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Three Mistakes – politicalbetting.com

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169
    edited June 2021
    Wales 2,981 1sts 6,663 2nds - would like to see 2nds higher quite honestly, 1st doses in Wales so far ahead it doesn't really matter all that much might be starting to see demand limitation.
    Wales remains at 79 days between jabs.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Pulpstar said:

    The papers seem remarkably light on the details of Johnson's delay. Meanwhile there are some very, very unhappy tory backbenchers out there and Starmer is not saying he will support the government.

    Is Johnson locked in a room somewhere shaking like a leaf?

    I'd be surprised if Starmer opposed Boris on not opening up further. You never know though.
    The obvious line is the one Nick Symonds-Thomas has been essaying.

    We're forced to continue restrictions now because the government ignored our warnings then.

    It will need to be super snappy to make it stick, though.
    On the other hand, Starmer demanding the continuation of furlough and then voting against the government when that was denied would be a neat way out of a cul de sac.

    I don't imagine Labour's young voters will be particularly enthused by Emily Thornberry telling them they can never travel again.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Meanwhile joined up government building back and levelling up continues. Just as HM Treasury plans to move functions to Darlington, LNER propose a timetable to reduce the number of trains and add 15 minutes to journey times...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Considering that the unvaccinated and the cases are in the young, is there any evidence on whether the young want to continue with lockdowns or not?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    The luvvies from the music and theatre industry are all over the telly saying they will be finished if there's a delay.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The luvvies from the music and theatre industry are all over the telly saying they will be finished if there's a delay.

    Where were they for the past month or two when all the attention on the media was the Zero Covid idiots?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,588

    GIN1138 said:

    What large surge? Part 2.

    image

    This is insane. Lift lockdown now.

    Indeed! Given the vaccine miracle it's hospitalizations and deaths that are the key measurement not infections.

    If the vaccine means there's 100,000 people with a summer cold in a few weeks then so what? That's no reason to keep the lockdown going...
    HMG have screwed up royally on several occasions during Covid and should be held to account for it (they probably won't though).

    However, on this delay, I think they are right.

    Cases are clearly accelerating exponentially again. The question is whether the vaccination programme will stop hospitalisations and deaths following suit. Chances are it will but it's just a bit too early to say because as we all know hospitalisations and deaths lag cases by a few weeks. (Hospitalisations are up 15% in the past 7 days so there is clearly a risk that the vaccinations are not proving effective enough.)

    In the next few weeks we will see more clearly the extent to which the surge in cases feeds through to a surge in deaths. I hope and believe it won't but I think the delay is the right choice at this point.
    15% in 7 days is puny.

    At that rate it would take six months to get back to the winter peak, but the reality is of course that in that time it will burn out of the unvaccinated young people its spreading between and the vaccine rollout would be continuing too.
    Three weeks ago cases were increasing at 15%; now they are increasing at 50% per week.
    Can you show your maths for that? I see cases 3 wees ago rising much faster than that, but in-hospital figures after lag aren't rising anything like as much.
    Cases by specimen date -

    image

    Admissions

    image
    image

    Looking at 4 weeks of hospitalisations for under 55s up until the 6th of June and the 4 weeks of cases from seven days earlier than that, they do seem to rise similarly:







    (7-day totals of each taken in order to smooth out the inevitable weekday fluctuations).

    It does seem to be growing a bit slower in the hospital admissions for the under 55s than in cases; I suspect because over the period of that graph, we're grinding down the ages on vaxxing.

    In-hospital figures are growing slower because the under-55s stay in for less time than the older ones and the proportion of these has been growing (looks like about 7 days versus 11 days); this buys us time while the shift goes on, but it does saturate when it becomes overwhelmingly dominant at the under-55s; we don't keep ticking down to 5 days, 4 days, 3 days, etc.



    Cases seem to really take off around 31st may

    image

    and 5th of June for the hospitalisations.

    image

    I think that's not spotting exponential growth until it is way too late. They've clearly taken off around 17th May. It's a bit noisy in the cases graph, but presumably they have taken off a bit earlier than that.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    edited June 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    The papers seem remarkably light on the details of Johnson's delay. Meanwhile there are some very, very unhappy tory backbenchers out there and Starmer is not saying he will support the government.

    Is Johnson locked in a room somewhere shaking like a leaf?

    I'd be surprised if Starmer opposed Boris on not opening up further. You never know though.
    The obvious line is the one Nick Symonds-Thomas has been essaying.

    We're forced to continue restrictions now because the government ignored our warnings then.

    It will need to be super snappy to make it stick, though.
    On the other hand, Starmer demanding the continuation of furlough and then voting against the government when that was denied would be a neat way out of a cul de sac.

    I don't imagine Labour's young voters will be particularly enthused by Emily Thornberry telling them they can never travel again.
    That wasn't what I heard an impressive Ms Thornberry saying. What I did hear her say was that we wouldn't rejoin the EU. Not that we'd continue to be as bloody minded about it as this Conservative Government seems to be insisting on being.

    And I suggest that the reason why a Labour Government wouldn't Rejoin was that the EU would need a great deal of reassurance that a subsequent Conservative administration wouldn't continue that bloody-mindedness.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    The luvvies from the music and theatre industry are all over the telly saying they will be finished if there's a delay.

    Where were they for the past month or two when all the attention on the media was the Zero Covid idiots?
    In fairness, they have to be invited on the shows – there will be an element of selection bias at play, insofar as the zerocovidians seem to have a season ticket to the BBC and Sky studios.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169
    Strong couple of days 1st dose vaccination for Tower Hamlets and Newham, supply being redirected and demand opened up (To all I presume) in weaker areas perhaps.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    The luvvies from the music and theatre industry are all over the telly saying they will be finished if there's a delay.

    Where were they for the past month or two when all the attention on the media was the Zero Covid idiots?
    well its a good question, but I must say Simon Callow does deliver the line 'We'll all be finished by then...' pretty well.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Pulpstar said:

    The papers seem remarkably light on the details of Johnson's delay. Meanwhile there are some very, very unhappy tory backbenchers out there and Starmer is not saying he will support the government.

    Is Johnson locked in a room somewhere shaking like a leaf?

    I'd be surprised if Starmer opposed Boris on not opening up further. You never know though.
    The obvious line is the one Nick Symonds-Thomas has been essaying.

    We're forced to continue restrictions now because the government ignored our warnings then.

    It will need to be super snappy to make it stick, though.
    On the other hand, Starmer demanding the continuation of furlough and then voting against the government when that was denied would be a neat way out of a cul de sac.

    I don't imagine Labour's young voters will be particularly enthused by Emily Thornberry telling them they can never travel again.
    Absolutely. I was thinking exactly this. They should demand massive compensation for the arts/clubbing/music sectors – and when denied oppose the extension. "We cannot back this act which will mean disaster for millions of workers".

    Would be very smart indeed.


    So they probably won't do it.
  • The Times are reporting one arrest following the defibrillator incident. No comments allowed, which is probably just as well given my incandescence. My husband's life was saved with one 8 years ago.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Pulpstar said:

    The papers seem remarkably light on the details of Johnson's delay. Meanwhile there are some very, very unhappy tory backbenchers out there and Starmer is not saying he will support the government.

    Is Johnson locked in a room somewhere shaking like a leaf?

    I'd be surprised if Starmer opposed Boris on not opening up further. You never know though.
    The obvious line is the one Nick Symonds-Thomas has been essaying.

    We're forced to continue restrictions now because the government ignored our warnings then.

    It will need to be super snappy to make it stick, though.
    On the other hand, Starmer demanding the continuation of furlough and then voting against the government when that was denied would be a neat way out of a cul de sac.

    I don't imagine Labour's young voters will be particularly enthused by Emily Thornberry telling them they can never travel again.
    Absolutely. I was thinking exactly this. They should demand massive compensation for the arts/clubbing/music sectors – and when denied oppose the extension. "We cannot back this act which will mean disaster for millions of workers".

    Would be very smart indeed.

    So they probably won't do it.
    LOL indeed !!!!

    Also, Sunak has clearly obtained the end of furlough as a condition of support for Johnson. So he will never countenance spending that money.

    Labour might be able to get Johnson's head on a stick here if they wanted it.

    Do they?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Crikey! At long last!

    Looks to be superb quality juice.

    Can they actually produce enough of it though?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414

    The Times are reporting one arrest following the defibrillator incident. No comments allowed, which is probably just as well given my incandescence. My husband's life was saved with one 8 years ago.

    Def. two people involved. One male, one female. Wonder which one.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,207
    mwadams said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What large surge? Part 2.

    image

    This is insane. Lift lockdown now.

    Indeed! Given the vaccine miracle it's hospitalizations and deaths that are the key measurement not infections.

    If the vaccine means there's 100,000 people with a summer cold in a few weeks then so what? That's no reason to keep the lockdown going...
    HMG have screwed up royally on several occasions during Covid and should be held to account for it (they probably won't though).

    However, on this delay, I think they are right.

    Cases are clearly accelerating exponentially again. The question is whether the vaccination programme will stop hospitalisations and deaths following suit. Chances are it will but it's just a bit too early to say because as we all know hospitalisations and deaths lag cases by a few weeks. (Hospitalisations are up 15% in the past 7 days so there is clearly a risk that the vaccinations are not proving effective enough.)

    In the next few weeks we will see more clearly the extent to which the surge in cases feeds through to a surge in deaths. I hope and believe it won't but I think the delay is the right choice at this point.
    15% in 7 days is puny.

    At that rate it would take six months to get back to the winter peak, but the reality is of course that in that time it will burn out of the unvaccinated young people its spreading between and the vaccine rollout would be continuing too.
    Three weeks ago cases were increasing at 15%; now they are increasing at 50% per week.
    Can you show your maths for that? I see cases 3 wees ago rising much faster than that, but in-hospital figures after lag aren't rising anything like as much.
    Cases by specimen date -

    image

    Admissions

    image
    image

    Looking at 4 weeks of hospitalisations for under 55s up until the 6th of June and the 4 weeks of cases from seven days earlier than that, they do seem to rise similarly:







    (7-day totals of each taken in order to smooth out the inevitable weekday fluctuations).

    It does seem to be growing a bit slower in the hospital admissions for the under 55s than in cases; I suspect because over the period of that graph, we're grinding down the ages on vaxxing.

    In-hospital figures are growing slower because the under-55s stay in for less time than the older ones and the proportion of these has been growing (looks like about 7 days versus 11 days); this buys us time while the shift goes on, but it does saturate when it becomes overwhelmingly dominant at the under-55s; we don't keep ticking down to 5 days, 4 days, 3 days, etc.



    Cases seem to really take off around 31st may

    image

    and 5th of June for the hospitalisations.

    image

    I think that's not spotting exponential growth until it is way too late. They've clearly taken off around 17th May. It's a bit noisy in the cases graph, but presumably they have taken off a bit earlier than that.
    Oh yes - was commenting back in May on the upward numbers - especially hospital admission derived R.

    image

    But there is a definite (and very different) rate change at the dates we are talking about.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    edited June 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    The papers seem remarkably light on the details of Johnson's delay. Meanwhile there are some very, very unhappy tory backbenchers out there and Starmer is not saying he will support the government.

    Is Johnson locked in a room somewhere shaking like a leaf?

    I'd be surprised if Starmer opposed Boris on not opening up further. You never know though.
    The obvious line is the one Nick Symonds-Thomas has been essaying.

    We're forced to continue restrictions now because the government ignored our warnings then.

    It will need to be super snappy to make it stick, though.
    On the other hand, Starmer demanding the continuation of furlough and then voting against the government when that was denied would be a neat way out of a cul de sac.

    I don't imagine Labour's young voters will be particularly enthused by Emily Thornberry telling them they can never travel again.
    Absolutely. I was thinking exactly this. They should demand massive compensation for the arts/clubbing/music sectors – and when denied oppose the extension. "We cannot back this act which will mean disaster for millions of workers".

    Would be very smart indeed.

    So they probably won't do it.
    LOL indeed !!!!

    Also, Sunak has clearly obtained the end of furlough as a condition of support for Johnson. So he will never countenance spending that money.

    Labour might be able to get Johnson's head on a stick here if they wanted it.

    Do they?
    Opportunity knocks. Suddenly Starmer has all the power. If Labour don’t back it, this thing ends at 2359hrs on 30 June.
  • The Times are reporting one arrest following the defibrillator incident. No comments allowed, which is probably just as well given my incandescence. My husband's life was saved with one 8 years ago.

    Def. two people involved. One male, one female. Wonder which one.
    17-year-old male.

  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    Crikey! At long last!

    Looks to be superb quality juice.

    Can they actually produce enough of it though?
    They apparently already have "tens of millions" of doses in inventory and the design and type allegedly lend themselves to rapid scaling up.

    They don't seem in a hurry to get authorisation though ("third quarter of 2021") which is immensely frustrating. If the Government aren't talking to them about that, they're not doing their job.

    I mean, get an extra ten million first doses out there over the next three weeks and this thing is all but done.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Fishing said:

    The government bizarrely and pointlessly undermined the success of its own world-beating vaccine programme by saying that in the spring that it was lockdown that kept deaths down, not vaccinations. Given that, I'm surprised that uptake has remained as high as it has.

    I seem to be the only person on here who doesn't think quarantine would have done much if any good. It's a massive denial of civil liberties for people, 99% uselessly since most people aren't infected, and it's not entirely effective, even in Australia, where it's imposed globally. Here, there's a lot of evidence that people simply fly through third countries, there would be a big rush just before it is imposed which would get you lots of new cases, and the crowded airport arrival halls where people have to stay longer are perfect for spreading diseases. And it would only buy you a little time anyway as the virus would arrive through other sources.

    Vaccines are the answer at this stage. Neither lockdowns nor quarantine matter compared to that.

    Indian quarantine would have brought time for the vaccination program to push ahead.
    We're behind now because of the large number of delta variant seedings that took place.
    Yes.
    Without the repeated and widespread seedings of Delta, we'd be 4-7 weeks further back in the spread.
    Which would mean there would not have been any talk of delaying June 21st (we'd be looking at completing the vax programme before it could spike even without extra urgency)
    Yes, I think this is the key failing.

    I think how the next 3-4 weeks play out is crucial. I expect to see Delta stalling/plateauing with only modest increases in hospitalisations, and I think that will make lifting of restrictions by the end of July irresistible.

    I think SAGE needs to be rebooted too. There are just too many academics and professors in it - not enough cognitive or sectoral diversity - and there should be a recognition this will lead to too much conservative group-think. Also, they keep claiming they publish their minutes - but all I can find is technical briefing papers.

    I want the path that led them to reach their conclusions to be a matter of public record, including the dissenters - if there are any:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage-coronavirus-covid-19-response-membership/list-of-participants-of-sage-and-related-sub-groups
    One dissenter, Prof. Robert Dingwall, talks sense

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2021/03/23/zero-covid-strategy-makes-little-sense-risk-infection-falls/

    I understand ~4x as many people are dying from flu as from COVID. COVID's over. If we forgot about it, largely stopped testing, etc, life would go back to normal as in most of the USA, Sweden, etc.

    Also if Ivermectin et al were approved for COVID, the fatality rate would decline to near 0.000%, below flu I think. Safer and cheaper than the vaccines.

    We're all going to die ... at some point. But fewer people are dying in 2021 than in a 'normal' year. Isn't that enough?
    Ah - good old Ivermectin. I assume that we are not using is part of a massive conspiracy? Clearly Sage, the government, the NHS and all would like more people to die. Or maybe this is not the panacea you think it is? Can you point me to the studies that show its use would get the fatality rate to 0.000%? Do you not think that a myriad of different strategies have been tried to cure/save people with covid? If Ivermectin was so good, we'd know.
    I've posted this review article a couple of times, but might as well do so again.
    As with the other 'miracle' drugs which weren't, no large scale randomised trials (like the one we did for dexamathasome) have been conducted, but there are currently scores of small and statistically underpowered ones ongoing.

    Thus far, nothing very impressive.
    Ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19: A systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.21.21257595v2

    Btw, it's not true to say that systemic ivermectin is safer than vaccines. At dosages likely to show strong antiviral effects, it can have quite severe side effects.
    It is probably irresponsible to say this, but you can get the stuff for next to nothing OTC at pet/farm supply shops. Say you want to worm your budgie. Or rather, don't.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    "@patrickkmaguire

    Interesting postscript – if you talk to Labour campaigners in Batley and Spen, it isn't Lab-Con switchers they're worried about.

    "Nobody really switching to Tory. Our losses will be to Galloway... while we fight it out in Batley, the Tories can slowly chip away in Spen."

    https://twitter.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1404350510967185408
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Pulpstar said:

    The papers seem remarkably light on the details of Johnson's delay. Meanwhile there are some very, very unhappy tory backbenchers out there and Starmer is not saying he will support the government.

    Is Johnson locked in a room somewhere shaking like a leaf?

    I'd be surprised if Starmer opposed Boris on not opening up further. You never know though.
    The obvious line is the one Nick Symonds-Thomas has been essaying.

    We're forced to continue restrictions now because the government ignored our warnings then.

    It will need to be super snappy to make it stick, though.
    On the other hand, Starmer demanding the continuation of furlough and then voting against the government when that was denied would be a neat way out of a cul de sac.

    I don't imagine Labour's young voters will be particularly enthused by Emily Thornberry telling them they can never travel again.
    Absolutely. I was thinking exactly this. They should demand massive compensation for the arts/clubbing/music sectors – and when denied oppose the extension. "We cannot back this act which will mean disaster for millions of workers".

    Would be very smart indeed.

    So they probably won't do it.
    LOL indeed !!!!

    Also, Sunak has clearly obtained the end of furlough as a condition of support for Johnson. So he will never countenance spending that money.

    Labour might be able to get Johnson's head on a stick here if they wanted it.

    Do they?
    Opportunity knocks. Suddenly Starmer has all the power. If Labour don’t back it, this thing ends at 2359hrs on 30 July.
    June? Its the hope that kills, Anabo!!!!

    I wonder if the canary in the coalmine was Theresa May. It does seem as if the parliamentary party were more discontented than the press were reporting.


  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Have the Lib Dems got anything to say about lockdown?

    If they'd been campaigning against lockdown, instead of in favour of NIMBYism, then I'd want them to win C&A on Thursday, but it just seems complete silence from them instead.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,207

    Crikey! At long last!

    Looks to be superb quality juice.

    Can they actually produce enough of it though?
    They apparently already have "tens of millions" of doses in inventory and the design and type allegedly lend themselves to rapid scaling up.

    They don't seem in a hurry to get authorisation though ("third quarter of 2021") which is immensely frustrating. If the Government aren't talking to them about that, they're not doing their job.

    I mean, get an extra ten million first doses out there over the next three weeks and this thing is all but done.

    Crikey! At long last!

    Looks to be superb quality juice.

    Can they actually produce enough of it though?
    They apparently already have "tens of millions" of doses in inventory and the design and type allegedly lend themselves to rapid scaling up.

    They don't seem in a hurry to get authorisation though ("third quarter of 2021") which is immensely frustrating. If the Government aren't talking to them about that, they're not doing their job.

    I mean, get an extra ten million first doses out there over the next three weeks and this thing is all but done.
    Wasn't the first fill and finish work in the UK supposed to start in May?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    Meanwhile joined up government building back and levelling up continues. Just as HM Treasury plans to move functions to Darlington, LNER propose a timetable to reduce the number of trains and add 15 minutes to journey times...

    You miss out the £100m+ renovation of Darlington Station which the Government is funding.

    I really can't see the reductions being allowed.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169

    Pulpstar said:

    The papers seem remarkably light on the details of Johnson's delay. Meanwhile there are some very, very unhappy tory backbenchers out there and Starmer is not saying he will support the government.

    Is Johnson locked in a room somewhere shaking like a leaf?

    I'd be surprised if Starmer opposed Boris on not opening up further. You never know though.
    The obvious line is the one Nick Symonds-Thomas has been essaying.

    We're forced to continue restrictions now because the government ignored our warnings then.

    It will need to be super snappy to make it stick, though.
    On the other hand, Starmer demanding the continuation of furlough and then voting against the government when that was denied would be a neat way out of a cul de sac.

    I don't imagine Labour's young voters will be particularly enthused by Emily Thornberry telling them they can never travel again.
    Absolutely. I was thinking exactly this. They should demand massive compensation for the arts/clubbing/music sectors – and when denied oppose the extension. "We cannot back this act which will mean disaster for millions of workers".

    Would be very smart indeed.

    So they probably won't do it.
    LOL indeed !!!!

    Also, Sunak has clearly obtained the end of furlough as a condition of support for Johnson. So he will never countenance spending that money.

    Labour might be able to get Johnson's head on a stick here if they wanted it.

    Do they?
    Opportunity knocks. Suddenly Starmer has all the power. If Labour don’t back it, this thing ends at 2359hrs on 30 June.
    LOTOs don't often get an opportunity to make the weather. This is that opportunity. Will he seize it ? Is he a strong leader ?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Jonathan said:

    Still not sure what freedoms Freedom day offers beyond the ‘freedom’ to resume a long commute, to take off a mask I’m not remotely bothered about wearing or to be crammed closer to some dudes sweaty pits.

    I think it's right to say that a minority of people commute on trains to work, (or did before the pandemic). This sounds like a very London and south-east centric view of life. Most people drive to work and it takes less than 30 or 45 minutes IIRC.
    Interesting fact about commute times (apologies if this is well known): commute times have remained static for well over 100 years, at an average of about 40 minutes. When new infrastructure or technologies allow us to reduce our commute times, we respond by getting jobs further away. There is a slightly higher average in the south east but this can be explained solely by a concentration of higher-paying jobs (which makes it worth people's while to stretch beyond the 40-odd minutes).
    This is v interesting and explains why one of the key things you need to do to encourage economic growth is metro mass transit systems.

    Thereby, employers are able to access a larger pool of skilled labour (and in turn, employees are able to access a larger concentration of jobs).

    It’s something we’ve been astonishingly poor at this in this country because we have tended to rely on failed market solutions, and we also grudge subsidising commuters (since such systems seldom pay for themselves). Sadly in doing so we cut off out nose to save our face.

    Leeds is the largest city in Europe without a mass transit system.
    Agree entirely. There are a few subtleties though - metro mass transit systems don't necessarily have to run on rails. What they do need to do is be rapid, with predictable journey times (more predictable than driving, anyway). This therefore means they have to either be separated from general traffic or have some effective way of getting priority over it.

    Leeds does, if I recall, have some stretches of busway which do this to some extent - I don't know how effectively.

    We also have to consider where we want to serve with our mass transit - the working class communities with low car ownership or the middle class communities where the skilled labour is (and the greatest market for mass transit). Not an easy decision.
    Mass transit systems don't sound like a good idea at the moment, especially with people who think the pre-covid world was rubbish.
    'At the moment' being the operative phrase.

    My expectation is that demand for urban rapid transit in cities outside London will be higher in 2025 than it was in 2015.
    Trips per job will decrease (my central estimate is by about 20% - bear in mind that roughly 50% of city centre jobs cannot be done from home) but absolute numbers of city centre jobs will increase*; also non-work trips will increase. (This pattern is very good news for public transport, whose central problem is peakiness in demand, meaning crushes at peak times and an unprofitable carrying of empty air at other times).
    Cars - even connected autonomous vehicles - simply can't carry people in high enough volumes to meet demand in cities.

    Declaration of interest: my job basically depends on there being a future for public transport. There is a risk therefore that the above is informed by wishful thinking! But I have worked through the scenarios and my 'central' scenarios sees growth.

    *I have specified 'outside London' because I am less confident making this claim for London than I am for Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds etc.


    I think that, outside London, you may well be right.

    Real levelling up, as it were. Essentially the other major cities in the UK will grow relative to London. Part of that will require a massive catchup in public transport to get to a fraction of what London has.

    The interesting one in all this, is the possibility of total automation of tunnelling, which leads to some rather interesting effects. Combined with future generations of power and signalling delivery, there is the possibility of some major reductions in cost.
    Alternatively have a road network that works.

    Milton Keynes is a strange town with its roundabouts but it works, has fast moving roads and has a strong economy as a result.

    Rather than cramming more and more people into city high rises and trying to get them moving about in mass transit boxes, getting more new towns like Milton Keynes with roads that work would deal well with both the economy and housing.
    Yes - the young urban dynamos who are building the economy of tomorrow are clamouring to move to Milton Keynes.

    Actually, despite my sarcasm, I have some sympathy with your point - MK manages to provide a quarter of a million people with a home town which seems to lack most of the problems that are traditionally associated with urban living. (Most of all, it provides somewhere in Buckinghamshire where people can afford to live and raise a family.) But that's the point - it isn't urban living. It's a massive sprawl of suburbia. There's only so many people that that appeals to. And moreover, it could only be done because there was a blank canvas. You can't realistically turn existing cities into Milton Keynes, even if you wanted to.

    I know your views on this Philip and I can only say I disagree. And that's fine, we can both have our own tastes in urbanism. But I'm not sure people in general are keen to buy your vision.

    On a related note, do you have any views on Poundbury as an example of urbanism (small scale urbanism perhaps, but urbanism nonetheless)?

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Crikey! At long last!

    Looks to be superb quality juice.

    Can they actually produce enough of it though?
    They apparently already have "tens of millions" of doses in inventory and the design and type allegedly lend themselves to rapid scaling up.

    They don't seem in a hurry to get authorisation though ("third quarter of 2021") which is immensely frustrating. If the Government aren't talking to them about that, they're not doing their job.

    I mean, get an extra ten million first doses out there over the next three weeks and this thing is all but done.
    Absolutely. Government attention and probably aid required. There's not much point delaying this thing until the summer quarter. Get on with it Novovax!
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    https://order-order.com/2021/06/14/starmer-distances-himself-from-batley-spen-by-election-as-labour-fears-big-loss/

    To back up Andy Js point.

    Starmer desperately needs a win. Johnson's head would be such, surely.

    If he goes with the government this just goes on.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,207

    Have the Lib Dems got anything to say about lockdown?

    If they'd been campaigning against lockdown, instead of in favour of NIMBYism, then I'd want them to win C&A on Thursday, but it just seems complete silence from them instead.

    Left of centre, the support for lockdowns etc seems very hard. Until you get to the handfuls of Piers Corbyn types.

    Lots of zero COVID stuff....

    I reckon that if Starmer went anti-lockdown, that might kick off open warfare against him.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    https://twitter.com/garethicke/status/1404333887908716548?s=21

    The double whammy I feared.

    Sunak is not just a homunculus who worked at one of the dodgiest of dodgy hedge funds when RBS went belly up (and what I can tell you about the real story behind that would make everyone's ears burn) but a f***ing stupid irresponsible destructive bastard.

    Grr .....🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Pulpstar said:

    The papers seem remarkably light on the details of Johnson's delay. Meanwhile there are some very, very unhappy tory backbenchers out there and Starmer is not saying he will support the government.

    Is Johnson locked in a room somewhere shaking like a leaf?

    I'd be surprised if Starmer opposed Boris on not opening up further. You never know though.
    The obvious line is the one Nick Symonds-Thomas has been essaying.

    We're forced to continue restrictions now because the government ignored our warnings then.

    It will need to be super snappy to make it stick, though.
    On the other hand, Starmer demanding the continuation of furlough and then voting against the government when that was denied would be a neat way out of a cul de sac.

    I don't imagine Labour's young voters will be particularly enthused by Emily Thornberry telling them they can never travel again.
    Absolutely. I was thinking exactly this. They should demand massive compensation for the arts/clubbing/music sectors – and when denied oppose the extension. "We cannot back this act which will mean disaster for millions of workers".

    Would be very smart indeed.

    So they probably won't do it.
    LOL indeed !!!!

    Also, Sunak has clearly obtained the end of furlough as a condition of support for Johnson. So he will never countenance spending that money.

    Labour might be able to get Johnson's head on a stick here if they wanted it.

    Do they?
    Opportunity knocks. Suddenly Starmer has all the power. If Labour don’t back it, this thing ends at 2359hrs on 30 July.
    June? Its the hope that kills, Anabo!!!!

    I wonder if the canary in the coalmine was Theresa May. It does seem as if the parliamentary party were more discontented than the press were reporting.


    Yes, sorry – a typo in my OP. I meant 30 June. Now corrected.

    (P.S. I always thought it a bit dim that two neighbouring months have very similar names!!)
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The papers seem remarkably light on the details of Johnson's delay. Meanwhile there are some very, very unhappy tory backbenchers out there and Starmer is not saying he will support the government.

    Is Johnson locked in a room somewhere shaking like a leaf?

    I'd be surprised if Starmer opposed Boris on not opening up further. You never know though.
    The obvious line is the one Nick Symonds-Thomas has been essaying.

    We're forced to continue restrictions now because the government ignored our warnings then.

    It will need to be super snappy to make it stick, though.
    On the other hand, Starmer demanding the continuation of furlough and then voting against the government when that was denied would be a neat way out of a cul de sac.

    I don't imagine Labour's young voters will be particularly enthused by Emily Thornberry telling them they can never travel again.
    Absolutely. I was thinking exactly this. They should demand massive compensation for the arts/clubbing/music sectors – and when denied oppose the extension. "We cannot back this act which will mean disaster for millions of workers".

    Would be very smart indeed.

    So they probably won't do it.
    LOL indeed !!!!

    Also, Sunak has clearly obtained the end of furlough as a condition of support for Johnson. So he will never countenance spending that money.

    Labour might be able to get Johnson's head on a stick here if they wanted it.

    Do they?
    Opportunity knocks. Suddenly Starmer has all the power. If Labour don’t back it, this thing ends at 2359hrs on 30 June.
    LOTOs don't often get an opportunity to make the weather. This is that opportunity. Will he seize it ? Is he a strong leader ?
    Feels like you answered your own question at the end there.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Have the Lib Dems got anything to say about lockdown?

    If they'd been campaigning against lockdown, instead of in favour of NIMBYism, then I'd want them to win C&A on Thursday, but it just seems complete silence from them instead.

    Left of centre, the support for lockdowns etc seems very hard. Until you get to the handfuls of Piers Corbyn types.

    Lots of zero COVID stuff....

    I reckon that if Starmer went anti-lockdown, that might kick off open warfare against him.
    Yebbut furlough is ending. Support for beleaguered industries is drying up. This is now a tory lockdown.

    Will Starmer support that? He will want restrictions to continue on his terms.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206
    Jonathan said:

    Still not sure what freedoms Freedom day offers beyond the ‘freedom’ to resume a long commute, to take off a mask I’m not remotely bothered about wearing or to be crammed closer to some dudes sweaty pits.

    I don't usually do personal attacks, but this comment (and some of your follow ups that I've not bothered quoting) merits one.

    People on the left like you stink. Just because you are happy with your life, pleased that you don't have to do the commute that *you* signed up for when you took your job, you want people like me to have our lives made miserable by government dictat.

    I don't care if you want to carry on wearing a mask - that's your personal choice and freedom. Wear a gimp suit too if you want. But don't expect me to be wearing one too so you don't feel like a werdo. I can't see if I wear one, cos I wear glasses too. They are oppressive when you're doing manual work in hot weather - but I doubt you know what that is.

    You may not want to sing with your friends in a choir. That's fine. But don't demand that the full force of the law prevents me from doing that, just because you don't want to.

    I don't like nightclubs - I'm a type who likes a decent meal at an upmarket pub with my mates. But it's not for me to demand that nightclubs are closed, because I don't want to go to one. That should be up to those who want to go clubbing, the club owners and their staff. It's their business - not mine.

    Note - I don't want to make you do anything. I don't care if you never leave your house again, if that's your choice. Order everything in, disinfectant at the ready. Sit masked up in your living room in case someone dares breath out covid fumes in the street outside if it makes you happy. But stop selfishly demanding rules for other people, to wreck their lives.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1404292017589473281

    US officials are assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant but don't yet think the facility is at crisis level, US sources say


    The Chinese of course said nothing

  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 288
    Probably someone has already posted this but I can't see it. There seems be a Labour leaflet in Batley and Spen dwelling heavily on the subject of Palestine. I presume this means Galloway is cleaning up that section of the vote and Labour are, if not almost toast, very actually toast.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983

    Have the Lib Dems got anything to say about lockdown?

    If they'd been campaigning against lockdown, instead of in favour of NIMBYism, then I'd want them to win C&A on Thursday, but it just seems complete silence from them instead.

    Left of centre, the support for lockdowns etc seems very hard. Until you get to the handfuls of Piers Corbyn types.

    Lots of zero COVID stuff....

    I reckon that if Starmer went anti-lockdown, that might kick off open warfare against him.
    I'm not sure how we ended up in this situation but I don't think that reflects how public opinion and political leanings work outside Westminster. I am in a pretty lefty/liberal part of London and the general feeling is definitely becoming more anti-lockdown. But until recently most people in the UK seemed very cautious on Covid, across the spectrum.

    It's become party political, unfortunately, because the Tories appeared cavalier in the early days of the first and second waves. So the obvious opposition position was to be more pro-Lockdown. Now the government is becoming ever more cautious I would hope opposition sees the benefit in taking a position more aligned with civil liberties.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963
    Novavax has said its COVID-19 vaccine is 100% effective in protecting against "moderate and severe disease" following its phase three trial results.

    The American biotechnology company said the trial had shown its vaccine was also 93% effective against circulating variants of concern and variants of interest, and 91% effective in protecting high-risk populations.

    ----

    Slam dunk-aroony...
  • XtrainXtrain Posts: 341

    LBC NF asks SKS Why dont people like you?

    SKS Well Nick these polls go up and down

    Nick Respectfully they go down and down for you so far

    LOL

    GB News really missed out not hiring Nick Ferrari. He isn't quite Andrew Neil, but he is a cut above many and will rip most dullard politicians to threads.
    Maybe he didn't fancy signing up to crew the Titanic?
    Nick Ferrari currently gets 1.5 million listeners a week on LBC. Why on Earth would he move to a TV station that can only dream of those figures?
    He's only on for two hours in the morning. I'm sure he could manage something in his spare time.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    Floater said:

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1404292017589473281

    US officials are assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant but don't yet think the facility is at crisis level, US sources say


    The Chinese of course said nothing

    Probably something happened in the wet market, where they sell fissile materials like that all the time. Nothing to see here.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,012
    edited June 2021

    The papers seem remarkably light on the details of Johnson's delay. Meanwhile there are some very, very unhappy tory backbenchers out there and Starmer is not saying he will support the government.

    Is Johnson locked in a room somewhere shaking like a leaf?

    He is at Nato in Brussels with Joe Biden just now
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Floater said:

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1404292017589473281

    US officials are assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant but don't yet think the facility is at crisis level, US sources say


    The Chinese of course said nothing

    I'm not panicking until we get LeadricT's sober and informed analysis of this event.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,207
    Cyclefree said:

    https://twitter.com/garethicke/status/1404333887908716548?s=21

    The double whammy I feared.

    Sunak is not just a homunculus who worked at one of the dodgiest of dodgy hedge funds when RBS went belly up (and what I can tell you about the real story behind that would make everyone's ears burn) but a f***ing stupid irresponsible destructive bastard.

    Grr .....🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

    Don't you remember the story from the first lockdown? That there was going to be absolutely no financial support. Cabinet source.... 1 hour before Sunak stood up...

    Hell, I would only be half surprised if they announced the 21st is 100% on.

    The interesting thing is how the journalists are really disconnected from the inside, these days. Probably a Brexit thing. But it is interesting how they are plain "not plugged in" - certainly not the way they were under Brown, for example.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Cyclefree said:

    https://twitter.com/garethicke/status/1404333887908716548?s=21

    The double whammy I feared.

    Sunak is not just a homunculus who worked at one of the dodgiest of dodgy hedge funds when RBS went belly up (and what I can tell you about the real story behind that would make everyone's ears burn) but a f***ing stupid irresponsible destructive bastard.

    Grr .....🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬


    It is a ploy to to put pressure on Johnson Ms Cyclefree.

    This cannot go on much longer without furlough. Johnson is going to be in all sorts of bother when the money stops flowing

    Its cynical in the extreme but that is not necessarily bad for Sunak.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,207
    Dura_Ace said:

    Floater said:

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1404292017589473281

    US officials are assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant but don't yet think the facility is at crisis level, US sources say


    The Chinese of course said nothing

    I'm not panicking until we get LeadricT's sober and informed analysis of this event.
    Surely a wall of flint objects would create a fair radiation shield?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Dura_Ace said:

    Floater said:

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1404292017589473281

    US officials are assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant but don't yet think the facility is at crisis level, US sources say


    The Chinese of course said nothing

    I'm not panicking until we get LeadricT's sober and informed analysis of this event.
    I had to like that - made me LOL
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963
    edited June 2021
    Xtrain said:

    LBC NF asks SKS Why dont people like you?

    SKS Well Nick these polls go up and down

    Nick Respectfully they go down and down for you so far

    LOL

    GB News really missed out not hiring Nick Ferrari. He isn't quite Andrew Neil, but he is a cut above many and will rip most dullard politicians to threads.
    Maybe he didn't fancy signing up to crew the Titanic?
    Nick Ferrari currently gets 1.5 million listeners a week on LBC. Why on Earth would he move to a TV station that can only dream of those figures?
    He's only on for two hours in the morning. I'm sure he could manage something in his spare time.
    Its not that uncommon. Sky Sports presenter Jim White has been on Sky Sports News and Talk Sport for ages.

    Ferrari himself was a regular on Sky News every week, with that round table debate show thing they did (that was crap).

    Kristy Gallagher is on GB News in the morning and Smooth Radio in the afternoon.

    Colin Murray at one point used to do R5, Talk Sport, Ch5, Dave, ITV4, basically any tv or radio station who would have him...I am not sure he ever slept.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    JonWC said:

    Probably someone has already posted this but I can't see it. There seems be a Labour leaflet in Batley and Spen dwelling heavily on the subject of Palestine. I presume this means Galloway is cleaning up that section of the vote and Labour are, if not almost toast, very actually toast.

    I wonder who is paying Galloway's election expenses?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169
    TimS said:

    Have the Lib Dems got anything to say about lockdown?

    If they'd been campaigning against lockdown, instead of in favour of NIMBYism, then I'd want them to win C&A on Thursday, but it just seems complete silence from them instead.

    Left of centre, the support for lockdowns etc seems very hard. Until you get to the handfuls of Piers Corbyn types.

    Lots of zero COVID stuff....

    I reckon that if Starmer went anti-lockdown, that might kick off open warfare against him.
    I'm not sure how we ended up in this situation but I don't think that reflects how public opinion and political leanings work outside Westminster. I am in a pretty lefty/liberal part of London and the general feeling is definitely becoming more anti-lockdown. But until recently most people in the UK seemed very cautious on Covid, across the spectrum.

    It's become party political, unfortunately, because the Tories appeared cavalier in the early days of the first and second waves. So the obvious opposition position was to be more pro-Lockdown. Now the government is becoming ever more cautious I would hope opposition sees the benefit in taking a position more aligned with civil liberties.

    The big difference this time is that all the more vulnerable who want it will have been double vaxxed at or very shortly after June 20th. Nothing stopping people under 50 waiting a bit till they head fully out if they wish so (We probably wouldn't go to a nightclub or gig before my other half is double vaxxed); but it shouldn't be dictated by state fiat at this point.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    JonWC said:

    Probably someone has already posted this but I can't see it. There seems be a Labour leaflet in Batley and Spen dwelling heavily on the subject of Palestine. I presume this means Galloway is cleaning up that section of the vote and Labour are, if not almost toast, very actually toast.

    Yes - see below

    Allegedly Galloway taking some of their vote
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Cyclefree said:

    https://twitter.com/garethicke/status/1404333887908716548?s=21

    The double whammy I feared.

    Sunak is not just a homunculus who worked at one of the dodgiest of dodgy hedge funds when RBS went belly up (and what I can tell you about the real story behind that would make everyone's ears burn) but a f***ing stupid irresponsible destructive bastard.

    Grr .....🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

    Don't you remember the story from the first lockdown? That there was going to be absolutely no financial support. Cabinet source.... 1 hour before Sunak stood up...

    Hell, I would only be half surprised if they announced the 21st is 100% on.

    The interesting thing is how the journalists are really disconnected from the inside, these days. Probably a Brexit thing. But it is interesting how they are plain "not plugged in" - certainly not the way they were under Brown, for example.
    The Mail's story looked like it was deliberately briefed by Sunak.

    He does not want to be Johnson's scapegoat if Britain's finances go to the wall.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2021
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Jonathan said:

    Still not sure what freedoms Freedom day offers beyond the ‘freedom’ to resume a long commute, to take off a mask I’m not remotely bothered about wearing or to be crammed closer to some dudes sweaty pits.

    I think it's right to say that a minority of people commute on trains to work, (or did before the pandemic). This sounds like a very London and south-east centric view of life. Most people drive to work and it takes less than 30 or 45 minutes IIRC.
    Interesting fact about commute times (apologies if this is well known): commute times have remained static for well over 100 years, at an average of about 40 minutes. When new infrastructure or technologies allow us to reduce our commute times, we respond by getting jobs further away. There is a slightly higher average in the south east but this can be explained solely by a concentration of higher-paying jobs (which makes it worth people's while to stretch beyond the 40-odd minutes).
    This is v interesting and explains why one of the key things you need to do to encourage economic growth is metro mass transit systems.

    Thereby, employers are able to access a larger pool of skilled labour (and in turn, employees are able to access a larger concentration of jobs).

    It’s something we’ve been astonishingly poor at this in this country because we have tended to rely on failed market solutions, and we also grudge subsidising commuters (since such systems seldom pay for themselves). Sadly in doing so we cut off out nose to save our face.

    Leeds is the largest city in Europe without a mass transit system.
    Agree entirely. There are a few subtleties though - metro mass transit systems don't necessarily have to run on rails. What they do need to do is be rapid, with predictable journey times (more predictable than driving, anyway). This therefore means they have to either be separated from general traffic or have some effective way of getting priority over it.

    Leeds does, if I recall, have some stretches of busway which do this to some extent - I don't know how effectively.

    We also have to consider where we want to serve with our mass transit - the working class communities with low car ownership or the middle class communities where the skilled labour is (and the greatest market for mass transit). Not an easy decision.
    Mass transit systems don't sound like a good idea at the moment, especially with people who think the pre-covid world was rubbish.
    'At the moment' being the operative phrase.

    My expectation is that demand for urban rapid transit in cities outside London will be higher in 2025 than it was in 2015.
    Trips per job will decrease (my central estimate is by about 20% - bear in mind that roughly 50% of city centre jobs cannot be done from home) but absolute numbers of city centre jobs will increase*; also non-work trips will increase. (This pattern is very good news for public transport, whose central problem is peakiness in demand, meaning crushes at peak times and an unprofitable carrying of empty air at other times).
    Cars - even connected autonomous vehicles - simply can't carry people in high enough volumes to meet demand in cities.

    Declaration of interest: my job basically depends on there being a future for public transport. There is a risk therefore that the above is informed by wishful thinking! But I have worked through the scenarios and my 'central' scenarios sees growth.

    *I have specified 'outside London' because I am less confident making this claim for London than I am for Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds etc.


    I think that, outside London, you may well be right.

    Real levelling up, as it were. Essentially the other major cities in the UK will grow relative to London. Part of that will require a massive catchup in public transport to get to a fraction of what London has.

    The interesting one in all this, is the possibility of total automation of tunnelling, which leads to some rather interesting effects. Combined with future generations of power and signalling delivery, there is the possibility of some major reductions in cost.
    Alternatively have a road network that works.

    Milton Keynes is a strange town with its roundabouts but it works, has fast moving roads and has a strong economy as a result.

    Rather than cramming more and more people into city high rises and trying to get them moving about in mass transit boxes, getting more new towns like Milton Keynes with roads that work would deal well with both the economy and housing.
    Yes - the young urban dynamos who are building the economy of tomorrow are clamouring to move to Milton Keynes.

    Actually, despite my sarcasm, I have some sympathy with your point - MK manages to provide a quarter of a million people with a home town which seems to lack most of the problems that are traditionally associated with urban living. (Most of all, it provides somewhere in Buckinghamshire where people can afford to live and raise a family.) But that's the point - it isn't urban living. It's a massive sprawl of suburbia. There's only so many people that that appeals to. And moreover, it could only be done because there was a blank canvas. You can't realistically turn existing cities into Milton Keynes, even if you wanted to.

    I know your views on this Philip and I can only say I disagree. And that's fine, we can both have our own tastes in urbanism. But I'm not sure people in general are keen to buy your vision.

    On a related note, do you have any views on Poundbury as an example of urbanism (small scale urbanism perhaps, but urbanism nonetheless)?

    Trying to get everyone clamouring to move to one place is part of the problem! Getting everyone to descend upon the same place is a disaster that has led to a critical housing crisis. The head office of a company I used to work for is in MK so I used to travel there a couple of times a year and I didn't notice any absence of dynamism or difficulties in moving around there.

    A blank canvas is available in a lot of the nation, if we got to grips with it. We don't need to make the entire country like a city, but it would be quite rational in my opinion to eg build a motorway connecting Oxford, MK, Bedford and Cambridge - and possibly build a couple of new towns along that route.

    A couple of new towns could be put between Oxford and MK and one between Bedford and Cambridge, without needing to make anywhere high density, while leaving the AONB in the Chilterns etc entirely untouched.
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 288

    JonWC said:

    Probably someone has already posted this but I can't see it. There seems be a Labour leaflet in Batley and Spen dwelling heavily on the subject of Palestine. I presume this means Galloway is cleaning up that section of the vote and Labour are, if not almost toast, very actually toast.

    I wonder who is paying Galloway's election expenses?
    Jezza and Boris (read secret Tory donor) 50 50 split?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,043

    Crikey! At long last!

    Looks to be superb quality juice.

    Can they actually produce enough of it though?
    https://text.npr.org/1006094476
    ...In addition to efficacy, the PREVENT-19 (the PRE-fusion protein subunit Vaccine Efficacy Novavax Trial COVID-19) trial showed the Novavax vaccine was safe for users. Like other COVID-19 vaccines, it caused headaches, chills and muscle aches after injection, but few of these side effects were considered serious or severe.

    The study involved 29,960 volunteers in the United States and Mexico. In the study, two thirds of the volunteers received two shots of the vaccine, and one third received two shots of a placebo.

    A total of 77 cases of COVID-19 occurred during the study: 63 in the placebo group and 14 in the vaccine group. According to the Novavax statement describing the results, none of the cases of COVID-19 in the vaccine group were related to the original strain of the virus, hence the 100 percent efficacy against the original strain.

    The breakthrough cases were all caused by the newer, more worrisome variants, and all of the breakthroughs in the vaccine group were mild. By contrast, 10 in the placebo group were considered moderate, and four severe. Novavax's statement did not specify which variants in particular were prevented.

    The company says it intends to file for authorization from regulators in the U.S., Europe and the United Kingdom later this summer. Novavax says it will be able to deliver 100 million doses per month by the end of September, and 150 million doses per month by the end of the year.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Double-checking the map, a motorway between Oxford and Cambridge would probably make sense to continue SW down to Swindon and connecting to the M4.

    Connect then the M4, M1, M40, A1(M) and M11.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207
    Cyclefree said:

    https://twitter.com/garethicke/status/1404333887908716548?s=21

    The double whammy I feared.

    Sunak is not just a homunculus who worked at one of the dodgiest of dodgy hedge funds when RBS went belly up (and what I can tell you about the real story behind that would make everyone's ears burn) but a f***ing stupid irresponsible destructive bastard.

    Grr .....🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

    And it's the second time in a month he's done something like this following the schools catchup thing. (Assuming that Furlough isn't extended along with the restrictions- there has to be a climbdown on this, surely? Because the not supporting businesses though this just isn't on.)

    And whilst it's the Treasury's job to keep an eye on the ole dosheroony, how long can BoJo put up with a CoE continually cramping his spending, like one of Bertie Wooster's meaner aunts?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    maaarsh said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The papers seem remarkably light on the details of Johnson's delay. Meanwhile there are some very, very unhappy tory backbenchers out there and Starmer is not saying he will support the government.

    Is Johnson locked in a room somewhere shaking like a leaf?

    I'd be surprised if Starmer opposed Boris on not opening up further. You never know though.
    The obvious line is the one Nick Symonds-Thomas has been essaying.

    We're forced to continue restrictions now because the government ignored our warnings then.

    It will need to be super snappy to make it stick, though.
    On the other hand, Starmer demanding the continuation of furlough and then voting against the government when that was denied would be a neat way out of a cul de sac.

    I don't imagine Labour's young voters will be particularly enthused by Emily Thornberry telling them they can never travel again.
    Absolutely. I was thinking exactly this. They should demand massive compensation for the arts/clubbing/music sectors – and when denied oppose the extension. "We cannot back this act which will mean disaster for millions of workers".

    Would be very smart indeed.

    So they probably won't do it.
    LOL indeed !!!!

    Also, Sunak has clearly obtained the end of furlough as a condition of support for Johnson. So he will never countenance spending that money.

    Labour might be able to get Johnson's head on a stick here if they wanted it.

    Do they?
    Opportunity knocks. Suddenly Starmer has all the power. If Labour don’t back it, this thing ends at 2359hrs on 30 June.
    LOTOs don't often get an opportunity to make the weather. This is that opportunity. Will he seize it ? Is he a strong leader ?
    Feels like you answered your own question at the end there.
    Captain Clairvoyant too busy distancing himself from the B&S result
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    JonWC said:

    Probably someone has already posted this but I can't see it. There seems be a Labour leaflet in Batley and Spen dwelling heavily on the subject of Palestine. I presume this means Galloway is cleaning up that section of the vote and Labour are, if not almost toast, very actually toast.

    I wonder who is paying Galloway's election expenses?
    Who funded and advised the "independent" candidates in Hartlepool?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cyclefree said:

    https://twitter.com/garethicke/status/1404333887908716548?s=21

    The double whammy I feared.

    Sunak is not just a homunculus who worked at one of the dodgiest of dodgy hedge funds when RBS went belly up (and what I can tell you about the real story behind that would make everyone's ears burn) but a f***ing stupid irresponsible destructive bastard.

    Grr .....🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

    Take with a pinch of salt, remember there was talk of there not being any support prior to the furlough scheme being announced in the first place.

    But do you mind if I ask a question? Is your daughter's premise even using the furlough scheme anymore? Given its reopen, trading, has table service and has the kitchen reopen (presumably) what use does the furlough scheme provide to her?

    I would have guessed the issue is the lack of customers, caused by social distancing, not furlough.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Cyclefree said:

    https://twitter.com/garethicke/status/1404333887908716548?s=21

    The double whammy I feared.

    Sunak is not just a homunculus who worked at one of the dodgiest of dodgy hedge funds when RBS went belly up (and what I can tell you about the real story behind that would make everyone's ears burn) but a f***ing stupid irresponsible destructive bastard.

    Grr .....🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

    And it's the second time in a month he's done something like this following the schools catchup thing. (Assuming that Furlough isn't extended along with the restrictions- there has to be a climbdown on this, surely? Because the not supporting businesses though this just isn't on.)

    And whilst it's the Treasury's job to keep an eye on the ole dosheroony, how long can BoJo put up with a CoE continually cramping his spending, like one of Bertie Wooster's meaner aunts?
    The 400bn the UK is spending on COVID is not coming out of petty cash.

    The gargantuan debt mountain and money printing spree are a huge and reckless gamble with the economic future of this country. A gamble worthy of Jeremy Corbyn.

    As is now becoming apparent.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541

    https://order-order.com/2021/06/14/starmer-distances-himself-from-batley-spen-by-election-as-labour-fears-big-loss/

    To back up Andy Js point.

    Starmer desperately needs a win. Johnson's head would be such, surely.

    If he goes with the government this just goes on.

    I'm starting to think the Tories will lose Chesham and win Batley. Is there a market available for that combination?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    How exciting to think that Starmer has an open goal here that would likely propel him in to the lead in the polls and cause such chaos in the Tory Party that it could conceivably result in a change of leader.

    Just as supporting England at football though, it’s the hope that kills you. I expect to say something which in his head sounds brave and then vote with the government.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Andy_JS said:

    https://order-order.com/2021/06/14/starmer-distances-himself-from-batley-spen-by-election-as-labour-fears-big-loss/

    To back up Andy Js point.

    Starmer desperately needs a win. Johnson's head would be such, surely.

    If he goes with the government this just goes on.

    I'm starting to think the Tories will lose Chesham and win Batley. Is there a market available for that combination?
    I dunno, but I am happier betting on the tories in Batley than I am in Chesham.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,043

    Dura_Ace said:

    Floater said:

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1404292017589473281

    US officials are assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant but don't yet think the facility is at crisis level, US sources say


    The Chinese of course said nothing

    I'm not panicking until we get LeadricT's sober and informed analysis of this event.
    Surely a wall of flint objects would create a fair radiation shield?
    French nuclear firm seeks to resolve 'performance issue' at China plant
    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210614-french-nuclear-firm-seeks-to-resolve-performance-issue-at-china-plant
    A French nuclear firm said Monday it was working to resolve a "performance issue" at a plant it part-owns in China's southern Guangdong province following a US media report of a potential leak there.

    CNN reported earlier that the US government is assessing a report of a leak at the Taishan Nuclear Power Plant after the French company, Framatome, warned of an "imminent radiological threat".

    Framatome said in a statement to AFP that it is "supporting resolution of a performance issue" at the plant.

    "According to the data available, the plant is operating within the safety parameters," the company said.

    "Our team is working with relevant experts to assess the situation and propose solutions to address any potential issue."

    Citing a letter from Framatome to the US energy department, CNN said the warning included an accusation that the Chinese safety authority was raising the acceptable limits for radiation outside the facility in order to avoid having to shut it down.
    ...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169
    Andy_JS said:

    https://order-order.com/2021/06/14/starmer-distances-himself-from-batley-spen-by-election-as-labour-fears-big-loss/

    To back up Andy Js point.

    Starmer desperately needs a win. Johnson's head would be such, surely.

    If he goes with the government this just goes on.

    I'm starting to think the Tories will lose Chesham and win Batley. Is there a market available for that combination?
    Chesham is first so a straight bet on the Lib Dems works I think ?

    You can always put the stake + winnings on Batley after.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Floater said:

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1404292017589473281

    US officials are assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant but don't yet think the facility is at crisis level, US sources say


    The Chinese of course said nothing

    I'm not panicking until we get LeadricT's sober and informed analysis of this event.
    Surely a wall of flint objects would create a fair radiation shield?
    French nuclear firm seeks to resolve 'performance issue' at China plant
    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210614-french-nuclear-firm-seeks-to-resolve-performance-issue-at-china-plant
    A French nuclear firm said Monday it was working to resolve a "performance issue" at a plant it part-owns in China's southern Guangdong province following a US media report of a potential leak there.

    CNN reported earlier that the US government is assessing a report of a leak at the Taishan Nuclear Power Plant after the French company, Framatome, warned of an "imminent radiological threat".

    Framatome said in a statement to AFP that it is "supporting resolution of a performance issue" at the plant.

    "According to the data available, the plant is operating within the safety parameters," the company said.

    "Our team is working with relevant experts to assess the situation and propose solutions to address any potential issue."

    Citing a letter from Framatome to the US energy department, CNN said the warning included an accusation that the Chinese safety authority was raising the acceptable limits for radiation outside the facility in order to avoid having to shut it down.
    ...
    Is that like Jurassic Park had performance issues?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://order-order.com/2021/06/14/starmer-distances-himself-from-batley-spen-by-election-as-labour-fears-big-loss/

    To back up Andy Js point.

    Starmer desperately needs a win. Johnson's head would be such, surely.

    If he goes with the government this just goes on.

    I'm starting to think the Tories will lose Chesham and win Batley. Is there a market available for that combination?
    Chesham is first so a straight bet on the Lib Dems works I think ?

    You can always put the stake + winnings on Batley after.
    Indeed you'd probably get better odds on Batley if you place the bet after a Tory loss in C&A ironically.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963
    Freedom protest happing outside number 10 downing Street

    https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1404398510494162948?s=20
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    moonshine said:

    How exciting to think that Starmer has an open goal here that would likely propel him in to the lead in the polls and cause such chaos in the Tory Party that it could conceivably result in a change of leader.

    Just as supporting England at football though, it’s the hope that kills you. I expect to say something which in his head sounds brave and then vote with the government.

    How clever of May to post herself as a ready made safe pair of hands if Johnson can't get his program through.....!!

    Awesome politics from the lass, there.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,043

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Floater said:

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1404292017589473281

    US officials are assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant but don't yet think the facility is at crisis level, US sources say


    The Chinese of course said nothing

    I'm not panicking until we get LeadricT's sober and informed analysis of this event.
    Surely a wall of flint objects would create a fair radiation shield?
    French nuclear firm seeks to resolve 'performance issue' at China plant
    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210614-french-nuclear-firm-seeks-to-resolve-performance-issue-at-china-plant
    A French nuclear firm said Monday it was working to resolve a "performance issue" at a plant it part-owns in China's southern Guangdong province following a US media report of a potential leak there.

    CNN reported earlier that the US government is assessing a report of a leak at the Taishan Nuclear Power Plant after the French company, Framatome, warned of an "imminent radiological threat".

    Framatome said in a statement to AFP that it is "supporting resolution of a performance issue" at the plant.

    "According to the data available, the plant is operating within the safety parameters," the company said.

    "Our team is working with relevant experts to assess the situation and propose solutions to address any potential issue."

    Citing a letter from Framatome to the US energy department, CNN said the warning included an accusation that the Chinese safety authority was raising the acceptable limits for radiation outside the facility in order to avoid having to shut it down.
    ...
    Is that like Jurassic Park had performance issues?
    We'll see.
    Whom do you trust more, the Chinese or the French ... ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    moonshine said:

    How exciting to think that Starmer has an open goal here that would likely propel him in to the lead in the polls and cause such chaos in the Tory Party that it could conceivably result in a change of leader.

    Just as supporting England at football though, it’s the hope that kills you. I expect to say something which in his head sounds brave and then vote with the government.

    How clever of May to post herself as a ready made safe pair of hands if Johnson can't get his program through.....!!

    Awesome politics from the lass, there.
    May also has her deal in the cupboard to remove the Irish Sea border if needed
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1404292017589473281

    US officials are assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant but don't yet think the facility is at crisis level, US sources say


    The Chinese of course said nothing

    Probably something happened in the wet market, where they sell fissile materials like that all the time. Nothing to see here.
    Well, at least it can't involve the China Syndrome...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963
    edited June 2021
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Floater said:

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1404292017589473281

    US officials are assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant but don't yet think the facility is at crisis level, US sources say


    The Chinese of course said nothing

    I'm not panicking until we get LeadricT's sober and informed analysis of this event.
    Surely a wall of flint objects would create a fair radiation shield?
    French nuclear firm seeks to resolve 'performance issue' at China plant
    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210614-french-nuclear-firm-seeks-to-resolve-performance-issue-at-china-plant
    A French nuclear firm said Monday it was working to resolve a "performance issue" at a plant it part-owns in China's southern Guangdong province following a US media report of a potential leak there.

    CNN reported earlier that the US government is assessing a report of a leak at the Taishan Nuclear Power Plant after the French company, Framatome, warned of an "imminent radiological threat".

    Framatome said in a statement to AFP that it is "supporting resolution of a performance issue" at the plant.

    "According to the data available, the plant is operating within the safety parameters," the company said.

    "Our team is working with relevant experts to assess the situation and propose solutions to address any potential issue."

    Citing a letter from Framatome to the US energy department, CNN said the warning included an accusation that the Chinese safety authority was raising the acceptable limits for radiation outside the facility in order to avoid having to shut it down.
    ...
    Is that like Jurassic Park had performance issues?
    We'll see.
    Whom do you trust more, the Chinese or the French ... ?
    Neither ;-)

    That nuclear power plant is one of those new fangled reactor ones isn't it, that we are having at Hinckley Point? A EPR nuclear reactor.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Andy_JS said:

    https://order-order.com/2021/06/14/starmer-distances-himself-from-batley-spen-by-election-as-labour-fears-big-loss/

    To back up Andy Js point.

    Starmer desperately needs a win. Johnson's head would be such, surely.

    If he goes with the government this just goes on.

    I'm starting to think the Tories will lose Chesham and win Batley. Is there a market available for that combination?
    If the Tories lose Chesham they will need to have lost at least 10 to 20% of their 2019 vote to Reform UK after this afternoon's announcement.

    Batley I think will be a narrow Labour hold, mainly due to Labour picking Jo Cox's sister who is also local
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,043
    Fortunately no one in it, but this will give me nightmares.
    https://twitter.com/tedgioia/status/1404313944001503233
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,032
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Floater said:

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1404292017589473281

    US officials are assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant but don't yet think the facility is at crisis level, US sources say


    The Chinese of course said nothing

    I'm not panicking until we get LeadricT's sober and informed analysis of this event.
    Surely a wall of flint objects would create a fair radiation shield?
    French nuclear firm seeks to resolve 'performance issue' at China plant
    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210614-french-nuclear-firm-seeks-to-resolve-performance-issue-at-china-plant
    A French nuclear firm said Monday it was working to resolve a "performance issue" at a plant it part-owns in China's southern Guangdong province following a US media report of a potential leak there.

    CNN reported earlier that the US government is assessing a report of a leak at the Taishan Nuclear Power Plant after the French company, Framatome, warned of an "imminent radiological threat".

    Framatome said in a statement to AFP that it is "supporting resolution of a performance issue" at the plant.

    "According to the data available, the plant is operating within the safety parameters," the company said.

    "Our team is working with relevant experts to assess the situation and propose solutions to address any potential issue."

    Citing a letter from Framatome to the US energy department, CNN said the warning included an accusation that the Chinese safety authority was raising the acceptable limits for radiation outside the facility in order to avoid having to shut it down.
    ...
    Is that like Jurassic Park had performance issues?
    We'll see.
    Whom do you trust more, the Chinese or the French ... ?
    "As Shakespeare said, "it is better using France than trusting France... in ourselves our safety lies"
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,032

    Cyclefree said:

    https://twitter.com/garethicke/status/1404333887908716548?s=21

    The double whammy I feared.

    Sunak is not just a homunculus who worked at one of the dodgiest of dodgy hedge funds when RBS went belly up (and what I can tell you about the real story behind that would make everyone's ears burn) but a f***ing stupid irresponsible destructive bastard.

    Grr .....🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬


    It is a ploy to to put pressure on Johnson Ms Cyclefree.

    This cannot go on much longer without furlough. Johnson is going to be in all sorts of bother when the money stops flowing

    Its cynical in the extreme but that is not necessarily bad for Sunak.
    Yes starting to wean this country off its welfare is about the first thing he's done in a year that I agree with.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    edited June 2021

    Double-checking the map, a motorway between Oxford and Cambridge would probably make sense to continue SW down to Swindon and connecting to the M4.

    Connect then the M4, M1, M40, A1(M) and M11.

    The Government didn't want it there.

    They wanted to link it to the A34 for the run down the (often-jammed) dual carriageway to Southampton/Portsmouth area and past Cambridge to the existing A14 to Felixstowe and Harwich.

    With no significant upgrade for the A34.

    The real driver for it is to provide an alternative route for heavy freight between the ports.
    Estimated increase in traffic of 1.3 million HGV movements per year up the A34. Unsurprisingly, this is not popular amongst those who actually use the A34 and the villages alongside (which already frequently have the entire traffic of the A34 go through them when the A34 goes down - it has uncomfortably frequent HGV accidents)

    (Full disclosure: I'm a local councillor down there and originally liked the idea of this as it hit my "more infrastructure" button. But then the more I went into the details, the more my heart sank.

    No upgrades to local roads. The only upgrade the the A34 being "smart motorway technology" (Note: the A34 has no hard shoulder, so what the hell?).
    Add extra 100,000 houses along the route with no further infrastructure envisaged (seriously? We need housing, but how to make it unpopular or what?!? You don't build houses alongside a motorway; you need local roads for that! Seriously - it's like someone came along and said "How can we turn this into a really stupid idea?")
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited June 2021
    Starmer criticises the PM for holding a BBQ for G7 leaders comprising 40 people without masks at the weekend while announcing he is keeping Covid restrictions as they are for the UK population today, including the 30 people restriction for outdoor meetings
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1404396632423206913?s=20
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://order-order.com/2021/06/14/starmer-distances-himself-from-batley-spen-by-election-as-labour-fears-big-loss/

    To back up Andy Js point.

    Starmer desperately needs a win. Johnson's head would be such, surely.

    If he goes with the government this just goes on.

    I'm starting to think the Tories will lose Chesham and win Batley. Is there a market available for that combination?
    Chesham is first so a straight bet on the Lib Dems works I think ?

    You can always put the stake + winnings on Batley after.
    Indeed you'd probably get better odds on Batley if you place the bet after a Tory loss in C&A ironically.
    Yes the Tories losing in C&A will push the Batley price out. The outcomes aren't independent, they're negatively dependant.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963
    edited June 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Starmer criticises the PM for holding a BBQ for G7 leaders without masks at the weekend while announcing he is keeping Covid restrictions a they are for the UK population today
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1404396632423206913?s=20

    He really doesn't have much to say about anything substantial does he...moaning about Boris not supporting taking the knee, now BBQs.....

    There are over 6 million vaccine doses sitting in a warehouse, while our vaccine roll out has stalled.....The JCVI said position on AZN for younger people was based on risk factors before the Indian variant and even then they said if only that it didn't delay the roll out.

    Our only way out of this is vaccinations...we need to be jabbing morning, noon and night, and all Starmer is moaning about is a load of people who are all vaccinated / tested having a sodding BBQ. 100s have just been gathering outside up and down the country for the footy....why isn't he moaning about that?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Mr. HYUFD, what Starmer says is irrelevant. Whether he votes for or against the continuation of lockdown, assuming there is a vote, is what counts.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited June 2021

    Mr. HYUFD, what Starmer says is irrelevant. Whether he votes for or against the continuation of lockdown, assuming there is a vote, is what counts.

    I doubt there will be any Tory movement to Labour after this evening's announcement of a delay to Freedom Day, there might be some to ReformUK however
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer criticises the PM for holding a BBQ for G7 leaders without masks at the weekend while announcing he is keeping Covid restrictions a they are for the UK population today
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1404396632423206913?s=20

    He really doesn't have much to say about anything substantial does he...moaning about Boris not supporting taking the knee, now BBQs.....

    There are over 6 million vaccine doses sitting in a warehouse, while our vaccine roll out has stalled.....The JCVI said position on AZN for younger people was based on risk factors before the Indian variant and even then they said if only that it didn't delay the roll out.
    We don't even need the AZN for younger people. We could accelerate the seconds to 8 weeks with it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963
    edited June 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer criticises the PM for holding a BBQ for G7 leaders without masks at the weekend while announcing he is keeping Covid restrictions a they are for the UK population today
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1404396632423206913?s=20

    He really doesn't have much to say about anything substantial does he...moaning about Boris not supporting taking the knee, now BBQs.....

    There are over 6 million vaccine doses sitting in a warehouse, while our vaccine roll out has stalled.....The JCVI said position on AZN for younger people was based on risk factors before the Indian variant and even then they said if only that it didn't delay the roll out.
    We don't even need the AZN for younger people. We could accelerate the seconds to 8 weeks with it.
    There are a number of options. The point is this is a genuine issue that a sensible opposition should be at least raising. Can we see if the government has done any updated modelling on this....this makes a huge different to everybody....

    No bloody Gordon Brittas is prattling on about taking the knee, trans self identification and BBQs. On vaccines, all they have banged on about is why aren't we vaxxing 12 year olds or we should do teachers out of order to the rest of the population....FFS...first not all the studies have been completed, the modelling showed their teacher idea was bollocks and get all the adults done, that is the priority.

    No wonder Labour are 10-15% behind.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited June 2021

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Floater said:

    https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1404292017589473281

    US officials are assessing a report of a leak at a Chinese nuclear power plant but don't yet think the facility is at crisis level, US sources say


    The Chinese of course said nothing

    I'm not panicking until we get LeadricT's sober and informed analysis of this event.
    Surely a wall of flint objects would create a fair radiation shield?
    French nuclear firm seeks to resolve 'performance issue' at China plant
    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210614-french-nuclear-firm-seeks-to-resolve-performance-issue-at-china-plant
    A French nuclear firm said Monday it was working to resolve a "performance issue" at a plant it part-owns in China's southern Guangdong province following a US media report of a potential leak there.

    CNN reported earlier that the US government is assessing a report of a leak at the Taishan Nuclear Power Plant after the French company, Framatome, warned of an "imminent radiological threat".

    Framatome said in a statement to AFP that it is "supporting resolution of a performance issue" at the plant.

    "According to the data available, the plant is operating within the safety parameters," the company said.

    "Our team is working with relevant experts to assess the situation and propose solutions to address any potential issue."

    Citing a letter from Framatome to the US energy department, CNN said the warning included an accusation that the Chinese safety authority was raising the acceptable limits for radiation outside the facility in order to avoid having to shut it down.
    ...
    Is that like Jurassic Park had performance issues?
    We'll see.
    Whom do you trust more, the Chinese or the French ... ?
    Neither ;-)

    That nuclear power plant is one of those new fangled reactor ones isn't it, that we are having at Hinckley Point? A EPR nuclear reactor.
    Yes. I think it was the first one.

    I do hope this isn't going to be covered up.

    Buy more shares in wind (and probably gas) turbines. A delay to Hinckley might cause some difficulty.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Cyclefree said:

    https://twitter.com/garethicke/status/1404333887908716548?s=21

    The double whammy I feared.

    Sunak is not just...

    Grr .....🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

    A really seriously stupid post, as any halfway competent lawyer will tell you.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2021

    Double-checking the map, a motorway between Oxford and Cambridge would probably make sense to continue SW down to Swindon and connecting to the M4.

    Connect then the M4, M1, M40, A1(M) and M11.

    The Government didn't want it there.

    They wanted to link it to the A34 for the run down the (often-jammed) dual carriageway to Southampton/Portsmouth area and past Cambridge to the existing A14 to Felixstowe and Harwich.

    With no significant upgrade for the A34.

    The real driver for it is to provide an alternative route for heavy freight between the ports.
    Estimated increase in traffic of 1.3 million HGV movements per year up the A34. Unsurprisingly, this is not popular amongst those who actually use the A34 and the villages alongside (which already frequently have the entire traffic of the A34 go through them when the A34 goes down - it has uncomfortably frequent HGV accidents)

    (Full disclosure: I'm a local councillor down there and originally liked the idea of this as it hit my "more infrastructure" button. But then the more I went into the details, the more my heart sank.

    No upgrades to local roads. The only upgrade the the A34 being "smart motorway technology" (Note: the A34 has no hard shoulder, so what the hell?).
    Add extra 100,000 houses along the route with no further infrastructure envisaged (seriously? We need housing, but how to make it unpopular or what?!? You don't build houses alongside a motorway; you need local roads for that! Seriously - it's like someone came along and said "How can we turn this into a really stupid idea?")
    Any proposed motorway linking Oxford and Cambridge would surely intersect A34 and A14 too, it would make perfect sense to have Junctions there. Plus surely the A6, A1 and others too.

    Absolutely extra local roads would be required. A motorway should facilitate investment in local roads off its junctions as well as taking traffic off the existing A roads.

    Fundamentally motorways should serve the purpose of removing vehicles from the A roads allowing the A roads to be used for locals instead, not increasing the vehicles on the A roads.

    A motorway parallel to the A34 (is there an M34) would make more sense than increasing traffic on the A34 - but I was trying to avoid cutting through AONBs with my path.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer criticises the PM for holding a BBQ for G7 leaders without masks at the weekend while announcing he is keeping Covid restrictions a they are for the UK population today
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1404396632423206913?s=20

    He really doesn't have much to say about anything substantial does he...moaning about Boris not supporting taking the knee, now BBQs.....

    There are over 6 million vaccine doses sitting in a warehouse, while our vaccine roll out has stalled.....The JCVI said position on AZN for younger people was based on risk factors before the Indian variant and even then they said if only that it didn't delay the roll out.
    We don't even need the AZN for younger people. We could accelerate the seconds to 8 weeks with it.
    There are a number of options. The point is this is a genuine issue that a sensible opposition should be at least raising. Can we see if the government has done any updated modelling on this....this makes a huge different to everybody....

    No bloody Gordon Brittas is prattling on about taking the knee, trans self identification and BBQs. On vaccines, all they have banged on about is why aren't we vaxxing 12 year olds or we should do teachers out of order to the rest of the population....FFS...first not all the studies have been completed, the modelling showed their teacher idea was bollocks and get all the adults done, that is the priority.
    AZ can be accelerated to 56 days and Pfizer to 21. We're sitting on a mass AZ stocks and AZ is DONE in terms of first doses at a population level. We're averaging 79 days between vax, it's bonkers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963
    edited June 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer criticises the PM for holding a BBQ for G7 leaders without masks at the weekend while announcing he is keeping Covid restrictions a they are for the UK population today
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1404396632423206913?s=20

    He really doesn't have much to say about anything substantial does he...moaning about Boris not supporting taking the knee, now BBQs.....

    There are over 6 million vaccine doses sitting in a warehouse, while our vaccine roll out has stalled.....The JCVI said position on AZN for younger people was based on risk factors before the Indian variant and even then they said if only that it didn't delay the roll out.
    We don't even need the AZN for younger people. We could accelerate the seconds to 8 weeks with it.
    There are a number of options. The point is this is a genuine issue that a sensible opposition should be at least raising. Can we see if the government has done any updated modelling on this....this makes a huge different to everybody....

    No bloody Gordon Brittas is prattling on about taking the knee, trans self identification and BBQs. On vaccines, all they have banged on about is why aren't we vaxxing 12 year olds or we should do teachers out of order to the rest of the population....FFS...first not all the studies have been completed, the modelling showed their teacher idea was bollocks and get all the adults done, that is the priority.
    AZ can be accelerated to 56 days and Pfizer to 21. We're sitting on a mass AZ stocks and AZ is DONE in terms of first doses at a population level. We're averaging 79 days between vax, it's bonkers.
    No but you see the most important issue is if a load of vaccinated and tested people have a BBQ...

    Where's that cartoon of the open goal with the ball on the line and Boris the goalie way out the goal....Starmer is ronnie rosenthal...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhviGuX09i0
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, what Starmer says is irrelevant. Whether he votes for or against the continuation of lockdown, assuming there is a vote, is what counts.

    I doubt there will be any Tory movement to Labour after this evening's announcement of a delay to Freedom Day, there might be some to ReformUK however
    HYUFD You are quite bullish on Reform (especially considering they dismal May results)...do you know something we don't?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,211

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. HYUFD, what Starmer says is irrelevant. Whether he votes for or against the continuation of lockdown, assuming there is a vote, is what counts.

    I doubt there will be any Tory movement to Labour after this evening's announcement of a delay to Freedom Day, there might be some to ReformUK however
    HYUFD You are quite bullish on Reform (especially considering they dismal May results)...do you know something we don't?
    I suspect HYUFD is concerned that votes leaching to Reform helps Labour.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    Double-checking the map, a motorway between Oxford and Cambridge would probably make sense to continue SW down to Swindon and connecting to the M4.

    Connect then the M4, M1, M40, A1(M) and M11.

    The Government didn't want it there.

    They wanted to link it to the A34 for the run down the (often-jammed) dual carriageway to Southampton/Portsmouth area and past Cambridge to the existing A14 to Felixstowe and Harwich.

    With no significant upgrade for the A34.

    The real driver for it is to provide an alternative route for heavy freight between the ports.
    Estimated increase in traffic of 1.3 million HGV movements per year up the A34. Unsurprisingly, this is not popular amongst those who actually use the A34 and the villages alongside (which already frequently have the entire traffic of the A34 go through them when the A34 goes down - it has uncomfortably frequent HGV accidents)

    (Full disclosure: I'm a local councillor down there and originally liked the idea of this as it hit my "more infrastructure" button. But then the more I went into the details, the more my heart sank.

    No upgrades to local roads. The only upgrade the the A34 being "smart motorway technology" (Note: the A34 has no hard shoulder, so what the hell?).
    Add extra 100,000 houses along the route with no further infrastructure envisaged (seriously? We need housing, but how to make it unpopular or what?!? You don't build houses alongside a motorway; you need local roads for that! Seriously - it's like someone came along and said "How can we turn this into a really stupid idea?")
    Any proposed motorway linking Oxford and Cambridge would surely intersect A34 and A14 too, it would make perfect sense to have Junctions there. Plus surely the A6, A1 and others too.

    Absolutely extra local roads would be required. A motorway should facilitate investment in local roads off its junctions as well as taking traffic off the existing A roads.

    Fundamentally motorways should serve the purpose of removing vehicles from the A roads allowing the A roads to be used for locals instead, not increasing the vehicles on the A roads.

    A motorway parallel to the A34 (is there an M34) would make more sense than increasing traffic on the A34 - but I was trying to avoid cutting through AONBs with my path.
    Oh, it would. All of that is very sensible and would have prevented me going over to the "no" side on this. (It's been canned, anyway). All it was going to do was to reinforce the belief that development = making things worse. That's the last thing we bloody need here.

    We've managed to get local opinion on side for house building in my village (the Neighbourhood Plan proposed MORE houses than had been requested); the key thing was emphasising the new facilities and infrastructure and getting people involved in that.

    Removing vehicles from the A-roads: a damn fine idea and the key selling point - if they'd bothered to actually think it through.
    It's enormously frustrating as a pro-development councillor - whenever we manage to get opinion moving towards us, something like this happens and you end up thinking "Oh, seriously? Do they WANT to get everyones' backs up, or something?"
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