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Chart of the day: What happened in the Batley & Spen constituency at the May 2019 Euro elections – p

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Comments

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186

    ping said:

    I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh

    Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.

    Well, I have a special connection to Israel. I am Jewish by race and several of members of my extended family fought for the IDF in the Yom Kippur War. So to an extent I am biased.

    Nevertheless, I think it's easy to get on the outrage bus when it comes to Israel and Palestine. Feel free to tell me what you think Israel should do instead, bearing in mind it is a democracy and therefore at the whim of its voters who demand security.
    I must say you hid your right wing nuttiness so well until ping outed you ...........
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,499
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    From Gaza report

    The Israeli military has begun to warn over 4000 residents of Gaza City's premier Al Remal neighborhood to evacuate their towers ahead of a large strike wave and it is the first mass effort to clear a district during this escalation

    residents of Cairo Tower, south Gaza City, receive calls from the Israeli military controllers to evacuate immediately

    Both last 10 mins

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
    It is ethnic cleaning, with a dash of genocide. The Israelis are Serbia and Gaza is Kosovo
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,252

    ping said:

    I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh

    Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.

    Well, I have a special connection to Israel. I am Jewish by race and several of members of my extended family fought for the IDF in the Yom Kippur War. So to an extent I am biased.

    Nevertheless, I think it's easy to get on the outrage bus when it comes to Israel and Palestine. Feel free to tell me what you think Israel should do instead, bearing in mind it is a democracy and therefore at the whim of its voters who demand security.
    One thing I hope they do very swiftly is move to new leadership. But at the moment that’s only going to happen if the courts imprison that dinosaur Netanyahu.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    From Gaza report

    The Israeli military has begun to warn over 4000 residents of Gaza City's premier Al Remal neighborhood to evacuate their towers ahead of a large strike wave and it is the first mass effort to clear a district during this escalation

    residents of Cairo Tower, south Gaza City, receive calls from the Israeli military controllers to evacuate immediately

    Both last 10 mins

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
    It is ethnic cleaning, with a dash of genocide. The Israelis are Serbia and Gaza is Kosovo
    Who is Egypt?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,479
    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    Well yes - not a fan of that either - Guys you are there to play football , not swear allegence to the Queen , virtue signal or fake mourn - just get on with the football
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,252

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    From Gaza report

    The Israeli military has begun to warn over 4000 residents of Gaza City's premier Al Remal neighborhood to evacuate their towers ahead of a large strike wave and it is the first mass effort to clear a district during this escalation

    residents of Cairo Tower, south Gaza City, receive calls from the Israeli military controllers to evacuate immediately

    Both last 10 mins

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
    It is ethnic cleaning, with a dash of genocide. The Israelis are Serbia and Gaza is Kosovo
    Who is Egypt?
    Albania?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,599
    Imagine if in the late 1960s/1970s the British Army had bombed the Falls Road and other areas of West Belfast, with or without warning, because they knew full well that terrorist members of the IRA were hiding out there making bombs to use in NI and on mainland Britain. Would that have been acceptable?

    It seems to me that this is the equivalent of what Israel is doing at the moment, albeit on a wider scale.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,839

    Andy_JS said:

    "Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    The majority of patients recently admitted to Bolton Hospital with coronavirus were eligible for the vaccine, but hadn’t had one

    Via
    @Independent"

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393508763223662592

    Surely there's a strong argument to be made for refusing those who have refused vaccines any public hospital treatment for Covid. Having these idiots spreading it in hospitals is more likely to affect the really vulnerable who HAVE to be in hospital.

    Even if it's too controversial to actually refuse them treatment, publicly and loudly having that argument might persuade some of the selfish gits to get vaxed.
    If this becomes a real trend, ordinary publicity about the fact should persuade some of those who believe themselves immune.

    Also, it shouldn't be described as a worrying trend; why worry about those who aren't concerned about themselves? The worry is for those who cannot receive the vaccine, and for those whose response to the vaccine doesn't protect them enough.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,523

    Somebody said FPT they don't know anyone who has not had a vaccine, but the chances are someone is lying to you.

    I have already lied to one friend (not someone I have met personally for more than a year) and one work colleague (also who I have not met for a year) .

    Don't want to be lied to? don't ask me about my medical history. It is private.

    Perhaps you've had it and are lying to us. Has to be a possibility.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 14,993
    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    Shouldn't they take the knee for the anthem?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,499

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 15

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    I wish you wouldn't pretend that people who are critical of his actions (or potential actions) automatically assume it will be hurting Boris in the polls. Things can matter, or not, irrespective of whether it harms someone politically.

    The very fact he gets minutiae about personal standards wrong is infuriating because it is so petty and needless. Ok, you don't need faultless integrity to be PM, but does he have to take every opportunity to be incompetent over very simple, easy rules about personal standards?
    It's hardly a pretence - many of those obsessed with these petty things quite openly expect, or at least passionately hope, that they will hurt his polling. Since this is politicalbetting.com, not moralisticbetting.com, I like to focus on the political reality that those hopes are a little fanciful. Others are free to take a different view.
    You can focus on the political reality without acting like a child, you know.

    It's fair to highlight that wallpaper-gate has had no political impact and that on the whole, people don't really care, but that doesn't mean people who do highlight these things are "petty" or "obsessed".

    The fact is, rules around donations and benefits in kind are there for a reason. That isn't petty — it's about standards in public life.

    But we all know you're the biggest partisan going who simply cheers for the "blues" regardless of whatever they do, so you carry on.
    Hm, a bit hypocritical considering how your own favourite tactic is to endlessly accuse others of being obsessed if they raise cultural issues that affect the entire country but happen not to matter to you. I also notice in passing that you only direct such observations to those who disagree with you politically, which seems to make you a, er, massive partisan yourself...
    I simply call things out as irrational if I believe that they do not in fact, "affect the entire country" and that the belief is simply an irrational response, based on a misplaced fear.

    You never explain why you think matters such as wallpaper gate are inconsequential, you merely point to the polls and say "HA! Look! It's not important". That doesn't prove that things are important objectively, that just shows that subjectively the population isn't basing their voting preference on it.

    We all know your object is not to have a reasoned argument — your objective is to simply rub people's noses in the fact that "your team" is more popular but we already know "your team" is more popular. It isn't particularly relevant.

    I am not a partisan to any "side". I simply state what I personally think. It just so happens that very few of my personal views align with "your team".
    It isn't particularly relevant.

    On the contrary, in democratic politics there is nothing more relevant than what the voting public considers relevant: their subjectivity determines the objective outcome of political events. Trying to wish that fact away is bound to bring you only frustration.

    I simply call things out as irrational if I believe that they do not in fact, "affect the entire country" and that the belief is simply an irrational response, based on a misplaced fear.

    Wonderful. Likewise, I happen to believe that the moralizing over wallpapergate et al. is irrational, and am 'calling it out' (ghastly phrase) on exactly the same basis. The fact that the elections happened to prove me resoundingly correct in that view is just a side bonus.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,475
    Floater said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    Which polling company was this? Trying to find the details.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/05/15/boris-johnson-would-secure-122-seat-majority-called-snap-general/
    I've used up my allocation of free articles with the Telegraph. Which polling company is it?
  • isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    I suspect many of the supporters are British.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,499
    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,891
    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    Not as weird as when Germans and Austrians have poppies stitched on their shirts.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,841
    Cases by specimen date

    image
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    I wish you wouldn't pretend that people who are critical of his actions (or potential actions) automatically assume it will be hurting Boris in the polls. Things can matter, or not, irrespective of whether it harms someone politically.

    The very fact he gets minutiae about personal standards wrong is infuriating because it is so petty and needless. Ok, you don't need faultless integrity to be PM, but does he have to take every opportunity to be incompetent over very simple, easy rules about personal standards?
    It's hardly a pretence - many of those obsessed with these petty things quite openly expect, or at least passionately hope, that they will hurt his polling. Since this is politicalbetting.com, not moralisticbetting.com, I like to focus on the political reality that those hopes are a little fanciful. Others are free to take a different view.
    You can focus on the political reality without acting like a child, you know.

    It's fair to highlight that wallpaper-gate has had no political impact and that on the whole, people don't really care, but that doesn't mean people who do highlight these things are "petty" or "obsessed".

    The fact is, rules around donations and benefits in kind are there for a reason. That isn't petty — it's about standards in public life.

    But we all know you're the biggest partisan going who simply cheers for the "blues" regardless of whatever they do, so you carry on.
    Hm, a bit hypocritical considering how your own favourite tactic is to endlessly accuse others of being obsessed if they raise cultural issues that affect the entire country but happen not to matter to you. I also notice in passing that you only direct such observations to those who disagree with you politically, which seems to make you a, er, massive partisan yourself...
    I simply call things out as irrational if I believe that they do not in fact, "affect the entire country" and that the belief is simply an irrational response, based on a misplaced fear.

    You never explain why you think matters such as wallpaper gate are inconsequential, you merely point to the polls and say "HA! Look! It's not important". That doesn't prove that things are important objectively, that just shows that subjectively the population isn't basing their voting preference on it.

    We all know your object is not to have a reasoned argument — your objective is to simply rub people's noses in the fact that "your team" is more popular but we already know "your team" is more popular. It isn't particularly relevant.

    I am not a partisan to any "side". I simply state what I personally think. It just so happens that very few of my personal views align with "your team".
    It isn't particularly relevant.

    On the contrary, in democratic politics there is nothing more relevant than what the voting public considers relevant: their subjectivity determines the objective outcome of political events. Trying to wish that fact away is bound to bring you only frustration.

    I simply call things out as irrational if I believe that they do not in fact, "affect the entire country" and that the belief is simply an irrational response, based on a misplaced fear.

    Wonderful. Likewise, I happen to believe that the moralizing over wallpapergate is irrational, and am 'calling it out' (ghastly phrase) on exactly the same basis. The fact that the elections happened to prove me resoundingly correct in that view is just a side bonus.
    You keep trying to equate everything with electoral performance. When I disagree with you on whether something is important or not, I don't really care if the majority in the country share the same view as you. You may care, but that doesn't change my view.

    People have given you reasons on why they don't think moralising over wallpapergate is irrational. You haven't addressed any of those arguments, you just point to the polls.

    Feel free to give us an idea of what level of "scandal" it would take for you to decide that something is important, even if the public on the whole didn't. I'll wait.

    If Boris Johnson was caught redhanded accepting a clear bribe in exchange for a favour, would you criticise that, or would you point to the polls and gloat? I'm genuinely interested.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 7,106
    edited May 15
    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    Possibly, but Boris's well of political capital seems bottomless. Trump's 'I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody' seems more applicable to him.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,841
    UK cases summary

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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 29,608
    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    In Glasgow it's stopping the fcukers singing GSTQ continuously after the match that's the problem

    https://twitter.com/AlanJZycinski/status/1393575002046439425?s=20
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528
    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    No it isn't
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,841
    UK Hospitals

    image
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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,841
    UK deaths

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,841
    UK R

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  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 298



    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.

    TEST

    I see once again the separatists are full of solutions
  • isamisam Posts: 38,131
    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    It’s a good way of seeing if it works!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    A few weeks time and we will have millions as everybody rushes abroad for summer sunshine and brings back COVID along with the usual increased risk of skin cancer after been burned like a bad BBQ, a load of STIs...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,841
    Age related data

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,615

    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    In Glasgow it's stopping the fcukers singing GSTQ continuously after the match that's the problem

    https://twitter.com/AlanJZycinski/status/1393575002046439425?s=20

    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    In Glasgow it's stopping the fcukers singing GSTQ continuously after the match that's the problem

    https://twitter.com/AlanJZycinski/status/1393575002046439425?s=20
    Indian variant, what's that?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,252

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    It’s not whether they’re trying to. In fact, Israel does try to avoid civilian casualties. Hence these warnings.

    The problem is that between Hamas’ ruthless, cynical and despicable use of human shields and the IDF’s own determination to hit at them whether they’re trying to do it or not, they’re succeeding.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,841
    Age related data scaled to 100K per age group

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  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 167
    On Batley and Spen, whilst the tories gained few seats in West Yorkshire in GE 2019, the majorities weren't that big for how Brexity the area is. Could be many Asian/Muslim voters in the area voted for Brexit but are loyal to Labour.

    Would it help the Tories chances if they had a (qualified of course) Muslim candidate? Not that they should aselect candidate simply because they are the right religion ofcourse, I'm just thinking out loud.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,841
    UK vaccinations

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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,124
    I have maintained this from the onset
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    It’s not whether they’re trying to. In fact, Israel does try to avoid civilian casualties. Hence these warnings.

    The problem is that between Hamas’ ruthless, cynical and despicable use of human shields and the IDF’s own determination to hit at them whether they’re trying to do it or not, they’re succeeding.
    I don't disagree with you at all. However Twitter is showing how dangerous it is again with this conflict — simple one-sided statements and photos being retweeted over and over again without any critique or context. Videos of apartment buildings being demolished next to death figures, implying a link, with no context that said apartment building was empty at the time.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 167

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    They are not trying they are simply doing it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528

    The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
    I doubt it
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 14,819

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    A few weeks time and we will have millions as everybody rushes abroad for summer sunshine and brings back COVID along with the usual increased risk of skin cancer after been burned like a bad BBQ, a load of STIs...
    Summat to look forward to at least.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,124

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    No it isn't
    And were the returnees UK residents and if so how can you stop them coming home
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,841
    CFR

    image
    image
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15

    The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
    I doubt it
    It happened previously, there was media outrage and the clubs then gave bans.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528
    Nunu3 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    They are not trying they are simply doing it.
    As I keep asking, what do you expect Israel to do instead?
  • isamisam Posts: 38,131
    A Green surge could absolutely kill Labour, and I reckon it is coming. The Corbynites & the centrists are at war - look on twitter & all they do is slag each other off and point at polls where one is doing or did better than the other. They seem less concerned about the Tories.

    There’s no way the Corbyn activists are going to campaign for, or even vote for the new management; they’ll go Green and split the left wing vote.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528
    edited May 15

    The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
    I doubt it
    It happened previously, there was media outrage and the clubs then gave bans.
    "Look at these dickheads" is not the same as "ban these dickheads", at least from my perspective. I am no fan of cancel-culture.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 298



    In Glasgow it's stopping the fcukers singing GSTQ continuously after the match that's the problem

    https://twitter.com/AlanJZycinski/status/1393575002046439425?s=20

    I'd rather GSTQ sang in Scotland than whatever the SF theme tune is
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 298
    JBriskin3 said:



    In Glasgow it's stopping the fcukers singing GSTQ continuously after the match that's the problem

    https://twitter.com/AlanJZycinski/status/1393575002046439425?s=20

    I'd rather GSTQ sang in Scotland than whatever the SF theme tune is
    Tick Tock perhaps?

    https://youtu.be/iP6XpLQM2Cs
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15

    The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
    I doubt it
    It happened previously, there was media outrage and the clubs then gave bans.
    "Look at these dickheads" is not the same as "ban these dickheads", at least from my perspective. I am no fan of cancel-culture.
    If I remember correctly Colchester banned fans. I can't remember if Millwall and Derby did in the end, but there was 1000s of lines of media coverage of this and lots of calls for anybody booing this is basically a racist and therefore should be considered similar to other racist gestures at football are dealt with.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,854
    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    They play The Star Spangled Banner before every MLS game in the US.

    Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,854
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    They play The Star Spangled Banner before every MLS game in the US.

    Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
    Intriguingly, MLS games between two Canadian sides don't start with the Canadian national anthem.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528

    The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
    I doubt it
    It happened previously, there was media outrage and the clubs then gave bans.
    "Look at these dickheads" is not the same as "ban these dickheads", at least from my perspective. I am no fan of cancel-culture.
    If I remember correctly Colchester banned fans. I can't remember if Millwall and Derby did in the end, but there was 1000s of lines of media coverage of this.
    Aye — but that's private organisations taking their own view, isn't it? I'd love to see a media article calling for the fans to be banned as a result. I've tried to Google but I couldn't find anything.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,615
    JBriskin3 said:



    In Glasgow it's stopping the fcukers singing GSTQ continuously after the match that's the problem

    https://twitter.com/AlanJZycinski/status/1393575002046439425?s=20

    I'd rather GSTQ sang in Scotland than whatever the SF theme tune is
    Er, the problem is rather the singing en masse. They could be singing Kimigayo or Here we go Looby Loo, would be just as much a problem covid-wise..
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    They play The Star Spangled Banner before every MLS game in the US.

    Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
    If we started doing that here, and I commented saying I thought it was stupid, no doubt I'd be accused of being a woke Britain hater.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    ping said:

    I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh

    Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.

    Well, I have a special connection to Israel. I am Jewish by race and several of members of my extended family fought for the IDF in the Yom Kippur War. So to an extent I am biased.

    Nevertheless, I think it's easy to get on the outrage bus when it comes to Israel and Palestine. Feel free to tell me what you think Israel should do instead, bearing in mind it is a democracy and therefore at the whim of its voters who demand security.
    Ah, so in this case the opinions of voters do override the (rather substantial) competing claims of morality? And partisan allegiances are not a thing to be casually disowned?

    As it happens, I agree with you about Israel's position. That's the value of intellectual consistency.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,496

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    They play The Star Spangled Banner before every MLS game in the US.

    Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
    If we started doing that here, and I commented saying I thought it was stupid, no doubt I'd be accused of being a woke Britain hater.
    But you do the equivalent when someone questions BLM at football matches. You essentially accuse them of being an out and out racist.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15

    The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
    I doubt it
    It happened previously, there was media outrage and the clubs then gave bans.
    "Look at these dickheads" is not the same as "ban these dickheads", at least from my perspective. I am no fan of cancel-culture.
    If I remember correctly Colchester banned fans. I can't remember if Millwall and Derby did in the end, but there was 1000s of lines of media coverage of this.
    Aye — but that's private organisations taking their own view, isn't it? I'd love to see a media article calling for the fans to be banned as a result. I've tried to Google but I couldn't find anything.
    "Like many others, I view what happened at The Den on Saturday as racist. If you willfully disrespect a gesture that is in solidarity with an anti-racism movement, in support of the empowerment of a racial group, then you stand accused of racism."

    The FA had the ability to issue Millwall with a stadium ban: in fact their regulations set that as the standard penalty, but they chose to fine them and put in place educational measures.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/millwall-fans-booing-will-feel-vindicated-by-stopping-players-taking-a-knee-b222831.html

    -----------

    It’s ironic, because the club had seemingly anticipated opposition from the fans before Saturday’s match – the first time crowds had been allowed back in English football stadiums since the Black Lives Matter protests took off this year – by expressing their continued support for players taking the knee.

    Saturday’s boo-ers were mainly season ticket holders with names, addresses and seat numbers, who presumably could easily be identified by CCTV, and upon whom, if the club were so minded, they could impose bans and suspensions. The club could have acted firmly in solidarity with their black players by recommitting their wholehearted support for the taking of the knee. Instead, Millwall have behaved not like the lions on their club crest, but like chickens; and in doing so have sent out a message that the views of racist fans are more important than the sentiments of their black players and black fans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/10/stopping-players-taking-the-knee-millwall-racists-victory

    There are loads of pieces like these.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528
    edited May 15

    ping said:

    I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh

    Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.

    Well, I have a special connection to Israel. I am Jewish by race and several of members of my extended family fought for the IDF in the Yom Kippur War. So to an extent I am biased.

    Nevertheless, I think it's easy to get on the outrage bus when it comes to Israel and Palestine. Feel free to tell me what you think Israel should do instead, bearing in mind it is a democracy and therefore at the whim of its voters who demand security.
    Ah, so in this case the opinions of voters do override the (rather substantial) competing claims of morality? And partisan allegiances are not a thing to be casually disowned?

    As it happens, I agree with you about Israel's position. That's the value of intellectual consistency.
    Come on now. I'm not saying Israel is right to do what they're doing, I'm merely arguing that realistically there's not another option open to them.

    If you read my posts, you'd know full well that my view on morality is not black and white anyway, apart from when it comes to football.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,496
    isam said:

    A Green surge could absolutely kill Labour, and I reckon it is coming. The Corbynites & the centrists are at war - look on twitter & all they do is slag each other off and point at polls where one is doing or did better than the other. They seem less concerned about the Tories.

    There’s no way the Corbyn activists are going to campaign for, or even vote for the new management; they’ll go Green and split the left wing vote.

    I think that is spot on. There is a natural fissure line in Labour’s vote - the socially conservative, WWC goes Conservative, the educated urban types go Green. Sheffield and Bristol are possible harbingers to come. In a number of cities, Labour’s hold on the Bangladeshi / Pakistani vote will help protect it but there is a question for how long.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    Is Boris our Berlusconi?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    They play The Star Spangled Banner before every MLS game in the US.

    Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
    If we started doing that here, and I commented saying I thought it was stupid, no doubt I'd be accused of being a woke Britain hater.
    But you do the equivalent when someone questions BLM at football matches. You essentially accuse them of being an out and out racist.
    Except I don't. Some people just interpreted my criticism of, in my opinion, their irrational belief as accusing them of being "racist".
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 298
    Carnyx said:



    Er, the problem is rather the singing en masse. They could be singing Kimigayo or Here we go Looby Loo, would be just as much a problem covid-wise..

    They're in the fresh air. A loss-less season is something to be proud of. They partied hard when they got the league with no major consequences.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188

    Is Boris our Berlusconi?

    Borisconi might be quite the nickname..
  • isamisam Posts: 38,131
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    They play The Star Spangled Banner before every MLS game in the US.

    Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
    Yes a bit odd for sure

    It’s a bit odd in any non international game in my book. I guess they do it at the FA Cup because a member of the Royal Family is there. But I’d scrap it
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,124

    Is Boris our Berlusconi?

    No - Boris is just Boris

    And quite unique
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,124
    Leicester upping it a bit

    I hope they win this
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,475

    isam said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
    In Glasgow it's stopping the fcukers singing GSTQ continuously after the match that's the problem

    https://twitter.com/AlanJZycinski/status/1393575002046439425?s=20
    The anthem is for everyone not just the players.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,615
    JBriskin3 said:

    Carnyx said:



    Er, the problem is rather the singing en masse. They could be singing Kimigayo or Here we go Looby Loo, would be just as much a problem covid-wise..

    They're in the fresh air. A loss-less season is something to be proud of. They partied hard when they got the league with no major consequences.
    With that sort of density and with them singing their heads off? And the possibly highly infectious Indian variant? Not for me, thanks.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    MrEd said:
    When I have heard his justifications for his million dollar man salary they are laughable.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528

    The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
    I doubt it
    It happened previously, there was media outrage and the clubs then gave bans.
    "Look at these dickheads" is not the same as "ban these dickheads", at least from my perspective. I am no fan of cancel-culture.
    If I remember correctly Colchester banned fans. I can't remember if Millwall and Derby did in the end, but there was 1000s of lines of media coverage of this.
    Aye — but that's private organisations taking their own view, isn't it? I'd love to see a media article calling for the fans to be banned as a result. I've tried to Google but I couldn't find anything.
    "Like many others, I view what happened at The Den on Saturday as racist. If you willfully disrespect a gesture that is in solidarity with an anti-racism movement, in support of the empowerment of a racial group, then you stand accused of racism."

    The FA had the ability to issue Millwall with a stadium ban: in fact their regulations set that as the standard penalty, but they chose to fine them and put in place educational measures.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/millwall-fans-booing-will-feel-vindicated-by-stopping-players-taking-a-knee-b222831.html

    -----------

    It’s ironic, because the club had seemingly anticipated opposition from the fans before Saturday’s match – the first time crowds had been allowed back in English football stadiums since the Black Lives Matter protests took off this year – by expressing their continued support for players taking the knee.

    Saturday’s boo-ers were mainly season ticket holders with names, addresses and seat numbers, who presumably could easily be identified by CCTV, and upon whom, if the club were so minded, they could impose bans and suspensions. The club could have acted firmly in solidarity with their black players by recommitting their wholehearted support for the taking of the knee. Instead, Millwall have behaved not like the lions on their club crest, but like chickens; and in doing so have sent out a message that the views of racist fans are more important than the sentiments of their black players and black fans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/10/stopping-players-taking-the-knee-millwall-racists-victory

    There are loads of pieces like these.
    I'm not sure I agree with you that these pieces are examples of the media "calling for bans". It's merely some in the media criticising.

    Nevertheless, like I said, I don't agree with banning people for this. I still think they're dickheads though.
  • pingping Posts: 1,300
    I think Leicester can win this.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15

    The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
    I doubt it
    It happened previously, there was media outrage and the clubs then gave bans.
    "Look at these dickheads" is not the same as "ban these dickheads", at least from my perspective. I am no fan of cancel-culture.
    If I remember correctly Colchester banned fans. I can't remember if Millwall and Derby did in the end, but there was 1000s of lines of media coverage of this.
    Aye — but that's private organisations taking their own view, isn't it? I'd love to see a media article calling for the fans to be banned as a result. I've tried to Google but I couldn't find anything.
    "Like many others, I view what happened at The Den on Saturday as racist. If you willfully disrespect a gesture that is in solidarity with an anti-racism movement, in support of the empowerment of a racial group, then you stand accused of racism."

    The FA had the ability to issue Millwall with a stadium ban: in fact their regulations set that as the standard penalty, but they chose to fine them and put in place educational measures.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/millwall-fans-booing-will-feel-vindicated-by-stopping-players-taking-a-knee-b222831.html

    -----------

    It’s ironic, because the club had seemingly anticipated opposition from the fans before Saturday’s match – the first time crowds had been allowed back in English football stadiums since the Black Lives Matter protests took off this year – by expressing their continued support for players taking the knee.

    Saturday’s boo-ers were mainly season ticket holders with names, addresses and seat numbers, who presumably could easily be identified by CCTV, and upon whom, if the club were so minded, they could impose bans and suspensions. The club could have acted firmly in solidarity with their black players by recommitting their wholehearted support for the taking of the knee. Instead, Millwall have behaved not like the lions on their club crest, but like chickens; and in doing so have sent out a message that the views of racist fans are more important than the sentiments of their black players and black fans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/10/stopping-players-taking-the-knee-millwall-racists-victory

    There are loads of pieces like these.
    I'm not sure I agree with you that these pieces are examples of the media "calling for bans". It's merely some in the media criticising.

    Nevertheless, like I said, I don't agree with banning people for this. I still think they're dickheads though.
    Oh come on. The second specifically calls for a ban. It says they know who are they, they could ban them, they didn't, thus were bad.

    The coverage of this story was significant and always with the slant / supporting comments from those who claimed it is a sign of racism and should be dealt with as such. It was clear that many in the media framed it this way.

    Same as BT are using a particular lobby, I mean charity, group, who have a very specific slant / political outlook, in their coverage of online abuse.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,688

    A few weeks time and we will have millions as everybody rushes abroad for summer sunshine and brings back COVID along with the usual increased risk of skin cancer after been burned like a bad BBQ, a load of STIs...

    It's almost inevitable given the current case numbers than the Indian variants won't even be the most worrying ones by the end of the summer. It's people going to an as yet unknown country picking up a strain that may not exist yet that will be the problem in the autumn and winter.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,375

    Chris said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Well, they warned the AP. I had assumed they didn't warn everyone in the building. If they did, I rather wonder what was the point of destroying it.

    "Dear Mr Palestinian Militant. Please note that we shall be destroying the building where you are in three hours' time. This is to give you due notice, so that there is no chance of our action killing anyone who is actually relevant to the conflict. We want to make absolutely sure we just pointlessly destroy people's homes and press offices, while achieving precisely nothing."

    I mean, I thought it was stupid, but you make it sound absolutely moronic.

    It is moronic. But like I said, what are they supposed to do instead?
    Ground offensive? That may very well be coming.
    "We must do something. This is something. It is moronic. ..."
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,096
    What a goal.....!!
  • pingping Posts: 1,300
    edited May 15
    Fantastic goal!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,124
    Great goal Leicester
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188

    Is Boris our Berlusconi?

    No - Boris is just Boris

    And quite unique
    He's definitely unique, but I think he's more like an English Silvio than an English Donald, who he's so often unfairly twinned with.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,124

    Is Boris our Berlusconi?

    No - Boris is just Boris

    And quite unique
    He's definitely unique, but I think he's more like an English Silvio than an English Donald, who he's so often unfairly twinned with.
    He is neither

    He is just Boris
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,617
    ping said:

    I think Leicester can win this.

    Screamer
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 298
    ping said:

    I think Leicester can win this.

    Chelsea 0 Leicester 1

    I do agree
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643

    Great goal Leicester

    I've seen better in Sunday League.....at least that how's it told in the pub after ;-)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,260

    Nunu3 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    They are not trying they are simply doing it.
    As I keep asking, what do you expect Israel to do instead?
    Damned if I know how to bring peace to the Middle East. Maybe that's why I've never joined a political party. In most ways, Israel is the best country in the region. It's a democracy with religious freedom, political freedom, sexual freedom. But, well, the last couple of days show the but.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    glw said:

    A few weeks time and we will have millions as everybody rushes abroad for summer sunshine and brings back COVID along with the usual increased risk of skin cancer after been burned like a bad BBQ, a load of STIs...

    It's almost inevitable given the current case numbers than the Indian variants won't even be the most worrying ones by the end of the summer. It's people going to an as yet unknown country picking up a strain that may not exist yet that will be the problem in the autumn and winter.
    Well last summer saw Spanish variant imported and led to autumn surge.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,475
    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    "Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    Voting intention poll:

    CON: 43% (-2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    LD: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 9% (+6)
    REF: 2% (-)

    [Their seat estimate]
    CON: 386 (+21)
    LAB: 172 (-31)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LD: 9 (-2)
    GRN: 2 (+1)
    OTH: 23 (+1)

    Tory majority of 122 seats.

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK"

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1393615235999801352
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15
    How dare somebody raise issues with gender in a video seminar about gender feminism and the law...

    Female student, 29, who said 'women have vaginas' and are 'not as strong as men' faces disciplinary action by university after fellow classmates complained about the 'offensive and discriminatory' comments

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9581035/Law-student-29-said-women-vaginas-faces-disciplinary-action-university.html
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,124
    edited May 15
    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    "Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    Voting intention poll:

    CON: 43% (-2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    LD: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 9% (+6)
    REF: 2% (-)

    [Their seat estimate]
    CON: 386 (+21)
    LAB: 172 (-31)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LD: 9 (-2)
    GRN: 2 (+1)
    OTH: 23 (+1)

    Tory majority of 122 seats.

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK"

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1393615235999801352

    And look at the greens

    They are a real threat to labour and lib dems
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    A quick google, there is very little information about these people. Anybody have any info?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,272
    edited May 15
    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    If we do end up in another lockdown with pubs, restaurants and shops closed public retribution on those deemed responsible will be swift and merciless.

    At the moment in seems to me that the anti-vaxers and Boris's India decision are in the frame. Boris will be in real trouble if it appears to have been caused allowing travel from India for a full 3 weeks after banning it from neighbouring Pakistan and Banglasdesh. There was no logical reason for delay other than Boris's planned trade trip to India which was cancelled in the end anyway. Even at the time the decision to dither and delay was inexplicable to many.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,528
    Lab + Green on 39% is pretty decent really, although obviously not from a FPTP perspective.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,475

    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    A quick google, there is very little information about these people. Anybody have any info?
    They must be reliable because they're affiliated in some way to ElectoralCalculus.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    tlg86 said:
    "but club insists stars are 'entitled to their views".....but I suspect only certain views.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    A quick google, there is very little information about these people. Anybody have any info?
    They must be reliable because they're affiliated in some way to ElectoralCalculus.
    Oh to be clear not trying to imply they were unreliable, just interested to know who they are, what they are about e.g. are they a start-up from pollsters from another company, are they an established pollster in another country and branded as this for UK, etc?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,475
    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    Every time a new variant has emerged, Johnson has decided to give people in the country in question a few days to get back to the UK before the ban came into force.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,217

    tlg86 said:
    "but club insists stars are 'entitled to their views".....but I suspect only certain views.
    Calling the Prime Minister a c***, acceptable. Calling out genocide in China, not acceptable.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,688

    glw said:

    A few weeks time and we will have millions as everybody rushes abroad for summer sunshine and brings back COVID along with the usual increased risk of skin cancer after been burned like a bad BBQ, a load of STIs...

    It's almost inevitable given the current case numbers than the Indian variants won't even be the most worrying ones by the end of the summer. It's people going to an as yet unknown country picking up a strain that may not exist yet that will be the problem in the autumn and winter.
    Well last summer saw Spanish variant imported and led to autumn surge.
    Yes, but all I'm saying is that given the record case levels there are likely worse strains coming along, and by the time we identify them it will be too late to stop them being imported. Until the case levels drop significantly on a global basis we are going to see new variants of concern arise quite frequently.
This discussion has been closed.