Having now watched it, a very good performance by both men, exactly what we should expect from our politicians and interviewers.
Good to see the Chancellor challenged over the costs of the “net zero” pledge, and what that might mean in practice.
The main thing that comes out, is how refreshing it is to hear long-form interviews with senior ministers, rather than seven-minute soundbites characterised by everyone shouting over each other.
If Neil can get an interview or two like this, a minister or opponent every week going forward, his programme (and his new channel) will add an awful lot of positives to the political discourse.
I'm genuinely bored of the "how much will it cost" question. We can't afford x, "how much will it cost". Hang on, how much does not doing x cost? How much of an investment does x represent being pumped into the economy? How many jobs and businesses will thrive by doing x?
If "how much will it cost" was applied generally then nobody would ever spend anything. Business would never invest because "who will pay for it" and "how much does it cost". We used to have this thing called "capitalism". Invest. Benefit from a return on investment greater than the money spent. Rinse. Repeat. As government can borrow at near zero interest and the ROI is jobs, economic groth AND avoiding the costs of killing the environment, surely the pertinent question is how can we not afford it?
I am not at all sure Cummings will have any effect outside the political bubble, not least as he is one of the most discredited people in the country and in a recent poll Hancock poll twice Cummings on trust
His diatribe of hate is sad and of course releasing 'Whats app' messages might be par for the course for him, but they only reveal his utter hatred for Hancock and that Boris uses industrial language. Indeed that us unlikely to do any harm to Boris as thousands, even millions, would have considerable sympathy for a PM facing the worst crisis since WW2 swearing or uttering an oath or two
He strikes me as someone being torn apart by hate and hate in itself does far more damage to the one who hates than the hated.
He seems to want all the attention but at some point his desire will end with him being a very unhappy and unfulfilled person
We are in an odd situation. Good, honest, previously successful businesses dropping like flies, yet Mercedes-Benz Approved Used car stock at an all time low, because they cannot keep up with demand. I kid you not!
Ditto Porsche. Very little in inventory and what there is has amazing price tags.
The new car situation is a little different and long term demand looks weak. I got offered an allocation for a 992 GT3 Touring for 2022 delivery but I couldn't get near a 991 version a few years ago.
That new Touring does look quite lovely. I can’t make the man-maths work on it, sadly.
I'm sure they'll sell but I don't really get it. Manual, so it's no good for a track car. 8,500rpm NA engine with no torque and noisy as fuck (even by 911 standards) so it's not really a very good road car. The 991 GT3 Touring existed only stop speculation in 911R so I'm not sure what the excuse for this one is.
A Turbo S is a much better road car and a GT3 is a much better track car.
Even by the start of May, Cummings said, the government had still not adopted a “wartime mentality” and when the prime minister chaired important meetings, Johnson would ramble and tell jokes.
“As soon as things get ‘a bit embarrassing’ [he] does the whole ‘let’s take it offline’ shtick before shouting ‘forward to victory’, doing a thumbs up and pegging it out of the room before anybody can disagree.”
I think the majority of us can see the inevitable, not Southam or Sandpit, but most of us. Johnson is going to fall from grace. We think we can see why this is going to happen and most of the facts support our assessment.
The real question is 'when?'.
It's starting to happen more quickly than I thought. Others may disagree and think it will take some time, perhaps years. But it's happening.
Peak Boris has passed.
The question is, when the PM loses his popularity, will the Opposition be the people to benefit - or will, as happened last time, the Conservatives re-invent themselves under a new leader, without losing power?
That is right. And you would have to bet on another Tory reinvention as Labour continues to tear itself apart. Starmer has failed to stop the bleeding and is now weakened, probably beyond repair. However, there is no-one else in the party who could get past the membership that would do a better job. All of which is actually very bad news for the country. These are worrying times.
Indeed, but in what form will the next reinvention take. I get some indication from yesterday's revelations that IDS and his desire to purge the UK of all memory of EU membership, by first returning us to Imperial measurement, presumably followed by a de-decimalisation of our currency. But why does this trivia matter? It doesn't of itself. However presumably the end game to all this nonsense is a full return to the chocolate box world of the 1950s. Deference to authority, knowing one's place, dissent punished with hanging. flogging and corporal punishment in our Grammar Schools and on National Service.
In an ideal IDS world, mobile phones will be replaced by red telephone boxes and we'll all be driving around in our half timbered Morris Minors. The next reinvention might fulfill the Tory right's picture of what Britain, going forward will look like, and there might be enough red meat to keep the RedWall on board, hanging nonses and foreign terrorists will go down well, but when they finally arrive in the midst of IDS's wet dream it probably won't be what they thought they wanted.
I was a teenager in the 1950's. Quite what was so good about them, compared, say, with the 60's.
Mexicanpete's post is excellent and quite amusing as long as you remember that not a single word of it is actually correct. The difference between decriminalising the use of familiar weights and measures and abolishing the entire modern world is quite marked.
5 features to watch for from the 50s:
capital punishment the creation of large numbers of secondary modern schools homosexual practice is a crime racism is legal babies born out of wedlock are stigmatised.
I predict precisely zero of these to receive Tory government support.
Regardless of any other merit, the Sunak interview got GB News into the papers, which was probably its main aim.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 8h This is the most uncomfortable I’ve seen Rishi Sunak in quite a while.
Sunak fans should pause and watch the clip Dan Hodges has there. Looking well under pressure over £10K bill for new boilers for every family.
As Sunak says, what £10k bill? He rightly pointed out that (a) "costs" always get balanced against "opportunity" and whatever the cost is now won't be the cost by the time they are rolling it out.
Do you want a bet? The poor, as always, will be the ones getting fucked over while the rich (see Cameron’s father in law) have it away like bandits in the green Tory revolution.
Even by the start of May, Cummings said, the government had still not adopted a “wartime mentality” and when the prime minister chaired important meetings, Johnson would ramble and tell jokes.
“As soon as things get ‘a bit embarrassing’ [he] does the whole ‘let’s take it offline’ shtick before shouting ‘forward to victory’, doing a thumbs up and pegging it out of the room before anybody can disagree.”
I think the majority of us can see the inevitable, not Southam or Sandpit, but most of us. Johnson is going to fall from grace. We think we can see why this is going to happen and most of the facts support our assessment.
The real question is 'when?'.
It's starting to happen more quickly than I thought. Others may disagree and think it will take some time, perhaps years. But it's happening.
Peak Boris has passed.
Boris Johnson is about to start enjoying his job. He will soon grasp that the emergency is over, and then the post-pandemic boom will kick in. If ever there was a political leader who would enjoy a roaring twenties it would be Johnson.
Even when he messes up life and death policy decisions his voters find reasons to forgive or excuse him.
I stand by my prediction that he will increase his government's majority at the next general election.
I'd put the line for a majority around where it is now. So about a 50/50 shot that it increases.
Normally governments lose seats but normal politics hasn't applied for the past decade and I see little reason it will restart now.
I'd say there's about a 40% chance of a 100+ majority right now.
A lot of people will tell you that Labour lost the last general election because of Brexit, but after the next general election it may start to appear that they would have done even worse without Brexit driving support from Remainers.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
If Neil can get an interview or two like this, a minister or opponent every week going forward, his programme (and his new channel) will add an awful lot of positives to the political discourse.
BoZo chickened out of being interviewed by Neil last time. No way he will do it.
Rishi's motives are unclear. Maybe he thought it was low risk given the viewing figures.
Regardless of any other merit, the Sunak interview got GB News into the papers, which was probably its main aim.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 8h This is the most uncomfortable I’ve seen Rishi Sunak in quite a while.
Sunak fans should pause and watch the clip Dan Hodges has there. Looking well under pressure over £10K bill for new boilers for every family.
As Sunak says, what £10k bill? He rightly pointed out that (a) "costs" always get balanced against "opportunity" and whatever the cost is now won't be the cost by the time they are rolling it out.
Isn't the problem with retrofitting heat pumps that the radiators need to be replaced by bigger ones too, because of the lower operating temperature of the system?
So, opportunity - British design and manufacturing of all these new pumps and radiators, British installation of them. Which will generate a bucket load of money for the economy.
Neil is a dinosaur, asking the tired "how much will it cost" question not interested in "how much will it save" and "how much will doing nothing cost".
The majority of voters, especially the working classes and the Red Wall, care very much about the cost.
It’s also fair to ask why the British consumer is being asked to contribute so much, when the same isn’t true of much larger countries such as the US and China.
Having spent 15 years in a red wall WC town I am aware of this. "We can't afford it" has been drilled into them by opportunistic Tories to destroy Labour as the party who wastes money. Job done, the red wall is blue. Now then, we need to hose the blue wall with money. But "we can't afford it" and "how much will it cost".
I've had punters arguing on Facebook against spending money regenerating their own high street. The more the regen progresses and the more it gets lauded by experts as the model for other towns the more they shriek about the costs.
We either invest in stuff or we stay broken and crap. There is no £10k per household bill and the people asking the question know this. As for "why us and not China" we don't live in China. Our kids don't go to school in China. People have benefited massively from various clean air measures yet so many of our kids still go to schools where they breathe polluted air. Time to do more for their sake and let China do their own thing.
I am not at all sure Cummings will have any effect outside the political bubble, not least as he is one of the most discredited people in the country and in a recent poll Hancock poll twice Cummings on trust
His diatribe of hate is sad and of course releasing 'Whats app' messages might be par for the course for him, but they only reveal his utter hatred for Hancock and that Boris uses industrial language. Indeed that us unlikely to do any harm to Boris as thousands, even millions, would have considerable sympathy for a PM facing the worst crisis since WW2 swearing or uttering an oath or two
He strikes me as someone being torn apart by hate and hate in itself does far more damage to the one who hates than the hated.
He seems to want all the attention but at some point his desire will end with him being a very unhappy and unfulfilled person
He and it is sad
You do of course support the "fucking useless" SofS for Health who has once again just lied to the parliamentary committee.
R4 reporting that ban on eviction by landlords for non-payment of rent extended by 9 months to March 2022.
Lots more zombie businesses stagger on down the road.
We are in an odd situation. Good, honest, previously successful businesses dropping like flies, yet Mercedes-Benz Approved Used car stock at an all time low, because they cannot keep up with demand. I kid you not!
All those people enjoying lockdown because they don’t have to go to work are buying them with the extra money. I am tempted to laugh when their companies decide they don’t need them any more after furlough ends. But it will be a tragedy.
The media love this drama....they will spaff themselves silly at every little thing Big Dom drops. The public have shown so far to not give a rats arse.
"The term that Dom attributes to the PM of “totally hopeless” is going to be a difficult one to shake off."
Is it.....the PM was called totally unsuitable for the role a couple of weeks ago and nobody cared and we have moved on. Under the pressure of pandemic, I am sure lots of people in and around government said lots of things. Most people have said something along the lines of FFS, he's f##ked it up, dickhead, of somebody they work with at some point.
I think we all know Tony Blair said far worse about Gordon Brown on a regular basis.
I think you misunderstand how these stories impact. There are always two impacts. The instant and the slow burn. This was never going to destroy Johnson or this government like a Gerald Ratner moment. Look to the 'Guinless' campaign if you want to see how brands get wrecked.
On a separate point, Guernsey has a transparent set of criteria for how quarantine/testing requirements are set by infection rates. A frequent complaint of UK travel restrictions is the criteria for setting them are opaque:
- Category 1 includes countries in which we have formed Air Bridges. - Category 2 countries and regions will be implemented on 14 May 2021, with a prevalence rate of less than 30 per 100,000 for 7 consecutive days. - Category 3 includes countries and regions which have a prevalence rate between 30 to 100 per 100,000 for 7 consecutive days. - Category 4 includes countries and regions which have a prevalence rate of more than 100 per 100,000 for 7 consecutive days.
John 8:7~ KJV. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Cummings "revelation" that Boris sent a foul mouthed WhatsApp message about a colleague will move the dial about zero percent because who hasn't at some point got frustrated with a colleague and vented to someone else?
Boris doesn't pretend to be a shining light upon the hill, he's a human flaws and all, and what human has never gotten frustrated with someone they work with?
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
Even by the start of May, Cummings said, the government had still not adopted a “wartime mentality” and when the prime minister chaired important meetings, Johnson would ramble and tell jokes.
“As soon as things get ‘a bit embarrassing’ [he] does the whole ‘let’s take it offline’ shtick before shouting ‘forward to victory’, doing a thumbs up and pegging it out of the room before anybody can disagree.”
Dominic Cummings criticising somebody else for being rambling and having no grasp of the issues?
He really is an extraordinarily unselfaware twat.
Edit - and I say that as somebody who is anything but a fan of Johnson or Hancock.
Indeed, that is the most damning thing coming out of Cummings long diatribes. The amateurishness of the whole business, and for a year DC was the right hand man of the PM, with carte blanched to do as he pleased.
I don't expect a short term poll effect, people aren't interested in politics during the silly season, but there is lots of source material for future historians. When the history is written this will be heavily cited.
An interesting point was that Cummings more or less admitted he was out if his depth, in his apology to the Commons select committee. And while he's also patently incapable of presenting a persuasive case (god knows what those who find @Cyclfree's headers too long make of his screeds), there is damning material buried in the verbiage. Fortunately for Johnson, most journalists don't possess the required attention span, either.
Regardless of any other merit, the Sunak interview got GB News into the papers, which was probably its main aim.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 8h This is the most uncomfortable I’ve seen Rishi Sunak in quite a while.
Sunak fans should pause and watch the clip Dan Hodges has there. Looking well under pressure over £10K bill for new boilers for every family.
As Sunak says, what £10k bill? He rightly pointed out that (a) "costs" always get balanced against "opportunity" and whatever the cost is now won't be the cost by the time they are rolling it out.
Isn't the problem with retrofitting heat pumps that the radiators need to be replaced by bigger ones too, because of the lower operating temperature of the system?
So, opportunity - British design and manufacturing of all these new pumps and radiators, British installation of them. Which will generate a bucket load of money for the economy.
Neil is a dinosaur, asking the tired "how much will it cost" question not interested in "how much will it save" and "how much will doing nothing cost".
Yes, but all this expense does not add any value to the economy, you have the same work produced as before, albeit that emissions are reduced at point of use (though unless all of the manufacturing and construction is carbon neutral you could not even guarantee that overall emissions were reduced). So in fact you are imposing a cost on the economy either directly or via taxpayer subsidy and you are not creating any competitive advantage for the UK versus its major competitors. In the short term it may speed up the velocity of money, but that is a sugar rush that gives no long term growth benefit. Given the higher costs that Brexit imposes on the UK, the critical need now is for investment that increases the efficiency of the UK economy in order to make up for what is lost. This is an expensive bondoogle promoted by special interests and with dubious or unproven emissions and costs benefits versus alternatives and which adds nothing to the efficiency or capacity of the UK economy.
Tory policies are becoming increasingly economically illiterate and Sunak knows it.
I am not at all sure Cummings will have any effect outside the political bubble, not least as he is one of the most discredited people in the country and in a recent poll Hancock poll twice Cummings on trust
His diatribe of hate is sad and of course releasing 'Whats app' messages might be par for the course for him, but they only reveal his utter hatred for Hancock and that Boris uses industrial language. Indeed that us unlikely to do any harm to Boris as thousands, even millions, would have considerable sympathy for a PM facing the worst crisis since WW2 swearing or uttering an oath or two
He strikes me as someone being torn apart by hate and hate in itself does far more damage to the one who hates than the hated.
He seems to want all the attention but at some point his desire will end with him being a very unhappy and unfulfilled person
He and it is sad
You do of course support the "fucking useless" SofS for Health who has once again just lied to the parliamentary committee.
Excuse me why the language and how can I remove Hancock, in fact of late I think he is doing a reasonable but immensely difficult task
Even by the start of May, Cummings said, the government had still not adopted a “wartime mentality” and when the prime minister chaired important meetings, Johnson would ramble and tell jokes.
“As soon as things get ‘a bit embarrassing’ [he] does the whole ‘let’s take it offline’ shtick before shouting ‘forward to victory’, doing a thumbs up and pegging it out of the room before anybody can disagree.”
I think the majority of us can see the inevitable, not Southam or Sandpit, but most of us. Johnson is going to fall from grace. We think we can see why this is going to happen and most of the facts support our assessment.
The real question is 'when?'.
It's starting to happen more quickly than I thought. Others may disagree and think it will take some time, perhaps years. But it's happening.
Peak Boris has passed.
The question is, when the PM loses his popularity, will the Opposition be the people to benefit - or will, as happened last time, the Conservatives re-invent themselves under a new leader, without losing power?
That is right. And you would have to bet on another Tory reinvention as Labour continues to tear itself apart. Starmer has failed to stop the bleeding and is now weakened, probably beyond repair. However, there is no-one else in the party who could get past the membership that would do a better job. All of which is actually very bad news for the country. These are worrying times.
Indeed, but in what form will the next reinvention take. I get some indication from yesterday's revelations that IDS and his desire to purge the UK of all memory of EU membership, by first returning us to Imperial measurement, presumably followed by a de-decimalisation of our currency. But why does this trivia matter? It doesn't of itself. However presumably the end game to all this nonsense is a full return to the chocolate box world of the 1950s. Deference to authority, knowing one's place, dissent punished with hanging. flogging and corporal punishment in our Grammar Schools and on National Service.
In an ideal IDS world, mobile phones will be replaced by red telephone boxes and we'll all be driving around in our half timbered Morris Minors. The next reinvention might fulfill the Tory right's picture of what Britain, going forward will look like, and there might be enough red meat to keep the RedWall on board, hanging nonses and foreign terrorists will go down well, but when they finally arrive in the midst of IDS's wet dream it probably won't be what they thought they wanted.
I was a teenager in the 1950's. Quite what was so good about them, compared, say, with the 60's.
It's when those who were young in the 1950s were young. And youth is a heady brew that we all reach for. The trouble is that the imperial measurements/red phone boxes/bobbies on the beat stuff are the superficials. The things we really pine for- the sense of growing opportunity, the full head of hair, the first tongue fumbled with behind the cricket pavillion- they're not coming back, no matter who we make trade deals with.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
I assume you ignored the evidence provided on here that the actual Delta version was not identified by the dates Starmer quoted
Who is going to employ a cnut like Cummings? A disloyal untrustworthy shit if ever there was one. Every prospective employer is going to.know this....and the media loathe him..
I am not at all sure Cummings will have any effect outside the political bubble, not least as he is one of the most discredited people in the country and in a recent poll Hancock poll twice Cummings on trust
His diatribe of hate is sad and of course releasing 'Whats app' messages might be par for the course for him, but they only reveal his utter hatred for Hancock and that Boris uses industrial language. Indeed that us unlikely to do any harm to Boris as thousands, even millions, would have considerable sympathy for a PM facing the worst crisis since WW2 swearing or uttering an oath or two
He strikes me as someone being torn apart by hate and hate in itself does far more damage to the one who hates than the hated.
He seems to want all the attention but at some point his desire will end with him being a very unhappy and unfulfilled person
He and it is sad
I broadly agree about the public reaction, and it's odd that Cummings is so bad at judging what will have an impact. I couldn't be bothered to read his long diatribe yesterday, and I suppose I'm in the 5% most interested in politics. If he'd restricted himself to one paragraph describing Johnson's view of Hancock, it would have been more effective.
Which doesn't mean that I disbelieve him, or think that we have a competent government. With some exceptions, we really don't. If we accept that Johnson said what he's reported as saying, do we think that he'd studied the evidence of Hancock's record and come to a fair view? Of course not.
I'm old enough to remember the wheels coming off several Governments.
I remember it happening to Jim Callaghan, to Margaret Thatcher, to John Major, to Tony Blair, to Theresa May.
One of the characteristics when the vehicle begins to wobble is that those on board enter denial that it's happening. There are examples of that on this forum.
I'm also old enough to remember false predictions of demise. Thatcher's fall was predicted a couple of years ahead of its event. Boris Johnson's demise has likewise been predicted before he even became leader.
He is a difficult one to call both because he's a political chameleon and because there may never have been such a slippery customer in Downing Street.
However, I do sense the wheels are wobbling. Too many things are beginning to go wrong for this to be airily dismissed as Westminster village tittle tattle.
One complication in predicting Boris's exit is that unlike Mrs Thatcher, Boris will probably *want* to retire to spend more time with his family and people who can write big cheques.
Is there much evidence that Johnson has ever desired to spend more time with his family? He casts off families like others cast off dirty underwear.
I think the intention is rather to "make money and enjoy himself", which certainly provides a motive for his stepping down. Family will probably not figure large in those plans.
The rapid spread of the Delta Covid variant has driven a 50 per cent rise in infections in England since May, a study led by Imperial College London found on Thursday.
“Prevalence is increasing exponentially, driven by younger ages... and it appears to be doubling every 11 days. Clearly, that is bad news,” Steven Riley, professor of infectious disease dynamics, Imperial College London, told reporters.
It’s so frustratingly dishonest. It’s been the same throughout the pandemic. An incredibly fast moving situation which literally changes every day. We have had ministers all over the media constantly in the run up to Monday insisting that new information was coming in all the time and this meant the decision would be taken at the very last minute.
And then a few days later we get scientists trumpeting “studies” in the media that are literally weeks out of date.
If these models were any good they should literally be able to be updated in real time. I get the impression that SAGE “commissions” pieces of work for certain time periods (usually conveniently timed to give them a few days run in before “reporting” to ministers) when this whole thing should be an ongoing process where (once the models are built) the reports should be available 24 hrs a day in near as dammit real time.
It’s as if the Govt is still set in World war 1 with reports from the front taking several days to filter into ministerial inboxes.
I am not at all sure Cummings will have any effect outside the political bubble, not least as he is one of the most discredited people in the country and in a recent poll Hancock poll twice Cummings on trust
His diatribe of hate is sad and of course releasing 'Whats app' messages might be par for the course for him, but they only reveal his utter hatred for Hancock and that Boris uses industrial language. Indeed that us unlikely to do any harm to Boris as thousands, even millions, would have considerable sympathy for a PM facing the worst crisis since WW2 swearing or uttering an oath or two
He strikes me as someone being torn apart by hate and hate in itself does far more damage to the one who hates than the hated.
He seems to want all the attention but at some point his desire will end with him being a very unhappy and unfulfilled person
He and it is sad
I broadly agree about the public reaction, and it's odd that Cummings is so bad at judging what will have an impact. I couldn't be bothered to read his long diatribe yesterday, and I suppose I'm in the 5% most interested in politics. If he'd restricted himself to one paragraph describing Johnson's view of Hancock, it would have been more effective.
Which doesn't mean that I disbelieve him, or think that we have a competent government. With some exceptions, we really don't. If we accept that Johnson said what he's reported as saying, do we think that he'd studied the evidence of Hancock's record and come to a fair view? Of course not.
Cummings is going to put stuff out there, it’s what he does. The problem is the Village hacks pretending it’s headline news, when no-one except themselves care about it at all.
Mr. Sandpit, Stellaris (a sci-fi strategy game) has a profanity filter.
You can make your own empires, which is quite fun, and I had a species of peacock-derived clever birds. Only they were pea----s in the text.
Better yet, my robotic empire, the Synthetic Imperium, had a leader whose title I don't actually know because the game censored it's own automatically assigned title. It was Com----er, I think, but I have no idea what the missing bit is. Looks like it could be Commander or Computer, but I fail to see the profanity...
On Tuesday a whole group of parents started getting pinged on the Covid App to isolate. At a kids football match on Saturday one of the visiting team/parents had Covid and all those who were in the area were asked to isolate. All the kids who were there had to come home from school. I've not heard of any of them (parents or kids) testing positive yet but does seem to show the App is working. I think a lot of people had thought we were through it all and it has been quite a wake up call.
The other anecdote is much more worrying. Couple of parents I know were out in our local nature reserve. They met another family and one of their children was coughing. The parent said he just has a "touch of Covid". They thought they were joking but then it became clear that they were not. The child had Covid and they were out and about. I can't quite believe how stupid some people are.
It does back up the obvious picture of infections growing. I do wonder though from looking at the last 2 weeks data whether the pace of growth is declining.
Growth is declining which is great but Delta Covid is still very, very regional.
One thing many people are not aware of is the split nature of the autumn winter wave. The North of England had a big October wave and then a similarly sized or smaller winter wave. The south of England had a modest October wave then an absolutely gigantic winter wave. London is the most pronounced of that.
So what we are seeing is Delta fading in the North West and not absolutely catching fire elsewhere. But there is still the possibility of an ignition.
To be honest, I think it has ignited almost everywhere else - but cannot burn/spread anywhere near as fast as the earlier waves, despite being by far the most infectious version yet.
In the North West and the hotspots, it's fallen well off the exponential growth part. With exponentially growing variables, they always end up following an S-curve when they get to the point where they can't infect as widely. This can be from exhaustion of potential host pool, or from behavioural change of the potential hosts (moving more separately).
I suspect the latter (because the primary driver of the outbreak is in the 20-29s, and they have neither been widely vaccinated enough two weeks earlier, nor had enough infections to exhaust the pool against a much higher R rate. However, while we know behavioural change tends to be temporary (when the worry subsides, people move back to earlier behaviour), the vaccination status of more and more in that group is flipping to "protected," so by the time that happens, I'd expect the former (exhaustion of host pool) to be valid, anyway.
In the other areas, even with widely vaccinated populations, we're seeing it in the very early stages of take-off (again, concentrated in the twenties). Again, and as we see anecdotal evidence presented, people aren't very worried, so behavioural patterns allow that. However, whilst it's catching fire, we're pouring water on the entire area of wood that it's reaching for, and it looks to be too late for it to really go for it in those areas. That pool of potential hosts is collapsing even as it's reaching out for it.
The big saving grace of all this is how late the virus left it (I know, it's kind of ascribing agency to it, when it has none). Had it done this two months earlier, or three months, or had Alpha been Delta, we'd have been screwed. I mean, run the figures and it looks very much like even the first lockdown would have been insufficient to reduce R below about 1.2 to 1.3 - it would have continued exponential growth even in lockdown unless we'd tightened it yet further.
If Neil can get an interview or two like this, a minister or opponent every week going forward, his programme (and his new channel) will add an awful lot of positives to the political discourse.
BoZo chickened out of being interviewed by Neil last time. No way he will do it.
Rishi's motives are unclear. Maybe he thought it was low risk given the viewing figures.
Just seen a bit of it via Dan Hodges, and Rishi was uncomfortable. However, the issues which most discomfort politicians is where their policy is so expensive that they don't want to put figures on it (like gas fired conversion to green stuff in this case), but ALSO other parties have a better much cheaper policy. This is not one of those. A Labour chancellor will be equally skewered and evasive. And if you want to form the next government you too have to answer the question.
As to GB TV, I have watched bits and pieces. The gulf in quality between the dull hours of mediocrity and Andrew Neil is pretty stark. It's a one trick pony at the moment.
On Tuesday a whole group of parents started getting pinged on the Covid App to isolate. At a kids football match on Saturday one of the visiting team/parents had Covid and all those who were in the area were asked to isolate. All the kids who were there had to come home from school. I've not heard of any of them (parents or kids) testing positive yet but does seem to show the App is working. I think a lot of people had thought we were through it all and it has been quite a wake up call.
The other anecdote is much more worrying. Couple of parents I know were out in our local nature reserve. They met another family and one of their children was coughing. The parent said he just has a "touch of Covid". They thought they were joking but then it became clear that they were not. The child had Covid and they were out and about. I can't quite believe how stupid some people are.
It does back up the obvious picture of infections growing. I do wonder though from looking at the last 2 weeks data whether the pace of growth is declining.
Growth is declining which is great but Delta Covid is still very, very regional.
One thing many people are not aware of is the split nature of the autumn winter wave. The North of England had a big October wave and then a similarly sized or smaller winter wave. The south of England had a modest October wave then an absolutely gigantic winter wave. London is the most pronounced of that.
So what we are seeing is Delta fading in the North West and not absolutely catching fire elsewhere. But there is still the possibility of an ignition.
To be honest, I think it has ignited almost everywhere else - but cannot burn/spread anywhere near as fast as the earlier waves, despite being by far the most infectious version yet.
In the North West and the hotspots, it's fallen well off the exponential growth part. With exponentially growing variables, they always end up following an S-curve when they get to the point where they can't infect as widely. This can be from exhaustion of potential host pool, or from behavioural change of the potential hosts (moving more separately).
I suspect the latter (because the primary driver of the outbreak is in the 20-29s, and they have neither been widely vaccinated enough two weeks earlier, nor had enough infections to exhaust the pool against a much higher R rate. However, while we know behavioural change tends to be temporary (when the worry subsides, people move back to earlier behaviour), the vaccination status of more and more in that group is flipping to "protected," so by the time that happens, I'd expect the former (exhaustion of host pool) to be valid, anyway.
In the other areas, even with widely vaccinated populations, we're seeing it in the very early stages of take-off (again, concentrated in the twenties). Again, and as we see anecdotal evidence presented, people aren't very worried, so behavioural patterns allow that. However, whilst it's catching fire, we're pouring water on the entire area of wood that it's reaching for, and it looks to be too late for it to really go for it in those areas. That pool of potential hosts is collapsing even as it's reaching out for it.
The big saving grace of all this is how late the virus left it (I know, it's kind of ascribing agency to it, when it has none). Had it done this two months earlier, or three months, or had Alpha been Delta, we'd have been screwed. I mean, run the figures and it looks very much like even the first lockdown would have been insufficient to reduce R below about 1.2 to 1.3 - it would have continued exponential growth even in lockdown unless we'd tightened it yet further.
We have had an outbreak in our local schools with many pupils sent home
The G7 summit presented an unwelcome gift to St Ives in Cornwall, where it took place. On 7 June, and the fortnight before, there were zero Covid19 cases. Then on 8 June there were 6 cases, the next day 24 cases, day after 27 cases and 11 June (last available data date) 36 cases https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1405246545470136332
Can I just say, since I was not online, how much I enjoyed @Cyclefree's thread header posted last night. An outstanding piece that highlighted a genuine problem and a major flaw in our system. Why is Dick still in office this morning? Have we no shame? None at all?
I would ask where our opposition is but, frankly, what's the point?
I missed it last night, too. I agree completely. Sir Ian Blair getting airtime yesterday to defend her as "the outstanding officer of her generation", in between deeply unconvincing defences of his own record, incensed me.
Thread on the RSPCA graphic on the Oz trade deal (which suggests "live animal exports" is a risk!):
Seeing this graphic doing the rounds a lot WRT to the UK-Australia trade deal. It's really quite misleading. Here's why. AFAICT (happy to be corrected) most of these issues are either legally unchanged as a result of the deal or will make no difference anyway. Specifically:
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
Borders were "left open" if by that you mean that there has always throughout this crisis been some flights coming in. The volume, however, has been greatly reduced.
For all this period foreign nationals have been allowed to travel in, with conditions, while UK citizens have mostly been barred from leaving the country (with some occupational/specific situation exemptions). Putting it another way, the UK government has disadvantaged its own citizens verses citizens of other countries - a factor to examine in any public enquiry I would think.
"Closing the borders" is a simplistic term used by those looking for a scapegoat (who often have no desire to leave the county themselves but are relishing clipping the wings of those that do). Not even Aus and NZ closed borders entirely. The virus with all its variants will find a way in anyway.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
I assume you ignored the evidence provided on here that the actual Delta version was not identified by the dates Starmer quoted
Technically I doubt that is true? (when we hear yesterday that variants that theWHO are working on are currently up to Kappa). Just it hadn’t been identified as a “variant of concern”
Mr. Sandpit, Stellaris (a sci-fi strategy game) has a profanity filter.
You can make your own empires, which is quite fun, and I had a species of peacock-derived clever birds. Only they were pea----s in the text.
Better yet, my robotic empire, the Synthetic Imperium, had a leader whose title I don't actually know because the game censored it's own automatically assigned title. It was Com----er, I think, but I have no idea what the missing bit is. Looks like it could be Commander or Computer, but I fail to see the profanity...
The G7 summit presented an unwelcome gift to St Ives in Cornwall, where it took place. On 7 June, and the fortnight before, there were zero Covid19 cases. Then on 8 June there were 6 cases, the next day 24 cases, day after 27 cases and 11 June (last available data date) 36 cases https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1405246545470136332
So that would mean infections 5-6 days prior. So like 1/2nd June. Wasn’t the summit 10 days later?
Mr. Sandpit, ha. Reminds me of a story from Checkpoint years ago. A file couldn't be seen/downloaded or got flagged as naughty because it had the character string s.ex at the end.
*sighs*
As soon as we have a political class that understands algorithms aren't magic and that technology has limits as well as potential we'll be much better served.
An old insult was "He's a nasty little bastard." This was applied to anyone who was permanently angry and interested only in doing someone down. A treacherous git, and not to be trusted. Usually someone disliked by everyone. Dom is a perfect example.
That's why the insults aren't sticking.
BoJo is lazy, not half as clever as he thinks he is, and is yet to finish a coherent sentence. But he's lucky. He appointed someone competent to oversee the vaccine rollout - unlike the EU.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Boris Johnson seems to be letting Michael Gove make policy, e.g. about continuing home working. Boris has been talking a lot about freedom, but the reality has been different. Other countries are returning to normal faster than the UK. The next few months could see lots of Boris's promises failing to materialise. Many of his backbenchers are not at all happy with him now. If he fails to stick to a path returning the UK to normality, I can see how support for a new Conservative leader could grow soon.
Regardless of any other merit, the Sunak interview got GB News into the papers, which was probably its main aim.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 8h This is the most uncomfortable I’ve seen Rishi Sunak in quite a while.
Sunak fans should pause and watch the clip Dan Hodges has there. Looking well under pressure over £10K bill for new boilers for every family.
As Sunak says, what £10k bill? He rightly pointed out that (a) "costs" always get balanced against "opportunity" and whatever the cost is now won't be the cost by the time they are rolling it out.
Isn't the problem with retrofitting heat pumps that the radiators need to be replaced by bigger ones too, because of the lower operating temperature of the system?
So, opportunity - British design and manufacturing of all these new pumps and radiators, British installation of them. Which will generate a bucket load of money for the economy.
Neil is a dinosaur, asking the tired "how much will it cost" question not interested in "how much will it save" and "how much will doing nothing cost".
The majority of voters, especially the working classes and the Red Wall, care very much about the cost.
It’s also fair to ask why the British consumer is being asked to contribute so much, when the same isn’t true of much larger countries such as the US and China.
Having spent 15 years in a red wall WC town I am aware of this. "We can't afford it" has been drilled into them by opportunistic Tories to destroy Labour as the party who wastes money. Job done, the red wall is blue. Now then, we need to hose the blue wall with money. But "we can't afford it" and "how much will it cost".
I've had punters arguing on Facebook against spending money regenerating their own high street. The more the regen progresses and the more it gets lauded by experts as the model for other towns the more they shriek about the costs.
We either invest in stuff or we stay broken and crap. There is no £10k per household bill and the people asking the question know this. As for "why us and not China" we don't live in China. Our kids don't go to school in China. People have benefited massively from various clean air measures yet so many of our kids still go to schools where they breathe polluted air. Time to do more for their sake and let China do their own thing.
I do sometimes wonder whether a form of self-hatred or Stockholm syndrome has taken over with elements of the English working class. It's like they don't think they deserve any better. Even Brexit - touted as the second peasants' revolt by folk on here, seems to be more about hurting other people (foreigners, Londoners, the 'metropolitan elite') than anything else. The ridiculous thing about the "we can't afford it" mantra is that if you look at who pays most of the tax in this country, it really isn't them paying for it. And they still don't want the money.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
I assume you ignored the evidence provided on here that the actual Delta version was not identified by the dates Starmer quoted
The rapid spread of the Delta Covid variant has driven a 50 per cent rise in infections in England since May, a study led by Imperial College London found on Thursday.
“Prevalence is increasing exponentially, driven by younger ages... and it appears to be doubling every 11 days. Clearly, that is bad news,” Steven Riley, professor of infectious disease dynamics, Imperial College London, told reporters.
It’s so frustratingly dishonest. It’s been the same throughout the pandemic. An incredibly fast moving situation which literally changes every day. We have had ministers all over the media constantly in the run up to Monday insisting that new information was coming in all the time and this meant the decision would be taken at the very last minute.
And then a few days later we get scientists trumpeting “studies” in the media that are literally weeks out of date.
If these models were any good they should literally be able to be updated in real time. I get the impression that SAGE “commissions” pieces of work for certain time periods (usually conveniently timed to give them a few days run in before “reporting” to ministers) when this whole thing should be an ongoing process where (once the models are built) the reports should be available 24 hrs a day in near as dammit real time.
It’s as if the Govt is still set in World war 1 with reports from the front taking several days to filter into ministerial inboxes.
This is the kind of criticism Cummings used to level at civil service. For once he was correct.
Steve Baker was good on the problems of SAGE and modelling in Commons yesterday. I didn't have any time for him over Brexit but he has made some good points during the plague years. I guess his software background has helped him see a bit more clearly that some of this stuff is worse than goat entrails frankly.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
I assume you ignored the evidence provided on here that the actual Delta version was not identified by the dates Starmer quoted
Technically I doubt that is true? (when we hear yesterday that variants that theWHO are working on are currently up to Kappa). Just it hadn’t been identified as a “variant of concern”
Your last sentence is the important one, it had not been identified as a variant of concern at the dates Starmer used at PMQs yesterday
When it was, the border was closed and of course closing out border was closing it to thousands of our fellow Brits returning home
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
Borders were "left open" if by that you mean that there has always throughout this crisis been some flights coming in. The volume, however, has been greatly reduced.
For all this period foreign nationals have been allowed to travel in, with conditions, while UK citizens have mostly been barred from leaving the country (with some occupational/specific situation exemptions). Putting it another way, the UK government has disadvantaged its own citizens verses citizens of other countries - a factor to examine in any public enquiry I would think.
"Closing the borders" is a simplistic term used by those looking for a scapegoat (who often have no desire to leave the county themselves but are relishing clipping the wings of those that do). Not even Aus and NZ closed borders entirely. The virus with all its variants will find a way in anyway.
Correction: public inquiry not enquiry. I've duly thrashed myself.
Very much so. Opposition during a pandemic isn’t the easiest of jobs, but Starmer and co don’t even seem to be trying.
They should be on the TV morning, noon and night with stories of people who can say they’ve been let down by the government during the pandemic and slipped through the cracks of the various schemes. But they only ever speak to union members and public sector workers, who are pretty much all doing just fine...
When the extension legislation comes up next week, they need to propose an unreasonable amendment, as a reason to vote down the bill without it - and see if they can get it to fall with enough Tory libertarian rebels. But they won’t, because they really don’t understand how Parliamentary politics works.
Sandpit is always sensible so this deserves a serious reply.
(1) Getting on TV is difficult, even for the official Opposition, unless you say something off the wall. There is absolutely no way we could organise a stream of people on TV saying they've been let down.
(2) The tactics Sandpit suggests are exactly the sort of thing that the Tories and some Labour oppositions would do (Miliband's successful ambush of the Syrian bombing policy is a good example) and the antithesis of Starmer's approach to constructive opposition, since the outcome would be the collapse of restrictions and the Opposition held responsible for the subsequent increase in infections.
There is a cynical case for irresponsible opposition. Attack at every turn, regardless of the facts, and pick up the disgruntled on all sides. Then go responsible when the election comes round. It might work. But you'd need a different leader for it, and (if you think that continuing restrictions on Covid are necessary) you'd need to accept a lot of deaths as collateral damage.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
Borders were "left open" if by that you mean that there has always throughout this crisis been some flights coming in. The volume, however, has been greatly reduced.
For all this period foreign nationals have been allowed to travel in, with conditions, while UK citizens have mostly been barred from leaving the country (with some occupational/specific situation exemptions). Putting it another way, the UK government has disadvantaged its own citizens verses citizens of other countries - a factor to examine in any public enquiry I would think.
"Closing the borders" is a simplistic term used by those looking for a scapegoat (who often have no desire to leave the county themselves but are relishing clipping the wings of those that do). Not even Aus and NZ closed borders entirely. The virus with all its variants will find a way in anyway.
Compare with the restrictions on neighbouring Pakistan at the time. It is not hindsight to say they should also have been introduced for India, since it was being said back then that Boris was running a risk for no good reason. And there is a difference between the variant 'finding a way in' and being introduced on a fairly large scale simultaneously across the country. The latter is what led to the current restrictions being extended beyond June.
Regardless of any other merit, the Sunak interview got GB News into the papers, which was probably its main aim.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 8h This is the most uncomfortable I’ve seen Rishi Sunak in quite a while.
Sunak fans should pause and watch the clip Dan Hodges has there. Looking well under pressure over £10K bill for new boilers for every family.
As Sunak says, what £10k bill? He rightly pointed out that (a) "costs" always get balanced against "opportunity" and whatever the cost is now won't be the cost by the time they are rolling it out.
Isn't the problem with retrofitting heat pumps that the radiators need to be replaced by bigger ones too, because of the lower operating temperature of the system?
So, opportunity - British design and manufacturing of all these new pumps and radiators, British installation of them. Which will generate a bucket load of money for the economy.
Neil is a dinosaur, asking the tired "how much will it cost" question not interested in "how much will it save" and "how much will doing nothing cost".
The majority of voters, especially the working classes and the Red Wall, care very much about the cost.
It’s also fair to ask why the British consumer is being asked to contribute so much, when the same isn’t true of much larger countries such as the US and China.
Having spent 15 years in a red wall WC town I am aware of this. "We can't afford it" has been drilled into them by opportunistic Tories to destroy Labour as the party who wastes money. Job done, the red wall is blue. Now then, we need to hose the blue wall with money. But "we can't afford it" and "how much will it cost".
I've had punters arguing on Facebook against spending money regenerating their own high street. The more the regen progresses and the more it gets lauded by experts as the model for other towns the more they shriek about the costs.
We either invest in stuff or we stay broken and crap. There is no £10k per household bill and the people asking the question know this. As for "why us and not China" we don't live in China. Our kids don't go to school in China. People have benefited massively from various clean air measures yet so many of our kids still go to schools where they breathe polluted air. Time to do more for their sake and let China do their own thing.
I do sometimes wonder whether a form of self-hatred or Stockholm syndrome has taken over with elements of the English working class. It's like they don't think they deserve any better. Even Brexit - touted as the second peasants' revolt by folk on here, seems to be more about hurting other people (foreigners, Londoners, the 'metropolitan elite') than anything else.
I suspect a lot of them want "higher wages" and by removing a pool of cheap accessible labour from the market they may very well get them.
R4 reporting that ban on eviction by landlords for non-payment of rent extended by 9 months to March 2022.
Lots more zombie businesses stagger on down the road.
We are in an odd situation. Good, honest, previously successful businesses dropping like flies, yet Mercedes-Benz Approved Used car stock at an all time low, because they cannot keep up with demand. I kid you not!
All those people enjoying lockdown because they don’t have to go to work are buying them with the extra money. I am tempted to laugh when their companies decide they don’t need them any more after furlough ends. But it will be a tragedy.
At the other end of the scale, as the owner of a three year old Skoda Fabia I've just had an appeal from the dealer from whom I bought it; did I want to trade it in as they had a queue of people looking for cars like mine.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Boris Johnson seems to be letting Michael Gove make policy, e.g. about continuing home working. Boris has been talking a lot about freedom, but the reality has been different. Other countries are returning to normal faster than the UK. The next few months could see lots of Boris's promises failing to materialise. Many of his backbenchers are not at all happy with him now. If he fails to stick to a path returning the UK to normality, I can see how support for a new Conservative leader could grow soon.
I am not at all sure of other countries returning to normal faster than the UK but even so I do believe Boris has to open on the 19th July otherwise he could face an internal party issue and of course that is the only way at present that he could be replaced
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
I assume you ignored the evidence provided on here that the actual Delta version was not identified by the dates Starmer quoted
Technically I doubt that is true? (when we hear yesterday that variants that theWHO are working on are currently up to Kappa). Just it hadn’t been identified as a “variant of concern”
Your last sentence is the important one, it had not been identified as a variant of concern at the dates Starmer used at PMQs yesterday
When it was, the border was closed and of course closing out border was closing it to thousands of our fellow Brits returning home
PB is not the place to use that blather.
Because PBers were saying that travel with India had to be stopped ten days before it was.
And the "who will think of the Brits abroad" is yet more bollox.
The government should have said back in March 2020 that anyone who leaves this country does so at their own risk and is liable to being stranded without warning.
Regardless of any other merit, the Sunak interview got GB News into the papers, which was probably its main aim.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 8h This is the most uncomfortable I’ve seen Rishi Sunak in quite a while.
Sunak fans should pause and watch the clip Dan Hodges has there. Looking well under pressure over £10K bill for new boilers for every family.
As Sunak says, what £10k bill? He rightly pointed out that (a) "costs" always get balanced against "opportunity" and whatever the cost is now won't be the cost by the time they are rolling it out.
Isn't the problem with retrofitting heat pumps that the radiators need to be replaced by bigger ones too, because of the lower operating temperature of the system?
So, opportunity - British design and manufacturing of all these new pumps and radiators, British installation of them. Which will generate a bucket load of money for the economy.
Neil is a dinosaur, asking the tired "how much will it cost" question not interested in "how much will it save" and "how much will doing nothing cost".
The majority of voters, especially the working classes and the Red Wall, care very much about the cost.
It’s also fair to ask why the British consumer is being asked to contribute so much, when the same isn’t true of much larger countries such as the US and China.
Having spent 15 years in a red wall WC town I am aware of this. "We can't afford it" has been drilled into them by opportunistic Tories to destroy Labour as the party who wastes money. Job done, the red wall is blue. Now then, we need to hose the blue wall with money. But "we can't afford it" and "how much will it cost".
I've had punters arguing on Facebook against spending money regenerating their own high street. The more the regen progresses and the more it gets lauded by experts as the model for other towns the more they shriek about the costs.
We either invest in stuff or we stay broken and crap. There is no £10k per household bill and the people asking the question know this. As for "why us and not China" we don't live in China. Our kids don't go to school in China. People have benefited massively from various clean air measures yet so many of our kids still go to schools where they breathe polluted air. Time to do more for their sake and let China do their own thing.
I do sometimes wonder whether a form of self-hatred or Stockholm syndrome has taken over with elements of the English working class. It's like they don't think they deserve any better. Even Brexit - touted as the second peasants' revolt by folk on here, seems to be more about hurting other people (foreigners, Londoners, the 'metropolitan elite') than anything else. The ridiculous thing about the "we can't afford it" mantra is that if you look at who pays most of the tax in this country, it really isn't them paying for it. And they still don't want the money.
Living in a red wall patch (a county which had up to 4 Labour seats out of 6 and now has none) these posts completely ignore the extent to which WWC areas in the north both have felt ignored and belittled by southern power but also millions of them have done well, and never had it so good. The Labour party of Liverpool or Hackney neither talks their language nor shares their unfashionable aspirations. Not even Andy Burnham really speaks for them. Boris does.
The G7 summit presented an unwelcome gift to St Ives in Cornwall, where it took place. On 7 June, and the fortnight before, there were zero Covid19 cases. Then on 8 June there were 6 cases, the next day 24 cases, day after 27 cases and 11 June (last available data date) 36 cases https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1405246545470136332
So that would mean infections 5-6 days prior. So like 1/2nd June. Wasn’t the summit 10 days later?
Thanks. I managed to miss this last night as well. Rishi is extremely articulate and very comfortable dealing with the debate. Some of his answers are verging on the glib and there is no doubt at all that the pressure on public spending is going to be immense for at least a decade but he gives the impression of having a clear over view which gives some confidence.
A good interview all round although the set was once again pretty dismal.
Here is the thing with Boris Johnson that will eventually (if it hasn't already) catch up with him. Lack of leadership skills. I know all the fanbois will keep going on about the elections he has won, but as I have said before, that was the interview, not the job. Some are good at bullshitting interviewers, and Johnson is such.
If ever there were a stronger evidence of Johnson's lack of leadership it is this: The man he leaves in place as Sec of State for Health, in a pandemic no less, he describes as "totally fucking hopeless", and in spite of this analysis (which in part might be psychological projection), he leaves him in place. That really is totally fucking hopeless!
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
I assume you ignored the evidence provided on here that the actual Delta version was not identified by the dates Starmer quoted
Technically I doubt that is true? (when we hear yesterday that variants that theWHO are working on are currently up to Kappa). Just it hadn’t been identified as a “variant of concern”
Your last sentence is the important one, it had not been identified as a variant of concern at the dates Starmer used at PMQs yesterday
When it was, the border was closed and of course closing out border was closing it to thousands of our fellow Brits returning home
The border isn't closed now. India is on the Red List, so travel is allowed to the UK from India (with the highest-level conditions).
I am not at all sure Cummings will have any effect outside the political bubble, not least as he is one of the most discredited people in the country and in a recent poll Hancock poll twice Cummings on trust
His diatribe of hate is sad and of course releasing 'Whats app' messages might be par for the course for him, but they only reveal his utter hatred for Hancock and that Boris uses industrial language. Indeed that us unlikely to do any harm to Boris as thousands, even millions, would have considerable sympathy for a PM facing the worst crisis since WW2 swearing or uttering an oath or two
He strikes me as someone being torn apart by hate and hate in itself does far more damage to the one who hates than the hated.
He seems to want all the attention but at some point his desire will end with him being a very unhappy and unfulfilled person
He and it is sad
I broadly agree about the public reaction, and it's odd that Cummings is so bad at judging what will have an impact. I couldn't be bothered to read his long diatribe yesterday, and I suppose I'm in the 5% most interested in politics. If he'd restricted himself to one paragraph describing Johnson's view of Hancock, it would have been more effective.
Which doesn't mean that I disbelieve him, or think that we have a competent government. With some exceptions, we really don't. If we accept that Johnson said what he's reported as saying, do we think that he'd studied the evidence of Hancock's record and come to a fair view? Of course not.
Cummings isn't bad at judging what has an impact. This will have an impact but not instantly and Cummings will know this better than anyone. He is systematically destroying the Boris brand. He's turning him from amiable buffoon to something else. It just takes time. These are just the building blocks. There will be no Ratner moment and Cummings knows it. Anyone who can hoodwink a country of 70 million people with a Red Bus should NOT be underestimated
I am not at all sure Cummings will have any effect outside the political bubble, not least as he is one of the most discredited people in the country and in a recent poll Hancock poll twice Cummings on trust
His diatribe of hate is sad and of course releasing 'Whats app' messages might be par for the course for him, but they only reveal his utter hatred for Hancock and that Boris uses industrial language. Indeed that us unlikely to do any harm to Boris as thousands, even millions, would have considerable sympathy for a PM facing the worst crisis since WW2 swearing or uttering an oath or two
He strikes me as someone being torn apart by hate and hate in itself does far more damage to the one who hates than the hated.
He seems to want all the attention but at some point his desire will end with him being a very unhappy and unfulfilled person
He and it is sad
You do of course support the "fucking useless" SofS for Health who has once again just lied to the parliamentary committee.
Excuse me why the language and how can I remove Hancock, in fact of late I think he is doing a reasonable but immensely difficult task
A direct quote from your party leader the Prime Minister. Can you remove him? No. Can you say he is unfit for office? Yes.
Hong Kong police arrested five executives of the pro-democracy Apple Daily newspaper with a warrant to seize journalistic materials for the first time, in the latest blow to Jimmy Lai, the tabloid's owner and a staunch Beijing critic https://reut.rs/2S8PBY4
As soon as he's released Jimmy Lai needs to get out of Hong Kong with his family, and come to Britain. He has a British passport. He can then publish Apple Daily in exile with his lists of dissidents and contacts.
It will be hard for him, as he's lived in Hong Kong almost his whole life, but ultimately he'll be tortured and even killed if he continues there.
On Tuesday a whole group of parents started getting pinged on the Covid App to isolate. At a kids football match on Saturday one of the visiting team/parents had Covid and all those who were in the area were asked to isolate. All the kids who were there had to come home from school. I've not heard of any of them (parents or kids) testing positive yet but does seem to show the App is working. I think a lot of people had thought we were through it all and it has been quite a wake up call.
The other anecdote is much more worrying. Couple of parents I know were out in our local nature reserve. They met another family and one of their children was coughing. The parent said he just has a "touch of Covid". They thought they were joking but then it became clear that they were not. The child had Covid and they were out and about. I can't quite believe how stupid some people are.
It does back up the obvious picture of infections growing. I do wonder though from looking at the last 2 weeks data whether the pace of growth is declining.
Growth is declining which is great but Delta Covid is still very, very regional.
One thing many people are not aware of is the split nature of the autumn winter wave. The North of England had a big October wave and then a similarly sized or smaller winter wave. The south of England had a modest October wave then an absolutely gigantic winter wave. London is the most pronounced of that.
So what we are seeing is Delta fading in the North West and not absolutely catching fire elsewhere. But there is still the possibility of an ignition.
To be honest, I think it has ignited almost everywhere else - but cannot burn/spread anywhere near as fast as the earlier waves, despite being by far the most infectious version yet.
In the North West and the hotspots, it's fallen well off the exponential growth part. With exponentially growing variables, they always end up following an S-curve when they get to the point where they can't infect as widely. This can be from exhaustion of potential host pool, or from behavioural change of the potential hosts (moving more separately).
I suspect the latter (because the primary driver of the outbreak is in the 20-29s, and they have neither been widely vaccinated enough two weeks earlier, nor had enough infections to exhaust the pool against a much higher R rate. However, while we know behavioural change tends to be temporary (when the worry subsides, people move back to earlier behaviour), the vaccination status of more and more in that group is flipping to "protected," so by the time that happens, I'd expect the former (exhaustion of host pool) to be valid, anyway.
In the other areas, even with widely vaccinated populations, we're seeing it in the very early stages of take-off (again, concentrated in the twenties). Again, and as we see anecdotal evidence presented, people aren't very worried, so behavioural patterns allow that. However, whilst it's catching fire, we're pouring water on the entire area of wood that it's reaching for, and it looks to be too late for it to really go for it in those areas. That pool of potential hosts is collapsing even as it's reaching out for it.
The big saving grace of all this is how late the virus left it (I know, it's kind of ascribing agency to it, when it has none). Had it done this two months earlier, or three months, or had Alpha been Delta, we'd have been screwed. I mean, run the figures and it looks very much like even the first lockdown would have been insufficient to reduce R below about 1.2 to 1.3 - it would have continued exponential growth even in lockdown unless we'd tightened it yet further.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
I assume you ignored the evidence provided on here that the actual Delta version was not identified by the dates Starmer quoted
Technically I doubt that is true? (when we hear yesterday that variants that theWHO are working on are currently up to Kappa). Just it hadn’t been identified as a “variant of concern”
Your last sentence is the important one, it had not been identified as a variant of concern at the dates Starmer used at PMQs yesterday
When it was, the border was closed and of course closing out border was closing it to thousands of our fellow Brits returning home
PB is not the place to use that blather.
Because PBers were saying that travel with India had to be stopped ten days before it was.
And the "who will think of the Brits abroad" is yet more bollox.
The government should have said back in March 2020 that anyone who leaves this country does so at their own risk and is liable to being stranded without warning.
There is a difference between demands to close the borders, and the science to do so and it is clear the Delta had not been identified by the scientist as a 'variant of concern' either in March or at the dates mentioned by Starmer
I am fairly certain HMG warned against all foreign travel at the time
Very much so. Opposition during a pandemic isn’t the easiest of jobs, but Starmer and co don’t even seem to be trying.
They should be on the TV morning, noon and night with stories of people who can say they’ve been let down by the government during the pandemic and slipped through the cracks of the various schemes. But they only ever speak to union members and public sector workers, who are pretty much all doing just fine...
When the extension legislation comes up next week, they need to propose an unreasonable amendment, as a reason to vote down the bill without it - and see if they can get it to fall with enough Tory libertarian rebels. But they won’t, because they really don’t understand how Parliamentary politics works.
Sandpit is always sensible so this deserves a serious reply.
(1) Getting on TV is difficult, even for the official Opposition, unless you say something off the wall. There is absolutely no way we could organise a stream of people on TV saying they've been let down.
(2) The tactics Sandpit suggests are exactly the sort of thing that the Tories and some Labour oppositions would do (Miliband's successful ambush of the Syrian bombing policy is a good example) and the antithesis of Starmer's approach to constructive opposition, since the outcome would be the collapse of restrictions and the Opposition held responsible for the subsequent increase in infections.
There is a cynical case for irresponsible opposition. Attack at every turn, regardless of the facts, and pick up the disgruntled on all sides. Then go responsible when the election comes round. It might work. But you'd need a different leader for it, and (if you think that continuing restrictions on Covid are necessary) you'd need to accept a lot of deaths as collateral damage.
I did start by pointing out that opposition during a pandemic isn’t an easy job!
The surprise is that there’s been almost no criticism at all, of the government’s handling of the pandemic. You’re completely right that constant and cynical opposition wouldn’t work in the face of what’s a natural disaster, but a few carefully-picked battles might at least have got them in the news and forced changes in policy. Finding areas where there’s a lot of Government-party rebels in Parliament, and using them to force a change or amendment, has always been a fair opposition tactic. Instead, we know that Starmer cares about wallpaper and trans rights.
Those who have fallen through the cracks are the self-employed and small-business directors, especially those in startup companies with no history of revenues and taxes. There’s been almost no mention of them, and they don’t appear to have any politicians trying to get their story out there.
Even by the start of May, Cummings said, the government had still not adopted a “wartime mentality” and when the prime minister chaired important meetings, Johnson would ramble and tell jokes.
“As soon as things get ‘a bit embarrassing’ [he] does the whole ‘let’s take it offline’ shtick before shouting ‘forward to victory’, doing a thumbs up and pegging it out of the room before anybody can disagree.”
People shouldn't tell jokes in wartime? Best tell that to every army in existence ever.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
Borders were "left open" if by that you mean that there has always throughout this crisis been some flights coming in. The volume, however, has been greatly reduced.
For all this period foreign nationals have been allowed to travel in, with conditions, while UK citizens have mostly been barred from leaving the country (with some occupational/specific situation exemptions). Putting it another way, the UK government has disadvantaged its own citizens verses citizens of other countries - a factor to examine in any public enquiry I would think.
"Closing the borders" is a simplistic term used by those looking for a scapegoat (who often have no desire to leave the county themselves but are relishing clipping the wings of those that do). Not even Aus and NZ closed borders entirely. The virus with all its variants will find a way in anyway.
We are (finally) doing what Aus and NZ have successfully done. Previously we allowed flights to come in from pox-ridden countries and not even do basic checks or take details of passengers. Don't quote the locator form at me, ineffective and not even partially implemented. Pox was walked freely across the UK border from India or elsewhere to infect us here. That is what Big_G claims is the border not being left open.
Now? You can fly in from poxland. Stand in a long queue of passengers at the border to spread the pox to people arriving from "safer" countries. And then be taken off to a quarantine hotel. Its as good as we're going to manage and could have been done far far sooner. The pox was in India, we knew it, Shagger wouldn't shut them down because trade mission. Which is how the Indian variant - now Delta - got here.
Thanks. I managed to miss this last night as well. Rishi is extremely articulate and very comfortable dealing with the debate. Some of his answers are verging on the glib and there is no doubt at all that the pressure on public spending is going to be immense for at least a decade but he gives the impression of having a clear over view which gives some confidence.
A good interview all round although the set was once again pretty dismal.
GBnews sets are dreadful and they need to address them and their technical glitches
Regardless of any other merit, the Sunak interview got GB News into the papers, which was probably its main aim.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 8h This is the most uncomfortable I’ve seen Rishi Sunak in quite a while.
Sunak fans should pause and watch the clip Dan Hodges has there. Looking well under pressure over £10K bill for new boilers for every family.
As Sunak says, what £10k bill? He rightly pointed out that (a) "costs" always get balanced against "opportunity" and whatever the cost is now won't be the cost by the time they are rolling it out.
Isn't the problem with retrofitting heat pumps that the radiators need to be replaced by bigger ones too, because of the lower operating temperature of the system?
So, opportunity - British design and manufacturing of all these new pumps and radiators, British installation of them. Which will generate a bucket load of money for the economy.
Neil is a dinosaur, asking the tired "how much will it cost" question not interested in "how much will it save" and "how much will doing nothing cost".
The majority of voters, especially the working classes and the Red Wall, care very much about the cost.
It’s also fair to ask why the British consumer is being asked to contribute so much, when the same isn’t true of much larger countries such as the US and China.
Having spent 15 years in a red wall WC town I am aware of this. "We can't afford it" has been drilled into them by opportunistic Tories to destroy Labour as the party who wastes money. Job done, the red wall is blue. Now then, we need to hose the blue wall with money. But "we can't afford it" and "how much will it cost".
I've had punters arguing on Facebook against spending money regenerating their own high street. The more the regen progresses and the more it gets lauded by experts as the model for other towns the more they shriek about the costs.
We either invest in stuff or we stay broken and crap. There is no £10k per household bill and the people asking the question know this. As for "why us and not China" we don't live in China. Our kids don't go to school in China. People have benefited massively from various clean air measures yet so many of our kids still go to schools where they breathe polluted air. Time to do more for their sake and let China do their own thing.
I do sometimes wonder whether a form of self-hatred or Stockholm syndrome has taken over with elements of the English working class. It's like they don't think they deserve any better. Even Brexit - touted as the second peasants' revolt by folk on here, seems to be more about hurting other people (foreigners, Londoners, the 'metropolitan elite') than anything else.
I suspect a lot of them want "higher wages" and by removing a pool of cheap accessible labour from the market they may very well get them.
And people think they're thick....
Will be a test of whether Lump of Labour is in fact a fallacy. As it has been accepted wisdom amongst economists since the nineteenth century, I don't expect Brexit Britain to break the mould. However there is likely to be a lag until demand and supply of labour stabilise. It is also likely to hit industries in different ways. For hospitality I expect wages to rise, the number of establishments to fall and the number of people who can afford to eat and drink at these places also to fall.
Nothing about that means anyone is thick of course.
Regardless of any other merit, the Sunak interview got GB News into the papers, which was probably its main aim.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 8h This is the most uncomfortable I’ve seen Rishi Sunak in quite a while.
Sunak fans should pause and watch the clip Dan Hodges has there. Looking well under pressure over £10K bill for new boilers for every family.
As Sunak says, what £10k bill? He rightly pointed out that (a) "costs" always get balanced against "opportunity" and whatever the cost is now won't be the cost by the time they are rolling it out.
Isn't the problem with retrofitting heat pumps that the radiators need to be replaced by bigger ones too, because of the lower operating temperature of the system?
So, opportunity - British design and manufacturing of all these new pumps and radiators, British installation of them. Which will generate a bucket load of money for the economy.
Neil is a dinosaur, asking the tired "how much will it cost" question not interested in "how much will it save" and "how much will doing nothing cost".
The majority of voters, especially the working classes and the Red Wall, care very much about the cost.
It’s also fair to ask why the British consumer is being asked to contribute so much, when the same isn’t true of much larger countries such as the US and China.
Having spent 15 years in a red wall WC town I am aware of this. "We can't afford it" has been drilled into them by opportunistic Tories to destroy Labour as the party who wastes money. Job done, the red wall is blue. Now then, we need to hose the blue wall with money. But "we can't afford it" and "how much will it cost".
I've had punters arguing on Facebook against spending money regenerating their own high street. The more the regen progresses and the more it gets lauded by experts as the model for other towns the more they shriek about the costs.
We either invest in stuff or we stay broken and crap. There is no £10k per household bill and the people asking the question know this. As for "why us and not China" we don't live in China. Our kids don't go to school in China. People have benefited massively from various clean air measures yet so many of our kids still go to schools where they breathe polluted air. Time to do more for their sake and let China do their own thing.
I do sometimes wonder whether a form of self-hatred or Stockholm syndrome has taken over with elements of the English working class. It's like they don't think they deserve any better. Even Brexit - touted as the second peasants' revolt by folk on here, seems to be more about hurting other people (foreigners, Londoners, the 'metropolitan elite') than anything else. The ridiculous thing about the "we can't afford it" mantra is that if you look at who pays most of the tax in this country, it really isn't them paying for it. And they still don't want the money.
My father who was born in the 1920s to an upper middle class family used to say (which always seemed disgustingly snobby to me) that the British working class like to be led by the "officer class", i.e. those that some might regard as "toffs", and that in the army they didn't like it if an officer had "risen from the ranks". Looking at what seems for me an inexplicable appeal of Johnson in what are essentially working class seats, I am beginning to wonder if he was correct?!
Here is the thing with Boris Johnson that will eventually (if it hasn't already) catch up with him. Lack of leadership skills. I know all the fanbois will keep going on about the elections he has won, but as I have said before, that was the interview, not the job. Some are good at bullshitting interviewers, and Johnson is such.
If ever there were a stronger evidence of Johnson's lack of leadership it is this: The man he leaves in place as Sec of State for Health, in a pandemic no less, he describes as "totally fucking hopeless", and in spite of this analysis (which in part might be psychological projection), he leaves him in place. That really is totally fucking hopeless!
I am largely sympathetic to that view, but Hancock's job was quite the most difficult job for any post war cabinet minister and recently he has been better
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
Borders were "left open" if by that you mean that there has always throughout this crisis been some flights coming in. The volume, however, has been greatly reduced.
For all this period foreign nationals have been allowed to travel in, with conditions, while UK citizens have mostly been barred from leaving the country (with some occupational/specific situation exemptions). Putting it another way, the UK government has disadvantaged its own citizens verses citizens of other countries - a factor to examine in any public enquiry I would think.
"Closing the borders" is a simplistic term used by those looking for a scapegoat (who often have no desire to leave the county themselves but are relishing clipping the wings of those that do). Not even Aus and NZ closed borders entirely. The virus with all its variants will find a way in anyway.
We are (finally) doing what Aus and NZ have successfully done. Previously we allowed flights to come in from pox-ridden countries and not even do basic checks or take details of passengers. Don't quote the locator form at me, ineffective and not even partially implemented. Pox was walked freely across the UK border from India or elsewhere to infect us here. That is what Big_G claims is the border not being left open.
Now? You can fly in from poxland. Stand in a long queue of passengers at the border to spread the pox to people arriving from "safer" countries. And then be taken off to a quarantine hotel. Its as good as we're going to manage and could have been done far far sooner. The pox was in India, we knew it, Shagger wouldn't shut them down because trade mission. Which is how the Indian variant - now Delta - got here.
Delta was always going to get here.
"Now? You can fly in from poxland." - yes but you realise that the only people allowed to fly in have already tested negative for Covid before departure point?
On Tuesday a whole group of parents started getting pinged on the Covid App to isolate. At a kids football match on Saturday one of the visiting team/parents had Covid and all those who were in the area were asked to isolate. All the kids who were there had to come home from school. I've not heard of any of them (parents or kids) testing positive yet but does seem to show the App is working. I think a lot of people had thought we were through it all and it has been quite a wake up call.
The other anecdote is much more worrying. Couple of parents I know were out in our local nature reserve. They met another family and one of their children was coughing. The parent said he just has a "touch of Covid". They thought they were joking but then it became clear that they were not. The child had Covid and they were out and about. I can't quite believe how stupid some people are.
It does back up the obvious picture of infections growing. I do wonder though from looking at the last 2 weeks data whether the pace of growth is declining.
Growth is declining which is great but Delta Covid is still very, very regional.
One thing many people are not aware of is the split nature of the autumn winter wave. The North of England had a big October wave and then a similarly sized or smaller winter wave. The south of England had a modest October wave then an absolutely gigantic winter wave. London is the most pronounced of that.
So what we are seeing is Delta fading in the North West and not absolutely catching fire elsewhere. But there is still the possibility of an ignition.
To be honest, I think it has ignited almost everywhere else - but cannot burn/spread anywhere near as fast as the earlier waves, despite being by far the most infectious version yet.
In the North West and the hotspots, it's fallen well off the exponential growth part. With exponentially growing variables, they always end up following an S-curve when they get to the point where they can't infect as widely. This can be from exhaustion of potential host pool, or from behavioural change of the potential hosts (moving more separately).
I suspect the latter (because the primary driver of the outbreak is in the 20-29s, and they have neither been widely vaccinated enough two weeks earlier, nor had enough infections to exhaust the pool against a much higher R rate. However, while we know behavioural change tends to be temporary (when the worry subsides, people move back to earlier behaviour), the vaccination status of more and more in that group is flipping to "protected," so by the time that happens, I'd expect the former (exhaustion of host pool) to be valid, anyway.
In the other areas, even with widely vaccinated populations, we're seeing it in the very early stages of take-off (again, concentrated in the twenties). Again, and as we see anecdotal evidence presented, people aren't very worried, so behavioural patterns allow that. However, whilst it's catching fire, we're pouring water on the entire area of wood that it's reaching for, and it looks to be too late for it to really go for it in those areas. That pool of potential hosts is collapsing even as it's reaching out for it.
The big saving grace of all this is how late the virus left it (I know, it's kind of ascribing agency to it, when it has none). Had it done this two months earlier, or three months, or had Alpha been Delta, we'd have been screwed. I mean, run the figures and it looks very much like even the first lockdown would have been insufficient to reduce R below about 1.2 to 1.3 - it would have continued exponential growth even in lockdown unless we'd tightened it yet further.
I think the most encouraging thing is that infection curves are flattening quicker and at lower levels in the districts hit a month after the original hotspots.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
I assume you ignored the evidence provided on here that the actual Delta version was not identified by the dates Starmer quoted
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
Borders were "left open" if by that you mean that there has always throughout this crisis been some flights coming in. The volume, however, has been greatly reduced.
For all this period foreign nationals have been allowed to travel in, with conditions, while UK citizens have mostly been barred from leaving the country (with some occupational/specific situation exemptions). Putting it another way, the UK government has disadvantaged its own citizens verses citizens of other countries - a factor to examine in any public enquiry I would think.
"Closing the borders" is a simplistic term used by those looking for a scapegoat (who often have no desire to leave the county themselves but are relishing clipping the wings of those that do). Not even Aus and NZ closed borders entirely. The virus with all its variants will find a way in anyway.
We are (finally) doing what Aus and NZ have successfully done. Previously we allowed flights to come in from pox-ridden countries and not even do basic checks or take details of passengers. Don't quote the locator form at me, ineffective and not even partially implemented. Pox was walked freely across the UK border from India or elsewhere to infect us here. That is what Big_G claims is the border not being left open.
Now? You can fly in from poxland. Stand in a long queue of passengers at the border to spread the pox to people arriving from "safer" countries. And then be taken off to a quarantine hotel. Its as good as we're going to manage and could have been done far far sooner. The pox was in India, we knew it, Shagger wouldn't shut them down because trade mission. Which is how the Indian variant - now Delta - got here.
Delta was always going to get here.
"Now? You can fly in from poxland." - yes but you realise that the only people allowed to fly in have already tested negative for Covid before departure point?
We all know that gold standard or not, PCR is not remotely definitive. Sadly. I am not saying any of these decisions are easy. My argument is always that logic has to be applied. If x then x. We shut down entry from Pakistan and Bangladesh but left open India whose case rate per million was 2 - 4x higher than those countries. Arguments over "ah but they only defined Delta weeks later" are irrelevant. Indians were dying en masse from Covid regardless of whether we had managed to pin down the exact strain by then.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
I assume you ignored the evidence provided on here that the actual Delta version was not identified by the dates Starmer quoted
Indeed. As the chart shows, the argument on 9th April to Red List Bangladesh and Pakistan but not India was obvious...
The concern on April 9 was prevalence of the SA variant in Pakistan and Bangladesh.
Yes, we should have controlled our border with India sooner, but not because we knew about the Delta variant - we didn't - which wasn't identified until weeks later.
Thanks. I managed to miss this last night as well. Rishi is extremely articulate and very comfortable dealing with the debate. Some of his answers are verging on the glib and there is no doubt at all that the pressure on public spending is going to be immense for at least a decade but he gives the impression of having a clear over view which gives some confidence.
A good interview all round although the set was once again pretty dismal.
GBnews sets are dreadful and they need to address them and their technical glitches
It’s definitely been thrown together in short order. The set is clearly not finished properly, and the crew haven’t had sufficient time to get used to their equipment.
Every producer should know you never have a live feed of public comments going straight to presenters, otherwise Hugh Janus and Mike Hunt will be messaging in all the time.
Still no YouTube live feed either, only the crap jittery Simplestream one on their own website.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
I assume you ignored the evidence provided on here that the actual Delta version was not identified by the dates Starmer quoted
Technically I doubt that is true? (when we hear yesterday that variants that theWHO are working on are currently up to Kappa). Just it hadn’t been identified as a “variant of concern”
Your last sentence is the important one, it had not been identified as a variant of concern at the dates Starmer used at PMQs yesterday
When it was, the border was closed and of course closing out border was closing it to thousands of our fellow Brits returning home
PB is not the place to use that blather.
Because PBers were saying that travel with India had to be stopped ten days before it was.
And the "who will think of the Brits abroad" is yet more bollox.
The government should have said back in March 2020 that anyone who leaves this country does so at their own risk and is liable to being stranded without warning.
There is a difference between demands to close the borders, and the science to do so and it is clear the Delta had not been identified by the scientist as a 'variant of concern' either in March or at the dates mentioned by Starmer
I am fairly certain HMG warned against all foreign travel at the time
Its irrelevant whether Delta had been identified at that time.
We know that infections were rising fast in India and that the reports were very ominous.
Yet the government did nothing for two vital weeks.
Very much so. Opposition during a pandemic isn’t the easiest of jobs, but Starmer and co don’t even seem to be trying.
They should be on the TV morning, noon and night with stories of people who can say they’ve been let down by the government during the pandemic and slipped through the cracks of the various schemes. But they only ever speak to union members and public sector workers, who are pretty much all doing just fine...
When the extension legislation comes up next week, they need to propose an unreasonable amendment, as a reason to vote down the bill without it - and see if they can get it to fall with enough Tory libertarian rebels. But they won’t, because they really don’t understand how Parliamentary politics works.
Sandpit is always sensible so this deserves a serious reply.
(1) Getting on TV is difficult, even for the official Opposition, unless you say something off the wall. There is absolutely no way we could organise a stream of people on TV saying they've been let down.
(2) The tactics Sandpit suggests are exactly the sort of thing that the Tories and some Labour oppositions would do (Miliband's successful ambush of the Syrian bombing policy is a good example) and the antithesis of Starmer's approach to constructive opposition, since the outcome would be the collapse of restrictions and the Opposition held responsible for the subsequent increase in infections.
There is a cynical case for irresponsible opposition. Attack at every turn, regardless of the facts, and pick up the disgruntled on all sides. Then go responsible when the election comes round. It might work. But you'd need a different leader for it, and (if you think that continuing restrictions on Covid are necessary) you'd need to accept a lot of deaths as collateral damage.
I did start by pointing out that opposition during a pandemic isn’t an easy job!
The surprise is that there’s been almost no criticism at all, of the government’s handling of the pandemic. You’re completely right that constant and cynical opposition wouldn’t work in the face of what’s a natural disaster, but a few carefully-picked battles might at least have got them in the news and forced changes in policy. Finding areas where there’s a lot of Government-party rebels in Parliament, and using them to force a change or amendment, has always been a fair opposition tactic. Instead, we know that Starmer cares about wallpaper and trans rights.
Those who have fallen through the cracks are the self-employed and small-business directors, especially those in startup companies with no history of revenues and taxes. There’s been almost no mention of them, and they don’t appear to have any politicians trying to get their story out there.
To be fair, there have been criticisms, and a lot of them have been pretty precient. School lunches fiasco, botching December (remember how Scrooge Starmer wanted to cancel Christmas?), stingy isolation support, cockups galore at education...
And to be fair to the public, they listened enough to gradually push the Conservative poll ratings below Labour's at the end of 2020. But then came the vaccines, which gave the government a huge boost, some of which they even deserved.
So what happens next? Which is the truer measure of the government? Now or six months ago? Given that more things will be run by Johnson and his ministers than by Kate Bingham, I'd go with then over now.
One complication in predicting Boris's exit is that unlike Mrs Thatcher, Boris will probably *want* to retire to spend more time with his family and people who can write big cheques.
I have some sympathy with this proposition but I don't wholly agree with it. Johnson and NutNut clearly revel in the trappings of high office and want to keep enjoying them as long as possible. He marched thousands of Britons to the their graves just because he was desperate for the polychromatic pageantry of a trip to India.
Johnson's third VVIP aircraft is currently being fitted out in Bordeaux. Despite Brexit.
Thousands to their graves? how many have died since April 1st? How many of those had actually been abroad to India or lived with someone who did? Most of the new cases in the latest 'surge' are in the young, and they are not dying.
So that would mean infections 5-6 days prior. So like 1/2nd June.
Around the time the security staff and event crew started arriving, yes...
A couple of hundred security staff or tens of thousands of holiday makers?
This increase is pre-G7. Much larger surge than previous holiday weeks. Probably due to Delta passing much more easily between individuals; far less contact being required. Data suggests it’s 2.4 times easier to catch than last year’s edition. Also, single dose only 33% efficacy.
People expected the Dom Affair to end badly, but this really is spectacular. The strange thing is that Hancock is one of the less incompetent members of the cabinet, including Johnson himself.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
Borders were "left open" if by that you mean that there has always throughout this crisis been some flights coming in. The volume, however, has been greatly reduced.
For all this period foreign nationals have been allowed to travel in, with conditions, while UK citizens have mostly been barred from leaving the country (with some occupational/specific situation exemptions). Putting it another way, the UK government has disadvantaged its own citizens verses citizens of other countries - a factor to examine in any public enquiry I would think.
"Closing the borders" is a simplistic term used by those looking for a scapegoat (who often have no desire to leave the county themselves but are relishing clipping the wings of those that do). Not even Aus and NZ closed borders entirely. The virus with all its variants will find a way in anyway.
We are (finally) doing what Aus and NZ have successfully done. Previously we allowed flights to come in from pox-ridden countries and not even do basic checks or take details of passengers. Don't quote the locator form at me, ineffective and not even partially implemented. Pox was walked freely across the UK border from India or elsewhere to infect us here. That is what Big_G claims is the border not being left open.
Now? You can fly in from poxland. Stand in a long queue of passengers at the border to spread the pox to people arriving from "safer" countries. And then be taken off to a quarantine hotel. Its as good as we're going to manage and could have been done far far sooner. The pox was in India, we knew it, Shagger wouldn't shut them down because trade mission. Which is how the Indian variant - now Delta - got here.
Delta was always going to get here.
"Now? You can fly in from poxland." - yes but you realise that the only people allowed to fly in have already tested negative for Covid before departure point?
We all know that gold standard or not, PCR is not remotely definitive. Sadly. I am not saying any of these decisions are easy. My argument is always that logic has to be applied. If x then x. We shut down entry from Pakistan and Bangladesh but left open India whose case rate per million was 2 - 4x higher than those countries. Arguments over "ah but they only defined Delta weeks later" are irrelevant. Indians were dying en masse from Covid regardless of whether we had managed to pin down the exact strain by then.
The action of closing our borders had to be a result of Sage identifying Delta as a variant of concern
Please quote the evidence and timeline to HMG when they did that and when the border closed
It is easy to blame Boris and HMG but neither Boris or HMG could take this step without scientists and sages backing
And of course the enquiry in years to come will provide the conclusion on this part of the covid story
Regardless of any other merit, the Sunak interview got GB News into the papers, which was probably its main aim.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 8h This is the most uncomfortable I’ve seen Rishi Sunak in quite a while.
Sunak fans should pause and watch the clip Dan Hodges has there. Looking well under pressure over £10K bill for new boilers for every family.
As Sunak says, what £10k bill? He rightly pointed out that (a) "costs" always get balanced against "opportunity" and whatever the cost is now won't be the cost by the time they are rolling it out.
Isn't the problem with retrofitting heat pumps that the radiators need to be replaced by bigger ones too, because of the lower operating temperature of the system?
So, opportunity - British design and manufacturing of all these new pumps and radiators, British installation of them. Which will generate a bucket load of money for the economy.
Neil is a dinosaur, asking the tired "how much will it cost" question not interested in "how much will it save" and "how much will doing nothing cost".
The majority of voters, especially the working classes and the Red Wall, care very much about the cost.
It’s also fair to ask why the British consumer is being asked to contribute so much, when the same isn’t true of much larger countries such as the US and China.
Having spent 15 years in a red wall WC town I am aware of this. "We can't afford it" has been drilled into them by opportunistic Tories to destroy Labour as the party who wastes money. Job done, the red wall is blue. Now then, we need to hose the blue wall with money. But "we can't afford it" and "how much will it cost".
I've had punters arguing on Facebook against spending money regenerating their own high street. The more the regen progresses and the more it gets lauded by experts as the model for other towns the more they shriek about the costs.
We either invest in stuff or we stay broken and crap. There is no £10k per household bill and the people asking the question know this. As for "why us and not China" we don't live in China. Our kids don't go to school in China. People have benefited massively from various clean air measures yet so many of our kids still go to schools where they breathe polluted air. Time to do more for their sake and let China do their own thing.
I do sometimes wonder whether a form of self-hatred or Stockholm syndrome has taken over with elements of the English working class. It's like they don't think they deserve any better. Even Brexit - touted as the second peasants' revolt by folk on here, seems to be more about hurting other people (foreigners, Londoners, the 'metropolitan elite') than anything else. The ridiculous thing about the "we can't afford it" mantra is that if you look at who pays most of the tax in this country, it really isn't them paying for it. And they still don't want the money.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
I assume you ignored the evidence provided on here that the actual Delta version was not identified by the dates Starmer quoted
Indeed. As the chart shows, the argument on 9th April to Red List Bangladesh and Pakistan but not India was obvious...
The concern on April 9 was prevalence of the SA variant in Pakistan and Bangladesh.
Yes, we should have controlled our border with India sooner, but not because we knew about the Delta variant - we didn't - which wasn't identified until weeks later.
Indeed - they only identified and labelled it afterwards. Indians were dying in vast numbers of Covid. And we did nothing. Because the PM had a scheduled trade trip and didn't want to justify skipping 2 weeks of hotel quarantine.
Regardless of any other merit, the Sunak interview got GB News into the papers, which was probably its main aim.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 8h This is the most uncomfortable I’ve seen Rishi Sunak in quite a while.
Sunak fans should pause and watch the clip Dan Hodges has there. Looking well under pressure over £10K bill for new boilers for every family.
As Sunak says, what £10k bill? He rightly pointed out that (a) "costs" always get balanced against "opportunity" and whatever the cost is now won't be the cost by the time they are rolling it out.
Isn't the problem with retrofitting heat pumps that the radiators need to be replaced by bigger ones too, because of the lower operating temperature of the system?
So, opportunity - British design and manufacturing of all these new pumps and radiators, British installation of them. Which will generate a bucket load of money for the economy.
Neil is a dinosaur, asking the tired "how much will it cost" question not interested in "how much will it save" and "how much will doing nothing cost".
The majority of voters, especially the working classes and the Red Wall, care very much about the cost.
It’s also fair to ask why the British consumer is being asked to contribute so much, when the same isn’t true of much larger countries such as the US and China.
Having spent 15 years in a red wall WC town I am aware of this. "We can't afford it" has been drilled into them by opportunistic Tories to destroy Labour as the party who wastes money. Job done, the red wall is blue. Now then, we need to hose the blue wall with money. But "we can't afford it" and "how much will it cost".
I've had punters arguing on Facebook against spending money regenerating their own high street. The more the regen progresses and the more it gets lauded by experts as the model for other towns the more they shriek about the costs.
We either invest in stuff or we stay broken and crap. There is no £10k per household bill and the people asking the question know this. As for "why us and not China" we don't live in China. Our kids don't go to school in China. People have benefited massively from various clean air measures yet so many of our kids still go to schools where they breathe polluted air. Time to do more for their sake and let China do their own thing.
I do sometimes wonder whether a form of self-hatred or Stockholm syndrome has taken over with elements of the English working class. It's like they don't think they deserve any better. Even Brexit - touted as the second peasants' revolt by folk on here, seems to be more about hurting other people (foreigners, Londoners, the 'metropolitan elite') than anything else. The ridiculous thing about the "we can't afford it" mantra is that if you look at who pays most of the tax in this country, it really isn't them paying for it. And they still don't want the money.
My father who was born in the 1920s to an upper middle class family used to say (which always seemed disgustingly snobby to me) that the British working class like to be led by the "officer class", i.e. those that some might regard as "toffs", and that in the army they didn't like it if an officer had "risen from the ranks". Looking at what seems for me an inexplicable appeal of Johnson in what are essentially working class seats, I am beginning to wonder if he was correct?!
Brexit has lead to higher wages for working people, reduced immigration, greater investment in the north, and a rethink in Westminster on taking the sociocultural concerns of those outside the big cities seriously.
As far as they're concerned voting for Brexit has worked perfectly.
On Tuesday a whole group of parents started getting pinged on the Covid App to isolate. At a kids football match on Saturday one of the visiting team/parents had Covid and all those who were in the area were asked to isolate. All the kids who were there had to come home from school. I've not heard of any of them (parents or kids) testing positive yet but does seem to show the App is working. I think a lot of people had thought we were through it all and it has been quite a wake up call.
The other anecdote is much more worrying. Couple of parents I know were out in our local nature reserve. They met another family and one of their children was coughing. The parent said he just has a "touch of Covid". They thought they were joking but then it became clear that they were not. The child had Covid and they were out and about. I can't quite believe how stupid some people are.
It does back up the obvious picture of infections growing. I do wonder though from looking at the last 2 weeks data whether the pace of growth is declining.
Growth is declining which is great but Delta Covid is still very, very regional.
One thing many people are not aware of is the split nature of the autumn winter wave. The North of England had a big October wave and then a similarly sized or smaller winter wave. The south of England had a modest October wave then an absolutely gigantic winter wave. London is the most pronounced of that.
So what we are seeing is Delta fading in the North West and not absolutely catching fire elsewhere. But there is still the possibility of an ignition.
To be honest, I think it has ignited almost everywhere else - but cannot burn/spread anywhere near as fast as the earlier waves, despite being by far the most infectious version yet.
In the North West and the hotspots, it's fallen well off the exponential growth part. With exponentially growing variables, they always end up following an S-curve when they get to the point where they can't infect as widely. This can be from exhaustion of potential host pool, or from behavioural change of the potential hosts (moving more separately).
I suspect the latter (because the primary driver of the outbreak is in the 20-29s, and they have neither been widely vaccinated enough two weeks earlier, nor had enough infections to exhaust the pool against a much higher R rate. However, while we know behavioural change tends to be temporary (when the worry subsides, people move back to earlier behaviour), the vaccination status of more and more in that group is flipping to "protected," so by the time that happens, I'd expect the former (exhaustion of host pool) to be valid, anyway.
In the other areas, even with widely vaccinated populations, we're seeing it in the very early stages of take-off (again, concentrated in the twenties). Again, and as we see anecdotal evidence presented, people aren't very worried, so behavioural patterns allow that. However, whilst it's catching fire, we're pouring water on the entire area of wood that it's reaching for, and it looks to be too late for it to really go for it in those areas. That pool of potential hosts is collapsing even as it's reaching out for it.
The big saving grace of all this is how late the virus left it (I know, it's kind of ascribing agency to it, when it has none). Had it done this two months earlier, or three months, or had Alpha been Delta, we'd have been screwed. I mean, run the figures and it looks very much like even the first lockdown would have been insufficient to reduce R below about 1.2 to 1.3 - it would have continued exponential growth even in lockdown unless we'd tightened it yet further.
I think the most encouraging thing is that infection curves are flattening quicker and at lower levels in the districts hit a month after the original hotspots.
That'd march with the behavioural change hypothesis. People are more alert and keyed up to see and react to a local rise being reported (via anecdote, often); they're half-expecting to see it.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
Borders were "left open" if by that you mean that there has always throughout this crisis been some flights coming in. The volume, however, has been greatly reduced.
For all this period foreign nationals have been allowed to travel in, with conditions, while UK citizens have mostly been barred from leaving the country (with some occupational/specific situation exemptions). Putting it another way, the UK government has disadvantaged its own citizens verses citizens of other countries - a factor to examine in any public enquiry I would think.
"Closing the borders" is a simplistic term used by those looking for a scapegoat (who often have no desire to leave the county themselves but are relishing clipping the wings of those that do). Not even Aus and NZ closed borders entirely. The virus with all its variants will find a way in anyway.
We are (finally) doing what Aus and NZ have successfully done. Previously we allowed flights to come in from pox-ridden countries and not even do basic checks or take details of passengers. Don't quote the locator form at me, ineffective and not even partially implemented. Pox was walked freely across the UK border from India or elsewhere to infect us here. That is what Big_G claims is the border not being left open.
Now? You can fly in from poxland. Stand in a long queue of passengers at the border to spread the pox to people arriving from "safer" countries. And then be taken off to a quarantine hotel. Its as good as we're going to manage and could have been done far far sooner. The pox was in India, we knew it, Shagger wouldn't shut them down because trade mission. Which is how the Indian variant - now Delta - got here.
Delta was always going to get here.
"Now? You can fly in from poxland." - yes but you realise that the only people allowed to fly in have already tested negative for Covid before departure point?
We all know that gold standard or not, PCR is not remotely definitive. Sadly. I am not saying any of these decisions are easy. My argument is always that logic has to be applied. If x then x. We shut down entry from Pakistan and Bangladesh but left open India whose case rate per million was 2 - 4x higher than those countries. Arguments over "ah but they only defined Delta weeks later" are irrelevant. Indians were dying en masse from Covid regardless of whether we had managed to pin down the exact strain by then.
The action of closing our borders had to be a result of Sage identifying Delta as a variant of concern
Please quote the evidence and timeline to HMG when they did that and when the border closed
It is easy to blame Boris and HMG but neither Boris or HMG could take this step without scientists and sages backing
And of course the enquiry in years to come will provide the conclusion on this part of the covid story
"The action of closing our borders had to be a result of Sage identifying Delta as a variant of concern" - so we shut the borders to Pakistan and Bangladesh because Sage identified Delta in them?
Its. Laughable. Mate. You will defend literally anything.
Thanks. I managed to miss this last night as well. Rishi is extremely articulate and very comfortable dealing with the debate. Some of his answers are verging on the glib and there is no doubt at all that the pressure on public spending is going to be immense for at least a decade but he gives the impression of having a clear over view which gives some confidence.
A good interview all round although the set was once again pretty dismal.
GBnews sets are dreadful and they need to address them and their technical glitches
But, the chat is quite good.
There was a very fair discussion on White Privilege this morning with Katherine Birbalsingh, and it was very measured. Making points @rcs1000 and @MaxPB have made in a reasonable way.
There's nothing extremist about it. It's just that plenty of those on the radical Left don't want their shibboleths challenged, so they're trying to shut it down at source.
Regardless of any other merit, the Sunak interview got GB News into the papers, which was probably its main aim.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 8h This is the most uncomfortable I’ve seen Rishi Sunak in quite a while.
Sunak fans ould pause and watch the clip Dan Hodges has there. Looking well under pressure over £10K bill for new boilers for every family.
As Sunak says, what £10k bill? He rightly pointed out that (a) "costs" always get balanced against "opportunity" and whatever the cost is now won't be the cost by the time they are rolling it out.
Isn't the problem with retrofitting heat pumps that the radiators need to be replaced by bigger ones too, because of the lower operating temperature of the system?
So, opportunity - British design and manufacturing of all these new pumps and radiators, British installation of them. Which will generate a bucket load of money for the economy.
Neil is a dinosaur, asking the tired "how much will it cost" question not interested in "how much will it save" and "how much will doing nothing cost".
The majority of voters, especially the working classes and the Red Wall, care very much about the cost.
It’s also fair to ask why the British consumer is being asked to contribute so much, when the same isn’t true of much larger countries such as the US and China.
Having spent 15 years in a red wall WC town I am aware of this. "We can't afford it" has been drilled into them by opportunistic Tories to destroy Labour as the party who wastes money. Job done, the red wall is blue. Now then, we need to hose the blue wall with money. But "we can't afford it" and "how much will it cost".
I've had punters arguing on Facebook against spending money regenerating their own high street. The more the regen progresses and the more it gets lauded by experts as the model for other towns the more they shriek about the costs.
We either invest in stuff or we stay broken and crap. There is no £10k per household bill and the people asking the question know this. As for "why us and not China" we don't live in China. Our kids don't go to school in China. People have benefited massively from various clean air measures yet so many of our kids still go to schools where they breathe polluted air. Time to do more for their sake and let China do their own thing.
I do sometimes wonder whether a form of self-hatred or Stockholm syndrome has taken over with elements of the English working class. It's like they don't think they deserve any better. Even Brexit - touted as the second peasants' revolt by folk on here, seems to be more about hurting other people (foreigners, Londoners, the 'metropolitan elite') than anything else.
I suspect a lot of them want "higher wages" and by removing a pool of cheap accessible labour from the market they may very well get them.
And people think they're thick....
Yes, indeed they ARE getting them. Wages for the C2s and Ds have risen in a way not seen in the last 20 years.
It's so simple, and has happened time and time again in British history. When there are fewer people to do the skilled labour and/or the grunt work, the wages commanded for that work increase and the lot of those workers improves.
There has been a lot of magical thinking in my lifetime that immigration makes us richer and to say otherwise is somehow taboo. It increases our GDP, sure, because there are more of us. And if you're trying to employ someone you can do it more cheaply. I remember a geography GCSE question in which I was invited to discuss the benefits to the UK of immigration - the drawbacks weren't to be mentioned. But in reality it doesn't do a lot for most individual Britons.
Thanks. I managed to miss this last night as well. Rishi is extremely articulate and very comfortable dealing with the debate. Some of his answers are verging on the glib and there is no doubt at all that the pressure on public spending is going to be immense for at least a decade but he gives the impression of having a clear over view which gives some confidence.
A good interview all round although the set was once again pretty dismal.
GBnews sets are dreadful and they need to address them and their technical glitches
It’s definitely been thrown together in short order. The set is clearly not finished properly, and the crew haven’t had sufficient time to get used to their equipment.
Every producer should know you never have a live feed of public comments going straight to presenters, otherwise Hugh Janus and Mike Hunt will be messaging in all the time.
Still no YouTube live feed either, only the crap jittery Simplestream one on their own website.
Curious thing is that GBN are making these sort of mistakes that you would traditionally expect those on the left to make. Naivety about the viewing public, trying to do too much with clearly insufficient money and assuming that devotion to the cause is more important than technical competence.
Thanks. I managed to miss this last night as well. Rishi is extremely articulate and very comfortable dealing with the debate. Some of his answers are verging on the glib and there is no doubt at all that the pressure on public spending is going to be immense for at least a decade but he gives the impression of having a clear over view which gives some confidence.
A good interview all round although the set was once again pretty dismal.
GBnews sets are dreadful and they need to address them and their technical glitches
But, the chat is quite good.
There was a very fair discussion on White Privilege this morning with Katherine Birbalsingh, and it was very measured. Making points @rcs1000 and @MaxPB have made in a reasonable way.
There's nothing extremist about it. It's just that plenty of those on the radical Left don't want their shibboleths challenged, so they're trying to shut it down at source.
From the snippets I’ve seen it certainly doesn’t to be the far right news channel the stop funding hate brigade seemed to think it would be.
Thanks. I managed to miss this last night as well. Rishi is extremely articulate and very comfortable dealing with the debate. Some of his answers are verging on the glib and there is no doubt at all that the pressure on public spending is going to be immense for at least a decade but he gives the impression of having a clear over view which gives some confidence.
A good interview all round although the set was once again pretty dismal.
GBnews sets are dreadful and they need to address them and their technical glitches
It’s definitely been thrown together in short order. The set is clearly not finished properly, and the crew haven’t had sufficient time to get used to their equipment.
Every producer should know you never have a live feed of public comments going straight to presenters, otherwise Hugh Janus and Mike Hunt will be messaging in all the time.
Still no YouTube live feed either, only the crap jittery Simplestream one on their own website.
Curious thing is that GBN are making these sort of mistakes that you would traditionally expect those on the left to make. Naivety about the viewing public, trying to do too much with clearly insufficient money and assuming that devotion to the cause is more important than technical competence.
Its got to be a spoof. If my journalism school 25 years ago could manage basics like sufficient set lighting and functional microphones then surely GBN can now.
Here is the thing with Boris Johnson that will eventually (if it hasn't already) catch up with him. Lack of leadership skills. I know all the fanbois will keep going on about the elections he has won, but as I have said before, that was the interview, not the job. Some are good at bullshitting interviewers, and Johnson is such.
If ever there were a stronger evidence of Johnson's lack of leadership it is this: The man he leaves in place as Sec of State for Health, in a pandemic no less, he describes as "totally fucking hopeless", and in spite of this analysis (which in part might be psychological projection), he leaves him in place. That really is totally fucking hopeless!
I am largely sympathetic to that view, but Hancock's job was quite the most difficult job for any post war cabinet minister and recently he has been better
I agree Big G. I've never been much of a fan of Matt Hancock, but it's hard to have much antipathy to him either. There have been fewer peacetime ministers who have worked so bloody hard or looked so tired.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
Borders were "left open" if by that you mean that there has always throughout this crisis been some flights coming in. The volume, however, has been greatly reduced.
For all this period foreign nationals have been allowed to travel in, with conditions, while UK citizens have mostly been barred from leaving the country (with some occupational/specific situation exemptions). Putting it another way, the UK government has disadvantaged its own citizens verses citizens of other countries - a factor to examine in any public enquiry I would think.
"Closing the borders" is a simplistic term used by those looking for a scapegoat (who often have no desire to leave the county themselves but are relishing clipping the wings of those that do). Not even Aus and NZ closed borders entirely. The virus with all its variants will find a way in anyway.
We are (finally) doing what Aus and NZ have successfully done. Previously we allowed flights to come in from pox-ridden countries and not even do basic checks or take details of passengers. Don't quote the locator form at me, ineffective and not even partially implemented. Pox was walked freely across the UK border from India or elsewhere to infect us here. That is what Big_G claims is the border not being left open.
Now? You can fly in from poxland. Stand in a long queue of passengers at the border to spread the pox to people arriving from "safer" countries. And then be taken off to a quarantine hotel. Its as good as we're going to manage and could have been done far far sooner. The pox was in India, we knew it, Shagger wouldn't shut them down because trade mission. Which is how the Indian variant - now Delta - got here.
Delta was always going to get here.
"Now? You can fly in from poxland." - yes but you realise that the only people allowed to fly in have already tested negative for Covid before departure point?
We all know that gold standard or not, PCR is not remotely definitive. Sadly. I am not saying any of these decisions are easy. My argument is always that logic has to be applied. If x then x. We shut down entry from Pakistan and Bangladesh but left open India whose case rate per million was 2 - 4x higher than those countries. Arguments over "ah but they only defined Delta weeks later" are irrelevant. Indians were dying en masse from Covid regardless of whether we had managed to pin down the exact strain by then.
The action of closing our borders had to be a result of Sage identifying Delta as a variant of concern
Please quote the evidence and timeline to HMG when they did that and when the border closed
It is easy to blame Boris and HMG but neither Boris or HMG could take this step without scientists and sages backing
And of course the enquiry in years to come will provide the conclusion on this part of the covid story
What utter crap.
You can and should restrict travel when risk increases.
And risk clearly increased with the increase in infection in India.
If you have to wait for a new variant to be detected and proclaimed a variant of concern then by definition you have to let in enter the country weeks before you take any action.
Yesterday at the end of the thread on B & S and after PMQ's I posted this and I just wanted to repeat it as it does provide an insight into my attitude to Boris and covid. It is maybe a way of saying I am not at all a fan of Boris but I am a conservative loyalist and at present I do not see how he is replaced.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Laughable revisionist history. "The borders were not left open". Seriously?
I assume you ignored the evidence provided on here that the actual Delta version was not identified by the dates Starmer quoted
Indeed. As the chart shows, the argument on 9th April to Red List Bangladesh and Pakistan but not India was obvious...
The concern on April 9 was prevalence of the SA variant in Pakistan and Bangladesh.
Yes, we should have controlled our border with India sooner, but not because we knew about the Delta variant - we didn't - which wasn't identified until weeks later.
Because the PM had a scheduled trade trip and didn't want to justify skipping 2 weeks of hotel quarantine.
No doubt the Public Inquiry will explore whether or not the govt rejected advice to control the border with India - and that's the issue with not having transparent criteria - there is no way of challenging decisions. See above Guernsey's public criteria.
Comments
If "how much will it cost" was applied generally then nobody would ever spend anything. Business would never invest because "who will pay for it" and "how much does it cost". We used to have this thing called "capitalism". Invest. Benefit from a return on investment greater than the money spent. Rinse. Repeat. As government can borrow at near zero interest and the ROI is jobs, economic groth AND avoiding the costs of killing the environment, surely the pertinent question is how can we not afford it?
I am not at all sure Cummings will have any effect outside the political bubble, not least as he is one of the most discredited people in the country and in a recent poll Hancock poll twice Cummings on trust
His diatribe of hate is sad and of course releasing 'Whats app' messages might be par for the course for him, but they only reveal his utter hatred for Hancock and that Boris uses industrial language. Indeed that us unlikely to do any harm to Boris as thousands, even millions, would have considerable sympathy for a PM facing the worst crisis since WW2 swearing or uttering an oath or two
He strikes me as someone being torn apart by hate and hate in itself does far more damage to the one who hates than the hated.
He seems to want all the attention but at some point his desire will end with him being a very unhappy and unfulfilled person
He and it is sad
A Turbo S is a much better road car and a GT3 is a much better track car.
5 features to watch for from the 50s:
capital punishment
the creation of large numbers of secondary modern schools
homosexual practice is a crime
racism is legal
babies born out of wedlock are stigmatised.
I predict precisely zero of these to receive Tory government support.
PS Also: Middlesex is a proper county
The poor, as always, will be the ones getting fucked over while the rich (see Cameron’s father in law) have it away like bandits in the green Tory revolution.
I thought Boris looked shattered at PMQ's and his defence v Starmer was huff and puff when really there is actually a good evidence based case, as shown on here that the borders were not left open, as Delta had nor been identified as such, at the dates Starmer referred to
Indeed, he is providing more credence to those who say he is just a PR PM and does not do detail or understand it
Even I could have made a better case v Starmer today than he got anywhere near to
I did not vote for brexit, nor for Boris as leader, but I accept brexit was a democratic vote and now have been convinced leaving was the correct thing to do and not to look back
As I have said on many occasions, I want Rishi as leader and as soon as possible.
Indeed I would not be averse to Jeremy Hunt or Liz Truss
However, I do not know how Boris is removed or when and as a loyal conservative I will continue to support the party but expect Boris to release us (English anyway) on the 19th July and for him to accept that we cannot beat covid, (it will be with us for decades) and affirm vaccination is our passport to freedom, though personally I would not permit foreign travel before 2022
Furthermore, I fully support the compulsory vaccination of all care home workers as we cannot put at risk those who depend on this sector as happened across the UK at the beginning of this most dreadful disease
Of course, should Boris lose C&A and not take B&S from labour, the political narrative would change
Rishi's motives are unclear. Maybe he thought it was low risk given the viewing figures.
I've had punters arguing on Facebook against spending money regenerating their own high street. The more the regen progresses and the more it gets lauded by experts as the model for other towns the more they shriek about the costs.
We either invest in stuff or we stay broken and crap. There is no £10k per household bill and the people asking the question know this. As for "why us and not China" we don't live in China. Our kids don't go to school in China. People have benefited massively from various clean air measures yet so many of our kids still go to schools where they breathe polluted air. Time to do more for their sake and let China do their own thing.
There are now 51 known active cases of coronavirus in Jersey. Almost 900 people are currently isolating after being contact traced.
https://twitter.com/ITVChannelTV/status/1405415348493598722?s=20
Number in Guernsey: 2.
On a separate point, Guernsey has a transparent set of criteria for how quarantine/testing requirements are set by infection rates. A frequent complaint of UK travel restrictions is the criteria for setting them are opaque:
- Category 1 includes countries in which we have formed Air Bridges.
- Category 2 countries and regions will be implemented on 14 May 2021, with a prevalence rate of less than 30 per 100,000 for 7 consecutive days.
- Category 3 includes countries and regions which have a prevalence rate between 30 to 100 per 100,000 for 7 consecutive days.
- Category 4 includes countries and regions which have a prevalence rate of more than 100 per 100,000 for 7 consecutive days.
https://covid19.gov.gg/guidance/travel/countries
Current plan is to move to open border with the CTA for everyone with 2 jabs + 14 days from July 1. I suspect it may be delayed.
John 8:7~ KJV. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Cummings "revelation" that Boris sent a foul mouthed WhatsApp message about a colleague will move the dial about zero percent because who hasn't at some point got frustrated with a colleague and vented to someone else?
Boris doesn't pretend to be a shining light upon the hill, he's a human flaws and all, and what human has never gotten frustrated with someone they work with?
And while he's also patently incapable of presenting a persuasive case (god knows what those who find @Cyclfree's headers too long make of his screeds), there is damning material buried in the verbiage.
Fortunately for Johnson, most journalists don't possess the required attention span, either.
Tory policies are becoming increasingly economically illiterate and Sunak knows it.
https://insider-voice.com/tom-youngs-leicester-tigers-prostitute-charged-by-rfu-after-bristol-incident-rugby-union-news/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
“Leicester captain, prostitute Tom Youngs, has been charged by the RFU, following a brawl during their match against Bristol last weekend”
Which doesn't mean that I disbelieve him, or think that we have a competent government. With some exceptions, we really don't. If we accept that Johnson said what he's reported as saying, do we think that he'd studied the evidence of Hancock's record and come to a fair view? Of course not.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/17/covid-cases-in-england-doubling-every-11-days-as-delta-takes-hold
It’s so frustratingly dishonest. It’s been the same throughout the pandemic. An incredibly fast moving situation which literally changes every day. We have had ministers all over the media constantly in the run up to Monday insisting that new information was coming in all the time and this meant the decision would be taken at the very last minute.
And then a few days later we get scientists trumpeting “studies” in the media that are literally weeks out of date.
If these models were any good they should literally be able to be updated in real time. I get the impression that SAGE “commissions” pieces of work for certain time periods (usually conveniently timed to give them a few days run in before “reporting” to ministers) when this whole thing should be an ongoing process where (once the models are built) the reports should be available 24 hrs a day in near as dammit real time.
It’s as if the Govt is still set in World war 1 with reports from the front taking several days to filter into ministerial inboxes.
You can make your own empires, which is quite fun, and I had a species of peacock-derived clever birds. Only they were pea----s in the text.
Better yet, my robotic empire, the Synthetic Imperium, had a leader whose title I don't actually know because the game censored it's own automatically assigned title. It was Com----er, I think, but I have no idea what the missing bit is. Looks like it could be Commander or Computer, but I fail to see the profanity...
In the North West and the hotspots, it's fallen well off the exponential growth part. With exponentially growing variables, they always end up following an S-curve when they get to the point where they can't infect as widely. This can be from exhaustion of potential host pool, or from behavioural change of the potential hosts (moving more separately).
I suspect the latter (because the primary driver of the outbreak is in the 20-29s, and they have neither been widely vaccinated enough two weeks earlier, nor had enough infections to exhaust the pool against a much higher R rate. However, while we know behavioural change tends to be temporary (when the worry subsides, people move back to earlier behaviour), the vaccination status of more and more in that group is flipping to "protected," so by the time that happens, I'd expect the former (exhaustion of host pool) to be valid, anyway.
In the other areas, even with widely vaccinated populations, we're seeing it in the very early stages of take-off (again, concentrated in the twenties). Again, and as we see anecdotal evidence presented, people aren't very worried, so behavioural patterns allow that. However, whilst it's catching fire, we're pouring water on the entire area of wood that it's reaching for, and it looks to be too late for it to really go for it in those areas. That pool of potential hosts is collapsing even as it's reaching out for it.
The big saving grace of all this is how late the virus left it (I know, it's kind of ascribing agency to it, when it has none). Had it done this two months earlier, or three months, or had Alpha been Delta, we'd have been screwed.
I mean, run the figures and it looks very much like even the first lockdown would have been insufficient to reduce R below about 1.2 to 1.3 - it would have continued exponential growth even in lockdown unless we'd tightened it yet further.
As to GB TV, I have watched bits and pieces. The gulf in quality between the dull hours of mediocrity and Andrew Neil is pretty stark. It's a one trick pony at the moment.
It does seem to be hitting the young
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1405246545470136332
Sir Ian Blair getting airtime yesterday to defend her as "the outstanding officer of her generation", in between deeply unconvincing defences of his own record, incensed me.
Seeing this graphic doing the rounds a lot WRT to the UK-Australia trade deal. It's really quite misleading. Here's why. AFAICT (happy to be corrected) most of these issues are either legally unchanged as a result of the deal or will make no difference anyway. Specifically:
https://twitter.com/alanbeattie/status/1405418516820463616?s=20
For all this period foreign nationals have been allowed to travel in, with conditions, while UK citizens have mostly been barred from leaving the country (with some occupational/specific situation exemptions). Putting it another way, the UK government has disadvantaged its own citizens verses citizens of other countries - a factor to examine in any public enquiry I would think.
"Closing the borders" is a simplistic term used by those looking for a scapegoat (who often have no desire to leave the county themselves but are relishing clipping the wings of those that do). Not even Aus and NZ closed borders entirely. The virus with all its variants will find a way in anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_problem
https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1405247784425607174?s=20
*sighs*
As soon as we have a political class that understands algorithms aren't magic and that technology has limits as well as potential we'll be much better served.
That's why the insults aren't sticking.
BoJo is lazy, not half as clever as he thinks he is, and is yet to finish a coherent sentence. But he's lucky. He appointed someone competent to oversee the vaccine rollout - unlike the EU.
Dom is an NLB with no known success to his name.
The ridiculous thing about the "we can't afford it" mantra is that if you look at who pays most of the tax in this country, it really isn't them paying for it. And they still don't want the money.
https://twitter.com/jcbarret/status/1402168856022601729?s=20
Steve Baker was good on the problems of SAGE and modelling in Commons yesterday. I didn't have any time for him over Brexit but he has made some good points during the plague years. I guess his software background has helped him see a bit more clearly that some of this stuff is worse than goat entrails frankly.
When it was, the border was closed and of course closing out border was closing it to thousands of our fellow Brits returning home
(1) Getting on TV is difficult, even for the official Opposition, unless you say something off the wall. There is absolutely no way we could organise a stream of people on TV saying they've been let down.
(2) The tactics Sandpit suggests are exactly the sort of thing that the Tories and some Labour oppositions would do (Miliband's successful ambush of the Syrian bombing policy is a good example) and the antithesis of Starmer's approach to constructive opposition, since the outcome would be the collapse of restrictions and the Opposition held responsible for the subsequent increase in infections.
There is a cynical case for irresponsible opposition. Attack at every turn, regardless of the facts, and pick up the disgruntled on all sides. Then go responsible when the election comes round. It might work. But you'd need a different leader for it, and (if you think that continuing restrictions on Covid are necessary) you'd need to accept a lot of deaths as collateral damage.
It is not hindsight to say they should also have been introduced for India, since it was being said back then that Boris was running a risk for no good reason.
And there is a difference between the variant 'finding a way in' and being introduced on a fairly large scale simultaneously across the country. The latter is what led to the current restrictions being extended beyond June.
And people think they're thick....
Because PBers were saying that travel with India had to be stopped ten days before it was.
And the "who will think of the Brits abroad" is yet more bollox.
The government should have said back in March 2020 that anyone who leaves this country does so at their own risk and is liable to being stranded without warning.
A good interview all round although the set was once again pretty dismal.
If ever there were a stronger evidence of Johnson's lack of leadership it is this: The man he leaves in place as Sec of State for Health, in a pandemic no less, he describes as "totally fucking hopeless", and in spite of this analysis (which in part might be psychological projection), he leaves him in place. That really is totally fucking hopeless!
It will be hard for him, as he's lived in Hong Kong almost his whole life, but ultimately he'll be tortured and even killed if he continues there.
Delta was covid's Ardennes counter-offensive.
Blackburn was Bastogne.
I am fairly certain HMG warned against all foreign travel at the time
The surprise is that there’s been almost no criticism at all, of the government’s handling of the pandemic. You’re completely right that constant and cynical opposition wouldn’t work in the face of what’s a natural disaster, but a few carefully-picked battles might at least have got them in the news and forced changes in policy. Finding areas where there’s a lot of Government-party rebels in Parliament, and using them to force a change or amendment, has always been a fair opposition tactic. Instead, we know that Starmer cares about wallpaper and trans rights.
Those who have fallen through the cracks are the self-employed and small-business directors, especially those in startup companies with no history of revenues and taxes. There’s been almost no mention of them, and they don’t appear to have any politicians trying to get their story out there.
Now? You can fly in from poxland. Stand in a long queue of passengers at the border to spread the pox to people arriving from "safer" countries. And then be taken off to a quarantine hotel. Its as good as we're going to manage and could have been done far far sooner. The pox was in India, we knew it, Shagger wouldn't shut them down because trade mission. Which is how the Indian variant - now Delta - got here.
Nothing about that means anyone is thick of course.
"Now? You can fly in from poxland." - yes but you realise that the only people allowed to fly in have already tested negative for Covid before departure point?
https://youtu.be/ISs2UNdG5qo
I expect them to understood but, well, it's 12/1 and like @MarqueeMark says they could still narrowly miss with that.
Yes, we should have controlled our border with India sooner, but not because we knew about the Delta variant - we didn't - which wasn't identified until weeks later.
Every producer should know you never have a live feed of public comments going straight to presenters, otherwise Hugh Janus and Mike Hunt will be messaging in all the time.
Still no YouTube live feed either, only the crap jittery Simplestream one on their own website.
We know that infections were rising fast in India and that the reports were very ominous.
Yet the government did nothing for two vital weeks.
And to be fair to the public, they listened enough to gradually push the Conservative poll ratings below Labour's at the end of 2020. But then came the vaccines, which gave the government a huge boost, some of which they even deserved.
So what happens next? Which is the truer measure of the government? Now or six months ago? Given that more things will be run by Johnson and his ministers than by Kate Bingham, I'd go with then over now.
This increase is pre-G7. Much larger surge than previous holiday weeks.
Probably due to Delta passing much more easily between individuals; far less contact being required. Data suggests it’s 2.4 times easier to catch than last year’s edition. Also, single dose only 33% efficacy.
https://twitter.com/JamesWoodfield/status/1404884095260413953?s=20
The Star (!) probably sums it up best:
Please quote the evidence and timeline to HMG when they did that and when the border closed
It is easy to blame Boris and HMG but neither Boris or HMG could take this step without scientists and sages backing
And of course the enquiry in years to come will provide the conclusion on this part of the covid story
As far as they're concerned voting for Brexit has worked perfectly.
Its. Laughable. Mate. You will defend literally anything.
There was a very fair discussion on White Privilege this morning with Katherine Birbalsingh, and it was very measured. Making points @rcs1000 and @MaxPB have made in a reasonable way.
There's nothing extremist about it. It's just that plenty of those on the radical Left don't want their shibboleths challenged, so they're trying to shut it down at source.
It's so simple, and has happened time and time again in British history. When there are fewer people to do the skilled labour and/or the grunt work, the wages commanded for that work increase and the lot of those workers improves.
There has been a lot of magical thinking in my lifetime that immigration makes us richer and to say otherwise is somehow taboo. It increases our GDP, sure, because there are more of us. And if you're trying to employ someone you can do it more cheaply. I remember a geography GCSE question in which I was invited to discuss the benefits to the UK of immigration - the drawbacks weren't to be mentioned. But in reality it doesn't do a lot for most individual Britons.
I've never been much of a fan of Matt Hancock, but it's hard to have much antipathy to him either. There have been fewer peacetime ministers who have worked so bloody hard or looked so tired.
You can and should restrict travel when risk increases.
And risk clearly increased with the increase in infection in India.
If you have to wait for a new variant to be detected and proclaimed a variant of concern then by definition you have to let in enter the country weeks before you take any action.