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Chart of the day: What happened in the Batley & Spen constituency at the May 2019 Euro elections – p

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Comments

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,732
    Like the new dress?
    https://youtu.be/czJJtsIhgHY
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,300
    Root out for 99.
    Put Yorks in a decent position.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,475


    Universal Basic Income to be tested in Wales.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57120354

    Drakeford, in a convoluted sentence, is quoted as saying:

    "We need to make an early start on designing the pilot to make sure that we have the best chance of operating a pilot that allows us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

    Well ... err ... the point of a pilot study is to test things and to find out things.

    Not to "allow us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

    There is no point to such a pilot study.

    Universal income is a really terrible idea IMO. It'll make people dependent on the government.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251


    Universal Basic Income to be tested in Wales.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57120354

    Drakeford, in a convoluted sentence, is quoted as saying:

    "We need to make an early start on designing the pilot to make sure that we have the best chance of operating a pilot that allows us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

    Well ... err ... the point of a pilot study is to test things and to find out things.

    Not to "allow us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

    There is no point to such a pilot study.

    I like the idea. It is unfortunate Drakeford is running the pilot, thus it will undoubtedly have been fully discredited by the end of week one.
    TSE and Leon will be fully supportive though.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    Nigelb said:

    Root out for 99.
    Put Yorks in a decent position.

    Classic Root.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 5,965


    Universal Basic Income to be tested in Wales.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57120354

    Drakeford, in a convoluted sentence, is quoted as saying:

    "We need to make an early start on designing the pilot to make sure that we have the best chance of operating a pilot that allows us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

    Well ... err ... the point of a pilot study is to test things and to find out things.

    Not to "allow us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

    There is no point to such a pilot study.

    I like the idea. It is unfortunate Drakeford is running the pilot, thus it will undoubtedly have been fully discredited by the end of week one.
    I am happy with pilot studies that have been instigated in a spirit of genuine inquiry to find something out or to test something.

    A pilot study designed to "allow us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see" is not worth running.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,475

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My lying is usually restricted to a very few special circumstances, almost all related to leaving the house. Now. Please.

    Not about how skirts, dresses or slacks make a certain person's arse look?
    These days the traditional diplomatic answer is as likely to be wrong. "What do you mean it doesn't?"
    Its a no win answer. I just say I plead the 5th.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186
    From Gaza report

    The Israeli military has begun to warn over 4000 residents of Gaza City's premier Al Remal neighborhood to evacuate their towers ahead of a large strike wave and it is the first mass effort to clear a district during this escalation

    residents of Cairo Tower, south Gaza City, receive calls from the Israeli military controllers to evacuate immediately

    Both last 10 mins
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    stodge said:

    MaxPB said:


    Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?

    That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
    Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
    There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...

    I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.

    *Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
    Yes, I remember a bizarre (but possibly true) article saying that yoga/wellness types were disproportionately disposed to antivaxism.
    I don’t know a single person who is not taking the vaccine. Not one.

    This time last year, I knew a whole batch. But they’ve all had it by now.
    Did you escort them? :)
    Does PB’s appetite for bad taste never end?
    Would you ask a football team to stop playing football?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,199

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,837
    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Somebody said FPT they don't know anyone who has not had a vaccine, but the chances are someone is lying to you.

    I have already lied to one friend (not someone I have met personally for more than a year) and one work colleague (also who I have not met for a year) .

    Don't want to be lied to? don't ask me about my medical history. It is private.

    You share it on here.
    I suppose I am naive in thinking my identity is not generally known.
    Well, I would certainly agree with your first five words.

    I’m more surprised by your frank admission that you lie when it suits you. Yes, that confirms what most of us thought, but most people are careful about admitting their dishonesty.
    So, what you're saying is that most people lie about their lying?

    Someone who doesn't lie about their lying (if your earlier supposition is correct) is therefore more, rather than less, honest.
    But if you lie about lying, presumably you always tell the truth ... I always lie
    Which part of Crete are you from?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Your back - that was quick :wink:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,475
    "A health minister has defended the delay in shutting Britain's borders with India as the Government comes under fire for 'inexplicable delays' in reacting to the spread of the deadly variant abroad.

    Edward Argar said the decision to keep India off the 'red list' until April 23, two weeks after its neighbours Pakistan and Bangladesh were added, was 'based on evidence'.

    By that point, 122 cases of the rapidly-spreading variant had already entered the UK from abroad."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9581687/Health-minister-Edward-Argar-defends-delay-shutting-Britains-borders-India.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251

    Nigelb said:

    Root out for 99.
    Put Yorks in a decent position.

    Classic Root.
    99. That’s nearly as many as Middlesex’s entire XI managed.

    We need a tropical rainstorm at Lord’s, now!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,732
    Andy_JS said:


    Universal Basic Income to be tested in Wales.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57120354

    Drakeford, in a convoluted sentence, is quoted as saying:

    "We need to make an early start on designing the pilot to make sure that we have the best chance of operating a pilot that allows us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

    Well ... err ... the point of a pilot study is to test things and to find out things.

    Not to "allow us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

    There is no point to such a pilot study.

    Universal income is a really terrible idea IMO. It'll make people dependent on the government.
    Means tested benefits already make people dependent on the state.

    A proper UBI would cut the dependency. But I expect it won't be anything of the sort done by Labour and instead just another means tested benefit in which case it will trap people even more in dependency.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251
    Floater said:

    From Gaza report

    The Israeli military has begun to warn over 4000 residents of Gaza City's premier Al Remal neighborhood to evacuate their towers ahead of a large strike wave and it is the first mass effort to clear a district during this escalation

    residents of Cairo Tower, south Gaza City, receive calls from the Israeli military controllers to evacuate immediately

    Both last 10 mins

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,600
    Andy_JS said:


    Universal Basic Income to be tested in Wales.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57120354

    Drakeford, in a convoluted sentence, is quoted as saying:

    "We need to make an early start on designing the pilot to make sure that we have the best chance of operating a pilot that allows us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

    Well ... err ... the point of a pilot study is to test things and to find out things.

    Not to "allow us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

    There is no point to such a pilot study.

    Universal income is a really terrible idea IMO. It'll make people dependent on the government.
    If you think we arent all dependent on the government try living in somewhere like Mogadishu.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 4,156
    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    By my maths the projection adds up to just under 92% of the vote. In the circumstances it feels important to know where the other 8% went because it could make all the difference to how the balance of votes go. Any ideas?

    Yorkshire Party, UKIP and Eng Dem:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_and_the_Humber_(European_Parliament_constituency)#Election_results
    Thanks. I don't know where their votes would go, but I don't suppose the centre left is the destination. It helps make it look a quite even split.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15
    The biggest problem with UBI is that politicians will get involved....

    For UBI to stand any chance of working properly you have to set it at the appropriate level where you can't just sit on your arse for life living comfortably, but it is a proper safety net. Furthermore, you can't also have a massive range of other benefits on top of it.

    All the academic work is based on there is a single payment at a particular level, which is your safety net.

    The problem is there will be edge cases and there are large regional variations in cost of living etc. So what will soon happen is media stories about such and such terrible case that despite UBI they rely on food banks and live in a shed.

    Then politicians will come along and say ok what we need is a top up for such and such a group of people.

    Then rinse and repeat.

    And before you know, just like Gordon Brown did with his target of eliminating poverty, you end up back where you started with this network of extra top-ups, bonuses and other schemes and there will then be edge cases the other way where people are receiving large UBI++++ incomes.

    And that every look at UBI says it is eye wateringly expensive even if you choose quite low numbers for the guaranteed income, and that is before you end up with the political meddling which will soon add in all these extras.

    AND...lastly....you can't just give everybody in the country UBI, otherwise you just become a massive immigrant hotspot. So then either have to make immigration much more rigid, have very strict control of your borders and / or be very strict on who receives it. It will soon become unaffordable even if you say well people who have been here for a few years working.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,064
    Andy_JS said:


    Universal Basic Income to be tested in Wales.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57120354

    Drakeford, in a convoluted sentence, is quoted as saying:

    "We need to make an early start on designing the pilot to make sure that we have the best chance of operating a pilot that allows us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

    Well ... err ... the point of a pilot study is to test things and to find out things.

    Not to "allow us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

    There is no point to such a pilot study.

    Universal income is a really terrible idea IMO. It'll make people dependent on the government.
    Depends how it is done. Can remove poverty trap and also disconnects safety net and income redistribution from parasitic bureaucracy and reduces leverage of quangos. Id does require a strong consensus on the principles and ground-rules to prevent unscrupulous politicians inventing new benefits for short term popularity so that it becomes one more welfare benefit. If level is linked to GDP it increases stake in society.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,887

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My lying is usually restricted to a very few special circumstances, almost all related to leaving the house. Now. Please.

    Not about how skirts, dresses or slacks make a certain person's arse look?
    These days the traditional diplomatic answer is as likely to be wrong. "What do you mean it doesn't?"
    Its a no win answer. I just say I plead the 5th.
    The correct answer is always "you look gorgeous".
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,513
    Andy_JS said:

    "Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    The majority of patients recently admitted to Bolton Hospital with coronavirus were eligible for the vaccine, but hadn’t had one

    Via
    @Independent"

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393508763223662592

    fools
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251
    Foxy said:

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My lying is usually restricted to a very few special circumstances, almost all related to leaving the house. Now. Please.

    Not about how skirts, dresses or slacks make a certain person's arse look?
    These days the traditional diplomatic answer is as likely to be wrong. "What do you mean it doesn't?"
    Its a no win answer. I just say I plead the 5th.
    The correct answer is always "you look gorgeous".
    Surely, ‘you always look gorgeous?’
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 15

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds.
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
  • pingping Posts: 1,300
    edited May 15
    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,479
    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,600

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    First half will be dull anyway, tune in from 6.15.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915
    edited May 15

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    I wish you wouldn't pretend that people who are critical of his actions (or potential actions) automatically assume it will be hurting Boris in the polls. Things can matter, or not, irrespective of whether it harms someone politically.

    The very fact he gets minutiae about personal standards wrong is infuriating because it is so petty and needless. Ok, you don't need faultless integrity to be PM, but does he have to take every opportunity to be incompetent over very simple, easy rules about personal standards?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251
    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence.

    It’s barely an existence at all.

    What the hell happens to them now I have no idea. Those buildings won’t be rebuilt. Israel won’t let the concrete in. They were making bricks out of furnace cinders even before this. Their water supply is unusable. Their food is limited. Their rulers are complete lunatics, Bin Laden without the charm.

    And Egypt won’t let them in.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 723
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    And another one going to be hit shortly

    The Mushtaha tower is the building in Gaza that the IDF has announced to bomb and destroy in a few minutes.

    Has Netanyahu actually lost what passes for his mind?
    It would be no surprise if Hamas did have personnel running about in the building, its standard practice to co-locate in civilian or high profile locations in the hope that it offers a measure of protection. The problem is we don't know if that is true and therefore a military target or the Israelis felt that disruption of reporting is to their benefit.

    The Israelis have stepped into an attempt to take out a large amount Hamas figures and C3 facilities but strangely seem not to be actually attacking Hamas formations, presumably because they have split and there is nothing suitable to go after.

    The reality is they really could have done better regarding Al Aqsa at the start, a really bad look in how that was handled.

    What also is curious how Hamas havent seemed to try to target Israeli military facilities of which there are plenty within range, it largely seems to be attacks on population centres and some on civil infrastructure.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds.
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    The big difference in the polling is again Labour's number. Since Christmas, the Tories have been on ~42-43 type range, but the big different is Labour number is varies anywhere between 30 and 36. I personally don't believe they would get anywhere near as low as 30, even with old Brittas in charge.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,697

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds.
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    Loving the fragmented left idea. Regarding Scotland specifically the pattern ladst weeks would not support that as in several of the Tory seats - including Dumfriess the Cons held on quite well.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 4,156
    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    All people living in Bolton have been invited to get a Covid jab today as the race is on to tackle the spread of the Indian variant - but scientists warn Britain's vaccination drive might not stop the rise in cases.

    Britons of all ages were invited to 'visit the vaccine bus' - with medics promising to 'find a reason to vaccinate' everyone over the age of 18.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9582129/Anyone-living-Bolton-invited-Covid-jab-5pm-today.html
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,513

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds.
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    As usual, just nothing but immature nonsense from you. Standards don't matter because the public don't care, apparently. That's your view and it's contemptible.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188

    rcs1000 said:

    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My lying is usually restricted to a very few special circumstances, almost all related to leaving the house. Now. Please.

    Not about how skirts, dresses or slacks make a certain person's arse look?
    I'm usually happy to tell (a slightly modified) version of the truth in those circumstances. Unless we're already running late.
    Does this dress make my arse look big?

    No. Your arse is big.
    Reminds me of a joke I think I heard on an episode of Modern Family..

    Research has shown that women with bigger behinds live longer.

    Men who tell them that.. don't
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,697

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds.
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    As usual, just nothing but immature nonsense from you. Standards don't matter because the public don't care, apparently. That's your view and it's contemptible.
    You're quite wrong there. The public take politics more seriously than those who worry about wallpaper.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251
    edited May 15
    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    There are those who try to reach out. I met and spoke with many of them in 2016. One group who run a non-sectarian football league. Others who campaign for better healthcare.

    But unfortunately they are drowned out in the moderation stakes by those who want either (a) Israel or (b) don’t give a shit what happens to their neighbours as long as they’re not being shot at.

    The latter suddenly being a minority behind the hardliners.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,513
    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,697
    edited May 15
    Interesting data about polling and students. Only the blues and greens getting positives.

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393505231984644096/photo/1
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,513
    felix said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds.
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    As usual, just nothing but immature nonsense from you. Standards don't matter because the public don't care, apparently. That's your view and it's contemptible.
    You're quite wrong there. The public take politics more seriously than those who worry about wallpaper.
    And more immature nonsense from you as well. You know full well it isn't "worrying about wallpaper". it's about loans and donations being properly declared. Like I said — contemptible.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,210
    That’s a remarkable stat about Vardy appearing in every round of the FA Cup (including qualifying rounds) in his career.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Which would be a fair comment - had the Israeli government not started the demonstrations by going with a highly illegal land grab. Again.

    Actions have consequences.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,732
    edited May 15
    ydoethur said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence.

    It’s barely an existence at all.

    What the hell happens to them now I have no idea. Those buildings won’t be rebuilt. Israel won’t let the concrete in. They were making bricks out of furnace cinders even before this. Their water supply is unusable. Their food is limited. Their rulers are complete lunatics, Bin Laden without the charm.

    And Egypt won’t let them in.
    Which is ironic as of course Israel took the land off Egypt.

    There is an argument to be had that no Palestinian state will ever work and that the people and land should be returned to Egypt and Jordan, which of course is who Israel seized it from.

    But they don't want that headache!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,837
    edited May 15

    All people living in Bolton have been invited to get a Covid jab today as the race is on to tackle the spread of the Indian variant - but scientists warn Britain's vaccination drive might not stop the rise in cases.

    Britons of all ages were invited to 'visit the vaccine bus' - with medics promising to 'find a reason to vaccinate' everyone over the age of 18.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9582129/Anyone-living-Bolton-invited-Covid-jab-5pm-today.html

    Cases may well be falling already.... Note (again) that the increase is in the unvaccinated categories...

    image
    image
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,513
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Which would be a fair comment - had the Israeli government not started the demonstrations by going with a highly illegal land grab. Again.

    Actions have consequences.
    Yeah — the consequences are that the Hamas reaction gets buildings in Gaza blown to bits.

    Hamas rockets are not going to stop Israeli settlements. All Hamas are doing are sacrificing lives of those in Gaza in a PR campaign.

    Reminder that a 2 state solution was offered and rejected by Palestine.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    Andy_JS said:

    "Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    The majority of patients recently admitted to Bolton Hospital with coronavirus were eligible for the vaccine, but hadn’t had one

    Via
    @Independent"

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393508763223662592

    Surely there's a strong argument to be made for refusing those who have refused vaccines any public hospital treatment for Covid. Having these idiots spreading it in hospitals is more likely to affect the really vulnerable who HAVE to be in hospital.

    Even if it's too controversial to actually refuse them treatment, publicly and loudly having that argument might persuade some of the selfish gits to get vaxed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,837
    The deaths-to-age stats are unavailable. Again. PHE data feed issue.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251

    ydoethur said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence.

    It’s barely an existence at all.

    What the hell happens to them now I have no idea. Those buildings won’t be rebuilt. Israel won’t let the concrete in. They were making bricks out of furnace cinders even before this. Their water supply is unusable. Their food is limited. Their rulers are complete lunatics, Bin Laden without the charm.

    And Egypt won’t let them in.
    Which is ironic as of course Israel took the land off Israel.

    There is an argument to be had that no Palestinian state will ever work and that the people and land should be returned to Egypt and Jordan, which of course is who Israel seized it from.

    But they don't want that headache!
    It’s even worse, because in 1948 Egypt and Jordan seized the land from the Palestinians as part of their anti-Israeli invasion.

    If only they hadn’t done that...
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 15
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    I wish you wouldn't pretend that people who are critical of his actions (or potential actions) automatically assume it will be hurting Boris in the polls. Things can matter, or not, irrespective of whether it harms someone politically.

    The very fact he gets minutiae about personal standards wrong is infuriating because it is so petty and needless. Ok, you don't need faultless integrity to be PM, but does he have to take every opportunity to be incompetent over very simple, easy rules about personal standards?
    It's hardly a pretence - many of those obsessed with these petty things quite openly expect, or at least passionately hope, that they will hurt his polling, though I recognize you may be different. Since this is politicalbetting.com, not moralisticbetting.com, I like to focus on the political reality that those hopes are a little fanciful. Others are free to take a different view.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,697

    felix said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds.
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    As usual, just nothing but immature nonsense from you. Standards don't matter because the public don't care, apparently. That's your view and it's contemptible.
    You're quite wrong there. The public take politics more seriously than those who worry about wallpaper.
    And more immature nonsense from you as well. You know full well it isn't "worrying about wallpaper". it's about loans and donations being properly declared. Like I said — contemptible.
    Lashing out and abuse. Quel surprise!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,732
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Which would be a fair comment - had the Israeli government not started the demonstrations by going with a highly illegal land grab. Again.

    Actions have consequences.
    What illegal land grab?

    Israel grabbed land off Egypt and Jordan 54 years ago. I wasn't aware of any grabs since then.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Israel is in the position of strength (despite admittedly being surrounded by enemies and very real threats) and so I think it is natural that many of us will have a natural inclination to be more sympathetic to the plight particularly of normal Palestinians. But despite the internal politics at play and actions that should be criticised Israel is in a continuously dangerous position, so the actions have to be seen in that light.

    No one actually seems to want peace, with mutually exclusive goals at the fore, so it all seems so utterly hopeless.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,075
    edited May 15
    FPT:
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    MaxPB said:


    Not really, who is going to campaign for endless lockdown because a few black and Muslim people have refused the vaccine?

    That's a bit lazy. I know there are white people who are also refusing the vaccine. It's been my experience illness and stupidity are quite capable of crossing all barriers.
    Anti-vaxxers in America seem to be tied in with the alt-right, Trumpsky lot. Is the same sort of thing true here, which would link to Brexiteers? There's no obvious connection between the two issues but if they are promoted on the same sites...
    There seem to be a series of groups across the spectrum - there are quite a few of the Goop* type middle class ant-vaxers out there. The vaccines would damage their connection to Gaia etc...

    I don't know the Brexiter types, so can't say.

    *Which is worse than some of the grimdark in 40K, IMHO.... The horror.... the horror...
    It's always easier to go for a one or a couple of groups than make a critique across the piece.

    Witness similarly those going for Poots on the basis of 'Young Earth Creationist", who haven't gone for Muslims who mainly believe in 'creation ex nihilo' or Hindus and Reincarnation.

    I'm nto aware that Poots has ever let his YEC affect his political policies - if he attempts to shoehorn it into the curriculum history segment, that would be a little different.
    Science, surely?

    The development of YEC through a combination of religious evangelism and Darwinian challenges is a legitimate area of study in history
    I agree with that - though presumably it could potentially be both. There are bizarre publications by religious fundamentalists in all kind of areas.

    It's always interesting to see who goes for who.

    The Michael Reiss imbroglio at the Royal Society in 2008 was an interesting counterpoint.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,513

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    I wish you wouldn't pretend that people who are critical of his actions (or potential actions) automatically assume it will be hurting Boris in the polls. Things can matter, or not, irrespective of whether it harms someone politically.

    The very fact he gets minutiae about personal standards wrong is infuriating because it is so petty and needless. Ok, you don't need faultless integrity to be PM, but does he have to take every opportunity to be incompetent over very simple, easy rules about personal standards?
    It's hardly a pretence - many of those obsessed with these petty things quite openly expect, or at least passionately hope, that they will hurt his polling. Since this is politicalbetting.com, not moralisticbetting.com, I like to focus on the political reality that those hopes are a little fanciful. Others are free to take a different view.
    You can focus on the political reality without acting like a child, you know.

    It's fair to highlight that wallpaper-gate has had no political impact and that on the whole, people don't really care, but that doesn't mean people who do highlight these things are "petty" or "obsessed".

    The fact is, rules around donations and benefits in kind are there for a reason. That isn't petty — it's about standards in public life.

    But we all know you're the biggest partisan going who simply cheers for the "blues" regardless of whatever they do, so you carry on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Which would be a fair comment - had the Israeli government not started the demonstrations by going with a highly illegal land grab. Again.

    Actions have consequences.
    What illegal land grab?

    Israel grabbed land off Egypt and Jordan 54 years ago. I wasn't aware of any grabs since then.
    They’re trying to evict more Palestinians from East Jerusalem and give the land to Israeli settlers.

    This whole disaster began with protests ahead of a Supreme Court ruling on what amounts to a confiscation of Palestinian homes, and a heavy-handed Israeli response.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,513
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds.
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    As usual, just nothing but immature nonsense from you. Standards don't matter because the public don't care, apparently. That's your view and it's contemptible.
    You're quite wrong there. The public take politics more seriously than those who worry about wallpaper.
    And more immature nonsense from you as well. You know full well it isn't "worrying about wallpaper". it's about loans and donations being properly declared. Like I said — contemptible.
    Lashing out and abuse. Quel surprise!
    When you belittle with comments such as "petty" and "obsessed", what do you expect?

    Reap what you sow.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915
    edited May 15
    felix said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds.
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    As usual, just nothing but immature nonsense from you. Standards don't matter because the public don't care, apparently. That's your view and it's contemptible.
    You're quite wrong there. The public take politics more seriously than those who worry about wallpaper.
    Public officials declaring things properly is important. I don't understand why that is seen as a partisan position.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Which would be a fair comment - had the Israeli government not started the demonstrations by going with a highly illegal land grab. Again.

    Actions have consequences.
    Yeah — the consequences are that the Hamas reaction gets buildings in Gaza blown to bits.

    Hamas rockets are not going to stop Israeli settlements. All Hamas are doing are sacrificing lives of those in Gaza in a PR campaign.

    Reminder that a 2 state solution was offered and rejected by Palestine.
    Hamas only want one state.

    And they don’t care who gets hurt or killed it trying to achieve it.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 2,697
    AnneJGP said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Sizeable turnout of several hundred people in the square outside the railway station in support of Palestine. How much is simply a 'but the kids' human reaction and how much is a bit more politicised than that, I don't know.

    Which railway station?
    My usual haunt of Huddersfield. Obviously a sizeable Muslim community here, and I've seen demos of this type before, but it did seem rather bigger, at least 400 or so, maybe significantly more.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    I wish you wouldn't pretend that people who are critical of his actions (or potential actions) automatically assume it will be hurting Boris in the polls. Things can matter, or not, irrespective of whether it harms someone politically.

    The very fact he gets minutiae about personal standards wrong is infuriating because it is so petty and needless. Ok, you don't need faultless integrity to be PM, but does he have to take every opportunity to be incompetent over very simple, easy rules about personal standards?
    It's hardly a pretence - many of those obsessed with these petty things quite openly expect, or at least passionately hope, that they will hurt his polling, though I recognize you may be different. Since this is politicalbetting.com, not moralisticbetting.com, I like to focus on the political reality that those hopes are a little fanciful. Others are free to take a different view.
    Some do hope it, some expect it, but I don't think the latter is as many as you think. Even Scott was clear he didn't think the holiday thing would affect things.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,075
    edited May 15
    Thanks for header.

    The contrast of the numbers above to the result in the 2019 GE is startling:

    Vote share

    Party % share

    Labour 42.7%
    Conservative 36.0%
    Heavy Woollen District Independents 12.2%
    Liberal Democrat 4.7%
    The Brexit Party 3.2%
    Green 1.3%
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds.
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    As usual, just nothing but immature nonsense from you. Standards don't matter because the public don't care, apparently. That's your view and it's contemptible.
    Once again, the number of people who confuse the spheres of politics and moral philosophy and analyse them as if they were one and the same is truly astounding. How many votes is Gallowgate's moral outrage worth? Not very many.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,513
    edited May 15

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds.
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    As usual, just nothing but immature nonsense from you. Standards don't matter because the public don't care, apparently. That's your view and it's contemptible.
    Once again, the number of people who confuse the spheres of politics and moral philosophy and analyse them as if they were one and the same is truly astounding. How many votes is Gallowgate's moral outrage worth? Not very many.
    For some reason you think everything is about trying to win votes. I'm not trying to win any votes — I'm simply telling you what I think.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,596

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds.
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    Well, thank Christ there isn't an election any time soon then, otherwise we'd all be fucked.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,256

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Lord Mountbatten's diaries are being withheld to cover-up RAF air strikes on Dublin tower blocks?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Lord Mountbatten's diaries are being withheld to cover-up RAF air strikes on Dublin tower blocks?
    It’s not the air strikes. It’s how much they missed by that’s embarrassing.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,256
    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Israel is in the position of strength (despite admittedly being surrounded by enemies and very real threats) and so I think it is natural that many of us will have a natural inclination to be more sympathetic to the plight particularly of normal Palestinians. But despite the internal politics at play and actions that should be criticised Israel is in a continuously dangerous position, so the actions have to be seen in that light.

    No one actually seems to want peace, with mutually exclusive goals at the fore, so it all seems so utterly hopeless.
    Both sides want victory, and hope peace will follow.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,479

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Lord Mountbatten's diaries are being withheld to cover-up RAF air strikes on Dublin tower blocks?
    Surely if the reason is known why they are being withheld it is not a cover up?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 1,914

    AND...lastly....you can't just give everybody in the country UBI, otherwise you just become a massive immigrant hotspot. So then either have to make immigration much more rigid, have very strict control of your borders and / or be very strict on who receives it. It will soon become unaffordable even if you say well people who have been here for a few years working.

    Of course if you don't give it to everyone it isn't universal, at which point the whole point of it becomes moot as it's just another means-tested benefit in essence.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Israel is in the position of strength (despite admittedly being surrounded by enemies and very real threats) and so I think it is natural that many of us will have a natural inclination to be more sympathetic to the plight particularly of normal Palestinians. But despite the internal politics at play and actions that should be criticised Israel is in a continuously dangerous position, so the actions have to be seen in that light.

    No one actually seems to want peace, with mutually exclusive goals at the fore, so it all seems so utterly hopeless.
    Both sides want victory, and hope peace will follow.
    I think actually both sides are students of Roman military doctrines as expounded by Calgacus:

    ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 29,606

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,479
    Pleasing to see mask wearing is being ignored in the Cup final crowd by many . What is the rational for a presumably mask edict for an outside event ? Totally ridiculous
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,075
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Israel is in the position of strength (despite admittedly being surrounded by enemies and very real threats) and so I think it is natural that many of us will have a natural inclination to be more sympathetic to the plight particularly of normal Palestinians. But despite the internal politics at play and actions that should be criticised Israel is in a continuously dangerous position, so the actions have to be seen in that light.

    No one actually seems to want peace, with mutually exclusive goals at the fore, so it all seems so utterly hopeless.
    Both sides want victory, and hope peace will follow.
    I think actually both sides are students of Roman military doctrines as expounded by Calgacus:

    ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant.
    Google's first reference to that is from Asterix...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251

    Pleasing to see mask wearing is being ignored in the Cup final crowd by many . What is the rational for a presumably mask edict for an outside event ? Totally ridiculous

    FTFY :smile:

    The problem is not that masks don’t help. They likely do, in certain settings. The problem is our lords and masters are going fucking crazy over them as though they are a panacea. Which they’re clearly not.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds
    The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North

    Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"

    I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
    Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
    Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
    Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1393569436838342656

    Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds
    The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3


    The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3

    Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
    I wish you wouldn't pretend that people who are critical of his actions (or potential actions) automatically assume it will be hurting Boris in the polls. Things can matter, or not, irrespective of whether it harms someone politically.

    The very fact he gets minutiae about personal standards wrong is infuriating because it is so petty and needless. Ok, you don't need faultless integrity to be PM, but does he have to take every opportunity to be incompetent over very simple, easy rules about personal standards?
    It's hardly a pretence - many of those obsessed with these petty things quite openly expect, or at least passionately hope, that they will hurt his polling. Since this is politicalbetting.com, not moralisticbetting.com, I like to focus on the political reality that those hopes are a little fanciful. Others are free to take a different view.
    You can focus on the political reality without acting like a child, you know.

    It's fair to highlight that wallpaper-gate has had no political impact and that on the whole, people don't really care, but that doesn't mean people who do highlight these things are "petty" or "obsessed".

    The fact is, rules around donations and benefits in kind are there for a reason. That isn't petty — it's about standards in public life.

    But we all know you're the biggest partisan going who simply cheers for the "blues" regardless of whatever they do, so you carry on.
    Hm, a bit hypocritical considering how your own favourite tactic is to endlessly accuse others of being obsessed if they raise cultural issues that affect the entire country but happen not to matter to you. I also notice in passing that you only direct such observations to those who disagree with you politically, which seems to make you a, er, massive partisan yourself...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Israel is in the position of strength (despite admittedly being surrounded by enemies and very real threats) and so I think it is natural that many of us will have a natural inclination to be more sympathetic to the plight particularly of normal Palestinians. But despite the internal politics at play and actions that should be criticised Israel is in a continuously dangerous position, so the actions have to be seen in that light.

    No one actually seems to want peace, with mutually exclusive goals at the fore, so it all seems so utterly hopeless.
    Both sides want victory, and hope peace will follow.
    I think actually both sides are students of Roman military doctrines as expounded by Calgacus:

    ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant.
    Google's first reference to that is from Asterix...
    Well, I suppose that’s modern culture for you!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,513

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915
    edited May 15
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Israel is in the position of strength (despite admittedly being surrounded by enemies and very real threats) and so I think it is natural that many of us will have a natural inclination to be more sympathetic to the plight particularly of normal Palestinians. But despite the internal politics at play and actions that should be criticised Israel is in a continuously dangerous position, so the actions have to be seen in that light.

    No one actually seems to want peace, with mutually exclusive goals at the fore, so it all seems so utterly hopeless.
    Both sides want victory, and hope peace will follow.
    I think actually both sides are students of Roman military doctrines as expounded by Calgacus:

    ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant.
    Google's first reference to that is from Asterix...
    Well, I suppose that’s modern culture for you!
    Yeah, it's awsome.

    And Asterix is over 50 years old, it might as well be medieval.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,210

    Pleasing to see mask wearing is being ignored in the Cup final crowd by many . What is the rational for a presumably mask edict for an outside event ? Totally ridiculous

    And they all had to test negative in the last few days.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Although my attitude is very much ‘if I were them I wouldn’t start from here,’ I would like to know whether they are targeting any identified rocket launching sites.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,732
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Which would be a fair comment - had the Israeli government not started the demonstrations by going with a highly illegal land grab. Again.

    Actions have consequences.
    What illegal land grab?

    Israel grabbed land off Egypt and Jordan 54 years ago. I wasn't aware of any grabs since then.
    They’re trying to evict more Palestinians from East Jerusalem and give the land to Israeli settlers.

    This whole disaster began with protests ahead of a Supreme Court ruling on what amounts to a confiscation of Palestinian homes, and a heavy-handed Israeli response.
    Though East Jerusalem is a part of Israel. So their Court decisions should be followed but it is Israeli land annexed decades ago.

    Not seizing anything. I'm sure the Arab states if they wish to clear a section of their land in their states would be far more heavy handed than Israel and just get it done.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,375

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Well, they warned the AP. I had assumed they didn't warn everyone in the building. If they did, I rather wonder what was the point of destroying it.

    "Dear Mr Palestinian Militant. Please note that we shall be destroying the building where you are in three hours' time. This is to give you due notice, so that there is no chance of our action killing anyone who is actually relevant to the conflict. We want to make absolutely sure we just pointlessly destroy people's homes and press offices, while achieving precisely nothing."

    I mean, I thought it was stupid, but you make it sound absolutely moronic.

  • isamisam Posts: 38,131
    On Topic...

    Haven't given it any thought, but I saw the chart Mike posted in the header and said "ooh dear Labour"
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,513
    edited May 15
    Chris said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Well, they warned the AP. I had assumed they didn't warn everyone in the building. If they did, I rather wonder what was the point of destroying it.

    "Dear Mr Palestinian Militant. Please note that we shall be destroying the building where you are in three hours' time. This is to give you due notice, so that there is no chance of our action killing anyone who is actually relevant to the conflict. We want to make absolutely sure we just pointlessly destroy people's homes and press offices, while achieving precisely nothing."

    I mean, I thought it was stupid, but you make it sound absolutely moronic.

    It is moronic. But like I said, what are they supposed to do instead?
    Ground offensive? That may very well be coming.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,375

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    state_go_away is about as moronic a username as covid-go-away.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,251

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Which would be a fair comment - had the Israeli government not started the demonstrations by going with a highly illegal land grab. Again.

    Actions have consequences.
    What illegal land grab?

    Israel grabbed land off Egypt and Jordan 54 years ago. I wasn't aware of any grabs since then.
    They’re trying to evict more Palestinians from East Jerusalem and give the land to Israeli settlers.

    This whole disaster began with protests ahead of a Supreme Court ruling on what amounts to a confiscation of Palestinian homes, and a heavy-handed Israeli response.
    Though East Jerusalem is a part of Israel. So their Court decisions should be followed but it is Israeli land annexed decades ago.

    Not seizing anything. I'm sure the Arab states if they wish to clear a section of their land in their states would be far more heavy handed than Israel and just get it done.
    Are you saying that if somebody threw you out of your house with at best meagre compensation to make room for a Yorkshireman you would be OK with that?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Although my attitude is very much ‘if I were them I wouldn’t start from here,’ I would like to know whether they are targeting any identified rocket launching sites.
    Yes - they seem to have a range of targets

    They gave 1 hours notice to evacuate the building the press was in
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 29,606

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    I can't be arsed with the standard arguments of stop illegal settlements, try and and build trust, support democratic & civic institutions in Palestine (regardless of how difficult and thankless that is), pay some attention to UN resolutions etc, etc. The empirical and irrefutable evidence is that killing 10 or 20 or 100 times as many Palestinians by bombing one of the most densely populated countries on earth is NOT stopping Hamas building and firing rockets, so if that really is Israel's aim they've completely fucked it.
  • pingping Posts: 1,300
    I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh

    Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,839
    Pro_Rata said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Sizeable turnout of several hundred people in the square outside the railway station in support of Palestine. How much is simply a 'but the kids' human reaction and how much is a bit more politicised than that, I don't know.

    Which railway station?
    My usual haunt of Huddersfield. Obviously a sizeable Muslim community here, and I've seen demos of this type before, but it did seem rather bigger, at least 400 or so, maybe significantly more.
    Thanks.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,475
    ping said:

    I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh

    Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.

    Perhaps best not to describe other posters as nutters.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,131

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,479
    Chris said:

    Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?

    state_go_away is about as moronic a username as covid-go-away.
    right
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,513
    ping said:

    I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh

    Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.

    Well, I have a special connection to Israel. I am Jewish by race and several of members of my extended family fought for the IDF in the Yom Kippur War. So to an extent I am biased.

    Nevertheless, I think it's easy to get on the outrage bus when it comes to Israel and Palestine. Feel free to tell me what you think Israel should do instead, bearing in mind it is a democracy and therefore at the whim of its voters who demand security.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    Israel is in the position of strength (despite admittedly being surrounded by enemies and very real threats) and so I think it is natural that many of us will have a natural inclination to be more sympathetic to the plight particularly of normal Palestinians. But despite the internal politics at play and actions that should be criticised Israel is in a continuously dangerous position, so the actions have to be seen in that light.

    No one actually seems to want peace, with mutually exclusive goals at the fore, so it all seems so utterly hopeless.
    Both sides want victory, and hope peace will follow.
    Lets say Hamas win - what does the peace look like?
This discussion has been closed.