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Thirteen months ago the CON poll lead dropped upto 17 points after the Cummings Barnard Castle revel

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021

    OT things you learn... Until reading that Gina of Matt&Gina fame is married to Oliver Tress who founded the Oliver Bonas shops, I'd always believed there was a posh bloke called Oliver Bonas running them.

    Bonas was the surname of his then girlfriend Anna (cousin of Prince Harry's ex-girlfriend Cressida Bonas.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,692
    Could be bad news for the Tories in Batley & Spen. Even if it only shifts 500 votes it could be crucial in a close result.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363
    Cookie said:

    I don't recall a time this board was held a view so unanimously as we appear to on this issue.
    The only dissent seems to be exactly what about Matt Hancoxk and his behaviour we find so reprehensible.

    Yep. And it reemphasizes yet again the amazing slack that somehow is cut for Boris Johnson. People really should have a good hard think about this aspect. And no, just to save time, the answer that it's all about Hancock's "hypocrisy" doesn't scan. Don't trouble me with that.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,267
    Omnium said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    I'd have had you as more of a rugby man rather than worrying about lesser sports.
    I have never had an interest in rugby

    My football journey was

    1952 - 1959 - attended most Berwick Ranges home games, while following Man Utd

    1960 - 1965 - season ticket holder with Hibernian FC

    1966 - to recently - season ticket holder with Man Utd

    And some years ago, actually slept overnight on the Stretford End, with my daughter, to claim our cup final tickets

  • ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 502
    edited June 2021
    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    But a majority? No idea but would it be Islamophobic to say so. Have there been polls? I would be amazed if it was a majority

    The link was posted in the last thread by isam; detailed tables are here (table 45, p.119).

    Results are based on interviews with 1,081 Muslims aged 18+. Interviews were carried out face-to-face, and fieldwork took place between 25 April and 31 May 2015. The data has been weighted by age, gender, region and work status.

    For each of the following statements, please tell me to what extent you agree or disagree with each one: Homosexuality should be legal in Britain

    Strongly agree: 8%
    Tend to agree: 10%
    Neither agree nor disagree: 22%
    Don't know: 8%
    Tend to disagree: 14%
    Strongly disagree: 38%
    Total agree: 18%
    Total disagree: 52%
    Worth pointing out that it's not all that many generations that you'd have got similar views if you asked this question in England as a whole. These views are old fashioned by a few decades, not a few centuries.
    A National Opinion Poll extracted from the Daily Mail in October 1965 stated that 63% of people polled disagreed that homosexual acts in private should be criminal. That's, what, 8.2 Scottish generations worth? Of course, that's not the point of posting the statistics: I do wonder if those being so circuitous about criticising Muslims for homophobia have been equally reticent when it comes to criticising Conservatives or Leavers for opinions not held by almost 100% of the bloc.
    Your quote continues. "93% believed homosexuals to need psychiatric or medical treatment."
    Was removed as a "disease" by the WHO in 1990.
    With a name like that, should you really spend this much time moving goalposts? Personally I'd rather live in a society which thought I needed medical treatment to one which thought I should be imprisoned (though the prescribed punishment in Islam is, of course, death by stoning). But the most important fact - in fact, the only important fact in the discussion we're actually having and not the one people seem to wish we were having - is that a majority of UK Muslims in 2015 believed homosexuality should be illegal, and a majority of Britain in 1965 didn't.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,819

    OT things you learn... Until reading that Gina of Matt&Gina fame is married to Oliver Tress who founded the Oliver Bonas shops, I'd always believed there was a posh bloke called Oliver Bonas running them.

    Bonas was the surname of his then girlfriend Anna (cousin of Prince Harry's ex-girlfriend Cressida Bonas.
    Bloody hell these posh people really do all know each other.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,821
    Sean_F said:

    Floater said:

    Coronavirus latest news: Scotland’s Covid rate is more than double England’s, new figures reveal


    Shut the border !!!

    I don't see the pointing of hanging on to a liability.
    It's a bit like going to a nightclub with an ugly mate, it makes you look relatively good...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058

    Oh...


    Adam Brooks
    @EssexPR
    ·
    39m
    Hancock’s mistresses brother got Government contracts…
    My god it gets worse.

    #SackHancock

    Hancock's own sister's company got a contract. A company in which Matt Hancock himself is a shareholder. But don't worry. The government has already investigated and cleared Hancock.

    The potential for corruption in awarding no-bid contracts, as well as employing mates as non-executive directors to get round the SpAd rules (themselves not very arduous) might one day bring the government down, though it's more likely to be a 4-page centrefold special in Private Eye before everyone moves on.
    Wasn't his sister's company in Wales where the NHS is run by that living God Mark Drakeford, as PBers know everything he does is brilliant.
    The contract was awarded by NHS SBS. As Lord Geidt noted sardonically: It is reasonable to assume that Mr Hancock’s sister and brother-in-law, the owners of Topwood Ltd., would have been well aware of his appointment as Secretary of State at the time of their company securing this contract with NHS SBS.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,444

    Oh...


    Adam Brooks
    @EssexPR
    ·
    39m
    Hancock’s mistresses brother got Government contracts…
    My god it gets worse.

    #SackHancock

    Hancock's own sister's company got a contract. A company in which Matt Hancock himself is a shareholder. But don't worry. The government has already investigated and cleared Hancock.

    The potential for corruption in awarding no-bid contracts, as well as employing mates as non-executive directors to get round the SpAd rules (themselves not very arduous) might one day bring the government down, though it's more likely to be a 4-page centrefold special in Private Eye before everyone moves on.
    Wasn't his sister's company in Wales where the NHS is run by that living God Mark Drakeford, as PBers know everything he does is brilliant.
    And they do document shredding - hardly under the influence of a health secretary. That was nonsense - today he should resign. Firstly he is having an affair with his aide - completely inappropriate and unacceptable. Against the ministerial code. And he has not followed the guidance where we rely on each other for it to succeed. I don't think he is as useless as some on here but he is hardly worth keeping. He should have been called forth and despatched first thing this morning before anyone else had the chance to call for his resignation.
    Document shredding is, however, very important if say, you have things that you need to rapidly remove all evidence of.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    I've spent far too much time and money in the Oliver Bonas in Manchester Piccadilly railway station.
  • Pattern of hospitalisations against cases in England continuing.

    Cases by specimen date translucent; hospitalisations seven days lagged in full colour. Dashed lines represent 7-day averages for each.

    Is it better to scale the vertical axis on a log scale?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    NEW: Number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in Moscow reaches record-high, deputy mayor says. Exact figure not disclosed - TASS
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478
    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    He didn’t fire Cummings for what, bluntly, was a far more serious matter.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,927
    Late afternoon all :)

    Enjoyed lunch with Brother Stodge this afternoon - first time we've met face-to-face since last October.

    I must confess I wore my mask a lot today - as one of the 11 million hayfever sufferers, I find the mask does alleviate the symptoms a little by reducing the amount of pollen one breaths in or ingests. For the same reason, we eschewed the dubious virtues of al fresco dining.

    I'll be honest - I despise this time of the year. The rain and gloom last weekend was like manna from heaven - the heat and sunshine can stay away until mid July as far as I'm concerned - I accept that's a rather selfish and minority view (normally I avoid the former but seem to find it hard to avoid the latter).

    I avoid talking politics with Brother Stodge because he's firmly in the Conservative camp but unprompted he had a good rant about Hancock. It's not the sin that kills you, as Nick Clegg and John Major found out, but the hypocrisy. Saying one thing and urging the public to do one thing while you or those around you in positions of responsibility are doing the opposite is what sticks in the national craw.

    Brother Stodge's "how the **** did he think he would get away with it?" perhaps sums it up well. Of course, one feels for Hancock's family but it now seems de rigueur to be able to compartmentalise one's working life from one's non-working life. I have to confess, were I to be discovered to be "playing away", I'd be much more worried about Mrs Stodge's reaction than my employer's but I'm not a Cabinet Minister (or I wasn't last time I looked).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,821

    The government will ask the Parole Board to look again at its decision to release a double child killer who was the first murderer to be convicted using DNA evidence.

    Who has been in an open prison for some years.

    A well known case here.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478

    NEW: Number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in Moscow reaches record-high, deputy mayor says. Exact figure not disclosed - TASS

    Is that a reflection on their vaccine programme or their vaccine?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    But a majority? No idea but would it be Islamophobic to say so. Have there been polls? I would be amazed if it was a majority

    The link was posted in the last thread by isam; detailed tables are here (table 45, p.119).

    Results are based on interviews with 1,081 Muslims aged 18+. Interviews were carried out face-to-face, and fieldwork took place between 25 April and 31 May 2015. The data has been weighted by age, gender, region and work status.

    For each of the following statements, please tell me to what extent you agree or disagree with each one: Homosexuality should be legal in Britain

    Strongly agree: 8%
    Tend to agree: 10%
    Neither agree nor disagree: 22%
    Don't know: 8%
    Tend to disagree: 14%
    Strongly disagree: 38%
    Total agree: 18%
    Total disagree: 52%
    Worth pointing out that it's not all that many generations that you'd have got similar views if you asked this question in England as a whole. These views are old fashioned by a few decades, not a few centuries.
    A National Opinion Poll extracted from the Daily Mail in October 1965 stated that 63% of people polled disagreed that homosexual acts in private should be criminal. That's, what, 8.2 Scottish generations worth? Of course, that's not the point of posting the statistics: I do wonder if those being so circuitous about criticising Muslims for homophobia have been equally reticent when it comes to criticising Conservatives or Leavers for opinions not held by almost 100% of the bloc.
    Your quote continues. "93% believed homosexuals to need psychiatric or medical treatment."
    Was removed as a "disease" by the WHO in 1990.
    With a name like that, should you really spend this much time moving goalposts? Personally I'd rather live in a society which thought I needed medical treatment to one which thought I should be imprisoned (though the prescribed punishment in Islam is, of course, death by stoning). But the most important fact - in fact, the only important fact in the discussion we're actually having and not the one people seem to wish we were having - is that a majority of UK Muslims in 2015 believed homosexuality should be illegal, and a majority of Britain in 1965 didn't.
    You seem spectacularly aerated by this.
    Views are changing. That was my only point.
    Moslems in the UK are behind the times on this, yes. But they are not alone in the world in their views. Not by a long way.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    But a majority? No idea but would it be Islamophobic to say so. Have there been polls? I would be amazed if it was a majority

    The link was posted in the last thread by isam; detailed tables are here (table 45, p.119).

    Results are based on interviews with 1,081 Muslims aged 18+. Interviews were carried out face-to-face, and fieldwork took place between 25 April and 31 May 2015. The data has been weighted by age, gender, region and work status.

    For each of the following statements, please tell me to what extent you agree or disagree with each one: Homosexuality should be legal in Britain

    Strongly agree: 8%
    Tend to agree: 10%
    Neither agree nor disagree: 22%
    Don't know: 8%
    Tend to disagree: 14%
    Strongly disagree: 38%
    Total agree: 18%
    Total disagree: 52%
    Worth pointing out that it's not all that many generations that you'd have got similar views if you asked this question in England as a whole. These views are old fashioned by a few decades, not a few centuries.
    A National Opinion Poll extracted from the Daily Mail in October 1965 stated that 63% of people polled disagreed that homosexual acts in private should be criminal. That's, what, 8.2 Scottish generations worth? Of course, that's not the point of posting the statistics: I do wonder if those being so circuitous about criticising Muslims for homophobia have been equally reticent when it comes to criticising Conservatives or Leavers for opinions not held by almost 100% of the bloc.
    Your quote continues. "93% believed homosexuals to need psychiatric or medical treatment."
    Was removed as a "disease" by the WHO in 1990.
    With a name like that, should you really spend this much time moving goalposts? Personally I'd rather live in a society which thought I needed medical treatment to one which thought I should be imprisoned (though the prescribed punishment in Islam is, of course, death by stoning). But the most important fact - in fact, the only important fact in the discussion we're actually having and not the one people seem to wish we were having - is that a majority of UK Muslims in 2015 believed homosexuality should be illegal, and a majority of Britain in 1965 didn't.
    It is worth remembering, of course, that the numbers for Evangelical Christians in the US aren't that different from Muslims in the UK: https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/evangelical-protestant/views-about-homosexuality/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021
    ydoethur said:

    NEW: Number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in Moscow reaches record-high, deputy mayor says. Exact figure not disclosed - TASS

    Is that a reflection on their vaccine programme or their vaccine?
    Very few are vaccinated in Russia. Technically their vaccine is fine, but there have been reports that the QA has been poor from some Eastern European countries who bought it.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755
    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    He didn’t fire Cummings for what, bluntly, was a far more serious matter.
    Firstly, by a mile what Cummings did was less serious than this.

    Secondly, Cummings was at the time the brains behind the Boris government and it was still panic stations.

    Hancock has shown himself to be worse than inept throughout the crisis, as well as being dishonest. Which the PM admits. Secondly we are now out the woods. Sack him now or this will cast a cloud over firstly, the unlockdown, but actually the rest of his term.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,932

    PBers may be amused to learn that the three letter station code for the new Woolwich Crossrail station is WWC.

    Middle class and/or BAME passengers should not alight here!

    Crossrail has totally disappeared off my radar in the last fifteen months. It feels like a mythical beast, the denouement of a long-sought quest, never to be completed. Like Berlin Airport, the Ryugyong Hotel or the Scottish National Monument.

    At least it looks as though one of those will be fully finished. ;)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478
    moonshine said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    He didn’t fire Cummings for what, bluntly, was a far more serious matter.
    Firstly, by a mile what Cummings did was less serious than this.

    Secondly, Cummings was at the time the brains behind the Boris government and it was still panic stations.

    Hancock has shown himself to be worse than inept throughout the crisis, as well as being dishonest. Which the PM admits. Secondly we are now out the woods. Sack him now or this will cast a cloud over firstly, the unlockdown, but actually the rest of his term.
    Cummings coming into work while his wife was showing symptoms of Covid was ‘by a mile less serious than this?’

    Or driving 300 miles and then repeatedly breaking quarantine while there?

    And repeatedly lying about all this?

    I have to disagree.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,444

    I've spent far too much time and money in the Oliver Bonas in Manchester Piccadilly railway station.

    Killing time while waiting for a train I can understand but buying what exactly?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478

    PBers may be amused to learn that the three letter station code for the new Woolwich Crossrail station is WWC.

    Middle class and/or BAME passengers should not alight here!

    Crossrail has totally disappeared off my radar in the last fifteen months. It feels like a mythical beast, the denouement of a long-sought quest, never to be completed. Like Berlin Airport, the Ryugyong Hotel or the Scottish National Monument.

    At least it looks as though one of those will be fully finished. ;)
    I thought Berlin Airport had opened now?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,694
    edited June 2021

    Surely a more appropriate punishment is that Hancock has to kiss everyone who has tested positive for covid today.

    He's already had Covid, so that's just punishment for the already unfortunate.

    He should definitely go, but perhaps he just wants to announce the Great Unlocking? The data on it saving the government's face is looking very good, so there's no way they can delay again, surely.
    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    How many others have been doing the same and are currently wondering how much CCTV footage has leaked?

    Who monitors the security of ministerial offices? Given the sensitivity you'd think it would be locked down to the nth degree - airgapped, no phones permitted, no external devices etc etc etc - and definitely not outsourced to Group 4.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,821
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    But a majority? No idea but would it be Islamophobic to say so. Have there been polls? I would be amazed if it was a majority

    The link was posted in the last thread by isam; detailed tables are here (table 45, p.119).

    Results are based on interviews with 1,081 Muslims aged 18+. Interviews were carried out face-to-face, and fieldwork took place between 25 April and 31 May 2015. The data has been weighted by age, gender, region and work status.

    For each of the following statements, please tell me to what extent you agree or disagree with each one: Homosexuality should be legal in Britain

    Strongly agree: 8%
    Tend to agree: 10%
    Neither agree nor disagree: 22%
    Don't know: 8%
    Tend to disagree: 14%
    Strongly disagree: 38%
    Total agree: 18%
    Total disagree: 52%
    Worth pointing out that it's not all that many generations that you'd have got similar views if you asked this question in England as a whole. These views are old fashioned by a few decades, not a few centuries.
    A National Opinion Poll extracted from the Daily Mail in October 1965 stated that 63% of people polled disagreed that homosexual acts in private should be criminal. That's, what, 8.2 Scottish generations worth? Of course, that's not the point of posting the statistics: I do wonder if those being so circuitous about criticising Muslims for homophobia have been equally reticent when it comes to criticising Conservatives or Leavers for opinions not held by almost 100% of the bloc.
    Your quote continues. "93% believed homosexuals to need psychiatric or medical treatment."
    Was removed as a "disease" by the WHO in 1990.
    With a name like that, should you really spend this much time moving goalposts? Personally I'd rather live in a society which thought I needed medical treatment to one which thought I should be imprisoned (though the prescribed punishment in Islam is, of course, death by stoning). But the most important fact - in fact, the only important fact in the discussion we're actually having and not the one people seem to wish we were having - is that a majority of UK Muslims in 2015 believed homosexuality should be illegal, and a majority of Britain in 1965 didn't.
    You seem spectacularly aerated by this.
    Views are changing. That was my only point.
    Moslems in the UK are behind the times on this, yes. But they are not alone in the world in their views. Not by a long way.
    Indeed. I expect other immigrant populations such as Christian Africans, Hungarians and possibly Latvians are not too dissimilar. Let alone in other countries.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,821

    PBers may be amused to learn that the three letter station code for the new Woolwich Crossrail station is WWC.

    Middle class and/or BAME passengers should not alight here!

    Crossrail has totally disappeared off my radar in the last fifteen months. It feels like a mythical beast, the denouement of a long-sought quest, never to be completed. Like Berlin Airport, the Ryugyong Hotel or the Scottish National Monument.

    At least it looks as though one of those will be fully finished. ;)
    Long time no hear! Have you been keeping well?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    eek said:

    I've spent far too much time and money in the Oliver Bonas in Manchester Piccadilly railway station.

    Killing time while waiting for a train I can understand but buying what exactly?
    Dresses and body glitter mostly.

    I had a wife and girlfriend (not concurrently) who love shopping in there, and it was a case 'If you're there get me X and anything you think looks good on me.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,819
    eek said:

    I've spent far too much time and money in the Oliver Bonas in Manchester Piccadilly railway station.

    Killing time while waiting for a train I can understand but buying what exactly?
    It's one of those shops that screams "they saw you coming" isn't it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768

    PBers may be amused to learn that the three letter station code for the new Woolwich Crossrail station is WWC.

    Middle class and/or BAME passengers should not alight here!

    Crossrail has totally disappeared off my radar in the last fifteen months. It feels like a mythical beast, the denouement of a long-sought quest, never to be completed. Like Berlin Airport, the Ryugyong Hotel or the Scottish National Monument.

    At least it looks as though one of those will be fully finished. ;)
    Hello you!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058

    OT "our" NHS has just texted me details of two pop-up vaccination centres tomorrow. I do not think everyone appreciates how little notice these things get. As it happens, I've already had both jabs, one of which was on a same-day basis.

    Oh dear. The NHS just texted again to say that one of the two pop-ups needs an appointment so call this number...
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,927
    In London, another big push on vaccinations this weekend:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/where-can-get-walk-in-vaccine-london-booking-this-month-b942374.html

    Unfortunately, nothing in East London. This is outrageous - the queues last weekend at Stratford suggested there was plenty of demand yet this weekend there's nothing over my side of town.

    100,000 adults over 30 in Newham have yet to be vaccinated - irrespective of whether they have been "invited" or not, it seems the NHS, Government and the Councils are just giving up on them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478

    eek said:

    I've spent far too much time and money in the Oliver Bonas in Manchester Piccadilly railway station.

    Killing time while waiting for a train I can understand but buying what exactly?
    Dresses and body glitter mostly.

    I had a wife and girlfriend (not concurrently) who love shopping in there, and it was a case 'If you're there get me X and anything you think looks good on me.
    What would have happened if you came back with nothing, and simply ‘that’s what you look best in?’
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,017

    Surely a more appropriate punishment is that Hancock has to kiss everyone who has tested positive for covid today.

    He's already had Covid, so that's just punishment for the already unfortunate.

    He should definitely go, but perhaps he just wants to announce the Great Unlocking? The data on it saving the government's face is looking very good, so there's no way they can delay again, surely.
    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    How many others have been doing the same and are currently wondering how much CCTV footage has leaked?

    Who monitors the security of ministerial offices? Given the sensitivity you'd think it would be locked down to the nth degree - airgapped, no phones permitted, no external devices etc etc etc - and definitely not outsourced to Group 4.
    But he had the pox long enough ago to catch it again. Not as if he has been being careful, is it?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,049

    ydoethur said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    Blimey. There’s optimism for you.

    The is issue is, if you fired every dodgy minister in Johnson’s government, there would hardly be anyone left. Possibly Sunak, Wallace, Hart, and perhaps Buckland and Truss on a good day. Even among the junior ministers there would be carnage.
    Typical arrogance of the Welsh.

    It is why Welsh rugby fans are hated across the world.
    Is there another example of arrogant sports fans being hated across the world?

    *entirely un-innocent face*
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,017
    Foxy said:

    PBers may be amused to learn that the three letter station code for the new Woolwich Crossrail station is WWC.

    Middle class and/or BAME passengers should not alight here!

    Crossrail has totally disappeared off my radar in the last fifteen months. It feels like a mythical beast, the denouement of a long-sought quest, never to be completed. Like Berlin Airport, the Ryugyong Hotel or the Scottish National Monument.

    At least it looks as though one of those will be fully finished. ;)
    Long time no hear! Have you been keeping well?
    Ditto.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    I've spent far too much time and money in the Oliver Bonas in Manchester Piccadilly railway station.

    Killing time while waiting for a train I can understand but buying what exactly?
    Dresses and body glitter mostly.

    I had a wife and girlfriend (not concurrently) who love shopping in there, and it was a case 'If you're there get me X and anything you think looks good on me.
    What would have happened if you came back with nothing, and simply ‘that’s what you look best in?’
    I always came back with something.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    moonshine said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    He didn’t fire Cummings for what, bluntly, was a far more serious matter.
    Firstly, by a mile what Cummings did was less serious than this.

    Secondly, Cummings was at the time the brains behind the Boris government and it was still panic stations.

    Hancock has shown himself to be worse than inept throughout the crisis, as well as being dishonest. Which the PM admits. Secondly we are now out the woods. Sack him now or this will cast a cloud over firstly, the unlockdown, but actually the rest of his term.
    The big, unanswered, and it would appear, unasked, question is, of course, how long has this been going on?
    You don't just appoint someone you have known for 25 years as your advisor, and then suddenly discover you are magically attracted to each other, quite out of the blue.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478

    ydoethur said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    Blimey. There’s optimism for you.

    The is issue is, if you fired every dodgy minister in Johnson’s government, there would hardly be anyone left. Possibly Sunak, Wallace, Hart, and perhaps Buckland and Truss on a good day. Even among the junior ministers there would be carnage.
    Typical arrogance of the Welsh.

    It is why Welsh rugby fans are hated across the world.
    Is there another example of arrogant sports fans being hated across the world?

    *entirely un-innocent face*
    Aussie cricket fans.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058
    edited June 2021
    stodge said:

    In London, another big push on vaccinations this weekend:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/where-can-get-walk-in-vaccine-london-booking-this-month-b942374.html

    Unfortunately, nothing in East London. This is outrageous - the queues last weekend at Stratford suggested there was plenty of demand yet this weekend there's nothing over my side of town.

    100,000 adults over 30 in Newham have yet to be vaccinated - irrespective of whether they have been "invited" or not, it seems the NHS, Government and the Councils are just giving up on them.

    My two pop-ups are in the London Borough of Redbridge which is Newham-adjacent. They are not on the Standard's list (unless they were behind a pop-up advert).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768

    ydoethur said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    Blimey. There’s optimism for you.

    The is issue is, if you fired every dodgy minister in Johnson’s government, there would hardly be anyone left. Possibly Sunak, Wallace, Hart, and perhaps Buckland and Truss on a good day. Even among the junior ministers there would be carnage.
    Typical arrogance of the Welsh.

    It is why Welsh rugby fans are hated across the world.
    Is there another example of arrogant sports fans being hated across the world?

    *entirely un-innocent face*
    Scottish fans.

    Before my time but I believe at the 1978 World Cup Scotland's manager said they'd be coming home with a medal.

    Sevco fans are known for their arrogance I believe.

    As a fan of the English association football & rugby football union teams and Liverpool FC, we are synonymous with legendary humility.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,514

    Oh...


    Adam Brooks
    @EssexPR
    ·
    39m
    Hancock’s mistresses brother got Government contracts…
    My god it gets worse.

    #SackHancock

    11 years ago, after time travelling with @Leon's aliens...
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    edited June 2021

    Oh...


    Adam Brooks
    @EssexPR
    ·
    39m
    Hancock’s mistresses brother got Government contracts…
    My god it gets worse.

    #SackHancock

    11 years ago, after time travelling with @Leon's aliens...
    Still a breach of the ministerial code not to have registered the potential conflict for an ongoing contract, and I think we can safely say he did not register it.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,694
    edited June 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Surely a more appropriate punishment is that Hancock has to kiss everyone who has tested positive for covid today.

    He's already had Covid, so that's just punishment for the already unfortunate.

    He should definitely go, but perhaps he just wants to announce the Great Unlocking? The data on it saving the government's face is looking very good, so there's no way they can delay again, surely.
    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    How many others have been doing the same and are currently wondering how much CCTV footage has leaked?

    Who monitors the security of ministerial offices? Given the sensitivity you'd think it would be locked down to the nth degree - airgapped, no phones permitted, no external devices etc etc etc - and definitely not outsourced to Group 4.
    But he had the pox long enough ago to catch it again. Not as if he has been being careful, is it?
    I'm not excusing the behaviour, BTW, just saying it isn't likely that he'd catch it even if tasked with the punishment suggested. He has been vaxxed as well (on camera, if I recall).

    If the 'Great Unlock' is in a couple of weeks you can see why he might be desperate to get to the end before being forced to resign.


    Be interesting to know whether this was going on when he caught Covid, mind...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,821
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    I've spent far too much time and money in the Oliver Bonas in Manchester Piccadilly railway station.

    Killing time while waiting for a train I can understand but buying what exactly?
    Dresses and body glitter mostly.

    I had a wife and girlfriend (not concurrently) who love shopping in there, and it was a case 'If you're there get me X and anything you think looks good on me.
    What would have happened if you came back with nothing, and simply ‘that’s what you look best in?’
    Unwise...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058
    moonshine said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    He didn’t fire Cummings for what, bluntly, was a far more serious matter.
    Firstly, by a mile what Cummings did was less serious than this.

    Secondly, Cummings was at the time the brains behind the Boris government and it was still panic stations.

    Hancock has shown himself to be worse than inept throughout the crisis, as well as being dishonest. Which the PM admits. Secondly we are now out the woods. Sack him now or this will cast a cloud over firstly, the unlockdown, but actually the rest of his term.
    Hancock's has brownie points from insisting on spreading orders between different suppliers (apparently because he'd seen a scary film on the subject).
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755
    dixiedean said:

    moonshine said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    He didn’t fire Cummings for what, bluntly, was a far more serious matter.
    Firstly, by a mile what Cummings did was less serious than this.

    Secondly, Cummings was at the time the brains behind the Boris government and it was still panic stations.

    Hancock has shown himself to be worse than inept throughout the crisis, as well as being dishonest. Which the PM admits. Secondly we are now out the woods. Sack him now or this will cast a cloud over firstly, the unlockdown, but actually the rest of his term.
    The big, unanswered, and it would appear, unasked, question is, of course, how long has this been going on?
    You don't just appoint someone you have known for 25 years as your advisor, and then suddenly discover you are magically attracted to each other, quite out of the blue.
    This is why it’s a far bigger scandal than Cummings. And as others have said, Hancock has form as a trougher.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    edited June 2021
    Shut the front door, Sick Boy is playing John Major in The Crown.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57610233

    (He's Sherlock Holmes to me these days.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,017

    ydoethur said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    Blimey. There’s optimism for you.

    The is issue is, if you fired every dodgy minister in Johnson’s government, there would hardly be anyone left. Possibly Sunak, Wallace, Hart, and perhaps Buckland and Truss on a good day. Even among the junior ministers there would be carnage.
    Typical arrogance of the Welsh.

    It is why Welsh rugby fans are hated across the world.
    Is there another example of arrogant sports fans being hated across the world?

    *entirely un-innocent face*
    Scottish fans.

    Before my time but I believe at the 1978 World Cup Scotland's manager said they'd be coming home with a medal.

    Sevco fans are known for their arrogance I believe.

    As a fan of the English association football & rugby football union teams and Liverpool FC, we are synonymous with legendary humility.
    Quite so.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,390
    dixiedean said:

    moonshine said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    He didn’t fire Cummings for what, bluntly, was a far more serious matter.
    Firstly, by a mile what Cummings did was less serious than this.

    Secondly, Cummings was at the time the brains behind the Boris government and it was still panic stations.

    Hancock has shown himself to be worse than inept throughout the crisis, as well as being dishonest. Which the PM admits. Secondly we are now out the woods. Sack him now or this will cast a cloud over firstly, the unlockdown, but actually the rest of his term.
    The big, unanswered, and it would appear, unasked, question is, of course, how long has this been going on?
    You don't just appoint someone you have known for 25 years as your advisor, and then suddenly discover you are magically attracted to each other, quite out of the blue.
    May be fairly recent.

    I should think it is a requirement for Cabinet Ministers in Johnson's Governement to have a mistress or equivalent.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755

    ydoethur said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    Blimey. There’s optimism for you.

    The is issue is, if you fired every dodgy minister in Johnson’s government, there would hardly be anyone left. Possibly Sunak, Wallace, Hart, and perhaps Buckland and Truss on a good day. Even among the junior ministers there would be carnage.
    Typical arrogance of the Welsh.

    It is why Welsh rugby fans are hated across the world.
    Is there another example of arrogant sports fans being hated across the world?

    *entirely un-innocent face*
    Scottish fans.

    Before my time but I believe at the 1978 World Cup Scotland's manager said they'd be coming home with a medal.
    That’s where Swinson got it from then
  • ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 502
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    But a majority? No idea but would it be Islamophobic to say so. Have there been polls? I would be amazed if it was a majority

    The link was posted in the last thread by isam; detailed tables are here (table 45, p.119).

    Results are based on interviews with 1,081 Muslims aged 18+. Interviews were carried out face-to-face, and fieldwork took place between 25 April and 31 May 2015. The data has been weighted by age, gender, region and work status.

    For each of the following statements, please tell me to what extent you agree or disagree with each one: Homosexuality should be legal in Britain

    Strongly agree: 8%
    Tend to agree: 10%
    Neither agree nor disagree: 22%
    Don't know: 8%
    Tend to disagree: 14%
    Strongly disagree: 38%
    Total agree: 18%
    Total disagree: 52%
    Worth pointing out that it's not all that many generations that you'd have got similar views if you asked this question in England as a whole. These views are old fashioned by a few decades, not a few centuries.
    A National Opinion Poll extracted from the Daily Mail in October 1965 stated that 63% of people polled disagreed that homosexual acts in private should be criminal. That's, what, 8.2 Scottish generations worth? Of course, that's not the point of posting the statistics: I do wonder if those being so circuitous about criticising Muslims for homophobia have been equally reticent when it comes to criticising Conservatives or Leavers for opinions not held by almost 100% of the bloc.
    Your quote continues. "93% believed homosexuals to need psychiatric or medical treatment."
    Was removed as a "disease" by the WHO in 1990.
    With a name like that, should you really spend this much time moving goalposts? Personally I'd rather live in a society which thought I needed medical treatment to one which thought I should be imprisoned (though the prescribed punishment in Islam is, of course, death by stoning). But the most important fact - in fact, the only important fact in the discussion we're actually having and not the one people seem to wish we were having - is that a majority of UK Muslims in 2015 believed homosexuality should be illegal, and a majority of Britain in 1965 didn't.
    You seem spectacularly aerated by this.
    Not nearly as aerated as the - what, four people now? who have jumped in to offer various whataboutery points to a fairly straightforward that a majority of UK Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal. Only a small majority, however - similar to the proportion of Leavers who support the return of capital punishment (53%) or blue passports (52%). I look forward to seeing the people who have jumped in here offering similar counterpoints when those topics are brought up in future.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646
    edited June 2021

    Oh...


    Adam Brooks
    @EssexPR
    ·
    39m
    Hancock’s mistresses brother got Government contracts…
    My god it gets worse.

    #SackHancock

    Hancock's own sister's company got a contract. A company in which Matt Hancock himself is a shareholder. But don't worry. The government has already investigated and cleared Hancock.

    The potential for corruption in awarding no-bid contracts, as well as employing mates as non-executive directors to get round the SpAd rules (themselves not very arduous) might one day bring the government down, though it's more likely to be a 4-page centrefold special in Private Eye before everyone moves on.
    Wasn't his sister's company in Wales where the NHS is run by that living God Mark Drakeford, as PBers know everything he does is brilliant.
    The NHS in Wales is ‘run’ by my old university mate Vaughan Gething.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Anyone watching Ch4 News would bet the house on Hancock going. Probably tonight. It's a firing squad
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,128
    edited June 2021
    Roger said:

    Anyone watching Ch4 News would bet the house on Hancock going. Probably tonight. It's a firing squad

    Until seeing this comment I was also convinced he was going to go....

    Edit to add: And he should, in my opinion. Guideline makers cannot be breakers
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    But a majority? No idea but would it be Islamophobic to say so. Have there been polls? I would be amazed if it was a majority

    The link was posted in the last thread by isam; detailed tables are here (table 45, p.119).

    Results are based on interviews with 1,081 Muslims aged 18+. Interviews were carried out face-to-face, and fieldwork took place between 25 April and 31 May 2015. The data has been weighted by age, gender, region and work status.

    For each of the following statements, please tell me to what extent you agree or disagree with each one: Homosexuality should be legal in Britain

    Strongly agree: 8%
    Tend to agree: 10%
    Neither agree nor disagree: 22%
    Don't know: 8%
    Tend to disagree: 14%
    Strongly disagree: 38%
    Total agree: 18%
    Total disagree: 52%
    Worth pointing out that it's not all that many generations that you'd have got similar views if you asked this question in England as a whole. These views are old fashioned by a few decades, not a few centuries.
    A National Opinion Poll extracted from the Daily Mail in October 1965 stated that 63% of people polled disagreed that homosexual acts in private should be criminal. That's, what, 8.2 Scottish generations worth? Of course, that's not the point of posting the statistics: I do wonder if those being so circuitous about criticising Muslims for homophobia have been equally reticent when it comes to criticising Conservatives or Leavers for opinions not held by almost 100% of the bloc.
    Your quote continues. "93% believed homosexuals to need psychiatric or medical treatment."
    Was removed as a "disease" by the WHO in 1990.
    With a name like that, should you really spend this much time moving goalposts? Personally I'd rather live in a society which thought I needed medical treatment to one which thought I should be imprisoned (though the prescribed punishment in Islam is, of course, death by stoning). But the most important fact - in fact, the only important fact in the discussion we're actually having and not the one people seem to wish we were having - is that a majority of UK Muslims in 2015 believed homosexuality should be illegal, and a majority of Britain in 1965 didn't.
    You seem spectacularly aerated by this.
    Not nearly as aerated as the - what, four people now? who have jumped in to offer various whataboutery points to a fairly straightforward that a majority of UK Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal. Only a small majority, however - similar to the proportion of Leavers who support the return of capital punishment (53%) or blue passports (52%). I look forward to seeing the people who have jumped in here offering similar counterpoints when those topics are brought up in future.

    Read Douglas Murray the strange death of Europe
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,128
    Hugely relieved to see @DavidL posting again today. Thanks for letting us know David, and well done for seeking medical advice!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    But a majority? No idea but would it be Islamophobic to say so. Have there been polls? I would be amazed if it was a majority

    The link was posted in the last thread by isam; detailed tables are here (table 45, p.119).

    Results are based on interviews with 1,081 Muslims aged 18+. Interviews were carried out face-to-face, and fieldwork took place between 25 April and 31 May 2015. The data has been weighted by age, gender, region and work status.

    For each of the following statements, please tell me to what extent you agree or disagree with each one: Homosexuality should be legal in Britain

    Strongly agree: 8%
    Tend to agree: 10%
    Neither agree nor disagree: 22%
    Don't know: 8%
    Tend to disagree: 14%
    Strongly disagree: 38%
    Total agree: 18%
    Total disagree: 52%
    Worth pointing out that it's not all that many generations that you'd have got similar views if you asked this question in England as a whole. These views are old fashioned by a few decades, not a few centuries.
    A National Opinion Poll extracted from the Daily Mail in October 1965 stated that 63% of people polled disagreed that homosexual acts in private should be criminal. That's, what, 8.2 Scottish generations worth? Of course, that's not the point of posting the statistics: I do wonder if those being so circuitous about criticising Muslims for homophobia have been equally reticent when it comes to criticising Conservatives or Leavers for opinions not held by almost 100% of the bloc.
    Your quote continues. "93% believed homosexuals to need psychiatric or medical treatment."
    Was removed as a "disease" by the WHO in 1990.
    With a name like that, should you really spend this much time moving goalposts? Personally I'd rather live in a society which thought I needed medical treatment to one which thought I should be imprisoned (though the prescribed punishment in Islam is, of course, death by stoning). But the most important fact - in fact, the only important fact in the discussion we're actually having and not the one people seem to wish we were having - is that a majority of UK Muslims in 2015 believed homosexuality should be illegal, and a majority of Britain in 1965 didn't.
    You seem spectacularly aerated by this.
    Not nearly as aerated as the - what, four people now? who have jumped in to offer various whataboutery points to a fairly straightforward that a majority of UK Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal. Only a small majority, however - similar to the proportion of Leavers who support the return of capital punishment (53%) or blue passports (52%). I look forward to seeing the people who have jumped in here offering similar counterpoints when those topics are brought up in future.

    Excluding don’t knows it’s 75%
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,061

    OT things you learn... Until reading that Gina of Matt&Gina fame is married to Oliver Tress who founded the Oliver Bonas shops, I'd always believed there was a posh bloke called Oliver Bonas running them.

    Bonas was the surname of the then girlfriend of Oliver Tress.

    IIRC she was the cousin of Prince Harry's ex, Cressida Bonas.
    Hancock is the one who has been getting the Brucie Bonas.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,692
    Roger said:

    Anyone watching Ch4 News would bet the house on Hancock going. Probably tonight. It's a firing squad

    I won't miss him if he goes.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    isam said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    But a majority? No idea but would it be Islamophobic to say so. Have there been polls? I would be amazed if it was a majority

    The link was posted in the last thread by isam; detailed tables are here (table 45, p.119).

    Results are based on interviews with 1,081 Muslims aged 18+. Interviews were carried out face-to-face, and fieldwork took place between 25 April and 31 May 2015. The data has been weighted by age, gender, region and work status.

    For each of the following statements, please tell me to what extent you agree or disagree with each one: Homosexuality should be legal in Britain

    Strongly agree: 8%
    Tend to agree: 10%
    Neither agree nor disagree: 22%
    Don't know: 8%
    Tend to disagree: 14%
    Strongly disagree: 38%
    Total agree: 18%
    Total disagree: 52%
    Worth pointing out that it's not all that many generations that you'd have got similar views if you asked this question in England as a whole. These views are old fashioned by a few decades, not a few centuries.
    A National Opinion Poll extracted from the Daily Mail in October 1965 stated that 63% of people polled disagreed that homosexual acts in private should be criminal. That's, what, 8.2 Scottish generations worth? Of course, that's not the point of posting the statistics: I do wonder if those being so circuitous about criticising Muslims for homophobia have been equally reticent when it comes to criticising Conservatives or Leavers for opinions not held by almost 100% of the bloc.
    Your quote continues. "93% believed homosexuals to need psychiatric or medical treatment."
    Was removed as a "disease" by the WHO in 1990.
    With a name like that, should you really spend this much time moving goalposts? Personally I'd rather live in a society which thought I needed medical treatment to one which thought I should be imprisoned (though the prescribed punishment in Islam is, of course, death by stoning). But the most important fact - in fact, the only important fact in the discussion we're actually having and not the one people seem to wish we were having - is that a majority of UK Muslims in 2015 believed homosexuality should be illegal, and a majority of Britain in 1965 didn't.
    You seem spectacularly aerated by this.
    Not nearly as aerated as the - what, four people now? who have jumped in to offer various whataboutery points to a fairly straightforward that a majority of UK Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal. Only a small majority, however - similar to the proportion of Leavers who support the return of capital punishment (53%) or blue passports (52%). I look forward to seeing the people who have jumped in here offering similar counterpoints when those topics are brought up in future.

    Excluding don’t knows it’s 75%
    Though the survey is six years old.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646

    Foxy said:

    PBers may be amused to learn that the three letter station code for the new Woolwich Crossrail station is WWC.

    Middle class and/or BAME passengers should not alight here!

    Crossrail has totally disappeared off my radar in the last fifteen months. It feels like a mythical beast, the denouement of a long-sought quest, never to be completed. Like Berlin Airport, the Ryugyong Hotel or the Scottish National Monument.

    At least it looks as though one of those will be fully finished. ;)
    Long time no hear! Have you been keeping well?
    Yes, thanks, though busy.

    Home schooling was an education for both of us. I felt like genuflecting myself in front of his teacher and saying: "You do this for *how* many!" In all seriousness, it has given me a healthy respect for the teaching profession.

    I've also been having my own little lockdown activities to keep myself (in)sane. A large Lego project, and I've run every day so far this year - over 1,200 miles. During lockdown, I'd go our at five in the morning to avoid people. Call it my little rebellion. ;)

    I'm also trying to run every road and path (bar motorways and the A14) in an area from Cambridge to Huntingdon, down to Sandy, across to Royston then back up to Cambridge. It feels a bit like a task of Sisyphus : every time I do a run, I find another little path that needs to be done ...

    Both myself and Mrs J are now fully vaxxed (plus two weeks), and we haven't killed each other whilst working from home. We've both avoided the pox - just as well, given Mrs J's lung problems in 2019.

    Has anything been happening in the world of politics? I suppose 2020 and 2021 have been just as quiet as 2010 to 2019 was? ;)
    Good to see you here again! Not much going on in the world, it’s still turning.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    He didn’t fire Cummings for what, bluntly, was a far more serious matter.
    Firstly, by a mile what Cummings did was less serious than this.

    Secondly, Cummings was at the time the brains behind the Boris government and it was still panic stations.

    Hancock has shown himself to be worse than inept throughout the crisis, as well as being dishonest. Which the PM admits. Secondly we are now out the woods. Sack him now or this will cast a cloud over firstly, the unlockdown, but actually the rest of his term.
    Cummings coming into work while his wife was showing symptoms of Covid was ‘by a mile less serious than this?’

    Or driving 300 miles and then repeatedly breaking quarantine while there?

    And repeatedly lying about all this?

    I have to disagree.
    I think you are forgetting that his wife was not showing Covid symptoms. She was just unwell, but definitely 100% not Covid symptoms. That's what made it okay for him to come back in.

    Then he decided that they might get Covid at a later point so needed to immediately travel over night to Durham.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,049
    edited June 2021

    ydoethur said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    Blimey. There’s optimism for you.

    The is issue is, if you fired every dodgy minister in Johnson’s government, there would hardly be anyone left. Possibly Sunak, Wallace, Hart, and perhaps Buckland and Truss on a good day. Even among the junior ministers there would be carnage.
    Typical arrogance of the Welsh.

    It is why Welsh rugby fans are hated across the world.
    Is there another example of arrogant sports fans being hated across the world?

    *entirely un-innocent face*
    Scottish fans.

    Before my time but I believe at the 1978 World Cup Scotland's manager said they'd be coming home with a medal.

    Sevco fans are known for their arrogance I believe.

    As a fan of the English association football & rugby football union teams and Liverpool FC, we are synonymous with legendary humility.
    Scottish football fans hated across the world, good one!

    You could say Sevco fans are the only truly British football fan..
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    Blimey. There’s optimism for you.

    The is issue is, if you fired every dodgy minister in Johnson’s government, there would hardly be anyone left. Possibly Sunak, Wallace, Hart, and perhaps Buckland and Truss on a good day. Even among the junior ministers there would be carnage.
    Typical arrogance of the Welsh.

    It is why Welsh rugby fans are hated across the world.
    Is there another example of arrogant sports fans being hated across the world?

    *entirely un-innocent face*
    Aussie cricket fans.
    "Cricket" entirely superfluous in that sentence.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    Banton currently showing England watch they are currently missing on the YouTube....
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Does anyone know how DavidL is following his health scare last night? Hope he is well.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    TimT said:

    Does anyone know how DavidL is following his health scare last night? Hope he is well.

    He messaged earlier to say suspected blood clot, in hospital awaiting a scan. But feeling better.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478
    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    He didn’t fire Cummings for what, bluntly, was a far more serious matter.
    Firstly, by a mile what Cummings did was less serious than this.

    Secondly, Cummings was at the time the brains behind the Boris government and it was still panic stations.

    Hancock has shown himself to be worse than inept throughout the crisis, as well as being dishonest. Which the PM admits. Secondly we are now out the woods. Sack him now or this will cast a cloud over firstly, the unlockdown, but actually the rest of his term.
    Cummings coming into work while his wife was showing symptoms of Covid was ‘by a mile less serious than this?’

    Or driving 300 miles and then repeatedly breaking quarantine while there?

    And repeatedly lying about all this?

    I have to disagree.
    I think you are forgetting that his wife was not showing Covid symptoms. She was just unwell, but definitely 100% not Covid symptoms. That's what made it okay for him to come back in.

    Then he decided that they might get Covid at a later point so needed to immediately travel over night to Durham.
    Ummm..she thought they were possible Covid symptoms.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/getting-coronavirus-does-not-bring-clarity

    In which case, the rule was for the whole household to isolate.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,545

    ydoethur said:

    NEW: Number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in Moscow reaches record-high, deputy mayor says. Exact figure not disclosed - TASS

    Is that a reflection on their vaccine programme or their vaccine?
    Very few are vaccinated in Russia. Technically their vaccine is fine, but there have been reports that the QA has been poor from some Eastern European countries who bought it.
    There is also an issue of trust in the Government of Russia, by it's citizens
  • eekeek Posts: 28,444
    Roger said:

    Anyone watching Ch4 News would bet the house on Hancock going. Probably tonight. It's a firing squad

    It is however Ch4 News which even it's most ardent viewer most agree is rather left wing and anti-Boris.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,183
    I’ll tell you what hasn’t been mentioned today. Hancock went to Cambridge. Says it all really.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    My gut instinct here is that Hancock will stay. People accept the mafia rule that we have because they get things done and there is no alternative. Johnson will just try and weather the storm. The MP's can try and rebel and suffer the same fate as the brexit rebels.
    Nicola Sturgeon was caught without a mask at a funeral and sat out the furore.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478
    Mortimer said:

    Hugely relieved to see @DavidL posting again today. Thanks for letting us know David, and well done for seeking medical advice!

    Good to see that, had been wondering (and worrying). is 54 a record for likes?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Does anyone know how DavidL is following his health scare last night? Hope he is well.

    He messaged earlier to say suspected blood clot, in hospital awaiting a scan. But feeling better.
    Thanks. Good he found his way to hospital then.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271

    ydoethur said:

    NEW: Number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in Moscow reaches record-high, deputy mayor says. Exact figure not disclosed - TASS

    Is that a reflection on their vaccine programme or their vaccine?
    Very few are vaccinated in Russia. Technically their vaccine is fine, but there have been reports that the QA has been poor from some Eastern European countries who bought it.
    There is also an issue of trust in the Government of Russia, by it's citizens
    No idea why......
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442

    ydoethur said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    Blimey. There’s optimism for you.

    The is issue is, if you fired every dodgy minister in Johnson’s government, there would hardly be anyone left. Possibly Sunak, Wallace, Hart, and perhaps Buckland and Truss on a good day. Even among the junior ministers there would be carnage.
    Typical arrogance of the Welsh.

    It is why Welsh rugby fans are hated across the world.
    Is there another example of arrogant sports fans being hated across the world?

    *entirely un-innocent face*
    Scottish fans.

    Before my time but I believe at the 1978 World Cup Scotland's manager said they'd be coming home with a medal.

    Sevco fans are known for their arrogance I believe.

    As a fan of the English association football & rugby football union teams and Liverpool FC, we are synonymous with legendary humility.
    You could say Sevco fans are the only truly British football fan..
    We can always interrogate the large historical record of their behaviour at world cup finals to find out...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058

    ydoethur said:

    NEW: Number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in Moscow reaches record-high, deputy mayor says. Exact figure not disclosed - TASS

    Is that a reflection on their vaccine programme or their vaccine?
    Very few are vaccinated in Russia. Technically their vaccine is fine, but there have been reports that the QA has been poor from some Eastern European countries who bought it.
    There is also an issue of trust in the Government of Russia, by it's citizens
    My Russia mole reckoned another factor is that the place is really, really big, with a handful of modern cities and an awful lot of nothing and nowheresville in between.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271

    ydoethur said:

    NEW: Number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in Moscow reaches record-high, deputy mayor says. Exact figure not disclosed - TASS

    Is that a reflection on their vaccine programme or their vaccine?
    Very few are vaccinated in Russia. Technically their vaccine is fine, but there have been reports that the QA has been poor from some Eastern European countries who bought it.
    There is also an issue of trust in the Government of Russia, by it's citizens
    My Russia mole reckoned another factor is that the place is really, really big, with a handful of modern cities and an awful lot of nothing and nowheresville in between.
    Canada seems to be managing....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,183
    tlg86 said:

    I’ll tell you what hasn’t been mentioned today. Hancock went to Cambridge. Says it all really.

    Oh, that was post-grad - he has a foot in both camps. Definitely the worst kind! :lol:
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    I've spent far too much time and money in the Oliver Bonas in Manchester Piccadilly railway station.

    Killing time while waiting for a train I can understand but buying what exactly?
    Dresses and body glitter mostly.

    I had a wife and girlfriend (not concurrently) who love shopping in there, and it was a case 'If you're there get me X and anything you think looks good on me.
    What would have happened if you came back with nothing, and simply ‘that’s what you look best in?’
    Unwise...
    Is this not the modern version of sitting on a branch sawing it half off and hoping for the best?

    Me, I've spent the day improving a tenant's house with a small extension, and the bloody rain has bloody rained all over my bloody washing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646

    ydoethur said:

    NEW: Number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in Moscow reaches record-high, deputy mayor says. Exact figure not disclosed - TASS

    Is that a reflection on their vaccine programme or their vaccine?
    Very few are vaccinated in Russia. Technically their vaccine is fine, but there have been reports that the QA has been poor from some Eastern European countries who bought it.
    Russia is a hotbed of anti-vax conspiracy theories, and was even before this pandemic.

    Surveys show something like 10% eager to be vaccinated, a combination of distrust of the government, distrust of the vaccine (it’s 50% effective) and numerous, bonkers other reasons such as it makes you sick and you can give everyone you meet Covid by getting vaccinated.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    What's Hancock got on Johnson?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,010

    Pattern of hospitalisations against cases in England continuing.

    Cases by specimen date translucent; hospitalisations seven days lagged in full colour. Dashed lines represent 7-day averages for each.

    Is it better to scale the vertical axis on a log scale?
    I considered that, but I think the linear scale is more intuitive for visualising the current situation and a direct comparison of the scale of hospitalisations vs cases.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    ydoethur said:

    NEW: Number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in Moscow reaches record-high, deputy mayor says. Exact figure not disclosed - TASS

    Is that a reflection on their vaccine programme or their vaccine?
    Very few are vaccinated in Russia. Technically their vaccine is fine, but there have been reports that the QA has been poor from some Eastern European countries who bought it.
    There is also an issue of trust in the Government of Russia, by it's citizens
    My Russia mole reckoned another factor is that the place is really, really big, with a handful of modern cities and an awful lot of nothing and nowheresville in between.
    I assumed the relatively low vaccination rate in Russia at the moment was at least impart down to exporting a lot of there Vaccines, to make money and or friends. but could be wrong.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    He didn’t fire Cummings for what, bluntly, was a far more serious matter.
    Firstly, by a mile what Cummings did was less serious than this.

    Secondly, Cummings was at the time the brains behind the Boris government and it was still panic stations.

    Hancock has shown himself to be worse than inept throughout the crisis, as well as being dishonest. Which the PM admits. Secondly we are now out the woods. Sack him now or this will cast a cloud over firstly, the unlockdown, but actually the rest of his term.
    Cummings coming into work while his wife was showing symptoms of Covid was ‘by a mile less serious than this?’

    Or driving 300 miles and then repeatedly breaking quarantine while there?

    And repeatedly lying about all this?

    I have to disagree.
    I think you are forgetting that his wife was not showing Covid symptoms. She was just unwell, but definitely 100% not Covid symptoms. That's what made it okay for him to come back in.

    Then he decided that they might get Covid at a later point so needed to immediately travel over night to Durham.
    Ummm..she thought they were possible Covid symptoms.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/getting-coronavirus-does-not-bring-clarity

    In which case, the rule was for the whole household to isolate.
    That's correct. Cummings story is that she was ill with not-Covid symptoms and then after checking on her and returning to the office Cummings became so concerned about her Covid symptoms that he took action.

    And that is the story he's sticking to.

    No, it does not make any sense and is an insult to the general public's intelligence that he even proffered it.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,444
    edited June 2021
    Fenman said:

    What's Hancock got on Johnson?

    Nothing - the issue is that Hancock hasn't done anything Johnson hasn't also done.

    And Boris knows 1 rule for him and another rule for Hancock is asking for trouble.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,010
    rcs1000 said:

    Pattern of hospitalisations against cases in England continuing.

    Cases by specimen date translucent; hospitalisations seven days lagged in full colour. Dashed lines represent 7-day averages for each.

    Even that exaggerates the issue, as the growth of the number in hospital is only running at 9% week over week.
    I need to work out a way of adding that without making it too busy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021
    BigRich said:

    ydoethur said:

    NEW: Number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in Moscow reaches record-high, deputy mayor says. Exact figure not disclosed - TASS

    Is that a reflection on their vaccine programme or their vaccine?
    Very few are vaccinated in Russia. Technically their vaccine is fine, but there have been reports that the QA has been poor from some Eastern European countries who bought it.
    There is also an issue of trust in the Government of Russia, by it's citizens
    My Russia mole reckoned another factor is that the place is really, really big, with a handful of modern cities and an awful lot of nothing and nowheresville in between.
    I assumed the relatively low vaccination rate in Russia at the moment was at least impart down to exporting a lot of there Vaccines, to make money and or friends. but could be wrong.
    No, they can't give it away in Russia. So much so, they had German vaccine tourists as they had so much going unused.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058
    Fenman said:

    What's Hancock got on Johnson?

    Precedent? Why is Hancock's paramour different from any that Boris had in office?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    ydoethur said:

    Mortimer said:

    Hugely relieved to see @DavidL posting again today. Thanks for letting us know David, and well done for seeking medical advice!

    Good to see that, had been wondering (and worrying). is 54 a record for likes?
    No, JohnO has the record with 60 likes recently, when he told us all he was better after his cardiac arrest.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,545
    BigRich said:

    ydoethur said:

    NEW: Number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in Moscow reaches record-high, deputy mayor says. Exact figure not disclosed - TASS

    Is that a reflection on their vaccine programme or their vaccine?
    Very few are vaccinated in Russia. Technically their vaccine is fine, but there have been reports that the QA has been poor from some Eastern European countries who bought it.
    There is also an issue of trust in the Government of Russia, by it's citizens
    My Russia mole reckoned another factor is that the place is really, really big, with a handful of modern cities and an awful lot of nothing and nowheresville in between.
    I assumed the relatively low vaccination rate in Russia at the moment was at least impart down to exporting a lot of there Vaccines, to make money and or friends. but could be wrong.
    According to my Russian friends and relatives, vaccination is on a walk in basis with no queues, in Moscow and has been from the start. Tons of capacity not used.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    When Wales beats Denmark tomorrow, and England lose to Germany, with Kane misfiring again, on Tuesday the narrative will be football and then the B&S election will make the headlines

    Hancock may get away it it but that does not excuse the fact he should have resigned/ been sacked

    The only reason I can think of why a PM would not fire a Cabinet minister for so disgracefully undermining the flagship policy of the government, is because the PM has been doing the same. I start to ponder that Johnson is not long for his job.
    He didn’t fire Cummings for what, bluntly, was a far more serious matter.
    Firstly, by a mile what Cummings did was less serious than this.

    Secondly, Cummings was at the time the brains behind the Boris government and it was still panic stations.

    Hancock has shown himself to be worse than inept throughout the crisis, as well as being dishonest. Which the PM admits. Secondly we are now out the woods. Sack him now or this will cast a cloud over firstly, the unlockdown, but actually the rest of his term.
    Cummings coming into work while his wife was showing symptoms of Covid was ‘by a mile less serious than this?’

    Or driving 300 miles and then repeatedly breaking quarantine while there?

    And repeatedly lying about all this?

    I have to disagree.
    I think you are forgetting that his wife was not showing Covid symptoms. She was just unwell, but definitely 100% not Covid symptoms. That's what made it okay for him to come back in.

    Then he decided that they might get Covid at a later point so needed to immediately travel over night to Durham.
    Ummm..she thought they were possible Covid symptoms.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/getting-coronavirus-does-not-bring-clarity

    In which case, the rule was for the whole household to isolate.
    Also I think at this stage we can treat her diary pieces as works of fiction.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I’ll tell you what hasn’t been mentioned today. Hancock went to Cambridge. Says it all really.

    Oh, that was post-grad - he has a foot in both camps. Definitely the worst kind! :lol:
    He saw what a dump Oxford was and wanted to do his post grad at Cambridge, which is what Stephen Hawking did, and he was a pretty clever chap.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    PBers may be amused to learn that the three letter station code for the new Woolwich Crossrail station is WWC.

    Middle class and/or BAME passengers should not alight here!

    Crossrail has totally disappeared off my radar in the last fifteen months. It feels like a mythical beast, the denouement of a long-sought quest, never to be completed. Like Berlin Airport, the Ryugyong Hotel or the Scottish National Monument.

    At least it looks as though one of those will be fully finished. ;)
    Welcome back!
This discussion has been closed.