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One thing we thankfully haven’t seen in the UK – a political divide on being vaccinated – politicalb

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited June 2021 in General
imageOne thing we thankfully haven’t seen in the UK – a political divide on being vaccinated – politicalbetting.com

I have just discovered this polling from a few days back on vaccination take-up in the US which I find to be quite remarkable.

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,811
    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,189
    2nd and suspicious...
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    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    FPT: Trinity College has more Nobel Laureates than Oxf*rd.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    Who doesn't love a good 'UK better than USA' header?

    That was rhetorical, american PBers.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,999
    Note a fifth of Independents won't get vaccinated either and 5% of Democrats.

    The 29% of Republicans who won't get vaccinated will be the type in the South and West Virginia etc who are diehard Trumpers and don't trust the Federal Government on anything
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    Get vaccinated, people!
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,668
    FPT:

    For insomniacs:

    Polls have now closed throughout the Chesham and Amersham constituency and seven council seats across England and Scotland.

    But what about an election night show?

    http://twitch.tv/britainelects from 11pm. By-elections and boundary changes.


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1405631365882814469?s=20
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2021
    Interesting info about level of antibodies in US in John Campbell video today....in basic terms they have had a good go at herd immunity before the vaccinations.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,379
    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    The places with the highest concentrations of tourists....
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,432
    On topic, I did point out that via a Darwinian process the GOP might be handing the 2024 Presidential election to the Dems thanks to their antivax beliefs.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/04/19/we-need-to-talk-about-antivaxxer-gopers/
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    What time are we expecting the result from C&A? I’m three hours ahead of most of you, and thinking to set the alarm for 7am.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,164

    An indescribably moving thread, on Twitter, as people discover dead lovers, parents, pets, still alive on Google streetview

    https://twitter.com/dindata/status/1405528759877308416?s=21


    This has made me weep. Not denying it
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,432
    Tabman said:

    FPT: Trinity College has more Nobel Laureates than Oxf*rd.

    Not quite, I think they have something like 35 to the dump's 54.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,294

    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    The places with the highest concentrations of tourists....
    And media centres for G7
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,378
    edited June 2021
    Tabman said:

    FPT: Trinity College has more Nobel Laureates than Oxf*rd.

    Trinity has taken 22 students from Westminster School, which apparently is some sort of record for a single college/school pairing.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/revealed-link-westminster-school-cambridge/ (£££)
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    I wonder if these numbers would change if people realised that in the long-term the choice is not really between vaccinated and unvaccinated, but between vaccinated and natural immunity because eventually the virus will find you.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,078
    The comparative figures for the UK are very different. There has been little political divide in people’s approach to the jab.

    Depends what you mean by that.

    Given Labour voters are younger, more urban and more BAME then its almost certain that a far lower proportion of Labour voters will get vaccinated than Conservative.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    Variant Delta might swing the next election further Biden and Harris' way on those numbers.
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,770
    GB News can't be all bad, they use the Met Office for their weather forecasts
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,378
    The Telegraph has two, count 'em, two articles on how Dominic Cummings is a right ****.

    The Dominic Cummings I knew at university should never have been handed the reins of power
    As a student he was argumentative, awkward and arrogant - it isn't much of a surprise to see him throwing his toys out of the pram now

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/dominic-cummings-knew-university-should-never-have-handed-reins/ (£££)

    ‘There’s nothing worse than unpredictability’: Was Dominic Cummings unfit to lead from the start?
    A maverick who marched to the beat of his own drum was never going to be a calm leader in a crisis

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/nothing-worse-unpredictability-dominic-cummings-unfit-lead-start/ (£££)
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,378
    Chesham & Amersham now the polls have closed.
    Conservative 1.15
    LibDem 6.6
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    glw said:

    I wonder if these numbers would change if people realised that in the long-term the choice is not really between vaccinated and unvaccinated, but between vaccinated and natural immunity because eventually the virus will find you.

    Alas, the idea that COVID is just another flu-type illness is still pretty common in vaccine-hesitant areas in the US. The other factor is the faux-religious "well, if it's my time, it's my time" fatalism of a lot of the evangelical Christians, including (from my wife's experience) among educate healthcare staff.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,078

    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    The places with the highest concentrations of tourists....
    But there don't seem to be many other seaside towns affected.

    Another notable thing is that the hotspots in Leeds and maybe Durham and Liverpool are in student areas.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,434

    The Telegraph has two, count 'em, two articles on how Dominic Cummings is a right ****.

    The Dominic Cummings I knew at university should never have been handed the reins of power
    As a student he was argumentative, awkward and arrogant - it isn't much of a surprise to see him throwing his toys out of the pram now

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/dominic-cummings-knew-university-should-never-have-handed-reins/ (£££)

    ‘There’s nothing worse than unpredictability’: Was Dominic Cummings unfit to lead from the start?
    A maverick who marched to the beat of his own drum was never going to be a calm leader in a crisis

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/nothing-worse-unpredictability-dominic-cummings-unfit-lead-start/ (£££)

    Given his part in delivering Brexit and PMBoJo, seems more than a little ungrateful.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    Of course when Biden is re-elected because a third of the GOP vote is dead the remaining Trump mob will blame Bill Gates because he invented a vaccine that only saved Dem voters.

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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    Tabman said:

    FPT: Trinity College has more Nobel Laureates than Oxf*rd.

    Trinity has taken 22 students from Westminster School, which apparently is some sort of record for a single college/school pairing.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/revealed-link-westminster-school-cambridge/ (£££)
    They should be limited by law to taking no more than 7% from private schools.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Tabman said:

    FPT: Trinity College has more Nobel Laureates than Oxf*rd.

    While true, that's because Trinity College (my old alum) has the money to hire people who have either recieved their Nobel prize, or have done work already that is likely to lead to a Nobel.
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,191
    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,446
    Sandpit said:

    What time are we expecting the result from C&A? I’m three hours ahead of most of you, and thinking to set the alarm for 7am.

    If you're three hours ahead, could you let us know when you find out - save us having to wait :smile:
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216

    The Telegraph has two, count 'em, two articles on how Dominic Cummings is a right ****.

    The Dominic Cummings I knew at university should never have been handed the reins of power
    As a student he was argumentative, awkward and arrogant - it isn't much of a surprise to see him throwing his toys out of the pram now

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/dominic-cummings-knew-university-should-never-have-handed-reins/ (£££)

    ‘There’s nothing worse than unpredictability’: Was Dominic Cummings unfit to lead from the start?
    A maverick who marched to the beat of his own drum was never going to be a calm leader in a crisis

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/nothing-worse-unpredictability-dominic-cummings-unfit-lead-start/ (£££)

    Given his part in delivering Brexit and PMBoJo, seems more than a little ungrateful.
    Jeez, it's like when two drug smuggling partners fall out after years of working the game together in an episode of Narcos.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Sandpit said:

    Get vaccinated, people!

    So long as it's not SinoVac.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Fucks sake those 20ish year olds reckon getting Covid (Unvaxxed) will be like the "common cold" and they "don't know what the vaccine will do" (BBC News at 10, 20:22).

    Playing russian roulette with their health lol
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,078
    Are there any GOP politicians who are open anti-vaxxers ?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    HYUFD said:

    Note a fifth of Independents won't get vaccinated either and 5% of Democrats.

    The 29% of Republicans who won't get vaccinated will be the type in the South and West Virginia etc who are diehard Trumpers and don't trust the Federal Government on anything

    Only one film clip is appropriate:

    https://youtu.be/KHJbSvidohg
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,999

    Tabman said:

    FPT: Trinity College has more Nobel Laureates than Oxf*rd.

    Trinity has taken 22 students from Westminster School, which apparently is some sort of record for a single college/school pairing.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/revealed-link-westminster-school-cambridge/ (£££)
    They should be limited by law to taking no more than 7% from private schools.
    Given over a third of A grade A levels come from private schools they shouldn't.

    Though 70% of Cambridge students and 68% of Oxford students are now state educated

    https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-09-03/proportion-of-state-school-pupils-at-cambridge-reaches-record-high
    https://cherwell.org/2021/05/11/oxford-university-state-school-admission-intake-reaches-record-high-of-68-6/#:~:text=The data broadly suggests an,admitted between 2016 and 2020.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Pulpstar said:

    Fucks sake those 20ish year olds reckon getting Covid (Unvaxxed) will be like the "common cold" and they "don't know what the vaccine will do" (BBC News at 10, 20:22).

    Playing russian roulette with their health lol

    And everybody elses....
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,811

    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    The places with the highest concentrations of tourists....
    Yes, but doesn't seem to hold for smaller coastal towns elsewhere relative to their hinterlands, e.g. barely a coastal case from Torquay to Swanage. The three Cornish resorts stick out like sore thumbs, even amongst SW's rapidly rising rates.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,446
    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    Concentrations of youth. And seasonal workers. And young seasonal workers.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,078
    Pulpstar said:

    Fucks sake those 20ish year olds reckon getting Covid (Unvaxxed) will be like the "common cold" and they "don't know what the vaccine will do" (BBC News at 10, 20:22).

    Playing russian roulette with their health lol

    The problem is they'll know people for whom covid was at most equivalent to having a cold.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    edited June 2021

    The Telegraph has two, count 'em, two articles on how Dominic Cummings is a right ****.

    The Dominic Cummings I knew at university should never have been handed the reins of power
    As a student he was argumentative, awkward and arrogant - it isn't much of a surprise to see him throwing his toys out of the pram now

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/dominic-cummings-knew-university-should-never-have-handed-reins/ (£££)

    ‘There’s nothing worse than unpredictability’: Was Dominic Cummings unfit to lead from the start?
    A maverick who marched to the beat of his own drum was never going to be a calm leader in a crisis

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/nothing-worse-unpredictability-dominic-cummings-unfit-lead-start/ (£££)

    Given his part in delivering Brexit and PMBoJo, seems more than a little ungrateful.
    I cannot see the main articles, but from the headlines I don't know that that is ungrateful - his contributions to those things may well have been positive (though I thought it was supposed to be Isaac Levido who was key to delivering PM Bojo), but the headlines there are criticising his argumentativeness and arrogance, and lack of calm in a crisis, which can be true regardless of whether he did a great job on Brexit or indeed even on these latest issues.

    Indeed, people argue about how smart he is and how useful, with some thinking he is very good, but the question on that second one is about fitness to lead, which is quite distinct from whether he is smart or effective at other things.

    Some people aren't leaders of men (and women). And given some of his comments he might agree that that is not where his strengths are.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,432

    Tabman said:

    FPT: Trinity College has more Nobel Laureates than Oxf*rd.

    Trinity has taken 22 students from Westminster School, which apparently is some sort of record for a single college/school pairing.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/revealed-link-westminster-school-cambridge/ (£££)
    They should be limited by law to taking no more than 7% from private schools.
    Talk about lowering standards.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,078

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    Well why were you in the pub then ?

    Perhaps you should be cowering at home while yearning for higher infection numbers.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Worth noting that Paul Pogba was sat with a non alcoholic beer. Pretty sure there’s nothing in the Quran about not drinking warm piss.

    Of course if Ronaldo wants to drink water he should try Dasani from Coca Cola.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    edited June 2021
    Cookie said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    Concentrations of youth. And seasonal workers. And young seasonal workers.
    But Ibiza is going to be just fine, definitely no covid outbreak there, as all the unvaccinated young of Europe decend on a few massive nightclubs.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    Well why were you in the pub then ?

    Perhaps you should be cowering at home while yearning for higher infection numbers.
    And what have masks got to do with another lockdown?
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,446
    Cookie said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    Concentrations of youth. And seasonal workers. And young seasonal workers.
    Note there is a university in Falmouth.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,999
    edited June 2021
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    Well why were you in the pub then ?

    Perhaps you should be cowering at home while yearning for higher infection numbers.
    Because he's the London pub man
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Brom said:

    Worth noting that Paul Pogba was sat with a non alcoholic beer. Pretty sure there’s nothing in the Quran about not drinking warm piss.

    Of course if Ronaldo wants to drink water he should try Dasani from Coca Cola.

    Pogba's fully signed up for Pepsi. All over my bottles of Max.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629

    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    The places with the highest concentrations of tourists....
    But there don't seem to be many other seaside towns affected.

    Another notable thing is that the hotspots in Leeds and maybe Durham and Liverpool are in student areas.
    Students have finished for the summer surely?
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,078
    Does anyone know the difference in vaccination rates between those previously infected and those not previously infected ?

    All the people I know who had been infected or suspected they had been infected were keen to get vaccinated.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    Concentrations of youth. And seasonal workers. And young seasonal workers.
    Note there is a university in Falmouth.
    Wasn't the G7 media centre there?
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,078
    Foxy said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    The places with the highest concentrations of tourists....
    But there don't seem to be many other seaside towns affected.

    Another notable thing is that the hotspots in Leeds and maybe Durham and Liverpool are in student areas.
    Students have finished for the summer surely?
    They finish at the end of June don't they in normal times ?

    How many would be there this year is another matter.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,189
    Foxy said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    The places with the highest concentrations of tourists....
    But there don't seem to be many other seaside towns affected.

    Another notable thing is that the hotspots in Leeds and maybe Durham and Liverpool are in student areas.
    Students have finished for the summer surely?
    I keep saying this but no ones listening... pretty sure most unis did online assessment so students have been home for months.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2021
    #10 showing a bit of leg about earlier unlocking...

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1405637377754796032?s=19
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,191

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    Well why were you in the pub then ?

    Perhaps you should be cowering at home while yearning for higher infection numbers.
    Sensible people like me don't want any cases love ♥️
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,078
    HYUFD said:
    Both of them have been infected though so they're not deniers rather they're making more of a risk/reward judgement.

    I'm looking for politicians who are openly recommending those not previously infected not to be vaccinated.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079

    Foxy said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    The places with the highest concentrations of tourists....
    But there don't seem to be many other seaside towns affected.

    Another notable thing is that the hotspots in Leeds and maybe Durham and Liverpool are in student areas.
    Students have finished for the summer surely?
    I keep saying this but no ones listening... pretty sure most unis did online assessment so students have been home for months.
    Aye but in Newcastle it seems quite a few students have come back to the Toon to make the most of their last few weeks of their student house leases with the pubs being open.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,078

    #10 showing a bit of leg about earlier unlocking...

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1405637377754796032?s=19

    Given Whitty was wittering on about the dangers of covid and flu this winter the sensible thing is to let Delta seep through the country this summer rather than risk a worse variant later on.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,578
    Chesham and Amersham by-election - latest updates throughout the night

    https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/amersham/19381390.chesham-amersham-by-election---latest-updates-throughout-night/

    10:27pm
    Since the Chesham and Amersham seat was created in 1974, there have only ever been TWO MPs.

    The first was Conservative Ian Gilmour, who held the seat from its creation until he retired in 1992. He died in 2007.

    The second was Conservative Dame Cheryl Gillan, who held the seat from 1992 until she tragically passed away in April from cancer.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,078

    Chesham and Amersham by-election - latest updates throughout the night

    https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/amersham/19381390.chesham-amersham-by-election---latest-updates-throughout-night/

    10:27pm
    Since the Chesham and Amersham seat was created in 1974, there have only ever been TWO MPs.

    The first was Conservative Ian Gilmour, who held the seat from its creation until he retired in 1992. He died in 2007.

    The second was Conservative Dame Cheryl Gillan, who held the seat from 1992 until she tragically passed away in April from cancer.

    Is a death from cancer of someone nearly 70 tragic ?

    Sad certainly but its not like a 30 year dying from cancer of anyone getting struck by lightning.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,446

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    *sigh*
    They're not 'soaring'.
    Any sensible look at the graphs by date of infection has them reaching a peak and already declining where they did so first.
    We'll look back in a couple of weeks time and see the peak was, ooh, about the 14th.
    Anyway, presumably your vaxxed by now? So you can afford to take a rather more relaxed view over whether people are marked or not.
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    It is worth thinking about the anti-vaxxers perspective.
    They want to wait a bit to see what happens to those who took the vaccine, if they start dropping dead then perhaps the vaccine is not a good idea.
    The trials and approvals were rushed through in a few months.
    People have died due to blood clots linked to the Astra Zenica vaccine.
    We have no idea at all about long term side effects of the vaccine.
    All this for a disease that 99%+ of people survive.
    There is little evidence on how these vaccines affect things like unborn children.
    There is enormous social pressure to have the vaccine and, by the looks of things, legal compulsion in certain sectors.
    It is totally unprecedented and may feel to some people like the start of some dystopian science fiction film.

    I took the vaccine, personally. But it was something that I thought very carefully about. People should have the right to opt out on the understanding that they are taking their chances with Covid.

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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,984
    I see on the previous thread one poster has luxuriated in trashing the AZ vaccine. On this thread another poster was calling for another lockdown from the pub.


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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    TimT said:

    Alas, the idea that COVID is just another flu-type illness is still pretty common in vaccine-hesitant areas in the US. The other factor is the faux-religious "well, if it's my time, it's my time" fatalism of a lot of the evangelical Christians, including (from my wife's experience) among educate healthcare staff.

    I can't comprehend that attitude at all. 600,000 dead and the deaths are gruesome too, nobody should be blasé about it. And as I said, it's not just dodging the virus now you have to think about, it's not going away, so unless you plan on hiding you are going to be at some risk for the rest of your life, or you know you could just take the safe, effective, and free vaccines.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,984

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    Well why were you in the pub then ?

    Perhaps you should be cowering at home while yearning for higher infection numbers.
    Sensible people like me don't want any cases love ♥️
    The zerocovidians and antivaxxers are becoming indistinguishable from each other.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629

    Foxy said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    FPT re: Cornwall and G7:

    The main hotspots are Falmouth (120 cases across 4 MSOAs, 342 per 100k), St. Ives (63 cases, 482 per 100k) and Newquay (55 cases, 210 per 100k), with pretty low rates elsewhere. Proper hotspots those.

    Make of that what you will.

    The places with the highest concentrations of tourists....
    But there don't seem to be many other seaside towns affected.

    Another notable thing is that the hotspots in Leeds and maybe Durham and Liverpool are in student areas.
    Students have finished for the summer surely?
    I keep saying this but no ones listening... pretty sure most unis did online assessment so students have been home for months.
    Fox jr2 stayed in London, even though course was online, and not the only one of his mates to do so. Who wants to live with their parents when 20?

    Incidentally had his first jab today.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607


    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Looks like countries that primarily used Pfizer will have the best outcomes . Clearly it’s a superior vaccine to AZ especially against the Delta variant.

    It's hard for a layman to judge, but particularly given the cold storage issue has been dealt with the Pfizer vaccine really does seem to have been a mighty achievement, and it was first out of the gate to boot.
    And it looks like a technology which is very easy to adapt to other problems, and produce in huge quantities using the network Europe has developed. Whereas the OAZ vaccine is the swansong of a more traditional approach. The last great steam engine, when someone else has developed an electric TGV.

    And whilst the OAZ vaccine combined remarkable cleverness and humanity, that doesn't excuse the sales-production mismatch, or not doing trials in a way that ensured quick approval.
    While that might be true to some degree mRNA doesn't look like an easy technology to work with. The CureVac vaccine has got just 47% efficacy which is pretty poor, even the single dose J&J vaccine gets about 67% on the same measure whole AZ is about 85% with two doses at an 8 week gap and both of those use Adenovirus vectors. Novavax with viral proteins+adjuvant gets to 97% efficacy after two doses.

    To me it looks like Moderna and BioNTech/Pfizer are extremely good vaccines that have leveraged a novel technology. Novavax is second best in terms of antibody response and AZ is best in terms of its t-cell response. I think there is room in the market for all 5 of them (Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, AZ and Novavax) each targeting a different part of the market. AZ for people aged 60+ looks like a slam dunk to me as it gets a good antibody response, doesn't have any side effects in the old and it seems to give very, very good long term immunity with t-cells. I think Moderna and Pfizer make sense in the young where you want a faster acting vaccine which will reduce spread and Novavax needs to be approved so we can see what real world efficacy is like rather than modelling it from trial data and antibody prevalence but in the early data it seems to do very well against variants.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    edited June 2021

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    Well why were you in the pub then ?

    Perhaps you should be cowering at home while yearning for higher infection numbers.
    And what have masks got to do with another lockdown?
    And how do you drink beer with a mask on?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    No one's forcing you to go to the pub.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    Well why were you in the pub then ?

    Perhaps you should be cowering at home while yearning for higher infection numbers.
    And what have masks got to do with another lockdown?
    And how do you drink beer with a mask on?
    A straw?
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,191
    Cookie said:

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    *sigh*
    They're not 'soaring'.
    Any sensible look at the graphs by date of infection has them reaching a peak and already declining where they did so first.
    We'll look back in a couple of weeks time and see the peak was, ooh, about the 14th.
    Anyway, presumably your vaxxed by now? So you can afford to take a rather more relaxed view over whether people are marked or not.
    Or we will look back in end June and see hospitalisations up to 500 a day...
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629

    #10 showing a bit of leg about earlier unlocking...

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1405637377754796032?s=19

    Showing leg? It's like the bloody travel hokey-cokey. Just make a decision and stick to it!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    darkage said:

    It is worth thinking about the anti-vaxxers perspective.
    They want to wait a bit to see what happens to those who took the vaccine, if they start dropping dead then perhaps the vaccine is not a good idea.
    The trials and approvals were rushed through in a few months.
    People have died due to blood clots linked to the Astra Zenica vaccine.
    We have no idea at all about long term side effects of the vaccine.
    All this for a disease that 99%+ of people survive.
    There is little evidence on how these vaccines affect things like unborn children.
    There is enormous social pressure to have the vaccine and, by the looks of things, legal compulsion in certain sectors.
    It is totally unprecedented and may feel to some people like the start of some dystopian science fiction film.

    I took the vaccine, personally. But it was something that I thought very carefully about. People should have the right to opt out on the understanding that they are taking their chances with Covid.

    My best mate and I were having a conversation based on all those points yesterday... and we have both had the jab! I feel like an atheist who goes to church
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,191

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    Well why were you in the pub then ?

    Perhaps you should be cowering at home while yearning for higher infection numbers.
    Sensible people like me don't want any cases love ♥️
    The zerocovidians and antivaxxers are becoming indistinguishable from each other.
    Hope you have had your vaccine. Let's all be careful out there!
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    HYUFD said:

    Tabman said:

    FPT: Trinity College has more Nobel Laureates than Oxf*rd.

    Trinity has taken 22 students from Westminster School, which apparently is some sort of record for a single college/school pairing.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/revealed-link-westminster-school-cambridge/ (£££)
    They should be limited by law to taking no more than 7% from private schools.
    Given over a third of A grade A levels come from private schools they shouldn't.

    Though 70% of Cambridge students and 68% of Oxford students are now state educated

    https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-09-03/proportion-of-state-school-pupils-at-cambridge-reaches-record-high
    https://cherwell.org/2021/05/11/oxford-university-state-school-admission-intake-reaches-record-high-of-68-6/#:~:text=The data broadly suggests an,admitted between 2016 and 2020.
    Not a fan of equal opportunity then @HYUFD?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,432
    edited June 2021
    OH FFS.

    From the front page of The Times.

    The government is going to let UEFA let in thousands of people into the UK for the Euros without having to quarantine.


  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    MaxPB said:

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    Well why were you in the pub then ?

    Perhaps you should be cowering at home while yearning for higher infection numbers.
    And what have masks got to do with another lockdown?
    And how do you drink beer with a mask on?
    A straw?
    What? Your mask has a hole in it?
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,984

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    Well why were you in the pub then ?

    Perhaps you should be cowering at home while yearning for higher infection numbers.
    Sensible people like me don't want any cases love ♥️
    The zerocovidians and antivaxxers are becoming indistinguishable from each other.
    Hope you have had your vaccine. Let's all be careful out there!
    Yes, I’ve had both jabs.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    Tabman said:

    FPT: Trinity College has more Nobel Laureates than Oxf*rd.

    Trinity has taken 22 students from Westminster School, which apparently is some sort of record for a single college/school pairing.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/revealed-link-westminster-school-cambridge/ (£££)
    They should be limited by law to taking no more than 7% from private schools.
    Why?

    Surely they should get the best, most able, students they can, irrespective of their background.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,999

    HYUFD said:

    Tabman said:

    FPT: Trinity College has more Nobel Laureates than Oxf*rd.

    Trinity has taken 22 students from Westminster School, which apparently is some sort of record for a single college/school pairing.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/revealed-link-westminster-school-cambridge/ (£££)
    They should be limited by law to taking no more than 7% from private schools.
    Given over a third of A grade A levels come from private schools they shouldn't.

    Though 70% of Cambridge students and 68% of Oxford students are now state educated

    https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-09-03/proportion-of-state-school-pupils-at-cambridge-reaches-record-high
    https://cherwell.org/2021/05/11/oxford-university-state-school-admission-intake-reaches-record-high-of-68-6/#:~:text=The data broadly suggests an,admitted between 2016 and 2020.
    Not a fan of equal opportunity then @HYUFD?
    Yes I am, just not a fan of equality of outcome.

    The percentage of state school pupils at Oxbridge is now about right ie 2/3, the same as the percentage of top A grade A Levels that go to state school pupils
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    edited June 2021
    We have no idea at all about long term side effects of the vaccine.
    All this for a disease that 99%+ of people survive.

    This is the disconnect I don't understand - long covid is a VERY VERY real. Around 7% of kids get it (Figures from ITV) - it'll be just as high in adults, and the older & more unfit you are the more likely an adverse outcome becomes...
    "Long term side effects of the vaccine" - I don't know a single person with any side effects other than feeling ropey for a few days; there simply don't look to be any. We'd have heard tales relating to adverse birth/obstretric outcomes from the USA if there were any; btw evidence is emerging Covid can knock your sperm count lower...
    The shear volume of adverse outcomes from Covid is astounding, I heard on the radio about a surgeon who is incontinent now because covid has shot the nerve endings in his bladder. The tales are long and plentiful and people are NOT making it up.

    Why is the bar for Covid set at survival and the bar for vaccination set so much higher. It's very very transmissible, unless you're planning on living like a hermit for the next 50 years you WILL encounter it. Why on earth would you not want to get the very best protection that vaccination offers compared to encountering Covid as a novel virus ?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,578
    Strolling out of the poll site this evening, civic duty done, the Chesham and Amersham voter & patron is a vision of traditional yet trendy tailoring. Wearing the proper outfit for the electoral occasion, with stylish accessories highlighting both old-fashioned quality and cutting-edge fashion.

    Chesham and Amersham - Serving Discerning Electors since 1974
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,984

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    Well why were you in the pub then ?

    Perhaps you should be cowering at home while yearning for higher infection numbers.
    Sensible people like me don't want any cases love ♥️
    The zerocovidians and antivaxxers are becoming indistinguishable from each other.
    Hope you have had your vaccine. Let's all be careful out there!
    Yes, I’ve had both jabs. The vaccines work. And zerocovid is sheer fantasy.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    OH FFS.

    From the front page of The Times.


    That's not much of a threat - people like football, but they're not going to be up in arms about it going somewhere else if the reason is as given, since it comes across as typical UEFA prima donna demands.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    rcs1000 said:

    Tabman said:

    FPT: Trinity College has more Nobel Laureates than Oxf*rd.

    Trinity has taken 22 students from Westminster School, which apparently is some sort of record for a single college/school pairing.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/revealed-link-westminster-school-cambridge/ (£££)
    They should be limited by law to taking no more than 7% from private schools.
    Why?

    Surely they should get the best, most able, students they can, irrespective of their background.
    No, they should take the students with the best potential.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,432
    kle4 said:

    OH FFS.

    From the front page of The Times.


    That's not much of a threat - people like football, but they're not going to be up in arms about it going somewhere else if the reason is as given, since it comes across as typical UEFA prima donna demands.
    Looks like the government is kowtowing to UEFA's demands.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    OH FFS.

    From the front page of The Times.

    The government is going to let UEFA let in thousands of people into the UK for the Euros without having to quarantine.


    Let's be honest the atmosphere in a full Puskas arena in Hungary will be miles better than Wembley with 30,000 or whatever.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,173

    Chesham and Amersham by-election - latest updates throughout the night

    https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/amersham/19381390.chesham-amersham-by-election---latest-updates-throughout-night/

    10:27pm
    Since the Chesham and Amersham seat was created in 1974, there have only ever been TWO MPs.

    The first was Conservative Ian Gilmour, who held the seat from its creation until he retired in 1992. He died in 2007.

    The second was Conservative Dame Cheryl Gillan, who held the seat from 1992 until she tragically passed away in April from cancer.

    Is a death from cancer of someone nearly 70 tragic ?

    Sad certainly but its not like a 30 year dying from cancer of anyone getting struck by lightning.
    I’m sure to her, her friends and family it is.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,578
    kle4 said:

    OH FFS.

    From the front page of The Times.


    That's not much of a threat - people like football, but they're not going to be up in arms about it going somewhere else if the reason is as given, since it comes across as typical UEFA prima donna demands.
    Tell 'em UK will waive the COVID test but NOT the Wasserman.
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,191

    Given that cases are soaring do we need another lockdown, now?

    I was in the pub earlier with other old people and we didn't like it if someone didn't have a mask.

    Well why were you in the pub then ?

    Perhaps you should be cowering at home while yearning for higher infection numbers.
    Sensible people like me don't want any cases love ♥️
    The zerocovidians and antivaxxers are becoming indistinguishable from each other.
    Hope you have had your vaccine. Let's all be careful out there!
    Yes, I’ve had both jabs.
    Jolly good. Make sure you wear a mask though cos it's good to minimise your risk and I care about your welfare 👍
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Tabman said:

    FPT: Trinity College has more Nobel Laureates than Oxf*rd.

    Trinity has taken 22 students from Westminster School, which apparently is some sort of record for a single college/school pairing.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/17/revealed-link-westminster-school-cambridge/ (£££)
    They should be limited by law to taking no more than 7% from private schools.
    Why?

    Surely they should get the best, most able, students they can, irrespective of their background.
    No, they should take the students with the best potential.
    And no more than 7% from private schools achieves that somehow?

    I'm hardly enamoured of private schools and private school dominance, I just don't know how one measures 'the best potential'.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    Pulpstar said:

    We have no idea at all about long term side effects of the vaccine.
    All this for a disease that 99%+ of people survive.

    This is the disconnect I don't understand - long covid is a VERY VERY real. Around 7% of kids get it (Figures from ITV) - it'll be just as high in adults, and the older & more unfit you are the more likely an adverse outcome becomes...
    "Long term side effects of the vaccine" - I don't know a single person with any side effects other than feeling ropey for a few days; there simply don't look to be any. We'd have heard tales relating to adverse birth/obstretric outcomes from the USA if there were any; btw evidence is emerging Covid can knock your sperm count lower...
    The shear volume of adverse outcomes from Covid is astounding, I heard on the radio about a surgeon who is incontinent now because covid has shot the nerve endings in his bladder. The tales are long and plentiful and people are NOT making it up.

    Why is the bar for Covid set at survival and the bar for vaccination set so much higher. It's very very transmissible, unless you're planning on living like a hermit for the next 50 years you WILL encounter it. Why on earth would you not want to get the very best protection that vaccination offers compared to encountering Covid as a novel virus ?

    It does seem particularly crazy that anti-vaxxers don't want synthetic mRNA in their body, but completely relaxed about getting Delta virus mRNA in uncontrolled doses instead.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,984
    The Mail’s splash about opening up on 5 July seems badly timed given the week on week positive tests rate ticked up today for the first time in a week.

    It’s possible that ministers have spotted the regional trends that show positive tests peaking before tailing off, but I doubt it.

    Probably very badly timed guff by the Mail. Ignore.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,578
    C&A Count:

    Little more activity as the first ballot boxes have arrived for the #CheshamAndAmersham by-election and the counting begins. It’s a hot and stuffy night and things are likely to get even more heated here 🥵 Stay with
    @bucksfreepress 10.53 pm BST
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,191
    Pulpstar said:

    We have no idea at all about long term side effects of the vaccine.
    All this for a disease that 99%+ of people survive.

    This is the disconnect I don't understand - long covid is a VERY VERY real. Around 7% of kids get it (Figures from ITV) - it'll be just as high in adults, and the older & more unfit you are the more likely an adverse outcome becomes...
    "Long term side effects of the vaccine" - I don't know a single person with any side effects other than feeling ropey for a few days; there simply don't look to be any. We'd have heard tales relating to adverse birth/obstretric outcomes from the USA if there were any; btw evidence is emerging Covid can knock your sperm count lower...
    The shear volume of adverse outcomes from Covid is astounding, I heard on the radio about a surgeon who is incontinent now because covid has shot the nerve endings in his bladder. The tales are long and plentiful and people are NOT making it up.

    Why is the bar for Covid set at survival and the bar for vaccination set so much higher. It's very very transmissible, unless you're planning on living like a hermit for the next 50 years you WILL encounter it. Why on earth would you not want to get the very best protection that vaccination offers compared to encountering Covid as a novel virus ?

    Indeed. COVID is really real. I am glad you appreciated the risk. There appear to be lots of people on here who don't get this.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Pulpstar said:

    OH FFS.

    From the front page of The Times.

    The government is going to let UEFA let in thousands of people into the UK for the Euros without having to quarantine.


    Let's be honest the atmosphere in a full Puskas arena in Hungary will be miles better than Wembley with 30,000 or whatever.
    I think the final is set to be a full capacity test event with all 90k in the crowd. I'm sure if England make it to a semi them that would be as well.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    edited June 2021
    MaxPB said:


    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Looks like countries that primarily used Pfizer will have the best outcomes . Clearly it’s a superior vaccine to AZ especially against the Delta variant.

    It's hard for a layman to judge, but particularly given the cold storage issue has been dealt with the Pfizer vaccine really does seem to have been a mighty achievement, and it was first out of the gate to boot.
    And it looks like a technology which is very easy to adapt to other problems, and produce in huge quantities using the network Europe has developed. Whereas the OAZ vaccine is the swansong of a more traditional approach. The last great steam engine, when someone else has developed an electric TGV.

    And whilst the OAZ vaccine combined remarkable cleverness and humanity, that doesn't excuse the sales-production mismatch, or not doing trials in a way that ensured quick approval.
    While that might be true to some degree mRNA doesn't look like an easy technology to work with. The CureVac vaccine has got just 47% efficacy which is pretty poor, even the single dose J&J vaccine gets about 67% on the same measure whole AZ is about 85% with two doses at an 8 week gap and both of those use Adenovirus vectors. Novavax with viral proteins+adjuvant gets to 97% efficacy after two doses.

    To me it looks like Moderna and BioNTech/Pfizer are extremely good vaccines that have leveraged a novel technology. Novavax is second best in terms of antibody response and AZ is best in terms of its t-cell response. I think there is room in the market for all 5 of them (Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, AZ and Novavax) each targeting a different part of the market. AZ for people aged 60+ looks like a slam dunk to me as it gets a good antibody response, doesn't have any side effects in the old and it seems to give very, very good long term immunity with t-cells. I think Moderna and Pfizer make sense in the young where you want a faster acting vaccine which will reduce spread and Novavax needs to be approved so we can see what real world efficacy is like rather than modelling it from trial data and antibody prevalence but in the early data it seems to do very well against variants.
    Mix and match is going to be the strongest of all I reckon. I'd leap at the chance for an Astra booster if offered, I'll also be in an eligible category for it (If they keep advice same for boosters) in a few days :D
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,999
    'A source with access to the counting downstairs tells me they've never seen this many Lib Dem votes at a count in #CheshamAndAmersham. Historically the seat has been blue since it was formed in 1974 with the Conservative MP never having a majority lower than 10,000.'
    https://twitter.com/AndyHolmesMedia/status/1405647286458359812?s=20
This discussion has been closed.