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  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Striking story from WWII:

    A mutiny began in the U.S. Army #OTD 1943 in Bamber Bridge, Lancs after U.S. Military Police attempted to arrest black soldiers from the 1511th Quartermaster Truck Regiment. When commanders demanded a colour bar in the town, pubs in the village posted “Black Troops Only” signs.

    https://twitter.com/EnglishRadical/status/1407960455876857857?s=20
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,869
    edited June 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    The horror!
    The mask slips.....as we know to EU bods, such an arrangement just isn't sufficient.
    To be fair, the EU treaties say you must adhere to the following things.

    That's the nature of treaties generally.

    I think the EU should go through the process of expelling them, simply because either the treaties mean what they say, or they don't.
    It would be ironic if they end up reforming the treaties in an effort to kick a country out after refusing to reform them to keep a country in.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Can anyone tell me whether *all* travellers *from* the UK abroad currently have have one of being vaccinated or have a negative COVID test?

    My understanding is that you can't fly to the UK without a negative Covid test, vaccinated or otherwise.
    Thanks.

    Do we place any restrictions on travel *from* here, do you know?

    I am trying to get at whether we already severely limit travel to the continent.
    I don't think so. Someone leaving the UK is not really our concern (unless they happen to be a UK citizen).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478

    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    The horror!
    The mask slips.....as we know to EU bods, such an arrangement just isn't sufficient.
    To be fair, the EU treaties say you must adhere to the following things.

    That's the nature of treaties generally.

    I think the EU should go through the process of expelling them, simply because either the treaties mean what they say, or they don't.
    It would be ironic if they end up reforming the treaties in an effort to kick a country out after refusing to reform them to keep a country in.
    Karma’s a bitch...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478

    Striking story from WWII:

    A mutiny began in the U.S. Army #OTD 1943 in Bamber Bridge, Lancs after U.S. Military Police attempted to arrest black soldiers from the 1511th Quartermaster Truck Regiment. When commanders demanded a colour bar in the town, pubs in the village posted “Black Troops Only” signs.

    https://twitter.com/EnglishRadical/status/1407960455876857857?s=20

    Loosely retold in Nevil Shute’s postwar novel The Chequer Board.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Can anyone tell me whether *all* travellers *from* the UK abroad currently have have one of being vaccinated or have a negative COVID test?

    My understanding is that you can't fly to the UK without a negative Covid test, vaccinated or otherwise.
    Thanks.

    Do we place any restrictions on travel *from* here, do you know?

    I am trying to get at whether we already severely limit travel to the continent.
    I don't think so. Someone leaving the UK is not really our concern (unless they happen to be a UK citizen).
    And then there needs to be a negative before they return to UK (even for a green list country).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Can anyone tell me whether *all* travellers *from* the UK abroad currently have have one of being vaccinated or have a negative COVID test?

    My understanding is that you can't fly to the UK without a negative Covid test, vaccinated or otherwise.
    Thanks.

    Do we place any restrictions on travel *from* here, do you know?

    I am trying to get at whether we already severely limit travel to the continent.
    A couple of days ago, HMG published two new pages: travel in; travel out (of England).

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/travel-to-england-from-another-country-during-coronavirus-covid-19
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/travel-abroad-from-england-during-coronavirus-covid-19
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    edited June 2021
    Stocky said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Can anyone tell me whether *all* travellers *from* the UK abroad currently have have one of being vaccinated or have a negative COVID test?

    My understanding is that you can't fly to the UK without a negative Covid test, vaccinated or otherwise.
    Thanks.

    Do we place any restrictions on travel *from* here, do you know?

    I am trying to get at whether we already severely limit travel to the continent.
    I don't think so. Someone leaving the UK is not really our concern (unless they happen to be a UK citizen).
    And then there needs to be a negative before they return to UK (even for a green list country).
    That's correct (and is, indeed, currently the case I believe).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    NEW: Portugal suspends lifting of coronavirus restrictions as new cases continue to rise, fueled by the Delta variant

    Lisbon had already introduced a partial lockdown at weekends (so carefully calibrated to have no material effect other than annoy people).

    Europe is really running the risk of just pushing the problem into Q4.
    Given that the EU will be fully vaccinated by the end of August, why would the problem persist until Q4?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Can anyone tell me whether *all* travellers *from* the UK abroad currently have have one of being vaccinated or have a negative COVID test?

    My understanding is that you can't fly to the UK without a negative Covid test, vaccinated or otherwise.
    That's right. The very minimum (from Green country) is a negative test before you return to UK - AND there will be a further mandatory PCR test two days after return. (Obvs, rules for returning from Amber and Red countries are far more onerous.)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756
    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    darkage said:

    I was out in London last night.

    Went to a bar. Absolute toss. Socially distanced queueing, before being escorted to socially distanced tables.

    Then order drinks by app.

    What’s the point?

    Covid theatre.
    Afraid to say I rather like the ordering drinks by app. No need to break up the flow of chat by someone having to disappear to the bar to queue for ten minutes.

    Of course I realise this probably means the pub is losing money, so not a long term good idea. Unless some places keep it and up their prices to pay for it.

    darkage said:

    I was out in London last night.

    Went to a bar. Absolute toss. Socially distanced queueing, before being escorted to socially distanced tables.

    Then order drinks by app.

    What’s the point?

    Covid theatre.
    Afraid to say I rather like the ordering drinks by app. No need to break up the flow of chat by someone having to disappear to the bar to queue for ten minutes.

    Of course I realise this probably means the pub is losing money, so not a long term good idea. Unless some places keep it and up their prices to pay for it.
    I detest eating out. The worst covid misery totalitarians are Nandos. I've been twice in the covid era and each time have spent 45 minutes messing around on my phone trying to set up an account and do an order on their terrible anti user friendly phone battery destroying app. It used to take about 2 minutes going up to the till and ordering, now this agonising ordeal of ordering, totally kills the whole meal.
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    rcs1000 said:

    NEW: Portugal suspends lifting of coronavirus restrictions as new cases continue to rise, fueled by the Delta variant

    Lisbon had already introduced a partial lockdown at weekends (so carefully calibrated to have no material effect other than annoy people).

    Europe is really running the risk of just pushing the problem into Q4.
    Given that the EU will be fully vaccinated by the end of August, why would the problem persist until Q4?
    Because I don’t believe that they will be “fully vaccinated”. I could well be wrong of course.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,240

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    Boris said he would and this was on the basis of this lot being forseeable ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478
    An inspiration to all of us who are getting on in years, but still feel we’ve got it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/57598307
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230
    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Can anyone tell me whether *all* travellers *from* the UK abroad currently have have one of being vaccinated or have a negative COVID test?

    My understanding is that you can't fly to the UK without a negative Covid test, vaccinated or otherwise.
    Thanks.

    Do we place any restrictions on travel *from* here, do you know?

    I am trying to get at whether we already severely limit travel to the continent.
    I don't think so. Someone leaving the UK is not really our concern (unless they happen to be a UK citizen).
    And then there needs to be a negative before they return to UK (even for a green list country).
    That's correct (and is, indeed, currently the case I believe).
    Isn't is astonishing that the government thinks people who spend time in a country with lower rates of infection than the UK are higher risk that people who visit parts of our own country with high rates? Or perhaps they don't really think this and this is all about politics?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442
    rcs1000 said:

    NEW: Portugal suspends lifting of coronavirus restrictions as new cases continue to rise, fueled by the Delta variant

    Lisbon had already introduced a partial lockdown at weekends (so carefully calibrated to have no material effect other than annoy people).

    Europe is really running the risk of just pushing the problem into Q4.
    Given that the EU will be fully vaccinated by the end of August, why would the problem persist until Q4?
    Treating that as a non-cynical comment, "fully vaccinated" has a definition on wheels.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    another thing which I noticed is the amount of places that don't accept cash anymore. I found myself in central london with no cards on me and only cash, I was turned away from literally all of the outlets in charing cross station, the only place I could buy dinner from was marks and spencer.

    I went in to Itsu and just well how the fuck am I going to eat anything if no one accepts cash and the woman behind the counter just shrugged.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,684

    Revelation about bears in woods next…

    In EU capitals, suspicion is growing that PM Boris Johnson signed the Withdrawal Agreement and the Northern Ireland Protocol simply to get elected and get Brexit over the line—then, create a fuss over the detailed provisions and try to get a better deal

    https://twitter.com/carolinegruyter/status/1407983413622099973?s=21

    This has been obvious for ages. The interesting question is whether it would have been possible to actually achieve Brexit, given what had already happened over Ireland, except by making an agreement which would have to be modified later.

    SFAICS, given the GFA, there is no possible deal which doesn't breach someone's integrity; the question is going to be whose.

    Control of the narrative will be important. Our approach I suppose will be some version of 'Is the EU really prepared to have a return to violence for the sake of a few perfectly wholesome sausages slipping over the border?'

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756
    ydoethur said:

    An inspiration to all of us who are getting on in years, but still feel we’ve got it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/57598307

    Oh to be only 45!
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited June 2021
    OllyT said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!

    Thought it was coming.

    Boris waiting till he knew it was all a moot point before opening up travel from the UK side??
    Not only has Boris's stupidity in not red-listing India earlier resulted in "Freedom Day" being postponed in the UK he has pretty much guaranteed that nobody else in Europe is going to want to allow us in to their countries either.

    What is the f***g point of allowing vaccinated Brits to travel if we can't go anywhere?

    To add insult to injury he will turn round and tell us how unreasonable the EU for not letting Brits travel and the usual suspects will wave their union jacks and cheer him on. Boris needs us to be constantly "at war" with the rest of Europe to keep the troops fired up but it will not serve us well.
    This may arguably be true but let’s face it this is also France playing silly buggers. It makes a complete mockery of their previous policy requiring a negative test AND double vaccination if they don’t actually think this is sufficient to let people in. Especially when it’s pretty obvious that Delta is well seeded in the EU and closing borders to vaccinated U.K. citizens will make absolutely no difference.

    And it’s also short sighted. Any approach that aspires to exiting this and returning to normality has to trust in the vaccines. Otherwise there’s no realistic prospect of escape.

    I also wouldn’t be totally surprised if this is linked to growing pressure to remove the Euro2020 finals from Wembley.

    Well that and a continuous desire to play down the success of the U.K. vaccination programme.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,858
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Can anyone tell me whether *all* travellers *from* the UK abroad currently have have one of being vaccinated or have a negative COVID test?

    My understanding is that you can't fly to the UK without a negative Covid test, vaccinated or otherwise.
    Having flown in last night there is a big difference between what you 'can' do and what you are 'supposed' to do as my Covid test document and my passenger location form stayed securely in my closed bag without being looked at, at Gatwick. It was a vaguely checked at the Portuguese end but it would have been dead easy to mock up a local test certificate and as my passenger location form was in a plastic folder and not removed only the front page was seen.

    And the authorities only know who I am to check on me because I have done the tests and filled out the form. Unless they are cross checking flight details with Passenger Location Forms and following up on any absent forms I can't see where the checks are for anyone who doesn't want to fork out (In my case £60 + 60 Euros + £85).

    Not impressed unless there is something cunning going on in the background.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442
    edited June 2021

    tlg86 said:

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    The horror!
    The mask slips.....as we know to EU bods, such an arrangement just isn't sufficient.
    No mask. The EU bods never intended for the EU to be that.

    It was only British politicians and Remainers who were adamant the EU was just a trade bloc etc despite Europeans being keen for that not to be what it was.

    It's why Britain was in hindsight fundamentally unsuitable for Europe. All the talk of two speeds etc never worked, either people should have got on board with the full project or got off the train.

    We eventually did the right thing and I hope the Dutch etc can now do the right thing for them without us in their way. Good luck to them. But yes the Hungarians should be expelled, but I don't think they can be. No idea how they fix that mess.
    Does the expulsion process even exist?

    The 'voluntary' process did not exist for the first 50 years, and then when it was 'created' it was deliberately crippled to make it impossible to use.

    And then people wonder whether certain things were said a little cynically. Duh.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,165
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    NEW: Portugal suspends lifting of coronavirus restrictions as new cases continue to rise, fueled by the Delta variant

    Lisbon had already introduced a partial lockdown at weekends (so carefully calibrated to have no material effect other than annoy people).

    Europe is really running the risk of just pushing the problem into Q4.
    Given that the EU will be fully vaccinated by the end of August, why would the problem persist until Q4?
    Treating that as a non-cynical comment, "fully vaccinated" has a definition on wheels.
    Indeed - Spain is hoping for 70% by the end of July.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058

    Jesus, I fell down the New Thread hole again...

    FPT: FrancisUrquhart said:
    Compare with BBC / ITV "analysis"...its like watching standard def vs UHD TV.

    Where is Jadon Sancho? from Tifo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q1RUIxgOpE

    Just a different level of analysis and insight.


    I'm watching a lot more YouTube since lockdown began. You can just nerd out on any subject you want, it's amazing. To be fair to the BBC, ITN, etc, they just don't have the time to go into this level of detail, and it is detail that would probably see a lot of people switching off pretty quickly.

    But we are very fortunate to have YouTube.

    And may I also give an honourable mention to these guys, going from strength to strength: https://www.historyhit.com/

    Big thumbs up for YouTube although like anything else algorithmical I find it a bit unnerving. Classic wrestling matches, superhero star wars speculation, whisky reviews, weird facts about songs, and now TIFO. I find it weird when it notifies me on my phone!
    Has the Youtube algorithm changed? In the last couple of days, it seems to have decided I'm Pakistani. Or it may be that it is based on my IP address but you'd think Google would know better than that: IP addresses for domestic users are not fixed and move from person to person.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    Needlessly petulant posturing of the highest order, Sheffield style.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-57598101
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    edited June 2021
    On topic, bring back the birch or the death penalty for antivaxxers.

    Either will do, they should not be allowed to hold the rest of society back.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,819
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913

    I see that EE is bringing back roaming charges for travel in Europe. The Brexit dividend continues.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478

    On topic, bring back the birch or the death penalty for antivaxxers.

    Either will do.

    The whole point of getting vaccinated is to avoid dying of a killer disease.

    So I would say the second is part and parcel of being an antivaxxer...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,819
    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    The horror!
    The mask slips.....as we know to EU bods, such an arrangement just isn't sufficient.
    No mask. The EU bods never intended for the EU to be that.

    It was only British politicians and Remainers who were adamant the EU was just a trade bloc etc despite Europeans being keen for that not to be what it was.

    It's why Britain was in hindsight fundamentally unsuitable for Europe. All the talk of two speeds etc never worked, either people should have got on board with the full project or got off the train.

    We eventually did the right thing and I hope the Dutch etc can now do the right thing for them without us in their way. Good luck to them. But yes the Hungarians should be expelled, but I don't think they can be. No idea how they fix that mess.
    Does the expulsion process even exist?

    The 'voluntary' process did not exist for the first 50 years, and then when it was 'created' it was deliberately crippled to make it impossible to use.

    And then people wonder whether certain things were said a little cynically. Duh.
    No need to expell anyone. The worst will leave of their own accord.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363

    Striking story from WWII:

    A mutiny began in the U.S. Army #OTD 1943 in Bamber Bridge, Lancs after U.S. Military Police attempted to arrest black soldiers from the 1511th Quartermaster Truck Regiment. When commanders demanded a colour bar in the town, pubs in the village posted “Black Troops Only” signs.

    https://twitter.com/EnglishRadical/status/1407960455876857857?s=20

    Bet they were accused of virtue signalling.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913

    I see that EE is bringing back roaming charges for travel in Europe. The Brexit dividend continues.

    On my last holiday in the EU I used just over 300GB in a fortnight.

    *Sob*
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913

    I see that EE is bringing back roaming charges for travel in Europe. The Brexit dividend continues.

    On my last holiday in the EU I used just over 300GB in a fortnight.

    *Sob*
    That is a *lot* of stepmom.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,545
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,545
    England PCR

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,545
    UK Case summary

    image
    image
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    alex_ said:

    OllyT said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!

    Thought it was coming.

    Boris waiting till he knew it was all a moot point before opening up travel from the UK side??
    Not only has Boris's stupidity in not red-listing India earlier resulted in "Freedom Day" being postponed in the UK he has pretty much guaranteed that nobody else in Europe is going to want to allow us in to their countries either.

    What is the f***g point of allowing vaccinated Brits to travel if we can't go anywhere?

    To add insult to injury he will turn round and tell us how unreasonable the EU for not letting Brits travel and the usual suspects will wave their union jacks and cheer him on. Boris needs us to be constantly "at war" with the rest of Europe to keep the troops fired up but it will not serve us well.
    This may arguably be true but let’s face it this is also France playing silly buggers. It makes a complete mockery of their previous policy requiring a negative test AND double vaccination if they don’t actually think this is sufficient to let people in. Especially when it’s pretty obvious that Delta is well seeded in the EU and closing borders to vaccinated U.K. citizens will make absolutely no difference.

    And it’s also short sighted. Any approach that aspires to exiting this and returning to normality has to trust in the vaccines. Otherwise there’s no realistic prospect of escape.

    I also wouldn’t be totally surprised if this is linked to growing pressure to remove the Euro2020 finals from Wembley.

    Well that and a continuous desire to play down the success of the U.K. vaccination programme.
    Why are you so confidant that the Delta variant is well seeded in the EU? you may be right, but I haven't seen any reason to think so. in Portugal yes, Sweden and Finland yes, Spain yes, but elsewhere no so sure, geeminy has just had a 48% WoW drop, so hard to see it being that 'well seeded' there.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,545
    edited June 2021
    UK hospitals

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363
    darkage said:

    another thing which I noticed is the amount of places that don't accept cash anymore. I found myself in central london with no cards on me and only cash, I was turned away from literally all of the outlets in charing cross station, the only place I could buy dinner from was marks and spencer.

    I went in to Itsu and just well how the fuck am I going to eat anything if no one accepts cash and the woman behind the counter just shrugged.

    The pandemic has killed my cash habit and I don't think it's coming back. It's been over 15 months now since I last used.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,318

    MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    The horror!
    The mask slips.....as we know to EU bods, such an arrangement just isn't sufficient.
    No mask. The EU bods never intended for the EU to be that.

    It was only British politicians and Remainers who were adamant the EU was just a trade bloc etc despite Europeans being keen for that not to be what it was.

    It's why Britain was in hindsight fundamentally unsuitable for Europe. All the talk of two speeds etc never worked, either people should have got on board with the full project or got off the train.

    We eventually did the right thing and I hope the Dutch etc can now do the right thing for them without us in their way. Good luck to them. But yes the Hungarians should be expelled, but I don't think they can be. No idea how they fix that mess.
    Does the expulsion process even exist?

    The 'voluntary' process did not exist for the first 50 years, and then when it was 'created' it was deliberately crippled to make it impossible to use.

    And then people wonder whether certain things were said a little cynically. Duh.
    No need to expell anyone. The worst will leave of their own accord.
    Perhaps Farage and Boris Johnson were actually EU moles. Maybe they will send them both to Hungary. Let us hope they get on with it
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913

    I see that EE is bringing back roaming charges for travel in Europe. The Brexit dividend continues.

    On my last holiday in the EU I used just over 300GB in a fortnight.

    *Sob*
    That is a *lot* of stepmom.
    How dare you madam.

    Holiday coincided with test matches, a grand prix, and constant video calling with the parents and kids.

    The villa was lovely but had no satellite channels or decent broadband speed.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442
    edited June 2021
    Re: WW2 racism etc. I was going to post this little account before - relations amongst black and white in a US navy yard when the USN borrowed HMS Victorious for a few months in WW2 when they only had one carrier available in the Pacific. Personally I think it may be slightly partial, but essentially accurate.

    "The Americans were security mad. Every dockyard worker on board had a rating allocated to watch him full time, and if he was welding on a bulkhead, he had two. One in the compartment he was in, and one in the compartment which backed on to it, both armed with fire extinguishers. As there were a lot of them, and they worked right through in shifts, they put quite a stain on our manpower.

    The American Naval Authorities could not do anything about this arrangement as it was a civil law, and out of their hands. After much argument’ it was arranged that they would supply working parties to help with the handling of the re-armament stores And when they did, that started a real fire storm.

    Remember we were in West* Virginia, the birthplace of rabid segregationists and the Klu Klux Klan, who were still, apparently alive and well. We had already found that public transport, restaurants, and every other public facility were plainly marked, ‘Whites Only’ and ‘Others’. So when the first working party arrived at the gangway, it was not surprising to see they were negroes, escorted by four white naval NCOs complete with side arms and batons.

    When the O.O.W. refused them permission to come aboard carrying arms, in which he included the batons, he was asked, in less than polite terms,” how do you expect us to keep these black ‘B’s in order without guns”. The O.O.W. was adamant, and it finished up with a big con-flab between Capt. McIntosh and the base Senior Officer, with I believe, signals to and from Admiralty. They must have backed McIntosh, because from there on the work party arrived at the ship, complete with armed escort, who then turned them over to the O.O.W, did an about turn and departed, no doubt spitting and spluttering about the damm limeys giving the F**** black B**** ideas above their station.

    These working parties worked with however many of the ship’s company could be mustered, but it took them a while to feel at ease working alongside, and doing the same jobs as ‘you mad whities’ as they called us. And they did work, hard. Perhaps we sowed the seeds of a cultural revolution, This discrimination caused quite a few fights ashore, and as the American Naval Police were so bigoted, we instituted our own shore patrols to work with them."

    https://www.armouredcarriers.com/uss-robin-hms-victorious
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337

    On topic, bring back the birch or the death penalty for antivaxxers.

    Either will do, they should not be allowed to hold the rest of society back.

    Didn’t see you as a racist.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,545
    UK deaths

    image
    image
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,968
    BigRich said:

    alex_ said:

    OllyT said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!

    Thought it was coming.

    Boris waiting till he knew it was all a moot point before opening up travel from the UK side??
    Not only has Boris's stupidity in not red-listing India earlier resulted in "Freedom Day" being postponed in the UK he has pretty much guaranteed that nobody else in Europe is going to want to allow us in to their countries either.

    What is the f***g point of allowing vaccinated Brits to travel if we can't go anywhere?

    To add insult to injury he will turn round and tell us how unreasonable the EU for not letting Brits travel and the usual suspects will wave their union jacks and cheer him on. Boris needs us to be constantly "at war" with the rest of Europe to keep the troops fired up but it will not serve us well.
    This may arguably be true but let’s face it this is also France playing silly buggers. It makes a complete mockery of their previous policy requiring a negative test AND double vaccination if they don’t actually think this is sufficient to let people in. Especially when it’s pretty obvious that Delta is well seeded in the EU and closing borders to vaccinated U.K. citizens will make absolutely no difference.

    And it’s also short sighted. Any approach that aspires to exiting this and returning to normality has to trust in the vaccines. Otherwise there’s no realistic prospect of escape.

    I also wouldn’t be totally surprised if this is linked to growing pressure to remove the Euro2020 finals from Wembley.

    Well that and a continuous desire to play down the success of the U.K. vaccination programme.
    Why are you so confidant that the Delta variant is well seeded in the EU? you may be right, but I haven't seen any reason to think so. in Portugal yes, Sweden and Finland yes, Spain yes, but elsewhere no so sure, geeminy has just had a 48% WoW drop, so hard to see it being that 'well seeded' there.
    10% of cases in France are now the Delta variant. That number will only go up.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    This is all still localised.

    Yes Scotland, the North and South West are all rocketing upwards like a kangaroo on speed despite me being assured beyond doubt that they had already peaked but London, for example, is only creeping upwards.

    Different parts of the country were hit very, very differently in Autumn and Winter and we are now seeing that affect in Summer.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Pulpstar said:

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    Boris said he would and this was on the basis of this lot being forseeable ?
    Its not about 'safety' its not about 'vaccinations' or anything else

    The reason we are leaving lockdown, if we are, is that cases are rising alarmingly.

    Cases of southern conservative voters either not turning up or voting for someone else, that is.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,545
    Age related data

    image
    image
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913

    I see that EE is bringing back roaming charges for travel in Europe. The Brexit dividend continues.

    On my last holiday in the EU I used just over 300GB in a fortnight.

    *Sob*
    Somewhere, in the far distance, I can just about make out the scraping of a tiny violin.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,614

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    If we look again at Johnson's statement on the 14th June - https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-at-coronavirus-press-conference-14-june-2021 - I would particularly draw your attention to these bits:

    "By Monday 19th July we will aim to have double jabbed around two thirds of the adult population including everyone over 50, all the vulnerable, all the frontline health and care workers and everyone over 40 who received their first dose by mid-May....
    And we will bring forward our target to give every adult in this country a first dose by 19th July that is including young people over the age of 18..."


    Johnson explicitly linked the 19th July date with these milestones towards completion of the vaccination program, rather than reducing the number of cases, because, as he went on to say:

    "It is unmistakably clear the vaccines are working..."

    So, while I have often been very critical of Johnson, and wouldn't normally quote him approvingly, I think these quotes do give grounds for optimism that the 19th July date can be stuck to, provided that the vaccination program doesn't come to a halt.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,545
    Vaccinations

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited June 2021
    BigRich said:

    alex_ said:

    OllyT said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!

    Thought it was coming.

    Boris waiting till he knew it was all a moot point before opening up travel from the UK side??
    Not only has Boris's stupidity in not red-listing India earlier resulted in "Freedom Day" being postponed in the UK he has pretty much guaranteed that nobody else in Europe is going to want to allow us in to their countries either.

    What is the f***g point of allowing vaccinated Brits to travel if we can't go anywhere?

    To add insult to injury he will turn round and tell us how unreasonable the EU for not letting Brits travel and the usual suspects will wave their union jacks and cheer him on. Boris needs us to be constantly "at war" with the rest of Europe to keep the troops fired up but it will not serve us well.
    This may arguably be true but let’s face it this is also France playing silly buggers. It makes a complete mockery of their previous policy requiring a negative test AND double vaccination if they don’t actually think this is sufficient to let people in. Especially when it’s pretty obvious that Delta is well seeded in the EU and closing borders to vaccinated U.K. citizens will make absolutely no difference.

    And it’s also short sighted. Any approach that aspires to exiting this and returning to normality has to trust in the vaccines. Otherwise there’s no realistic prospect of escape.

    I also wouldn’t be totally surprised if this is linked to growing pressure to remove the Euro2020 finals from Wembley.

    Well that and a continuous desire to play down the success of the U.K. vaccination programme.
    Why are you so confidant that the Delta variant is well seeded in the EU? you may be right, but I haven't seen any reason to think so. in Portugal yes, Sweden and Finland yes, Spain yes, but elsewhere no so sure, geeminy has just had a 48% WoW drop, so hard to see it being that 'well seeded' there.
    As far as I’m aware there are little or no restrictions on movement within the EU now. So if it’s in some places, it’s going to get to most of them. And of course the key factor is not what cases are doing in general but what cases of Delta are doing.

    So you may be right. But it’s really a matter of time. Note I’m talking about the policy of preventing vaccinated people from travelling - not a free for all.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    alex_ said:

    OllyT said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!

    Thought it was coming.

    Boris waiting till he knew it was all a moot point before opening up travel from the UK side??
    Not only has Boris's stupidity in not red-listing India earlier resulted in "Freedom Day" being postponed in the UK he has pretty much guaranteed that nobody else in Europe is going to want to allow us in to their countries either.

    What is the f***g point of allowing vaccinated Brits to travel if we can't go anywhere?

    To add insult to injury he will turn round and tell us how unreasonable the EU for not letting Brits travel and the usual suspects will wave their union jacks and cheer him on. Boris needs us to be constantly "at war" with the rest of Europe to keep the troops fired up but it will not serve us well.
    This may arguably be true but let’s face it this is also France playing silly buggers. It makes a complete mockery of their previous policy requiring a negative test AND double vaccination if they don’t actually think this is sufficient to let people in. Especially when it’s pretty obvious that Delta is well seeded in the EU and closing borders to vaccinated U.K. citizens will make absolutely no difference.

    And it’s also short sighted. Any approach that aspires to exiting this and returning to normality has to trust in the vaccines. Otherwise there’s no realistic prospect of escape.

    I also wouldn’t be totally surprised if this is linked to growing pressure to remove the Euro2020 finals from Wembley.

    Well that and a continuous desire to play down the success of the U.K. vaccination programme.
    Of course France are not going to do us any favours. The reality is that post-Brexit we are going to remain at odds with all our close neighbours for some time particularly as Boris is going to constantly pick fights with them to keep the Mail & Telegraph readers and the red-wallers fired up.

    It's a consequence that we will just have to live with. I also believe most of the benefits of our undoubtedly successful vaccination programme are being squandered. Within a matter of months all of Europe will have vaccinated everyone that wishes to be vaccinated and any advantage we may have has will have vanished.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913

    I see that EE is bringing back roaming charges for travel in Europe. The Brexit dividend continues.

    On my last holiday in the EU I used just over 300GB in a fortnight.

    *Sob*
    Time to be less garrulous :smile:

    But £10 for 30 days is hardly crippling.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,545
    COVID summary

    Cases up massively (again), and deaths up somewhat

    Admissions have plateaued -

    image

    And from the England data we can see this is across all ages - 85+ is definitely down.

    image
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,694
    edited June 2021
    algarkirk said:

    Revelation about bears in woods next…

    In EU capitals, suspicion is growing that PM Boris Johnson signed the Withdrawal Agreement and the Northern Ireland Protocol simply to get elected and get Brexit over the line—then, create a fuss over the detailed provisions and try to get a better deal

    https://twitter.com/carolinegruyter/status/1407983413622099973?s=21

    This has been obvious for ages. The interesting question is whether it would have been possible to actually achieve Brexit, given what had already happened over Ireland, except by making an agreement which would have to be modified later.

    SFAICS, given the GFA, there is no possible deal which doesn't breach someone's integrity; the question is going to be whose.

    Control of the narrative will be important. Our approach I suppose will be some version of 'Is the EU really prepared to have a return to violence for the sake of a few perfectly wholesome sausages slipping over the border?'

    The only rules that will work are ones that establish a self-consistent legal situation but are then ignored.

    The EU doesn't seem to understand this yet, although some of the member states do when it suits.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756

    On topic, bring back the birch or the death penalty for antivaxxers.

    Either will do, they should not be allowed to hold the rest of society back.

    Didn’t see you as a racist.
    ??
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    rcs1000 said:

    NEW: Portugal suspends lifting of coronavirus restrictions as new cases continue to rise, fueled by the Delta variant

    Lisbon had already introduced a partial lockdown at weekends (so carefully calibrated to have no material effect other than annoy people).

    Europe is really running the risk of just pushing the problem into Q4.
    Given that the EU will be fully vaccinated by the end of August, why would the problem persist until Q4?
    Because I don’t believe that they will be “fully vaccinated”. I could well be wrong of course.
    They've narrowed the gap to about five weeks behind us (in terms of doses administered per 100 people), and their pace of vaccinations is still increasing.

    So, why not?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited June 2021

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    1. Substantial increase in cases foreseeable and already priced into the decisions
    2. Hospital numbers crawling upwards at a much slower rate than last time
    3. Percentage increase in deaths arguably misleading, since they're creeping up from a base of almost nothing
    4. Vaccinations continuing to work their way down the age groups, increase the proportion of those protected and disrupt chains of transmission
    5. Increasing political pressure on Government to desist from further stalling
    6. Significant medical and scientific opinion accumulating in favour of relaxation, as well as the usual loud shouting from the ISAGE prophets of doom
    7. Positive evidence from Bolton, Blackburn, Bedford and other places struck by Delta early on in the current wave

    In short, I won't believe that July 19th is going ahead until it actually happens, but there are some grounds for cautious optimism.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    Billings replaces injured Buttler. Willey in for Woakes.

    Big loss for England.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited June 2021

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    If we look again at Johnson's statement on the 14th June - https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-at-coronavirus-press-conference-14-june-2021 - I would particularly draw your attention to these bits:

    "By Monday 19th July we will aim to have double jabbed around two thirds of the adult population including everyone over 50, all the vulnerable, all the frontline health and care workers and everyone over 40 who received their first dose by mid-May....
    And we will bring forward our target to give every adult in this country a first dose by 19th July that is including young people over the age of 18..."


    Johnson explicitly linked the 19th July date with these milestones towards completion of the vaccination program, rather than reducing the number of cases, because, as he went on to say:

    "It is unmistakably clear the vaccines are working..."

    So, while I have often been very critical of Johnson, and wouldn't normally quote him approvingly, I think these quotes do give grounds for optimism that the 19th July date can be stuck to, provided that the vaccination program doesn't come to a halt.
    The grounds for optimism come from what happened in May and what happened in C&A.

    Southern Tory voters have f8cking had enough and are staying away or defecting in a swathe of leafy constituencies.

    That is what is moving the government, and its much more reliable than turning yourself into a pin cushion for charity.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913

    I see that EE is bringing back roaming charges for travel in Europe. The Brexit dividend continues.

    On my last holiday in the EU I used just over 300GB in a fortnight.

    *Sob*
    I won't ask what the bloody hell you were doing....nor why you didn't have any access to WiFi....and how you didn't get dinged against this being against fair use policy.

    The thing is for ages you have been already buy PAYG Sims for non-EU travel that gives loads of data for peanuts.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    MattW said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913

    I see that EE is bringing back roaming charges for travel in Europe. The Brexit dividend continues.

    On my last holiday in the EU I used just over 300GB in a fortnight.

    *Sob*
    Time to be less garrulous :smile:

    But £10 for 30 days is hardly crippling.
    For us working class it is a lot.

    Those of us on o2, it is 25GB free to be used in Europe then £3.50 per GB after that, so it would have cost me £962.50.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,054
    On the Microsoft issue my Windows upgraded overnight to something called the S version. When I tried to go to Steam today I was told it was an unverified App. So I had to go back to my earlier version to get access. Any way I can resolve this conflict?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    If we look again at Johnson's statement on the 14th June - https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-at-coronavirus-press-conference-14-june-2021 - I would particularly draw your attention to these bits:

    "By Monday 19th July we will aim to have double jabbed around two thirds of the adult population including everyone over 50, all the vulnerable, all the frontline health and care workers and everyone over 40 who received their first dose by mid-May....
    And we will bring forward our target to give every adult in this country a first dose by 19th July that is including young people over the age of 18..."


    Johnson explicitly linked the 19th July date with these milestones towards completion of the vaccination program, rather than reducing the number of cases, because, as he went on to say:

    "It is unmistakably clear the vaccines are working..."

    So, while I have often been very critical of Johnson, and wouldn't normally quote him approvingly, I think these quotes do give grounds for optimism that the 19th July date can be stuck to, provided that the vaccination program doesn't come to a halt.
    Ok thanks, that's cheered me up a fraction.

    I'd love to know what proportion of those new cases, hospitalisations and deaths have had a double vaccination >2 weeks prior to contracting covid.

    I assume that data is captured - does anyone know if it's published?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    If we look again at Johnson's statement on the 14th June - https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-at-coronavirus-press-conference-14-june-2021 - I would particularly draw your attention to these bits:

    "By Monday 19th July we will aim to have double jabbed around two thirds of the adult population including everyone over 50, all the vulnerable, all the frontline health and care workers and everyone over 40 who received their first dose by mid-May....
    And we will bring forward our target to give every adult in this country a first dose by 19th July that is including young people over the age of 18..."


    Johnson explicitly linked the 19th July date with these milestones towards completion of the vaccination program, rather than reducing the number of cases, because, as he went on to say:

    "It is unmistakably clear the vaccines are working..."

    So, while I have often been very critical of Johnson, and wouldn't normally quote him approvingly, I think these quotes do give grounds for optimism that the 19th July date can be stuck to, provided that the vaccination program doesn't come to a halt.
    Also, can you imagine the outcry if he announces in July 12th that the restrictions won’t be lifted, but no problem with the “pilot” capacity 140k British Grand Prix going ahead the same week? I know it’s outside but still...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,049
    kinabalu said:

    darkage said:

    another thing which I noticed is the amount of places that don't accept cash anymore. I found myself in central london with no cards on me and only cash, I was turned away from literally all of the outlets in charing cross station, the only place I could buy dinner from was marks and spencer.

    I went in to Itsu and just well how the fuck am I going to eat anything if no one accepts cash and the woman behind the counter just shrugged.

    The pandemic has killed my cash habit and I don't think it's coming back. It's been over 15 months now since I last used.
    I try to keep some smash for beggars who are sadly always with us.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    edited June 2021

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913

    I see that EE is bringing back roaming charges for travel in Europe. The Brexit dividend continues.

    On my last holiday in the EU I used just over 300GB in a fortnight.

    *Sob*
    I won't ask what the bloody hell you were doing....nor why you didn't have any access to WiFi....
    See my post at 6.11pm for an explanation.

    Edit - I also hotspotted for my girlfriend.

    Edit II - Hotspotted isn't a euphemism you perverts.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,390

    Build a wall and make them pay for it....
    That was tried before and did not go down well.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230
    edited June 2021

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    Cases are localised and hospitalisations are largely in the unvaccinated. All adults can now have vaccine (though I accept that many will have 2nd jab to come, they will have some protection from 1st jab).

    The cases/hospitalisations/deaths were predicted to rise through road map stages, especially the 17 May relaxations.

    So, this was always going to be the case. Likewise, it was also always going to be the case that those seeking to prolong restrictions would try to use this to scare the government into deviating from the road map. They have succeeded once - they mustn't be allowed to again.

    We have run out of money.

    No justification for further withdrawing of personal liberties. Full stop.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021

    MattW said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913

    I see that EE is bringing back roaming charges for travel in Europe. The Brexit dividend continues.

    On my last holiday in the EU I used just over 300GB in a fortnight.

    *Sob*
    Time to be less garrulous :smile:

    But £10 for 30 days is hardly crippling.
    For us working class it is a lot.

    Those of us on o2, it is 25GB free to be used in Europe then £3.50 per GB after that, so it would have cost me £962.50.
    No it wouldn't. There is still a government upper limit cap on what they can charge for oversea data use. I think its £45.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,545

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    If we look again at Johnson's statement on the 14th June - https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-at-coronavirus-press-conference-14-june-2021 - I would particularly draw your attention to these bits:

    "By Monday 19th July we will aim to have double jabbed around two thirds of the adult population including everyone over 50, all the vulnerable, all the frontline health and care workers and everyone over 40 who received their first dose by mid-May....
    And we will bring forward our target to give every adult in this country a first dose by 19th July that is including young people over the age of 18..."


    Johnson explicitly linked the 19th July date with these milestones towards completion of the vaccination program, rather than reducing the number of cases, because, as he went on to say:

    "It is unmistakably clear the vaccines are working..."

    So, while I have often been very critical of Johnson, and wouldn't normally quote him approvingly, I think these quotes do give grounds for optimism that the 19th July date can be stuck to, provided that the vaccination program doesn't come to a halt.
    Ok thanks, that's cheered me up a fraction.

    I'd love to know what proportion of those new cases, hospitalisations and deaths have had a double vaccination >2 weeks prior to contracting covid.

    I assume that data is captured - does anyone know if it's published?
    It is being captured - but not being published in the daily data from PHE.

    Various papers are being written on it and released at intervals....
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,090

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913

    I see that EE is bringing back roaming charges for travel in Europe. The Brexit dividend continues.

    On my last holiday in the EU I used just over 300GB in a fortnight.

    *Sob*
    Also Vodafone etc are imposing "fair use" which means I will now switch off my GB-NI mobile and when I can get back I will cancel my contract. They wilfully mislead me by saying that if I reset my contract then fair use limits woiuld be raised, I did, they were not. So they will get no more business from me at all and I will switch to my EU contract.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768

    On topic, bring back the birch or the death penalty for antivaxxers.

    Either will do, they should not be allowed to hold the rest of society back.

    Didn’t see you as a racist.
    Absolutely, my house is adorned with portraits of Nick Griffin and Enoch Powell.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271

    On topic, bring back the birch or the death penalty for antivaxxers.

    Either will do, they should not be allowed to hold the rest of society back.

    Didn’t see you as a racist.
    Absolutely, my house is adorned with portraits of Nick Griffin and Enoch Powell.
    Have you been branded an Islamophobe before?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,545
    alex_ said:

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    If we look again at Johnson's statement on the 14th June - https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-at-coronavirus-press-conference-14-june-2021 - I would particularly draw your attention to these bits:

    "By Monday 19th July we will aim to have double jabbed around two thirds of the adult population including everyone over 50, all the vulnerable, all the frontline health and care workers and everyone over 40 who received their first dose by mid-May....
    And we will bring forward our target to give every adult in this country a first dose by 19th July that is including young people over the age of 18..."


    Johnson explicitly linked the 19th July date with these milestones towards completion of the vaccination program, rather than reducing the number of cases, because, as he went on to say:

    "It is unmistakably clear the vaccines are working..."

    So, while I have often been very critical of Johnson, and wouldn't normally quote him approvingly, I think these quotes do give grounds for optimism that the 19th July date can be stuck to, provided that the vaccination program doesn't come to a halt.
    Also, can you imagine the outcry if he announces in July 12th that the restrictions won’t be lifted, but no problem with the “pilot” capacity 140k British Grand Prix going ahead the same week? I know it’s outside but still...
    In about 18 days time we will hit 90% 1st doses for adults in the UK - if it doesn't tail off before then. Given that Wales is crawling up to 90% as we speak, this is probably close to the maximum we are going to get....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,183
    edited June 2021
    Boo!

    https://twitter.com/unit_football/status/1408020325389017090

    Football Intelligence Unit
    @unit_football
    No away fans in the Premier League until at least Christmas
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756
    Stocky said:

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    Cases are localised and hospitalisations are largely in the unvaccinated. All adults can now have vaccine (though I accept that many will have 2nd jab to come, they will have some protection from 1st jab).

    The cases/hospitalisations/deaths were predicted to rise through road map stages, especially the 17 May relaxations.

    So, this was always going to be the case. Likewise, it was also always going to be the case that those seeking to prolong restrictions would try to use this to scare the government into deviating from the road map. They have succeeded once - they mustn't be allowed to again.

    We have run out of money.

    No justification for further withdrawing of personal liberties. Full stop.
    It's a view.

    What evidence can you offer for your assertion that "We have run out of money"?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Latest rates for Greater Manchester areas Scot Gov has banned travel to/from

    * Manchester 378 (cases per 100k people over 7 days)
    * Salford 335
    * Bolton 251

    Latest rates for worst-hit Scottish councils (no travel restrictions)

    * East Lothian 391
    * Dundee 381
    * Edinburgh 336


    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1408111801598947330?s=20
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    kinabalu said:

    darkage said:

    another thing which I noticed is the amount of places that don't accept cash anymore. I found myself in central london with no cards on me and only cash, I was turned away from literally all of the outlets in charing cross station, the only place I could buy dinner from was marks and spencer.

    I went in to Itsu and just well how the fuck am I going to eat anything if no one accepts cash and the woman behind the counter just shrugged.

    The pandemic has killed my cash habit and I don't think it's coming back. It's been over 15 months now since I last used.
    yeah but what happens if you lose your cards (as I did). What then? Also making payment by card compulsory is a backdoor to permanent surveillance, it is a major encroachment in to freedom.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Boo!

    https://twitter.com/unit_football/status/1408020325389017090

    Football Intelligence Unit
    @unit_football
    No away fans in the Premier League until at least Christmas

    I don't get that. I thought freedom day was removal of basically all restrictions?

    If we are "fully vaccinated", we are going to have 140,000 at a Grand Prix, we are going to have 60,000 are Wembley....but we can't have a few 1000 away fans?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230

    Stocky said:

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    Cases are localised and hospitalisations are largely in the unvaccinated. All adults can now have vaccine (though I accept that many will have 2nd jab to come, they will have some protection from 1st jab).

    The cases/hospitalisations/deaths were predicted to rise through road map stages, especially the 17 May relaxations.

    So, this was always going to be the case. Likewise, it was also always going to be the case that those seeking to prolong restrictions would try to use this to scare the government into deviating from the road map. They have succeeded once - they mustn't be allowed to again.

    We have run out of money.

    No justification for further withdrawing of personal liberties. Full stop.
    It's a view.

    What evidence can you offer for your assertion that "We have run out of money"?
    Oh, I see. You're happy for us to keep printing money. Will you be happy for tax rates and spending in the future to reflect this or will be calling this "Tory Austerity"?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768

    On topic, bring back the birch or the death penalty for antivaxxers.

    Either will do, they should not be allowed to hold the rest of society back.

    Didn’t see you as a racist.
    Absolutely, my house is adorned with portraits of Nick Griffin and Enoch Powell.
    Have you been branded an Islamophobe before?
    Many many times, once on here when I said I would be deeply uncomfortable with having Muslim neighbours.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756
    darkage said:

    kinabalu said:

    darkage said:

    another thing which I noticed is the amount of places that don't accept cash anymore. I found myself in central london with no cards on me and only cash, I was turned away from literally all of the outlets in charing cross station, the only place I could buy dinner from was marks and spencer.

    I went in to Itsu and just well how the fuck am I going to eat anything if no one accepts cash and the woman behind the counter just shrugged.

    The pandemic has killed my cash habit and I don't think it's coming back. It's been over 15 months now since I last used.
    yeah but what happens if you lose your cards (as I did). What then? Also making payment by card compulsory is a backdoor to permanent surveillance, it is a major encroachment in to freedom.
    What happens if you lose your cash?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Stocky said:

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    Cases are localised and hospitalisations are largely in the unvaccinated. All adults can now have vaccine (though I accept that many will have 2nd jab to come, they will have some protection from 1st jab).

    The cases/hospitalisations/deaths were predicted to rise through road map stages, especially the 17 May relaxations.

    So, this was always going to be the case. Likewise, it was also always going to be the case that those seeking to prolong restrictions would try to use this to scare the government into deviating from road map. They have succeeded once - they mustn't be allowed to again.

    We have run out of money.

    No justification for further withdrawing of personal liberties. Full stop.
    Johnson's assorted idiots are wondering how they can avoid hitting already disgruntled tories for six with Southern constituency losing tax increases later this year and next.

    Growth is the only solution. Not much of a solution but the only one. And the only way to get growth is reopen.

    Save the NHS? if it comes to me losing my seat, f8ck the NHS.

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    tlg86 said:

    Boo!

    https://twitter.com/unit_football/status/1408020325389017090

    Football Intelligence Unit
    @unit_football
    No away fans in the Premier League until at least Christmas

    It’s an anti Man Utd conspiracy
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,756

    Latest rates for Greater Manchester areas Scot Gov has banned travel to/from

    * Manchester 378 (cases per 100k people over 7 days)
    * Salford 335
    * Bolton 251

    Latest rates for worst-hit Scottish councils (no travel restrictions)

    * East Lothian 391
    * Dundee 381
    * Edinburgh 336


    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1408111801598947330?s=20


    SNP trying to protect Manchester?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021

    On topic, bring back the birch or the death penalty for antivaxxers.

    Either will do, they should not be allowed to hold the rest of society back.

    Didn’t see you as a racist.
    Absolutely, my house is adorned with portraits of Nick Griffin and Enoch Powell.
    Have you been branded an Islamophobe before?
    Many many times, once on here when I said I would be deeply uncomfortable with having Muslim neighbours.
    Bit harsh to talk about your folks that way though....
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Stocky said:

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    Cases are localised and hospitalisations are largely in the unvaccinated. All adults can now have vaccine (though I accept that many will have 2nd jab to come, they will have some protection from 1st jab).

    The cases/hospitalisations/deaths were predicted to rise through road map stages, especially the 17 May relaxations.

    So, this was always going to be the case. Likewise, it was also always going to be the case that those seeking to prolong restrictions would try to use this to scare the government into deviating from the road map. They have succeeded once - they mustn't be allowed to again.

    We have run out of money.

    No justification for further withdrawing of personal liberties. Full stop.
    It's a view.

    What evidence can you offer for your assertion that "We have run out of money"?
    What a dumb question.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,010

    Age related data

    image
    image

    Apparently we can get weekly data from PHE broken down better for the younger age groups.
    Could be better, but is at least indicative:
    image
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,390

    FWIW i think Nicola's scrap with Andy Burnham was quite a considerable misstep by her. The Anglophobia just too blatant. Might fire up the base but a big turn-off for everyone else.
    Two arses with ideas above their stations, a pair of useless fannies.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    If we look again at Johnson's statement on the 14th June - https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-at-coronavirus-press-conference-14-june-2021 - I would particularly draw your attention to these bits:

    "By Monday 19th July we will aim to have double jabbed around two thirds of the adult population including everyone over 50, all the vulnerable, all the frontline health and care workers and everyone over 40 who received their first dose by mid-May....
    And we will bring forward our target to give every adult in this country a first dose by 19th July that is including young people over the age of 18..."


    Johnson explicitly linked the 19th July date with these milestones towards completion of the vaccination program, rather than reducing the number of cases, because, as he went on to say:

    "It is unmistakably clear the vaccines are working..."

    So, while I have often been very critical of Johnson, and wouldn't normally quote him approvingly, I think these quotes do give grounds for optimism that the 19th July date can be stuck to, provided that the vaccination program doesn't come to a halt.
    Also, can you imagine the outcry if he announces in July 12th that the restrictions won’t be lifted, but no problem with the “pilot” capacity 140k British Grand Prix going ahead the same week? I know it’s outside but still...
    In about 18 days time we will hit 90% 1st doses for adults in the UK - if it doesn't tail off before then. Given that Wales is crawling up to 90% as we speak, this is probably close to the maximum we are going to get....
    Exactly. Once you reach maximum vaccination, what are restrictions supposed to achieve? Unless intended to be permanent.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768

    On topic, bring back the birch or the death penalty for antivaxxers.

    Either will do, they should not be allowed to hold the rest of society back.

    Didn’t see you as a racist.
    Absolutely, my house is adorned with portraits of Nick Griffin and Enoch Powell.
    Have you been branded an Islamophobe before?
    Many many times, once on here when I said I would be deeply uncomfortable with having Muslim neighbours.
    Bit harsh to talk about your folks that way though....
    They aren't my neighbours, landlords/servants depending on your POV.

    But seriously, I still would be deeply uncomfortable with having Muslims as neighbours.

    As you know I'm a very good Muslim and they'd feel bad because they weren't as pious as me.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    Out of more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. in May, only 150 were among people who were fully vaccinated

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1408105682897879052?s=20

    And how many of that 150 were incredibly old and died with COVID / had a whole load of other medical complications?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Latest rates for Greater Manchester areas Scot Gov has banned travel to/from

    * Manchester 378 (cases per 100k people over 7 days)
    * Salford 335
    * Bolton 251

    Latest rates for worst-hit Scottish councils (no travel restrictions)

    * East Lothian 391
    * Dundee 381
    * Edinburgh 336


    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1408111801598947330?s=20

    And yet, no signs of howling lunatics in hazmat suits patrolling the border at Berwick, screaming at the Scots to go home. Fancy that.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230
    edited June 2021

    Stocky said:

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    Cases are localised and hospitalisations are largely in the unvaccinated. All adults can now have vaccine (though I accept that many will have 2nd jab to come, they will have some protection from 1st jab).

    The cases/hospitalisations/deaths were predicted to rise through road map stages, especially the 17 May relaxations.

    So, this was always going to be the case. Likewise, it was also always going to be the case that those seeking to prolong restrictions would try to use this to scare the government into deviating from road map. They have succeeded once - they mustn't be allowed to again.

    We have run out of money.

    No justification for further withdrawing of personal liberties. Full stop.
    Johnson's assorted idiots are wondering how they can avoid hitting already disgruntled tories for six with Southern constituency losing tax increases later this year and next.

    Growth is the only solution. Not much of a solution but the only one. And the only way to get growth is reopen.

    Save the NHS? if it comes to me losing my seat, f8ck the NHS.

    At bottom, when you justify the prolonging of lockdowns because "we are nearly there because we have the vaccine silver bullet", and then the vaccines are better than expected and taken up so well and speedily, what do you have left to prolong this abomination any further other than ignorant public opinion feeding populism allied to people who have vested interests all over the place?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,614

    Feeling a bit depressed by stats today - can someone help me?

    UK 7 day cases up by 44%, deaths up by 32%, hospitalisations up by 17%. On what basis does anyone expect the lockdown restrictions to ease in a few weeks time? ☹️

    If we look again at Johnson's statement on the 14th June - https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-at-coronavirus-press-conference-14-june-2021 - I would particularly draw your attention to these bits:

    "By Monday 19th July we will aim to have double jabbed around two thirds of the adult population including everyone over 50, all the vulnerable, all the frontline health and care workers and everyone over 40 who received their first dose by mid-May....
    And we will bring forward our target to give every adult in this country a first dose by 19th July that is including young people over the age of 18..."


    Johnson explicitly linked the 19th July date with these milestones towards completion of the vaccination program, rather than reducing the number of cases, because, as he went on to say:

    "It is unmistakably clear the vaccines are working..."

    So, while I have often been very critical of Johnson, and wouldn't normally quote him approvingly, I think these quotes do give grounds for optimism that the 19th July date can be stuck to, provided that the vaccination program doesn't come to a halt.
    The grounds for optimism come from what happened in May and what happened in C&A.

    Southern Tory voters have f8cking had enough and are staying away or defecting in a swathe of leafy constituencies.

    That is what is moving the government, and its much more reliable than turning yourself into a pin cushion for charity.
    I see you've found a way to reconcile yourself with the reality that vaccines are bringing this pandemic to an end, without having to change your mind about anything. Well done.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,543
    kinabalu said:

    Striking story from WWII:

    A mutiny began in the U.S. Army #OTD 1943 in Bamber Bridge, Lancs after U.S. Military Police attempted to arrest black soldiers from the 1511th Quartermaster Truck Regiment. When commanders demanded a colour bar in the town, pubs in the village posted “Black Troops Only” signs.

    https://twitter.com/EnglishRadical/status/1407960455876857857?s=20

    Bet they were accused of virtue signalling.
    Remarkable story and something to be proud of.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    tlg86 said:

    Boo!

    https://twitter.com/unit_football/status/1408020325389017090

    Football Intelligence Unit
    @unit_football
    No away fans in the Premier League until at least Christmas

    I don't get that. I thought freedom day was removal of basically all restrictions?

    If we are "fully vaccinated", we are going to have 140,000 at a Grand Prix, we are going to have 60,000 are Wembley....but we can't have a few 1000 away fans?
    This might not be Governmental diktat though. Could be the Premier League itself playing silly buggers.

    I fully anticipate being stuck with Covid measures at work for some considerable period of time after July 19th, even if they are all scrapped in wider society. Some businesses are more reluctant to let go of the security blanket than others.
This discussion has been closed.