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England’s R rate getting above one casts a shadow over positive holiday news from Spain and France –

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited June 2021 in General
imageEngland’s R rate getting above one casts a shadow over positive holiday news from Spain and France – politicalbetting.com

Developments on two fronts today – one positive for those looking for a return to normality and one that is very negative.

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited June 2021
    1(st) as apparently so is R0..
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Gee, I wonder why China might be doing THIS


    "JUST IN - China accuses the U.S. and Japan of running a secret biological warfare development program."



    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1400827649921105920?s=20

    That's basically China admitting they made Covid, and, yup, it was a bioweapon. Soz boz
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    A rise in cases was always expected from lifting lockdown.

    So long as its not causing a rise in hospitalisations and deaths, its not a problem. We need to just live with this.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    A rise in cases was always expected from lifting lockdown.

    So long as its not causing a rise in hospitalisations and deaths, its not a problem. We need to just live with this.

    I'm sure it will also cause a rise in hospitalisations and, sadly, deaths.

    The issue is NHS capacity.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Further evidence we need to speed up the numbers getting both their Covid vaccination jabs to control the virus spread and enable more foreign travel again
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,931
    Leon said:

    Gee, I wonder why China might be doing THIS


    "JUST IN - China accuses the U.S. and Japan of running a secret biological warfare development program."



    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1400827649921105920?s=20

    That's basically China admitting they made Covid, and, yup, it was a bioweapon. Soz boz

    I thought it was the wicked Americans developing bioweapons in Chinese labs? Dr Fauci as Dr Strangelove.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Eh?

    Michael Gove's self isolating missing a meeting with all 4 UK leaders after getting a ping from the NHS Covid app while on a trip to Portugal

    However, he's taking part in a pilot scheme for workplaces, where instead of isolating he can instead be tested every day for a week
    https://twitter.com/ZoraSuleman/status/1400836394810023945/photo/1
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    A rise in cases was always expected from lifting lockdown.

    So long as its not causing a rise in hospitalisations and deaths, its not a problem. We need to just live with this.

    Unfortunately it's a political problem though.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,226
    Chameleon said:
    Fascinating. “It’s not you, it’s not us. Hmmm....”
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    Leon said:

    Gee, I wonder why China might be doing THIS


    "JUST IN - China accuses the U.S. and Japan of running a secret biological warfare development program."



    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1400827649921105920?s=20

    That's basically China admitting they made Covid, and, yup, it was a bioweapon. Soz boz

    No, it's a sign that China will do anything it can to divert attention from any of its actions during the Covid pandemic, and to stir up trouble in the West.

    And that continues to be true whether the virus is natural or not.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Chameleon said:
    This detail from that story is surely Peak 2021

    "According to WUHAN-based researcher Chen Li from the Air Force Early Warning Academy...."


    WUHAN?

    WUHAN??????????


    Narrator: "At this point the reader hurled the book across the room"
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I wouldn't mind if the NHS refused to treat unvaccinated people, if that's what was wanted.

    I would happily contract out if I could take my tax money with me.

    That's what we should do. Refuse to treat unvaxxed people (unless they have a valid excuse - medical conditions etc)

    I do not see why my taxpayer's pound should go to treat stupid selfish people who endanger me and my family, when they are ALSO costing me money - and endangering the mental health of us all - by shagging the economy, because of renewed lockdowns.

    Fuck them. Really. Enough
    I am un vaccinated and you would stop me being treated. Fine. As long as I can stop contributing to the NHS. Let me contract out.

    Looking at the post covid, supposedly 'protected' NHS, I really think that's quite a good deal.
    Yes, I would stop you being treated. And you still have to pay your taxes because you are still going to use the NHS aren't you? And it keeps the country going, which you presumably want

    But you don't get treated for Covid, no. You are left to die and we save money. This is brutal stuff now. We are teetering on the edge of another disaster
    No if you are stopping me from being treated from covid then the NHS no longer free at the point of use, so I want a fully contracted out deal.

    No treatment. No payment. Fully private.

    Look at the NHS now. For a service that has been 'protected' it is totally on its knees.
    You can’t “contract out” of the NHS. There is no such thing as private emergency medicine or high dependency units. If you’re in a private hospital, past a certain point they’ll send you on to the NHS.

    So in his terms, his offer is fair - you get the full service for everything except the risk you have chosen to take on Covid.
    Ah does this mean I can ask the NHS to stop treating people who are over 25 stone for diabetes, based on the extra risk they have chosen to take relating to that disease? or stop treating smokers for lung problems on the same basis?

    A choice all the above have made more deliberately made than the choice I made on Covid.

    Especially as it wasn't me that made your freedoms based on hospital numbers.

    Though worth remembering that sweets and almost all takeaway food is taxed whereas vegetables and almost all grocery foods are not.
    And smokers are good for the Exchequer given tobacco duties and the fact they die early so don't claim pensions.

    You being a twunt just because you feel it, isn't taxed.
    That's a fair point.

    Maybe we could consider an 'unvaccinated' insurance premium.....I would pay that.
    Forgotten now - what's your reason for not getting vaccinated?
    I have been bitterly and opposed to government policy on covid since the start.

    It follows therefore that I am doing as little as possible on the government's command that I can get away with.

    That said, I wear a mask, work from home, socially distance and almost never meet people outside my bubble.

    So as little as possible means just about everything then?
    It seems so. Short of injecting into his body a government-mandated substance. Not that.
    It is recommended to inject this into your body, because its been tested and it works and is much safer than risking Covid. But a recommendation is not a mandate.

    The government also recommends you ingest the chemical dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO) too, which can also be known by the alternative name of hydroxic acid. Hydroxic acid is the primary component of acid rain, contributes to the greenhouse effect, and can cause severe burns or even death from overdose. Yet the government recommends it is ingested and it is even given to children in schools.

    If the government recommends DHMO ingestion then do you and @contrarian think that dihydrogen monoxide should be avoided too?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,257
    FPT:
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    That's basically China admitting they created Covid, probably as a bioweapon

    What’s your logic?
    Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals: "Accuse your opponent of what you are doing, to create confusion and to inculcate voters against evidence of your own guilt"
    Wait, you're accusing China of creating Covid, probably as a bioweapon. So that means that - in fact - you did it?

    Isn't this just a variation on "whoever smelt it, dealt it; whoever denied it, supplied it"?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    A rise in cases was always expected from lifting lockdown.

    So long as its not causing a rise in hospitalisations and deaths, its not a problem. We need to just live with this.

    It was always possible, but the hope was that the vaccination level would hold it down. Indeed, the vaccination level is high enough to keep cases of the Kent variant going down.

    We're only seeing cases go up because Johnson kept travel from India open too long, importing a more infectious variant into the country. All to discuss a trade deal, in the hope of making Brexit look less like a disaster.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Gee, I wonder why China might be doing THIS


    "JUST IN - China accuses the U.S. and Japan of running a secret biological warfare development program."



    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1400827649921105920?s=20

    That's basically China admitting they made Covid, and, yup, it was a bioweapon. Soz boz

    No, it's a sign that China will do anything it can to divert attention from any of its actions during the Covid pandemic, and to stir up trouble in the West.

    And that continues to be true whether the virus is natural or not.
    I was being a little flamboyant

    But it does make China look even more guilty. They are panicking. A panicking communist superpower with vast economic and military might and a tendency to crush people with tanks, is not optimal
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Another superb line from that SCMP article


    "A radar scientist based in Xian, in the northwest province of Shaanxi, said the increasing number of unknown objects in China’s air space was “more likely caused by humans than aliens”."

    Just "more likely". How much more likely? What are the chances its aliens? 10%? 33? 48%?

    I wonder if the whole aliens thing is actually a gigantic hoax by the China AND the USA to disguise and divert from the fact that together, in Wuhan, thanks to Peter Daszak and Anthony Fauci and some Chinese bioweapon dudes, they successfully created a terrible virus that then leaked into the world
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I wouldn't mind if the NHS refused to treat unvaccinated people, if that's what was wanted.

    I would happily contract out if I could take my tax money with me.

    That's what we should do. Refuse to treat unvaxxed people (unless they have a valid excuse - medical conditions etc)

    I do not see why my taxpayer's pound should go to treat stupid selfish people who endanger me and my family, when they are ALSO costing me money - and endangering the mental health of us all - by shagging the economy, because of renewed lockdowns.

    Fuck them. Really. Enough
    I am un vaccinated and you would stop me being treated. Fine. As long as I can stop contributing to the NHS. Let me contract out.

    Looking at the post covid, supposedly 'protected' NHS, I really think that's quite a good deal.
    Yes, I would stop you being treated. And you still have to pay your taxes because you are still going to use the NHS aren't you? And it keeps the country going, which you presumably want

    But you don't get treated for Covid, no. You are left to die and we save money. This is brutal stuff now. We are teetering on the edge of another disaster
    No if you are stopping me from being treated from covid then the NHS no longer free at the point of use, so I want a fully contracted out deal.

    No treatment. No payment. Fully private.

    Look at the NHS now. For a service that has been 'protected' it is totally on its knees.
    You can’t “contract out” of the NHS. There is no such thing as private emergency medicine or high dependency units. If you’re in a private hospital, past a certain point they’ll send you on to the NHS.

    So in his terms, his offer is fair - you get the full service for everything except the risk you have chosen to take on Covid.
    Ah does this mean I can ask the NHS to stop treating people who are over 25 stone for diabetes, based on the extra risk they have chosen to take relating to that disease? or stop treating smokers for lung problems on the same basis?

    A choice all the above have made more deliberately made than the choice I made on Covid.

    Especially as it wasn't me that made your freedoms based on hospital numbers.

    Though worth remembering that sweets and almost all takeaway food is taxed whereas vegetables and almost all grocery foods are not.
    And smokers are good for the Exchequer given tobacco duties and the fact they die early so don't claim pensions.

    You being a twunt just because you feel it, isn't taxed.
    That's a fair point.

    Maybe we could consider an 'unvaccinated' insurance premium.....I would pay that.
    Forgotten now - what's your reason for not getting vaccinated?
    I have been bitterly and opposed to government policy on covid since the start.

    It follows therefore that I am doing as little as possible on the government's command that I can get away with.

    That said, I wear a mask, work from home, socially distance and almost never meet people outside my bubble.

    So as little as possible means just about everything then?
    It seems so. Short of injecting into his body a government-mandated substance. Not that.
    It is recommended to inject this into your body, because its been tested and it works and is much safer than risking Covid. But a recommendation is not a mandate.

    The government also recommends you ingest the chemical dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO) too, which can also be known by the alternative name of hydroxic acid. Hydroxic acid is the primary component of acid rain, contributes to the greenhouse effect, and can cause severe burns or even death from overdose. Yet the government recommends it is ingested and it is even given to children in schools.

    If the government recommends DHMO ingestion then do you and @contrarian think that dihydrogen monoxide should be avoided too?
    I think that the government telling people what to put into their bodies is an understandable line too far for some people.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,226
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Gee, I wonder why China might be doing THIS


    "JUST IN - China accuses the U.S. and Japan of running a secret biological warfare development program."



    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1400827649921105920?s=20

    That's basically China admitting they made Covid, and, yup, it was a bioweapon. Soz boz

    No, it's a sign that China will do anything it can to divert attention from any of its actions during the Covid pandemic, and to stir up trouble in the West.

    And that continues to be true whether the virus is natural or not.
    I was being a little flamboyant

    But it does make China look even more guilty. They are panicking. A panicking communist superpower with vast economic and military might and a tendency to crush people with tanks, is not optimal
    I’m repeating this from the other day, the cable from the British ambassador during the Tiananmen Square massacre:

    “ STUDENTS UNDERSTOOD THEY WERE GIVEN ONE HOUR TO LEAVE SQUARE BUT AFTER FIVE MINUTES APCS ATTACKED. STUDENTS LINKED ARMS BUT WERE MOWN DOWN INCLUDING SOLDIERS. APCS THEN RAN OVER BODIES TIME AND TIME AGAIN TO MAKE QUOTE PIE UNQUOTE AND REMAINS COLLECTED BY BULLDOZER. REMAINS INCINERATED AND THEN HOSED DOWN DRAINS.“
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    One for @Leon...


    James Melville
    @JamesMelville
    ·
    23m
    Bored with Covid now. Bring on the alien invasion.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2021
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I wouldn't mind if the NHS refused to treat unvaccinated people, if that's what was wanted.

    I would happily contract out if I could take my tax money with me.

    That's what we should do. Refuse to treat unvaxxed people (unless they have a valid excuse - medical conditions etc)

    I do not see why my taxpayer's pound should go to treat stupid selfish people who endanger me and my family, when they are ALSO costing me money - and endangering the mental health of us all - by shagging the economy, because of renewed lockdowns.

    Fuck them. Really. Enough
    I am un vaccinated and you would stop me being treated. Fine. As long as I can stop contributing to the NHS. Let me contract out.

    Looking at the post covid, supposedly 'protected' NHS, I really think that's quite a good deal.
    Yes, I would stop you being treated. And you still have to pay your taxes because you are still going to use the NHS aren't you? And it keeps the country going, which you presumably want

    But you don't get treated for Covid, no. You are left to die and we save money. This is brutal stuff now. We are teetering on the edge of another disaster
    No if you are stopping me from being treated from covid then the NHS no longer free at the point of use, so I want a fully contracted out deal.

    No treatment. No payment. Fully private.

    Look at the NHS now. For a service that has been 'protected' it is totally on its knees.
    You can’t “contract out” of the NHS. There is no such thing as private emergency medicine or high dependency units. If you’re in a private hospital, past a certain point they’ll send you on to the NHS.

    So in his terms, his offer is fair - you get the full service for everything except the risk you have chosen to take on Covid.
    Ah does this mean I can ask the NHS to stop treating people who are over 25 stone for diabetes, based on the extra risk they have chosen to take relating to that disease? or stop treating smokers for lung problems on the same basis?

    A choice all the above have made more deliberately made than the choice I made on Covid.

    Especially as it wasn't me that made your freedoms based on hospital numbers.

    Though worth remembering that sweets and almost all takeaway food is taxed whereas vegetables and almost all grocery foods are not.
    And smokers are good for the Exchequer given tobacco duties and the fact they die early so don't claim pensions.

    You being a twunt just because you feel it, isn't taxed.
    That's a fair point.

    Maybe we could consider an 'unvaccinated' insurance premium.....I would pay that.
    Forgotten now - what's your reason for not getting vaccinated?
    I have been bitterly and opposed to government policy on covid since the start.

    It follows therefore that I am doing as little as possible on the government's command that I can get away with.

    That said, I wear a mask, work from home, socially distance and almost never meet people outside my bubble.

    So as little as possible means just about everything then?
    It seems so. Short of injecting into his body a government-mandated substance. Not that.
    It is recommended to inject this into your body, because its been tested and it works and is much safer than risking Covid. But a recommendation is not a mandate.

    The government also recommends you ingest the chemical dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO) too, which can also be known by the alternative name of hydroxic acid. Hydroxic acid is the primary component of acid rain, contributes to the greenhouse effect, and can cause severe burns or even death from overdose. Yet the government recommends it is ingested and it is even given to children in schools.

    If the government recommends DHMO ingestion then do you and @contrarian think that dihydrogen monoxide should be avoided too?
    I think that the government telling people what to put into their bodies is an understandable line too far for some people.
    Again, the government isn't telling people what to put into their bodies, its advising you do.

    The NHS are big pushers of the mantra that people should ingest dihydrogen monoxide.

    If you desire to be contrarian then are you going to refuse to ingest that, simply because the NHS recommends that you should?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    UK cases by specimen date

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    England PCR positivity

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    edited June 2021
    UK R

    ...and I've been posting this since forever.... sigh....

    image
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    Politico.com - Attacks on Fauci grow more intense, personal and conspiratorial
    Conservative are amplifying attacks on Fauci after the release of his emails. And they’re fundraising off of it too.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/04/fauci-attacks-personal-conspiratorial-491896

    For over a year, Anthony Fauci has been a bogeyman for conservatives, who have questioned his handling of the Covid-19 pandemic and accused him of quietly undermining then-President Donald Trump.

    But those attacks took on a whole new level of vitriol this week, to the point that one social media analysis described it as highly misleading and at least one platform pulled down some posts, citing false content.

    It all stemmed from a tranche of Fauci’s emails that were published as part of a Freedom of Information Act request filed by various news outlets. Within hours of publication, the hashtag #FauciLeaks was trending on Twitter, accusing the nation’s top infectious disease doctor of lying under oath about the origins of Covid. It became a trending topic on Facebook too, where detractors added an inaccurate and more nefarious framing that the emails were secretly “leaked” — drawing on a playbook that has worked for partisans on the right in the past, despite the fact that Fauci's publicly disclosed emails were not state secrets. . . .

    And a round of conservatives, cherry-picking individual emails out of more than 3,000, argued that Fauci, who leads the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, had privately supported a theory that the virus leaked from a Chinese lab and lied about masks in an effort to amass political power. Neither was true. Fauci has said he thinks it’s more likely that the virus spread from animal to human but would not rule out a lab leak, and while he initially downplayed the need for masks, it was, he said, out of fear that medical professionals would lose access to them if the public began panic purchasing.

    The veracity and velocity of the new attacks, nevertheless, underscored the growing intensity with which Fauci animates conservatives some five months after Trump has left office. . . .

    The publication of Fauci’s emails only further animated Trump’s animus.

    “After seeing the emails, our Country is fortunate I didn’t do what Dr. Fauci wanted me to do. For instance, I closed our Borders to China very early despite his not wanting them closed. The Democrats and the Fake News Media even called me a ‘xenophobe,’” Trump said in a statement Thursday. “In the end, we saw this was a life-saving decision, and likewise with closing our borders to Europe, specifically to certain heavily infected countries. I was later given credit, even by ‘Tony,’ for saving hundreds of thousands of lives.”


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    Case Summary

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    UK Hospitals

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  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I wouldn't mind if the NHS refused to treat unvaccinated people, if that's what was wanted.

    I would happily contract out if I could take my tax money with me.

    That's what we should do. Refuse to treat unvaxxed people (unless they have a valid excuse - medical conditions etc)

    I do not see why my taxpayer's pound should go to treat stupid selfish people who endanger me and my family, when they are ALSO costing me money - and endangering the mental health of us all - by shagging the economy, because of renewed lockdowns.

    Fuck them. Really. Enough
    I am un vaccinated and you would stop me being treated. Fine. As long as I can stop contributing to the NHS. Let me contract out.

    Looking at the post covid, supposedly 'protected' NHS, I really think that's quite a good deal.
    Yes, I would stop you being treated. And you still have to pay your taxes because you are still going to use the NHS aren't you? And it keeps the country going, which you presumably want

    But you don't get treated for Covid, no. You are left to die and we save money. This is brutal stuff now. We are teetering on the edge of another disaster
    No if you are stopping me from being treated from covid then the NHS no longer free at the point of use, so I want a fully contracted out deal.

    No treatment. No payment. Fully private.

    Look at the NHS now. For a service that has been 'protected' it is totally on its knees.
    You can’t “contract out” of the NHS. There is no such thing as private emergency medicine or high dependency units. If you’re in a private hospital, past a certain point they’ll send you on to the NHS.

    So in his terms, his offer is fair - you get the full service for everything except the risk you have chosen to take on Covid.
    Ah does this mean I can ask the NHS to stop treating people who are over 25 stone for diabetes, based on the extra risk they have chosen to take relating to that disease? or stop treating smokers for lung problems on the same basis?

    A choice all the above have made more deliberately made than the choice I made on Covid.

    Especially as it wasn't me that made your freedoms based on hospital numbers.

    Though worth remembering that sweets and almost all takeaway food is taxed whereas vegetables and almost all grocery foods are not.
    And smokers are good for the Exchequer given tobacco duties and the fact they die early so don't claim pensions.

    You being a twunt just because you feel it, isn't taxed.
    That's a fair point.

    Maybe we could consider an 'unvaccinated' insurance premium.....I would pay that.
    Forgotten now - what's your reason for not getting vaccinated?
    I have been bitterly and opposed to government policy on covid since the start.

    It follows therefore that I am doing as little as possible on the government's command that I can get away with.

    That said, I wear a mask, work from home, socially distance and almost never meet people outside my bubble.

    So as little as possible means just about everything then?
    It seems so. Short of injecting into his body a government-mandated substance. Not that.
    It is recommended to inject this into your body, because its been tested and it works and is much safer than risking Covid. But a recommendation is not a mandate.

    The government also recommends you ingest the chemical dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO) too, which can also be known by the alternative name of hydroxic acid. Hydroxic acid is the primary component of acid rain, contributes to the greenhouse effect, and can cause severe burns or even death from overdose. Yet the government recommends it is ingested and it is even given to children in schools.

    If the government recommends DHMO ingestion then do you and @contrarian think that dihydrogen monoxide should be avoided too?
    Sir David Amess MP and cake applies.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,931
    Racing news.

    Snowfall won the Oaks by 16 lengths under Frankie Dettori ("the only good Tory is Frankie Dettori" – John Prescott).

    The Queen will not attend tomorrow's Derby or Royal Ascot, according to the Daily Telegraph (though with the slightly odd proviso that she might attend if she has runners on any particular day).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2021/06/04/queen-miss-epsom-derby/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    UK deaths

    image
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,257
    edited June 2021
    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Gee, I wonder why China might be doing THIS


    "JUST IN - China accuses the U.S. and Japan of running a secret biological warfare development program."



    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1400827649921105920?s=20

    That's basically China admitting they made Covid, and, yup, it was a bioweapon. Soz boz

    No, it's a sign that China will do anything it can to divert attention from any of its actions during the Covid pandemic, and to stir up trouble in the West.

    And that continues to be true whether the virus is natural or not.
    I was being a little flamboyant

    But it does make China look even more guilty. They are panicking. A panicking communist superpower with vast economic and military might and a tendency to crush people with tanks, is not optimal
    I’m repeating this from the other day, the cable from the British ambassador during the Tiananmen Square massacre:

    “ STUDENTS UNDERSTOOD THEY WERE GIVEN ONE HOUR TO LEAVE SQUARE BUT AFTER FIVE MINUTES APCS ATTACKED. STUDENTS LINKED ARMS BUT WERE MOWN DOWN INCLUDING SOLDIERS. APCS THEN RAN OVER BODIES TIME AND TIME AGAIN TO MAKE QUOTE PIE UNQUOTE AND REMAINS COLLECTED BY BULLDOZER. REMAINS INCINERATED AND THEN HOSED DOWN DRAINS.“
    Oh, there's no doubt at all that China is guilty. On a large number of charges.

    But it's not sensible to simply convict the known serial murderer for the stabbing down the road if that leaves the real culprit free to kill again.

    Edit: And China is guilty, for sure, on numerous aspects of Covid, whether or not there's anything in the lab-link theories.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    Age related data

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    Age related data scaled to 100K population

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    CFR

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  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243

    Racing news.

    Snowfall won the Oaks by 16 lengths under Frankie Dettori ("the only good Tory is Frankie Dettori" – John Prescott).

    The Queen will not attend tomorrow's Derby or Royal Ascot, according to the Daily Telegraph (though with the slightly odd proviso that she might attend if she has runners on any particular day).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2021/06/04/queen-miss-epsom-derby/

    Based on the farce that was the 2021 Kentucky Derby, isn't horse racing in the same league as professional wrestling?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    Vaccinations

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    edited June 2021
    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.

    Yes. Vaccination has quite clearly degraded the link between cases and hospitalisation/death.

    EDIT: one to watch is Wales. Vaccine uptake has reached 86% of adults - how high will it go? My guess is that the limit is the 96% we have seen for the oldest groups.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922
    edited June 2021
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Gee, I wonder why China might be doing THIS


    "JUST IN - China accuses the U.S. and Japan of running a secret biological warfare development program."



    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1400827649921105920?s=20

    That's basically China admitting they made Covid, and, yup, it was a bioweapon. Soz boz

    No, it's a sign that China will do anything it can to divert attention from any of its actions during the Covid pandemic, and to stir up trouble in the West.

    And that continues to be true whether the virus is natural or not.
    I was being a little flamboyant

    But it does make China look even more guilty. They are panicking. A panicking communist superpower with vast economic and military might and a tendency to crush people with tanks, is not optimal
    Ahem! CAPITALIST superpower. The CCP is "Communist" in name only!
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I wouldn't mind if the NHS refused to treat unvaccinated people, if that's what was wanted.

    I would happily contract out if I could take my tax money with me.

    That's what we should do. Refuse to treat unvaxxed people (unless they have a valid excuse - medical conditions etc)

    I do not see why my taxpayer's pound should go to treat stupid selfish people who endanger me and my family, when they are ALSO costing me money - and endangering the mental health of us all - by shagging the economy, because of renewed lockdowns.

    Fuck them. Really. Enough
    I am un vaccinated and you would stop me being treated. Fine. As long as I can stop contributing to the NHS. Let me contract out.

    Looking at the post covid, supposedly 'protected' NHS, I really think that's quite a good deal.
    Yes, I would stop you being treated. And you still have to pay your taxes because you are still going to use the NHS aren't you? And it keeps the country going, which you presumably want

    But you don't get treated for Covid, no. You are left to die and we save money. This is brutal stuff now. We are teetering on the edge of another disaster
    No if you are stopping me from being treated from covid then the NHS no longer free at the point of use, so I want a fully contracted out deal.

    No treatment. No payment. Fully private.

    Look at the NHS now. For a service that has been 'protected' it is totally on its knees.
    You can’t “contract out” of the NHS. There is no such thing as private emergency medicine or high dependency units. If you’re in a private hospital, past a certain point they’ll send you on to the NHS.

    So in his terms, his offer is fair - you get the full service for everything except the risk you have chosen to take on Covid.
    Ah does this mean I can ask the NHS to stop treating people who are over 25 stone for diabetes, based on the extra risk they have chosen to take relating to that disease? or stop treating smokers for lung problems on the same basis?

    A choice all the above have made more deliberately made than the choice I made on Covid.

    Especially as it wasn't me that made your freedoms based on hospital numbers.

    Though worth remembering that sweets and almost all takeaway food is taxed whereas vegetables and almost all grocery foods are not.
    And smokers are good for the Exchequer given tobacco duties and the fact they die early so don't claim pensions.

    You being a twunt just because you feel it, isn't taxed.
    That's a fair point.

    Maybe we could consider an 'unvaccinated' insurance premium.....I would pay that.
    Forgotten now - what's your reason for not getting vaccinated?
    I have been bitterly and opposed to government policy on covid since the start.

    It follows therefore that I am doing as little as possible on the government's command that I can get away with.

    That said, I wear a mask, work from home, socially distance and almost never meet people outside my bubble.

    So as little as possible means just about everything then?
    It seems so. Short of injecting into his body a government-mandated substance. Not that.
    It is recommended to inject this into your body, because its been tested and it works and is much safer than risking Covid. But a recommendation is not a mandate.

    The government also recommends you ingest the chemical dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO) too, which can also be known by the alternative name of hydroxic acid. Hydroxic acid is the primary component of acid rain, contributes to the greenhouse effect, and can cause severe burns or even death from overdose. Yet the government recommends it is ingested and it is even given to children in schools.

    If the government recommends DHMO ingestion then do you and @contrarian think that dihydrogen monoxide should be avoided too?
    I think that the government telling people what to put into their bodies is an understandable line too far for some people.
    Again, the government isn't telling people what to put into their bodies, its advising you do.

    The NHS are big pushers of the mantra that people should ingest dihydrogen monoxide.

    If you desire to be contrarian then are you going to refuse to ingest that, simply because the NHS recommends that you should?
    The vaccine is just advice? OK if that's how you are reading it.

    And please stop with all the other "examples". I couldn't give a stuff. I'm just talking about the vaccines. Which the govt is "advising" people to take.

    Lots of adverts with the words "advise" on them I'm sure you will be able to produce.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.

    Yes. Vaccination has quite clearly degraded the link between cases and hospitalisation/death.
    Was just pondering how many aren't cases because they are protected and thus are unable to spread it on?
    I guess we'll never know, but I reckon we'd be back up with a high case rate and rampant R rate by now with a totally unvaxxed population.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    In theory, even if there's a rapid spike in cases it will hit a peak and run out of people to infect, and given the number of people who are vaccinated, it shouldn't translate into many excess deaths.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    edited June 2021
    Strange the way the main media and the headers here, twitter, etc are all obsessed with holidays abroad. In the real world most people are staying at home and ticking the blue box in the polls. Never has the disconnect been so wide.... Strange.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    The more deprived the area, the more the Labour vote fell

    No ages mentioned though @Gardenwalker @Philip_Thompson


  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    @DarrenGBNews
    UK has signed a post-Brexit trade deal with Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein

    Government claim agreement, is worth £21bn and will "slash tariffs on high-quality British food and farm products and support jobs in every area of our country"


    https://twitter.com/DarrenGBNews/status/1400845638510813192
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.

    Yes. Vaccination has quite clearly degraded the link between cases and hospitalisation/death.
    Was just pondering how many aren't cases because they are protected and thus are unable to spread it on?
    I guess we'll never know, but I reckon we'd be back up with a high case rate and rampant R rate by now with a totally unvaxxed population.
    Well of course we would. And that would probably be true with or without the Delta variant. But that was the whole point of vaccines, which we knew we had and we well advanced at delivering when we began to emerge from lockdown, so it’s a moot point. If anything what it also shows is that it was the May17th change was the big “risk” point.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    felix said:

    Strange the way the main media and the headers here, twitter, etc are all obsessed with holidays abroad. In the real world most people are staying at home and ticking the blue box in the polls. Never has the disconnect been so wide.... Strange.

    I met up with a friend yesterday - one of those people whose life revolves around holidays. Lots of planning to go to interesting places, getting the best air miles etc... tons of friends to visit round the world.

    He hasn't the slightest interest in going away this year. Waiting till next year...
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    @DarrenGBNews
    UK has signed a post-Brexit trade deal with Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein

    Government claim agreement, is worth £21bn and will "slash tariffs on high-quality British food and farm products and support jobs in every area of our country"


    https://twitter.com/DarrenGBNews/status/1400845638510813192

    Cod back on the menu?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Edinburgh Case numbers going well


  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    @DarrenGBNews
    UK has signed a post-Brexit trade deal with Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein

    Government claim agreement, is worth £21bn and will "slash tariffs on high-quality British food and farm products and support jobs in every area of our country"


    https://twitter.com/DarrenGBNews/status/1400845638510813192

    Sounds like it goes further than the deal we had with them as EU members too?

    Liz Truss really has done a fantastic job, and Brexit is really going as well as I could have hoped for.
  • pingping Posts: 3,724

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    We dont yet know for sure that is because of the vaccines, though, do we? It could be increased transmission in the younger groups not (yet) feeding through to older groups for some other reason.

    I agree it looks promising, but I’m still holding onto me underpants….
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    felix said:

    Strange the way the main media and the headers here, twitter, etc are all obsessed with holidays abroad. In the real world most people are staying at home and ticking the blue box in the polls. Never has the disconnect been so wide.... Strange.

    Majority are voting Conservative in UK elections? Really?

    And media is not a reflection of "the real world"? Really?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I wouldn't mind if the NHS refused to treat unvaccinated people, if that's what was wanted.

    I would happily contract out if I could take my tax money with me.

    That's what we should do. Refuse to treat unvaxxed people (unless they have a valid excuse - medical conditions etc)

    I do not see why my taxpayer's pound should go to treat stupid selfish people who endanger me and my family, when they are ALSO costing me money - and endangering the mental health of us all - by shagging the economy, because of renewed lockdowns.

    Fuck them. Really. Enough
    I am un vaccinated and you would stop me being treated. Fine. As long as I can stop contributing to the NHS. Let me contract out.

    Looking at the post covid, supposedly 'protected' NHS, I really think that's quite a good deal.
    Yes, I would stop you being treated. And you still have to pay your taxes because you are still going to use the NHS aren't you? And it keeps the country going, which you presumably want

    But you don't get treated for Covid, no. You are left to die and we save money. This is brutal stuff now. We are teetering on the edge of another disaster
    No if you are stopping me from being treated from covid then the NHS no longer free at the point of use, so I want a fully contracted out deal.

    No treatment. No payment. Fully private.

    Look at the NHS now. For a service that has been 'protected' it is totally on its knees.
    You can’t “contract out” of the NHS. There is no such thing as private emergency medicine or high dependency units. If you’re in a private hospital, past a certain point they’ll send you on to the NHS.

    So in his terms, his offer is fair - you get the full service for everything except the risk you have chosen to take on Covid.
    Ah does this mean I can ask the NHS to stop treating people who are over 25 stone for diabetes, based on the extra risk they have chosen to take relating to that disease? or stop treating smokers for lung problems on the same basis?

    A choice all the above have made more deliberately made than the choice I made on Covid.

    Especially as it wasn't me that made your freedoms based on hospital numbers.

    Though worth remembering that sweets and almost all takeaway food is taxed whereas vegetables and almost all grocery foods are not.
    And smokers are good for the Exchequer given tobacco duties and the fact they die early so don't claim pensions.

    You being a twunt just because you feel it, isn't taxed.
    That's a fair point.

    Maybe we could consider an 'unvaccinated' insurance premium.....I would pay that.
    Forgotten now - what's your reason for not getting vaccinated?
    I have been bitterly and opposed to government policy on covid since the start.

    It follows therefore that I am doing as little as possible on the government's command that I can get away with.

    That said, I wear a mask, work from home, socially distance and almost never meet people outside my bubble.

    So as little as possible means just about everything then?
    It seems so. Short of injecting into his body a government-mandated substance. Not that.
    It is recommended to inject this into your body, because its been tested and it works and is much safer than risking Covid. But a recommendation is not a mandate.

    The government also recommends you ingest the chemical dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO) too, which can also be known by the alternative name of hydroxic acid. Hydroxic acid is the primary component of acid rain, contributes to the greenhouse effect, and can cause severe burns or even death from overdose. Yet the government recommends it is ingested and it is even given to children in schools.

    If the government recommends DHMO ingestion then do you and @contrarian think that dihydrogen monoxide should be avoided too?
    I think that the government telling people what to put into their bodies is an understandable line too far for some people.
    Again, the government isn't telling people what to put into their bodies, its advising you do.

    The NHS are big pushers of the mantra that people should ingest dihydrogen monoxide.

    If you desire to be contrarian then are you going to refuse to ingest that, simply because the NHS recommends that you should?
    The vaccine is just advice? OK if that's how you are reading it.

    And please stop with all the other "examples". I couldn't give a stuff. I'm just talking about the vaccines. Which the govt is "advising" people to take.

    Lots of adverts with the words "advise" on them I'm sure you will be able to produce.
    Of course its advice, its very good advice too.

    Its not a legal requirement which is what mandating people to do something means.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    isam said:

    The more deprived the area, the more the Labour vote fell

    No ages mentioned though @Gardenwalker @Philip_Thompson


    They're not really gaining in the least deprived wards either - which would be a sign of realignment.

    Just piss poor tbh
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I wouldn't mind if the NHS refused to treat unvaccinated people, if that's what was wanted.

    I would happily contract out if I could take my tax money with me.

    That's what we should do. Refuse to treat unvaxxed people (unless they have a valid excuse - medical conditions etc)

    I do not see why my taxpayer's pound should go to treat stupid selfish people who endanger me and my family, when they are ALSO costing me money - and endangering the mental health of us all - by shagging the economy, because of renewed lockdowns.

    Fuck them. Really. Enough
    I am un vaccinated and you would stop me being treated. Fine. As long as I can stop contributing to the NHS. Let me contract out.

    Looking at the post covid, supposedly 'protected' NHS, I really think that's quite a good deal.
    Yes, I would stop you being treated. And you still have to pay your taxes because you are still going to use the NHS aren't you? And it keeps the country going, which you presumably want

    But you don't get treated for Covid, no. You are left to die and we save money. This is brutal stuff now. We are teetering on the edge of another disaster
    No if you are stopping me from being treated from covid then the NHS no longer free at the point of use, so I want a fully contracted out deal.

    No treatment. No payment. Fully private.

    Look at the NHS now. For a service that has been 'protected' it is totally on its knees.
    You can’t “contract out” of the NHS. There is no such thing as private emergency medicine or high dependency units. If you’re in a private hospital, past a certain point they’ll send you on to the NHS.

    So in his terms, his offer is fair - you get the full service for everything except the risk you have chosen to take on Covid.
    Ah does this mean I can ask the NHS to stop treating people who are over 25 stone for diabetes, based on the extra risk they have chosen to take relating to that disease? or stop treating smokers for lung problems on the same basis?

    A choice all the above have made more deliberately made than the choice I made on Covid.

    Especially as it wasn't me that made your freedoms based on hospital numbers.

    Though worth remembering that sweets and almost all takeaway food is taxed whereas vegetables and almost all grocery foods are not.
    And smokers are good for the Exchequer given tobacco duties and the fact they die early so don't claim pensions.

    You being a twunt just because you feel it, isn't taxed.
    That's a fair point.

    Maybe we could consider an 'unvaccinated' insurance premium.....I would pay that.
    Forgotten now - what's your reason for not getting vaccinated?
    I have been bitterly and opposed to government policy on covid since the start.

    It follows therefore that I am doing as little as possible on the government's command that I can get away with.

    That said, I wear a mask, work from home, socially distance and almost never meet people outside my bubble.

    So as little as possible means just about everything then?
    It seems so. Short of injecting into his body a government-mandated substance. Not that.
    It is recommended to inject this into your body, because its been tested and it works and is much safer than risking Covid. But a recommendation is not a mandate.

    The government also recommends you ingest the chemical dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO) too, which can also be known by the alternative name of hydroxic acid. Hydroxic acid is the primary component of acid rain, contributes to the greenhouse effect, and can cause severe burns or even death from overdose. Yet the government recommends it is ingested and it is even given to children in schools.

    If the government recommends DHMO ingestion then do you and @contrarian think that dihydrogen monoxide should be avoided too?
    I think that the government telling people what to put into their bodies is an understandable line too far for some people.
    Again, the government isn't telling people what to put into their bodies, its advising you do.

    The NHS are big pushers of the mantra that people should ingest dihydrogen monoxide.

    If you desire to be contrarian then are you going to refuse to ingest that, simply because the NHS recommends that you should?
    The vaccine is just advice? OK if that's how you are reading it.

    And please stop with all the other "examples". I couldn't give a stuff. I'm just talking about the vaccines. Which the govt is "advising" people to take.

    Lots of adverts with the words "advise" on them I'm sure you will be able to produce.
    Of course its advice, its very good advice too.

    Its not a legal requirement which is what mandating people to do something means.
    No it's not a legal requirement. Thank goodness. But if it was (eg vaccine passports) people would be cheering on here.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    As predicted by (others) on here they're going with Step 3.5 (more like 3.2 really) rather than Step 4 -

    "June 21 restrictions: Plans to redraw roadmap include social distancing, home working and masks"

    https://inews.co.uk/news/june-21-restrictions-social-distancing-working-from-home-masks-may-remain-redraw-roadmap-1035947
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    Politico.com - Bargain hunters pounce as Trump condo prices hit decade lows
    It’s a stunning reversal for a brand that once lured the rich and famous willing to pay a premium to live in a building with Trump’s gilded name on it.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/04/trump-condo-prices-hit-decade-lows-491905

    The building has stunning Manhattan skyline views, its spa offers deep-tissue massages, and the fancy restaurant off the lobby serves up prime steaks. Best of all, many apartments at the Trump World Tower are selling at a deep discount — assuming the buyer doesn’t mind the name over the door.

    “Fifty percent of the people wouldn’t want to live in a Trump building for any reason ... but then there are guys like me,” says Lou Sollecito, a car dealer who recently bought a two-bedroom unit with views of the Empire State Building. “It’s a super buy.”

    The purchase price was $3 million, nearly a million less than the seller paid in 2008.

    Bargain hunters are swooping in to take advantage of prices in Trump buildings that have dropped to levels not seen in over a decade, a crash brokers attribute to a combination of the former president's polarizing image and the coronavirus pandemic. It’s a stunning reversal for a brand that once lured the rich and famous willing to pay a premium to live in a building with Trump’s gilded name on it.

    An Associated Press review of more than 4,000 transactions over the past 15 years in 11 Trump-branded buildings in Chicago, Honolulu, Las Vegas and New York found prices for some condos and hotel rooms available for purchase have dropped by one-third or more.

    That’s a plunge that outpaces drops in many similar buildings, leaving units for sale in Trump buildings to be had for hundreds of thousands to up to a million dollars less than they would have gone for years ago. . . .
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Clueless;

    HEALTH Secretary Humza Yousaf has been forced to apologise for scaring families after wrongly claiming 10 young children had been hospitalised “because of Covid” and was accused of “stoking fear”.

    Mr Yousaf said he never meant “to cause undue alarm amongst parents” when he used the figure on Wednesday to warn against travelling to councils where soft play areas are open.

    As well as stating incorrectly that there were 10 young children children admitted to hospital last week “because of Covid”, he warned that travelling from a level 2 area to a soft play facility in a level 1 area “could lead to hospitalisation of children”.


    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19349031.humza-yousaf-issues-regret-child-covid-hospitalisations-mistake/?ref=twtrec
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I wouldn't mind if the NHS refused to treat unvaccinated people, if that's what was wanted.

    I would happily contract out if I could take my tax money with me.

    That's what we should do. Refuse to treat unvaxxed people (unless they have a valid excuse - medical conditions etc)

    I do not see why my taxpayer's pound should go to treat stupid selfish people who endanger me and my family, when they are ALSO costing me money - and endangering the mental health of us all - by shagging the economy, because of renewed lockdowns.

    Fuck them. Really. Enough
    I am un vaccinated and you would stop me being treated. Fine. As long as I can stop contributing to the NHS. Let me contract out.

    Looking at the post covid, supposedly 'protected' NHS, I really think that's quite a good deal.
    Yes, I would stop you being treated. And you still have to pay your taxes because you are still going to use the NHS aren't you? And it keeps the country going, which you presumably want

    But you don't get treated for Covid, no. You are left to die and we save money. This is brutal stuff now. We are teetering on the edge of another disaster
    No if you are stopping me from being treated from covid then the NHS no longer free at the point of use, so I want a fully contracted out deal.

    No treatment. No payment. Fully private.

    Look at the NHS now. For a service that has been 'protected' it is totally on its knees.
    You can’t “contract out” of the NHS. There is no such thing as private emergency medicine or high dependency units. If you’re in a private hospital, past a certain point they’ll send you on to the NHS.

    So in his terms, his offer is fair - you get the full service for everything except the risk you have chosen to take on Covid.
    Ah does this mean I can ask the NHS to stop treating people who are over 25 stone for diabetes, based on the extra risk they have chosen to take relating to that disease? or stop treating smokers for lung problems on the same basis?

    A choice all the above have made more deliberately made than the choice I made on Covid.

    Especially as it wasn't me that made your freedoms based on hospital numbers.

    Though worth remembering that sweets and almost all takeaway food is taxed whereas vegetables and almost all grocery foods are not.
    And smokers are good for the Exchequer given tobacco duties and the fact they die early so don't claim pensions.

    You being a twunt just because you feel it, isn't taxed.
    That's a fair point.

    Maybe we could consider an 'unvaccinated' insurance premium.....I would pay that.
    Forgotten now - what's your reason for not getting vaccinated?
    I have been bitterly and opposed to government policy on covid since the start.

    It follows therefore that I am doing as little as possible on the government's command that I can get away with.

    That said, I wear a mask, work from home, socially distance and almost never meet people outside my bubble.

    So as little as possible means just about everything then?
    It seems so. Short of injecting into his body a government-mandated substance. Not that.
    It is recommended to inject this into your body, because its been tested and it works and is much safer than risking Covid. But a recommendation is not a mandate.

    The government also recommends you ingest the chemical dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO) too, which can also be known by the alternative name of hydroxic acid. Hydroxic acid is the primary component of acid rain, contributes to the greenhouse effect, and can cause severe burns or even death from overdose. Yet the government recommends it is ingested and it is even given to children in schools.

    If the government recommends DHMO ingestion then do you and @contrarian think that dihydrogen monoxide should be avoided too?
    I think that the government telling people what to put into their bodies is an understandable line too far for some people.
    Again, the government isn't telling people what to put into their bodies, its advising you do.

    The NHS are big pushers of the mantra that people should ingest dihydrogen monoxide.

    If you desire to be contrarian then are you going to refuse to ingest that, simply because the NHS recommends that you should?
    The vaccine is just advice? OK if that's how you are reading it.

    And please stop with all the other "examples". I couldn't give a stuff. I'm just talking about the vaccines. Which the govt is "advising" people to take.

    Lots of adverts with the words "advise" on them I'm sure you will be able to produce.
    Of course its advice, its very good advice too.

    Its not a legal requirement which is what mandating people to do something means.
    No it's not a legal requirement. Thank goodness. But if it was (eg vaccine passports) people would be cheering on here.
    Funny, the impression I got here was that barring international travel (where destination countries all around the world are demanding it) that a domestic use of vaccine passports was about as popular here as genital warts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,759
    Whoops. How to be a complete fool.

    Drug dealers caught after undertaking police on M6 hard shoulder
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-57358040

    The moral of this story is: if you’ve got drugs on you, don’t drive like an arse and attract police attention.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    Racing news.

    Snowfall won the Oaks by 16 lengths under Frankie Dettori ("the only good Tory is Frankie Dettori" – John Prescott).

    The Queen will not attend tomorrow's Derby or Royal Ascot, according to the Daily Telegraph (though with the slightly odd proviso that she might attend if she has runners on any particular day).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2021/06/04/queen-miss-epsom-derby/

    Dettori also won the 1G by miles on an AOB filly. Ryan Moore must be well pissed off.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,931

    Racing news.

    Snowfall won the Oaks by 16 lengths under Frankie Dettori ("the only good Tory is Frankie Dettori" – John Prescott).

    The Queen will not attend tomorrow's Derby or Royal Ascot, according to the Daily Telegraph (though with the slightly odd proviso that she might attend if she has runners on any particular day).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2021/06/04/queen-miss-epsom-derby/

    Based on the farce that was the 2021 Kentucky Derby, isn't horse racing in the same league as professional wrestling?
    That was American racing. How long is it since the President attended a race meeting? I've a vague recollection George HW Bush used to.

    One hopes HMQ is OK. Is she alone now, after 70-odd years' marriage, and Covid meaning the normal public events she'd have attended were all cancelled, rattling around Buckingham Palace with no-one to talk to apart from Boris once a week?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Cases up, but admissions & deaths still flat/drifting down:


  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I wouldn't mind if the NHS refused to treat unvaccinated people, if that's what was wanted.

    I would happily contract out if I could take my tax money with me.

    That's what we should do. Refuse to treat unvaxxed people (unless they have a valid excuse - medical conditions etc)

    I do not see why my taxpayer's pound should go to treat stupid selfish people who endanger me and my family, when they are ALSO costing me money - and endangering the mental health of us all - by shagging the economy, because of renewed lockdowns.

    Fuck them. Really. Enough
    I am un vaccinated and you would stop me being treated. Fine. As long as I can stop contributing to the NHS. Let me contract out.

    Looking at the post covid, supposedly 'protected' NHS, I really think that's quite a good deal.
    Yes, I would stop you being treated. And you still have to pay your taxes because you are still going to use the NHS aren't you? And it keeps the country going, which you presumably want

    But you don't get treated for Covid, no. You are left to die and we save money. This is brutal stuff now. We are teetering on the edge of another disaster
    No if you are stopping me from being treated from covid then the NHS no longer free at the point of use, so I want a fully contracted out deal.

    No treatment. No payment. Fully private.

    Look at the NHS now. For a service that has been 'protected' it is totally on its knees.
    You can’t “contract out” of the NHS. There is no such thing as private emergency medicine or high dependency units. If you’re in a private hospital, past a certain point they’ll send you on to the NHS.

    So in his terms, his offer is fair - you get the full service for everything except the risk you have chosen to take on Covid.
    Ah does this mean I can ask the NHS to stop treating people who are over 25 stone for diabetes, based on the extra risk they have chosen to take relating to that disease? or stop treating smokers for lung problems on the same basis?

    A choice all the above have made more deliberately made than the choice I made on Covid.

    Especially as it wasn't me that made your freedoms based on hospital numbers.

    Though worth remembering that sweets and almost all takeaway food is taxed whereas vegetables and almost all grocery foods are not.
    And smokers are good for the Exchequer given tobacco duties and the fact they die early so don't claim pensions.

    You being a twunt just because you feel it, isn't taxed.
    That's a fair point.

    Maybe we could consider an 'unvaccinated' insurance premium.....I would pay that.
    Forgotten now - what's your reason for not getting vaccinated?
    I have been bitterly and opposed to government policy on covid since the start.

    It follows therefore that I am doing as little as possible on the government's command that I can get away with.

    That said, I wear a mask, work from home, socially distance and almost never meet people outside my bubble.

    So as little as possible means just about everything then?
    It seems so. Short of injecting into his body a government-mandated substance. Not that.
    It is recommended to inject this into your body, because its been tested and it works and is much safer than risking Covid. But a recommendation is not a mandate.

    The government also recommends you ingest the chemical dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO) too, which can also be known by the alternative name of hydroxic acid. Hydroxic acid is the primary component of acid rain, contributes to the greenhouse effect, and can cause severe burns or even death from overdose. Yet the government recommends it is ingested and it is even given to children in schools.

    If the government recommends DHMO ingestion then do you and @contrarian think that dihydrogen monoxide should be avoided too?
    I think that the government telling people what to put into their bodies is an understandable line too far for some people.
    Again, the government isn't telling people what to put into their bodies, its advising you do.

    The NHS are big pushers of the mantra that people should ingest dihydrogen monoxide.

    If you desire to be contrarian then are you going to refuse to ingest that, simply because the NHS recommends that you should?
    The vaccine is just advice? OK if that's how you are reading it.

    And please stop with all the other "examples". I couldn't give a stuff. I'm just talking about the vaccines. Which the govt is "advising" people to take.

    Lots of adverts with the words "advise" on them I'm sure you will be able to produce.
    Is it a step too far for these twunts to not bother with a measles vax for their kids too ?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    ping said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    We dont yet know for sure that is because of the vaccines, though, do we? It could be increased transmission in the younger groups not (yet) feeding through to older groups for some other reason.

    I agree it looks promising, but I’m still holding onto me underpants….
    Occasionally razor says it’s the vaccine.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    ping said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    We dont yet know for sure that is because of the vaccines, though, do we? It could be increased transmission in the younger groups not (yet) feeding through to older groups for some other reason.

    I agree it looks promising, but I’m still holding onto me underpants….
    Occasionally razor says it’s the vaccine.
    Occasionally razor? Sounds like a racehorse.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    Vaterland.li online - (English translation) Market access guaranteed - Negotiations with UK successfully concluded

    https://www.vaterland.li/liechtenstein/politik/verhandlungen-mit-uk-erfolgreich-abgeschlossen;art169,448338

    Negotiations with the United Kingdom for a comprehensive free trade agreement were successfully concluded. The agreement secures Liechtenstein economic players equivalent market access in the UK compared to the EU and creates legal certainty and transparency.

    The free trade agreement that Liechtenstein negotiated with Norway and Iceland completes the reorganization of economic relations with the UK. In addition to cross-border trade in services, including financial services, it also includes areas such as investments, protection of intellectual property, digital trade, capital movements and public procurement. In particular, the agreement prevents discrimination against companies from the EU and offers Liechtenstein economic players preferential market access compared to countries that do not have an agreement with the UK.

    When the UK left the EU, it left the common internal market and became a third country. For more than 25 years, the European Economic Area (EEA) formed the legal basis for economic relations between Liechtenstein and the UK. With the UK leaving the EU or the EEA, Liechtenstein had to create a new legal basis for its relations with the UK. With regard to the movement of goods, security for export-oriented Liechtenstein companies was created at a very early stage with the signing of the additional agreement to the trade agreement between Switzerland and the UK in February 2019. This additional agreement, which entered into force on January 1, 2021,

    [Liechtenstein] Government councilor Dominique Hasler was pleased with the conclusion of the negotiations. "The agreement provides an excellent basis for continuing our close economic relationships and expanding them in the future," said Government Councilor Hasler. She recognizes this milestone in the relations between Liechtenstein and the UK and expressly thanks the negotiating delegation made up of representatives from the Office for Foreign Affairs and the Mission in Geneva for their commitment over the past few months.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    People in Labour attacking Howard Beckett forgot something at your peril. He is a trained lawyer

    Reply:

    A trained lawyer specialising in conveyancing. If you want to sell or buy a home, talk to Howard.

    https://twitter.com/adamlangleben/status/1400844215119138818?s=20
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    DougSeal said:

    As predicted by (others) on here they're going with Step 3.5 (more like 3.2 really) rather than Step 4 -

    "June 21 restrictions: Plans to redraw roadmap include social distancing, home working and masks"

    https://inews.co.uk/news/june-21-restrictions-social-distancing-working-from-home-masks-may-remain-redraw-roadmap-1035947

    June 21st: “FREEDOM!”... to order a drink at the bar. Wearing a mask. In a queue of no more than 3 people.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    DougSeal said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    We dont yet know for sure that is because of the vaccines, though, do we? It could be increased transmission in the younger groups not (yet) feeding through to older groups for some other reason.

    I agree it looks promising, but I’m still holding onto me underpants….
    Occasionally razor says it’s the vaccine.
    Occasionally razor? Sounds like a racehorse.
    Damn autocorrect! Occam’s razor...
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,493

    @DarrenGBNews
    UK has signed a post-Brexit trade deal with Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein

    Government claim agreement, is worth £21bn and will "slash tariffs on high-quality British food and farm products and support jobs in every area of our country"


    https://twitter.com/DarrenGBNews/status/1400845638510813192

    Sounds like it goes further than the deal we had with them as EU members too?

    Liz Truss really has done a fantastic job, and Brexit is really going as well as I could have hoped for.
    ‘David Henig, a former UK government trade official who is now director of the UK Trade Policy Project, said: “This UK-EEA free trade agreement provides better trading conditions than World Trade Organization terms, though with considerably more trade barriers when compared with the previous single market relationship.

    “There are some useful provisions for UK business such as on professional qualifications or digital trade, but there will also be many difficulties as we see with the similar UK-EU trade and cooperation agreement. Overall this is quite a standard free trade agreement, with limited economic value.”’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/04/uk-strikes-trade-deal-norway-iceland-liechtenstein-liz-truss
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,759

    Clueless;

    HEALTH Secretary Humza Yousaf has been forced to apologise for scaring families after wrongly claiming 10 young children had been hospitalised “because of Covid” and was accused of “stoking fear”.

    Mr Yousaf said he never meant “to cause undue alarm amongst parents” when he used the figure on Wednesday to warn against travelling to councils where soft play areas are open.

    As well as stating incorrectly that there were 10 young children children admitted to hospital last week “because of Covid”, he warned that travelling from a level 2 area to a soft play facility in a level 1 area “could lead to hospitalisation of children”.


    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19349031.humza-yousaf-issues-regret-child-covid-hospitalisations-mistake/?ref=twtrec

    Thank God he didn’t end up at education, especially in light of today’s news. Can you imagine the damage he would have done?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,759

    DougSeal said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    We dont yet know for sure that is because of the vaccines, though, do we? It could be increased transmission in the younger groups not (yet) feeding through to older groups for some other reason.

    I agree it looks promising, but I’m still holding onto me underpants….
    Occasionally razor says it’s the vaccine.
    Occasionally razor? Sounds like a racehorse.
    Damn autocorrect! Occam’s razor...
    Autocorrect’s sometimes sharp.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    Which is why I'm not seeing much of a threat to the roadmap. I'll be surprised if serious domestic legal restrictions persist beyond 21st June.
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483

    Racing news.

    Snowfall won the Oaks by 16 lengths under Frankie Dettori ("the only good Tory is Frankie Dettori" – John Prescott).

    The Queen will not attend tomorrow's Derby or Royal Ascot, according to the Daily Telegraph (though with the slightly odd proviso that she might attend if she has runners on any particular day).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2021/06/04/queen-miss-epsom-derby/

    Based on the farce that was the 2021 Kentucky Derby, isn't horse racing in the same league as professional wrestling?
    That was American racing. How long is it since the President attended a race meeting? I've a vague recollection George HW Bush used to.

    One hopes HMQ is OK. Is she alone now, after 70-odd years' marriage, and Covid meaning the normal public events she'd have attended were all cancelled, rattling around Buckingham Palace with no-one to talk to apart from Boris once a week?
    The Queen has no runners at Epsom tomorrow, if she has any at Royal Ascot then as an owner she is entitled to attend (she also owns Ascot and could attend anyway).
    There won't be the traditional carriage procession down the course but it's only a few miles from Windsor, she could get her chauffeur to run her down there.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,759
    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    Which is why I'm not seeing much of a threat to the roadmap. I'll be surprised if serious domestic legal restrictions persist beyond 21st June.
    The other issue is, will people obey them? We all obeyed lockdowns because - a few nutters apart - we all saw it was needed and was about the only thing to do if hundreds of thousands more weren’t to die.

    But if somebody tells me I have to wear a mask because some drug addled fool on Indie Sage thinks there might potentially be a problem if I don’t?

    I think it’s optimistic to assume that will be followed.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243

    Racing news.

    Snowfall won the Oaks by 16 lengths under Frankie Dettori ("the only good Tory is Frankie Dettori" – John Prescott).

    The Queen will not attend tomorrow's Derby or Royal Ascot, according to the Daily Telegraph (though with the slightly odd proviso that she might attend if she has runners on any particular day).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2021/06/04/queen-miss-epsom-derby/

    Based on the farce that was the 2021 Kentucky Derby, isn't horse racing in the same league as professional wrestling?
    That was American racing. How long is it since the President attended a race meeting? I've a vague recollection George HW Bush used to.

    One hopes HMQ is OK. Is she alone now, after 70-odd years' marriage, and Covid meaning the normal public events she'd have attended were all cancelled, rattling around Buckingham Palace with no-one to talk to apart from Boris once a week?
    Share your sentiment re: Her Majesty.

    Re: UK horseracing, are you sure that, in stark contrast to US, it's as honest as the day (or the track) is long?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    One of the interesting things in the UK-EEA deal is it DOES include provisions covering touring musicians/artists and their crew.

    UK: 90 days within 6 month period
    Nor: 90 days in 180 days
    Ice: tbc
    Lie: up to 3m within 6 m


    https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1400854000036159498?s=20
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    alex_ said:

    DougSeal said:

    As predicted by (others) on here they're going with Step 3.5 (more like 3.2 really) rather than Step 4 -

    "June 21 restrictions: Plans to redraw roadmap include social distancing, home working and masks"

    https://inews.co.uk/news/june-21-restrictions-social-distancing-working-from-home-masks-may-remain-redraw-roadmap-1035947

    June 21st: “FREEDOM!”... to order a drink at the bar. Wearing a mask. In a queue of no more than 3 people.
    What also makes no sense about this report is the suggestion that there will be a rowing back (“that hospitality will accept”) to prevent a full lockdown in the autumn. But why would there be a full lockdown in the autumn? If the issue is the variant and case numbers then we will be in a full lockdown by the middle of July on current trends! And if we’re not then the vaccine will have worked and it’s not clear why we would suddenly have a problem in September. Which we’ll have anyway if we do.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    DougSeal said:

    As predicted by (others) on here they're going with Step 3.5 (more like 3.2 really) rather than Step 4 -

    "June 21 restrictions: Plans to redraw roadmap include social distancing, home working and masks"

    https://inews.co.uk/news/june-21-restrictions-social-distancing-working-from-home-masks-may-remain-redraw-roadmap-1035947

    June 21st: “FREEDOM!”... to order a drink at the bar. Wearing a mask. In a queue of no more than 3 people.
    What also makes no sense about this report is the suggestion that there will be a rowing back (“that hospitality will accept”) to prevent a full lockdown in the autumn. But why would there be a full lockdown in the autumn? If the issue is the variant and case numbers then we will be in a full lockdown by the middle of July on current trends! And if we’re not then the vaccine will have worked and it’s not clear why we would suddenly have a problem in September. Which we’ll have anyway if we do.
    Never listen to unnamed sources

    If they are not identified then it is unsubstantiated rumour and unreliable
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    Which is why I'm not seeing much of a threat to the roadmap. I'll be surprised if serious domestic legal restrictions persist beyond 21st June.
    The other issue is, will people obey them? We all obeyed lockdowns because - a few nutters apart - we all saw it was needed and was about the only thing to do if hundreds of thousands more weren’t to die.

    But if somebody tells me I have to wear a mask because some drug addled fool on Indie Sage thinks there might potentially be a problem if I don’t?

    I think it’s optimistic to assume that will be followed.
    You could tell the country, "Ok, no legal restrictions now, apart from international travel, so start living your life again, but please take care, the risk is not zero, especially if you've not been vaccinated, and please do get vaccinated, because this disease is still around, and it's still nasty."

    That's the sort of message I'd like to hear from the magnificent muscly man.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184
    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    Which is why I'm not seeing much of a threat to the roadmap. I'll be surprised if serious domestic legal restrictions persist beyond 21st June.
    I'm glad you're keeping the faith. Because faced with a weak willed government advised by a monomaniacal sage, harangued by the insane gang of nihilists at isage, cheered on by the BBC and Sky and the opposition, when the deign to venture an opinion, it's very difficult to believe June 22nd will look any freer than June 20th.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    Which is why I'm not seeing much of a threat to the roadmap. I'll be surprised if serious domestic legal restrictions persist beyond 21st June.
    I'm glad you're keeping the faith. Because faced with a weak willed government advised by a monomaniacal sage, harangued by the insane gang of nihilists at isage, cheered on by the BBC and Sky and the opposition, when the deign to venture an opinion, it's very difficult to believe June 22nd will look any freer than June 20th.
    It really won't.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,759
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    Which is why I'm not seeing much of a threat to the roadmap. I'll be surprised if serious domestic legal restrictions persist beyond 21st June.
    The other issue is, will people obey them? We all obeyed lockdowns because - a few nutters apart - we all saw it was needed and was about the only thing to do if hundreds of thousands more weren’t to die.

    But if somebody tells me I have to wear a mask because some drug addled fool on Indie Sage thinks there might potentially be a problem if I don’t?

    I think it’s optimistic to assume that will be followed.
    You could tell the country, "Ok, no legal restrictions now, apart from international travel, so start living your life again, but please take care, the risk is not zero, especially if you've not been vaccinated, and please do get vaccinated, because this disease is still around, and it's still nasty."

    That's the sort of message I'd like to hear from the magnificent muscly man.
    Well, that would be good, but what do you want to hear from Boris Johnson?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    Poltico.com - Trump will remain off Facebook for at least two years
    The announcement comes its oversight board criticized the former president's indefinite ban.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/04/trump-facebook-ban-two-years-return-491908
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,748
    edited June 2021
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    Which is why I'm not seeing much of a threat to the roadmap. I'll be surprised if serious domestic legal restrictions persist beyond 21st June.
    The other issue is, will people obey them? We all obeyed lockdowns because - a few nutters apart - we all saw it was needed and was about the only thing to do if hundreds of thousands more weren’t to die.

    But if somebody tells me I have to wear a mask because some drug addled fool on Indie Sage thinks there might potentially be a problem if I don’t?

    I think it’s optimistic to assume that will be followed.
    I've seen a lot of mask refuseniks over the past week. Loads of people on the tube and trains just not obeying the rules. The £6400 fine makes me smile. How is that a proportionate response to the issue? It just goes to show that the government got drunk on power, as they inevitably would in the situation they found themselves in. The rules must be lifted, or else it will never end as there will always be a reason to protect the NHS.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,759
    darkage said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    Which is why I'm not seeing much of a threat to the roadmap. I'll be surprised if serious domestic legal restrictions persist beyond 21st June.
    The other issue is, will people obey them? We all obeyed lockdowns because - a few nutters apart - we all saw it was needed and was about the only thing to do if hundreds of thousands more weren’t to die.

    But if somebody tells me I have to wear a mask because some drug addled fool on Indie Sage thinks there might potentially be a problem if I don’t?

    I think it’s optimistic to assume that will be followed.
    I've seen a lot of mask refuseniks over the past week. Loads of people on the tube and trains just not obeying the rules. The £6400 fine makes me smile. How is that a proportionate response to the issue? It just goes to show that the government got drunk on power, as they inevitably would in the situation they found themselves in. The rules must be lifted, or else it will never end as there will always be a reason to protect the NHS.
    You can’t fine someone for not wearing a mask. Anyone can declare themselves exempt and cannot, by law, be ordered to show proof of exemption.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Pretty provocative UFO comments from a former Deputy Assistance Secretary of Defense. OK he's not Obama, but still a serious military guy



    ""These objects appear to exceed our military capabilities," said Mick Mulroy, an ABC News contributor and a former deputy assistant secretary of defense. ""We need to determine who this is and what capabilities they possess. It is never a good thing to discover you are vastly behind in technology."

    ""From a national security perspective, we cannot presume benevolence," he added. "Whether terrestrial in origin or not.""

    Or not??

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/upcoming-ufo-report-congress-creating-lots-buzz/story?id=78017649
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    Which is why I'm not seeing much of a threat to the roadmap. I'll be surprised if serious domestic legal restrictions persist beyond 21st June.
    I'm glad you're keeping the faith. Because faced with a weak willed government advised by a monomaniacal sage, harangued by the insane gang of nihilists at isage, cheered on by the BBC and Sky and the opposition, when the deign to venture an opinion, it's very difficult to believe June 22nd will look any freer than June 20th.
    Well we'll soon find out. I can imagine one or two measures sticking around for a while longer - just to be on the safe side - but if they decide on a serious deferral of the 'unlock', I really will be very surprised indeed.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    Poltico.com - Trump will remain off Facebook for at least two years
    The announcement comes its oversight board criticized the former president's indefinite ban.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/04/trump-facebook-ban-two-years-return-491908

    I'm still getting my head around a world in which Nick Clegg has power over former President Donald Trump
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,748
    ydoethur said:

    Clueless;

    HEALTH Secretary Humza Yousaf has been forced to apologise for scaring families after wrongly claiming 10 young children had been hospitalised “because of Covid” and was accused of “stoking fear”.

    Mr Yousaf said he never meant “to cause undue alarm amongst parents” when he used the figure on Wednesday to warn against travelling to councils where soft play areas are open.

    As well as stating incorrectly that there were 10 young children children admitted to hospital last week “because of Covid”, he warned that travelling from a level 2 area to a soft play facility in a level 1 area “could lead to hospitalisation of children”.


    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19349031.humza-yousaf-issues-regret-child-covid-hospitalisations-mistake/?ref=twtrec

    Thank God he didn’t end up at education, especially in light of today’s news. Can you imagine the damage he would have done?
    He could at least actually apologise that he misled people and manipulated the statistics, rather than the classic non apology provided here. One can only hope that people will start to see the reality behind the SNP.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    ping said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    We dont yet know for sure that is because of the vaccines, though, do we? It could be increased transmission in the younger groups not (yet) feeding through to older groups for some other reason.

    I agree it looks promising, but I’m still holding onto me underpants….
    Occasionally razor says it’s the vaccine.
    The other evidence is that for admissions and cases, the age correlations have reversed. We have watched this happen, and it followed the spread of the vaccines down the age groups.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    Another way of looking at the data. Being admitted to hospital with COVID is really going out of style among the elderly.

    image
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    Which is why I'm not seeing much of a threat to the roadmap. I'll be surprised if serious domestic legal restrictions persist beyond 21st June.
    I'm glad you're keeping the faith. Because faced with a weak willed government advised by a monomaniacal sage, harangued by the insane gang of nihilists at isage, cheered on by the BBC and Sky and the opposition, when the deign to venture an opinion, it's very difficult to believe June 22nd will look any freer than June 20th.
    Well we'll soon find out. I can imagine one or two measures sticking around for a while longer - just to be on the safe side - but if they decide on a serious deferral of the 'unlock', I really will be very surprised indeed.
    That is exactly my position
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,748
    ydoethur said:

    darkage said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looking at the case rates today one can only say praise be we have so many vaccinated.
    Otherwise, this looks like the start of what would have been a brutal third wave.
    Just got to avoid it myself now.

    Yep.

    Squeaky bum time for the vaccines. We’re about to find out how effective they really are.
    We already have - 2 jabs and you are very, very unlikely to end up in hospital. The rise in cases is all in the younger, unvaccinated groups.
    Which is why I'm not seeing much of a threat to the roadmap. I'll be surprised if serious domestic legal restrictions persist beyond 21st June.
    The other issue is, will people obey them? We all obeyed lockdowns because - a few nutters apart - we all saw it was needed and was about the only thing to do if hundreds of thousands more weren’t to die.

    But if somebody tells me I have to wear a mask because some drug addled fool on Indie Sage thinks there might potentially be a problem if I don’t?

    I think it’s optimistic to assume that will be followed.
    I've seen a lot of mask refuseniks over the past week. Loads of people on the tube and trains just not obeying the rules. The £6400 fine makes me smile. How is that a proportionate response to the issue? It just goes to show that the government got drunk on power, as they inevitably would in the situation they found themselves in. The rules must be lifted, or else it will never end as there will always be a reason to protect the NHS.
    You can’t fine someone for not wearing a mask. Anyone can declare themselves exempt and cannot, by law, be ordered to show proof of exemption.
    Is that actually the case? I knew that I could diagnose myself with a self identified disability that would make me exempt (ie mask aversion due to anxiety), I just wonder how it would work out in practice if I was challenged on the train. The main point is still valid though, how is a £6400 fine proportionate if I just forgot my mask or it broke at some point on my trip.
This discussion has been closed.