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In just three weeks there’ve been CON leads ranging between 1% and 18% in the published national pol

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    I want to return to the non-story of the Daylesford Organic food deliveries, which were apparently provided “at cost”, but for which Johnson claims he paid personally.

    The bill amounts to nearly £800 *per week* for a family of 2.5, and Daylesford does not do nappies and baby food.

    How is that even possible?
    Full price Daylesford is expensive, but not THAT expensive, and remember this was “at cost”.

    https://twitter.com/Coldwar_Steve/status/1396748909616279558
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Sandpit said:


    That said, Belarus are going to be in deep trouble for this one, it’s really not the done thing to use military assets to force an overflying civilian airliner to land, just so you can haul a passenger you don’t like off the plane. If I were a Belarusian diplomat in Europe, I would be packing my bags this morning.

    Although the principles here seem pretty flexible; Previously there was a case where a country got its allies to abruptly yank permission to overfly them when it was already in the air to force it to land in another allied country in the hope of capturing a dissident, and the plane belonged to no less than the president of the state it was flying to, and everyone was just like lol, whatever.
    I think that was equally disgraceful.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Re: Bailey.

    If one is to accept political appointments to the HoL, I don’t see why he shouldn’t be a candidate.
    He’s spent most of his life “losing” on behalf of the Conservatives and his performance in the mayoralty was - at least electorally - creditable.

    I actually thought he ran a decent campaign in the circs (not that I agreed with a single thing he said).
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593
    Scott_xP said:

    I want to return to the non-story of the Daylesford Organic food deliveries, which were apparently provided “at cost”, but for which Johnson claims he paid personally.

    The bill amounts to nearly £800 *per week* for a family of 2.5, and Daylesford does not do nappies and baby food.

    How is that even possible?
    Full price Daylesford is expensive, but not THAT expensive, and remember this was “at cost”.

    https://twitter.com/Coldwar_Steve/status/1396748909616279558
    Blast through a magnum of their pink champagne every couple of days and it soon adds up.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2021
    Some continuing good news from this model matching forecasts with outcomes:

    steve jackson
    @goalprojection

    Updated COVID-19 reported comparison to model. Reported deaths now running consistently below model (27 Feb assumptions). I've also included a scenario where R increases by 50% (to illustrate potential of Indian variant).

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    On topic:

    The 1% leads were very obviously - as some of us pointed out at the time - a temporary suppressive effect due to the daily saturation coverage in the media treating Boris as a serial killer for getting some wallpaper. Then the coverage eased off in the days before the election, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and it was the Tories winning Hartlepool by almost 7000 votes and taking hundreds of council seats, while Starmer was left with the worst local election results for a new LOTO in 40 years and his leadership imploding.

    The exact same thing happened a few days before the GE with Phonegate - a firestorm over some other petty bullshit, namely Boris refusing to look at a phone and then putting it in his pocket. The result was that the final YouGov MRP tanked to show a majority of only 28, causing much glee to those who imagined they'd managed to get Boris at last. A few days later, the coverage was forgotten, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and Boris won an 80-seat majority and the highest share of the vote in 40 years.

    It's almost as if a pattern is starting to emerge, but what could it possibly be... :wink:

    All good points but let's not forget that you are comfortable with a lying PM. Others not so much.
    Ah, but the 'lying' PM just achieved the highest polling lead - outlier or not - for any government that has been in power for this long a period in living memory. Even @ydoethur - to whom I'm happy to defer on modern history - could produce only a 17-point lead to match it: John Major, a year before he won the largest number of votes in British electoral history. Any guesses for who holds the current number 2 record?

    Clearly enough people have no absolutist moral attachment to Truth as if it were a Platonic Form, but take people and politicians as they find them, and simply like what they like...
    Don't disagree either. What a shame though. Plus there's lying, there's failure to adhere to a political promise, and then there's being a completely immoral lying solipsistic twat and rubbing the fans', your faces in it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Lol - in Scotland 18-29 year olds can now book a vaccination online, but if you're 30 or over you need to wait for your letter in the post !!
    https://register.vacs.nhs.scot/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:


    That said, Belarus are going to be in deep trouble for this one, it’s really not the done thing to use military assets to force an overflying civilian airliner to land, just so you can haul a passenger you don’t like off the plane. If I were a Belarusian diplomat in Europe, I would be packing my bags this morning.

    Although the principles here seem pretty flexible; Previously there was a case where a country got its allies to abruptly yank permission to overfly them when it was already in the air to force it to land in another allied country in the hope of capturing a dissident, and the plane belonged to no less than the president of the state it was flying to, and everyone was just like lol, whatever.
    I think that was equally disgraceful.
    Disgraceful, but not quite equally so.
    In the present case there was a threat to shoot down the aircraft and kill scores people. Which seems a very odd thing to do if you genuinely believe that there might (or might not) have been a bomb on board.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Just read an entire thread from a prominent independent SAGE expert on vaccines efficacy.

    It could be my optimism bias, but some people seem trapped in a very wierd mindset (chicken little syndrome) seeing the worst possible outcomes in every circumstance. How do they climbdown?


    https://twitter.com/cox_a_r/status/1396711153183690752?s=21

    They won’t. They’ll just ignore they ever wrote it.

    Are they really getting any coverage these days? Outside the Guardian and the twitter bubble, I rarely see them mentioned.
    They still seem to have many of the go to "expert scientists" on Sky.

    Though increasingly it seems the Independent SAGE moniker is omitted when introducing them. Almost like they know its become completely discredited, but they can still parrot the same lines without using that name.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic:

    The 1% leads were very obviously - as some of us pointed out at the time - a temporary suppressive effect due to the daily saturation coverage in the media treating Boris as a serial killer for getting some wallpaper. Then the coverage eased off in the days before the election, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and it was the Tories winning Hartlepool by almost 7000 votes and taking hundreds of council seats, while Starmer was left with the worst local election results for a new LOTO in 40 years and his leadership imploding.

    The exact same thing happened a few days before the GE with Phonegate - a firestorm over some other petty bullshit, namely Boris refusing to look at a phone and then putting it in his pocket. The result was that the final YouGov MRP tanked to show a majority of only 28, causing much glee to those who imagined they'd managed to get Boris at last. A few days later, the coverage was forgotten, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and Boris won an 80-seat majority and the highest share of the vote in 40 years.

    It's almost as if a pattern is starting to emerge, but what could it possibly be... :wink:

    All good points but let's not forget that you are comfortable with a lying PM. Others not so much.
    Ah, but the 'lying' PM just achieved the highest polling lead - outlier or not - for any government that has been in power for this long a period in living memory. Even @ydoethur - to whom I'm happy to defer on modern history - could produce only a 17-point lead to match it: John Major, a year before he won the largest number of votes in British electoral history. Any guesses for who holds the current number 2 record?

    Clearly enough people have no absolutist moral attachment to Truth as if it were a Platonic Form, but take people and politicians as they find them, and simply like what they like...
    Don't disagree either. What a shame though. Plus there's lying, there's failure to adhere to a political promise, and then there's being a completely immoral lying solipsistic twat and rubbing the fans', your faces in it.
    The fans seem to celebrate it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic:

    The 1% leads were very obviously - as some of us pointed out at the time - a temporary suppressive effect due to the daily saturation coverage in the media treating Boris as a serial killer for getting some wallpaper. Then the coverage eased off in the days before the election, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and it was the Tories winning Hartlepool by almost 7000 votes and taking hundreds of council seats, while Starmer was left with the worst local election results for a new LOTO in 40 years and his leadership imploding.

    The exact same thing happened a few days before the GE with Phonegate - a firestorm over some other petty bullshit, namely Boris refusing to look at a phone and then putting it in his pocket. The result was that the final YouGov MRP tanked to show a majority of only 28, causing much glee to those who imagined they'd managed to get Boris at last. A few days later, the coverage was forgotten, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and Boris won an 80-seat majority and the highest share of the vote in 40 years.

    It's almost as if a pattern is starting to emerge, but what could it possibly be... :wink:

    All good points but let's not forget that you are comfortable with a lying PM. Others not so much.
    Ah, but the 'lying' PM just achieved the highest polling lead - outlier or not - for any government that has been in power for this long a period in living memory. Even @ydoethur - to whom I'm happy to defer on modern history - could produce only a 17-point lead to match it: John Major, a year before he won the largest number of votes in British electoral history. Any guesses for who holds the current number 2 record?

    Clearly enough people have no absolutist moral attachment to Truth as if it were a Platonic Form, but take people and politicians as they find them, and simply like what they like...
    Don't disagree either. What a shame though. Plus there's lying, there's failure to adhere to a political promise, and then there's being a completely immoral lying solipsistic twat and rubbing the fans', your faces in it.
    The fans seem to celebrate it.
    There is one particular commentator on here, who I won’t name, who does indeed seem to love sticking it to non-Johnsonians.

    He puts me in mind of a playground bully.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    mwadams said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I want to return to the non-story of the Daylesford Organic food deliveries, which were apparently provided “at cost”, but for which Johnson claims he paid personally.

    The bill amounts to nearly £800 *per week* for a family of 2.5, and Daylesford does not do nappies and baby food.

    How is that even possible?
    Full price Daylesford is expensive, but not THAT expensive, and remember this was “at cost”.

    https://twitter.com/Coldwar_Steve/status/1396748909616279558
    Blast through a magnum of their pink champagne every couple of days and it soon adds up.
    I challenge you to create a basket of goods worth £800 a week.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited May 2021

    mwadams said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I want to return to the non-story of the Daylesford Organic food deliveries, which were apparently provided “at cost”, but for which Johnson claims he paid personally.

    The bill amounts to nearly £800 *per week* for a family of 2.5, and Daylesford does not do nappies and baby food.

    How is that even possible?
    Full price Daylesford is expensive, but not THAT expensive, and remember this was “at cost”.

    https://twitter.com/Coldwar_Steve/status/1396748909616279558
    Blast through a magnum of their pink champagne every couple of days and it soon adds up.
    I challenge you to create a basket of goods worth £800 a week.
    Yes, it's a bit of a stretch even with lobster and good wine. Expensive wines are abou the only way you could do it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    F1: couple of quirky stats about Sainz's podium finishes:
    https://twitter.com/LauraLeslieF1/status/1396748445558444032

    Every time it's happened, Hamilton has finished 7th.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic:

    The 1% leads were very obviously - as some of us pointed out at the time - a temporary suppressive effect due to the daily saturation coverage in the media treating Boris as a serial killer for getting some wallpaper. Then the coverage eased off in the days before the election, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and it was the Tories winning Hartlepool by almost 7000 votes and taking hundreds of council seats, while Starmer was left with the worst local election results for a new LOTO in 40 years and his leadership imploding.

    The exact same thing happened a few days before the GE with Phonegate - a firestorm over some other petty bullshit, namely Boris refusing to look at a phone and then putting it in his pocket. The result was that the final YouGov MRP tanked to show a majority of only 28, causing much glee to those who imagined they'd managed to get Boris at last. A few days later, the coverage was forgotten, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and Boris won an 80-seat majority and the highest share of the vote in 40 years.

    It's almost as if a pattern is starting to emerge, but what could it possibly be... :wink:

    All good points but let's not forget that you are comfortable with a lying PM. Others not so much.
    Ah, but the 'lying' PM just achieved the highest polling lead - outlier or not - for any government that has been in power for this long a period in living memory. Even @ydoethur - to whom I'm happy to defer on modern history - could produce only a 17-point lead to match it: John Major, a year before he won the largest number of votes in British electoral history. Any guesses for who holds the current number 2 record?

    Clearly enough people have no absolutist moral attachment to Truth as if it were a Platonic Form, but take people and politicians as they find them, and simply like what they like...
    Don't disagree either. What a shame though. Plus there's lying, there's failure to adhere to a political promise, and then there's being a completely immoral lying solipsistic twat and rubbing the fans', your faces in it.
    If all this is true about Boris then Labour in particular have the perfect opportunity to cleanse the stables with their: Honesty, Better Policies, Truth, Consistency, Competence, Top Marks for Transparency, A Front Bench of Attlees and Roy Jenkinses, A Scheme For Dealing with Deficit and Paying Off the Debt.

    What can Diane Abbott, Richard Burgon and Laura Pidcock be waiting for? Why on earth are they not already at 60% in the polls?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Charles said:

    The reality is Iran was using her as a pawn. She was not going to be released u til every ounce of value has been extracted. Boris’s comments were used as an excuse rather than influencing the outcome

    Having an easy excuse influenced the outcome
    The only thing any politician could have said to change her status was "We will pay you the billions you think we owe you."

    She was staying put until they got their way. And she was deliberately chosen for ransom because the regime was banking on people like you saying "Oh, but she has a little girl..."
    And 'people like you' will apparently excuse anything from Johnson.
    Oh, not anything. I think he has been very weak in implementing a green strategy that gives jobs to this country - instead, they have gone to China, France, Denmark, Sweden and Germany.

    But I seem to have a better understanding of international negotiating than the hand-wringing tendency.
    I thought the Teeside Freeport was designed around windmill blade manufacturing?
    Turbines and structure still imported.

    As are virtually all solar panels.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Some continuing good news from this model matching forecasts with outcomes:

    steve jackson
    @goalprojection

    Updated COVID-19 reported comparison to model. Reported deaths now running consistently below model (27 Feb assumptions). I've also included a scenario where R increases by 50% (to illustrate potential of Indian variant).

    That's not matching predictions, that's comprehensively below predictions.

    Change the scale to zoom in on where it is now, and its well below prediction.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Any poll that has Tories or Labour below 30% should be treated with a degree of scepticism...the chances of either party led by somebody vaguely reasonable getting such a low vote share is incredibly unlikely...especially as the Lib thingies get no coverage these days.

    What I can't work out is what is behind this large Lab drop off in vote share? Its not like Starmer has been revealed as friends of Hamas like old Jezza or tied to Martin Bashir or been caught getting donors to pay for his home.

    He has just carried on as before, boring Keith...those that like that, why would they have changed their mind over the past month, as he has again been boring Keith.

    Four possible factors

    The vaccine going well/light at the end of the tunnel makes Boris look good, & Boris looking good makes people think Sir Keir can’t be doing his job

    Sir Keir getting more media attention, and people not liking what they see

    The local elections and Hartlepool making him look like a loser

    The obsession with nitpicking about wallpaper/Dyson/John Lewis stunt making him look petty

    But if Labour win the next By Election his ratings will surely improve. I don’t think the Piers Morgan program will help, because only people that like him already will watch
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    The curious thing about the polls in recent months is how rapidly they have swung one way and then another. My theory is that's related to the marmite nature of the PM. It's impossible to be neutral on him.

    That means that if everything is going well, he is triumphant, but also that his support melts away like the snow in... erm... late May when things go badly.

    So to bet on the next election is mostly to bet on where we are in the love-hate cycle in a few years time. And whilst regaining control of the election date will help him a lot there, it's not foolproof.

    And there is still the Max Hastings theory- everyone who has dealings with the Bozza regrets it in the end. It's just that some people haven't regretted it yet. Eventually the gap between his ability to tell stories and to deliver on them gets too big to ignore. (See fishermen, unionists, farmers...)

    When everything was going badly for Boris it was neck and neck. Now everything’s going well, he is streets ahead, that’s why I think the Cons are a good bet at EVS for a majority
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523



    I don't know what he cried about. I understand grieving because I've been there got the t shirt. If it was that then that is not an issue

    The trouble is that politicians are all viewed with about the same amount of opprobrium and mistrust. The politician is considered to be a liar before they have opened their mouth and everything they do or say is questioned. Were Starmer's tears crocodile or real.... I have no idea.

    Its only if they were not real that this interview will come back to haunt him....

    The story's here:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9608419/Keir-Starmer-breaks-tears-Piers-Morgans-TV-show.html

    Seems unlikely to have been fake grief, don't you think? Politicians are human too, and if he isn't upset by the things described then he would be remarkably cold-blooded. Doesn't mean anything politically, or shouldn't, but I think in itself it's fair enough.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Epitaph for the world's oldest company.
    https://worksthatwork.com/3/kongo-gumi
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,357

    I tend to agree with the hypothesis that there are two kinds of voters, those betrayed by Johnson, and those who have been betrayed but don’t realise it yet.

    The problem (for people like me who prize good governance and accountability), is that it could be a long time before the electorate finally turn against Johnson.

    My one confident prediction is that when they do, Johnson’s name and reputation will be utterly toxic.

    I want to return to the non-story of the Daylesford Organic food deliveries, which were apparently provided “at cost”, but for which Johnson claims he paid personally.

    The bill amounts to nearly £800 *per week* for a family of 2.5, and Daylesford does not do nappies and baby food.

    How is that even possible?
    Full price Daylesford is expensive, but not THAT expensive, and remember this was “at cost”.

    Boris strikes me as someone who is very generous in a James VI sort of way.

    Maybe he's providing food for close working colleagues as they are working long hours. Perhaps he dreads a quiet dinner table and is always inviting people to share a meal and drinks.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Thread on current EU Belarus sanctions:

    https://twitter.com/tomwlost/status/1396573335346163713?s=21
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385



    I don't know what he cried about. I understand grieving because I've been there got the t shirt. If it was that then that is not an issue

    The trouble is that politicians are all viewed with about the same amount of opprobrium and mistrust. The politician is considered to be a liar before they have opened their mouth and everything they do or say is questioned. Were Starmer's tears crocodile or real.... I have no idea.

    Its only if they were not real that this interview will come back to haunt him....

    The story's here:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9608419/Keir-Starmer-breaks-tears-Piers-Morgans-TV-show.html

    Seems unlikely to have been fake grief, don't you think? Politicians are human too, and if he isn't upset by the things described then he would be remarkably cold-blooded. Doesn't mean anything politically, or shouldn't, but I think in itself it's fair enough.
    I doubt it’s fake but the whole excercise smacks of desperation.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,149
    edited May 2021

    Curious report in the Guardian that omits (by orders of magnitude) the most populous country in SE Asia:

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/24/south-east-asian-countries-battle-covid-resurgence-amid-lack-of-vaccines

    The real reason that Thailand haven't vaccinated is corruption (no surprise to those of us on the inside). For months there has been a massive squabble about who is getting the vaccine contract because they know it is worth mega $$$.

    The Guardian won't of course report this. It reminds me of that wonderful comment by John Sentamu: the ultimate white liberal's worst nightmare is telling a black person they're wrong :smiley:
    Interesting that AZ vaccine manufacturer in Thailand is scheduled to deliver their first batch in June.
    https://www.astrazeneca.com/country-sites/thailand/press-relaese/thai20210428.html#:~:text=Bangkok, 28 April 2021 – AstraZeneca's,in June of this year.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2021

    I tend to agree with the hypothesis that there are two kinds of voters, those betrayed by Johnson, and those who have been betrayed but don’t realise it yet.

    The problem (for people like me who prize good governance and accountability), is that it could be a long time before the electorate finally turn against Johnson.

    My one confident prediction is that when they do, Johnson’s name and reputation will be utterly toxic.

    I want to return to the non-story of the Daylesford Organic food deliveries, which were apparently provided “at cost”, but for which Johnson claims he paid personally.

    The bill amounts to nearly £800 *per week* for a family of 2.5, and Daylesford does not do nappies and baby food.

    How is that even possible?
    Full price Daylesford is expensive, but not THAT expensive, and remember this was “at cost”.

    Boris strikes me as someone who is very generous in a James VI sort of way.

    Maybe he's providing food for close working colleagues as they are working long hours. Perhaps he dreads a quiet dinner table and is always inviting people to share a meal and drinks.
    They’re hampers filled with a special diet to aid his recovery from Covid, so they say. £200 a pop. I don’t think that is all that much for an old Etonian who is PM. And he got 33% off

    We’ll be expecting him to get his suits from Burtons next
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Charles said:

    The reality is Iran was using her as a pawn. She was not going to be released u til every ounce of value has been extracted. Boris’s comments were used as an excuse rather than influencing the outcome

    Having an easy excuse influenced the outcome
    The only thing any politician could have said to change her status was "We will pay you the billions you think we owe you."

    She was staying put until they got their way. And she was deliberately chosen for ransom because the regime was banking on people like you saying "Oh, but she has a little girl..."
    And 'people like you' will apparently excuse anything from Johnson.
    Oh, not anything. I think he has been very weak in implementing a green strategy that gives jobs to this country - instead, they have gone to China, France, Denmark, Sweden and Germany.

    But I seem to have a better understanding of international negotiating than the hand-wringing tendency.
    I thought the Teeside Freeport was designed around windmill blade manufacturing?
    Turbines and structure still imported.

    As are virtually all solar panels.
    Solar thermal is made in the U.K.

    Blades are also made here and plenty of Opportunity to bring to the U.K. other parts manufacture in the product range.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic:

    The 1% leads were very obviously - as some of us pointed out at the time - a temporary suppressive effect due to the daily saturation coverage in the media treating Boris as a serial killer for getting some wallpaper. Then the coverage eased off in the days before the election, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and it was the Tories winning Hartlepool by almost 7000 votes and taking hundreds of council seats, while Starmer was left with the worst local election results for a new LOTO in 40 years and his leadership imploding.

    The exact same thing happened a few days before the GE with Phonegate - a firestorm over some other petty bullshit, namely Boris refusing to look at a phone and then putting it in his pocket. The result was that the final YouGov MRP tanked to show a majority of only 28, causing much glee to those who imagined they'd managed to get Boris at last. A few days later, the coverage was forgotten, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and Boris won an 80-seat majority and the highest share of the vote in 40 years.

    It's almost as if a pattern is starting to emerge, but what could it possibly be... :wink:

    All good points but let's not forget that you are comfortable with a lying PM. Others not so much.
    Ah, but the 'lying' PM just achieved the highest polling lead - outlier or not - for any government that has been in power for this long a period in living memory. Even @ydoethur - to whom I'm happy to defer on modern history - could produce only a 17-point lead to match it: John Major, a year before he won the largest number of votes in British electoral history. Any guesses for who holds the current number 2 record?

    Clearly enough people have no absolutist moral attachment to Truth as if it were a Platonic Form, but take people and politicians as they find them, and simply like what they like...
    Don't disagree either. What a shame though. Plus there's lying, there's failure to adhere to a political promise, and then there's being a completely immoral lying solipsistic twat and rubbing the fans', your faces in it.
    If all this is true about Boris then Labour in particular have the perfect opportunity to cleanse the stables with their: Honesty, Better Policies, Truth, Consistency, Competence, Top Marks for Transparency, A Front Bench of Attlees and Roy Jenkinses, A Scheme For Dealing with Deficit and Paying Off the Debt.

    What can Diane Abbott, Richard Burgon and Laura Pidcock be waiting for? Why on earth are they not already at 60% in the polls?

    Boris makes people feel much better than that lot.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2021

    The curious thing about the polls in recent months is how rapidly they have swung one way and then another. My theory is that's related to the marmite nature of the PM. It's impossible to be neutral on him.

    That means that if everything is going well, he is triumphant, but also that his support melts away like the snow in... erm... late May when things go badly.

    So to bet on the next election is mostly to bet on where we are in the love-hate cycle in a few years time. And whilst regaining control of the election date will help him a lot there, it's not foolproof.

    And there is still the Max Hastings theory- everyone who has dealings with the Bozza regrets it in the end. It's just that some people haven't regretted it yet. Eventually the gap between his ability to tell stories and to deliver on them gets too big to ignore. (See fishermen, unionists, farmers...)

    If that's the case then why has approval of Boris and the Tory share been remarkably consistent? The Tories have long polled consistently within Margin of Error of 42% and the gross approval ratings for Boris have been remarkably flat around there too.

    Keir on the other hand has seen his ratings drop off - and "don't knows" become "disapproves".
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    There is one particular commentator on here, who I won’t name, who does indeed seem to love sticking it to non-Johnsonians.

    He puts me in mind of a playground bully.

    I was one of these and, believe me, he couldn't cut it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic:

    The 1% leads were very obviously - as some of us pointed out at the time - a temporary suppressive effect due to the daily saturation coverage in the media treating Boris as a serial killer for getting some wallpaper. Then the coverage eased off in the days before the election, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and it was the Tories winning Hartlepool by almost 7000 votes and taking hundreds of council seats, while Starmer was left with the worst local election results for a new LOTO in 40 years and his leadership imploding.

    The exact same thing happened a few days before the GE with Phonegate - a firestorm over some other petty bullshit, namely Boris refusing to look at a phone and then putting it in his pocket. The result was that the final YouGov MRP tanked to show a majority of only 28, causing much glee to those who imagined they'd managed to get Boris at last. A few days later, the coverage was forgotten, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and Boris won an 80-seat majority and the highest share of the vote in 40 years.

    It's almost as if a pattern is starting to emerge, but what could it possibly be... :wink:

    All good points but let's not forget that you are comfortable with a lying PM. Others not so much.
    Ah, but the 'lying' PM just achieved the highest polling lead - outlier or not - for any government that has been in power for this long a period in living memory. Even @ydoethur - to whom I'm happy to defer on modern history - could produce only a 17-point lead to match it: John Major, a year before he won the largest number of votes in British electoral history. Any guesses for who holds the current number 2 record?

    Clearly enough people have no absolutist moral attachment to Truth as if it were a Platonic Form, but take people and politicians as they find them, and simply like what they like...
    Don't disagree either. What a shame though. Plus there's lying, there's failure to adhere to a political promise, and then there's being a completely immoral lying solipsistic twat and rubbing the fans', your faces in it.
    It won "Bliar" three consecutive general elections.

    Boris is on one. Do you think he'll match "Bliar's" three election victories?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,793

    The curious thing about the polls in recent months is how rapidly they have swung one way and then another. My theory is that's related to the marmite nature of the PM. It's impossible to be neutral on him.

    That means that if everything is going well, he is triumphant, but also that his support melts away like the snow in... erm... late May when things go badly.

    So to bet on the next election is mostly to bet on where we are in the love-hate cycle in a few years time. And whilst regaining control of the election date will help him a lot there, it's not foolproof.

    And there is still the Max Hastings theory- everyone who has dealings with the Bozza regrets it in the end. It's just that some people haven't regretted it yet. Eventually the gap between his ability to tell stories and to deliver on them gets too big to ignore. (See fishermen, unionists, farmers...)

    If that's the case then why has approval of Boris and the Tory share been remarkably consistent? The Tories have long polled consistently within Margin of Error of 42% and the gross approval ratings for Boris have been remarkably flat around there too.

    Keir on the other hand has seen his ratings drop off - and "don't knows" become "disapproves".
    Because most people aren't fishermen, unionists or farmers.

    Note that this feature isn't unique to Boris. All PMs - and indeed LOTOs - start as blank canvasses onto which people project their own hopes; all PMs and LOTOs gradually disappoint people over time. The trick is to disappoint people at a slower rate than your counterpart in the opposing party. At the moment, Kier appears to be disappointing people faster than Boris. This may simply reflect that he was the blankest of blank canvasses to start with and there was a lot of projection of individual hopes - with Boris people already knew him pretty well by the time he arrived.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    We're catching up with the USA on fully vaccinated. Around 5% behind.

    There's definitely been a pretty big pick up in the second dose rate here and a small slowdown in the US as many areas approach demand satisfaction. I think we'll set the single day record this week for total numbers and possibly even the weekly record this week and then again next week as the government tries to get through as many second doses in groups 1-9 as possible before 7th of June.
    The average 2 dose gap is now 75 days (Down from 77 a few days ago), so there is a new push to get people fully vaxxed now I think.
    The Indian variant doesn't give Gov't the luxury of time it previously had bearing in mind immunological lag.
    My local village pharmacy was doing AZ jabs in March and early April. They stopped then as they did not have enough supplies before opening again earlier this month. They put out a message on our village FB page to say that anyone who had had their jab 8 weeks ago should call them to arrange an immediate 2nd jab. My wife had her jab at the end of March. She called this morning and has her 2nd jab at lunchtime today. If that is replicated then that will be rapidly bringing down the gap.

    I believe because they will be giving Moderna and Pfizer to the younger cohorts that they are using their supplies of AZ to get through all the older 2nd jabs very quickly.

    My first AZ jab was on 27th April. I fully expect to have my second well before the end of June. I think it is very likely all 18+ will have had one jab by the end of June too. Puts us in a good position to get the secondary school kids done before they go back in the Autumn.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Cookie said:

    Note that this feature isn't unique to Boris. All PMs - and indeed LOTOs - start as blank canvasses onto which people project their own hopes; all PMs and LOTOs gradually disappoint people over time. The trick is to disappoint people at a slower rate than your counterpart in the opposing party. At the moment, Kier appears to be disappointing people faster than Boris. This may simply reflect that he was the blankest of blank canvasses to start with and there was a lot of projection of individual hopes - with Boris people already knew him pretty well by the time he arrived.

    It probably also reflects that as LoTO there is a lot less he can actually do than the PM

    Although he doesn't even seem to be doing those things well
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    With hindsight that picture of Sir Keir in his office bending the knee was the deathknell

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11822873/labour-leader-keir-starmer-takes-a-knee-george-floyd/

    Two others: the photo of him staring at wallpaper, and the video of him being manhandled out of a pub in Bath.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Flightradar24 @flightradar24
    We haven't seen any official airline announcements but it looks like some airlines are avoiding Belarus airspace.


  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic:

    The 1% leads were very obviously - as some of us pointed out at the time - a temporary suppressive effect due to the daily saturation coverage in the media treating Boris as a serial killer for getting some wallpaper. Then the coverage eased off in the days before the election, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and it was the Tories winning Hartlepool by almost 7000 votes and taking hundreds of council seats, while Starmer was left with the worst local election results for a new LOTO in 40 years and his leadership imploding.

    The exact same thing happened a few days before the GE with Phonegate - a firestorm over some other petty bullshit, namely Boris refusing to look at a phone and then putting it in his pocket. The result was that the final YouGov MRP tanked to show a majority of only 28, causing much glee to those who imagined they'd managed to get Boris at last. A few days later, the coverage was forgotten, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and Boris won an 80-seat majority and the highest share of the vote in 40 years.

    It's almost as if a pattern is starting to emerge, but what could it possibly be... :wink:

    All good points but let's not forget that you are comfortable with a lying PM. Others not so much.
    Ah, but the 'lying' PM just achieved the highest polling lead - outlier or not - for any government that has been in power for this long a period in living memory. Even @ydoethur - to whom I'm happy to defer on modern history - could produce only a 17-point lead to match it: John Major, a year before he won the largest number of votes in British electoral history. Any guesses for who holds the current number 2 record?

    Clearly enough people have no absolutist moral attachment to Truth as if it were a Platonic Form, but take people and politicians as they find them, and simply like what they like...
    Don't disagree either. What a shame though. Plus there's lying, there's failure to adhere to a political promise, and then there's being a completely immoral lying solipsistic twat and rubbing the fans', your faces in it.
    If all this is true about Boris then Labour in particular have the perfect opportunity to cleanse the stables with their: Honesty, Better Policies, Truth, Consistency, Competence, Top Marks for Transparency, A Front Bench of Attlees and Roy Jenkinses, A Scheme For Dealing with Deficit and Paying Off the Debt.

    What can Diane Abbott, Richard Burgon and Laura Pidcock be waiting for? Why on earth are they not already at 60% in the polls?

    In my view anyone who has the UK's interest at heart will support Starmer, and not necessarily because he's that good.

    I thought the same about Hillary Clinton. Nothing about Trump's presidency changed my mind.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cookie said:

    The curious thing about the polls in recent months is how rapidly they have swung one way and then another. My theory is that's related to the marmite nature of the PM. It's impossible to be neutral on him.

    That means that if everything is going well, he is triumphant, but also that his support melts away like the snow in... erm... late May when things go badly.

    So to bet on the next election is mostly to bet on where we are in the love-hate cycle in a few years time. And whilst regaining control of the election date will help him a lot there, it's not foolproof.

    And there is still the Max Hastings theory- everyone who has dealings with the Bozza regrets it in the end. It's just that some people haven't regretted it yet. Eventually the gap between his ability to tell stories and to deliver on them gets too big to ignore. (See fishermen, unionists, farmers...)

    If that's the case then why has approval of Boris and the Tory share been remarkably consistent? The Tories have long polled consistently within Margin of Error of 42% and the gross approval ratings for Boris have been remarkably flat around there too.

    Keir on the other hand has seen his ratings drop off - and "don't knows" become "disapproves".
    Because most people aren't fishermen, unionists or farmers.

    Note that this feature isn't unique to Boris. All PMs - and indeed LOTOs - start as blank canvasses onto which people project their own hopes; all PMs and LOTOs gradually disappoint people over time. The trick is to disappoint people at a slower rate than your counterpart in the opposing party. At the moment, Kier appears to be disappointing people faster than Boris. This may simply reflect that he was the blankest of blank canvasses to start with and there was a lot of projection of individual hopes - with Boris people already knew him pretty well by the time he arrived.
    Indeed that's the theory, and listen to people here and you'd think Boris would be worse than normal PMs for that, but lets compare Boris's final 2019 approval ratings just before he won an 80 seat majority versus today's midterm approval ratings.

    2019 YouGov 41%
    2021 YouGov 48%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 7%

    2019 Opinium 33%
    2021 Opinium 43%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 10%

    2019 Ipsos MORI 36%
    2021 Ipsos MORI 44%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 8%

    2019 Panelbase 36%
    2021 Panelbase 41%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 5%

    Rather consistent picture. If he's falling, he's falling upwards.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723



    I don't know what he cried about. I understand grieving because I've been there got the t shirt. If it was that then that is not an issue

    The trouble is that politicians are all viewed with about the same amount of opprobrium and mistrust. The politician is considered to be a liar before they have opened their mouth and everything they do or say is questioned. Were Starmer's tears crocodile or real.... I have no idea.

    Its only if they were not real that this interview will come back to haunt him....

    The story's here:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9608419/Keir-Starmer-breaks-tears-Piers-Morgans-TV-show.html

    Seems unlikely to have been fake grief, don't you think? Politicians are human too, and if he isn't upset by the things described then he would be remarkably cold-blooded. Doesn't mean anything politically, or shouldn't, but I think in itself it's fair enough.
    I agree .
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    I tend to agree with the hypothesis that there are two kinds of voters, those betrayed by Johnson, and those who have been betrayed but don’t realise it yet.

    The problem (for people like me who prize good governance and accountability), is that it could be a long time before the electorate finally turn against Johnson.

    My one confident prediction is that when they do, Johnson’s name and reputation will be utterly toxic.

    I want to return to the non-story of the Daylesford Organic food deliveries, which were apparently provided “at cost”, but for which Johnson claims he paid personally.

    The bill amounts to nearly £800 *per week* for a family of 2.5, and Daylesford does not do nappies and baby food.

    How is that even possible?
    Full price Daylesford is expensive, but not THAT expensive, and remember this was “at cost”.

    Boris strikes me as someone who is very generous in a James VI sort of way.

    Maybe he's providing food for close working colleagues as they are working long hours. Perhaps he dreads a quiet dinner table and is always inviting people to share a meal and drinks.
    So we’ve managed to move on from taxpayers not paying for his wallpaper, to taxpayers not paying for his dinner.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Nunu3 said:

    Does anyone know how we can find out ward level results for the London Mayoral results?

    It seems Bailey did really well in some outlet london wards that have been strongly Labour in recent years. Including my own.

    There are some interesting maps on here:

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/13676/london?page=89
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    What are people who don't have much money supposed to do?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    BBC News - Sasha Johnson: Black Lives Matter activist critical after shooting, party says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57223755

    Why are the media leading with this "threats against her", when the police is its nonsense and a close friends say no she was at a party and was gang fight.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,278
    edited May 2021
    Just had to go and pick up a specimen bottle for my mother at our GP surgery. Totally empty and deserted. No one in the patient car park (plenty of cars in the staff car park) not a single person in the waiting area other than two receptionists.

    They have more staff than patients lol!

    Yet cinemas, restaurants and pubs are all open. Absolutely crazy!
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Cookie said:

    The curious thing about the polls in recent months is how rapidly they have swung one way and then another. My theory is that's related to the marmite nature of the PM. It's impossible to be neutral on him.

    That means that if everything is going well, he is triumphant, but also that his support melts away like the snow in... erm... late May when things go badly.

    So to bet on the next election is mostly to bet on where we are in the love-hate cycle in a few years time. And whilst regaining control of the election date will help him a lot there, it's not foolproof.

    And there is still the Max Hastings theory- everyone who has dealings with the Bozza regrets it in the end. It's just that some people haven't regretted it yet. Eventually the gap between his ability to tell stories and to deliver on them gets too big to ignore. (See fishermen, unionists, farmers...)

    If that's the case then why has approval of Boris and the Tory share been remarkably consistent? The Tories have long polled consistently within Margin of Error of 42% and the gross approval ratings for Boris have been remarkably flat around there too.

    Keir on the other hand has seen his ratings drop off - and "don't knows" become "disapproves".
    Because most people aren't fishermen, unionists or farmers.

    Note that this feature isn't unique to Boris. All PMs - and indeed LOTOs - start as blank canvasses onto which people project their own hopes; all PMs and LOTOs gradually disappoint people over time. The trick is to disappoint people at a slower rate than your counterpart in the opposing party. At the moment, Kier appears to be disappointing people faster than Boris. This may simply reflect that he was the blankest of blank canvasses to start with and there was a lot of projection of individual hopes - with Boris people already knew him pretty well by the time he arrived.
    Indeed that's the theory, and listen to people here and you'd think Boris would be worse than normal PMs for that, but lets compare Boris's final 2019 approval ratings just before he won an 80 seat majority versus today's midterm approval ratings.

    2019 YouGov 41%
    2021 YouGov 48%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 7%

    2019 Opinium 33%
    2021 Opinium 43%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 10%

    2019 Ipsos MORI 36%
    2021 Ipsos MORI 44%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 8%

    2019 Panelbase 36%
    2021 Panelbase 41%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 5%

    Rather consistent picture. If he's falling, he's falling upwards.
    Brilliant. Boris has turned out to be a massive undisappointment...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    BBC News - Sasha Johnson: Black Lives Matter activist critical after shooting, party says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57223755

    Why are the media leading with this "threats against her", when the police is its nonsense and a close friends say no she was at a party and was gang fight.

    Hope she recovers and the shooter is caught but the media reporting is atrocious.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,278
    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Boris heading for a Poll Tax moment?
  • Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Gobshites
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    AlistairM said:

    Flightradar24 @flightradar24
    We haven't seen any official airline announcements but it looks like some airlines are avoiding Belarus airspace.


    Presumably Aeroflot is still, er, bombproof.....
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    Cookie said:

    The curious thing about the polls in recent months is how rapidly they have swung one way and then another. My theory is that's related to the marmite nature of the PM. It's impossible to be neutral on him.

    That means that if everything is going well, he is triumphant, but also that his support melts away like the snow in... erm... late May when things go badly.

    So to bet on the next election is mostly to bet on where we are in the love-hate cycle in a few years time. And whilst regaining control of the election date will help him a lot there, it's not foolproof.

    And there is still the Max Hastings theory- everyone who has dealings with the Bozza regrets it in the end. It's just that some people haven't regretted it yet. Eventually the gap between his ability to tell stories and to deliver on them gets too big to ignore. (See fishermen, unionists, farmers...)

    If that's the case then why has approval of Boris and the Tory share been remarkably consistent? The Tories have long polled consistently within Margin of Error of 42% and the gross approval ratings for Boris have been remarkably flat around there too.

    Keir on the other hand has seen his ratings drop off - and "don't knows" become "disapproves".
    Because most people aren't fishermen, unionists or farmers.

    Note that this feature isn't unique to Boris. All PMs - and indeed LOTOs - start as blank canvasses onto which people project their own hopes; all PMs and LOTOs gradually disappoint people over time. The trick is to disappoint people at a slower rate than your counterpart in the opposing party. At the moment, Kier appears to be disappointing people faster than Boris. This may simply reflect that he was the blankest of blank canvasses to start with and there was a lot of projection of individual hopes - with Boris people already knew him pretty well by the time he arrived.
    Indeed that's the theory, and listen to people here and you'd think Boris would be worse than normal PMs for that, but lets compare Boris's final 2019 approval ratings just before he won an 80 seat majority versus today's midterm approval ratings.

    2019 YouGov 41%
    2021 YouGov 48%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 7%

    2019 Opinium 33%
    2021 Opinium 43%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 10%

    2019 Ipsos MORI 36%
    2021 Ipsos MORI 44%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 8%

    2019 Panelbase 36%
    2021 Panelbase 41%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 5%

    Rather consistent picture. If he's falling, he's falling upwards.
    I think we’ve forgotten what it’s like to have a PM who’s actually quite popular. May was for a bit, but then.... Cameron was never really massively liked. Brown was respected, then... You have to go back to Blair and before him, very early Major.

    Major is the one that should give the left hope. He was liked to start with, but once he lost control of events it all fell away. The trouble is that with a majority of 80, you don’t have to lose control of events.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Tyrannical regimes like Belarus know the EU is soft on actually doing anything. They're good at talking, but would never take action.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Boris heading for a Poll Tax moment?
    If so, well deserved. This is a terrible plan.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,278

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Boris heading for a Poll Tax moment?
    If so, well deserved. This is a terrible plan.
    Yeah people will just say can't pay, won't pay. And what's HMG going to do? They can't pursue millions of people as they found out during the Poll Tax.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    GIN1138 said:

    Just had to go and pick up a specimen bottle for my mother at our GP surgery. Totally empty and deserted. No one in the patient car park (plenty of cars in the staff car park) not a single person in the waiting area other than two receptionists.

    They have more staff than patients lol!

    Yet cinemas, restaurants and pubs are all open. Absolutely crazy!

    I would hope it was. I wouldn't want a full specimen bottle. I know, I'm being silly.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    If so, well deserved. This is a terrible plan.

    It's a brilliant plan, if you are the sort of person that gets someone else to pay for your heating. And food. And wallpaper...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    The UK's energy regulator has approved plans to invest £300m in low carbon projects including support for 3,550 charging points for electric vehicles.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Pulpstar said:

    Lol - in Scotland 18-29 year olds can now book a vaccination online, but if you're 30 or over you need to wait for your letter in the post !!
    https://register.vacs.nhs.scot/

    Ridiculous. I wonder whose decision this was.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Cookie said:

    The curious thing about the polls in recent months is how rapidly they have swung one way and then another. My theory is that's related to the marmite nature of the PM. It's impossible to be neutral on him.

    That means that if everything is going well, he is triumphant, but also that his support melts away like the snow in... erm... late May when things go badly.

    So to bet on the next election is mostly to bet on where we are in the love-hate cycle in a few years time. And whilst regaining control of the election date will help him a lot there, it's not foolproof.

    And there is still the Max Hastings theory- everyone who has dealings with the Bozza regrets it in the end. It's just that some people haven't regretted it yet. Eventually the gap between his ability to tell stories and to deliver on them gets too big to ignore. (See fishermen, unionists, farmers...)

    If that's the case then why has approval of Boris and the Tory share been remarkably consistent? The Tories have long polled consistently within Margin of Error of 42% and the gross approval ratings for Boris have been remarkably flat around there too.

    Keir on the other hand has seen his ratings drop off - and "don't knows" become "disapproves".
    Because most people aren't fishermen, unionists or farmers.

    Note that this feature isn't unique to Boris. All PMs - and indeed LOTOs - start as blank canvasses onto which people project their own hopes; all PMs and LOTOs gradually disappoint people over time. The trick is to disappoint people at a slower rate than your counterpart in the opposing party. At the moment, Kier appears to be disappointing people faster than Boris. This may simply reflect that he was the blankest of blank canvasses to start with and there was a lot of projection of individual hopes - with Boris people already knew him pretty well by the time he arrived.
    Indeed that's the theory, and listen to people here and you'd think Boris would be worse than normal PMs for that, but lets compare Boris's final 2019 approval ratings just before he won an 80 seat majority versus today's midterm approval ratings.

    2019 YouGov 41%
    2021 YouGov 48%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 7%

    2019 Opinium 33%
    2021 Opinium 43%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 10%

    2019 Ipsos MORI 36%
    2021 Ipsos MORI 44%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 8%

    2019 Panelbase 36%
    2021 Panelbase 41%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 5%

    Rather consistent picture. If he's falling, he's falling upwards.
    I think we’ve forgotten what it’s like to have a PM who’s actually quite popular. May was for a bit, but then.... Cameron was never really massively liked. Brown was respected, then... You have to go back to Blair and before him, very early Major.

    Major is the one that should give the left hope. He was liked to start with, but once he lost control of events it all fell away. The trouble is that with a majority of 80, you don’t have to lose control of events.
    It baffles me that people who look at polls a lot try to argue that Boris isn’t popular. I am not naturally a massive fan of him really, but constantly having to argue that he will swat Sir Keir away has made me take his side more than I’d have expected I guess.

    I blame the optical illusion of net ratings - they made Sir Keir look more popular at the start than he really was, and so have accentuated his fall in popularity


    From March 17th

    “ in the latest Opinium Leadership Ratings, 37% of respondents didn't have a view on him one way or the other. This should depress Labour supporters, but the optical illusion of net ratings turns indifference into a positive, and makes the blanket comforting, not wet. It means Boris leads by just two point in terms of net satisfaction (45-38 playing Sir Keir's 34-29) - all to play for, "especially after he's just had the vaccine bounce!" cry Starmer's cheerleaders.

    Well, no.

    The smoke and mirrors of Net Ratings make this seems a close race, and Sir Keir still has 38% of the public to win over! But remember that only 70% of those with the vote use it, and the mist clears - the divisiveness of Boris Johnson is an asset, the blandness of Sir Keir a drag. Divide the Gross Positives by 70 and Boris is 15 points clear - the Don't Know's/Don't Care's don't vote; you want as few of them as possible.”


    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-optical-illusion-of-net-ratings.html?m=1
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited May 2021
    GIN1138 said:

    Just had to go and pick up a specimen bottle for my mother at our GP surgery. Totally empty and deserted. No one in the patient car park (plenty of cars in the staff car park) not a single person in the waiting area other than two receptionists.

    They have more staff than patients lol!

    Yet cinemas, restaurants and pubs are all open. Absolutely crazy!

    I'm not sure whether your point is that it's surprising more people aren't using the surgery, or that the surgery isn't fully open yet to patients.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    What are people who don't have much money supposed to do?
    The impact of various green initiatives which are based on magical thinking have the capacity to utterly destroy the governing party except that the main opposition parties have positioned themselves as more green. I also think that pragmatism will start to reassert itself. Johnston is weak so will be between a rock (reality) and a hard place (eco credentials and Carrie).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited May 2021
    g
    Pulpstar said:

    Lol - in Scotland 18-29 year olds can now book a vaccination online, but if you're 30 or over you need to wait for your letter in the post !!
    https://register.vacs.nhs.scot/

    There's been a change of policy of late in my experience - much more of a push, my 2nd jab came rather earlier than expected (not complaining ...).

    I think what has happened is that the 30 and above have all had bookings allocated and are being notified of them, and the youngsters are invited to fill in the gaps ad libitum. Edit: That wat the SG would still manage to be fairly thorough within each age group, as has been their policy generally.
  • Cookie said:

    The curious thing about the polls in recent months is how rapidly they have swung one way and then another. My theory is that's related to the marmite nature of the PM. It's impossible to be neutral on him.

    That means that if everything is going well, he is triumphant, but also that his support melts away like the snow in... erm... late May when things go badly.

    So to bet on the next election is mostly to bet on where we are in the love-hate cycle in a few years time. And whilst regaining control of the election date will help him a lot there, it's not foolproof.

    And there is still the Max Hastings theory- everyone who has dealings with the Bozza regrets it in the end. It's just that some people haven't regretted it yet. Eventually the gap between his ability to tell stories and to deliver on them gets too big to ignore. (See fishermen, unionists, farmers...)

    If that's the case then why has approval of Boris and the Tory share been remarkably consistent? The Tories have long polled consistently within Margin of Error of 42% and the gross approval ratings for Boris have been remarkably flat around there too.

    Keir on the other hand has seen his ratings drop off - and "don't knows" become "disapproves".
    Because most people aren't fishermen, unionists or farmers.

    Note that this feature isn't unique to Boris. All PMs - and indeed LOTOs - start as blank canvasses onto which people project their own hopes; all PMs and LOTOs gradually disappoint people over time. The trick is to disappoint people at a slower rate than your counterpart in the opposing party. At the moment, Kier appears to be disappointing people faster than Boris. This may simply reflect that he was the blankest of blank canvasses to start with and there was a lot of projection of individual hopes - with Boris people already knew him pretty well by the time he arrived.
    Indeed that's the theory, and listen to people here and you'd think Boris would be worse than normal PMs for that, but lets compare Boris's final 2019 approval ratings just before he won an 80 seat majority versus today's midterm approval ratings.

    2019 YouGov 41%
    2021 YouGov 48%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 7%

    2019 Opinium 33%
    2021 Opinium 43%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 10%

    2019 Ipsos MORI 36%
    2021 Ipsos MORI 44%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 8%

    2019 Panelbase 36%
    2021 Panelbase 41%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 5%

    Rather consistent picture. If he's falling, he's falling upwards.
    I think we’ve forgotten what it’s like to have a PM who’s actually quite popular. May was for a bit, but then.... Cameron was never really massively liked. Brown was respected, then... You have to go back to Blair and before him, very early Major.

    Major is the one that should give the left hope. He was liked to start with, but once he lost control of events it all fell away. The trouble is that with a majority of 80, you don’t have to lose control of events.
    I think Brown was such a disappointment. All those (myself included) who thought Blair was dreadful at least hoped Brown would be the sort of Labour leader we could get behind but he was not. The Gillian Duffy moment sealed it for many people.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    .
    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Hope that’s just bad reporting, and government aren’t going to be so silly as to mandate replacement of working equipment?
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    AlistairM said:

    Flightradar24 @flightradar24
    We haven't seen any official airline announcements but it looks like some airlines are avoiding Belarus airspace.


    On the other hand, RyanAir are still taking the cheapest route possible...

    Carl Bildt @carlbildt
    It’s slightly insane, but @RyanairPress is flying through Belarus airspace as we speak. What are they thinking? There are also question marks on how they handled yesterday.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Andy_JS said:

    With hindsight that picture of Sir Keir in his office bending the knee was the deathknell

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11822873/labour-leader-keir-starmer-takes-a-knee-george-floyd/

    Two others: the photo of him staring at wallpaper, and the video of him being manhandled out of a pub in Bath.
    Don't forget him "boxing" - oh dear oh dear
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,278
    edited May 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Just had to go and pick up a specimen bottle for my mother at our GP surgery. Totally empty and deserted. No one in the patient car park (plenty of cars in the staff car park) not a single person in the waiting area other than two receptionists.

    They have more staff than patients lol!

    Yet cinemas, restaurants and pubs are all open. Absolutely crazy!

    I'm not sure whether your point is that it's surprising more people aren't using the surgery, or that the surgery isn't fully open yet to patients.
    That the GP surgery isn't fully open (in fact from what I saw they aren't "open" at all) - Not surprised though. It's typical for GPs lets face it.

    Minimum work for maximum money. Kerching. Kerching. ;)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    alex_ said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Floater said:

    Ryanair statement - one tiny little detail appears to be missing

    https://twitter.com/RyanairPress/status/1396543331878981632/photo/1

    That is shockingly bad. What incentive is there for Ryanair to play this down?

    Would the Russians, sorry, Belarusians actually have shot the plane down if it had kept flying to Vilnius? Surely not. Although it would have been a brave call for the pilot to make.

    The pilot was instructed by ATC to fly to Minsk. Protocol is you follow instructions
    Especially when there’s a fast jet off your wing with missiles loaded!

    As much as I love to rag on Ryanair, no blame on the airline nor pilots here. They followed instructions and did everything right.
    They didn't really have a choice.
    Everyone knows the odds are the fighter jet is highly likely a bluff but everyone also knows the stakes are too high to call it.
    Why is it a bluff? Of course they'd splash it if it didn't comply.

    The Belarussians were probably hoping it did come to that as that would have been a neater solution and the non-compliance would have given a shred of cover to the bomb/terrorist bullshit cover story.
    Create a fake bomb threat to force a plane to land and shoot it down if it didn’t. Not obviously an outcome they would have been desirous of I would have thought?

    That they had four of their KGB on board wouldn’t have been ideal either.
    ‘Heroes of the Motherland, outnumbered but bravely struggling with twelve heavily armed terrorists wearing suicide belts, they knew that they had to make the ultimate sacrifice. If they were here today they would embrace their comrade who had to take the painful decision to stick a brace of air-to-air missiles up the 737’s ass..’

    Extract from state funeral peroration when they buried the couple of tins of KGB gloop left in this scenario.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255
    Andy_JS said:

    Tyrannical regimes like Belarus know the EU is soft on actually doing anything. They're good at talking, but would never take action.

    Particularly with the East Politics grouping in Germany - which consistently argues for a "we need to talk" approach to Russia and it's friends. And given Germany's position in the EU.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    isam said:



    I don't know what he cried about. I understand grieving because I've been there got the t shirt. If it was that then that is not an issue

    The trouble is that politicians are all viewed with about the same amount of opprobrium and mistrust. The politician is considered to be a liar before they have opened their mouth and everything they do or say is questioned. Were Starmer's tears crocodile or real.... I have no idea.

    Its only if they were not real that this interview will come back to haunt him....

    The story's here:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9608419/Keir-Starmer-breaks-tears-Piers-Morgans-TV-show.html

    Seems unlikely to have been fake grief, don't you think? Politicians are human too, and if he isn't upset by the things described then he would be remarkably cold-blooded. Doesn't mean anything politically, or shouldn't, but I think in itself it's fair enough.
    Almost certainly not fake grief.

    But when we are tiptoeing out of the worst health crisis in living memory, where tens of thousands have died, when we’ve been locked up for over a year, and the weather is shit, why does he think it’s a good idea to go on tv and cry about family bereavements? People want cheering up, a ray of sunshine, optimism. He already has the image of an earnest but boring, dull suit, why make it worse by associating with misery? The relaunch should have been sunny and bright
    It is not fake grief, but it is the impression that he agreed to the interview as a PR promotion and it just is not a good look and much as you describe it
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Another Starmer U turn incoming

    https://order-order.com/2021/05/24/labour-reverses-position-on-corporation-tax-hike/

    At least he is good at hand brake turns
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    Cookie said:

    The curious thing about the polls in recent months is how rapidly they have swung one way and then another. My theory is that's related to the marmite nature of the PM. It's impossible to be neutral on him.

    That means that if everything is going well, he is triumphant, but also that his support melts away like the snow in... erm... late May when things go badly.

    So to bet on the next election is mostly to bet on where we are in the love-hate cycle in a few years time. And whilst regaining control of the election date will help him a lot there, it's not foolproof.

    And there is still the Max Hastings theory- everyone who has dealings with the Bozza regrets it in the end. It's just that some people haven't regretted it yet. Eventually the gap between his ability to tell stories and to deliver on them gets too big to ignore. (See fishermen, unionists, farmers...)

    If that's the case then why has approval of Boris and the Tory share been remarkably consistent? The Tories have long polled consistently within Margin of Error of 42% and the gross approval ratings for Boris have been remarkably flat around there too.

    Keir on the other hand has seen his ratings drop off - and "don't knows" become "disapproves".
    Because most people aren't fishermen, unionists or farmers.

    Note that this feature isn't unique to Boris. All PMs - and indeed LOTOs - start as blank canvasses onto which people project their own hopes; all PMs and LOTOs gradually disappoint people over time. The trick is to disappoint people at a slower rate than your counterpart in the opposing party. At the moment, Kier appears to be disappointing people faster than Boris. This may simply reflect that he was the blankest of blank canvasses to start with and there was a lot of projection of individual hopes - with Boris people already knew him pretty well by the time he arrived.
    Indeed that's the theory, and listen to people here and you'd think Boris would be worse than normal PMs for that, but lets compare Boris's final 2019 approval ratings just before he won an 80 seat majority versus today's midterm approval ratings.

    2019 YouGov 41%
    2021 YouGov 48%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 7%

    2019 Opinium 33%
    2021 Opinium 43%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 10%

    2019 Ipsos MORI 36%
    2021 Ipsos MORI 44%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 8%

    2019 Panelbase 36%
    2021 Panelbase 41%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 5%

    Rather consistent picture. If he's falling, he's falling upwards.
    I think we’ve forgotten what it’s like to have a PM who’s actually quite popular. May was for a bit, but then.... Cameron was never really massively liked. Brown was respected, then... You have to go back to Blair and before him, very early Major.

    Major is the one that should give the left hope. He was liked to start with, but once he lost control of events it all fell away. The trouble is that with a majority of 80, you don’t have to lose control of events.
    I think Brown was such a disappointment. All those (myself included) who thought Blair was dreadful at least hoped Brown would be the sort of Labour leader we could get behind but he was not. The Gillian Duffy moment sealed it for many people.

    Brown was a great example of a strong Cabinet Minister who is completely unsuited to being PM. Very few people have it in them, but all politicians think they do.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958

    Good morning

    On topic both the 1% and 18% polls do seem to be outliers but it is clear from the recent election results that the Conservatives are performing well and Labour not so

    Starmer's very public spat with Rayner, follows his miscalculation on taking the knee, wallpaper gate, and now the cringe worthy sight of him crying on TV.

    Add into the mix the increasing green vote, the loss of Scotland, and remember the conservatives had their best ever result for the Senedd, the outlook for Labour and Starmer are indeed bleak

    If he loses Batley and Spen after parachuting in their ideal candidate then I think that could see him go

    As far as the polls are concerned I think the realistic lead is probably between 8 - 10%

    "Cringeworthy" is rather unworthy of you, @BigG, about anyone weeping over family tragedy. I've never derided Norman Tebbit for his grief over what happened to his wife. People are entitled to be upset if asked about awful things that have happened to people threy care about, regardless of their opinions.
    I did not mean to cause an issue with my comment on his crying but it does give the impression he is seeking to gain sympathy and not an altogether good look
    Terrible when folk gain sympathy.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,793

    Cookie said:

    The curious thing about the polls in recent months is how rapidly they have swung one way and then another. My theory is that's related to the marmite nature of the PM. It's impossible to be neutral on him.

    That means that if everything is going well, he is triumphant, but also that his support melts away like the snow in... erm... late May when things go badly.

    So to bet on the next election is mostly to bet on where we are in the love-hate cycle in a few years time. And whilst regaining control of the election date will help him a lot there, it's not foolproof.

    And there is still the Max Hastings theory- everyone who has dealings with the Bozza regrets it in the end. It's just that some people haven't regretted it yet. Eventually the gap between his ability to tell stories and to deliver on them gets too big to ignore. (See fishermen, unionists, farmers...)

    If that's the case then why has approval of Boris and the Tory share been remarkably consistent? The Tories have long polled consistently within Margin of Error of 42% and the gross approval ratings for Boris have been remarkably flat around there too.

    Keir on the other hand has seen his ratings drop off - and "don't knows" become "disapproves".
    Because most people aren't fishermen, unionists or farmers.

    Note that this feature isn't unique to Boris. All PMs - and indeed LOTOs - start as blank canvasses onto which people project their own hopes; all PMs and LOTOs gradually disappoint people over time. The trick is to disappoint people at a slower rate than your counterpart in the opposing party. At the moment, Kier appears to be disappointing people faster than Boris. This may simply reflect that he was the blankest of blank canvasses to start with and there was a lot of projection of individual hopes - with Boris people already knew him pretty well by the time he arrived.
    Indeed that's the theory, and listen to people here and you'd think Boris would be worse than normal PMs for that, but lets compare Boris's final 2019 approval ratings just before he won an 80 seat majority versus today's midterm approval ratings.

    2019 YouGov 41%
    2021 YouGov 48%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 7%

    2019 Opinium 33%
    2021 Opinium 43%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 10%

    2019 Ipsos MORI 36%
    2021 Ipsos MORI 44%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 8%

    2019 Panelbase 36%
    2021 Panelbase 41%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 5%

    Rather consistent picture. If he's falling, he's falling upwards.
    Brilliant. Boris has turned out to be a massive undisappointment...
    Huh, fair enough. How to explain that? Back to the original theory: he's disappointing people - like unionists, fishermen and farmers BUT in Nov 2019 he had a big reservoir of people who were either sceptical or quite hostile to him, and now he's got a bit of governing under his belt and been shown to be nothing like as bad as his detractors forecast, some of the disapproval has faded away - indeed more of the disapproval has faded away than new disapproval has been accrued.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Floater said:

    Andy_JS said:

    With hindsight that picture of Sir Keir in his office bending the knee was the deathknell

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11822873/labour-leader-keir-starmer-takes-a-knee-george-floyd/

    Two others: the photo of him staring at wallpaper, and the video of him being manhandled out of a pub in Bath.
    Don't forget him "boxing" - oh dear oh dear
    Blimey I had forgotten the boxing. He has quite a long list of embarrassing cringe moments actually. Probably more than Ed Miliband

    And next up he’s doing a fly on the wall documentary... he’ll do well not to come across like David Brent, but I don’t fancy his chances
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Andy_JS said:

    Tyrannical regimes like Belarus know the EU is soft on actually doing anything. They're good at talking, but would never take action.

    Whose forces would they take action with?
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    isam said:

    Floater said:

    Andy_JS said:

    With hindsight that picture of Sir Keir in his office bending the knee was the deathknell

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11822873/labour-leader-keir-starmer-takes-a-knee-george-floyd/

    Two others: the photo of him staring at wallpaper, and the video of him being manhandled out of a pub in Bath.
    Don't forget him "boxing" - oh dear oh dear
    Blimey I had forgotten the boxing. He has quite a long list of embarrassing cringe moments actually. Probably more than Ed Miliband

    And next up he’s doing a fly on the wall documentary... he’ll do well not to come across like David Brent, but I don’t fancy his chances
    It’s not ideal to agree to do a fly on the wall documentary just as he’s odds on to lose another by-election and face a challenge at conference.

    I mean, it’ll be good telly to be fair.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    F1: I don't bother with preamble and aftermath nonsense (except the stuff I write, of course), but this radio messages at the end of Monaco video popped up on my suggested videos so I wasted a few minutes listening to it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G5E9qMOUrc

    Hamilton is absolutely silent in response to his sympathetic race engineer.

    The team did screw up on strategy, but he seriously underperformed in qualifying too. Unusual from him.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958

    BBC News - Sasha Johnson: Black Lives Matter activist critical after shooting, party says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57223755

    Why are the media leading with this "threats against her", when the police is its nonsense and a close friends say no she was at a party and was gang fight.

    Sounds like these lads will be really disappointed if this woman hasn't been shot by a racist culture warrior

    https://twitter.com/msolurin/status/1396556611305496579?s=20
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Sandpit said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Hope that’s just bad reporting, and government aren’t going to be so silly as to mandate replacement of working equipment?
    Let's say you didn't support having your gas boiler replaced. Not now. Maybe not ever.

    Who represents you? who would you vote for to protect you from this?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593

    mwadams said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I want to return to the non-story of the Daylesford Organic food deliveries, which were apparently provided “at cost”, but for which Johnson claims he paid personally.

    The bill amounts to nearly £800 *per week* for a family of 2.5, and Daylesford does not do nappies and baby food.

    How is that even possible?
    Full price Daylesford is expensive, but not THAT expensive, and remember this was “at cost”.

    https://twitter.com/Coldwar_Steve/status/1396748909616279558
    Blast through a magnum of their pink champagne every couple of days and it soon adds up.
    I challenge you to create a basket of goods worth £800 a week.
    That's easy.

    2 magnums of champagne and 250g of Exmoor Cornish Salted Caviar, and my grocery shop.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Andy_JS said:

    Tyrannical regimes like Belarus know the EU is soft on actually doing anything. They're good at talking, but would never take action.

    Whose forces would they take action with?
    Precisely.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    What are people who don't have much money supposed to do?
    Same question to you.

    If you do not agree with this policy, if you do not agree with net zero by 2050, who represents you?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic:

    The 1% leads were very obviously - as some of us pointed out at the time - a temporary suppressive effect due to the daily saturation coverage in the media treating Boris as a serial killer for getting some wallpaper. Then the coverage eased off in the days before the election, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and it was the Tories winning Hartlepool by almost 7000 votes and taking hundreds of council seats, while Starmer was left with the worst local election results for a new LOTO in 40 years and his leadership imploding.

    The exact same thing happened a few days before the GE with Phonegate - a firestorm over some other petty bullshit, namely Boris refusing to look at a phone and then putting it in his pocket. The result was that the final YouGov MRP tanked to show a majority of only 28, causing much glee to those who imagined they'd managed to get Boris at last. A few days later, the coverage was forgotten, the fundamentals reasserted themselves, and Boris won an 80-seat majority and the highest share of the vote in 40 years.

    It's almost as if a pattern is starting to emerge, but what could it possibly be... :wink:

    All good points but let's not forget that you are comfortable with a lying PM. Others not so much.
    Ah, but the 'lying' PM just achieved the highest polling lead - outlier or not - for any government that has been in power for this long a period in living memory. Even @ydoethur - to whom I'm happy to defer on modern history - could produce only a 17-point lead to match it: John Major, a year before he won the largest number of votes in British electoral history. Any guesses for who holds the current number 2 record?

    Clearly enough people have no absolutist moral attachment to Truth as if it were a Platonic Form, but take people and politicians as they find them, and simply like what they like...
    Don't disagree either. What a shame though. Plus there's lying, there's failure to adhere to a political promise, and then there's being a completely immoral lying solipsistic twat and rubbing the fans', your faces in it.
    If all this is true about Boris then Labour in particular have the perfect opportunity to cleanse the stables with their: Honesty, Better Policies, Truth, Consistency, Competence, Top Marks for Transparency, A Front Bench of Attlees and Roy Jenkinses, A Scheme For Dealing with Deficit and Paying Off the Debt.

    What can Diane Abbott, Richard Burgon and Laura Pidcock be waiting for? Why on earth are they not already at 60% in the polls?

    In my view anyone who has the UK's interest at heart will support Starmer, and not necessarily because he's that good.

    I thought the same about Hillary Clinton. Nothing about Trump's presidency changed my mind.
    A genuinely difficult issue. all sorts of questions. Is Boris as dangerous as you imply. Is he properly comparable to Trump. Is he as dangerous as the Labour left that so nearly won on 2017. Is he as dangerous as the threat on re running the Brexit referendum, a view held by SKS among others.

    IMHO no. Or not yet.

    In particular on the subject of political misleading, this happens in different registers, some attracting more attention than others.

    For me the greatest domestic political inexactitude of recent years has been the Remainery trope, pedalled by a highly respected establishment, that the EU is not accompanied by the trappings and baggage of an emerging state when this is obviously and factually untrue.

    Compared with this the twistings and turnings of the current Tory chiefs is trivial and a price sadly worth paying and essential.


  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Sandpit said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Hope that’s just bad reporting, and government aren’t going to be so silly as to mandate replacement of working equipment?
    Sounds like bad reporting/summarising:

    “The Business department wants to make it mandatory for anyone replacing a conventional gas boiler or doing significant renovations to go green”.

    I have no issue with banning the sale of new inefficient models. I also have no issue with making someone who is spending tens of thousands on an extension chuck in another grand as a planning condition.


  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    BBC News - Sasha Johnson: Black Lives Matter activist critical after shooting, party says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57223755

    Why are the media leading with this "threats against her", when the police is its nonsense and a close friends say no she was at a party and was gang fight.

    Hope she recovers and the shooter is caught but the media reporting is atrocious.
    The police she wanted to defund should have protected her better....?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    What are people who don't have much money supposed to do?
    Same question to you.

    If you do not agree with this policy, if you do not agree with net zero by 2050, who represents you?
    Labour would probably try and bring the date for this nonsense forward.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Hope that’s just bad reporting, and government aren’t going to be so silly as to mandate replacement of working equipment?
    Sounds like bad reporting/summarising:

    “The Business department wants to make it mandatory for anyone replacing a conventional gas boiler or doing significant renovations to go green”.

    I have no issue with banning the sale of new inefficient models. I also have no issue with making someone who is spending tens of thousands on an extension chuck in another grand as a planning condition.


    It doesn't matter what you have an issue with, the party for the protection of gas boilers and petrol cars does not exist.

    And so you and the rest of us are getting whatever Carrie & Co say.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    AlistairM said:

    AlistairM said:

    Flightradar24 @flightradar24
    We haven't seen any official airline announcements but it looks like some airlines are avoiding Belarus airspace.


    On the other hand, RyanAir are still taking the cheapest route possible...

    Carl Bildt @carlbildt
    It’s slightly insane, but @RyanairPress is flying through Belarus airspace as we speak. What are they thinking? There are also question marks on how they handled yesterday.

    It wouldn't surprise me if Ryanair did change this soon, though. They'll need different refuelling arrangements, for example, which can't always be done in a couple of days.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    The police she wanted to defund should have protected her better....?

    Yes.

    Defund the police doesn't mean fewer police officers doing police work, it means spend less on paramilitary equipment for police forces.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited May 2021

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Hope that’s just bad reporting, and government aren’t going to be so silly as to mandate replacement of working equipment?
    Sounds like bad reporting/summarising:

    “The Business department wants to make it mandatory for anyone replacing a conventional gas boiler or doing significant renovations to go green”.

    I have no issue with banning the sale of new inefficient models. I also have no issue with making someone who is spending tens of thousands on an extension chuck in another grand as a planning condition.


    So if your boiler packs up you're stuffed ? People don't tend to change boilers on a whim.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Hope that’s just bad reporting, and government aren’t going to be so silly as to mandate replacement of working equipment?
    Let's say you didn't support having your gas boiler replaced. Not now. Maybe not ever.

    Who represents you? who would you vote for to protect you from this?
    This is taking the target of 2050 and assuming that it must be met now. An old, old, style of scare story.

    Given the lifecycle of gas boilers (under a decade), the way that this will be done, will be, at some point)

    1) New buildings need to use non-gas boilers
    2) Replacing gas boilers will require using a non-gas boiler.

    Given the target date of 2050, this could mean ending gas boiler installations in.... 2040.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Hope that’s just bad reporting, and government aren’t going to be so silly as to mandate replacement of working equipment?
    Sounds like bad reporting/summarising:

    “The Business department wants to make it mandatory for anyone replacing a conventional gas boiler or doing significant renovations to go green”.

    I have no issue with banning the sale of new inefficient models. I also have no issue with making someone who is spending tens of thousands on an extension chuck in another grand as a planning condition.


    It doesn't matter what you have an issue with, the party for the protection of gas boilers and petrol cars does not exist.

    And so you and the rest of us are getting whatever Carrie & Co say.
    Don’t understand your point. You’re free to set up such a party if you like, and see how many votes you can get.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Hope that’s just bad reporting, and government aren’t going to be so silly as to mandate replacement of working equipment?
    Sounds like bad reporting/summarising:

    “The Business department wants to make it mandatory for anyone replacing a conventional gas boiler or doing significant renovations to go green”.

    I have no issue with banning the sale of new inefficient models. I also have no issue with making someone who is spending tens of thousands on an extension chuck in another grand as a planning condition.


    So if your boiler packs up you're stuffed ? People don't tend to change boilers on a whim.
    My quotes for a new boiler were lower for electric, but more expensive to run. So not necessarily as much of a problem as vice versa.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    What are people who don't have much money supposed to do?
    Same question to you.

    If you do not agree with this policy, if you do not agree with net zero by 2050, who represents you?
    Labour would probably try and bring the date for this nonsense forward.
    And the lib dems are greener than the greens.

    Even Tice & Lozza are on board I think.

    That is the extent to which the green lobby utterly dominate.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    MattW said:

    Curious report in the Guardian that omits (by orders of magnitude) the most populous country in SE Asia:

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/24/south-east-asian-countries-battle-covid-resurgence-amid-lack-of-vaccines

    The real reason that Thailand haven't vaccinated is corruption (no surprise to those of us on the inside). For months there has been a massive squabble about who is getting the vaccine contract because they know it is worth mega $$$.

    The Guardian won't of course report this. It reminds me of that wonderful comment by John Sentamu: the ultimate white liberal's worst nightmare is telling a black person they're wrong :smiley:
    Interesting that AZ vaccine manufacturer in Thailand is scheduled to deliver their first batch in June.
    https://www.astrazeneca.com/country-sites/thailand/press-relaese/thai20210428.html#:~:text=Bangkok, 28 April 2021 – AstraZeneca's,in June of this year.
    Hello. Back again. Start the week with a trip to the gym!

    AIUI June 1st was always the plan. At least, according tom my family there. Been blown a bit off course by a recent spike, due to (see earlier) refugees from Myanmar.
    I haven't, I must confess, tried to see what the situation is there. Always assuming anyone has anywhere near accurate figures.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I want to return to the non-story of the Daylesford Organic food deliveries, which were apparently provided “at cost”, but for which Johnson claims he paid personally.

    The bill amounts to nearly £800 *per week* for a family of 2.5, and Daylesford does not do nappies and baby food.

    How is that even possible?
    Full price Daylesford is expensive, but not THAT expensive, and remember this was “at cost”.

    https://twitter.com/Coldwar_Steve/status/1396748909616279558
    Blast through a magnum of their pink champagne every couple of days and it soon adds up.
    I challenge you to create a basket of goods worth £800 a week.
    That's easy.

    2 magnums of champagne and 250g of Exmoor Cornish Salted Caviar, and my grocery shop.
    'Exmoor Cornish'? You're pixie-led. One or the other but not both.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Sandpit said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    Homeowners will face hefty fines if they do not replace their old gas boilers with expensive green alternatives...

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/15047236/homeowners-fines-replace-gas-boilers-green/

    Hope that’s just bad reporting, and government aren’t going to be so silly as to mandate replacement of working equipment?
    Sounds like bad reporting/summarising:

    “The Business department wants to make it mandatory for anyone replacing a conventional gas boiler or doing significant renovations to go green”.

    I have no issue with banning the sale of new inefficient models. I also have no issue with making someone who is spending tens of thousands on an extension chuck in another grand as a planning condition.


    It doesn't matter what you have an issue with, the party for the protection of gas boilers and petrol cars does not exist.

    And so you and the rest of us are getting whatever Carrie & Co say.
    Don’t understand your point. You’re free to set up such a party if you like, and see how many votes you can get.
    My point is that this is a matter on which voters have no agency or leverage. And so your 'issues' can be safely ignored. You may as well not bother expressing them.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    The curious thing about the polls in recent months is how rapidly they have swung one way and then another. My theory is that's related to the marmite nature of the PM. It's impossible to be neutral on him.

    That means that if everything is going well, he is triumphant, but also that his support melts away like the snow in... erm... late May when things go badly.

    So to bet on the next election is mostly to bet on where we are in the love-hate cycle in a few years time. And whilst regaining control of the election date will help him a lot there, it's not foolproof.

    And there is still the Max Hastings theory- everyone who has dealings with the Bozza regrets it in the end. It's just that some people haven't regretted it yet. Eventually the gap between his ability to tell stories and to deliver on them gets too big to ignore. (See fishermen, unionists, farmers...)

    If that's the case then why has approval of Boris and the Tory share been remarkably consistent? The Tories have long polled consistently within Margin of Error of 42% and the gross approval ratings for Boris have been remarkably flat around there too.

    Keir on the other hand has seen his ratings drop off - and "don't knows" become "disapproves".
    Because most people aren't fishermen, unionists or farmers.

    Note that this feature isn't unique to Boris. All PMs - and indeed LOTOs - start as blank canvasses onto which people project their own hopes; all PMs and LOTOs gradually disappoint people over time. The trick is to disappoint people at a slower rate than your counterpart in the opposing party. At the moment, Kier appears to be disappointing people faster than Boris. This may simply reflect that he was the blankest of blank canvasses to start with and there was a lot of projection of individual hopes - with Boris people already knew him pretty well by the time he arrived.
    Indeed that's the theory, and listen to people here and you'd think Boris would be worse than normal PMs for that, but lets compare Boris's final 2019 approval ratings just before he won an 80 seat majority versus today's midterm approval ratings.

    2019 YouGov 41%
    2021 YouGov 48%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 7%

    2019 Opinium 33%
    2021 Opinium 43%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 10%

    2019 Ipsos MORI 36%
    2021 Ipsos MORI 44%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 8%

    2019 Panelbase 36%
    2021 Panelbase 41%
    Fall in Boris's approval rating from disappointing people: Minus 5%

    Rather consistent picture. If he's falling, he's falling upwards.
    Brilliant. Boris has turned out to be a massive undisappointment...
    Huh, fair enough. How to explain that? Back to the original theory: he's disappointing people - like unionists, fishermen and farmers BUT in Nov 2019 he had a big reservoir of people who were either sceptical or quite hostile to him, and now he's got a bit of governing under his belt and been shown to be nothing like as bad as his detractors forecast, some of the disapproval has faded away - indeed more of the disapproval has faded away than new disapproval has been accrued.
    Exactly. His detractors - many of whom have literally no grasp of political strategy - set the bar so low by calling him all the worst things under the sun that the reality can't help but exceed expectations. So as he becomes more popular they sit in stunned perplexity, learn nothing from their mistakes, and double down on the petty smears because they worked so well last time...
This discussion has been closed.