Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
From the NE article, quoting Green Party: "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election."
I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.
Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.
*Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
The Green Party is doing OK, but it needs opposing
I might start The Hague Blue Party, dedicated to raising global temperatures by making bedrooms sexier
Phwoarrr! Or a bit of a ten Pinter?
From the days when William Hague was considered on the right of the party
And the Tories only had 166 MPs, 36 fewer even than Labour have now.
One reason why Tories should not be complacent, the pendulum can turn
I think Tories are very complacent, much like they were back in the early 1990s. They believed then that Labour was finished and that they could do as they pleased.
12,383 Delta variant identified: 464 - presented at Emergency Care 126 - hospitalised, of these: - 83 - unvaccinated - 28 - 1 dose - 3 - 2 doses
Huge protection against hospitalisation from 2 doses.
You do have to take into account that 2 dose people will typically be 8-12 weeks or more from their first dose, but 1 dose people will potentially have been vaccinated as recently as the same day they go to the hospital. I suspect that when we have a lot more cases there won't be quite the gap that it seems once 1 dose people have had time to develop some immunity.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
The issue is that we have a massive problem of black on black violence is this Country which is not on the media agenda. Stabbings hardly make the news now. And our footballers are worried about American police.
From the NE article, quoting Green Party: "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election."
I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.
Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.
*Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
The Green Party is doing OK, but it needs opposing
I might start The Hague Blue Party, dedicated to raising global temperatures by making bedrooms sexier
Phwoarrr! Or a bit of a ten Pinter?
From the days when William Hague was considered on the right of the party
And the Tories only had 166 MPs, 36 fewer even than Labour have now.
One reason why Tories should not be complacent, the pendulum can turn
I think Tories are very complacent, much like they were back in the early 1990s. They believed then that Labour was finished and that they could do as they pleased.
New Labour was much the same by the mid 2000s, the longer parties are in power inevitably the more complacent they get
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonises fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
Gareth Southgate has a lot to answer for here with his arrogant statement that they're "more determined than ever" to do it. It demonstrates zero guile, and suggests he only talks to people that have one point of view - he hasn't got the self-awareness to recognise it splits the fan-base completely.
If he'd asked all his players to stand and link arms against discrimination instead, he'd have been applauded:
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
Weak. Some people just need to get a grip. There's plenty more important things to be getting on with than complaining that a bunch of 20 something footballers wish to put their knee into the ground for 30 seconds at the start of every match.
Let me repeat: being opposed to the state killing black men is not political. It's absolutely ludicrous and completely irrational.
Kneeling at every opportunity to protest the state killing black men in a country where the state kills very few black men is indeed absolutely ludicrous and completely irrational...
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
The issue is that we have a massive problem of black on black violence is this Country which is not on the media agenda. Stabbings hardly make the news now. And our footballers are worried about American police.
I don't disagree with you. Has nothing to do with BLM though.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
When does it end? Are they going to do it forever? It's embarrassing now, and it could cause resentment and acrimony in the euros and might well crimp England's performance, as they feel the supporters are ambivalent
Clap for Carers was a similar bit of vague and meaningless communal sharing that started well enough but dragged on, into virtue signalling silliness, but at least there the woman who conceived it had the good sense to say: Enough, we stop on this day, that's it
They should do the same for the knee. Say we do a Big One on the first match of the championship, with a minute's silence, or whatever, remembering the victims of blah blah, and then it is done. No more. The point is made
It's not like we stopped caring about the NHS because we stopped clapping on Thursdays
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
My problem is that it's addressing a problem that really doesn't exist in the UK - police officers don't kill significantly more black people than white people simply because they don't kill people.
What it has done is sidetracked the anti-racism campaign and as @MaxPB has highlighted below has done nothing to sort out the opportunities for coloured people nor the issues of people grooming young blacks to do their dirty work.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonises fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
Gareth Southgate has a lot to answer for here with his arrogant statement that they're "more determined than ever" to do it. It demonstrates zero guile, and suggests he only talks to people that have one point of view - he hasn't got the self-awareness to recognise it splits the fan-base completely.
If he'd asked all his players to stand and link arms against discrimination instead, he'd have been applauded:
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
From the NE article, quoting Green Party: "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election."
I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.
Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.
*Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
The Green Party is doing OK, but it needs opposing
I might start The Hague Blue Party, dedicated to raising global temperatures by making bedrooms sexier
Phwoarrr! Or a bit of a ten Pinter?
From the days when William Hague was considered on the right of the party
And the Tories only had 166 MPs, 36 fewer even than Labour have now.
One reason why Tories should not be complacent, the pendulum can turn
I think Tories are very complacent, much like they were back in the early 1990s. They believed then that Labour was finished and that they could do as they pleased.
New Labour was much the same by the mid 2000s, the longer parties are in power inevitably the more complacent they get
Indeed. Hubris always gets politicians and parties in the end
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
When does it end? Are they going to do it forever? It's embarrassing now, and it could cause resentment and acrimony in the euros and might well crimp England's performance, as they feel the supporters are ambivalent
Clap for Carers was a similar bit of vague and meaningless communal sharing that started well enough but dragged on, into virtue signalling silliness, but at least there the woman who conceived it had the good sense to say: Enough, we stop on this day, that's it
They should do the same for the knee. Say we do a Big One on the first match of the championship, with a minute's silence, or whatever, remembering the victims of blah blah, and then it is done. No more. The point is made
It's not like we stopped caring about the NHS because we stopped clapping on Thursdays
The more people get angry about it, the longer they're going to do it. That is obvious.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
You cannot tell the difference between Apartheid South Africa and 2021 America.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
Boundary review. A few initial things - all the early "oh it's bad for party X or party Y" stuff will be rubbish. The overall net impact comes not from the high profile abolished seats, but the incremental impact of all the moderate changes here and there.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
You cannot tell the difference between Apartheid South Africa and 2021 America.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
You cannot tell the difference between Apartheid South Africa and 2021 America.
I predict when there are full stadiums, there will be fights break out over this taking of the knee. Loads of people will boo, others will get offended at the booing and it will kick off.
FPT, I just noticed @Kinablu's well argued post saying why the Right won't win the culture wars. Two things that just wanted to highlight:
1. It's interesting that Kinablu's view is they see a victory for the Right in the culture wars as meaning we get such delights as mandatory statues to slave traders and so on. I can't speak for all but I would see a "victory" as meaning that all are equal and treated equally, and that we are viewed as individuals with our thoughts and ideas, and not that we are pigeon-holed into blocks that are supposed to think the same way, talk the same way etc based on our skin colour, secuality etc.
2. The idea that the advance of "progressive" ideas is always inevitable is also wrong. The best example of that is the promotion of Adult-Child relationships in the 1970s by the likes of PIE and their supporters. For the 1970s, "wokesters", it was the equivalent of the gender identity arguments of today. Needless to say, the former argument doesn't look so great 40+ years on.
I would say that most progressive people would sign up wholeheartedly to your number 1 (maybe not all, but then progressives like conservatives are not a monolith). It's a bit like the Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter debate. Progressives say that Black Lives Matter because they think that all lives matter and they want to highlight the injustices that mean that right now some lives matter more than others. They interpret people saying All Lives Matter as an effort to downplay those injustices. Some people who say All Lives Matter may not be doing that, but some certainly are. On 2 I would agree. You only need to compare Weimar and Nazi Germany to see that history is not monotonic. Hopefully progressive ideals will win in the end but only if we fight for them.
Progressive ‘ideals’ really aren’t *winning*. I wish they were in many respects
The West has stopped advancing, for many reasons, just one is the influence of Muslim immigrants on our culture, which is now palpable. Wokeness and Critical Race Theory are not ‘progressive’, their sinister, relentless focus on skin pigmentation, which apparently trumps all else, would delight any Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The progress in sexual freedom is arguably in reverse, as a new Puritanism takes over, meanwhile those who once fought for women’s rights now fight bitterly about a miniature issue, trans rights, in way that speaks firmly of Decadence and Decline
Meanwhile across the world the rising power, and civilisation, is China, anti-democratic, patriarchal, tinged with racial supremacism. It supersedes the West, our values are eclipsed
This is Radio Jeremiad, broadcasting lamentations from my half painted bedroom.
I am trying to think of a Muslim immigrant who exercises a significant cultural influence, positive or negative, and I can't think of one. Boris Johnson was born abroad and has a partly Muslim heritage, I think he's the closest I can come up with. Who do you have in mind? What colour are you painting your room?
As I say below, see our de facto blasphemy law. You cannot mock Islam. Where did that come from?
Anything else? (I have no particular yearning to mock Islam so I don't feel the loss of this particular freedom too keenly, although I share your view that in general people should be able to take a bit of gentle ribbing). The important question is what colour are you painting your room?
So you were wrong. Islam HAS had a big influence. The reintroduction of blasphemy laws, de facto, with a possible death penalty at the end, is no small thing. Yet you just laugh it off. Spineless lefty numbskulls like you are the reason the Enlightenment is in reverse
Bedroom paint: Hague Blue. Bit of a cliche but it really does make wooden furniture, floors, picture frames, look great. I am now tempted to paint all the white emulsion (doors, windows, wardrobe) a rich and scandalous red
Unless you have just converted a five-storey Bloomsbury house, complete with period fittings and furniture, into a happening and now members' club you have no business going anywhere near Hague Blue.
I’ll paint my room however I fucking like, if it’s all the same to you.
I have big Georgian sash windows. Works a treat
I think I am going for glossy scarlet emulsion. Gulp. Vermeer meets Le Chabanais
No @Leon you won't. You will get yourself down to Homebase and pick up something eye-catching by Dulux.
Nothing worse than an uppity bedroom painter.
You were born in St John’s Wood. North of the park
UGH
If it helps I moved out as soon as I realised the error. To Bolton Gardens, if you're counting.
Too far West, maybe. Almost south of the river!
I am ashamed to admit I have lived south of the river. But only once. And I do have an excuse. I was incarcerated in Brixton Jail, so it’s not like I had much choice
Still. South of the river. *Shudders*
Bolton Gardens "too far West". LOL.
When I was living on the Old Brompton Road I suggested to a friend of mine we go for a drink near me (The Troubadour, although as a Northie you probably don't know it). He lives in Lowndes Square and demurred, saying it was "so far out".
To be semi serious, for me the definition of the right location in London (setting class aside) is that you must be a few minutes from serious greenery, and you must be able to walk to the West End
I’ve never understood the popularity of Notting Hill, for that reason alone. Way too far out, practically Shepherd’s Bush. Nice houses tho
Notting Hill is right next to Kensington Gardens, Hyde Park, and Holland Park how much green do you want short of Hampstead Heath? And meanwhile it's a lovely walk along High St Ken to the West End.
I think it depends if you are a North Londoner, in which case you can find all you need or want in Hampstead/Primrose Hill, or a West Londoner, in which case it's Notting Hill, etc, always bearing in mind the dictum "Heaven is SW7".
If your idea of heaven is full of absurdly over-priced shoe-box apartments, terrible traffic, French people and pretentious shops, then I agree you'll find it in South Kensington.
My cousin used to live there, but finds W8 just as expensive but much more congenial.
Surely you mean multi-storey townhouses? What's this shoebox you speak of?
Actually never lived there - have lived in W8 and loved it (although I was spoiled because I lived in a very fancy house in a very fancy street because a mate offered me a room there).
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Well I've never been a fan of Sky Sports. I equally think Kick it Out is better.
But I don't care if players wish to take the knee so long as it is a personal choice.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
The NBA went with a similar thing and it absolutely tanked the ratings in the US and pissed off loads of people. The NFL went with "inspire change" campaign, few players take the knee and even Trump isn't ranting about "inspire change" campaign.
I predict when there are full stadiums, there will be fights break out over this taking of the knee. Loads of people will boo, others will get offended at the booing and it will kick off.
I think The Emirates is the most likely stadium where there might be trouble.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You have gone full circle, if Black Lives mattered so much to BLM in the UK then they would be highlighting the daily stabbings not non-existent police shootings of black men.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
Yes of course, the lines between "Black Lives Matter" and "Black lives matter" are not blurry at all. How could anyone not understand Black lives matter and Black lives Matter, sorry, Black Lives MAtter, no, wait, black Lives MATTER, hold on, black lives Matter, err, anyway these two indistinguishable things are completely different, almost in parallel universes, frankly.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You have gone full circle, if Black Lives mattered so much to BLM in the UK then they would be highlighting the daily stabbings not non-existent police shootings of black men.
You really enjoy revelling in ignorance don't you?
I predict when there are full stadiums, there will be fights break out over this taking of the knee. Loads of people will boo, others will get offended at the booing and it will kick off.
Imagine the problems in pubs.
If I was a landlord showing the game I would make it clear the coverage would start after the kneeling had ended.
Of course BT Sport have doubled down on this and now on top of BLM, they have this aggressive social media anti-hate campaign that is tied to a non-charity (its a lobbying organisation that is trying to force big tech to radically change) that is run by a similar lady with lets say some very interesting views.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
Yes of course, the lines between "Black Lives Matter" and "Black lives matter" are not blurry at all. How could anyone not understand Black lives matter and Black lives Matter, sorry, Black Lives MAtter, no, wait, black Lives MATTER, hold on, black lives Matter, anyway these two indistinguishable things are completely different things, almost in parallel universes.
You must be deluded if you think these football players and massive corporations are actively supporting a pseudo marxist organisation.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
Yes of course, the lines between "Black Lives Matter" and "Black lives matter" are not blurry at all. How could anyone not understand Black lives matter and Black lives Matter, sorry, Black Lives MAtter, no, wait, black Lives MATTER, hold on, black lives Matter, anyway these two indistinguishable things are completely different things, almost in parallel universes.
You must be deluded if you think these football players and massive corporations are actively supporting a pseudo marxist organisation.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Alabama and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
Yes of course, the lines between "Black Lives Matter" and "Black lives matter" are not blurry at all. How could anyone not understand Black lives matter and Black lives Matter, sorry, Black Lives MAtter, no, wait, black Lives MATTER, hold on, black lives Matter, anyway these two indistinguishable things are completely different things, almost in parallel universes.
You must be deluded if you think these football players and massive corporations are actively supporting a pseudo marxist organisation.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
Sorry, but there is a fundamental difference. There are a lot of "black on black" killings because black communities are often poor and criminality springs from poverty whether black or white. The concern is as to whether US police officers kill black people disproportionately because they are racist. These are two fundamentally different issues. To conflate them is tantamount to saying "oh no bother, "they" kill each other anyway"
Firstly, I was talking about the UK, not the US. Tbh, I don't give many fucks about what happens in the US. We've got enough of our own issues, no need to import their ones too.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
As I am not black or from an inner city I am probably not well placed to have a strong opinion, but I think you will find though that organised crime is not something that is exclusively black.
I'm Asian and grew up on an inner city council estate. While there are some non-black elements to gang violence such as Eastern Europeans, gypsies/travellers and a few Turkish and Asian ones, in London the vast majority of gangs are black. The vast majority of victims of their violence are black and the vast majority of the victims of their criminal grooming are young black teenagers.
As I said just now, I'm not sure what the solution is here. I'd suggest we could start by actually talking about the problem rather than just ignoring it or blaming white people as BLM do.
Decriminalise (and tax) drugs? I can see why that suggestion is likely to go down like a bucket of cold sick with many, but it might be a start. Although perhaps not as bad as the US, we do seem quite happy to let black people take on all the negative aspects (gangs, turf wars, killings, etc) of a trade to largely provide drugs to white people.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
Yes of course, the lines between "Black Lives Matter" and "Black lives matter" are not blurry at all. How could anyone not understand Black lives matter and Black lives Matter, sorry, Black Lives MAtter, no, wait, black Lives MATTER, hold on, black lives Matter, anyway these two indistinguishable things are completely different things, almost in parallel universes.
You must be deluded if you think these football players and massive corporations are actively supporting a pseudo marxist organisation.
LOL, of course Jordan Henderson doesn't really want to end inequality, he's a multi-millionaire after all. But they don't lose anything pretending they give a fuck.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
When does it end? Are they going to do it forever? It's embarrassing now, and it could cause resentment and acrimony in the euros and might well crimp England's performance, as they feel the supporters are ambivalent
Clap for Carers was a similar bit of vague and meaningless communal sharing that started well enough but dragged on, into virtue signalling silliness, but at least there the woman who conceived it had the good sense to say: Enough, we stop on this day, that's it
They should do the same for the knee. Say we do a Big One on the first match of the championship, with a minute's silence, or whatever, remembering the victims of blah blah, and then it is done. No more. The point is made
It's not like we stopped caring about the NHS because we stopped clapping on Thursdays
South London born & bred Wilf Zaha won’t take the knee anymore.
Actually it would be better I think if thE PL stopped formally having a set aside minute for it, but players chose to do it anyway.
When Arsenal took the knee vs Slavia Prague, who has been racist to a Rangers player in the previous match, it was quite powerful
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonises fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
Gareth Southgate has a lot to answer for here with his arrogant statement that they're "more determined than ever" to do it. It demonstrates zero guile, and suggests he only talks to people that have one point of view - he hasn't got the self-awareness to recognise it splits the fan-base completely.
If he'd asked all his players to stand and link arms against discrimination instead, he'd have been applauded:
Why give in to the dickheads? I fully support Southgate. If the players want to do something, they should do it.
Because it's divisive amongst the country they are representing at large, and therefore ineffective in what they want to achieve. They might think that unfair but the very fact we're having this debate - and can't agree - shows it's futile. It's always going to be polarising, not unifying.
Southgate's job, as their manager, is to sometimes tell them things they don't want to hear. They are young and passionate people, but they can also be hot-headed and impetuous.
Southgate's (and worse the likes of Lineker) statements aren't very wise, as they basically said you boo, you are an ignorant racist...its like calling all Leavers knucklehead racists....
Saying we don't understand why anybody would, we are going to double down, just ignores that some people legitimately object to symbolism links to BLM.
We had kick it out, very few people objected to that....those doing so were the actual racists.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
When does it end? Are they going to do it forever? It's embarrassing now, and it could cause resentment and acrimony in the euros and might well crimp England's performance, as they feel the supporters are ambivalent
Clap for Carers was a similar bit of vague and meaningless communal sharing that started well enough but dragged on, into virtue signalling silliness, but at least there the woman who conceived it had the good sense to say: Enough, we stop on this day, that's it
They should do the same for the knee. Say we do a Big One on the first match of the championship, with a minute's silence, or whatever, remembering the victims of blah blah, and then it is done. No more. The point is made
It's not like we stopped caring about the NHS because we stopped clapping on Thursdays
The more people get angry about it, the longer they're going to do it. That is obvious.
Such petulance will simply lead to declining support and viewership, and possibly political intervention.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Why do you use such a silly phrase to reply to a comment?
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
Yes of course, the lines between "Black Lives Matter" and "Black lives matter" are not blurry at all. How could anyone not understand Black lives matter and Black lives Matter, sorry, Black Lives MAtter, no, wait, black Lives MATTER, hold on, black lives Matter, anyway these two indistinguishable things are completely different things, almost in parallel universes.
You must be deluded if you think these football players and massive corporations are actively supporting a pseudo marxist organisation.
They are
Only the little snowflakes think that.
Whenever I do a Hitler salute before a football match, as I do, I always point out to people that I am supporting "Nazi germany" not "Nazi Germany". Because these two things are very different.
in my experience, most people understand, and overcome their initial doubts, once the difference between "Nazi Germany" and "Nazi germany" is carefully explained
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
When does it end? Are they going to do it forever? It's embarrassing now, and it could cause resentment and acrimony in the euros and might well crimp England's performance, as they feel the supporters are ambivalent
Clap for Carers was a similar bit of vague and meaningless communal sharing that started well enough but dragged on, into virtue signalling silliness, but at least there the woman who conceived it had the good sense to say: Enough, we stop on this day, that's it
They should do the same for the knee. Say we do a Big One on the first match of the championship, with a minute's silence, or whatever, remembering the victims of blah blah, and then it is done. No more. The point is made
It's not like we stopped caring about the NHS because we stopped clapping on Thursdays
The more people get angry about it, the longer they're going to do it. That is obvious.
Such petulance will simply lead to declining support and viewership, and possibly political intervention.
Political intervention is petulance in itself.
It is petulant and childish to boo, and it is petulant and childish to continue doing it in response to booing.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
So you admit
1. it's meaningless
and
2. it is now part of the culture war
So why not stop doing it? Unless you think you are part of this culture war and you want to win it
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
Yes of course, the lines between "Black Lives Matter" and "Black lives matter" are not blurry at all. How could anyone not understand Black lives matter and Black lives Matter, sorry, Black Lives MAtter, no, wait, black Lives MATTER, hold on, black lives Matter, err, anyway these two indistinguishable things are completely different, almost in parallel universes, frankly.
Why did my mate James’ early 2010s repair shop venture fail?
He called it ‘Jim’ll Fix It’ whilst Saville was being unveiled as a nonse, but surely people are intellectually honest enough not to let that bother them? He was the cheapest in town!
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
So you admit
1. it's meaningless
and
2. it is now part of the culture war
So why not stop doing it? Unless you think you are part of this culture war and you want to win it
I have always admitted it was meaningless and yet I have always supported the individual's right to choose to do it.
Likewise I have always mocked those who get all upset by it.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
I've detested much of the last year as this poison has found its way into my workplace and industry; I've noticed that people are now been judged by what "group" they are rather than "who" they are.
Yes of course, the lines between "Black Lives Matter" and "Black lives matter" are not blurry at all. How could anyone not understand Black lives matter and Black lives Matter, sorry, Black Lives MAtter, no, wait, black Lives MATTER, hold on, black lives Matter, err, anyway these two indistinguishable things are completely different, almost in parallel universes, frankly.
There was a woman on the radio talking about the anniversary of the death of George Floyd. She was one of the organisers of the first BLM protests in the UK, and she repeatedly made the point that she was nothing to do with BLM UK, she was merely campaigning for BLM in the UK. It was like the bit about the Judean People's Front versus the People's Front of Judea in Holy Grail.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
Lol. The very same people were sh*tting on Marcus Rashford for having the gall to challenge the government.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
Yes of course, the lines between "Black Lives Matter" and "Black lives matter" are not blurry at all. How could anyone not understand Black lives matter and Black lives Matter, sorry, Black Lives MAtter, no, wait, black Lives MATTER, hold on, black lives Matter, err, anyway these two indistinguishable things are completely different, almost in parallel universes, frankly.
Why did my mate James’ early 2010s repair shop venture fail?
He called it ‘Jim’ll Fix It’ whilst Saville was being unveiled as a nonse, but surely people are intellectually honest enough not to let that bother them? He was the cheapest in town!
There is a chain of specialist off-licences in Bristol called Aimee's Wine House....always thought that was rather close to the bone.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
I've detested much of the last year as this poison has found its way into my workplace and industry; I've noticed that people are now been judged by what "group" they are rather than "who" they are.
I hate it. I want it gone.
However it seems you want it gone, not by rational compromise, but by complete and total victory in favour of conservatism.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
Feel free to point out where I've ever said that "the knee" is an "answer" to anything?
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
The comparison Gallowgate made was between the SA of 1970 and the America of today.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
The mistake was to have black lives matters on the shirts and on Sky Sports. You say it has nothing to do with the organisation, I say it's silly to use as a slogan the name of a far-left political movement.
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
Kick It Out was a very good campaign which has moved football on a long way, from the days when the likes of John Barnes got taunted by monkey noises from England fans.
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
It's going to be met with cheers too. So what is your point?
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
I've detested much of the last year as this poison has found its way into my workplace and industry; I've noticed that people are now been judged by what "group" they are rather than "who" they are.
I hate it. I want it gone.
However it seems you want it gone, not by rational compromise, but by complete and total victory in favour of conservatism.
That isn't going to make it go away.
No, I've posted my suggestions extensively on this matter on here and they are similar to @MaxPB.
But, you can forget tearing down statutes, excoriating our history and disrespecting our flag, yes. Don't take my word for it listen to the most successful Labour PM of all time:
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
The comparison Gallowgate made was between the SA of 1970 and the America of today.
That isn't what I did at all. My point was that it doesn't matter if something is foreign politics — it can still be something British people care about from a moral perspective.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
I've detested much of the last year as this poison has found its way into my workplace and industry; I've noticed that people are now been judged by what "group" they are rather than "who" they are.
I hate it. I want it gone.
However it seems you want it gone, not by rational compromise, but by complete and total victory in favour of conservatism.
That isn't going to make it go away.
No, I've posted my suggestions extensively on this matter on here and they are similar to @MaxPB.
But, you can forget tearing down statutes, excoriating our history and disrespecting our flag, yes. Don't take my word for it listen to the most successful Labour PM of all time:
The first new treatment for Alzheimer's disease for nearly 20 years has been approved by regulators in the United States, paving the way for its use in the UK.
Aducanumab targets the underlying cause of Alzheimer's, the most common form of dementia, rather than its symptoms.
At least 100,000 people in the UK with a mild form of the disease could be suitable for the drug.
But approval from the UK regulator could take more than a year.
He was a Rugby League player so he is a sporty type TBF.
Strewth! It's none other than Doncaster, Jamaica and ex-Bradford prop Ross Peltier! Namby pamby millennial snowflake whinging metropolitan middle class Marxist tree hugging liberal that I wouldn't call him to his face.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
I've detested much of the last year as this poison has found its way into my workplace and industry; I've noticed that people are now been judged by what "group" they are rather than "who" they are.
I hate it. I want it gone.
However it seems you want it gone, not by rational compromise, but by complete and total victory in favour of conservatism.
That isn't going to make it go away.
No, I've posted my suggestions extensively on this matter on here and they are similar to @MaxPB.
But, you can forget tearing down statutes, excoriating our history and disrespecting our flag, yes. Don't take my word for it listen to the most successful Labour PM of all time:
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
There's a lot of footballers other than Rashford who do fine deeds, both here and abroad, who just don't have as high a profile.
I don't have a strong view on this kneeling debate, but I also don't think enough attention is paid to the footballers' viewpoint. Why are they still doing it? I'd guess nearly half of British-born players in the PL are non-white, and then of course there's all the overseas players. Why aren't people asking for their views (other than Zaha)? I don't believe they are still doing it because of George Floyd, or because they are cultural marxists, and nor do I believe they are still doing it because they are daft conformists. Wouldn't it be interesting to have the players' perspective? I'd start with Chelsea...
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
Feel free to point out where I've ever said that "the knee" is an "answer" to anything?
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
Feel free to point out where I've ever said that "the knee" is an "answer" to anything?
Then exactly what purpose does it serve?
It doesn't serve any purpose.
That in itself is not a reason to "hate" it.
Dislike it perhaps — I don't really "like" it myself!
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
No different to many attitudes in the UK 100 to 150 years ago.
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
There's a lot of footballers other than Rashford who do fine deeds, both here and abroad, who just don't have as high a profile.
I don't have a strong view on this kneeling debate, but I also don't think enough attention is paid to the footballers' viewpoint. Why are they still doing it? I'd guess nearly half of British-born players in the PL are non-white, and then of course there's all the overseas players. Why aren't people asking for their views (other than Zaha)? I don't believe they are still doing it because of George Floyd, and nor do I believe they are still doing it because they are daft conformists. Wouldn't it be interesting to have the players' perspective? I'd start with Chelsea...
Racist social media abuse is a big motivation for them to carry on doing it I reckon
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
I've detested much of the last year as this poison has found its way into my workplace and industry; I've noticed that people are now been judged by what "group" they are rather than "who" they are.
I hate it. I want it gone.
However it seems you want it gone, not by rational compromise, but by complete and total victory in favour of conservatism.
That isn't going to make it go away.
No, I've posted my suggestions extensively on this matter on here and they are similar to @MaxPB.
But, you can forget tearing down statutes, excoriating our history and disrespecting our flag, yes. Don't take my word for it listen to the most successful Labour PM of all time:
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
There's a lot of footballers other than Rashford who do fine deeds, both here and abroad, who just don't have as high a profile.
I don't have a strong view on this kneeling debate, but I also don't think enough attention is paid to the footballers' viewpoint. Why are they still doing it? I'd guess nearly half of British-born players in the PL are non-white, and then of course there's all the overseas players. Why aren't people asking for their views (other than Zaha)? I don't believe they are still doing it because of George Floyd, or because they are cultural marxists, and nor do I believe they are still doing it because they are daft conformists. Wouldn't it be interesting to have the players' perspective? I'd start with Chelsea...
I'd imagine most are doing it for the same reason people are still wearing masks in shops, because it's a social convention right now.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
The comparison Gallowgate made was between the SA of 1970 and the America of today.
That isn't what I did at all. My point was that it doesn't matter if something is foreign politics — it can still be something British people care about from a moral perspective.
Well maybe but since we agree the two are light years apart, don't you think that, for a cause that's nowhere near as important as Apartheid, that by now the footie players have made their point...??
That's what's getting most fans isn't it? you made your point mate, you knelt for a year, now can we get on with the footie?
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do
W
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
…
Pretty overwhelming polling, isn't it?
I'm just racking my brains now to think of societies that 'increased racial tensions' where there was a happy ending..
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
The comparison Gallowgate made was between the SA of 1970 and the America of today.
That isn't what I did at all. My point was that it doesn't matter if something is foreign politics — it can still be something British people care about from a moral perspective.
Well maybe but since we agree the two are light years apart, don't you think that, for a cause that's nowhere near as important as Apartheid, that by now the footie players have made their point...??
That's what's getting most fans isn't it? you made your point mate, you knelt for a year, now can we get on with the footie?
They clearly haven't made their point though because a lot of people's reaction to a harmless meaningless gesture is to get their knickers in a twist over it.
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
The comparison Gallowgate made was between the SA of 1970 and the America of today.
That isn't what I did at all. My point was that it doesn't matter if something is foreign politics — it can still be something British people care about from a moral perspective.
Well maybe but since we agree the two are light years apart, don't you think that, for a cause that's nowhere near as important as Apartheid, that by now the footie players have made their point...??
That's what's getting most fans isn't it? you made your point mate, you knelt for a year, now can we get on with the footie?
A lot of football fans don’t stay quiet for minutes silences, and boo national anthems too - this us just the same old thing with an ism projected onto it
Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.
So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.
Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.
Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world. Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.
If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.
If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.
They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.
And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo
It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.
Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
The biggest issue is that it is British sport and USA politics.
Was apartheid merely South African politics?
Surely the parallel would be excluding the USA from international sporting competitions until they stop killing black people. Or something.
There is no comparison between Massachussetts, New York and California and apartheid South Africa and never really has been, you might be able to make a comparison between attitudes of whites in South Carolina, Georgia and Mississippi and those of whites in South Africa even today
Plenty of sundowner towns in Massachussetts between the late C19th and mid C20th. It might have been a nicer apartheid, but it was still white people making sure that black people got the short end of the stick.
The comparison Gallowgate made was between the SA of 1970 and the America of today.
That isn't what I did at all. My point was that it doesn't matter if something is foreign politics — it can still be something British people care about from a moral perspective.
Well maybe but since we agree the two are light years apart, don't you think that, for a cause that's nowhere near as important as Apartheid, that by now the footie players have made their point...??
That's what's getting most fans isn't it? you made your point mate, you knelt for a year, now can we get on with the footie?
A lot if football fans don’t stay quiet for minutes silences, and boo national anthems too - this us just the same old thing with an ism projected onto it
What would your reaction be if "woke" football fans started booing the National Anthem at England games? Would you be more determined than ever to keep playing it?
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
There's a lot of footballers other than Rashford who do fine deeds, both here and abroad, who just don't have as high a profile.
I don't have a strong view on this kneeling debate, but I also don't think enough attention is paid to the footballers' viewpoint. Why are they still doing it? I'd guess nearly half of British-born players in the PL are non-white, and then of course there's all the overseas players. Why aren't people asking for their views (other than Zaha)? I don't believe they are still doing it because of George Floyd, and nor do I believe they are still doing it because they are daft conformists. Wouldn't it be interesting to have the players' perspective? I'd start with Chelsea...
Racist social media abuse is a big motivation for them to carry on doing it I reckon
Yes, players like Sterling and many others get a lot of that. So what should they do about it? How can they make their displeasure known, and change things? I'm not saying taking the knee is the answer (I don't think it is), but what is? Wouldn't that be a more fruitful debate?
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
If certain people hadn't decided that their little feelings were hurt by a meaningless kneeling gesture this whole thing probably would have ended by now.
But no, culture war it is.
Or if the knee takers actually gave a shit about racial equality they'd have raised all of these points and so many more. Marcus Rashford is the only one of them that I have any respect for because he's actually done something and that's not even really related to racial inequality though it disproportionately will help black children he's stepped in to ensure all kids are taken care of, not just black ones. He's a really upstanding guy.
There's a lot of footballers other than Rashford who do fine deeds, both here and abroad, who just don't have as high a profile.
I don't have a strong view on this kneeling debate, but I also don't think enough attention is paid to the footballers' viewpoint. Why are they still doing it? I'd guess nearly half of British-born players in the PL are non-white, and then of course there's all the overseas players. Why aren't people asking for their views (other than Zaha)? I don't believe they are still doing it because of George Floyd, or because they are cultural marxists, and nor do I believe they are still doing it because they are daft conformists. Wouldn't it be interesting to have the players' perspective? I'd start with Chelsea...
I'd imagine most are doing it for the same reason people are still wearing masks in shops, because it's a social convention right now.
Amusing when certain players (e.g. Anthony Martial) occasionally forget about it.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do
W
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
…
Pretty overwhelming polling, isn't it?
I'm just racking my brains now to think of societies that 'increased racial tensions' where there was a happy ending..
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do
W
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I wouldn't say I am "rattled" but I am determined to resist the PB groupthink on this.
You can think what you like, but you know we're making good points.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
…
Pretty overwhelming polling, isn't it?
I'm just racking my brains now to think of societies that 'increased racial tensions' where there was a happy ending..
It would be interesting to see the results of this poll in the United States.
Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....
Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter. There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
OK boomer
Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
Literally the whole thing
Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.
However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.
They must be total hypocrites too, right?
Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.
Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.
I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.
Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.
I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.
I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.
Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.
We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.
The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
"black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.
Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
No it isn't. BLM is a political organisation that says the main issue for black people in the UK is police violence and it can be resolved with a Marxist revolution. It's a hateful organisation with people at the top who hate white people. They are driven by their hatred of whites (and Jews and Indians) not by some sense of injustice against black people.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
Black Lives Matter is a political organisation.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
You want it to support the latter but the reality is that it enables the former.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
A sign of when @Gallowgate is rattled - when he knows, secretly, deep down, his opponents have a point - is when he reels off repetitive reply after reply to anyone who disagrees with him minute by minute.
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
I think that his "opponents" do have a point as we are witnessing on here. People think that taking the knee is divisive and woke and supporting a marxist agenda and they don't like it as apart from anything else it distracts from Op. Trident-type activities.
All well and good.
But consider that instead of all that it is simply further emphasis on not putting up with racism. I have no idea what the BLM manifesto is and I doubt you do either. It is entirely possible that the "politics" gets lost or fritters away and you are left with footballers, who play in an environment of total multiculturalism (in the UK at least) on field, and let's say a questionable environment of racism/non-racism off field on what were the terraces. And those footballers, white, black and the rest, are making a strong statement about their views on racism.
I don't think that is worthy of getting quite so het up about. I'm all for it. If it affects clubs' revenue then fine. If someone is going to kick off (in a pub, or at a ground) about it, then I am tempted to say bring it.
Comments
If he'd asked all his players to stand and link arms against discrimination instead, he'd have been applauded:
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-12-07/millwall-players-to-link-arms-rather-than-take-a-knee-ahead-of-qpr-game
Clap for Carers was a similar bit of vague and meaningless communal sharing that started well enough but dragged on, into virtue signalling silliness, but at least there the woman who conceived it had the good sense to say: Enough, we stop on this day, that's it
They should do the same for the knee. Say we do a Big One on the first match of the championship, with a minute's silence, or whatever, remembering the victims of blah blah, and then it is done. No more. The point is made
It's not like we stopped caring about the NHS because we stopped clapping on Thursdays
What it has done is sidetracked the anti-racism campaign and as @MaxPB has highlighted below has done nothing to sort out the opportunities for coloured people nor the issues of people grooming young blacks to do their dirty work.
The knee is a personal choice, I think it doesn't achieve anything at all. And I say that as someone who isn't white and has faced plenty of my own adversity both in the workplace and from the police. It's an empty gesture which trivialises the ongoing struggle for racial equality and has become counter-productive.
What an ignoramus.
Black lives matter is a movement.
Taking the knee supports the latter not the former. To suggest otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
https://twitter.com/anthonyjwells/status/1401917511843581953?s=20
Actually never lived there - have lived in W8 and loved it (although I was spoiled because I lived in a very fancy house in a very fancy street because a mate offered me a room there).
Stick "kick it out" on all of the shirts and there wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
But I don't care if players wish to take the knee so long as it is a personal choice.
If I was a landlord showing the game I would make it clear the coverage would start after the kneeling had ended.
And you're conveniently ignoring that, IMO, the knee has trivialised the struggle for racial equality. It simply glosses over everything. Footballers are taking the knee and racists are booing them is the story now. When the fuck do we get the politicians to notice glass ceilings, job application discrimination or grooming of black youths into criminal and violent gangs? Instead all we get is bullshit about who is and isn't taking the knee and endless rubbish about whether fans are all racists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVRzW4Gre0w
"Nigel Farage: Priti Patel "one of the worst Home Secretaries ever.""
Actually it would be better I think if thE PL stopped formally having a set aside minute for it, but players chose to do it anyway.
When Arsenal took the knee vs Slavia Prague, who has been racist to a Rangers player in the previous match, it was quite powerful
Southgate's job, as their manager, is to sometimes tell them things they don't want to hear. They are young and passionate people, but they can also be hot-headed and impetuous.
Saying we don't understand why anybody would, we are going to double down, just ignores that some people legitimately object to symbolism links to BLM.
We had kick it out, very few people objected to that....those doing so were the actual racists.
But no, culture war it is.
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1401915099590320128?s=20
in my experience, most people understand, and overcome their initial doubts, once the difference between "Nazi Germany" and "Nazi germany" is carefully explained
It's tickled something emotional within him, and his rational brain is struggling to engage with it.
It is petulant and childish to boo, and it is petulant and childish to continue doing it in response to booing.
But here we are.
CDU/CSU 26.5%
Greens 20.5%
SPD 15.5%
FDP 13.5%
AfD 11%
Linke 7%
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1401919276106358785?s=20
1. it's meaningless
and
2. it is now part of the culture war
So why not stop doing it? Unless you think you are part of this culture war and you want to win it
He called it ‘Jim’ll Fix It’ whilst Saville was being unveiled as a nonse, but surely people are intellectually honest enough not to let that bother them? He was the cheapest in town!
Likewise I have always mocked those who get all upset by it.
I hate it. I want it gone.
Amazing. Hand clap for all involved.
That isn't going to make it go away.
We need a solution where we achieve a happy, cohesive and patriotic multi-racial society where all are treated fairly, and all are at peace with each other.
BLM, "The Knee", and cultural Marxism aren't the answer to that.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/sport/articles-reports/2020/10/16/do-fans-support-premier-league-players-knee-blm
Roughly equal split pro and anti
Massive difference between ABC1 and C2DE
Massive difference between young and old
It's like every other miserable social attitude split in this wretched country at the moment...
BLM is deliberately divisive, and is going to be met with boos when the stadiums are full.
There was a lot of racism in football when Kick it Out first started. I bet the PB of the day would have accused it of being virtue signalling and divisive.
But, you can forget tearing down statutes, excoriating our history and disrespecting our flag, yes. Don't take my word for it listen to the most successful Labour PM of all time:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/05/tony-blair-without-total-change-labour-will-die
Aducanumab targets the underlying cause of Alzheimer's, the most common form of dementia, rather than its symptoms.
At least 100,000 people in the UK with a mild form of the disease could be suitable for the drug.
But approval from the UK regulator could take more than a year.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57383763
Namby pamby millennial snowflake whinging metropolitan middle class Marxist tree hugging liberal that I wouldn't call him to his face.
I don't have a strong view on this kneeling debate, but I also don't think enough attention is paid to the footballers' viewpoint. Why are they still doing it? I'd guess nearly half of British-born players in the PL are non-white, and then of course there's all the overseas players. Why aren't people asking for their views (other than Zaha)? I don't believe they are still doing it because of George Floyd, or because they are cultural marxists, and nor do I believe they are still doing it because they are daft conformists. Wouldn't it be interesting to have the players' perspective? I'd start with Chelsea...
That in itself is not a reason to "hate" it.
Dislike it perhaps — I don't really "like" it myself!
However there were no laws enforcing racial segregation in Massachussetts or the UK as such as there were in the southern US states until the mid 1960s and in South Africa until the early 1990s
Excellent.
That's what's getting most fans isn't it? you made your point mate, you knelt for a year, now can we get on with the footie?
I'm just racking my brains now to think of societies that 'increased racial tensions' where there was a happy ending..
It's completely irrational.
I bet the answer is yes.
Less than 17k in it
All well and good.
But consider that instead of all that it is simply further emphasis on not putting up with racism. I have no idea what the BLM manifesto is and I doubt you do either. It is entirely possible that the "politics" gets lost or fritters away and you are left with footballers, who play in an environment of total multiculturalism (in the UK at least) on field, and let's say a questionable environment of racism/non-racism off field on what were the terraces. And those footballers, white, black and the rest, are making a strong statement about their views on racism.
I don't think that is worthy of getting quite so het up about. I'm all for it. If it affects clubs' revenue then fine. If someone is going to kick off (in a pub, or at a ground) about it, then I am tempted to say bring it.