Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Will the controls all be lifted on June 21st? Now there’s a betting market – politicalbetting.com

1235

Comments

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    GB News is about setting the agenda not making money surely?

    Maybe, but how do they survive without money? £60m is going to last them all of 9 months.
    Its worth noting they're substantially backed by Discovery, which has launched its own streaming service. We have Discovery+ but only because it was free for 12 months with Sky - can't imagine currently paying for it when that 12 month period expires. Though my wife likes it for Discovery's many true crime documentaries.

    The interplay of Discovery and GB News will be interesting. Currently I don't see Discovery+ really taking off in the way Disney+ has.
    Discovery has just merged with Warner Media, the owners of CNN and CNN international. I can't imagine that there is much appetite to have two independent news channels.

    What's interesting is that the new merged company may not renew with Sky which means Sky Atlantic loses all of the HBO content and they push it all through Discovery+ making it a legitimate competitor to D+ and Netflix.
    That would be the only other thing outside of the footy that really drives any subscriptions for Sky. I wouldn't want to have any money in Sky, it is only a matter of time before either the clubs themselves launch EPL+ or they do a deal with a Disney (like the UFC did, where UFC get to earn a s##t tonne and Disney, via EPSN, get some fight cards and points on the PPVs, which they drive by hyping up).

    Then what have they got, nobody gets it for the movies now, no Sky Atlantic, means no top tier US telly and no football, means you pay £100 a month for some golf and cricket.
    Sky Q is a really good technical platform, but we use it most of the time to access the streaming apps - which can be access via the TV's own Smart TV platform nowadays.

    A few years ago after moving house we went a while with streaming platforms only, via a Roku stick, but it was irritating as not all streaming platforms were available on any individual stick at the time. Nowadays all the apps seem to have become universally available on any platform, which drops the incentive of having one major hub to deliver them all if the TV can do it itself natively.

    At some point will have to question whether Sky is worth still paying for any more or not.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    GB News is about setting the agenda not making money surely?

    Maybe, but how do they survive without money? £60m is going to last them all of 9 months.
    Its worth noting they're substantially backed by Discovery, which has launched its own streaming service. We have Discovery+ but only because it was free for 12 months with Sky - can't imagine currently paying for it when that 12 month period expires. Though my wife likes it for Discovery's many true crime documentaries.

    The interplay of Discovery and GB News will be interesting. Currently I don't see Discovery+ really taking off in the way Disney+ has.
    Discovery has just merged with Warner Media, the owners of CNN and CNN international. I can't imagine that there is much appetite to have two independent news channels.

    What's interesting is that the new merged company may not renew with Sky which means Sky Atlantic loses all of the HBO content and they push it all through Discovery+ making it a legitimate competitor to D+ and Netflix.
    That would be the only other thing outside of the footy that really drives any subscriptions for Sky. I wouldn't want to have any money in Sky, it is only a matter of time before either the clubs themselves launch EPL+ or they do a deal with a Disney (like the UFC did, where UFC get to earn a s##t tonne and Disney, via EPSN, get some fight cards and points on the PPVs, which they drive by hyping up).

    Then what have they got, nobody gets it for the movies now, no Sky Atlantic, means no top tier US telly and no football, means you pay £100 a month for some golf and cricket.
    Sky Q is a really good technical platform, but we use it most of the time to access the streaming apps - which can be access via the TV's own Smart TV platform nowadays.

    A few years ago after moving house we went a while with streaming platforms only, via a Roku stick, but it was irritating as not all streaming platforms were available on any individual stick at the time. Nowadays all the apps seem to have become universally available on any platform, which drops the incentive of having one major hub to deliver them all if the TV can do it itself natively.

    At some point will have to question whether Sky is worth still paying for any more or not.
    The interface of FireTV isn't the greatest, but it is all built on Andriod and wouldn't be hard to improve (in fact, if you have some skills you can already do it). These days, a tiny cheap usb size stick is all that is required to have all this work.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    More from @IpsosMORI / @standardnews

    - 43% think Johnson has handled the pandemic well (+1 from April), 39% badly (-7).

    - Net rating of +4 is the first net positive rating the PM has achieved on COVID in our series since June 2020....

    Net economic optimism now stands at +22. Highest since April 2015.

    - 53% expect the economy to improve in the next year. 31% expect it to worsen.


    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1401820548255174659?s=20
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    I love Meghan & Harrys statement about their new baby "She is more than we could have ever imagined"

    What were they imagining?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,176
    From the weekend into early next week looks like a possible mini-heatwave, at least in the south.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021
    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Its a bonkers decision. It screams to me that the ECB are embarrassed they didn't do any checks before they called him up and scrambling to be seen to do something.

    The most ridiculous response was Michael Vaughan saying he needed to go away and think and learn and grow.....as if he had been tweeting this stuff out during the game. If he is still a massive douchebag 10 years after sending those tweets, he ain't going to be changing....but responses from his non-white team mates are he isn't like that at all now.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I love Meghan & Harrys statement about their new baby "She is more than we could have ever imagined"

    What were they imagining?

    I expect almost all parents would say the same.

    Holding a newborn babe is more than you can ever imagine while expecting. ♥
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,476

    Scott_xP said:

    he is a master at finding the story voters want to hear.

    But not, of course, the truth...
    And if voters don't want to hear the truth?
    I don't think there's any "if" about it. We're all human and nearly all of us prefer blithe optimism to grim reality. See the market for fad diets, life hacks et cetera.

    So storytelling is a great strategy until reality can't be ignored any more. And humans, all of us, are surprisingly good at ignoring reality when it suits.

    Hence the dialogue of the deaf between those who think Boris is the Messiah, and those who think Johnson is a very naughty boy.

    But reality always wins in the end.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2021
    --
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Talking of news, this one launches today in the US.

    The two hosts of The Hill’s breakfast show, Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti, have quit to go it alone and web-based. The show will be on YouTube and podcast platforms, and they’re selling $10/month subscriptions to get it early and with some bonus content.

    They had a good reputation for being equal opportunity bashers of politicians, in a sea of hyper-partisan news channels, and have got 200k youtube subscribers before they even launch.

    https://youtube.com/c/breakingpoints/videos

    The last time I checked, 100k Youtube Subscribers was a reasonable living for one person.

    Any idea how the numbers work with a news channel?
    Joe Rogan made a good living from it!

    From memory, a million views pays about a couple of grand (US$) in YT advertising, plus revenue from any ads included in the content, and revenue from subscriptions via sites like Patreon, OnlyFans etc.

    I don’t think GB News will go down the subscriptions route, they’ll want all their content out on the web as soon as it’s produced.

    They’ll have huge costs though, compared to anything purely web-based, maybe £100k/day in labour? Running a full broadcast studio requires quite the team of people, and they’ll have a web team running alongside cutting up clips for YT, social media and podcast platforms. They must have more than 100 people in total.

    A decent quality podcast can run with a handful of people, as opposed to a couple of dozen in a proper studio. Rogan famously has only one producer doing his show, switching cameras and bringing web content to the discussion.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,993

    Non-Independent SAGE pushing vaccinate the 12 year olds....now....

    So are they proposing that we skip vaccinating people 16 to 29 before we do 12 to 15?
    If the media need a counter-view to say that i-SAGE is full of loud-mouthed, attention-seeking innumerates, I can make myself available.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,722

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Its a bonkers decision. It screams to me that the ECB are embarrassed they didn't do any checks before they called him up and scrambling to be seen to do something.

    The most ridiculous response was Michael Vaughan saying he needed to go away and think and learn and grow.....as if he had been tweeting this stuff out during the game. If he is still a massive douchebag 10 years after sending those tweets, he ain't going to be changing....but responses from his non-white team mates are he isn't like that at all now.
    If they had done the checks before, and picked this up, what should they have done?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211
    edited June 2021

    MaxPB said:

    Non-Independent SAGE pushing vaccinate the 12 year olds....now....

    With what vaccines?
    EXACTLY (said in a scouse accent).
    There is a strange idea floating around that there is some ability to get extra vaccine or there is a mysterious stockpile hidden somewhere. There isn't.

    Everyone in the world is trying to get COVID vaccines. Production is increasing, generally, but demand has exceeded production. And will do so for months to come.

    In addition, because of the length of the supply chain, the vaccines for this month and most of next are already on the way.

    By the second half of next month, we will be hitting the issue of take-up - what will the UK ceiling for vaccine take-up be*? The second doses, will not be far behind, since the second doses are curly happening twice as fast as the first.

    So even if there was some way to magic up more vaccine, it would appear *after* the adult population has been vaccinated.

    *The highest take-up in the elderly groups is 96%, nationally (NIMS population estimates). We are unlikely to achieve that across the board.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,247
    Selebian said:

    Politically, there's risk/reward here either way:
    1. Open as planned, we beat (at least most of) Europe on getting life back to normal. No significant third wave, no more lockdowns: all hail Boris
    2. Open as planned. Significant third wave, lockodnw later in the year: Boris the bungler with blood on his hands, people will look again at the earlier cock-ups too
    3. Delay opening, we fall behind (bits of) Europe and they don't have a significant third wave and it's clear we were too cautious: Boris in hock to the mad scientists, vaccine bounce disappears as it all looks a bit pointless if we didn't unlock any quicker
    4 Delay opening, we fall behind (bits of Europe) but those bits of Europe have a big third wave and lock down again late summer/autumn while a short delay here means no more lockdowns: Boris called this one right, good job

    Opening as planned has both the biggest upside and biggest downside, politically. I still think we can open now if we agree (and it's made clear to the country) that the lockdowns were to prevent NHS collapse - if that's not a real risk (it seems unlikely) then we open up. Now does Johnson have the cajones for it?

    I think the before Christmas situation is a bit different - Johnson eventually took the route of lockdown, but well after most scientists were warning about imminent doom (increasing cases, with increasing hospitalisations and very little immunity in the population - different to now!) and even then it was only a partial lockdown of the country.

    I would add a couple of points.

    Firstly the context is very different from the previous lockdowns. No-one is talking repeating a March 2020 or January 2021 lockdown. Vaccines remove the need for that . We're taking about the need to continue with some non medical interventions for a period of time or whether they can be removed entirely.

    Secondly the driver for this is the healthcare system. The NHS was in a poor state going into Covid and is even more fragile now. A relatively modest third wave could cause significant damage, but the public aren't necessarily on top of the issues.

    Good thread on this here:

    https://twitter.com/ChrisCEOHopson/status/1401403305809547269
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    How will the Tories recover from the Cummings debacle?

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 44% (+4)
    LAB: 35% (-2)
    GRN: 7% (+2)
    LDEM: 6% (-2)

    via @IpsosMORI, 28 May - 03 Jun. Chgs. w/ 22 Apr


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1401809290445443079?s=20

    Sir Keir's going to be crying again once he reads that...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    GB News is about setting the agenda not making money surely?

    Maybe, but how do they survive without money? £60m is going to last them all of 9 months.
    Its worth noting they're substantially backed by Discovery, which has launched its own streaming service. We have Discovery+ but only because it was free for 12 months with Sky - can't imagine currently paying for it when that 12 month period expires. Though my wife likes it for Discovery's many true crime documentaries.

    The interplay of Discovery and GB News will be interesting. Currently I don't see Discovery+ really taking off in the way Disney+ has.
    Discovery has just merged with Warner Media, the owners of CNN and CNN international. I can't imagine that there is much appetite to have two independent news channels.

    What's interesting is that the new merged company may not renew with Sky which means Sky Atlantic loses all of the HBO content and they push it all through Discovery+ making it a legitimate competitor to D+ and Netflix.
    That would be the only other thing outside of the footy that really drives any subscriptions for Sky. I wouldn't want to have any money in Sky, it is only a matter of time before either the clubs themselves launch EPL+ or they do a deal with a Disney (like the UFC did, where UFC get to earn a s##t tonne and Disney, via EPSN, get some fight cards and points on the PPVs, which they drive by hyping up).

    Then what have they got, nobody gets it for the movies now, no Sky Atlantic, means no top tier US telly and no football, means you pay £100 a month for some golf and cricket.
    Sky Q is a really good technical platform, but we use it most of the time to access the streaming apps - which can be access via the TV's own Smart TV platform nowadays.

    A few years ago after moving house we went a while with streaming platforms only, via a Roku stick, but it was irritating as not all streaming platforms were available on any individual stick at the time. Nowadays all the apps seem to have become universally available on any platform, which drops the incentive of having one major hub to deliver them all if the TV can do it itself natively.

    At some point will have to question whether Sky is worth still paying for any more or not.
    The F1 forums are all cursing Sky this morning. It appears they still can’t update the EPG properly when a live event overruns, as happened both on Saturday and Sunday.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,972
    "Two U.S. experts have penned a damning essay saying the genome sequencing of COVID-19 strongly suggests that the virus was manufactured inside a Chinese laboratory.

    Dr. Stephen Quay and Richard Muller, a physics professor at the University of California Berkeley, made the claim in The Wall Street Journal on Sunday, amid growing speculation that the coronavirus leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV).

    'The most compelling reason to favor the lab leak hypothesis is firmly based in science,' the experts wrote, stating that 'COVID-19 has a genetic footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus.'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9658851/Genome-sequencing-certainly-proves-COVID-deliberately-lab-experts-claim.html
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,816
    edited June 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    he is a master at finding the story voters want to hear.

    But not, of course, the truth...
    And if voters don't want to hear the truth?
    What the establishment has claimed was 'the truth' include:

    Jimmy Saville was a great person (ditto others)
    There is nothing happening in Rotherham (ditto others)
    There is no problem at Stafford hospital (ditto others)
    There will be no more than 5,000 Eastern European immigrants per year
    Iraq has WMD
    The banks are safe
    We're all in it together
    Kids Company is a deserving charity
    Elections in Tower Hamlets are fair
    Politicians expenses are honest

    and last year

    Covid did not come from a lab
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,722

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Its a bonkers decision. It screams to me that the ECB are embarrassed they didn't do any checks before they called him up and scrambling to be seen to do something.

    The most ridiculous response was Michael Vaughan saying he needed to go away and think and learn and grow.....as if he had been tweeting this stuff out during the game. If he is still a massive douchebag 10 years after sending those tweets, he ain't going to be changing....but responses from his non-white team mates are he isn't like that at all now.
    If they had done the checks before, and picked this up, what should they have done?
    Some clever media management....they got him to do press interviews to a friendly journalist saying he had been a bellend as a youth, and has carefully rebuilt his career. During that, they could have got him to say, there were loads of things I did I totally regret, like a lot of young people, I sent stupid tweets...but now I am a different person, I have grown up, worked hard.

    It was noticeable that they have got Overton to do this, kinda, they had him do an interview with Wisden, where it was clear the interviewer was wanting to push this redemption story and he didn't really play along, instead saying I never said it, my best mate is Asian.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109

    And if voters don't want to hear the truth?

    You end up with Trump, BoZo, Nippy and Brexit
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    And I thought she'd started talking sense:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19354269.covid-vaccinate-high-school-kids-too-late-says-health-expert/

    Of course she doesn't say where these vaccines should come from or who shouldn't get them in order to vaccinate school kids....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,669
    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    It is an absolute disgrace
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2021
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
    Indeed - and he's fighting it like a bloody champion. It's so refreshing to have the Government knocking down woke nonsense on the record and standing with the 80%+ of the electorate who exhibit a normal sense of proportion...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021
    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    Surprised they even acknowledged that....recently they introduce the zero covidian non-independent SAGErs as "leading scientist".
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,816

    How will the Tories recover from the Cummings debacle?

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 44% (+4)
    LAB: 35% (-2)
    GRN: 7% (+2)
    LDEM: 6% (-2)

    via @IpsosMORI, 28 May - 03 Jun. Chgs. w/ 22 Apr


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1401809290445443079?s=20

    I am surprised the government haven't taken a hit for the Portugal Hokey Cokey and rising case numbers*....what we have learned over the past year, the public are willing to accept very strict rules if they are seen to be working and they hate them in / out / shake it all about changes.

    * yes I know here on PB we have a slightly more informed and nuanced view of these.

    ---

    Edit - bulk of polling probably done before I think the above might have had an effect.
    Portugal has upset some people and pleased more.

    Rising covid numbers are viewed as 'ten to a house Asians' or 'dirty Manc grubbers' - meanwhile everyday hundreds of thousands feel happier because they've received a vaccination.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    It is an absolute disgrace
    Due to the unique way it is funded or something, makes it top tier journalism outfit.....
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    --

    Is that meant to be Starmer flatlining? :wink:
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    edited June 2021

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    It is an absolute disgrace
    Due to the unique way it is funded or something, makes it top tier journalism outfit.....
    ;
    ---
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,722

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    No wonder some people take the never apologise, never surrender mentality, when they see somebody been punished (again) for being a total bellend as a teenager, got fired for it and 10 years later had to do a hostage video to apologise again....and then after all that and great performance on debut, they throw him under the bus.
    AIUI he didn't get fired for these tweets. So where's the "again" coming in?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    It is an absolute disgrace
    Why do I get the feeling that GB News won’t be giving “Independent SAGE” much of a hearing?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2021
    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    And all of a sudden the value of GB News becomes clear. Every time the BBC tries on this egregious bias they should lose a million pounds of the licence fee as an on-the-spot fine - and have it transferred to their competitor.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    No wonder some people take the never apologise, never surrender mentality, when they see somebody been punished (again) for being a total bellend as a teenager, got fired for it and 10 years later had to do a hostage video to apologise again....and then after all that and great performance on debut, they throw him under the bus.
    AIUI he didn't get fired for these tweets. So where's the "again" coming in?
    He got fired for his general all round unacceptable behaviour. Sure, it wasn't specifically those tweets, but since then it appears he has changed and rebuilt his career.

    With all these social media outrages my position is, is it a continued pattern of consistent unacceptable behaviour over a period of time and is there any evidence they have changed since then? And is there evidence they do this stuff offline as well as online.

    For example Jared O'Mara, continued appalling behaviour on and offline for years and right up to being elected. Gareth Snell, some stupid tweets many years before he became an MP, but doesn't appear anything more than that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,315
    Leon said:

    This is pretty significant, if you're following the Source of Covid story

    One of the main virologists defending the "natural origins" thesis is K G Anderson

    Weirdly enough, he mentioned a possible "engineered" aspect to the virus to Anthony Fauci, in a FOIA'd email back in January 2020. Four days later he was on board with natural zoonosis, 100%, with no obvious data interim to change his mind. Why?

    Who knows. But ever since he has been furiously denouncing "lab leak" and presenting concepts for "wet market" - or whatever

    Until this week. For the last few hours he has been deleting tweets en masse, and now he has deleted his entire account, as citizen journalists probe what he has said

    It's a cover up. It came from the lab. Enough

    "Kristian G. Anderson in a January 31, 2020 email to Anthony Fauci:

    “…Eddie, Bob, Mike and myself all find the genome inconsistent with expectations from evolutionary theory.”

    The hypocrisy of these people is simply stunning."

    https://twitter.com/BretWeinstein/status/1400107600889319424?s=20

    Or he might just have got fed up with interacting with the trolls.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,993
    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    It is an absolute disgrace
    Why do I get the feeling that GB News won’t be giving “Independent SAGE” much of a hearing?
    Oh, I hope they do. And I hope they ripped a new one by GB News....
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    Surprised they even acknowledged that....recently they introduce the zero covidian non-independent SAGErs as "leading scientist".
    I don't remember who it was who used the "Independent HMRC" example of the absurdity of it the other day but whoever it was, thank you, I used that in my email to the editorial team.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    People over 70 from Pakistani and Bangladeshi backgrounds are less likely to have received their second coronavirus vaccine dose than their peers from other ethnic backgrounds, according to the Office for National Statistics.

    According to the latest ONS research, which focuses on England, "among people who received a first dose of a vaccine against coronavirus by 15 March 2021, 96.0% had received a second dose by 9 May 2021."

    However, those from Pakistani (82.4% second doses) and Bangladeshi (82.7% second doses) backgrounds had the lowest rates of receiving a follow-up vaccination.

    The White British group had the highest rate of receiving a second dose, the ONS said.

    Its research also found other factors seemed to impact how likely someone was to get their second vaccine dose.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited June 2021



    GB News is there to make money. The best newspaper in the country is the Daily Mail who make a killing from whipping up the angry. GB News aren't going to be treading an inoffensive neutral line as there's no money to be made doing that.

    The news industry is an industry - as in it needs to make money. That means the most successful are the ones that have the most views for their advertisers and that almost always means being the pied piper and whistling a welcome and familiar tune.

    The solution isn't to neuter news outlets from doing so, it is simply to allow an open playing field where different tunes can be whistled so that everyone gets the news they want. Fux News is embarrassingly bad but its what many people want. Other news outlets are available in the US market, the same is about to be true here. Good.

    Fair comment
    I agree with RP's analysis of the current situation, but not with the solution. There are two snags. There's the leftist one that if you have a contest of broadcasters putting one-sided views, the right-wing one will win because it has more money (so they'll pay £xxx to employ popular non-political stars to draw people over). That's one reason that the right-wing press tends to do better.

    But a more important one is the cohesion of democratic dialogue. We've seen what polarised broadcast media do in the States. People opt for channels that say what they like to hear, and dismiss alternative versions of truth as simply lies. Trump really won the election. All capitalist businesses are corrupt. The middle ground disappears. You need broadcasters who attempt to be neutral or at least to give alternative views a hearing. Otherwise we end up with 50% of the country watching GBNews and 40% watching C4 News, and nobody believing anything the others think.
    The problem Nick is that the BBC and especially Sky are not seen as neutral by a large number of the populace

    GBNews may or may not survive but it will be a very different broadcaster to the other two and should widen dialogue
    I have had to block the BBC website on my computer. It is very questionable whether it can be regarded as neutral, but what annoys me most is that the articles on the news website are incredibly stupid. The most recent one that irritated me was a woman moaning about how she couldn't take her 18 month old baby to portugal, apparently the baby was being denied the chance to see the world. Another article that I found bizarre was a celebration of the various ways in which people had managed to avoid hotel quarantine coming back from India; at no point did the article question why people were going to India in the first place, nor whether it was morally right to be avoiding quarantine in this way. There are many other pointless articles at any one time, like an interview with someone who thought that they would focus on their main job, and not start a side hustle like many of their friends. These articles are just completely pointless. As someone who was bought up to believe that news should be objective, it just falls far short of the mark; this type of output is a kind of spam.

    Overall the entire news output is just comically stupid, and has a very obvious woke bias.



  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
    I'm sure the guns of war thing will drown out quiet reflection, but...

    Even if the ECB have over-reacted (and you can fairly argue either way on that... We're talking one match for crying out loud)

    When a senior minister is publicly weighing in on whether an individual should play in a professional sport match...

    ... We're in the Bad Place, aren't we?
    Not necessarily one match, he is banned from all international cricket for the foreseeable future, while they conduct an investigation and decide appropriate punishment.

    Lets hope the same people behind Labour antisemitism investigations aren't doing this as he might not be cleared for 18 months.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    And all of a sudden the value of GB News becomes clear. Every time the BBC tries on this egregious bias they should lose a million pounds of the licence fee as an on-the-spot fine - and have it transferred to their competitor.
    Which competitor though ? ITV, Sky, Channel 4, Disney, Netflix, Amazon, Channel 5, Youtube, Bitchute, Discovery ?

    GB News is one of many many competitors.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2021

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
    I'm sure the guns of war thing will drown out quiet reflection, but...

    Even if the ECB have over-reacted (and you can fairly argue either way on that... We're talking one match for crying out loud)

    When a senior minister is publicly weighing in on whether an individual should play in a professional sport match...

    ... We're in the Bad Place, aren't we?
    No, we're in a Very Good Place. Organizations like the ECB who should never have become involved in the miserable practice of offence archaeology in the first place are getting a gentle reminder of what proper government is all about.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
    I'm sure the guns of war thing will drown out quiet reflection, but...

    Even if the ECB have over-reacted (and you can fairly argue either way on that... We're talking one match for crying out loud)

    When a senior minister is publicly weighing in on whether an individual should play in a professional sport match...

    ... We're in the Bad Place, aren't we?
    Isn't professional sports within the Culture Secretary's remit?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
    I'm sure the guns of war thing will drown out quiet reflection, but...

    Even if the ECB have over-reacted (and you can fairly argue either way on that... We're talking one match for crying out loud)

    When a senior minister is publicly weighing in on whether an individual should play in a professional sport match...

    ... We're in the Bad Place, aren't we?
    FWIW I agree with Dowden but he really really should not be taking a public stance on this. Playing Devil's Advocate I can see why the ECB wanted to set an example to younger players (who sets the statute of limitations on these things?) not to do this and, after all, it is likely for just one game. I tend to think the time elapsed and the apology should count against that. But Dowden should not weigh in.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,109
    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
    I'm sure the guns of war thing will drown out quiet reflection, but...

    Even if the ECB have over-reacted (and you can fairly argue either way on that... We're talking one match for crying out loud)

    When a senior minister is publicly weighing in on whether an individual should play in a professional sport match...

    ... We're in the Bad Place, aren't we?
    No, we're in a Very Good Place. Organizations like the ECB who should never have become involved in the miserable practice of offence archaeology in the first place are getting a gentle reminder of what proper government is all about.
    The ECB are also totally inconsistent. Overton, screaming racist abuse at a batsman, yeah that's ok we will pick him, Hales, you got done for drugs multiple times, kicked some defenceless twat in the head and being a consistent all round disruptive bellend, yeap we will kept picking you....until Morgan finally said I am absolutely not having him, he causes so much trouble...come on Morgs, he is a good player, you can f##k right off if I am having him in my team.

    You did what, you wrote some idiotic tweets 10 years ago, apology now, ok no prob boss, right good, your fired. You what....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,669
    Pulpstar said:

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    And all of a sudden the value of GB News becomes clear. Every time the BBC tries on this egregious bias they should lose a million pounds of the licence fee as an on-the-spot fine - and have it transferred to their competitor.
    Which competitor though ? ITV, Sky, Channel 4, Disney, Netflix, Amazon, Channel 5, Youtube, Bitchute, Discovery ?

    GB News is one of many many competitors.
    We will have to see how it all shakes out, but those condemning GBNews before it has commenced broadcasting are generally of the left

    Time will tell
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800

    Lol - The whips office will be celebrating tonight. I think Bercow would have called it
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    edited June 2021

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    It is an absolute disgrace
    Why do I get the feeling that GB News won’t be giving “Independent SAGE” much of a hearing?
    Oh, I hope they do. And I hope they ripped a new one by GB News....
    Ha, maybe. I’m sure the cranks who love the sound of their own voices will all try and get on the new channel - but after a few ‘robust’ interviews with a well-researched Andrew Neil, they’ll probably give up trying.

    I can picture Neil in my head, saying something like “With all due respect, that’s bollocks isn’t it?”
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,993

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
    I'm sure the guns of war thing will drown out quiet reflection, but...

    Even if the ECB have over-reacted (and you can fairly argue either way on that... We're talking one match for crying out loud)

    When a senior minister is publicly weighing in on whether an individual should play in a professional sport match...

    ... We're in the Bad Place, aren't we?
    Not necessarily one match, he is banned from all international cricket for the foreseeable future, while they conduct an investigation and decide appropriate punishment.

    Lets hope the same people behind Labour antisemitism investigations aren't doing this as he might not be cleared for 18 months.
    On the plus side, he would be utterly exonerated.

    Of anti-semitism at least.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
    I'm sure the guns of war thing will drown out quiet reflection, but...

    Even if the ECB have over-reacted (and you can fairly argue either way on that... We're talking one match for crying out loud)

    When a senior minister is publicly weighing in on whether an individual should play in a professional sport match...

    ... We're in the Bad Place, aren't we?
    FWIW I agree with Dowden but he really really should not be taking a public stance on this. Playing Devil's Advocate I can see why the ECB wanted to set an example to younger players (who sets the statute of limitations on these things?) not to do this and, after all, it is likely for just one game. I tend to think the time elapsed and the apology should count against that. But Dowden should not weigh in.
    If it was just a one match suspension and that was it then I would agree with you. It would be tokenistic but after a match move on.

    But it seems like an indefinite suspension for something that happened many years prior. I think that rather sets a bad precedent not a good one, people have a past and teenagers can be pricks. Saying that you should hold against people what they said when they were a teenager rather than letting them apologise and move on is rather dark and twisted.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    And all of a sudden the value of GB News becomes clear. Every time the BBC tries on this egregious bias they should lose a million pounds of the licence fee as an on-the-spot fine - and have it transferred to their competitor.
    I genuinely think that the sub didn't know the difference.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943

    Mr. Sandpit, aye, Vettel had a great race after a strong performance in Monaco. Unlucky for Stroll, but Aston Martin's faith in the veteran is being repaid (and Red Bull now look like they probably have a capable number two to Verstappen). Both men said to judge them after five races, and they finished 1-2, with Gasly also punching well above his weight.

    Xtrain said:



    GB News is there to make money. The best newspaper in the country is the Daily Mail who make a killing from whipping up the angry. GB News aren't going to be treading an inoffensive neutral line as there's no money to be made doing that.

    The news industry is an industry - as in it needs to make money. That means the most successful are the ones that have the most views for their advertisers and that almost always means being the pied piper and whistling a welcome and familiar tune.

    The solution isn't to neuter news outlets from doing so, it is simply to allow an open playing field where different tunes can be whistled so that everyone gets the news they want. Fux News is embarrassingly bad but its what many people want. Other news outlets are available in the US market, the same is about to be true here. Good.

    Fair comment
    I agree with RP's analysis of the current situation, but not with the solution. There are two snags. There's the leftist one that if you have a contest of broadcasters putting one-sided views, the right-wing one will win because it has more money (so they'll pay £xxx to employ popular non-political stars to draw people over). That's one reason that the right-wing press tends to do better.

    But a more important one is the cohesion of democratic dialogue. We've seen what polarised broadcast media do in the States. People opt for channels that say what they like to hear, and dismiss alternative versions of truth as simply lies. Trump really won the election. All capitalist businesses are corrupt. The middle ground disappears. You need broadcasters who attempt to be neutral or at least to give alternative views a hearing. Otherwise we end up with 50% of the country watching GBNews and 40% watching C4 News, and nobody believing anything the others think.
    The problem Nick is that the BBC and especially Sky are not seen as neutral by a large number of the populace

    GBNews may or may not survive but it will be a very different broadcaster to the other two and should widen dialogue
    You can’t criticise the BBC’s apparent lack of neutrality whilst plugging a new news channel which will is obviously not going to be neutral. Either you’re in favour of neutral news broadcasting, or you’re not.
    I am in favour of balanced news to be fair
    Yes but we aren't getting it from the BBC, Channel 4 or Sky.
    All too pro -Government for you? Can't say I disagree.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,228
    edited June 2021
    MattW said:

    theProle said:

    HYUFD said:

    On topic, Labour says it could support the government if it keeps some restrictions beyond June 21st.

    Leaving the way clear for ReformUK to be the only main party committed to keeping June 21st as 'Freedom Day' if Boris retains some restrictions beyond that date

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1401655641756811268?s=20

    What on earth is wrong with the Labour Party? Boris and Co keep leaving the goal open with the ball gently rolling unattended past the penalty spot, so up rushes KS and gracefully boots it hard into the stand somewhere near the corner. Again and again.

    The government has squandered almost all of the lead the vaccines gave us - cheered on by the fools in the Labour Party. If they took a stance that we should unlock faster, they might actually have found a popular cause that's worth getting excited about, and also finally manage hold the government to account on something. Instead they are taking about wallpaper and wondering why their poll ratings are slightly further underwater the Titanic. Morons the lot of them.
    I don't think you are correct to say they have squandered the lead.

    They are still following the unlocking plan set out in (was it?) April.

    Wrt to EU, the EU pivoted to one jab = vaccinated to hide their 8 week lag, and imo may be about to hit a problem with the Indian variant needing 2 jabs active for proper protection.

    EuroGoon twitter's latest lot of kittens is about "how dare the USA keep us from going there when we have nearly caught them up". The last 4 words are a lie.
    The unlocking plan was very unambitious, and it's increasingly looking like they aren't going to implement the final steps of it. Most of the rest of the West has unlocked at a similar speed, despite much lower vaccination levels, and much higher initial case numbers.
    Given that the point of all this is to return to normality, doing all our unlocking a month to 6 weeks too late is very much squandering our success with the vaccines.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800

    Excellent. Perhaps those 'rebels' could get back to doing what their constituents actually want instead of trying to find new ways to give even more money away when we've just spent hundreds of billions fighting a pandemic. Just a thought.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943

    Mr. Sandpit, aye, Vettel had a great race after a strong performance in Monaco. Unlucky for Stroll, but Aston Martin's faith in the veteran is being repaid (and Red Bull now look like they probably have a capable number two to Verstappen). Both men said to judge them after five races, and they finished 1-2, with Gasly also punching well above his weight.

    Xtrain said:



    GB News is there to make money. The best newspaper in the country is the Daily Mail who make a killing from whipping up the angry. GB News aren't going to be treading an inoffensive neutral line as there's no money to be made doing that.

    The news industry is an industry - as in it needs to make money. That means the most successful are the ones that have the most views for their advertisers and that almost always means being the pied piper and whistling a welcome and familiar tune.

    The solution isn't to neuter news outlets from doing so, it is simply to allow an open playing field where different tunes can be whistled so that everyone gets the news they want. Fux News is embarrassingly bad but its what many people want. Other news outlets are available in the US market, the same is about to be true here. Good.

    Fair comment
    I agree with RP's analysis of the current situation, but not with the solution. There are two snags. There's the leftist one that if you have a contest of broadcasters putting one-sided views, the right-wing one will win because it has more money (so they'll pay £xxx to employ popular non-political stars to draw people over). That's one reason that the right-wing press tends to do better.

    But a more important one is the cohesion of democratic dialogue. We've seen what polarised broadcast media do in the States. People opt for channels that say what they like to hear, and dismiss alternative versions of truth as simply lies. Trump really won the election. All capitalist businesses are corrupt. The middle ground disappears. You need broadcasters who attempt to be neutral or at least to give alternative views a hearing. Otherwise we end up with 50% of the country watching GBNews and 40% watching C4 News, and nobody believing anything the others think.
    The problem Nick is that the BBC and especially Sky are not seen as neutral by a large number of the populace

    GBNews may or may not survive but it will be a very different broadcaster to the other two and should widen dialogue
    You can’t criticise the BBC’s apparent lack of neutrality whilst plugging a new news channel which will is obviously not going to be neutral. Either you’re in favour of neutral news broadcasting, or you’re not.
    I am in favour of balanced news to be fair
    Yes but we aren't getting it from the BBC, Channel 4 or Sky.
    All too pro -Government for you? Can't say I disagree.
    I have no idea how Morris' comment was "quoted". Fat fingers on a Chinese mobile?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Any other scientists with dubious qualifications to pontificate on public health measures in a pandemic want to join me in founding the "Positive About Reopening, Set Loose, Enjoy Yourselves" consortium as a counterpoint to iSAGE?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,669

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
    I'm sure the guns of war thing will drown out quiet reflection, but...

    Even if the ECB have over-reacted (and you can fairly argue either way on that... We're talking one match for crying out loud)

    When a senior minister is publicly weighing in on whether an individual should play in a professional sport match...

    ... We're in the Bad Place, aren't we?
    And the same with taking the knee at football

    It will be a surprise if next season, when the grounds are full, it continues, but who knows
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    I think actually that most people don't realise what is going on and the significance of what is happening, in the way that perhaps you or I do.

    If the government were serious about this they would have acted more decisively. They know that they have a small constituency who is up in arms about this type of thing but most of the pressure is coming from within the party and their backbench MP's, so they have to do something, but they also know that the issue just doesn't have much salience with the wider population; who naively associate woke twittermobs with the achievement of social progress and equality.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,051
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800

    Good news for Boris, the question though is whether the rebels still vote against the ARIA Bill if it excludes their amendment
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
    I'm sure the guns of war thing will drown out quiet reflection, but...

    Even if the ECB have over-reacted (and you can fairly argue either way on that... We're talking one match for crying out loud)

    When a senior minister is publicly weighing in on whether an individual should play in a professional sport match...

    ... We're in the Bad Place, aren't we?
    No, we're in a Very Good Place. Organizations like the ECB who should never have become involved in the miserable practice of offence archaeology in the first place are getting a gentle reminder of what proper government is all about.
    The ECB are also totally inconsistent. Overton, screaming racist abuse at a batsman, yeah that's ok we will pick him, Hales, you got done for drugs multiple times, kicked some defenceless twat in the head and being a consistent all round disruptive bellend, yeap we will kept picking you....until Morgan finally said I am absolutely not having him, he causes so much trouble...come on Morgs, he is a good player, you can f##k right off if I am having him in my team.

    You did what, you wrote some idiotic tweets 10 years ago, apology now, ok no prob boss, right good, your fired. You what....
    The best thing the ECB could do is run awareness courses on social media, for all the teenagers looking to turn professional, and have a couple of consultants go through with a big delete button.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Mr. Pete, your fingers clearly love F1 :D
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800

    Great news, and good that we have a proper Speaker and not Bercow.

    Good to know that David Davis couldn't even get this right. Why change the habit of a lifetime?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Andy_JS said:

    "Two U.S. experts have penned a damning essay saying the genome sequencing of COVID-19 strongly suggests that the virus was manufactured inside a Chinese laboratory.

    Dr. Stephen Quay and Richard Muller, a physics professor at the University of California Berkeley, made the claim in The Wall Street Journal on Sunday, amid growing speculation that the coronavirus leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV).

    'The most compelling reason to favor the lab leak hypothesis is firmly based in science,' the experts wrote, stating that 'COVID-19 has a genetic footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus.'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9658851/Genome-sequencing-certainly-proves-COVID-deliberately-lab-experts-claim.html

    A physics professor? What exactly makes him qualified to opine on the subject?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,669
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800

    I am no expert on Parliamentary procedures but that occurred to me yesterday when there was a report on it
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419
    It's annoying that the cases aren't being stratified by vaccination doses received in the dashboard explicitly. That would allow vaccine efficacy calculations to be performed more precisely than we have at the moment.
    The 1 in 25 double jabbed quoted by iSage getting Covid does point to high efficacy though ( 90%ish ? )
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    And all of a sudden the value of GB News becomes clear. Every time the BBC tries on this egregious bias they should lose a million pounds of the licence fee as an on-the-spot fine - and have it transferred to their competitor.
    You are just the sort of angry viewer GB News needs in order to make you angrier. Fill yer boots!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    Selebian said:

    Any other scientists with dubious qualifications to pontificate on public health measures in a pandemic want to join me in founding the "Positive About Reopening, Set Loose, Enjoy Yourselves" consortium as a counterpoint to iSAGE?

    I'm in! I am an expert in NMR, synthetic organic and organometallic chemistry, and have some knowledge of medicinal chemistry. That surely makes me qualified to talk about ANYTHING!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211
    Selebian said:

    Any other scientists with dubious qualifications to pontificate on public health measures in a pandemic want to join me in founding the "Positive About Reopening, Set Loose, Enjoy Yourselves" consortium as a counterpoint to iSAGE?

    I am available at £1500 per hour (plus VAT, plus handling fees, plus... stuff) as the spokesman for Independent Labour. We just happen to contradict everything the actual Labour Party believes in and does. But that's not planned. No, Sir.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    The G7 tax deal is not what it claims to be:

    • The 10% tax threshold means companies won't pay tax unless their profits are more than that

    • Therefore, Amazon's profit (over $8bn but under 10%) probably means not a single penny extra in tax
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    darkage said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    I think actually that most people don't realise what is going on and the significance of what is happening, in the way that perhaps you or I do.

    If the government were serious about this they would have acted more decisively. They know that they have a small constituency who is up in arms about this type of thing but most of the pressure is coming from within the party and their backbench MP's, so they have to do something, but they also know that the issue just doesn't have much salience with the wider population; who naively associate woke twittermobs with the achievement of social progress and equality.
    We are in a period of overshoot right now. Institutions, the government, even, is keen to shift the parameters of tolerance for racism or hint of racism.

    As with most things, there is an equilibrium and then when there needs to be a change there is often an overshoot before the pendulum swings back. We are now in one of those periods and eventually things will settle down but with a lower tolerance for racism or even perceived racism.

    And that is fine. Just grit your teeth through this time, voice under your breath about political correctness gone mad and look forward to moving into the next phase and era.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800

    Lol - The whips office will be celebrating tonight. I think Bercow would have called it
    Which is why he still isn’t Lord Bercow.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211
    Selebian said:

    Any other scientists with dubious qualifications to pontificate on public health measures in a pandemic want to join me in founding the "Positive About Reopening, Set Loose, Enjoy Yourselves" consortium as a counterpoint to iSAGE?


    Surely that should be the "Independently Independent of Independent (You Betcha We Are Independent) SAGE?"

    I4Sage for short.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,943

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800

    I am no expert on Parliamentary procedures but that occurred to me yesterday when there was a report on it
    Do you also predict another vanity by-election in Haltemprice and Howden?

    (On this occasion, I would agree with Davis)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
    I'm sure the guns of war thing will drown out quiet reflection, but...

    Even if the ECB have over-reacted (and you can fairly argue either way on that... We're talking one match for crying out loud)

    When a senior minister is publicly weighing in on whether an individual should play in a professional sport match...

    ... We're in the Bad Place, aren't we?
    No, we're in a Very Good Place. Organizations like the ECB who should never have become involved in the miserable practice of offence archaeology in the first place are getting a gentle reminder of what proper government is all about.
    The ECB are also totally inconsistent. Overton, screaming racist abuse at a batsman, yeah that's ok we will pick him, Hales, you got done for drugs multiple times, kicked some defenceless twat in the head and being a consistent all round disruptive bellend, yeap we will kept picking you....until Morgan finally said I am absolutely not having him, he causes so much trouble...come on Morgs, he is a good player, you can f##k right off if I am having him in my team.

    You did what, you wrote some idiotic tweets 10 years ago, apology now, ok no prob boss, right good, your fired. You what....
    The best thing the ECB could do is run awareness courses on social media, for all the teenagers looking to turn professional, and have a couple of consultants go through with a big delete button.
    My cousin's son is on the Warks youth team. His social media twitter account is clean as a whistle and 100% cricket focussed.

    https://twitter.com/blundell_alfie
    I think this is the model going forward for any young players in serious development programs tbh.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    And all of a sudden the value of GB News becomes clear. Every time the BBC tries on this egregious bias they should lose a million pounds of the licence fee as an on-the-spot fine - and have it transferred to their competitor.
    You are just the sort of angry viewer GB News needs in order to make you angrier. Fill yer boots!
    I never watch TV news these days - and rarely did before - but if they genuinely offer a bit of real diversity distinct from the stultifying BBC/Sky/ITV/C4 monoculture then I might just break the habit of a lifetime...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,315
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Two U.S. experts have penned a damning essay saying the genome sequencing of COVID-19 strongly suggests that the virus was manufactured inside a Chinese laboratory.

    Dr. Stephen Quay and Richard Muller, a physics professor at the University of California Berkeley, made the claim in The Wall Street Journal on Sunday, amid growing speculation that the coronavirus leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV).

    'The most compelling reason to favor the lab leak hypothesis is firmly based in science,' the experts wrote, stating that 'COVID-19 has a genetic footprint that has never been observed in a natural coronavirus.'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9658851/Genome-sequencing-certainly-proves-COVID-deliberately-lab-experts-claim.html

    A physics professor? What exactly makes him qualified to opine on the subject?
    "Experts"...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/virus-origins-nature-lab/2021/06/03/dd50eb62-c4a9-11eb-93f5-ee9558eecf4b_story.html
    The molecular handshake between SARS-CoV-2 and ACE-2, seemingly unique in early 2020, turns out to be found in several related viruses and has since evolved to be a better fit. Its ability to infect human cells also turns out to be unremarkable. A related virus discovered in pangolins infects human cells even more readily than SARS-CoV-2. The virus behind the pandemic may be special in its impact on our lives and the global economy, but the way it infects us isn’t unique at all…

    ...The Wuhan institute’s most recent chimeric virus used a very different coronavirus as its genetic backbone. Looking at the body of research produced there, it’s clear that scientists were laser-focused on the bat viruses related to SARS-CoV, which spurred research on coronaviruses worldwide after it emerged in 2003 because of its pandemic potential. There’s just no trace of SARS-CoV-2 in the lab, and if the SARS-CoV-2 progenitor or its building blocks weren’t in the lab before the pandemic, the pandemic could not have started there — even accidentally. This precludes the possibility that SARS-CoV-2 evolved via serial passage in cell culture, or repeated rounds of infection of other cells in a lab, as do other observations about the virus. In standard cell culture, features like the furin cleavage site that are crucial for transmission and disease in humans are rapidly lost as the virus begins adapting to the vervet monkey kidney cells typically used to grow it. For the past 18 months, virologists around the world have been studying SARS-CoV-2 in the laboratory, and they have not seen any evidence that it becomes more dangerous to humans in the lab. The opposite is true: The virus loses features key to transmissibility and virulence, forcing researchers to innovate new culture methods to allow the study of antivirals or vaccines

  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,236
    Foxy said:

    A tricky market. What happens if the rules continue in amended form? For example if no limits on numbers, but masks and social distancing continues?

    Smarkets market is "All legal limits on social contact removed on 21 June" - masks and social distancing post 21/6 is likely I agree, indeed you have confirmed it in your own clinical setting, but it will be guidelines/recommendations only. Not law. Therefore market settles "Yes".

    The odds on "Yes" have drifted since Mike wrote his header. I've just mopped up 3.5 with Smarkets on "Yes".
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    So, will Hoyle follow Bercow's "example" (sic):

    It had been expected that the Speaker would reject Mr Grieve’s amendment because of precedent. It says that government business that is tabled to be conducted ‘forthwith’ cannot be amended. But Mr Bercow broke with tradition and authorised an immediate vote (without debate) on the amendment and it was carried by eleven votes.

    His decision caused immediate uproar. It became clear that it had been taken against the advice of the Clerk of the House of Commons, Sir David Natzler, the expert authority on Commons procedure.


    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/01/10/bercow-causes-fury-over-brexit

    I suspect not......
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,141

    Selebian said:

    Any other scientists with dubious qualifications to pontificate on public health measures in a pandemic want to join me in founding the "Positive About Reopening, Set Loose, Enjoy Yourselves" consortium as a counterpoint to iSAGE?

    I am available at £1500 per hour (plus VAT, plus handling fees, plus... stuff) as the spokesman for Independent Labour. We just happen to contradict everything the actual Labour Party believes in and does. But that's not planned. No, Sir.
    Wouldn't work anyway. The current Labour Party doesn't believe in, or do, anything that I can see.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,247

    FF43 said:

    Selebian said:

    Politically, there's risk/reward here either way:
    1. Open as planned, we beat (at least most of) Europe on getting life back to normal. No significant third wave, no more lockdowns: all hail Boris
    2. Open as planned. Significant third wave, lockodnw later in the year: Boris the bungler with blood on his hands, people will look again at the earlier cock-ups too
    3. Delay opening, we fall behind (bits of) Europe and they don't have a significant third wave and it's clear we were too cautious: Boris in hock to the mad scientists, vaccine bounce disappears as it all looks a bit pointless if we didn't unlock any quicker
    4 Delay opening, we fall behind (bits of Europe) but those bits of Europe have a big third wave and lock down again late summer/autumn while a short delay here means no more lockdowns: Boris called this one right, good job

    Opening as planned has both the biggest upside and biggest downside, politically. I still think we can open now if we agree (and it's made clear to the country) that the lockdowns were to prevent NHS collapse - if that's not a real risk (it seems unlikely) then we open up. Now does Johnson have the cajones for it?

    I think the before Christmas situation is a bit different - Johnson eventually took the route of lockdown, but well after most scientists were warning about imminent doom (increasing cases, with increasing hospitalisations and very little immunity in the population - different to now!) and even then it was only a partial lockdown of the country.

    I would add a couple of points.

    Firstly the context is very different from the previous lockdowns. No-one is talking repeating a March 2020 or January 2021 lockdown. Vaccines remove the need for that . We're taking about the need to continue with some non medical interventions for a period of time or whether they can be removed entirely.

    Secondly the driver for this is the healthcare system. The NHS was in a poor state going into Covid and is even more fragile now. A relatively modest third wave could cause significant damage, but the public aren't necessarily on top of the issues.

    Good thread on this here:

    https://twitter.com/ChrisCEOHopson/status/1401403305809547269
    Independent* SAGE are demanding a full lockdown. They are implying by this that they believe the vaccines are not working.

    The vaccines are working. We have evidence of this in the reversal of the earlier situation, where the elderly were most likely to be hospitalised and die from COVID. While we watched, the lines crossed over, and the unvaccinated, younger groups became more likely suffer serious medical consequences.

    We have further evidence of this in the various statements about vaccine prevalence among those hospitalised and dying.

    *They bring to mind Lord Trenchard's comment - "Independent of whom? God?"
    I don't state an opinion on whether Independent SAGE is correct in its analysis, but to be clear it argues against January style lockdown in its statement here. The discussion, as I said, is about whether to continue with some non medical interventions. They also want to reinstate facemasks in English schools

    https://www.independentsage.org/indie-sage-statement-on-the-uk-government-roadmap-for-ending-all-restrictions/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,315
    Meadows Pressed Justice Dept. to Investigate Election Fraud Claims
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/05/us/politics/mark-meadows-justice-department-election.html
    Emails show the increasingly urgent efforts by President Trump and his allies during his last days in office to find some way to undermine, or even nullify, the election results...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,172
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    It is an absolute disgrace
    Why do I get the feeling that GB News won’t be giving “Independent SAGE” much of a hearing?
    Oh, I hope they do. And I hope they ripped a new one by GB News....
    Ha, maybe. I’m sure the cranks who love the sound of their own voices will all try and get on the new channel - but after a few ‘robust’ interviews with a well-researched Andrew Neil, they’ll probably give up trying.

    I can picture Neil in my head, saying something like “With all due respect, that’s bollocks isn’t it?”
    Well-researched Andra Neil who thought Bosnia & Herzegovina were two countries, that the US Congress rioters looked less threatening than a St Mirren home crowd, that Sweden was leading the way in coping with Covid and that Merkel’s (short lived) difficulties in forming a coalition constituted the worst political crisis Germany had faced since the 1940s?

    Who could live with such perspicacity?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,062
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800

    Good news for Boris, the question though is whether the rebels still vote against the ARIA Bill if it excludes their amendment
    It’s not a great look though, to try to block a bill to create a new agency to help drive growth an innovation in cutting edge technologies simply to send some extra money overseas. Irrespective of the merits or otherwise.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    I felt obliged to send a stiff email...


    And all of a sudden the value of GB News becomes clear. Every time the BBC tries on this egregious bias they should lose a million pounds of the licence fee as an on-the-spot fine - and have it transferred to their competitor.
    I genuinely think that the sub didn't know the difference.
    Yep, I think Hanlon's razor applies here.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211
    Fishing said:

    Selebian said:

    Any other scientists with dubious qualifications to pontificate on public health measures in a pandemic want to join me in founding the "Positive About Reopening, Set Loose, Enjoy Yourselves" consortium as a counterpoint to iSAGE?

    I am available at £1500 per hour (plus VAT, plus handling fees, plus... stuff) as the spokesman for Independent Labour. We just happen to contradict everything the actual Labour Party believes in and does. But that's not planned. No, Sir.
    Wouldn't work anyway. The current Labour Party doesn't believe in, or do, anything that I can see.
    That just makes it easier. All I need to do is to state that the Labour party is wrong, incompetent, a danger to the country etc. When asked why, I just wibble. Just like iSage.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    I did enjoy this nowcast:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1401835165954056194/photo/3

    Not for the result, which would result in more or less the same majority, but instead for the fact that seat size in terms of geographical size would become an almost perfect predictor of Tory victory in England.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    The G7 tax deal is apparently not what it claims to be:

    • The 10% tax threshold means companies won't pay tax unless their profits are more than that

    • Therefore, Amazon's profit (over $8bn but under 10%) probably means not a single penny extra in tax
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,141

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800

    I am no expert on Parliamentary procedures but that occurred to me yesterday when there was a report on it
    Tacking totally irrelevant amendments to bills is an American habit we're lucky we don't have.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Selebian said:

    Politically, there's risk/reward here either way:
    1. Open as planned, we beat (at least most of) Europe on getting life back to normal. No significant third wave, no more lockdowns: all hail Boris
    2. Open as planned. Significant third wave, lockodnw later in the year: Boris the bungler with blood on his hands, people will look again at the earlier cock-ups too
    3. Delay opening, we fall behind (bits of) Europe and they don't have a significant third wave and it's clear we were too cautious: Boris in hock to the mad scientists, vaccine bounce disappears as it all looks a bit pointless if we didn't unlock any quicker
    4 Delay opening, we fall behind (bits of Europe) but those bits of Europe have a big third wave and lock down again late summer/autumn while a short delay here means no more lockdowns: Boris called this one right, good job

    Opening as planned has both the biggest upside and biggest downside, politically. I still think we can open now if we agree (and it's made clear to the country) that the lockdowns were to prevent NHS collapse - if that's not a real risk (it seems unlikely) then we open up. Now does Johnson have the cajones for it?

    I think the before Christmas situation is a bit different - Johnson eventually took the route of lockdown, but well after most scientists were warning about imminent doom (increasing cases, with increasing hospitalisations and very little immunity in the population - different to now!) and even then it was only a partial lockdown of the country.

    I would add a couple of points.

    Firstly the context is very different from the previous lockdowns. No-one is talking repeating a March 2020 or January 2021 lockdown. Vaccines remove the need for that . We're taking about the need to continue with some non medical interventions for a period of time or whether they can be removed entirely.

    Secondly the driver for this is the healthcare system. The NHS was in a poor state going into Covid and is even more fragile now. A relatively modest third wave could cause significant damage, but the public aren't necessarily on top of the issues.

    Good thread on this here:

    https://twitter.com/ChrisCEOHopson/status/1401403305809547269
    Independent* SAGE are demanding a full lockdown. They are implying by this that they believe the vaccines are not working.

    The vaccines are working. We have evidence of this in the reversal of the earlier situation, where the elderly were most likely to be hospitalised and die from COVID. While we watched, the lines crossed over, and the unvaccinated, younger groups became more likely suffer serious medical consequences.

    We have further evidence of this in the various statements about vaccine prevalence among those hospitalised and dying.

    *They bring to mind Lord Trenchard's comment - "Independent of whom? God?"
    I don't state an opinion on whether Independent SAGE is correct in its analysis, but to be clear it argues against January style lockdown in its statement here. The discussion, as I said, is about whether to continue with some non medical interventions. They also want to reinstate facemasks in English schools

    https://www.independentsage.org/indie-sage-statement-on-the-uk-government-roadmap-for-ending-all-restrictions/
    Strangely, there is a distance between that, and the shite they are slinging in the media. Funny that....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800

    I am no expert on Parliamentary procedures but that occurred to me yesterday when there was a report on it
    Do you also predict another vanity by-election in Haltemprice and Howden?

    (On this occasion, I would agree with Davis)
    If that were to happen the Tories should put forward a candidate against him.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800

    Excellent. Perhaps those 'rebels' could get back to doing what their constituents actually want instead of trying to find new ways to give even more money away when we've just spent hundreds of billions fighting a pandemic. Just a thought.
    Maybe not all their constituents are clear on this matter. Besides, the way our pseudo-democracy is supposed to work is that MPs are sent to Westminster to apply their judgement to complex matters, which sometimes means going against the party line of their own party. They are not meant to be rubber stamps of the executive, nor are they supposed to only take into account the views of frothing swivel-eyed right wingers who get their opinions from the Daily Express. Just sayin'!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    Selebian said:

    Any other scientists with dubious qualifications to pontificate on public health measures in a pandemic want to join me in founding the "Positive About Reopening, Set Loose, Enjoy Yourselves" consortium as a counterpoint to iSAGE?

    I have a chemistry degree which has sat unused for 12 years, can I join? I think I'd qualify for indy Sage.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,211
    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Planned Tory rebellion in Commons today aimed at reversing foreign aid cuts has been thwarted.

    Clerks have determined the rebels' amendment is "completely out of scope" of ARIA Bill & their unequivocal advice is that it should not be called.

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1401832657835724800

    I am no expert on Parliamentary procedures but that occurred to me yesterday when there was a report on it
    Tacking totally irrelevant amendments to bills is an American habit we're lucky we don't have.
    Yes - quite apart from the rights and wrongs of the this particular issue (foreign aid), the last thing we need in this country is vote purchasing in parliment.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Govt vs the ECB. I reckon most people make the govt right on this one

    ‘ BREAKING: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said the England and Wales Cricket Board has gone “over the top” by suspending Ollie Robinson for old sexist and racist messages posted on social media.’


    https://twitter.com/timesradio/status/1401827195513978882?s=21

    Full quote:

    Ollie Robinson’s tweets were offensive and wrong.

    They are also a decade old and written by a teenager. The teenager is now a man and has rightly apologised. The ECB has gone over the top by suspending him and should think again.


    https://twitter.com/OliverDowden/status/1401825471294287877?s=20
    His job title should be changed to Culture WAR Secretary.
    I'm sure the guns of war thing will drown out quiet reflection, but...

    Even if the ECB have over-reacted (and you can fairly argue either way on that... We're talking one match for crying out loud)

    When a senior minister is publicly weighing in on whether an individual should play in a professional sport match...

    ... We're in the Bad Place, aren't we?
    No, we're in a Very Good Place. Organizations like the ECB who should never have become involved in the miserable practice of offence archaeology in the first place are getting a gentle reminder of what proper government is all about.
    The ECB are also totally inconsistent. Overton, screaming racist abuse at a batsman, yeah that's ok we will pick him, Hales, you got done for drugs multiple times, kicked some defenceless twat in the head and being a consistent all round disruptive bellend, yeap we will kept picking you....until Morgan finally said I am absolutely not having him, he causes so much trouble...come on Morgs, he is a good player, you can f##k right off if I am having him in my team.

    You did what, you wrote some idiotic tweets 10 years ago, apology now, ok no prob boss, right good, your fired. You what....
    The best thing the ECB could do is run awareness courses on social media, for all the teenagers looking to turn professional, and have a couple of consultants go through with a big delete button.
    My cousin's son is on the Warks youth team. His social media twitter account is clean as a whistle and 100% cricket focussed.

    https://twitter.com/blundell_alfie
    I think this is the model going forward for any young players in serious development programs tbh.
    Sensible young lad. The best piece of advice I’d give to a teenager who might want to end up in the public eye or a responsible job, is to not have any social media apps on their phone. Make that sort of engagement something that’s done on the computer, and don’t jump on the computer after a night out on the tiles.
This discussion has been closed.