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Opinium finds that the public mostly believed the claims made to MPs on Wednesday by Dom Cummings –

SystemSystem Posts: 11,006
edited May 2021 in General
imageOpinium finds that the public mostly believed the claims made to MPs on Wednesday by Dom Cummings – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    edited May 2021
    First (again).
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    All priced in
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    Still a Tory lead of 6% with Opinium though even fully post Cummings, though that would be half the Tory lead at the 2019 general election
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331
    edited May 2021
    In a weeks time it will be up to 10% imho ...what questions were asked and what was the wording?
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,450
    I doubt the polling average has changed much after today's polls.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,108
    HYUFD said:

    Still a Tory lead of 6% with Opinium though even fully post Cummings, though that would be half the Tory lead at the 2019 general election

    Kaboom!
  • Options
    Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    To be honest, if I was the opposition then I’d be starting to despair and thinking “what will it take to shift these buggers”. I have previously compared this Government to Blair but maybe the SNP is a better comparator. Boris owns a certain vote and it’s been conceded to him. All of this stuff is noise.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited May 2021
    Leftwing parties across the western world have exchanged support from low education voters in the 1970s for high education voters now without becoming parties of the rich outside Italy and partly the US.

    The rightwing parties are now mainly parties forming coalitions between the rich and less educated, compared to the 1970s when rightwing parties were coalitions of the rich and the highly educated

    https://twitter.com/MattGrossmann/status/1398640527373971456?s=20
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    FPT as it took be a long time to type:
    If I were in charge of this (which would be a really bad idea) then I would try to move to a sort of lecture/tutorial model: use the Oak Academy stuff to introduce the ideas, perhaps replacing homework, and then reserve school time for going though questions and making sure that the ideas have been understood.
    The problems are obvious though: it assumes that school children have time, IT resources, and motivation to watch and take in the lecture side without the supervision of a teacher trained in the highly skilled art of making sure everyone is awake. It would also give a government immense control over exactly what was being taught.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Scott_xP said:
    Although if our second wave was bad (which it was) his opinion of a number of other European countries must be unprintable.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Congratulations to the happy couple - and to everyone else finally able to get married now weddings are legal again. Good luck to HYUFD with his soon.

    Weddings being postponed has been one of the (many) heartbreaking things of this pandemic. Our wedding took two years to plan (mainly so family overseas could all be here), so I can only imagine those who'd been planning theirs for long only to have it all torn up.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited May 2021
    Carnyx said:
    Seems like they are having a thanksgiving celebration next year and had the wedding service itself in front of 30 guests today, don't know whether they livestreamed it or not.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    alex_ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Although if our second wave was bad (which it was) his opinion of a number of other European countries must be unprintable.
    Wow you're right - it wasn't printed!
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2021
    The difference in the lead is again of course the big difference in Labour. One poll its 28, another 36....Tories as per usual since Christmas 42+%.
  • Options
    Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Carnyx said:
    With his track record, it’s probably a good idea to nail Boris down to some commitments early on....
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    I thought they said Boris wasn't getting married until next year? Wasn't that the Sun scoop last week?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Good.

    I think the Catholic Church lost all moral authority when the truth about its priests came out in the nineties.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,525
    Carnyx said:

    Catholic Cathedral? Didn't think that possible for a double divorcee.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590

    Congratulations to the happy couple - and to everyone else finally able to get married now weddings are legal again. Good luck to HYUFD with his soon.

    Weddings being postponed has been one of the (many) heartbreaking things of this pandemic. Our wedding took two years to plan (mainly so family overseas could all be here), so I can only imagine those who'd been planning theirs for long only to have it all torn up.

    Marriages have been legal for months (on and off), surely. It's just the big whoopees that weren't. There is a difference.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Carnyx said:

    Congratulations to the happy couple - and to everyone else finally able to get married now weddings are legal again. Good luck to HYUFD with his soon.

    Weddings being postponed has been one of the (many) heartbreaking things of this pandemic. Our wedding took two years to plan (mainly so family overseas could all be here), so I can only imagine those who'd been planning theirs for long only to have it all torn up.

    Marriages have been legal for months (on and off), surely. It's just the big whoopees that weren't. There is a difference.
    Marriages yes, weddings to me entail guests etc.

    A wedding without guests is not the same thing.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,108

    I thought they said Boris wasn't getting married until next year? Wasn't that the Sun scoop last week?

    They've clearly had to do it in a mad panic. Wonder what the story is there.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited May 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and I would imagine had a long confession with the priest beforehand
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Means young Wilfred will be in the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic church.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2021
    kinabalu said:

    I thought they said Boris wasn't getting married until next year? Wasn't that the Sun scoop last week?

    They've clearly had to do it in a mad panic. Wonder what the story is there.
    Or somebody at the Currant Bun got it wrong?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Catholic Cathedral? Didn't think that possible for a double divorcee.
    You aren't a Catholic then.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    I thought they said Boris wasn't getting married until next year? Wasn't that the Sun scoop last week?

    They've clearly had to do it in a mad panic. Wonder what the story is there.
    Much more likely they wanted some privacy and not to risk having protestors or other garbage outside on their special day.

    Fair enough too. The increasing trend started (AFAIK) by dickhead American religious cultists of picketting weddings etc is despicable.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,525
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before . Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    In which case, is he our first Catholic PM?

    3rd time lucky I suppose. The triumph of hope over experience.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and I would imagine had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    Absolutely no need for him to convert. Wilfred being brought up a Catholic is sufficient.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,525
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Catholic Cathedral? Didn't think that possible for a double divorcee.
    You aren't a Catholic then.
    No, a Non-Conformist Protestant.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,043
    Carnyx said:

    Congratulations to the happy couple - and to everyone else finally able to get married now weddings are legal again. Good luck to HYUFD with his soon.

    Weddings being postponed has been one of the (many) heartbreaking things of this pandemic. Our wedding took two years to plan (mainly so family overseas could all be here), so I can only imagine those who'd been planning theirs for long only to have it all torn up.

    Marriages have been legal for months (on and off), surely. It's just the big whoopees that weren't. There is a difference.
    I love a wedding.

    When i got married on Black Friday many years ago we had a string quartet playing at the wedding breakfast (no seriously, we did) I wonder if Johnson had any violinists?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before . Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    In which case, is he our first Catholic PM?

    3rd time lucky I suppose. The triumph of hope over experience.
    Blair.
  • Options
    borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    So the polling says Boris is screwed..

    Will that lead to another boost in his personal and party raings?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before . Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    In which case, is he our first Catholic PM?

    3rd time lucky I suppose. The triumph of hope over experience.
    Blair.
    Blair only converted after he stepped down from being PM didn't he?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    edited May 2021

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before . Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    In which case, is he our first Catholic PM?

    3rd time lucky I suppose. The triumph of hope over experience.
    Blair.
    Blair only converted after he stepped down from being PM didn't he?
    Which is very interesting, in that it implies he saw some issues with that action if done while he was PM (though the timing might be for other reasons, tbf). I'm not quite sure what they actually were.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before . Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    In which case, is he our first Catholic PM?

    3rd time lucky I suppose. The triumph of hope over experience.
    Blair.
    Blair only converted after he stepped down from being PM didn't he?
    Correct.

    Boris just keeps iconclasming.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,176
    Good evening from a sweltering Manchester. Been to see my parents for the first time in 15 months - it was bliss. Going again tomorrow.

    My (73 year-old) dad has physically shrunk massively since I last saw him. Insists his gaunt weight and muscle loss image is just old age and not something nasty. Not sure about that...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
    It is halfway between the Roman Catholic Church and most Protestant churches, it is not fully Catholic as it does not include all Catholic doctrine nor does it recognise the authority of the Pope over it and the Vatican also sees it as a breakaway church not fully part of the one true faith
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before . Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    In which case, is he our first Catholic PM?

    3rd time lucky I suppose. The triumph of hope over experience.
    Blair.
    Blair only converted after he stepped down from being PM didn't he?
    Blair only made it public after he left office.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,525

    Carnyx said:

    Congratulations to the happy couple - and to everyone else finally able to get married now weddings are legal again. Good luck to HYUFD with his soon.

    Weddings being postponed has been one of the (many) heartbreaking things of this pandemic. Our wedding took two years to plan (mainly so family overseas could all be here), so I can only imagine those who'd been planning theirs for long only to have it all torn up.

    Marriages have been legal for months (on and off), surely. It's just the big whoopees that weren't. There is a difference.
    I love a wedding.

    When i got married on Black Friday many years ago we had a string quartet playing at the wedding breakfast (no seriously, we did) I wonder if Johnson had any violinists?
    I think he knows at least one...
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before . Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    In which case, is he our first Catholic PM?

    3rd time lucky I suppose. The triumph of hope over experience.
    Blair.
    Blair only converted after he stepped down from being PM didn't he?
    Which is very interesting, in that it implies he saw some issues with that action if done while he was PM (though the timing might be for other reasons, tbf). I'm not quite sure what they actually were.
    Probably his role in recommending bishops/archbishops.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
    It is halfway between the Roman Catholic Church and most Protestant churches, it is not fully Catholic as it does not include all Catholic doctrine nor does it recognise the authority of the Pope over it and the Vatican also sees it as a breakaway church not fully part of the one true faith
    Its not Roman Catholic but it is catholic.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,176
    I'm glad I didn't head to the Lake District this weekend! M6 northbound was stop start from the lakes turnoff at J36 all the way past Preston and onto the M61 - that was at lunchtime,
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before . Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    In which case, is he our first Catholic PM?

    3rd time lucky I suppose. The triumph of hope over experience.
    Blair.
    Blair only converted after he stepped down from being PM didn't he?
    Which is very interesting, in that it implies he saw some issues with that action if done while he was PM (though the timing might be for other reasons, tbf). I'm not quite sure what they actually were.
    Especially as both the other Party leaders were Catholics for a spell.
    IDS and Charlie Kennedy.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    edited May 2021
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before . Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    In which case, is he our first Catholic PM?

    3rd time lucky I suppose. The triumph of hope over experience.
    Blair.
    Blair only converted after he stepped down from being PM didn't he?
    Which is very interesting, in that it implies he saw some issues with that action if done while he was PM (though the timing might be for other reasons, tbf). I'm not quite sure what they actually were.
    Probably his role in recommending bishops/archbishops.
    Of course, yes, noew you point it out.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
    Generally speaking in Church of England churches idolotarybis out. M
    No Saints to.pray for wherever you look.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,525
    Surprised Man City have been so outplayed. Hard to see them getting back into the match.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,573
    Well, quite:

    So our poll had a 12-point Tory lead, Survation had 10, YouGov had 14, Opinium have 6. Without debating who is right or wrong, I wonder which of these polls will get the most attention

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1398716807251378176?s=20
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    edited May 2021
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    The Head of the Church of England is the Queen...

    Edit: Which means it is probably the only major religion with a female head.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,525
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Isn't HM the head of the Anglican Church?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,108
    edited May 2021

    kinabalu said:

    I thought they said Boris wasn't getting married until next year? Wasn't that the Sun scoop last week?

    They've clearly had to do it in a mad panic. Wonder what the story is there.
    Much more likely they wanted some privacy and not to risk having protestors or other garbage outside on their special day.

    Fair enough too. The increasing trend started (AFAIK) by dickhead American religious cultists of picketting weddings etc is despicable.
    Thought you had to post the banns for 20 days beforehand. Did that happen? If not, why not? If so, how come it wasn't reported? Is this marriage actually legal? Or is it a sham? If it is a sham, why are they doing it? Who are they trying to fool and why? There really are a lot of questions here. But let's see how it plays out rather than speculate. There could well be a perfectly innocent explanation for everything.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited May 2021
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and I would imagine had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    Absolutely no need for him to convert. Wilfred being brought up a Catholic is sufficient.
    Maybe just as well, as a Roman Catholic he would be legally prohibited from advising the Crown on appointments within the Church of England and Church of Scotland and could be removed from office if he did under s18 Roman Catholic Relief Act 1829.

    https://twitter.com/semperadiuvans/status/1398737578828967936?s=20
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,176
    Good for Boris getting married again! He can write a book to start saving for the inevitable divorce when he shags someone else and betrays yet another wife. Or as Rod Stewart put it,
    “Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house.”
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    I thought it was Henry VIII and his descendants. He certainly decided who was Archbish and his descendants still do so (or the decision is made in their name, which is the same thing formally).
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    And I'm surtprised at your interpretation of Henry VIII's settlement, by the way. So too would be Henry VIII.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited May 2021
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Isn't HM the head of the Anglican Church?
    The monarch is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England, a ceremonial title mainly, it is the Archbishop of Canterbury who actually runs it as the Pope runs the Roman Catholic Church
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    Trivia question: what is the shortest time between someone being ordained and their accession to the Archbishopric of Canterbury?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦‍♂️

    The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.

    But HYUFD knows better. 😂
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,573
    I wonder if this has changed in the intervening 4 years?

    Polls more favourable to Labour get more re-tweets:

    https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/sexy-labour-leaning-polls-get-more-traction-on-twitter-4f3113415a88
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    How did Chelsea miss then!
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Well, quite:

    So our poll had a 12-point Tory lead, Survation had 10, YouGov had 14, Opinium have 6. Without debating who is right or wrong, I wonder which of these polls will get the most attention

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1398716807251378176?s=20

    Well - the 'outlier' of course on here. All the rest are ignored.......
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Good for Boris getting married again! He can write a book to start saving for the inevitable divorce when he shags someone else and betrays yet another wife. Or as Rod Stewart put it,
    “Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house.”

    For the many not the few.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦‍♂️

    The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.

    But HYUFD knows better. 😂
    Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,573
    SNP Treasurer resigns:

    Douglas Chapman, the MP for Dunfermline and West Fife, announced he had resigned as national treasurer of the party on Saturday evening. Mr Chapman took over in the role last year.

    On Twitter, he said: "Despite having a resounding mandate from members to introduce more transparency into the party's finances, I have not received the support or financial information to carry out the fiduciary duties of National Treasurer.


    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/douglas-chapman-resigns-as-snp-national-treasurer-over-lack-of-support-3255260
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I thought they said Boris wasn't getting married until next year? Wasn't that the Sun scoop last week?

    They've clearly had to do it in a mad panic. Wonder what the story is there.
    Much more likely they wanted some privacy and not to risk having protestors or other garbage outside on their special day.

    Fair enough too. The increasing trend started (AFAIK) by dickhead American religious cultists of picketting weddings etc is despicable.
    Thought you had to post the banns for 20 days beforehand. Did that happen? If not, why not? If so, how come it wasn't reported? Is this marriage actually legal? Or is it a sham? If it is a sham, why are they doing it? Who are they trying to fool and why? There really are a lot of questions here. But let's see how it plays out rather than speculate. There could well be a perfectly innocent explanation for everything.
    It used to be the case that you could get around the banns bit with a 'special licence' but even that had to be put up in the noticeboard outside the kirk, sorry church. But I am thinking C of E here. No idea what happens with RCs today.

    Possibly thetre has been some security exemption (or public health - certainly think of the risk of reptile hordes of hacks swarming the nave and chancel, not to mention the balconies on the transept in the search for good camera angles).
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,176
    How are we arguing about this? CofE is a catholic church, it isn't THE Catholic church.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
    Q: Is the C of E Protestant or Catholic?
    A: Yes.
    Yes it is or yes it isn’t?
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦‍♂️

    The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.

    But HYUFD knows better. 😂
    Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
    Catholic is an adjective that means universal. I have catholic tastes in music for instance: that doesn't mean I only like Gregorian chant.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    Congratulations to the happy couple - and to everyone else finally able to get married now weddings are legal again. Good luck to HYUFD with his soon.

    Weddings being postponed has been one of the (many) heartbreaking things of this pandemic. Our wedding took two years to plan (mainly so family overseas could all be here), so I can only imagine those who'd been planning theirs for long only to have it all torn up.

    Marriages have been legal for months (on and off), surely. It's just the big whoopees that weren't. There is a difference.
    I love a wedding.

    When i got married on Black Friday many years ago we had a string quartet playing at the wedding breakfast (no seriously, we did) I wonder if Johnson had any violinists?
    I think he knows at least one...
    Although whoever played at his wedding, none surpass his skills in all aspects of fiddling.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625

    Trivia question: what is the shortest time between someone being ordained and their accession to the Archbishopric of Canterbury?

    Given there were popes who were not ordained until the day prior or day of their confirmation as pope, I'm going to say 0 days.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
    Q: Is the C of E Protestant or Catholic?
    A: Yes.
    Yes it is or yes it isn’t?
    correct
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590

    Trivia question: what is the shortest time between someone being ordained and their accession to the Archbishopric of Canterbury?

    Two days?
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,360

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
    Generally speaking in Church of England churches idolotarybis out. M
    No Saints to.pray for wherever you look.
    Depends where you go.
    On one hand, there are spookily poignant places like Ely Cathedral, where all the statues in the Lady Chapel were beheaded at the Reformation. But there are also C of E places where you can't move for icons, statues and whatnot.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Isn't HM the head of the Anglican Church?
    The monarch is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England, a ceremonial title mainly, it is the Archbishop of Canterbury who actually runs it as the Pope runs the Roman Catholic Church
    'Actually' is not the word we want. It is the formal and legal title we want. And that is HMtQ. Never mind if she delegates it to the PM and +Cantuar in practice. She is the one with the powers.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦‍♂️
    Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this

    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.


    Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    Yes, that's what I said, the C of E is a Catholic Church.
    Q: Is the C of E Protestant or Catholic?
    A: Yes.
    Yes it is or yes it isn’t?
    Just yes.

    I'm a physics teacher: I'm used to things that are two contradictory things at the same time (both from the physics and the teaching tbf).
  • Options
    AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I thought they said Boris wasn't getting married until next year? Wasn't that the Sun scoop last week?

    They've clearly had to do it in a mad panic. Wonder what the story is there.
    Much more likely they wanted some privacy and not to risk having protestors or other garbage outside on their special day.

    Fair enough too. The increasing trend started (AFAIK) by dickhead American religious cultists of picketting weddings etc is despicable.
    Thought you had to post the banns for 20 days beforehand. Did that happen? If not, why not? If so, how come it wasn't reported? Is this marriage actually legal? Or is it a sham? If it is a sham, why are they doing it? Who are they trying to fool and why? There really are a lot of questions here. But let's see how it plays out rather than speculate. There could well be a perfectly innocent explanation for everything.
    Is this how the Obama Truthers operated? That is not, for the avoidance of doubt, a compliment.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,108
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I thought they said Boris wasn't getting married until next year? Wasn't that the Sun scoop last week?

    They've clearly had to do it in a mad panic. Wonder what the story is there.
    Much more likely they wanted some privacy and not to risk having protestors or other garbage outside on their special day.

    Fair enough too. The increasing trend started (AFAIK) by dickhead American religious cultists of picketting weddings etc is despicable.
    Thought you had to post the banns for 20 days beforehand. Did that happen? If not, why not? If so, how come it wasn't reported? Is this marriage actually legal? Or is it a sham? If it is a sham, why are they doing it? Who are they trying to fool and why? There really are a lot of questions here. But let's see how it plays out rather than speculate. There could well be a perfectly innocent explanation for everything.
    It used to be the case that you could get around the banns bit with a 'special licence' but even that had to be put up in the noticeboard outside the kirk, sorry church. But I am thinking C of E here. No idea what happens with RCs today.

    Possibly thetre has been some security exemption (or public health - certainly think of the risk of reptile hordes of hacks swarming the nave and chancel, not to mention the balconies on the transept in the search for good camera angles).
    Yes, I thought it was a hard legal requirement but I might be wrong. It's been a while now.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    Trivia question: what is the shortest time between someone being ordained and their accession to the Archbishopric of Canterbury?

    Wasn’t Theodore of Tarsus (668-690) only ordained after his appointment?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦‍♂️

    The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.

    But HYUFD knows better. 😂
    Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
    It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦‍♂️
    Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this

    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.


    Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
    To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to

    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral

    Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    kle4 said:

    Trivia question: what is the shortest time between someone being ordained and their accession to the Archbishopric of Canterbury?

    Given there were popes who were not ordained until the day prior or day of their confirmation as pope, I'm going to say 0 days.
    Carnyx said:

    Trivia question: what is the shortest time between someone being ordained and their accession to the Archbishopric of Canterbury?

    Two days?
    Becket was ordained a priest on 2 June 1162 at Canterbury, and on 3 June 1162 was consecrated as archbishop by Henry of Blois, the Bishop of Winchester
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I thought they said Boris wasn't getting married until next year? Wasn't that the Sun scoop last week?

    They've clearly had to do it in a mad panic. Wonder what the story is there.
    Much more likely they wanted some privacy and not to risk having protestors or other garbage outside on their special day.

    Fair enough too. The increasing trend started (AFAIK) by dickhead American religious cultists of picketting weddings etc is despicable.
    Thought you had to post the banns for 20 days beforehand. Did that happen? If not, why not? If so, how come it wasn't reported? Is this marriage actually legal? Or is it a sham? If it is a sham, why are they doing it? Who are they trying to fool and why? There really are a lot of questions here. But let's see how it plays out rather than speculate. There could well be a perfectly innocent explanation for everything.
    You're the only one speculating.

    Its rather nasty really.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    kle4 said:



    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦‍♂️

    The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.

    But HYUFD knows better. 😂
    Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
    It doesn't matter what it means to them, they don't get decide for everyone, that's why other demoninations exist.
    Hyufd’s contortions on this are papalbull.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625

    How are we arguing about this? CofE is a catholic church, it isn't THE Catholic church.

    Because being wrong, even on a minor lexical point, is impossible!
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦‍♂️

    The Church of England's own website confirms that it is catholic.

    But HYUFD knows better. 😂
    Catholic certainly means Roman Catholic for the Vatican
    The Church of England doesn't answer to the Vatican and self-describes itself as Catholic.

    So who is right about the Church of England? The Church of England, or HYUFD?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Nobody said it was Roman Catholic. What was specifically said is it is Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic. 🤦‍♂️
    Indeed, this was this was the comment that sparked all this

    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.


    Rewriting history doesn't work when quotes are nested.
    To be fair to HYUFD, that was in reply to

    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral

    Which could be interpreted both ways, but I think most would interpret it as meaning catholic church churches.
    But it's still like saying "The Protestant Church does not recognise marriages ..."
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Clearly the Catholic Church isn’t fussy about who it marries these days.
    Theologically the Catholic Church does not recognise marriages not conducted in a Catholic church or cathedral (whether in registry offices or Church of England churches etc), so as Boris has been an Anglican since he was a teenager in the eyes of the Catholic Church he has never been married before. Presumably he has converted back to Rome to enable him to be married in Westminster Cathedral today and presumably had a long confession with the priest beforehand
    You are not being clear. The C of E is a Catholic Church. Presumably you mean the Roman Catholic Church.
    No, the Church of England is a Protestant Church which broke away from Papal authority in the Reformation, it does not preach and practice the sanctity of confession nor the Holy Sacrament either.

    It remains Catholic in the sense it views itself as part of the universal church of Christ in continuity with the early apostolic church but Protestant as shaped by the principles of the Reformation such as the Book of Common Prayer
    The Church of England's website says you're wrong. They say that the CoE is catholic.

    https://www.churchofengland.org/news-and-media/media-centre/history-church-england

    The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it still has today. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'
    It contains elements of Catholicism and elements of Protestantism, it is not fully either
    So you're saying the Church of England is wrong in saying that the Church of England is catholic? 🤔

    I knew you thought that you knew better than the Tories who was a Tory, and that even Tory Cabinet Secretaries were not real Tories to you - I had no idea you knew better than the Church what the Church is!
    It has elements of Catholicism, it is not a Roman Catholic Church however.

    The head of the Church of England is the Archbishop of Canterbury not the Pope and that has been the case since the 16th century
    Isn't HM the head of the Anglican Church?
    The monarch is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England, a ceremonial title mainly, it is the Archbishop of Canterbury who actually runs it as the Pope runs the Roman Catholic Church
    True. She is still the Head though.
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