Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Undefined discussion subject.

24567

Comments

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,017
    BigRich said:

    Carnyx said:

    BigRich said:

    I've got a holiday in the Orkney islands planed, for 4 July will I still be able to go? or will they start to lockdown again?

    P.S. any top tips for things to see in the Orkney islands?
    Nava/mil history - Lyness base, maybe a boat tour with camera on a string for the sunken German fleet if that is up and running, some stuff in Stromness Museum. Also Churchill barriers.
    Mediaeval - Kirkwall cathedral, the two palaces, Stromness town
    Archaeological - wall to wall but specials include the Maes Howe/Borgar/Stenness complex in central Mainland. Have a look at the Historic Scotland website for some other ideas of sites. Tomn of the Eagles on South Ronaldsay is I think privately owned.
    Scenic - Yesnaby, Kitchener Monument, walk around coast from Stromness town round to Breckness, for instance
    Cultural - two farmhouse longhouse museums in Mainland when I last went

    The abvoe is the Mainland plus cuaseway connexted islands plus Hoy (ferry). Of the smaller nothern islands, I like Westray very much - castle, scenic Noss Head for birdies, general ambience, golf course (not exactly the R&A, no idea if still there - Papa Westray is the one with the v. ancient houses.

    Food etc - try bere bannocks, and the local whisky, Highland Park being one of my favourite breweries, Scapa is also worth a taste if available

    Tourist Info office on Kirkwall.Stromness definitely worth talkign to. When I was there there was a ghood bookshop[ in Stromness with lots of local stuff.

    May have to save it for another year, mind.
    Thanks, If we are still allowed this will be an interesting visit :)
    Erratum: I was muddling Noss and Noup Heads - this is the one you might want

    https://www.rspb.org.uk/reserves-and-events/reserves-a-z/noup-cliffs/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    The horror!
    The mask slips.....as we know to EU bods, such an arrangement just isn't sufficient.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,407

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency”


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    In practice, Hungary can't be expelled, I should imagine.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    https://twitter.com/RP131/status/1408087279365730304/photo/1

    Good context for case numbers - growth driven by new areas moving out of the pack underneath the line, but an increasing number of the bubbles which were already at high case levels are moving above the line (declining numbers).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    Sean_F said:

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency”


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    In practice, Hungary can't be expelled, I should imagine.
    Especially as the likes of Poland will stand up for Hungary.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,303

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If Galloway beats Keith (Which I think is well possible) is he done for ?

    100% will be a leadership challenge. Labour tearing chunks out of each other will be another reminder why they shouldn't be in power. Burnham might flirt with having a go saying he has to think about the Nation as a whole before he runs away from his Manchester Mayoral job. Angela Rayner might well throw her hat in the ring too, she has no reason for loyalty to Sir Keith.
    I have no particular desire to see a Labour government, but Tories should stop gloating and being so complacent. They have a clown for a leader, and they just lost one of their safest seats to the Libs. Sir "Keith" as you strangely like to refer to him as, may well show resilience and have the last laugh. Stranger things have happened. A week is a long time...etc.
    I'd like to see a decent electable opposition but we are where we are. I'm sure we can all find plenty of gloating posts from you 12 months ago about how the very 'forensic' Sir Keith would make mincemeat out of the PM. I'm still waiting for that to materialise.

    Chesham & Amersham is a wake up call for Boris but if he wins Batley & Spen to go with Hartlepool it's an incredible return for any PM 2 years in and any party 11 years in - of that there is little doubt. But Batley is very much still up for grabs IMO.
    No gloating posts from me I am afraid. I am a trad right of centre Tory, which is why I dislike Johnson so much. However, I think Starmer has made mincemeat out of Johnson at PMQs, but then so would a person from a sixth form debating team (probably the reserve team) . Johnson is shit, except, it would seem, at convincing the more gullible that he is a leader. That last bit he appears good at, along with bedding gullible women. Maybe there is a similarity.
    Not even that, really. The story of 2020 was a gradual but relentless shift of voters from the blue to the red column. And given the time sequence, I think we can be confident that was a real effect, rather than random polling noise.

    Then the vaccines happened, and the stone SKS had been rolling up the hill rolled straight back down again. Not much to do with Bozza, but he's in the big chair and gets the credit.

    So the questions are:
    1 Which is more representative- Dame Bingham's brilliance at vaccine procurement, or almost everything else the government does?
    2 How long can the PM continue to use vaccination as his excuse not to talk about anything else?
    3 Following the success of War on France to secure the May elections, who's next?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    82.9% of adults first vaccinated now.

    Since I highly doubt we'll reach 90%, that's an incredible achievement. Must be extremely close to being finished now.

    I'm curious what percentage of adults other nations that have peaked like Israel or USA have achieved?

    Wales are at 89.0% today and still jabbing 3,000+ a day (0.1% ish of adults).

    By the back of an envelope calc, 200,000 ish new jabs a day would be 4,200,000 in 3 weeks, which will take us to about 90% of adults. but will probably attenuate down as we get near the very end.

    I think most places are giving % of total population so hard to compare, but its looking good.

    For wat its worth, there may be lots of reasons why people are not getting vaccinated.

    But I suspect/feel for many the underlying reason, is not the risk of autism, cost or many of the other things mentioned above. I think for some at least its the loss of control: we have all had no chose in now living with COVID, we have had no chose in being locked down, no or little chose in how much risk we are able to take, its all been imposed down on us, and I for one fed up, I think other are too, and one of the few ways to push back and say 'I'm not playing this any more' is to say stick your bloody vaccine up you XXX!

    One way to help overcome this IMHO, would be to offer those who have sead no to the Vaccine so for, 'you can have chose which vaccine you would like'

    Offer them as many as we could, Physa, Moderna, AZ, but also get some of Jonson and Jonson, the Russian and maybe Chinses ones, and if possible get a few of those others new ones.

    Yes I know some of theses are less effective, but all are at lest slightly better than non, and I suspect that by giving them a chose, you will find a promotion will come forward, some may have a phobia about needles and there for the J and J, which only requires one jab, others like Corbyn may love Russia so much they take that. Others may just apricate the that they get to chose and go for Physa, or Morderna.

    Don't know how effective this might be overall, but worth a go.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    Sean_F said:

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency”


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    In practice, Hungary can't be expelled, I should imagine.
    One of the only reasons I could have been persuaded to support leaving the EU in 2016 was its failure to act over Hungary. Things have got worse.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Rudy Giuliani's law license has been suspended.

    A disciplinary body says he made "demonstrably false and misleading statements to courts, lawmakers and the public at large in his capacity as lawyer for former President Donald J. Trump."

    http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/ad1/calendar/List_Word/2021/06_Jun/24/PDF/Matter of Giuliani (2021-00506) PC.pdf

    :lol:

    Excellent news.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,281
    BigRich said:

    I've got a holiday in the Orkney islands planed, for 4 July will I still be able to go? or will they start to lockdown again?

    P.S. any top tips for things to see in the Orkney islands?
    Kitchener memorial. Not many people remember that, in the middle of WW1, we lost our Sec of State for War to enemy action.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    BigRich said:

    I've got a holiday in the Orkney islands planed, for 4 July will I still be able to go? or will they start to lockdown again?

    P.S. any top tips for things to see in the Orkney islands?
    Nava/mil history - Lyness base, maybe a boat tour with camera on a string for the sunken German fleet if that is up and running, some stuff in Stromness Museum. Also Churchill barriers.
    Mediaeval - Kirkwall cathedral, the two palaces, Stromness town
    Archaeological - wall to wall but specials include the Maes Howe/Borgar/Stenness complex in central Mainland. Have a look at the Historic Scotland website for some other ideas of sites. Tomn of the Eagles on South Ronaldsay is I think privately owned.
    Scenic - Yesnaby, Kitchener Monument, walk around coast from Stromness town round to Breckness, for instance
    Cultural - two farmhouse longhouse museums in Mainland when I last went

    The abvoe is the Mainland plus cuaseway connexted islands plus Hoy (ferry). Of the smaller nothern islands, I like Westray very much - castle, scenic Noss Head for birdies, general ambience, golf course (not exactly the R&A, no idea if still there - Papa Westray is the one with the v. ancient houses.

    Food etc - try bere bannocks, and the local whisky, Highland Park being one of my favourite breweries, Scapa is also worth a taste if available

    Tourist Info office on Kirkwall.Stromness definitely worth talkign to. When I was there there was a ghood bookshop[ in Stromness with lots of local stuff.

    May have to save it for another year, mind.
    Orkney is wonderful. I was particularly struck by Maes Howe with its Viking graffiti. But the whole place is tremendous. Carnyx covers most of the "must sees" but I would add the Italian chapel - a Nissen hut turned into a church by Italian POWs.
    I'd forgotten about that. But that combines nicely with a trip to see the Churchill Barriers (which the Italians were building, as it happens).
    Based on a recent trip to Orkney my main advice is get a car. The usual bus tours aren't running because of Covid. Cycling isn't great due to wind. You have to book the inter island ferries a day in advance and if you want to go to the archaeological sites, you need to book a timeslot. It is a wonderful place - could easily do 3 weeks here, it is like a small scandinavian country, which of course it once was.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,061

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    Is that a cricket team?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    What’s happened at the BBC and the Met police shows the perils of groupthink

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/24/bbc-met-police-perils-groupthink

    Thanks for sharing. Groupthink is a fascinating psychological phenomena from a team dynamic perspective. It is particularly dangerous when conformity of thinking is combined with weak leadership. It is particularly worrying for our political parties and system of government.

    The antidote to groupthink (paradoxically for wokists and , anti-woke warriors alike) is genuine diversity of thought and strong, good quality leadership that is able to recognise groupthink and challenge it. Our party system seems to be moving in the opposite direction.

    Don't hold your breath folks!
    I completely agree with you Nigel.

    Some people are just unwilling to countenance those who have sincerely held differing opinions to them.

    Its not healthy by any means. Only through intellectual challenge and free thought do bad ideas get identified and dismissed, otherwise they ossify into shibboleths.
    I listened to an interesting interview with Big Dom's favourite "rationalist" philosopher the other week. She made a really striking point. In her field, she stated the convention is that every argument somebody makes is treated as coming from a good place, with honest intensions and presumed to have merit and thus you should start your discussion / argument from that assumption. And that both parties are willing to discuss both sides openly, with the ultimate desire to find the best position.

    And the interviewer said, but what if somebody is a bad faith actor. And she sighed and said, well it falls down....and does that happen...sigh, when I started no, not much, now, yes....
    It really, really annoys me when people doubt others' good faith.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    I thought they'd said Windows 10 would be the last version? And it'd be just updates from there?

    The general rule with Windows is that every other version is good, every other one is crap. So Windows 11 is scheduled to be the shit one.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    darkage said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    BigRich said:

    I've got a holiday in the Orkney islands planed, for 4 July will I still be able to go? or will they start to lockdown again?

    P.S. any top tips for things to see in the Orkney islands?
    Nava/mil history - Lyness base, maybe a boat tour with camera on a string for the sunken German fleet if that is up and running, some stuff in Stromness Museum. Also Churchill barriers.
    Mediaeval - Kirkwall cathedral, the two palaces, Stromness town
    Archaeological - wall to wall but specials include the Maes Howe/Borgar/Stenness complex in central Mainland. Have a look at the Historic Scotland website for some other ideas of sites. Tomn of the Eagles on South Ronaldsay is I think privately owned.
    Scenic - Yesnaby, Kitchener Monument, walk around coast from Stromness town round to Breckness, for instance
    Cultural - two farmhouse longhouse museums in Mainland when I last went

    The abvoe is the Mainland plus cuaseway connexted islands plus Hoy (ferry). Of the smaller nothern islands, I like Westray very much - castle, scenic Noss Head for birdies, general ambience, golf course (not exactly the R&A, no idea if still there - Papa Westray is the one with the v. ancient houses.

    Food etc - try bere bannocks, and the local whisky, Highland Park being one of my favourite breweries, Scapa is also worth a taste if available

    Tourist Info office on Kirkwall.Stromness definitely worth talkign to. When I was there there was a ghood bookshop[ in Stromness with lots of local stuff.

    May have to save it for another year, mind.
    Orkney is wonderful. I was particularly struck by Maes Howe with its Viking graffiti. But the whole place is tremendous. Carnyx covers most of the "must sees" but I would add the Italian chapel - a Nissen hut turned into a church by Italian POWs.
    I'd forgotten about that. But that combines nicely with a trip to see the Churchill Barriers (which the Italians were building, as it happens).
    Based on a recent trip to Orkney my main advice is get a car. The usual bus tours aren't running because of Covid. Cycling isn't great due to wind. You have to book the inter island ferries a day in advance and if you want to go to the archaeological sites, you need to book a timeslot. It is a wonderful place - could easily do 3 weeks here, it is like a small scandinavian country, which of course it once was.
    Thanks, yes we are driving up, and taking the car ferry, visiting a few friends and relatives on the way up (But not in Manchester!!!). Didn't know you had to book time slots so I will be doing that soon, and thanks fall all the suggestions, PB is great for lots of things, but its ability to suggest holiday activates is extra bonuses. :)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,062
    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/RP131/status/1408087279365730304/photo/1

    Good context for case numbers - growth driven by new areas moving out of the pack underneath the line, but an increasing number of the bubbles which were already at high case levels are moving above the line (declining numbers).

    I suppose you could say that this pandemic has always been the aggregation of lots of little local epidemics, but it's a point that is often forgotten. More so in the UK (except the devolved administrations) where we have a much more centralised narrative, identity and media than say the US which really is a place with 50 separate epidemics each with its own dynamics.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    Covid Fact Check UK
    @fact_covid
    Latest
    @PHE_uk
    info on antibody seropositivity:

    70-84s: 98.8% (was 98.3%)
    60-69s: 98.6% (was 98.4%)
    50-59: 98.5% (was 98.3%)
    40-49: 93.3% (was 90.0%)
    30-39: 68.0% (was 57.5%)
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,165
    Busy yesterday choosing tiles for the new house we are building. After some

    NEW: Portugal suspends lifting of coronavirus restrictions as new cases continue to rise, fueled by the Delta variant

    I think Spain might be on the turn with infections. These are today's Andalucian data. I live in Almeria! It has 3 health districts. In mine there were just 6 new cases today. Currently there are no signs of any upswing at all. I'm due my second jab in 3 weeks! :0


  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,318

    tlg86 said:

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    The horror!
    The mask slips.....as we know to EU bods, such an arrangement just isn't sufficient.
    ? I don't understand your point?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    tlg86 said:

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    The horror!
    The mask slips.....as we know to EU bods, such an arrangement just isn't sufficient.
    No mask. The EU bods never intended for the EU to be that.

    It was only British politicians and Remainers who were adamant the EU was just a trade bloc etc despite Europeans being keen for that not to be what it was.

    It's why Britain was in hindsight fundamentally unsuitable for Europe. All the talk of two speeds etc never worked, either people should have got on board with the full project or got off the train.

    We eventually did the right thing and I hope the Dutch etc can now do the right thing for them without us in their way. Good luck to them. But yes the Hungarians should be expelled, but I don't think they can be. No idea how they fix that mess.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,281

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    I thought they'd said Windows 10 would be the last version? And it'd be just updates from there?

    The general rule with Windows is that every other version is good, every other one is crap. So Windows 11 is scheduled to be the shit one.
    You can imagine how crap Windows 95 was.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    I thought they'd said Windows 10 would be the last version? And it'd be just updates from there?

    The general rule with Windows is that every other version is good, every other one is crap. So Windows 11 is scheduled to be the shit one.
    I don't know if that was marketing spin that got out of control. Even at the time there seemed to be contradictory statements from different Microsoft people.

    It looks like Windows 11 has some nice additions e.g. run Android apps natively.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,807

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    I thought they'd said Windows 10 would be the last version? And it'd be just updates from there?

    The general rule with Windows is that every other version is good, every other one is crap. So Windows 11 is scheduled to be the shit one.
    Windows 3 is far more memorable than 2 or 4. 7 was really good.

    I think your Star Trek brain is taking control.

    (May be a gap with 4-6)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,968

    Covid Fact Check UK
    @fact_covid
    Latest
    @PHE_uk
    info on antibody seropositivity:

    70-84s: 98.8% (was 98.3%)
    60-69s: 98.6% (was 98.4%)
    50-59: 98.5% (was 98.3%)
    40-49: 93.3% (was 90.0%)
    30-39: 68.0% (was 57.5%)

    98.8% is nuts.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021
    Windows 11 will be a free update for previous Windows users, but it does require to be online for Home versions and will require a Microsoft account when installing/upgrading your PC or tablet.

    YUCK.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,165
    Omnium said:

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    I thought they'd said Windows 10 would be the last version? And it'd be just updates from there?

    The general rule with Windows is that every other version is good, every other one is crap. So Windows 11 is scheduled to be the shit one.
    Windows 3 is far more memorable than 2 or 4. 7 was really good.

    I think your Star Trek brain is taking control.

    (May be a gap with 4-6)
    I remember one called Vista - I had no view on it :0
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,318
    felix said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If Galloway beats Keith (Which I think is well possible) is he done for ?

    100% will be a leadership challenge. Labour tearing chunks out of each other will be another reminder why they shouldn't be in power. Burnham might flirt with having a go saying he has to think about the Nation as a whole before he runs away from his Manchester Mayoral job. Angela Rayner might well throw her hat in the ring too, she has no reason for loyalty to Sir Keith.
    I have no particular desire to see a Labour government, but Tories should stop gloating and being so complacent. They have a clown for a leader, and they just lost one of their safest seats to the Libs. Sir "Keith" as you strangely like to refer to him as, may well show resilience and have the last laugh. Stranger things have happened. A week is a long time...etc.
    I'd like to see a decent electable opposition but we are where we are. I'm sure we can all find plenty of gloating posts from you 12 months ago about how the very 'forensic' Sir Keith would make mincemeat out of the PM. I'm still waiting for that to materialise.

    Chesham & Amersham is a wake up call for Boris but if he wins Batley & Spen to go with Hartlepool it's an incredible return for any PM 2 years in and any party 11 years in - of that there is little doubt. But Batley is very much still up for grabs IMO.
    No gloating posts from me I am afraid. I am a trad right of centre Tory, which is why I dislike Johnson so much. However, I think Starmer has made mincemeat out of Johnson at PMQs, but then so would a person from a sixth form debating team (probably the reserve team) . Johnson is shit, except, it would seem, at convincing the more gullible that he is a leader. That last bit he appears good at, along with bedding gullible women. Maybe there is a similarity.
    I am sure the millions of 'gullible ' Conservative voters are aghast at losing your good opinion. I know I am absolutely bereft.
    Thanks @felix, I had heard that was the case. I have heard they felt my pain, and indeed reflected it in a recent by-election due to my persuasive posting on PB.

    seriously though, not all Conservative voters are gullible. At the last GE they had a choice between dumb and dumber and they chose "dumb". Conservative Party members on the other hand....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021

    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!

    And avoiding the blame......of the dirty Brits coming over here spreading their Delta variant.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058

    Jesus, I fell down the New Thread hole again...

    FPT: FrancisUrquhart said:
    Compare with BBC / ITV "analysis"...its like watching standard def vs UHD TV.

    Where is Jadon Sancho? from Tifo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q1RUIxgOpE

    Just a different level of analysis and insight.


    I'm watching a lot more YouTube since lockdown began. You can just nerd out on any subject you want, it's amazing. To be fair to the BBC, ITN, etc, they just don't have the time to go into this level of detail, and it is detail that would probably see a lot of people switching off pretty quickly.

    But we are very fortunate to have YouTube.

    And may I also give an honourable mention to these guys, going from strength to strength: https://www.historyhit.com/

    Yes, plopping 20 minutes on a fringe player into the middle of MotD is unlikely.

    Like many, I do watch a lot of Youtube videos and the content on some channels is excellent, apart from the production values. FFS "take two" to re-record a couple of minutes rather than just flash an apology on screen!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,807
    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    I thought they'd said Windows 10 would be the last version? And it'd be just updates from there?

    The general rule with Windows is that every other version is good, every other one is crap. So Windows 11 is scheduled to be the shit one.
    Windows 3 is far more memorable than 2 or 4. 7 was really good.

    I think your Star Trek brain is taking control.

    (May be a gap with 4-6)
    I remember one called Vista - I had no view on it :0
    5 I think.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Omnium said:

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    I thought they'd said Windows 10 would be the last version? And it'd be just updates from there?

    The general rule with Windows is that every other version is good, every other one is crap. So Windows 11 is scheduled to be the shit one.
    Windows 3 is far more memorable than 2 or 4. 7 was really good.

    I think your Star Trek brain is taking control.

    (May be a gap with 4-6)
    Good: Win 3.11 was my first version, it was good.

    Bad (ish): Win 95 got a lot of attention, but largely a pretty shell. To get many things done, to load games etc you had to go back into DOS. A good first attempt at what it was so the possible exception to the rule but it had a lot of flaws.

    Good: Win 98 was good. A polished working version of what Win 95 was meant to be.

    Bad: Win ME was a disappointment. Better off forgotten.

    Good: Win XP was great. Best version of Windows ever possibly.

    Bad: Win Vista was a disappointment.

    Good: Win 7 as you said.

    Bad: Win 8. Kill it with fire. Nuke from orbit, its the only way to be sure

    Good: Win 10 (which skipped past Win 9, so awful was Win 8).

    The trend is not looking good for Win 11.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    If I was an EU country I would indeed be closing my borders to the U.K. right now.

    (As we should have, to India, much earlier).

    Funny though that Brexity types get shirty about it. That’s the actual mask slipping right there, just angry nativism.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    RobD said:

    Covid Fact Check UK
    @fact_covid
    Latest
    @PHE_uk
    info on antibody seropositivity:

    70-84s: 98.8% (was 98.3%)
    60-69s: 98.6% (was 98.4%)
    50-59: 98.5% (was 98.3%)
    40-49: 93.3% (was 90.0%)
    30-39: 68.0% (was 57.5%)

    98.8% is nuts.
    Yes it is good, as it that it is still going up, but as somebody else pointed out on last thread, this is from people who have chosen to donate blode, so will a full sample, I am no expert, but would think that if you have an immune deficiency, that meant you could not have a vaccine, then you are probably not going to be donating blode, so true number may be less.

    And why the hell cant I, or the spell checker spell Blode, errrrrr (the red liquid stuff in all of us,) perhaps windows 11 will help?!?!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021

    Jesus, I fell down the New Thread hole again...

    FPT: FrancisUrquhart said:
    Compare with BBC / ITV "analysis"...its like watching standard def vs UHD TV.

    Where is Jadon Sancho? from Tifo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q1RUIxgOpE

    Just a different level of analysis and insight.


    I'm watching a lot more YouTube since lockdown began. You can just nerd out on any subject you want, it's amazing. To be fair to the BBC, ITN, etc, they just don't have the time to go into this level of detail, and it is detail that would probably see a lot of people switching off pretty quickly.

    But we are very fortunate to have YouTube.

    And may I also give an honourable mention to these guys, going from strength to strength: https://www.historyhit.com/

    Yes, plopping 20 minutes on a fringe player into the middle of MotD is unlikely.

    Like many, I do watch a lot of Youtube videos and the content on some channels is excellent, apart from the production values. FFS "take two" to re-record a couple of minutes rather than just flash an apology on screen!
    That isn't the point. Within the 20 mins, in 3 mins they clearly explain the general England tactical approach for the Euros so far. You really don't get that on BBC / ITV, it doesn't stretch much before 4-3-4, get it wide, hit it long, show some pace, stretch the play.

    On the tv coverage they all went ohhhhh didn't Philips have an amazing game against Croatia, what a player. The Athletic actually explained there was a lot more to it, Sterling and Foden off the ball dragged players wide, the defenders arranged themselves into particular formations which required opposition players to press, and this allowed Philips a space in a more advanced position. Yes he had a good game, but it was only possible due to a number of moving parts, which you don't see from the cameras covering the play.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,968

    If I was an EU country I would indeed be closing my borders to the U.K. right now.

    (As we should have, to India, much earlier).

    Funny though that Brexity types get shirty about it. That’s the actual mask slipping right there, just angry nativism.

    Why were they open in the first place? The barn door comes to mind given what we now about delta in Europe. It's everywhere already.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Revelation about bears in woods next…

    In EU capitals, suspicion is growing that PM Boris Johnson signed the Withdrawal Agreement and the Northern Ireland Protocol simply to get elected and get Brexit over the line—then, create a fuss over the detailed provisions and try to get a better deal

    https://twitter.com/carolinegruyter/status/1407983413622099973?s=21
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,407

    If I was an EU country I would indeed be closing my borders to the U.K. right now.

    (As we should have, to India, much earlier).

    Funny though that Brexity types get shirty about it. That’s the actual mask slipping right there, just angry nativism.

    It's probably already taken root in those countries, although hopefully, levels of vaccination will ensure that - as here - the impact is not severe/
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230

    If I was an EU country I would indeed be closing my borders to the U.K. right now.

    (As we should have, to India, much earlier).

    Funny though that Brexity types get shirty about it. That’s the actual mask slipping right there, just angry nativism.

    Why? Only accept those who don't have the virus, insist on PCR test.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    If I was an EU country I would indeed be closing my borders to the U.K. right now.

    (As we should have, to India, much earlier).

    Funny though that Brexity types get shirty about it. That’s the actual mask slipping right there, just angry nativism.

    No problems with EU borders being closed.

    They should have already been in fact (as should ours earlier). Stable door now.

    Delta spreading in the UK isn't an issue because our vaccine has been rolled out. That is not the case in the EU.

    I agree with Merkel.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,085

    82.9% of adults first vaccinated now.

    Since I highly doubt we'll reach 90%, that's an incredible achievement. Must be extremely close to being finished now.

    I'm curious what percentage of adults other nations that have peaked like Israel or USA have achieved?

    And no sign of slowing down yet. We'll be over 85% by this time next week, although I agree that getting to 90% will either be very slow or never be reached.

    You can see how we compare as a % of total population with first doses here. We have just overtaken Israel, comfortably ahead of the US (despite them vaccinating down to 12+), but behind Canada.

    The EU is still vaccinating at a good pace, but I'd be surprised if they ever catch up given previous surveys on vaccine hesitancy. Although the quicker countries like Germany are already close to overtaking the US.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,165

    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!

    I'm sure the tourist industry will be chuffed to death. I wonder if they realise how they are helping the UK government as well.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    RobD said:

    Covid Fact Check UK
    @fact_covid
    Latest
    @PHE_uk
    info on antibody seropositivity:

    70-84s: 98.8% (was 98.3%)
    60-69s: 98.6% (was 98.4%)
    50-59: 98.5% (was 98.3%)
    40-49: 93.3% (was 90.0%)
    30-39: 68.0% (was 57.5%)

    98.8% is nuts.
    The one's that aren't seropositive are dead.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,994

    Carnyx said:

    BigRich said:

    I've got a holiday in the Orkney islands planed, for 4 July will I still be able to go? or will they start to lockdown again?

    P.S. any top tips for things to see in the Orkney islands?
    Nava/mil history - Lyness base, maybe a boat tour with camera on a string for the sunken German fleet if that is up and running, some stuff in Stromness Museum. Also Churchill barriers.
    Mediaeval - Kirkwall cathedral, the two palaces, Stromness town
    Archaeological - wall to wall but specials include the Maes Howe/Borgar/Stenness complex in central Mainland. Have a look at the Historic Scotland website for some other ideas of sites. Tomn of the Eagles on South Ronaldsay is I think privately owned.
    Scenic - Yesnaby, Kitchener Monument, walk around coast from Stromness town round to Breckness, for instance
    Cultural - two farmhouse longhouse museums in Mainland when I last went

    The abvoe is the Mainland plus cuaseway connexted islands plus Hoy (ferry). Of the smaller nothern islands, I like Westray very much - castle, scenic Noss Head for birdies, general ambience, golf course (not exactly the R&A, no idea if still there - Papa Westray is the one with the v. ancient houses.

    Food etc - try bere bannocks, and the local whisky, Highland Park being one of my favourite breweries, Scapa is also worth a taste if available

    Tourist Info office on Kirkwall.Stromness definitely worth talkign to. When I was there there was a ghood bookshop[ in Stromness with lots of local stuff.

    May have to save it for another year, mind.
    Tomb of the Eagles is permanently shut.

    The St Magnus cathedral in Kirkwall is essential, as is Maes Howe and Skara Brae and all the other big prehistoric sites.

    Italian chapel.

    Egilsay

    Orkney museum

    Brough of Birsay

    Broch of Gurness




    https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/orkney/ has lots of excursions of all grades
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,318

    tlg86 said:

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    The horror!
    The mask slips.....as we know to EU bods, such an arrangement just isn't sufficient.
    No mask. The EU bods never intended for the EU to be that.

    It was only British politicians and Remainers who were adamant the EU was just a trade bloc etc despite Europeans being keen for that not to be what it was.

    It's why Britain was in hindsight fundamentally unsuitable for Europe. All the talk of two speeds etc never worked, either people should have got on board with the full project or got off the train.

    We eventually did the right thing and I hope the Dutch etc can now do the right thing for them without us in their way. Good luck to them. But yes the Hungarians should be expelled, but I don't think they can be. No idea how they fix that mess.
    Some truth, but not entirely correct Philip. European citizens' understanding on what the EU is and what it is for varies enormously from country to country and person to person. Eastern Europeans are quite Eurosceptic though rarely see the point in leaving, which is quite healthy IMO, whereas some older Germans and Benelux folk really do believe in "ever closer union". The Brexiteer caricature of the EU of a uniform opinion is not one recognised by most Europeans. Most French feel no less French and the Germans feel no less German, and the odd person sees themself as "European first", but none of them have ever pretended it is just a trading block and neither has anyone who has any knowledge of the subject.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,312

    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!

    Thought it was coming.

    Boris waiting till he knew it was all a moot point before opening up travel from the UK side??
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,165

    If I was an EU country I would indeed be closing my borders to the U.K. right now.

    (As we should have, to India, much earlier).

    Funny though that Brexity types get shirty about it. That’s the actual mask slipping right there, just angry nativism.

    Not really - for one thing it's way too late as the Delta variant is already very well seeded. There is also no unanimity of approach at the moment. All they are likley to achieve is to piss off the tourist industry even more.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,807

    Omnium said:

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    I thought they'd said Windows 10 would be the last version? And it'd be just updates from there?

    The general rule with Windows is that every other version is good, every other one is crap. So Windows 11 is scheduled to be the shit one.
    Windows 3 is far more memorable than 2 or 4. 7 was really good.

    I think your Star Trek brain is taking control.

    (May be a gap with 4-6)
    Good: Win 3.11 was my first version, it was good.

    Bad (ish): Win 95 got a lot of attention, but largely a pretty shell. To get many things done, to load games etc you had to go back into DOS. A good first attempt at what it was so the possible exception to the rule but it had a lot of flaws.

    Good: Win 98 was good. A polished working version of what Win 95 was meant to be.

    Bad: Win ME was a disappointment. Better off forgotten.

    Good: Win XP was great. Best version of Windows ever possibly.

    Bad: Win Vista was a disappointment.

    Good: Win 7 as you said.

    Bad: Win 8. Kill it with fire. Nuke from orbit, its the only way to be sure

    Good: Win 10 (which skipped past Win 9, so awful was Win 8).

    The trend is not looking good for Win 11.
    I think I experimented with Windows 1, certainly actually used 2. Before that I used Microsoft's Flight Sim on an Apple II computer ( I have to confess I didn't pay for it, but I have payed for all of their products that I've used since).



  • felixfelix Posts: 15,165
    edited June 2021

    Revelation about bears in woods next…

    In EU capitals, suspicion is growing that PM Boris Johnson signed the Withdrawal Agreement and the Northern Ireland Protocol simply to get elected and get Brexit over the line—then, create a fuss over the detailed provisions and try to get a better deal

    https://twitter.com/carolinegruyter/status/1407983413622099973?s=21

    No flies on our Ursula! - I think her name may even be a derivative of the female bear - 'ursa major' and all that.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,994
    sarissa said:

    Carnyx said:

    BigRich said:

    I've got a holiday in the Orkney islands planed, for 4 July will I still be able to go? or will they start to lockdown again?

    P.S. any top tips for things to see in the Orkney islands?
    Nava/mil history - Lyness base, maybe a boat tour with camera on a string for the sunken German fleet if that is up and running, some stuff in Stromness Museum. Also Churchill barriers.
    Mediaeval - Kirkwall cathedral, the two palaces, Stromness town
    Archaeological - wall to wall but specials include the Maes Howe/Borgar/Stenness complex in central Mainland. Have a look at the Historic Scotland website for some other ideas of sites. Tomn of the Eagles on South Ronaldsay is I think privately owned.
    Scenic - Yesnaby, Kitchener Monument, walk around coast from Stromness town round to Breckness, for instance
    Cultural - two farmhouse longhouse museums in Mainland when I last went

    The abvoe is the Mainland plus cuaseway connexted islands plus Hoy (ferry). Of the smaller nothern islands, I like Westray very much - castle, scenic Noss Head for birdies, general ambience, golf course (not exactly the R&A, no idea if still there - Papa Westray is the one with the v. ancient houses.

    Food etc - try bere bannocks, and the local whisky, Highland Park being one of my favourite breweries, Scapa is also worth a taste if available

    Tourist Info office on Kirkwall.Stromness definitely worth talkign to. When I was there there was a ghood bookshop[ in Stromness with lots of local stuff.

    May have to save it for another year, mind.
    Tomb of the Eagles is permanently shut.

    The St Magnus cathedral in Kirkwall is essential, as is Maes Howe and Skara Brae and all the other big prehistoric sites.

    Italian chapel.

    Egilsay

    Orkney museum

    Brough of Birsay

    Broch of Gurness




    https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/orkney/ has lots of excursions of all grades
    And I presume the Westray - Papa Westray flight (all 2-3 minutes of it) is on your list as well
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    Chancellor Rishi Sunak has said he expects to stop wearing a mask "as soon as possible" after it is no longer legally required in England.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2021

    Revelation about bears in woods next…

    In EU capitals, suspicion is growing that PM Boris Johnson signed the Withdrawal Agreement and the Northern Ireland Protocol simply to get elected and get Brexit over the line—then, create a fuss over the detailed provisions and try to get a better deal

    https://twitter.com/carolinegruyter/status/1407983413622099973?s=21

    As you say, are bears Catholic? Does the Pope shit in the woods?

    This was essayed a week or so on here and this is absolutely what Boris (and Frost) did. He never meant to uphold the provisions of the NIP in full, and there’s actually not that much the EU can now do about it.

    He lied to the Northern Irish, he lied to the DUP, he lied to the EU, and lied to you and me.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,058
    edited June 2021

    Omnium said:

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    I thought they'd said Windows 10 would be the last version? And it'd be just updates from there?

    The general rule with Windows is that every other version is good, every other one is crap. So Windows 11 is scheduled to be the shit one.
    Windows 3 is far more memorable than 2 or 4. 7 was really good.

    I think your Star Trek brain is taking control.

    (May be a gap with 4-6)
    Good: Win 3.11 was my first version, it was good.

    Bad (ish): Win 95 got a lot of attention, but largely a pretty shell. To get many things done, to load games etc you had to go back into DOS. A good first attempt at what it was so the possible exception to the rule but it had a lot of flaws.

    Good: Win 98 was good. A polished working version of what Win 95 was meant to be.

    Bad: Win ME was a disappointment. Better off forgotten.

    Good: Win XP was great. Best version of Windows ever possibly.

    Bad: Win Vista was a disappointment.

    Good: Win 7 as you said.

    Bad: Win 8. Kill it with fire. Nuke from orbit, its the only way to be sure

    Good: Win 10 (which skipped past Win 9, so awful was Win 8).

    The trend is not looking good for Win 11.
    Trivia: the reason Microsoft skipped Windows 9 was to avoid confusing old apps that would only check that far in the name and assume they were on Windows 95 or 98.

    The "great" Windows XP, which followed, was the first to be based on the NT architecture.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Sean_F said:

    If I was an EU country I would indeed be closing my borders to the U.K. right now.

    (As we should have, to India, much earlier).

    Funny though that Brexity types get shirty about it. That’s the actual mask slipping right there, just angry nativism.

    It's probably already taken root in those countries, although hopefully, levels of vaccination will ensure that - as here - the impact is not severe/
    It does appear that timing has been against us, and the Europeans have got lucky (though Covid makes a mockery of such assertions).
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    I thought they'd said Windows 10 would be the last version? And it'd be just updates from there?

    The general rule with Windows is that every other version is good, every other one is crap. So Windows 11 is scheduled to be the shit one.
    Windows 3 is far more memorable than 2 or 4. 7 was really good.

    I think your Star Trek brain is taking control.

    (May be a gap with 4-6)
    Good: Win 3.11 was my first version, it was good.

    Bad (ish): Win 95 got a lot of attention, but largely a pretty shell. To get many things done, to load games etc you had to go back into DOS. A good first attempt at what it was so the possible exception to the rule but it had a lot of flaws.

    Good: Win 98 was good. A polished working version of what Win 95 was meant to be.

    Bad: Win ME was a disappointment. Better off forgotten.

    Good: Win XP was great. Best version of Windows ever possibly.

    Bad: Win Vista was a disappointment.

    Good: Win 7 as you said.

    Bad: Win 8. Kill it with fire. Nuke from orbit, its the only way to be sure

    Good: Win 10 (which skipped past Win 9, so awful was Win 8).

    The trend is not looking good for Win 11.
    I think I experimented with Windows 1, certainly actually used 2. Before that I used Microsoft's Flight Sim on an Apple II computer ( I have to confess I didn't pay for it, but I have payed for all of their products that I've used since).



    No idea what versions 1 and 2 are like, or if they fit the pattern that the ones that followed it have done.

    Do you agree with my alternation from 3.11 to 10 being alternatively good and bad/disappointing?

    Or at least alternating from 98 as I'm not sure if its universally agreed that 95 was problematic.

    I can't think of anyone who says anything positive about ME, Vista or 8.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    Good summary of what we know about Delta:

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/delta-variant-triggers-dangerous-new-phase-pandemic

    Warns that unvaccinated Africa may be seriously decimated by Delta. I'm thinking low vax Arkansas is also in trouble.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    What’s happened at the BBC and the Met police shows the perils of groupthink

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/24/bbc-met-police-perils-groupthink

    Thanks for sharing. Groupthink is a fascinating psychological phenomena from a team dynamic perspective. It is particularly dangerous when conformity of thinking is combined with weak leadership. It is particularly worrying for our political parties and system of government.

    The antidote to groupthink (paradoxically for wokists and , anti-woke warriors alike) is genuine diversity of thought and strong, good quality leadership that is able to recognise groupthink and challenge it. Our party system seems to be moving in the opposite direction.

    Don't hold your breath folks!
    I completely agree with you Nigel.

    Some people are just unwilling to countenance those who have sincerely held differing opinions to them.

    Its not healthy by any means. Only through intellectual challenge and free thought do bad ideas get identified and dismissed, otherwise they ossify into shibboleths.
    I listened to an interesting interview with Big Dom's favourite "rationalist" philosopher the other week. She made a really striking point. In her field, she stated the convention is that every argument somebody makes is treated as coming from a good place, with honest intensions and presumed to have merit and thus you should start your discussion / argument from that assumption. And that both parties are willing to discuss both sides openly, with the ultimate desire to find the best position.

    And the interviewer said, but what if somebody is a bad faith actor. And she sighed and said, well it falls down....and does that happen...sigh, when I started no, not much, now, yes....
    It really, really annoys me when people doubt others' good faith.
    The abuse of the "assumption of good faith" is a very deep subject.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021
    "Great figures on @GBNEWS Andrew Neil show last night. Number one in time slot (again). Three times audience of Sky News. 26% more than BBC News Channel. And we’ve only just begun."

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1407990077792342016?s=20
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    Revelation about bears in woods next…

    In EU capitals, suspicion is growing that PM Boris Johnson signed the Withdrawal Agreement and the Northern Ireland Protocol simply to get elected and get Brexit over the line—then, create a fuss over the detailed provisions and try to get a better deal

    https://twitter.com/carolinegruyter/status/1407983413622099973?s=21


    Am I missing something, or did he not get elected, with an 80 seat majority, before the final agreement was singed?

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,165
    edited June 2021

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak has said he expects to stop wearing a mask "as soon as possible" after it is no longer legally required in England.

    Spain is relaxing the mask rule on Saturday - although the detail shows you have to have one ready to wear in shops, transport, bar/restaurant entrances, outside if social distance not feasible... the list goes on and on. Basically you don't have to wear it if you're alone on a beach or in the campo! :smiley:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    edited June 2021

    Good summary of what we know about Delta:

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/06/delta-variant-triggers-dangerous-new-phase-pandemic

    Warns that unvaccinated Africa may be seriously decimated by Delta. I'm thinking low vax Arkansas is also in trouble.

    Anywhere without highly efficient vaccine or vaccination rates, COVID will find you*....

    * unless you become a prison Island.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak has said he expects to stop wearing a mask "as soon as possible" after it is no longer legally required in England.

    So late Spring 2022 then.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,318

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak has said he expects to stop wearing a mask "as soon as possible" after it is no longer legally required in England.

    Ah, the mask slips!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Omnium said:

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    I thought they'd said Windows 10 would be the last version? And it'd be just updates from there?

    The general rule with Windows is that every other version is good, every other one is crap. So Windows 11 is scheduled to be the shit one.
    Windows 3 is far more memorable than 2 or 4. 7 was really good.

    I think your Star Trek brain is taking control.

    (May be a gap with 4-6)
    Good: Win 3.11 was my first version, it was good.

    Bad (ish): Win 95 got a lot of attention, but largely a pretty shell. To get many things done, to load games etc you had to go back into DOS. A good first attempt at what it was so the possible exception to the rule but it had a lot of flaws.

    Good: Win 98 was good. A polished working version of what Win 95 was meant to be.

    Bad: Win ME was a disappointment. Better off forgotten.

    Good: Win XP was great. Best version of Windows ever possibly.

    Bad: Win Vista was a disappointment.

    Good: Win 7 as you said.

    Bad: Win 8. Kill it with fire. Nuke from orbit, its the only way to be sure

    Good: Win 10 (which skipped past Win 9, so awful was Win 8).

    The trend is not looking good for Win 11.
    Trivia: the reason Microsoft skipped Windows 9 was to avoid confusing old apps that would only check that far in the name and assume they were on Windows 95 or 98.

    The "great" Windows XP, which followed, was the first to be based on the NT architecture.
    Indeed. I knew that, but the supposed reason that they skipped 9 because 8 was crap is more amusing. 😉

    I assume 95 is Windows 4, but I'm not sure which of 98, ME, XP and Vista are meant to be 5 and 6.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I was out in London last night.

    Went to a bar. Absolute toss. Socially distanced queueing, before being escorted to socially distanced tables.

    Then order drinks by app.

    What’s the point?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak has said he expects to stop wearing a mask "as soon as possible" after it is no longer legally required in England.

    So late Spring 2022 then.
    If the zero covidians don't get their way.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442
    Pro_Rata said:

    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!

    Thought it was coming.

    Boris waiting till he knew it was all a moot point before opening up travel from the UK side??
    Very political.

    I haven't been through the numbers yet to compare, however briefly if 15% (reported rate) of German cases are Delta, and it takes 10 days to get the data, that is 400 a day as of 10 days ago.

    Suspect that whether they get any from here is just noise. Delta in Germany does not need any help from here.

    They need to worry about the enforced open borders of the Schengen Area.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,049

    If I was an EU country I would indeed be closing my borders to the U.K. right now.

    (As we should have, to India, much earlier).

    Funny though that Brexity types get shirty about it. That’s the actual mask slipping right there, just angry nativism.

    I hope they clear it with Andy Burnham first.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,165

    Sean_F said:

    If I was an EU country I would indeed be closing my borders to the U.K. right now.

    (As we should have, to India, much earlier).

    Funny though that Brexity types get shirty about it. That’s the actual mask slipping right there, just angry nativism.

    It's probably already taken root in those countries, although hopefully, levels of vaccination will ensure that - as here - the impact is not severe/
    It does appear that timing has been against us, and the Europeans have got lucky (though Covid makes a mockery of such assertions).
    Not sure about the luck thing. In Spain there are many millions under 40 still to receive one shot, 60% of 60-69 years olds still awaiting a second shot and numerous other anomalies. The next 6 weeks or so could be difficult even without a single foreign tourist. The Spanish love intergenerational big fasmily holidays together.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    I was out in London last night.

    Went to a bar. Absolute toss. Socially distanced queueing, before being escorted to socially distanced tables.

    Then order drinks by app.

    What’s the point?

    Covid theatre.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    Prof. Christina Pagel
    @chrischirp
    ·
    6h
    But by June 2022, would be nice to think that I won't be doing *any* news Covid commentary...



    Amen to that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271

    Prof. Christina Pagel
    @chrischirp
    ·
    6h
    But by June 2022, would be nice to think that I won't be doing *any* news Covid commentary...



    Amen to that.

    End of June 2021 would be preferable......
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    darkage said:

    I was out in London last night.

    Went to a bar. Absolute toss. Socially distanced queueing, before being escorted to socially distanced tables.

    Then order drinks by app.

    What’s the point?

    Covid theatre.
    Afraid to say I rather like the ordering drinks by app. No need to break up the flow of chat by someone having to disappear to the bar to queue for ten minutes.

    Of course I realise this probably means the pub is losing money, so not a long term good idea. Unless some places keep it and up their prices to pay for it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,883

    I was out in London last night.

    Went to a bar. Absolute toss. Socially distanced queueing, before being escorted to socially distanced tables.

    Then order drinks by app.

    What’s the point?

    Yeah it sucks mate, this month delay is killing London's nightlife.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,883

    Prof. Christina Pagel
    @chrischirp
    ·
    6h
    But by June 2022, would be nice to think that I won't be doing *any* news Covid commentary...



    Amen to that.

    Make that 2021, please.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,807

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Are we all excited for Microsoft Windows 11?

    I thought they'd said Windows 10 would be the last version? And it'd be just updates from there?

    The general rule with Windows is that every other version is good, every other one is crap. So Windows 11 is scheduled to be the shit one.
    Windows 3 is far more memorable than 2 or 4. 7 was really good.

    I think your Star Trek brain is taking control.

    (May be a gap with 4-6)
    Good: Win 3.11 was my first version, it was good.

    Bad (ish): Win 95 got a lot of attention, but largely a pretty shell. To get many things done, to load games etc you had to go back into DOS. A good first attempt at what it was so the possible exception to the rule but it had a lot of flaws.

    Good: Win 98 was good. A polished working version of what Win 95 was meant to be.

    Bad: Win ME was a disappointment. Better off forgotten.

    Good: Win XP was great. Best version of Windows ever possibly.

    Bad: Win Vista was a disappointment.

    Good: Win 7 as you said.

    Bad: Win 8. Kill it with fire. Nuke from orbit, its the only way to be sure

    Good: Win 10 (which skipped past Win 9, so awful was Win 8).

    The trend is not looking good for Win 11.
    I think I experimented with Windows 1, certainly actually used 2. Before that I used Microsoft's Flight Sim on an Apple II computer ( I have to confess I didn't pay for it, but I have payed for all of their products that I've used since).



    No idea what versions 1 and 2 are like, or if they fit the pattern that the ones that followed it have done.

    Do you agree with my alternation from 3.11 to 10 being alternatively good and bad/disappointing?

    Or at least alternating from 98 as I'm not sure if its universally agreed that 95 was problematic.

    I can't think of anyone who says anything positive about ME, Vista or 8.
    Win 1 and 2 were sort of interesting. They allowed you to run more than one program at a time. There were other programs that allowed you to do that, but they were basically just a complete suspension rather than parallel execution. (Under the hood windows is very cool)

    I don't agree with the alternation, but I'd certainly agree there's bad mixed in with the good, and clearly it's been mostly good.

    I guess 3, 5, 7, 10 are the big versions.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,318

    Chancellor Rishi Sunak has said he expects to stop wearing a mask "as soon as possible" after it is no longer legally required in England.

    So late Spring 2022 then.
    If the zero covidians don't get their way.
    It is a bit disappointing that "Zero Covidians" have such a cool name. They sound like an alien species from "Men in Black", or Hitchhiker's Guide
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If Galloway beats Keith (Which I think is well possible) is he done for ?

    100% will be a leadership challenge. Labour tearing chunks out of each other will be another reminder why they shouldn't be in power. Burnham might flirt with having a go saying he has to think about the Nation as a whole before he runs away from his Manchester Mayoral job. Angela Rayner might well throw her hat in the ring too, she has no reason for loyalty to Sir Keith.
    I have no particular desire to see a Labour government, but Tories should stop gloating and being so complacent. They have a clown for a leader, and they just lost one of their safest seats to the Libs. Sir "Keith" as you strangely like to refer to him as, may well show resilience and have the last laugh. Stranger things have happened. A week is a long time...etc.
    I'd like to see a decent electable opposition but we are where we are. I'm sure we can all find plenty of gloating posts from you 12 months ago about how the very 'forensic' Sir Keith would make mincemeat out of the PM. I'm still waiting for that to materialise.

    Chesham & Amersham is a wake up call for Boris but if he wins Batley & Spen to go with Hartlepool it's an incredible return for any PM 2 years in and any party 11 years in - of that there is little doubt. But Batley is very much still up for grabs IMO.
    No gloating posts from me I am afraid. I am a trad right of centre Tory, which is why I dislike Johnson so much. However, I think Starmer has made mincemeat out of Johnson at PMQs, but then so would a person from a sixth form debating team (probably the reserve team) . Johnson is shit, except, it would seem, at convincing the more gullible that he is a leader. That last bit he appears good at, along with bedding gullible women. Maybe there is a similarity.
    Not even that, really. The story of 2020 was a gradual but relentless shift of voters from the blue to the red column. And given the time sequence, I think we can be confident that was a real effect, rather than random polling noise.

    Then the vaccines happened, and the stone SKS had been rolling up the hill rolled straight back down again. Not much to do with Bozza, but he's in the big chair and gets the credit.

    So the questions are:
    1 Which is more representative- Dame Bingham's brilliance at vaccine procurement, or almost everything else the government does?
    2 How long can the PM continue to use vaccination as his excuse not to talk about anything else?
    3 Following the success of War on France to secure the May elections, who's next?
    The next one needs to be Law on France, and getting a secretariat in place to make this Brexit thing work long-term.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,240
    What is it with invermectin and antivaxxers ?
    It might or might not be a therapeutic for Covid, the jury seems out on that one. But almost every single person on twitter that mentions/pushes it has one of those fucking smiley faces or pink flowers - and look a bit further into their profile and it's all nUrEmBeRg CoDe / gov'ts doing a depopulation via vaccines shite.
    The only sane person I know that seems to want to look into invermectin and is definitely NOT an antivaxxer is Dr John Campbell on Youtube. But the majority of advocates on twitter are just absolutely nuts.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    MattW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!

    Thought it was coming.

    Boris waiting till he knew it was all a moot point before opening up travel from the UK side??
    Very political.

    I haven't been through the numbers yet to compare, however briefly if 15% (reported rate) of German cases are Delta, and it takes 10 days to get the data, that is 400 a day as of 10 days ago.

    Suspect that whether they get any from here is just noise. Delta in Germany does not need any help from here.

    They need to worry about the enforced open borders of the Schengen Area.
    In Germany cases are still dropping 48% WoW, I'm not saying they will not rise, just no sine if it yet.

    I'm not saying this is the case, but could it be that the Delta variant, is 'optimised' to transmit best in young lungs? in which case our policy of strictly going form oldest to youngest, is working against us at this stage, compared to many EU nations which have been vaccinating some young 18 year olds for many weeks now, so will have built up immunity and may even have had there second jab?
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337

    NEW: Portugal suspends lifting of coronavirus restrictions as new cases continue to rise, fueled by the Delta variant

    Lisbon had already introduced a partial lockdown at weekends (so carefully calibrated to have no material effect other than annoy people).

    Europe is really running the risk of just pushing the problem into Q4.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,869

    Revelation about bears in woods next…

    In EU capitals, suspicion is growing that PM Boris Johnson signed the Withdrawal Agreement and the Northern Ireland Protocol simply to get elected and get Brexit over the line—then, create a fuss over the detailed provisions and try to get a better deal

    https://twitter.com/carolinegruyter/status/1407983413622099973?s=21

    As you say, are bears Catholic? Does the Pope shit in the woods?

    This was essayed a week or so on here and this is absolutely what Boris (and Frost) did. He never meant to uphold the provisions of the NIP in full, and there’s actually not that much the EU can now do about it.

    He lied to the Northern Irish, he lied to the DUP, he lied to the EU, and lied to you and me.
    To be fair he did effectively say he would do this during the General Election campaign, and a lot of people laughed and said he didn't understand what he'd signed.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442
    Pulpstar said:

    Latest @PHE_uk info on antibody seropositivity:

    70-84s: 98.8% (was 98.3%)
    60-69s: 98.6% (was 98.4%)
    50-59: 98.5% (was 98.3%)
    40-49: 93.3% (was 90.0%)
    30-39: 68.0% (was 57.5%)

    These results are taken from healthy blood donors.


    https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1408072068638334983?s=20

    One caveat, I'd have thought blood donors to be more likely to get vaccinated than the general population.
    I thought blood donation stopped at70.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230

    I was out in London last night.

    Went to a bar. Absolute toss. Socially distanced queueing, before being escorted to socially distanced tables.

    Then order drinks by app.

    What’s the point?

    No point. It's appalling. Boycott such establishments from 19 July and make your feelings known.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,318
    MattW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!

    Thought it was coming.

    Boris waiting till he knew it was all a moot point before opening up travel from the UK side??
    Very political.

    I haven't been through the numbers yet to compare, however briefly if 15% (reported rate) of German cases are Delta, and it takes 10 days to get the data, that is 400 a day as of 10 days ago.

    Suspect that whether they get any from here is just noise. Delta in Germany does not need any help from here.

    They need to worry about the enforced open borders of the Schengen Area.
    It is quite an amusing turn of events in a black humour sort of way. For years the British press and some politicians have blamed everything on the EU. Now members of the EU have the perfect bogieman to blame when anything goes wrong due to their own incompetence. "it's the UK's fault" says Merkle, and 26 other countries all nod sagely.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,885
    Pulpstar said:

    What is it with invermectin and antivaxxers ?
    It might or might not be a therapeutic for Covid, the jury seems out on that one. But almost every single person on twitter that mentions/pushes it has one of those fucking smiley faces or pink flowers - and look a bit further into their profile and it's all nUrEmBeRg CoDe / gov'ts doing a depopulation via vaccines shite.
    The only sane person I know that seems to want to look into invermectin and is definitely NOT an antivaxxer is Dr John Campbell on Youtube. But the majority of advocates on twitter are just absolutely nuts.

    Thankfully there is a proper controlled trial about to start in UK (it was on BBC website yesterday iirc).

    We might finally get some data that proves one way or the other.

    I suspect anti-vaxxers like it because it is a 'clean' solution that avoids need for any vaccination (in their way of thinking). If covid is curable with a cheap and simple pill why do we need mRNA and all the rest of it? If they are on the more bonkers end of the scale they believe governments are holding invermectin back because Bill Gates has told them they must vaccinate everyone so there can be a world government and so on.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442
    Can anyone tell me whether *all* travellers *from* the UK abroad currently have have one of being vaccinated or have a negative COVID test?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    What is it with invermectin and antivaxxers ?
    It might or might not be a therapeutic for Covid, the jury seems out on that one. But almost every single person on twitter that mentions/pushes it has one of those fucking smiley faces or pink flowers - and look a bit further into their profile and it's all nUrEmBeRg CoDe / gov'ts doing a depopulation via vaccines shite.
    The only sane person I know that seems to want to look into invermectin and is definitely NOT an antivaxxer is Dr John Campbell on Youtube. But the majority of advocates on twitter are just absolutely nuts.

    Them: "It is a conspiracy by big pharm to stop us using a cheap generic."

    Me: "What about the studies and recommendation last year to use Dexamethasone which is a cheap generic?"

    Them: *absolute fucking silence*
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting from CNN.

    "Rising crime puts Democrats on edge
    Julian Zelizer, CNN Political Analyst"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/23/opinions/homicide-rates-crime-law-and-order-biden-democrats-zelizer/index.html

    Classic CNN opinion....yes well violent crime is increasing, probably not best idea to "defund the police"....but the problem is all cos of racism innit, so absolutely the wrong approach is to come down hard on crime.
    I think we tend to see things through a very British mindset.

    There is a serious problem in the US with the police: in some parts of the US, police forces are overwhelmingly white, yet the people being policed are overwhelmingly not white. And this is mated with (a) easy access to guns, and (b) police training that says it is always safer (for the Officer) to go in with your gun already drawn.

    The (extremely well to do) African Americans that I know in America all have tales of being pulled over in the boondocks by the Police on the assumption they stole the vehicle or that they're running a gypsy cap service.

    While "defund the police" is clearly not the answer, nor is pretending that there are no problems.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,240

    Pulpstar said:

    What is it with invermectin and antivaxxers ?
    It might or might not be a therapeutic for Covid, the jury seems out on that one. But almost every single person on twitter that mentions/pushes it has one of those fucking smiley faces or pink flowers - and look a bit further into their profile and it's all nUrEmBeRg CoDe / gov'ts doing a depopulation via vaccines shite.
    The only sane person I know that seems to want to look into invermectin and is definitely NOT an antivaxxer is Dr John Campbell on Youtube. But the majority of advocates on twitter are just absolutely nuts.

    Thankfully there is a proper controlled trial about to start in UK (it was on BBC website yesterday iirc).

    We might finally get some data that proves one way or the other.

    I suspect anti-vaxxers like it because it is a 'clean' solution that avoids need for any vaccination (in their way of thinking). If covid is curable with a cheap and simple pill why do we need mRNA and all the rest of it? If they are on the more bonkers end of the scale they believe governments are holding invermectin back because Bill Gates has told them they must vaccinate everyone so there can be a world government and so on.
    Oh I hope it very much does work !
    But it's a potential tool in the armoury alongside vaccination; shouldn't replace it.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,318

    darkage said:

    I was out in London last night.

    Went to a bar. Absolute toss. Socially distanced queueing, before being escorted to socially distanced tables.

    Then order drinks by app.

    What’s the point?

    Covid theatre.
    Afraid to say I rather like the ordering drinks by app. No need to break up the flow of chat by someone having to disappear to the bar to queue for ten minutes.

    Of course I realise this probably means the pub is losing money, so not a long term good idea. Unless some places keep it and up their prices to pay for it.
    Perhaps they should charge you a delivery charge? Not entirely crazy. Seems preferable to squeezing through hoards of people at a bar, though I would miss using my winning smile at the barmaids to try and convince myself I have still got it!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    MattW said:

    Can anyone tell me whether *all* travellers *from* the UK abroad currently have have one of being vaccinated or have a negative COVID test?

    My understanding is that you can't fly to the UK without a negative Covid test, vaccinated or otherwise.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,692

    I was out in London last night.

    Went to a bar. Absolute toss. Socially distanced queueing, before being escorted to socially distanced tables.

    Then order drinks by app.

    What’s the point?

    +1
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    Jesus, I fell down the New Thread hole again...

    FPT: FrancisUrquhart said:
    Compare with BBC / ITV "analysis"...its like watching standard def vs UHD TV.

    Where is Jadon Sancho? from Tifo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q1RUIxgOpE

    Just a different level of analysis and insight.


    I'm watching a lot more YouTube since lockdown began. You can just nerd out on any subject you want, it's amazing. To be fair to the BBC, ITN, etc, they just don't have the time to go into this level of detail, and it is detail that would probably see a lot of people switching off pretty quickly.

    But we are very fortunate to have YouTube.

    And may I also give an honourable mention to these guys, going from strength to strength: https://www.historyhit.com/

    Big thumbs up for YouTube although like anything else algorithmical I find it a bit unnerving. Classic wrestling matches, superhero star wars speculation, whisky reviews, weird facts about songs, and now TIFO. I find it weird when it notifies me on my phone!
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,318

    Revelation about bears in woods next…

    In EU capitals, suspicion is growing that PM Boris Johnson signed the Withdrawal Agreement and the Northern Ireland Protocol simply to get elected and get Brexit over the line—then, create a fuss over the detailed provisions and try to get a better deal

    https://twitter.com/carolinegruyter/status/1407983413622099973?s=21

    As you say, are bears Catholic? Does the Pope shit in the woods?

    This was essayed a week or so on here and this is absolutely what Boris (and Frost) did. He never meant to uphold the provisions of the NIP in full, and there’s actually not that much the EU can now do about it.

    He lied to the Northern Irish, he lied to the DUP, he lied to the EU, and lied to you and me.
    To be fair he did effectively say he would do this during the General Election campaign, and a lot of people laughed and said he didn't understand what he'd signed.
    Which, let's face it, he didn't. His fanbois will no doubt say it was a stroke of genius.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    tlg86 said:

    Wow:

    Mark Rutte: "For me, Hungary has no place in the EU anymore”

    Rutte if they refuse to withdraw the legislation: “then as far as I am concerned, then there is nothing left for them in the EU”

    “This is such a fundamental point, that if we let that go, we are nothing more than a trading block and a currency


    https://twitter.com/SkyScottBeasley/status/1408077831091937288

    The horror!
    The mask slips.....as we know to EU bods, such an arrangement just isn't sufficient.
    To be fair, the EU treaties say you must adhere to the following things.

    That's the nature of treaties generally.

    I think the EU should go through the process of expelling them, simply because either the treaties mean what they say, or they don't.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442
    edited June 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Can anyone tell me whether *all* travellers *from* the UK abroad currently have have one of being vaccinated or have a negative COVID test?

    My understanding is that you can't fly to the UK without a negative Covid test, vaccinated or otherwise.
    Thanks.

    Do we place any restrictions on travel *from* here, do you know?

    I am trying to get at whether we already severely limit travel to the continent.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Pro_Rata said:

    That’ll stop it!

    Breaking: France joins Germany by insisting that all passenger arrivals from the UK must quarantine — even if they have been fully vaccinated — amid fears over the rise of the ‘Delta’ variant. #COVID19

    https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/1408091543534280712?s=21

    Actually, they’re doing us a favour - keeping us out of that Petri dish otherwise known as “EU Summer 2021”!

    Thought it was coming.

    Boris waiting till he knew it was all a moot point before opening up travel from the UK side??
    Not only has Boris's stupidity in not red-listing India earlier resulted in "Freedom Day" being postponed in the UK he has pretty much guaranteed that nobody else in Europe is going to want to allow us in to their countries either.

    What is the f***g point of allowing vaccinated Brits to travel if we can't go anywhere?

    To add insult to injury he will turn round and tell us how unreasonable the EU for not letting Brits travel and the usual suspects will wave their union jacks and cheer him on. Boris needs us to be constantly "at war" with the rest of Europe to keep the troops fired up but it will not serve us well.
This discussion has been closed.