Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
There's a lot of footballers other than Rashford who do fine deeds, both here and abroad, who just don't have as high a profile.
I don't have a strong view on this kneeling debate, but I also don't think enough attention is paid to the footballers' viewpoint. Why are they still doing it? I'd guess nearly half of British-born players in the PL are non-white, and then of course there's all the overseas players. Why aren't people asking for their views (other than Zaha)? I don't believe they are still doing it because of George Floyd, and nor do I believe they are still doing it because they are daft conformists. Wouldn't it be interesting to have the players' perspective? I'd start with Chelsea...
Racist social media abuse is a big motivation for them to carry on doing it I reckon
All professional footballers should come off social media for a month. Let it be known it is because of the failure of the various companies to address racist social media. And if on their return they still have to face it, they will go off again for three months... Do facebook et al really want the custom of the knuckle-draggers over elite sportsmen? I guess we'd soon know.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
Feel free to point out where I've ever said that "the knee" is an "answer" to anything?
Then exactly what purpose does it serve?
It doesn't serve any purpose.
That in itself is not a reason to "hate" it.
Dislike it perhaps — I don't really "like" it myself!
I dislike it because it's divisive and counter-productive. In fact it's verging on hate because the knee has completely drowned out everything else and politicians pro and anti have been able to simply ignore everything else ducking the tough questions.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
There's a lot of footballers other than Rashford who do fine deeds, both here and abroad, who just don't have as high a profile.
I don't have a strong view on this kneeling debate, but I also don't think enough attention is paid to the footballers' viewpoint. Why are they still doing it? I'd guess nearly half of British-born players in the PL are non-white, and then of course there's all the overseas players. Why aren't people asking for their views (other than Zaha)? I don't believe they are still doing it because of George Floyd, or because they are cultural marxists, and nor do I believe they are still doing it because they are daft conformists. Wouldn't it be interesting to have the players' perspective? I'd start with Chelsea...
I'd imagine most are doing it for the same reason people are still wearing masks in shops, because it's a social convention right now.
I don't think people would continue to wear masks in shops if lots of people started booing them for doing so.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
Feel free to point out where I've ever said that "the knee" is an "answer" to anything?
Then exactly what purpose does it serve?
It doesn't serve any purpose.
That in itself is not a reason to "hate" it.
Dislike it perhaps — I don't really "like" it myself!
I dislike it because it's divisive and counter-productive. In fact it's verging on hate because the knee has completely drowned out everything else and politicians pro and anti have been able to simply ignore everything else ducking the tough questions.
With respect I think you're projecting your frustrations.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
That depends on your definition of law. There were restrictive zoning codes and neighborhood covenants in many northern US cities which had the same effect as South Africa's hated Pass Laws. And other forms of official discrimination like new freeways which always, mysteriously, seemed to be driven through poor black areas while leaving nearby white ones untouched.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson has backed comments made by the Culture Secretary that the England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB) went "over the top" in suspending bowler Ollie Robinson for historical racist and sexist tweets.
Although it isn't really, it his spokesperson.
I disagree with the suspension, and think it is ok for politicians to wade in, but also think the ECB now have to hold firm so as not to give in to pressure.
Betting post. No Green in Batley and Spen must make Labour odds more attractive? Particularly as Mr Peltier would be a reasonably well-known character in those parts. He's a bit of an RL cult hero in a part of the world where that carries some kudos amongst the WWC (And others). And he hasn't played for Leeds. Think Labour hold possibility just strengthened.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
There's a lot of footballers other than Rashford who do fine deeds, both here and abroad, who just don't have as high a profile.
I don't have a strong view on this kneeling debate, but I also don't think enough attention is paid to the footballers' viewpoint. Why are they still doing it? I'd guess nearly half of British-born players in the PL are non-white, and then of course there's all the overseas players. Why aren't people asking for their views (other than Zaha)? I don't believe they are still doing it because of George Floyd, and nor do I believe they are still doing it because they are daft conformists. Wouldn't it be interesting to have the players' perspective? I'd start with Chelsea...
Racist social media abuse is a big motivation for them to carry on doing it I reckon
All professional footballers should come off social media for a month. Let it be known it is because of the failure of the various companies to address racist social media. And if on their return they still have to face it, they will go off again for three months... Do facebook et al really want the custom of the knuckle-draggers over elite sportsmen? I guess we'd soon know.
Interesting one. Who holds all of the cards in that relationship?
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
I've detested much of the last year as this poison has found its way into my workplace and industry; I've noticed that people are now been judged by what "group" they are rather than "who" they are.
I hate it. I want it gone.
Maybe what is happening is that you are noticing for the first time that people get judged by what group they are in, and it makes you uncomfortable. Good, you should feel uncomfortable. We should all feel uncomfortable with the kind of systematic barriers that some groups in our society face. It needs to change. People are sick of waiting politely for it to change.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
There's a lot of footballers other than Rashford who do fine deeds, both here and abroad, who just don't have as high a profile.
I don't have a strong view on this kneeling debate, but I also don't think enough attention is paid to the footballers' viewpoint. Why are they still doing it? I'd guess nearly half of British-born players in the PL are non-white, and then of course there's all the overseas players. Why aren't people asking for their views (other than Zaha)? I don't believe they are still doing it because of George Floyd, and nor do I believe they are still doing it because they are daft conformists. Wouldn't it be interesting to have the players' perspective? I'd start with Chelsea...
Racist social media abuse is a big motivation for them to carry on doing it I reckon
Yes, players like Sterling and many others get a lot of that. So what should they do about it? How can they make their displeasure known, and change things? I'm not saying taking the knee is the answer (I don't think it is), but what is? Wouldn't that be a more fruitful debate?
Yes I think it would. Of course it’s their right to do it, but why would a famous player need to go on social media? They all get abuse from morons , black, white or other. Developing their brand I guess but it seems not worth the agg. Not looking at social media would be my answer but you could say that letting the racists win
Southgate got 4000 letters slagging him off after his pen miss in 96 - it’s been going on for decades to players of all colours.
Betting post. No Green in Batley and Spen must make Labour odds more attractive? Particularly as Mr Peltier would be a reasonably well-known character in those parts. He's a bit of an RL cult hero in a part of the world where that carries some kudos amongst the WWC (And others). And he hasn't played for Leeds. Think Labour hold possibility just strengthened.
Seven months before taking over the EU’s rotating Council presidency, the French government is mulling plans to revive the declining use and visibility of la langue de Molière.
The French government is earmarking money to offer more French classes to EU civil servants. Officials are contemplating hosting French-language debates featuring the country’s crème de la crème.
And then there are the meetings.
During the country’s presidency, French diplomats said all key meetings of the Council of the EU will be conducted in French (with translations available). Notes and minutes will be French-first. Even preparatory meetings will be conducted in French.
There’s a hidden hypocrisy in France’s forlorn and doomed attempt to regain linguistic supremacy. They say they are fighting English ‘for the sake of all the other languages’, ‘to preserve multilingualism, the linguistic diversity of the world’, yada yada. But when other countries with other languages say, in response, ‘great, can we have more official languages in the EU, not just English French and German’, or ‘how about having several working languages in the ECJ, not just French’, the French respond with horror. ‘No, French is a truly great language’, it’s unique status must be preserved’.
This has actually happened. eg Italy made these points, and then expressed deep irritation at the French
Macron went around Africa telling them that if they had more belief, French could become the global language.
It’s been said that in the next few decades there will only be two languages spoken in the world - English and Chinese. I think Spanish deserves an honourable mention though, and Russian will be not far behind it.
It is possible there may still be hundreds of languages and you will not need to learn a different one because there will be auto-translate apps that are so good you just need to think of what you need to say and your phone will say it in Mandarin or Swahili or whatever, and you will hear it back in your own language, like the Babel fish in Hitchhiker's Guide...It is already happening
I've never been quite sure, is 'Babel' pronounced to rhyme with 'label', or is it rhyming with 'babble' as a nod to the crap everyone speaks much of the time (me very much included)? I suppose the latter very much fits the tone of Adams' writing, but in my head I always pronounce it rhyming with label.
The chappy that read it on the audio version I listened to pronounced it as in rhyming with label, but then I had just swallowed one and he was actually speaking in Mongolian, or perhaps Zog, I can't recall.
In the original Radio version it rhymes with label. I always assumed it was a reference to the Tower of Babel biblical myth.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
Feel free to point out where I've ever said that "the knee" is an "answer" to anything?
Then exactly what purpose does it serve?
Symbols, including gestures, can matter a lot.
This one seems to be quite tokenistic though, not sure how meaningful people really find it, or will find it, in time.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
I’m sure the fact that there wasn’t a law on the books was a real comfort to the people on the receiving end of that nice northern racism that deliberately trapped them in segregated inner cities with massively reduced government investment in education and infrastructure compared with “white” areas.
Wikipedia defines Apartheid as “A system of institutionalised racial segregation“. The US north didn’t need laws to enact such a system, just institutions run by racists.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
There's a lot of footballers other than Rashford who do fine deeds, both here and abroad, who just don't have as high a profile.
I don't have a strong view on this kneeling debate, but I also don't think enough attention is paid to the footballers' viewpoint. Why are they still doing it? I'd guess nearly half of British-born players in the PL are non-white, and then of course there's all the overseas players. Why aren't people asking for their views (other than Zaha)? I don't believe they are still doing it because of George Floyd, and nor do I believe they are still doing it because they are daft conformists. Wouldn't it be interesting to have the players' perspective? I'd start with Chelsea...
Racist social media abuse is a big motivation for them to carry on doing it I reckon
Yes, players like Sterling and many others get a lot of that. So what should they do about it? How can they make their displeasure known, and change things? I'm not saying taking the knee is the answer (I don't think it is), but what is? Wouldn't that be a more fruitful debate?
Yes I think it would. Of course it’s their right to do it, but why would a famous player need to go on social media? They all get abuse from morons , black, white or other. Developing their brand I guess but it seems not worth the agg. Not looking at social media would be my answer but you could say that letting the racists win
Southgate got 4000 letters slagging him off after his pen miss in 96 - it’s been going on for decades to players of all colours.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
That’s an invite for abuse on here if ever I saw one!
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
Hundreds of books - worth £200? Seems very low. What are they? All by SK Tremayne?
12,383 Delta variant identified: 464 - presented at Emergency Care 126 - hospitalised, of these: - 83 - unvaccinated - 28 - 1 dose - 3 - 2 doses
If we don't open up knowing that then we're down a rabbit hole from which we'll never escape.
Agreed. The "just few more weeks" brigade are deluding themselves if they think iSage and the lockdownistas will just say, "oh okay, deal" and roll over while we reopen up fully in July. They will then find another reason to lockdown further – a variant from eastern Antarctica, perhaps, or a new strain from northwest Zanzibar.
Unlocking cannot become like a mirage in the desert, forever a fortnight away.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
That’s an invite for abuse on here if ever I saw one!
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
Hundreds of books - worth £200? Seems very low. What are they? All by SK Tremayne?
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
The Oxfam in Bloomsbury used to be where I took surplus books that I'd already read.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
Feel free to point out where I've ever said that "the knee" is an "answer" to anything?
Then exactly what purpose does it serve?
It doesn't serve any purpose.
That in itself is not a reason to "hate" it.
Dislike it perhaps — I don't really "like" it myself!
I dislike it because it's divisive and counter-productive. In fact it's verging on hate because the knee has completely drowned out everything else and politicians pro and anti have been able to simply ignore everything else ducking the tough questions.
With respect I think you're projecting your frustrations.
What of it? I'm extremely frustrated that an opportunity to have a proper discussion about racial inequality in this country has been replaced by a meaningless and empty gesture that the politicians can simply ignore. It's a huge wasted chance for black, Asian and other people in this country to get the bastards in charge to notice that the fight for racial equality hasn't been won.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
Feel free to point out where I've ever said that "the knee" is an "answer" to anything?
Then exactly what purpose does it serve?
It doesn't serve any purpose.
That in itself is not a reason to "hate" it.
Dislike it perhaps — I don't really "like" it myself!
I dislike it because it's divisive and counter-productive. In fact it's verging on hate because the knee has completely drowned out everything else and politicians pro and anti have been able to simply ignore everything else ducking the tough questions.
With respect I think you're projecting your frustrations.
I love it.
Some of the wealthiest young people on the planet and their nearly all "Marxists" who know how to boil the piss of PBs most prominent Gammons.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
Hundreds of books - worth £200? Seems very low. What are they? All by SK Tremayne?
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
That depends on your definition of law. There were restrictive zoning codes and neighborhood covenants in many northern US cities which had the same effect as South Africa's hated Pass Laws. And other forms of official discrimination like new freeways which always, mysteriously, seemed to be driven through poor black areas while leaving nearby white ones untouched.
Blacks were also frequently turned away from hotels in the UK too at that time, eg the Trinidadian cricketer Learie Constatantine was turned away from the Imperial Hotel, Russell Square as late as 1943, plus of course the frequent 'no blacks, no Irish' signs in boarding houses, largely whites only suburbs and the revelation that even in the 1960s there were no black clerical staff working for the royal household.
However again it was largely informal segregation rather than state sanctioned segregation prescribed by state law as in the southern US and South Africa
12,383 Delta variant identified: 464 - presented at Emergency Care 126 - hospitalised, of these: - 83 - unvaccinated - 28 - 1 dose - 3 - 2 doses
If we don't open up knowing that then we're down a rabbit hole from which we'll never escape.
Agreed. The "just few more weeks" brigade are deluding themselves if they think iSage and the lockdownistas will just say, "oh okay, deal" and roll over while we reopen up fully in July. They will then find another reason to lockdown further – a variant from eastern Antarctica, perhaps, or a new strain from northwest Zanzibar.
Unlocking cannot become like a mirage in the desert, forever a fortnight away.
I am now convinced that we'll reopen. That sort of granular detail will fuel a narrative that zero covid idiots cannot argue against.
Betting post. No Green in Batley and Spen must make Labour odds more attractive? Particularly as Mr Peltier would be a reasonably well-known character in those parts. He's a bit of an RL cult hero in a part of the world where that carries some kudos amongst the WWC (And others). And he hasn't played for Leeds. Think Labour hold possibility just strengthened.
True, but at the same time the Heaven Woollen District party isn't standing, which will probably help the Tories since their candidate used to be the UKIP candidate at a previous election.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
There's a lot of footballers other than Rashford who do fine deeds, both here and abroad, who just don't have as high a profile.
I don't have a strong view on this kneeling debate, but I also don't think enough attention is paid to the footballers' viewpoint. Why are they still doing it? I'd guess nearly half of British-born players in the PL are non-white, and then of course there's all the overseas players. Why aren't people asking for their views (other than Zaha)? I don't believe they are still doing it because of George Floyd, or because they are cultural marxists, and nor do I believe they are still doing it because they are daft conformists. Wouldn't it be interesting to have the players' perspective? I'd start with Chelsea...
I'd imagine most are doing it for the same reason people are still wearing masks in shops, because it's a social convention right now.
AIUI it's the law that you have to wear as mask in shops (unless you have a health exemption).
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
I have a similar issue, as I need to clear space for better, more worthy books. All charity shops sell second hand books, but doubt they want dozens dumped on their doorsteps.
Betting post. No Green in Batley and Spen must make Labour odds more attractive? Particularly as Mr Peltier would be a reasonably well-known character in those parts. He's a bit of an RL cult hero in a part of the world where that carries some kudos amongst the WWC (And others). And he hasn't played for Leeds. Think Labour hold possibility just strengthened.
Have Nominations closed?
Deadline was 4 PM today. I am assuming they haven't replaced him in time. And. They really couldn't have got anyone as well known. So. Labour boost imho.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
Yes of course, the lines between "Black Lives Matter" and "Black lives matter" are not blurry at all. How could anyone not understand Black lives matter and Black lives Matter, sorry, Black Lives MAtter, no, wait, black Lives MATTER, hold on, black lives Matter, err, anyway these two indistinguishable things are completely different, almost in parallel universes, frankly.
All versions appear to be BOILING your pics. or is that boiling your PISS!
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
The Oxfam in Bloomsbury used to be where I took surplus books that I'd already read.
Difficult one. That I am quite firm on. Oxfam puts many second hand bookshops out of business all for "charidee". Not saying it's wrong but that particular Oxfam bookshop has a "fine and rare" books section and would give most bookshops a run for their money.
It's a bugbear of mine for no apparent reason.
Much better to give them to Bookmarks over the road to help the socialists - they always have some second hand books outside the shop.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do
W
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
…
Pretty overwhelming polling, isn't it?
I'm just racking my brains now to think of societies that 'increased racial tensions' where there was a happy ending..
Apartheid, in Peter Oborne's book on the D'Oliveria affair he said polling at the time showed that Conservative voters wanted the tour to go ahead and D'Oliveria dropped.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
Oxfam books used to collect round here. My ageing punk mate does it in his campervan. If they aren't a bit woke for you.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I think that his "opponents" do have a point as we are witnessing on here. People think that taking the knee is divisive and woke and supporting a marxist agenda and they don't like it as apart from anything else it distracts from Op. Trident-type activities.
All well and good.
But consider that instead of all that it is simply further emphasis on not putting up with racism. I have no idea what the BLM manifesto is and I doubt you do either. It is entirely possible that the "politics" gets lost or fritters away and you are left with footballers, who play in an environment of total multiculturalism (in the UK at least) on field, and let's say a questionable environment of racism/non-racism off field on what were the terraces. And those footballers, white, black and the rest, are making a strong statement about their views on racism.
I don't think that is worthy of getting quite so het up about. I'm all for it. If it affects clubs' revenue then fine. If someone is going to kick off (in a pub, or at a ground) about it, then I am tempted to say bring it.
That's why I think an alternative anti-racist gesture, such as standing & linking arms against discrimination on the pitch, and more action by social media firms against racist abuse online is necessary.
Target the racism, and do it effectively. Don't stoke the culture wars.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
The Oxfam in Bloomsbury used to be where I took surplus books that I'd already read.
Difficult one. That I am quite firm on. Oxfam puts many second hand bookshops out of business all for "charidee". Not saying it's wrong but that particular Oxfam bookshop has a "fine and rare" books section and would give most bookshops a run for their money.
It's a bugbear of mine for no apparent reason.
Much better to give them to Bookmarks over the road to help the socialists - they always have some second hand books outside the shop.
Agreed, also Oxfam has got severe governance issues around sexual abuse by workers. I wouldn't want to give them anything on that basis alone but it's a personal choice for @Leon. Though they might not accept 400 copies of The Ice Twins.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
I have a similar issue, as I need to clear space for better, more worthy books. All charity shops sell second hand books, but doubt they want dozens dumped on their doorsteps.
Oh do tell what some of the worse, less worthy books are.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
Hundreds of books - worth £200? Seems very low. What are they? All by SK Tremayne?
If they were all signed by the author, I would have thought the value would increase too
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
Hundreds of books - worth £200? Seems very low. What are they? All by SK Tremayne?
If they were all signed by the author, I would have thought the value would increase too
First prize in the grand draw is a signed copy of...
Second prize in the grand draw is two signed copies of...
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I think that his "opponents" do have a point as we are witnessing on here. People think that taking the knee is divisive and woke and supporting a marxist agenda and they don't like it as apart from anything else it distracts from Op. Trident-type activities.
All well and good.
But consider that instead of all that it is simply further emphasis on not putting up with racism. I have no idea what the BLM manifesto is and I doubt you do either. It is entirely possible that the "politics" gets lost or fritters away and you are left with footballers, who play in an environment of total multiculturalism (in the UK at least) on field, and let's say a questionable environment of racism/non-racism off field on what were the terraces. And those footballers, white, black and the rest, are making a strong statement about their views on racism.
I don't think that is worthy of getting quite so het up about. I'm all for it. If it affects clubs' revenue then fine. If someone is going to kick off (in a pub, or at a ground) about it, then I am tempted to say bring it.
That's why I think an alternative anti-racist gesture, such as standing & linking arms against discrimination on the pitch, and more action by social media firms against racist abuse online is necessary.
Target the racism, and do it effectively. Don't stoke the culture wars.
That would also be a meaningless gesture.
There is literally no difference between the meaningless gesture of kneeling and the meaningless gesture of linking arms.
It's just one "side" has irrationally decided it doesn't like kneeling.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
I've detested much of the last year as this poison has found its way into my workplace and industry; I've noticed that people are now been judged by what "group" they are rather than "who" they are.
I hate it. I want it gone.
Maybe what is happening is that you are noticing for the first time that people get judged by what group they are in, and it makes you uncomfortable. Good, you should feel uncomfortable. We should all feel uncomfortable with the kind of systematic barriers that some groups in our society face. It needs to change. People are sick of waiting politely for it to change.
If you think the answer to subtle discrimination is actual discrimination the other way, blessed with a warped sociological theory as justification, then we really are going down a dark path in our society.
No doubt you will blame others for the very serious strife that will result as you egg it on.
My understanding was that case rates notifications are likely to increase around 2 weeks after the lifting of restrictions, whilst hospital rates were around 3-4 weeks?
If so, the case rates increases appear to link with the 17 May lifting - will we see an increase in hospital rates over the current week?
How does the Delta variant change this understanding?
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
It's the footballers (of all flavours) taking demonstrative action to show their dislike for racism. How can that upset so many people? Oh and if anyone is upset I would like them to recite, without googling, the first five articles of the BLM manifesto.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
I have a similar issue, as I need to clear space for better, more worthy books. All charity shops sell second hand books, but doubt they want dozens dumped on their doorsteps.
Oh do tell what some of the worse, less worthy books are.
Probably controversially, Wolf Hall features among the list.
But in fact a lot of them are just hardbacks which have since been replaced so a sequence matches (and takes up less space)
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do
W
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
…
Pretty overwhelming polling, isn't it?
I'm just racking my brains now to think of societies that 'increased racial tensions' where there was a happy ending..
Apartheid, in Peter Oborne's book on the D'Oliveria affair he said polling at the time showed that Conservative voters wanted the tour to go ahead and D'Oliveria dropped.
The 1970 stop the tour campaign as well.
This polling shows majorities of Labour voters and ethnic minority voters agreeing it has increased tensions over disagreed, and I wouldn't hold up post-Apartheid South Africa as a model of sweetness and light either.
I think it could have been with more leaders like Mandela, but sadly we didn't get that.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
That depends on your definition of law. There were restrictive zoning codes and neighborhood covenants in many northern US cities which had the same effect as South Africa's hated Pass Laws. And other forms of official discrimination like new freeways which always, mysteriously, seemed to be driven through poor black areas while leaving nearby white ones untouched.
Blacks were also frequently turned away from hotels in the UK too at that time, eg the Trinidadian cricketer Learie Constatantine was turned away from the Imperial Hotel, Russell Square as late as 1943, plus of course the frequent 'no blacks, no Irish' signs in boarding houses, largely whites only suburbs and the revelation that even in the 1960s there were no black clerical staff working for the royal household.
However again it was largely informal segregation rather than state sanctioned segregation prescribed by state law as in the southern US and South Africa
Also worth looking at the accounts of the way in which the British public welcomed the black servicemen in spite of the anger of the racist element of the US army.
At Bamber Bridge in Lancashire when the local US commanders insisted on racial segregation in the village, all three local pubs posted 'Black Troops Only' signs.
Betting post. No Green in Batley and Spen must make Labour odds more attractive? Particularly as Mr Peltier would be a reasonably well-known character in those parts. He's a bit of an RL cult hero in a part of the world where that carries some kudos amongst the WWC (And others). And he hasn't played for Leeds. Think Labour hold possibility just strengthened.
True, but at the same time the Heaven Woollen District party isn't standing, which will probably help the Tories since their candidate used to be the UKIP candidate at a previous election.
Well indeed. But this will at least partially offset that.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
The comparison Gallowgate made was between the SA of 1970 and the America of today.
That isn't what I did at all. My point was that it doesn't matter if something is foreign politics — it can still be something British people care about from a moral perspective.
Well maybe but since we agree the two are light years apart, don't you think that, for a cause that's nowhere near as important as Apartheid, that by now the footie players have made their point...??
That's what's getting most fans isn't it? you made your point mate, you knelt for a year, now can we get on with the footie?
A lot if football fans don’t stay quiet for minutes silences, and boo national anthems too - this us just the same old thing with an ism projected onto it
What would your reaction be if "woke" football fans started booing the National Anthem at England games? Would you be more determined than ever to keep playing it?
I bet the answer is yes.
I’ve only ever been to one match where the National Anthem was played. If anyone had booed no one would have heard them above the singing, so it would have been a fairly pointless gesture.
That was at Twickenham though, so I don’t know how loud it gets at a football match. Also if it were an international with roughly equal numbers I can see that one side booing the anthem of the other would probably be more effective.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
It is. Absolutely it promotes division as it's a "if you don't do this you're a racist" kind of thing. If you don't like the knee you're a racist. If you don't wear a poppy you're a traitor. It's all part of the same bullshit divisiveness.
My understanding was that case rates notifications are likely to increase around 2 weeks after the lifting of restrictions, whilst hospital rates were around 3-4 weeks?
If so, the case rates increases appear to link with the 17 May lifting - will we see an increase in hospital rates over the current week?
How does the Delta variant change this understanding?
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
I have a similar issue, as I need to clear space for better, more worthy books. All charity shops sell second hand books, but doubt they want dozens dumped on their doorsteps.
Oh do tell what some of the worse, less worthy books are.
Probably controversially, Wolf Hall features among the list.
But in fact a lot of them are just hardbacks which have since been replaced so a sequence matches (and takes up less space)
Oooooh. I find it very difficult to throw away books. I would never throw away Wolf Hall!! Or the other two. I loved them.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
That depends on your definition of law. There were restrictive zoning codes and neighborhood covenants in many northern US cities which had the same effect as South Africa's hated Pass Laws. And other forms of official discrimination like new freeways which always, mysteriously, seemed to be driven through poor black areas while leaving nearby white ones untouched.
Blacks were also frequently turned away from hotels in the UK too at that time, eg the Trinidadian cricketer Learie Constatantine was turned away from the Imperial Hotel, Russell Square as late as 1943, plus of course the frequent 'no blacks, no Irish' signs in boarding houses, largely whites only suburbs and the revelation that even in the 1960s there were no black clerical staff working for the royal household.
However again it was largely informal segregation rather than state sanctioned segregation prescribed by state law as in the southern US and South Africa
But, Learie Constantine was able to get legal redress, on the basis that the Imperial Hotel could not refuse him service without "just cause" under common law. That's the big distinction with South Africa, or Dixie.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
It is. Absolutely it promotes division as it's a "if you don't do this you're a racist" kind of thing. If you don't like the knee you're a racist. If you don't wear a poppy you're a traitor. It's all part of the same bullshit divisiveness.
Yes that is a good point.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist. Which is bollocks.
But can we not look at taking the knee on the football pitch and just judge it to be an anti-racism message? No one has to "do" anything. They just see a bunch of blokes displaying the fact that they don't like racism, in an environment (the footie) that has historically been riven with racism. And other isms for that matter.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do
W
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
…
Pretty overwhelming polling, isn't it?
I'm just racking my brains now to think of societies that 'increased racial tensions' where there was a happy ending..
Apartheid, in Peter Oborne's book on the D'Oliveria affair he said polling at the time showed that Conservative voters wanted the tour to go ahead and D'Oliveria dropped.
The 1970 stop the tour campaign as well.
Yebbut even ethnic minorities say it’s made things worse. Every category has a majority saying so
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I think that his "opponents" do have a point as we are witnessing on here. People think that taking the knee is divisive and woke and supporting a marxist agenda and they don't like it as apart from anything else it distracts from Op. Trident-type activities.
All well and good.
But consider that instead of all that it is simply further emphasis on not putting up with racism. I have no idea what the BLM manifesto is and I doubt you do either. It is entirely possible that the "politics" gets lost or fritters away and you are left with footballers, who play in an environment of total multiculturalism (in the UK at least) on field, and let's say a questionable environment of racism/non-racism off field on what were the terraces. And those footballers, white, black and the rest, are making a strong statement about their views on racism.
I don't think that is worthy of getting quite so het up about. I'm all for it. If it affects clubs' revenue then fine. If someone is going to kick off (in a pub, or at a ground) about it, then I am tempted to say bring it.
That's why I think an alternative anti-racist gesture, such as standing & linking arms against discrimination on the pitch, and more action by social media firms against racist abuse online is necessary.
Target the racism, and do it effectively. Don't stoke the culture wars.
That would also be a meaningless gesture.
There is literally no difference between the meaningless gesture of kneeling and the meaningless gesture of linking arms.
It's just one "side" has irrationally decided it doesn't like kneeling.
No it isn't. We're going round in circles here because you can't accept you're wrong, even though you know you're wrong and have tacitly acknowledged it upthread. You've just fallen back on pedantry and whataboutism instead and this debate has thus become circular and tedious.
Feel free to come back when your logical brain has had a reckoning with your emotional brain.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
That depends on your definition of law. There were restrictive zoning codes and neighborhood covenants in many northern US cities which had the same effect as South Africa's hated Pass Laws. And other forms of official discrimination like new freeways which always, mysteriously, seemed to be driven through poor black areas while leaving nearby white ones untouched.
Blacks were also frequently turned away from hotels in the UK too at that time, eg the Trinidadian cricketer Learie Constatantine was turned away from the Imperial Hotel, Russell Square as late as 1943, plus of course the frequent 'no blacks, no Irish' signs in boarding houses, largely whites only suburbs and the revelation that even in the 1960s there were no black clerical staff working for the royal household.
However again it was largely informal segregation rather than state sanctioned segregation prescribed by state law as in the southern US and South Africa
But, Learie Constantine was able to get legal redress, on the basis that the Imperial Hotel could not refuse him service without "just cause" under common law. That's the big distinction with South Africa, or Dixie.
True but the comparison with the UK at the time was Massachussetts, not South Africa or Dixie
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s net approval rating is positive for the eighteenth week in a row––this time at +9%, a two-point increase from last week. This week’s poll finds 43% approving of his overall job performance (no change) against 34% disapproving (down 2%).
Keir Starmer’s net approval rating stands at -8%, a two-point increase from last week. 34% disapprove of Keir Starmer’s job performance (down 3%), while 26% approve (down 1%). Meanwhile, 34% neither approve nor disapprove of Starmer’s job performance.
Lib Dems going hard on anti-development to try and win Chesham & Amersham by-elex. Quote just out: "Tory plans will allow developers to tarmac over greenbelt sites across the Chilterns without local people having any say, risking irreversible damage to the local environment."
It is true that Tory plans largely involve further emasculation of local planning power.
Supposedly. How are you supposed to rule by edict when idiot councillors in the enemy parties (Labour, LibDem, Conservative) keep doing stupid things? As with Thatcher before, better to emasculate local government by smashing it into pieces that no longer work so that people will blame the people left running the unworkable pieces.
This is exactly what has happened.
Osborne ripped money out of local government (which was already underpowered and underfunded) and now Blue Wall voters are blaming their Labour councils.
That’s part of the issue, anyway.
If that were really the issue, then since the Tories have thousands more Councillors than any other party they should be getting blamed and turfed out en mass in areas they control. Seeing as a result net losses of hundreds or thousands of Councillors.
Yet that's not happening is it? So much easier for you to blame the idiotic public for being duped, than to admit the Tories might actually be popular as they're going something right. Or that Labour and other opposition parties might be unpopular as they're doing something wrong.
Would it not in that case be simpler for the opposition to dissolve the people and elect another?
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
I have a similar issue, as I need to clear space for better, more worthy books. All charity shops sell second hand books, but doubt they want dozens dumped on their doorsteps.
Oh do tell what some of the worse, less worthy books are.
Probably controversially, Wolf Hall features among the list.
But in fact a lot of them are just hardbacks which have since been replaced so a sequence matches (and takes up less space)
Oooooh. I find it very difficult to throw away books. I would never throw away Wolf Hall!! Or the other two. I loved them.
I only do so out of necessities' sake, but that one didn't grab me. I'm a Shardlake man.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
Judging by today’s thread it seems to have produced division, even if it wasn’t deliberate.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
That depends on your definition of law. There were restrictive zoning codes and neighborhood covenants in many northern US cities which had the same effect as South Africa's hated Pass Laws. And other forms of official discrimination like new freeways which always, mysteriously, seemed to be driven through poor black areas while leaving nearby white ones untouched.
Blacks were also frequently turned away from hotels in the UK too at that time, eg the Trinidadian cricketer Learie Constatantine was turned away from the Imperial Hotel, Russell Square as late as 1943, plus of course the frequent 'no blacks, no Irish' signs in boarding houses, largely whites only suburbs and the revelation that even in the 1960s there were no black clerical staff working for the royal household.
However again it was largely informal segregation rather than state sanctioned segregation prescribed by state law as in the southern US and South Africa
Also worth looking at the accounts of the way in which the British public welcomed the black servicemen in spite of the anger of the racist element of the US army.
At Bamber Bridge in Lancashire when the local US commanders insisted on racial segregation in the village, all three local pubs posted 'Black Troops Only' signs.
Tbf that didn't end well. 1 dead, 7 injured and 32 convicted of mutiny. Really surprised this hasn't been made into a film.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
It is. Absolutely it promotes division as it's a "if you don't do this you're a racist" kind of thing. If you don't like the knee you're a racist. If you don't wear a poppy you're a traitor. It's all part of the same bullshit divisiveness.
Yes that is a good point.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist. Which is bollocks.
But can we not look at taking the knee on the football pitch and just judge it to be an anti-racism message? No one has to "do" anything. They just see a bunch of blokes displaying the fact that they don't like racism, in an environment (the footie) that has historically been riven with racism. And other isms for that matter.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist.
Point of logic, the obverse is that if you are racist then you are not woke.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
Hundreds of books - worth £200? Seems very low. What are they? All by SK Tremayne?
I'd never have any of that bollocks on my shelves. I do have all the excellent thrillers by Tom Knox, however.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
It is. Absolutely it promotes division as it's a "if you don't do this you're a racist" kind of thing. If you don't like the knee you're a racist. If you don't wear a poppy you're a traitor. It's all part of the same bullshit divisiveness.
Yes that is a good point.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist. Which is bollocks.
But can we not look at taking the knee on the football pitch and just judge it to be an anti-racism message? No one has to "do" anything. They just see a bunch of blokes displaying the fact that they don't like racism, in an environment (the footie) that has historically been riven with racism. And other isms for that matter.
I think if they picked a different empty gesture that wasn't so charged and related to the US it might be better. The problem with the knee, IMO, is that it feels accusatory of all of us as being racists like Americans or accuses British culture of accepting racial violence by the police as it is in some parts of the US. Ultimately I think that's the issue, people who aren't racist feel like they're being accused of being racist specifically by the knee gesture. Another one probably wouldn't do that.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
It is. Absolutely it promotes division as it's a "if you don't do this you're a racist" kind of thing. If you don't like the knee you're a racist. If you don't wear a poppy you're a traitor. It's all part of the same bullshit divisiveness.
Yes that is a good point.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist. Which is bollocks.
But can we not look at taking the knee on the football pitch and just judge it to be an anti-racism message? No one has to "do" anything. They just see a bunch of blokes displaying the fact that they don't like racism, in an environment (the footie) that has historically been riven with racism. And other isms for that matter.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist.
Point of logic, the obverse is that if you are racist then you are not woke.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
What about Blm? I thought you were all in favour of Blm, not BLM?
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
That depends on your definition of law. There were restrictive zoning codes and neighborhood covenants in many northern US cities which had the same effect as South Africa's hated Pass Laws. And other forms of official discrimination like new freeways which always, mysteriously, seemed to be driven through poor black areas while leaving nearby white ones untouched.
Blacks were also frequently turned away from hotels in the UK too at that time, eg the Trinidadian cricketer Learie Constatantine was turned away from the Imperial Hotel, Russell Square as late as 1943, plus of course the frequent 'no blacks, no Irish' signs in boarding houses, largely whites only suburbs and the revelation that even in the 1960s there were no black clerical staff working for the royal household.
However again it was largely informal segregation rather than state sanctioned segregation prescribed by state law as in the southern US and South Africa
Also worth looking at the accounts of the way in which the British public welcomed the black servicemen in spite of the anger of the racist element of the US army.
At Bamber Bridge in Lancashire when the local US commanders insisted on racial segregation in the village, all three local pubs posted 'Black Troops Only' signs.
There was a cafe in Liverpool Road, Luton, where a black serviceman requested a breakfast in 1944. So, the owner served him, and the following day, and for several weeks, he appeared each morning with a group of black fellow soldiers. It must have been an unusual experience, to be served by a white cafe owner who made them welcome. Then some jobsworth from the council turned up and said the US army had complained about this, and the cafe should only serve white personnel - whereupon the owner told them to take a hike.
I expect the owner was not taking a stand against racism, merely displaying common decency towards people who were risking their necks on behalf of all of us.
My understanding was that case rates notifications are likely to increase around 2 weeks after the lifting of restrictions, whilst hospital rates were around 3-4 weeks?
If so, the case rates increases appear to link with the 17 May lifting - will we see an increase in hospital rates over the current week?
How does the Delta variant change this understanding?
What is the delta of the Delta, you mean?
Good question.
Has the delta of Delta dealt a blow to the unlocking plans?
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
It is. Absolutely it promotes division as it's a "if you don't do this you're a racist" kind of thing. If you don't like the knee you're a racist. If you don't wear a poppy you're a traitor. It's all part of the same bullshit divisiveness.
Yes that is a good point.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist. Which is bollocks.
But can we not look at taking the knee on the football pitch and just judge it to be an anti-racism message? No one has to "do" anything. They just see a bunch of blokes displaying the fact that they don't like racism, in an environment (the footie) that has historically been riven with racism. And other isms for that matter.
I think if they picked a different empty gesture that wasn't so charged and related to the US it might be better. The problem with the knee, IMO, is that it feels accusatory of all of us as being racists like Americans or accuses British culture of accepting racial violence by the police as it is in some parts of the US. Ultimately I think that's the issue, people who aren't racist feel like they're being accused of being racist specifically by the knee gesture. Another one probably wouldn't do that.
Also found it a weird choice of gesture*, as it has a long history of subservience....i.e. kneel before the King or your master.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
That depends on your definition of law. There were restrictive zoning codes and neighborhood covenants in many northern US cities which had the same effect as South Africa's hated Pass Laws. And other forms of official discrimination like new freeways which always, mysteriously, seemed to be driven through poor black areas while leaving nearby white ones untouched.
Blacks were also frequently turned away from hotels in the UK too at that time, eg the Trinidadian cricketer Learie Constatantine was turned away from the Imperial Hotel, Russell Square as late as 1943, plus of course the frequent 'no blacks, no Irish' signs in boarding houses, largely whites only suburbs and the revelation that even in the 1960s there were no black clerical staff working for the royal household.
However again it was largely informal segregation rather than state sanctioned segregation prescribed by state law as in the southern US and South Africa
Also worth looking at the accounts of the way in which the British public welcomed the black servicemen in spite of the anger of the racist element of the US army.
At Bamber Bridge in Lancashire when the local US commanders insisted on racial segregation in the village, all three local pubs posted 'Black Troops Only' signs.
Tbf that didn't end well. 1 dead, 7 injured and 32 convicted of mutiny. Really surprised this hasn't been made into a film.
White British people in a role where they aren't oppressors? Good luck selling that to Hollywood.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
The Oxfam in Bloomsbury used to be where I took surplus books that I'd already read.
Difficult one. That I am quite firm on. Oxfam puts many second hand bookshops out of business all for "charidee". Not saying it's wrong but that particular Oxfam bookshop has a "fine and rare" books section and would give most bookshops a run for their money.
It's a bugbear of mine for no apparent reason.
Much better to give them to Bookmarks over the road to help the socialists - they always have some second hand books outside the shop.
Agreed, also Oxfam has got severe governance issues around sexual abuse by workers. I wouldn't want to give them anything on that basis alone but it's a personal choice for @Leon. Though they might not accept 400 copies of The Ice Twins.
I hadn't actually thought of this. Charity shops as a rival to 2nd hand bookshops. I am all in favour of second hand bookshops, I love them from the leathery scent to the tottering shelves. I'd far rather have a 2nd hand bookshop on my high street than ANOTHER charity shop
The answer, it seems, is to give them to a 2nd hand bookshop, but the nearest is probably Charing X Road.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
The Oxfam in Bloomsbury used to be where I took surplus books that I'd already read.
Difficult one. That I am quite firm on. Oxfam puts many second hand bookshops out of business all for "charidee". Not saying it's wrong but that particular Oxfam bookshop has a "fine and rare" books section and would give most bookshops a run for their money.
It's a bugbear of mine for no apparent reason.
Much better to give them to Bookmarks over the road to help the socialists - they always have some second hand books outside the shop.
Agreed, also Oxfam has got severe governance issues around sexual abuse by workers. I wouldn't want to give them anything on that basis alone but it's a personal choice for @Leon. Though they might not accept 400 copies of The Ice Twins.
I hadn't actually thought of this. Charity shops as a rival to 2nd hand bookshops. I am all in favour of second hand bookshops, I love them from the leathery scent to the tottering shelves. I'd far rather have a 2nd hand bookshop on my high street than ANOTHER charity shop
The answer, it seems, is to give them to a 2nd hand bookshop, but the nearest is probably Charing X Road.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
That depends on your definition of law. There were restrictive zoning codes and neighborhood covenants in many northern US cities which had the same effect as South Africa's hated Pass Laws. And other forms of official discrimination like new freeways which always, mysteriously, seemed to be driven through poor black areas while leaving nearby white ones untouched.
Blacks were also frequently turned away from hotels in the UK too at that time, eg the Trinidadian cricketer Learie Constatantine was turned away from the Imperial Hotel, Russell Square as late as 1943, plus of course the frequent 'no blacks, no Irish' signs in boarding houses, largely whites only suburbs and the revelation that even in the 1960s there were no black clerical staff working for the royal household.
However again it was largely informal segregation rather than state sanctioned segregation prescribed by state law as in the southern US and South Africa
Also worth looking at the accounts of the way in which the British public welcomed the black servicemen in spite of the anger of the racist element of the US army.
At Bamber Bridge in Lancashire when the local US commanders insisted on racial segregation in the village, all three local pubs posted 'Black Troops Only' signs.
Tbf that didn't end well. 1 dead, 7 injured and 32 convicted of mutiny. Really surprised this hasn't been made into a film.
White British people in a role where they aren't oppressors? Good luck selling that to Hollywood.
Let me tell you about a well known spy franchise...
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
That depends on your definition of law. There were restrictive zoning codes and neighborhood covenants in many northern US cities which had the same effect as South Africa's hated Pass Laws. And other forms of official discrimination like new freeways which always, mysteriously, seemed to be driven through poor black areas while leaving nearby white ones untouched.
Blacks were also frequently turned away from hotels in the UK too at that time, eg the Trinidadian cricketer Learie Constatantine was turned away from the Imperial Hotel, Russell Square as late as 1943, plus of course the frequent 'no blacks, no Irish' signs in boarding houses, largely whites only suburbs and the revelation that even in the 1960s there were no black clerical staff working for the royal household.
However again it was largely informal segregation rather than state sanctioned segregation prescribed by state law as in the southern US and South Africa
Also worth looking at the accounts of the way in which the British public welcomed the black servicemen in spite of the anger of the racist element of the US army.
At Bamber Bridge in Lancashire when the local US commanders insisted on racial segregation in the village, all three local pubs posted 'Black Troops Only' signs.
Tbf that didn't end well. 1 dead, 7 injured and 32 convicted of mutiny. Really surprised this hasn't been made into a film.
White British people in a role where they aren't oppressors? Good luck selling that to Hollywood.
Let me tell you about a well known spy franchise...
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
It is. Absolutely it promotes division as it's a "if you don't do this you're a racist" kind of thing. If you don't like the knee you're a racist. If you don't wear a poppy you're a traitor. It's all part of the same bullshit divisiveness.
Yes that is a good point.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist. Which is bollocks.
But can we not look at taking the knee on the football pitch and just judge it to be an anti-racism message? No one has to "do" anything. They just see a bunch of blokes displaying the fact that they don't like racism, in an environment (the footie) that has historically been riven with racism. And other isms for that matter.
I think if they picked a different empty gesture that wasn't so charged and related to the US it might be better. The problem with the knee, IMO, is that it feels accusatory of all of us as being racists like Americans or accuses British culture of accepting racial violence by the police as it is in some parts of the US. Ultimately I think that's the issue, people who aren't racist feel like they're being accused of being racist specifically by the knee gesture. Another one probably wouldn't do that.
Indeed. If you say that all white people are racist, then it’s not unexpected to find that the vast majority of white people, who aren’t racist, disagree with you.
Trying to import American views of race, with a long history of racial division well inside living memory, to other countries just doesn’t work. The USA need to sort out their own problems of violence and racism.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
it’s plain right to say it has achieved it
Yes it has. And it's a shame imo. It is entirely possible that British footballers saw the injustice of the Floyd killing, saw that in the US it was this organisation called "BLM" that seemed to be at the forefront of protest and thought "well we don't know who George Floyd is but we would like to protest against racism here also".
But they had "kick it out" which was a bit like Rock Against Racism, which was pretty mainstream and maybe even boring vs some of the other, er, tastier organisations around at the time which took more proactive action.
I don't think anyone here knows what the BLM manifesto actually is and it may well be that "BLM" is forgotten and all that is left is the anti-racist message.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
That depends on your definition of law. There were restrictive zoning codes and neighborhood covenants in many northern US cities which had the same effect as South Africa's hated Pass Laws. And other forms of official discrimination like new freeways which always, mysteriously, seemed to be driven through poor black areas while leaving nearby white ones untouched.
Blacks were also frequently turned away from hotels in the UK too at that time, eg the Trinidadian cricketer Learie Constatantine was turned away from the Imperial Hotel, Russell Square as late as 1943, plus of course the frequent 'no blacks, no Irish' signs in boarding houses, largely whites only suburbs and the revelation that even in the 1960s there were no black clerical staff working for the royal household.
However again it was largely informal segregation rather than state sanctioned segregation prescribed by state law as in the southern US and South Africa
Also worth looking at the accounts of the way in which the British public welcomed the black servicemen in spite of the anger of the racist element of the US army.
At Bamber Bridge in Lancashire when the local US commanders insisted on racial segregation in the village, all three local pubs posted 'Black Troops Only' signs.
Tbf that didn't end well. 1 dead, 7 injured and 32 convicted of mutiny. Really surprised this hasn't been made into a film.
White British people in a role where they aren't oppressors? Good luck selling that to Hollywood.
Let me tell you about a well known spy franchise...
Doesn't generally have Americans as the bad guys.
The film Amistad? Royal Navy appears as good guys vs slavers... Or is that the exception that makes the rule?
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
It is. Absolutely it promotes division as it's a "if you don't do this you're a racist" kind of thing. If you don't like the knee you're a racist. If you don't wear a poppy you're a traitor. It's all part of the same bullshit divisiveness.
Yes that is a good point.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist. Which is bollocks.
But can we not look at taking the knee on the football pitch and just judge it to be an anti-racism message? No one has to "do" anything. They just see a bunch of blokes displaying the fact that they don't like racism, in an environment (the footie) that has historically been riven with racism. And other isms for that matter.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist.
Point of logic, the obverse is that if you are racist then you are not woke.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
Feel free to point out where I've ever said that "the knee" is an "answer" to anything?
Then exactly what purpose does it serve?
It doesn't serve any purpose.
That in itself is not a reason to "hate" it.
Dislike it perhaps — I don't really "like" it myself!
I dislike it because it's divisive and counter-productive. In fact it's verging on hate because the knee has completely drowned out everything else and politicians pro and anti have been able to simply ignore everything else ducking the tough questions.
With respect I think you're projecting your frustrations.
What of it? I'm extremely frustrated that an opportunity to have a proper discussion about racial inequality in this country has been replaced by a meaningless and empty gesture that the politicians can simply ignore. It's a huge wasted chance for black, Asian and other people in this country to get the bastards in charge to notice that the fight for racial equality hasn't been won.
Do you truly think this government have a burning desire to prioritize the fight for racial equality but are being hampered by the insistence of footballers in taking the knee before matches?
Straw clutching, but cases not up as much day on day as I feared.
We're doing more testing in a day than most EU countries are doing in a week, let alone sequencing, so we know what people have - if its out there, we're finding it and know what it is - the others - not so clear.
Hospital occupancy trends starting to look a little ominous. From bobbing around in the upper 700s in England, we've seen a jump to 860 over the weekend.
Still very low, but we know how exponential increases can get. I had been hoping we wouldn't see something like that, but the three days of data just released after the weekend aren't as encouraging as I'd have hoped. Especially in the North West (up to 245 from 184 a week earlier and a low of 142 on the 18th of May).
Number in mechanical ventilation beds in England now no longer in the 110-120 region as it had been with a couple of blips upwards; now up at 133 (latest four days: 119, 124, 131, 133).
Of course, with numbers this low, it can be skewed by a number of households who were dodging vaccinations, so not cause for panic at all. Just possibly cause for keeping attention on them.
I do think that these (coupled with vaccination numbers) are the key metric, over and above hospital admissions, and far more so than cases numbers.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Nope, I was all in favour of Kick It Out, it’s pretty much eliminated racism in football stadia.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
I'm sorry but it's just wrong to say that BLM is promoting division. Just plain wrong.
It is. Absolutely it promotes division as it's a "if you don't do this you're a racist" kind of thing. If you don't like the knee you're a racist. If you don't wear a poppy you're a traitor. It's all part of the same bullshit divisiveness.
Yes that is a good point.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist. Which is bollocks.
But can we not look at taking the knee on the football pitch and just judge it to be an anti-racism message? No one has to "do" anything. They just see a bunch of blokes displaying the fact that they don't like racism, in an environment (the footie) that has historically been riven with racism. And other isms for that matter.
I think if they picked a different empty gesture that wasn't so charged and related to the US it might be better. The problem with the knee, IMO, is that it feels accusatory of all of us as being racists like Americans or accuses British culture of accepting racial violence by the police as it is in some parts of the US. Ultimately I think that's the issue, people who aren't racist feel like they're being accused of being racist specifically by the knee gesture. Another one probably wouldn't do that.
As a casual observer of the whole BLM evolution (ie no idea) I hadn't thought that taking the knee itself was so charged. Well it seems to be by the people on here's reaction so that is interesting.
It just seemed to be a gesture and yes, any old gesture but one that was lifted from the US but we lift everything from the US.
If we are at the point where we say we are happy with a gesture against racism but not *that* gesture then I must say I am non-plussed.
Comments
No Green in Batley and Spen must make Labour odds more attractive?
Particularly as Mr Peltier would be a reasonably well-known character in those parts. He's a bit of an RL cult hero in a part of the world where that carries some kudos amongst the WWC (And others). And he hasn't played for Leeds.
Think Labour hold possibility just strengthened.
I reckon social media.
Southgate got 4000 letters slagging him off after his pen miss in 96 - it’s been going on for decades to players of all colours.
This one seems to be quite tokenistic though, not sure how meaningful people really find it, or will find it, in time.
Wikipedia defines Apartheid as “A system of institutionalised racial segregation“. The US north didn’t need laws to enact such a system, just institutions run by racists.
During my refurb I've realised I have hundreds of books that have to go. Does anyone know of a charity that collects them? They're probably worth £200 or more, I'd happily give them away to get them off my back
Unlocking cannot become like a mirage in the desert, forever a fortnight away.
I thank yow
Some of the wealthiest young people on the planet and their nearly all "Marxists" who know how to boil the piss of PBs most prominent Gammons.
However again it was largely informal segregation rather than state sanctioned segregation prescribed by state law as in the southern US and South Africa
And. They really couldn't have got anyone as well known.
So. Labour boost imho.
It's a bugbear of mine for no apparent reason.
Much better to give them to Bookmarks over the road to help the socialists - they always have some second hand books outside the shop.
The 1970 stop the tour campaign as well.
If they aren't a bit woke for you.
Target the racism, and do it effectively. Don't stoke the culture wars.
BLM is very different. It’s promoting division rather than seeking to eliminate it.
Second prize in the grand draw is two signed copies of...
There is literally no difference between the meaningless gesture of kneeling and the meaningless gesture of linking arms.
It's just one "side" has irrationally decided it doesn't like kneeling.
https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1401927434333835266?s=19
No doubt you will blame others for the very serious strife that will result as you egg it on.
If so, the case rates increases appear to link with the 17 May lifting - will we see an increase in hospital rates over the current week?
How does the Delta variant change this understanding?
But in fact a lot of them are just hardbacks which have since been replaced so a sequence matches (and takes up less space)
I think it could have been with more leaders like Mandela, but sadly we didn't get that.
At Bamber Bridge in Lancashire when the local US commanders insisted on racial segregation in the village, all three local pubs posted 'Black Troops Only' signs.
That was at Twickenham though, so I don’t know how loud it gets at a football match. Also if it were an international with roughly equal numbers I can see that one side booing the anthem of the other would probably be more effective.
Good question.
At least there are a few people left with some common decency.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist. Which is bollocks.
But can we not look at taking the knee on the football pitch and just judge it to be an anti-racism message? No one has to "do" anything. They just see a bunch of blokes displaying the fact that they don't like racism, in an environment (the footie) that has historically been riven with racism. And other isms for that matter.
Yebbut even ethnic minorities say it’s made things worse. Every category has a majority saying so
Feel free to come back when your logical brain has had a reckoning with your emotional brain.
Until, then I have better things to do.
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to see our VI first
Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s net approval rating is positive for the eighteenth week in a row––this time at +9%, a two-point increase from last week. This week’s poll finds 43% approving of his overall job performance (no change) against 34% disapproving (down 2%).
Keir Starmer’s net approval rating stands at -8%, a two-point increase from last week. 34% disapprove of Keir Starmer’s job performance (down 3%), while 26% approve (down 1%). Meanwhile, 34% neither approve nor disapprove of Starmer’s job performance.
Yet that's not happening is it? So much easier for you to blame the idiotic public for being duped, than to admit the Tories might actually be popular as they're going something right. Or that Labour and other opposition parties might be unpopular as they're doing something wrong.
Would it not in that case be simpler for the opposition to dissolve the people and elect another?
1 dead, 7 injured and 32 convicted of mutiny.
Really surprised this hasn't been made into a film.
If being woke is being anti-racist, then the obverse must be that if you are not woke you are pro-racist.
Point of logic, the obverse is that if you are racist then you are not woke.
First editions
I expect the owner was not taking a stand against racism, merely displaying common decency towards people who were risking their necks on behalf of all of us.
* yes I am aware of the origins as a big NFL fan.
The answer, it seems, is to give them to a 2nd hand bookshop, but the nearest is probably Charing X Road.
If they can collect, they can have. Deal
Great job the vaccine rollout. Something that has really gone well. 😀💉
A new kit for Ukraine's football team, showing a map including Russian-annexed Crimea, has provoked anger in Moscow.
Ukraine unveiled its shirt for Euro 2020, emblazoned with its borders including Crimea and the slogan "Glory to Ukraine!"...
A Russian MP called it a "political provocation".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57379875
Trying to import American views of race, with a long history of racial division well inside living memory, to other countries just doesn’t work. The USA need to sort out their own problems of violence and racism.
But they had "kick it out" which was a bit like Rock Against Racism, which was pretty mainstream and maybe even boring vs some of the other, er, tastier organisations around at the time which took more proactive action.
I don't think anyone here knows what the BLM manifesto actually is and it may well be that "BLM" is forgotten and all that is left is the anti-racist message.
Still very low, but we know how exponential increases can get. I had been hoping we wouldn't see something like that, but the three days of data just released after the weekend aren't as encouraging as I'd have hoped. Especially in the North West (up to 245 from 184 a week earlier and a low of 142 on the 18th of May).
Number in mechanical ventilation beds in England now no longer in the 110-120 region as it had been with a couple of blips upwards; now up at 133 (latest four days: 119, 124, 131, 133).
Of course, with numbers this low, it can be skewed by a number of households who were dodging vaccinations, so not cause for panic at all. Just possibly cause for keeping attention on them.
I do think that these (coupled with vaccination numbers) are the key metric, over and above hospital admissions, and far more so than cases numbers.
No reported deaths from Covid in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland today. Just one in Wales.
It just seemed to be a gesture and yes, any old gesture but one that was lifted from the US but we lift everything from the US.
If we are at the point where we say we are happy with a gesture against racism but not *that* gesture then I must say I am non-plussed.
https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1401931473981149185