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The extraordinary change in Johnson/Starmer leader ratings in just two weeks – politicalbetting.com

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    No, it’s not.
    Yes, it is.
    A private foundation offered a service to a private individual for which it was paid the rack rate.

    I get you might think it’s unfair. But it’s not an insult
  • Options
    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    rcs1000 said:

    It's gone a bit unnoticed, but there is a curious difference between most EU countries and the UK going on right now.

    Simply: despite being two to three months behind the UK, as far as vaccinations go, most EU countries are removing restrictions. Denmark, for example, will is going to remove almost all Covid restrictions from Friday. Only nightclubs will remain closed.

    My gut is that the UK has been far too cautious in reopening, and has therefore thrown away a good part of the benefits from its successful vaccination programme.

    However... given that most of the EU still has relatively high levels of Covid (typically 2-5x the UK on a per person basis), this is a gutsy call.

    However (part two), this doesn't tell the whole story. Denmark tests more than 10% of its population each day, and has managed to be pretty successful at shielding the more vulnerable. This means there are remarkably few people in hospital with Covid in the whole country (just 166, of which only 31 are in intensive care).

    Anyway: it's a good reason to be cautious about reopening the borders with the EU. But it's also going to be a great counterfactual: could we have reopened the economy earlier without seeing a spike in hospitalizations.

    Yes it certainly seems to me that the UK has been unnesccarily cautious in reopening. The January wave seems to have left a big trauma, considering up until December the UK was much more lax than other countries. It was only in January that my parents seemed to actually become scared of the virus.

    Even now I find the level of pessimism in UK surprising. Here in France you do get various experts warning about a new wave but the government itself has taken a much more optimistic tone for the reopening. Many poor decisions made on the vaccines yes but Macron has been much better at trying to avoid lockdowns as much as possible. I have been relatively more free here (if not actually free) than the UK for most of this year, despite France having many more cases for months now.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,317

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    My sister lives in Texas. Her colleagues were apparently astonished to learn that, when living in England, she used to take a 40 minute walk to work each day.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    You have to pass an entrance exam to get into Harrow too, Harrow may not be as academic as Eton or Winchester or Westminster but it is not Stowe either (and even Stowe requires 55% average at Common Entrance)
    Did not David Cameron once muse that Eton was becoming too academically intensive and it was the thick sons of gentleman farmers and the aristocracy who made the place?
    Eton is catching up with Winchester and Westminster, which have always traditionally been the most academically intense of the top rank public schools if slightly less socially exclusive than Eton, with scholarships and highly competitive entrance.

    Before Cameron of course went to Eton as befits his class, along with Boris, even if their brains did not perhaps match those of Winchester educated Sunak
    The last debating competition my son was in at Durham had 8 teams from Eton, one of which ultimately won. They haven’t given up on teaching future cabinet ministers just yet.
    Oxbridge has become very wary of taking Etonians (one per college per year) so for those who miss out Durham, Exeter or St. Andrews remain popular choices. My nephew ended up at Durham.
    Plenty of Etonians at Bristol too
    Yep and Universities that they might have thought twice about previously such as Newcastle and Leeds. Very rah those now.
    Newcastle has always been popular with them: party city!
    Newcastle, more specifically Castle Leazes, was full of rahs, including one Princess Eugenie who was a student there at the same time as me, the first time round.

    I could have bumped into her in the Sinners trebles bar and never known it.
    When he was a student at Exeter, Peter Philips - Princess Anne’s son - tried to seduce my then girlfriend (also a student). He failed. Or so she told me

    Ironically, when I look back at old photos I realise that she was a dead ringer for Meghan Markle, except paler and more wistful. An absolute stunner

    Sigh
    Getting a bit of a 'did a search for her on FB' vibe tbh
    She was also the first girl to send me a nude selfie. So it must have happened around the advent of mobile phone cameras, in the early Noughties

    I was sitting in a soho club when it pinged, unheralded, onto my phone. It was a huge, sudden jolt of eroticism. Like a minor heart attack

    I’ve still got this primordial image stored on my latest phone. Very poor resolution ofc
    I still have some life drawings of my first serious girlfriend.
    Unfortunately melancholy tends to overwhelm the erotic charge.
    Picturing DiCaprio and Winslet here, TUD, needless to say.
    Ah were a lad from the mean streets of Aberdeen, handy wi' a stick o' charcoal, she were from the posh side o' Dundee. It were doomed to fail, but for a couple o' delirious years..

    On an associated topic, I've been watching Mare of Easttown. I'd always thought Winslet a so so actress and quite dim on the sole basis of seeing her on Who do you Think you Are. Good tv and her performance is outstanding, US friends tell me her Pennsylvania accent is on the button. Quite revised my opinion of her...
    Tough accent to pull off, apparently.
    Winslett said it was as hard as doing a Polish-Armenian-Russian accent, and made her "want to throw things".
    https://www.phillyvoice.com/kate-winslet-philly-accent-mare-of-easttown-trailer-hbo-series-delco/

    What really impressed the rest of the crew, reportedly, was that between takes she reverted to her own accent, while other US cast members had to stay in the role or lose it.
    Have NOT watched "Mare of Easttown" but according to the web is set in Philly burbs. Where the accent is NOT the same as say in the rustbelt of Western PA.

    Would be more impressed if actual native speakers of Pennsylvanian (any dialect) were to weigh in on this. Keeping in mind that most American's in 1960s thought that Dick Van Dyke's "cockney" accent was pretty doggone authentic!
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    .

    TOPPING said:

    Boris saying he'll make the decision "in a few days" sounds like he wants to say yes we're opening before any meaningful stats from May 17th start appearing.

    That’s odd. I thought the decision is made a week before the date, not four weeks.
    Suspect there are mixed messages

    They are making the formal decision on 14 June.

    But if things start going in the wrong decision they might bring things forward
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,575
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    Brexit could not happen, given the various red lines, without either: Leaving with no deal, or leaving with a deal which contained delusion and contradiction over NI. No other choices were available (counter suggestions welcome).

    Leaving with no deal would have left the contradiction firmly in the hands of the EU/RoI because it was their rules which required a regulated border and they would have had to put up barriers at the border.

    Boris left it as mostly his problem, though not entirely. Because we have left, someone's red lines are going to shift. But the political achievement is that we have left, and fulfilled the mandate without the chaos of No Deal.

    Politics is what it is - a dark grey art. Boris has been as honourable over this as is feasible.
    A good take but a very generous one. A Brexit other than Brino wasn't possible without messing up Ireland. But does this mean we applaud Johnson lying to all and sundry to finesse the issue? I think we should leave that to his bois.
    Politics in the art of the possible and all that. Not applauding Johnson; political use of terminological in exactitude goes with the territory. And small scale UK dealing with the EU have a hard road with a power with little to lose and no democratic accountability.

    The single most impressive thing in this sorry episode is that Boris was not willing to take his chance of placing all the burden over Ireland on the EU by leaving without a deal. It will never be noticed but in the rough playground that was invisible statesmanship of a pretty high order.

  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    My sister lives in Texas. Her colleagues were apparently astonished to learn that, when living in England, she used to take a 40 minute walk to work each day.
    IF you attempt to take a 40-minute walk to work in Metro Houston in the summertime, they will find your bones bleaching on the sidewalk somewhere.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    TimS said:

    So the more I read threads like this, the more Labour do seem snookered. No way back through the red wall - I think that's gone. Not enough seats in the big cities to win via the core vote. No route to victory through the Southern shires. No route to victory through Scotland.

    This is much worse for them than the 80s, or even that for the Tories in the early 200os where there was still always the Eurosceptic / anti-woke / common sense revolution kind of populism to turn to if needed.

    The only way - really the only way - is full on realignment which means electoral reform and PR, which the conservatives will resist at all costs and which not even labour realise they need yet. So the centre-left is out of power for a generation.

    There is zero prospect of a 1997 style Labour victory in 2024 yes.

    However voteshares in 2024 even putting the Tories narrowly ahead like Tories 39%, Labour 37%, LDs 10% and SNP 5% would probably see a Labour minority government propped up by the LDs and SNP with the DUP also refusing to support the Tories without removal of the Irish Sea border
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    It's gone a bit unnoticed, but there is a curious difference between most EU countries and the UK going on right now.

    Simply: despite being two to three months behind the UK, as far as vaccinations go, most EU countries are removing restrictions. Denmark, for example, will is going to remove almost all Covid restrictions from Friday. Only nightclubs will remain closed.

    My gut is that the UK has been far too cautious in reopening, and has therefore thrown away a good part of the benefits from its successful vaccination programme.

    However... given that most of the EU still has relatively high levels of Covid (typically 2-5x the UK on a per person basis), this is a gutsy call.

    However (part two), this doesn't tell the whole story. Denmark tests more than 10% of its population each day, and has managed to be pretty successful at shielding the more vulnerable. This means there are remarkably few people in hospital with Covid in the whole country (just 166, of which only 31 are in intensive care).

    Anyway: it's a good reason to be cautious about reopening the borders with the EU. But it's also going to be a great counterfactual: could we have reopened the economy earlier without seeing a spike in hospitalizations.

    I think it's gone very noticed. By me at least. I have consistently posted about how our lockdown has been longer and more restrictive than many countries around us, noting how, when I have been speaking to people in Paris, etc, how they have had to endure "curfews" and that we would kill for curfews rather than everything closed. Add that to the pictures from friends (as I'm sure you are experiencing also) of big parties of people in the US with no masks.

    Now, at some point perhaps this will be translated into XX deaths saved but that only looks at the "raw" deaths which, although awful for those families, doesn't tell the overall picture of the economy nor society.
    But for the Christmas screwup, they would have been a lot less cautious now.

    When the thought that some might say you're partly responsible for quite a large number of deaths is one your mind, an excess of caution now is quite understandable.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    rcs1000 said:

    It's gone a bit unnoticed, but there is a curious difference between most EU countries and the UK going on right now.

    Simply: despite being two to three months behind the UK, as far as vaccinations go, most EU countries are removing restrictions. Denmark, for example, will is going to remove almost all Covid restrictions from Friday. Only nightclubs will remain closed.

    My gut is that the UK has been far too cautious in reopening, and has therefore thrown away a good part of the benefits from its successful vaccination programme.

    However... given that most of the EU still has relatively high levels of Covid (typically 2-5x the UK on a per person basis), this is a gutsy call.

    However (part two), this doesn't tell the whole story. Denmark tests more than 10% of its population each day, and has managed to be pretty successful at shielding the more vulnerable. This means there are remarkably few people in hospital with Covid in the whole country (just 166, of which only 31 are in intensive care).

    Anyway: it's a good reason to be cautious about reopening the borders with the EU. But it's also going to be a great counterfactual: could we have reopened the economy earlier without seeing a spike in hospitalizations.

    Keeping the Lockdown going even in the reduced format today, is the full embodiment of 'Shutting the barn door after the houses have boulted'

    And at excoriating cost!
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,468

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    I mock-examined a PhD thesis looking at health/environmental impact of 'active travel' (walking, cycling) which asserted (with evidence - I looked into this part in some detail as I found it hard to believe) that the CO2 emissions from a highly efficient car were lower than walking.

    Relative oil consumption depends, of course, on how you like to take your calories :wink:
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,183
    This is interesting



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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,690

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    I had exactly the same experience in Atlanta, but with the door staff at the hotel who at one point seemed to be close to banning me from walking out for my own safety. Needless to say I had a couple of very pleasant walks, though pavement provision isn't the greatest in Southern US cities.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    edited May 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    Whether Harry went to Eton or Stowe would not have made the slightest difference to their life chances (or indeed his as he would be a multimillionaire through inheritance anyway), it was closing most of the grammar schools that reduced working class kids chances of getting into top universities and the top professions.
    Tell that to Ben Houchen.

    He's a Northumbria University Law School graduate.
    His school was a former grammar school
    Aye, that former grammar school got him into that prestigious university and it's done him no harm at all.

    Also his school changed from a grammar school into a comprehensive 9 years before he was even born.
    Most of the best comprehensives used to be the grammar schools in their area still
    Right, but what's your point?

    Are you saying that good schools are good schools, regardless of whether they are grammar schools or not? Because it seems like that's what you're saying.
    I am saying the best state schools in non selective areas still tend to carry something of the grammar school ethos and reputation they had before eg the best state school in Epping Forest, the Davenant, is a Church of England academy but was a grammar school until 1980
    Great — so we agree grammar school status is not required to be a good school. Cool.
    No, the best state schools overall with the best exam results are still grammar schools and the best state schools with the best exam results in non selective areas still tend to be ex grammar schools.

    Even if you do not have a wholesale return to selection, the uniforms, discipline, house systems, emphasis on excellence of grammars still produces results
    Exactly — ex grammar schools. I.e. haven't been grammar schools for over 40 years.

    Also "houses" are not unique to grammar schools. All my comprehensive schools had houses. And uniforms. And discipline.
    Which is closer to the grammar school model than the model preferred by the left
    You don't have a coherent point here.

    Surely the "grammar school model" is just selection. Otherwise there's no difference from the comprehensive model.
    No, the left oppose uniforms, oppose setting and oppose house systems and are less keen on strict discipline too
    Interestingly, school uniforms are extremely unusual in the US, even though it is a significantly more right wing country than the UK.
    They are normal at some of the prestigious private schools on the East coast still and of course the setting and discipline argument is also still an issue in the US too.

    In any case it is strict disciplinarian Singapore which tops the PISA rankings, not the USA
    That wasn't my point.

    My point was simply that this isn't a left/right issue in the US.

    So, it's not the case that right wing states (like Texas) have them, and left wing ones (like California) do not.

    In fact, the only government schools in the US that have uniforms that I am aware of are a couple in New York City.
    New York City I believe has a few selective state schools too which likely have uniforms, which Di Blasio and the Democrats are not that keen on, pushing for a lottery system instead, at least temporarily post pandemic
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031

    rcs1000 said:

    It's gone a bit unnoticed, but there is a curious difference between most EU countries and the UK going on right now.

    Simply: despite being two to three months behind the UK, as far as vaccinations go, most EU countries are removing restrictions. Denmark, for example, will is going to remove almost all Covid restrictions from Friday. Only nightclubs will remain closed.

    My gut is that the UK has been far too cautious in reopening, and has therefore thrown away a good part of the benefits from its successful vaccination programme.

    However... given that most of the EU still has relatively high levels of Covid (typically 2-5x the UK on a per person basis), this is a gutsy call.

    However (part two), this doesn't tell the whole story. Denmark tests more than 10% of its population each day, and has managed to be pretty successful at shielding the more vulnerable. This means there are remarkably few people in hospital with Covid in the whole country (just 166, of which only 31 are in intensive care).

    Anyway: it's a good reason to be cautious about reopening the borders with the EU. But it's also going to be a great counterfactual: could we have reopened the economy earlier without seeing a spike in hospitalizations.

    The Danish experience also seems to imply that some form of risk segmentation can work after all? The received wisdom on here was that it was unworkable?
    So, the Danish risk segmentation system is based on everyone having Covid passports on the phone.

    Basically, if you are coming into contact with higher risk people you need to either be vaccinated yourself, or to have had a negative Covid test in the last 72 hours. It's also allowed them to reopen indoor dining before the UK.

    It's been a very successful (and rather mammoth) IT undertaking.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,504
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731
    edited May 2021

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    You have to pass an entrance exam to get into Harrow too, Harrow may not be as academic as Eton or Winchester or Westminster but it is not Stowe either (and even Stowe requires 55% average at Common Entrance)
    Did not David Cameron once muse that Eton was becoming too academically intensive and it was the thick sons of gentleman farmers and the aristocracy who made the place?
    Eton is catching up with Winchester and Westminster, which have always traditionally been the most academically intense of the top rank public schools if slightly less socially exclusive than Eton, with scholarships and highly competitive entrance.

    Before Cameron of course went to Eton as befits his class, along with Boris, even if their brains did not perhaps match those of Winchester educated Sunak
    The last debating competition my son was in at Durham had 8 teams from Eton, one of which ultimately won. They haven’t given up on teaching future cabinet ministers just yet.
    Oxbridge has become very wary of taking Etonians (one per college per year) so for those who miss out Durham, Exeter or St. Andrews remain popular choices. My nephew ended up at Durham.
    Plenty of Etonians at Bristol too
    Yep and Universities that they might have thought twice about previously such as Newcastle and Leeds. Very rah those now.
    Newcastle has always been popular with them: party city!
    Newcastle, more specifically Castle Leazes, was full of rahs, including one Princess Eugenie who was a student there at the same time as me, the first time round.

    I could have bumped into her in the Sinners trebles bar and never known it.
    When he was a student at Exeter, Peter Philips - Princess Anne’s son - tried to seduce my then girlfriend (also a student). He failed. Or so she told me

    Ironically, when I look back at old photos I realise that she was a dead ringer for Meghan Markle, except paler and more wistful. An absolute stunner

    Sigh
    Getting a bit of a 'did a search for her on FB' vibe tbh
    She was also the first girl to send me a nude selfie. So it must have happened around the advent of mobile phone cameras, in the early Noughties

    I was sitting in a soho club when it pinged, unheralded, onto my phone. It was a huge, sudden jolt of eroticism. Like a minor heart attack

    I’ve still got this primordial image stored on my latest phone. Very poor resolution ofc
    I still have some life drawings of my first serious girlfriend.
    Unfortunately melancholy tends to overwhelm the erotic charge.
    Picturing DiCaprio and Winslet here, TUD, needless to say.
    Ah were a lad from the mean streets of Aberdeen, handy wi' a stick o' charcoal, she were from the posh side o' Dundee. It were doomed to fail, but for a couple o' delirious years..

    On an associated topic, I've been watching Mare of Easttown. I'd always thought Winslet a so so actress and quite dim on the sole basis of seeing her on Who do you Think you Are. Good tv and her performance is outstanding, US friends tell me her Pennsylvania accent is on the button. Quite revised my opinion of her...
    Tough accent to pull off, apparently.
    Winslett said it was as hard as doing a Polish-Armenian-Russian accent, and made her "want to throw things".
    https://www.phillyvoice.com/kate-winslet-philly-accent-mare-of-easttown-trailer-hbo-series-delco/

    What really impressed the rest of the crew, reportedly, was that between takes she reverted to her own accent, while other US cast members had to stay in the role or lose it.
    Have NOT watched "Mare of Easttown" but according to the web is set in Philly burbs. Where the accent is NOT the same as say in the rustbelt of Western PA.

    Would be more impressed if actual native speakers of Pennsylvanian (any dialect) were to weigh in on this. Keeping in mind that most American's in 1960s thought that Dick Van Dyke's "cockney" accent was pretty doggone authentic!
    Doesn't the Philly Voice, which I linked, count ?

    (edit)
    The locals don't think they have an accent, and haven't seen it anyway.
    https://eu.delawareonline.com/story/entertainment/2021/05/01/delco-kate-winslows-mare-easttown-accent-hbo-jawn/4887099001/
    ...“I think it’s laughable that the Delco accent is the hardest she’s ever had to do, because there’s really no accent around here; maybe to her it is, because she’s English,” said Manzi, 39, who’s lived in Glenolden his whole life.

    Manzi said he hasn’t seen “Mare of Easttown.” ...,/i>
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,235
    Selebian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    I mock-examined a PhD thesis looking at health/environmental impact of 'active travel' (walking, cycling) which asserted (with evidence - I looked into this part in some detail as I found it hard to believe) that the CO2 emissions from a highly efficient car were lower than walking.

    Relative oil consumption depends, of course, on how you like to take your calories :wink:
    One assumes that they accounted for respiration during the journey? And compared like for like? So 5 mins car = 5 mins respiration whereas 30 min walk = 30 respiration? But the person is still respiring for the 25 minutes that the car journey saves...
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,521
    rcs1000 said:

    It's gone a bit unnoticed, but there is a curious difference between most EU countries and the UK going on right now.

    Simply: despite being two to three months behind the UK, as far as vaccinations go, most EU countries are removing restrictions. Denmark, for example, will is going to remove almost all Covid restrictions from Friday. Only nightclubs will remain closed.

    My gut is that the UK has been far too cautious in reopening, and has therefore thrown away a good part of the benefits from its successful vaccination programme.

    However... given that most of the EU still has relatively high levels of Covid (typically 2-5x the UK on a per person basis), this is a gutsy call.

    However (part two), this doesn't tell the whole story. Denmark tests more than 10% of its population each day, and has managed to be pretty successful at shielding the more vulnerable. This means there are remarkably few people in hospital with Covid in the whole country (just 166, of which only 31 are in intensive care).

    Anyway: it's a good reason to be cautious about reopening the borders with the EU. But it's also going to be a great counterfactual: could we have reopened the economy earlier without seeing a spike in hospitalizations.

    Once you factor in Pfizer getting to work better faster, the increasing rate of vaccination everywhere and relative UK caution on this reopening, there might not be that much more benefit for the UK to bank for its excellent start to the vaccination programme. (That's not to deny the benefit in lives saved, but that benefit has largely happened now.)

    Look at it this way.
    Demnark is currently on about 45 vaccine doses per 100 residents; about the same as the rest of the EU. That's where the UK was 8 weeks ago on March 22 and the US on 1 April, so about 6 weeks ago. As vaccine production and use accelerate, that 8 week gap won't take 8 weeks to close up at the end.

    Denmark's case density now is about the same as the US's was then; a bit under 20 per 100k people per day. The UK was lower on March 22 (about 8 cases per 100 k per day) but I think it's fair to say that the UK has been forced into an over-cautious corner by the previous clustershambleses.
    The US is doing OK, isn't it?

    Besides- if the FT data analysis is to be believed, Denmark has managed the Covidtide with no more deaths overall than in a normal year. Clever old Denmark.

    (source: https://www.ft.com/content/a2901ce8-5eb7-4633-b89c-cbdf5b386938)

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,370
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    .

    TOPPING said:

    Boris saying he'll make the decision "in a few days" sounds like he wants to say yes we're opening before any meaningful stats from May 17th start appearing.

    That’s odd. I thought the decision is made a week before the date, not four weeks.
    Suspect there are mixed messages

    They are making the formal decision on 14 June.

    But if things start going in the wrong decision they might bring things forward
    As I said, I get the feeling that he is going to make a decision "in a few days" in order to pre-empt any bad news.

    Unless "a few days" = June 14th in which case that is a month away but pure Boris and is indeed a few days vs the six months of restrictions.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,504
    UK cases

    Today

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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    Whether Harry went to Eton or Stowe would not have made the slightest difference to their life chances (or indeed his as he would be a multimillionaire through inheritance anyway), it was closing most of the grammar schools that reduced working class kids chances of getting into top universities and the top professions.
    Tell that to Ben Houchen.

    He's a Northumbria University Law School graduate.
    His school was a former grammar school
    Aye, that former grammar school got him into that prestigious university and it's done him no harm at all.

    Also his school changed from a grammar school into a comprehensive 9 years before he was even born.
    Most of the best comprehensives used to be the grammar schools in their area still
    Right, but what's your point?

    Are you saying that good schools are good schools, regardless of whether they are grammar schools or not? Because it seems like that's what you're saying.
    I am saying the best state schools in non selective areas still tend to carry something of the grammar school ethos and reputation they had before eg the best state school in Epping Forest, the Davenant, is a Church of England academy but was a grammar school until 1980
    Great — so we agree grammar school status is not required to be a good school. Cool.
    No, the best state schools overall with the best exam results are still grammar schools and the best state schools with the best exam results in non selective areas still tend to be ex grammar schools.

    Even if you do not have a wholesale return to selection, the uniforms, discipline, house systems, emphasis on excellence of grammars still produces results
    Exactly — ex grammar schools. I.e. haven't been grammar schools for over 40 years.

    Also "houses" are not unique to grammar schools. All my comprehensive schools had houses. And uniforms. And discipline.
    Which is closer to the grammar school model than the model preferred by the left
    You don't have a coherent point here.

    Surely the "grammar school model" is just selection. Otherwise there's no difference from the comprehensive model.
    No, the left oppose uniforms, oppose setting and oppose house systems and are less keen on strict discipline too
    Interestingly, school uniforms are extremely unusual in the US, even though it is a significantly more right wing country than the UK.
    They are normal at some of the prestigious private schools on the East coast still and of course the setting and discipline argument is also still an issue in the US too.

    In any case it is strict disciplinarian Singapore which tops the PISA rankings, not the USA
    That wasn't my point.

    My point was simply that this isn't a left/right issue in the US.

    So, it's not the case that right wing states (like Texas) have them, and left wing ones (like California) do not.

    In fact, the only government schools in the US that have uniforms that I am aware of are a couple in New York City.
    What about the military schools? They seem more prevalent in the US than here (or anywhere outside the PRC?!).

    Does everyone who goes to one end up going into the military?
    US "military" schools are for the juvenile delinquent spawn (for example Donald Trumpsky) of well-healed parents, who want to a) ship their brats AWAY from home; and b) hope the experience will make them straighten up and fly right.

    Nobody with a serious interest in a military career goes to a "military" school as a high-school alternative. They are NOT the path to West Point, Annapolis or Colorado Springs.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,504
    UK positivity

    image
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,370
    edited May 2021
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    It's gone a bit unnoticed, but there is a curious difference between most EU countries and the UK going on right now.

    Simply: despite being two to three months behind the UK, as far as vaccinations go, most EU countries are removing restrictions. Denmark, for example, will is going to remove almost all Covid restrictions from Friday. Only nightclubs will remain closed.

    My gut is that the UK has been far too cautious in reopening, and has therefore thrown away a good part of the benefits from its successful vaccination programme.

    However... given that most of the EU still has relatively high levels of Covid (typically 2-5x the UK on a per person basis), this is a gutsy call.

    However (part two), this doesn't tell the whole story. Denmark tests more than 10% of its population each day, and has managed to be pretty successful at shielding the more vulnerable. This means there are remarkably few people in hospital with Covid in the whole country (just 166, of which only 31 are in intensive care).

    Anyway: it's a good reason to be cautious about reopening the borders with the EU. But it's also going to be a great counterfactual: could we have reopened the economy earlier without seeing a spike in hospitalizations.

    I think it's gone very noticed. By me at least. I have consistently posted about how our lockdown has been longer and more restrictive than many countries around us, noting how, when I have been speaking to people in Paris, etc, how they have had to endure "curfews" and that we would kill for curfews rather than everything closed. Add that to the pictures from friends (as I'm sure you are experiencing also) of big parties of people in the US with no masks.

    Now, at some point perhaps this will be translated into XX deaths saved but that only looks at the "raw" deaths which, although awful for those families, doesn't tell the overall picture of the economy nor society.
    But for the Christmas screwup, they would have been a lot less cautious now.

    When the thought that some might say you're partly responsible for quite a large number of deaths is one your mind, an excess of caution now is quite understandable.
    Oh I get that. But the overshoot (imo) has also had consequences for the overall health of the nation.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,504
    UK Hospitals

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,504
    UK R

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,504
    UK Deaths

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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,992
    edited May 2021

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    Indeed. As a callow youth I was stopped by the cops and briefly questioned for walking the 10 minutes to the shop to buy some cigs in suburban Oceanside, Cal.
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,818
    Looks to me very much like our speculation that it would turn out to be an isolated spike that would fall back into the floor of the general gentle decrease is being borne out.

    It ran into too many vaccinated people when it got to the edge of the unvaccinated clump.

    Cases now down week on week. Hospitalisations UK-wide about to drop into double figures for at least the next three days. Number in hospital down to triple digits. Deaths definitely dropping again after that one-off spike.
    A stalling in those in mechanical ventilation beds, but that's to be expected with those unvaccinated who got exposed; I wouldn't expect this to be sustained as the cases are dropping (reducing community transmission) and (hopefully) importation of cases will have stopped.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    Whether Harry went to Eton or Stowe would not have made the slightest difference to their life chances (or indeed his as he would be a multimillionaire through inheritance anyway), it was closing most of the grammar schools that reduced working class kids chances of getting into top universities and the top professions.
    Tell that to Ben Houchen.

    He's a Northumbria University Law School graduate.
    His school was a former grammar school
    Aye, that former grammar school got him into that prestigious university and it's done him no harm at all.

    Also his school changed from a grammar school into a comprehensive 9 years before he was even born.
    Most of the best comprehensives used to be the grammar schools in their area still
    Right, but what's your point?

    Are you saying that good schools are good schools, regardless of whether they are grammar schools or not? Because it seems like that's what you're saying.
    I am saying the best state schools in non selective areas still tend to carry something of the grammar school ethos and reputation they had before eg the best state school in Epping Forest, the Davenant, is a Church of England academy but was a grammar school until 1980
    Great — so we agree grammar school status is not required to be a good school. Cool.
    No, the best state schools overall with the best exam results are still grammar schools and the best state schools with the best exam results in non selective areas still tend to be ex grammar schools.

    Even if you do not have a wholesale return to selection, the uniforms, discipline, house systems, emphasis on excellence of grammars still produces results
    Exactly — ex grammar schools. I.e. haven't been grammar schools for over 40 years.

    Also "houses" are not unique to grammar schools. All my comprehensive schools had houses. And uniforms. And discipline.
    Which is closer to the grammar school model than the model preferred by the left
    You don't have a coherent point here.

    Surely the "grammar school model" is just selection. Otherwise there's no difference from the comprehensive model.
    No, the left oppose uniforms, oppose setting and oppose house systems and are less keen on strict discipline too
    Interestingly, school uniforms are extremely unusual in the US, even though it is a significantly more right wing country than the UK.
    They are normal at some of the prestigious private schools on the East coast still and of course the setting and discipline argument is also still an issue in the US too.

    In any case it is strict disciplinarian Singapore which tops the PISA rankings, not the USA
    That wasn't my point.

    My point was simply that this isn't a left/right issue in the US.

    So, it's not the case that right wing states (like Texas) have them, and left wing ones (like California) do not.

    In fact, the only government schools in the US that have uniforms that I am aware of are a couple in New York City.
    What about the military schools? They seem more prevalent in the US than here (or anywhere outside the PRC?!).

    Does everyone who goes to one end up going into the military?
    Wow: there are a surprisingly large number of military schools in the US (https://militaryschoolusa.com/all-states/)

    And I presume the answer is "no".
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731
    Selebian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    I mock-examined a PhD thesis looking at health/environmental impact of 'active travel' (walking, cycling) which asserted (with evidence - I looked into this part in some detail as I found it hard to believe) that the CO2 emissions from a highly efficient car were lower than walking.

    Relative oil consumption depends, of course, on how you like to take your calories :wink:
    Is that assuming the driver doesn't breathe ?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,370
    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    I had exactly the same experience in Atlanta, but with the door staff at the hotel who at one point seemed to be close to banning me from walking out for my own safety. Needless to say I had a couple of very pleasant walks, though pavement provision isn't the greatest in Southern US cities.
    I was staying with a friend in Oak Park, Illinois one time and said, given that it was a nice day, that I would like to walk up to Michigan Avenue. I was told in no uncertain terms that if I did that I would be killed well before I reached my destination.
  • Options
    MaffewMaffew Posts: 235

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    When I visited California a few years ago I forgot to bring trainers and asked at my hotel where the nearest place I could buy shoes was. They told me it was a 10 minute drive down a particular road. I asked how long it would take to walk and was met with incomprehension. It took several rounds of questions before they really registered that I did indeed want to walk there if possible.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    It's gone a bit unnoticed, but there is a curious difference between most EU countries and the UK going on right now.

    Simply: despite being two to three months behind the UK, as far as vaccinations go, most EU countries are removing restrictions. Denmark, for example, will is going to remove almost all Covid restrictions from Friday. Only nightclubs will remain closed.

    My gut is that the UK has been far too cautious in reopening, and has therefore thrown away a good part of the benefits from its successful vaccination programme.

    However... given that most of the EU still has relatively high levels of Covid (typically 2-5x the UK on a per person basis), this is a gutsy call.

    However (part two), this doesn't tell the whole story. Denmark tests more than 10% of its population each day, and has managed to be pretty successful at shielding the more vulnerable. This means there are remarkably few people in hospital with Covid in the whole country (just 166, of which only 31 are in intensive care).

    Anyway: it's a good reason to be cautious about reopening the borders with the EU. But it's also going to be a great counterfactual: could we have reopened the economy earlier without seeing a spike in hospitalizations.

    The Danish experience also seems to imply that some form of risk segmentation can work after all? The received wisdom on here was that it was unworkable?
    So, the Danish risk segmentation system is based on everyone having Covid passports on the phone.

    Basically, if you are coming into contact with higher risk people you need to either be vaccinated yourself, or to have had a negative Covid test in the last 72 hours. It's also allowed them to reopen indoor dining before the UK.

    It's been a very successful (and rather mammoth) IT undertaking.
    Tyranny !
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031

    rcs1000 said:

    It's gone a bit unnoticed, but there is a curious difference between most EU countries and the UK going on right now.

    Simply: despite being two to three months behind the UK, as far as vaccinations go, most EU countries are removing restrictions. Denmark, for example, will is going to remove almost all Covid restrictions from Friday. Only nightclubs will remain closed.

    My gut is that the UK has been far too cautious in reopening, and has therefore thrown away a good part of the benefits from its successful vaccination programme.

    However... given that most of the EU still has relatively high levels of Covid (typically 2-5x the UK on a per person basis), this is a gutsy call.

    However (part two), this doesn't tell the whole story. Denmark tests more than 10% of its population each day, and has managed to be pretty successful at shielding the more vulnerable. This means there are remarkably few people in hospital with Covid in the whole country (just 166, of which only 31 are in intensive care).

    Anyway: it's a good reason to be cautious about reopening the borders with the EU. But it's also going to be a great counterfactual: could we have reopened the economy earlier without seeing a spike in hospitalizations.

    Once you factor in Pfizer getting to work better faster, the increasing rate of vaccination everywhere and relative UK caution on this reopening, there might not be that much more benefit for the UK to bank for its excellent start to the vaccination programme. (That's not to deny the benefit in lives saved, but that benefit has largely happened now.)

    Look at it this way.
    Demnark is currently on about 45 vaccine doses per 100 residents; about the same as the rest of the EU. That's where the UK was 8 weeks ago on March 22 and the US on 1 April, so about 6 weeks ago. As vaccine production and use accelerate, that 8 week gap won't take 8 weeks to close up at the end.

    Denmark's case density now is about the same as the US's was then; a bit under 20 per 100k people per day. The UK was lower on March 22 (about 8 cases per 100 k per day) but I think it's fair to say that the UK has been forced into an over-cautious corner by the previous clustershambleses.
    The US is doing OK, isn't it?

    Besides- if the FT data analysis is to be believed, Denmark has managed the Covidtide with no more deaths overall than in a normal year. Clever old Denmark.

    (source: https://www.ft.com/content/a2901ce8-5eb7-4633-b89c-cbdf5b386938)

    Those Danish numbers are extraordinary, with no excess death toll at all from CV19.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    I mock-examined a PhD thesis looking at health/environmental impact of 'active travel' (walking, cycling) which asserted (with evidence - I looked into this part in some detail as I found it hard to believe) that the CO2 emissions from a highly efficient car were lower than walking.

    Relative oil consumption depends, of course, on how you like to take your calories :wink:
    Is that assuming the driver doesn't breathe ?
    A driver's breathing rate is lower than someone who is actively travelling the same distance.

    Though of course exercise is meant to be considered a good thing in general ...
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,504
    Age related data

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    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    You have to pass an entrance exam to get into Harrow too, Harrow may not be as academic as Eton or Winchester or Westminster but it is not Stowe either (and even Stowe requires 55% average at Common Entrance)
    Did not David Cameron once muse that Eton was becoming too academically intensive and it was the thick sons of gentleman farmers and the aristocracy who made the place?
    Eton is catching up with Winchester and Westminster, which have always traditionally been the most academically intense of the top rank public schools if slightly less socially exclusive than Eton, with scholarships and highly competitive entrance.

    Before Cameron of course went to Eton as befits his class, along with Boris, even if their brains did not perhaps match those of Winchester educated Sunak
    The last debating competition my son was in at Durham had 8 teams from Eton, one of which ultimately won. They haven’t given up on teaching future cabinet ministers just yet.
    Oxbridge has become very wary of taking Etonians (one per college per year) so for those who miss out Durham, Exeter or St. Andrews remain popular choices. My nephew ended up at Durham.
    Plenty of Etonians at Bristol too
    Yep and Universities that they might have thought twice about previously such as Newcastle and Leeds. Very rah those now.
    Newcastle has always been popular with them: party city!
    Newcastle, more specifically Castle Leazes, was full of rahs, including one Princess Eugenie who was a student there at the same time as me, the first time round.

    I could have bumped into her in the Sinners trebles bar and never known it.
    When he was a student at Exeter, Peter Philips - Princess Anne’s son - tried to seduce my then girlfriend (also a student). He failed. Or so she told me

    Ironically, when I look back at old photos I realise that she was a dead ringer for Meghan Markle, except paler and more wistful. An absolute stunner

    Sigh
    Getting a bit of a 'did a search for her on FB' vibe tbh
    She was also the first girl to send me a nude selfie. So it must have happened around the advent of mobile phone cameras, in the early Noughties

    I was sitting in a soho club when it pinged, unheralded, onto my phone. It was a huge, sudden jolt of eroticism. Like a minor heart attack

    I’ve still got this primordial image stored on my latest phone. Very poor resolution ofc
    I still have some life drawings of my first serious girlfriend.
    Unfortunately melancholy tends to overwhelm the erotic charge.
    Picturing DiCaprio and Winslet here, TUD, needless to say.
    Ah were a lad from the mean streets of Aberdeen, handy wi' a stick o' charcoal, she were from the posh side o' Dundee. It were doomed to fail, but for a couple o' delirious years..

    On an associated topic, I've been watching Mare of Easttown. I'd always thought Winslet a so so actress and quite dim on the sole basis of seeing her on Who do you Think you Are. Good tv and her performance is outstanding, US friends tell me her Pennsylvania accent is on the button. Quite revised my opinion of her.

    Edit: she was also good in The Reader which I'd forgotten about
    How's that Aberdonian accent working out for you in Glasgow?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,370

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    Whether Harry went to Eton or Stowe would not have made the slightest difference to their life chances (or indeed his as he would be a multimillionaire through inheritance anyway), it was closing most of the grammar schools that reduced working class kids chances of getting into top universities and the top professions.
    Tell that to Ben Houchen.

    He's a Northumbria University Law School graduate.
    His school was a former grammar school
    Aye, that former grammar school got him into that prestigious university and it's done him no harm at all.

    Also his school changed from a grammar school into a comprehensive 9 years before he was even born.
    Most of the best comprehensives used to be the grammar schools in their area still
    Right, but what's your point?

    Are you saying that good schools are good schools, regardless of whether they are grammar schools or not? Because it seems like that's what you're saying.
    I am saying the best state schools in non selective areas still tend to carry something of the grammar school ethos and reputation they had before eg the best state school in Epping Forest, the Davenant, is a Church of England academy but was a grammar school until 1980
    Great — so we agree grammar school status is not required to be a good school. Cool.
    No, the best state schools overall with the best exam results are still grammar schools and the best state schools with the best exam results in non selective areas still tend to be ex grammar schools.

    Even if you do not have a wholesale return to selection, the uniforms, discipline, house systems, emphasis on excellence of grammars still produces results
    Exactly — ex grammar schools. I.e. haven't been grammar schools for over 40 years.

    Also "houses" are not unique to grammar schools. All my comprehensive schools had houses. And uniforms. And discipline.
    Which is closer to the grammar school model than the model preferred by the left
    You don't have a coherent point here.

    Surely the "grammar school model" is just selection. Otherwise there's no difference from the comprehensive model.
    No, the left oppose uniforms, oppose setting and oppose house systems and are less keen on strict discipline too
    Interestingly, school uniforms are extremely unusual in the US, even though it is a significantly more right wing country than the UK.
    They are normal at some of the prestigious private schools on the East coast still and of course the setting and discipline argument is also still an issue in the US too.

    In any case it is strict disciplinarian Singapore which tops the PISA rankings, not the USA
    That wasn't my point.

    My point was simply that this isn't a left/right issue in the US.

    So, it's not the case that right wing states (like Texas) have them, and left wing ones (like California) do not.

    In fact, the only government schools in the US that have uniforms that I am aware of are a couple in New York City.
    What about the military schools? They seem more prevalent in the US than here (or anywhere outside the PRC?!).

    Does everyone who goes to one end up going into the military?
    US "military" schools are for the juvenile delinquent spawn (for example Donald Trumpsky) of well-healed parents, who want to a) ship their brats AWAY from home; and b) hope the experience will make them straighten up and fly right.

    Nobody with a serious interest in a military career goes to a "military" school as a high-school alternative. They are NOT the path to West Point, Annapolis or Colorado Springs.
    Ah thanks - it seemed so from the films I have watched!!

    And I bet they wear uniforms!
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,468

    Selebian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    I mock-examined a PhD thesis looking at health/environmental impact of 'active travel' (walking, cycling) which asserted (with evidence - I looked into this part in some detail as I found it hard to believe) that the CO2 emissions from a highly efficient car were lower than walking.

    Relative oil consumption depends, of course, on how you like to take your calories :wink:
    One assumes that they accounted for respiration during the journey? And compared like for like? So 5 mins car = 5 mins respiration whereas 30 min walk = 30 respiration? But the person is still respiring for the 25 minutes that the car journey saves...
    Hmm, it was while ago. If it's like most such analyses, I wouldn't be surprised if the person is only counted for the car journey!

    I'm curious now, so I'll probably go and check if I've still got a copy...
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622
    In US, school uniforms are associated with Catholic elementary, middle and (some) high schools. In my neighborhood there is a Catholic school whose students are notable (and obvious) due to their uniform.

    Incidentally, the parish connected with this school, is one of the few where the priest refused to allow the referendum campaign against gay marriage (sponsored by the Knights of Columbus among others) to gather petition signatures on church (and school) property back in 2012.

    Why? Because gays and lesbians accounted for a high percentage of the parents paying high fees to enroll their children.

    Catholic Church genuflects to the Almighty (it's conception of Him anyway).

    And it kisses the ground and rolls in the dirt for the Almighty Dollar.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    edited May 2021
    Selebian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    I mock-examined a PhD thesis looking at health/environmental impact of 'active travel' (walking, cycling) which asserted (with evidence - I looked into this part in some detail as I found it hard to believe) that the CO2 emissions from a highly efficient car were lower than walking.

    Relative oil consumption depends, of course, on how you like to take your calories :wink:
    Do you include all the natural gas used in Haber process, and without which we wouldn't have much in the way of nitrogen fertilizers?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    Whether Harry went to Eton or Stowe would not have made the slightest difference to their life chances (or indeed his as he would be a multimillionaire through inheritance anyway), it was closing most of the grammar schools that reduced working class kids chances of getting into top universities and the top professions.
    Tell that to Ben Houchen.

    He's a Northumbria University Law School graduate.
    His school was a former grammar school
    Aye, that former grammar school got him into that prestigious university and it's done him no harm at all.

    Also his school changed from a grammar school into a comprehensive 9 years before he was even born.
    Most of the best comprehensives used to be the grammar schools in their area still
    Right, but what's your point?

    Are you saying that good schools are good schools, regardless of whether they are grammar schools or not? Because it seems like that's what you're saying.
    I am saying the best state schools in non selective areas still tend to carry something of the grammar school ethos and reputation they had before eg the best state school in Epping Forest, the Davenant, is a Church of England academy but was a grammar school until 1980
    Great — so we agree grammar school status is not required to be a good school. Cool.
    No, the best state schools overall with the best exam results are still grammar schools and the best state schools with the best exam results in non selective areas still tend to be ex grammar schools.

    Even if you do not have a wholesale return to selection, the uniforms, discipline, house systems, emphasis on excellence of grammars still produces results
    Exactly — ex grammar schools. I.e. haven't been grammar schools for over 40 years.

    Also "houses" are not unique to grammar schools. All my comprehensive schools had houses. And uniforms. And discipline.
    Which is closer to the grammar school model than the model preferred by the left
    You don't have a coherent point here.

    Surely the "grammar school model" is just selection. Otherwise there's no difference from the comprehensive model.
    No, the left oppose uniforms, oppose setting and oppose house systems and are less keen on strict discipline too
    Interestingly, school uniforms are extremely unusual in the US, even though it is a significantly more right wing country than the UK.
    They are normal at some of the prestigious private schools on the East coast still and of course the setting and discipline argument is also still an issue in the US too.

    In any case it is strict disciplinarian Singapore which tops the PISA rankings, not the USA
    That wasn't my point.

    My point was simply that this isn't a left/right issue in the US.

    So, it's not the case that right wing states (like Texas) have them, and left wing ones (like California) do not.

    In fact, the only government schools in the US that have uniforms that I am aware of are a couple in New York City.
    What about the military schools? They seem more prevalent in the US than here (or anywhere outside the PRC?!).

    Does everyone who goes to one end up going into the military?
    US "military" schools are for the juvenile delinquent spawn (for example Donald Trumpsky) of well-healed parents, who want to a) ship their brats AWAY from home; and b) hope the experience will make them straighten up and fly right.

    Nobody with a serious interest in a military career goes to a "military" school as a high-school alternative. They are NOT the path to West Point, Annapolis or Colorado Springs.
    Ah thanks - it seemed so from the films I have watched!!

    And I bet they wear uniforms!
    But nattier than the ones issued in most reform schools.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,293
    rcs1000 said:

    It's gone a bit unnoticed, but there is a curious difference between most EU countries and the UK going on right now.

    Simply: despite being two to three months behind the UK, as far as vaccinations go, most EU countries are removing restrictions. Denmark, for example, will is going to remove almost all Covid restrictions from Friday. Only nightclubs will remain closed.

    My gut is that the UK has been far too cautious in reopening, and has therefore thrown away a good part of the benefits from its successful vaccination programme.

    However... given that most of the EU still has relatively high levels of Covid (typically 2-5x the UK on a per person basis), this is a gutsy call.

    However (part two), this doesn't tell the whole story. Denmark tests more than 10% of its population each day, and has managed to be pretty successful at shielding the more vulnerable. This means there are remarkably few people in hospital with Covid in the whole country (just 166, of which only 31 are in intensive care).

    Anyway: it's a good reason to be cautious about reopening the borders with the EU. But it's also going to be a great counterfactual: could we have reopened the economy earlier without seeing a spike in hospitalizations.

    I'd say - indeed did say - that our roadmap was too slow but 'too slow' was what you'd expect it to be. Reason being, political risk management. The probable political upside of going quicker was far far smaller than the unlikely but possible downside of open up, hospitalizations soar, close down again. That could have killed even the charmed Johnson. So, you know, just don't risk it.

    A good comparison (imo) is Labour's Brexit pivot for GE19. If they'd stayed with 'respect the result' they would probably have done better in seats than they did. A Con majority of less than 80. But they felt they HAD to do it to remove a massive downside risk. The unlikely but if it happened catastrophic prospect of the LDs, left to swim the Stop Brexit lane alone, making hay in Remainia and challenging them for 2nd place.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,007
    TOPPING said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    I had exactly the same experience in Atlanta, but with the door staff at the hotel who at one point seemed to be close to banning me from walking out for my own safety. Needless to say I had a couple of very pleasant walks, though pavement provision isn't the greatest in Southern US cities.
    I was staying with a friend in Oak Park, Illinois one time and said, given that it was a nice day, that I would like to walk up to Michigan Avenue. I was told in no uncertain terms that if I did that I would be killed well before I reached my destination.
    Having traveled the reverse route a couple of times by the Chicago "L" I can believe them - the areas in between are definitely not the nicest..
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    .

    TOPPING said:

    Boris saying he'll make the decision "in a few days" sounds like he wants to say yes we're opening before any meaningful stats from May 17th start appearing.

    That’s odd. I thought the decision is made a week before the date, not four weeks.
    Suspect there are mixed messages

    They are making the formal decision on 14 June.

    But if things start going in the wrong decision they might bring things forward
    As I said, I get the feeling that he is going to make a decision "in a few days" in order to pre-empt any bad news.

    Unless "a few days" = June 14th in which case that is a month away but pure Boris and is indeed a few days vs the six months of restrictions.
    I suspect in a few days will be an anticlimax.

    My expectation is on Friday to say that the early data is showing no rise in hospitalisations and the vaccine is working, that they will keep the data under review and urge us all to be cautious in the next few weeks and to get the vaccine. Remember hands, face, space, get fresh air and get your vaccine.

    Translation: Keep calm and carry on.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,067
    Lord Frost says UK roadmap for phasing in checks in NI over 4 stages from October is a "live document or rather 2 docs". UK owns one, EU own the other one. "rather unfortunate" it got leaked. But will release it when further evolved.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/17/uk-proposes-phasing-in-irish-sea-border-checks-on-food-brexit
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,452
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    No, it’s not.
    Yes, it is.
    A private foundation offered a service to a private individual for which it was paid the rack rate.

    I get you might think it’s unfair. But it’s not an insult
    The majority will think it unfair.

    The individual may be private but the institution they originate from is not. And I'm sure we are in opposition on this.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited May 2021
    Maffew said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    When I visited California a few years ago I forgot to bring trainers and asked at my hotel where the nearest place I could buy shoes was. They told me it was a 10 minute drive down a particular road. I asked how long it would take to walk and was met with incomprehension. It took several rounds of questions before they really registered that I did indeed want to walk there if possible.
    Perhaps it was your bare feet that explained their quizzical looks.
  • Options
    MaffewMaffew Posts: 235
    ping said:

    Maffew said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    When I visited California a few years ago I forgot to bring trainers and asked at my hotel where the nearest place I could buy shoes was. They told me it was a 10 minute drive down a particular road. I asked how long it would take to walk and was met with incomprehension. It took several rounds of questions before they really registered that I did indeed want to walk there if possible.
    Perhaps it was your bare feet that explained their quizzical looks.
    I'm sure they're used to hobbit cosplayers out there!
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622
    Re: US military schools (as distinguished from US service academies) only kid I personally knew from my small hometown who went to one, was a class-A fuck-up. Who made his mark in the annals of my youth by hosting a wild party and trashing the family home over a long weekend while his parents were out of town.

    Coincidentally (or not) he was also a flaming right-wing jackass. Not a jackass BECAUSE he was right-wing (knew plenty who were the latter but not the former) but rather he was both at the same time.

    Met a fellow military/reform school buddy of his. Was an even bigger right-winger AND jackass.
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Selebian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    I mock-examined a PhD thesis looking at health/environmental impact of 'active travel' (walking, cycling) which asserted (with evidence - I looked into this part in some detail as I found it hard to believe) that the CO2 emissions from a highly efficient car were lower than walking.

    Relative oil consumption depends, of course, on how you like to take your calories :wink:
    That comes back now and again.
    I think, too oversimplify perhaps. the bottom line is that cycling and walking and running is powered by last year's sunshine.
    We had better get busy and rediscover our million years or evolutionary inheritance or witness the consequences.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    I had exactly the same experience in Atlanta, but with the door staff at the hotel who at one point seemed to be close to banning me from walking out for my own safety. Needless to say I had a couple of very pleasant walks, though pavement provision isn't the greatest in Southern US cities.
    I was staying with a friend in Oak Park, Illinois one time and said, given that it was a nice day, that I would like to walk up to Michigan Avenue. I was told in no uncertain terms that if I did that I would be killed well before I reached my destination.
    Having traveled the reverse route a couple of times by the Chicago "L" I can believe them - the areas in between are definitely not the nicest..
    West Side of Chicago. BTW distance from Oak Park to the Loop about 10 miles, about same as from City of London to Barking.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    No, it’s not.
    Yes, it is.
    A private foundation offered a service to a private individual for which it was paid the rack rate.

    I get you might think it’s unfair. But it’s not an insult
    Let's look at things that are "unfair", and adapt the "insult" sentence and see how silly it looks:

    I think it is unfair that some people eat in an expensive restaurant, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people take holidays in the Maldives, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some drive expensive cars, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people live in their own houses, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people buy expensive clothes, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people go to university, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    OK, so probably all who post on here (with the exception of the odd Corbynite nutter), are OK with this unfairness, but probably don't think it is "an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not". But if a parent chooses to privately educate their kids that is somehow different. Illogical.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,293
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    Brexit could not happen, given the various red lines, without either: Leaving with no deal, or leaving with a deal which contained delusion and contradiction over NI. No other choices were available (counter suggestions welcome).

    Leaving with no deal would have left the contradiction firmly in the hands of the EU/RoI because it was their rules which required a regulated border and they would have had to put up barriers at the border.

    Boris left it as mostly his problem, though not entirely. Because we have left, someone's red lines are going to shift. But the political achievement is that we have left, and fulfilled the mandate without the chaos of No Deal.

    Politics is what it is - a dark grey art. Boris has been as honourable over this as is feasible.
    A good take but a very generous one. A Brexit other than Brino wasn't possible without messing up Ireland. But does this mean we applaud Johnson lying to all and sundry to finesse the issue? I think we should leave that to his bois.
    Politics in the art of the possible and all that. Not applauding Johnson; political use of terminological in exactitude goes with the territory. And small scale UK dealing with the EU have a hard road with a power with little to lose and no democratic accountability.

    The single most impressive thing in this sorry episode is that Boris was not willing to take his chance of placing all the burden over Ireland on the EU by leaving without a deal. It will never be noticed but in the rough playground that was invisible statesmanship of a pretty high order.
    No, that don't impress me much. My take is different. He had to have a deal because getting a deal looked like success. An 11th hour negotiating triumph for hardball realpolitik (lol). Crashing out on WTO terms, for all the spin he'd have tried to put on it, would have looked like chaos and failure.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    Is moonshine around?


    Obama was on US TV last night. He was asked, in a jocular way, about all this alien nonsense

    Watch how he shifts from amusement to seriousness, as he says Yes, there is weird shit we cannot explain

    https://twitter.com/blakemecakes/status/1394629351698731013?s=20
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,452
    edited May 2021

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    No, it’s not.
    Yes, it is.
    A private foundation offered a service to a private individual for which it was paid the rack rate.

    I get you might think it’s unfair. But it’s not an insult
    Let's look at things that are "unfair", and adapt the "insult" sentence and see how silly it looks:

    I think it is unfair that some people eat in an expensive restaurant, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people take holidays in the Maldives, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some drive expensive cars, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people live in their own houses, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people buy expensive clothes, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people go to university, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    OK, so probably all who post on here (with the exception of the odd Corbynite nutter), are OK with this unfairness, but probably don't think it is "an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not". But if a parent chooses to privately educate their kids that is somehow different. Illogical.
    That is a mischaracterisation.

    It is unfair that a person of hereditary power uses their birth right to push their progeny into places they are so seemingly unfit for. It is unfair to those without said privilege that this is possible.

    I'm not arguing the fairness of financial inequality, yet....
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,370

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    I had exactly the same experience in Atlanta, but with the door staff at the hotel who at one point seemed to be close to banning me from walking out for my own safety. Needless to say I had a couple of very pleasant walks, though pavement provision isn't the greatest in Southern US cities.
    I was staying with a friend in Oak Park, Illinois one time and said, given that it was a nice day, that I would like to walk up to Michigan Avenue. I was told in no uncertain terms that if I did that I would be killed well before I reached my destination.
    Having traveled the reverse route a couple of times by the Chicago "L" I can believe them - the areas in between are definitely not the nicest..
    West Side of Chicago. BTW distance from Oak Park to the Loop about 10 miles, about same as from City of London to Barking.
    Yep was a lovely day and I had the day to, er, kill....
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,370

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    No, it’s not.
    Yes, it is.
    A private foundation offered a service to a private individual for which it was paid the rack rate.

    I get you might think it’s unfair. But it’s not an insult
    Let's look at things that are "unfair", and adapt the "insult" sentence and see how silly it looks:

    I think it is unfair that some people eat in an expensive restaurant, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people take holidays in the Maldives, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some drive expensive cars, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people live in their own houses, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people buy expensive clothes, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people go to university, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    OK, so probably all who post on here (with the exception of the odd Corbynite nutter), are OK with this unfairness, but probably don't think it is "an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not". But if a parent chooses to privately educate their kids that is somehow different. Illogical.
    That is a mischaracterisation.

    It is unfair that a person of hereditary power uses their birth right to push their progeny into places they are so seemingly unfit for. It is unfair to those without said privilege that this is possible.

    I'm not arguing the fairness of financial inequality, yet....
    What is "hereditary power"?

    Whatever it is the Chinese must have loads of it because there are plenty of Chinese current and OEs.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,101
    Leon said:

    Is moonshine around?


    Obama was on US TV last night. He was asked, in a jocular way, about all this alien nonsense

    Watch how he shifts from amusement to seriousness, as he says Yes, there is weird shit we cannot explain

    https://twitter.com/blakemecakes/status/1394629351698731013?s=20

    Someone in Downing Street should take notes. If they ever need a distraction, they can leak some revelations about the Loch Ness Monster.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    No, it’s not.
    Yes, it is.
    A private foundation offered a service to a private individual for which it was paid the rack rate.

    I get you might think it’s unfair. But it’s not an insult
    Let's look at things that are "unfair", and adapt the "insult" sentence and see how silly it looks:

    I think it is unfair that some people eat in an expensive restaurant, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people take holidays in the Maldives, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some drive expensive cars, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people live in their own houses, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people buy expensive clothes, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people go to university, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    OK, so probably all who post on here (with the exception of the odd Corbynite nutter), are OK with this unfairness, but probably don't think it is "an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not". But if a parent chooses to privately educate their kids that is somehow different. Illogical.
    That is a mischaracterisation.

    It is unfair that a person of hereditary power uses their birth right to push their progeny into places they are so seemingly unfit for. It is unfair to those without said privilege that this is possible.

    I'm not arguing the fairness of financial inequality, yet....
    I am not sure it is a mischaracterisation . I have come across people who will sneer at people choosing to pay for their children's education while very carefully using their wealth to buy a house in a good catchment, and boasting about the best restaurants, holidays etc. Private education is a choice, like buying an expensive holiday, which is dependent on your disposable cash/income. As for the use of influence, everyone does it for their kids and grandchildren if they can -even the Labour Party seems to like the hereditary principle eg. the Benns, the Sawars and many others!) To suggest old Queeny shouldn't seems a bit unfair.
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,452
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    No, it’s not.
    Yes, it is.
    A private foundation offered a service to a private individual for which it was paid the rack rate.

    I get you might think it’s unfair. But it’s not an insult
    Let's look at things that are "unfair", and adapt the "insult" sentence and see how silly it looks:

    I think it is unfair that some people eat in an expensive restaurant, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people take holidays in the Maldives, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some drive expensive cars, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people live in their own houses, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people buy expensive clothes, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people go to university, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    OK, so probably all who post on here (with the exception of the odd Corbynite nutter), are OK with this unfairness, but probably don't think it is "an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not". But if a parent chooses to privately educate their kids that is somehow different. Illogical.
    That is a mischaracterisation.

    It is unfair that a person of hereditary power uses their birth right to push their progeny into places they are so seemingly unfit for. It is unfair to those without said privilege that this is possible.

    I'm not arguing the fairness of financial inequality, yet....
    What is "hereditary power"?

    Whatever it is the Chinese must have loads of it because there are plenty of Chinese current and OEs.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    Toms said:

    Selebian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    I mock-examined a PhD thesis looking at health/environmental impact of 'active travel' (walking, cycling) which asserted (with evidence - I looked into this part in some detail as I found it hard to believe) that the CO2 emissions from a highly efficient car were lower than walking.

    Relative oil consumption depends, of course, on how you like to take your calories :wink:
    That comes back now and again.
    I think, too oversimplify perhaps. the bottom line is that cycling and walking and running is powered by last year's sunshine.
    We had better get busy and rediscover our million years or evolutionary inheritance or witness the consequences.
    Last year's sunshine + phosphate mines + potash mines + industrial processes for turning potash into fertilizer + natural gas to make nitrogen fertilizer + the whole energy and transportation industry = food getting to you.

  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,992
    Weather discussion on PM right now.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    I had exactly the same experience in Atlanta, but with the door staff at the hotel who at one point seemed to be close to banning me from walking out for my own safety. Needless to say I had a couple of very pleasant walks, though pavement provision isn't the greatest in Southern US cities.
    I was staying with a friend in Oak Park, Illinois one time and said, given that it was a nice day, that I would like to walk up to Michigan Avenue. I was told in no uncertain terms that if I did that I would be killed well before I reached my destination.
    Having traveled the reverse route a couple of times by the Chicago "L" I can believe them - the areas in between are definitely not the nicest..
    That said, I was told the same thing about various DC neighbourhoods. I don't know which, mind.

    But I happened to get lost and wandered into an area I was told not to go to, downtown. Frankly, everyone was nicer to me there than elsewhere....
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,293

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    No, it’s not.
    Yes, it is.
    A private foundation offered a service to a private individual for which it was paid the rack rate.

    I get you might think it’s unfair. But it’s not an insult
    Let's look at things that are "unfair", and adapt the "insult" sentence and see how silly it looks:

    I think it is unfair that some people eat in an expensive restaurant, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people take holidays in the Maldives, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some drive expensive cars, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people live in their own houses, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people buy expensive clothes, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people go to university, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    OK, so probably all who post on here (with the exception of the odd Corbynite nutter), are OK with this unfairness, but probably don't think it is "an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not". But if a parent chooses to privately educate their kids that is somehow different. Illogical.
    That is a mischaracterisation.

    It is unfair that a person of hereditary power uses their birth right to push their progeny into places they are so seemingly unfit for. It is unfair to those without said privilege that this is possible.

    I'm not arguing the fairness of financial inequality, yet....
    They're all talking utter shit to you. Defending the indefensible, denying the undeniable. They're trad Tories. It goes with the territory. Private schools tickle their tonsils. Brains go to mush.

    Good luck and chin chin. :smile:
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790

    Leon said:

    Is moonshine around?


    Obama was on US TV last night. He was asked, in a jocular way, about all this alien nonsense

    Watch how he shifts from amusement to seriousness, as he says Yes, there is weird shit we cannot explain

    https://twitter.com/blakemecakes/status/1394629351698731013?s=20

    Someone in Downing Street should take notes. If they ever need a distraction, they can leak some revelations about the Loch Ness Monster.
    I wouldn't put it past Boris Johnson for him to suggest that not only was the legend true, but that Nessy had found a way of communicating his/her concerns about independence !
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,575
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    So the more I read threads like this, the more Labour do seem snookered. No way back through the red wall - I think that's gone. Not enough seats in the big cities to win via the core vote. No route to victory through the Southern shires. No route to victory through Scotland.

    This is much worse for them than the 80s, or even that for the Tories in the early 200os where there was still always the Eurosceptic / anti-woke / common sense revolution kind of populism to turn to if needed.

    The only way - really the only way - is full on realignment which means electoral reform and PR, which the conservatives will resist at all costs and which not even labour realise they need yet. So the centre-left is out of power for a generation.

    There is zero prospect of a 1997 style Labour victory in 2024 yes.

    However voteshares in 2024 even putting the Tories narrowly ahead like Tories 39%, Labour 37%, LDs 10% and SNP 5% would probably see a Labour minority government propped up by the LDs and SNP with the DUP also refusing to support the Tories without removal of the Irish Sea border
    If the prospect of that doesn't get 42% on the centre right out of bed early to vote Tory nothing will. Then prospect of a pact/coalition including SNP will not attract English voters.

    Labour and LDs need to contemplate carefully the 91 seats, mostly Tory, where the LDs come second. In the olden days a few years ago the fact that much of England was contested solely by Tories (first), LDs (second except in 2010) was only of academic interest. Labour had Scottish and northern wall fish to fry. Now they don't and unless they wish to abandon GB unionism those strong LD areas are the place to do the deal. And it needs to be a feasible deal not needing the SNP.

    And if they do want a deal with the SNP they will need the LD areas next time because there won't be any SNP seats because there won't be any seats.

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,370

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    No, it’s not.
    Yes, it is.
    A private foundation offered a service to a private individual for which it was paid the rack rate.

    I get you might think it’s unfair. But it’s not an insult
    Let's look at things that are "unfair", and adapt the "insult" sentence and see how silly it looks:

    I think it is unfair that some people eat in an expensive restaurant, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people take holidays in the Maldives, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some drive expensive cars, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people live in their own houses, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people buy expensive clothes, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people go to university, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    OK, so probably all who post on here (with the exception of the odd Corbynite nutter), are OK with this unfairness, but probably don't think it is "an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not". But if a parent chooses to privately educate their kids that is somehow different. Illogical.
    That is a mischaracterisation.

    It is unfair that a person of hereditary power uses their birth right to push their progeny into places they are so seemingly unfit for. It is unfair to those without said privilege that this is possible.

    I'm not arguing the fairness of financial inequality, yet....
    What is "hereditary power"?

    Whatever it is the Chinese must have loads of it because there are plenty of Chinese current and OEs.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II
    Oh we're talking specifically about Prince Harry? Soz.

    You are seriously worried that he went to one school over another?

    Who cares?
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited May 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    Toms said:

    Selebian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    I mock-examined a PhD thesis looking at health/environmental impact of 'active travel' (walking, cycling) which asserted (with evidence - I looked into this part in some detail as I found it hard to believe) that the CO2 emissions from a highly efficient car were lower than walking.

    Relative oil consumption depends, of course, on how you like to take your calories :wink:
    That comes back now and again.
    I think, too oversimplify perhaps. the bottom line is that cycling and walking and running is powered by last year's sunshine.
    We had better get busy and rediscover our million years or evolutionary inheritance or witness the consequences.
    Last year's sunshine + phosphate mines + potash mines + industrial processes for turning potash into fertilizer + natural gas to make nitrogen fertilizer + the whole energy and transportation industry = food getting to you.

    My uncle, who inherited the family farm spread manure from his cows. Oh and a little chalk. It worked.
    Oh, and while I'm at it, lets bring back "inefficiency".
    Yes I know, cows do fart a lot. So can we adapt?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,622
    Seattle Times ($) - Suspect in Washington state unemployment fraud was a senior Nigerian government aide

    Abidemi Rufai, the Nigerian citizen accused of participating in Washington state’s $650 million unemployment fraud last year, reportedly was also a government official in his home state of Ogun.

    According to European and African media accounts, Rufai was a senior special assistant on housing in the Nigerian state of Ogun and an aide to Ogun Governor Dapo Abiodun.

    Rufai was arrested Friday evening by federal agents at New York’s John F. Kennedy airport as he prepared to leave the United States, according to federal law enforcement officials.

    Rufai, of Lekki, Nigeria, appeared in federal court Saturday on charges that he used the identities of more than 100 Washington residents to steal more than $350,000 in unemployment benefits from the Washington state Employment Security Department during the COVID-19 pandemic last year, according to the federal complaint.

    Media accounts indicate that Rufai, 42, has been suspended from his government position in Ogun.

    “We received the very disturbing news of the arrest of one of the governor’s political appointees, Mr Abidemi Rufai in New York over alleged unemployment benefits and fraud in the United States, this morning,” Kunle Somorin, Abiodun’s chief press secretary, reportedly told the Nigerian newspaper, The Vanguard.

    “While the governor cannot be held responsible for the actions of a full-grown adult, especially outside the jurisdiction of Ogun State and Nigeria, he has since suspended the suspect from office to enable him to answer the charges levelled against him,” Somorin told the Vanguard.

    Michael Orodare, a Nigerian journalist with Nuesroom, also confirmed that Rufai had been suspended from his government position.

    Rufai is scheduled for a detention hearing Wednesday. The case will be prosecuted in federal court in Tacoma.
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,452

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    No, it’s not.
    Yes, it is.
    A private foundation offered a service to a private individual for which it was paid the rack rate.

    I get you might think it’s unfair. But it’s not an insult
    Let's look at things that are "unfair", and adapt the "insult" sentence and see how silly it looks:

    I think it is unfair that some people eat in an expensive restaurant, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people take holidays in the Maldives, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some drive expensive cars, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people live in their own houses, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people buy expensive clothes, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people go to university, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    OK, so probably all who post on here (with the exception of the odd Corbynite nutter), are OK with this unfairness, but probably don't think it is "an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not". But if a parent chooses to privately educate their kids that is somehow different. Illogical.
    That is a mischaracterisation.

    It is unfair that a person of hereditary power uses their birth right to push their progeny into places they are so seemingly unfit for. It is unfair to those without said privilege that this is possible.

    I'm not arguing the fairness of financial inequality, yet....
    I am not sure it is a mischaracterisation . I have come across people who will sneer at people choosing to pay for their children's education while very carefully using their wealth to buy a house in a good catchment, and boasting about the best restaurants, holidays etc. Private education is a choice, like buying an expensive holiday, which is dependent on your disposable cash/income. As for the use of influence, everyone does it for their kids and grandchildren if they can -even the Labour Party seems to like the hereditary principle eg. the Benns, the Sawars and many others!) To suggest old Queeny shouldn't seems a bit unfair.
    I'm not talking about financial disparity although of course that is constituent in inherited power.

    I'm not sure the argument of everyone does it so its is acceptable washes. Do you think that those without inherited power to exploit don't suffer because I know they do and it is unfair.

    I mean Michael Young has hugely influenced my thinking but his actions regarding Toby's further education brought the man down in my estimations. (not that he cares :))
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    No, it’s not.
    Yes, it is.
    A private foundation offered a service to a private individual for which it was paid the rack rate.

    I get you might think it’s unfair. But it’s not an insult
    Let's look at things that are "unfair", and adapt the "insult" sentence and see how silly it looks:

    I think it is unfair that some people eat in an expensive restaurant, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people take holidays in the Maldives, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some drive expensive cars, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people live in their own houses, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people buy expensive clothes, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people go to university, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    OK, so probably all who post on here (with the exception of the odd Corbynite nutter), are OK with this unfairness, but probably don't think it is "an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not". But if a parent chooses to privately educate their kids that is somehow different. Illogical.
    That is a mischaracterisation.

    It is unfair that a person of hereditary power uses their birth right to push their progeny into places they are so seemingly unfit for. It is unfair to those without said privilege that this is possible.

    I'm not arguing the fairness of financial inequality, yet....
    They're all talking utter shit to you. Defending the indefensible, denying the undeniable. They're trad Tories. It goes with the territory. Private schools tickle their tonsils. Brains go to mush.

    Good luck and chin chin. :smile:
    I quite like a lot of your posts, I think you are moderately left and I am moderately right, so I often have more in common with you than many Tories on here. On this, though it is your brain that has turned to mush and you that are talking shit. Try reading my post and tell me that those on the left that do all the things I mention are not hypocrites for being so obsessed by those that like to buy their childrens' schooling? In fact many left leaning people I have met, particularly the metro types, are some of the biggest snobs I have ever encountered.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,450
    edited May 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    Whether Harry went to Eton or Stowe would not have made the slightest difference to their life chances (or indeed his as he would be a multimillionaire through inheritance anyway), it was closing most of the grammar schools that reduced working class kids chances of getting into top universities and the top professions.
    Tell that to Ben Houchen.

    He's a Northumbria University Law School graduate.
    His school was a former grammar school
    Aye, that former grammar school got him into that prestigious university and it's done him no harm at all.

    Also his school changed from a grammar school into a comprehensive 9 years before he was even born.
    Most of the best comprehensives used to be the grammar schools in their area still
    Right, but what's your point?

    Are you saying that good schools are good schools, regardless of whether they are grammar schools or not? Because it seems like that's what you're saying.
    I am saying the best state schools in non selective areas still tend to carry something of the grammar school ethos and reputation they had before eg the best state school in Epping Forest, the Davenant, is a Church of England academy but was a grammar school until 1980
    Great — so we agree grammar school status is not required to be a good school. Cool.
    No, the best state schools overall with the best exam results are still grammar schools and the best state schools with the best exam results in non selective areas still tend to be ex grammar schools.

    Even if you do not have a wholesale return to selection, the uniforms, discipline, house systems, emphasis on excellence of grammars still produces results
    Exactly — ex grammar schools. I.e. haven't been grammar schools for over 40 years.

    Also "houses" are not unique to grammar schools. All my comprehensive schools had houses. And uniforms. And discipline.
    Which is closer to the grammar school model than the model preferred by the left
    You don't have a coherent point here.

    Surely the "grammar school model" is just selection. Otherwise there's no difference from the comprehensive model.
    No, the left oppose uniforms, oppose setting and oppose house systems and are less keen on strict discipline too
    Interestingly, school uniforms are extremely unusual in the US, even though it is a significantly more right wing country than the UK.
    Is it? In some respects, yes, on religion and taxation - although even that can be exaggerated - but on immigration and identity issues it's more liberal.

    It's probably more "classless" too, at least in theory.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728
    Mortimer said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    I had exactly the same experience in Atlanta, but with the door staff at the hotel who at one point seemed to be close to banning me from walking out for my own safety. Needless to say I had a couple of very pleasant walks, though pavement provision isn't the greatest in Southern US cities.
    I was staying with a friend in Oak Park, Illinois one time and said, given that it was a nice day, that I would like to walk up to Michigan Avenue. I was told in no uncertain terms that if I did that I would be killed well before I reached my destination.
    Having traveled the reverse route a couple of times by the Chicago "L" I can believe them - the areas in between are definitely not the nicest..
    That said, I was told the same thing about various DC neighbourhoods. I don't know which, mind.

    But I happened to get lost and wandered into an area I was told not to go to, downtown. Frankly, everyone was nicer to me there than elsewhere....
    Yes, while personal safety can be an issue in the USA, there is a strong sense of racial bias even amongst Liberals about the bad parts of town.

    Chris Arnarde writes and photos very eloquently on the subject.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Arnade
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,101

    Leon said:

    Is moonshine around?


    Obama was on US TV last night. He was asked, in a jocular way, about all this alien nonsense

    Watch how he shifts from amusement to seriousness, as he says Yes, there is weird shit we cannot explain

    https://twitter.com/blakemecakes/status/1394629351698731013?s=20

    Someone in Downing Street should take notes. If they ever need a distraction, they can leak some revelations about the Loch Ness Monster.
    I wouldn't put it past Boris Johnson for him to suggest that not only was the legend true, but that Nessy had found a way of communicating his/her concerns about independence !
    They might have to revise the GERS figures to factor in the cost of Nessie's upkeep.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Off topic, why does Harry find the first amendment "baffling" ?

    Because he's not very bright?

    Because he has been convinced all his life that the UK press are a pack of uncontrolled snarling monsters out to exploit him and his family and he now finds that they are extremely controlled by our libel and other laws compared with the press in the US? A shattering of illusions.
    If only he had a US wife who could have told him what the US Constitution says ........
    He's an embarrassingly stupid man who has no real understanding of just how stupid he is.
    As my mother said at the weekend; he got a B and a D at A level…and one of those was in art
    Confirms Eton is overcharging parents?

    Also, how easy must the entrance exam be? Or has Eton gone all Harrow and let in any kid of rich feckers?
    Ludgrove and Eton both recommended he went to a different school. His grandmother (who appoints the Provost of Eton as her personal representative on the board and therefore has some sway) insisted. She wanted him close - this was shortly after Diana’s death - and she had him round to stay at her pad nearby most weekends
    Connections eh.

    How do we remove this unelected ruler?

    It is an insult to millions of working class kids in the country who do not have these connections and cannot improve their lot in life.
    No, it’s not.
    Yes, it is.
    A private foundation offered a service to a private individual for which it was paid the rack rate.

    I get you might think it’s unfair. But it’s not an insult
    Let's look at things that are "unfair", and adapt the "insult" sentence and see how silly it looks:

    I think it is unfair that some people eat in an expensive restaurant, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people take holidays in the Maldives, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some drive expensive cars, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people live in their own houses, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people buy expensive clothes, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    I think it is unfair that some people go to university, and the fact that they do is an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not etc.

    OK, so probably all who post on here (with the exception of the odd Corbynite nutter), are OK with this unfairness, but probably don't think it is "an insult to the millions of working class kids who do not". But if a parent chooses to privately educate their kids that is somehow different. Illogical.
    That is a mischaracterisation.

    It is unfair that a person of hereditary power uses their birth right to push their progeny into places they are so seemingly unfit for. It is unfair to those without said privilege that this is possible.

    I'm not arguing the fairness of financial inequality, yet....
    I am not sure it is a mischaracterisation . I have come across people who will sneer at people choosing to pay for their children's education while very carefully using their wealth to buy a house in a good catchment, and boasting about the best restaurants, holidays etc. Private education is a choice, like buying an expensive holiday, which is dependent on your disposable cash/income. As for the use of influence, everyone does it for their kids and grandchildren if they can -even the Labour Party seems to like the hereditary principle eg. the Benns, the Sawars and many others!) To suggest old Queeny shouldn't seems a bit unfair.
    I'm not talking about financial disparity although of course that is constituent in inherited power.

    I'm not sure the argument of everyone does it so its is acceptable washes. Do you think that those without inherited power to exploit don't suffer because I know they do and it is unfair.

    I mean Michael Young has hugely influenced my thinking but his actions regarding Toby's further education brought the man down in my estimations. (not that he cares :))
    It was a light hearted way of pointing out that all (or at least most) people will seek to get the best outcomes for their children. "Inherited power" comes in many forms. In a fair(ish) democratic(ish) society it should of course (IMO) be tempered, but wealth is only one form. What about intelligence? Is it unfair that someone such as yourself has the intelligence to think about such things while many others are only interested in Love Island? Do they care? Possibly not. We should continue to push for equality of opportunity, and the best way (again IMO) to do that is to quit fretting about how people spend money on their kids.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,007
    It takes a heart of stone of to laugh

    A spokesman for the company that booked Nigel Farage on a speaking tour for the US reports they have "miscalculated his popularity" after only 21 people turn up to the Pittsburgh Airport Marriott on Monday evening despite tickets being free.

    From https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1394589666775552000
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377

    Leon said:

    Is moonshine around?


    Obama was on US TV last night. He was asked, in a jocular way, about all this alien nonsense

    Watch how he shifts from amusement to seriousness, as he says Yes, there is weird shit we cannot explain

    https://twitter.com/blakemecakes/status/1394629351698731013?s=20

    Someone in Downing Street should take notes. If they ever need a distraction, they can leak some revelations about the Loch Ness Monster.
    I can't believe I'm saying this, but I do now wonder if we are being surveilled by aliens

    An aircraft apparently flying at 9,000mph over Utah

    https://twitter.com/brianjhanley/status/1083171588802052096?s=20


    Video broken down here

    https://twitter.com/deafca7/status/1393344499489857538?s=20

    A similar UAP doing similar things in California

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiVOlb8CmOU

    Is this some huge conspiracy? Have I taken shrooms?
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Ascot going ahead max 4,000/day. No one who didn't buy tickets last year at this stage.

    Royal Ascot will be a poignant affair for Her Majesty. Her first without the Duke of Edinburgh, in all likelihood. It is also a shame it falls the week before 21st June's freedom-ish day.
    I do find the way racecourses have been treated as daft. They are huge outside venues. At the snooker final 900 people were allowed in a 900 seater venue. Ascot is a vast area and could easily take 50,000+ in comfort. 4000 is such a small number, especially when the majority of Ascot is outside.
    A lot of the issues around large sporting events are more to do with getting the crowd in and out, rather than at the event itself. Most of the Ascot crowd will be arriving by train.
    And then the congregating in bars inside the venue.

    The first two cases of Covid in my small hometown was 2 people who went to Cheltenham.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    eek said:

    It takes a heart of stone of to laugh

    A spokesman for the company that booked Nigel Farage on a speaking tour for the US reports they have "miscalculated his popularity" after only 21 people turn up to the Pittsburgh Airport Marriott on Monday evening despite tickets being free.

    From https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1394589666775552000

    Fake News, already debunked. The story was invented by the same guy who concocted the Stupid Brexit Family in France - which was also debunked
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    eek said:

    It takes a heart of stone of to laugh

    A spokesman for the company that booked Nigel Farage on a speaking tour for the US reports they have "miscalculated his popularity" after only 21 people turn up to the Pittsburgh Airport Marriott on Monday evening despite tickets being free.

    From https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1394589666775552000

    Haha. What a shame. The nasty little fascist hasn't worked out one of the first rules of marketing that is if you make something really cheap, people assume it is without value. In this case it was.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    edited May 2021
    Sir Keir's Leadership Approval Ratings since he took over to present (Blue Gross Positives, Orange Net Satisfaction)



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    MaffewMaffew Posts: 235
    eek said:

    It takes a heart of stone of to laugh

    A spokesman for the company that booked Nigel Farage on a speaking tour for the US reports they have "miscalculated his popularity" after only 21 people turn up to the Pittsburgh Airport Marriott on Monday evening despite tickets being free.

    From https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1394589666775552000

    This got picked up on a lawyer's forum and I saw a lot of people on there booked places for their friends. Attendees included:
    Adol Fitler
    Naz Ibusturd
    Hine Rick Himmler
    Fasciti Bellendo
    Brett Zitter
    Saloth Sar
    Al Tright
    Dick Gammon
    JC Junker
    Nigel Isaac Unt
    Hereza Nazeh

    I didn't join in and don't really approve, but I'll admit to a guilty chuckle.
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    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    It takes a heart of stone of to laugh

    A spokesman for the company that booked Nigel Farage on a speaking tour for the US reports they have "miscalculated his popularity" after only 21 people turn up to the Pittsburgh Airport Marriott on Monday evening despite tickets being free.

    From https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1394589666775552000

    Fake News, already debunked. The story was invented by the same guy who concocted the Stupid Brexit Family in France - which was also debunked
    Fake news about a purveyor of fake news. Perhaps a paradox.
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    edited May 2021
    Foxy said:

    Mortimer said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    A couple of years back I took a business trip to Atlanta. My US clients were shocked that I willingly walked the less-than twenty minutes from my hotel to the conference centre every day. Funny old world.
    I had exactly the same experience in Atlanta, but with the door staff at the hotel who at one point seemed to be close to banning me from walking out for my own safety. Needless to say I had a couple of very pleasant walks, though pavement provision isn't the greatest in Southern US cities.
    I was staying with a friend in Oak Park, Illinois one time and said, given that it was a nice day, that I would like to walk up to Michigan Avenue. I was told in no uncertain terms that if I did that I would be killed well before I reached my destination.
    Having traveled the reverse route a couple of times by the Chicago "L" I can believe them - the areas in between are definitely not the nicest..
    That said, I was told the same thing about various DC neighbourhoods. I don't know which, mind.

    But I happened to get lost and wandered into an area I was told not to go to, downtown. Frankly, everyone was nicer to me there than elsewhere....
    Yes, while personal safety can be an issue in the USA, there is a strong sense of racial bias even amongst Liberals about the bad parts of town.

    Chris Arnarde writes and photos very eloquently on the subject.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Arnade
    My best walking incident in the US was arriving storm-delayed at College Station airport at 23:20. I walked out to the taxi rank to see the last taxi pull away just as the facility manager switched off the lights and locked the door to the airport. I asked him how long until the next taxi might be expected, he said there would be no more. So I called my hotel and asked the receptionist how I could walk from the airport to the hotel. It was well less than a mile as the crow flies. She told me I couldn't. Period.

    I told her the situation with the taxis, she said "Hold on" 10 minutes later she showed up in her own car to pick me up.

    Edit: I should add that, once at the hotel, she asked for my phone. She uploaded Uber onto it and told me that was how people got around in College Station.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    That's one hardball attorney.
    Not heard the term 'short-bus people' before, does it refer to the type of transport such folk might need to get to various remedial and therapeutic facilities?

    https://twitter.com/mattshuham/status/1394666856171122692?s=20
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352
    edited May 2021
    rcs1000 said:



    That wasn't my point.

    My point was simply that this isn't a left/right issue in the US.

    So, it's not the case that right wing states (like Texas) have them, and left wing ones (like California) do not.

    In fact, the only government schools in the US that have uniforms that I am aware of are a couple in New York City.

    I don't think it's really a left/right thing anywhere. Growing up on the Continent, I never saw a school uniform, and when I returned to Britain I said the whole idea seemed to me antiquated. I had differing responses from both sides - left-wingers divided between "It's a tax on the poor" and "It prevents rich kids from showing off", and right-wingers divided between "it's a question of discipline" and "it's a question of freedom".

    What I think is utterly iniquitous is the sweetheart deals between schools and shops that say the former will ONLY allow uniforms from the latter, in return for which the shop gives the school some money. I had a local case in Broxtowe where a rival shop offered to produce exactly the same uniform (bar the tiny shop label) at half the price, and was told that children wearing that would be sent home. I took it to the Competition Commission in a joint complaint with a local UKIP lady - they refused to take a view. It seems such an obvious restraint of trade, incompatible with all the opinions on left and right. Where's the free market in that?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    edited May 2021
    Comparison of Sir Keir's first 153 Leadership Approval Ratings with those of Ed Miliband

    The darker colours are their Gross Positives and the lighter shades Net Satisfaction



  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,365

    Selebian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    So the government is considering using force majeure as a means to not implement the NI protocol . So basically an act of God ! More disgraceful behaviour from this cesspit administration. And in other news the U.K. can’t align its food standards to help solve many border issues because it wants to lower them when it decides to throw farmers under a bus when it makes a trade deal with Australia.

    It is remarkable, though not surprising, that in this era of "food miles" and in a country that can't currently feed itself without imports, the Insane Clown posse are prepared to destroy local sheep farming in favour of importing them from the farthest point on the planet.
    Food miles are, if you'll excuse my language, utter bullshit. The amount of oil needed to shift a giant refrigerated ship from NZ to the UK is shockingly little. You'll almost certainly use more (or a leg of lamb basis) bringing it from the store to your home.
    In quaint old England some of us actually walk to the shops and back not using any oil. Imagine that!
    I mock-examined a PhD thesis looking at health/environmental impact of 'active travel' (walking, cycling) which asserted (with evidence - I looked into this part in some detail as I found it hard to believe) that the CO2 emissions from a highly efficient car were lower than walking.

    Relative oil consumption depends, of course, on how you like to take your calories :wink:
    One assumes that they accounted for respiration during the journey? And compared like for like? So 5 mins car = 5 mins respiration whereas 30 min walk = 30 respiration? But the person is still respiring for the 25 minutes that the car journey saves...
    Respiration doesn't increase carbon dioxide levels because the carbon released is part of the carbon cycle. It's the fossil carbon released during food production, or the methane from dairy, rice, beef, etc, that will contribute to GHGs from walking/cycling compared to driving.

    I'd be interested in looking at the numbers.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is moonshine around?


    Obama was on US TV last night. He was asked, in a jocular way, about all this alien nonsense

    Watch how he shifts from amusement to seriousness, as he says Yes, there is weird shit we cannot explain

    https://twitter.com/blakemecakes/status/1394629351698731013?s=20

    Someone in Downing Street should take notes. If they ever need a distraction, they can leak some revelations about the Loch Ness Monster.
    I can't believe I'm saying this, but I do now wonder if we are being surveilled by aliens

    An aircraft apparently flying at 9,000mph over Utah

    https://twitter.com/brianjhanley/status/1083171588802052096?s=20


    Video broken down here

    https://twitter.com/deafca7/status/1393344499489857538?s=20

    A similar UAP doing similar things in California

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiVOlb8CmOU

    Is this some huge conspiracy? Have I taken shrooms?
    Sounds like a possible plot for a really crappy novel
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,877
    dixiedean said:

    Weather discussion on PM right now.

    We should offer @Leon to parts of the world troubled by heat and drought.

    He must be a rain God - the clouds seek him out to worship him and he spreads his watery benevolence where'er he goes.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277
    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    This was Angela Rayner’s first big outing in her new brief. Penny Mordaunt utterly destroyed her. When a politician gets found out like this in the Chamber, it’s brutal.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    It takes a heart of stone of to laugh

    A spokesman for the company that booked Nigel Farage on a speaking tour for the US reports they have "miscalculated his popularity" after only 21 people turn up to the Pittsburgh Airport Marriott on Monday evening despite tickets being free.

    From https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1394589666775552000

    Fake News, already debunked. The story was invented by the same guy who concocted the Stupid Brexit Family in France - which was also debunked
    There's a lot of press about it:

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/nigel-farages-speaking-tour-in-us-flops-247464/

    https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/18/empty-seats-at-farages-comeback-tour-as-people-book-with-no-intention-of-going-14600550/

    And the events certainly match with Eventbrite: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/nigel-farage-americas-comeback-tour-2021-tickets-152442891793
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,363
    Even if Farage only got 21, I fancy it would be more than SKS, knighthood or not.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,790
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    It takes a heart of stone of to laugh

    A spokesman for the company that booked Nigel Farage on a speaking tour for the US reports they have "miscalculated his popularity" after only 21 people turn up to the Pittsburgh Airport Marriott on Monday evening despite tickets being free.

    From https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1394589666775552000

    Fake News, already debunked. The story was invented by the same guy who concocted the Stupid Brexit Family in France - which was also debunked
    There's a lot of press about it:

    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/nigel-farages-speaking-tour-in-us-flops-247464/

    https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/18/empty-seats-at-farages-comeback-tour-as-people-book-with-no-intention-of-going-14600550/

    And the events certainly match with Eventbrite: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/nigel-farage-americas-comeback-tour-2021-tickets-152442891793
    In the Trumpian and post Trumpian era, fake news no longer has to be fake, it just has to be news that someone of a more extremist disposition does not like.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,952

    Even if Farage only got 21, I fancy it would be more than SKS, knighthood or not.

    There were a lot of twitter accounts encouraging people to get free tickets and not turn up, so as to embarrass Farage
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,363
    isam said:

    Even if Farage only got 21, I fancy it would be more than SKS, knighthood or not.

    There were a lot of twitter accounts encouraging people to get free tickets and not turn up, so as to embarrass Farage
    Petty.. but that's the way people are these days...
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is moonshine around?


    Obama was on US TV last night. He was asked, in a jocular way, about all this alien nonsense

    Watch how he shifts from amusement to seriousness, as he says Yes, there is weird shit we cannot explain

    https://twitter.com/blakemecakes/status/1394629351698731013?s=20

    Someone in Downing Street should take notes. If they ever need a distraction, they can leak some revelations about the Loch Ness Monster.
    I can't believe I'm saying this, but I do now wonder if we are being surveilled by aliens

    An aircraft apparently flying at 9,000mph over Utah

    https://twitter.com/brianjhanley/status/1083171588802052096?s=20


    Video broken down here

    https://twitter.com/deafca7/status/1393344499489857538?s=20

    A similar UAP doing similar things in California

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiVOlb8CmOU

    Is this some huge conspiracy? Have I taken shrooms?
    oh dear Leon....
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    IanB2 said:

    Mandatory printing of car registration numbers on all Drive Thru packaging.

    I would like to get all Drive Thru retailers to be required to print car registrations on all take away packaging. Hopefully, to cut down on the amount of litter that is blighting roadsides all over the country.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/580772?fbclid=IwAR3or-1licyDK2gs9ohrc7Jb36vcmcQA4DzyLTRKU0-OwFAV7l_bxH2NdyI

    Who on earth has got time to go through every bit of litter to look for a car registration number?

    Furthermore, are they expecting McDonalds etc to print a reg number on every single bit of packaging for each customer? That's going to take ages.

    Have not thought it through.
    Easy - print a label, stick it on. Stop the feckers littering.
    Genius idea. I would absolutely back that.

This discussion has been closed.