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The more educated voters are the less likely they’ll be satisfied with BoJo – politicalbetting.com

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  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206
    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    I meant across the country to draw a wider conclusion, anybody can pick on specific seat. And you need to break it down more than median age. The change in university attendance across age bands has been so dramatic that it needs careful analysis.

    Did you know that bald men are more likely to vote Tory than their hairier counterparts? Clearly going bald drives people to the right in politics.
    ...


    What aircraft is used in that illustration? I've always wondered...
    A Bristol Beaufighter I would guess...
    No, whatever it is has a twin tail fins as per a Avro Lancaster/Manchester.

    Bristol Buckingham seems a plausible match.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,316
    theProle said:

    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    I meant across the country to draw a wider conclusion, anybody can pick on specific seat. And you need to break it down more than median age. The change in university attendance across age bands has been so dramatic that it needs careful analysis.

    Did you know that bald men are more likely to vote Tory than their hairier counterparts? Clearly going bald drives people to the right in politics.
    ...


    What aircraft is used in that illustration? I've always wondered...
    A Bristol Beaufighter I would guess...
    No, whatever it is has a twin tail fins as per a Avro Lancaster/Manchester.

    Bristol Buckingham seems a plausible match.
    Nose is wrong for a start....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,316
    edited June 2021
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Gnudders said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Education is not a signal for intelligence. It is more often a signal of parental wealth and/or class.

    In most subjects except stem in fact passing an exam means you have bought into the group think that the marker considers correct. I exempt stem subjects because the answers are provably correct. However goto something like sociology and no matter how brilliant your reasoning for what you answer you will likely get marked down if it differs from herd think
    That last sentence is false. Also one minute you reference what the marker considers correct and the next, "herd think". The notion of "STEM" itself has a lot of ideology behind it, which affects how mathematics is taught and quite possibly the teaching of other subjects too especially softer sciences such as biology. How many STEMmers have ever thought about that? I don't disagree with your attitude towards much of what goes on in university teaching, but does this really have to be argued in terms of STEM versus "something like sociology"? What about say psychology or art history? Like it or not, creativity of thought is often encouraged among art students. (Art students, not necessarily "arts subject" students.)
    2+2 has one answer

    Answer what is this poet trying to say has many yet if you deviate from one of the accepted answers you will get no points no matter how well you answer and what your reasons. Yes its true some stem is unproved theories that could turn out to be wrong but most of it there is one and only one correct answer. There are not multiple answers for example for ohm's law
    import java.lang.reflect.Field;

    public class WinstonSmith {
    public static void main(String[] args) throws Exception {
    Class access = Integer.class.getDeclaredClasses()[0];
    Field cacheField = access.getDeclaredField("cache");
    cacheField.setAccessible(true);
    Integer[] array = (Integer[]) cacheField.get(access);
    array[132] = array[133];
    System.out.printf("2 + 2 = %d",2 + 2);
    }
    }
    You know, you could do the same thing in Python is about a quarter of the characters, and it would be much easier to understand...
    void main()
    {
    printf("2+2 = %d",2+2);
    }

    much simpler
    The point is that 2+2 CAN equal 5

    If you do evil. The code above does just that.....
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206
    theProle said:

    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    I meant across the country to draw a wider conclusion, anybody can pick on specific seat. And you need to break it down more than median age. The change in university attendance across age bands has been so dramatic that it needs careful analysis.

    Did you know that bald men are more likely to vote Tory than their hairier counterparts? Clearly going bald drives people to the right in politics.
    ...


    What aircraft is used in that illustration? I've always wondered...
    A Bristol Beaufighter I would guess...
    No, whatever it is has a twin tail fins as per a Avro Lancaster/Manchester.

    Bristol Buckingham seems a plausible match.
    Bit more googling, and I think I've got it - Lockheed Ventura.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Ventura
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    theProle said:

    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    I meant across the country to draw a wider conclusion, anybody can pick on specific seat. And you need to break it down more than median age. The change in university attendance across age bands has been so dramatic that it needs careful analysis.

    Did you know that bald men are more likely to vote Tory than their hairier counterparts? Clearly going bald drives people to the right in politics.
    ...


    What aircraft is used in that illustration? I've always wondered...
    A Bristol Beaufighter I would guess...
    No, whatever it is has a twin tail fins as per a Avro Lancaster/Manchester.

    Bristol Buckingham seems a plausible match.
    Nose is wrong for a start....
    Lockheed Ventura I’d say: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Ventura#/media/File:PV-1_BuAer_3_side_view.jpg
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409

    rcs1000 said:

    mRNA based immunotherapy is going to be absolutely massive.
    I've been wondering if we are going to use the rapid sequencing capacity we now have on other things once Covid is under control. Sequencing all cancers would be an obvious start. The end point being a personal cancer sequence followed by a personal mRNA "vaccine", as described in the article.

    I do hope we aren't going to wind the programme down.
    The sequencing is one aspect where we came into this as world leaders.
    My eldest, his mother and grandmother had their DNA sampled and stored at the Centre for Life at the turn of the millennium for a rare translocation of chromosomes.
    We are also, as a nation, far more willing to consent to this due to stratopherically high levels of trust in the NHS.
    Not sure much progress has been made on this (It is vanishingly rare), but the infrastructure was already there. It is a competitive advantage that we would be bonkers not to build on.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,316
    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    I meant across the country to draw a wider conclusion, anybody can pick on specific seat. And you need to break it down more than median age. The change in university attendance across age bands has been so dramatic that it needs careful analysis.

    Did you know that bald men are more likely to vote Tory than their hairier counterparts? Clearly going bald drives people to the right in politics.
    ...


    What aircraft is used in that illustration? I've always wondered...
    A Bristol Beaufighter I would guess...
    No, whatever it is has a twin tail fins as per a Avro Lancaster/Manchester.

    Bristol Buckingham seems a plausible match.
    Bit more googling, and I think I've got it - Lockheed Ventura.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Ventura
    Looks like it...

    image
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,050
    edited June 2021
    How much has China paid Stanley Johnson? Walking talking China propaganda machine.

    Stanley Johnson: The West needs to work with China to save the planet

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y76LkU0KsUU
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    It seems our STEM graduates can't agree on the one and only correct answer to "How do you write code for that?"
    Nor even "What kind of plane is that?"
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,876
    dixiedean said:

    It seems our STEM graduates can't agree on the one and only correct answer to "How do you write code for that?"
    Nor even "What kind of plane is that?"

    No merely we are writing the code in different languages
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,316
    dixiedean said:

    It seems our STEM graduates can't agree on the one and only correct answer to "How do you write code for that?"
    Nor even "What kind of plane is that?"

    We had a discussion that led to identifying the aircraft in question. After rejecting various hypothesis as unsupported by the actual evidence.

    We supplied code to do different things in different languages.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    It seems our STEM graduates can't agree on the one and only correct answer to "How do you write code for that?"
    Nor even "What kind of plane is that?"

    No merely we are writing the code in different languages
    The very basis of the liberal arts.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,050
    The prime minister has set out plans to cement the UK's place as a "science superpower".

    Boris Johnson announced how increases in the research budget would be spent.

    He will chair a new National Science and Technology Council to provide "strategic direction" on how research is harnessed for the "public good".

    And Sir Patrick Vallance, the chief scientific adviser to the government, will lead a new Office for Science and Technology Strategy.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-57548531
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,876
    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    It seems our STEM graduates can't agree on the one and only correct answer to "How do you write code for that?"
    Nor even "What kind of plane is that?"

    No merely we are writing the code in different languages
    The very basis of the liberal arts.
    Not really because bonjour, hello and auf wiedersein mean the same despite being in different languages.

    Unless you do something silly and tricky 2+2=4 in all languages
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    It seems our STEM graduates can't agree on the one and only correct answer to "How do you write code for that?"
    Nor even "What kind of plane is that?"

    No merely we are writing the code in different languages
    The very basis of the liberal arts.
    Not really because bonjour, hello and auf wiedersein mean the same despite being in different languages.

    Unless you do something silly and tricky 2+2=4 in all languages
    Oh but they don't. The greetings that is.
    Not much is true removed from its cultural and linguistic context.
    Don't believe me?
    Try teaching colours in English to some Chinese 5 year olds.
    The world is fuzzy and uncertain.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,876
    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    It seems our STEM graduates can't agree on the one and only correct answer to "How do you write code for that?"
    Nor even "What kind of plane is that?"

    No merely we are writing the code in different languages
    The very basis of the liberal arts.
    Not really because bonjour, hello and auf wiedersein mean the same despite being in different languages.

    Unless you do something silly and tricky 2+2=4 in all languages
    Oh but they don't. The greetings that is.
    Not much is true removed from its cultural and linguistic context.
    Don't believe me?
    Try teaching colours in English to some Chinese 5 year olds.
    The world is fuzzy and uncertain.
    Care to name a culture where 2+2 does not = 4 then or where ohms law is different of the gravitational constant or where the circumference of a circle is not pi r^2 oh right because unlike language physics and maths is pretty universal
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Isn't education largely just a proxy for age?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,876
    Chameleon said:

    Isn't education largely just a proxy for age?

    It certainly isn't a proxy for intelligence
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978
    edited June 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    I meant across the country to draw a wider conclusion, anybody can pick on specific seat. And you need to break it down more than median age. The change in university attendance across age bands has been so dramatic that it needs careful analysis.

    Did you know that bald men are more likely to vote Tory than their hairier counterparts? Clearly going bald drives people to the right in politics.
    ...


    What aircraft is used in that illustration? I've always wondered...
    Having looked at images of the Bristol Beaufighter, I don't think it is. The Beaufighter had a much stubbier nose which the propellers protruded in front of.

    And of course, it's not the Mosquito, because that has a rounded cockpit and no gun turret.
    Lockheed Hudson I think.

    It was a US study that used the illustration, which would make sense.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,567
    Chameleon said:

    Isn't education largely just a proxy for age?

    Maybe not quite as much as we like to think sometimes.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,201
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Education is not a signal for intelligence. It is more often a signal of parental wealth and/or class.

    In most subjects except stem in fact passing an exam means you have bought into the group think that the marker considers correct. I exempt stem subjects because the answers are provably correct. However goto something like sociology and no matter how brilliant your reasoning for what you answer you will likely get marked down if it differs from herd think
    You know, this is complete bullshit.

    I studied philosophy at University with a brilliant woman (who sadly ended up making a late career change and is now a lawyer). On a number of her exams, she savaged current thinking, often making very sarcastic digs at her own tutors.

    And she got a Starred First, and was top of the class. She did this, it is worth noting, while simultaneously getting Firsts in English and Music.

    So the idea that you need to agree with your tutors and the groupthink is - in many subjects at least - complete bullisht.
    A sample of one does not unfortunately demonstrate 'complete' bullshit.

    Even when I was back at University people with disapproved views on moral issues were being harassed in tutorials. At one point views on abortion were a flashpoint.

    It's less than a month since a student at Abertay University was referred for disciplinary action for saying a woman is "someone with a vagina" in an online class. Potential penalty - loss of degree. That won't happen, but the existence of the process and the "we are required to follow through a complaint" is the threat. That is in my Council's noise complaint procedure, without a "vexatious" check, and a bastard neighbour harassed one of my female Tenants by making a groundless complaint every year.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2021/05/abertay-uni-law-student-faces-disciplinary-action-over-offensive-gender-comments-during-online-class/

    On-topic - the proof that 'level of education' is not a dependent variable?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited June 2021
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Education is not a signal for intelligence. It is more often a signal of parental wealth and/or class.

    In most subjects except stem in fact passing an exam means you have bought into the group think that the marker considers correct. I exempt stem subjects because the answers are provably correct. However goto something like sociology and no matter how brilliant your reasoning for what you answer you will likely get marked down if it differs from herd think
    You know, this is complete bullshit.

    I studied philosophy at University with a brilliant woman (who sadly ended up making a late career change and is now a lawyer). On a number of her exams, she savaged current thinking, often making very sarcastic digs at her own tutors.

    And she got a Starred First, and was top of the class. She did this, it is worth noting, while simultaneously getting Firsts in English and Music.

    So the idea that you need to agree with your tutors and the groupthink is - in many subjects at least - complete bullisht.
    Because one person managed it doesn't make it true for all though, for most I knew in for example sociology they would get anything divergent thrown back at them as not supported by the sociology texts
    I'm sure that it may be true in some areas, but it's definitely not true in all. A few years back a professor at my University got a grant from the EU to promote 'EU studies' (Jean Monnet Chairs iirc) and consequently set up a 'Future of the EU module'. For a slight change of pace I chose and received a somewhat overly fair 70%+ for writing two fairly average strongly anti-EU essays. While some institutions are clearly submitting to group think, others aren't.

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    darkage said:

    This is consistent with the reality - university education is a process of socialisation in to a progressive value system.

    Johnson is also good at appealing to ordinary people, he should get some credit for that.

    He is good at appealing to people who lack the insight to see through him.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think George Galloway has a chance of actually winning in Batley & Spen?

    An outside shot which would depend on:

    (1) generally low turnout except for:
    (2) Muslim vote that is organised and swings for Galloway
    (3) Heavy Woollen vote not going to the Tories but staying at home / fringe candidates
    (4) Tories not inspiring people

    Look for BJ going there as he did with Hartlepool pre-election. If the Tories are confident, he will be up there.
    He also appeared in Chesham & Amersham.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,910
    edited June 2021
    deleted
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Pagan2 said:



    Care to name a culture where 2+2 does not = 4 then

    Accountancy.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,910
    edited June 2021
    justin124 said:

    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think George Galloway has a chance of actually winning in Batley & Spen?

    An outside shot which would depend on:

    (1) generally low turnout except for:
    (2) Muslim vote that is organised and swings for Galloway
    (3) Heavy Woollen vote not going to the Tories but staying at home / fringe candidates
    (4) Tories not inspiring people

    Look for BJ going there as he did with Hartlepool pre-election. If the Tories are confident, he will be up there.
    He also appeared in Chesham & Amersham.
    Boris has already done a photo-op in Fox's biscuits, which is Batley's largest employer (currently being sold to Ferrero of Rocher fame).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Education is not a signal for intelligence. It is more often a signal of parental wealth and/or class.

    In most subjects except stem in fact passing an exam means you have bought into the group think that the marker considers correct. I exempt stem subjects because the answers are provably correct. However goto something like sociology and no matter how brilliant your reasoning for what you answer you will likely get marked down if it differs from herd think
    You know, this is complete bullshit.

    I studied philosophy at University with a brilliant woman (who sadly ended up making a late career change and is now a lawyer). On a number of her exams, she savaged current thinking, often making very sarcastic digs at her own tutors.

    And she got a Starred First, and was top of the class. She did this, it is worth noting, while simultaneously getting Firsts in English and Music.

    So the idea that you need to agree with your tutors and the groupthink is - in many subjects at least - complete bullisht.
    I never went out of my way to pick fights with my tutors, but I don’t think my view that “maybe Samuel Huntington had a point” went down too well.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think George Galloway has a chance of actually winning in Batley & Spen?

    Maybe not of winning, but certainly of coming second.
    Con 40%
    GG 25%
    Lab 20%
    Sounds plausible, from reports on the ground - and will give Starmer nightmares if it happens.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    The government’s chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, has been asked by Boris Johnson to investigate whether the UK’s successful vaccine procurement programme can be replicated in other areas of technology.

    Vallance, who has become a household name following his appearances at coronavirus press conferences, will take on the new title of national technology adviser, serving alongside his current roles.

    Johnson has been fixated on the success of the vaccine taskforce, which was led by the venture capitalist Kate Bingham and operated with relative autonomy outside the existing civil service structures.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/20/sir-patrick-vallance-national-technology-adviser

    Ohhhh goody more dodgy models / graphs.

    Cummings was right. Again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104

    The prime minister has set out plans to cement the UK's place as a "science superpower".

    Boris Johnson announced how increases in the research budget would be spent.

    He will chair a new National Science and Technology Council to provide "strategic direction" on how research is harnessed for the "public good".

    And Sir Patrick Vallance, the chief scientific adviser to the government, will lead a new Office for Science and Technology Strategy.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-57548531

    Oh dear.

    It sounds the very antithesis of this:

    Why does DARPA work?
    https://benjaminreinhardt.com/wddw

    The large increase in the research budget is to be welcomed, but aim unconvinced that a Council chaired by the great bluffer himself is the ideal body to direct where the money goes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104
    The 2022 Senate election in Iowa just got interesting.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/20/iowa-poll-chuck-grassley-495283
  • Interesting piece. I'm steering clear of betting on Labour in B&S.
  • The prime minister has set out plans to cement the UK's place as a "science superpower".


    This is typical Boris Johnson and I think people are starting to see through it now. Bluster some super-duper global grand scheme which will ...

    ... be completely un-costed, unplanned and untested. Half the Cabinet won't have heard anything about it and the Treasury won't have been kept informed.

    This is probably on topic. Dull headed people still believe the buffoon. Intelligent and educated people see through him.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Interesting header choice of nomenclature for the PM - will we be seeing the same irreverence for the other political leaders?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    felix said:

    Interesting header choice of nomenclature for the PM - will we be seeing the same irreverence for the other political leaders?

    Ffs the 21st century is nearly 25% gone, you don't have to sound like a Victorian alderman any more. Irreverence!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    It seems our STEM graduates can't agree on the one and only correct answer to "How do you write code for that?"
    Nor even "What kind of plane is that?"

    No merely we are writing the code in different languages
    The very basis of the liberal arts.
    Not really because bonjour, hello and auf wiedersein mean the same despite being in different languages.

    Unless you do something silly and tricky 2+2=4 in all languages
    Oh but they don't. The greetings that is.
    Not much is true removed from its cultural and linguistic context.
    Don't believe me?
    Try teaching colours in English to some Chinese 5 year olds.
    The world is fuzzy and uncertain.
    Care to name a culture where 2+2 does not = 4 then or where ohms law is different of the gravitational constant or where the circumference of a circle is not pi r^2 oh right because unlike language physics and maths is pretty universal
    In my culture pi r^2 is not the circumference of a circle.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    IshmaelZ said:

    felix said:

    Interesting header choice of nomenclature for the PM - will we be seeing the same irreverence for the other political leaders?

    Ffs the 21st century is nearly 25% gone, you don't have to sound like a Victorian alderman any more. Irreverence!
    One can only presume you're one of those lumpen uneducated Tory voting bigot. Oh well.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Pagan2 said:



    Care to name a culture where 2+2 does not = 4 then

    Accountancy.

    Management consulting. The correct answer is '2+2 = whatever you want it to'
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Chameleon said:

    Isn't education largely just a proxy for age?

    There is clearly a cross-correlation, and it would be interesting to see some analysis of education v voting behaviour within age cohorts, to see whether the correlation is as strong when you take the age factor away.

    This is important because, as the ageing of the population levels off (with the boomers heading toward retirement and rising life expectancy topping out), the progressive increase in the proportion who are graduates will be the principal demographic shift of the electorate in coming years (with greater ethnic mix being the second).

    If you consider very crudely that every year a new cohort of whom about 50% are destined to get a degree is added to the voting register, replacing a departing cohort where the percentage is likely nearer 20%, then the proportion of graduates among voters is increasing by about 0.4-0.5% every year.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    When “ringfenced” becomes “earmarked”

    I've just read the SNP statement on the missing £666,953

    In summary, it says that they spend any ringfenced money on what they like, but keep a tab running of how much is due.

    There is no cash to back-up that tab - it relies on future income.

    Isn't that what a Ponzi Scheme is?


    https://twitter.com/RankinPeter/status/1406537724534874114?s=20
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    felix said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    felix said:

    Interesting header choice of nomenclature for the PM - will we be seeing the same irreverence for the other political leaders?

    Ffs the 21st century is nearly 25% gone, you don't have to sound like a Victorian alderman any more. Irreverence!
    One can only presume you're one of those lumpen uneducated Tory voting bigot. Oh well.
    Except for a BA 2 x MA and a PhD, spot on.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Thread explaining (for the hard of thinking) why we are still getting deaths in the fully vaccinated:

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1406571683947991041?s=20

    TL:dr - the fully vaccinated are in the “much more likely to die” group and no vaccine is 100% effective.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    IshmaelZ said:

    felix said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    felix said:

    Interesting header choice of nomenclature for the PM - will we be seeing the same irreverence for the other political leaders?

    Ffs the 21st century is nearly 25% gone, you don't have to sound like a Victorian alderman any more. Irreverence!
    One can only presume you're one of those lumpen uneducated Tory voting bigot. Oh well.
    Except for a BA 2 x MA and a PhD, spot on.
    Education just washes off some people ;)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    When Delta gets loose in a largely unvaccinated community:

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1406779894785351688?s=20
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    IshmaelZ said:

    felix said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    felix said:

    Interesting header choice of nomenclature for the PM - will we be seeing the same irreverence for the other political leaders?

    Ffs the 21st century is nearly 25% gone, you don't have to sound like a Victorian alderman any more. Irreverence!
    One can only presume you're one of those lumpen uneducated Tory voting bigot. Oh well.
    Except for a BA 2 x MA and a PhD, spot on.
    Wot no o levels?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The NSW government made masks mandatory on public transport in greater Sydney on Friday for the next five days, but has so far refrained from introducing other restrictions.
    The mandate came after NSW Health determined on Friday that the new case was as a result of a “fleeting contact” with an existing case. It is the second “fleeting contact” transmission connected to the first case.
    A woman in her 70s was sitting outside a cafe that the initial case had visited and genomic sequencing of her virus is an exact match to the first case.


    https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/19/new-south-wales-records-three-new-covid-cases-as-mandatory-masks-introduced
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    felix said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    felix said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    felix said:

    Interesting header choice of nomenclature for the PM - will we be seeing the same irreverence for the other political leaders?

    Ffs the 21st century is nearly 25% gone, you don't have to sound like a Victorian alderman any more. Irreverence!
    One can only presume you're one of those lumpen uneducated Tory voting bigot. Oh well.
    Except for a BA 2 x MA and a PhD, spot on.
    Wot no o levels?
    I'm so old I got numbers not letters for the results...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Has this analysis been controlled for age?

    If not, then it’s pretty meaningless
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    This isn't going to go down well...I can hear the cries from parents of some 20st kid to the media that little Johnny is just big boned and very muscular for his age.

    Schools to weigh pupils over fears of obesity spike

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1406724216163029002?s=20

    You missed a word
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    We need to normalize against proportion who went to university of different age demographics to really make statement about links to educational achievement, otherwise it is really a proxy for age.

    Median age in C and A is 41.5 years

    Hartlepool 38.5

    Bately and Spen 36.5

    So C and A have the oldest, yet best educated population.
    Have you compared house prices?

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748

    How much has China paid Stanley Johnson? Walking talking China propaganda machine.

    Stanley Johnson: The West needs to work with China to save the planet

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y76LkU0KsUU

    Pretty clear this PM is personally compromised on China. Everyone talks about Rishi or Truss or Patel as next leader but if I had a vote I’d want to give it to Tugenhardt.
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Education is not a signal for intelligence. It is more often a signal of parental wealth and/or class.

    In most subjects except stem in fact passing an exam means you have bought into the group think that the marker considers correct. I exempt stem subjects because the answers are provably correct. However goto something like sociology and no matter how brilliant your reasoning for what you answer you will likely get marked down if it differs from herd think
    You know, this is complete bullshit.

    I studied philosophy at University with a brilliant woman (who sadly ended up making a late career change and is now a lawyer). On a number of her exams, she savaged current thinking, often making very sarcastic digs at her own tutors.

    And she got a Starred First, and was top of the class. She did this, it is worth noting, while simultaneously getting Firsts in English and Music.

    So the idea that you need to agree with your tutors and the groupthink is - in many subjects at least - complete bullisht.
    This is how the university should be, but in a lot of cases it just isn't like this any more.

    I think it is pretty easy to 'pass'. The issue is that if your views run contrary to the progressive orthodoxy you could now potentially get expelled/suspended for holding extreme or hateful views; or you just get more forensic and pedantic criticism of your work, getting it marked down.

    As I said in my other posts these comments/beliefs are not based on bitterness - I got a first from a top university, but I came to believe that a large part of the reason why was that I was expressing the right views and advancing progressive arguments, whilst choosing courses run by sympathetic lecturers.


  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think George Galloway has a chance of actually winning in Batley & Spen?

    If that Dan Hodges article is half true, it sounds horrifically toxic in Batley & Spen. Literal whipping up of anti semitism to get the Muslim vote. What a disaster
    Canvassing outside Jamia Masjid in Heckmondwike on Friday, the Labour candidate in the Batley and Spen byelection, Kim Leadbeater, received a hostile reception from voters who are unhappy with the party’s stance on foreign policy issues such as Palestine and Kashmir, amid a perception that the party takes some forms of racism more seriously than others.

    The accusation “you’ve taken our votes for granted” was repeatedly levelled at Leadbeater and Lisa Nandy, the shadow foreign secretary and Wigan MP, who joined her on the campaign trail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/20/muslims-keir-starmer-leaves-batley-voters-disaffected-labour
    If elections in England are going to be decided by being able to deter Muslims from voting for a because it’s leaders wife is Jewish, can anyone really say we are becoming a tolerant society? It’s incredible to think this might even be true
    Paul Mason was arguing Muslims should vote Labour because otherwise the BJP-aligned Tories would win… and that since the BJP are oppressing Muslims that should be unconscionable
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Education is not a signal for intelligence. It is more often a signal of parental wealth and/or class.

    In most subjects except stem in fact passing an exam means you have bought into the group think that the marker considers correct. I exempt stem subjects because the answers are provably correct. However goto something like sociology and no matter how brilliant your reasoning for what you answer you will likely get marked down if it differs from herd think
    You know, this is complete bullshit.

    I studied philosophy at University with a brilliant woman (who sadly ended up making a late career change and is now a lawyer). On a number of her exams, she savaged current thinking, often making very sarcastic digs at her own tutors.

    And she got a Starred First, and was top of the class. She did this, it is worth noting, while simultaneously getting Firsts in English and Music.

    So the idea that you need to agree with your tutors and the groupthink is - in many subjects at least - complete bullisht.
    Cambridge isn’t typical
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think George Galloway has a chance of actually winning in Batley & Spen?

    An outside shot which would depend on:

    (1) generally low turnout except for:
    (2) Muslim vote that is organised and swings for Galloway
    (3) Heavy Woollen vote not going to the Tories but staying at home / fringe candidates
    (4) Tories not inspiring people

    Look for BJ going there as he did with Hartlepool pre-election. If the Tories are confident, he will be up there.
    He was there on Friday
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Education is not a signal for intelligence. It is more often a signal of parental wealth and/or class.

    In most subjects except stem in fact passing an exam means you have bought into the group think that the marker considers correct. I exempt stem subjects because the answers are provably correct. However goto something like sociology and no matter how brilliant your reasoning for what you answer you will likely get marked down if it differs from herd think
    You know, this is complete bullshit.

    I studied philosophy at University with a brilliant woman (who sadly ended up making a late career change and is now a lawyer). On a number of her exams, she savaged current thinking, often making very sarcastic digs at her own tutors.

    And she got a Starred First, and was top of the class. She did this, it is worth noting, while simultaneously getting Firsts in English and Music.

    So the idea that you need to agree with your tutors and the groupthink is - in many subjects at least - complete bullisht.
    What a waste.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845

    Thread explaining (for the hard of thinking) why we are still getting deaths in the fully vaccinated:

    https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1406571683947991041?s=20

    TL:dr - the fully vaccinated are in the “much more likely to die” group and no vaccine is 100% effective.

    Having been double vaccinated I thought that I had a 96% chance of living forever! Have I been misled?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Education is not a signal for intelligence. It is more often a signal of parental wealth and/or class.

    In most subjects except stem in fact passing an exam means you have bought into the group think that the marker considers correct. I exempt stem subjects because the answers are provably correct. However goto something like sociology and no matter how brilliant your reasoning for what you answer you will likely get marked down if it differs from herd think
    So the idea that you need to agree with your tutors and the groupthink is - in many subjects at least - complete bullisht.
    I'm pretty sure that the only reason I got into Oxford was because halfway through the interview I thought "sod it, I'm not getting in, so I'd might as well give as good as I get".

    Many moons later, however, when studying at the OU I took exception to a course on English literature which had a distinctly feminist perspective (but had not been described as such) and argued with the confident assertion that the reason we don't hear of Aphra Behn is because she's a woman while Shakespeare's a man - and not, as I argued, because Shakespeare was a (much) better writer. Got marked down for that - only module not to get a First.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    dixiedean said:


    rcs1000 said:

    mRNA based immunotherapy is going to be absolutely massive.
    I've been wondering if we are going to use the rapid sequencing capacity we now have on other things once Covid is under control. Sequencing all cancers would be an obvious start. The end point being a personal cancer sequence followed by a personal mRNA "vaccine", as described in the article.

    I do hope we aren't going to wind the programme down.
    The sequencing is one aspect where we came into this as world leaders.
    My eldest, his mother and grandmother had their DNA sampled and stored at the Centre for Life at the turn of the millennium for a rare translocation of chromosomes.
    We are also, as a nation, far more willing to consent to this due to stratopherically high levels of trust in the NHS.
    Not sure much progress has been made on this (It is vanishingly rare), but the infrastructure was already there. It is a competitive advantage that we would be bonkers not to build on.
    David Willets deserves a lot of credit for pushing it through
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”

    "with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube".

    Fantastic lack of self-awareness. I bet they would have been all NIMBY about those initial rail and (overground) Tube developments they now laud....
    As would those people living along the high speed sections of the metropolitan line, watching the fast Amersham trains speed by their homes?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Charles said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think George Galloway has a chance of actually winning in Batley & Spen?

    If that Dan Hodges article is half true, it sounds horrifically toxic in Batley & Spen. Literal whipping up of anti semitism to get the Muslim vote. What a disaster
    Canvassing outside Jamia Masjid in Heckmondwike on Friday, the Labour candidate in the Batley and Spen byelection, Kim Leadbeater, received a hostile reception from voters who are unhappy with the party’s stance on foreign policy issues such as Palestine and Kashmir, amid a perception that the party takes some forms of racism more seriously than others.

    The accusation “you’ve taken our votes for granted” was repeatedly levelled at Leadbeater and Lisa Nandy, the shadow foreign secretary and Wigan MP, who joined her on the campaign trail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/20/muslims-keir-starmer-leaves-batley-voters-disaffected-labour
    If elections in England are going to be decided by being able to deter Muslims from voting for a because it’s leaders wife is Jewish, can anyone really say we are becoming a tolerant society? It’s incredible to think this might even be true
    Paul Mason was arguing Muslims should vote Labour because otherwise the BJP-aligned Tories would win… and that since the BJP are oppressing Muslims that should be unconscionable
    It does sound like there’s a lot of unofficial but quite nasty sectarian campaigning going on in B&S, mostly via social media and text message chains.

    Not really the sort of thing we want to see in the UK, with ‘friends of Mr Galloway’ most likely to be behind it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”

    Surely that’s a spoof, or do people really have so little self-awareness?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,445
    edited June 2021
    Good morning everyone. Much relief here at the result of the football; thought 0-1 wasn't too bad for Wales.

    On topic, having looked through the constituency degree list, I find that I lived for a long time in one of those with a very low percentage (although two of our three children left there with one, as did my sister and myself) and my present one isn't there at all.
    And the one where I lived for longest, has, during my lifetime, swung very much to the Tories.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,420

    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”

    "with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube".

    Fantastic lack of self-awareness. I bet they would have been all NIMBY about those initial rail and (overground) Tube developments they now laud....
    When the original London and Birmingham railway was debated in the Lords, one landowner along the root accused Robert Stephenson of being a revolutionary. ‘By Gad! It will mean the destruction of the noblesse!’

    The offer for his land was upped by 75% and at that point he shut up.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    moonshine said:

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Education is not a signal for intelligence. It is more often a signal of parental wealth and/or class.

    In most subjects except stem in fact passing an exam means you have bought into the group think that the marker considers correct. I exempt stem subjects because the answers are provably correct. However goto something like sociology and no matter how brilliant your reasoning for what you answer you will likely get marked down if it differs from herd think
    You know, this is complete bullshit.

    I studied philosophy at University with a brilliant woman (who sadly ended up making a late career change and is now a lawyer). On a number of her exams, she savaged current thinking, often making very sarcastic digs at her own tutors.

    And she got a Starred First, and was top of the class. She did this, it is worth noting, while simultaneously getting Firsts in English and Music.

    So the idea that you need to agree with your tutors and the groupthink is - in many subjects at least - complete bullisht.
    This is how the university should be, but in a lot of cases it just isn't like this any more.

    I think it is pretty easy to 'pass'. The issue is that if your views run contrary to the progressive orthodoxy you could now potentially get expelled/suspended for holding extreme or hateful views; or you just get more forensic and pedantic criticism of your work, getting it marked down.

    As I said in my other posts these comments/beliefs are not based on bitterness - I got a first from a top university, but I came to believe that a large part of the reason why was that I was expressing the right views and advancing progressive arguments, whilst choosing courses run by sympathetic lecturers.


    Since we are sharing anecdotes. When I was at at a top red brick, I became mates with a local pub landlord during many lock ins. He told a sad tale. He had signed up for a Masters, can’t recall exactly the subject, social policy related. He took a job in the pub to pay for it and got given digs above it.

    When he turned in his dissertation, the tutor failed him. On the basis that he had signed up for a taught degree, not a research degree, and the paper including too much independent thinking. Several months later, the tutor published a book in his own name plagiarising the paper. Not just the concepts, a word for word copy that filled the key chapters of the book. He showed me the two side by side.

    My mate spent what little he had on legal avenues but hit a wall, because of the box all students tick that gives away their intellectual property to the university.

    A decade later, my incredibly bright and intelligent mate was still stuck in the pub, now as landlord. Spending his days intermediating between the punters, many of whom were overspill mental health patients that had been dumped on the neighbouring council estate. I always remember the one young lad with multiple personality disorder, who was sweet as you like until he stopped taking his meds (once every few months), when he switched to an angry old woman.

    My mate did his best for these people and tried to have some fun with the students, but one wonders what he might have achieved with his life and for others, if the university hadn’t screwed him.
    He probably wouldn't have done anything as useful. But the tutor really should have been sacked for such dishonesty.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,418
    How does this align with age groups given it is only relatively recently we have been sending a large amount of students into uni to take degrees ? My age group the people taking degrees was a tiny proportion in comparison.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,461
    Ah yes, the whole “universities are just left wing group think centres, it wasnt like that in my day” group think frothfest was in full swing last night.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,579
    ydoethur said:

    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”

    "with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube".

    Fantastic lack of self-awareness. I bet they would have been all NIMBY about those initial rail and (overground) Tube developments they now laud....
    When the original London and Birmingham railway was debated in the Lords, one landowner along the root accused Robert Stephenson of being a revolutionary. ‘By Gad! It will mean the destruction of the noblesse!’

    The offer for his land was upped by 75% and at that point he shut up.
    He was much obliged.....
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    When “ringfenced” becomes “earmarked”

    I've just read the SNP statement on the missing £666,953

    In summary, it says that they spend any ringfenced money on what they like, but keep a tab running of how much is due.

    There is no cash to back-up that tab - it relies on future income.

    Isn't that what a Ponzi Scheme is?


    https://twitter.com/RankinPeter/status/1406537724534874114?s=20

    That’s not the way restricted funds are accounted for
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    Charles said:

    When “ringfenced” becomes “earmarked”

    I've just read the SNP statement on the missing £666,953

    In summary, it says that they spend any ringfenced money on what they like, but keep a tab running of how much is due.

    There is no cash to back-up that tab - it relies on future income.

    Isn't that what a Ponzi Scheme is?


    https://twitter.com/RankinPeter/status/1406537724534874114?s=20

    That’s not the way restricted funds are accounted for
    It's pretty similar to the way health and education spending are "accounted" for in the brave new Scotland though.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think George Galloway has a chance of actually winning in Batley & Spen?

    If that Dan Hodges article is half true, it sounds horrifically toxic in Batley & Spen. Literal whipping up of anti semitism to get the Muslim vote. What a disaster
    Canvassing outside Jamia Masjid in Heckmondwike on Friday, the Labour candidate in the Batley and Spen byelection, Kim Leadbeater, received a hostile reception from voters who are unhappy with the party’s stance on foreign policy issues such as Palestine and Kashmir, amid a perception that the party takes some forms of racism more seriously than others.

    The accusation “you’ve taken our votes for granted” was repeatedly levelled at Leadbeater and Lisa Nandy, the shadow foreign secretary and Wigan MP, who joined her on the campaign trail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/20/muslims-keir-starmer-leaves-batley-voters-disaffected-labour
    If elections in England are going to be decided by being able to deter Muslims from voting for a because it’s leaders wife is Jewish, can anyone really say we are becoming a tolerant society? It’s incredible to think this might even be true
    Don't worry. They won't be deterred from voting! Just from voting Labour, they'll vote for Goaway.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited June 2021
    ydoethur said:

    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”

    "with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube".

    Fantastic lack of self-awareness. I bet they would have been all NIMBY about those initial rail and (overground) Tube developments they now laud....
    When the original London and Birmingham railway was debated in the Lords, one landowner along the root accused Robert Stephenson of being a revolutionary. ‘By Gad! It will mean the destruction of the noblesse!’

    The offer for his land was upped by 75% and at that point he shut up.
    A Scottish friend of mine founded the Glensporran against wind farms pressure group. He got a letter from Evil Megacorp Inc and opened it expecting some sort of soft soap about how a representative of the company would come to address a meeting of the organisation on the benefits of windfarming. Actually it contained an offer to put windmills on his land so staggeringly generous that his letter of resignation from the chair of GSAWF went in the post that evening.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    IanB2 said:

    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”

    "with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube".

    Fantastic lack of self-awareness. I bet they would have been all NIMBY about those initial rail and (overground) Tube developments they now laud....
    As would those people living along the high speed sections of the metropolitan line, watching the fast Amersham trains speed by their homes?
    I think you will find that the Metropolitan line was their before them. That was the point.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”

    "with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube".

    Fantastic lack of self-awareness. I bet they would have been all NIMBY about those initial rail and (overground) Tube developments they now laud....
    When the original London and Birmingham railway was debated in the Lords, one landowner along the root accused Robert Stephenson of being a revolutionary. ‘By Gad! It will mean the destruction of the noblesse!’

    The offer for his land was upped by 75% and at that point he shut up.
    Not on a branch line, then.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    TimT said:

    Pagan2 said:



    Care to name a culture where 2+2 does not = 4 then

    Accountancy.

    Management consulting. The correct answer is '2+2 = whatever you want it to'
    Oi! You been nebbing at me on LinkedIn?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,461
    Fenman said:

    IanB2 said:

    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”

    "with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube".

    Fantastic lack of self-awareness. I bet they would have been all NIMBY about those initial rail and (overground) Tube developments they now laud....
    As would those people living along the high speed sections of the metropolitan line, watching the fast Amersham trains speed by their homes?
    I think you will find that the Metropolitan line was their before them. That was the point.
    Ah yes, good old NODAMs. No Development After Mine. My village is full of them.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,226
    It's certainly true that no qualifications is massively correlated with age; you would have to have left school in before the mid 1980s at the very latest. So aged about 55 at the youngest, and probably quite a bit older.
    And the sort of jobs you could walk into at age 15 don't really exist in the same way now. Another of those bits of the baby boomer dream that isn't coming back.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think George Galloway has a chance of actually winning in Batley & Spen?

    Maybe not of winning, but certainly of coming second.
    Con 40%
    GG 25%
    Lab 20%
    Sounds plausible, from reports on the ground - and will give Starmer nightmares if it happens.
    The idea of Goaway winning is horrifying. But he has done it before and is definitely a dangerous candidate in the right seat in the right circumstances.

    B&S is perfect for him, a combination of angry Asian men and angry white men. Galloway manages to play different tunes to both whilst not sounding contradictory.

    I expect him to come second. My only note of concern is that there's been a few things with him where Heavy Woollen types appear to be on board. How you combine "Palestine is our issue" with "I'm sick of being called a racist cos I don't like foreigners" I don't know but he does it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,794
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Sandpit, surely the constituency that gave us a mob chasing a teacher into hiding and fear for his life over a cartoon is the epitome of open-minded and sensible behaviour?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    moonshine said:

    How much has China paid Stanley Johnson? Walking talking China propaganda machine.

    Stanley Johnson: The West needs to work with China to save the planet

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y76LkU0KsUU

    Pretty clear this PM is personally compromised on China. Everyone talks about Rishi or Truss or Patel as next leader but if I had a vote I’d want to give it to Tugenhardt.
    Link?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,445

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think George Galloway has a chance of actually winning in Batley & Spen?

    Maybe not of winning, but certainly of coming second.
    Con 40%
    GG 25%
    Lab 20%
    Sounds plausible, from reports on the ground - and will give Starmer nightmares if it happens.
    The idea of Goaway winning is horrifying. But he has done it before and is definitely a dangerous candidate in the right seat in the right circumstances.

    B&S is perfect for him, a combination of angry Asian men and angry white men. Galloway manages to play different tunes to both whilst not sounding contradictory.

    I expect him to come second. My only note of concern is that there's been a few things with him where Heavy Woollen types appear to be on board. How you combine "Palestine is our issue" with "I'm sick of being called a racist cos I don't like foreigners" I don't know but he does it.
    Especially somewhere where a Lancastrian is a foreigner.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”

    "with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube".

    Fantastic lack of self-awareness. I bet they would have been all NIMBY about those initial rail and (overground) Tube developments they now laud....
    Dictionary definition NIMBYism. I live here and I am prepared to pay dollah to stop other people also living here.

    Is that not an acceptable strategy? A line has to be drawn somewhere - the existing planning framework means build and build and build and build only to be told you aren't building enough. And the new laws were going to make it easier to build!

    Up here there is plenty of house building going on. But it is a combination of individual projects and pockets of developments on the edges of villages. They don't change the fundamental nature of the place or the environment unlike so many of the godawful developments we were trying to stop in Stockton. It isn't "don't build", it is "think what you build and where you build it".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104
    edited June 2021
    ydoethur said:

    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”

    "with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube".

    Fantastic lack of self-awareness. I bet they would have been all NIMBY about those initial rail and (overground) Tube developments they now laud....
    When the original London and Birmingham railway was debated in the Lords, one landowner along the root accused Robert Stephenson of being a revolutionary. ‘By Gad! It will mean the destruction of the noblesse!’

    The offer for his land was upped by 75% and at that point he shut up.
    Noblesse obliged.

    (I see MM was rather quicker.)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think George Galloway has a chance of actually winning in Batley & Spen?

    If that Dan Hodges article is half true, it sounds horrifically toxic in Batley & Spen. Literal whipping up of anti semitism to get the Muslim vote. What a disaster
    Canvassing outside Jamia Masjid in Heckmondwike on Friday, the Labour candidate in the Batley and Spen byelection, Kim Leadbeater, received a hostile reception from voters who are unhappy with the party’s stance on foreign policy issues such as Palestine and Kashmir, amid a perception that the party takes some forms of racism more seriously than others.

    The accusation “you’ve taken our votes for granted” was repeatedly levelled at Leadbeater and Lisa Nandy, the shadow foreign secretary and Wigan MP, who joined her on the campaign trail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/20/muslims-keir-starmer-leaves-batley-voters-disaffected-labour
    If elections in England are going to be decided by being able to deter Muslims from voting for a because it’s leaders wife is Jewish, can anyone really say we are becoming a tolerant society? It’s incredible to think this might even be true
    Paul Mason was arguing Muslims should vote Labour because otherwise the BJP-aligned Tories would win… and that since the BJP are oppressing Muslims that should be unconscionable
    It does sound like there’s a lot of unofficial but quite nasty sectarian campaigning going on in B&S, mostly via social media and text message chains.

    Not really the sort of thing we want to see in the UK, with ‘friends of Mr Galloway’ most likely to be behind it.
    It’s more worrying that the New Statesman was comfortable with the BJP argument for voting Labour
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,748
    edited June 2021
    Charles said:

    moonshine said:

    How much has China paid Stanley Johnson? Walking talking China propaganda machine.

    Stanley Johnson: The West needs to work with China to save the planet

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y76LkU0KsUU

    Pretty clear this PM is personally compromised on China. Everyone talks about Rishi or Truss or Patel as next leader but if I had a vote I’d want to give it to Tugenhardt.
    Link?
    The number of Johnson family business links into China.

    Edit:
    For example: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/meet-chinas-best-british-friends-the-johnson-clan-rhz2rgdm6
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited June 2021
    A lot of cracks appearing which should start giving SKS a foothold. The next few months should give us an idea whether he has the imagination and ability to take Labour forward.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ex-test-and-trace-chief-dido-harding-has-applied-to-run-nh_uk_60cb72c6e4b0a48ee253345d
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think George Galloway has a chance of actually winning in Batley & Spen?

    Maybe not of winning, but certainly of coming second.
    Con 40%
    GG 25%
    Lab 20%
    Sounds plausible, from reports on the ground - and will give Starmer nightmares if it happens.
    The idea of Goaway winning is horrifying. But he has done it before and is definitely a dangerous candidate in the right seat in the right circumstances.

    B&S is perfect for him, a combination of angry Asian men and angry white men. Galloway manages to play different tunes to both whilst not sounding contradictory.

    I expect him to come second. My only note of concern is that there's been a few things with him where Heavy Woollen types appear to be on board. How you combine "Palestine is our issue" with "I'm sick of being called a racist cos I don't like foreigners" I don't know but he does it.
    Especially somewhere where a Lancastrian is a foreigner.
    Indeed. My personal highlight of the 2019 local elections campaign was the 3am facebook rant by his eminence the Mayor for Life of Thornaby that me and mine weren't from Thornaby, would never get Thornaby, and would do better going back to Rochdale.

    He did of course defeat me by a wide margin. You always get the correct election result and as I point out to people, you get what you vote for especially at council level. In neighbouring Ingleby Barwick (or "South Thornaby" as the Mayor describes it) they voted in a controversial local independent who claimed bad weather was God's punishment for Gay marriage.

    I hope they are all very happy :)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,579
    Charles said:

    When “ringfenced” becomes “earmarked”

    I've just read the SNP statement on the missing £666,953

    In summary, it says that they spend any ringfenced money on what they like, but keep a tab running of how much is due.

    There is no cash to back-up that tab - it relies on future income.

    Isn't that what a Ponzi Scheme is?


    https://twitter.com/RankinPeter/status/1406537724534874114?s=20

    That’s not the way restricted funds are accounted for
    The Father Ted school of "resting in my account".

    Question: would you want the SNP controlling your personal finances?

    No? Just your country's finances then.....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,794
    F1: Betfair has Verstappen/Red Bull as favourites (1.92, 1.7 respectively). I think that's correct. The French Grand Prix was reckoned to be good for Mercedes but they ended up 2nd and 4th. Ok, that was with inferior strategy, but still.

    Now Perez is up to speed I think they have an excellent chance of that title. The Hamilton-Verstappen duel should be closer.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,528
    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think George Galloway has a chance of actually winning in Batley & Spen?

    I don't. There's a big mismatch between the only poll so far and the articles by Hodges and Jones. They tell a similar story so can't be dismissed as purely anecdotal, but both focus on the Muslim slice of the electorate, who I believe are around 20%. For all his rhetoric, I think WWC voters will see Galloway as an alien twat. Moreover, journalists tend to pick out the people who fit the story (people saying "Oh, I dunno, same as usual I suppose" don't make good copy), and they don't usually ask as rigorously as pollsters how the interviewee voted last time. My guess is that he'll save his deposit, and get up to 10%.

    But it's hard to be sure in by-election dynamics! Gulp.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,405
    Roger said:

    A lot of cracks appearing which should start giving SKS a foothold. The next few months should give us an idea whether he has the imagination and ability to take Labour forward.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ex-test-and-trace-chief-dido-harding-has-applied-to-run-nh_uk_60cb72c6e4b0a48ee253345d

    funniest post of the day so far Roger

    whats he going to use for a personality ?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,786

    Fenman said:

    IanB2 said:

    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”

    "with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube".

    Fantastic lack of self-awareness. I bet they would have been all NIMBY about those initial rail and (overground) Tube developments they now laud....
    As would those people living along the high speed sections of the metropolitan line, watching the fast Amersham trains speed by their homes?
    I think you will find that the Metropolitan line was their before them. That was the point.
    Ah yes, good old NODAMs. No Development After Mine. My village is full of them.
    I thought the preferred planning acronym these days was BANANA - Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anybody.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Fenman said:

    IanB2 said:

    An educated voter writes to The Times:

    “I have been an Amersham resident for more than 35 years and can say without reservation that the government’s proposed reform of planning laws is the overriding reason for the switch to the Lib Dems (“Lib Dem surge could snatch 23 prime seats from the Tories after Chesham & Amersham win”, News, Jun 19). By contrast, most local people doubt that this shift would affect HS2 at this late stage — tunnels and access development have been under way for over a year next to Amersham, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

    Property in the area is expensive (nearby Beaconsfield is one of the most expensive towns in the UK). People pay several times the national average property price to stay in and near an area of outstanding natural beauty with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube. If Conservative planning reforms proceed then we can expect a similar switch to the Lib Dems in future local and county council elections.”

    "with amazing local scenery and with an easy commute to London by rail and Tube".

    Fantastic lack of self-awareness. I bet they would have been all NIMBY about those initial rail and (overground) Tube developments they now laud....
    As would those people living along the high speed sections of the metropolitan line, watching the fast Amersham trains speed by their homes?
    I think you will find that the Metropolitan line was their before them. That was the point.
    Ah yes, good old NODAMs. No Development After Mine. My village is full of them.
    I thought the preferred planning acronym these days was BANANA - Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anybody.
    Doing that while supporting free movement is Bananas in Pyjamas

    Prefer Young Jobseekers Available at Moderate Allowances.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,518
    edited June 2021
    I think it is a little more complicated than Mike Smithson suggests. If the thesis is broadly correct then pile cash on the Tories gaining Bootle and Liverpool Walton - high levels of 'no qualifications', tiny levels of 'graduate or equivalent'. Two of the safest Labour seats in the UK.

    Arundel and South Downs obviously about to fall to the LDs??

    It is also very easy to fall into an unconscious bias of thinking there is something a bit odd about places with fewer graduates etc. Non graduate doesn't mean a bit thick, just as WWC doesn't mean racist troglodyte.
This discussion has been closed.