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My “Jo Biden Day 100” approval rating bet now looking touch and go – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,158
edited April 2021 in General
imageMy “Jo Biden Day 100” approval rating bet now looking touch and go – politicalbetting.com

A couple of months ago I did a post here and bet at evens that by the time Joe Biden got to his 100th day in office he would still have approval ratings in the range of 50-54.9%. I described this a one of the best political bets at the moment.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    First!
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Biden Approval Rating sets a new high BAR.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,390
    3rd...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Of recent Presidents at this stage of their Presidency Trump was on 41%, Obama was on 62%, Bush was on 59% and Clinton was on 52% and Bush Snr on 58% and Reagan on 67%.

    So Biden is currently about average in terms of approval, with Trump significantly below the average and Obama and Reagan clearly above the average
    https://news.gallup.com/interactives/185273/presidential-job-approval-center.aspx
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,794
    Damn, can he not fall down some more stairs or something? To lose that bet on the upside seems unlucky.
  • I wonder how much this is driven by the fact there's relief that Trump is no longer President and that war isn't likely to be triggered by a Tweet?
  • HYUFD said:

    Of recent Presidents at this stage of their Presidency Trump was on 41%, Obama was on 62%, Bush was on 59% and Clinton was on 52% and Bush Snr on 58% and Reagan on 67%.

    So Biden is currently about average in terms of approval, with Trump significantly below the average and Obama and Reagan clearly above the average
    https://news.gallup.com/interactives/185273/presidential-job-approval-center.aspx

    I think getting shot helped Reagan's polling figure.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited April 2021

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
    I don't know who you're trying to convince. I wasn't saying we ARE special. I'm saying we COULD BE special.

    And it's true, we COULD be.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,706

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
    Tell José

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    Damn, can he not fall down some more stairs or something? To lose that bet on the upside seems unlucky.

    Very good news for the future of America considering the apparent hyperpartisan split of recent years though.

    Perhaps even some Republicans now want to put the manic partisanship of recent years behind them. For now at least.

    Maybe we'll see that at home soon too? People moving on from 52/48 splits and anger at 11/10.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
    I don't know who you're trying to convince. I wasn't saying we ARE special. I'm saying we COULD BE special.

    And it's true, we COULD be.
    I am pointing out that previous applications of the idea that we are special have turned out to be wrong.

    Anyhow, thanks for the debate, I must go.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    geoffw said:

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
    Tell José


    I thought Daniel Levy just did that?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,774
    Mr. Max, the Greens, proposing a useless, harmful policy for the UK that won't make a serious impact worldwide?

    Quelle surprise!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,773
    On what we and the world can do for India - send them oxygen, ventilators, CPAPs, all of the emergency care equipment, PPE and whatever else they need for the humanitarian crisis. We simply aren't going to need it any more and neither will the US.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,147
    edited April 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Of recent Presidents at this stage of their Presidency Trump was on 41%, Obama was on 62%, Bush was on 59% and Clinton was on 52% and Bush Snr on 58% and Reagan on 67%.

    So Biden is currently about average in terms of approval, with Trump significantly below the average and Obama and Reagan clearly above the average
    https://news.gallup.com/interactives/185273/presidential-job-approval-center.aspx

    I'm not sure how much can be read into earlier polling ratings on 100 days.

    It's too early to talk about a new normal, and Biden in many ways represents a reversion to the mean, but it used to be common for Republican Presidents to get very respectable ratings from Democrats in the early stages and vice versa.

    In this ultra-partisan era, Biden is at around 10% with Republicans and 90% with Democrats. I've not got the pre-Trump figures to hand but suspect that - if not popular with opponents - there was a genuine goodwill amongst many Republicans for Obama and Democrats for Reagan. That was led by defeated opponents, of course. McCain was notably magnanimous, Carter less so but did what was expected of him to say the right things.

    Clearly, Biden will be pleased to be above water. Not sure he'll be overly worried by slightly more lukewarm comparisons with several pre-Trump Presidents.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    HYUFD said:

    Of recent Presidents at this stage of their Presidency Trump was on 41%, Obama was on 62%, Bush was on 59% and Clinton was on 52% and Bush Snr on 58% and Reagan on 67%.

    So Biden is currently about average in terms of approval, with Trump significantly below the average and Obama and Reagan clearly above the average
    https://news.gallup.com/interactives/185273/presidential-job-approval-center.aspx

    I think getting shot helped Reagan's polling figure.
    Partly but Reagan and Obama, along with JFK and IKE were probably the most popular Presidents overall since FDR (though Reagan did have a dip in late 1981 and 1982 due to the recession)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited April 2021
    John Major seen as the most trustworthy ex PM now followed by Brown (Starmer on the same rating as Brown), Cameron seen as the most untrustworthy ex PM, followed by Blair with Johnson seen as 10% less untrustworthy than Blair and 15% less untrustworthy than Cameron

    https://twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/1387023670435061763?s=20
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,147
    edited April 2021

    DavidL said:

    Damn, can he not fall down some more stairs or something? To lose that bet on the upside seems unlucky.

    Very good news for the future of America considering the apparent hyperpartisan split of recent years though.

    Perhaps even some Republicans now want to put the manic partisanship of recent years behind them. For now at least.

    Maybe we'll see that at home soon too? People moving on from 52/48 splits and anger at 11/10.
    Unfortunately, though, the detail of the polling doesn't support that. From what I've seen, Biden's net positive represents overwhelming Democrat support, overwhelming Republican hostility, and broad Independent approval (this mainly based on the stimulus package and vaccine rollout). I am not sure there is yet a suggestion of an end to the partican era, although we can but hope.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
    The Great Filter could be one of many things:

    1 - Very rare abiogenesis (the precise circumstances by which self-replicating organisms can come about are rare and/or subject to extreme chance. For example, I've seen it posited that a large Moon to flex the crust in order to have sufficient activity (radioactive minerals close to the surface and/or volcanic activity that's just right and not too much) could be necessary. Not sure how likely that is)
    2 - Very rare evolution of communicative intelligence (we, as a species, only turned up very late in the day and by chance that an ecological niche opened up that was compatible with evolving intelligence.)
    3 - Limited Lifespan (intelligent life becomes dependent on a whole lot of things, including not destroying itself, and its capacity to change its own environment in such a way that its own continued existence gets limited becomes too great)
    4 - Dark Forest (the first intelligence to get interstellar travel destroys all others simply because the capacity for destruction from new, immature intelligences, is too dangerous. Thus any surviving intelligences stay very very quiet)
    5 - No Interstellar Travel (The distances between stars are just too great. There is no FTL and sublight travel is economically unviable, even for seedships)
    6 - Timing (The conditions for intelligent life to evolve are very dependent on such things as second generation stars, having sufficient time to develop, not having serious destructive events, and it is only recently that such conditions have come about)
    7 - All of the above.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    DavidL said:

    Damn, can he not fall down some more stairs or something? To lose that bet on the upside seems unlucky.

    Very good news for the future of America considering the apparent hyperpartisan split of recent years though.

    Perhaps even some Republicans now want to put the manic partisanship of recent years behind them. For now at least.

    Maybe we'll see that at home soon too? People moving on from 52/48 splits and anger at 11/10.
    Unfortunately, though, the detail of the polling doesn't support that. From what I've seen, Biden's net positive represents overwhelming Democrat support, overwhelming Republican hostility, and broad Independent approval of the stimulus and vaccine rollout. I am not sure there is yet a suggestion of an end to the partican era, although we can but hope.
    It's the independent element that is key though. A lot of Republican voters are listed as independents.

    In recent years even independents have been pretty set in the opinions. You get blue or red independents and they're fixed.

    If independent voters are stopping being hyperpartisan then that includes a large chunk of GOP voters.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Thoughts and prayers with @MrEd etc etc
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2021
    SNP majority y/n now back up to ~evens on bf

    Value on no, IMO. Even better value on snp <60 seats @6.4

    Dyor, though!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,574
    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
    The Great Filter could be one of many things:

    1 - Very rare abiogenesis (the precise circumstances by which self-replicating organisms can come about are rare and/or subject to extreme chance. For example, I've seen it posited that a large Moon to flex the crust in order to have sufficient activity (radioactive minerals close to the surface and/or volcanic activity that's just right and not too much) could be necessary. Not sure how likely that is)
    2 - Very rare evolution of communicative intelligence (we, as a species, only turned up very late in the day and by chance that an ecological niche opened up that was compatible with evolving intelligence.)
    3 - Limited Lifespan (intelligent life becomes dependent on a whole lot of things, including not destroying itself, and its capacity to change its own environment in such a way that its own continued existence gets limited becomes too great)
    4 - Dark Forest (the first intelligence to get interstellar travel destroys all others simply because the capacity for destruction from new, immature intelligences, is too dangerous. Thus any surviving intelligences stay very very quiet)
    5 - No Interstellar Travel (The distances between stars are just too great. There is no FTL and sublight travel is economically unviable, even for seedships)
    6 - Timing (The conditions for intelligent life to evolve are very dependent on such things as second generation stars, having sufficient time to develop, not having serious destructive events, and it is only recently that such conditions have come about)
    7 - All of the above.
    Given the vastness of the universe only #5 seems probable.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    I wonder how much this is driven by the fact there's relief that Trump is no longer President and that war isn't likely to be triggered by a Tweet?

    I think it is mostly driven by the series of incredibly popular pieces of legislation he has passed or is in the process of passing.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369

    Quite good for a Tuesday.

    600k day tomorrow?

    Anyone have a Required Run Rate for next targets?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,765
    HYUFD said:

    John Major seen as the most trustworthy ex PM now followed by Brown (Starmer on the same rating as Brown), Cameron seen as the most untrustworthy ex PM, followed by Blair with Johnson seen as 10% less untrustworthy than Blair and 15% less untrustworthy than Cameron

    https://twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/1387023670435061763?s=20
    There seems to be a correlation between trustworthiness and uselessness.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited April 2021
    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
    The Great Filter could be one of many things:

    1 - Very rare abiogenesis (the precise circumstances by which self-replicating organisms can come about are rare and/or subject to extreme chance. For example, I've seen it posited that a large Moon to flex the crust in order to have sufficient activity (radioactive minerals close to the surface and/or volcanic activity that's just right and not too much) could be necessary. Not sure how likely that is)
    2 - Very rare evolution of communicative intelligence (we, as a species, only turned up very late in the day and by chance that an ecological niche opened up that was compatible with evolving intelligence.)
    3 - Limited Lifespan (intelligent life becomes dependent on a whole lot of things, including not destroying itself, and its capacity to change its own environment in such a way that its own continued existence gets limited becomes too great)
    4 - Dark Forest (the first intelligence to get interstellar travel destroys all others simply because the capacity for destruction from new, immature intelligences, is too dangerous. Thus any surviving intelligences stay very very quiet)
    5 - No Interstellar Travel (The distances between stars are just too great. There is no FTL and sublight travel is economically unviable, even for seedships)
    6 - Timing (The conditions for intelligent life to evolve are very dependent on such things as second generation stars, having sufficient time to develop, not having serious destructive events, and it is only recently that such conditions have come about)
    7 - All of the above.
    There are 2,000,000,000,000 galaxies. Each galaxy contains ~ 100,000,000,000 stars. Most stars have multiple planets, say ~5.

    So, there are ~ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the Universe. And these planets will have evolved over many 1,000, 000,000,000 years. There is plenty of opportunity for very rare events to have happened many, many times.

    (I think of your list, only 5 is likely to be correct -- though that does not mean we cannot detect life because we may gain evidence via spectroscopy. In fact, I think that is much the most likely bio-signature. Point 3 is certainly true, though we know life on Earth has persisted over 3.7 Gyrs, only a bit shorter than age of the Earth)

    Must go, now.
  • Alistair said:

    I wonder how much this is driven by the fact there's relief that Trump is no longer President and that war isn't likely to be triggered by a Tweet?

    I think it is mostly driven by the series of incredibly popular pieces of legislation he has passed or is in the process of passing.
    That too.

    The fact that the Trumpers say that Biden has dementia and yet he manages to do all of that means they've lowered the bar soo much for Biden.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20

    They’ll fall out with each other rather quickly, I’d guess.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,390
    Off-topic - Any Lovejoy fans out there (books not TV)? I'm trying to recall which book it is where there is a buried Victorian engine in a tunnel, complete with a silver locomotive - can anyone help?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,396
    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20

    Pity it isn't with the London UKIP candidate.
    Fox and Gammons is branding genius.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,390
    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20

    So just like everywhere else from late June then...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,936
    If you think that in a universe somewhere there is a version of me who has just made himself a cup of coffee and milk and watched the milk separate perfectly to one corner of the cup, then it is not beyond the realms of the possible, perhaps probable that there is life somewhere.

    But I am in the camp of not knowing or really caring until one does an emergency landing on the A1(M) in front of me (not too close, mind).
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,211

    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369

    I assume the low first dose figures are still due to April supply constraints. Do we know that this will improve in May?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,211

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20

    So just like everywhere else from late June then...
    Yes - you took the words from my mouth.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2021
    TOPPING said:

    If you think that in a universe somewhere there is a version of me who has just made himself a cup of coffee and milk and watched the milk separate perfectly to one corner of the cup, then it is not beyond the realms of the possible, perhaps probable that there is life somewhere.

    But I am in the camp of not knowing or really caring until one does an emergency landing on the A1(M) in front of me (not too close, mind).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3hJQbJbHbs
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20

    F8ck me THAT's where my donations are going?

  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,032
    edited April 2021
    Alternatively, ABC give Biden 52%, the lowest of all recent Presidents at this stage, except his immediate predecessor.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/550141-biden-approval-rating-stands-at-52-percent-after-almost-100-days-in

    There is clearly something of a range, with CBS at 58%.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,396
    On aliens.
    I understand there is a lot of chatter about right now.
    Can anyone kindly direct me to a non-partisan, non-technical, non-loony summary article or website on what exactly is happening?
    Cheers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20

    So just like everywhere else from late June then...
    I suspect there will be facemasks still required in some pubs, certainly inside and until all are vaccinated
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    dixiedean said:

    On aliens.
    I understand there is a lot of chatter about right now.
    Can anyone kindly direct me to a non-partisan, non-technical, non-loony summary article or website on what exactly is happening?
    Cheers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE
  • dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20

    Pity it isn't with the London UKIP candidate.
    Fox and Gammons is branding genius.
    "Gammons" could be the name of their in-house brewery. Ruddy-faced angry gentleman walks up to the bar, and asks nice Mr Fox for a pint of Gammons.

    Perfick.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,807
    dixiedean said:

    On aliens.
    I understand there is a lot of chatter about right now.
    Can anyone kindly direct me to a non-partisan, non-technical, non-loony summary article or website on what exactly is happening?
    Cheers.

    https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/science-technology/aliens-keep-putting-off-earth-visit-2014031
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,157

    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369

    Quite good for a Tuesday.

    600k day tomorrow?

    Anyone have a Required Run Rate for next targets?
    Which target do you want ?

    The USA actually overtook us today in terms of doses/population*. They won't stay ahead.

    * If you accept population figures of 67,886,004** & 331002647 as the raw populations

    ** ONS uses 66,796,807 as the estimate.

    All adults first dose by end of July will be hit very very easily.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,390
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20

    So just like everywhere else from late June then...
    I suspect there will be facemasks still required in some pubs, certainly inside and until all are vaccinated
    That does not match with 'no restrictions' from June the XX. Of course private business can keep mask wearing, but that might hit their custom (or not - people are weird, and some may be happier to still wear masks).
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    Vaccine success in UK

    That nice Mr Drakeford knocking it out of the Park

    Wee Jimmy now a comfortable 2nd

    King Liar and the DUP failing miserably to keep up with the progressives

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55855220
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
    The Great Filter could be one of many things:

    1 - Very rare abiogenesis (the precise circumstances by which self-replicating organisms can come about are rare and/or subject to extreme chance. For example, I've seen it posited that a large Moon to flex the crust in order to have sufficient activity (radioactive minerals close to the surface and/or volcanic activity that's just right and not too much) could be necessary. Not sure how likely that is)
    2 - Very rare evolution of communicative intelligence (we, as a species, only turned up very late in the day and by chance that an ecological niche opened up that was compatible with evolving intelligence.)
    3 - Limited Lifespan (intelligent life becomes dependent on a whole lot of things, including not destroying itself, and its capacity to change its own environment in such a way that its own continued existence gets limited becomes too great)
    4 - Dark Forest (the first intelligence to get interstellar travel destroys all others simply because the capacity for destruction from new, immature intelligences, is too dangerous. Thus any surviving intelligences stay very very quiet)
    5 - No Interstellar Travel (The distances between stars are just too great. There is no FTL and sublight travel is economically unviable, even for seedships)
    6 - Timing (The conditions for intelligent life to evolve are very dependent on such things as second generation stars, having sufficient time to develop, not having serious destructive events, and it is only recently that such conditions have come about)
    7 - All of the above.
    There are 2,000,000,000,000 galaxies. Each galaxy contains ~ 100,000,000,000 stars. Most stars have multiple planets, say ~5.

    So, there are ~ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the Universe. And these planets will have evolved over many 1,000, 000,000,000 years. There is plenty of opportunity for very rare events to have happened many, many times.

    (I think of your list, only 5 is likely to be correct -- though that does not mean we cannot detect life because we may gain evidence via spectroscopy. In fact, I think that is much the most likely bio-signature. Point 3 is certainly true, though we know life on Earth has persisted over 3.7 Gyrs, only a bit shorter than age of the Earth)

    Must go, now.
    Many 1,000, 000,000,000 years? I thought the universe was only about 14,000,000,000 years old.

    I find it bad form to do that "Must go" thing. If you are going to make a post which is part of a conversation either give an opportunity to respond or don't post.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    That nice Mr Drakeford has now vaccinated:-

    69.1% of those in their 40s - nearly 271,000 - had a first dose while 51,689 (13.2%) have had both doses.
    More than 36% of those in their 30s (153,756) have had a first dose.
    Of those aged 18 to 29, 96,586 (20.8%) have had a first dose.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,834
    edited April 2021
    18 minutes video just published discussing a bookmaker's (Star Sports) take on politics (mainly Boris).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJQcwbcMopY
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    FPT - Philip
    “In decreasing order of plausibility:

    1: They said something innocent that is misconstrued by loons to be aliens.
    2: They said something dishonest for a political agenda, eg to get more money to Defence.
    3: Some other explanation.
    98: They are loons.
    99: Mulder was right, the truth is out there”

    It’s a nice sunny day and it’s always good fun to sit and chat about the Great Filter, the Drake Equation, the Dark Forest etc... even better with a cider in hand.

    There’s a more immediate question that I was hoping this forum of political experts could help me with? Why in the last year have a quite unusual collection of senior US political figures gone on the record to make quite extraordinary claims about UFOs? And started a very major congressional study into the topic, that has now squarely caught the attention of the US mainstream media?

    The statements include there being A LOT of multi point evidence (including satellite visuals, radar, sonar, close range videos) of them being tangible intelligently controlled, high tech objects (rather than glitches or misidentified balloons). That they can break the sound barrier without causing sonic booms? Can pull G force in the many hundreds. Leave no visible infrared signature from a propulsion system? Can traverse easily between air and water. That they interfere quite regularly with US military assets. That the US does not have air superiority over its own landmass AND UFO’S HAVE EVEN REMOTELY DEACTIVATED US NUKES.

    Philip prefers to not engage his brain with this topic rather than look carefully at what is being said by whom. Fair enough. It’s a hard topic.

    As for the rest of you, if this is all made up, what possible reason is there for such a conspiracy between political adversaries? Because that conspiracy itself would be the story of our time too.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,834
    Re Boris's flat.

    Dozy sod should have let squillionaire Chancellor Rishi take the Number 11 flat and then swapped after he'd done it up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369

    Quite good for a Tuesday.

    600k day tomorrow?

    Anyone have a Required Run Rate for next targets?
    Which target do you want ?

    The USA actually overtook us today in terms of doses/population*. They won't stay ahead.

    * If you accept population figures of 67,886,004** & 331002647 as the raw populations

    ** ONS uses 66,796,807 as the estimate.

    All adults first dose by end of July will be hit very very easily.
    According to Our World In Data we are very, very narrowly ahead of the USA on a same-date basis.

    If we went for targets of all vaccinated by end May, end June and end July (with 12 weeks kept for second doses) then what would be the RRR for those?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,834

    18 minutes video just published discussing a bookmaker's (Star Sports) take on politics (mainly Boris).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJQcwbcMopY

    Interesting take: there are so many Boris scandals that they cancel each other out.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,390
    moonshine said:

    FPT - Philip
    “In decreasing order of plausibility:

    1: They said something innocent that is misconstrued by loons to be aliens.
    2: They said something dishonest for a political agenda, eg to get more money to Defence.
    3: Some other explanation.
    98: They are loons.
    99: Mulder was right, the truth is out there”

    It’s a nice sunny day and it’s always good fun to sit and chat about the Great Filter, the Drake Equation, the Dark Forest etc... even better with a cider in hand.

    There’s a more immediate question that I was hoping this forum of political experts could help me with? Why in the last year have a quite unusual collection of senior US political figures gone on the record to make quite extraordinary claims about UFOs? And started a very major congressional study into the topic, that has now squarely caught the attention of the US mainstream media?

    The statements include there being A LOT of multi point evidence (including satellite visuals, radar, sonar, close range videos) of them being tangible intelligently controlled, high tech objects (rather than glitches or misidentified balloons). That they can break the sound barrier without causing sonic booms? Can pull G force in the many hundreds. Leave no visible infrared signature from a propulsion system? Can traverse easily between air and water. That they interfere quite regularly with US military assets. That the US does not have air superiority over its own landmass AND UFO’S HAVE EVEN REMOTELY DEACTIVATED US NUKES.

    Philip prefers to not engage his brain with this topic rather than look carefully at what is being said by whom. Fair enough. It’s a hard topic.

    As for the rest of you, if this is all made up, what possible reason is there for such a conspiracy between political adversaries? Because that conspiracy itself would be the story of our time too.

    The problem boils down to the Red Dwarf answer - for Rimmer, it's all evidence of aliens. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I don't see that evidence yet, and someone in an interview saying it exists isn't going to convince me.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,396
    moonshine said:

    FPT - Philip
    “In decreasing order of plausibility:

    1: They said something innocent that is misconstrued by loons to be aliens.
    2: They said something dishonest for a political agenda, eg to get more money to Defence.
    3: Some other explanation.
    98: They are loons.
    99: Mulder was right, the truth is out there”

    It’s a nice sunny day and it’s always good fun to sit and chat about the Great Filter, the Drake Equation, the Dark Forest etc... even better with a cider in hand.

    There’s a more immediate question that I was hoping this forum of political experts could help me with? Why in the last year have a quite unusual collection of senior US political figures gone on the record to make quite extraordinary claims about UFOs? And started a very major congressional study into the topic, that has now squarely caught the attention of the US mainstream media?

    The statements include there being A LOT of multi point evidence (including satellite visuals, radar, sonar, close range videos) of them being tangible intelligently controlled, high tech objects (rather than glitches or misidentified balloons). That they can break the sound barrier without causing sonic booms? Can pull G force in the many hundreds. Leave no visible infrared signature from a propulsion system? Can traverse easily between air and water. That they interfere quite regularly with US military assets. That the US does not have air superiority over its own landmass AND UFO’S HAVE EVEN REMOTELY DEACTIVATED US NUKES.

    Philip prefers to not engage his brain with this topic rather than look carefully at what is being said by whom. Fair enough. It’s a hard topic.

    As for the rest of you, if this is all made up, what possible reason is there for such a conspiracy between political adversaries? Because that conspiracy itself would be the story of our time too.

    Because pandemic?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    Pulpstar said:

    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369

    Quite good for a Tuesday.

    600k day tomorrow?

    Anyone have a Required Run Rate for next targets?
    Which target do you want ?

    The USA actually overtook us today in terms of doses/population*. They won't stay ahead.

    * If you accept population figures of 67,886,004** & 331002647 as the raw populations

    ** ONS uses 66,796,807 as the estimate.

    All adults first dose by end of July will be hit very very easily.
    US has 29.2% fully vaccinated

    UK has 19.3% fully vaccinated (inflated by that nice Mr Drakeford's 21.6%!

    https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/?areas=gbr&areas=isr&areas=usa&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,834
    Dominic Cummings responded after Boris was said to have phoned the press to falsely blame Cummings for leaking.

    Shades of David Kelly?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,211
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20

    So just like everywhere else from late June then...
    I suspect there will be facemasks still required in some pubs, certainly inside and until all are vaccinated
    Not from 21 June without breaching road map. If pubs do this it will be through their choice and they will get a stinging TripAdviser review from me if they do.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    moonshine said:

    FPT - Philip
    “In decreasing order of plausibility:

    1: They said something innocent that is misconstrued by loons to be aliens.
    2: They said something dishonest for a political agenda, eg to get more money to Defence.
    3: Some other explanation.
    98: They are loons.
    99: Mulder was right, the truth is out there”

    It’s a nice sunny day and it’s always good fun to sit and chat about the Great Filter, the Drake Equation, the Dark Forest etc... even better with a cider in hand.

    There’s a more immediate question that I was hoping this forum of political experts could help me with? Why in the last year have a quite unusual collection of senior US political figures gone on the record to make quite extraordinary claims about UFOs? And started a very major congressional study into the topic, that has now squarely caught the attention of the US mainstream media?

    The statements include there being A LOT of multi point evidence (including satellite visuals, radar, sonar, close range videos) of them being tangible intelligently controlled, high tech objects (rather than glitches or misidentified balloons). That they can break the sound barrier without causing sonic booms? Can pull G force in the many hundreds. Leave no visible infrared signature from a propulsion system? Can traverse easily between air and water. That they interfere quite regularly with US military assets. That the US does not have air superiority over its own landmass AND UFO’S HAVE EVEN REMOTELY DEACTIVATED US NUKES.

    Philip prefers to not engage his brain with this topic rather than look carefully at what is being said by whom. Fair enough. It’s a hard topic.

    As for the rest of you, if this is all made up, what possible reason is there for such a conspiracy between political adversaries? Because that conspiracy itself would be the story of our time too.

    If mainstream media are reporting that UFOs have deactivated nukes then please provide a mainstream source like CNN etc saying that.

    Not some batshit crazy lunatic on YouTube.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,714
    FPT:

    Mr. Gate, I refuse to believe that the most advanced civilisation in the universe came within a few thousand votes of having Jeremy Corbyn lead a major part of it.

    I hadn't realised Corbyn was so popular with mice! :wink:
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,936

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20

    So just like everywhere else from late June then...
    I suspect there will be facemasks still required in some pubs, certainly inside and until all are vaccinated
    That does not match with 'no restrictions' from June the XX. Of course private business can keep mask wearing, but that might hit their custom (or not - people are weird, and some may be happier to still wear masks).
    It's going to be quite a dramatic change, albeit we have two months to go.

    I "popped" into a cafe the other day

    "Do I just take a seat?"
    "No - go to the registration desk, fill out a form, give us your email and telephone number and wait there plus put your mask on".

    This has become the norm.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,925

    Pulpstar said:

    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369

    Quite good for a Tuesday.

    600k day tomorrow?

    Anyone have a Required Run Rate for next targets?
    Which target do you want ?

    The USA actually overtook us today in terms of doses/population*. They won't stay ahead.

    * If you accept population figures of 67,886,004** & 331002647 as the raw populations

    ** ONS uses 66,796,807 as the estimate.

    All adults first dose by end of July will be hit very very easily.
    US has 29.2% fully vaccinated

    UK has 19.3% fully vaccinated (inflated by that nice Mr Drakeford's 21.6%!

    https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/?areas=gbr&areas=isr&areas=usa&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1

    Are we still using the phrase fully vaccinated given how efficacious the vaccines are even after one dose? Comparing how many people are protected is more important.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    dixiedean said:

    On aliens.
    I understand there is a lot of chatter about right now.
    Can anyone kindly direct me to a non-partisan, non-technical, non-loony summary article or website on what exactly is happening?
    Cheers.

    https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364

    This series of videos (1/3) from last week is a panel from the mainstream media in the US interviewing Lue Elizondo, who headed the Pentagon’s investigative unit into UFO.

    There are any number or articles and videos from the likes of NY Times and NBC discussing the congressional process and with interviews with the senior individuals I mentioned earlier.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,157
    Stocky said:

    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369

    I assume the low first dose figures are still due to April supply constraints. Do we know that this will improve in May?
    The requirement for second doses is lower after the end of this week as we're hitting the 2nd dose requirement (At +77 days) for the mid February surge that was required to vaccinated groups 1 - 4.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,765
    edited April 2021
    Stocky said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20

    So just like everywhere else from late June then...
    I suspect there will be facemasks still required in some pubs, certainly inside and until all are vaccinated
    Not from 21 June without breaching road map. If pubs do this it will be through their choice and they will get a stinging TripAdviser review from me if they do.
    I suspect the road map will change, or be backpedalled from.
    Few places will be voluntarily insisting on facemasks. But there will be a lot of political pressure not to let up with the masks. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the government doesn't cave in to the pressure and retain the rules which keep them in place. It would be gratifyingly uncharacteristic of them if it did.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    There is a lone protester outside parliament right now while the cladding debate goes on, holding an advertisement asking for a "Tory donor to pay to replace my flammable cladding".
    https://twitter.com/PronouncedAlva/status/1387036021552914444
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,936
    moonshine said:

    FPT - Philip
    “In decreasing order of plausibility:

    1: They said something innocent that is misconstrued by loons to be aliens.
    2: They said something dishonest for a political agenda, eg to get more money to Defence.
    3: Some other explanation.
    98: They are loons.
    99: Mulder was right, the truth is out there”

    It’s a nice sunny day and it’s always good fun to sit and chat about the Great Filter, the Drake Equation, the Dark Forest etc... even better with a cider in hand.

    There’s a more immediate question that I was hoping this forum of political experts could help me with? Why in the last year have a quite unusual collection of senior US political figures gone on the record to make quite extraordinary claims about UFOs? And started a very major congressional study into the topic, that has now squarely caught the attention of the US mainstream media?

    The statements include there being A LOT of multi point evidence (including satellite visuals, radar, sonar, close range videos) of them being tangible intelligently controlled, high tech objects (rather than glitches or misidentified balloons). That they can break the sound barrier without causing sonic booms? Can pull G force in the many hundreds. Leave no visible infrared signature from a propulsion system? Can traverse easily between air and water. That they interfere quite regularly with US military assets. That the US does not have air superiority over its own landmass AND UFO’S HAVE EVEN REMOTELY DEACTIVATED US NUKES.

    Philip prefers to not engage his brain with this topic rather than look carefully at what is being said by whom. Fair enough. It’s a hard topic.

    As for the rest of you, if this is all made up, what possible reason is there for such a conspiracy between political adversaries? Because that conspiracy itself would be the story of our time too.

    Nice post.

    But could do with being 60% shorter.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,834
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    John Major seen as the most trustworthy ex PM now followed by Brown (Starmer on the same rating as Brown), Cameron seen as the most untrustworthy ex PM, followed by Blair with Johnson seen as 10% less untrustworthy than Blair and 15% less untrustworthy than Cameron

    https://twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/1387023670435061763?s=20
    There seems to be a correlation between trustworthiness and uselessness.
    Eh? In order of usefulness: Brown saved the world; Major ended the poll tax; Cameron Brexited *by accident*.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,925
    IshmaelZ said:

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
    The Great Filter could be one of many things:

    1 - Very rare abiogenesis (the precise circumstances by which self-replicating organisms can come about are rare and/or subject to extreme chance. For example, I've seen it posited that a large Moon to flex the crust in order to have sufficient activity (radioactive minerals close to the surface and/or volcanic activity that's just right and not too much) could be necessary. Not sure how likely that is)
    2 - Very rare evolution of communicative intelligence (we, as a species, only turned up very late in the day and by chance that an ecological niche opened up that was compatible with evolving intelligence.)
    3 - Limited Lifespan (intelligent life becomes dependent on a whole lot of things, including not destroying itself, and its capacity to change its own environment in such a way that its own continued existence gets limited becomes too great)
    4 - Dark Forest (the first intelligence to get interstellar travel destroys all others simply because the capacity for destruction from new, immature intelligences, is too dangerous. Thus any surviving intelligences stay very very quiet)
    5 - No Interstellar Travel (The distances between stars are just too great. There is no FTL and sublight travel is economically unviable, even for seedships)
    6 - Timing (The conditions for intelligent life to evolve are very dependent on such things as second generation stars, having sufficient time to develop, not having serious destructive events, and it is only recently that such conditions have come about)
    7 - All of the above.
    There are 2,000,000,000,000 galaxies. Each galaxy contains ~ 100,000,000,000 stars. Most stars have multiple planets, say ~5.

    So, there are ~ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the Universe. And these planets will have evolved over many 1,000, 000,000,000 years. There is plenty of opportunity for very rare events to have happened many, many times.

    (I think of your list, only 5 is likely to be correct -- though that does not mean we cannot detect life because we may gain evidence via spectroscopy. In fact, I think that is much the most likely bio-signature. Point 3 is certainly true, though we know life on Earth has persisted over 3.7 Gyrs, only a bit shorter than age of the Earth)

    Must go, now.
    Many 1,000, 000,000,000 years? I thought the universe was only about 14,000,000,000 years old.

    I find it bad form to do that "Must go" thing. If you are going to make a post which is part of a conversation either give an opportunity to respond or don't post.
    Life formed almost immediately* after the Earth formed. You don't need many billions of years to get the ball rolling.

    *geologically speaking.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lawrence Fox and Richard Tice buying a pub together called 'The Fox and Tice.'

    There will be no facemasks needed by customers and no vaccine passports required

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1387031065202671617?s=20

    So just like everywhere else from late June then...
    I suspect there will be facemasks still required in some pubs, certainly inside and until all are vaccinated
    Quite tricky for pubs to serve their principal purpose if people are required to wear facemasks. Certainly without said masks getting somewhat moist.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Pulpstar said:

    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369

    Quite good for a Tuesday.

    600k day tomorrow?

    Anyone have a Required Run Rate for next targets?
    Which target do you want ?

    The USA actually overtook us today in terms of doses/population*. They won't stay ahead.

    * If you accept population figures of 67,886,004** & 331002647 as the raw populations

    ** ONS uses 66,796,807 as the estimate.

    All adults first dose by end of July will be hit very very easily.
    US has 29.2% fully vaccinated

    UK has 19.3% fully vaccinated (inflated by that nice Mr Drakeford's 21.6%!

    https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/?areas=gbr&areas=isr&areas=usa&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1

    First doses matter more than fully vaccinated does and the UK is at about 50% for that.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369

    Quite good for a Tuesday.

    600k day tomorrow?

    Anyone have a Required Run Rate for next targets?
    Which target do you want ?

    The USA actually overtook us today in terms of doses/population*. They won't stay ahead.

    * If you accept population figures of 67,886,004** & 331002647 as the raw populations

    ** ONS uses 66,796,807 as the estimate.

    All adults first dose by end of July will be hit very very easily.
    US has 29.2% fully vaccinated

    UK has 19.3% fully vaccinated (inflated by that nice Mr Drakeford's 21.6%!

    https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/?areas=gbr&areas=isr&areas=usa&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1

    Are we still using the phrase fully vaccinated given how efficacious the vaccines are even after one dose? Comparing how many people are protected is more important.
    Yep the FT VACCINE TRACKER is

    Perhaps you could write a "reader letter" explaining why they shouldn't
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    moonshine said:

    FPT - Philip
    “In decreasing order of plausibility:

    1: They said something innocent that is misconstrued by loons to be aliens.
    2: They said something dishonest for a political agenda, eg to get more money to Defence.
    3: Some other explanation.
    98: They are loons.
    99: Mulder was right, the truth is out there”

    It’s a nice sunny day and it’s always good fun to sit and chat about the Great Filter, the Drake Equation, the Dark Forest etc... even better with a cider in hand.

    There’s a more immediate question that I was hoping this forum of political experts could help me with? Why in the last year have a quite unusual collection of senior US political figures gone on the record to make quite extraordinary claims about UFOs? And started a very major congressional study into the topic, that has now squarely caught the attention of the US mainstream media?

    The statements include there being A LOT of multi point evidence (including satellite visuals, radar, sonar, close range videos) of them being tangible intelligently controlled, high tech objects (rather than glitches or misidentified balloons). That they can break the sound barrier without causing sonic booms? Can pull G force in the many hundreds. Leave no visible infrared signature from a propulsion system? Can traverse easily between air and water. That they interfere quite regularly with US military assets. That the US does not have air superiority over its own landmass AND UFO’S HAVE EVEN REMOTELY DEACTIVATED US NUKES.

    Philip prefers to not engage his brain with this topic rather than look carefully at what is being said by whom. Fair enough. It’s a hard topic.

    As for the rest of you, if this is all made up, what possible reason is there for such a conspiracy between political adversaries? Because that conspiracy itself would be the story of our time too.

    If mainstream media are reporting that UFOs have deactivated nukes then please provide a mainstream source like CNN etc saying that.

    Not some batshit crazy lunatic on YouTube.
    The interview I sent was with the NY Times and NBC with the person formerly charged by the DOD and Congress to impartially assess the evidence. Since he made that statement, Harry Reid has in writing confirmed his credentials.

    You can keep throwing around mental health slurs on this topic if it makes you sleep soundly but it doesn’t answer my question, why so many senior individuals in the US are suddenly going on the record about this.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,396
    moonshine said:

    dixiedean said:

    On aliens.
    I understand there is a lot of chatter about right now.
    Can anyone kindly direct me to a non-partisan, non-technical, non-loony summary article or website on what exactly is happening?
    Cheers.

    https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364

    This series of videos (1/3) from last week is a panel from the mainstream media in the US interviewing Lue Elizondo, who headed the Pentagon’s investigative unit into UFO.

    There are any number or articles and videos from the likes of NY Times and NBC discussing the congressional process and with interviews with the senior individuals I mentioned earlier.
    Thank you. I only recently became aware this was a thing. Time to research. Cheers!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
    The Great Filter could be one of many things:

    1 - Very rare abiogenesis (the precise circumstances by which self-replicating organisms can come about are rare and/or subject to extreme chance. For example, I've seen it posited that a large Moon to flex the crust in order to have sufficient activity (radioactive minerals close to the surface and/or volcanic activity that's just right and not too much) could be necessary. Not sure how likely that is)
    2 - Very rare evolution of communicative intelligence (we, as a species, only turned up very late in the day and by chance that an ecological niche opened up that was compatible with evolving intelligence.)
    3 - Limited Lifespan (intelligent life becomes dependent on a whole lot of things, including not destroying itself, and its capacity to change its own environment in such a way that its own continued existence gets limited becomes too great)
    4 - Dark Forest (the first intelligence to get interstellar travel destroys all others simply because the capacity for destruction from new, immature intelligences, is too dangerous. Thus any surviving intelligences stay very very quiet)
    5 - No Interstellar Travel (The distances between stars are just too great. There is no FTL and sublight travel is economically unviable, even for seedships)
    6 - Timing (The conditions for intelligent life to evolve are very dependent on such things as second generation stars, having sufficient time to develop, not having serious destructive events, and it is only recently that such conditions have come about)
    7 - All of the above.
    There are 2,000,000,000,000 galaxies. Each galaxy contains ~ 100,000,000,000 stars. Most stars have multiple planets, say ~5.

    So, there are ~ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the Universe. And these planets will have evolved over many 1,000, 000,000,000 years. There is plenty of opportunity for very rare events to have happened many, many times.

    (I think of your list, only 5 is likely to be correct -- though that does not mean we cannot detect life because we may gain evidence via spectroscopy. In fact, I think that is much the most likely bio-signature. Point 3 is certainly true, though we know life on Earth has persisted over 3.7 Gyrs, only a bit shorter than age of the Earth)

    Must go, now.
    Many 1,000, 000,000,000 years? I thought the universe was only about 14,000,000,000 years old.

    I find it bad form to do that "Must go" thing. If you are going to make a post which is part of a conversation either give an opportunity to respond or don't post.
    Life formed almost immediately* after the Earth formed. You don't need many billions of years to get the ball rolling.

    *geologically speaking.
    Unless life came to Earth from elsewhere - a perfectly respectable hypothesis.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    moonshine said:

    dixiedean said:

    On aliens.
    I understand there is a lot of chatter about right now.
    Can anyone kindly direct me to a non-partisan, non-technical, non-loony summary article or website on what exactly is happening?
    Cheers.

    https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364

    This series of videos (1/3) from last week is a panel from the mainstream media in the US interviewing Lue Elizondo, who headed the Pentagon’s investigative unit into UFO.

    There are any number or articles and videos from the likes of NY Times and NBC discussing the congressional process and with interviews with the senior individuals I mentioned earlier.
    Crazy rants from lunatics on YouTube isn't real news.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Thoughts and prayers with @MrEd etc etc

    ??
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655

    Pulpstar said:

    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369

    Quite good for a Tuesday.

    600k day tomorrow?

    Anyone have a Required Run Rate for next targets?
    Which target do you want ?

    The USA actually overtook us today in terms of doses/population*. They won't stay ahead.

    * If you accept population figures of 67,886,004** & 331002647 as the raw populations

    ** ONS uses 66,796,807 as the estimate.

    All adults first dose by end of July will be hit very very easily.
    US has 29.2% fully vaccinated

    UK has 19.3% fully vaccinated (inflated by that nice Mr Drakeford's 21.6%!

    https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/?areas=gbr&areas=isr&areas=usa&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1

    First doses matter more than fully vaccinated does and the UK is at about 50% for that.
    Wales is at 56.4%
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309
    FPT
    Cicero said:

    » show previous quotes
    Blimey, for once I actually agree with HYFUD. By elections are not predictive of a whole lot, though FWIW I think the Tories will still struggle to win Hartlepool. Even if they were to win there and win in WM, they will not win in London, and may be thumped.

    As far as Scotland is concerned, the feeling on the ground seems like the big news will be a setback for the SNP. How big a setback, I am not sure, but the tide is definately running away from them and Labour and the Lib Dems rather than the Tories will be the beneficiaries. Alba may get in, but effectively they are damaging the SNP vote, not extending it. The post election fall out amongst the Nationalists could be very bitter indeed. The Tories without Ruth are also going backwards

    So, in judging the overall national picture, the Tories will probably be able to point to WM and maybe Wales and Hartlepool and want to downplay London and Scotland. Labour will highlight London and possibly Scotland and downplay WM and possibly Hartlepool. The Lib Dems will not be massacred and could be on for a respectable result overall, but masking very poor results in Wales and parts of England with a solid performance elsewhere. Overall, my feeling is that it will be a bit curates egg for all the parties, with no real overall winner, even if the spin decides otherwise.

    How does ALBA hurt SNP, they are only on the list and SNP get almost no seats on List, any seats ALBA get will be from unionists. You do not seem to understand how it works at Holyrood and it will in fact strengthen independence parties a lot.
    Once court cases are over it is likely Sturgeon will be gone and even if not her feet will be held to the fire by Alba and she will possibly lose many to them if she continues as previously.
    Looking like a really good election for independence supporters , which to cover the continuing ignorance on here, does not mean SNP.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    moonshine said:

    dixiedean said:

    On aliens.
    I understand there is a lot of chatter about right now.
    Can anyone kindly direct me to a non-partisan, non-technical, non-loony summary article or website on what exactly is happening?
    Cheers.

    https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364

    This series of videos (1/3) from last week is a panel from the mainstream media in the US interviewing Lue Elizondo, who headed the Pentagon’s investigative unit into UFO.

    There are any number or articles and videos from the likes of NY Times and NBC discussing the congressional process and with interviews with the senior individuals I mentioned earlier.
    Crazy rants from lunatics on YouTube isn't real news.
    What about ex heads of the CIA? Ex presidential candidates? Ex US cabinet members? Ex senate majority leaders?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    French Europe Minister Clément Beaune has accused the UK of blocking fishing rights. He said the EU could respond with "reprisals" in financial services.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    FPT - Philip
    “In decreasing order of plausibility:

    1: They said something innocent that is misconstrued by loons to be aliens.
    2: They said something dishonest for a political agenda, eg to get more money to Defence.
    3: Some other explanation.
    98: They are loons.
    99: Mulder was right, the truth is out there”

    It’s a nice sunny day and it’s always good fun to sit and chat about the Great Filter, the Drake Equation, the Dark Forest etc... even better with a cider in hand.

    There’s a more immediate question that I was hoping this forum of political experts could help me with? Why in the last year have a quite unusual collection of senior US political figures gone on the record to make quite extraordinary claims about UFOs? And started a very major congressional study into the topic, that has now squarely caught the attention of the US mainstream media?

    The statements include there being A LOT of multi point evidence (including satellite visuals, radar, sonar, close range videos) of them being tangible intelligently controlled, high tech objects (rather than glitches or misidentified balloons). That they can break the sound barrier without causing sonic booms? Can pull G force in the many hundreds. Leave no visible infrared signature from a propulsion system? Can traverse easily between air and water. That they interfere quite regularly with US military assets. That the US does not have air superiority over its own landmass AND UFO’S HAVE EVEN REMOTELY DEACTIVATED US NUKES.

    Philip prefers to not engage his brain with this topic rather than look carefully at what is being said by whom. Fair enough. It’s a hard topic.

    As for the rest of you, if this is all made up, what possible reason is there for such a conspiracy between political adversaries? Because that conspiracy itself would be the story of our time too.

    If mainstream media are reporting that UFOs have deactivated nukes then please provide a mainstream source like CNN etc saying that.

    Not some batshit crazy lunatic on YouTube.
    The interview I sent was with the NY Times and NBC with the person formerly charged by the DOD and Congress to impartially assess the evidence. Since he made that statement, Harry Reid has in writing confirmed his credentials.

    You can keep throwing around mental health slurs on this topic if it makes you sleep soundly but it doesn’t answer my question, why so many senior individuals in the US are suddenly going on the record about this.
    Until it's reported somewhere other than YouTube I think the simple answer is: they're not.

    It's exceedingly easy on YouTube to take things people have said and twist them into giving a completely different picture. Total mendacious crap.
  • Re Boris's flat.

    Dozy sod should have let squillionaire Chancellor Rishi take the Number 11 flat and then swapped after he'd done it up.

    Amusing, although Johnson had moved in a good six months before Sunak became Chancellor (although the joke also works with Sajid Javid, who earned a pretty penny at Deutsche Bank).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,925

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369

    Quite good for a Tuesday.

    600k day tomorrow?

    Anyone have a Required Run Rate for next targets?
    Which target do you want ?

    The USA actually overtook us today in terms of doses/population*. They won't stay ahead.

    * If you accept population figures of 67,886,004** & 331002647 as the raw populations

    ** ONS uses 66,796,807 as the estimate.

    All adults first dose by end of July will be hit very very easily.
    US has 29.2% fully vaccinated

    UK has 19.3% fully vaccinated (inflated by that nice Mr Drakeford's 21.6%!

    https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/?areas=gbr&areas=isr&areas=usa&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1

    Are we still using the phrase fully vaccinated given how efficacious the vaccines are even after one dose? Comparing how many people are protected is more important.
    Yep the FT VACCINE TRACKER is

    Perhaps you could write a "reader letter" explaining why they shouldn't
    Well it's a stupid thing to track. What is most important is how many are protected. It has been shown that doing a single dose on more people is better than two doses on fewer, at least with the vaccines the UK is using.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    dixiedean said:

    On aliens.
    I understand there is a lot of chatter about right now.
    Can anyone kindly direct me to a non-partisan, non-technical, non-loony summary article or website on what exactly is happening?
    Cheers.

    https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364

    This series of videos (1/3) from last week is a panel from the mainstream media in the US interviewing Lue Elizondo, who headed the Pentagon’s investigative unit into UFO.

    There are any number or articles and videos from the likes of NY Times and NBC discussing the congressional process and with interviews with the senior individuals I mentioned earlier.
    Crazy rants from lunatics on YouTube isn't real news.
    What about ex heads of the CIA? Ex presidential candidates? Ex US cabinet members? Ex senate majority leaders?
    Non-YouTube serious news website link to any of them saying this please.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,936
    ping said:

    TOPPING said:

    If you think that in a universe somewhere there is a version of me who has just made himself a cup of coffee and milk and watched the milk separate perfectly to one corner of the cup, then it is not beyond the realms of the possible, perhaps probable that there is life somewhere.

    But I am in the camp of not knowing or really caring until one does an emergency landing on the A1(M) in front of me (not too close, mind).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3hJQbJbHbs
    LOL I hadn't seen that. That's the M1 of course, not the A1 which just goes to show how aliens can get it wrong.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Stocky said:

    395,383 new vaccinations registered in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 67,483 1st doses / 249,768 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 8,392 / 33,986
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 7,972 / 11,565
    NI 6,848 / 9,369

    I assume the low first dose figures are still due to April supply constraints. Do we know that this will improve in May?
    The requirement for second doses is lower after the end of this week as we're hitting the 2nd dose requirement (At +77 days) for the mid February surge that was required to vaccinated groups 1 - 4.
    Yeah, Scotland 2nd doses is ruthlessly tracking their lagged 1st dose total. I'm expecting Scotland first doses to leap next week.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,925
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
    The Great Filter could be one of many things:

    1 - Very rare abiogenesis (the precise circumstances by which self-replicating organisms can come about are rare and/or subject to extreme chance. For example, I've seen it posited that a large Moon to flex the crust in order to have sufficient activity (radioactive minerals close to the surface and/or volcanic activity that's just right and not too much) could be necessary. Not sure how likely that is)
    2 - Very rare evolution of communicative intelligence (we, as a species, only turned up very late in the day and by chance that an ecological niche opened up that was compatible with evolving intelligence.)
    3 - Limited Lifespan (intelligent life becomes dependent on a whole lot of things, including not destroying itself, and its capacity to change its own environment in such a way that its own continued existence gets limited becomes too great)
    4 - Dark Forest (the first intelligence to get interstellar travel destroys all others simply because the capacity for destruction from new, immature intelligences, is too dangerous. Thus any surviving intelligences stay very very quiet)
    5 - No Interstellar Travel (The distances between stars are just too great. There is no FTL and sublight travel is economically unviable, even for seedships)
    6 - Timing (The conditions for intelligent life to evolve are very dependent on such things as second generation stars, having sufficient time to develop, not having serious destructive events, and it is only recently that such conditions have come about)
    7 - All of the above.
    There are 2,000,000,000,000 galaxies. Each galaxy contains ~ 100,000,000,000 stars. Most stars have multiple planets, say ~5.

    So, there are ~ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the Universe. And these planets will have evolved over many 1,000, 000,000,000 years. There is plenty of opportunity for very rare events to have happened many, many times.

    (I think of your list, only 5 is likely to be correct -- though that does not mean we cannot detect life because we may gain evidence via spectroscopy. In fact, I think that is much the most likely bio-signature. Point 3 is certainly true, though we know life on Earth has persisted over 3.7 Gyrs, only a bit shorter than age of the Earth)

    Must go, now.
    Many 1,000, 000,000,000 years? I thought the universe was only about 14,000,000,000 years old.

    I find it bad form to do that "Must go" thing. If you are going to make a post which is part of a conversation either give an opportunity to respond or don't post.
    Life formed almost immediately* after the Earth formed. You don't need many billions of years to get the ball rolling.

    *geologically speaking.
    Unless life came to Earth from elsewhere - a perfectly respectable hypothesis.
    Yeah, that's another interesting theory. It also implies a high occurrence rate, given it happened so early.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,390
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    dixiedean said:

    On aliens.
    I understand there is a lot of chatter about right now.
    Can anyone kindly direct me to a non-partisan, non-technical, non-loony summary article or website on what exactly is happening?
    Cheers.

    https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364

    This series of videos (1/3) from last week is a panel from the mainstream media in the US interviewing Lue Elizondo, who headed the Pentagon’s investigative unit into UFO.

    There are any number or articles and videos from the likes of NY Times and NBC discussing the congressional process and with interviews with the senior individuals I mentioned earlier.
    Crazy rants from lunatics on YouTube isn't real news.
    What about ex heads of the CIA? Ex presidential candidates? Ex US cabinet members? Ex senate majority leaders?
    And again - Ex. Why not current?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Mr. Gate, we don't know if complex life is unlikely. Our basis of comparison is minimal.

    It might be really common.

    There might also be an inherent conflict between adaptability and inventiveness on one side, and instability and chaos on the other. Civilisations capable of making more powerful weapons may be prone to self-annihilation.

    But that's all I'm saying. We don't know.

    Life may be common and may be really uncommon.

    If it is really uncommon, it's possible that we are most advanced civilisation in the universe. It's not a totally ridiculous assertion.

    We may never know...
    Look in any astronomy textbook before 1992. The book will tell you that solar systems & planets like the Earth are incredibly rare. "The Earth is Special".

    We now know that planets -- and even planets like the Earth -- are incredibly common. The Earth is not special.

    There was no evidence that planets were common ... until they were discovered to be common. That happened as soon as we got instruments sensitive enough to detect them.

    Ditto life.

    Once there are instruments sensitive to detect bio-signatures (e.g. spectroscopic evidence of DNA), then it will be detected. It will probably happen within the decade. We're not special.
    The Great Filter could be one of many things:

    1 - Very rare abiogenesis (the precise circumstances by which self-replicating organisms can come about are rare and/or subject to extreme chance. For example, I've seen it posited that a large Moon to flex the crust in order to have sufficient activity (radioactive minerals close to the surface and/or volcanic activity that's just right and not too much) could be necessary. Not sure how likely that is)
    2 - Very rare evolution of communicative intelligence (we, as a species, only turned up very late in the day and by chance that an ecological niche opened up that was compatible with evolving intelligence.)
    3 - Limited Lifespan (intelligent life becomes dependent on a whole lot of things, including not destroying itself, and its capacity to change its own environment in such a way that its own continued existence gets limited becomes too great)
    4 - Dark Forest (the first intelligence to get interstellar travel destroys all others simply because the capacity for destruction from new, immature intelligences, is too dangerous. Thus any surviving intelligences stay very very quiet)
    5 - No Interstellar Travel (The distances between stars are just too great. There is no FTL and sublight travel is economically unviable, even for seedships)
    6 - Timing (The conditions for intelligent life to evolve are very dependent on such things as second generation stars, having sufficient time to develop, not having serious destructive events, and it is only recently that such conditions have come about)
    7 - All of the above.
    There are 2,000,000,000,000 galaxies. Each galaxy contains ~ 100,000,000,000 stars. Most stars have multiple planets, say ~5.

    So, there are ~ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the Universe. And these planets will have evolved over many 1,000, 000,000,000 years. There is plenty of opportunity for very rare events to have happened many, many times.

    (I think of your list, only 5 is likely to be correct -- though that does not mean we cannot detect life because we may gain evidence via spectroscopy. In fact, I think that is much the most likely bio-signature. Point 3 is certainly true, though we know life on Earth has persisted over 3.7 Gyrs, only a bit shorter than age of the Earth)

    Must go, now.
    Many 1,000, 000,000,000 years? I thought the universe was only about 14,000,000,000 years old.

    I find it bad form to do that "Must go" thing. If you are going to make a post which is part of a conversation either give an opportunity to respond or don't post.
    Life formed almost immediately* after the Earth formed. You don't need many billions of years to get the ball rolling.

    *geologically speaking.
    Unless life came to Earth from elsewhere - a perfectly respectable hypothesis.
    There’s a view that the first X billion years were too volatile for life to sustain itself in any reasonable way, and that away from the fringes of the Galaxy this remains true today. But it still leaves a lot of time and space to play with.

    To me if the UFO phenomenon is confirmed as legit by the US government (I should say President at this point given who else already spoke), it seems obvious to me that they were probably here before we were. Play your own game as to what that means.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    The universe is only 13billion years old. It's actually still very young considering its supposed to go on for several trillion years yet. The earth is 4.5 billion years old, and life evolved fairly early on, 3.7 billion years ago. However the first multicellular life took another few billion years to evolve after that, and we have only been around for a miniscule amount of time (and are still nowhere near colonising Mars let along interstellar space).

    Additionally, our Solar system is actually somewhat rare - most Stars are red dwarfs and few solar systems we've discovered so far resemble anything like ours. So we may be overestimating how many habitable planets there really are.

    Considering our planet has been around for a third of the entire lifetime of the universe and we are the closest it's come to intelligent life, it doesn't seem that implausible that while primitive life is everywhere, we are one of the most advanced, or that other advanced races are not yet so far ahead of us that they can freely travel galaxies etc.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    moonshine said:

    FPT - Philip
    “In decreasing order of plausibility:

    1: They said something innocent that is misconstrued by loons to be aliens.
    2: They said something dishonest for a political agenda, eg to get more money to Defence.
    3: Some other explanation.
    98: They are loons.
    99: Mulder was right, the truth is out there”

    It’s a nice sunny day and it’s always good fun to sit and chat about the Great Filter, the Drake Equation, the Dark Forest etc... even better with a cider in hand.

    There’s a more immediate question that I was hoping this forum of political experts could help me with? Why in the last year have a quite unusual collection of senior US political figures gone on the record to make quite extraordinary claims about UFOs? And started a very major congressional study into the topic, that has now squarely caught the attention of the US mainstream media?

    The statements include there being A LOT of multi point evidence (including satellite visuals, radar, sonar, close range videos) of them being tangible intelligently controlled, high tech objects (rather than glitches or misidentified balloons). That they can break the sound barrier without causing sonic booms? Can pull G force in the many hundreds. Leave no visible infrared signature from a propulsion system? Can traverse easily between air and water. That they interfere quite regularly with US military assets. That the US does not have air superiority over its own landmass AND UFO’S HAVE EVEN REMOTELY DEACTIVATED US NUKES.

    Philip prefers to not engage his brain with this topic rather than look carefully at what is being said by whom. Fair enough. It’s a hard topic.

    As for the rest of you, if this is all made up, what possible reason is there for such a conspiracy between political adversaries? Because that conspiracy itself would be the story of our time too.

    So the theory is that aliens flew to Earth across uncountable billions of miles of space to... screw with us?

    Or, more precisely, to screw with just one country on Earth?

    Why?
This discussion has been closed.