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Chart of the day: What happened in the Batley & Spen constituency at the May 2019 Euro elections – p

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Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219

    Nunu3 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    They are not trying they are simply doing it.
    As I keep asking, what do you expect Israel to do instead?
    Damned if I know how to bring peace to the Middle East. Maybe that's why I've never joined a political party. In most ways, Israel is the best country in the region. It's a democracy with religious freedom, political freedom, sexual freedom. But, well, the last couple of days show the but.
    All attempts to pacify the Middle East since the Maccabees revolt of 167 BC have been failures.

    I think we should consider the possibility and indeed probability that the problem is intractable.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 14,787
    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    If we do end up in another lockdown with pubs, restaurants and shops closed public retribution on those deemed responsible will be swift and merciless.

    At the moment in seems to me that the anti-vaxers and Boris's India decision are in the frame. Boris will be in real trouble if it appears to have been caused allowing travel from India for a full 3 weeks after banning it from neighbouring Pakistan and Banglasdesh. There was no logical reason for delay other than Boris's planned trade trip to India which was cancelled in the end anyway. Even at the time the decision to dither and delay was inexplicable to many.
    I beg to differ. He's done it before and got away with it.
    Tens of millions will say "He did his best".
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:
    "but club insists stars are 'entitled to their views".....but I suspect only certain views.
    Calling the Prime Minister a c***, acceptable. Calling out genocide in China, not acceptable.
    The NBA have got themselves in a terrible mess with this. Player doxxing a police officer and basically inciting a mob, no punishment, saying China's treatment of Uighurs isn't acceptable, totally verboten, withdraw your remarks, issue a fully apology, or you will be banned.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,465
    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    "Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    Voting intention poll:

    CON: 43% (-2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    LD: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 9% (+6)
    REF: 2% (-)

    [Their seat estimate]
    CON: 386 (+21)
    LAB: 172 (-31)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LD: 9 (-2)
    GRN: 2 (+1)
    OTH: 23 (+1)

    Tory majority of 122 seats.

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK"

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1393615235999801352

    It still means Labour have a lot of ground to make up just to get to NOM.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,125
    Ah my unvaccinated, pregnant girlfriend will be relishing her return to work at a 100% Muslim populated school in London on Monday

    “ Palestine Freedom March in London near Israel Embassy #FreePalestine #Palestine #israel #ifd #Gaza_Under_Attack #Gaza”

    https://twitter.com/maxsultanmax/status/1393569839646707713?s=21
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512

    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    "Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    Voting intention poll:

    CON: 43% (-2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    LD: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 9% (+6)
    REF: 2% (-)

    [Their seat estimate]
    CON: 386 (+21)
    LAB: 172 (-31)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LD: 9 (-2)
    GRN: 2 (+1)
    OTH: 23 (+1)

    Tory majority of 122 seats.

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK"

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1393615235999801352

    It still means Labour have a lot of ground to make up just to get to NOM.
    Or the Greens
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    ping said:

    I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh

    Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.

    Well, I have a special connection to Israel. I am Jewish by race and several of members of my extended family fought for the IDF in the Yom Kippur War. So to an extent I am biased.

    Nevertheless, I think it's easy to get on the outrage bus when it comes to Israel and Palestine. Feel free to tell me what you think Israel should do instead, bearing in mind it is a democracy and therefore at the whim of its voters who demand security.
    Ah, so in this case the opinions of voters do override the (rather substantial) competing claims of morality? And partisan allegiances are not a thing to be casually disowned?

    As it happens, I agree with you about Israel's position. That's the value of intellectual consistency.
    Come on now. I'm not saying Israel is right to do what they're doing, I'm merely arguing that realistically there's not another option open to them.

    If you read my posts, you'd know full well that my view on morality is not black and white anyway, apart from when it comes to football.
    That's fine, I'm always happy with even the slightest meeting of minds. I'll just gently invite you to juxtapose the position for which you called me contemptible and the one for which I would not apply that term to you.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 43,651
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    Every time a new variant has emerged, Johnson has decided to give people in the country in question a few days to get back to the UK before the ban came into force.
    There's the few days he gave them once the Red decision had been made and there is the three weeks or so before that when the Red decision was put off because he wanted a trade mission to India.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,800

    Nunu3 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    They are not trying they are simply doing it.
    As I keep asking, what do you expect Israel to do instead?
    Damned if I know how to bring peace to the Middle East. Maybe that's why I've never joined a political party. In most ways, Israel is the best country in the region. It's a democracy with religious freedom, political freedom, sexual freedom. But, well, the last couple of days show the but.
    I can fix the Israel/Palestine thing. The issue is this -

    image

    With the 67 borders, Israel is strategically vulnerable.

    So, Build more Israel. Hire the Dutch and give them 100 billion to fill in the Mediterranean until there is 20-30 miles more or Israel.

    At that point the moderate Israelis will sign up to a peace deal.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219

    Nunu3 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    They are not trying they are simply doing it.
    As I keep asking, what do you expect Israel to do instead?
    Damned if I know how to bring peace to the Middle East. Maybe that's why I've never joined a political party. In most ways, Israel is the best country in the region. It's a democracy with religious freedom, political freedom, sexual freedom. But, well, the last couple of days show the but.
    I can fix the Israel/Palestine thing. The issue is this -

    image

    With the 67 borders, Israel is strategically vulnerable.

    So, Build more Israel. Hire the Dutch and give them 100 billion to fill in the Mediterranean until there is 20-30 miles more or Israel.

    At that point the moderate Israelis will sign up to a peace deal.
    A good suggestion - if it wasn’t for the fact that a large chunk of their water now comes from desal plants on the Med.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,272
    dixiedean said:

    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    If we do end up in another lockdown with pubs, restaurants and shops closed public retribution on those deemed responsible will be swift and merciless.

    At the moment in seems to me that the anti-vaxers and Boris's India decision are in the frame. Boris will be in real trouble if it appears to have been caused allowing travel from India for a full 3 weeks after banning it from neighbouring Pakistan and Banglasdesh. There was no logical reason for delay other than Boris's planned trade trip to India which was cancelled in the end anyway. Even at the time the decision to dither and delay was inexplicable to many.
    I beg to differ. He's done it before and got away with it.
    Tens of millions will say "He did his best".
    You might be right and it very much depends on whether it results in another lockdown or not.

    I sense many are already at the end other tether with lockdowns and it is going to be exceedingly difficult for Boris to explain why there was a delay of 3 weeks between banning travel from Pakistan /Bangladesh and India.

    If the court of public opinion decided that allowing 20,000 travellers from India into the UK during that 3 week period was the cause of everything being shut down again then I think Boris is in trouble.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,800

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:
    "but club insists stars are 'entitled to their views".....but I suspect only certain views.
    Calling the Prime Minister a c***, acceptable. Calling out genocide in China, not acceptable.
    The NBA have got themselves in a terrible mess with this. Player doxxing a police officer and basically inciting a mob, no punishment, saying China's treatment of Uighurs isn't acceptable, totally verboten, withdraw your remarks, issue a fully apology, or you will be banned.
    Well, to be fair, there is a long history in the US of slave owners getting upset when you call them out on the slavery.

    No, wait.....
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 3,727

    The increase in positive tests has waned again, a trend that has been with us for 3-4 days now. Slightly interesting…

    My reading is that the near-simultaneous spike in cases (10th May), hospitalisations (last week), and deaths (11th May) without the lag between cases, hospitalisations, and deaths, was a result of imported cases and ill/dying family members causing a group to come forwards.
    If it subsides again (as early hints are that it is looking like it is), the level of community transmission of this outbreak are very restricted.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,558
    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    India should have been Red-Listed far earlier. However, it was, belatedly, Red Listed on 23 April, which was 23 days ago. The two weeks the Sunday Times is talking about was between 38 and 24 days ago. So call it a month. If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now. A quick scan of Malmesbury's charts (above), and the stubbornly declining ONS prevalence survey, is not convincing me that is happening - yet.

    If you want a sliver of optimism, not your thing I appreciate, the PHE epidemiologist I link to below points out that it currently appears that secondary attack rates amongst close contacts is higher among travellers compared to B117 but is very similar to B117 amongst UK based transmission.

    https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1392945684978995212
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 7,101
    dixiedean said:

    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    If we do end up in another lockdown with pubs, restaurants and shops closed public retribution on those deemed responsible will be swift and merciless.

    At the moment in seems to me that the anti-vaxers and Boris's India decision are in the frame. Boris will be in real trouble if it appears to have been caused allowing travel from India for a full 3 weeks after banning it from neighbouring Pakistan and Banglasdesh. There was no logical reason for delay other than Boris's planned trade trip to India which was cancelled in the end anyway. Even at the time the decision to dither and delay was inexplicable to many.
    I beg to differ. He's done it before and got away with it.
    Tens of millions will say "He did his best".
    I think that's right. I was speaking to some elderly relatives last week, and in their eyes Boris really can do no wrong. They'll be millions more like them up and down the country. Moreover, Sir Keir was a wrong 'un because he was forever criticizing Boris and not showing due deference and gratitude - the exact opposite of the criticism Sir Keir gets from every other quarter.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,688

    Lab + Green on 39% is pretty decent really, although obviously not from a FPTP perspective.

    Good one for the Tories that. "Vote SKS, get moonbats."
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,361

    Nunu3 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    They are not trying they are simply doing it.
    As I keep asking, what do you expect Israel to do instead?
    Damned if I know how to bring peace to the Middle East. Maybe that's why I've never joined a political party. In most ways, Israel is the best country in the region. It's a democracy with religious freedom, political freedom, sexual freedom. But, well, the last couple of days show the but.
    I can fix the Israel/Palestine thing. The issue is this -

    image

    With the 67 borders, Israel is strategically vulnerable.

    So, Build more Israel. Hire the Dutch and give them 100 billion to fill in the Mediterranean until there is 20-30 miles more or Israel.

    At that point the moderate Israelis will sign up to a peace deal.
    It's the Germans you really need...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantropa
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,800
    ydoethur said:

    Nunu3 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    They are not trying they are simply doing it.
    As I keep asking, what do you expect Israel to do instead?
    Damned if I know how to bring peace to the Middle East. Maybe that's why I've never joined a political party. In most ways, Israel is the best country in the region. It's a democracy with religious freedom, political freedom, sexual freedom. But, well, the last couple of days show the but.
    I can fix the Israel/Palestine thing. The issue is this -

    image

    With the 67 borders, Israel is strategically vulnerable.

    So, Build more Israel. Hire the Dutch and give them 100 billion to fill in the Mediterranean until there is 20-30 miles more or Israel.

    At that point the moderate Israelis will sign up to a peace deal.
    A good suggestion - if it wasn’t for the fact that a large chunk of their water now comes from desal plants on the Med.
    If you are spending money on building 20 miles of land, an extension to the inlet pipe of 20 miles or moving the desalination plants is a rounding error in the accounting.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,502

    MrEd said:
    When I have heard his justifications for his million dollar man salary they are laughable.
    To be fair, they have stuck him up in Thunderbird 5. It is a lonely, 24-7 posting that must deserve a premium.....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,089
    Great save
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 271
    ydoethur said:



    All attempts to pacify the Middle East since the Maccabees revolt of 167 BC have been failures.

    I think we should consider the possibility and indeed probability that the problem is intractable.

    We are always at war with Oceania?

  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188

    Is Boris our Berlusconi?

    No - Boris is just Boris

    And quite unique
    He's definitely unique, but I think he's more like an English Silvio than an English Donald, who he's so often unfairly twinned with.
    He is neither

    He is just Boris
    That was what I meant by 'definitely unique'.

    But in psephological terms, those that we should consider such things in in a place like this, Boris is much closer to Berlusconi than Trump.

    The Donald was elected, just, once.

    The Boris, like The Silvio, keeps on winning elections.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512

    ping said:

    I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh

    Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.

    Well, I have a special connection to Israel. I am Jewish by race and several of members of my extended family fought for the IDF in the Yom Kippur War. So to an extent I am biased.

    Nevertheless, I think it's easy to get on the outrage bus when it comes to Israel and Palestine. Feel free to tell me what you think Israel should do instead, bearing in mind it is a democracy and therefore at the whim of its voters who demand security.
    Ah, so in this case the opinions of voters do override the (rather substantial) competing claims of morality? And partisan allegiances are not a thing to be casually disowned?

    As it happens, I agree with you about Israel's position. That's the value of intellectual consistency.
    Come on now. I'm not saying Israel is right to do what they're doing, I'm merely arguing that realistically there's not another option open to them.

    If you read my posts, you'd know full well that my view on morality is not black and white anyway, apart from when it comes to football.
    That's fine, I'm always happy with even the slightest meeting of minds. I'll just gently invite you to juxtapose the position for which you called me contemptible and the one for which I would not apply that term to you.
    Yeah, fair enough. You're right, I am being a little bit of a hypocrite.

    However, at least I make my argument in a reasonable way, using the political reality to explain why Israel is doing what it's doing. I don't see any political pressure forcing the government to do what their doing, they're just lazy and/or reckless. You enjoy using political reality to belittle people who think these issues are important despite the fact the public on the whole don't care. That's rather different.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643

    Great save

    Total worldie....then he drops a simple cross......
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,089
    Chelsea equalise
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,089
    VAR
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15

    VAR

    Obvs....totally spoils the excitement.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,606

    MrEd said:
    When I have heard his justifications for his million dollar man salary they are laughable.
    To be fair, they have stuck him up in Thunderbird 5. It is a lonely, 24-7 posting that must deserve a premium.....
    Not as if he can spend it either, so it'll be accumulating nicely.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,089
    Chelsea sick as a parrot
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,493
    lol - couldn't happen to a nicer bunch
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,616
    glw said:

    A few weeks time and we will have millions as everybody rushes abroad for summer sunshine and brings back COVID along with the usual increased risk of skin cancer after been burned like a bad BBQ, a load of STIs...

    It's almost inevitable given the current case numbers than the Indian variants won't even be the most worrying ones by the end of the summer. It's people going to an as yet unknown country picking up a strain that may not exist yet that will be the problem in the autumn and winter.
    This.
  • pingping Posts: 1,298
    Pft.

    VAR sucks. Takes all the fun out of it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15
    I have said consistently, VAR offside should be like the cricket. You can appeal and it is a ref / umpire call if its toenail stuff.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,300
    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    "Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    Voting intention poll:

    CON: 43% (-2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    LD: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 9% (+6)
    REF: 2% (-)

    [Their seat estimate]
    CON: 386 (+21)
    LAB: 172 (-31)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LD: 9 (-2)
    GRN: 2 (+1)
    OTH: 23 (+1)

    Tory majority of 122 seats.

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK"

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1393615235999801352

    Dont worry, SKS still has time to do another Shadow Cabinet Reshuffle and a few more photo opportunities in Waitrose!
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,489
    BigRich said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    "Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    Voting intention poll:

    CON: 43% (-2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    LD: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 9% (+6)
    REF: 2% (-)

    [Their seat estimate]
    CON: 386 (+21)
    LAB: 172 (-31)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LD: 9 (-2)
    GRN: 2 (+1)
    OTH: 23 (+1)

    Tory majority of 122 seats.

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK"

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1393615235999801352

    Dont worry, SKS still has time to do another Shadow Cabinet Reshuffle and a few more photo opportunities in Waitrose!
    Look at that, Greens +6. If that poll is accurate, this might be the beginning of the end for Labour if its urban metropolitan types have decided to desert it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,089
    Well done Leicester
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 271
    FA Cup Final

    FT Chelsea 0 - Leicester 1
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,493
    ping said:

    Pft.

    VAR sucks. Takes all the fun out of it.

    Adds I think.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,089
    Could Chelsea actually miss out on the Champions league places and lose to Man City in Champions League final

    Squeaky but time
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,185
    It’s a shame Leicester can’t celebrate big time tonight (not that having a game the following midweek stopped Ray Parlour in 2002).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,462
    ping said:

    Pft.

    VAR sucks. Takes all the fun out of it.

    Replays in cricket are just about bearable, but they must really ruin football due to the faster pace of the action.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,264

    Talking of jabs , I had my second one today and I noticed that all the bays for people to be seated were numbered to 20 but there was no bay 13. I asked why not and was told that there were too many superstitious people. And no 13 bay had had to be removed as people would not sit in it... Jeez.....

    Lots of hotels don’t have floor number 13 (they obviously have a thirteenth floor). There is a measurable difference in room changes and suicides…
  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,371
    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    If we do end up in another lockdown with pubs, restaurants and shops closed public retribution on those deemed responsible will be swift and merciless.
    Pubs being closed may not even be the worst of it. This disease has killed more than 127,000 people in the UK so far. Nearly one in 500 of the whole population.

    There are some interesting statistics in this report:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/986380/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_11_England.pdf

    Between 5 January and 21 April, there were 250 cases of the Indian variant among people who had travelled outside the UK. Those people had a total of 3884 contacts. That is more than 15 contacts for each traveller.

    Subject to correction, during that period people were meant to be quarantining themselves after they returned.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,462
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    India should have been Red-Listed far earlier. However, it was, belatedly, Red Listed on 23 April, which was 23 days ago. The two weeks the Sunday Times is talking about was between 38 and 24 days ago. So call it a month. If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now. A quick scan of Malmesbury's charts (above), and the stubbornly declining ONS prevalence survey, is not convincing me that is happening - yet.

    If you want a sliver of optimism, not your thing I appreciate, the PHE epidemiologist I link to below points out that it currently appears that secondary attack rates amongst close contacts is higher among travellers compared to B117 but is very similar to B117 amongst UK based transmission.

    https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1392945684978995212
    Why did the experts think it was okay not to put India on the list earlier?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,361
    Andy_JS said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    India should have been Red-Listed far earlier. However, it was, belatedly, Red Listed on 23 April, which was 23 days ago. The two weeks the Sunday Times is talking about was between 38 and 24 days ago. So call it a month. If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now. A quick scan of Malmesbury's charts (above), and the stubbornly declining ONS prevalence survey, is not convincing me that is happening - yet.

    If you want a sliver of optimism, not your thing I appreciate, the PHE epidemiologist I link to below points out that it currently appears that secondary attack rates amongst close contacts is higher among travellers compared to B117 but is very similar to B117 amongst UK based transmission.

    https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1392945684978995212
    Why did the experts think it was okay not to put India on the list earlier?
    Because Boris is "Unique"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,493
    Charles said:

    Talking of jabs , I had my second one today and I noticed that all the bays for people to be seated were numbered to 20 but there was no bay 13. I asked why not and was told that there were too many superstitious people. And no 13 bay had had to be removed as people would not sit in it... Jeez.....

    Lots of hotels don’t have floor number 13 (they obviously have a thirteenth floor). There is a measurable difference in room changes and suicides…
    Apparently flying on a Friday 13th is great. Cheaper fares and lots of empty seats.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,185
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,264

    Whitechapel Bell Foundry is a historical gem. I've watched too many episodes of the road show - the UK original by far the best - to want it to be put into a trash bin for some lucky whomever to snatch it up - maybe.

    The made the Liberty Bell. And even if there may have been some quality control issues, you may notice that we Americans have never asked for a replacement.

    You've got my vote. And suspect plenty of others from across the USA including a WIDE spectrum of taste and opinion from Bernie Sanders to Ted Cruz.
    You know it’s been bought by some Americans right?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,465
    kinabalu said:

    lol - couldn't happen to a nicer bunch

    Chelski lose... made my day. Harlequins lose ditto but moreso.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 15

    ping said:

    I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh

    Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.

    Well, I have a special connection to Israel. I am Jewish by race and several of members of my extended family fought for the IDF in the Yom Kippur War. So to an extent I am biased.

    Nevertheless, I think it's easy to get on the outrage bus when it comes to Israel and Palestine. Feel free to tell me what you think Israel should do instead, bearing in mind it is a democracy and therefore at the whim of its voters who demand security.
    Ah, so in this case the opinions of voters do override the (rather substantial) competing claims of morality? And partisan allegiances are not a thing to be casually disowned?

    As it happens, I agree with you about Israel's position. That's the value of intellectual consistency.
    Come on now. I'm not saying Israel is right to do what they're doing, I'm merely arguing that realistically there's not another option open to them.

    If you read my posts, you'd know full well that my view on morality is not black and white anyway, apart from when it comes to football.
    That's fine, I'm always happy with even the slightest meeting of minds. I'll just gently invite you to juxtapose the position for which you called me contemptible and the one for which I would not apply that term to you.
    Yeah, fair enough. You're right, I am being a little bit of a hypocrite.

    However, at least I make my argument in a reasonable way, using the political reality to explain why Israel is doing what it's doing. I don't see any political pressure forcing the government to do what their doing, they're just lazy and/or reckless. You enjoy using political reality to belittle people who think these issues are important despite the fact the public on the whole don't care. That's rather different.
    Yes, the difference exists, but it's really the difference between democratic pressure and democratic acceptance. Even I wouldn't argue that the Tory-voting 43% of the public are actively encouraging Boris to crowd-fund his wallpaper - I'm not crazy.

    That figure can't be higher than, say, 21% or so... :wink:
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 4,791
    JBriskin3 said:

    FA Cup Final

    FT Chelsea 0 - Leicester 1

    Two places perhaps more than any other the symbolise multicultural Britain.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,558
    Andy_JS said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    India should have been Red-Listed far earlier. However, it was, belatedly, Red Listed on 23 April, which was 23 days ago. The two weeks the Sunday Times is talking about was between 38 and 24 days ago. So call it a month. If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now. A quick scan of Malmesbury's charts (above), and the stubbornly declining ONS prevalence survey, is not convincing me that is happening - yet.

    If you want a sliver of optimism, not your thing I appreciate, the PHE epidemiologist I link to below points out that it currently appears that secondary attack rates amongst close contacts is higher among travellers compared to B117 but is very similar to B117 amongst UK based transmission.

    https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1392945684978995212
    Why did the experts think it was okay not to put India on the list earlier?
    I think that was a political decision. Meaghan (the expert I'm quoting) is not shy in her criticism of the Government if needs be. It should have been so listed much earlier but Johnson, as is so often the case, MAY have got lucky.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,839
    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    If we do end up in another lockdown with pubs, restaurants and shops closed public retribution on those deemed responsible will be swift and merciless.

    At the moment in seems to me that the anti-vaxers and Boris's India decision are in the frame. Boris will be in real trouble if it appears to have been caused allowing travel from India for a full 3 weeks after banning it from neighbouring Pakistan and Banglasdesh. There was no logical reason for delay other than Boris's planned trade trip to India which was cancelled in the end anyway. Even at the time the decision to dither and delay was inexplicable to many.
    I've read that lots of Brits were visiting India for funerals etc, so I wondered whether it was more a fear of the media criticism for not allowing these people back.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219
    About the only prediction I’ve made in the last three months that looks set to come good is Middlesex to finish fifth in group 2.

    At the moment, they seem to be doing their best to finish sixth to spite me, but I reckon Leicestershire will just have the edge as they have no bowlers.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 2,974
    edited May 15

    Nunu3 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    They are not trying they are simply doing it.
    As I keep asking, what do you expect Israel to do instead?
    Damned if I know how to bring peace to the Middle East. Maybe that's why I've never joined a political party. In most ways, Israel is the best country in the region. It's a democracy with religious freedom.
    Up to a point. Its Arabs (those not in the Occupied Territories) certainly feel discriminated against, and often call themselves second-class citizens. Though of course they don't have to spend three years in the Army, which I'd think would outweigh a lot of that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,866
    tlg86 said:
    Best football invention ever!

    And I was saying it last week too...
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,839
    isam said:

    Ah my unvaccinated, pregnant girlfriend will be relishing her return to work at a 100% Muslim populated school in London on Monday

    “ Palestine Freedom March in London near Israel Embassy #FreePalestine #Palestine #israel #ifd #Gaza_Under_Attack #Gaza”

    https://twitter.com/maxsultanmax/status/1393569839646707713?s=21

    It's saddened me a lot that the immense risk to and loss of life from Covid has by no means reduced the enthusiasm for warfare.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,616
    Andy_JS said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    India should have been Red-Listed far earlier. However, it was, belatedly, Red Listed on 23 April, which was 23 days ago. The two weeks the Sunday Times is talking about was between 38 and 24 days ago. So call it a month. If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now. A quick scan of Malmesbury's charts (above), and the stubbornly declining ONS prevalence survey, is not convincing me that is happening - yet.

    If you want a sliver of optimism, not your thing I appreciate, the PHE epidemiologist I link to below points out that it currently appears that secondary attack rates amongst close contacts is higher among travellers compared to B117 but is very similar to B117 amongst UK based transmission.

    https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1392945684978995212
    Why did the experts think it was okay not to put India on the list earlier?
    The 'experts' have been against travel restrictions from the start.

    The logic being that it would encourage countries to lie about their infection rates.

    The fallacy being that countries did lie about their infection rates in any case and then they lied about their death rates.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,047

    VAR

    Are we supposed to know what VAR is?

    Football thing?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,558

    Andy_JS said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    India should have been Red-Listed far earlier. However, it was, belatedly, Red Listed on 23 April, which was 23 days ago. The two weeks the Sunday Times is talking about was between 38 and 24 days ago. So call it a month. If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now. A quick scan of Malmesbury's charts (above), and the stubbornly declining ONS prevalence survey, is not convincing me that is happening - yet.

    If you want a sliver of optimism, not your thing I appreciate, the PHE epidemiologist I link to below points out that it currently appears that secondary attack rates amongst close contacts is higher among travellers compared to B117 but is very similar to B117 amongst UK based transmission.

    https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1392945684978995212
    Why did the experts think it was okay not to put India on the list earlier?
    The 'experts' have been against travel restrictions from the start.

    The logic being that it would encourage countries to lie about their infection rates.

    The fallacy being that countries did lie about their infection rates in any case and then they lied about their death rates.
    The traffic light system is absolute rubbish. You either go full on Australia or accept that people will fly via other countries. Early in the pandemic I read a persuasive piece that said Italy's ban on flights from China resulted in the virus being seeded elsewhere in Europe as people just hopped on connecting flights.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,371
    DougSeal said:

    If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now.

    No, you're way out. You've misunderstood the post you were replying to. That is the number of possibly (i.e. potentially) infected arrivals. The actual number of known infections with the Indian variant in travellers is in the public domain. 250 between 5 January and 21 April.

    However, that stupendous number of 20,000 arrivals - given that according to the report I quoted they may have had as many as 300,000 contacts after entering the UK - is just more evidence that we are still repeating the same mistakes that were made a year ago, despite everything that's happened since then.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,806

    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    "Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    Voting intention poll:

    CON: 43% (-2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    LD: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 9% (+6)
    REF: 2% (-)

    [Their seat estimate]
    CON: 386 (+21)
    LAB: 172 (-31)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LD: 9 (-2)
    GRN: 2 (+1)
    OTH: 23 (+1)

    Tory majority of 122 seats.

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK"

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1393615235999801352

    And look at the greens

    They are a real threat to labour and lib dems
    They are... but they also need to break through. In a FPTP world, fourth parties can get squeezed really hard, where they aren't strong. Look at Scotland. The LibDems have four seats they hold, and are competitive in a couple more.

    And then they are sub 3% in much of the rest of the country.

    To perform in Westminster elections, the Greens need either (a) to address a real pressing need that was ignored by the other parties (see Euroscepticism and UKIP), and/or (b) develop local strength so they aren't seen as a wasted vote.

    They also have the problem that too many of their policies are based on - how to put this - peak human. They aren't about making us more sustainable through technology, they're infected with XR stuff. Stuff that, realistically, has pretty niche appeal.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219

    Andy_JS said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    India should have been Red-Listed far earlier. However, it was, belatedly, Red Listed on 23 April, which was 23 days ago. The two weeks the Sunday Times is talking about was between 38 and 24 days ago. So call it a month. If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now. A quick scan of Malmesbury's charts (above), and the stubbornly declining ONS prevalence survey, is not convincing me that is happening - yet.

    If you want a sliver of optimism, not your thing I appreciate, the PHE epidemiologist I link to below points out that it currently appears that secondary attack rates amongst close contacts is higher among travellers compared to B117 but is very similar to B117 amongst UK based transmission.

    https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1392945684978995212
    Why did the experts think it was okay not to put India on the list earlier?
    The 'experts' have been against travel restrictions from the start.

    The logic being that it would encourage countries to lie about their infection rates.

    The fallacy being that countries did lie about their infection rates in any case and then they lied about their death rates.
    And still are (unless we think China really only had 1200 deaths).
  • isamisam Posts: 38,125

    I have said consistently, VAR offside should be like the cricket. You can appeal and it is a ref / umpire call if its toenail stuff.

    All VAR should be on a 30 second timer, and if they cant tell by then, it wasn't a clear and obvious error and the refs decision stands

    How can it be clear and obvious it it takes someone looking at magnified images 3 mins to tell?
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    On VAR, I think football should just accept a few more delays.

    The game has such stupidly long delays for the weird raindancing rituals that the players appear to perform at every throw in, that I can't understand why stopping the clock now and then for a decent review of a decision shouldn't be allowed.

    The referee teams' decisions ought to be better. The players ought to have more time to recover, and so be able to put more energy into their gameplay.

    They must learn from rugby and cricket and let us hear how the decisions are being made.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 271
    MattW said:

    VAR

    Are we supposed to know what VAR is?

    Football thing?
    Video Assisted Referee. Yes, it's a football thing - but other sports have their own acroynms for the same thing.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,761

    Nunu3 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    They are not trying they are simply doing it.
    As I keep asking, what do you expect Israel to do instead?
    Damned if I know how to bring peace to the Middle East. Maybe that's why I've never joined a political party. In most ways, Israel is the best country in the region. It's a democracy with religious freedom, political freedom, sexual freedom. But, well, the last couple of days show the but.
    I can fix the Israel/Palestine thing. The issue is this -

    image

    With the 67 borders, Israel is strategically vulnerable.

    So, Build more Israel. Hire the Dutch and give them 100 billion to fill in the Mediterranean until there is 20-30 miles more or Israel.

    At that point the moderate Israelis will sign up to a peace deal.
    The Dutch could be expert conflict resolution consultants. Create new land to create an alternative to contested territorial claims, and get both sides negotiating in a smoke-filled room of a special kind.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,014
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    "Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    Voting intention poll:

    CON: 43% (-2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    LD: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 9% (+6)
    REF: 2% (-)

    [Their seat estimate]
    CON: 386 (+21)
    LAB: 172 (-31)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LD: 9 (-2)
    GRN: 2 (+1)
    OTH: 23 (+1)

    Tory majority of 122 seats.

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK"

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1393615235999801352

    And look at the greens

    They are a real threat to labour and lib dems
    They are... but they also need to break through. In a FPTP world, fourth parties can get squeezed really hard, where they aren't strong. Look at Scotland. The LibDems have four seats they hold, and are competitive in a couple more.

    And then they are sub 3% in much of the rest of the country.

    To perform in Westminster elections, the Greens need either (a) to address a real pressing need that was ignored by the other parties (see Euroscepticism and UKIP), and/or (b) develop local strength so they aren't seen as a wasted vote.

    They also have the problem that too many of their policies are based on - how to put this - peak human. They aren't about making us more sustainable through technology, they're infected with XR stuff. Stuff that, realistically, has pretty niche appeal.
    Besides, UKIP didn't succeed by winning Westminster seats. It got what it wanted by scaring the bejesus out of the Conservatives, by nabbing a slice out of their vote share.
    For various reasons, partly purist mindset, partly lack of votes to start with, it's harder to see that threat working on Labour.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,462

    Andy_JS said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    India should have been Red-Listed far earlier. However, it was, belatedly, Red Listed on 23 April, which was 23 days ago. The two weeks the Sunday Times is talking about was between 38 and 24 days ago. So call it a month. If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now. A quick scan of Malmesbury's charts (above), and the stubbornly declining ONS prevalence survey, is not convincing me that is happening - yet.

    If you want a sliver of optimism, not your thing I appreciate, the PHE epidemiologist I link to below points out that it currently appears that secondary attack rates amongst close contacts is higher among travellers compared to B117 but is very similar to B117 amongst UK based transmission.

    https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1392945684978995212
    Why did the experts think it was okay not to put India on the list earlier?
    The 'experts' have been against travel restrictions from the start.

    The logic being that it would encourage countries to lie about their infection rates.

    The fallacy being that countries did lie about their infection rates in any case and then they lied about their death rates.
    Totally ridiculous way of thinking from the experts.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,125
    Looks like Hamza Choudry and Wesley Fofana of Leicester celebrated by parading the Palestinian flag around Wembley!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219
    Quincel said:

    Nunu3 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
    I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.

    The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.

    It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
    I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
    But what are they supposed to do?

    They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.

    It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
    Stop turning little children into mincemeat
    This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.

    Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
    They are not trying they are simply doing it.
    As I keep asking, what do you expect Israel to do instead?
    Damned if I know how to bring peace to the Middle East. Maybe that's why I've never joined a political party. In most ways, Israel is the best country in the region. It's a democracy with religious freedom, political freedom, sexual freedom. But, well, the last couple of days show the but.
    I can fix the Israel/Palestine thing. The issue is this -

    image

    With the 67 borders, Israel is strategically vulnerable.

    So, Build more Israel. Hire the Dutch and give them 100 billion to fill in the Mediterranean until there is 20-30 miles more or Israel.

    At that point the moderate Israelis will sign up to a peace deal.
    The Dutch could be expert conflict resolution consultants. Create new land to create an alternative to contested territorial claims, and get both sides negotiating in a smoke-filled room of a special kind.
    Are you suggesting they weed out the nutters?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,558
    Chris said:

    DougSeal said:

    If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now.

    No, you're way out. You've misunderstood the post you were replying to. That is the number of possibly (i.e. potentially) infected arrivals. The actual number of known infections with the Indian variant in travellers is in the public domain. 250 between 5 January and 21 April.

    However, that stupendous number of 20,000 arrivals - given that according to the report I quoted they may have had as many as 300,000 contacts after entering the UK - is just more evidence that we are still repeating the same mistakes that were made a year ago, despite everything that's happened since then.
    The point I was making is that the Sunday Times headline was deliberately misleading in that respect. Plausably deniable but striking conditional tense constructions involving words like "Could", "Fears that" "Concerns" etc etc are all over the media in this crisis and have made it, from a mental health perspective anyway, significantly worse.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,047
    edited May 15
    JBriskin3 said:

    MattW said:

    VAR

    Are we supposed to know what VAR is?

    Football thing?
    Video Assisted Referee. Yes, it's a football thing - but other sports have their own acroynms for the same thing.
    Aha. Thank.

    Football trying to do Hawkeye 20 years later.

    Have they got it to work yet? :smile:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,462
    edited May 15
    I can only read the headline but this looks like an interesting article for those who can read it.

    "Use of fear to control behaviour in Covid crisis was ‘totalitarian’, admit scientists
    Members of Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviour express regret about ‘unethical’ methods"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/14/scientists-admit-totalitarian-use-fear-control-behaviour-covid/
  • isamisam Posts: 38,125

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    "Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    Voting intention poll:

    CON: 43% (-2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    LD: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 9% (+6)
    REF: 2% (-)

    [Their seat estimate]
    CON: 386 (+21)
    LAB: 172 (-31)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LD: 9 (-2)
    GRN: 2 (+1)
    OTH: 23 (+1)

    Tory majority of 122 seats.

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK"

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1393615235999801352

    And look at the greens

    They are a real threat to labour and lib dems
    They are... but they also need to break through. In a FPTP world, fourth parties can get squeezed really hard, where they aren't strong. Look at Scotland. The LibDems have four seats they hold, and are competitive in a couple more.

    And then they are sub 3% in much of the rest of the country.

    To perform in Westminster elections, the Greens need either (a) to address a real pressing need that was ignored by the other parties (see Euroscepticism and UKIP), and/or (b) develop local strength so they aren't seen as a wasted vote.

    They also have the problem that too many of their policies are based on - how to put this - peak human. They aren't about making us more sustainable through technology, they're infected with XR stuff. Stuff that, realistically, has pretty niche appeal.
    Besides, UKIP didn't succeed by winning Westminster seats. It got what it wanted by scaring the bejesus out of the Conservatives, by nabbing a slice out of their vote share.
    For various reasons, partly purist mindset, partly lack of votes to start with, it's harder to see that threat working on Labour.
    Are you kidding???!!!

    There are millions of Corbynites who hate everything about the latest Labour franchise - the membership is through the floor, the polls ratings and results not far behind. They could do a lot more damage than UKIP did to the Tories (who won a majority with UKIP on 13%)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 26,866
    MattW said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MattW said:

    VAR

    Are we supposed to know what VAR is?

    Football thing?
    Video Assisted Referee. Yes, it's a football thing - but other sports have their own acroynms for the same thing.
    Aha.

    Football trying to do Hawkeye 20 years later.

    Have they got it to work yet?
    Worked for me!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,462
    edited May 15
    isam said:

    I have said consistently, VAR offside should be like the cricket. You can appeal and it is a ref / umpire call if its toenail stuff.

    All VAR should be on a 30 second timer, and if they cant tell by then, it wasn't a clear and obvious error and the refs decision stands

    How can it be clear and obvious it it takes someone looking at magnified images 3 mins to tell?
    If all the players had a tracking device on their shirts you might be able to get an instant answer as to whether someone was offside or not, which could be relayed to the referee without delay.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 271
    MattW said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MattW said:

    VAR

    Are we supposed to know what VAR is?

    Football thing?
    Video Assisted Referee. Yes, it's a football thing - but other sports have their own acroynms for the same thing.
    Aha.

    Football trying to do Hawkeye 20 years later.

    Have they got it to work yet?
    Nope. My opinion on the VAR is that they shouldn't have changed the accidental hand ball rule at the exact same time.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,185
    isam said:

    Looks like Hamza Choudry and Wesley Fofana of Leicester celebrated by parading the Palestinian flag around Wembley!

    Good job they weren’t facing Spurs today!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,193
    Andy_JS said:

    I can only read the headline but this looks like an interesting article for those who can read it.

    "Use of fear to control behaviour in Covid crisis was ‘totalitarian’, admit scientists
    Members of Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviour express regret about ‘unethical’ methods"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/14/scientists-admit-totalitarian-use-fear-control-behaviour-covid/

    This is a "bears found defecating in wooded environments" headline.

    Democratic societies (as much as authoritarian ones) have used fear as a method of a) social control and b) the pursuance of public policy objectives.

    The way Governments have responded to terrorism and policy toward the Soviet Union in the Cold War are two examples where fear was a motivating factor but there have been others especially in the economic area..
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,493
    Overtones of the 68 final won 1-0 by the underdog Baggies with a rocket from Jeff Astle.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    isam said:

    Looks like Hamza Choudry and Wesley Fofana of Leicester celebrated by parading the Palestinian flag around Wembley!

    And this is the slippery slope of letting politics into sport.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,616
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    This really is the end of Boris if he doesn't get VERY lucky with the vaxxxx

    Politics For All
    @PoliticsForAlI

    3m
    NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India

    Via
    @thesundaytimes

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20

    India should have been Red-Listed far earlier. However, it was, belatedly, Red Listed on 23 April, which was 23 days ago. The two weeks the Sunday Times is talking about was between 38 and 24 days ago. So call it a month. If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now. A quick scan of Malmesbury's charts (above), and the stubbornly declining ONS prevalence survey, is not convincing me that is happening - yet.

    If you want a sliver of optimism, not your thing I appreciate, the PHE epidemiologist I link to below points out that it currently appears that secondary attack rates amongst close contacts is higher among travellers compared to B117 but is very similar to B117 amongst UK based transmission.

    https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1392945684978995212
    Why did the experts think it was okay not to put India on the list earlier?
    The 'experts' have been against travel restrictions from the start.

    The logic being that it would encourage countries to lie about their infection rates.

    The fallacy being that countries did lie about their infection rates in any case and then they lied about their death rates.
    Totally ridiculous way of thinking from the experts.
    I have a suspicion that the Boris visit to a hospital last March where he boasted of 'shaking hands with everyone' had a similar logic of not trying to blame victims / discourage the infected from keeping quiet.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 14,787
    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    "Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    Voting intention poll:

    CON: 43% (-2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    LD: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 9% (+6)
    REF: 2% (-)

    [Their seat estimate]
    CON: 386 (+21)
    LAB: 172 (-31)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LD: 9 (-2)
    GRN: 2 (+1)
    OTH: 23 (+1)

    Tory majority of 122 seats.

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK"

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1393615235999801352

    And look at the greens

    They are a real threat to labour and lib dems
    They are... but they also need to break through. In a FPTP world, fourth parties can get squeezed really hard, where they aren't strong. Look at Scotland. The LibDems have four seats they hold, and are competitive in a couple more.

    And then they are sub 3% in much of the rest of the country.

    To perform in Westminster elections, the Greens need either (a) to address a real pressing need that was ignored by the other parties (see Euroscepticism and UKIP), and/or (b) develop local strength so they aren't seen as a wasted vote.

    They also have the problem that too many of their policies are based on - how to put this - peak human. They aren't about making us more sustainable through technology, they're infected with XR stuff. Stuff that, realistically, has pretty niche appeal.
    Besides, UKIP didn't succeed by winning Westminster seats. It got what it wanted by scaring the bejesus out of the Conservatives, by nabbing a slice out of their vote share.
    For various reasons, partly purist mindset, partly lack of votes to start with, it's harder to see that threat working on Labour.
    Are you kidding???!!!

    There are millions of Corbynites who hate everything about the latest Labour franchise - the membership is through the floor, the polls ratings and results not far behind. They could do a lot more damage than UKIP did to the Tories (who won a majority with UKIP on 13%)
    And of course. That 13% didn't come exclusively from the Tories. Maybe not even a majority.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 271
    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    I have said consistently, VAR offside should be like the cricket. You can appeal and it is a ref / umpire call if its toenail stuff.

    All VAR should be on a 30 second timer, and if they cant tell by then, it wasn't a clear and obvious error and the refs decision stands

    How can it be clear and obvious it it takes someone looking at magnified images 3 mins to tell?
    If all the players had a tracking device on their shirts you might be able to get an instant answer as to whether someone was offside or not, which could be relayed to the referee without delay.
    But what if they're "not interfering in play" ?
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 271
    JBriskin3 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    I have said consistently, VAR offside should be like the cricket. You can appeal and it is a ref / umpire call if its toenail stuff.

    All VAR should be on a 30 second timer, and if they cant tell by then, it wasn't a clear and obvious error and the refs decision stands

    How can it be clear and obvious it it takes someone looking at magnified images 3 mins to tell?
    If all the players had a tracking device on their shirts you might be able to get an instant answer as to whether someone was offside or not, which could be relayed to the referee without delay.
    But what if they're "not interfering in play" ?
    That should be "with play", obvs.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,185
    edited May 15

    isam said:

    Looks like Hamza Choudry and Wesley Fofana of Leicester celebrated by parading the Palestinian flag around Wembley!

    And this is the slippery slope of letting politics into sport.
    We’ve come a long way in 20 years. Simply celebrating the birth of a child used to be a no no...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00994/sport-graphics-2002_994413a.jpg
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    edited May 15
    Teams already have real time tracking of their players, but the clubs don't want to share that info with the opposition...as a result there are the likes of StatsBomb who get this data from video footage post game.

    NBA and NHL have real time tracking and all that info is available to the teams,.where the coaches now have apps showing a virtual scenes of the action that they can look at in near real time.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,264
    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    They elected the hamas dickheads
  • FishingFishing Posts: 2,974
    Andy_JS said:

    I can only read the headline but this looks like an interesting article for those who can read it.

    "Use of fear to control behaviour in Covid crisis was ‘totalitarian’, admit scientists
    Members of Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviour express regret about ‘unethical’ methods"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/14/scientists-admit-totalitarian-use-fear-control-behaviour-covid/

    We were the most fearful country for a reason - government panic-mongering. I heard of non-vulnerable, young friends who essentially locked themselves in their houses for months at a time.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,761
    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    I have said consistently, VAR offside should be like the cricket. You can appeal and it is a ref / umpire call if its toenail stuff.

    All VAR should be on a 30 second timer, and if they cant tell by then, it wasn't a clear and obvious error and the refs decision stands

    How can it be clear and obvious it it takes someone looking at magnified images 3 mins to tell?
    If all the players had a tracking device on their shirts you might be able to get an instant answer as to whether someone was offside or not, which could be relayed to the referee without delay.
    Surely you would need to know where their most goal-side point was, not just a random point of their shirt?
  • isamisam Posts: 38,125
    dixiedean said:

    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's a new outfit called FindOutNowUK:

    "Stats for Lefties
    @LeftieStats
    Voting intention poll:

    CON: 43% (-2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    LD: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 9% (+6)
    REF: 2% (-)

    [Their seat estimate]
    CON: 386 (+21)
    LAB: 172 (-31)
    SNP: 58 (+10)
    LD: 9 (-2)
    GRN: 2 (+1)
    OTH: 23 (+1)

    Tory majority of 122 seats.

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK"

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1393615235999801352

    And look at the greens

    They are a real threat to labour and lib dems
    They are... but they also need to break through. In a FPTP world, fourth parties can get squeezed really hard, where they aren't strong. Look at Scotland. The LibDems have four seats they hold, and are competitive in a couple more.

    And then they are sub 3% in much of the rest of the country.

    To perform in Westminster elections, the Greens need either (a) to address a real pressing need that was ignored by the other parties (see Euroscepticism and UKIP), and/or (b) develop local strength so they aren't seen as a wasted vote.

    They also have the problem that too many of their policies are based on - how to put this - peak human. They aren't about making us more sustainable through technology, they're infected with XR stuff. Stuff that, realistically, has pretty niche appeal.
    Besides, UKIP didn't succeed by winning Westminster seats. It got what it wanted by scaring the bejesus out of the Conservatives, by nabbing a slice out of their vote share.
    For various reasons, partly purist mindset, partly lack of votes to start with, it's harder to see that threat working on Labour.
    Are you kidding???!!!

    There are millions of Corbynites who hate everything about the latest Labour franchise - the membership is through the floor, the polls ratings and results not far behind. They could do a lot more damage than UKIP did to the Tories (who won a majority with UKIP on 13%)
    And of course. That 13% didn't come exclusively from the Tories. Maybe not even a majority.
    Yes. The latest YouGov has Labour leaking 12% of its 2019 vote to the Greens, and taking 22% of the 2019 Lib Dem vote - a net loss of 400k votes

    That might just mean it wins by less in the big lefty places though I guess. I would love to see Abbott, Corbyn, and a few of the real SWP types stand for the Greens next time
  • CookieCookie Posts: 4,241

    isam said:

    Looks like Hamza Choudry and Wesley Fofana of Leicester celebrated by parading the Palestinian flag around Wembley!

    And this is the slippery slope of letting politics into sport.
    Gone off Leicester already...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,643
    Quincel said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    I have said consistently, VAR offside should be like the cricket. You can appeal and it is a ref / umpire call if its toenail stuff.

    All VAR should be on a 30 second timer, and if they cant tell by then, it wasn't a clear and obvious error and the refs decision stands

    How can it be clear and obvious it it takes someone looking at magnified images 3 mins to tell?
    If all the players had a tracking device on their shirts you might be able to get an instant answer as to whether someone was offside or not, which could be relayed to the referee without delay.
    Surely you would need to know where their most goal-side point was, not just a random point of their shirt?
    This technology already exists and is currently in trials with UEFA.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412
    Charles said:

    Whitechapel Bell Foundry is a historical gem. I've watched too many episodes of the road show - the UK original by far the best - to want it to be put into a trash bin for some lucky whomever to snatch it up - maybe.

    The made the Liberty Bell. And even if there may have been some quality control issues, you may notice that we Americans have never asked for a replacement.

    You've got my vote. And suspect plenty of others from across the USA including a WIDE spectrum of taste and opinion from Bernie Sanders to Ted Cruz.
    You know it’s been bought by some Americans right?
    That's what I feared. Why am I not surprised? Something to brag about next time they're hobnobbing at Mar-el-Lardo and wherever else land pirates like to congregate, debauch & flaunt their filthy lucre.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186
    Charles said:

    ping said:

    @ydoethur

    Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.

    I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.

    Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?

    —-


    I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans

    Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.

    Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.

    They elected the hamas dickheads
    I'm sure they can vote them out ...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,455
    ” Extremely welcome news today! A new study from the Indraprastha Apollo Hospital in Delhi, India shows 97.38% of a total of 3,235 HCWs vaccinated with Covishield (AstraZeneca) were protected from COVID-19 infection and the chances of hospitalization after vaccination were 0.06%.”</>

    https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1393609430856503297
  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,371
    DougSeal said:

    Chris said:

    DougSeal said:

    If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now.

    No, you're way out. You've misunderstood the post you were replying to. That is the number of possibly (i.e. potentially) infected arrivals. The actual number of known infections with the Indian variant in travellers is in the public domain. 250 between 5 January and 21 April.

    However, that stupendous number of 20,000 arrivals - given that according to the report I quoted they may have had as many as 300,000 contacts after entering the UK - is just more evidence that we are still repeating the same mistakes that were made a year ago, despite everything that's happened since then.
    The point I was making is that the Sunday Times headline was deliberately misleading in that respect.
    Well, the post you were quoting said "Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India"

    And you responded with "If 20,000 (or even close to that) infections arrived in the country in that period, given this variant's R0 is estimated to be as high as 7 (I think it more likely to be 5 or 6 but what do I know) then that would be showing up far more clearly in the case figures by now."

    [my emphasis all round]

    It certainly looked as though you got it wrong. But if you were just trying to make a point by appearing to get it wrong, you'd better thank me for giving you the opportunity of explaining!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,465
    JBriskin3 said:

    MattW said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    MattW said:

    VAR

    Are we supposed to know what VAR is?

    Football thing?
    Video Assisted Referee. Yes, it's a football thing - but other sports have their own acroynms for the same thing.
    Aha.

    Football trying to do Hawkeye 20 years later.

    Have they got it to work yet?
    Nope. My opinion on the VAR is that they shouldn't have changed the accidental hand ball rule at the exact same time.
    The FA fucks up everything it touches. Appallingly useless organisation.
  • isam said:

    Looks like Hamza Choudry and Wesley Fofana of Leicester celebrated by parading the Palestinian flag around Wembley!

    And this is the slippery slope of letting politics into sport.
    I believe the FA need to slap a ban on them.

This discussion has been closed.