I thought they said Boris wasn't getting married until next year? Wasn't that the Sun scoop last week?
They've clearly had to do it in a mad panic. Wonder what the story is there.
Much more likely they wanted some privacy and not to risk having protestors or other garbage outside on their special day.
Fair enough too. The increasing trend started (AFAIK) by dickhead American religious cultists of picketting weddings etc is despicable.
Thought you had to post the banns for 20 days beforehand. Did that happen? If not, why not? If so, how come it wasn't reported? Is this marriage actually legal? Or is it a sham? If it is a sham, why are they doing it? Who are they trying to fool and why? There really are a lot of questions here. But let's see how it plays out rather than speculate. There could well be a perfectly innocent explanation for everything.
Is this how the Obama Truthers operated? That is not, for the avoidance of doubt, a compliment.
It's how innuendo and smear merchants in general operate, I'd say. Once you get going you can create a blizzard of nonsense.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
Yes, but that's why there was the point made that the second reference was unclear - and more to the point while I, like most people I suspect, would generally take a reference to catholic to mean roman catholic, sticking to that point even when the discussion veers into the more general use of the word, is unsustainable.
Here's another perspective - from today's Survation:
Of the following people, do you believe that they do or do not generally tell the truth? (Net) Johnson: -18 Cummings: -51 Sunak: +18 Gove: -22 Hancock: -24
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
Generally speaking in Church of England churches idolotarybis out. M No Saints to.pray for wherever you look.
Depends where you go. On one hand, there are spookily poignant places like Ely Cathedral, where all the statues in the Lady Chapel were beheaded at the Reformation. But there are also C of E places where you can't move for icons, statues and whatnot.
Highnam Church in Gloucestershire makes the average Italian Catholic cathedral look positively dingy.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
Q: Is the C of E Protestant or Catholic? A: Yes.
Yes it is or yes it isn’t?
Just yes.
I'm a physics teacher: I'm used to things that are two contradictory things at the same time (both from the physics and the teaching tbf).
The catholicity of the Henrician settlement must be a doddle for anyone used to wave-particle duality.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.
But HYUFD knows better. 😂
Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and I would imagine had a long confession with the priest beforehand
Absolutely no need for him to convert. Wilfred being brought up a Catholic is sufficient.
Maybe just as well, as a Roman Catholic he would be legally prohibited from advising the Crown on appointments within the Church of England and Church of Scotland and could be removed from office if he did under s18 Roman Catholic Relief Act 1829.
Keen as I am for BoJo to begin his post-Premiership career as soon as possible (within the next thirty seconds would be just fine), removing him under s18 Roman Catholic Relief Act 1829 might be pushing it a bit far.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.
But HYUFD knows better. 😂
Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Classic HYUFD.
Person he's arguing with(everyone): "CoE is a Catholic Church, but not Roman Catholic" HYUFD: "No it is not Catholic it is Protestant" Phaw(e): "It is Catholic and Protestant. And here's what the CoE has to say about the whole thing, which agrees with me" HYUFD: "It is Catholic but not Roman Catholic. I win, i think?"
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.
But HYUFD knows better. 😂
Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
So our poll had a 12-point Tory lead, Survation had 10, YouGov had 14, Opinium have 6. Without debating who is right or wrong, I wonder which of these polls will get the most attention
Here's another perspective - from today's Survation:
Of the following people, do you believe that they do or do not generally tell the truth? (Net) Johnson: -18 Cummings: -51 Sunak: +18 Gove: -22 Hancock: -24
I think there's one clear outlier there....
Who the actual fuck are these people who think Cummings doesn’t generally tell lies?
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
Generally speaking in Church of England churches idolotarybis out. M No Saints to.pray for wherever you look.
Depends where you go. On one hand, there are spookily poignant places like Ely Cathedral, where all the statues in the Lady Chapel were beheaded at the Reformation. But there are also C of E places where you can't move for icons, statues and whatnot.
Highnam Church in Gloucestershire makes the average Italian Catholic cathedral look positively dingy.
Here's another perspective - from today's Survation:
Of the following people, do you believe that they do or do not generally tell the truth? (Net) Johnson: -18 Cummings: -51 Sunak: +18 Gove: -22 Hancock: -24
I thought they said Boris wasn't getting married until next year? Wasn't that the Sun scoop last week?
They've clearly had to do it in a mad panic. Wonder what the story is there.
Much more likely they wanted some privacy and not to risk having protestors or other garbage outside on their special day.
Fair enough too. The increasing trend started (AFAIK) by dickhead American religious cultists of picketting weddings etc is despicable.
Thought you had to post the banns for 20 days beforehand. Did that happen? If not, why not? If so, how come it wasn't reported? Is this marriage actually legal? Or is it a sham? If it is a sham, why are they doing it? Who are they trying to fool and why? There really are a lot of questions here. But let's see how it plays out rather than speculate. There could well be a perfectly innocent explanation for everything.
You're the only one speculating.
Its rather nasty really.
Joking, Philip. Seems to be a certain twitchiness these days. I suppose it's the wait for June 21.
Here's another perspective - from today's Survation:
Of the following people, do you believe that they do or do not generally tell the truth? (Net) Johnson: -18 Cummings: -51 Sunak: +18 Gove: -22 Hancock: -24
I think there's one clear outlier there....
Well done, those polled, for trolling Cummings.....
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
Generally speaking in Church of England churches idolotarybis out. M No Saints to.pray for wherever you look.
Depends where you go. On one hand, there are spookily poignant places like Ely Cathedral, where all the statues in the Lady Chapel were beheaded at the Reformation. But there are also C of E places where you can't move for icons, statues and whatnot.
Highnam Church in Gloucestershire makes the average Italian Catholic cathedral look positively dingy.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
But it's still like saying "The Protestant Church does not recognise marriages ..."
No, its like saying the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in its own churches. Are we at peak PB pedantry?
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
Yes, but that's why there was the point made that the second reference was unclear - and more to the point while I, like most people I suspect, would generally take a reference to catholic to mean roman catholic, sticking to that point even when the discussion veers into the more general use of the word, is unsustainable.
Quite. I'd normally have taken Catholic as default RC but I did know that thje C of E also claims to be a Catholic church, so out of simple courtesy ...
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Isn't HM the head of the Anglican Church?
The monarch is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England, a ceremonial title mainly, it is the Archbishop of Canterbury who actually runs it as the Pope runs the Roman Catholic Church
That's like saying that the Prime Minister is head of the United Kingdom, since the monarch is Queen, a ceremonial title mainly, it is the Prime Minister who actually runs it.
The BBC has the marriage story but only in tentative form, reporting that it has been reported in the papers, adding that Downing Street is neither confirming nor denying the story (aka playing silly buggers as I speculated on the last thread). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57296472
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
Yes, but that's why there was the point made that the second reference was unclear - and more to the point while I, like most people I suspect, would generally take a reference to catholic to mean roman catholic, sticking to that point even when the discussion veers into the more general use of the word, is unsustainable.
I thought that the capitilisation was sufficient to distinguish between the specific and the general.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
Generally speaking in Church of England churches idolotarybis out. M No Saints to.pray for wherever you look.
Depends where you go. On one hand, there are spookily poignant places like Ely Cathedral, where all the statues in the Lady Chapel were beheaded at the Reformation. But there are also C of E places where you can't move for icons, statues and whatnot.
Yes I guess that's true as you can go from bells and smells(incense and bells) to common worship. My church is straight up and down Book of Common Prayer.
The creed states that.... I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church...but It doesn't mean papal autonomy in the Church of England..
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Ouch.
The last wedding I attended before lockdown was a secular affair at the Temple of Peace in Cardiff. The programme contained the following rather wonderful line:
‘The best man respectfully requests that you do your best to drink his speech funny.’
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before . Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
In which case, is he our first Catholic PM?
3rd time lucky I suppose. The triumph of hope over experience.
Blair.
Blair only converted after he stepped down from being PM didn't he?
Which is very interesting, in that it implies he saw some issues with that action if done while he was PM (though the timing might be for other reasons, tbf). I'm not quite sure what they actually were.
At the time it was assumed because of Northern Ireland. He used his Protestant Donegal grandmother to boost his credentials with Unionists.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
Yes, but that's why there was the point made that the second reference was unclear - and more to the point while I, like most people I suspect, would generally take a reference to catholic to mean roman catholic, sticking to that point even when the discussion veers into the more general use of the word, is unsustainable.
I thought that the capitilisation was sufficient to distinguish between the specific and the general.
Too many people don't pay enough attentions to proper capitalisations.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
Yes, but that's why there was the point made that the second reference was unclear - and more to the point while I, like most people I suspect, would generally take a reference to catholic to mean roman catholic, sticking to that point even when the discussion veers into the more general use of the word, is unsustainable.
I thought that the capitilisation was sufficient to distinguish between the specific and the general.
Too many people don't pay enough attentions to proper capitalisations.
Some journal/publisher house styles delete capitals even in proper names and derived adjectives - so one can never rely on capitalisation, alas.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
Generally speaking in Church of England churches idolotarybis out. M No Saints to.pray for wherever you look.
Depends where you go. On one hand, there are spookily poignant places like Ely Cathedral, where all the statues in the Lady Chapel were beheaded at the Reformation. But there are also C of E places where you can't move for icons, statues and whatnot.
Highnam Church in Gloucestershire makes the average Italian Catholic cathedral look positively dingy.
Ewelme Church in Oxfordshire is also remarkably untouched: local legend has it that the local MP during the civil war stepped in to protect it from vandalism by the roundheads. It includes the remarkable tomb of Alice Chaucer, Duchess of Suffolk (and Geoffrey's granddaughter) which includes a carving of a cadaver underneath the sarcophagus.
So our poll had a 12-point Tory lead, Survation had 10, YouGov had 14, Opinium have 6. Without debating who is right or wrong, I wonder which of these polls will get the most attention
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.
But HYUFD knows better. 😂
Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
It does if like most Roman Catholics you believe that the Pope is literally God's representative on earth and a direct successor of St Peter
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.
But HYUFD knows better. 😂
Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
It does if like most Roman Catholics you believe that the Pope is literally God's representative on earth and a direct successor of St Peter
But most of us here on PB on statistical grounds are not going to be subordinate (whether in spiritual or temporal senses) to the Vatican City. It's the C of E we are discussing, surely. And Henry VIII decided that the Pope had nothing to do with it.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
But it's still like saying "The Protestant Church does not recognise marriages ..."
No, its like saying the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in its own churches. Are we at peak PB pedantry?
It was a pedantic point. But once made, it's just polite to acknowledge it.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
Hmm.. so the words Christ is reported as speaking in the Gospels apply only to marriages conducted in (Roman) Catholic churches? At that time, that would have been none of them then as the institution didn't exist for at least decades (some might argue centuries). Somewhat tenuous as Christ himself didn't make any qualification - perhaps you could argue that in the context of a Jewish audience he implied a marriage sworn before God but surely it's a step too far for the Catholic Church to argue that he was merely setting out the rules for an organisation that hadn't yet been created and it didn't apply to those listening to his words at the time.
(Edited to correct for a partial mis-edit before posting)
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
Yes, but that's why there was the point made that the second reference was unclear - and more to the point while I, like most people I suspect, would generally take a reference to catholic to mean roman catholic, sticking to that point even when the discussion veers into the more general use of the word, is unsustainable.
Quite. I'd normally have taken Catholic as default RC but I did know that thje C of E also claims to be a Catholic church, so out of simple courtesy ...
My grandmother (who was very much C of E) used to tell Jehovah's Witnesses that she was catholic to get them to give up on her as a lost cause. She did not regard it as a lie.
......I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
I remember the first time I had to say this in Sunday school. I thought maybe I'd come to the wrong place as my parents were pointedly anti-Catholic. I subsequently resolved the confusion by pocketing my collection money and going train-spotting instead.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
Hmm.. so the words Christ is reported as speaking in the Gospels apply only to marriages conducted in (Roman) Catholic churches? At that time, that would have been all of them then as the institution didn't exist for at least decades (some might argue centuries). Somewhat tenuous as Christ himself didn't make any qualification - perhaps you could argue that in the context of a Jewish audience he implied a marriage sworn before God but surely it's a step too far for the Catholic Church to argue that he was merely setting out the rules for an organisation that hadn't yet been created and it didn't apply to those listening to his words at the time.
Yes, but unlike Protestant churches, the Roman Catholics are not bound by Scripture, Church Tradition over-rides it.
My own Church takes the position that as Bishops are not mentioned in the Bible, they shouldn't exist in the Church, but that is Protestantism for you.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.
But HYUFD knows better. 😂
Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
It does if like most Roman Catholics you believe that the Pope is literally God's representative on earth and a direct successor of St Peter
What the heck does that have to do with whether the Vatican has a monopoly on definition of the word catholic? The President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is considered God's spokesman on Earth with exclusive right to receive revelations from God on behalf of the entire world, apparently, does that give mormons the right to insist that they have exclusive right to specific terminology?
How much one demonination believes something doesn't have any bearing on that other denominations might believe differently. I cannot believe you would believe that.
And given the shit a lot of Pope's got up to, and how they were often ignored, sometimes warred upon or even killed by people who in some cases considered themselves committed roman catholics, in a much more religious age than this one, blanket statements about roman catholics believing the Pope as literally God's representative need to be taken with a pinch of salt, even when it is officially the line.
Matters of faith are not so cast iron, even when they claim they are.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.
But HYUFD knows better. 😂
Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
It does if like most Roman Catholics you believe that the Pope is literally God's representative on earth and a direct successor of St Peter
But most of us here on PB on statistical grounds are not going to be subordinate (whether in spiritual or temporal senses) to the Vatican City. It's the C of E we are discussing, surely. And Henry VIII decided that the Pope had nothing to do with it.
Which in the eyes of Roman Catholics meant that by defying Papal authority Henry VIII was also defying the authority of God as exercised on earth by the Pope
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.
But HYUFD knows better. 😂
Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
It does if like most Roman Catholics you believe that the Pope is literally God's representative on earth and a direct successor of St Peter
But most of us here on PB on statistical grounds are not going to be subordinate (whether in spiritual or temporal senses) to the Vatican City. It's the C of E we are discussing, surely. And Henry VIII decided that the Pope had nothing to do with it.
Which in the eyes of Roman Catholics meant that by defying Papal authority Henry VIII was also defying the authority of God as exercised on earth by the Pope
Better tell that to those roman catholics who had popes killed or installed puppet popes repeatedly and ask how much they thought the pope had the right to tell them what to do, even when it came to appointing churchmen in their territories.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.
But HYUFD knows better. 😂
Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
It does if like most Roman Catholics you believe that the Pope is literally God's representative on earth and a direct successor of St Peter
But most of us here on PB on statistical grounds are not going to be subordinate (whether in spiritual or temporal senses) to the Vatican City. It's the C of E we are discussing, surely. And Henry VIII decided that the Pope had nothing to do with it.
Which in the eyes of Roman Catholics meant that by defying Papal authority Henry VIII was also defying the authority of God as exercised on earth by the Pope
And in the eyes of Pastafarians means that you need to be touched by His noodly appendage.
What other religions/denominations think doesn't matter.
Douglas Chapman, the MP for Dunfermline and West Fife, announced he had resigned as national treasurer of the party on Saturday evening. Mr Chapman took over in the role last year.
On Twitter, he said: "Despite having a resounding mandate from members to introduce more transparency into the party's finances, I have not received the support or financial information to carry out the fiduciary duties of National Treasurer.
Given the £600k is missing and police investigating , anybody still on the NEC and liable for the accounts/cash must be brain dead or exceedingly stupid.
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Well the BM is meant to be a bit edgy.
It was a great wedding. The only one that I have been to with a fight, with someone being thrown out, and pretty much everyone drunk. I woke up with a very sore head, and have never found my own wedding ring since. Fortunately Mrs Foxy was in an equally bad state.
The second most edgy Best Man's speech was at my Brothers wedding near Kiel in North Germany.
Best Man: Welcome to this wedding in Schwelsig-Holstein, a most beautiful part of Germany, formerly Denmark...
I suspect there are two "outlier" polls here and the 10-12 point gap looks the most plausible,
It may well be Opinium has slightly overstated the Labour number just as YouGov overstated the Conservative number last month.
I presume the point of the comment was a jibe that good polls for Labour always get more coverage than good polls for the Conservatives.
No flies on you.
This is the thing I don't get.
Conservative supporters should be happy, confident and relaxed - your Party has an 82-seat majority, you lead all the polls comfortably, the local election results were very good and your principal opponent is struggling to even land a blow.
And yet...
Every anti-Government or anti-Johnson post had to be rebuffed and rebutted, every opportunity to show the Government in a positive light advanced. Labour and other parties criticised at every turn.
There's also this sense of injustice that somehow "the media" or "the metropolitan liberal elite" or "the woke" or whatever the flavour of the month is are somehow out to get the Conservative Party and even though the Party is clearly popular and going well, that isn't somehow being recognised (even though every poll suggests it is).
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
Yes, but that's why there was the point made that the second reference was unclear - and more to the point while I, like most people I suspect, would generally take a reference to catholic to mean roman catholic, sticking to that point even when the discussion veers into the more general use of the word, is unsustainable.
Quite. I'd normally have taken Catholic as default RC but I did know that thje C of E also claims to be a Catholic church, so out of simple courtesy ...
My grandmother (who was very much C of E) used to tell Jehovah's Witnesses that she was catholic to get them to give up on her as a lost cause. She did not regard it as a lie.
My grandmother was clear she was an Anglo-Catholic
I suspect there are two "outlier" polls here and the 10-12 point gap looks the most plausible,
It may well be Opinium has slightly overstated the Labour number just as YouGov overstated the Conservative number last month.
I presume the point of the comment was a jibe that good polls for Labour always get more coverage than good polls for the Conservatives.
No flies on you.
This is the thing I don't get.
Conservative supporters should be happy, confident and relaxed - your Party has an 82-seat majority, you lead all the polls comfortably, the local election results were very good and your principal opponent is struggling to even land a blow.
And yet...
Every anti-Government or anti-Johnson post had to be rebuffed and rebutted, every opportunity to show the Government in a positive light advanced. Labour and other parties criticised at every turn.
There's also this sense of injustice that somehow "the media" or "the metropolitan liberal elite" or "the woke" or whatever the flavour of the month is are somehow out to get the Conservative Party and even though the Party is clearly popular and going well, that isn't somehow being recognised (even though every poll suggests it is).
Of course the rebuttals will continue, regardless of who is in power.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
Yes, but that's why there was the point made that the second reference was unclear - and more to the point while I, like most people I suspect, would generally take a reference to catholic to mean roman catholic, sticking to that point even when the discussion veers into the more general use of the word, is unsustainable.
Quite. I'd normally have taken Catholic as default RC but I did know that thje C of E also claims to be a Catholic church, so out of simple courtesy ...
My grandmother (who was very much C of E) used to tell Jehovah's Witnesses that she was catholic to get them to give up on her as a lost cause. She did not regard it as a lie.
My grandmother was clear she was an Anglo-Catholic
Here's another perspective - from today's Survation:
Of the following people, do you believe that they do or do not generally tell the truth? (Net) Johnson: -18 Cummings: -51 Sunak: +18 Gove: -22 Hancock: -24
I think there's one clear outlier there....
Yet the main things that Cummings was saying are believed.
So our poll had a 12-point Tory lead, Survation had 10, YouGov had 14, Opinium have 6. Without debating who is right or wrong, I wonder which of these polls will get the most attentionThinking face
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.
But HYUFD knows better. 😂
Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
It does if like most Roman Catholics you believe that the Pope is literally God's representative on earth and a direct successor of St Peter
But most of us here on PB on statistical grounds are not going to be subordinate (whether in spiritual or temporal senses) to the Vatican City. It's the C of E we are discussing, surely. And Henry VIII decided that the Pope had nothing to do with it.
Which in the eyes of Roman Catholics meant that by defying Papal authority Henry VIII was also defying the authority of God as exercised on earth by the Pope
Better tell that to those roman catholics who had popes killed or installed puppet popes repeatedly and ask how much they thought the pope had the right to tell them what to do, even when it came to appointing churchmen in their territories.
A puppet Pope still was God's representative, just the Holy Roman Emperor for example ensured politically he was also in his camp. If he did not recognise his authority he would have had no need for a puppet
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Well the BM is meant to be a bit edgy.
It was a great wedding. The only one that I have been to with a fight, with someone being thrown out, and pretty much everyone drunk. I woke up with a very sore head, and have never found my own wedding ring since. Fortunately Mrs Foxy was in an equally bad state.
The second most edgy Best Man's speech was at my Brothers wedding near Kiel in North Germany.
Best Man: Welcome to this wedding in Schwelsig-Holstein, a most beautiful part of Germany, formerly Denmark...
I wonder if any best man has started his speech: Welcome to N's first wedding...
I do know someone who winds up his spouse by introducing her as his first wife.
Surely with pedantic points like this one it is pretty plain that words can have both a natural and ordinary meaning (or at least common understanding of their meaning) and a technical or specific one, indeed, might have many such alternative more specific meanings depending on context and usage. It's fine to note the general understanding of a word, but that doesn't erase that other, valid, usages and meanings exist.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.
But HYUFD knows better. 😂
Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
It does if like most Roman Catholics you believe that the Pope is literally God's representative on earth and a direct successor of St Peter
But most of us here on PB on statistical grounds are not going to be subordinate (whether in spiritual or temporal senses) to the Vatican City. It's the C of E we are discussing, surely. And Henry VIII decided that the Pope had nothing to do with it.
Which in the eyes of Roman Catholics meant that by defying Papal authority Henry VIII was also defying the authority of God as exercised on earth by the Pope
Better tell that to those roman catholics who had popes killed or installed puppet popes repeatedly and ask how much they thought the pope had the right to tell them what to do, even when it came to appointing churchmen in their territories.
A puppet Pope still was God's representative, just the Holy Roman Emperor for example ensured politically he was also in his camp. If he did not recognise his authority he would have had no need for a puppet
In your second sentence there are too many "he"s: which one is which?
Edit: after all you have the Pope, the Holy Roman Emperor and God: I doubt if you would refer to any of those as "she".
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Well the BM is meant to be a bit edgy.
It was a great wedding. The only one that I have been to with a fight, with someone being thrown out, and pretty much everyone drunk. I woke up with a very sore head, and have never found my own wedding ring since. Fortunately Mrs Foxy was in an equally bad state.
She'd mislaid her's as well, and you decided the best thing was to call it a wash?
......I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
I remember the first time I had to say this in Sunday school. I thought maybe I'd come to the wrong place as my parents were pointedly anti-Catholic. I subsequently resolved the confusion by pocketing my collection money and going train-spotting instead.
I suspect there are two "outlier" polls here and the 10-12 point gap looks the most plausible,
It may well be Opinium has slightly overstated the Labour number just as YouGov overstated the Conservative number last month.
I presume the point of the comment was a jibe that good polls for Labour always get more coverage than good polls for the Conservatives.
No flies on you.
This is the thing I don't get.
Conservative supporters should be happy, confident and relaxed - your Party has an 82-seat majority, you lead all the polls comfortably, the local election results were very good and your principal opponent is struggling to even land a blow.
And yet...
Every anti-Government or anti-Johnson post had to be rebuffed and rebutted, every opportunity to show the Government in a positive light advanced. Labour and other parties criticised at every turn.
There's also this sense of injustice that somehow "the media" or "the metropolitan liberal elite" or "the woke" or whatever the flavour of the month is are somehow out to get the Conservative Party and even though the Party is clearly popular and going well, that isn't somehow being recognised (even though every poll suggests it is).
The internet.
Its created a means for obsessives of any subject to argue about which didn't exist previously.
I suspect there are two "outlier" polls here and the 10-12 point gap looks the most plausible,
It may well be Opinium has slightly overstated the Labour number just as YouGov overstated the Conservative number last month.
I presume the point of the comment was a jibe that good polls for Labour always get more coverage than good polls for the Conservatives.
No flies on you.
This is the thing I don't get.
Conservative supporters should be happy, confident and relaxed - your Party has an 82-seat majority, you lead all the polls comfortably, the local election results were very good and your principal opponent is struggling to even land a blow.
And yet...
Every anti-Government or anti-Johnson post had to be rebuffed and rebutted, every opportunity to show the Government in a positive light advanced. Labour and other parties criticised at every turn.
There's also this sense of injustice that somehow "the media" or "the metropolitan liberal elite" or "the woke" or whatever the flavour of the month is are somehow out to get the Conservative Party and even though the Party is clearly popular and going well, that isn't somehow being recognised (even though every poll suggests it is).
Take nothing for granted.
That's been PB Tory line for years. Especially post-2017.
I suspect there are two "outlier" polls here and the 10-12 point gap looks the most plausible,
It may well be Opinium has slightly overstated the Labour number just as YouGov overstated the Conservative number last month.
I presume the point of the comment was a jibe that good polls for Labour always get more coverage than good polls for the Conservatives.
No flies on you.
This is the thing I don't get.
Conservative supporters should be happy, confident and relaxed - your Party has an 82-seat majority, you lead all the polls comfortably, the local election results were very good and your principal opponent is struggling to even land a blow.
And yet...
Every anti-Government or anti-Johnson post had to be rebuffed and rebutted, every opportunity to show the Government in a positive light advanced. Labour and other parties criticised at every turn.
There's also this sense of injustice that somehow "the media" or "the metropolitan liberal elite" or "the woke" or whatever the flavour of the month is are somehow out to get the Conservative Party and even though the Party is clearly popular and going well, that isn't somehow being recognised (even though every poll suggests it is).
The internet.
Its created a means for obsessives of any subject to argue about which didn't exist previously.
Quite. We are currently arguing about the meaning of the word "catholic": outside of NI I don't think that is party political any more.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.
But HYUFD knows better. 😂
Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
It does if like most Roman Catholics you believe that the Pope is literally God's representative on earth and a direct successor of St Peter
But most of us here on PB on statistical grounds are not going to be subordinate (whether in spiritual or temporal senses) to the Vatican City. It's the C of E we are discussing, surely. And Henry VIII decided that the Pope had nothing to do with it.
Which in the eyes of Roman Catholics meant that by defying Papal authority Henry VIII was also defying the authority of God as exercised on earth by the Pope
Better tell that to those roman catholics who had popes killed or installed puppet popes repeatedly and ask how much they thought the pope had the right to tell them what to do, even when it came to appointing churchmen in their territories.
A puppet Pope still was God's representative, just the Holy Roman Emperor for example ensured politically he was also in his camp. If he did not recognise his authority he would have had no need for a puppet
You don't think that whatever people might say, or claim to think, that what they do is a better indicator of what they actually think? The view of the authority of and esteem owed to the papacy has ebbed and flowed a lot, and flowery talk about recognising authority doesn't mean much unless it is practically demonstrated. Some popes had better luck with that than others. Recognising the usefulness of a puppet is not the same thing as genuinely believing the puppet to have genuine authority.
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Well the BM is meant to be a bit edgy.
It was a great wedding. The only one that I have been to with a fight, with someone being thrown out, and pretty much everyone drunk. I woke up with a very sore head, and have never found my own wedding ring since. Fortunately Mrs Foxy was in an equally bad state.
The second most edgy Best Man's speech was at my Brothers wedding near Kiel in North Germany.
Best Man: Welcome to this wedding in Schwelsig-Holstein, a most beautiful part of Germany, formerly Denmark...
- I like wedding speeches. They almost always work in my experience because the audience is generous and complicit.
Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.
It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔
I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.
The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦♂️
Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to
Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral
Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
Hmm.. so the words Christ is reported as speaking in the Gospels apply only to marriages conducted in (Roman) Catholic churches? At that time, that would have been all of them then as the institution didn't exist for at least decades (some might argue centuries). Somewhat tenuous as Christ himself didn't make any qualification - perhaps you could argue that in the context of a Jewish audience he implied a marriage sworn before God but surely it's a step too far for the Catholic Church to argue that he was merely setting out the rules for an organisation that hadn't yet been created and it didn't apply to those listening to his words at the time.
Yes, but unlike Protestant churches, the Roman Catholics are not bound by Scripture, Church Tradition over-rides it.
My own Church takes the position that as Bishops are not mentioned in the Bible, they shouldn't exist in the Church, but that is Protestantism for you.
Indeed. But Christianity isn't mentioned in the Gospels either.
I suspect there are two "outlier" polls here and the 10-12 point gap looks the most plausible,
It may well be Opinium has slightly overstated the Labour number just as YouGov overstated the Conservative number last month.
I presume the point of the comment was a jibe that good polls for Labour always get more coverage than good polls for the Conservatives.
No flies on you.
This is the thing I don't get.
Conservative supporters should be happy, confident and relaxed - your Party has an 82-seat majority, you lead all the polls comfortably, the local election results were very good and your principal opponent is struggling to even land a blow.
And yet...
Every anti-Government or anti-Johnson post had to be rebuffed and rebutted, every opportunity to show the Government in a positive light advanced. Labour and other parties criticised at every turn.
There's also this sense of injustice that somehow "the media" or "the metropolitan liberal elite" or "the woke" or whatever the flavour of the month is are somehow out to get the Conservative Party and even though the Party is clearly popular and going well, that isn't somehow being recognised (even though every poll suggests it is).
The internet.
Its created a means for obsessives of any subject to argue about which didn't exist previously.
I think that history will show that the Internet, combined with the pandemic, has had consequences that will last long into the future. It may well become to be seen as the key factor in the potential fall of America as a democratic state.
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Well the BM is meant to be a bit edgy.
It was a great wedding. The only one that I have been to with a fight, with someone being thrown out, and pretty much everyone drunk. I woke up with a very sore head, and have never found my own wedding ring since. Fortunately Mrs Foxy was in an equally bad state.
The second most edgy Best Man's speech was at my Brothers wedding near Kiel in North Germany.
Best Man: Welcome to this wedding in Schwelsig-Holstein, a most beautiful part of Germany, formerly Denmark...
- I like wedding speeches. They almost always work in my experience because the audience is generous and complicit.
"Generous and complicit". That is a euphemism for drunk I hadn't heard before.
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Well the BM is meant to be a bit edgy.
It was a great wedding. The only one that I have been to with a fight, with someone being thrown out, and pretty much everyone drunk. I woke up with a very sore head, and have never found my own wedding ring since. Fortunately Mrs Foxy was in an equally bad state.
She'd mislaid her's as well, and you decided the best thing was to call it a wash?
No, but at least she was there to know that I had not mislaid mine in an extramarital bit of dodginess.
I think I lost it when the Groom, Best man, myself and another were doing our imitation of the Chippendales on the dance floor.
A threat perhaps for him to fall on his sword. Not something you'd want to do lightly, even though he clearly deserves to be kicked out.
Erskine May (sad it is online now, my hardcopy used to be so cool) The expulsion by the House of Commons of one of its Members may be regarded as an example of the House's power to regulate its own constitution, though it is, for convenience, treated here as one of the methods of punishment at the disposal of the House. Members have been expelled for a wide variety of causes.1 In some cases, such as the last case in which expulsion was imposed, it was in consequence of a Member being sentenced to a term of imprisonment.2 In the previous case (and the only other since 1945), the case arose from a finding of contempt by the Committee of Privileges and the motion that the Member be suspended for six months was amended to substitute the penalty of expulsion.3 The Minister moving the original motion to suspend the Member concerned warned ‘Expulsion is a very serious step. It could be a step open to very great abuse.’
4 Much more recently, similar concerns were expressed by the Committee on Standards, which noted in 2014: ‘There is a danger that the power of expulsion could be used to remove people because their opinions were unpopular, rather than because of misconduct. Members are elected, and the decision of the electorate should be respected.’5In recent years, Members have resigned before debates on their conduct in cases where the Committee on Standards and Privileges6 or the Committee on Standards7 had recommended suspensions for terms of six months.
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Well the BM is meant to be a bit edgy.
It was a great wedding. The only one that I have been to with a fight, with someone being thrown out, and pretty much everyone drunk. I woke up with a very sore head, and have never found my own wedding ring since. Fortunately Mrs Foxy was in an equally bad state.
The second most edgy Best Man's speech was at my Brothers wedding near Kiel in North Germany.
Best Man: Welcome to this wedding in Schwelsig-Holstein, a most beautiful part of Germany, formerly Denmark...
- I like wedding speeches. They almost always work in my experience because the audience is generous and complicit.
"Generous and complicit". That is a euphemism for drunk I hadn't heard before.
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Well the BM is meant to be a bit edgy.
It was a great wedding. The only one that I have been to with a fight, with someone being thrown out, and pretty much everyone drunk. I woke up with a very sore head, and have never found my own wedding ring since. Fortunately Mrs Foxy was in an equally bad state.
She'd mislaid her's as well, and you decided the best thing was to call it a wash?
No, but at least she was there to know that I had not mislaid mine in an extramarital bit of dodginess.
I think I lost it when the Groom, Best man, myself and another were doing our imitation of the Chippendales on the dance floor.
"Brave" of the Tories to be so keen on triggering a by-election that Labour really ought to be favourites for.
They have a secure enough majority and polling position to do the right thing for once and cut him loose. Arcane procedures need to be carefully used though.
"Brave" of the Tories to be so keen on triggering a by-election that Labour really ought to be favourites for.
They have a secure enough majority and polling position to do the right thing for once and cut him loose. Arcane procedures need to be carefully used though.
The fact that it is an "arcane procedure" is probably the reason that JRM is so keen to use it...
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Well the BM is meant to be a bit edgy.
It was a great wedding. The only one that I have been to with a fight, with someone being thrown out, and pretty much everyone drunk. I woke up with a very sore head, and have never found my own wedding ring since. Fortunately Mrs Foxy was in an equally bad state.
She'd mislaid her's as well, and you decided the best thing was to call it a wash?
No, but at least she was there to know that I had not mislaid mine in an extramarital bit of dodginess.
I think I lost it when the Groom, Best man, myself and another were doing our imitation of the Chippendales on the dance floor.
Weddings are fun, good to have them back.
Knocking up a nice chair you mean?
More that "clothes are so restricting"
Words that make Mrs Foxy pale when I mention them at a function.
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Well the BM is meant to be a bit edgy.
It was a great wedding. The only one that I have been to with a fight, with someone being thrown out, and pretty much everyone drunk. I woke up with a very sore head, and have never found my own wedding ring since. Fortunately Mrs Foxy was in an equally bad state.
The second most edgy Best Man's speech was at my Brothers wedding near Kiel in North Germany.
Best Man: Welcome to this wedding in Schwelsig-Holstein, a most beautiful part of Germany, formerly Denmark...
- I like wedding speeches. They almost always work in my experience because the audience is generous and complicit.
"Generous and complicit". That is a euphemism for drunk I hadn't heard before.
Lol. I didn't mean it like that, but now you mention it ... yes the booze levels tend to be just right for the speeches. People are loose but not tight.
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Well the BM is meant to be a bit edgy.
It was a great wedding. The only one that I have been to with a fight, with someone being thrown out, and pretty much everyone drunk. I woke up with a very sore head, and have never found my own wedding ring since. Fortunately Mrs Foxy was in an equally bad state.
The second most edgy Best Man's speech was at my Brothers wedding near Kiel in North Germany.
Best Man: Welcome to this wedding in Schwelsig-Holstein, a most beautiful part of Germany, formerly Denmark...
- I like wedding speeches. They almost always work in my experience because the audience is generous and complicit.
Yes it's not what you'd call a hostile crowd. Though I think on youtube there are some cringeworthy examples of disastrous wedding speeches.
I can't stand weddings myself and always skip them if possible.
"Brave" of the Tories to be so keen on triggering a by-election that Labour really ought to be favourites for.
They have a secure enough majority and polling position to do the right thing for once and cut him loose. Arcane procedures need to be carefully used though.
Yup. Not sure I'd be entirely comfortable with this procedure. Open to too much abuse. Clearly intended for very sparing use in exceptional circumstances. Not sure this is one. Withdraw the whip permanently.
Here's another perspective - from today's Survation:
Of the following people, do you believe that they do or do not generally tell the truth? (Net) Johnson: -18 Cummings: -51 Sunak: +18 Gove: -22 Hancock: -24
I think there's one clear outlier there....
Yet the main things that Cummings was saying are believed.
But they only go into more detail about things people had already knew or had guessed. There was no killer revelation there as far as I could see. Cummings was like a battleship turning all his guns on HMS Boris, and Boris has sailed on basically unaffected, for the moment anyway.
I have only been to one Catholic wedding, a friend of mine from medical school, who chose a Non-Conformist as his best man.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
Well the BM is meant to be a bit edgy.
It was a great wedding. The only one that I have been to with a fight, with someone being thrown out, and pretty much everyone drunk. I woke up with a very sore head, and have never found my own wedding ring since. Fortunately Mrs Foxy was in an equally bad state.
She'd mislaid her's as well, and you decided the best thing was to call it a wash?
No, but at least she was there to know that I had not mislaid mine in an extramarital bit of dodginess.
I think I lost it when the Groom, Best man, myself and another were doing our imitation of the Chippendales on the dance floor.
Comments
Of the following people, do you believe that they do or do not generally tell the truth? (Net)
Johnson: -18
Cummings: -51
Sunak: +18
Gove: -22
Hancock: -24
I think there's one clear outlier there....
Person he's arguing with(everyone): "CoE is a Catholic Church, but not Roman Catholic"
HYUFD: "No it is not Catholic it is Protestant"
Phaw(e): "It is Catholic and Protestant. And here's what the CoE has to say about the whole thing, which agrees with me"
HYUFD: "It is Catholic but not Roman Catholic. I win, i think?"
It may well be Opinium has slightly overstated the Labour number just as YouGov overstated the Conservative number last month.
I presume the point of the comment was a jibe that good polls for Labour always get more coverage than good polls for the Conservatives.
And what treatment are they getting?
https://www.highnamchurch.org/history/attachment/042/
Needs the Ray-Bans even more than Cardiff Castle. And built 1851, so not a hope in hell (sorry) of claiming it as a pre-Henrician hangover.
Are they getting married now, before announcing another baby is on the way?
Rather better known today as the father of C. Hubert H. Parry, composer.
Never have I seen a Best man's speech go down so badly.
Best man: I was so pleased to see the Papal blessing for David and his wife, I didn't know that you could still buy them...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57296472
The creed states that.... I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church...but It doesn't mean papal autonomy in the Church of England..
The last wedding I attended before lockdown was a secular affair at the Temple of Peace in Cardiff. The programme contained the following rather wonderful line:
‘The best man respectfully requests that you do your best to drink his speech funny.’
Chelsea have been the better team. They deserve the lead.
It includes the remarkable tomb of Alice Chaucer, Duchess of Suffolk (and Geoffrey's granddaughter) which includes a carving of a cadaver underneath the sarcophagus.
(Just to add to the Tory cliches tonight!)
(Edited to correct for a partial mis-edit before posting)
The Apostles' Creed from the CoE website:
......I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
Amen.
I remember the first time I had to say this in Sunday school. I thought maybe I'd come to the wrong place as my parents were pointedly anti-Catholic. I subsequently resolved the confusion by pocketing my collection money and going train-spotting instead.
My own Church takes the position that as Bishops are not mentioned in the Bible, they shouldn't exist in the Church, but that is Protestantism for you.
How much one demonination believes something doesn't have any bearing on that other denominations might believe differently. I cannot believe you would believe that.
And given the shit a lot of Pope's got up to, and how they were often ignored, sometimes warred upon or even killed by people who in some cases considered themselves committed roman catholics, in a much more religious age than this one, blanket statements about roman catholics believing the Pope as literally God's representative need to be taken with a pinch of salt, even when it is officially the line.
Matters of faith are not so cast iron, even when they claim they are.
What other religions/denominations think doesn't matter.
Isolated, fearful and unfree – Australia may never be the same again.
JAMES BOLT
26th May 2021"
https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/05/26/australias-zero-covid-nightmare/
The second most edgy Best Man's speech was at my Brothers wedding near Kiel in North Germany.
Best Man: Welcome to this wedding in Schwelsig-Holstein, a most beautiful part of Germany, formerly Denmark...
Conservative supporters should be happy, confident and relaxed - your Party has an 82-seat majority, you lead all the polls comfortably, the local election results were very good and your principal opponent is struggling to even land a blow.
And yet...
Every anti-Government or anti-Johnson post had to be rebuffed and rebutted, every opportunity to show the Government in a positive light advanced. Labour and other parties criticised at every turn.
There's also this sense of injustice that somehow "the media" or "the metropolitan liberal elite" or "the woke" or whatever the flavour of the month is are somehow out to get the Conservative Party and even though the Party is clearly popular and going well, that isn't somehow being recognised (even though every poll suggests it is).
https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1398716807251378176
So our poll had a 12-point Tory lead, Survation had 10, YouGov had 14, Opinium have 6. Without debating who is right or wrong, I wonder which of these polls will get the most attentionThinking face
I do know someone who winds up his spouse by introducing her as his first wife.
A sausage and cheese bap, in my case
Edit: after all you have the Pope, the Holy Roman Emperor and God: I doubt if you would refer to any of those as "she".
Talks between Commons Leader and shadow Leader increasingly focus on tabling a Motion of Expulsion
It would be the first time this mechanism has been used to kick out an MP since 1954… https://twitter.com/AVMikhailova/status/1398750614897758210/photo/1
Its created a means for obsessives of any subject to argue about which didn't exist previously.
That's been PB Tory line for years. Especially post-2017.
I think I lost it when the Groom, Best man, myself and another were doing our imitation of the Chippendales on the dance floor.
Weddings are fun, good to have them back.
Erskine May (sad it is online now, my hardcopy used to be so cool)
The expulsion by the House of Commons of one of its Members may be regarded as an example of the House's power to regulate its own constitution, though it is, for convenience, treated here as one of the methods of punishment at the disposal of the House. Members have been expelled for a wide variety of causes.1 In some cases, such as the last case in which expulsion was imposed, it was in consequence of a Member being sentenced to a term of imprisonment.2 In the previous case (and the only other since 1945), the case arose from a finding of contempt by the Committee of Privileges and the motion that the Member be suspended for six months was amended to substitute the penalty of expulsion.3 The Minister moving the original motion to suspend the Member concerned warned ‘Expulsion is a very serious step. It could be a step open to very great abuse.’
4 Much more recently, similar concerns were expressed by the Committee on Standards, which noted in 2014: ‘There is a danger that the power of expulsion could be used to remove people because their opinions were unpopular, rather than because of misconduct. Members are elected, and the decision of the electorate should be respected.’5In recent years, Members have resigned before debates on their conduct in cases where the Committee on Standards and Privileges6 or the Committee on Standards7 had recommended suspensions for terms of six months.
Which is one way to describe Cash for Honours.
Words that make Mrs Foxy pale when I mention them at a function.
I can't stand weddings myself and always skip them if possible.
He is a disgrace to the party and his career should end now
Open to too much abuse.
Clearly intended for very sparing use in exceptional circumstances. Not sure this is one. Withdraw the whip permanently.