Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
LONDON — The European Union decided Wednesday to add the United States to its safe travel list, meaning it will be easier for American citizens to take a vacation in one of the 27 member states, two EU sources have confirmed to CNBC.....
One notable absence from the exemption list is the United Kingdom, where almost half of the population is currently fully vaccinated against the coronavirus.
One EU official, who did not want to be named due to the sensitivity of the subject, said nonessential travel from the U.K. remains banned “due to the delta variant.”
We should just accept that referees are imperfect.
Trouble is the howlers. Lampard in the World Cup. So obviously wrong it was untrue. Now we have goals being ruled out by mm. There ought to have been a better way.
Need a ref’s call for anything that isn’t an obvious error. It’s the offside by a fingernail that needs to stand if the ref has given it.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
Oh my goodness. How could anyone make a mistake like that?
Nonsense. What mistake?
Kaffir lime is a fruit tree species in Asia! Nothing to do skin colour. Honestly. If someone takes offense (or more likely pretends they have) then they need educating that words can mean different things in different contexts. True that the words was a racial slur in apartheid Africa but who with a gram of intelligence could think that Waitrose by selling the leaves from the Kaffir Lime tree were out to insult black people?
We should just accept that referees are imperfect.
Trouble is the howlers. Lampard in the World Cup. So obviously wrong it was untrue. Now we have goals being ruled out by mm. There ought to have been a better way.
Need a ref’s call for anything that isn’t an obvious error. It’s the offside by a fingernail that needs to stand if the ref has given it.
The worst kind of mission creep. Fix the lampards and ignore the marginal offsides.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
It is from the word unbeliever, much like heretic or heathen. I don't think that makes the word racist. Of course, it is now used as a racist word, but that's not what we are discussing.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
We should just accept that referees are imperfect.
Trouble is the howlers. Lampard in the World Cup. So obviously wrong it was untrue. Now we have goals being ruled out by mm. There ought to have been a better way.
Need a ref’s call for anything that isn’t an obvious error. It’s the offside by a fingernail that needs to stand if the ref has given it.
The worst kind of mission creep. Fix the lampards and ignore the marginal offsides.
If it weren’t for VAR, Mbappe would have been hailed this morning for scoring one of the greatest Euro goals of all time. It deserved to stand.
He won’t last 3 months into the season if the board have signed him and whoever it is who recommended him will be forced out too. Even if it is Moshiri. The first fuckup he makes will have us down on him like a ton of bricks and if we lose the derby then he will be hounded out. His history of behaviour towards Everton will never, ever, be forgiven.
Well that was brutal - why the BBC didn't make more use of Andrew Neil (putting him on a boat in the Thames on one GE night FFS!) I don't know.
Chances of Boris appearing on GB news....less than zero...
And so what odds would you give me that he does so in the next year? Your impossible will become quite possible when pressed as to the chances I imagine.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
It is from the word unbeliever, much like heretic or heathen. I don't think that makes the word racist. Of course, it is now used as a racist word, but that's not what we are discussing.
If I follow the article correctly, it’s called a ‘kaffir lime’ because it was used as an ointment by the slaves shipped from Africa to Ceylon, who were called ‘kaffirs’ by their overseers.
That would certainly seem to make it to put it mildly, highly problematic, even leaving aside its later usage.
It’s not that I don’t like it, and it’s all translatable via google, Now if I can say this very carefully so I can get away with it, but it’s true isn’t it, the Welsh spoken today is not historical Welsh?
Many years ago a panel of experts on Radio 4 all agreed the Welsh today was invented by a Professor (recall the debate not the name) not more than 100 years ago - and in terms of complexity Tolkien managed a better effort with his Elvish languages. That actual Welsh language is long gone - even practicing Druid’s today who have next to no idea what Druid’s really believed and practiced have more knowledge of Druidism than the Welsh do of the old Welsh language before the modern invention.
This is pretty accurate in’t it?
You sure you're not thinking of Cornish?
Yeah that's complete rubbish. The 1891 census of Wales asked whether people living in Wales spoke Welsh, English or both.
For example, in Monmouthshire there were 759k English only speakers, 508k Welsh only speakers and 402k who could speak both
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
It is from the word unbeliever, much like heretic or heathen. I don't think that makes the word racist. Of course, it is now used as a racist word, but that's not what we are discussing.
If I follow the article correctly, it’s called a ‘kaffir lime’ because it was used as an ointment by the slaves shipped from Africa to Ceylon, who were called ‘kaffirs’ by their overseers.
That would certainly seem to make it to put it mildly, highly problematic, even leaving aside its later usage.
If I’m wrong in that, can you please explain how?
You were claiming that the word was primarily used for a racist purpose. I don't think that is accurate given how widely kaffir was used at the time, regardless of skin colour.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
It is from the word unbeliever, much like heretic or heathen. I don't think that makes the word racist. Of course, it is now used as a racist word, but that's not what we are discussing.
It is used by Muslims in a clearly derogatory way. I’ve always been amazed that this is ‘overlooked’
eg the Rotherham rapists would refer to ‘that kaffir slut’ etc etc
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
It is from the word unbeliever, much like heretic or heathen. I don't think that makes the word racist. Of course, it is now used as a racist word, but that's not what we are discussing.
If I follow the article correctly, it’s called a ‘kaffir lime’ because it was used as an ointment by the slaves shipped from Africa to Ceylon, who were called ‘kaffirs’ by their overseers.
That would certainly seem to make it to put it mildly, highly problematic, even leaving aside its later usage.
If I’m wrong in that, can you please explain how?
I think the word is Arabic, unbeliever. It's what they called the Black Africans they enslaved.
It’s not that I don’t like it, and it’s all translatable via google, Now if I can say this very carefully so I can get away with it, but it’s true isn’t it, the Welsh spoken today is not historical Welsh?
Many years ago a panel of experts on Radio 4 all agreed the Welsh today was invented by a Professor (recall the debate not the name) not more than 100 years ago - and in terms of complexity Tolkien managed a better effort with his Elvish languages. That actual Welsh language is long gone - even practicing Druid’s today who have next to no idea what Druid’s really believed and practiced have more knowledge of Druidism than the Welsh do of the old Welsh language before the modern invention.
This is pretty accurate in’t it?
You sure you're not thinking of Cornish?
Yeah that's complete rubbish. The 1891 census of Wales asked whether people living in Wales spoke Welsh, English or both.
For example, in Monmouthshire there were 759k English only speakers, 508k Welsh only speakers and 402k who could speak both
And that’s Monmouthshire - by far the most anglicised of the 13 counties.
Although I would question your figures. I don’t think Monmouthshire had a population of 1.7 million in 1891.
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
Given that no bugger under 50 understands them why would they do that? Ah yes of course. Silly me.
Hate to contradict you, but at the age of 38 I use imperial on the rare occasions I use anything at all.
At the age of 38 I haven't got the foggiest how imperial works.
Besides units that don't need anything doing them. I could say my height and weight in imperial, drive in miles and drink in pints . . . But anything that needs calculations? Give me SI units all day, every day.
I'm only slightly older and understand imperial pretty well, as well as metric.
You don't though. How many inches in a mile? (I'd guess you don't know)
I really don't know either (I can work it out). I do know how many centimeters there are in a kilometer though.
Imperial measures are tricky to fathom, and are miles out of date.
None, because centimetres are not technically a valid measurement.
centi = 1/100th in the system and metres are a standard definition. Do point out my error.
I think ydoethur made a boo boo.
Centimeter is not a valid unit of measurement, centimetre is though.
I was always taught that the three valid measurements are millimetre, metre and kilometre. And that anything in between (centimetre, decametre etc) was simply to make the sums easier.
Could be wrong. I was at school at the time, and it’s not a subject I ever took much interest in.
I don't think that's right.
My understanding is that the only true base unit of length is the metre.
Beyond that mm, cm, km etc are all related to the metre and all equally valid in SI.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
Given that no bugger under 50 understands them why would they do that? Ah yes of course. Silly me.
Hate to contradict you, but at the age of 38 I use imperial on the rare occasions I use anything at all.
At the age of 38 I haven't got the foggiest how imperial works.
Besides units that don't need anything doing them. I could say my height and weight in imperial, drive in miles and drink in pints . . . But anything that needs calculations? Give me SI units all day, every day.
I'm only slightly older and understand imperial pretty well, as well as metric.
You don't though. How many inches in a mile? (I'd guess you don't know)
I really don't know either (I can work it out). I do know how many centimeters there are in a kilometer though.
Imperial measures are tricky to fathom, and are miles out of date.
None, because centimetres are not technically a valid measurement.
centi = 1/100th in the system and metres are a standard definition. Do point out my error.
I think ydoethur made a boo boo.
Centimeter is not a valid unit of measurement, centimetre is though.
I was always taught that the three valid measurements are millimetre, metre and kilometre. And that anything in between (centimetre, decametre etc) was simply to make the sums easier.
Could be wrong. I was at school at the time, and it’s not a subject I ever took much interest in.
I don't think that's right.
My understanding is that the only true base unit of length is the metre.
Beyond that mm, cm, km etc are all related to the metre and all equally valid in SI.
I’ll take your word for it. As I said, not something I am particularly exercised about.
It’s not that I don’t like it, and it’s all translatable via google, Now if I can say this very carefully so I can get away with it, but it’s true isn’t it, the Welsh spoken today is not historical Welsh?
Many years ago a panel of experts on Radio 4 all agreed the Welsh today was invented by a Professor (recall the debate not the name) not more than 100 years ago - and in terms of complexity Tolkien managed a better effort with his Elvish languages. That actual Welsh language is long gone - even practicing Druid’s today who have next to no idea what Druid’s really believed and practiced have more knowledge of Druidism than the Welsh do of the old Welsh language before the modern invention.
This is pretty accurate in’t it?
You sure you're not thinking of Cornish?
Yeah that's complete rubbish. The 1891 census of Wales asked whether people living in Wales spoke Welsh, English or both.
For example, in Monmouthshire there were 759k English only speakers, 508k Welsh only speakers and 402k who could speak both
I've got a commentary on the Bible, in Welsh. Effectively it's a Bible, because only OUP could publish bibles, and they weren't interested in doing so in Welsh.. Published about 1800. Belonged to my gt-grandfather. Massive thing. It was left to me by my Welsh-speaking grandmother. No idea who'll have it, or want it, after me!
I want to be able to support a well managed, honest and apolitical police force that enforces rather than creates the law and which takes real responsibility when it makes mistakes.
Sadly that is not what we have. Responsibility for this lies both with the politicians and with the police themselves. Until someone takes charge and properly reforms the police we are going to continue to see them distrusted by the public and failing in their duty to protect and serve the public.
So, go ahead EU - keep us out if you like (you'll be doing us a favour) - but I doubt ignorance is bliss....
I think the daily hospital admissions figure for France is still higher than the UK.
Probably just beyond crossover: France 198 England 185 Scotland 20 are the latest daily numbers I can find, and France is the same population as the UK so a fair bit bigger than England alone.
True, though bear in mind that ICU occupancy is going to be a very lagging indicator; if you are in ICU on June 6, you probably picked up the infection sometime in the middle of May. It also depends on what criteria you draw for whether to send patients to ICU/normal hospital bed/going home.
One point sometimes made here is that France has had more Covid hospitalisations than the UK but fewer deaths, as if that's a sign of gallic statistical skulduggery. The alternative explanation is that giving more people more intensive treatment helps them to recover better...
I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again, I wonder if the continued restrictions on foreign travel are, in part, a rather clever economic scheme to divert all of our tourist spending - which must be billions - to the needy and suffering UK hospitality sector, for a summer
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
Saw a commercial the other day for "Ben's Original" rice, formerly known & sold across the USA for MANY years as "Uncle Ben's Rice" complete with picture of smiling Black man.
Very similar story with another famous American brand, formerly "Aunt Jemima" pancake batter, which is morphing into "Pearl Mills".
Note that prior to the 1960s Civil Rights era, it was common practice in the US South for White people to call Blacks by their first name, and much less frequently by their surname. And VERY rarely Mr, Mrs or Miss; exceptions were a few educated professionals who were NOT thick on the ground in the rural Southland.
As an alternative, older Black people who were well-known and often quite respected in their local communities by White employers and others, would be called "Aunt" and "Uncle" along with their first names. This was a refection of generalized respect for older people, in a society were it was also very common for children to be taught to call any adult - or rather any White adult - Miss Daisy or Mr Davy or what-have-you. Which transfered to adults using the same form for obviously older people of their acquaintance.
Such as in the movie "Driving Miss Daisy". BTW, "Miss" being commonly pronounced "Miz" which morphed quite nicely with the rise of "Ms" in the 1970s & beyond.
The advertising concept behind "Aunt Jemima" and "Uncle Ben" was that they were first-class cooks at preparing typically Southern cuisine - such as rice and flapjacks - that were popular south, north, east and west.
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
If I want to buy 1lb of strawberries rather than 454g why does that matter? So long as it’s clear what I’m paying and what I’m getting it doesn’t need regulating
It’s not that I don’t like it, and it’s all translatable via google, Now if I can say this very carefully so I can get away with it, but it’s true isn’t it, the Welsh spoken today is not historical Welsh?
Many years ago a panel of experts on Radio 4 all agreed the Welsh today was invented by a Professor (recall the debate not the name) not more than 100 years ago - and in terms of complexity Tolkien managed a better effort with his Elvish languages. That actual Welsh language is long gone - even practicing Druid’s today who have next to no idea what Druid’s really believed and practiced have more knowledge of Druidism than the Welsh do of the old Welsh language before the modern invention.
This is pretty accurate in’t it?
You sure you're not thinking of Cornish?
Yeah that's complete rubbish. The 1891 census of Wales asked whether people living in Wales spoke Welsh, English or both.
For example, in Monmouthshire there were 759k English only speakers, 508k Welsh only speakers and 402k who could speak both
I've got a commentary on the Bible, in Welsh. Effectively it's a Bible, because only OUP could publish bibles, and they weren't interested in doing so in Welsh.. Published about 1800. Belonged to my gt-grandfather. Massive thing. It was left to me by my Welsh-speaking grandmother. No idea who'll have it, or want it, after me!
Actually, not only OUP could print Bibles (Cambridge could as well, for a start). And the BFBS was founded in 1804 specifically to print and publish Bibles in Welsh, and then other languages. The first Welsh Bible was printed in 1523.
Edit - not that I am in any way denigrating your family heirloom, which sounds a wonderful, rare and precious thing. But there were Bibles available in Welsh at the time.
I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again, I wonder if the continued restrictions on foreign travel are, in part, a rather clever economic scheme to divert all of our tourist spending - which must be billions - to the needy and suffering UK hospitality sector, for a summer
In that respect I kinda approve of it
That’s what the Greeks are claiming
Well that's ridiculous because the EU are keeping the UK out.
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
If I want to buy 1lb of strawberries rather than 454g why does that matter? So long as it’s clear what I’m paying and what I’m getting it doesn’t need regulating
Well because now instead of people being able to order 1lb or 454g to their preference, some uppity trader is going to force people to ask for the amount in the way they want by not putting both units up. You say why does it matter, but in this situation the trader thinks it does, and they don't want people to do it the 'wrong' way. It's actually more restrictive.
You can already buy 1lb of strawberries, why care so much if someone were to want to buy them in grams?
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
Given that no bugger under 50 understands them why would they do that? Ah yes of course. Silly me.
Hate to contradict you, but at the age of 38 I use imperial on the rare occasions I use anything at all.
At the age of 38 I haven't got the foggiest how imperial works.
Besides units that don't need anything doing them. I could say my height and weight in imperial, drive in miles and drink in pints . . . But anything that needs calculations? Give me SI units all day, every day.
All the proposal is is the decriminalisation of offering things for sale by the pound, ounce etc. This will apply mostly to selling bananas in market stalls in north of England.
No-one truly thinks it should be a crime do they?
It should be compulsory to display the metric measure besides.
Otherwise it’s just confusion for consumers.
I was born in 1975. Yet I still think mostly in imperial. Particularly for food. I can manage metric, sure, but generally only by a quick conversion to imperial. It's not onerous. But nor is 8t obvious that displaying imperial rather than metric is inherently confusing to the customer.
How do you make pancake batter? 1 egg, four ounces of flour, half a pint of milk. How do people who think in metric do it? I'm not saying the metric measurements can't be memorised of course. But I'm surprised that anyone who cooks uses metric measurements instinctively.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
LONDON — The European Union decided Wednesday to add the United States to its safe travel list, meaning it will be easier for American citizens to take a vacation in one of the 27 member states, two EU sources have confirmed to CNBC.....
One notable absence from the exemption list is the United Kingdom, where almost half of the population is currently fully vaccinated against the coronavirus.
One EU official, who did not want to be named due to the sensitivity of the subject, said nonessential travel from the U.K. remains banned “due to the delta variant.”
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
If I want to buy 1lb of strawberries rather than 454g why does that matter? So long as it’s clear what I’m paying and what I’m getting it doesn’t need regulating
*So long as it’s clear what you’re paying for.* Which is why these things are standardised and regulated.
On units of measurement, you have to have a feel whether something is big or small.
If I hear someone's mass in stone I can tell if they are a bit on the chunky side or not. In kilograms or (as the American's do it) pounds, I'm clueless.
For pressure, bar is the only sensible unit. If a pressure is quoted in Pascal (or kPa or MPa) I'm never confident that I've got the decimal point in the right place when I convert to bar. At least with psi I know to divide by 14.5.
And 1 billion scf ('scuffs') is a decent size natural gas field.
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
Given that no bugger under 50 understands them why would they do that? Ah yes of course. Silly me.
Hate to contradict you, but at the age of 38 I use imperial on the rare occasions I use anything at all.
At the age of 38 I haven't got the foggiest how imperial works.
Besides units that don't need anything doing them. I could say my height and weight in imperial, drive in miles and drink in pints . . . But anything that needs calculations? Give me SI units all day, every day.
I'm only slightly older and understand imperial pretty well, as well as metric.
You don't though. How many inches in a mile? (I'd guess you don't know)
I really don't know either (I can work it out). I do know how many centimeters there are in a kilometer though.
Imperial measures are tricky to fathom, and are miles out of date.
None, because centimetres are not technically a valid measurement.
centi = 1/100th in the system and metres are a standard definition. Do point out my error.
I think ydoethur made a boo boo.
Centimeter is not a valid unit of measurement, centimetre is though.
I was always taught that the three valid measurements are millimetre, metre and kilometre. And that anything in between (centimetre, decametre etc) was simply to make the sums easier.
Could be wrong. I was at school at the time, and it’s not a subject I ever took much interest in.
I don't think that's right.
My understanding is that the only true base unit of length is the metre.
Beyond that mm, cm, km etc are all related to the metre and all equally valid in SI.
The metre is the SI base unit of length. There is nothing particularly magical about it. Before SI, Victorian physicists used the cgs system – centimetre-gram-second – because those units were most natural for the objects scientists were dealing with at the time. SI is pretty much the same but scaled up a little bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centimetre-gram-second_system_of_units
I'm all in favour of bringing back 'proper money'.
I've always been a big fan of thruppenny bits.
Stepping over the innuendo, I can barely remember pre-decimal currency but cannot recall any difficulty spending it or getting the right change.
I have a set of pre-decimal UK coinage I bought at a tourist kiosk in London back in the 1990s, has a farthing, halfpenny, penny, threepence, sixpence, florin, English shilling, Scottish shilling, halfcrown and crown, the last coined in 1965 and featuring portrait of Sir Winston Churchill.
My guess is that they've sold out but maybe I'm wrong?
It’s not that I don’t like it, and it’s all translatable via google, Now if I can say this very carefully so I can get away with it, but it’s true isn’t it, the Welsh spoken today is not historical Welsh?
Many years ago a panel of experts on Radio 4 all agreed the Welsh today was invented by a Professor (recall the debate not the name) not more than 100 years ago - and in terms of complexity Tolkien managed a better effort with his Elvish languages. That actual Welsh language is long gone - even practicing Druid’s today who have next to no idea what Druid’s really believed and practiced have more knowledge of Druidism than the Welsh do of the old Welsh language before the modern invention.
This is pretty accurate in’t it?
You sure you're not thinking of Cornish?
Yeah that's complete rubbish. The 1891 census of Wales asked whether people living in Wales spoke Welsh, English or both.
For example, in Monmouthshire there were 759k English only speakers, 508k Welsh only speakers and 402k who could speak both
I've got a commentary on the Bible, in Welsh. Effectively it's a Bible, because only OUP could publish bibles, and they weren't interested in doing so in Welsh.. Published about 1800. Belonged to my gt-grandfather. Massive thing. It was left to me by my Welsh-speaking grandmother. No idea who'll have it, or want it, after me!
Actually, not only OUP could print Bibles (Cambridge could as well, for a start). And the BFBS was founded in 1804 specifically to print and publish Bibles in Welsh, and then other languages. The first Welsh Bible was printed in 1523.
Edit - not that I am in any way denigrating your family heirloom, which sounds a wonderful, rare and precious thing. But there were Bibles available in Welsh at the time.
I didn't think for a moment that you were. I'm grateful for the comment. This was printed by a firm in Edinburgh. It's got some family details in it, handwritten in a space provided. I suspect, but I'll never know, that it hints at a family rift of some sort, given what else I've found.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
I was born in 1975 too, must have been a good year for it. I use imperial measurements for only one thing: making pancakes (which I do every Sunday morning). But your recipe is a bit miserly on the eggs isn't it? Mine is 1 egg = 2 oz flour = 1/4pt milk. In general I think this imperial nostalgia is just another indicator of a country in decline.
Not really. Imperial measurements are just easier to use in many cases.
I use metric very little - even at work where everything is inches, feet, psi, barrels and pounds per gallon. I do like it for some things - actually measuring food for my diet is easier in metric but that is about all.
It means I am a damn sight better at mental arithmetic than almost all of my contemporaries and can easily switch back and forth between imperial and metric as desired.
I am teaching my son imperial alongside the metric he learns at school. Again I think it benefits him to be able to work in both. I would be just as annoyed about him not being able to work in metric units as I would about him being unable to work in imperial.
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
Given that no bugger under 50 understands them why would they do that? Ah yes of course. Silly me.
Hate to contradict you, but at the age of 38 I use imperial on the rare occasions I use anything at all.
At the age of 38 I haven't got the foggiest how imperial works.
Besides units that don't need anything doing them. I could say my height and weight in imperial, drive in miles and drink in pints . . . But anything that needs calculations? Give me SI units all day, every day.
All the proposal is is the decriminalisation of offering things for sale by the pound, ounce etc. This will apply mostly to selling bananas in market stalls in north of England.
No-one truly thinks it should be a crime do they?
It should be compulsory to display the metric measure besides.
Otherwise it’s just confusion for consumers.
I was born in 1975. Yet I still think mostly in imperial. Particularly for food. I can manage metric, sure, but generally only by a quick conversion to imperial. It's not onerous. But nor is 8t obvious that displaying imperial rather than metric is inherently confusing to the customer.
How do you make pancake batter? 1 egg, four ounces of flour, half a pint of milk. How do people who think in metric do it? I'm not saying the metric measurements can't be memorised of course. But I'm surprised that anyone who cooks uses metric measurements instinctively.
Anyone who bakes will measure everything with scales anyway so it makes no difference what the recipe is in. The only thing that annoys me are US cups. Worst measure in existence.
I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again, I wonder if the continued restrictions on foreign travel are, in part, a rather clever economic scheme to divert all of our tourist spending - which must be billions - to the needy and suffering UK hospitality sector, for a summer
In that respect I kinda approve of it
That’s what the Greeks are claiming
Beware of them! They may be bearing gifts.
Top people the Greeks though. Are there any actually universally accepted bad Greeks? Tsolakologlou maybe - I actually had to look him up, although I knew of him.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
Both of us should be too young to get that reference.
As to the reasoning behind the metric vs. Imperial intervention, Wikipedia states the metre was originally “defined as one ten-millionth of the shortest distance from the North Pole to the equator passing through Paris”
Very easy to weaponize in the current climate - clue is in the last word 😀
On units of measurement, you have to have a feel whether something is big or small.
If I hear someone's mass in stone I can tell if they are a bit on the chunky side or not. In kilograms or (as the American's do it) pounds, I'm clueless.
For pressure, bar is the only sensible unit. If a pressure is quoted in Pascal (or kPa or MPa) I'm never confident that I've got the decimal point in the right place when I convert to bar. At least with psi I know to divide by 14.5.
And 1 billion scf ('scuffs') is a decent size natural gas field.
That's just what you're used to though.
For example, I know exactly what is a healthy weight in kg but I'd have no idea in Stone.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
Lol. That was a funny song. I remember the line “I’ve had a nice Pot Noodle, but I’ve never met…”
On the other hand I think the peaceful handover of power by Afrikaaners was one of the nobler acts in human history. Yes, it came after much evil, and they were pressurized. Nonetheless they did it. Peacefully
And it could be argued their worst fears have come true, since, if you look at the crime rate
I was born in 1975 too, must have been a good year for it. I use imperial measurements for only one thing: making pancakes (which I do every Sunday morning). But your recipe is a bit miserly on the eggs isn't it? Mine is 1 egg = 2 oz flour = 1/4pt milk. In general I think this imperial nostalgia is just another indicator of a country in decline.
Not really. Imperial measurements are just easier to use in many cases.
I use metric very little - even at work where everything is inches, feet, psi, barrels and pounds per gallon. I do like it for some things - actually measuring food for my diet is easier in metric but that is about all.
It means I am a damn sight better at mental arithmetic than almost all of my contemporaries and can easily switch back and forth between imperial and metric as desired.
I am teaching my son imperial alongside the metric he learns at school. Again I think it benefits him to be able to work in both. I would be just as annoyed about him not being able to work in metric units as I would about him being unable to work in imperial.
Our youngest was also born in 1975 - vintage year obviously
Sadly I was not born in 1975 - that was an error with formatting the original quote which I have now corrected.
I was a decade earlier. Again sadly given that means I am now far older than I want to be.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
Given that no bugger under 50 understands them why would they do that? Ah yes of course. Silly me.
Hate to contradict you, but at the age of 38 I use imperial on the rare occasions I use anything at all.
At the age of 38 I haven't got the foggiest how imperial works.
Besides units that don't need anything doing them. I could say my height and weight in imperial, drive in miles and drink in pints . . . But anything that needs calculations? Give me SI units all day, every day.
I'm only slightly older and understand imperial pretty well, as well as metric.
You don't though. How many inches in a mile? (I'd guess you don't know)
I really don't know either (I can work it out). I do know how many centimeters there are in a kilometer though.
Imperial measures are tricky to fathom, and are miles out of date.
None, because centimetres are not technically a valid measurement.
centi = 1/100th in the system and metres are a standard definition. Do point out my error.
I think ydoethur made a boo boo.
Centimeter is not a valid unit of measurement, centimetre is though.
I was always taught that the three valid measurements are millimetre, metre and kilometre. And that anything in between (centimetre, decametre etc) was simply to make the sums easier.
Could be wrong. I was at school at the time, and it’s not a subject I ever took much interest in.
I don't think that's right.
My understanding is that the only true base unit of length is the metre.
Beyond that mm, cm, km etc are all related to the metre and all equally valid in SI.
The metre is the SI base unit of length. There is nothing particularly magical about it. Before SI, Victorian physicists used the cgs system – centimetre-gram-second – because those units were most natural for the objects scientists were dealing with at the time. SI is pretty much the same but scaled up a little bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centimetre-gram-second_system_of_units
Indeed though CGS isn't really used anymore.
The point though is that under SI a centimetre is quite literally 1 hundredth of a metre. A kilometre is quite literally 1000 metres.
The only base unit is the metre and then all measurements are related to that. So cm is as perfectly valid to use as km or mm. So too are more obscure measurements like Tm or Gm as far as I understand, not that I've ever come across either before.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
That's not bleddy surprising, man!
Because they’re a bunch of arrogant bastards who hate Black people.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
On units of measurement, you have to have a feel whether something is big or small.
If I hear someone's mass in stone I can tell if they are a bit on the chunky side or not. In kilograms or (as the American's do it) pounds, I'm clueless.
For pressure, bar is the only sensible unit. If a pressure is quoted in Pascal (or kPa or MPa) I'm never confident that I've got the decimal point in the right place when I convert to bar. At least with psi I know to divide by 14.5.
And 1 billion scf ('scuffs') is a decent size natural gas field.
Funny to see someone talking in Scuffs on here. This evening I am monitoring drilling development wells on the Tolmount Field about 45 miles due east of Flamborough Head. All day talk of Scuffs has been rattling around my email.
LONDON — The European Union decided Wednesday to add the United States to its safe travel list, meaning it will be easier for American citizens to take a vacation in one of the 27 member states, two EU sources have confirmed to CNBC.....
One notable absence from the exemption list is the United Kingdom, where almost half of the population is currently fully vaccinated against the coronavirus.
One EU official, who did not want to be named due to the sensitivity of the subject, said nonessential travel from the U.K. remains banned “due to the delta variant.”
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
If I want to buy 1lb of strawberries rather than 454g why does that matter? So long as it’s clear what I’m paying and what I’m getting it doesn’t need regulating
*So long as it’s clear what you’re paying for.* Which is why these things are standardised and regulated.
This is why we need eurocrats. The obvious solution is a standardised eurostrawberry to avoid confusion between different systems.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
I was born in 1975 too, must have been a good year for it. I use imperial measurements for only one thing: making pancakes (which I do every Sunday morning). But your recipe is a bit miserly on the eggs isn't it? Mine is 1 egg = 2 oz flour = 1/4pt milk. In general I think this imperial nostalgia is just another indicator of a country in decline.
Not really. Imperial measurements are just easier to use in many cases.
I use metric very little - even at work where everything is inches, feet, psi, barrels and pounds per gallon. I do like it for some things - actually measuring food for my diet is easier in metric but that is about all.
It means I am a damn sight better at mental arithmetic than almost all of my contemporaries and can easily switch back and forth between imperial and metric as desired.
I am teaching my son imperial alongside the metric he learns at school. Again I think it benefits him to be able to work in both. I would be just as annoyed about him not being able to work in metric units as I would about him being unable to work in imperial.
Our youngest was also born in 1975 - vintage year obviously
Sadly I was not born in 1975 - that was an error with formatting the original quote which I have now corrected.
I was a decade earlier. Again sadly given that means I am now far older than I want to be.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
That's not bleddy surprising, man!
Because they’re a bunch of arrogant bastards who hate Black people.
You’ve never been there have you? White South Africans - especially Afrikaaners - are definitely not arrogant. They have a deep cultural insecurity. Even an inferiority complex - towards European cultures. They’re even embarrassed by their ‘primitive’ language which the Dutch dismiss as ‘kitchen Dutch’ - a basic and uncouth form of the tongue.
If you have a cultural cringe towards the Dutch you have a definite issue with self-esteem. And afrikaaners also have an inferiority complex towards British settlers and culture, of course. We came in and stole their colony
This may partly explain their horrible attitude to black people, they are the hen-pecked husband who kicks the cat to assert his virility
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
This is only perplexing if you misunderstand racism to be a personality flaw rather than a system of oppression.
It’s not that I don’t like it, and it’s all translatable via google, Now if I can say this very carefully so I can get away with it, but it’s true isn’t it, the Welsh spoken today is not historical Welsh?
Many years ago a panel of experts on Radio 4 all agreed the Welsh today was invented by a Professor (recall the debate not the name) not more than 100 years ago - and in terms of complexity Tolkien managed a better effort with his Elvish languages. That actual Welsh language is long gone - even practicing Druid’s today who have next to no idea what Druid’s really believed and practiced have more knowledge of Welsh than the Welsh do of the old Welsh language before the modern invention.
This is pretty accurate in’t it?
No.
Edit - in terms of Druids, or the Gorsedd to give them their correct title, they are a recent invention by an eighteenth century stonemason and poet called Edward Williams. Not really relevant to the language debate.
I used the reinvention of Gorseddism as metaphor, as example, but a good example as the reinvention of Welsh language used today is much the same thing isn’t it, a recent reinvention by a sub par Professor Tolkien?
No. It is not.
I have no idea where you are getting this idea from, but you are completely wrong. It was the common language of the majority of Welsh people until the First World War era. Not until 1870 when education was in English did that even start to change. Not until the mass call ups of the First World War and the turbulence of the Depression did English begin to seriously erode Welsh as the common language.
Previously, schooling had been done (for over a hundred years) by means of what was called the ‘circulating schools’ attached to the Methodist church teaching people to read (particularly) in Welsh. It was one of the most literate societies in the world, but few could speak or read English. Their learned societies based in London published works in Welsh that are perfectly recognisable to Welsh speakers today. Some of them were even named in Welsh (the Cymrodorion spring to mind). Whole universities were founded in the nineteenth century - Lampeter (1822) Carmarthen (1848) and Aberystwyth (1871) to teach through the medium of Welsh, for the simple reason that was the only language the population understood. Heck, the only Welsh PM (who left office 99 years ago) was actually born in England but his first language was Welsh. In 1919 he and his secretary Tom Jones (not that one!) had phone conversations in Welsh to keep all their negotiating strategy secret from eavesdroppers. In 1865 a Welsh group left for Argentina to found Y Wladfa, and their language is still perfectly comprehensible to modern Welsh speakers.
It is true that Welsh has become more formalised and standardised in the last hundred years, but the same is very true of English. And yet I as a researcher in nineteenth century history had no problem reading manuscripts in it. Or German - indeed, the German script has changed so dramatically since the 1940s you could call it a new form of written language, but again, I am sure the good Dr Palmer would have no trouble understanding the spoken form from a hundred years ago.
So I honestly don’t know who your experts were, but they were talking complete and utter nonsense.
I am assuming the professor in question was Sir Albert Jones-Evans, who under his Bardic name Cynan was Wales’ greatest First World War poet and Archdruid for years. But the idea he invented the language? Simply not correct.
I was speaking off top my head based on something stuck in my brain from pre internet time, I hadn’t looked into it.
I have now. They may have been referring to Iolo Morganwg. How would you estimate his impact on promotion of Welsh language?
I was born in 1975 too, must have been a good year for it. I use imperial measurements for only one thing: making pancakes (which I do every Sunday morning). But your recipe is a bit miserly on the eggs isn't it? Mine is 1 egg = 2 oz flour = 1/4pt milk. In general I think this imperial nostalgia is just another indicator of a country in decline.
Not really. Imperial measurements are just easier to use in many cases.
I use metric very little - even at work where everything is inches, feet, psi, barrels and pounds per gallon. I do like it for some things - actually measuring food for my diet is easier in metric but that is about all.
It means I am a damn sight better at mental arithmetic than almost all of my contemporaries and can easily switch back and forth between imperial and metric as desired.
I am teaching my son imperial alongside the metric he learns at school. Again I think it benefits him to be able to work in both. I would be just as annoyed about him not being able to work in metric units as I would about him being unable to work in imperial.
Our youngest was also born in 1975 - vintage year obviously
Sadly I was not born in 1975 - that was an error with formatting the original quote which I have now corrected.
I was a decade earlier. Again sadly given that means I am now far older than I want to be.
1960's. The decade in which our children were born. Now looking forward (?) to our 60th wedding anniversary!
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
That's not bleddy surprising, man!
Because they’re a bunch of arrogant bastards who hate Black people.
You’ve never been there have you? White South Africans - especially Afrikaaners - are definitely not arrogant. They have a deep cultural insecurity. Even an inferiority complex - towards European cultures. They’re even embarrassed by their ‘primitive’ language which the Dutch dismiss as ‘kitchen Dutch’ - a basic and uncouth form of the tongue.
If you have a cultural cringe towards the Dutch you have a definite issue with self-esteem. And afrikaaners also have an inferiority complex towards British settlers and culture, of course. We came in and stole their colony
This may partly explain their horrible attitude to black people, they are the hen-pecked husband who kicks the cat to assert his virility
It’s not that I don’t like it, and it’s all translatable via google, Now if I can say this very carefully so I can get away with it, but it’s true isn’t it, the Welsh spoken today is not historical Welsh?
Many years ago a panel of experts on Radio 4 all agreed the Welsh today was invented by a Professor (recall the debate not the name) not more than 100 years ago - and in terms of complexity Tolkien managed a better effort with his Elvish languages. That actual Welsh language is long gone - even practicing Druid’s today who have next to no idea what Druid’s really believed and practiced have more knowledge of Welsh than the Welsh do of the old Welsh language before the modern invention.
This is pretty accurate in’t it?
No.
Edit - in terms of Druids, or the Gorsedd to give them their correct title, they are a recent invention by an eighteenth century stonemason and poet called Edward Williams. Not really relevant to the language debate.
I used the reinvention of Gorseddism as metaphor, as example, but a good example as the reinvention of Welsh language used today is much the same thing isn’t it, a recent reinvention by a sub par Professor Tolkien?
No. It is not.
I have no idea where you are getting this idea from, but you are completely wrong. It was the common language of the majority of Welsh people until the First World War era. Not until 1870 when education was in English did that even start to change. Not until the mass call ups of the First World War and the turbulence of the Depression did English begin to seriously erode Welsh as the common language.
Previously, schooling had been done (for over a hundred years) by means of what was called the ‘circulating schools’ attached to the Methodist church teaching people to read (particularly) in Welsh. It was one of the most literate societies in the world, but few could speak or read English. Their learned societies based in London published works in Welsh that are perfectly recognisable to Welsh speakers today. Some of them were even named in Welsh (the Cymrodorion spring to mind). Whole universities were founded in the nineteenth century - Lampeter (1822) Carmarthen (1848) and Aberystwyth (1871) to teach through the medium of Welsh, for the simple reason that was the only language the population understood. Heck, the only Welsh PM (who left office 99 years ago) was actually born in England but his first language was Welsh. In 1919 he and his secretary Tom Jones (not that one!) had phone conversations in Welsh to keep all their negotiating strategy secret from eavesdroppers. In 1865 a Welsh group left for Argentina to found Y Wladfa, and their language is still perfectly comprehensible to modern Welsh speakers.
It is true that Welsh has become more formalised and standardised in the last hundred years, but the same is very true of English. And yet I as a researcher in nineteenth century history had no problem reading manuscripts in it. Or German - indeed, the German script has changed so dramatically since the 1940s you could call it a new form of written language, but again, I am sure the good Dr Palmer would have no trouble understanding the spoken form from a hundred years ago.
So I honestly don’t know who your experts were, but they were talking complete and utter nonsense.
I am assuming the professor in question was Sir Albert Jones-Evans, who under his Bardic name Cynan was Wales’ greatest First World War poet and Archdruid for years. But the idea he invented the language? Simply not correct.
I was speaking off top my head based on something stuck in my brain from pre internet time, I hadn’t looked into it.
I have now. They may have been referring to Iolo Morganwg. How would you estimate his impact on promotion of Welsh language?
Zero. He was important because the Welsh language was so widespread, not the other way around.
His work in founding the Gorsedd, as I noted above, is a bit different. That is as fake as a tin pound, but at the same time, it genuinely has been an important movement for literature and art over several centuries.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
That's not bleddy surprising, man!
Because they’re a bunch of arrogant bastards who hate Black people.
You’ve never been there have you? White South Africans - especially Afrikaaners - are definitely not arrogant. They have a deep cultural insecurity. Even an inferiority complex - towards European cultures. They’re even embarrassed by their ‘primitive’ language which the Dutch dismiss as ‘kitchen Dutch’ - a basic and uncouth form of the tongue.
If you have a cultural cringe towards the Dutch you have a definite issue with self-esteem. And afrikaaners also have an inferiority complex towards British settlers and culture, of course. We came in and stole their colony
This may partly explain their horrible attitude to black people, they are the hen-pecked husband who kicks the cat to assert his virility
I was quoting the song, Leon,..
Fair enough, I don’t remember it that well. I’m too young!
I’m also happily drunk outside a beautiful gastropub in Suffolk as the sun goes down over the Stour
A British cellist who was the first black winner of the 2016 BBC Young Musician award and played at the wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan had his passport cancelled by the Home Office.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
That's not bleddy surprising, man!
Because they’re a bunch of arrogant bastards who hate Black people.
You’ve never been there have you? White South Africans - especially Afrikaaners - are definitely not arrogant. They have a deep cultural insecurity. Even an inferiority complex - towards European cultures. They’re even embarrassed by their ‘primitive’ language which the Dutch dismiss as ‘kitchen Dutch’ - a basic and uncouth form of the tongue.
If you have a cultural cringe towards the Dutch you have a definite issue with self-esteem. And afrikaaners also have an inferiority complex towards British settlers and culture, of course. We came in and stole their colony
This may partly explain their horrible attitude to black people, they are the hen-pecked husband who kicks the cat to assert his virility
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
That's not bleddy surprising, man!
Because they’re a bunch of arrogant bastards who hate Black people.
You’ve never been there have you? White South Africans - especially Afrikaaners - are definitely not arrogant. They have a deep cultural insecurity. Even an inferiority complex - towards European cultures. They’re even embarrassed by their ‘primitive’ language which the Dutch dismiss as ‘kitchen Dutch’ - a basic and uncouth form of the tongue.
If you have a cultural cringe towards the Dutch you have a definite issue with self-esteem. And afrikaaners also have an inferiority complex towards British settlers and culture, of course. We came in and stole their colony
This may partly explain their horrible attitude to black people, they are the hen-pecked husband who kicks the cat to assert his virility
I was quoting the song, Leon,..
To be fair, I think Leon may, on this occasion, have a point.
I had a colleague whose (Communist) father had been expelled from S Africa. Lovely lady.
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
Given that no bugger under 50 understands them why would they do that? Ah yes of course. Silly me.
Hate to contradict you, but at the age of 38 I use imperial on the rare occasions I use anything at all.
At the age of 38 I haven't got the foggiest how imperial works.
Besides units that don't need anything doing them. I could say my height and weight in imperial, drive in miles and drink in pints . . . But anything that needs calculations? Give me SI units all day, every day.
Lucky you didn't have to learn pre-decimal currency. I'd like to abandon Imperial measurements, but so much of my gauging of things still happens in those old units - I think in miles when driving, I think in excess stones when on the scales, I think in feet when looking down.. , I think in pints for milk, and I'm pretty sure I'm 6ft tall.
Metric measurements are in all ways better, and we should abandon the Imperial units, and even more so the US should.
My daughter asked me a few weeks ago if I had ever used a farthing before…
On units of measurement, you have to have a feel whether something is big or small.
If I hear someone's mass in stone I can tell if they are a bit on the chunky side or not. In kilograms or (as the American's do it) pounds, I'm clueless.
For pressure, bar is the only sensible unit. If a pressure is quoted in Pascal (or kPa or MPa) I'm never confident that I've got the decimal point in the right place when I convert to bar. At least with psi I know to divide by 14.5.
And 1 billion scf ('scuffs') is a decent size natural gas field.
Funny to see someone talking in Scuffs on here. This evening I am monitoring drilling development wells on the Tolmount Field about 45 miles due east of Flamborough Head. All day talk of Scuffs has been rattling around my email.
Years ago, I used to provide support to the offshore bit of British Gas. Gas was always measured in scuffs. Then one day I attended a meeting with some onshore transmission people, and when I mentioned scuffs I thought they were about to have an attack of the vapours. Everything in scums for those folk.
A British cellist who was the first black winner of the 2016 BBC Young Musician award and played at the wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan had his passport cancelled by the Home Office.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
That's not bleddy surprising, man!
Because they’re a bunch of arrogant bastards who hate Black people.
You’ve never been there have you? White South Africans - especially Afrikaaners - are definitely not arrogant. They have a deep cultural insecurity. Even an inferiority complex - towards European cultures. They’re even embarrassed by their ‘primitive’ language which the Dutch dismiss as ‘kitchen Dutch’ - a basic and uncouth form of the tongue.
If you have a cultural cringe towards the Dutch you have a definite issue with self-esteem. And afrikaaners also have an inferiority complex towards British settlers and culture, of course. We came in and stole their colony
This may partly explain their horrible attitude to black people, they are the hen-pecked husband who kicks the cat to assert his virility
I was quoting the song, Leon,..
To be fair, I think Leon may, on this occasion, have a point.
I had a colleague whose (Communist) father had been expelled from S Africa. Lovely lady.
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
Given that no bugger under 50 understands them why would they do that? Ah yes of course. Silly me.
Hate to contradict you, but at the age of 38 I use imperial on the rare occasions I use anything at all.
At the age of 38 I haven't got the foggiest how imperial works.
Besides units that don't need anything doing them. I could say my height and weight in imperial, drive in miles and drink in pints . . . But anything that needs calculations? Give me SI units all day, every day.
I'm only slightly older and understand imperial pretty well, as well as metric.
You don't though. How many inches in a mile? (I'd guess you don't know)
I really don't know either (I can work it out). I do know how many centimeters there are in a kilometer though.
Imperial measures are tricky to fathom, and are miles out of date.
None, because centimetres are not technically a valid measurement.
centi = 1/100th in the system and metres are a standard definition. Do point out my error.
I think ydoethur made a boo boo.
Centimeter is not a valid unit of measurement, centimetre is though.
I was always taught that the three valid measurements are millimetre, metre and kilometre. And that anything in between (centimetre, decametre etc) was simply to make the sums easier.
Could be wrong. I was at school at the time, and it’s not a subject I ever took much interest in.
I don't think that's right.
My understanding is that the only true base unit of length is the metre.
Beyond that mm, cm, km etc are all related to the metre and all equally valid in SI.
The metre is the SI base unit of length. There is nothing particularly magical about it. Before SI, Victorian physicists used the cgs system – centimetre-gram-second – because those units were most natural for the objects scientists were dealing with at the time. SI is pretty much the same but scaled up a little bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centimetre-gram-second_system_of_units
Indeed though CGS isn't really used anymore.
The point though is that under SI a centimetre is quite literally 1 hundredth of a metre. A kilometre is quite literally 1000 metres.
The only base unit is the metre and then all measurements are related to that. So cm is as perfectly valid to use as km or mm. So too are more obscure measurements like Tm or Gm as far as I understand, not that I've ever come across either before.
I still have nightmares translating between CGS and SI for solar physics purposes. Fucking grim.
I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again, I wonder if the continued restrictions on foreign travel are, in part, a rather clever economic scheme to divert all of our tourist spending - which must be billions - to the needy and suffering UK hospitality sector, for a summer
On units of measurement, you have to have a feel whether something is big or small.
If I hear someone's mass in stone I can tell if they are a bit on the chunky side or not. In kilograms or (as the American's do it) pounds, I'm clueless.
For pressure, bar is the only sensible unit. If a pressure is quoted in Pascal (or kPa or MPa) I'm never confident that I've got the decimal point in the right place when I convert to bar. At least with psi I know to divide by 14.5.
And 1 billion scf ('scuffs') is a decent size natural gas field.
I always order in pounds at my butcher, because my mum taught me to cook and always used imperial. The butcher doesn’t seem to mind, he just sells me what I ask for and if it’s a few grams over or under lets me know before taking my money.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
House of Commons, 16 June 2021 vote on COVID restrictions: 461 - 60
Tellers for the Noes Mr Steve Baker Jackie Doyle-Price
Members voting No Afriyie, Adam Baillie, Siobhan Baldwin, Harriett Blackman, Bob Blunt, Crispin Bone, Mr Peter Bradley, rh Karen Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Brady, Sir Graham Bridgen, Andrew Brine, Steve Campbell, Mr Gregory Cates, Miriam Chope, Sir Christopher Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Colburn, Elliot Davies, Philip Davis, rh Mr David Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Drax, Richard Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Francois, rh Mr Mark Fysh, Mr Marcus Girvan, Paul Grayling, rh Chris Green, Chris Gwynne, Andrew Harper, rh Mr Mark Hollobone, Mr Philip Jones, rh Mr David Latham, Mrs Pauline Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Lewer, Andrew Lockhart, Carla Loder, Chris Lord, Mr Jonathan Loughton, Tim Mackinlay, Craig McCartney, Karl McPartland, Stephen McVey, rh Esther Merriman, Huw Morris, Anne Marie Paisley, Ian Pawsey, Mark Redwood, rh John Rosindell, Andrew Smith, Greg Smith, Henry Spellar, rh John Stringer, Graham Sturdy, Julian Swayne, rh Sir Desmond Syms, Sir Robert Tracey, Craig Twigg, Derek Walker, Sir Charles Warburton, David Wilson, rh Sammy Wragg, Mr William
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
Given that no bugger under 50 understands them why would they do that? Ah yes of course. Silly me.
Hate to contradict you, but at the age of 38 I use imperial on the rare occasions I use anything at all.
At the age of 38 I haven't got the foggiest how imperial works.
Besides units that don't need anything doing them. I could say my height and weight in imperial, drive in miles and drink in pints . . . But anything that needs calculations? Give me SI units all day, every day.
I'm only slightly older and understand imperial pretty well, as well as metric.
You don't though. How many inches in a mile? (I'd guess you don't know)
I really don't know either (I can work it out). I do know how many centimeters there are in a kilometer though.
Imperial measures are tricky to fathom, and are miles out of date.
None, because centimetres are not technically a valid measurement.
centi = 1/100th in the system and metres are a standard definition. Do point out my error.
I think ydoethur made a boo boo.
Centimeter is not a valid unit of measurement, centimetre is though.
I was always taught that the three valid measurements are millimetre, metre and kilometre. And that anything in between (centimetre, decametre etc) was simply to make the sums easier.
Could be wrong. I was at school at the time, and it’s not a subject I ever took much interest in.
I don't think that's right.
My understanding is that the only true base unit of length is the metre.
Beyond that mm, cm, km etc are all related to the metre and all equally valid in SI.
The metre is the SI base unit of length. There is nothing particularly magical about it. Before SI, Victorian physicists used the cgs system – centimetre-gram-second – because those units were most natural for the objects scientists were dealing with at the time. SI is pretty much the same but scaled up a little bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centimetre-gram-second_system_of_units
Indeed though CGS isn't really used anymore.
The point though is that under SI a centimetre is quite literally 1 hundredth of a metre. A kilometre is quite literally 1000 metres.
The only base unit is the metre and then all measurements are related to that. So cm is as perfectly valid to use as km or mm. So too are more obscure measurements like Tm or Gm as far as I understand, not that I've ever come across either before.
I still have nightmares translating between CGS and SI for solar physics purposes. Fucking grim.
When I was studying pharmacy we used metric, apothecaries and imperial weights, as GP's prescribed in all three, and we had to know how to convert between them so that the patient got the right dose.
It’s not that I don’t like it, and it’s all translatable via google, Now if I can say this very carefully so I can get away with it, but it’s true isn’t it, the Welsh spoken today is not historical Welsh?
Many years ago a panel of experts on Radio 4 all agreed the Welsh today was invented by a Professor (recall the debate not the name) not more than 100 years ago - and in terms of complexity Tolkien managed a better effort with his Elvish languages. That actual Welsh language is long gone - even practicing Druid’s today who have next to no idea what Druid’s really believed and practiced have more knowledge of Druidism than the Welsh do of the old Welsh language before the modern invention.
This is pretty accurate in’t it?
You sure you're not thinking of Cornish?
Yeah that's complete rubbish. The 1891 census of Wales asked whether people living in Wales spoke Welsh, English or both.
For example, in Monmouthshire there were 759k English only speakers, 508k Welsh only speakers and 402k who could speak both
I've got a commentary on the Bible, in Welsh. Effectively it's a Bible, because only OUP could publish bibles, and they weren't interested in doing so in Welsh.. Published about 1800. Belonged to my gt-grandfather. Massive thing. It was left to me by my Welsh-speaking grandmother. No idea who'll have it, or want it, after me!
I am certain a Welsh library would want it. Don’t let this bit of history be lost.
House of Commons, 16 June 2021 vote on COVID restrictions: 461 - 60
Tellers for the Noes Mr Steve Baker Jackie Doyle-Price
Members voting No Afriyie, Adam Baillie, Siobhan Baldwin, Harriett Blackman, Bob Blunt, Crispin Bone, Mr Peter Bradley, rh Karen Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Brady, Sir Graham Bridgen, Andrew Brine, Steve Campbell, Mr Gregory Cates, Miriam Chope, Sir Christopher Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Colburn, Elliot Davies, Philip Davis, rh Mr David Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Drax, Richard Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Francois, rh Mr Mark Fysh, Mr Marcus Girvan, Paul Grayling, rh Chris Green, Chris Gwynne, Andrew Harper, rh Mr Mark Hollobone, Mr Philip Jones, rh Mr David Latham, Mrs Pauline Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Lewer, Andrew Lockhart, Carla Loder, Chris Lord, Mr Jonathan Loughton, Tim Mackinlay, Craig McCartney, Karl McPartland, Stephen McVey, rh Esther Merriman, Huw Morris, Anne Marie Paisley, Ian Pawsey, Mark Redwood, rh John Rosindell, Andrew Smith, Greg Smith, Henry Spellar, rh John Stringer, Graham Sturdy, Julian Swayne, rh Sir Desmond Syms, Sir Robert Tracey, Craig Twigg, Derek Walker, Sir Charles Warburton, David Wilson, rh Sammy Wragg, Mr William
House of Commons, 16 June 2021 vote on COVID restrictions: 461 - 60
Tellers for the Noes Mr Steve Baker Jackie Doyle-Price
Members voting No Afriyie, Adam Baillie, Siobhan Baldwin, Harriett Blackman, Bob Blunt, Crispin Bone, Mr Peter Bradley, rh Karen Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Brady, Sir Graham Bridgen, Andrew Brine, Steve Campbell, Mr Gregory Cates, Miriam Chope, Sir Christopher Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Colburn, Elliot Davies, Philip Davis, rh Mr David Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Drax, Richard Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Francois, rh Mr Mark Fysh, Mr Marcus Girvan, Paul Grayling, rh Chris Green, Chris Gwynne, Andrew Harper, rh Mr Mark Hollobone, Mr Philip Jones, rh Mr David Latham, Mrs Pauline Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Lewer, Andrew Lockhart, Carla Loder, Chris Lord, Mr Jonathan Loughton, Tim Mackinlay, Craig McCartney, Karl McPartland, Stephen McVey, rh Esther Merriman, Huw Morris, Anne Marie Paisley, Ian Pawsey, Mark Redwood, rh John Rosindell, Andrew Smith, Greg Smith, Henry Spellar, rh John Stringer, Graham Sturdy, Julian Swayne, rh Sir Desmond Syms, Sir Robert Tracey, Craig Twigg, Derek Walker, Sir Charles Warburton, David Wilson, rh Sammy Wragg, Mr William
It’s not that I don’t like it, and it’s all translatable via google, Now if I can say this very carefully so I can get away with it, but it’s true isn’t it, the Welsh spoken today is not historical Welsh?
Many years ago a panel of experts on Radio 4 all agreed the Welsh today was invented by a Professor (recall the debate not the name) not more than 100 years ago - and in terms of complexity Tolkien managed a better effort with his Elvish languages. That actual Welsh language is long gone - even practicing Druid’s today who have next to no idea what Druid’s really believed and practiced have more knowledge of Druidism than the Welsh do of the old Welsh language before the modern invention.
This is pretty accurate in’t it?
You sure you're not thinking of Cornish?
Yeah that's complete rubbish. The 1891 census of Wales asked whether people living in Wales spoke Welsh, English or both.
For example, in Monmouthshire there were 759k English only speakers, 508k Welsh only speakers and 402k who could speak both
I've got a commentary on the Bible, in Welsh. Effectively it's a Bible, because only OUP could publish bibles, and they weren't interested in doing so in Welsh.. Published about 1800. Belonged to my gt-grandfather. Massive thing. It was left to me by my Welsh-speaking grandmother. No idea who'll have it, or want it, after me!
I am certain a Welsh library would want it. Don’t let this bit of history be lost.
I won't. TBH I think my cousin might want it. He's into Family History.
A British cellist who was the first black winner of the 2016 BBC Young Musician award and played at the wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan had his passport cancelled by the Home Office.
Seems to be some kind of Home Office error...
Source? Is that Sheku Kanneh-Mason? That's a big deal if so, he is a rapidly rising star.
I see IDS’s deregulation taskforce has proposed the return of imperial measures.
A replacement, or alongside? The two are quite different.
“Recommendation: Amend the Weights and Measures Act 1985 to allow traders to use imperial measurements without the equivalent metric measurement.”
Given that no bugger under 50 understands them why would they do that? Ah yes of course. Silly me.
Hate to contradict you, but at the age of 38 I use imperial on the rare occasions I use anything at all.
At the age of 38 I haven't got the foggiest how imperial works.
Besides units that don't need anything doing them. I could say my height and weight in imperial, drive in miles and drink in pints . . . But anything that needs calculations? Give me SI units all day, every day.
Lucky you didn't have to learn pre-decimal currency. I'd like to abandon Imperial measurements, but so much of my gauging of things still happens in those old units - I think in miles when driving, I think in excess stones when on the scales, I think in feet when looking down.. , I think in pints for milk, and I'm pretty sure I'm 6ft tall.
Metric measurements are in all ways better, and we should abandon the Imperial units, and even more so the US should.
My daughter asked me a few weeks ago if I had ever used a farthing before…
My pocket money was half a crown for a while. I saved four pounds, and bought 4 premium bonds, which I still have. An odd thing to do at 10 or so.
The Queen she came to call on us She wanted to see all of us I'm glad she didn't fall on us, she's eighteen stone 'Mister Me Lord Mayor,' says she 'Is this all you've got to show me?' 'Why, no ma'am there's some more to see, Pogue Mahone!'
And he took her up Monto, Monto, Monto Take her up to Monto, lan-ge- roo To you!
My apologies to Empire loyalists. Also to all those judged by society (and medicine) as too short for their weight.
Waitrose has been forced to stop using the name kaffir for its range of dried lime leaves after customers complained about the word’s racist connotations.
Clearly nobody at the supermarket chain appeared to be aware that for decades the word was used as a derogatory term for blacks, particularly under South Africa’s brutal apartheid regime.
Such is the word’s noxious legacy that it is now regarded as hate speech in post-apartheid South Africa, leading to an estate agent being jailed in 2018 for using the word 48 times against a black police officer.
Following complaints on social media and in letters to the supermarket chain, Waitrose has now announced it is to abandon the term and rename its Cooks’ Ingredients lime leaves as Makrut Lime Leaves.
Russell Davies, the host of Radio 4’s Brain of Britain, wrote on Twitter: “Why do Waitrose still sell "kaffir" lime leaves under that name? "... the term kaffir to refer to a Black African is a profoundly offensive and inflammatory expression" (Merriam-Webster). If you mean no offence, why risk causing it?"
The new packaging of the dried leaves, which are a popular ingredient in South East Asian cuisine, will be rolled out to all shops and Waitrose.com by early next year, once the current stock has been sold.
I don’t think the hole Waitrose have dug is getting shallower.
What hole? It's been called this for over a hundred years.
When I hear the word ‘kaffir’ I immediately think, ‘racist word used in Africa to describe black people.’
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
It was definitely used in South Africa in a repulsively racist way
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Are you saying you have never met a nice South African?
That's not bleddy surprising, man!
Because they’re a bunch of arrogant bastards who hate Black people.
You’ve never been there have you? White South Africans - especially Afrikaaners - are definitely not arrogant. They have a deep cultural insecurity. Even an inferiority complex - towards European cultures. They’re even embarrassed by their ‘primitive’ language which the Dutch dismiss as ‘kitchen Dutch’ - a basic and uncouth form of the tongue.
If you have a cultural cringe towards the Dutch you have a definite issue with self-esteem. And afrikaaners also have an inferiority complex towards British settlers and culture, of course. We came in and stole their colony
This may partly explain their horrible attitude to black people, they are the hen-pecked husband who kicks the cat to assert his virility
I was quoting the song, Leon,..
To be fair, I think Leon may, on this occasion, have a point.
I had a colleague whose (Communist) father had been expelled from S Africa. Lovely lady.
Afrikaaners are like most South Africans of all ethnicities, friendly and hospitable people, generous and proud of their history and culture. Like other South Africans their hostility is to their fellow countrymen.
Theirs is a pre-Enlightenment culture, based on a pioneering occupation of others lands, kin ties and an unsophisticated Protestantism. There is much in common with American Hillbilly culture, and Ulster Protestants. They understand that they are looked down upon by others, so take refuge in their tight knit communities. I don't think that they have a cultural cringe about other cultures, so much as a contempt for decadence and moral degeneracy of them.
One of my most vivid memories was being the guest at an Afrikaaner stag night, climbing a mountain, with a braai at a hut an hour or so short of the summit, which we clambered up to for dawn over the African plain. We swapped stories late into the night, discussing cabbages and Kings under the most spectacular starry southern sky. Lekker.
It’s not that I don’t like it, and it’s all translatable via google, Now if I can say this very carefully so I can get away with it, but it’s true isn’t it, the Welsh spoken today is not historical Welsh?
Many years ago a panel of experts on Radio 4 all agreed the Welsh today was invented by a Professor (recall the debate not the name) not more than 100 years ago - and in terms of complexity Tolkien managed a better effort with his Elvish languages. That actual Welsh language is long gone - even practicing Druid’s today who have next to no idea what Druid’s really believed and practiced have more knowledge of Welsh than the Welsh do of the old Welsh language before the modern invention.
This is pretty accurate in’t it?
No.
Edit - in terms of Druids, or the Gorsedd to give them their correct title, they are a recent invention by an eighteenth century stonemason and poet called Edward Williams. Not really relevant to the language debate.
I used the reinvention of Gorseddism as metaphor, as example, but a good example as the reinvention of Welsh language used today is much the same thing isn’t it, a recent reinvention by a sub par Professor Tolkien?
No. It is not.
I have no idea where you are getting this idea from, but you are completely wrong. It was the common language of the majority of Welsh people until the First World War era. Not until 1870 when education was in English did that even start to change. Not until the mass call ups of the First World War and the turbulence of the Depression did English begin to seriously erode Welsh as the common language.
Previously, schooling had been done (for over a hundred years) by means of what was called the ‘circulating schools’ attached to the Methodist church teaching people to read (particularly) in Welsh. It was one of the most literate societies in the world, but few could speak or read English. Their learned societies based in London published works in Welsh that are perfectly recognisable to Welsh speakers today. Some of them were even named in Welsh (the Cymrodorion spring to mind). Whole universities were founded in the nineteenth century - Lampeter (1822) Carmarthen (1848) and Aberystwyth (1871) to teach through the medium of Welsh, for the simple reason that was the only language the population understood. Heck, the only Welsh PM (who left office 99 years ago) was actually born in England but his first language was Welsh. In 1919 he and his secretary Tom Jones (not that one!) had phone conversations in Welsh to keep all their negotiating strategy secret from eavesdroppers. In 1865 a Welsh group left for Argentina to found Y Wladfa, and their language is still perfectly comprehensible to modern Welsh speakers.
It is true that Welsh has become more formalised and standardised in the last hundred years, but the same is very true of English. And yet I as a researcher in nineteenth century history had no problem reading manuscripts in it. Or German - indeed, the German script has changed so dramatically since the 1940s you could call it a new form of written language, but again, I am sure the good Dr Palmer would have no trouble understanding the spoken form from a hundred years ago.
So I honestly don’t know who your experts were, but they were talking complete and utter nonsense.
I am assuming the professor in question was Sir Albert Jones-Evans, who under his Bardic name Cynan was Wales’ greatest First World War poet and Archdruid for years. But the idea he invented the language? Simply not correct.
I was speaking off top my head based on something stuck in my brain from pre internet time, I hadn’t looked into it.
I have now. They may have been referring to Iolo Morganwg. How would you estimate his impact on promotion of Welsh language?
Zero. He was important because the Welsh language was so widespread, not the other way around.
His work in founding the Gorsedd, as I noted above, is a bit different. That is as fake as a tin pound, but at the same time, it genuinely has been an important movement for literature and art over several centuries.
The link below was good old fight over it
“The Welsh language has roots dating back 6,500 years to the first settlers in Great Britain by the Indo-European Celtic Settlers,”
Versus.
“English as we know it today has changed a lot from Old English, which was a super cool language with lots of extra letters and is completely unrecognisable as the ancestor of today's language. It can be argued that Welsh hasn't changed quite as drastically as English over the centuries, but that doesn't make it any older either Welsh (and Cornish and Breton) come from the Brythonic language, which existed in Britain before Anglo-Saxon arrived, but that doesn't make Welsh older than English. No, English didn't 'come from German'. No, English didn't 'come from Latin'. And, goddamnit, no, English isn't a younger language than Welsh.”
Comments
Even in mediaeval times they realised that standard weights and measures facilitated trade.
This is just another imperial nostalgia exercise, and as @OnlyLivingBoy notes, emblematic of a culture in decline.
Which is presumably what the tribe and therefore the plant is named for.
I’m not in favour of cancelling or statue toppling or any of that rubbish, buuuut...in this particular case I would have made an exception.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaffir_lime
Kaffir lime is a fruit tree species in Asia! Nothing to do skin colour. Honestly. If someone takes offense (or more likely pretends they have) then they need educating that words can mean different things in different contexts. True that the words was a racial slur in apartheid Africa but who with a gram of intelligence could think that Waitrose by selling the leaves from the Kaffir Lime tree were out to insult black people?
Chances of Boris appearing on GB news....less than zero...
We wait. And we wait
That would certainly seem to make it to put it mildly, highly problematic, even leaving aside its later usage.
If I’m wrong in that, can you please explain how?
For example, in Monmouthshire there were 759k English only speakers, 508k Welsh only speakers and 402k who could speak both
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/download-data-hospital-and-icu-admission-rates-and-current-occupancy-covid-19
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
I've always been a big fan of thruppenny bits.
eg the Rotherham rapists would refer to ‘that kaffir slut’ etc etc
Rishi: Of course I’m a small government, fiscal conservative, because it’s not my money.'
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1405247447471955970?s=20
Although I would question your figures. I don’t think Monmouthshire had a population of 1.7 million in 1891.
My understanding is that the only true base unit of length is the metre.
Beyond that mm, cm, km etc are all related to the metre and all equally valid in SI.
It was left to me by my Welsh-speaking grandmother. No idea who'll have it, or want it, after me!
I want to be able to support a well managed, honest and apolitical police force that enforces rather than creates the law and which takes real responsibility when it makes mistakes.
Sadly that is not what we have. Responsibility for this lies both with the politicians and with the police themselves. Until someone takes charge and properly reforms the police we are going to continue to see them distrusted by the public and failing in their duty to protect and serve the public.
GB News has some promise.
One point sometimes made here is that France has had more Covid hospitalisations than the UK but fewer deaths, as if that's a sign of gallic statistical skulduggery.
The alternative explanation is that giving more people more intensive treatment helps them to recover better...
Woke & anti-Woke warriors, check it out!
https://www.bensoriginal.com/
Very similar story with another famous American brand, formerly "Aunt Jemima" pancake batter, which is morphing into "Pearl Mills".
Note that prior to the 1960s Civil Rights era, it was common practice in the US South for White people to call Blacks by their first name, and much less frequently by their surname. And VERY rarely Mr, Mrs or Miss; exceptions were a few educated professionals who were NOT thick on the ground in the rural Southland.
As an alternative, older Black people who were well-known and often quite respected in their local communities by White employers and others, would be called "Aunt" and "Uncle" along with their first names. This was a refection of generalized respect for older people, in a society were it was also very common for children to be taught to call any adult - or rather any White adult - Miss Daisy or Mr Davy or what-have-you. Which transfered to adults using the same form for obviously older people of their acquaintance.
Such as in the movie "Driving Miss Daisy". BTW, "Miss" being commonly pronounced "Miz" which morphed quite nicely with the rise of "Ms" in the 1970s & beyond.
The advertising concept behind "Aunt Jemima" and "Uncle Ben" was that they were first-class cooks at preparing typically Southern cuisine - such as rice and flapjacks - that were popular south, north, east and west.
Edit - not that I am in any way denigrating your family heirloom, which sounds a wonderful, rare and precious thing. But there were Bibles available in Welsh at the time.
You can already buy 1lb of strawberries, why care so much if someone were to want to buy them in grams?
Step 1: Google how to make pancakes.
Step 2: Click first link: https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/easy-pancakes
Step 3, recipe is
2 eggs
100g flour
300ml milk
300ml and 100g is a fairly easy recipe to follow!
I heard it many times when traveling there, generally from Afrikaaners.
They are the most perplexing people, incredibly warm, kind, and hospitable, super friendly, and then they will come out with a stream of pure and vile racism - of the worst kind - then they revert to being lovely
I haven’t been back in a decade, mind, so maybe it has changed
Which is why these things are standardised and regulated.
If I hear someone's mass in stone I can tell if they are a bit on the chunky side or not. In kilograms or (as the American's do it) pounds, I'm clueless.
For pressure, bar is the only sensible unit. If a pressure is quoted in Pascal (or kPa or MPa) I'm never confident that I've got the decimal point in the right place when I convert to bar. At least with psi I know to divide by 14.5.
And 1 billion scf ('scuffs') is a decent size natural gas field.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centimetre-gram-second_system_of_units
My guess is that they've sold out but maybe I'm wrong?
This was printed by a firm in Edinburgh.
It's got some family details in it, handwritten in a space provided. I suspect, but I'll never know, that it hints at a family rift of some sort, given what else I've found.
I use metric very little - even at work where everything is inches, feet, psi, barrels and pounds per gallon. I do like it for some things - actually measuring food for my diet is easier in metric but that is about all.
It means I am a damn sight better at mental arithmetic than almost all of my contemporaries and can easily switch back and forth between imperial and metric as desired.
I am teaching my son imperial alongside the metric he learns at school. Again I think it benefits him to be able to work in both. I would be just as annoyed about him not being able to work in metric units as I would about him being unable to work in imperial.
Top people the Greeks though. Are there any actually universally accepted bad Greeks? Tsolakologlou maybe - I actually had to look him up, although I knew of him.
Very easy to weaponize in the current climate - clue is in the last word 😀
Our youngest was also born in 1975 - vintage year obviously
For example, I know exactly what is a healthy weight in kg but I'd have no idea in Stone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5-s-4KPtD8
On the other hand I think the peaceful handover of power by Afrikaaners was one of the nobler acts in human history. Yes, it came after much evil, and they were pressurized. Nonetheless they did it. Peacefully
And it could be argued their worst fears have come true, since, if you look at the crime rate
I was a decade earlier. Again sadly given that means I am now far older than I want to be.
The point though is that under SI a centimetre is quite literally 1 hundredth of a metre. A kilometre is quite literally 1000 metres.
The only base unit is the metre and then all measurements are related to that. So cm is as perfectly valid to use as km or mm. So too are more obscure measurements like Tm or Gm as far as I understand, not that I've ever come across either before.
If you have a cultural cringe towards the Dutch you have a definite issue with self-esteem. And afrikaaners also have an inferiority complex towards British settlers and culture, of course. We came in and stole their colony
This may partly explain their horrible attitude to black people, they are the hen-pecked husband who kicks the cat to assert his virility
I have now. They may have been referring to Iolo Morganwg. How would you estimate his impact on promotion of Welsh language?
His work in founding the Gorsedd, as I noted above, is a bit different. That is as fake as a tin pound, but at the same time, it genuinely has been an important movement for literature and art over several centuries.
I’m also happily drunk outside a beautiful gastropub in Suffolk as the sun goes down over the Stour
Burp
Seems to be some kind of Home Office error...
I had a colleague whose (Communist) father had been expelled from S Africa. Lovely lady.
All the best products were selected for export.
Good night.
Undoubtedly an insulting term in Southern Africa.
Tellers for the Noes
Mr Steve Baker
Jackie Doyle-Price
Members voting No
Afriyie, Adam
Baillie, Siobhan
Baldwin, Harriett
Blackman, Bob
Blunt, Crispin
Bone, Mr Peter
Bradley, rh Karen
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brady, Sir Graham
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Campbell, Mr Gregory
Cates, Miriam
Chope, Sir Christopher
Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey
Colburn, Elliot
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh Mr David
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Drax, Richard
Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Fysh, Mr Marcus
Girvan, Paul
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, Chris
Gwynne, Andrew
Harper, rh Mr Mark
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Jones, rh Mr David
Latham, Mrs Pauline
Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma
Lewer, Andrew
Lockhart, Carla
Loder, Chris
Lord, Mr Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Mackinlay, Craig
McCartney, Karl
McPartland, Stephen
McVey, rh Esther
Merriman, Huw
Morris, Anne Marie
Paisley, Ian
Pawsey, Mark
Redwood, rh John
Rosindell, Andrew
Smith, Greg
Smith, Henry
Spellar, rh John
Stringer, Graham
Sturdy, Julian
Swayne, rh Sir Desmond
Syms, Sir Robert
Tracey, Craig
Twigg, Derek
Walker, Sir Charles
Warburton, David
Wilson, rh Sammy
Wragg, Mr William
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2021-06-16/division/5F1E0E94-7BD3-4C77-9F1F-2CF56416C72E/Coronavirus?outputType=Names
The Queen she came to call on us
She wanted to see all of us
I'm glad she didn't fall on us, she's eighteen stone
'Mister Me Lord Mayor,' says she
'Is this all you've got to show me?'
'Why, no ma'am there's some more to see, Pogue Mahone!'
And he took her up Monto, Monto, Monto
Take her up to Monto, lan-ge- roo
To you!
My apologies to Empire loyalists. Also to all those judged by society (and medicine) as too short for their weight.
Theirs is a pre-Enlightenment culture, based on a pioneering occupation of others lands, kin ties and an unsophisticated Protestantism. There is much in common with American Hillbilly culture, and Ulster Protestants. They understand that they are looked down upon by others, so take refuge in their tight knit communities. I don't think that they have a cultural cringe about other cultures, so much as a contempt for decadence and moral degeneracy of them.
One of my most vivid memories was being the guest at an Afrikaaner stag night, climbing a mountain, with a braai at a hut an hour or so short of the summit, which we clambered up to for dawn over the African plain. We swapped stories late into the night, discussing cabbages and Kings under the most spectacular starry southern sky. Lekker.
“The Welsh language has roots dating back 6,500 years to the first settlers in Great Britain by the Indo-European Celtic Settlers,”
Versus.
“English as we know it today has changed a lot from Old English, which was a super cool language with lots of extra letters and is completely unrecognisable as the ancestor of today's language. It can be argued that Welsh hasn't changed quite as drastically as English over the centuries, but that doesn't make it any older either Welsh (and Cornish and Breton) come from the Brythonic language, which existed in Britain before Anglo-Saxon arrived, but that doesn't make Welsh older than English. No, English didn't 'come from German'. No, English didn't 'come from Latin'. And, goddamnit, no, English isn't a younger language than Welsh.”
https://dreamsanddialects.weebly.com/dreams--dialects/4-welsh-language-myths-that-need-busting
There certainly seems ground to argue over how old a language is, as they do undergo change, does that leave them the same thing
But my assertions, in my original postings on this, remain groundless without citation supporting them.
If anything modern Welsh is less altered from Old Welsh than modern English from Old English.
I was wrong.
I will now slink away.