into front rooms and enclosed spaces in pubs. It's something Boris needs to address because Wednesday and potentially Sunday will be huge events. Shifting at least some of the fans to outdoor events would be a mitigation.
One thing that's really irritating is that we've got no fan parks for the football. In 2018 it was a great experience and I don't understand why they haven't brought them back. It's an outdoor event which is surely safer than cramming the whole nation into front rooms and enclosed spaces in pubs. It's something Boris needs to address because Wednesday and potentially Sunday will be huge events. Shifting at least some of the fans to outdoor events would be a mitigation.
"POTENTIALLY SUNDAY"!!!!!
Dear god man don't jinx it.
Hey a final is a big deal in itself. I made no mention of the teams involved.
Well, given the history of these lands, we can just claim Danish ancestry and still have a team in the final if he worst happens
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Simple answer is delta, combined with high levels of asymptomatic testing here, and less so in Europe. We have a huge Indian population and thus seeded delta in many places. Less so in Europe, but it is undoubtedly spreading there, and will become an issue for them too.
Does it remain government advice to test ourselves every day even if asymptomatic?
Also apropos of compliance, etc - I saw some stats on the ERP events - ie Ascot some others can't remember which. Only 15% of those attending completed the full testing regime (LFT before going, PCR before going, PCR after going).
Yes, twice a week or any day you're going out. I don't do it because it's ridiculous and I'm now in office at least 3 days per week and usually we're out on Saturday for dinner or drinks. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history. It's just fear mongering at large for a vaccinated population.
The one thing which would continue to stop the country dead in its tracks is if they didn't abolish the 10-day isolation.
No one could plan to do anything, nor have any certainty of being able to work, if they thought they might be pinged at any time and told to stay at home for 10 days.
If it stays the country will be at the mercy of having to put their lives on hold at any time. It is untenable.
Edit: hence I think very much hope they will exempt double-jabbed people from this but that still leaves millions exposed.
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
There is a great docuseries on Netflix - Flint Town (https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80156688) . Is very interesting and in particular deals specifically with "defunding the police" which is not what people think it is.
I get that defund the police doesn't mean what most (certainly in the UK) think it means, but to me that just makes it an ill thought out phrase.
Yes - what they need is a snappy catch phrase for "demilitarise the police, train them in social work and de-escalation".
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Simple answer is delta, combined with high levels of asymptomatic testing here, and less so in Europe. We have a huge Indian population and thus seeded delta in many places. Less so in Europe, but it is undoubtedly spreading there, and will become an issue for them too.
Does it remain government advice to test ourselves every day even if asymptomatic?
Also apropos of compliance, etc - I saw some stats on the ERP events - ie Ascot some others can't remember which. Only 15% of those attending completed the full testing regime (LFT before going, PCR before going, PCR after going).
Yes, twice a week or any day you're going out. I don't do it because it's ridiculous and I'm now in office at least 3 days per week and usually we're out on Saturday for dinner or drinks. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history. It's just fear mongering at large for a vaccinated population.
Plus pointless. Who, if asymptomatic, would be about to go to dinner with friends, or have them over, and then take a jab which might mean they would have to cancel? Ans: no one sane.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
It's time to get rid of all the restrictions, including wearing masks.
One thing that's really irritating is that we've got no fan parks for the football. In 2018 it was a great experience and I don't understand why they haven't brought them back. It's an outdoor event which is surely safer than cramming the whole nation into front rooms and enclosed spaces in pubs. It's something Boris needs to address because Wednesday and potentially Sunday will be huge events. Shifting at least some of the fans to outdoor events would be a mitigation.
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
There is a great docuseries on Netflix - Flint Town (https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80156688) . Is very interesting and in particular deals specifically with "defunding the police" which is not what people think it is.
I get that defund the police doesn't mean what most (certainly in the UK) think it means, but to me that just makes it an ill thought out phrase.
Yes - what they need is a snappy catch phrase for "demilitarise the police, train them in social work and de-escalation".
Simply "demilitarise the police" would work pretty well?
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
Mistakes happen, but when you do make one, be gracious about it and make it right. Sounds like that is not the way for the local plod there. Presumably she was not the right kind of person to attract media attention (thinking about the recent murder case of Sarah Everard?)
My Dad had his door bust open a few weeks ago and several police and paramedics turned up in his living room - whilst he was still shielding. He was understandably distressed, particularly as he is deaf and didn't hear the door being broken down.
All because the neighbour (house rented by social services) got excited when they spotted that his cistern overflow was dripping.
If this social services person had bothered to look in the book by their door they'd have found my phone number. Perhaps the police or the ambulance service could have checked with the GP or their own database? Apparently not. Straight in with the fire brigade and the heavy mob.
Despite it obviously being a false alarm they were still trying to quiz him about his health when I got there. Why it took four of them to do this I have no idea.
I think the problem is that once this kind of thing has been set in motion it becomes unstoppable. Nobody ever pauses to think - is this proportionate?
The weekend recorded deaths with Covid in England NHS Hospitals remain very low 20,3 & 1.
Not surprising as the mask mandate is still in place.
err think it might be more to do with the fact that everybody is nearly vaccinated
As I understand it, being nearly vaccinated doesn't offer much protection. I think the needle has to actually have have gone in
(I also think Fishing may have been fishing a little, given Nerys's well known opinions on masks)
Yes I was just trolling. I think masks are marginally, if at all, effective in most contexts.
Obviously it's the vaccines that have done it, together, probably, with increased experience amongst doctors at treating patients after more than a year of this. The scientists who developed the vaccines deserve the GC.
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
There is a great docuseries on Netflix - Flint Town (https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80156688) . Is very interesting and in particular deals specifically with "defunding the police" which is not what people think it is.
I get that defund the police doesn't mean what most (certainly in the UK) think it means, but to me that just makes it an ill thought out phrase.
Yes - what they need is a snappy catch phrase for "demilitarise the police, train them in social work and de-escalation".
Simply "demilitarise the police" would work pretty well?
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
Mistakes happen, but when you do make one, be gracious about it and make it right. Sounds like that is not the way for the local plod there. Presumably she was not the right kind of person to attract media attention (thinking about the recent murder case of Sarah Everard?)
I'm sure anyone with retail management experience will agree that when something goes wrong..... faulty goods, wrong size or whatever...... a prompt apology and recompense/replacement is likely to win a customers approval and even create or encourage repeat purchases.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Simple answer is delta, combined with high levels of asymptomatic testing here, and less so in Europe. We have a huge Indian population and thus seeded delta in many places. Less so in Europe, but it is undoubtedly spreading there, and will become an issue for them too.
Does it remain government advice to test ourselves every day even if asymptomatic?
Also apropos of compliance, etc - I saw some stats on the ERP events - ie Ascot some others can't remember which. Only 15% of those attending completed the full testing regime (LFT before going, PCR before going, PCR after going).
Yes, twice a week or any day you're going out. I don't do it because it's ridiculous and I'm now in office at least 3 days per week and usually we're out on Saturday for dinner or drinks. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history. It's just fear mongering at large for a vaccinated population.
The one thing which would continue to stop the country dead in its tracks is if they didn't abolish the 10-day isolation.
No one could plan to do anything, nor have any certainty of being able to work, if they thought they might be pinged at any time and told to stay at home for 10 days.
If it stays the country will be at the mercy of having to put their lives on hold at any time. It is untenable.
Edit: hence I think very much hope they will exempt double-jabbed people from this but that still leaves millions exposed.
I think we're about 3 weeks from everyone who wants to be vaccinated being able to walk up and get one. There's a real naivete in the government about vaccinations for 12-17 year olds. It's something that should be available for those who want it. Effectively banning it despite MHRA approval is going to turn into a big problem as Europe and the US will require vaccination for 12-17 year olds for entry. We have the vaccines to do it as well so it's a really odd decision.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Simple answer is delta, combined with high levels of asymptomatic testing here, and less so in Europe. We have a huge Indian population and thus seeded delta in many places. Less so in Europe, but it is undoubtedly spreading there, and will become an issue for them too.
Does it remain government advice to test ourselves every day even if asymptomatic?
Also apropos of compliance, etc - I saw some stats on the ERP events - ie Ascot some others can't remember which. Only 15% of those attending completed the full testing regime (LFT before going, PCR before going, PCR after going).
Yes, twice a week or any day you're going out. I don't do it because it's ridiculous and I'm now in office at least 3 days per week and usually we're out on Saturday for dinner or drinks. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history. It's just fear mongering at large for a vaccinated population.
Plus pointless. Who, if asymptomatic, would be about to go to dinner with friends, or have them over, and then take a jab which might mean they would have to cancel? Ans: no one sane.
I have never had a covid test. I only learned on here last week that government policy is to test yourself daily. I doubt very many people are even aware of this!
Suspect @londonpubman 's forecast of 100,000 covid positive tests a day this week will be yet another failed prediction in a long series from him.
In the next hour or so it will also be shown there have been loads of failed predictions by those who said that the restrictions were never ever going to end as well.
One thing that's really irritating is that we've got no fan parks for the football. In 2018 it was a great experience and I don't understand why they haven't brought them back. It's an outdoor event which is surely safer than cramming the whole nation into front rooms and enclosed spaces in pubs. It's something Boris needs to address because Wednesday and potentially Sunday will be huge events. Shifting at least some of the fans to outdoor events would be a mitigation.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Simple answer is delta, combined with high levels of asymptomatic testing here, and less so in Europe. We have a huge Indian population and thus seeded delta in many places. Less so in Europe, but it is undoubtedly spreading there, and will become an issue for them too.
Does it remain government advice to test ourselves every day even if asymptomatic?
Also apropos of compliance, etc - I saw some stats on the ERP events - ie Ascot some others can't remember which. Only 15% of those attending completed the full testing regime (LFT before going, PCR before going, PCR after going).
Yes, twice a week or any day you're going out. I don't do it because it's ridiculous and I'm now in office at least 3 days per week and usually we're out on Saturday for dinner or drinks. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history. It's just fear mongering at large for a vaccinated population.
Plus pointless. Who, if asymptomatic, would be about to go to dinner with friends, or have them over, and then take a jab which might mean they would have to cancel? Ans: no one sane.
I have never had a covid test. I only learned on here last week that government policy is to test yourself daily. I doubt very many people are even aware of this!
Why is communism regarded as more acceptable than fascism? They're equally as bad.
Its my perennial rant. Why was John McDonald not excoriated for producing Mao's little red book in the house? Imagine if someone had brought in Mein Kampf? Mao was every bit as evil as Hitler, and with every bit the hidious impact on peoples lives. And don't get me started on Stalin.
This will be one for someone like Nick Palmer to answer.
But having talked to a few in the past, I think a supposed Stalin quote is at the heart of it: you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette". Communism may have killed millions of people for little good, but their heart was in the correct place. Unlike those evil fascists. The ends justify the means.
And there is some evidence towards that: in China and Russia, Communism (or bastardised versions of it) have turned poor countries with vast resources into rich ones (albeit Russia has descended recently). But that ignores that the west's weird pseudo-capitalist system has also seen massive gains - and perhaps more than was seen in Russia and China. It also ignores the hot messes of countries like NK or Venezuela.
Personally, the political theory I find really intriguing is anarchism. I knew someone who created a diagram of all the different anarchist groups in this country up to the 1990s, and the amount of splitting and divergence of views was quite amazing.
As I've been asked, I don't think it's especially useful to set up lists of vileness - arguably, Hitler (seeking to eradicate whole population groups) was worse than Pol Pot (seeking to eradicate all opponents) who was worse than Stalin (seeking to eradicate random enemies perceived by a paranoid) who was worse than Lenin (seeking to eradicate actual opponents), etc., but we could spend all day arguing the details, pointlessly. But yes, I see dictators who seek to inflict misery because it gives them pleasure and satisfaction as worse than dictators who make dreadful mistakes. And in some cases they will do something that they can offer in mitigation, as Josias says.
I always felt and suppose I still feel that the underlying idea of communism was attractive (and better than Nazism, which is based on the idea of inherent superiorty of races and the right to enslave other races) - from each according to ability, to each according to need. For what it's worth, it's how I try to live. But it quite evidently doesn't work as a system of government, and is often associated with murderous dictatorship, which makes it totally unacceptable however good the intentions. Even in the days in the 60s when I was a communist, it was always on the Eurocommunist model pioneered by Berlinguer - an attempt to make the ideas work in a civilised democratic framework.
Tried to give an honest answer there. But it's all very historical - as a system of government, both models are utterly discredited.
Incidentally, I had relatives who lived under Stalin. One was political, a keen left-winger who returned to Russia from exile to help the Soviet state. He was sent to the Gulag and is assumed to have died there, for not having precisely the right views. The others never left till the 80s, and just got by, keeping their heads down and never expressing any opinions about anything.
Thanks Nick, that matches my opinion exactly. Perhaps I would add that in a forced choice between Soviet Communism and Naziism, even a lifelong anti-Communist like Churchill had little difficulty in choosing the Soviets as the lesser of two evils. And I don't think he ever expressed any doubt about that choice. So in all honesty, I think the question of which was worse has already been answered comprehensively.
Counterfactual though - if Stalin had invaded the UK and the Nazi's had offered support, I suspect he would have accepted.
As my old man says, there are no if's in history.
Undoubtedly, but Stalin never had any intention of invading the UK - and the fact that he didn't is one aspect of the differences between Soviet comminism and Naziism.
An important aspect of their difference was their respective foreign policies, and in particular their policies towards the monarchist regime in one particular foreign country, with which one of them happened to be militarily allied during a major conflict while the other was at war with it?
It could easily have happened that the German regime was allied to said monarchy while the Soviet regime was at war with it, with only a small change in initial circumstances.
Hmm, you remind me of the way in which the [edit] Windsor regime (or at least its prime minister) had a good go at starting a war with the Soviet Union over Finland in 1939.
Could have ended up with Germany and the SU as co-belligerents against the London imperialists.
Agreed - just change a few small things and that could have happened too. Von Ribbentrop said he felt as if he were among his "party comrades" when he was in Moscow. As for Khrushchev he said that had he been British he would have voted Tory. They're all as bad as one another. And the kind of person from somewhere who thinks the established regime is a damned fine chap would think the same about some other established regime if he were from somewhere else.
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
There is a great docuseries on Netflix - Flint Town (https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80156688) . Is very interesting and in particular deals specifically with "defunding the police" which is not what people think it is.
I get that defund the police doesn't mean what most (certainly in the UK) think it means, but to me that just makes it an ill thought out phrase.
Yes - what they need is a snappy catch phrase for "demilitarise the police, train them in social work and de-escalation".
Simply "demilitarise the police" would work pretty well?
Hard to say, hard to spell, and doesn't scan well.
Also, would make absolutely no sense when translated to the UK.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Simple answer is delta, combined with high levels of asymptomatic testing here, and less so in Europe. We have a huge Indian population and thus seeded delta in many places. Less so in Europe, but it is undoubtedly spreading there, and will become an issue for them too.
Does it remain government advice to test ourselves every day even if asymptomatic?
Also apropos of compliance, etc - I saw some stats on the ERP events - ie Ascot some others can't remember which. Only 15% of those attending completed the full testing regime (LFT before going, PCR before going, PCR after going).
Yes, twice a week or any day you're going out. I don't do it because it's ridiculous and I'm now in office at least 3 days per week and usually we're out on Saturday for dinner or drinks. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history. It's just fear mongering at large for a vaccinated population.
Plus pointless. Who, if asymptomatic, would be about to go to dinner with friends, or have them over, and then take a jab which might mean they would have to cancel? Ans: no one sane.
I have never had a covid test. I only learned on here last week that government policy is to test yourself daily. I doubt very many people are even aware of this!
No it isn't. Where did you get that from?
Everyone is eligible to get two tests per week and its recommended to test yourself if you have symptoms, but its not policy to test daily and never has been.
Sky still introducing 'Independent SAGE' zero covidians as 'SAGE' members. They seem to be waking up to the fact they're losing the argument, but still screaching about how wrong it is.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Simple answer is delta, combined with high levels of asymptomatic testing here, and less so in Europe. We have a huge Indian population and thus seeded delta in many places. Less so in Europe, but it is undoubtedly spreading there, and will become an issue for them too.
Does it remain government advice to test ourselves every day even if asymptomatic?
Also apropos of compliance, etc - I saw some stats on the ERP events - ie Ascot some others can't remember which. Only 15% of those attending completed the full testing regime (LFT before going, PCR before going, PCR after going).
Yes, twice a week or any day you're going out. I don't do it because it's ridiculous and I'm now in office at least 3 days per week and usually we're out on Saturday for dinner or drinks. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history. It's just fear mongering at large for a vaccinated population.
The one thing which would continue to stop the country dead in its tracks is if they didn't abolish the 10-day isolation.
No one could plan to do anything, nor have any certainty of being able to work, if they thought they might be pinged at any time and told to stay at home for 10 days.
If it stays the country will be at the mercy of having to put their lives on hold at any time. It is untenable.
Edit: hence I think very much hope they will exempt double-jabbed people from this but that still leaves millions exposed.
the test and trace system is massively disproportionate and stupid to continue. Personally I just switch off the contact tracer anyway on it
I’m observing Dominic Cummings’s “Ask Me Anything” so that PBers don’t have to.
Fan of Tony Blair’s it seems:
Obviously he'd (Tony Blair) have done a much better job - he wd at least read papers, chair meetings, understand how gvt machine works, not trolley around all day... And my impression is since losing on Brexit he's jumped ahead of almost all MPs in understanding that science and technology must be the future orientation for UK...
Translation - I think he likes the things I like, so he must be good.
Down here on the south coast I predicted that Delta would run amok following the bank holiday a month ago, and indeed it has. We are hearing of several family members/friends each day now being tested positive, and numbers in the city have shot up dramatically.
The latest is one of our daughters, aged 29, tested positive by PCR. She's been double-vaxxed for two months because of her job, but it hasn't stopped her getting Covid. She's quite unwell, as is her 4-year old son, who has a temperature and is vomiting. It may be relatively mild, but it's still very unpleasant. I have no living memory of hearing about so many people with flu at the same time.
I don't have any answers, but I'm not quite as sanguine as most on here about simply letting it rip. There will be casualties. And if some double-vaxxed people are getting it (yes, I know the DV isn't 100%), it's going to hit those in their 20s and 30s who have only had one jab so far pretty hard. Looks like we're finally going for herd immunity. Fingers crossed it's not a mistake.
My own views on whether to open up, stay at the same level, or slap on more restrictions:
Open up.
It's easy for me to say: as a family, we prefer to lock ourselves down a little longer for various reasons, and we have the capability to do so. When saying 'open up', I'm well aware other are not in that fortunate situation. We shall continue to wear masks and exercise caution until the numbers are down: but that is our choice.
The dreaded pox is resurgent, and that is bad news. However, the lockdowns were sold to us on the basis of the NHS being able to cope with Covid patients, and the connection between cases and hospitalisations appears to have been broken. People are fed up, and the side effects of lockdown are growing more pernicious day by day.
I will say that, despite the carping, I'm glad I'm not the one having to make the decision. It's one of the cases where anyone claiming there is a definite 'correct and easy' decision is either a fool or a knowing liar.
It's pretty much a done deal, isn't it, that July 19th is going ahead with neither delay nor serious exceptions?
Or have I missed something? Are the drums beating out something else?
Its going ahead because it is in the political interests of the PM for it to go ahead. Its *what* goes ahead that is the problem. @JosiasJessop wasn't happy that I wasn't being precise so let me give a more precise no from perspective - nightclubs.
We must be batshit crazy to open them up the week after next when we have this huge spike tearings its way across the country. Outdoor events like gigs and festivals and sport yes. We've already opened the pubs up. Its that we're saying "no more restrictions from next Monday week and there will be no return to restrictions" alongside "don't wear a mask or worry about social distancing, use your common sense" that is truly stupid.
Even if the step was "we're mostly opening up, but FFS don't act like irresponsible prannocks. Covid can still make you really sick and give you a debilitating condition that may affect you long term so be careful" that would be ok. Not "I hate masks they are awful and I'm taking it off as soon as I can".
How about if you don't want to be infected at a nightclub, you don't go to a nightclub.
The issue is that Covid isn't likely to make you really sick or give you a debilitating condition post-vaccinations, so its time to get back to normal.
Judging by the number of teens who currently have Covid (anecdata, that said) I think nightclubs will be very safe for all but the anti-vax 40-64yr olds and what the hell are they doing there in the first place?
Well indeed. If an anti-vax 55 year old goes clubbing and gets infected then that's called Personal Responsibility.
Shame Rochdale is so allergic to the concept.
It's a (rare) misstep from Rochdale.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
I'll take the (rare) misstep comment I don't think for a minute that under 30s clubbers are as likely to suffer badly with pox as other groups - though some will. Its them spreading back into the wider populace. I know several people who have been double jabbed and come down with Covid anyway. It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
"It hasn't killed them, but its entirely avoidable."
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
Its happening anyway, and I'm north of the wall (and besides which out in the sticks) so it doesn't directly affect me. I hope very much that Whitty et al are correct on this one, its just that you look at the rates of pox here and across Europe and wonder how we have got this so badly wrong when their infection rates are (largely) on the floor. If ours were as well then fine.
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
Simple answer is delta, combined with high levels of asymptomatic testing here, and less so in Europe. We have a huge Indian population and thus seeded delta in many places. Less so in Europe, but it is undoubtedly spreading there, and will become an issue for them too.
Does it remain government advice to test ourselves every day even if asymptomatic?
Also apropos of compliance, etc - I saw some stats on the ERP events - ie Ascot some others can't remember which. Only 15% of those attending completed the full testing regime (LFT before going, PCR before going, PCR after going).
Yes, twice a week or any day you're going out. I don't do it because it's ridiculous and I'm now in office at least 3 days per week and usually we're out on Saturday for dinner or drinks. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history. It's just fear mongering at large for a vaccinated population.
Plus pointless. Who, if asymptomatic, would be about to go to dinner with friends, or have them over, and then take a jab which might mean they would have to cancel? Ans: no one sane.
Indeed. My wife was worried about having COVID yesterday because her reaction to the second dose was pretty bad. We're meeting friends tomorrow before Italy Vs Spain and she basically refused to take the test. Now she's fine. You'd have to be mad to do it unless you were literally coughing the house down.
The scientists that Big Bad Dom wants the Prime Minister to be listening to:
Sir David Anthony King Professor Anthony Costello Professor Karl Friston FRS Dr Zubaida Haque FRSA Professor Martin McKee Professor Susan Michie Dr Tolullah Oni Professor Christina Pagel Professor Deenan Pillay Professor Stephen Reicher Professor Gabriel Scally Dr Kit Yates
The scientists that Big Bad Dom wants the Prime Minister to be listening to:
Sir David Anthony King Professor Anthony Costello Professor Karl Friston FRS Dr Zubaida Haque FRSA Professor Martin McKee Professor Susan Michie Dr Tolullah Oni Professor Christina Pagel Professor Deenan Pillay Professor Stephen Reicher Professor Gabriel Scally Dr Kit Yates
Dom Cummings is the last person to be wanting further restrictions given he could not comply with them himself when arguably there was a reason for them early last year.If he wasn't such a egotistical hypocrite he would do a bit of self reflection
I didn't think' defunding the police' was a British issue. TBH, I'm not exactly sure what it means. If the slogan was 'Re-educate the Police' I'd sympathise.
This is where BLM and others have screwed up.
Defunding the police actually means reallocating funding.
For example they would ban the police from buying military grade weapons and vehicles and rather have them spend that money on community policing.
Fun fact in a lot of states in America when the police carry out a no knock warrant and blow off the front of your house to enter and they have in fact come to the wrong house, they don't have to pay out any (or very little) recompense to the innocent party.
Would you be astonished to learn that no knock warrants disproportionately target African Americans and other minorities?
In fact, what they actually want in the BLM movement in America, when it is articulated, is something much closer to UK policing. Policing as a social service.
Yes, though I agree it's a self-defeating slogan.
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
Mistakes happen, but when you do make one, be gracious about it and make it right. Sounds like that is not the way for the local plod there. Presumably she was not the right kind of person to attract media attention (thinking about the recent murder case of Sarah Everard?)
I'm sure anyone with retail management experience will agree that when something goes wrong..... faulty goods, wrong size or whatever...... a prompt apology and recompense/replacement is likely to win a customers approval and even create or encourage repeat purchases.
You mean the polis get a cup of tea next time they batter the door?
Comments
I had a constituent (a white woman as it happened) who had precisely the experience described above - the police turned up outside her semi in Awsworth (a small working-class village) with no warning and smashed her door in. They had got the wrong house (they were looking for a major drug dealer who actually lived several doors away). She was told bluntly that these things happen and they'd compensate her "in due course". She came to me after she'd waited 3 months and I got it sorted, but she said it was utterly terrifying and really she'd have been grateful for a proper apology and maybe some flowers. If that sort of thing happens frequently in your neighbourhood, you can see how the idea of defunding the force altogether might get a hearing.
They play some proper 80s choons.
Re the A40 I had to take the rubber bungs out of the floor because of the amount of water that came through the windscreen, the headlights fell out through rust and I had to start it with a starting handle.
Of all the examples, buses for the drivers, child care assistants, etc he chooses nightclubs.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jul/05/the-police-bill-is-wiping-out-a-culture-new-travellers-take-a-stand
Is the advice for the 19th to ditch your mask, and get up close and personal with someone's armpit on the central line like in the good old days? You need to spend at least £10 a day in Costbucks for the public good etc.
Would the "no need for masks" edict be happening if the likes of Jenrick had to commute next to someone's armpit instead of in the back of a government Jag?
antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 from either infection or vaccination, compared to 14.9% from
infection alone."
If the former then of course that is not an issue - don't go; if the latter then at this stage of Covid progression I'm failing to see the huge issue. Plus it's not everyone sweating over everyone. It's everyone sweating, etc over the 20 people next to them.
And for "several 1000 people" isn't that big enough so that people are seated? Perhaps Glasto is an exception.
I have some sympathy with your view about nightclubs. But that's a bit of an edge case, compared to (say) the restrictions in pubs, gyms etc.
Re your last paragraph: "don't behave like irresponsible prannocks' has been a message throughout this crisis. At least, few, if any, people in power have been saying: "behave like a prannock!'. A problem is that many people *have* been behaving (IMV) like a prannock, either because they do not care, lack knowledge, not just that their own personal risk evaluation is different from mine. Indeed, some may see my own cautious approach as being a bit prannocky.
I have no desire for restrictions to stay other than the sad reality that I think we still need some until we have mass vaccination across all age groups and an understanding as to how mutations perform against the vaccinations we have.
a slightly sad old manout of place.I remember wanting a Gordini way back when, and the slightly mad Turbo 2.
https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/renaults-lively-5s-gordini-turbo-and-turbo-2-track
At the end of the month numbers were drawn on TV.
If you had the correct last 3 numbers you won a prize.(100 NT ISTR. About £2,50, It was 20 years ago)
Last 4 1000 NT, Last 5 10000, etc.
Correct full number was tens of millions.
Every home had a plastic bag full of receipts, and you'd see families going through piles of paper.
It was actually irrelevant how much you spent. Too complex.
Never won very much. But won summat every other month or so.
Yes. Masks on public transport and in shops. I have already posted on the hypocrisy of Jenrick et al commuting in their Jags whilst imploring the proles go mask free crushed into the tube like in the good old days.
This is not sufficient to keep them closed.
I'm just looking for balance. There is no doubt that the government was persuaded that it had to terrify the whole population in order to gain compliance - this is documented fact. I find that unethical and reprehensible. I also disagree with the political trade-off between the short term objectives and the longer term damage that is being done to the mental health of the young and to the finances of the nation. And finally, I find it unconscionable that that there has been, apparently, no thought about how to exit this situation and return to normality.
The government reaction to COVID has been a massive over-reaction. That fact of the matter is that for most people this is a mild infection. I don't believe the conspiracy theories ... I just think that weak politicians made poor decisions based on biased advice. And having made those poor decisions, the politicians, because they are weak, continue to double down; they appear incapable of changing the policy or the narrative.
"You do not need to wear a mask, I won't be, eeh aren't they uncomfortable" is an example of prannock behaviour.
I have to say I am weary of the media's go to experts who are largely members of the zero covid/elimination anti HMG iSage or the equally near hysterical BMA who have now introduced the argument that long covid is a serious issue and they they are under playing the second dose vaccination rate at 50% rather than 63.8% today
I am of the opinion that should Chris Whitty, Patrick Valllance and JVT support Boris today then whatever he announces is OK by me and we just need to accept that we have to live with covid as we live with flu
It is significant that you rarely hear these three scientists expressing their opinions in the media, which leaves the field open to those others who are simply not challenged by the media
In fact it is the locals agreeing (or not) the police dept's funding tax in any year.
State museum canceled book event examining slavery’s role in Battle of the Alamo after Texas GOP leaders complained, authors say
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/01/texas-forget-the-alamo-book-event-canceled/
Removing all restrictions including masks and social distancing because "yes you may make a load of people ill but not many of them will die" just feels odd in the middle of a massive spike that isn't happening elsewhere.
5 maidens
3 runs
5 wickets
James Anderson, take a bow.
He's brought up 1,000 first-class wickets.
#CountyCricket2021 https://t.co/lpL0fHxzfu
Kent 41 for 8.
The awkward ones are when they say they had a lawful reason and it is questionable (eg "welfare check" after T has left and they were informed by a neighbour).
eg https://www.propertytribes.com/door-broken-down-by-police-rental-property-t-127623735.html
Charging CGT on main dwellings would make them like all your other assets, surely?
It is not as if the entire gain is being taken away, just (at present) 28%.
It's about 4% of total government expenditure we are talking about here, which is not a pinprick.
Perhaps do it slowly, but imo it needs to go.
I've no objection to looking at Stamp Duty too.
Also apropos of compliance, etc - I saw some stats on the ERP events - ie Ascot some others can't remember which. Only 15% of those attending completed the full testing regime (LFT before going, PCR before going, PCR after going).
Dear god man don't jinx it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chroniclelive.co.uk/whats-on/food-drink-news/north-easts-biggest-beer-garden-20210988.amp
Edit. Just noticed this article is from March.
It is, however, happening. Seen with my own eyes.
(I also think Fishing may have been fishing a little, given Nerys's well known opinions on masks)
But that was a mudbath not a ploughed field.
https://www.boxpark.co.uk/campaigns/euro-2020/
ETA there is footage on Youtube (and presumably other social media) if you want to look.
No one could plan to do anything, nor have any certainty of being able to work, if they thought they might be pinged at any time and told to stay at home for 10 days.
If it stays the country will be at the mercy of having to put their lives on hold at any time. It is untenable.
Edit: hence I
thinkvery much hope they will exempt double-jabbed people from this but that still leaves millions exposed.https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/gallery/pictures-scenes-newcastle-england-fans-20964897.amp
All because the neighbour (house rented by social services) got excited when they spotted that his cistern overflow was dripping.
If this social services person had bothered to look in the book by their door they'd have found my phone number. Perhaps the police or the ambulance service could have checked with the GP or their own database? Apparently not. Straight in with the fire brigade and the heavy mob.
Despite it obviously being a false alarm they were still trying to quiz him about his health when I got there. Why it took four of them to do this I have no idea.
I think the problem is that once this kind of thing has been set in motion it becomes unstoppable. Nobody ever pauses to think - is this proportionate?
Obviously it's the vaccines that have done it, together, probably, with increased experience amongst doctors at treating patients after more than a year of this. The scientists who developed the vaccines deserve the GC.
"Obviously the Chief Scientific Adviser and Chief Medical Officer will appear alongside the Prime Minister later"
https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1412064472647323648
What??? It is?
Also, would make absolutely no sense when translated to the UK.
Everyone is eligible to get two tests per week and its recommended to test yourself if you have symptoms, but its not policy to test daily and never has been.
Sky still introducing 'Independent SAGE' zero covidians as 'SAGE' members. They seem to be waking up to the fact they're losing the argument, but still screaching about how wrong it is.
The latest is one of our daughters, aged 29, tested positive by PCR. She's been double-vaxxed for two months because of her job, but it hasn't stopped her getting Covid. She's quite unwell, as is her 4-year old son, who has a temperature and is vomiting. It may be relatively mild, but it's still very unpleasant. I have no living memory of hearing about so many people with flu at the same time.
I don't have any answers, but I'm not quite as sanguine as most on here about simply letting it rip. There will be casualties. And if some double-vaxxed people are getting it (yes, I know the DV isn't 100%), it's going to hit those in their 20s and 30s who have only had one jab so far pretty hard. Looks like we're finally going for herd immunity. Fingers crossed it's not a mistake.
Sir David Anthony King
Professor Anthony Costello
Professor Karl Friston FRS
Dr Zubaida Haque FRSA
Professor Martin McKee
Professor Susan Michie
Dr Tolullah Oni
Professor Christina Pagel
Professor Deenan Pillay
Professor Stephen Reicher
Professor Gabriel Scally
Dr Kit Yates