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Chart of the day: What happened in the Batley & Spen constituency at the May 2019 Euro elections – p

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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643

    Branding is very important in politics these days. This "king of the north" brand Burnham has acquired could serve him very well.
    Even though all that peacocking cost lives in the NW, as he dicked about refusing to do the inevitable and lockdown properly.
    Hasn't harmed Boris
    Fair point.
  • Is anyone at all surprised? We need water cannon at least. I was quite surprised at its efficacy when on continental Europe.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,090
    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,064
    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    Because the BLM stuff is presented as a stronger version of anti-racism signalling but parading the Palestinian flag is a partisan political demonstration. We need to get back to no political demos at sport ASAP or there will be a whole heap of trouble.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 43,647

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    Police cars revolving light | NEW: The government scientists wanted Ministers to delay the reopening of pubs for another 5 weeks

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393619427774566403
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,090

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    These people can't see their own privilege. They support "Palestine" like it's a football team playing Manchester United, safe in their nice houses in safe and secure England.

    I'm sure their view would be very different if they lived in Tel Aviv.
    I just want to ask all of them what they think Israel should do. Do they just have some kind of cognitive dissonance over the whole issue of Hamas using densely populated civilian areas to house and fire their rockets?
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 269
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,592

    Is anyone at all surprised? We need water cannon at least. I was quite surprised at its efficacy when on continental Europe.
    Nah, they are quasi ineffective. Or effective but only in a limited and specific way.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512
    edited May 15
    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,090
    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Eh? What are you on about?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,839

    Police have charged 11 people with violent disorder after a fight broke out at Luton Airport.

    Four people were injured, three seriously, in the brawl, which happened in the main departure lounge on Friday morning.

    The 11 men, aged between 20 and 55, were released on bail ahead of a court hearing.

    Five other people were released without charge and another was released on bail with conditions.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-57127034

    I wonder where they were flying to.

    I wonder what they were fighting about.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 269

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15
    AnneJGP said:

    Police have charged 11 people with violent disorder after a fight broke out at Luton Airport.

    Four people were injured, three seriously, in the brawl, which happened in the main departure lounge on Friday morning.

    The 11 men, aged between 20 and 55, were released on bail ahead of a court hearing.

    Five other people were released without charge and another was released on bail with conditions.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-57127034

    I wonder where they were flying to.

    I wonder what they were fighting about.
    Looked like a gang fight. Now if it was two gangs who knew each other, or if it was somebody looked wrong at the other I don't know.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    So it's okay to indiscriminately attack civilians in response to an illegal action?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    You think its that simple .......

    Go read the Hamas charter for starters
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 15,832
    OBSERVER: Johnson ‘must think again on plans to relax Covid rules’ #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393664084361547776/photo/1
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    The end of the estate agent....

    This AI tool writes real estate descriptions without ever stepping inside a home

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/14/tech/ai-real-estate-home-descriptions/index.html
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512
    Floater said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    You think its that simple .......

    Go read the Hamas charter for starters
    This is what Palestine "supporters" think. They think it's all so simple, that it is all so black and white. It never is.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    That wouldn’t stop Hamas, unless you think the whole of Israel is an ‘illegal occupation.’ They want the lot.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 269

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    I can be quite ignorant sometimes. I don't know if Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel, for example. I do however know that it is a major city in Israel and Israel occupies parts of Palestine illegally. What are the Palestinians supposed to do?
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 269
    MaxPB said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Eh? What are you on about?
    Are you saying you're not a Zionist?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    I can be quite ignorant sometimes. I don't know if Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel, for example. I do however know that it is a major city in Israel and Israel occupies parts of Palestine illegally. What are the Palestinians supposed to do?
    Attacking the IDF would be more legitimate than firing rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219
    Scott_xP said:

    OBSERVER: Johnson ‘must think again on plans to relax Covid rules’ #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393664084361547776/photo/1

    Too late for that. They will have to go ahead as it’s much too short a notice to reverse them.

    The key is that they need to go ahead without a rise in cases.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512
    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Eh? What are you on about?
    Are you saying you're not a Zionist?
    I am a Zionist in that I believe Israel has a right to exist. I don't see that as a bad thing, or a controversial thing.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 43,647
    Scott_xP said:

    OBSERVER: Johnson ‘must think again on plans to relax Covid rules’ #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393664084361547776/photo/1

    Yet another SAGE member speaking "in a personal capacity" I bet.

    Why are they continually allowed to do this? If you want to be independent & speak your mind then leave SAGE. It is a collective analyse and advise committee as far as I understand it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,090
    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Eh? What are you on about?
    Are you saying you're not a Zionist?
    I refuse to engage in this line of questioning. You've clearly got a few screws loose and it would be a waste of my time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219
    edited May 15
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    I can be quite ignorant sometimes. I don't know if Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel, for example. I do however know that it is a major city in Israel and Israel occupies parts of Palestine illegally. What are the Palestinians supposed to do?
    The capital of Israel is Jerusalem.

    However, as that is to put it mildly politically sensitive, most countries pretend the capital of Israel is Tel Aviv (which was the capital in the 1940s - the Knesset first met in I think the Tel Aviv cinema) so that is where most embassies are.

    It’s also the main port and the commercial capital.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    OBSERVER: Johnson ‘must think again on plans to relax Covid rules’ #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393664084361547776/photo/1

    Too late for that. They will have to go ahead as it’s much too short a notice to reverse them.

    The key is that they need to go ahead without a rise in cases.
    We know there will be a rise in cases - our firm has had advice that cases are going to go up.

    But, that's not the issue - it is hospitalizations and deaths we need to focus on
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 269

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Eh? What are you on about?
    Are you saying you're not a Zionist?
    I am a Zionist in that I believe Israel has a right to exist. I don't see that as a bad thing, or a controversial thing.
    I was replying to MaxPB not you. It's definately a "thing"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15

    Scott_xP said:

    OBSERVER: Johnson ‘must think again on plans to relax Covid rules’ #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393664084361547776/photo/1

    Yet another SAGE member speaking "in a personal capacity" I bet.

    Why are they continually allowed to do this? If you want to be independent & speak your mind then leave SAGE. It is a collective analyse and advise committee as far as I understand it.
    Media reporting comments by a member of SAGE have become a bit like criticism from "Tory grandee" of Tory policy / "leading member" of Labour party (in relation to criticism of Labour).

    The numbers of people involved across the various committees of SAGE and related groups is very large. Thus getting a dissenting opinion isn't exactly surprising.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,120
    MaxPB said:

    On Israel vs Hamas (and that's what this is, it's not Israel vs Palestine as certain people would like to characterise it) - Hamas are using Palestinian civilians as human shields for their campaign of violence against the state of Israel. Israel has been left with few good choices, it either doesn't retaliate in which case it's open season on Israeli citizens or it bombs Hamas sites which have been strategically placed by Hamas to cause maximum civilian casualties.

    The responsibility of all these civilians deaths lies with Hamas. They have used the people of Palestine as human shields. The Arab world tolerates and encourages this by Hamas because they know it makes Israel look bad. None of them give a fuck about Palestinian civilians, they're all just collateral damage in their never ending war with the very idea and foundation of Israel as a nation.

    How does that explain when Israel snipers murder children in the street?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219
    edited May 15
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    OBSERVER: Johnson ‘must think again on plans to relax Covid rules’ #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393664084361547776/photo/1

    Too late for that. They will have to go ahead as it’s much too short a notice to reverse them.

    The key is that they need to go ahead without a rise in cases.
    We know there will be a rise in cases - our firm has had advice that cases are going to go up.

    But, that's not the issue - it is hospitalizations and deaths we need to focus on
    We don’t know there will be a rise in cases. We all ‘knew’ there would be after the 8th-15th March, and there wasn’t. These relaxations are actually quite minor by comparison.

    There might be a rise, but then again there might not.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Eh? What are you on about?
    Are you saying you're not a Zionist?
    I am a Zionist in that I believe Israel has a right to exist. I don't see that as a bad thing, or a controversial thing.
    I was replying to MaxPB not you. It's definately a "thing"
    I know. But I thought I'd give my opinion anyway.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 269
    ydoethur said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    That wouldn’t stop Hamas, unless you think the whole of Israel is an ‘illegal occupation.’ They want the lot.
    Obviously the whole of Israel is not an illegal occupation. There's this thing called the Balfour declaration or something
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    I think the footballers need a different pose for each and every "Lives Matter" that they should do before each game.

    Is there a way to St David's Star the body for Jewish Lives Matter?

    Is there a way to show a body as cruelly enfeebled as one ought to be to truly represent Palestinian Lives Matter?

    There'd better be a Gay Lives Matter stance already, and I can't wait to try out the Trans Lives Matter one too.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186
    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    On Israel vs Hamas (and that's what this is, it's not Israel vs Palestine as certain people would like to characterise it) - Hamas are using Palestinian civilians as human shields for their campaign of violence against the state of Israel. Israel has been left with few good choices, it either doesn't retaliate in which case it's open season on Israeli citizens or it bombs Hamas sites which have been strategically placed by Hamas to cause maximum civilian casualties.

    The responsibility of all these civilians deaths lies with Hamas. They have used the people of Palestine as human shields. The Arab world tolerates and encourages this by Hamas because they know it makes Israel look bad. None of them give a fuck about Palestinian civilians, they're all just collateral damage in their never ending war with the very idea and foundation of Israel as a nation.

    How does that explain when Israel snipers murder children in the street?
    Evidence please
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,120
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    How does that explain Israel teargasing Mosques in East Jerusalem?
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 269

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    So it's okay to indiscriminately attack civilians in response to an illegal action?
    I am anti-IRA, yes.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 43,647
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    OBSERVER: Johnson ‘must think again on plans to relax Covid rules’ #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393664084361547776/photo/1

    Too late for that. They will have to go ahead as it’s much too short a notice to reverse them.

    The key is that they need to go ahead without a rise in cases.
    We know there will be a rise in cases - our firm has had advice that cases are going to go up.

    But, that's not the issue - it is hospitalizations and deaths we need to focus on
    We don’t know there will be a rise in cases. We all ‘knew’ there would be after the 8th-15th March, and there wasn’t. These relaxations are actually quite minor by comparison.

    There might be a rise, but then again there might not.
    Didn't the same modellers tell us that schools shouldn't be opened back in March? Cases would spike up massively etc etc etc...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512
    JBriskin3 said:

    ydoethur said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    That wouldn’t stop Hamas, unless you think the whole of Israel is an ‘illegal occupation.’ They want the lot.
    Obviously the whole of Israel is not an illegal occupation. There's this thing called the Balfour declaration or something
    I say this with respect, not in malice, but you don't appear to know very much about Israel and Palestine generally, so how can you legitimately form such a firm opinion on the rights and wrongs of each side?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512
    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    How does that explain Israel teargasing Mosques in East Jerusalem?
    Wasn't that to stop riots?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    So it's okay to indiscriminately attack civilians in response to an illegal action?
    I am anti-IRA, yes.
    So you're anti Hamas too, I assume. So is it legitimate for Israel to use violence to target Hamas operatives who are currently firing rockets at Israeli civilians?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,592

    I think the footballers need a different pose for each and every "Lives Matter" that they should do before each game.

    Is there a way to St David's Star the body for Jewish Lives Matter?

    Is there a way to show a body as cruelly enfeebled as one ought to be to truly represent Palestinian Lives Matter?

    There'd better be a Gay Lives Matter stance already, and I can't wait to try out the Trans Lives Matter one too.

    Using that logic, what about Save the Children? Half their funds surely need to go to Save the thirtysomethings.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 269

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    So it's okay to indiscriminately attack civilians in response to an illegal action?
    I am anti-IRA, yes.
    So you're anti Hamas too, I assume. So is it legitimate for Israel to use violence to target Hamas operatives who are currently firing rockets at Israeli civilians?
    I reside in Scotland. Civil wars are dangerous for everyone. It started in Scotland around about, err, say, I don't know - how about 2014. Any more questions?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    So it's okay to indiscriminately attack civilians in response to an illegal action?
    I am anti-IRA, yes.
    So you're anti Hamas too, I assume. So is it legitimate for Israel to use violence to target Hamas operatives who are currently firing rockets at Israeli civilians?
    I reside in Scotland. Civil wars are dangerous for everyone. It started in Scotland around about, err, say, I don't know - how about 2014. Any more questions?
    Well you're busy condemning Israel from your residence in Scotland, so why not Hamas?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,120
    edited May 15
    Floater said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    On Israel vs Hamas (and that's what this is, it's not Israel vs Palestine as certain people would like to characterise it) - Hamas are using Palestinian civilians as human shields for their campaign of violence against the state of Israel. Israel has been left with few good choices, it either doesn't retaliate in which case it's open season on Israeli citizens or it bombs Hamas sites which have been strategically placed by Hamas to cause maximum civilian casualties.

    The responsibility of all these civilians deaths lies with Hamas. They have used the people of Palestine as human shields. The Arab world tolerates and encourages this by Hamas because they know it makes Israel look bad. None of them give a fuck about Palestinian civilians, they're all just collateral damage in their never ending war with the very idea and foundation of Israel as a nation.

    How does that explain when Israel snipers murder children in the street?
    Evidence please
    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20191030-israel-sniper-who-killed-palestinian-child-given-months-community-service/amp/

    One of many examples. The noteworthy thing here being that he was (lightly) punished for it.

    Edit: I picked the first result from Google so no idea if the site is a mad anti-semitic shithole but I remember the incident and they link to all the official docs saying it happened.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219
    JBriskin3 said:

    ydoethur said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    That wouldn’t stop Hamas, unless you think the whole of Israel is an ‘illegal occupation.’ They want the lot.
    Obviously the whole of Israel is not an illegal occupation. There's this thing called the Balfour declaration or something
    The Balfour Declaration of 1917 committed the British Empire to establishing a Jewish state in the Mandate of Palestine after it had been transferred from Ottoman Rule. This meant expanding the pre-existing Jewish colonisation programme.

    I think you are referrring to the UN partition plan of 1947 who proposed given 50% of the land to the Israelis, 50% to the Palestinians, and having Jerusalem and Bethlehem as an international zone.

    This plan was accepted by the Israelis, but not the Arabs, so in 1948 when it was actioned the neighbouring Arab states - Syria, Jordan, Egypt, backed up by Iraq - invaded to impose an all-Arab state on the whole of the former territory.

    Israel instead conquered large areas of the area zoned for the Palestinians, including West Jerusalem, while the Arab states annexed the rest. Until 1980, Egypt (for example) still did not recognise the legality of Israel’s existence. When Sadat conceded that in return for Israel’s withdrawal from Sinai, he was assassinated. I think I’m right in saying Syria still doesn’t recognise Israel as a legitimate state. Certainly Hamas does not, which is one reason why the peace process has collapsed.

    So actually, you are wrong in implying it is ‘obvious’ Israel is not wholly an illegal occupation. There are those who dispute it, for their own reasons admittedly.

    Admittedly, the West Bank is an altogether more vexed question. But that’s not what we were discussing.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 14,787
    If Israel v Palestine is like a football team can I hope both lose?
    Then sack the managers and the boards resign?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512
    Alistair said:

    Floater said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    On Israel vs Hamas (and that's what this is, it's not Israel vs Palestine as certain people would like to characterise it) - Hamas are using Palestinian civilians as human shields for their campaign of violence against the state of Israel. Israel has been left with few good choices, it either doesn't retaliate in which case it's open season on Israeli citizens or it bombs Hamas sites which have been strategically placed by Hamas to cause maximum civilian casualties.

    The responsibility of all these civilians deaths lies with Hamas. They have used the people of Palestine as human shields. The Arab world tolerates and encourages this by Hamas because they know it makes Israel look bad. None of them give a fuck about Palestinian civilians, they're all just collateral damage in their never ending war with the very idea and foundation of Israel as a nation.

    How does that explain when Israel snipers murder children in the street?
    Evidence please
    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20191030-israel-sniper-who-killed-palestinian-child-given-months-community-service/amp/

    One of many examples. The noteworthy thing here being that he was (lightly) punished for it.
    I mean, he was convicted. Clearly the crime isn't taken too seriously, which is obviously very bad, but nobody is pretending Israel are saints. There are just as many extremists in Israel as there are in Palestine.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    OBSERVER: Johnson ‘must think again on plans to relax Covid rules’ #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393664084361547776/photo/1

    Too late for that. They will have to go ahead as it’s much too short a notice to reverse them.

    The key is that they need to go ahead without a rise in cases.
    We know there will be a rise in cases - our firm has had advice that cases are going to go up.

    But, that's not the issue - it is hospitalizations and deaths we need to focus on
    We don’t know there will be a rise in cases. We all ‘knew’ there would be after the 8th-15th March, and there wasn’t. These relaxations are actually quite minor by comparison.

    There might be a rise, but then again there might not.
    Didn't the same modellers tell us that schools shouldn't be opened back in March? Cases would spike up massively etc etc etc...
    Yes. And I thought they were right.

    And they were wrong. And so was I.

    It’s now becoming clear that there wasn’t a large reservoir of dormant cases in the community, which was the killer punch in September. Can’t spread the virus if it isn’t there.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,120

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    How does that explain Israel teargasing Mosques in East Jerusalem?
    Wasn't that to stop riots?
    Ah, the famed evening prayers rioting that happens inside a mosque.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,125

    isam said:

    ping said:

    Anyone else watching the worlds worst game show on bbc 1?

    “I can see your voice”

    Everything about it is awful!

    Try channel328 Sky.. Talking Pictures.. superb channel.
    Some great obscure films and shows on there.

    Has anyone here read ‘Sometimes a Great Notion’? By the author of ‘One flew over the cuckoos Nest’
    Long, long time ago. Lots cutting down trees if I recall right?
    I have just ordered it, so haven’t read. I’d like to see the film which stars Paul Newman, but the DVD is about £30 so haven’t bothered

    My Dad is reading the Eddie Coyle book you recommended. He likes it. I lent it to him before I read it
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,666

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    These people can't see their own privilege. They support "Palestine" like it's a football team playing Manchester United, safe in their nice houses in safe and secure England.

    I'm sure their view would be very different if they lived in Tel Aviv.
    Very well said Gallowgate.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    How does that explain Israel teargasing Mosques in East Jerusalem?
    Wasn't that to stop riots?
    Ah, the famed evening prayers rioting that happens inside a mosque.
    Because Islamists never use mosques for cover and Mosques never incite their followers eh?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    We want million...

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: Push for one million jabs a day to save summer

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393670231181176837?s=20
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 15,832
    TELEGRAPH: Matt Rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393670439965274120/photo/1
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 269
    ydoethur said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    ydoethur said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    That wouldn’t stop Hamas, unless you think the whole of Israel is an ‘illegal occupation.’ They want the lot.
    Obviously the whole of Israel is not an illegal occupation. There's this thing called the Balfour declaration or something
    The Balfour Declaration of 1917 committed the British Empire to establishing a Jewish state in the Mandate of Palestine after it had been transferred from Ottoman Rule. This meant expanding the pre-existing Jewish colonisation programme.

    I think you are referrring to the UN partition plan of 1947 who proposed given 50% of the land to the Israelis, 50% to the Palestinians, and having Jerusalem and Bethlehem as an international zone.

    This plan was accepted by the Israelis, but not the Arabs, so in 1948 when it was actioned the neighbouring Arab states - Syria, Jordan, Egypt, backed up by Iraq - invaded to impose an all-Arab state on the whole of the former territory.

    Israel instead conquered large areas of the area zoned for the Palestinians, including West Jerusalem, while the Arab states annexed the rest. Until 1980, Egypt (for example) still did not recognise the legality of Israel’s existence. When Sadat conceded that in return for Israel’s withdrawal from Sinai, he was assassinated. I think I’m right in saying Syria still doesn’t recognise Israel as a legitimate state. Certainly Hamas does not, which is one reason why the peace process has collapsed.

    So actually, you are wrong in implying it is ‘obvious’ Israel is not wholly an illegal occupation. There are those who dispute it, for their own reasons admittedly.

    Admittedly, the West Bank is an altogether more vexed question. But that’s not what we were discussing.
    I was referring to 1947

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219
    JBriskin3 said:

    ydoethur said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    ydoethur said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    That wouldn’t stop Hamas, unless you think the whole of Israel is an ‘illegal occupation.’ They want the lot.
    Obviously the whole of Israel is not an illegal occupation. There's this thing called the Balfour declaration or something
    The Balfour Declaration of 1917 committed the British Empire to establishing a Jewish state in the Mandate of Palestine after it had been transferred from Ottoman Rule. This meant expanding the pre-existing Jewish colonisation programme.

    I think you are referrring to the UN partition plan of 1947 who proposed given 50% of the land to the Israelis, 50% to the Palestinians, and having Jerusalem and Bethlehem as an international zone.

    This plan was accepted by the Israelis, but not the Arabs, so in 1948 when it was actioned the neighbouring Arab states - Syria, Jordan, Egypt, backed up by Iraq - invaded to impose an all-Arab state on the whole of the former territory.

    Israel instead conquered large areas of the area zoned for the Palestinians, including West Jerusalem, while the Arab states annexed the rest. Until 1980, Egypt (for example) still did not recognise the legality of Israel’s existence. When Sadat conceded that in return for Israel’s withdrawal from Sinai, he was assassinated. I think I’m right in saying Syria still doesn’t recognise Israel as a legitimate state. Certainly Hamas does not, which is one reason why the peace process has collapsed.

    So actually, you are wrong in implying it is ‘obvious’ Israel is not wholly an illegal occupation. There are those who dispute it, for their own reasons admittedly.

    Admittedly, the West Bank is an altogether more vexed question. But that’s not what we were discussing.
    I was referring to 1947

    By which time Balfour had been dead for seventeen years...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,666
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    OBSERVER: Johnson ‘must think again on plans to relax Covid rules’ #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393664084361547776/photo/1

    Too late for that. They will have to go ahead as it’s much too short a notice to reverse them.

    The key is that they need to go ahead without a rise in cases.
    We know there will be a rise in cases - our firm has had advice that cases are going to go up.

    But, that's not the issue - it is hospitalizations and deaths we need to focus on
    We don’t know there will be a rise in cases. We all ‘knew’ there would be after the 8th-15th March, and there wasn’t. These relaxations are actually quite minor by comparison.

    There might be a rise, but then again there might not.
    Didn't the same modellers tell us that schools shouldn't be opened back in March? Cases would spike up massively etc etc etc...
    Yes. And I thought they were right.

    And they were wrong. And so was I.

    It’s now becoming clear that there wasn’t a large reservoir of dormant cases in the community, which was the killer punch in September. Can’t spread the virus if it isn’t there.
    Controversial I know, but I don't think schools alone were that big of a deal in September.

    Instead I think that August holidays, combined with University Freshers Flu were the two big punches. Schools aggrevated that, but had it not been for the August holidays I don't think the schools would have been that much of a problem.

    Schools weren't a big issue last June.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15
    Venmo, which is owned by PayPal, enables simple payments between contacts. Transactions are public by default. They can be made private but contact lists remain visible. Biden’s payments were private. BuzzFeed did not publish names of his contacts.

    Reporters commonly scan Venmo for leads.

    BuzzFeed said it took “less than 10 minutes” to find Biden’s account, “using only a combination of the app’s built-in search tool and public friends feature”.

    “In the process,” it said, it “found nearly a dozen Biden family members and mapped out a social web that encompasses not only the first family but a wide network of people around them, including the president’s children, grandchildren, senior White House officials and all of their contacts on Venmo.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/15/biden-venmo-account-buzzfeed-news-national-security

    Hmmm....that sounds a lot like the sort of tactics media got in trouble for in the recent past.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 43,647
    Telegraph saying that appts for 2nd dose in next ten days should stay as they are, after that any that are longer than 8 weeks should be brought forward.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,002
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    No message yet to invite me for a second jab on Monday. Surely Bozo wasn't spouting shite when he told me yesterday that I'd get it after 8 weeks?

    20 days, 14 hours and 40 minutes between my doses.
    How did you manage that?
    Got invited for first jab slightly early (I'm over 40 in July) as my surgery is running a bit ahead.
    Got Pfizer by luck of the draw on that one, then received message a few days back inviting for second vax which I took up but booked a morning appointment instead of evening.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 269
    ydoethur said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    ydoethur said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    ydoethur said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    That wouldn’t stop Hamas, unless you think the whole of Israel is an ‘illegal occupation.’ They want the lot.
    Obviously the whole of Israel is not an illegal occupation. There's this thing called the Balfour declaration or something
    The Balfour Declaration of 1917 committed the British Empire to establishing a Jewish state in the Mandate of Palestine after it had been transferred from Ottoman Rule. This meant expanding the pre-existing Jewish colonisation programme.

    I think you are referrring to the UN partition plan of 1947 who proposed given 50% of the land to the Israelis, 50% to the Palestinians, and having Jerusalem and Bethlehem as an international zone.

    This plan was accepted by the Israelis, but not the Arabs, so in 1948 when it was actioned the neighbouring Arab states - Syria, Jordan, Egypt, backed up by Iraq - invaded to impose an all-Arab state on the whole of the former territory.

    Israel instead conquered large areas of the area zoned for the Palestinians, including West Jerusalem, while the Arab states annexed the rest. Until 1980, Egypt (for example) still did not recognise the legality of Israel’s existence. When Sadat conceded that in return for Israel’s withdrawal from Sinai, he was assassinated. I think I’m right in saying Syria still doesn’t recognise Israel as a legitimate state. Certainly Hamas does not, which is one reason why the peace process has collapsed.

    So actually, you are wrong in implying it is ‘obvious’ Israel is not wholly an illegal occupation. There are those who dispute it, for their own reasons admittedly.

    Admittedly, the West Bank is an altogether more vexed question. But that’s not what we were discussing.
    I was referring to 1947

    By which time Balfour had been dead for seventeen years...
    Whatever. My key dates are 1688 and 2014
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    OBSERVER: Johnson ‘must think again on plans to relax Covid rules’ #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393664084361547776/photo/1

    Too late for that. They will have to go ahead as it’s much too short a notice to reverse them.

    The key is that they need to go ahead without a rise in cases.
    We know there will be a rise in cases - our firm has had advice that cases are going to go up.

    But, that's not the issue - it is hospitalizations and deaths we need to focus on
    We don’t know there will be a rise in cases. We all ‘knew’ there would be after the 8th-15th March, and there wasn’t. These relaxations are actually quite minor by comparison.

    There might be a rise, but then again there might not.
    Didn't the same modellers tell us that schools shouldn't be opened back in March? Cases would spike up massively etc etc etc...
    Yes. And I thought they were right.

    And they were wrong. And so was I.

    It’s now becoming clear that there wasn’t a large reservoir of dormant cases in the community, which was the killer punch in September. Can’t spread the virus if it isn’t there.
    Controversial I know, but I don't think schools alone were that big of a deal in September.

    Instead I think that August holidays, combined with University Freshers Flu were the two big punches. Schools aggrevated that, but had it not been for the August holidays I don't think the schools would have been that much of a problem.

    Schools weren't a big issue last June.
    Incidence of virus was low, but crucially secondary schools were also not fully open last June. The students were going in in rotas, as were staff.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 29,594
    Looking on the bright side, when these twats can’t find a Catholic or an immigrant to kick fuck out of they turn on each other.

    https://twitter.com/tic1967lisbon/status/1393661668144603142?s=21
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,264
    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Omnium said:

    Charles said:

    Omnium said:

    Floater said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Talking of jabs , I had my second one today and I noticed that all the bays for people to be seated were numbered to 20 but there was no bay 13. I asked why not and was told that there were too many superstitious people. And no 13 bay had had to be removed as people would not sit in it... Jeez.....

    Lots of hotels don’t have floor number 13 (they obviously have a thirteenth floor). There is a measurable difference in room changes and suicides…
    Apparently flying on a Friday 13th is great. Cheaper fares and lots of empty seats.
    My wife freaked out a bit when she found out our new build is going to be number 13......
    Give it a name instead: "not number 13"
    I thought I'd look up why 13 was unlucky following the discussion. No really obvious explanation, and it seems to be lucky in France and Italy.

    Anyway @Floater, it turns out that in number theory it's also a 'happy number', so perhaps that'll cheer your good lady.
    Friday 13 is unlucky because on that day in 1307 the French king arrested the Templars
    Maybe that's really Friday 2nd now though as there were 11 days that went missing in the calendar switch.
    You win the PB Periodical Pedantry Pendent
    *Pendant :wink:
    No, pendent, in the sense of remaining undecided - same root as pending

    😜
    No, must surely be pendant=pennant, flag, in the RN sense.
    So my award for PB Periodical Pedantry has gone from what I imaging as a nice medal (Charles surely wouldn't skimp), via some undefined sort of undecided ragamuffin, and now finishes up as a salt-stained bit of cloth?
    Salt-stained…?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512

    Telegraph saying that appts for 2nd dose in next ten days should stay as they are, after that any that are longer than 8 weeks should be brought forward.

    Next week is week 10 for me, but don't have an appointment yet for Pfizer jab 2. I wonder what will happen...

    Maybe I need to phone GP.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643

    Telegraph saying that appts for 2nd dose in next ten days should stay as they are, after that any that are longer than 8 weeks should be brought forward.

    Maybe I won't have to drive 2hrs to my second dose after all....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 43,647
    I don't see how this brought forward is going to work at my local practice. They are fully booked doing weekend vaccinations with people going exactly 12 weeks to the day after 1st dose. What will happen after 25th May. Those on 12 weeks still need doing plus now anyone who is over 8 weeks.

    Maybe they can squeeze extra capacity in somehow, but based on what I have seen I just dont see it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643

    Telegraph saying that appts for 2nd dose in next ten days should stay as they are, after that any that are longer than 8 weeks should be brought forward.

    Next week is week 10 for me, but don't have an appointment yet for Pfizer jab 2. I wonder what will happen...

    Maybe I need to phone GP.
    Both my parents got theirs via GP and both heard nothing for 10-11 weeks, then all of a sudden they got contacted and was pretty much come tomorrow.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 43,647

    Telegraph saying that appts for 2nd dose in next ten days should stay as they are, after that any that are longer than 8 weeks should be brought forward.

    Next week is week 10 for me, but don't have an appointment yet for Pfizer jab 2. I wonder what will happen...

    Maybe I need to phone GP.
    I can see chaos coming here. Let's hope I am wrong.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    You are aware that Hamas regards no part of Israel as legitimate? When do you think they will stop? When they have driven every last Jew into the sea?

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,616


    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI
    Police cars revolving light | NEW: The government scientists wanted Ministers to delay the reopening of pubs for another 5 weeks

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393619427774566403

    Is that the same 'government scientists' who said masks were a bad idea and who said travel restrictions were not necessary ?

    Or the same 'government scientists' who said opening schools would lead to a large increase in cases ?

    It would be good to have an actual record of which 'government scientist' predicted what to see if they are worth listening to.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    How much would it cost to pay to persuade all but the most committed fighters to leave Palestine for other Arab lands?

    How many peaceful Palestinan families offered say $100k to go and settle in Jordan or Egypt wouldn't take the money and run?

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,264
    Leon said:

    Charles said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    They elected the hamas dickheads
    "elected"

    FFS
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election

    Hamas was elected for a 4 year term in 2006. They didn’t see the need to trouble the voters until April 2021…but those elections were postponed due to COVID
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,238
    Scott_xP said:

    Govt source tells Sunday Times: “It’s very clear that we should have closed the border to India earlier and that Boris did not do so because he didn’t want to offend Modi.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3a8b6ac0-b59e-11eb-a803-dd7acc9bc346?shareToken=1e849dfa3ddf19f2d8d2852476fd8756

    ** In tomorrow's Sunday Telegraph **

    How three days of inaction let the Indian variant take hold in Britain by @PatrickSawer and @lizrob92

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/15/three-days-inaction-let-indian-variant-take-hold-britain/

    Who is leaking this stuff, and why now?

    Where is the leak? No inside information is needed to see that India was not red-listed and that the number of variant cases was rising. All this is openly published.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15
    I would like to see the modelling paper that shows reducing second dose to 10 week gap vs 12 week gap gets you more bang for your buck than just blitzing all the unvaccinated age groups.

    So far plenty of research shows that for Pfizer / Moderna basically the second dose only a small amount to efficacy, especially when you have left it to 10 weeks, it is more about the second dose giving you the boost for long lasting protection.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,616
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    No message yet to invite me for a second jab on Monday. Surely Bozo wasn't spouting shite when he told me yesterday that I'd get it after 8 weeks?

    20 days, 14 hours and 40 minutes between my doses.
    How did you manage that?
    Got invited for first jab slightly early (I'm over 40 in July) as my surgery is running a bit ahead.
    Got Pfizer by luck of the draw on that one, then received message a few days back inviting for second vax which I took up but booked a morning appointment instead of evening.
    Interesting that they gave you the second dose so quickly instead of giving it as a first dose to someone younger.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,477
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    OBSERVER: Johnson ‘must think again on plans to relax Covid rules’ #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393664084361547776/photo/1

    Too late for that. They will have to go ahead as it’s much too short a notice to reverse them.

    The key is that they need to go ahead without a rise in cases.
    We know there will be a rise in cases - our firm has had advice that cases are going to go up.

    But, that's not the issue - it is hospitalizations and deaths we need to focus on
    We don’t know there will be a rise in cases. We all ‘knew’ there would be after the 8th-15th March, and there wasn’t. These relaxations are actually quite minor by comparison.

    There might be a rise, but then again there might not.
    Didn't the same modellers tell us that schools shouldn't be opened back in March? Cases would spike up massively etc etc etc...
    Yes. And I thought they were right.

    And they were wrong. And so was I.

    It’s now becoming clear that there wasn’t a large reservoir of dormant cases in the community, which was the killer punch in September. Can’t spread the virus if it isn’t there.
    Controversial I know, but I don't think schools alone were that big of a deal in September.

    Instead I think that August holidays, combined with University Freshers Flu were the two big punches. Schools aggrevated that, but had it not been for the August holidays I don't think the schools would have been that much of a problem.

    Schools weren't a big issue last June.
    Incidence of virus was low, but crucially secondary schools were also not fully open last June. The students were going in in rotas, as were staff.
    Back to the tweeted front page, it's quite telling that the front page itself doesn't include any juicy quote, just a government advisors stating the obvious (numbers of variant infections likely rise - doesn't even necessarily mean overall number of infections - and unvacinated at more risk). That makes me suspect the headline quote is from a nobody, otherwise they'd surely have led with "big scientist says rethink" in the story instead of all the waffle?
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 269

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    You are aware that Hamas regards no part of Israel as legitimate? When do you think they will stop? When they have driven every last Jew into the sea?

    You are aware that Nippy regards no part of Westminster as legitimate? When do you think they will stop? When they have driven every last Brit/Scot into the sea?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,666
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    You are aware that Hamas regards no part of Israel as legitimate? When do you think they will stop? When they have driven every last Jew into the sea?

    You are aware that Nippy regards no part of Westminster as legitimate? When do you think they will stop? When they have driven every last Brit/Scot into the sea?
    You must be trolling.

    Nippy regards Westminster as legitimate over England at least.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,245
    Sometimes I wonder if the whole world wouldnt be better if all the nuclear countries just went the middle east isnt working...lets sort it permanently. There will never be peace there and which ever side you are on its going to commit atrocities. Sorry to say I have after many years of watching it got to the point of "I no longer care"
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 3,912

    I would like to see the modelling paper that shows reducing second dose to 10 week gap vs 12 week gap gets you more bang for your buck than just blitzing all the unvaccinated age groups.

    So far all the research shows that for Pfizer / Moderna basically the second dose only adds a few % to efficacy, it is more about the second dose giving you the boost for long lasting protection.

    This seems once again to be about the most at risk. Better to ‘fully’ protect them, than hordes of twenty something’s. It’s a judgement I think based on The fear that case rises are inevitable.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,264
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    Hamas believe that the Jews should be wiped from the face of the earth. You’re naive if you believe that ending “illegal occupations” would end the conflict
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15
    Selebian said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    OBSERVER: Johnson ‘must think again on plans to relax Covid rules’ #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1393664084361547776/photo/1

    Too late for that. They will have to go ahead as it’s much too short a notice to reverse them.

    The key is that they need to go ahead without a rise in cases.
    We know there will be a rise in cases - our firm has had advice that cases are going to go up.

    But, that's not the issue - it is hospitalizations and deaths we need to focus on
    We don’t know there will be a rise in cases. We all ‘knew’ there would be after the 8th-15th March, and there wasn’t. These relaxations are actually quite minor by comparison.

    There might be a rise, but then again there might not.
    Didn't the same modellers tell us that schools shouldn't be opened back in March? Cases would spike up massively etc etc etc...
    Yes. And I thought they were right.

    And they were wrong. And so was I.

    It’s now becoming clear that there wasn’t a large reservoir of dormant cases in the community, which was the killer punch in September. Can’t spread the virus if it isn’t there.
    Controversial I know, but I don't think schools alone were that big of a deal in September.

    Instead I think that August holidays, combined with University Freshers Flu were the two big punches. Schools aggrevated that, but had it not been for the August holidays I don't think the schools would have been that much of a problem.

    Schools weren't a big issue last June.
    Incidence of virus was low, but crucially secondary schools were also not fully open last June. The students were going in in rotas, as were staff.
    Back to the tweeted front page, it's quite telling that the front page itself doesn't include any juicy quote, just a government advisors stating the obvious (numbers of variant infections likely rise - doesn't even necessarily mean overall number of infections - and unvacinated at more risk). That makes me suspect the headline quote is from a nobody, otherwise they'd surely have led with "big scientist says rethink" in the story instead of all the waffle?
    The named scientist is Professor Andrew Hayward. He has consistently taken a different public opinion to the government position (some I agree with, some I don't and some turned out to be right, some rubbish).

    I can well imagine he has given a juicy quote as he hasn't pulled punches previously e.g. claiming open schools in March was reckless.

    Opening all schools on 8 March ‘reckless’, NERVTAG scientist tells LBC

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/covid-schools-reopening-8-march-nervtag-sage-scientists-boris-johnson-lockdown/
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 269

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    They should protest Hamas using civilians to shield their rockets.
    Maybe they're protesting against the illegal occupations? In fact; I'm fairly sure they are. Anyway, other than us all getting some good visuals on the old TV, what have you got to say for yourself MaxPB; except for you being a committed zionist?
    Civilians in Tel Aviv are not "occupying" anything, and yet they are subject to rocket attacks.
    They're subject to rocket attacks because Israel engages with illegal occupation. Stop the illegal occupations; conflict over.
    You are aware that Hamas regards no part of Israel as legitimate? When do you think they will stop? When they have driven every last Jew into the sea?

    You are aware that Nippy regards no part of Westminster as legitimate? When do you think they will stop? When they have driven every last Brit/Scot into the sea?
    You must be trolling.

    Nippy regards Westminster as legitimate over England at least.
    Touche. Nice technicality. Y'know some of us Scots have to live in Scotland?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,477
    N Yorks vaccine update - my wife, 35, pfizered today at a local centre that previously (even a week ago when I, 39,was done) only stocked AZN (Max's prediction correct). My 33 year old brother in law is in on Wednesday. Unless this is antivaxxer central, the pace is astonishing.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,616

    I would like to see the modelling paper that shows reducing second dose to 10 week gap vs 12 week gap gets you more bang for your buck than just blitzing all the unvaccinated age groups.

    So far plenty of research shows that for Pfizer / Moderna basically the second dose only a small amount to efficacy, especially when you have left it to 10 weeks, it is more about the second dose giving you the boost for long lasting protection.

    Isn't it mostly AZN for the second doses and so wouldn't be used on the under 40s.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,866
    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    Seems a bit strange to illustrate that tweet with a picture of 'nacho with a flag of Nigeria, for which he plays on the national team.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15

    I would like to see the modelling paper that shows reducing second dose to 10 week gap vs 12 week gap gets you more bang for your buck than just blitzing all the unvaccinated age groups.

    So far plenty of research shows that for Pfizer / Moderna basically the second dose only a small amount to efficacy, especially when you have left it to 10 weeks, it is more about the second dose giving you the boost for long lasting protection.

    Isn't it mostly AZN for the second doses and so wouldn't be used on the under 40s.
    Good point. And they are expecting big deliveries of Pfizer / Moderna any day.

    So perhaps its not an either / or, its a both with an artificial upper limit on under 40s per day as the policy of no AZN for them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 44% (+2)
    LAB: 31% (-6)
    LDEM: 8% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (+3)

    via @OpiniumResearch, 13 - 14 May
    Chgs. w/ 30 Apr

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1393642817487052805

    Starmer must be pulling his hair out, they fire all this incoming at Boris, and the result is Labour vote share falling to absolute floor.
    I imagine recent changes are a reaction to the local election results boosting/reducing the pair of them.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,089
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    So, why is it OK for footballers to virtue signal about BLM, by kneeling and whatever, but it is not OK for them to virtue-signal about Palestine, which is lietrally being sat on until it expires like George Floyd under Derek Chauvin, and is several million rather than 1 person?

    Asking for a moral philosopher

    https://twitter.com/jobellerina/status/1393634919352578060?s=20

    Seems a bit strange to illustrate that tweet with a picture of 'nacho with a flag of Nigeria, for which he plays on the national team.
    Good result today

    Very pleased for all Leicester supporters
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,616
    Selebian said:

    N Yorks vaccine update - my wife, 35, pfizered today at a local centre that previously (even a week ago when I, 39,was done) only stocked AZN (Max's prediction correct). My 33 year old brother in law is in on Wednesday. Unless this is antivaxxer central, the pace is astonishing.

    Max's info about about increased pfizer supplies was very positive.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 43,647

    I would like to see the modelling paper that shows reducing second dose to 10 week gap vs 12 week gap gets you more bang for your buck than just blitzing all the unvaccinated age groups.

    So far plenty of research shows that for Pfizer / Moderna basically the second dose only a small amount to efficacy, especially when you have left it to 10 weeks, it is more about the second dose giving you the boost for long lasting protection.

    iirc Whitty said this decision was not unanimous in the committee. Pretty sure he emphasised that at the presser.

    My personal opinion is that it is introducing potential for chaos into a system that has been near exemplary so far.

    If works, don't try and fix it.
This discussion has been closed.