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By far the biggest concern of MPs today – what’s happening to their constituency in the boundary rev

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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,983
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    FPT, I just noticed @Kinablu's well argued post saying why the Right won't win the culture wars. Two things that just wanted to highlight:

    1. It's interesting that Kinablu's view is they see a victory for the Right in the culture wars as meaning we get such delights as mandatory statues to slave traders and so on. I can't speak for all but I would see a "victory" as meaning that all are equal and treated equally, and that we are viewed as individuals with our thoughts and ideas, and not that we are pigeon-holed into blocks that are supposed to think the same way, talk the same way etc based on our skin colour, secuality etc.

    2. The idea that the advance of "progressive" ideas is always inevitable is also wrong. The best example of that is the promotion of Adult-Child relationships in the 1970s by the likes of PIE and their supporters. For the 1970s, "wokesters", it was the equivalent of the gender identity arguments of today. Needless to say, the former argument doesn't look so great 40+ years on.

    I would say that most progressive people would sign up wholeheartedly to your number 1 (maybe not all, but then progressives like conservatives are not a monolith). It's a bit like the Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter debate. Progressives say that Black Lives Matter because they think that all lives matter and they want to highlight the injustices that mean that right now some lives matter more than others. They interpret people saying All Lives Matter as an effort to downplay those injustices. Some people who say All Lives Matter may not be doing that, but some certainly are.
    On 2 I would agree. You only need to compare Weimar and Nazi Germany to see that history is not monotonic. Hopefully progressive ideals will win in the end but only if we fight for them.
    Progressive ‘ideals’ really aren’t *winning*. I wish they were in many respects


    The West has stopped advancing, for many reasons, just one is the influence of Muslim immigrants on our culture, which is now palpable. Wokeness and Critical Race Theory are not ‘progressive’, their sinister, relentless focus on skin pigmentation, which apparently trumps all else, would delight any Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The progress in sexual freedom is arguably in reverse, as a new Puritanism takes over, meanwhile those who once fought for women’s rights now fight bitterly about a miniature issue, trans rights, in way that speaks firmly of Decadence and Decline

    Meanwhile across the world the rising power, and civilisation, is China, anti-democratic, patriarchal, tinged with racial supremacism. It supersedes the West, our values are eclipsed

    This is Radio Jeremiad, broadcasting lamentations from my half painted bedroom.
    I am trying to think of a Muslim immigrant who exercises a significant cultural influence, positive or negative, and I can't think of one. Boris Johnson was born abroad and has a partly Muslim heritage, I think he's the closest I can come up with. Who do you have in mind?
    What colour are you painting your room?
    As I say below, see our de facto blasphemy law. You cannot mock Islam. Where did that come from?
    Anything else? (I have no particular yearning to mock Islam so I don't feel the loss of this particular freedom too keenly, although I share your view that in general people should be able to take a bit of gentle ribbing).
    The important question is what colour are you painting your room?
    So you were wrong. Islam HAS had a big influence. The reintroduction of blasphemy laws, de facto, with a possible death penalty at the end, is no small thing. Yet you just laugh it off. Spineless lefty numbskulls like you are the reason the Enlightenment is in reverse

    Bedroom paint: Hague Blue. Bit of a cliche but it really does make wooden furniture, floors, picture frames, look great. I am now tempted to paint all the white emulsion (doors, windows, wardrobe) a rich and scandalous red
    Unless you have just converted a five-storey Bloomsbury house, complete with period fittings and furniture, into a happening and now members' club you have no business going anywhere near Hague Blue.
    I’ll paint my room however I fucking like, if it’s all the same to you.

    I have big Georgian sash windows. Works a treat

    I think I am going for glossy scarlet emulsion. Gulp. Vermeer meets Le Chabanais
    No @Leon you won't. You will get yourself down to Homebase and pick up something eye-catching by Dulux.

    Nothing worse than an uppity bedroom painter.
    You were born in St John’s Wood. North of the park

    UGH
    If it helps I moved out as soon as I realised the error. To Bolton Gardens, if you're counting.
    Too far West, maybe. Almost south of the river!

    I am ashamed to admit I have lived south of the river. But only once. And I do have an excuse. I was incarcerated in Brixton Jail, so it’s not like I had much choice

    Still. South of the river. *Shudders*
    Bolton Gardens "too far West". LOL.

    When I was living on the Old Brompton Road I suggested to a friend of mine we go for a drink near me (The Troubadour, although as a Northie you probably don't know it). He lives in Lowndes Square and demurred, saying it was "so far out".
    To be semi serious, for me the definition of the right location in London (setting class aside) is that you must be a few minutes from serious greenery, and you must be able to walk to the West End

    I’ve never understood the popularity of Notting Hill, for that reason alone. Way too far out, practically Shepherd’s Bush. Nice houses tho

    Notting Hill is right next to Kensington Gardens, Hyde Park, and Holland Park how much green do you want short of Hampstead Heath? And meanwhile it's a lovely walk along High St Ken to the West End.

    I think it depends if you are a North Londoner, in which case you can find all you need or want in Hampstead/Primrose Hill, or a West Londoner, in which case it's Notting Hill, etc, always bearing in mind the dictum "Heaven is SW7".
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,793
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    FPT, I just noticed @Kinablu's well argued post saying why the Right won't win the culture wars. Two things that just wanted to highlight:

    1. It's interesting that Kinablu's view is they see a victory for the Right in the culture wars as meaning we get such delights as mandatory statues to slave traders and so on. I can't speak for all but I would see a "victory" as meaning that all are equal and treated equally, and that we are viewed as individuals with our thoughts and ideas, and not that we are pigeon-holed into blocks that are supposed to think the same way, talk the same way etc based on our skin colour, secuality etc.

    2. The idea that the advance of "progressive" ideas is always inevitable is also wrong. The best example of that is the promotion of Adult-Child relationships in the 1970s by the likes of PIE and their supporters. For the 1970s, "wokesters", it was the equivalent of the gender identity arguments of today. Needless to say, the former argument doesn't look so great 40+ years on.

    I would say that most progressive people would sign up wholeheartedly to your number 1 (maybe not all, but then progressives like conservatives are not a monolith). It's a bit like the Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter debate. Progressives say that Black Lives Matter because they think that all lives matter and they want to highlight the injustices that mean that right now some lives matter more than others. They interpret people saying All Lives Matter as an effort to downplay those injustices. Some people who say All Lives Matter may not be doing that, but some certainly are.
    On 2 I would agree. You only need to compare Weimar and Nazi Germany to see that history is not monotonic. Hopefully progressive ideals will win in the end but only if we fight for them.
    Progressive ‘ideals’ really aren’t *winning*. I wish they were in many respects


    The West has stopped advancing, for many reasons, just one is the influence of Muslim immigrants on our culture, which is now palpable. Wokeness and Critical Race Theory are not ‘progressive’, their sinister, relentless focus on skin pigmentation, which apparently trumps all else, would delight any Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The progress in sexual freedom is arguably in reverse, as a new Puritanism takes over, meanwhile those who once fought for women’s rights now fight bitterly about a miniature issue, trans rights, in way that speaks firmly of Decadence and Decline

    Meanwhile across the world the rising power, and civilisation, is China, anti-democratic, patriarchal, tinged with racial supremacism. It supersedes the West, our values are eclipsed

    This is Radio Jeremiad, broadcasting lamentations from my half painted bedroom.
    I am trying to think of a Muslim immigrant who exercises a significant cultural influence, positive or negative, and I can't think of one. Boris Johnson was born abroad and has a partly Muslim heritage, I think he's the closest I can come up with. Who do you have in mind?
    What colour are you painting your room?
    As I say below, see our de facto blasphemy law. You cannot mock Islam. Where did that come from?
    Anything else? (I have no particular yearning to mock Islam so I don't feel the loss of this particular freedom too keenly, although I share your view that in general people should be able to take a bit of gentle ribbing).
    The important question is what colour are you painting your room?
    So you were wrong. Islam HAS had a big influence. The reintroduction of blasphemy laws, de facto, with a possible death penalty at the end, is no small thing. Yet you just laugh it off. Spineless lefty numbskulls like you are the reason the Enlightenment is in reverse

    Bedroom paint: Hague Blue. Bit of a cliche but it really does make wooden furniture, floors, picture frames, look great. I am now tempted to paint all the white emulsion (doors, windows, wardrobe) a rich and scandalous red
    Unless you have just converted a five-storey Bloomsbury house, complete with period fittings and furniture, into a happening and now members' club you have no business going anywhere near Hague Blue.
    I’ll paint my room however I fucking like, if it’s all the same to you.

    I have big Georgian sash windows. Works a treat

    I think I am going for glossy scarlet emulsion. Gulp. Vermeer meets Le Chabanais
    No @Leon you won't. You will get yourself down to Homebase and pick up something eye-catching by Dulux.

    Nothing worse than an uppity bedroom painter.
    You were born in St John’s Wood. North of the park

    UGH
    If it helps I moved out as soon as I realised the error. To Bolton Gardens, if you're counting.
    Too far West, maybe. Almost south of the river!

    I am ashamed to admit I have lived south of the river. But only once. And I do have an excuse. I was incarcerated in Brixton Jail, so it’s not like I had much choice

    Still. South of the river. *Shudders*
    Bolton Gardens "too far West". LOL.

    When I was living on the Old Brompton Road I suggested to a friend of mine we go for a drink near me (The Troubadour, although as a Northie you probably don't know it). He lives in Lowndes Square and demurred, saying it was "so far out".
    To be semi serious, for me the definition of the right location in London (setting class aside) is that you must be a few minutes from serious greenery, and you must be able to walk to the West End

    I’ve never understood the popularity of Notting Hill, for that reason alone. Way too far out, practically Shepherd’s Bush. Nice houses tho

    Why would you want to walk to the West End? For greenery, South of the river is best.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    See @Gallowgate 's response. It wasn't so much incorrect, it was just immensely ignorant, because it was drawing false comparisons.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,348

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    The actual problem is that talking to the police is seen as "snitching", and also the element of personal danger involved.

    The people who turned up at the party and started shooting almost certainly are part of a larger group....

    Giving evidence against people who are willing to commit murder in broad daylight, in front of witnesses, when they (the muderers) certainly have friends of the same... viewpoint who are not under arrest......
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,217
    Scott_xP said:

    No dressing it up I'm afraid.

    Francis is quite right.

    Sub 100k first doses in England is pisspoor, whatever day of the week it is.

    Remember we are supposed to be surging?

    In truth, the much-vaunted vaccine surge simply hasn't materialised.

    Also notable that the EU is now delivering more vaccines per head than the UK (after a terrible start). https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2021/06/how-china-s-covid-19-vaccine-programme-has-rapidly-accelerated https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1401863673421910016/photo/1
    It isn't.

    It's running at very nearly the same level, and an average of 27 countries will always be smoother. Which is actually what you would expect from peer countries after 2-3 months working out the bugs.



  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,793
    Dura_Ace said:

    This fucking paint discussion.

    You're just gutted because you've painted your living room Hague Blue and have realised that Leon and half of Britain have done the same thing.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    This will be fun:

    Seven months before taking over the EU’s rotating Council presidency, the French government is mulling plans to revive the declining use and visibility of la langue de Molière.

    The French government is earmarking money to offer more French classes to EU civil servants. Officials are contemplating hosting French-language debates featuring the country’s crème de la crème.

    And then there are the meetings.

    During the country’s presidency, French diplomats said all key meetings of the Council of the EU will be conducted in French (with translations available). Notes and minutes will be French-first. Even preparatory meetings will be conducted in French.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/in-2022-make-french-language-great-again-eu-presidency/

    There’s a hidden hypocrisy in France’s forlorn and doomed attempt to regain linguistic supremacy. They say they are fighting English ‘for the sake of all the other languages’, ‘to preserve multilingualism, the linguistic diversity of the world’, yada yada. But when other countries with other languages say, in response, ‘great, can we have more official languages in the EU, not just English French and German’, or ‘how about having several working languages in the ECJ, not just French’, the French respond with horror. ‘No, French is a truly great language’, it’s unique status must be preserved’.

    This has actually happened. eg Italy made these points, and then expressed deep irritation at the French
    Macron went around Africa telling them that if they had more belief, French could become the global language.
    It’s been said that in the next few decades there will only be two languages spoken in the world - English and Chinese. I think Spanish deserves an honourable mention though, and Russian will be not far behind it.
    It is possible there may still be hundreds of languages and you will not need to learn a different one because there will be auto-translate apps that are so good you just need to think of what you need to say and your phone will say it in Mandarin or Swahili or whatever, and you will hear it back in your own language, like the Babel fish in Hitchhiker's Guide...It is already happening
    English is very poorly suited to machine translation because we have so many phrasal verbs with vernacular usage.

    Take in, take out, take up, take down, etc.

    Russian works well. Blyat'.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Stocky said:

    For the first time since Covid began there were zero deaths recorded in English Hospitals yesterday from Covid.

    I thought there was a zero day last week?
    The hospitals data is distinct from the PHE data. It was PHE that reported no deaths last week.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    Stories of strawberry shortages incoming...

    Stay-at-home holidaymakers warned of summer products shortage

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57379810
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    Sorry, but there is a fundamental difference. There are a lot of "black on black" killings because black communities are often poor and criminality springs from poverty whether black or white. The concern is as to whether US police officers kill black people disproportionately because they are racist. These are two fundamentally different issues. To conflate them is tantamount to saying "oh no bother, "they" kill each other anyway"
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,467
    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.

    However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.

    They must be total hypocrites too, right?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Twatface Durden will be on the case to get him reinstated.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Notable thread on THAT Lancet letter

    "The Lancet letter of Feb 18, 2020, sent a message to scientists the world over: Investigate a lab leak, and you will be tarred as conspiracy theorist. Was it a honest outpouring of support? Or astroturfing? To start, of the 27 signatories, 7 were affiliated with EcoHealth... "


    ".. Alliance: Peter Daszak (President), Rita Colwell & James Hughes (BoD members), William Karesh (EVP for Health and Policy), Hume Field, Juan Lubroth, John Mackenzie (Science and Policy Advisors). The fact that a quarter of the signatories were affiliated with EHA was hidden."

    https://twitter.com/alexandrosM/status/1401813071635501056?s=20


    Only 8 of the signers were truly independent. Of those 8, 6 have now modified their views, or entirely recanted: now believing it DID come from the lab

    Given that this duplicitous letter is what silenced everyone on the lab leak hypothesis FOR A YEAR, that is quite something
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Could he open the bowling for England instead?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,164
    edited June 2021

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    FPT, I just noticed @Kinablu's well argued post saying why the Right won't win the culture wars. Two things that just wanted to highlight:

    1. It's interesting that Kinablu's view is they see a victory for the Right in the culture wars as meaning we get such delights as mandatory statues to slave traders and so on. I can't speak for all but I would see a "victory" as meaning that all are equal and treated equally, and that we are viewed as individuals with our thoughts and ideas, and not that we are pigeon-holed into blocks that are supposed to think the same way, talk the same way etc based on our skin colour, secuality etc.

    2. The idea that the advance of "progressive" ideas is always inevitable is also wrong. The best example of that is the promotion of Adult-Child relationships in the 1970s by the likes of PIE and their supporters. For the 1970s, "wokesters", it was the equivalent of the gender identity arguments of today. Needless to say, the former argument doesn't look so great 40+ years on.

    I would say that most progressive people would sign up wholeheartedly to your number 1 (maybe not all, but then progressives like conservatives are not a monolith). It's a bit like the Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter debate. Progressives say that Black Lives Matter because they think that all lives matter and they want to highlight the injustices that mean that right now some lives matter more than others. They interpret people saying All Lives Matter as an effort to downplay those injustices. Some people who say All Lives Matter may not be doing that, but some certainly are.
    On 2 I would agree. You only need to compare Weimar and Nazi Germany to see that history is not monotonic. Hopefully progressive ideals will win in the end but only if we fight for them.
    Progressive ‘ideals’ really aren’t *winning*. I wish they were in many respects


    The West has stopped advancing, for many reasons, just one is the influence of Muslim immigrants on our culture, which is now palpable. Wokeness and Critical Race Theory are not ‘progressive’, their sinister, relentless focus on skin pigmentation, which apparently trumps all else, would delight any Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The progress in sexual freedom is arguably in reverse, as a new Puritanism takes over, meanwhile those who once fought for women’s rights now fight bitterly about a miniature issue, trans rights, in way that speaks firmly of Decadence and Decline

    Meanwhile across the world the rising power, and civilisation, is China, anti-democratic, patriarchal, tinged with racial supremacism. It supersedes the West, our values are eclipsed

    This is Radio Jeremiad, broadcasting lamentations from my half painted bedroom.
    I am trying to think of a Muslim immigrant who exercises a significant cultural influence, positive or negative, and I can't think of one. Boris Johnson was born abroad and has a partly Muslim heritage, I think he's the closest I can come up with. Who do you have in mind?
    What colour are you painting your room?
    As I say below, see our de facto blasphemy law. You cannot mock Islam. Where did that come from?
    Anything else? (I have no particular yearning to mock Islam so I don't feel the loss of this particular freedom too keenly, although I share your view that in general people should be able to take a bit of gentle ribbing).
    The important question is what colour are you painting your room?
    So you were wrong. Islam HAS had a big influence. The reintroduction of blasphemy laws, de facto, with a possible death penalty at the end, is no small thing. Yet you just laugh it off. Spineless lefty numbskulls like you are the reason the Enlightenment is in reverse

    Bedroom paint: Hague Blue. Bit of a cliche but it really does make wooden furniture, floors, picture frames, look great. I am now tempted to paint all the white emulsion (doors, windows, wardrobe) a rich and scandalous red
    Unless you have just converted a five-storey Bloomsbury house, complete with period fittings and furniture, into a happening and now members' club you have no business going anywhere near Hague Blue.
    I’ll paint my room however I fucking like, if it’s all the same to you.

    I have big Georgian sash windows. Works a treat

    I think I am going for glossy scarlet emulsion. Gulp. Vermeer meets Le Chabanais
    No @Leon you won't. You will get yourself down to Homebase and pick up something eye-catching by Dulux.

    Nothing worse than an uppity bedroom painter.
    You were born in St John’s Wood. North of the park

    UGH
    If it helps I moved out as soon as I realised the error. To Bolton Gardens, if you're counting.
    Too far West, maybe. Almost south of the river!

    I am ashamed to admit I have lived south of the river. But only once. And I do have an excuse. I was incarcerated in Brixton Jail, so it’s not like I had much choice

    Still. South of the river. *Shudders*
    South London is where it is at my friend.
    I've lived in both South and North London, and my general impression is that the pace of life in the Sarf is slightly slower, for some reason. Even Brixton seems to operate a slightly slower pace than somewhere like Camden, I think. It must be to do with city-centre connectedness, I suppose.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Dura_Ace said:

    This fucking paint discussion.

    You're just gutted because you've painted your living room Hague Blue and have realised that Leon and half of Britain have done the same thing.
    Decided to look it up. Looks fucking horrible. Looks like the colour German soldiery used to have their tunics. Perhaps "paint your kitchen in F&B Field Grey" doesn't sound so appealing.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,217
    edited June 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    This will be fun:

    Seven months before taking over the EU’s rotating Council presidency, the French government is mulling plans to revive the declining use and visibility of la langue de Molière.

    The French government is earmarking money to offer more French classes to EU civil servants. Officials are contemplating hosting French-language debates featuring the country’s crème de la crème.

    And then there are the meetings.

    During the country’s presidency, French diplomats said all key meetings of the Council of the EU will be conducted in French (with translations available). Notes and minutes will be French-first. Even preparatory meetings will be conducted in French.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/in-2022-make-french-language-great-again-eu-presidency/

    There’s a hidden hypocrisy in France’s forlorn and doomed attempt to regain linguistic supremacy. They say they are fighting English ‘for the sake of all the other languages’, ‘to preserve multilingualism, the linguistic diversity of the world’, yada yada. But when other countries with other languages say, in response, ‘great, can we have more official languages in the EU, not just English French and German’, or ‘how about having several working languages in the ECJ, not just French’, the French respond with horror. ‘No, French is a truly great language’, it’s unique status must be preserved’.

    This has actually happened. eg Italy made these points, and then expressed deep irritation at the French
    Macron went around Africa telling them that if they had more belief, French could become the global language.
    It’s been said that in the next few decades there will only be two languages spoken in the world - English and Chinese. I think Spanish deserves an honourable mention though, and Russian will be not far behind it.
    It is possible there may still be hundreds of languages and you will not need to learn a different one because there will be auto-translate apps that are so good you just need to think of what you need to say and your phone will say it in Mandarin or Swahili or whatever, and you will hear it back in your own language, like the Babel fish in Hitchhiker's Guide...It is already happening
    No need. We'll all be speaking French by then :smile: .

    Though to be fair to Brussels, they brought in English in alongside French as a language for Top People a lot quicker than we did.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    Sorry, but there is a fundamental difference. There are a lot of "black on black" killings because black communities are often poor and criminality springs from poverty whether black or white. The concern is as to whether US police officers kill black people disproportionately because they are racist. These are two fundamentally different issues. To conflate them is tantamount to saying "oh no bother, "they" kill each other anyway"
    Firstly, I was talking about the UK, not the US. Tbh, I don't give many fucks about what happens in the US. We've got enough of our own issues, no need to import their ones too.

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    Andrew Mitchell just had quite a long word with Sir Lindsay Hoyle at the Speaker's chair.

    Now David Davis has been talking to Speaker Hoyle.

    Mitchell has now brought in a hand-written sheet and handed it to the clerks. Manuscript amendment?


    https://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/1401907155826053125
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    This will be fun:

    Seven months before taking over the EU’s rotating Council presidency, the French government is mulling plans to revive the declining use and visibility of la langue de Molière.

    The French government is earmarking money to offer more French classes to EU civil servants. Officials are contemplating hosting French-language debates featuring the country’s crème de la crème.

    And then there are the meetings.

    During the country’s presidency, French diplomats said all key meetings of the Council of the EU will be conducted in French (with translations available). Notes and minutes will be French-first. Even preparatory meetings will be conducted in French.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/in-2022-make-french-language-great-again-eu-presidency/

    There’s a hidden hypocrisy in France’s forlorn and doomed attempt to regain linguistic supremacy. They say they are fighting English ‘for the sake of all the other languages’, ‘to preserve multilingualism, the linguistic diversity of the world’, yada yada. But when other countries with other languages say, in response, ‘great, can we have more official languages in the EU, not just English French and German’, or ‘how about having several working languages in the ECJ, not just French’, the French respond with horror. ‘No, French is a truly great language’, it’s unique status must be preserved’.

    This has actually happened. eg Italy made these points, and then expressed deep irritation at the French
    Macron went around Africa telling them that if they had more belief, French could become the global language.
    It’s been said that in the next few decades there will only be two languages spoken in the world - English and Chinese. I think Spanish deserves an honourable mention though, and Russian will be not far behind it.
    It is possible there may still be hundreds of languages and you will not need to learn a different one because there will be auto-translate apps that are so good you just need to think of what you need to say and your phone will say it in Mandarin or Swahili or whatever, and you will hear it back in your own language, like the Babel fish in Hitchhiker's Guide...It is already happening
    English is very poorly suited to machine translation because we have so many phrasal verbs with vernacular usage.

    Take in, take out, take up, take down, etc.

    Russian works well. Blyat'.
    We will all learn to speak "machine English"
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,467
    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Dura_Ace said:

    This fucking paint discussion.

    You're just gutted because you've painted your living room Hague Blue and have realised that Leon and half of Britain have done the same thing.
    Decided to look it up. Looks fucking horrible. Looks like the colour German soldiery used to have their tunics. Perhaps "paint your kitchen in F&B Field Grey" doesn't sound so appealing.
    https://www.farrow-ball.com/paint-colours/hague-blue
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.

    However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.

    They must be total hypocrites too, right?
    Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.

    Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.

    I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    Sorry, but there is a fundamental difference. There are a lot of "black on black" killings because black communities are often poor and criminality springs from poverty whether black or white. The concern is as to whether US police officers kill black people disproportionately because they are racist. These are two fundamentally different issues. To conflate them is tantamount to saying "oh no bother, "they" kill each other anyway"
    Firstly, I was talking about the UK, not the US. Tbh, I don't give many fucks about what happens in the US. We've got enough of our own issues, no need to import their ones too.

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
    As I am not black or from an inner city I am probably not well placed to have a strong opinion, but I think you will find though that organised crime is not something that is exclusively black.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    FPT, I just noticed @Kinablu's well argued post saying why the Right won't win the culture wars. Two things that just wanted to highlight:

    1. It's interesting that Kinablu's view is they see a victory for the Right in the culture wars as meaning we get such delights as mandatory statues to slave traders and so on. I can't speak for all but I would see a "victory" as meaning that all are equal and treated equally, and that we are viewed as individuals with our thoughts and ideas, and not that we are pigeon-holed into blocks that are supposed to think the same way, talk the same way etc based on our skin colour, secuality etc.

    2. The idea that the advance of "progressive" ideas is always inevitable is also wrong. The best example of that is the promotion of Adult-Child relationships in the 1970s by the likes of PIE and their supporters. For the 1970s, "wokesters", it was the equivalent of the gender identity arguments of today. Needless to say, the former argument doesn't look so great 40+ years on.

    I would say that most progressive people would sign up wholeheartedly to your number 1 (maybe not all, but then progressives like conservatives are not a monolith). It's a bit like the Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter debate. Progressives say that Black Lives Matter because they think that all lives matter and they want to highlight the injustices that mean that right now some lives matter more than others. They interpret people saying All Lives Matter as an effort to downplay those injustices. Some people who say All Lives Matter may not be doing that, but some certainly are.
    On 2 I would agree. You only need to compare Weimar and Nazi Germany to see that history is not monotonic. Hopefully progressive ideals will win in the end but only if we fight for them.
    Progressive ‘ideals’ really aren’t *winning*. I wish they were in many respects


    The West has stopped advancing, for many reasons, just one is the influence of Muslim immigrants on our culture, which is now palpable. Wokeness and Critical Race Theory are not ‘progressive’, their sinister, relentless focus on skin pigmentation, which apparently trumps all else, would delight any Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The progress in sexual freedom is arguably in reverse, as a new Puritanism takes over, meanwhile those who once fought for women’s rights now fight bitterly about a miniature issue, trans rights, in way that speaks firmly of Decadence and Decline

    Meanwhile across the world the rising power, and civilisation, is China, anti-democratic, patriarchal, tinged with racial supremacism. It supersedes the West, our values are eclipsed

    This is Radio Jeremiad, broadcasting lamentations from my half painted bedroom.
    I am trying to think of a Muslim immigrant who exercises a significant cultural influence, positive or negative, and I can't think of one. Boris Johnson was born abroad and has a partly Muslim heritage, I think he's the closest I can come up with. Who do you have in mind?
    What colour are you painting your room?
    As I say below, see our de facto blasphemy law. You cannot mock Islam. Where did that come from?
    Anything else? (I have no particular yearning to mock Islam so I don't feel the loss of this particular freedom too keenly, although I share your view that in general people should be able to take a bit of gentle ribbing).
    The important question is what colour are you painting your room?
    So you were wrong. Islam HAS had a big influence. The reintroduction of blasphemy laws, de facto, with a possible death penalty at the end, is no small thing. Yet you just laugh it off. Spineless lefty numbskulls like you are the reason the Enlightenment is in reverse

    Bedroom paint: Hague Blue. Bit of a cliche but it really does make wooden furniture, floors, picture frames, look great. I am now tempted to paint all the white emulsion (doors, windows, wardrobe) a rich and scandalous red
    Unless you have just converted a five-storey Bloomsbury house, complete with period fittings and furniture, into a happening and now members' club you have no business going anywhere near Hague Blue.
    I’ll paint my room however I fucking like, if it’s all the same to you.

    I have big Georgian sash windows. Works a treat

    I think I am going for glossy scarlet emulsion. Gulp. Vermeer meets Le Chabanais
    No @Leon you won't. You will get yourself down to Homebase and pick up something eye-catching by Dulux.

    Nothing worse than an uppity bedroom painter.
    You were born in St John’s Wood. North of the park

    UGH
    If it helps I moved out as soon as I realised the error. To Bolton Gardens, if you're counting.
    Too far West, maybe. Almost south of the river!

    I am ashamed to admit I have lived south of the river. But only once. And I do have an excuse. I was incarcerated in Brixton Jail, so it’s not like I had much choice

    Still. South of the river. *Shudders*
    Bolton Gardens "too far West". LOL.

    When I was living on the Old Brompton Road I suggested to a friend of mine we go for a drink near me (The Troubadour, although as a Northie you probably don't know it). He lives in Lowndes Square and demurred, saying it was "so far out".
    To be semi serious, for me the definition of the right location in London (setting class aside) is that you must be a few minutes from serious greenery, and you must be able to walk to the West End

    I’ve never understood the popularity of Notting Hill, for that reason alone. Way too far out, practically Shepherd’s Bush. Nice houses tho

    Why would you want to walk to the West End? For greenery, South of the river is best.
    As someone from East East East London, well borders of Essex and London… I think you all beat me in London area Top Trumps. It’s a khazi
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    FPT, I just noticed @Kinablu's well argued post saying why the Right won't win the culture wars. Two things that just wanted to highlight:

    1. It's interesting that Kinablu's view is they see a victory for the Right in the culture wars as meaning we get such delights as mandatory statues to slave traders and so on. I can't speak for all but I would see a "victory" as meaning that all are equal and treated equally, and that we are viewed as individuals with our thoughts and ideas, and not that we are pigeon-holed into blocks that are supposed to think the same way, talk the same way etc based on our skin colour, secuality etc.

    2. The idea that the advance of "progressive" ideas is always inevitable is also wrong. The best example of that is the promotion of Adult-Child relationships in the 1970s by the likes of PIE and their supporters. For the 1970s, "wokesters", it was the equivalent of the gender identity arguments of today. Needless to say, the former argument doesn't look so great 40+ years on.

    I would say that most progressive people would sign up wholeheartedly to your number 1 (maybe not all, but then progressives like conservatives are not a monolith). It's a bit like the Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter debate. Progressives say that Black Lives Matter because they think that all lives matter and they want to highlight the injustices that mean that right now some lives matter more than others. They interpret people saying All Lives Matter as an effort to downplay those injustices. Some people who say All Lives Matter may not be doing that, but some certainly are.
    On 2 I would agree. You only need to compare Weimar and Nazi Germany to see that history is not monotonic. Hopefully progressive ideals will win in the end but only if we fight for them.
    Progressive ‘ideals’ really aren’t *winning*. I wish they were in many respects


    The West has stopped advancing, for many reasons, just one is the influence of Muslim immigrants on our culture, which is now palpable. Wokeness and Critical Race Theory are not ‘progressive’, their sinister, relentless focus on skin pigmentation, which apparently trumps all else, would delight any Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The progress in sexual freedom is arguably in reverse, as a new Puritanism takes over, meanwhile those who once fought for women’s rights now fight bitterly about a miniature issue, trans rights, in way that speaks firmly of Decadence and Decline

    Meanwhile across the world the rising power, and civilisation, is China, anti-democratic, patriarchal, tinged with racial supremacism. It supersedes the West, our values are eclipsed

    This is Radio Jeremiad, broadcasting lamentations from my half painted bedroom.
    I am trying to think of a Muslim immigrant who exercises a significant cultural influence, positive or negative, and I can't think of one. Boris Johnson was born abroad and has a partly Muslim heritage, I think he's the closest I can come up with. Who do you have in mind?
    What colour are you painting your room?
    As I say below, see our de facto blasphemy law. You cannot mock Islam. Where did that come from?
    Anything else? (I have no particular yearning to mock Islam so I don't feel the loss of this particular freedom too keenly, although I share your view that in general people should be able to take a bit of gentle ribbing).
    The important question is what colour are you painting your room?
    So you were wrong. Islam HAS had a big influence. The reintroduction of blasphemy laws, de facto, with a possible death penalty at the end, is no small thing. Yet you just laugh it off. Spineless lefty numbskulls like you are the reason the Enlightenment is in reverse

    Bedroom paint: Hague Blue. Bit of a cliche but it really does make wooden furniture, floors, picture frames, look great. I am now tempted to paint all the white emulsion (doors, windows, wardrobe) a rich and scandalous red
    Unless you have just converted a five-storey Bloomsbury house, complete with period fittings and furniture, into a happening and now members' club you have no business going anywhere near Hague Blue.
    I’ll paint my room however I fucking like, if it’s all the same to you.

    I have big Georgian sash windows. Works a treat

    I think I am going for glossy scarlet emulsion. Gulp. Vermeer meets Le Chabanais
    No @Leon you won't. You will get yourself down to Homebase and pick up something eye-catching by Dulux.

    Nothing worse than an uppity bedroom painter.
    You were born in St John’s Wood. North of the park

    UGH
    If it helps I moved out as soon as I realised the error. To Bolton Gardens, if you're counting.
    Too far West, maybe. Almost south of the river!

    I am ashamed to admit I have lived south of the river. But only once. And I do have an excuse. I was incarcerated in Brixton Jail, so it’s not like I had much choice

    Still. South of the river. *Shudders*
    Bolton Gardens "too far West". LOL.

    When I was living on the Old Brompton Road I suggested to a friend of mine we go for a drink near me (The Troubadour, although as a Northie you probably don't know it). He lives in Lowndes Square and demurred, saying it was "so far out".
    To be semi serious, for me the definition of the right location in London (setting class aside) is that you must be a few minutes from serious greenery, and you must be able to walk to the West End

    I’ve never understood the popularity of Notting Hill, for that reason alone. Way too far out, practically Shepherd’s Bush. Nice houses tho

    Notting Hill is right next to Kensington Gardens, Hyde Park, and Holland Park how much green do you want short of Hampstead Heath? And meanwhile it's a lovely walk along High St Ken to the West End.

    I think it depends if you are a North Londoner, in which case you can find all you need or want in Hampstead/Primrose Hill, or a West Londoner, in which case it's Notting Hill, etc, always bearing in mind the dictum "Heaven is SW7".
    "SW Heaven", indeed

    I never said Notting Hill lacked greenery (tho it does get a bit bleak and urban the further from Portobello road you go), more that it is really far from Soho, Covent Garden, Mayfair, Bloomsbury, Marylebone, CAMDEN, and even further from the City: the really fun, interesting bits of London

    Of course I understand the law that cities in the northern hemisphere usually get more fashionable the further west you go: because they are upwind of other people's pollution, in prevailing westerly winds

    But that doesn't matter any more, the Smog has gone.

    I wonder if Notting Hill just gentrified early: the 60s, so it had a head start, creating a critical mass of trendy, affluent people. But I am still mystified by friend who pay vast sums of cash for houses in Ladbroke Grove. No doubt they say the same about people in NW1.

    But I can walk to Portland Place in half an hour, through Regent's Park, and very lovely it is
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2021
    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    Or almost killing innocent bystanders in this case. It’s a tragedy, but imagine the factor of increased publicity if the South London gang who shot her had been ‘Acourt Brothers White’ (to continue the Farrow & Ball theme)
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Dura_Ace said:

    This fucking paint discussion.

    You're just gutted because you've painted your living room Hague Blue and have realised that Leon and half of Britain have done the same thing.
    Decided to look it up. Looks fucking horrible. Looks like the colour German soldiery used to have their tunics. Perhaps "paint your kitchen in F&B Field Grey" doesn't sound so appealing.
    https://www.farrow-ball.com/paint-colours/hague-blue
    Still looks like Feldgrau to me. Possibly more "Anthrazitgrau" though looking at it again
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    FPT, I just noticed @Kinablu's well argued post saying why the Right won't win the culture wars. Two things that just wanted to highlight:

    1. It's interesting that Kinablu's view is they see a victory for the Right in the culture wars as meaning we get such delights as mandatory statues to slave traders and so on. I can't speak for all but I would see a "victory" as meaning that all are equal and treated equally, and that we are viewed as individuals with our thoughts and ideas, and not that we are pigeon-holed into blocks that are supposed to think the same way, talk the same way etc based on our skin colour, secuality etc.

    2. The idea that the advance of "progressive" ideas is always inevitable is also wrong. The best example of that is the promotion of Adult-Child relationships in the 1970s by the likes of PIE and their supporters. For the 1970s, "wokesters", it was the equivalent of the gender identity arguments of today. Needless to say, the former argument doesn't look so great 40+ years on.

    I would say that most progressive people would sign up wholeheartedly to your number 1 (maybe not all, but then progressives like conservatives are not a monolith). It's a bit like the Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter debate. Progressives say that Black Lives Matter because they think that all lives matter and they want to highlight the injustices that mean that right now some lives matter more than others. They interpret people saying All Lives Matter as an effort to downplay those injustices. Some people who say All Lives Matter may not be doing that, but some certainly are.
    On 2 I would agree. You only need to compare Weimar and Nazi Germany to see that history is not monotonic. Hopefully progressive ideals will win in the end but only if we fight for them.
    Progressive ‘ideals’ really aren’t *winning*. I wish they were in many respects


    The West has stopped advancing, for many reasons, just one is the influence of Muslim immigrants on our culture, which is now palpable. Wokeness and Critical Race Theory are not ‘progressive’, their sinister, relentless focus on skin pigmentation, which apparently trumps all else, would delight any Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The progress in sexual freedom is arguably in reverse, as a new Puritanism takes over, meanwhile those who once fought for women’s rights now fight bitterly about a miniature issue, trans rights, in way that speaks firmly of Decadence and Decline

    Meanwhile across the world the rising power, and civilisation, is China, anti-democratic, patriarchal, tinged with racial supremacism. It supersedes the West, our values are eclipsed

    This is Radio Jeremiad, broadcasting lamentations from my half painted bedroom.
    I am trying to think of a Muslim immigrant who exercises a significant cultural influence, positive or negative, and I can't think of one. Boris Johnson was born abroad and has a partly Muslim heritage, I think he's the closest I can come up with. Who do you have in mind?
    What colour are you painting your room?
    As I say below, see our de facto blasphemy law. You cannot mock Islam. Where did that come from?
    Anything else? (I have no particular yearning to mock Islam so I don't feel the loss of this particular freedom too keenly, although I share your view that in general people should be able to take a bit of gentle ribbing).
    The important question is what colour are you painting your room?
    So you were wrong. Islam HAS had a big influence. The reintroduction of blasphemy laws, de facto, with a possible death penalty at the end, is no small thing. Yet you just laugh it off. Spineless lefty numbskulls like you are the reason the Enlightenment is in reverse

    Bedroom paint: Hague Blue. Bit of a cliche but it really does make wooden furniture, floors, picture frames, look great. I am now tempted to paint all the white emulsion (doors, windows, wardrobe) a rich and scandalous red
    Unless you have just converted a five-storey Bloomsbury house, complete with period fittings and furniture, into a happening and now members' club you have no business going anywhere near Hague Blue.
    I’ll paint my room however I fucking like, if it’s all the same to you.

    I have big Georgian sash windows. Works a treat

    I think I am going for glossy scarlet emulsion. Gulp. Vermeer meets Le Chabanais
    No @Leon you won't. You will get yourself down to Homebase and pick up something eye-catching by Dulux.

    Nothing worse than an uppity bedroom painter.
    You were born in St John’s Wood. North of the park

    UGH
    If it helps I moved out as soon as I realised the error. To Bolton Gardens, if you're counting.
    Too far West, maybe. Almost south of the river!

    I am ashamed to admit I have lived south of the river. But only once. And I do have an excuse. I was incarcerated in Brixton Jail, so it’s not like I had much choice

    Still. South of the river. *Shudders*
    Bolton Gardens "too far West". LOL.

    When I was living on the Old Brompton Road I suggested to a friend of mine we go for a drink near me (The Troubadour, although as a Northie you probably don't know it). He lives in Lowndes Square and demurred, saying it was "so far out".
    To be semi serious, for me the definition of the right location in London (setting class aside) is that you must be a few minutes from serious greenery, and you must be able to walk to the West End

    I’ve never understood the popularity of Notting Hill, for that reason alone. Way too far out, practically Shepherd’s Bush. Nice houses tho

    Why would you want to walk to the West End? For greenery, South of the river is best.
    Because it has the best restaurants, bars, clubs, theatres, galleries, and shops

    Getting completely rat-faced in a Soho bar, and then walking home through silent Fitzrovia, and the Outer Circle, by the moonlit spleandours of Cumberland Terrace - a sylvan English St Petersburg - is one of the great pleasures in all of urban life
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,467
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.

    However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.

    They must be total hypocrites too, right?
    Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.

    Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.

    I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
    Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.

    Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.

    I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
    The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    edited June 2021
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    FPT, I just noticed @Kinablu's well argued post saying why the Right won't win the culture wars. Two things that just wanted to highlight:

    1. It's interesting that Kinablu's view is they see a victory for the Right in the culture wars as meaning we get such delights as mandatory statues to slave traders and so on. I can't speak for all but I would see a "victory" as meaning that all are equal and treated equally, and that we are viewed as individuals with our thoughts and ideas, and not that we are pigeon-holed into blocks that are supposed to think the same way, talk the same way etc based on our skin colour, secuality etc.

    2. The idea that the advance of "progressive" ideas is always inevitable is also wrong. The best example of that is the promotion of Adult-Child relationships in the 1970s by the likes of PIE and their supporters. For the 1970s, "wokesters", it was the equivalent of the gender identity arguments of today. Needless to say, the former argument doesn't look so great 40+ years on.

    I would say that most progressive people would sign up wholeheartedly to your number 1 (maybe not all, but then progressives like conservatives are not a monolith). It's a bit like the Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter debate. Progressives say that Black Lives Matter because they think that all lives matter and they want to highlight the injustices that mean that right now some lives matter more than others. They interpret people saying All Lives Matter as an effort to downplay those injustices. Some people who say All Lives Matter may not be doing that, but some certainly are.
    On 2 I would agree. You only need to compare Weimar and Nazi Germany to see that history is not monotonic. Hopefully progressive ideals will win in the end but only if we fight for them.
    Progressive ‘ideals’ really aren’t *winning*. I wish they were in many respects


    The West has stopped advancing, for many reasons, just one is the influence of Muslim immigrants on our culture, which is now palpable. Wokeness and Critical Race Theory are not ‘progressive’, their sinister, relentless focus on skin pigmentation, which apparently trumps all else, would delight any Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The progress in sexual freedom is arguably in reverse, as a new Puritanism takes over, meanwhile those who once fought for women’s rights now fight bitterly about a miniature issue, trans rights, in way that speaks firmly of Decadence and Decline

    Meanwhile across the world the rising power, and civilisation, is China, anti-democratic, patriarchal, tinged with racial supremacism. It supersedes the West, our values are eclipsed

    This is Radio Jeremiad, broadcasting lamentations from my half painted bedroom.
    I am trying to think of a Muslim immigrant who exercises a significant cultural influence, positive or negative, and I can't think of one. Boris Johnson was born abroad and has a partly Muslim heritage, I think he's the closest I can come up with. Who do you have in mind?
    What colour are you painting your room?
    As I say below, see our de facto blasphemy law. You cannot mock Islam. Where did that come from?
    Anything else? (I have no particular yearning to mock Islam so I don't feel the loss of this particular freedom too keenly, although I share your view that in general people should be able to take a bit of gentle ribbing).
    The important question is what colour are you painting your room?
    So you were wrong. Islam HAS had a big influence. The reintroduction of blasphemy laws, de facto, with a possible death penalty at the end, is no small thing. Yet you just laugh it off. Spineless lefty numbskulls like you are the reason the Enlightenment is in reverse

    Bedroom paint: Hague Blue. Bit of a cliche but it really does make wooden furniture, floors, picture frames, look great. I am now tempted to paint all the white emulsion (doors, windows, wardrobe) a rich and scandalous red
    Unless you have just converted a five-storey Bloomsbury house, complete with period fittings and furniture, into a happening and now members' club you have no business going anywhere near Hague Blue.
    I’ll paint my room however I fucking like, if it’s all the same to you.

    I have big Georgian sash windows. Works a treat

    I think I am going for glossy scarlet emulsion. Gulp. Vermeer meets Le Chabanais
    No @Leon you won't. You will get yourself down to Homebase and pick up something eye-catching by Dulux.

    Nothing worse than an uppity bedroom painter.
    You were born in St John’s Wood. North of the park

    UGH
    If it helps I moved out as soon as I realised the error. To Bolton Gardens, if you're counting.
    Too far West, maybe. Almost south of the river!

    I am ashamed to admit I have lived south of the river. But only once. And I do have an excuse. I was incarcerated in Brixton Jail, so it’s not like I had much choice

    Still. South of the river. *Shudders*
    Bolton Gardens "too far West". LOL.

    When I was living on the Old Brompton Road I suggested to a friend of mine we go for a drink near me (The Troubadour, although as a Northie you probably don't know it). He lives in Lowndes Square and demurred, saying it was "so far out".
    To be semi serious, for me the definition of the right location in London (setting class aside) is that you must be a few minutes from serious greenery, and you must be able to walk to the West End

    I’ve never understood the popularity of Notting Hill, for that reason alone. Way too far out, practically Shepherd’s Bush. Nice houses tho

    Why would you want to walk to the West End? For greenery, South of the river is best.
    As someone from East East East London, well borders of Essex and London… I think you all beat me in London area Top Trumps. It’s a khazi
    Here in Epping we have access to the biggest forest in London, though yes sterotypically North London is for the intellectuals, West London for the rich and South and East London were for the working class, the poor and immigrants
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    Sorry, but there is a fundamental difference. There are a lot of "black on black" killings because black communities are often poor and criminality springs from poverty whether black or white. The concern is as to whether US police officers kill black people disproportionately because they are racist. These are two fundamentally different issues. To conflate them is tantamount to saying "oh no bother, "they" kill each other anyway"
    Firstly, I was talking about the UK, not the US. Tbh, I don't give many fucks about what happens in the US. We've got enough of our own issues, no need to import their ones too.

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
    As I am not black or from an inner city I am probably not well placed to have a strong opinion, but I think you will find though that organised crime is not something that is exclusively black.
    I'm Asian and grew up on an inner city council estate. While there are some non-black elements to gang violence such as Eastern Europeans, gypsies/travellers and a few Turkish and Asian ones, in London the vast majority of gangs are black. The vast majority of victims of their violence are black and the vast majority of the victims of their criminal grooming are young black teenagers.

    As I said just now, I'm not sure what the solution is here. I'd suggest we could start by actually talking about the problem rather than just ignoring it or blaming white people as BLM do.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,746
    edited June 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election." (emphasis mine)

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B...) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    Amendment not selected
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,100
    Mitchells clause not accepted by Speaker
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Rebels clause not selected.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    This will be fun:

    Seven months before taking over the EU’s rotating Council presidency, the French government is mulling plans to revive the declining use and visibility of la langue de Molière.

    The French government is earmarking money to offer more French classes to EU civil servants. Officials are contemplating hosting French-language debates featuring the country’s crème de la crème.

    And then there are the meetings.

    During the country’s presidency, French diplomats said all key meetings of the Council of the EU will be conducted in French (with translations available). Notes and minutes will be French-first. Even preparatory meetings will be conducted in French.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/in-2022-make-french-language-great-again-eu-presidency/

    There’s a hidden hypocrisy in France’s forlorn and doomed attempt to regain linguistic supremacy. They say they are fighting English ‘for the sake of all the other languages’, ‘to preserve multilingualism, the linguistic diversity of the world’, yada yada. But when other countries with other languages say, in response, ‘great, can we have more official languages in the EU, not just English French and German’, or ‘how about having several working languages in the ECJ, not just French’, the French respond with horror. ‘No, French is a truly great language’, it’s unique status must be preserved’.

    This has actually happened. eg Italy made these points, and then expressed deep irritation at the French
    Macron went around Africa telling them that if they had more belief, French could become the global language.
    It’s been said that in the next few decades there will only be two languages spoken in the world - English and Chinese. I think Spanish deserves an honourable mention though, and Russian will be not far behind it.
    It is possible there may still be hundreds of languages and you will not need to learn a different one because there will be auto-translate apps that are so good you just need to think of what you need to say and your phone will say it in Mandarin or Swahili or whatever, and you will hear it back in your own language, like the Babel fish in Hitchhiker's Guide...It is already happening
    Very true. The latest Google Translate can pretty much hold a basic conversation with my Russian-speaking father in law. My wife is still a much better translator though.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,467

    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
    The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.

    So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.

    Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.

    Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    "Guido Fawkes
    @GuidoFawkes
    ·
    38s
    BREAKING: Hoyle Not Calling Foreign Aid Amendment https://order-order.com/2021/06/07/breaking-hoyle-not-calling-foreign-aid-amendment"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited June 2021
    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election."

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    The Green Party is doing OK, but it needs opposing

    I might start The Hague Blue Party, dedicated to raising global temperatures by making bedrooms sexier
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585

    Mitchells clause not accepted by Speaker

    I bet Bercow would have accepted it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Speaker says expects Govt to allow debate on 0.7% GNI - now accepting Point of Order from Andrew Mitchell.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2021

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.

    However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.

    They must be total hypocrites too, right?
    Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.

    Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.

    I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
    Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.

    Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.

    I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
    I think taking the knee is most interesting because it shows the gap between corporate/global/twitter football product, and the fans. Perfectly illustrated because no fans were there for a season, an ideal experiment.

    I reckon it has made a point though, people will be more aware. Before BLM got big, Michael Portillo did a series on the Empire, that was quite critical of Britain, and it made me much more sympathetic to the people we colonised, not that I was unsympathetic before. BLM did make me think ‘oh fuck off’’ though, I suppose it’s the difference between being shown and being told
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,779
    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election." (emphasis mine)

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B...) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    I think (although IANAE) that I = Intersex; Q = Questioning; A = Asexual
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited June 2021
    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election." (emphasis mine)

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B...) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    You're behind the times. The acronym du jour is

    LBGTQIAPK

    I kid thee not

    https://americanaddictioncenters.org/lgbtqiapk-addiction

    I've been told you can use it in everyday conversation. It is pronounced

    "Leberrgurteeeqooeeeaaaperkuh!"

    So it's quite easy to just slip it in
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,164
    edited June 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    FPT, I just noticed @Kinablu's well argued post saying why the Right won't win the culture wars. Two things that just wanted to highlight:

    1. It's interesting that Kinablu's view is they see a victory for the Right in the culture wars as meaning we get such delights as mandatory statues to slave traders and so on. I can't speak for all but I would see a "victory" as meaning that all are equal and treated equally, and that we are viewed as individuals with our thoughts and ideas, and not that we are pigeon-holed into blocks that are supposed to think the same way, talk the same way etc based on our skin colour, secuality etc.

    2. The idea that the advance of "progressive" ideas is always inevitable is also wrong. The best example of that is the promotion of Adult-Child relationships in the 1970s by the likes of PIE and their supporters. For the 1970s, "wokesters", it was the equivalent of the gender identity arguments of today. Needless to say, the former argument doesn't look so great 40+ years on.

    I would say that most progressive people would sign up wholeheartedly to your number 1 (maybe not all, but then progressives like conservatives are not a monolith). It's a bit like the Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter debate. Progressives say that Black Lives Matter because they think that all lives matter and they want to highlight the injustices that mean that right now some lives matter more than others. They interpret people saying All Lives Matter as an effort to downplay those injustices. Some people who say All Lives Matter may not be doing that, but some certainly are.
    On 2 I would agree. You only need to compare Weimar and Nazi Germany to see that history is not monotonic. Hopefully progressive ideals will win in the end but only if we fight for them.
    Progressive ‘ideals’ really aren’t *winning*. I wish they were in many respects


    The West has stopped advancing, for many reasons, just one is the influence of Muslim immigrants on our culture, which is now palpable. Wokeness and Critical Race Theory are not ‘progressive’, their sinister, relentless focus on skin pigmentation, which apparently trumps all else, would delight any Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The progress in sexual freedom is arguably in reverse, as a new Puritanism takes over, meanwhile those who once fought for women’s rights now fight bitterly about a miniature issue, trans rights, in way that speaks firmly of Decadence and Decline

    Meanwhile across the world the rising power, and civilisation, is China, anti-democratic, patriarchal, tinged with racial supremacism. It supersedes the West, our values are eclipsed

    This is Radio Jeremiad, broadcasting lamentations from my half painted bedroom.
    I am trying to think of a Muslim immigrant who exercises a significant cultural influence, positive or negative, and I can't think of one. Boris Johnson was born abroad and has a partly Muslim heritage, I think he's the closest I can come up with. Who do you have in mind?
    What colour are you painting your room?
    As I say below, see our de facto blasphemy law. You cannot mock Islam. Where did that come from?
    Anything else? (I have no particular yearning to mock Islam so I don't feel the loss of this particular freedom too keenly, although I share your view that in general people should be able to take a bit of gentle ribbing).
    The important question is what colour are you painting your room?
    So you were wrong. Islam HAS had a big influence. The reintroduction of blasphemy laws, de facto, with a possible death penalty at the end, is no small thing. Yet you just laugh it off. Spineless lefty numbskulls like you are the reason the Enlightenment is in reverse

    Bedroom paint: Hague Blue. Bit of a cliche but it really does make wooden furniture, floors, picture frames, look great. I am now tempted to paint all the white emulsion (doors, windows, wardrobe) a rich and scandalous red
    Unless you have just converted a five-storey Bloomsbury house, complete with period fittings and furniture, into a happening and now members' club you have no business going anywhere near Hague Blue.
    I’ll paint my room however I fucking like, if it’s all the same to you.

    I have big Georgian sash windows. Works a treat

    I think I am going for glossy scarlet emulsion. Gulp. Vermeer meets Le Chabanais
    No @Leon you won't. You will get yourself down to Homebase and pick up something eye-catching by Dulux.

    Nothing worse than an uppity bedroom painter.
    You were born in St John’s Wood. North of the park

    UGH
    If it helps I moved out as soon as I realised the error. To Bolton Gardens, if you're counting.
    Too far West, maybe. Almost south of the river!

    I am ashamed to admit I have lived south of the river. But only once. And I do have an excuse. I was incarcerated in Brixton Jail, so it’s not like I had much choice

    Still. South of the river. *Shudders*
    Bolton Gardens "too far West". LOL.

    When I was living on the Old Brompton Road I suggested to a friend of mine we go for a drink near me (The Troubadour, although as a Northie you probably don't know it). He lives in Lowndes Square and demurred, saying it was "so far out".
    To be semi serious, for me the definition of the right location in London (setting class aside) is that you must be a few minutes from serious greenery, and you must be able to walk to the West End

    I’ve never understood the popularity of Notting Hill, for that reason alone. Way too far out, practically Shepherd’s Bush. Nice houses tho

    Why would you want to walk to the West End? For greenery, South of the river is best.
    Because it has the best restaurants, bars, clubs, theatres, galleries, and shops

    Getting completely rat-faced in a Soho bar, and then walking home through silent Fitzrovia, and the Outer Circle, by the moonlit spleandours of Cumberland Terrace - a sylvan English St Petersburg - is one of the great pleasures in all of urban life
    This reminds me slightly of a shaft of a 1980's cocaine-and-decadence version of Raskolnikov's nighttime trips, or a touch of The Great Gatsby.

    You may also enjoy Walter Benjamin's The Arcades Project, which is one of the most interesting pieces of city literature ever written.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    tlg86 said:

    On vaccine numbers, it's interesting that the media don't seem to be talking about them whatsoever. When they talk about data not dates, they're obsessed with the virus case numbers, when actually they should be just as interested in how many jabs have been administered.

    If the government decide to delay the next stage on the basis that the number of jabs isn't what they want it to be, then I'd be fine with that. If they said once we hit x number of 1st/2nd doses (maybe plus three weeks or whatever), then we can open everything up, then that would seem sensible.

    Problem is that the case numbers are being driven by school children who aren’t being jabbed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    edited June 2021
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election." (emphasis mine)

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B...) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    You're behind the times. The acronym du jour is

    LBGTQIAPK

    I kid thee not

    https://americanaddictioncenters.org/lgbtqiapk-addiction

    I've been told you can use it in everyday conversation. It is pronounced

    "Leberrgurteeeqooeeeaaaperkuh!"

    So it's quite easy to just slip it in
    Don't forget the old kinksters....

    NOFX - F##k Euphemism
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW-UYA_GDWU
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,217
    edited June 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Could he open the bowling for England instead?
    Rugby man. Sorry. :smile:

    Bradford Bulls, no less.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election."

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    The Green Party is doing OK, but it needs opposing

    I might start The Hague Blue Party, dedicated to raising global temperatures by making bedrooms sexier
    Phwoarrr! Or a bit of a ten Pinter?


  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Speaker says will accept motion for Emergency Debate tomorrow.

    Such a refreshing change from Bercow - sticking to the rules & precedent, but finding a way to let the house to have its say.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,000
    Lindsay Hoyle, Commons Speaker, says Commons should be given an opportunity for a decisive vote on maintaining the 0.7% target

    He says that the House should be allowed to formally take an effective decision

    He says he will consider SO24 applications enabling an emergency debate

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1401912301880496130
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595
    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    The US also has a problem with black on Asian racism, but it’s very seldom mentioned by those who loudly decry racism when it’s white on black.

    https://dailycaller.com/2021/04/01/the-media-blame-attacks-asian-americans-white-supremacy/
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,467
    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.

    However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.

    They must be total hypocrites too, right?
    Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.

    Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.

    I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
    Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.

    Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.

    I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
    I think taking the knee is most interesting because it shows the gap between corporate/global/twitter football product, and the fans. Perfectly illustrated because no fans were there for a season, an ideal experiment.

    I reckon it has made a point though, people will be more aware. Before BLM got big, Michael Portillo did a series on the Empire, that was quite critical of Britain, and it made me much more sympathetic to the people we colonised, not that I was unsympathetic before. BLM did make me think ‘oh fuck off’’ though, I suppose it’s the difference between being shown and being told
    Plenty of football fans support the taking of the knee or are indifferent to it. I am in the latter group.

    If you interpret it as "being told" then that says something about you. Just because someone does X, that doesn't mean they're saying you should do X too. They are merely asking you to respect their right to do X.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election." (emphasis mine)

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B...) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    Ambiguous? My wife went on some sexual preference sensitivity training (perhaps more appropriate for her than most, as she does work in operating rooms), but was baffled how there could be 17 different sexes. Personally, I am fine with anyone choosing whatever sexual term to describe themselves they want, but I really can't be arsed to learn all but the most common.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election."

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    The Green Party is doing OK, but it needs opposing

    I might start The Hague Blue Party, dedicated to raising global temperatures by making bedrooms sexier
    Phwoarrr! Or a bit of a ten Pinter?


    From the days when William Hague was considered on the right of the party
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,217
    edited June 2021
    Lennon said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election." (emphasis mine)

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B...) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    I think (although IANAE) that I = Intersex; Q = Questioning; A = Asexual
    Q = Queer.

    Unless the kaleidoscope has moved again.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,746
    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election."

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    The Green Party is doing OK, but it needs opposing

    I might start The Hague Blue Party, dedicated to raising global temperatures by making bedrooms sexier
    After a poor showing in the polls, its embattled leader addresses the nation: "This stone-cold sex toy maker is here to stay - and he's turning up the temperature! [leer to camera]"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election." (emphasis mine)

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B...) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    You're behind the times. The acronym du jour is

    LBGTQIAPK

    I kid thee not

    https://americanaddictioncenters.org/lgbtqiapk-addiction

    I've been told you can use it in everyday conversation. It is pronounced

    "Leberrgurteeeqooeeeaaaperkuh!"

    So it's quite easy to just slip it in
    Don't forget the old kinksters....

    NOFX - F##k Euphemism
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW-UYA_GDWU
    They put the "kuh" in Leberrgurteeeqooeeeaaaperkuh!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited June 2021
    England 25-29 to be invited for jab from tomorrow. Hancock HoC
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election." (emphasis mine)

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B...) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    A is for asexual.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
    The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.

    So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.

    Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.

    Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
    We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world.
    Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    This will be fun:

    Seven months before taking over the EU’s rotating Council presidency, the French government is mulling plans to revive the declining use and visibility of la langue de Molière.

    The French government is earmarking money to offer more French classes to EU civil servants. Officials are contemplating hosting French-language debates featuring the country’s crème de la crème.

    And then there are the meetings.

    During the country’s presidency, French diplomats said all key meetings of the Council of the EU will be conducted in French (with translations available). Notes and minutes will be French-first. Even preparatory meetings will be conducted in French.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/in-2022-make-french-language-great-again-eu-presidency/

    There’s a hidden hypocrisy in France’s forlorn and doomed attempt to regain linguistic supremacy. They say they are fighting English ‘for the sake of all the other languages’, ‘to preserve multilingualism, the linguistic diversity of the world’, yada yada. But when other countries with other languages say, in response, ‘great, can we have more official languages in the EU, not just English French and German’, or ‘how about having several working languages in the ECJ, not just French’, the French respond with horror. ‘No, French is a truly great language’, it’s unique status must be preserved’.

    This has actually happened. eg Italy made these points, and then expressed deep irritation at the French
    Macron went around Africa telling them that if they had more belief, French could become the global language.
    It’s been said that in the next few decades there will only be two languages spoken in the world - English and Chinese. I think Spanish deserves an honourable mention though, and Russian will be not far behind it.
    It is possible there may still be hundreds of languages and you will not need to learn a different one because there will be auto-translate apps that are so good you just need to think of what you need to say and your phone will say it in Mandarin or Swahili or whatever, and you will hear it back in your own language, like the Babel fish in Hitchhiker's Guide...It is already happening
    I've never been quite sure, is 'Babel' pronounced to rhyme with 'label', or is it rhyming with 'babble' as a nod to the crap everyone speaks much of the time (me very much included)? I suppose the latter very much fits the tone of Adams' writing, but in my head I always pronounce it rhyming with label.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585

    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
    The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.

    So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.

    Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.

    Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
    How does taking a knee solve the problems of policing in the USA?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    FPT, I just noticed @Kinablu's well argued post saying why the Right won't win the culture wars. Two things that just wanted to highlight:

    1. It's interesting that Kinablu's view is they see a victory for the Right in the culture wars as meaning we get such delights as mandatory statues to slave traders and so on. I can't speak for all but I would see a "victory" as meaning that all are equal and treated equally, and that we are viewed as individuals with our thoughts and ideas, and not that we are pigeon-holed into blocks that are supposed to think the same way, talk the same way etc based on our skin colour, secuality etc.

    2. The idea that the advance of "progressive" ideas is always inevitable is also wrong. The best example of that is the promotion of Adult-Child relationships in the 1970s by the likes of PIE and their supporters. For the 1970s, "wokesters", it was the equivalent of the gender identity arguments of today. Needless to say, the former argument doesn't look so great 40+ years on.

    I would say that most progressive people would sign up wholeheartedly to your number 1 (maybe not all, but then progressives like conservatives are not a monolith). It's a bit like the Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter debate. Progressives say that Black Lives Matter because they think that all lives matter and they want to highlight the injustices that mean that right now some lives matter more than others. They interpret people saying All Lives Matter as an effort to downplay those injustices. Some people who say All Lives Matter may not be doing that, but some certainly are.
    On 2 I would agree. You only need to compare Weimar and Nazi Germany to see that history is not monotonic. Hopefully progressive ideals will win in the end but only if we fight for them.
    Progressive ‘ideals’ really aren’t *winning*. I wish they were in many respects


    The West has stopped advancing, for many reasons, just one is the influence of Muslim immigrants on our culture, which is now palpable. Wokeness and Critical Race Theory are not ‘progressive’, their sinister, relentless focus on skin pigmentation, which apparently trumps all else, would delight any Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The progress in sexual freedom is arguably in reverse, as a new Puritanism takes over, meanwhile those who once fought for women’s rights now fight bitterly about a miniature issue, trans rights, in way that speaks firmly of Decadence and Decline

    Meanwhile across the world the rising power, and civilisation, is China, anti-democratic, patriarchal, tinged with racial supremacism. It supersedes the West, our values are eclipsed

    This is Radio Jeremiad, broadcasting lamentations from my half painted bedroom.
    I am trying to think of a Muslim immigrant who exercises a significant cultural influence, positive or negative, and I can't think of one. Boris Johnson was born abroad and has a partly Muslim heritage, I think he's the closest I can come up with. Who do you have in mind?
    What colour are you painting your room?
    As I say below, see our de facto blasphemy law. You cannot mock Islam. Where did that come from?
    Anything else? (I have no particular yearning to mock Islam so I don't feel the loss of this particular freedom too keenly, although I share your view that in general people should be able to take a bit of gentle ribbing).
    The important question is what colour are you painting your room?
    So you were wrong. Islam HAS had a big influence. The reintroduction of blasphemy laws, de facto, with a possible death penalty at the end, is no small thing. Yet you just laugh it off. Spineless lefty numbskulls like you are the reason the Enlightenment is in reverse

    Bedroom paint: Hague Blue. Bit of a cliche but it really does make wooden furniture, floors, picture frames, look great. I am now tempted to paint all the white emulsion (doors, windows, wardrobe) a rich and scandalous red
    Unless you have just converted a five-storey Bloomsbury house, complete with period fittings and furniture, into a happening and now members' club you have no business going anywhere near Hague Blue.
    I’ll paint my room however I fucking like, if it’s all the same to you.

    I have big Georgian sash windows. Works a treat

    I think I am going for glossy scarlet emulsion. Gulp. Vermeer meets Le Chabanais
    No @Leon you won't. You will get yourself down to Homebase and pick up something eye-catching by Dulux.

    Nothing worse than an uppity bedroom painter.
    You were born in St John’s Wood. North of the park

    UGH
    If it helps I moved out as soon as I realised the error. To Bolton Gardens, if you're counting.
    Too far West, maybe. Almost south of the river!

    I am ashamed to admit I have lived south of the river. But only once. And I do have an excuse. I was incarcerated in Brixton Jail, so it’s not like I had much choice

    Still. South of the river. *Shudders*
    Bolton Gardens "too far West". LOL.

    When I was living on the Old Brompton Road I suggested to a friend of mine we go for a drink near me (The Troubadour, although as a Northie you probably don't know it). He lives in Lowndes Square and demurred, saying it was "so far out".
    To be semi serious, for me the definition of the right location in London (setting class aside) is that you must be a few minutes from serious greenery, and you must be able to walk to the West End

    I’ve never understood the popularity of Notting Hill, for that reason alone. Way too far out, practically Shepherd’s Bush. Nice houses tho

    Why would you want to walk to the West End? For greenery, South of the river is best.
    As someone from East East East London, well borders of Essex and London… I think you all beat me in London area Top Trumps. It’s a khazi
    Here in Epping we have access to the biggest forest in London, though yes sterotypically North London is for the intellectuals, West London for the rich and South and East London were for the working class, the poor and immigrants
    Yeah Epping’s alright, I guess I don’t see it as East London really, more Essex, rightly or wrongly
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,746
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election."

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    The Green Party is doing OK, but it needs opposing

    I might start The Hague Blue Party, dedicated to raising global temperatures by making bedrooms sexier
    Phwoarrr! Or a bit of a ten Pinter?


    14 pints, I think :wink:
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Mitchell claimed that if Clause had been debated it would have had a majority of "at least 9"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Leberrgurteeeqooeeeaaaperkuh!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,100

    Mitchell claimed that if Clause had been debated it would have had a majority of "at least 9"

    He cannot possibly know that
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    This will be fun:

    Seven months before taking over the EU’s rotating Council presidency, the French government is mulling plans to revive the declining use and visibility of la langue de Molière.

    The French government is earmarking money to offer more French classes to EU civil servants. Officials are contemplating hosting French-language debates featuring the country’s crème de la crème.

    And then there are the meetings.

    During the country’s presidency, French diplomats said all key meetings of the Council of the EU will be conducted in French (with translations available). Notes and minutes will be French-first. Even preparatory meetings will be conducted in French.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/in-2022-make-french-language-great-again-eu-presidency/

    There’s a hidden hypocrisy in France’s forlorn and doomed attempt to regain linguistic supremacy. They say they are fighting English ‘for the sake of all the other languages’, ‘to preserve multilingualism, the linguistic diversity of the world’, yada yada. But when other countries with other languages say, in response, ‘great, can we have more official languages in the EU, not just English French and German’, or ‘how about having several working languages in the ECJ, not just French’, the French respond with horror. ‘No, French is a truly great language’, it’s unique status must be preserved’.

    This has actually happened. eg Italy made these points, and then expressed deep irritation at the French
    Macron went around Africa telling them that if they had more belief, French could become the global language.
    It’s been said that in the next few decades there will only be two languages spoken in the world - English and Chinese. I think Spanish deserves an honourable mention though, and Russian will be not far behind it.
    It is possible there may still be hundreds of languages and you will not need to learn a different one because there will be auto-translate apps that are so good you just need to think of what you need to say and your phone will say it in Mandarin or Swahili or whatever, and you will hear it back in your own language, like the Babel fish in Hitchhiker's Guide...It is already happening
    I've never been quite sure, is 'Babel' pronounced to rhyme with 'label', or is it rhyming with 'babble' as a nod to the crap everyone speaks much of the time (me very much included)? I suppose the latter very much fits the tone of Adams' writing, but in my head I always pronounce it rhyming with label.
    The chappy that read it on the audio version I listened to pronounced it as in rhyming with label, but then I had just swallowed one and he was actually speaking in Mongolian, or perhaps Zog, I can't recall.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2021

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.

    However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.

    They must be total hypocrites too, right?
    Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.

    Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.

    I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
    Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.

    Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.

    I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
    I think taking the knee is most interesting because it shows the gap between corporate/global/twitter football product, and the fans. Perfectly illustrated because no fans were there for a season, an ideal experiment.

    I reckon it has made a point though, people will be more aware. Before BLM got big, Michael Portillo did a series on the Empire, that was quite critical of Britain, and it made me much more sympathetic to the people we colonised, not that I was unsympathetic before. BLM did make me think ‘oh fuck off’’ though, I suppose it’s the difference between being shown and being told
    Plenty of football fans support the taking of the knee or are indifferent to it. I am in the latter group.

    If you interpret it as "being told" then that says something about you. Just because someone does X, that doesn't mean they're saying you should do X too. They are merely asking you to respect their right to do X.
    I meant smashing up statues and rioting more than taking the knee. But as you frame it that way, why can’t they respect the crowds right to boo? They pay their very nice wages

    Haha what does it say about me?!?! 🤣
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,467

    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
    The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.

    So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.

    Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.

    Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
    We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world.
    Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
    Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.

    If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.

    If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,467
    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
    The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.

    So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.

    Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.

    Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
    How does taking a knee solve the problems of policing in the USA?
    It doesn't. Nobody says it does. That isn't a reason to froth with rage.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited June 2021
    Hancock -

    12,383 Delta variant identified:
    464 - presented at Emergency Care
    126 - hospitalised, of these:
    - 83 - unvaccinated
    - 28 - 1 dose
    - 3 - 2 doses
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,467
    isam said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.

    However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.

    They must be total hypocrites too, right?
    Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.

    Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.

    I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
    Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.

    Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.

    I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
    I think taking the knee is most interesting because it shows the gap between corporate/global/twitter football product, and the fans. Perfectly illustrated because no fans were there for a season, an ideal experiment.

    I reckon it has made a point though, people will be more aware. Before BLM got big, Michael Portillo did a series on the Empire, that was quite critical of Britain, and it made me much more sympathetic to the people we colonised, not that I was unsympathetic before. BLM did make me think ‘oh fuck off’’ though, I suppose it’s the difference between being shown and being told
    Plenty of football fans support the taking of the knee or are indifferent to it. I am in the latter group.

    If you interpret it as "being told" then that says something about you. Just because someone does X, that doesn't mean they're saying you should do X too. They are merely asking you to respect their right to do X.
    I meant smashing up statues and rioting more than taking the knee. But as you frame it that way, why can’t they respect the crowds right to boo? They pay their very nice wages
    Some people in the crowds are free to boo if they like and we are free to call them the dickheads that they are.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,746
    dixiedean said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election." (emphasis mine)

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B...) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    A is for asexual.
    The teaching of the alphabet has changed a little since I was at school!

    Seriously, thanks - that makes sense. The others it seems I had guessed more or less correctly.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
    The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.

    So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.

    Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.

    Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
    We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world.
    Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
    Blimey, how difficult is this? Black men don't kill black men BECAUSE they are black.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428

    England 25-29 to be invited for jab from tomorrow. Hancock HoC

    So presumably try the website NOW if you are in this age range (unlikely on here, I know!)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201

    Hancock -

    12,383 Delta variant identified:
    464 - presented at Emergency Care
    126 - hospitalised, of these:
    - 83 - unvaccinated
    - 28 - 1 dose
    - 3 - 2 doses

    Huge protection against hospitalisation from 2 doses.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    FPT, I just noticed @Kinablu's well argued post saying why the Right won't win the culture wars. Two things that just wanted to highlight:

    1. It's interesting that Kinablu's view is they see a victory for the Right in the culture wars as meaning we get such delights as mandatory statues to slave traders and so on. I can't speak for all but I would see a "victory" as meaning that all are equal and treated equally, and that we are viewed as individuals with our thoughts and ideas, and not that we are pigeon-holed into blocks that are supposed to think the same way, talk the same way etc based on our skin colour, secuality etc.

    2. The idea that the advance of "progressive" ideas is always inevitable is also wrong. The best example of that is the promotion of Adult-Child relationships in the 1970s by the likes of PIE and their supporters. For the 1970s, "wokesters", it was the equivalent of the gender identity arguments of today. Needless to say, the former argument doesn't look so great 40+ years on.

    I would say that most progressive people would sign up wholeheartedly to your number 1 (maybe not all, but then progressives like conservatives are not a monolith). It's a bit like the Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter debate. Progressives say that Black Lives Matter because they think that all lives matter and they want to highlight the injustices that mean that right now some lives matter more than others. They interpret people saying All Lives Matter as an effort to downplay those injustices. Some people who say All Lives Matter may not be doing that, but some certainly are.
    On 2 I would agree. You only need to compare Weimar and Nazi Germany to see that history is not monotonic. Hopefully progressive ideals will win in the end but only if we fight for them.
    Progressive ‘ideals’ really aren’t *winning*. I wish they were in many respects


    The West has stopped advancing, for many reasons, just one is the influence of Muslim immigrants on our culture, which is now palpable. Wokeness and Critical Race Theory are not ‘progressive’, their sinister, relentless focus on skin pigmentation, which apparently trumps all else, would delight any Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The progress in sexual freedom is arguably in reverse, as a new Puritanism takes over, meanwhile those who once fought for women’s rights now fight bitterly about a miniature issue, trans rights, in way that speaks firmly of Decadence and Decline

    Meanwhile across the world the rising power, and civilisation, is China, anti-democratic, patriarchal, tinged with racial supremacism. It supersedes the West, our values are eclipsed

    This is Radio Jeremiad, broadcasting lamentations from my half painted bedroom.
    I am trying to think of a Muslim immigrant who exercises a significant cultural influence, positive or negative, and I can't think of one. Boris Johnson was born abroad and has a partly Muslim heritage, I think he's the closest I can come up with. Who do you have in mind?
    What colour are you painting your room?
    As I say below, see our de facto blasphemy law. You cannot mock Islam. Where did that come from?
    Anything else? (I have no particular yearning to mock Islam so I don't feel the loss of this particular freedom too keenly, although I share your view that in general people should be able to take a bit of gentle ribbing).
    The important question is what colour are you painting your room?
    So you were wrong. Islam HAS had a big influence. The reintroduction of blasphemy laws, de facto, with a possible death penalty at the end, is no small thing. Yet you just laugh it off. Spineless lefty numbskulls like you are the reason the Enlightenment is in reverse

    Bedroom paint: Hague Blue. Bit of a cliche but it really does make wooden furniture, floors, picture frames, look great. I am now tempted to paint all the white emulsion (doors, windows, wardrobe) a rich and scandalous red
    Unless you have just converted a five-storey Bloomsbury house, complete with period fittings and furniture, into a happening and now members' club you have no business going anywhere near Hague Blue.
    I’ll paint my room however I fucking like, if it’s all the same to you.

    I have big Georgian sash windows. Works a treat

    I think I am going for glossy scarlet emulsion. Gulp. Vermeer meets Le Chabanais
    No @Leon you won't. You will get yourself down to Homebase and pick up something eye-catching by Dulux.

    Nothing worse than an uppity bedroom painter.
    You were born in St John’s Wood. North of the park

    UGH
    If it helps I moved out as soon as I realised the error. To Bolton Gardens, if you're counting.
    Too far West, maybe. Almost south of the river!

    I am ashamed to admit I have lived south of the river. But only once. And I do have an excuse. I was incarcerated in Brixton Jail, so it’s not like I had much choice

    Still. South of the river. *Shudders*
    Bolton Gardens "too far West". LOL.

    When I was living on the Old Brompton Road I suggested to a friend of mine we go for a drink near me (The Troubadour, although as a Northie you probably don't know it). He lives in Lowndes Square and demurred, saying it was "so far out".
    To be semi serious, for me the definition of the right location in London (setting class aside) is that you must be a few minutes from serious greenery, and you must be able to walk to the West End

    I’ve never understood the popularity of Notting Hill, for that reason alone. Way too far out, practically Shepherd’s Bush. Nice houses tho

    Notting Hill is right next to Kensington Gardens, Hyde Park, and Holland Park how much green do you want short of Hampstead Heath? And meanwhile it's a lovely walk along High St Ken to the West End.

    I think it depends if you are a North Londoner, in which case you can find all you need or want in Hampstead/Primrose Hill, or a West Londoner, in which case it's Notting Hill, etc, always bearing in mind the dictum "Heaven is SW7".
    If your idea of heaven is full of absurdly over-priced shoe-box apartments, terrible traffic, French people and pretentious shops, then I agree you'll find it in South Kensington.

    My cousin used to live there, but finds W8 just as expensive but much more congenial.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.

    However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.

    They must be total hypocrites too, right?
    Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.

    Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.

    I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
    Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.

    Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.

    I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
    I think taking the knee is most interesting because it shows the gap between corporate/global/twitter football product, and the fans. Perfectly illustrated because no fans were there for a season, an ideal experiment.

    I reckon it has made a point though, people will be more aware. Before BLM got big, Michael Portillo did a series on the Empire, that was quite critical of Britain, and it made me much more sympathetic to the people we colonised, not that I was unsympathetic before. BLM did make me think ‘oh fuck off’’ though, I suppose it’s the difference between being shown and being told
    Plenty of football fans support the taking of the knee or are indifferent to it. I am in the latter group.

    If you interpret it as "being told" then that says something about you. Just because someone does X, that doesn't mean they're saying you should do X too. They are merely asking you to respect their right to do X.
    I meant smashing up statues and rioting more than taking the knee. But as you frame it that way, why can’t they respect the crowds right to boo? They pay their very nice wages
    Some people in the crowds are free to boo if they like and we are free to call them the dickheads that they are.
    Yes, well they do and you have. So what’s the problem?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.

    However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.

    They must be total hypocrites too, right?
    Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.

    Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.

    I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
    Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.

    Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.

    I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
    I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.

    I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.

    Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.

    We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.

    The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    England 25-29 to be invited for jab from tomorrow. Hancock HoC

    So presumably try the website NOW if you are in this age range (unlikely on here, I know!)
    Top end of that bracket here and it's not working for me just yet!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,467
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.

    However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.

    They must be total hypocrites too, right?
    Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.

    Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.

    I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
    Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.

    Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.

    I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
    I think taking the knee is most interesting because it shows the gap between corporate/global/twitter football product, and the fans. Perfectly illustrated because no fans were there for a season, an ideal experiment.

    I reckon it has made a point though, people will be more aware. Before BLM got big, Michael Portillo did a series on the Empire, that was quite critical of Britain, and it made me much more sympathetic to the people we colonised, not that I was unsympathetic before. BLM did make me think ‘oh fuck off’’ though, I suppose it’s the difference between being shown and being told
    Plenty of football fans support the taking of the knee or are indifferent to it. I am in the latter group.

    If you interpret it as "being told" then that says something about you. Just because someone does X, that doesn't mean they're saying you should do X too. They are merely asking you to respect their right to do X.
    I meant smashing up statues and rioting more than taking the knee. But as you frame it that way, why can’t they respect the crowds right to boo? They pay their very nice wages
    Some people in the crowds are free to boo if they like and we are free to call them the dickheads that they are.
    Yes, well they do and you have. So what’s the problem?
    You're the ones who think there's a problem.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    edited June 2021

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:

    The Green Party is not fielding a candidate in the Batley & Spen By-election, after their selected candidate was dropped for offensive tweets.

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1401902149412569088

    Tweets from 10 years ago...again...
    From the NE article, quoting Green Party:
    "But, as a party that champions the rights of LGBTIQA+ people and their support communities, we do not feel it is right for Ross to be the party’s candidate for the Batley and Spen by-election."

    I'm all for inclusivity. I'm may be woke, for $deity's sake, even though I dislike the term and some of its better known practitioners. I know L, G, B and T. I can guess I (intersex?), Q (Queer? - although I'm hazy on what that means as opposed to L, G and B) but I'm lost by A. Isn't all that covered in the + anyway? When it gets more confusing than Microsoft's product naming I think we need to stop and take a look at our acronyms for LGBT+.

    Maybe that sentence could work just as well by replacing the alphabet soup with 'all'? I'm not L, G, B, T, I or Q. Maybe I'm A, depending what that means. But if the guy is a homophobe* then I don't want him as green candidate either.

    *Yep, tweets from 10 years ago, so I'm not making a judgement on that point - I haven't even seen the 10 year old tweets.
    The Green Party is doing OK, but it needs opposing

    I might start The Hague Blue Party, dedicated to raising global temperatures by making bedrooms sexier
    Phwoarrr! Or a bit of a ten Pinter?


    From the days when William Hague was considered on the right of the party
    And the Tories only had 166 MPs, 36 fewer even than Labour have now.

    One reason why Tories should not be complacent, the pendulum can turn
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,467
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.

    However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.

    They must be total hypocrites too, right?
    Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.

    Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.

    I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
    Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.

    Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.

    I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
    I just don't think they actually care. Have any of them raised the issue? Have they talked about it in interviews? I haven't seen anything other than blaming gang violence on white people and intersectionality or some other bullshit idea.

    I think you'll find that plenty of people think taking the knee is more than an empty gesture when it is in fact the emptiest of empty gestures. Especially in the UK.

    Non-white people in the UK face a completely different type of adversity than black people in the US. The whole idea of BLM is just ridiculous in a UK context. Police in the UK aren't going around gunning down black men and women.

    We need to talk about serious issues like the glass ceiling in the public sector for Black and Asian people, about discrimination in the job application process, about ensuring that black kids aren't being groomed by gangs to carry out acts of violence and other criminal behaviour.

    The knee is a completely shallow and empty gesture that turns a real and complicated problem for black and other non-white people into something that can now be ignored as woke bullshit because they keep banging on about something that simply isn't an issue in this country - police killing black people - and they won't admit that it's not an issue.
    "black lives matter" is literally apolitical by definition.

    Empty gesture or not, it's still entirely appropriate in a UK context, even if it's not particularly effective at solving anything.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428
    RH1992 said:

    England 25-29 to be invited for jab from tomorrow. Hancock HoC

    So presumably try the website NOW if you are in this age range (unlikely on here, I know!)
    Top end of that bracket here and it's not working for me just yet!
    Keep the faith and try a bit later (maybe this evening?). And #jealous of your problem!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    I'm sure those who take the knee etc are very much supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence.

    However if you want to push this ridiculous point, I don't exactly see the "taking the knee doesn't do anything to address racial injustice crowd" doing much to address black on black violence themselves.

    They must be total hypocrites too, right?
    Do you think so? I don't. I think most people taking the knee just don't want to be seen as racist. I doubt many of them actually care otherwise they'd be using their considerable fame to raise these issues. Instead they do the gesture, hope to go unnoticed and condemn some idiots booing them. There are a few notable exceptions of course.

    Anyway, you brought taking the knee into this, I didn't. I've made it clear time and again my issue with the whole bullshit about taking the knee is it lets everyone off the hook. They take the knee do the gesture and nothing changes but because they took the knee they're off the hook.

    I don't know what the answers are to gang violence, but it doesn't start with taking the knee and it certainly doesn't end there as most people would like to pretend.
    Why wouldn't they be supportive of charities and movements addressing black on black violence? Seems like wishful thinking to me to justify irrational hatred of those who do engage in the black lives matter movement.

    Nobody is saying 'taking the knee' is going to change anything but that isn't a reason to dislike it. The call should be "black lives do matter, so what are you going to do about it", rather than "boo you woke liberal bastards". The former is constructive, the latter is laughable.

    I'm not saying you're the latter, but plenty of people are.
    I think taking the knee is most interesting because it shows the gap between corporate/global/twitter football product, and the fans. Perfectly illustrated because no fans were there for a season, an ideal experiment.

    I reckon it has made a point though, people will be more aware. Before BLM got big, Michael Portillo did a series on the Empire, that was quite critical of Britain, and it made me much more sympathetic to the people we colonised, not that I was unsympathetic before. BLM did make me think ‘oh fuck off’’ though, I suppose it’s the difference between being shown and being told
    Plenty of football fans support the taking of the knee or are indifferent to it. I am in the latter group.

    If you interpret it as "being told" then that says something about you. Just because someone does X, that doesn't mean they're saying you should do X too. They are merely asking you to respect their right to do X.
    I meant smashing up statues and rioting more than taking the knee. But as you frame it that way, why can’t they respect the crowds right to boo? They pay their very nice wages
    Some people in the crowds are free to boo if they like and we are free to call them the dickheads that they are.
    Yes, well they do and you have. So what’s the problem?
    You're the ones who think there's a problem.
    How’s that?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited June 2021

    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
    The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.

    So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.

    Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.

    Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
    We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world.
    Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
    Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.

    If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.

    If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
    The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonises fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.

    They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.

    And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo

    It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,467
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
    The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.

    So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.

    Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.

    Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
    We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world.
    Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
    Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.

    If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.

    If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
    The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.

    They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.

    And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo

    It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
    No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.

    Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    None of the people who attended the party where Sasha was shot have come forward to give a statement to police

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/1401877579057991690?s=20

    Black lives don't matter so much to other blacks - if they get in the way of a drug deal going down....

    Compare and contrast with the number of statements and pieces of footage on YouTube if she had been shot by a white cop. Just sayin'....
    Thats why I hate the Black Lives Matter nonsense. When a black person kills another black person which in this Country is a 1000 times more likely than a black person getting killed by a Police Officer it does not matter.
    There were huge protests about police brutality last year and the taking the knee stuff goes on. Why are there no protests about black kids killing other black kids? That seems to be ok. I just don't get it.
    OK boomer
    Was there something incorrect in what I wrote?
    Literally the whole thing
    Hmm, there's always a deafening silence when one young black man kills another one over gang related issues. It's almost like this is an acceptable crime, which it isn't. There's a hypocrisy within BLM and plenty of other virtue signalling organisations that will shout from the rooftops about perceived racial injustice but do an Arsene Wenger when it comes to black men killing each other in gang related disputes.
    Sorry, but there is a fundamental difference. There are a lot of "black on black" killings because black communities are often poor and criminality springs from poverty whether black or white. The concern is as to whether US police officers kill black people disproportionately because they are racist. These are two fundamentally different issues. To conflate them is tantamount to saying "oh no bother, "they" kill each other anyway"
    Firstly, I was talking about the UK, not the US. Tbh, I don't give many fucks about what happens in the US. We've got enough of our own issues, no need to import their ones too.

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.
    As I am not black or from an inner city I am probably not well placed to have a strong opinion, but I think you will find though that organised crime is not something that is exclusively black.
    I'm Asian and grew up on an inner city council estate. While there are some non-black elements to gang violence such as Eastern Europeans, gypsies/travellers and a few Turkish and Asian ones, in London the vast majority of gangs are black. The vast majority of victims of their violence are black and the vast majority of the victims of their criminal grooming are young black teenagers.

    As I said just now, I'm not sure what the solution is here. I'd suggest we could start by actually talking about the problem rather than just ignoring it or blaming white people as BLM do.
    Many people don't like taking the knee as they see it as sanctimonious, self-indulgent and the thin end of a wedge that ends with CRT, as you suggest.

    It's astonishing we're still debating it after over a year, but we are.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    edited June 2021
    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MrEd said:

    FPT, I just noticed @Kinablu's well argued post saying why the Right won't win the culture wars. Two things that just wanted to highlight:

    1. It's interesting that Kinablu's view is they see a victory for the Right in the culture wars as meaning we get such delights as mandatory statues to slave traders and so on. I can't speak for all but I would see a "victory" as meaning that all are equal and treated equally, and that we are viewed as individuals with our thoughts and ideas, and not that we are pigeon-holed into blocks that are supposed to think the same way, talk the same way etc based on our skin colour, secuality etc.

    2. The idea that the advance of "progressive" ideas is always inevitable is also wrong. The best example of that is the promotion of Adult-Child relationships in the 1970s by the likes of PIE and their supporters. For the 1970s, "wokesters", it was the equivalent of the gender identity arguments of today. Needless to say, the former argument doesn't look so great 40+ years on.

    I would say that most progressive people would sign up wholeheartedly to your number 1 (maybe not all, but then progressives like conservatives are not a monolith). It's a bit like the Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter debate. Progressives say that Black Lives Matter because they think that all lives matter and they want to highlight the injustices that mean that right now some lives matter more than others. They interpret people saying All Lives Matter as an effort to downplay those injustices. Some people who say All Lives Matter may not be doing that, but some certainly are.
    On 2 I would agree. You only need to compare Weimar and Nazi Germany to see that history is not monotonic. Hopefully progressive ideals will win in the end but only if we fight for them.
    Progressive ‘ideals’ really aren’t *winning*. I wish they were in many respects


    The West has stopped advancing, for many reasons, just one is the influence of Muslim immigrants on our culture, which is now palpable. Wokeness and Critical Race Theory are not ‘progressive’, their sinister, relentless focus on skin pigmentation, which apparently trumps all else, would delight any Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The progress in sexual freedom is arguably in reverse, as a new Puritanism takes over, meanwhile those who once fought for women’s rights now fight bitterly about a miniature issue, trans rights, in way that speaks firmly of Decadence and Decline

    Meanwhile across the world the rising power, and civilisation, is China, anti-democratic, patriarchal, tinged with racial supremacism. It supersedes the West, our values are eclipsed

    This is Radio Jeremiad, broadcasting lamentations from my half painted bedroom.
    I am trying to think of a Muslim immigrant who exercises a significant cultural influence, positive or negative, and I can't think of one. Boris Johnson was born abroad and has a partly Muslim heritage, I think he's the closest I can come up with. Who do you have in mind?
    What colour are you painting your room?
    As I say below, see our de facto blasphemy law. You cannot mock Islam. Where did that come from?
    Anything else? (I have no particular yearning to mock Islam so I don't feel the loss of this particular freedom too keenly, although I share your view that in general people should be able to take a bit of gentle ribbing).
    The important question is what colour are you painting your room?
    So you were wrong. Islam HAS had a big influence. The reintroduction of blasphemy laws, de facto, with a possible death penalty at the end, is no small thing. Yet you just laugh it off. Spineless lefty numbskulls like you are the reason the Enlightenment is in reverse

    Bedroom paint: Hague Blue. Bit of a cliche but it really does make wooden furniture, floors, picture frames, look great. I am now tempted to paint all the white emulsion (doors, windows, wardrobe) a rich and scandalous red
    Unless you have just converted a five-storey Bloomsbury house, complete with period fittings and furniture, into a happening and now members' club you have no business going anywhere near Hague Blue.
    I’ll paint my room however I fucking like, if it’s all the same to you.

    I have big Georgian sash windows. Works a treat

    I think I am going for glossy scarlet emulsion. Gulp. Vermeer meets Le Chabanais
    No @Leon you won't. You will get yourself down to Homebase and pick up something eye-catching by Dulux.

    Nothing worse than an uppity bedroom painter.
    You were born in St John’s Wood. North of the park

    UGH
    If it helps I moved out as soon as I realised the error. To Bolton Gardens, if you're counting.
    Too far West, maybe. Almost south of the river!

    I am ashamed to admit I have lived south of the river. But only once. And I do have an excuse. I was incarcerated in Brixton Jail, so it’s not like I had much choice

    Still. South of the river. *Shudders*
    Bolton Gardens "too far West". LOL.

    When I was living on the Old Brompton Road I suggested to a friend of mine we go for a drink near me (The Troubadour, although as a Northie you probably don't know it). He lives in Lowndes Square and demurred, saying it was "so far out".
    To be semi serious, for me the definition of the right location in London (setting class aside) is that you must be a few minutes from serious greenery, and you must be able to walk to the West End

    I’ve never understood the popularity of Notting Hill, for that reason alone. Way too far out, practically Shepherd’s Bush. Nice houses tho

    Why would you want to walk to the West End? For greenery, South of the river is best.
    As someone from East East East London, well borders of Essex and London… I think you all beat me in London area Top Trumps. It’s a khazi
    Here in Epping we have access to the biggest forest in London, though yes sterotypically North London is for the intellectuals, West London for the rich and South and East London were for the working class, the poor and immigrants
    Yeah Epping’s alright, I guess I don’t see it as East London really, more Essex, rightly or wrongly
    Epping Forest again stereotypically is where East Londoners move to if they have made some money but yes it is more Essex than London
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
    The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.

    So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.

    Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.

    Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
    We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world.
    Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
    Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.

    If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.

    If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
    The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.

    They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.

    And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo

    It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
    No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.

    Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
    No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    edited June 2021
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
    The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.

    So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.

    Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.

    Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
    We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world.
    Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
    Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.

    If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.

    If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
    The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonises fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.

    They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.

    And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo

    It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
    Stand up comedy got a similar state with Brexit....I saw Mark Watson a couple of years ago and he literally walked on and said if you came for Brexit jokes, there aren't any, because you guys pay good money for a night out, to escape from the world out there and the last thing for the next 2hrs is a knob like me banging on about it, you have come to be entertained, not lectured.

    He got a massive cheer and this was in a city that massive Remain vote, which I doubt would have disagreed much with a left wing Remain comedian banging on about it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,467
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Secondly, I'm saying the opposite of what you imply. It's a big fucking problem and no one wants to talk about it. In a few years time it will be as big a scandal as the Rotherham and other grooming cases. Young black teenagers are being coerced with cash and drugs to join gangs and take part in violent acts against rival gangs. It's one of the most lamentable parts of modern inner city culture.

    Nobody is disagreeing with you though. It isn't an either/or.
    The point is the chances of a black man getting kiiled by a policeman in the UK are incredibly small. The chances of a black man getting killed by a black man are infinitely higher, its a daily event. Yet the whole BLM is about police killing black men even though it is rarer than a day without a Scott retweet on this site. There is nothing about black men killing black men.

    So? It appears you literally have no idea what the BLM movement is all about.

    Cops kill black people disproportionately in the USA. Taking the knee is a response to that. It literally doesn't matter if the British police don't do that, it is completely irrelevant.

    Maybe you should educate yourself rather than just irrationally and blindly being against something you don't understand.
    We live in the UK. The biggest crime problem here is black men killing black men. Are our footballers taking the knee to complain about the actions of the American Police? We cannot do anything about the American Police as we cant do anything about the dozens of murderous regimes that exist in the world.
    Would it not be better if our footballers were trying to raise the awareness of something that is happening daily in the UK, leading the pointless deaths of hundreds of black kids each year?
    Marcus Rashford, for example, literally led a campaign to feed hungry British children in addition to the BLM protest and he was criticised for that by the same people who hate BLM.

    If footballers want to take the knee, who cares? Our culture is interlinked with the US and has been for a long time. Nobody is saying you have to partake.

    If you think they should focus on other issues too, I would agree with you. But in terms of being role models, being against cops killing black people in the USA is pretty inoffensive.
    The trouble is that "taking the knee" has got to a point where it REALLY antagonising fans. And I don't think the objections are "from racists", it's because fans see sport as a politics-free holiday away from everyday life. Especially football.

    They come to football to escape the sad, fractured, humdrum world, to flee the austerities and violence of reality, to be part of a happy tribe, to see some people do something pointless - but brilliantly. To savour the highs and lows of combat, but in a safe allegorical way.

    And now, when they go to a football match, they get multi-millionaires lecturing them about their racism, in a symbolic gesture that holds up the match. No wonder they boo

    It was fine for a few weeks last summer, emotions were high. They really should stop doing it now. It is going to blight the euro championship, a virtue signalling equivalent of the vuvuzelas in the Saffer World Cup
    No, it antagonises some very sensitive snowflakes. The rest of us either simply do something else whilst they do it, or actively clap.

    Like I said, football fans are free to boo, and we're free to call them the dickheads that they are.
    No, it antagonises the majority of people who don't think sport and politics should mix.
    Weak. Some people just need to get a grip.
    There's plenty more important things to be getting on with than complaining that a bunch of 20 something footballers wish to put their knee into the ground for 30 seconds at the start of every match.

    Let me repeat: being opposed to the state killing black men is not political. It's absolutely ludicrous and completely irrational.
This discussion has been closed.