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For the English there is only one story tonight and it is not about politics – politicalbetting.com

24

Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    ydoethur said:

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    JohnO said:

    Tory gain in B&S surely nailed on now.

    No - this is a team with a lefty remainery vibe. Their success will help Labour if anything.
    BLM rules...
    We can already write the script.

    The Left will say it's down to BLM and Wokeness.

    The Right will say it's down to post Brexit confidence and swagger.
    And booong the German national anthem
    Of all the national anthems you are allowed to boo, surely the German one qualifies?

    “Deutschland Uber alles”

    Imagine the criticism if that was the title of the U.K. one?
    Is that it's title? I though they didn't even sing that verse anymore.

    And historical connotations aside for Germany's, aren't most anthems about how their nationis better than others?
    It's called Deutschlandlied (song of Germany) and they only sing the third verse now, which is the one that doesn't have them "uber alles"
    And the music was written by an Austrian (Haydn), who spent much of his life in what was then and still is in Hungary. Of course, I dare say he would have considered himself "German" if you asked him what his nationality was.
    Oh, and the lyrics were written on an island that at the time was British (Heligoland).
    That’s why they’re so Bighting.
    So it was us who gave them a jolly good Haydn.
    Not really. We just got a Handel on them and never let it go.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    Stereodog said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    JohnO said:

    Tory gain in B&S surely nailed on now.

    No - this is a team with a lefty remainery vibe. Their success will help Labour if anything.
    BLM rules...
    We can already write the script.

    The Left will say it's down to BLM and Wokeness.

    The Right will say it's down to post Brexit confidence and swagger.
    And booong the German national anthem
    Of all the national anthems you are allowed to boo, surely the German one qualifies?

    “Deutschland Uber alles”

    Imagine the criticism if that was the title of the U.K. one?
    Is that it's title? I though they didn't even sing that verse anymore.

    And historical connotations aside for Germany's, aren't most anthems about how their nationis better than others?
    It's called Deutschlandlied (song of Germany) and they only sing the third verse now, which is the one that doesn't have them "uber alles"
    Ah well, I’ve learnt something...
    Phrases such as Uber Alles and Uber Allen are very touchy subject. Uber alles because of the infamous Olympics under Nazi regime and uber allen was WWI propaganda.
    It's also debatable whether uber alles is in anyway sinister. When the anthem was written Germany was only recently unified so a lot of people felt more loyalty to their former state than Germany. The verse really exhorts people to put German interests above personal interests and the interests of say Hanover. No-one ever complains about the French anthem despite it being incredibly bloody and warlike.
    I think the German crowd chanting "Deutschland uber alles" over and over for Hitler at the 1936 Olympics was in fact somewhat sinister.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can we just take a minute and remember Big_G predicting Wales to go through and England to go out.

    Mmm and YOU saying we had no chance against Germany. ☺

    It's a defence mechanism after 20 years of not beating Germany in tournaments. I can't allow myself to believe, it just ends in disappointment.
    I think that led to the odds on England being bigger than they should have been tbh
    That general thinking. Our team was much better on paper
    Sadly the pitches are usually grass.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Ukraine? “Sweden”? Are these even countries, technically?

    Who the fuck speaks Swekrainian, or whatever they call it

    They should just give England the cup now, and we can let Scotch people briefly touch it once every three years on the special day they eat cooked meat under a roof

    Don't do this. You're spoiling things.
    For you, Kinabalu, for you
    No, you were writing the team off whilst I was behind them and calling it all spot on.

    So I can celebrate but you can't. If you do it's inauthentic and it spoils my glow - which is unfair because I've earned it.
    The truly painful thing here is that you slightly believe this, don’t you?
    It is a real issue, yes. I'm feeling bullish and vindicated - just generally very UP - but I can't be sharing joy with you if you're going to get all jingoistic. We need to agree on a lingua franca for celebrating England wins. Exuberant but with boundaries.
    You could just let everyone enjoy it their own way, and stop trying to police thoughts on here.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,597
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Other countries get jubilant for winning a tournament.

    England fans get jubilant for winning a second round match.

    Perhaps there's a connection.

    Oh god it's the guru of grim.
    Reality.

    England have a history of obsessing about individual matches rather than concentrating on tournaments as a whole.

    Somewhat similar to Scotland's obsession with beating England though the Scots do have the excuse of being only 10% the size of England and having sod all chance of winning a tournament.

    Compare with England's obsessions with Germany and Argentina.
    But the key thing is that didn't infect the team. They just did a job of work. No biggie. This is why it looks so good for making the final.
    Fair point.

    If they keep level heads and have a bit of luck they should reach the final.

    Anything else now would be a serious disappointment.

    Golden opportunities come around rarely in people's lives and I don't think I've ever seen a better one for an England football team.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    JohnO said:

    Tory gain in B&S surely nailed on now.

    No - this is a team with a lefty remainery vibe. Their success will help Labour if anything.
    BLM rules...
    We can already write the script.

    The Left will say it's down to BLM and Wokeness.

    The Right will say it's down to post Brexit confidence and swagger.
    And booong the German national anthem
    Of all the national anthems you are allowed to boo, surely the German one qualifies?

    “Deutschland Uber alles”

    Imagine the criticism if that was the title of the U.K. one?
    Is that it's title? I though they didn't even sing that verse anymore.

    And historical connotations aside for Germany's, aren't most anthems about how their nationis better than others?
    It's called Deutschlandlied (song of Germany) and they only sing the third verse now, which is the one that doesn't have them "uber alles"
    And the music was written by an Austrian (Haydn), who spent much of his life in what was then and still is in Hungary. Of course, I dare say he would have considered himself "German" if you asked him what his nationality was.
    Oh, and the lyrics were written on an island that at the time was British (Heligoland).
    That’s why they’re so Bighting.
    Did you really have to Dogger us with your nautical punning?
    Itsire way of passing the time.
    Oh, give Dover will you!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    I think we should drop quarantine from the EU now for the vaxxed tbh, they might want to keep it for us but that's up to them
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    JohnO said:

    Tory gain in B&S surely nailed on now.

    No - this is a team with a lefty remainery vibe. Their success will help Labour if anything.
    BLM rules...
    We can already write the script.

    The Left will say it's down to BLM and Wokeness.

    The Right will say it's down to post Brexit confidence and swagger.
    And booong the German national anthem
    Of all the national anthems you are allowed to boo, surely the German one qualifies?

    “Deutschland Uber alles”

    Imagine the criticism if that was the title of the U.K. one?
    Is that it's title? I though they didn't even sing that verse anymore.

    And historical connotations aside for Germany's, aren't most anthems about how their nationis better than others?
    It's called Deutschlandlied (song of Germany) and they only sing the third verse now, which is the one that doesn't have them "uber alles"
    And the music was written by an Austrian (Haydn), who spent much of his life in what was then and still is in Hungary. Of course, I dare say he would have considered himself "German" if you asked him what his nationality was.
    Oh, and the lyrics were written on an island that at the time was British (Heligoland).
    That’s why they’re so Bighting.
    So it was us who gave them a jolly good Haydn.
    Not really. We just got a Handel on them and never let it go.
    And England will be Bach for the next round, and Germany won't
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited June 2021

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can we just take a minute and remember Big_G predicting Wales to go through and England to go out.

    Mmm and YOU saying we had no chance against Germany. ☺
    It's a defence mechanism after 20 years of not beating Germany in tournaments. I can't allow myself to believe, it just ends in disappointment.
    Yes, fair enough. Totally understand. So you keep doing that. It's working.
    Radical Pessimism is the way forward. If enough of us insist with sufficient conviction that it will all go to pot, then the Universe will drive England to a glorious victory just to prove us all wrong.

    Now, everyone repeat: It's all going too well, they are bound to fall flat on their faces in the quarter-final, it will be an unmitigated disaster.
    Well you rather adopt that technique for most things, don't you? - It's something I've noticed.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Other countries get jubilant for winning a tournament.

    England fans get jubilant for winning a second round match.

    Perhaps there's a connection.

    Oh god it's the guru of grim.
    Reality.

    England have a history of obsessing about individual matches rather than concentrating on tournaments as a whole.

    Somewhat similar to Scotland's obsession with beating England though the Scots do have the excuse of being only 10% the size of England and having sod all chance of winning a tournament.

    Compare with England's obsessions with Germany and Argentina.
    But the key thing is that didn't infect the team. They just did a job of work. No biggie. This is why it looks so good for making the final.
    Fair point.

    If they keep level heads and have a bit of luck they should reach the final.

    Anything else now would be a serious disappointment.

    Golden opportunities come around rarely in people's lives and I don't think I've ever seen a better one for an England football team.
    Whereas they lucked in to a decent draw in 2018, they've earned it this time by topping a decent group and knocking out the Germans.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Pulpstar said:

    Hampden looks so sad with barely any fans 🙁

    You'd have thought the Scots would have piled in tonight, a rare opportunity for them to see a decent side.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,804
    Pulpstar said:

    I think we should drop quarantine from the EU now for the vaxxed tbh, they might want to keep it for us but that's up to them

    EU and US plus a few others.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can we just take a minute and remember Big_G predicting Wales to go through and England to go out.

    Mmm and YOU saying we had no chance against Germany. ☺
    It's a defence mechanism after 20 years of not beating Germany in tournaments. I can't allow myself to believe, it just ends in disappointment.
    Yes, fair enough. Totally understand. So you keep doing that. It's working.
    Radical Pessimism is the way forward. If enough of us insist with sufficient conviction that it will all go to pot, then the Universe will drive England to a glorious victory just to prove us all wrong.

    Now, everyone repeat: It's all going too well, they are bound to fall flat on their faces in the quarter-final, it will be an unmitigated disaster.
    Well you rather adopt that technique for most things, don't you? - It's something I've noticed.
    Not necessarily. Apart from a brief wobble when I thought that the ISAGE tendency might be getting the upper hand, I've been feeling broadly positive about things with regard to the Plague for several months.

    However, in this particular instance Radical Pessimism seems to be working, so I see no particular reason to stop. The result will most likely be a complete triumph, but if that doesn't come to pass then at least one will be well-prepared for the eventuality.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    rpjs said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    JohnO said:

    Tory gain in B&S surely nailed on now.

    No - this is a team with a lefty remainery vibe. Their success will help Labour if anything.
    BLM rules...
    We can already write the script.

    The Left will say it's down to BLM and Wokeness.

    The Right will say it's down to post Brexit confidence and swagger.
    And booong the German national anthem
    Of all the national anthems you are allowed to boo, surely the German one qualifies?

    “Deutschland Uber alles”

    Imagine the criticism if that was the title of the U.K. one?
    Is that it's title? I though they didn't even sing that verse anymore.

    And historical connotations aside for Germany's, aren't most anthems about how their nationis better than others?
    It's called Deutschlandlied (song of Germany) and they only sing the third verse now, which is the one that doesn't have them "uber alles"
    Ah well, I’ve learnt something...
    Phrases such as Uber Alles and Uber Allen are very touchy subject. Uber alles because of the infamous Olympics under Nazi regime and uber allen was WWI propaganda.
    I don't think "Deutschland Uber Alles" was ever used as the title, and even if it's deemed non-woke to that verse these days, the meaning was to put loyalty a united Germany above loyalty to the various monarchical states that were at the time loosely grouped into a confederation. Probably the real objection to the first verse is that it talks about the territorial limits of the old German Confederation, and mentions places that er, aren't very close to the modern borders of Germany any more.

    The second verse is not objectionable, but is about the virtues of German wine, women and song (no, really) so I guess is not serious enough to be the actual words sung at events etc.

    Interestingly, the Deutschlandlied was only adopted as the national anthem after the end of the German monarchies in 1918. Although Haydn wrote the tune as a birthday present to the Austrian (well, still Holy Roman at that point) Emperor, Hoffmann von Fallersleben's words were considered too republican for it to be officially used until Germany actually became a republic. The Imperial national anthem under Kaiser Bill etc used the same music as God Save the Queen.

    No-one seems to be very sure where that (i.e. GTSQ's) music came from but it was at one time used for the national anthems of many other countries, and still is by Liechtenstein, as well as the American patriotic song My Country 'Tis of Thee.
    Its great the tinges you learn on PB,

    Lichtenstein has the same music as the UK for its national anthem.

    The grandson of the Prince of Lichtenstein will also inherit the position of being the 'Jacobite' successor to the crones of the UK, though his mother, the wife of the next prince of Lichtenstein and also the only child of king of Bavaria, being a German she can not inherit the Bavarian crown but can inherit the UK crowns. (nobody in the family has clamed the UK titles for a long time so its all a bit irrelevant but still fun)
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 696

    Stereodog said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    JohnO said:

    Tory gain in B&S surely nailed on now.

    No - this is a team with a lefty remainery vibe. Their success will help Labour if anything.
    BLM rules...
    We can already write the script.

    The Left will say it's down to BLM and Wokeness.

    The Right will say it's down to post Brexit confidence and swagger.
    And booong the German national anthem
    Of all the national anthems you are allowed to boo, surely the German one qualifies?

    “Deutschland Uber alles”

    Imagine the criticism if that was the title of the U.K. one?
    Is that it's title? I though they didn't even sing that verse anymore.

    And historical connotations aside for Germany's, aren't most anthems about how their nationis better than others?
    It's called Deutschlandlied (song of Germany) and they only sing the third verse now, which is the one that doesn't have them "uber alles"
    Ah well, I’ve learnt something...
    Phrases such as Uber Alles and Uber Allen are very touchy subject. Uber alles because of the infamous Olympics under Nazi regime and uber allen was WWI propaganda.
    It's also debatable whether uber alles is in anyway sinister. When the anthem was written Germany was only recently unified so a lot of people felt more loyalty to their former state than Germany. The verse really exhorts people to put German interests above personal interests and the interests of say Hanover. No-one ever complains about the French anthem despite it being incredibly bloody and warlike.
    I think the German crowd chanting "Deutschland uber alles" over and over for Hitler at the 1936 Olympics was in fact somewhat sinister.
    True but that was the Nazis appropriating something that already existed. They did it with all kinds of things like Wagnerian imagery which is why they were successful. On that point Hitler said that Mosley should have called his followers the Ironsides instead of the Black Shirts as it was more properly English.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    TimT said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    JohnO said:

    Tory gain in B&S surely nailed on now.

    No - this is a team with a lefty remainery vibe. Their success will help Labour if anything.
    BLM rules...
    We can already write the script.

    The Left will say it's down to BLM and Wokeness.

    The Right will say it's down to post Brexit confidence and swagger.
    And booong the German national anthem
    Of all the national anthems you are allowed to boo, surely the German one qualifies?

    “Deutschland Uber alles”

    Imagine the criticism if that was the title of the U.K. one?
    Is that it's title? I though they didn't even sing that verse anymore.

    And historical connotations aside for Germany's, aren't most anthems about how their nationis better than others?
    It's called Deutschlandlied (song of Germany) and they only sing the third verse now, which is the one that doesn't have them "uber alles"
    And the music was written by an Austrian (Haydn), who spent much of his life in what was then and still is in Hungary. Of course, I dare say he would have considered himself "German" if you asked him what his nationality was.
    Oh, and the lyrics were written on an island that at the time was British (Heligoland).
    That’s why they’re so Bighting.
    So it was us who gave them a jolly good Haydn.
    Not really. We just got a Handel on them and never let it go.
    And England will be Bach for the next round, and Germany won't
    Have we ticked that off our Liszt?

    Good night.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Pulpstar said:

    Hampden looks so sad with barely any fans 🙁

    You'd have thought the Scots would have piled in tonight, a rare opportunity for them to see a decent side.
    I quite like the new Hampden, the old Hampden looked like the poor man's Villa Park.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    Stereodog said:

    Stereodog said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    JohnO said:

    Tory gain in B&S surely nailed on now.

    No - this is a team with a lefty remainery vibe. Their success will help Labour if anything.
    BLM rules...
    We can already write the script.

    The Left will say it's down to BLM and Wokeness.

    The Right will say it's down to post Brexit confidence and swagger.
    And booong the German national anthem
    Of all the national anthems you are allowed to boo, surely the German one qualifies?

    “Deutschland Uber alles”

    Imagine the criticism if that was the title of the U.K. one?
    Is that it's title? I though they didn't even sing that verse anymore.

    And historical connotations aside for Germany's, aren't most anthems about how their nationis better than others?
    It's called Deutschlandlied (song of Germany) and they only sing the third verse now, which is the one that doesn't have them "uber alles"
    Ah well, I’ve learnt something...
    Phrases such as Uber Alles and Uber Allen are very touchy subject. Uber alles because of the infamous Olympics under Nazi regime and uber allen was WWI propaganda.
    It's also debatable whether uber alles is in anyway sinister. When the anthem was written Germany was only recently unified so a lot of people felt more loyalty to their former state than Germany. The verse really exhorts people to put German interests above personal interests and the interests of say Hanover. No-one ever complains about the French anthem despite it being incredibly bloody and warlike.
    I think the German crowd chanting "Deutschland uber alles" over and over for Hitler at the 1936 Olympics was in fact somewhat sinister.
    True but that was the Nazis appropriating something that already existed. They did it with all kinds of things like Wagnerian imagery which is why they were successful. On that point Hitler said that Mosley should have called his followers the Ironsides instead of the Black Shirts as it was more properly English.
    Sure but given that connection, it's rather hard to de-sinisterise the uber alles bit!
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Pulpstar said:

    I think we should drop quarantine from the EU now for the vaxxed tbh, they might want to keep it for us but that's up to them

    We should do this now for everywhere, or at lest everywhere with lower ratees per million than us which is almost the same thing, and for the unvaxed, they are going to get it sooner or latter, might as well be on holiday.

    Most places will probably not let us in, so it will make little difference in the sort term, but why are we making it harder than it has to be.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    BigRich said:

    rpjs said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    JohnO said:

    Tory gain in B&S surely nailed on now.

    No - this is a team with a lefty remainery vibe. Their success will help Labour if anything.
    BLM rules...
    We can already write the script.

    The Left will say it's down to BLM and Wokeness.

    The Right will say it's down to post Brexit confidence and swagger.
    And booong the German national anthem
    Of all the national anthems you are allowed to boo, surely the German one qualifies?

    “Deutschland Uber alles”

    Imagine the criticism if that was the title of the U.K. one?
    Is that it's title? I though they didn't even sing that verse anymore.

    And historical connotations aside for Germany's, aren't most anthems about how their nationis better than others?
    It's called Deutschlandlied (song of Germany) and they only sing the third verse now, which is the one that doesn't have them "uber alles"
    Ah well, I’ve learnt something...
    Phrases such as Uber Alles and Uber Allen are very touchy subject. Uber alles because of the infamous Olympics under Nazi regime and uber allen was WWI propaganda.
    I don't think "Deutschland Uber Alles" was ever used as the title, and even if it's deemed non-woke to that verse these days, the meaning was to put loyalty a united Germany above loyalty to the various monarchical states that were at the time loosely grouped into a confederation. Probably the real objection to the first verse is that it talks about the territorial limits of the old German Confederation, and mentions places that er, aren't very close to the modern borders of Germany any more.

    The second verse is not objectionable, but is about the virtues of German wine, women and song (no, really) so I guess is not serious enough to be the actual words sung at events etc.

    Interestingly, the Deutschlandlied was only adopted as the national anthem after the end of the German monarchies in 1918. Although Haydn wrote the tune as a birthday present to the Austrian (well, still Holy Roman at that point) Emperor, Hoffmann von Fallersleben's words were considered too republican for it to be officially used until Germany actually became a republic. The Imperial national anthem under Kaiser Bill etc used the same music as God Save the Queen.

    No-one seems to be very sure where that (i.e. GTSQ's) music came from but it was at one time used for the national anthems of many other countries, and still is by Liechtenstein, as well as the American patriotic song My Country 'Tis of Thee.
    Its great the tinges you learn on PB,

    Lichtenstein has the same music as the UK for its national anthem.

    The grandson of the Prince of Lichtenstein will also inherit the position of being the 'Jacobite' successor to the crones of the UK, though his mother, the wife of the next prince of Lichtenstein and also the only child of king of Bavaria, being a German she can not inherit the Bavarian crown but can inherit the UK crowns. (nobody in the family has clamed the UK titles for a long time so its all a bit irrelevant but still fun)
    He's welcome to our crones.....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    I have to say I find Leon's support for the England football team about as convincing as Gordon Brown's was

    Mate, I was so depressed by Southgate's STUPID FUCKING PENALTY MISS it helped spin me back into heroin addiction which took another 5 years out of my life, and damaged me forever. I am not joking. Why would I joke about something so pathetic and embarrassing?

    If anything, I cared far too much about England and football for a long time, it was after that disaster that I wisely decided to disinvest. emotionally. I still really care, I just don't care anywhere near as much, thank God

    It is strange how sport and fandom can overwhelm your life, no one has analysed it better than Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch, which remains an absolute masterpiece

    But even at my lowered emotional temperature I still have an in-built allergy to playing Germany at football in knockouts. It is not an inferiority complex, as such, the English - for good reason - don't suffer from those. It is a *hoodoo*. Every country has them, in sport. Ours v Germany has just been dispelled. Yay
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 696
    BigRich said:

    rpjs said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    JohnO said:

    Tory gain in B&S surely nailed on now.

    No - this is a team with a lefty remainery vibe. Their success will help Labour if anything.
    BLM rules...
    We can already write the script.

    The Left will say it's down to BLM and Wokeness.

    The Right will say it's down to post Brexit confidence and swagger.
    And booong the German national anthem
    Of all the national anthems you are allowed to boo, surely the German one qualifies?

    “Deutschland Uber alles”

    Imagine the criticism if that was the title of the U.K. one?
    Is that it's title? I though they didn't even sing that verse anymore.

    And historical connotations aside for Germany's, aren't most anthems about how their nationis better than others?
    It's called Deutschlandlied (song of Germany) and they only sing the third verse now, which is the one that doesn't have them "uber alles"
    Ah well, I’ve learnt something...
    Phrases such as Uber Alles and Uber Allen are very touchy subject. Uber alles because of the infamous Olympics under Nazi regime and uber allen was WWI propaganda.
    I don't think "Deutschland Uber Alles" was ever used as the title, and even if it's deemed non-woke to that verse these days, the meaning was to put loyalty a united Germany above loyalty to the various monarchical states that were at the time loosely grouped into a confederation. Probably the real objection to the first verse is that it talks about the territorial limits of the old German Confederation, and mentions places that er, aren't very close to the modern borders of Germany any more.

    The second verse is not objectionable, but is about the virtues of German wine, women and song (no, really) so I guess is not serious enough to be the actual words sung at events etc.

    Interestingly, the Deutschlandlied was only adopted as the national anthem after the end of the German monarchies in 1918. Although Haydn wrote the tune as a birthday present to the Austrian (well, still Holy Roman at that point) Emperor, Hoffmann von Fallersleben's words were considered too republican for it to be officially used until Germany actually became a republic. The Imperial national anthem under Kaiser Bill etc used the same music as God Save the Queen.

    No-one seems to be very sure where that (i.e. GTSQ's) music came from but it was at one time used for the national anthems of many other countries, and still is by Liechtenstein, as well as the American patriotic song My Country 'Tis of Thee.
    Its great the tinges you learn on PB,

    Lichtenstein has the same music as the UK for its national anthem.

    The grandson of the Prince of Lichtenstein will also inherit the position of being the 'Jacobite' successor to the crones of the UK, though his mother, the wife of the next prince of Lichtenstein and also the only child of king of Bavaria, being a German she can not inherit the Bavarian crown but can inherit the UK crowns. (nobody in the family has clamed the UK titles for a long time so its all a bit irrelevant but still fun)
    Church goers of a certain age may remember that the tune of the German national anthem is also used for the hymn "Glorious Things Of Thee Are Spoken" written by John Newton. The Austrian Emperor was reportedly very surprised to hear the tune playing in Queen Victoria's chapel during a visit.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    BigRich said:

    rpjs said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    JohnO said:

    Tory gain in B&S surely nailed on now.

    No - this is a team with a lefty remainery vibe. Their success will help Labour if anything.
    BLM rules...
    We can already write the script.

    The Left will say it's down to BLM and Wokeness.

    The Right will say it's down to post Brexit confidence and swagger.
    And booong the German national anthem
    Of all the national anthems you are allowed to boo, surely the German one qualifies?

    “Deutschland Uber alles”

    Imagine the criticism if that was the title of the U.K. one?
    Is that it's title? I though they didn't even sing that verse anymore.

    And historical connotations aside for Germany's, aren't most anthems about how their nationis better than others?
    It's called Deutschlandlied (song of Germany) and they only sing the third verse now, which is the one that doesn't have them "uber alles"
    Ah well, I’ve learnt something...
    Phrases such as Uber Alles and Uber Allen are very touchy subject. Uber alles because of the infamous Olympics under Nazi regime and uber allen was WWI propaganda.
    I don't think "Deutschland Uber Alles" was ever used as the title, and even if it's deemed non-woke to that verse these days, the meaning was to put loyalty a united Germany above loyalty to the various monarchical states that were at the time loosely grouped into a confederation. Probably the real objection to the first verse is that it talks about the territorial limits of the old German Confederation, and mentions places that er, aren't very close to the modern borders of Germany any more.

    The second verse is not objectionable, but is about the virtues of German wine, women and song (no, really) so I guess is not serious enough to be the actual words sung at events etc.

    Interestingly, the Deutschlandlied was only adopted as the national anthem after the end of the German monarchies in 1918. Although Haydn wrote the tune as a birthday present to the Austrian (well, still Holy Roman at that point) Emperor, Hoffmann von Fallersleben's words were considered too republican for it to be officially used until Germany actually became a republic. The Imperial national anthem under Kaiser Bill etc used the same music as God Save the Queen.

    No-one seems to be very sure where that (i.e. GTSQ's) music came from but it was at one time used for the national anthems of many other countries, and still is by Liechtenstein, as well as the American patriotic song My Country 'Tis of Thee.
    Its great the tinges you learn on PB,

    Lichtenstein has the same music as the UK for its national anthem.

    The grandson of the Prince of Lichtenstein will also inherit the position of being the 'Jacobite' successor to the crones of the UK, though his mother, the wife of the next prince of Lichtenstein and also the only child of king of Bavaria, being a German she can not inherit the Bavarian crown but can inherit the UK crowns. (nobody in the family has clamed the UK titles for a long time so its all a bit irrelevant but still fun)
    He's welcome to our crones.....
    Iv done a dyslesick again, sorry, but tonight I care even less than normal :)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    I have to say I find Leon's support for the England football team about as convincing as Gordon Brown's was

    Mate, I was so depressed by Southgate's STUPID FUCKING PENALTY MISS it helped spin me back into heroin addiction which took another 5 years out of my life, and damaged me forever. I am not joking. Why would I joke about something so pathetic and embarrassing?

    If anything, I cared far too much about England and football for a long time, it was after that disaster that I wisely decided to disinvest. emotionally. I still really care, I just don't care anywhere near as much, thank God

    It is strange how sport and fandom can overwhelm your life, no one has analysed it better than Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch, which remains an absolute masterpiece

    But even at my lowered emotional temperature I still have an in-built allergy to playing Germany at football in knockouts. It is not an inferiority complex, as such, the English - for good reason - don't suffer from those. It is a *hoodoo*. Every country has them, in sport. Ours v Germany has just been dispelled. Yay
    Agreed. Redemption. 90 and 96 were indelible memories until today.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited June 2021
    Leon said:

    I have to say I find Leon's support for the England football team about as convincing as Gordon Brown's was

    Mate, I was so depressed by Southgate's STUPID FUCKING PENALTY MISS it helped spin me back into heroin addiction which took another 5 years out of my life, and damaged me forever. I am not joking. Why would I joke about something so pathetic and embarrassing?

    If anything, I cared far too much about England and football for a long time, it was after that disaster that I wisely decided to disinvest. emotionally. I still really care, I just don't care anywhere near as much, thank God

    It is strange how sport and fandom can overwhelm your life, no one has analysed it better than Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch, which remains an absolute masterpiece

    But even at my lowered emotional temperature I still have an in-built allergy to playing Germany at football in knockouts. It is not an inferiority complex, as such, the English - for good reason - don't suffer from those. It is a *hoodoo*. Every country has them, in sport. Ours v Germany has just been dispelled. Yay
    I read Fever Pitch for the first time recently. I'd avoided it for fear of it being too close to the bone. Hornby's experience of Cambridge was horribly similar to my experience of Oxford, except I didn't have to slum it at Oxford United as I could watch Arsenal in the pub.

    One Saturday afternoon, we had lunch at my tutor's in Woodstock and then went for a walk around Blenheim Palace gardens. I had to come up with some excuse to leave early to get back into Oxford to get to the pub in time for Blackburn v Arsenal. It actually pains me to think about how badly I was addicted to Arsenal.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Ukraine? “Sweden”? Are these even countries, technically?

    Who the fuck speaks Swekrainian, or whatever they call it

    They should just give England the cup now, and we can let Scotch people briefly touch it once every three years on the special day they eat cooked meat under a roof

    Don't do this. You're spoiling things.
    For you, Kinabalu, for you
    No, you were writing the team off whilst I was behind them and calling it all spot on.

    So I can celebrate but you can't. If you do it's inauthentic and it spoils my glow - which is unfair because I've earned it.
    The truly painful thing here is that you slightly believe this, don’t you?
    It is a real issue, yes. I'm feeling bullish and vindicated - just generally very UP - but I can't be sharing joy with you if you're going to get all jingoistic. We need to agree on a lingua franca for celebrating England wins. Exuberant but with boundaries.
    You could just let everyone enjoy it their own way, and stop trying to police thoughts on here.
    Just let everything go and be a chap? That would be too easy. Couldn't live with myself if I did that. Not how I was raised.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Leon said:

    I have to say I find Leon's support for the England football team about as convincing as Gordon Brown's was

    Mate, I was so depressed by Southgate's STUPID FUCKING PENALTY MISS it helped spin me back into heroin addiction which took another 5 years out of my life, and damaged me forever. I am not joking. Why would I joke about something so pathetic and embarrassing?

    If anything, I cared far too much about England and football for a long time, it was after that disaster that I wisely decided to disinvest. emotionally. I still really care, I just don't care anywhere near as much, thank God

    It is strange how sport and fandom can overwhelm your life, no one has analysed it better than Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch, which remains an absolute masterpiece

    But even at my lowered emotional temperature I still have an in-built allergy to playing Germany at football in knockouts. It is not an inferiority complex, as such, the English - for good reason - don't suffer from those. It is a *hoodoo*. Every country has them, in sport. Ours v Germany has just been dispelled. Yay
    Agreed. Redemption. 90 and 96 were indelible memories until today.
    I was in Quito for 90. It bugged me hugely that all the locals were supporting Germany. England has few non-native supporters anywhere, I have since learned and come to accept.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,150

    kle4 said:

    Other countries get jubilant for winning a tournament.

    England fans get jubilant for winning a second round match.

    Perhaps there's a connection.

    When you're expectations are so low, any improvement looks like a win.

    I believe that's the pitch of about six different political parties too.
    When routine bites hard and ambitions are low

    And resentment rides high but emotions won't grow

    And we're changing our ways, taking different roads

    Love, love will tear us apart again

    Love, love will tear us apart again
    Who's that from?

    Some 1970s lift music?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,804

    Leon said:

    I have to say I find Leon's support for the England football team about as convincing as Gordon Brown's was

    Mate, I was so depressed by Southgate's STUPID FUCKING PENALTY MISS it helped spin me back into heroin addiction which took another 5 years out of my life, and damaged me forever. I am not joking. Why would I joke about something so pathetic and embarrassing?

    If anything, I cared far too much about England and football for a long time, it was after that disaster that I wisely decided to disinvest. emotionally. I still really care, I just don't care anywhere near as much, thank God

    It is strange how sport and fandom can overwhelm your life, no one has analysed it better than Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch, which remains an absolute masterpiece

    But even at my lowered emotional temperature I still have an in-built allergy to playing Germany at football in knockouts. It is not an inferiority complex, as such, the English - for good reason - don't suffer from those. It is a *hoodoo*. Every country has them, in sport. Ours v Germany has just been dispelled. Yay
    Agreed. Redemption. 90 and 96 were indelible memories until today.
    Yup, knocking Germany out has been a very cathartic experience for every English football fan. It heals a lot of open wounds for us.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    “For the English”??

    Surely the rest of the Celtic British nations - Ireland, Wales, that one with midges - are joining in the jubilation of the dominant nation, England? In a festival of British pride?


    Anyway. Beating Germany. In a knockout. What a pleasant feeling

    One can’t help noticing that this has not happened since we joined the European Union. As soon as we Brexit - bingo

    The nation advances

    We only beat Germany in the Euros when we take the knee...

    Weren't you one of the folk supporting Anyone But England just two weeks ago?
    Talking of fishy calls, how is your dismissal of this tournament as “bloated” before a ball was kicked going?
    I think it is. Too many going through from the group stages.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Extra time would suit England........
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,150
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think we should drop quarantine from the EU now for the vaxxed tbh, they might want to keep it for us but that's up to them

    EU and US plus a few others.
    Will this happen?

    I was being beaten over the head with it by a Scot-Pole this afternoon.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Ukraine? “Sweden”? Are these even countries, technically?

    Who the fuck speaks Swekrainian, or whatever they call it

    They should just give England the cup now, and we can let Scotch people briefly touch it once every three years on the special day they eat cooked meat under a roof

    Don't do this. You're spoiling things.
    For you, Kinabalu, for you
    No, you were writing the team off whilst I was behind them and calling it all spot on.

    So I can celebrate but you can't. If you do it's inauthentic and it spoils my glow - which is unfair because I've earned it.
    The truly painful thing here is that you slightly believe this, don’t you?
    It is a real issue, yes. I'm feeling bullish and vindicated - just generally very UP - but I can't be sharing joy with you if you're going to get all jingoistic. We need to agree on a lingua franca for celebrating England wins. Exuberant but with boundaries.
    You could just let everyone enjoy it their own way, and stop trying to police thoughts on here.
    Just let everything go and be a chap? That would be too easy. Couldn't live with myself if I did that. Not how I was raised.
    At least stop pretending (or imagining) you can mind read. We all know you can't.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Leon said:

    I have to say I find Leon's support for the England football team about as convincing as Gordon Brown's was

    Mate, I was so depressed by Southgate's STUPID FUCKING PENALTY MISS it helped spin me back into heroin addiction which took another 5 years out of my life, and damaged me forever. I am not joking. Why would I joke about something so pathetic and embarrassing?

    If anything, I cared far too much about England and football for a long time, it was after that disaster that I wisely decided to disinvest. emotionally. I still really care, I just don't care anywhere near as much, thank God

    It is strange how sport and fandom can overwhelm your life, no one has analysed it better than Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch, which remains an absolute masterpiece

    But even at my lowered emotional temperature I still have an in-built allergy to playing Germany at football in knockouts. It is not an inferiority complex, as such, the English - for good reason - don't suffer from those. It is a *hoodoo*. Every country has them, in sport. Ours v Germany has just been dispelled. Yay
    Agreed. Redemption. 90 and 96 were indelible memories until today.
    I'm too young to remember 90, and for some reason I didn't feel that bad about 96. I remember being annoyed about 98 because we should have beaten Argentina (but we'd probably lost to Holland or Brazil or France).

    The one that really hurt was 2002. We watched it at school and I felt so down about it. Maybe it's because I honestly thought it was really the final and whoever won that game would win the whole thing.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021

    Extra time would suit England........

    I’m cheering on the cards, in this game.

    The more bookings, the better for England
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    I have to say I find Leon's support for the England football team about as convincing as Gordon Brown's was

    Mate, I was so depressed by Southgate's STUPID FUCKING PENALTY MISS it helped spin me back into heroin addiction which took another 5 years out of my life, and damaged me forever. I am not joking. Why would I joke about something so pathetic and embarrassing?

    If anything, I cared far too much about England and football for a long time, it was after that disaster that I wisely decided to disinvest. emotionally. I still really care, I just don't care anywhere near as much, thank God

    It is strange how sport and fandom can overwhelm your life, no one has analysed it better than Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch, which remains an absolute masterpiece

    But even at my lowered emotional temperature I still have an in-built allergy to playing Germany at football in knockouts. It is not an inferiority complex, as such, the English - for good reason - don't suffer from those. It is a *hoodoo*. Every country has them, in sport. Ours v Germany has just been dispelled. Yay
    Agreed. Redemption. 90 and 96 were indelible memories until today.
    I was in Quito for 90. It bugged me hugely that all the locals were supporting Germany. England has few non-native supporters anywhere, I have since learned and come to accept.
    I watched the 1990 SF in the emergency dept waiting room in a New Zealand hospital. The patients were watching too, and no one wanted to be seen until it was over.

    Mind you, when the All Blacks played the Wallabies no one even came to the Emergency Dept for two hours!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    BigRich said:

    BigRich said:

    rpjs said:

    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    JohnO said:

    Tory gain in B&S surely nailed on now.

    No - this is a team with a lefty remainery vibe. Their success will help Labour if anything.
    BLM rules...
    We can already write the script.

    The Left will say it's down to BLM and Wokeness.

    The Right will say it's down to post Brexit confidence and swagger.
    And booong the German national anthem
    Of all the national anthems you are allowed to boo, surely the German one qualifies?

    “Deutschland Uber alles”

    Imagine the criticism if that was the title of the U.K. one?
    Is that it's title? I though they didn't even sing that verse anymore.

    And historical connotations aside for Germany's, aren't most anthems about how their nationis better than others?
    It's called Deutschlandlied (song of Germany) and they only sing the third verse now, which is the one that doesn't have them "uber alles"
    Ah well, I’ve learnt something...
    Phrases such as Uber Alles and Uber Allen are very touchy subject. Uber alles because of the infamous Olympics under Nazi regime and uber allen was WWI propaganda.
    I don't think "Deutschland Uber Alles" was ever used as the title, and even if it's deemed non-woke to that verse these days, the meaning was to put loyalty a united Germany above loyalty to the various monarchical states that were at the time loosely grouped into a confederation. Probably the real objection to the first verse is that it talks about the territorial limits of the old German Confederation, and mentions places that er, aren't very close to the modern borders of Germany any more.

    The second verse is not objectionable, but is about the virtues of German wine, women and song (no, really) so I guess is not serious enough to be the actual words sung at events etc.

    Interestingly, the Deutschlandlied was only adopted as the national anthem after the end of the German monarchies in 1918. Although Haydn wrote the tune as a birthday present to the Austrian (well, still Holy Roman at that point) Emperor, Hoffmann von Fallersleben's words were considered too republican for it to be officially used until Germany actually became a republic. The Imperial national anthem under Kaiser Bill etc used the same music as God Save the Queen.

    No-one seems to be very sure where that (i.e. GTSQ's) music came from but it was at one time used for the national anthems of many other countries, and still is by Liechtenstein, as well as the American patriotic song My Country 'Tis of Thee.
    Its great the tinges you learn on PB,

    Lichtenstein has the same music as the UK for its national anthem.

    The grandson of the Prince of Lichtenstein will also inherit the position of being the 'Jacobite' successor to the crones of the UK, though his mother, the wife of the next prince of Lichtenstein and also the only child of king of Bavaria, being a German she can not inherit the Bavarian crown but can inherit the UK crowns. (nobody in the family has clamed the UK titles for a long time so its all a bit irrelevant but still fun)
    He's welcome to our crones.....
    Iv done a dyslesick again, sorry, but tonight I care even less than normal :)
    Enjoy your night - and please excuse my gentle ribbing of your affliction. It was a corker though! (You could have got away with telling us you had crone's disease instead!)

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    “it is not about politics”

    Ho ho.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    I have to say I find Leon's support for the England football team about as convincing as Gordon Brown's was

    Mate, I was so depressed by Southgate's STUPID FUCKING PENALTY MISS it helped spin me back into heroin addiction which took another 5 years out of my life, and damaged me forever. I am not joking. Why would I joke about something so pathetic and embarrassing?

    If anything, I cared far too much about England and football for a long time, it was after that disaster that I wisely decided to disinvest. emotionally. I still really care, I just don't care anywhere near as much, thank God

    It is strange how sport and fandom can overwhelm your life, no one has analysed it better than Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch, which remains an absolute masterpiece

    But even at my lowered emotional temperature I still have an in-built allergy to playing Germany at football in knockouts. It is not an inferiority complex, as such, the English - for good reason - don't suffer from those. It is a *hoodoo*. Every country has them, in sport. Ours v Germany has just been dispelled. Yay
    Come on, the heroin years weren't so bad surely.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    I have to say I find Leon's support for the England football team about as convincing as Gordon Brown's was

    Mate, I was so depressed by Southgate's STUPID FUCKING PENALTY MISS it helped spin me back into heroin addiction which took another 5 years out of my life, and damaged me forever. I am not joking. Why would I joke about something so pathetic and embarrassing?

    If anything, I cared far too much about England and football for a long time, it was after that disaster that I wisely decided to disinvest. emotionally. I still really care, I just don't care anywhere near as much, thank God

    It is strange how sport and fandom can overwhelm your life, no one has analysed it better than Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch, which remains an absolute masterpiece

    But even at my lowered emotional temperature I still have an in-built allergy to playing Germany at football in knockouts. It is not an inferiority complex, as such, the English - for good reason - don't suffer from those. It is a *hoodoo*. Every country has them, in sport. Ours v Germany has just been dispelled. Yay
    I read Fever Pitch for the first time recently. I'd avoided it for fear of it being too close to the bone. Hornby's experience of Cambridge was horribly similar to my experience of Oxford, except I didn't have to slum it at Oxford United as I could watch Arsenal in the pub.

    One Saturday afternoon, we had lunch at my tutor's in Woodstock and then went for a walk around Blenheim Palace gardens. I had to come up with some excuse to leave early to get back into Oxford to get to the pub in time for Blackburn v Arsenal. It actually pains me to think about how badly I was addicted to Arsenal.
    It's a genius book.

    I was addicted to Leeds Utd as a boy, such that I could name their third reserve goalkeeper. I grew up in the west country FFS, so I had no link, and I supported Hereford Utd as my local team. But my mood could be ruled for weeks by how Leeds did. Bonkers

    Hornby identifies a moment - around 16-20 years old - when he almost abandoned total Arsenal fandom and nearly became a normal person. I did that, I abandoned Leeds UFC and suddenly did more drugs and had more sex and went to more parties, it was a positive thing for me. But I could easily have gone the other way, for good or bad

    Instead my football fandom became more sporadic and wider. I enjoyed club football but my passion was engaged by England, and it was also bound with patriotic fervour and made worse by that, probably

    These days is is national level rugby that gives me heart attacks, and sometimes cricket. Also Southgate

  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    Extra time in Glasgae
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    Everyone talking about the German hoodoo, but have we forgotten 5-1 in 2001? I know that was a qualifier, not a tournament match, but it shattered the German mystique for me.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,804
    MattW said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think we should drop quarantine from the EU now for the vaxxed tbh, they might want to keep it for us but that's up to them

    EU and US plus a few others.
    Will this happen?

    I was being beaten over the head with it by a Scot-Pole this afternoon.
    I think the government are in talks for mutual recognition of apps with the EU and the US. Not sure about other countries though. We might hold off on vaccine entry the end of July when 80%+ will have done both doses.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    tlg86 said:

    Sweden v Ukraine has been pretty good so far. I'm thinking that Sweden would be the tougher opponent, but I'm not sure there's much in it.

    I want Ukraine to win. They owe us a couple of own goals for sending our gunboat to emphasise their sovereignty over Crimea.....
    “us”

    I thought it was a Yookay (and a Dutch) gunboat.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,804

    Extra time would suit England........

    Hoping for lots of red cards!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,150
    Talking of Ukraine, we just signed a £1bn+ business deal with them.

    Various Naval ships and bases.

    But there may be a degree of re-announcement happening, methinks.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021

    Everyone talking about the German hoodoo, but have we forgotten 5-1 in 2001? I know that was a qualifier, not a tournament match, but it shattered the German mystique for me.

    Yes. I kept thinking that, when the commentary seemed to completely ignore it. It obviously didn’t fit the narrative for today’s game.

    A massive result at the time. I remember it clearly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I have to say I find Leon's support for the England football team about as convincing as Gordon Brown's was

    Mate, I was so depressed by Southgate's STUPID FUCKING PENALTY MISS it helped spin me back into heroin addiction which took another 5 years out of my life, and damaged me forever. I am not joking. Why would I joke about something so pathetic and embarrassing?

    If anything, I cared far too much about England and football for a long time, it was after that disaster that I wisely decided to disinvest. emotionally. I still really care, I just don't care anywhere near as much, thank God

    It is strange how sport and fandom can overwhelm your life, no one has analysed it better than Nick Hornby in Fever Pitch, which remains an absolute masterpiece

    But even at my lowered emotional temperature I still have an in-built allergy to playing Germany at football in knockouts. It is not an inferiority complex, as such, the English - for good reason - don't suffer from those. It is a *hoodoo*. Every country has them, in sport. Ours v Germany has just been dispelled. Yay
    Come on, the heroin years weren't so bad surely.
    It was a game of two halves. Truly

    My real smack addiction lasted about 14 years, with time-outs. The first seven years were total fun, the second.... hmm....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    MattW said:

    Talking of Ukraine, we just signed a £1bn+ business deal with them.

    Various Naval ships and bases.

    But there may be a degree of re-announcement happening, methinks.

    Yes, I think Ukraine wants to be in NATO, as well as the EU. Best do it in baby steps I think.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Ukraine? “Sweden”? Are these even countries, technically?

    Who the fuck speaks Swekrainian, or whatever they call it

    They should just give England the cup now, and we can let Scotch people briefly touch it once every three years on the special day they eat cooked meat under a roof

    Don't do this. You're spoiling things.
    For you, Kinabalu, for you
    No, you were writing the team off whilst I was behind them and calling it all spot on.

    So I can celebrate but you can't. If you do it's inauthentic and it spoils my glow - which is unfair because I've earned it.
    The truly painful thing here is that you slightly believe this, don’t you?
    It is a real issue, yes. I'm feeling bullish and vindicated - just generally very UP - but I can't be sharing joy with you if you're going to get all jingoistic. We need to agree on a lingua franca for celebrating England wins. Exuberant but with boundaries.
    You could just let everyone enjoy it their own way, and stop trying to police thoughts on here.
    Just let everything go and be a chap? That would be too easy. Couldn't live with myself if I did that. Not how I was raised.
    At least stop pretending (or imagining) you can mind read. We all know you can't.
    I can't mind read - but given written material to work with, I can do a lot. Hence why I find PB so fascinating. People really express themselves on here, often unwittingly.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Why does SeanT keep changing monicker?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    tlg86 said:

    Sweden v Ukraine has been pretty good so far. I'm thinking that Sweden would be the tougher opponent, but I'm not sure there's much in it.

    I want Ukraine to win. They owe us a couple of own goals for sending our gunboat to emphasise their sovereignty over Crimea.....
    “us”

    I thought it was a Yookay (and a Dutch) gunboat.
    England is part of the UK. Thus "us" is perfectly reasonable for any of the home nations to use it.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Why does SeanT keep changing monicker?

    Two possible explanations. To evade the ban. Or to deny to himself quite how many posts he has on this board.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Ukraine? “Sweden”? Are these even countries, technically?

    Who the fuck speaks Swekrainian, or whatever they call it

    They should just give England the cup now, and we can let Scotch people briefly touch it once every three years on the special day they eat cooked meat under a roof

    Don't do this. You're spoiling things.
    For you, Kinabalu, for you
    No, you were writing the team off whilst I was behind them and calling it all spot on.

    So I can celebrate but you can't. If you do it's inauthentic and it spoils my glow - which is unfair because I've earned it.
    The truly painful thing here is that you slightly believe this, don’t you?
    It is a real issue, yes. I'm feeling bullish and vindicated - just generally very UP - but I can't be sharing joy with you if you're going to get all jingoistic. We need to agree on a lingua franca for celebrating England wins. Exuberant but with boundaries.
    You could just let everyone enjoy it their own way, and stop trying to police thoughts on here.
    Just let everything go and be a chap? That would be too easy. Couldn't live with myself if I did that. Not how I was raised.
    At least stop pretending (or imagining) you can mind read. We all know you can't.
    I can't mind read - but given written material to work with, I imagine I can do a lot. Hence why I find PB so fascinating. People really express themselves on here, often unwittingly.
    FTFY
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Everyone talking about the German hoodoo, but have we forgotten 5-1 in 2001? I know that was a qualifier, not a tournament match, but it shattered the German mystique for me.

    I watched that from Tampa Bay, Florida. Fantastic day.

    I think that's why I found 2002 so frustrating. We won 5-1 in Germany, beat Argentina in the group stage but then came up against Brazil in the quarters.

    In hindsight, the mistake was not winning the group. We should have beaten Nigeria. Perhaps Senegal in the Last 16 would have been tougher than Denmark, but we'd have probably had more of a chance had we played Brazil at night in the semi final.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Suffering your first trauma with the England football team as a child is a bit like breaking up with your first love. You never fully get over it, though time’s a healer. In this case, a very long time but we got there in the end!

    That sobbing German girl in the pictures at the end is every one of us, be it 1970, 90, 96 or whenever else. You’ll be ok lass. Just not tonight.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Pulpstar said:

    Hampden looks so sad with barely any fans 🙁

    You'd have thought the Scots would have piled in tonight, a rare opportunity for them to see a decent side.
    I quite like the new Hampden, the old Hampden looked like the poor man's Villa Park.
    Once the largest stadium in the world.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,989
    The hoodoo will only finally be laid to rest after we go to extra time and beat Germany on penalties. Otherwise every time we play them in a knock out there will be that lingering fear of going the whole distance and drawing.

    1998 was the height of England’s ridiculous penchant for revelling in heroic defeat. I mean honestly, we went out in the second round and you’d have thought we’d nearly made the final. Still, that last half and then extra time was one of the most stressful and nail biting football experiences I can remember.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    moonshine said:

    Suffering your first trauma with the England football team as a child is a bit like breaking up with your first love. You never fully get over it, though time’s a healer. In this case, a very long time but we got there in the end!

    That sobbing German girl in the pictures at the end is every one of us, be it 1970, 90, 96 or whenever else. You’ll be ok lass. Just not tonight.

    For me it was the injustice of the maradona handball. First realised that life could be unfair, and uefa wasn’t going to order the game replayed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    moonshine said:

    Suffering your first trauma with the England football team as a child is a bit like breaking up with your first love. You never fully get over it, though time’s a healer. In this case, a very long time but we got there in the end!

    That sobbing German girl in the pictures at the end is every one of us, be it 1970, 90, 96 or whenever else. You’ll be ok lass. Just not tonight.

    Yes, it was good to see their children cry

    I mean that in a nice way. Our children cried for 40 fecking years. And it is JUST A GAME
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    TimT said:

    Why does SeanT keep changing monicker?

    Two possible explanations. To evade the ban. Or to deny to himself quite how many posts he has on this board.
    As I said earlier, I can’t understand how any PBers manage to keep down a job. All the regulars are totally unemployable. So, whether Sean has made 10,000 posts or 500,000 posts is irrelevant, he’s still a waster.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    This is the worst game yet. Fuck
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    TimS said:

    The hoodoo will only finally be laid to rest after we go to extra time and beat Germany on penalties. Otherwise every time we play them in a knock out there will be that lingering fear of going the whole distance and drawing.

    1998 was the height of England’s ridiculous penchant for revelling in heroic defeat. I mean honestly, we went out in the second round and you’d have thought we’d nearly made the final. Still, that last half and then extra time was one of the most stressful and nail biting football experiences I can remember.

    I think because we were denied a legal goal (sol Campbell?) made it worse.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    That's a red.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    Red card

    Sweden down to 10
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Aslan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sweden v Ukraine has been pretty good so far. I'm thinking that Sweden would be the tougher opponent, but I'm not sure there's much in it.

    I want Ukraine to win. They owe us a couple of own goals for sending our gunboat to emphasise their sovereignty over Crimea.....
    “us”

    I thought it was a Yookay (and a Dutch) gunboat.
    England is part of the UK. Thus "us" is perfectly reasonable for any of the home nations to use it.
    In that case, feel free to relocate “your” nuclear warheads from the Clyde to the Thames.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    If that is a red card for the Sweden player, then Phillips should have gone too. VAR =/= consistency.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    A bit unlucky for Sweden.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited June 2021
    moonshine said:

    Suffering your first trauma with the England football team as a child is a bit like breaking up with your first love. You never fully get over it, though time’s a healer. In this case, a very long time but we got there in the end!

    That sobbing German girl in the pictures at the end is every one of us, be it 1970, 90, 96 or whenever else. You’ll be ok lass. Just not tonight.

    My first trauma was Argentina 1986, as a seven year old I didn't mind England losing, I was gutted Maradona cheated. Absolute wanker Maradona.

    I was so gutted I wanted my father to call the authorities to get the match replayed.

    The funny thing is, I have an Irish friend that loved to wind me up over that, oddly he stopped in 2009.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Dirty Sweden.

    Hopefully a few more get sent off and Sweden qualify.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    I've seen pornos that are less x-rated than that Swedish red card.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    moonshine said:

    Suffering your first trauma with the England football team as a child is a bit like breaking up with your first love. You never fully get over it, though time’s a healer. In this case, a very long time but we got there in the end!

    That sobbing German girl in the pictures at the end is every one of us, be it 1970, 90, 96 or whenever else. You’ll be ok lass. Just not tonight.

    For me it was the injustice of the maradona handball. First realised that life could be unfair, and uefa wasn’t going to order the game replayed.
    That, and the disallowed Lampard goal in 2010 is why we need VAR and GLT.

    Mind you, just as well they didn't exist in 1966!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    TimT said:

    Why does SeanT keep changing monicker?

    Two possible explanations. To evade the ban. Or to deny to himself quite how many posts he has on this board.
    As I said earlier, I can’t understand how any PBers manage to keep down a job. All the regulars are totally unemployable. So, whether Sean has made 10,000 posts or 500,000 posts is irrelevant, he’s still a waster.
    Who is this "Sean" of which you speak in your garbled, inferior, sub-regional north British dialect of English?

    I do not see her or him
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    tlg86 said:

    If that is a red card for the Sweden player, then Phillips should have gone too. VAR =/= consistency.

    It was a very high kick that could have broken his leg.

    Definitely a red.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Leon said:

    This is the worst game yet. Fuck

    Really good for 70 minutes.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,804

    TimS said:

    The hoodoo will only finally be laid to rest after we go to extra time and beat Germany on penalties. Otherwise every time we play them in a knock out there will be that lingering fear of going the whole distance and drawing.

    1998 was the height of England’s ridiculous penchant for revelling in heroic defeat. I mean honestly, we went out in the second round and you’d have thought we’d nearly made the final. Still, that last half and then extra time was one of the most stressful and nail biting football experiences I can remember.

    I think because we were denied a legal goal (sol Campbell?) made it worse.
    Yeah, Judas.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    For all those ufo hunters out there...

    Captured over my house just now...
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    tlg86 said:

    Everyone talking about the German hoodoo, but have we forgotten 5-1 in 2001? I know that was a qualifier, not a tournament match, but it shattered the German mystique for me.

    I watched that from Tampa Bay, Florida. Fantastic day.

    I think that's why I found 2002 so frustrating. We won 5-1 in Germany, beat Argentina in the group stage but then came up against Brazil in the quarters.

    In hindsight, the mistake was not winning the group. We should have beaten Nigeria. Perhaps Senegal in the Last 16 would have been tougher than Denmark, but we'd have probably had more of a chance had we played Brazil at night in the semi final.
    That Brazil match was the first time England had meaningfully played Brazil since the World Cup in 1970 - both memorable for an action by the England goalkeeper. One good; the other less so.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    For all those ufo hunters out there...

    Captured over my house just now...

    Dirt on your lens?
  • argyllrsargyllrs Posts: 155
    Is England a good lay to win overall? Price won't move too much even if we make the final and can be cashed out for a small loss. If we're knocked out it is an easy profit.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Dreadful team selection by Southgate. Dull and dour fare after last night's matches. It will be great shame if England progress to the final and win.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    TimS said:

    The hoodoo will only finally be laid to rest after we go to extra time and beat Germany on penalties. Otherwise every time we play them in a knock out there will be that lingering fear of going the whole distance and drawing.

    1998 was the height of England’s ridiculous penchant for revelling in heroic defeat. I mean honestly, we went out in the second round and you’d have thought we’d nearly made the final. Still, that last half and then extra time was one of the most stressful and nail biting football experiences I can remember.

    I still can't work out how David Batty was one of our 5 penalty takers.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    The hoodoo will only finally be laid to rest after we go to extra time and beat Germany on penalties. Otherwise every time we play them in a knock out there will be that lingering fear of going the whole distance and drawing.

    1998 was the height of England’s ridiculous penchant for revelling in heroic defeat. I mean honestly, we went out in the second round and you’d have thought we’d nearly made the final. Still, that last half and then extra time was one of the most stressful and nail biting football experiences I can remember.

    I think because we were denied a legal goal (sol Campbell?) made it worse.
    Yeah, Judas.
    Unlike Judas the betrayal worked out quite well for Sol, won the double in his first season at Arsenal and became part of the invincibles.

    I have an Arsenal supporting friend who is an Arteta/Kroenke Out guy, he points out Arteta is really shit and in 18 months he's won as many trophies as Arsenal manager as Spurs have this millenium.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Andy_JS said:

    A bit unlucky for Sweden.

    The straight legged follow through was higher than Gove.
    tlg86 said:

    If that is a red card for the Sweden player, then Phillips should have gone too. VAR =/= consistency.

    Phillips was a solid yellow, just like Wilson's red should have been for Wales.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    dr_spyn said:

    Dreadful team selection by Southgate. Dull and dour fare after last night's matches. It will be great shame if England progress to the final and win.

    Rejoice! Rejoice!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    For all those ufo hunters out there...

    Captured over my house just now...

    Look like some trainers I own.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,804
    Game of injuries right now.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    TimT said:

    For all those ufo hunters out there...

    Captured over my house just now...

    Dirt on your lens?
    Two display planes out practicing. Posted for lols...
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Aslan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sweden v Ukraine has been pretty good so far. I'm thinking that Sweden would be the tougher opponent, but I'm not sure there's much in it.

    I want Ukraine to win. They owe us a couple of own goals for sending our gunboat to emphasise their sovereignty over Crimea.....
    “us”

    I thought it was a Yookay (and a Dutch) gunboat.
    England is part of the UK. Thus "us" is perfectly reasonable for any of the home nations to use it.
    In that case, feel free to relocate “your” nuclear warheads from the Clyde to the Thames.
    Would much prefer it moved to some other English city, given London has plenty of jobs already.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,150
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Talking of Ukraine, we just signed a £1bn+ business deal with them.

    Various Naval ships and bases.

    But there may be a degree of re-announcement happening, methinks.

    Yes, I think Ukraine wants to be in NATO, as well as the EU. Best do it in baby steps I think.
    They might get the support of the French, as 8 of the boats are missile jobbies with Exocets.

    They also seem to be going for Turkish drones (see Azerbaijan).

    Much focus on making it difficult to swallow for the Russians. Works for the Swiss...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    TimS said:

    The hoodoo will only finally be laid to rest after we go to extra time and beat Germany on penalties. Otherwise every time we play them in a knock out there will be that lingering fear of going the whole distance and drawing.

    1998 was the height of England’s ridiculous penchant for revelling in heroic defeat. I mean honestly, we went out in the second round and you’d have thought we’d nearly made the final. Still, that last half and then extra time was one of the most stressful and nail biting football experiences I can remember.

    I still can't work out how David Batty was one of our 5 penalty takers.
    They were mentioning on the commentary how Batty played right back in England's defeat to Sweden in '92.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    Lots of injuries

    Dare I say, good for England….!
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Aslan said:

    Aslan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sweden v Ukraine has been pretty good so far. I'm thinking that Sweden would be the tougher opponent, but I'm not sure there's much in it.

    I want Ukraine to win. They owe us a couple of own goals for sending our gunboat to emphasise their sovereignty over Crimea.....
    “us”

    I thought it was a Yookay (and a Dutch) gunboat.
    England is part of the UK. Thus "us" is perfectly reasonable for any of the home nations to use it.
    In that case, feel free to relocate “your” nuclear warheads from the Clyde to the Thames.
    Would much prefer it moved to some other English city, given London has plenty of jobs already.
    We could also recalculate the Barnett formula on rational grounds while we're at it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    “For the English”??

    Surely the rest of the Celtic British nations - Ireland, Wales, that one with midges - are joining in the jubilation of the dominant nation, England? In a festival of British pride?


    Anyway. Beating Germany. In a knockout. What a pleasant feeling

    One can’t help noticing that this has not happened since we joined the European Union. As soon as we Brexit - bingo

    The nation advances

    We only beat Germany in the Euros when we take the knee...

    Weren't you one of the folk supporting Anyone But England just two weeks ago?
    Talking of fishy calls, how is your dismissal of this tournament as “bloated” before a ball was kicked going?
    I think it is. Too many going through from the group stages.
    LOL.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    TimT said:

    For all those ufo hunters out there...

    Captured over my house just now...

    Dirt on your lens?
    2 codeine tablets or the ship from R-Type?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,665
    edited June 2021
    TimT said:

    For all those ufo hunters out there...

    Captured over my house just now...

    Dirt on your lens?
    Red and green lights = planes. Double exposure = HDR setting?

    Edit: Sorry, too late as usual
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    TimT said:

    Why does SeanT keep changing monicker?

    Two possible explanations. To evade the ban. Or to deny to himself quite how many posts he has on this board.
    As I said earlier, I can’t understand how any PBers manage to keep down a job. All the regulars are totally unemployable. So, whether Sean has made 10,000 posts or 500,000 posts is irrelevant, he’s still a waster.
    Ruthless delegation, that's how.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,150
    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Why does SeanT keep changing monicker?

    Two possible explanations. To evade the ban. Or to deny to himself quite how many posts he has on this board.
    As I said earlier, I can’t understand how any PBers manage to keep down a job. All the regulars are totally unemployable. So, whether Sean has made 10,000 posts or 500,000 posts is irrelevant, he’s still a waster.
    Who is this "Sean" of which you speak in your garbled, inferior, sub-regional north British dialect of English?

    I do not see her or him
    Don't worry about him; he's an arse.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Why do footballers get so many cramps ?
    Tennis players can play 4 hour matches at Wimbledon
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    It seems to me that players are now being held accountable for what happens after they win the ball. Andy Robertson would probably get a red if he did this today:

    https://site-cdn.givemesport.com/images/20/01/12/6ee68c97947da8b63275091c719f063d/960.jpg
This discussion has been closed.