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Not a good Daily Mail front page tomorrow for the PM – politicalbetting.com

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  • The Queen banks at NatWest?

    Coutts & Co, all the best people do.

    Honestly calling it Natwest or RBS gets you CIFAS'd by the employees of Coutts & Co.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    Charles said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.

    The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
    It’s true though.

    Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
    I suggest you go and research what the criminal act of money laundering is all about.
    A deliberately obfuscatoryay to avoid it looking as if Boris is taking money directly from donors.

    (But which he has now been forced to pay back).

    I wonder if he has paid tax on what was effectively a loan.
    Do you pay tax on your mortgage?

    If it was a subsidised benefit in kind, then it should be taxed,
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Charles said:

    moonshine said:

    The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.

    The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
    It’s true though.

    Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
    That’s not money laundering.
    Got a better description?
  • Cyclefree said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.

    The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
    It’s true though.

    Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
    I suggest you go and research what the criminal act of money laundering is all about.
    A deliberately obfuscatory way to avoid it looking as if Boris is taking money directly from donors.

    (But which he has now been forced to pay back).

    I wonder if he has paid tax on what was effectively a loan.
    Oh good, you have dropped the libellous accusation of the serious criminal offence of money laundering.
    No I haven’t. It’s effectively a form of money laundering, albeit a legal one. The intent was to obscure the source of funds.
    Deary me.

    “Effectively a form of rape but a legal one”.
    “Effectively a form of murder but a legal one”.
    Etc...
    Both rape (in a conjugal context) and murder (the act of killing someone, maybe in wartime) have been legal in the past and the latter may still be.

    Come down from your fake moral high ground.
    Nonetheless you are wrong in describing this as money laundering. Only if the money for the refurbishment came from the proceeds of crime could its use be described as money laundering.

    There may well be other concerns: eg payment in expectation of reward / failure to comply with electoral rules on donations etc. But these do not per se make what has happened money-laundering.
    It's funny, I have the 2002 POCA in front of me.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/29/contents
  • Charles said:

    moonshine said:

    The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.

    The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
    It’s true though.

    Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
    That’s not money laundering.
    Got a better description?
    The definition of money laundering is broad. Money laundering is a process whereby criminals:

    retain, disguise and conceal the proceeds of their crimes;
    raise, consolidate or retain funds for use in financing terrorism.
    In UK law money laundering is defined in the Proceeds of Crimes Act 2002 (POCA) and includes all forms of handling or possessing criminal property, including possessing the proceeds of one's own crime, and facilitating any handling or possession of criminal property.

    Criminal property (defined in POCA) constitutes or represents a person's benefit from criminal conduct where the alleged offender knows or suspects that the property in question represents such a benefit. Criminal property may take any form, including money or money's worth, securities, tangible property and intangible property.

    Money laundering can be carried out in any part of the world and can range from a single act involving one person to complex set ups involving various individuals. There are no materiality or de-minis exceptions in relation to money laundering

    https://www.ifa.org.uk/technical-resources/aml#:~:text=In UK law money laundering,or possession of criminal property.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215

    There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".

    It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.

    He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.

    Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.

    The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.

    Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.

    True, though with an important caveat.

    Johnson is probably the only one who can hold this version of the Conservative Party together.

    We've had discussions about Labour's problem of holding their trendy young voters and regaining their Red Wall voters. But the idea that you can hold the stereotypical voters in Surrey and Sunderland together is just as ambitious.

    Johnson can do it, of course. He's used to keeping wife and mistress happy... At least for a while. But no alternative successor will be able to do it half as well. Even Johnson might struggle a bit, once normal politics and reality restart, and you can't solve the cake and eat it problem by the Bank of England issuing cakes on the bond market.

    And that's where the opportunity really lies.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment:
    * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out.
    * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months.
    * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes.
    * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees.
    * Rising house prices.

    On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.

    Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.

    It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.

    The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.

    In this country, yes.

    In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.

    Otherwise we'd see Trump in his second term now.

    Trump faced an election last November having presided over a disastrous covid response, before the vaccines started to roll-out. If you look at the polling in the UK between November and January it looks very different to the way it does now.

    Yes, America had a disastrous Covid response. The UK didn't, the UK weren't advising bleach or any of that other claptrap.

    Yes there was an artificial slump but even then (narrowly) based on the LOESS chart for opinion polls on Wikipedia at no stage was there crossover between the red and blue lines. Even at the trough before the Government's work on vaccines paid the two parties essentially came to parity.
    Britain has had the highest death rate and worst economic outturn of its key peer economies.

    Our death rate is TWICE that or Ireland, who are just next door and almost culturally identical to.
    While population density and ethnic mix can explain some difference, the rest is basically government policy.
    Population density etc explains all of the difference.

    And economic data is because of how we measure things differently, measuring based on output for public expenditure instead of inputs is a key variant. Plus thanks to the UK having the best vaccine rollout of its peers, we're due for the best economic recovery too.

    The facts are not on your side. By 2024 the UK will likely have a better Covid outcome and better economic outcome, because the pandemic has been well managed here. Which is why the Opposition were incapable of voting against at any stage, because they had nothing better to say.
    Population density does not explain all.

    Or we would be on a par with the Netherlands, whereas in reality we have a much higher death rate.

    On economics you seem to be claiming that our figures cannot be trusted...
    On deaths per million attributed to Covid, where we have been far more vigorous than most, we are currently 13th behind, Italy, Belgium, Slovenia and Slovakia amongst others. We will be overtaken by Brazil shortly.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,581

    There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".

    It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.

    He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.

    Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.

    The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.

    Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.

    That it took so many paragraphs for you to explain it all shows why you are wrong!!

    I've set out my argument. If you want a shorter version - lying about saying it will sink him, not saying it. I know that you are stuck in a "this is hopeless" for Labour position and on that you are correct. It won't cut through to the polls. But I think it will cut through to cut down Boris.

    There are an awful lot of grieving people out there. Liar let their granny die for headlines. Doesn't get worse than that.

    What brings Johnson down is Tory MPs. They will only act if they feel their constituents are demanding it. Their constituents aren't. Johnson is very lucky this story has broken at a time when most voters are feeling positive. But he is a liar and a grifter, interested only in himself. Given that, further stories of a similar nature are going to break on a continuous basis. At some point one will coincide with people feeling less good about themselves and the economy. That's when Johnson will genuinely be in danger.

    Tory MPs will only bring Johnson down if they feel he is a loser if shown in polls, local elections and from their constituents.

    That is not going to happen any time soon.
    We have the focus on Covid for the next few months, then the euphoria of freedom - spend, spend , spend.
    Johnson will ride high in the polls.
    Then the hangover and who pays the bill coming to a head in 2023.
    I give Johnson at least two years.
    If the Tories are behind in the polls in mid 2023, I can see Johnson being ditched for someone else who might do better in the coming GE.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited April 2021

    I wonder how many on the left will feign that they like, appreciate and trust the Daily Heil now it is saying something that suits their agenda?

    It will be good for democracy if the Tories have a great election next week and it shows that the days of newspaper editors wielding tremendous power and influence are well and truly behind us.

    One of the (many) reasons why Corbyn doing unexpectedly well at the 2017 general election was such a great thing. It showed exactly this. That Labour did NOT need to creep around in fear of the Murdochs and Dacres of this world.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Charles said:

    The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.

    No, it really wasn’t. Money laundering has 3 distinct elements, the only one of which I can remember is “layering”.

    And layering your wallpaper is a definite no no.
    Might I suggest some remedial training? I have it ready to be rolled out ........ with humour, wit and insight. And how often can you say that about Compliance training?

    😉
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    26m
    “Almost none of this stuff matters – until the point at which it does.” Eternal verity from
    @philipjcowley
    via
    @estwebber
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    I thought I came to PB to escape law revision. 🤦‍♂️
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,581
    edited April 2021
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
    Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
    When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
    It was deliberate and it was done twice.

    First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
    Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.

    Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.

    I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
    So, why do you think this government is carrying out a campaign of mass murder of its own citizens? What’s the advantage to them?
    Happy Christmas
    EDIT ... for most people who will be grateful to Johnson...
    but very unhappy for those who lose loved ones.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited April 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.

    The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
    It’s true though.

    Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
    I suggest you go and research what the criminal act of money laundering is all about.
    A deliberately obfuscatory way to avoid it looking as if Boris is taking money directly from donors.

    (But which he has now been forced to pay back).

    I wonder if he has paid tax on what was effectively a loan.
    Oh good, you have dropped the libellous accusation of the serious criminal offence of money laundering.
    No I haven’t. It’s effectively a form of money laundering, albeit a legal one. The intent was to obscure the source of funds.
    Deary me.

    “Effectively a form of rape but a legal one”.
    “Effectively a form of murder but a legal one”.
    Etc...
    Both rape (in a conjugal context) and murder (the act of killing someone, maybe in wartime) have been legal in the past and the latter may still be.

    Come down from your fake moral high ground.
    Nonetheless you are wrong in describing this as money laundering. Only if the money for the refurbishment came from the proceeds of crime could its use be described as money laundering.

    There may well be other concerns: eg payment in expectation of reward / failure to comply with electoral rules on donations etc. But these do not per se make what has happened money-laundering.
    It's actually kind of the opposite to money laundering. They've taken clean money and turned it into dirty money. Dirty money being a good description of cash donated under the counter to Boris Johnson to buy influence.
  • I thought I came to PB to escape law revision. 🤦‍♂️

    Tomorrow's PB law seminar is on the tort of negligence.

    Thursday is all about estoppels.

    Friday is the fun you can have with the words enjoined and sanction(ed).
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464

    There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".

    It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.

    He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.

    Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.

    The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.

    Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.

    True, though with an important caveat.

    Johnson is probably the only one who can hold this version of the Conservative Party together.

    We've had discussions about Labour's problem of holding their trendy young voters and regaining their Red Wall voters. But the idea that you can hold the stereotypical voters in Surrey and Sunderland together is just as ambitious.

    Johnson can do it, of course. He's used to keeping wife and mistress happy... At least for a while. But no alternative successor will be able to do it half as well. Even Johnson might struggle a bit, once normal politics and reality restart, and you can't solve the cake and eat it problem by the Bank of England issuing cakes on the bond market.

    And that's where the opportunity really lies.
    He's used to keeping wife and mistress happy....brilliant - it sums up for me the enigma that is B Johnson's electoral appeal.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    "If anyone wants to put a small bet on the next “black swan” to hit the markets, an implosion of French debt should be right at the top of the list"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/04/26/never-mind-debts-greece-italy-france-heading-crisis/
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    "If anyone wants to put a small bet on the next “black swan” to hit the markets, an implosion of French debt should be right at the top of the list"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/04/26/never-mind-debts-greece-italy-france-heading-crisis/

    Telegraph. Ignore.
  • moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.

    The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
    It’s true though.

    Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
    I suggest you go and research what the criminal act of money laundering is all about.
    A deliberately obfuscatory way to avoid it looking as if Boris is taking money directly from donors.

    (But which he has now been forced to pay back).

    I wonder if he has paid tax on what was effectively a loan.
    Oh good, you have dropped the libellous accusation of the serious criminal offence of money laundering.
    Libel? Yeah, like Boris would want this discussed in an open court.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".

    It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.

    He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.

    Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.

    The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.

    Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.

    True, though with an important caveat.

    Johnson is probably the only one who can hold this version of the Conservative Party together.

    We've had discussions about Labour's problem of holding their trendy young voters and regaining their Red Wall voters. But the idea that you can hold the stereotypical voters in Surrey and Sunderland together is just as ambitious.

    Johnson can do it, of course. He's used to keeping wife and mistress happy... At least for a while. But no alternative successor will be able to do it half as well. Even Johnson might struggle a bit, once normal politics and reality restart, and you can't solve the cake and eat it problem by the Bank of England issuing cakes on the bond market.

    And that's where the opportunity really lies.
    He's used to keeping wife and mistress happy....brilliant - it sums up for me the enigma that is B Johnson's electoral appeal.
    Well not really, because he's left a trail of unhappy ex-wives and discarded mistresses behind him.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I have never heard Carrie speak, but in my head she sounds like Violet Beauregard.

    “Oh, but daddy, I want the Ottoman wall linings now!.”
  • I have never heard Carrie speak, but in my head she sounds like Violet Beauregard.

    “Oh, but daddy, I want the Ottoman wall linings now!.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Bc_SPM0qM
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway I was called for my second dose yesterday at 5 hours notice. As I was in London sorting out some urgent family issues (children!) I had to hotfoot it back to Barrow getting there just in time. Hooray! All very efficient. I was told that they had begged the vaccination centre in Grange for supplies.

    It is a huge relief and big thanks go to all those involved.

    I hope the momentum can be kept up for the younger age groups.

    I must say I cannot be arsed with all the hoo ha about wallpaper etc.

    The mystery to me is why it is taking so long to do a leak inquiry. I have done lots of these in my time and they really do not - and should not - take months. It is usually possible (if you know how to do them properly, a big "if" I grant you) to get an answer within days. Ditto re who paid for the wallpaper: this does not take months or even weeks to work out.

    As for the "piling bodies high" comment, without context it is hard to judge - a comment made in exasperation is very different to one describing a deliberately chosen policy.

    I yield to no-one in my dislike of this venal government and its amoral leader. But I will give it - and the NHS - credit for (a) choosing a good leader of the Vaccination Task Force, Kate Bingham (my initial criticisms of her appointment were misplaced); (b) spending the money needed to secure supplies; and (c) allowing the NHS to get on with its job, which it has done very well indeed.

    Sometimes a politician has only to get one big call right or wrong to determine their reputation. Think Blair and Iraq. Too early to say whether the PM will be remembered for the vaccine programme or all his many failings. Maybe it will be both a la Lloyd George, who was an amoral priapic crook as well as a transformative PM.

    Great news you got your second dose, I know it was stressing you out. Happy for you! :smile: 👍

    Also kudos to you for your remarks, especially regarding your former criticisms of Kate Bingham's appointment. It is always refreshing to see people put their hands up on calls like this, well done.
    Pleased to hear you have had 2nd jab @Cyclefree

    I have to say I think you are right about the 'bodies' comment. Needs to be seen in context. Was it raging frustration? Desperately poor taste humour?

    I agree. How many of us say 'I'll kill him if he has done that' which we clearly don't mean and have said in frustration or jokingly.

    Trouble is when you have so many issues hanging over you it might be an innocent one that gets you.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    edited April 2021
    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
    I think you're right. The electorate are fickle and getting the attention of an audience isn't easy. Johnson's the original plate spinner. He's been ducking and diving forever. Sleazy character questions will only cut through when they affect things that get people riled.

    We've seen it once with Dom at Barnard Castle. It showed up Johnson's character flaws in technicolour. Weak character who needed a Svengali. One rule for the Bullingdon Boy and another for the rest.....

    This time it's another weakness. His Marie Antoinette problem. Spending loads of other people's dosh to 'Luly Lytle' their apartment. Nurses working till they drop 140,000 deaths and Boris's paramour flapping about the decor.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited April 2021
    UBS needs a decent compliance/investigations director in place to sort this stuff out.

    UBS reveals a $774m loss on Archegos trades - plus another $87m hit coming next quarter. But previously they said it was "not material"

    https://twitter.com/OwenWalker0/status/1386947169731633154

    https://www.ft.com/content/281ec98b-1366-415e-88ae-8154d4fe07e5
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
    Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
    When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
    It was deliberate and it was done twice.

    First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
    Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.

    Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.

    I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
    So, why do you think this government is carrying out a campaign of mass murder of its own citizens? What’s the advantage to them?
    I do not think that anybody believes that Johnson deliberately set out to kill thousands of our fellow citizens. Just that he wanted a good headline for himself, and the deaths of so many people were of no importance to him. So he didn't stop to think of the implications of what he was doing. It was just a matter of "Boris just being Boris" - which is quite enough excuse for most of our PB Conservatives.

    The encouraging thing is that several Conservatives here are now ex-Conservatives. And this seems to hold true in the big world outside too. I have met quite a lot of ex-Conservatives in recent weeks (relatively speaking of course, given restrictions) and wonder if other PB posters have found the same.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,787
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, .... have you played a videogame since the original Sonic the Hedgehog?

    From quicksaves and save scumming to checkpoint reloading, I think you might be a little out of date.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Barnesian said:

    There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".

    It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.

    He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.

    Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.

    The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.

    Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.

    That it took so many paragraphs for you to explain it all shows why you are wrong!!

    I've set out my argument. If you want a shorter version - lying about saying it will sink him, not saying it. I know that you are stuck in a "this is hopeless" for Labour position and on that you are correct. It won't cut through to the polls. But I think it will cut through to cut down Boris.

    There are an awful lot of grieving people out there. Liar let their granny die for headlines. Doesn't get worse than that.

    What brings Johnson down is Tory MPs. They will only act if they feel their constituents are demanding it. Their constituents aren't. Johnson is very lucky this story has broken at a time when most voters are feeling positive. But he is a liar and a grifter, interested only in himself. Given that, further stories of a similar nature are going to break on a continuous basis. At some point one will coincide with people feeling less good about themselves and the economy. That's when Johnson will genuinely be in danger.

    Tory MPs will only bring Johnson down if they feel he is a loser if shown in polls, local elections and from their constituents.

    That is not going to happen any time soon.
    We have the focus on Covid for the next few months, then the euphoria of freedom - spend, spend , spend.
    Johnson will ride high in the polls.
    Then the hangover and who pays the bill coming to a head in 2023.
    I give Johnson at least two years.
    If the Tories are behind in the polls in mid 2023, I can see Johnson being ditched for someone else who might do better in the coming GE.
    Pretty much my take too. I have a few betting positions structured around Johnson leading the Tories into the next election and I still think he will. If not, like you, I think 2023 is when he goes. Betting aside, I'd love to be proved wrong and see him brought down early by this (or similar) but right now as we speak I'm not seeing it.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215
    Dura_Ace said:

    There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".

    It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.

    He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.

    Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.

    The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.

    Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.

    True, though with an important caveat.

    Johnson is probably the only one who can hold this version of the Conservative Party together.

    We've had discussions about Labour's problem of holding their trendy young voters and regaining their Red Wall voters. But the idea that you can hold the stereotypical voters in Surrey and Sunderland together is just as ambitious.

    Johnson can do it, of course. He's used to keeping wife and mistress happy... At least for a while. But no alternative successor will be able to do it half as well. Even Johnson might struggle a bit, once normal politics and reality restart, and you can't solve the cake and eat it problem by the Bank of England issuing cakes on the bond market.

    And that's where the opportunity really lies.
    He's used to keeping wife and mistress happy....brilliant - it sums up for me the enigma that is B Johnson's electoral appeal.
    Well not really, because he's left a trail of unhappy ex-wives and discarded mistresses behind him.
    That's why I said "for a while". It doesn't work long-term, but Boris doesn't do long-term.

    Now, where's that Sun front page from September 1992?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited April 2021

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    "@JackPosobiec
    BREAKING: California Secretary of State announces the signature threshold for recalling Gavin Newsom has been met. Election to be held later this year."

    I think Mr Newson has been fortunate: CV19 cases are among the lowest in the US, life is returning to normal in CA, vaccine uptake is very high relative to (say) Mississippi, and I think he'll walk the recall election.

    If this had happened last November, he'd have been in real trouble.
    I'm not sure you can write off Caitlyn Jenner.
    No, I'm pretty sure you can write off Caitlin Jenner.
    California voters will have TWO voting opportunities on their recall ballot:

    1) should Gov. Gavin Newsom be removed from office?

    2) if so, who should replace him?

    Note that #2 is operative ONLY if #1 receives a majority of votes cast on that question. In that case, top vote-getter wins.

    So for Caitlyn Jenner to be elected Governor, she needs to NOT ONLY get the most votes on #2, she first needs majority of voters to vote to recall. Without that, does NOT matter how many votes she (or anyone else) gets.
    I seem to recall a story about s small town mayor was recalled, but because the vote was split on who to replace them they were instantly returned, as the two votes were simultaneous. Amusing.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    It is probably in the Commission's interests that they lose this case.

    The only way a Belgian court could find for them would be to ignore the terms of the agreement, while talking loudly about good faith while waiving their hands

    I am not the only lawyer in Europe who can read an agreement.

    If the Commission "won" like that, the reputation of the Belgian courts would suffer, but so would the willingness of counterparties to contract with the Commission. They'll have to pay a premium from hereon.

    I think the Commission very ill advised.

    If they lose they look like fools.

    If they "win" they suffer reputational damage.

    Would have been better to let it fade away.


    Thread:

    https://twitter.com/SpinningHugo/status/1386948044382429184?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Sean_F said:

    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
    Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
    When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
    It was deliberate and it was done twice.

    First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
    Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.

    Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.

    I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
    The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.

    But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.

    Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
    Putting things in context

    The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile

    The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day

    The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president

    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/la-tribune-d-anciens-militaires-contre-le-delitement-de-la-france-enflamme-le-debat-politique-20210426

    I think Ill stick with the wallpaper
    The UK is "fretting" about the probity of its PM. This is allowed, I think, despite this being a big old complex world with lots of bad stuff going on.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited April 2021

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, .... have you played a videogame since the original Sonic the Hedgehog?

    From quicksaves and save scumming to checkpoint reloading, I think you might be a little out of date.

    I don't think I've played a proper videogame since the original Playstation.

    I've had a Playstation 4 since 2016 and a Playstation 5 since Christmas but all I do is watch my father and kids play on them. Mostly FIFA and other sports games.

    Oooh, I had a WII back in the mid 2000s, I was an expert at Wii ten pin bowling.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited April 2021
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    You were not so worried when Blair was lying through his back teeth, nor the odious Brown. Your instinct is to go all Guardian on anything you post (especially if its a Tory) and that rag has had and has some pretty nasty people working for it.
    Yes, but the current Prime Minister has been sacked for lying a couple of times, and has an extensive past history of lies in his personal life. I don't think even his supporters here defend him as a shining sword of truth, just as an election winner.

    That Johnson is a veteran election winner is really his only attribute. There is no substance behind him, no ideology, no long term plan, no desire to make hard choices in the long term interest of the country, just spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

    When he ceases to look like an election winner, his fall will be swift and total, because there is no hinterland of loyalty or ideology. The Tory party will discard him as casually and totally as Johnson does his mistresses once they have outlived their usefulness.
    That may well be so, but for now , its all tomorrow's fish and chip paper..
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    New Scottish Parliament poll, Panelbase 21 - 26 Apr (changes vs 9 - 12 Apr):

    List:
    SNP ~ 36% (nc)
    Con ~ 21% (-1)
    Lab ~ 18% (+1)
    Grn ~ 10% (+1)
    LD ~ 6% (nc)
    Alba ~ 6% (nc)
    AFU ~ 2% (nc)

    Constituency:
    SNP ~ 45% (-2)
    Lab ~ 22% (+2)
    Con ~ 20% (-3)
    LD ~ 8% (+2)
    Grn ~ 4% (nc)


    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386951980392796162?s=20
  • New Scottish Parliament poll, Panelbase 21 - 26 Apr (changes vs 9 - 12 Apr):

    List:
    SNP ~ 36% (nc)
    Con ~ 21% (-1)
    Lab ~ 18% (+1)
    Grn ~ 10% (+1)
    LD ~ 6% (nc)
    Alba ~ 6% (nc)
    AFU ~ 2% (nc)

    Constituency:
    SNP ~ 45% (-2)
    Lab ~ 22% (+2)
    Con ~ 20% (-3)
    LD ~ 8% (+2)
    Grn ~ 4% (nc)


    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386951980392796162?s=20

    Another pollster with SLAB in second place.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    IanB2 said:

    HEADLINES 27 April:

    Metro: Slurry of sleaze
    Mail: Boris on the ropes
    Express: Boris denies ‘let bodies pile high’ outburst
    Times: Johnson ‘said he would let COVID rip” in lockdown row
    Star: [Boris]- My pants are NOT on fire..
    Telegraph: PM fights to move on from leaks row
    Mirror: Now three people say Johnson raged ‘let bodies pile high’
    Guardian: Pressure on Johnson after claim of slur on COVID dead
    i: Boris tainted by sleaze, say voters

    It's really going to piss you off when he gets away with this, isn't it? :wink:

    If he does it should piss off anybody who cares about how the country is governed. Clearly that doesn't include you though.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited April 2021
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
    Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
    When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
    It was deliberate and it was done twice.

    First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
    Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.

    Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.

    I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
    So, why do you think this government is carrying out a campaign of mass murder of its own citizens? What’s the advantage to them?
    It's a good question. Cui Bono. But of the big 3 - motive, means, opportunity - motive is perhaps the least important when deciding whether to convict. If you have the other 2, plus some decent evidence of the deed being done by the accused, you can probably send them down with an easy conscience.
  • Taz said:

    Charles said:

    moonshine said:

    Goodness me we’ve approached tiresome silly season in the British media haven’t we.

    SCANDAL: Political party pays for redecoration of official residence so it doesn’t fall on the taxpayer!!

    DISGRACE: Unnamed sources disclose that man who nearly dies of covid still retains balance when assessing pros and cons of lockdown!!

    If this is the best that long standing enemies can come up with after a year long cease fire, it only serves to show the PM has successfully navigated the choppy waters of both Brexit and the catastrophe of Covid. These are bulllets that would bounce off the Marshmellow Man, much less the Terminator.

    If Gove is behind the briefing (Mail links suggest he might be), he will be out of government by Christmas is my guess.

    The story is not who paid, but Johnson not declaring it. In previous governments this has been a resignation matter. Ask Peter Mandelson. But it is undoubtedly true that standards have so slipped under Johnson that at a time when economic optimism is soaring on the back of a highly successful vaccine roll-out this episode will have no effect on anything. Had the story broken at the start of the year, when the government and the PM were far less popular, it would probably have been a very different matter.

    What did Peter Mandelson resign for?

    I remember lying on a mortgage application and something to do with corruptly accelerating a passport application fir a billionaire. Was there something else as well?
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1137974.stm
    That was his second resignation. The first resignation was the one relevant to this one - he failed to declare a loan in the register of member's interests. It was a breach of the ministerial code, so he resigned.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    UBS needs a decent compliance/investigations director in place to sort this stuff out.

    UBS reveals a $774m loss on Archegos trades - plus another $87m hit coming next quarter. But previously they said it was "not material"

    https://twitter.com/OwenWalker0/status/1386947169731633154

    https://www.ft.com/content/281ec98b-1366-415e-88ae-8154d4fe07e5

    Especially since UBS gave the evidence which originally got Mr Hwang of Archegos convicted of insider dealing by the SEC in 2012.

    See here - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/same-old-same-old/ and here - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/for-want-of-a-nail/.

    What they need is me. As do many other institutions.

    Are they bloody listening? No. More fools them.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited April 2021

    There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".

    It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.

    He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.

    Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.

    The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.

    Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.

    @Philip_Thompson, for example, after a quiet day yesterday getting his story together for today, has come back all guns blazing. I paraphrase, but "Boris saved the lives of the nation with his clarion call on vaccinations", a fair point, and indeed all the other nonsense for Johnson is just froth.

    On the news last night LauraK. took us into Mrs May's dour beige Downing Street flat, proof if it were needed that a tasteful makeover was desperately required, irrespective of who paid. But back to the saved lives element of the story. Isn't Johnson's popularity all about his Churchillian patriotism, leading the nation from the front to defeat the pandemic? Indeed it is, and should his callous, angry quip be true, it might cause him a problem. And if it does, will Mr and Mrs Sunak, just have to live with Carrie's god-awful wallpaper?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Cyclefree said:

    UBS needs a decent compliance/investigations director in place to sort this stuff out.

    UBS reveals a $774m loss on Archegos trades - plus another $87m hit coming next quarter. But previously they said it was "not material"

    https://twitter.com/OwenWalker0/status/1386947169731633154

    https://www.ft.com/content/281ec98b-1366-415e-88ae-8154d4fe07e5

    Especially since UBS gave the evidence which originally got Mr Hwang of Archegos convicted of insider dealing by the SEC in 2012.

    See here - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/same-old-same-old/ and here - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/for-want-of-a-nail/.

    What they need is me. As do many other institutions.

    Are they bloody listening? No. More fools them.
    Send Bozza a text and he'll get you appointed nee bother!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway I was called for my second dose yesterday at 5 hours notice. As I was in London sorting out some urgent family issues (children!) I had to hotfoot it back to Barrow getting there just in time. Hooray! All very efficient. I was told that they had begged the vaccination centre in Grange for supplies.

    It is a huge relief and big thanks go to all those involved.

    I hope the momentum can be kept up for the younger age groups.

    I must say I cannot be arsed with all the hoo ha about wallpaper etc.

    The mystery to me is why it is taking so long to do a leak inquiry. I have done lots of these in my time and they really do not - and should not - take months. It is usually possible (if you know how to do them properly, a big "if" I grant you) to get an answer within days. Ditto re who paid for the wallpaper: this does not take months or even weeks to work out.

    As for the "piling bodies high" comment, without context it is hard to judge - a comment made in exasperation is very different to one describing a deliberately chosen policy.

    I yield to no-one in my dislike of this venal government and its amoral leader. But I will give it - and the NHS - credit for (a) choosing a good leader of the Vaccination Task Force, Kate Bingham (my initial criticisms of her appointment were misplaced); (b) spending the money needed to secure supplies; and (c) allowing the NHS to get on with its job, which it has done very well indeed.

    Sometimes a politician has only to get one big call right or wrong to determine their reputation. Think Blair and Iraq. Too early to say whether the PM will be remembered for the vaccine programme or all his many failings. Maybe it will be both a la Lloyd George, who was an amoral priapic crook as well as a transformative PM.

    You're suggesting he'll sink the party for the rest of the century ?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    France is threatening to block regulations that would allow the U.K. to continue operating under financial regulations in Europe if the country doesn’t respect its Brexit commitments on fishing.

    “The U.K. must deliver licenses, authorization to access their waters for fishing, that’s the deal,” French Junior Minister for European Affairs Clement Beaune told BFM Business TV Tuesday.


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-27/france-warns-u-k-of-retaliation-in-post-brexit-banking-rules
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    New Scottish Parliament poll, Panelbase 21 - 26 Apr (changes vs 9 - 12 Apr):

    List:
    SNP ~ 36% (nc)
    Con ~ 21% (-1)
    Lab ~ 18% (+1)
    Grn ~ 10% (+1)
    LD ~ 6% (nc)
    Alba ~ 6% (nc)
    AFU ~ 2% (nc)

    Constituency:
    SNP ~ 45% (-2)
    Lab ~ 22% (+2)
    Con ~ 20% (-3)
    LD ~ 8% (+2)
    Grn ~ 4% (nc)


    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386951980392796162?s=20

    Another pollster with SLAB in second place.
    On social media (for all that's worth) Sarwar does appear to be having more impact than Ross.....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    As people have said it depends on the context - I don't want to add to the great posts about this today.

    I would say, however, that as we know Boris' instinct is to make people happy and anti-restrictions of freedom. I can't quite remember when all the lockdowns started and finished (first Mar 23 - Jun ??; was there a second?; third Jan - Jun).

    But I think it absolutely reasonable for a PM to question whether it is right and correct to keep the whole nation locked down for what, 10 out of 15 months.

    Of course, we want to know - but never will - the context, tone, and intent of his comment. If he made it.

    So for me the thought of questioning lockdown is a good one; the flippancy if that is what it was, about tens of thousands of deaths is unforgiveable (and cf my example yesterday if he'd been so blase - in private or anywhere else - about, say, the death of a British soldier on ops).
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.

    The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
    It’s true though.

    Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
    I suggest you go and research what the criminal act of money laundering is all about.
    A deliberately obfuscatory way to avoid it looking as if Boris is taking money directly from donors.

    (But which he has now been forced to pay back).

    I wonder if he has paid tax on what was effectively a loan.
    Oh good, you have dropped the libellous accusation of the serious criminal offence of money laundering.
    Libel? Yeah, like Boris would want this discussed in an open court.
    I see it's ok to libel or smear someone if its unlikely they will sue.. pretty nasty really.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,787
    Mr. Eagles, play The Witcher 3. It's fantastic.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    I think the expenses scandal some years back genuinely shocked many people but since then there has been a feeling "all MPs are on the fiddle" so I don't think this will have a great impact. With Boris it is the drip, drip, drip effect of all his untruths and favours to and from friends. The question is when, if ever, the drips will be enough to burst the dam and sweep him from office. I don't see it as being in the near future.
  • New Scottish Parliament poll, Panelbase 21 - 26 Apr (changes vs 9 - 12 Apr):

    List:
    SNP ~ 36% (nc)
    Con ~ 21% (-1)
    Lab ~ 18% (+1)
    Grn ~ 10% (+1)
    LD ~ 6% (nc)
    Alba ~ 6% (nc)
    AFU ~ 2% (nc)

    Constituency:
    SNP ~ 45% (-2)
    Lab ~ 22% (+2)
    Con ~ 20% (-3)
    LD ~ 8% (+2)
    Grn ~ 4% (nc)


    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386951980392796162?s=20

    Another pollster with SLAB in second place.
    On social media (for all that's worth) Sarwar does appear to be having more impact than Ross.....
    Some wag pointed out to me that everytime DRoss is on the telly it reminds the electorate that Ruth Davidson is no longer in charge and that's a very bad thing for the SCons.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148

    One for @Casino_Royale

    Epicurious
    @epicurious
    Today we announced that Epicurious is cutting out beef. It won’t appear in new Epi recipes, articles, newsletters, or on social. This isn’t a vendetta against cows or people who eat them. It’s a shift about sustainability; not anti-beef but pro-planet.

    That's more pro-PR than pro-Planet.

    Fools. Differences in beef production systems can give differences in emission levels of 5x. Just like everything else.

    Over time it can be fixed or optimised.


  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
    Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
    When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
    It was deliberate and it was done twice.

    First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
    Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.

    Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.

    I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
    The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.

    But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.

    Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
    Putting things in context

    The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile

    The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day

    The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president

    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/la-tribune-d-anciens-militaires-contre-le-delitement-de-la-france-enflamme-le-debat-politique-20210426

    I think Ill stick with the wallpaper
    The UK is "fretting" about the probity of its PM. This is allowed, I think, despite this being a big old complex world with lots of bad stuff going on.
    The probity is about the substantial improvement of a tax payer owned property at absolutely zero cost to the taxpayer. Only in the UK!

  • There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".

    It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.

    He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.

    Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.

    The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.

    Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.

    @Philip_Thompson, for example, after a quiet day yesterday getting his story together for today, has come back all guns blazing. I paraphrase, but "Boris saved the lives of the nation with his clarion call on vaccinations", a fair point, and indeed all the other nonsense for Johnson is just froth.

    On the news last night LauraK. took us into Mrs May's dour beige Downing Street flat, proof if it were needed that a tasteful makeover was desperately required, irrespective of who paid. But back to the saved lives element of the story. Isn't Johnson's popularity all about his Churchillian patriotism, leading the nation from the front to defeat the pandemic? Indeed it is, and should his callous, angry quip be true, it might cause him a problem. And if it does, will Mr and Mrs Sunak, just have to live with Carrie's god-awful wallpaper?
    Or - radical idea - they can buy some new wallpaper or cans of paint like the rest of the world do.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    It's such a pity that John Lewis isn't capitalising on the brouhaha with "Never knowingly undissed by Carrie".
  • New Scottish Parliament poll, Panelbase 21 - 26 Apr (changes vs 9 - 12 Apr):

    List:
    SNP ~ 36% (nc)
    Con ~ 21% (-1)
    Lab ~ 18% (+1)
    Grn ~ 10% (+1)
    LD ~ 6% (nc)
    Alba ~ 6% (nc)
    AFU ~ 2% (nc)

    Constituency:
    SNP ~ 45% (-2)
    Lab ~ 22% (+2)
    Con ~ 20% (-3)
    LD ~ 8% (+2)
    Grn ~ 4% (nc)


    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386951980392796162?s=20

    Another pollster with SLAB in second place.
    On social media (for all that's worth) Sarwar does appear to be having more impact than Ross.....
    Ross has had impact! Oh, you meant *positive* impact...
  • Mr. Eagles, play The Witcher 3. It's fantastic.

    I wish I had the time to do so.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    Tessy Coffey stonewalling with mixed success on R4 this am.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1386951633771405314?s=21
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Comedy Nat Onal:

    CLAIM:

    "It's clear that an independent Scotland would start life with a large deficit. It would need to get that down, and that would mean difficult choices." - David Phillips, an associate director at the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), April 26, 2021.

    DOORSTEP ANSWER:

    No-one can say what Scotland’s debt or deficit might be until after the independence negotiations. If we refuse to take on responsibility for buying Trident and the like, our starting debt might be zero – like owning the house but having no mortgage.


    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19260416.independent-scotland-start-large-budget-deficit/

    I wonder what "zero debt" would do to the CTA, let alone trade.....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
    Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
    When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
    It was deliberate and it was done twice.

    First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
    Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.

    Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.

    I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
    The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.

    But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.

    Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
    Putting things in context

    The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile

    The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day

    The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president

    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/la-tribune-d-anciens-militaires-contre-le-delitement-de-la-france-enflamme-le-debat-politique-20210426

    I think Ill stick with the wallpaper
    The UK is "fretting" about the probity of its PM. This is allowed, I think, despite this being a big old complex world with lots of bad stuff going on.
    The probity is about the substantial improvement of a tax payer owned property at absolutely zero cost to the taxpayer. Only in the UK!

    "Only in the UK!"

    You should travel more....
  • moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.

    The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
    It’s true though.

    Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
    I suggest you go and research what the criminal act of money laundering is all about.
    A deliberately obfuscatory way to avoid it looking as if Boris is taking money directly from donors.

    (But which he has now been forced to pay back).

    I wonder if he has paid tax on what was effectively a loan.
    Oh good, you have dropped the libellous accusation of the serious criminal offence of money laundering.
    Libel? Yeah, like Boris would want this discussed in an open court.
    I see it's ok to libel or smear someone if its unlikely they will sue.. pretty nasty really.
    It isn't Libel. Its (a) an opinion, (b) there is a basis to the opinion, and (c) its an opinion that an honest person could have held.
  • Comedy Nat Onal:

    CLAIM:

    "It's clear that an independent Scotland would start life with a large deficit. It would need to get that down, and that would mean difficult choices." - David Phillips, an associate director at the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), April 26, 2021.

    DOORSTEP ANSWER:

    No-one can say what Scotland’s debt or deficit might be until after the independence negotiations. If we refuse to take on responsibility for buying Trident and the like, our starting debt might be zero – like owning the house but having no mortgage.


    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19260416.independent-scotland-start-large-budget-deficit/

    I wonder what "zero debt" would do to the CTA, let alone trade.....

    I've pointed out for ages that if Scotland walks away saying they have no debt from the UK then

    1) No one will be lending to an iScotland

    2) Pensions to people Scottish people residing in Scotland will no longer be the responsibility nor the liability of the the UK, it'll all be on an iScot.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955

    New Scottish Parliament poll, Panelbase 21 - 26 Apr (changes vs 9 - 12 Apr):

    List:
    SNP ~ 36% (nc)
    Con ~ 21% (-1)
    Lab ~ 18% (+1)
    Grn ~ 10% (+1)
    LD ~ 6% (nc)
    Alba ~ 6% (nc)
    AFU ~ 2% (nc)

    Constituency:
    SNP ~ 45% (-2)
    Lab ~ 22% (+2)
    Con ~ 20% (-3)
    LD ~ 8% (+2)
    Grn ~ 4% (nc)


    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386951980392796162?s=20

    Another pollster with SLAB in second place.
    On social media (for all that's worth) Sarwar does appear to be having more impact than Ross.....
    Ross has had impact! Oh, you meant *positive* impact...
    He made a nation’s sphincter clench, you can’t say that’s not impact.

    https://twitter.com/daveylittle/status/1386916155714154496?s=21
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    On topic, Geordie Greig is the Editor of the Mail. He was a staunch Remainer and also very much in the Cameron / Osborne camp so no real surprise he is piling in on Boris. If I wanted to be cynical, I would also point out that he is doing his mate Dave a big favour by (a) distracting people from DC's own behaviour and (b) showing people how DC's behaviour is not atypical.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited April 2021
    For the poster upthread who has not heard Carrie Symonds speaking.... here she is. She speaks with good diction, a big plus imho.
    https://www.facebook.com/itvnews/videos/2358548594388328/
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway I was called for my second dose yesterday at 5 hours notice. As I was in London sorting out some urgent family issues (children!) I had to hotfoot it back to Barrow getting there just in time. Hooray! All very efficient. I was told that they had begged the vaccination centre in Grange for supplies.

    It is a huge relief and big thanks go to all those involved.

    I hope the momentum can be kept up for the younger age groups.

    I must say I cannot be arsed with all the hoo ha about wallpaper etc.

    The mystery to me is why it is taking so long to do a leak inquiry. I have done lots of these in my time and they really do not - and should not - take months. It is usually possible (if you know how to do them properly, a big "if" I grant you) to get an answer within days. Ditto re who paid for the wallpaper: this does not take months or even weeks to work out.

    As for the "piling bodies high" comment, without context it is hard to judge - a comment made in exasperation is very different to one describing a deliberately chosen policy.

    I yield to no-one in my dislike of this venal government and its amoral leader. But I will give it - and the NHS - credit for (a) choosing a good leader of the Vaccination Task Force, Kate Bingham (my initial criticisms of her appointment were misplaced); (b) spending the money needed to secure supplies; and (c) allowing the NHS to get on with its job, which it has done very well indeed.

    Sometimes a politician has only to get one big call right or wrong to determine their reputation. Think Blair and Iraq. Too early to say whether the PM will be remembered for the vaccine programme or all his many failings. Maybe it will be both a la Lloyd George, who was an amoral priapic crook as well as a transformative PM.

    You're suggesting he'll sink the party for the rest of the century ?
    I doubt it.

    But.

    One of Johnson's first key acts was to clear a lot of his rivals out of the cabinet, then out of the party. If he fell under a bus today (which would have a certain narrative elegance), who would replace him? Gove is unelectable, Hunt is semi-detached from the party, Sunak needs to be back at school for tea and to do his prep, and the rest are nobodies.

    People have rightly pointed out that Johnson will fall when the party intuits that there is someone else who will do better. Johnson gets that as well- one of his genuine talents is grasp of human tribal dynamics. So he's strengthened his position, albeit at the cost of harming the party under his successor.

    But his successor is in the category of "bodies that aren't Boris", so who gives a stuff about them?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,405

    Dura_Ace said:



    The French Army up for a fight? I've seen it all now.

    Ossuaire de Douaumont


    I know, I've been there, as you may have noticed I mention Verdun a few posts ago.

    Like Colleville-sur-Mer it really does hit you just how many people died in the two world wars.
    The ones that stick with me most are the German war cemetries. Lots of dead soldiers piled up in as little ground as the invaded nations begrudgingly gave up. Langemarck in Belgium sticks out.

    By contrast the German cemetry in Cannock is more llike our own with lots of space and well tended. Most of the dead were POWs or pilots.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2021

    Comedy Nat Onal:

    CLAIM:

    "It's clear that an independent Scotland would start life with a large deficit. It would need to get that down, and that would mean difficult choices." - David Phillips, an associate director at the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), April 26, 2021.

    DOORSTEP ANSWER:

    No-one can say what Scotland’s debt or deficit might be until after the independence negotiations. If we refuse to take on responsibility for buying Trident and the like, our starting debt might be zero – like owning the house but having no mortgage.


    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19260416.independent-scotland-start-large-budget-deficit/

    I wonder what "zero debt" would do to the CTA, let alone trade.....

    2) Pensions to people Scottish people residing in Scotland will no longer be the responsibility nor the liability of the the UK, it'll all be on an iScot.
    The state pension in iScotland will be the responsibility of iScotland in any case - despite what Malc fondly imagines.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Charles said:

    moonshine said:

    The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.

    The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
    It’s true though.

    Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
    That’s not money laundering.
    Got a better description?
    It's more a case of sweeping under the carpet than actual cleansing...
  • For the poster upthread who has not heard Carrie Symonds speaking.... here she is. She speaks with good diction, a big plus imho.
    https://www.facebook.com/itvnews/videos/2358548594388328/

    "Daddy. I want another pony"
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,589
    Curious that Sturgeon and Drakeford were equally loathe to have lockdowns as Boris.

    Perhaps they wanted to 'pile the bodies high' as well ?

    Or perhaps there are costs with such decisions.
  • There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".

    It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.

    He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.

    Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.

    The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.

    Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.

    @Philip_Thompson, for example, after a quiet day yesterday getting his story together for today, has come back all guns blazing. I paraphrase, but "Boris saved the lives of the nation with his clarion call on vaccinations", a fair point, and indeed all the other nonsense for Johnson is just froth.

    On the news last night LauraK. took us into Mrs May's dour beige Downing Street flat, proof if it were needed that a tasteful makeover was desperately required, irrespective of who paid. But back to the saved lives element of the story. Isn't Johnson's popularity all about his Churchillian patriotism, leading the nation from the front to defeat the pandemic? Indeed it is, and should his callous, angry quip be true, it might cause him a problem. And if it does, will Mr and Mrs Sunak, just have to live with Carrie's god-awful wallpaper?
    Excellent post

    I have for some time maintained that both Douglas Ross and Andrew RT Davies are poor conservative leaders and am expecting in Scotland that the star of Holyrood 21 may well be Anas Sarwar and Labour.

    It may surprise some that I would be very pleased to see a Labour revival in Scotland as that strengthens the case for the union

    And the less said about RT in Wales the better
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
    Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
    When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
    It was deliberate and it was done twice.

    First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
    Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.

    Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.

    I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
    The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.

    But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.

    Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
    Putting things in context

    The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile

    The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day

    The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president

    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/la-tribune-d-anciens-militaires-contre-le-delitement-de-la-france-enflamme-le-debat-politique-20210426

    I think Ill stick with the wallpaper
    The UK is "fretting" about the probity of its PM. This is allowed, I think, despite this being a big old complex world with lots of bad stuff going on.
    The probity is about the substantial improvement of a tax payer owned property at absolutely zero cost to the taxpayer. Only in the UK!
    Undercover gifting to the PM for influence is the issue with this. And it's just one of the many dodgeball schemes that have come to light. They're piling up.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    For the poster upthread who has not heard Carrie Symonds speaking.... here she is. She speaks with good diction, a big plus imho.
    https://www.facebook.com/itvnews/videos/2358548594388328/

    "Daddy. I want another pony"
    Very childish.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    For the poster upthread who has not heard Carrie Symonds speaking.... here she is. She speaks with good diction, a big plus imho.
    https://www.facebook.com/itvnews/videos/2358548594388328/

    Our boy SR2 out here simpin' hard.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,189
    MattW said:

    One for @Casino_Royale

    Epicurious
    @epicurious
    Today we announced that Epicurious is cutting out beef. It won’t appear in new Epi recipes, articles, newsletters, or on social. This isn’t a vendetta against cows or people who eat them. It’s a shift about sustainability; not anti-beef but pro-planet.

    That's more pro-PR than pro-Planet.

    Fools. Differences in beef production systems can give differences in emission levels of 5x. Just like everything else.

    Over time it can be fixed or optimised.


    There's beef farming and there's beef farming


  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Dura_Ace said:



    The French Army up for a fight? I've seen it all now.

    Ossuaire de Douaumont


    I know, I've been there, as you may have noticed I mention Verdun a few posts ago.

    Like Colleville-sur-Mer it really does hit you just how many people died in the two world wars.
    The ones that stick with me most are the German war cemetries. Lots of dead soldiers piled up in as little ground as the invaded nations begrudgingly gave up. Langemarck in Belgium sticks out.

    By contrast the German cemetry in Cannock is more llike our own with lots of space and well tended. Most of the dead were POWs or pilots.
    Yes it was very noticeable that (certainly the ones that I have visited) the Allied cemeteries are bright, open, sunny, light, whereas the German ones were shaded with placques on the ground for the dead rather than crosses. A completely different mood. I think they were very well done, actually.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".

    It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.

    He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.

    Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.

    The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.

    Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.

    @Philip_Thompson, for example, after a quiet day yesterday getting his story together for today, has come back all guns blazing. I paraphrase, but "Boris saved the lives of the nation with his clarion call on vaccinations", a fair point, and indeed all the other nonsense for Johnson is just froth.

    On the news last night LauraK. took us into Mrs May's dour beige Downing Street flat, proof if it were needed that a tasteful makeover was desperately required, irrespective of who paid. But back to the saved lives element of the story. Isn't Johnson's popularity all about his Churchillian patriotism, leading the nation from the front to defeat the pandemic? Indeed it is, and should his callous, angry quip be true, it might cause him a problem. And if it does, will Mr and Mrs Sunak, just have to live with Carrie's god-awful wallpaper?
    Or - radical idea - they can buy some new wallpaper or cans of paint like the rest of the world do.
    Call me boring if you want but I don't see what's wrong with a can of Magnolia from B&Q. Good enough for me.

    What others do on their walls - to be honest I couldn't care less, so long as I'm not expected to pay for it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".

    It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.

    He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.

    Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.

    The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.

    Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.

    True, though with an important caveat.

    Johnson is probably the only one who can hold this version of the Conservative Party together.

    We've had discussions about Labour's problem of holding their trendy young voters and regaining their Red Wall voters. But the idea that you can hold the stereotypical voters in Surrey and Sunderland together is just as ambitious.

    Johnson can do it, of course. He's used to keeping wife and mistress happy... At least for a while. But no alternative successor will be able to do it half as well. Even Johnson might struggle a bit, once normal politics and reality restart, and you can't solve the cake and eat it problem by the Bank of England issuing cakes on the bond market.

    And that's where the opportunity really lies.
    He's used to keeping wife and mistress happy....brilliant - it sums up for me the enigma that is B Johnson's electoral appeal.
    There are only so many electorates you can disappoint and ditch for another, though.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,405
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
    Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
    When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
    It was deliberate and it was done twice.

    First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
    Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.

    Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.

    I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
    The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.

    But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.

    Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
    Putting things in context

    The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile

    The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day

    The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president

    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/la-tribune-d-anciens-militaires-contre-le-delitement-de-la-france-enflamme-le-debat-politique-20210426

    I think Ill stick with the wallpaper
    The UK is "fretting" about the probity of its PM. This is allowed, I think, despite this being a big old complex world with lots of bad stuff going on.

    LOL show me a UK PM whose probity wasnt questionable. Likewise a LOTO

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    Dura_Ace said:



    The French Army up for a fight? I've seen it all now.

    Ossuaire de Douaumont


    I know, I've been there, as you may have noticed I mention Verdun a few posts ago.

    Like Colleville-sur-Mer it really does hit you just how many people died in the two world wars.
    Near Hanover there's a British military cemetery with the grave of someone who was killed on May 7th 1945. His poor family!!

    But the saddest one to which I've been was that at Kanchanaburi, Thailand. All those young men who died as PoW's as a result of brutality and neglect.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    UBS needs a decent compliance/investigations director in place to sort this stuff out.
    UBS reveals a $774m loss on Archegos trades - plus another $87m hit coming next quarter. But previously they said it was "not material"

    'Tis but a flesh wound ?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    I am enjoying Roger having a damascene conversion on The Mail and Cummings. Gone from racist lies and mad unelected eugenicist to paragons of virtue interested in nothing more than what is best for the UK overnight.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    ClippP said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
    Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
    When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
    It was deliberate and it was done twice.

    First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
    Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.

    Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.

    I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
    So, why do you think this government is carrying out a campaign of mass murder of its own citizens? What’s the advantage to them?
    I do not think that anybody believes that Johnson deliberately set out to kill thousands of our fellow citizens. Just that he wanted a good headline for himself, and the deaths of so many people were of no importance to him. So he didn't stop to think of the implications of what he was doing. It was just a matter of "Boris just being Boris" - which is quite enough excuse for most of our PB Conservatives.

    The encouraging thing is that several Conservatives here are now ex-Conservatives. And this seems to hold true in the big world outside too. I have met quite a lot of ex-Conservatives in recent weeks (relatively speaking of course, given restrictions) and wonder if other PB posters have found the same.
    There's a world outside? With people in it? What do they do?
  • For the poster upthread who has not heard Carrie Symonds speaking.... here she is. She speaks with good diction, a big plus imho.
    https://www.facebook.com/itvnews/videos/2358548594388328/

    "Daddy. I want another pony"
    Very childish.
    Upthread someone said that Carrie had a Violet Beauregarde thing going. With that voice I can see why they said it.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Roger said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
    Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
    When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
    It was deliberate and it was done twice.

    First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
    Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.

    Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.

    I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
    The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.

    But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.

    Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
    Putting things in context

    The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile

    The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day

    The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president

    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/la-tribune-d-anciens-militaires-contre-le-delitement-de-la-france-enflamme-le-debat-politique-20210426

    I think Ill stick with the wallpaper
    The UK is "fretting" about the probity of its PM. This is allowed, I think, despite this being a big old complex world with lots of bad stuff going on.
    The probity is about the substantial improvement of a tax payer owned property at absolutely zero cost to the taxpayer. Only in the UK!

    "Only in the UK!"

    You should travel more....
    Name another Country where a scandal would be made out of the fact that the taxpayer owned residence of the Country's PM has a substantial improvement to it at zero cost to the taxpayer. Everywhere else this would be seen as a good thing. Its like a Housing Association complaining that one of its tenants paid for a new kitchen and bathroom to be fitted , thereby improving the HA's asset, at zero cost to the Housing Association.

    The next tenant of the property will benefit from the new kitchen and bathroom in the same way as the next PM will benefit from the improvements that have been carried out.

    Look at India today, its heartbreaking watching people desperately trying to find oxygen for their loved ones, yet the headline news here is about our PM paying for the significant improvements on a property that is taxpayer owned. BJ does not own this property, he just lives there.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,589
    edited April 2021
    TOPPING said:

    As people have said it depends on the context - I don't want to add to the great posts about this today.

    I would say, however, that as we know Boris' instinct is to make people happy and anti-restrictions of freedom. I can't quite remember when all the lockdowns started and finished (first Mar 23 - Jun ??; was there a second?; third Jan - Jun).

    But I think it absolutely reasonable for a PM to question whether it is right and correct to keep the whole nation locked down for what, 10 out of 15 months.

    Of course, we want to know - but never will - the context, tone, and intent of his comment. If he made it.

    So for me the thought of questioning lockdown is a good one; the flippancy if that is what it was, about tens of thousands of deaths is unforgiveable (and cf my example yesterday if he'd been so blase - in private or anywhere else - about, say, the death of a British soldier on ops).

    The second English lockdown was in November to early December.

    The problem was the preference for lockdowns rather than border control.

    A view shared by pretty much all the political and media class.

    They were willing for the bodies to pile up by the tens of thousands so that Kay Burley could go to South Africa and Boris could go to India.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Curious that Sturgeon and Drakeford were equally loathe to have lockdowns as Boris.

    Perhaps they wanted to 'pile the bodies high' as well ?

    Or perhaps there are costs with such decisions.

    Lock them up!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    This is one of those things I guess you feel you have to *say* in politics, while fervently hoping it doesn't happen. If there's one party in Scotland that views Boris Johnson as an electoral asset, its the SNP - and that would apply in a referendum campaign just as much as #SP21

    https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1386958664062361604?s=20
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    "If anyone wants to put a small bet on the next “black swan” to hit the markets, an implosion of French debt should be right at the top of the list"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/04/26/never-mind-debts-greece-italy-france-heading-crisis/

    Unlikely. The ECB has a direct financing programme now, not even just an emergency one to avoid any auction failures like here, it just buys government bonds directly from the state.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    Pulpstar said:

    MattW said:

    One for @Casino_Royale

    Epicurious
    @epicurious
    Today we announced that Epicurious is cutting out beef. It won’t appear in new Epi recipes, articles, newsletters, or on social. This isn’t a vendetta against cows or people who eat them. It’s a shift about sustainability; not anti-beef but pro-planet.

    That's more pro-PR than pro-Planet.

    Fools. Differences in beef production systems can give differences in emission levels of 5x. Just like everything else.

    Over time it can be fixed or optimised.


    There's beef farming and there's beef farming


    Correct.

    Which is why kneejerks are for fools.
  • There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".

    It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.

    He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.

    Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.

    The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.

    Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.

    @Philip_Thompson, for example, after a quiet day yesterday getting his story together for today, has come back all guns blazing. I paraphrase, but "Boris saved the lives of the nation with his clarion call on vaccinations", a fair point, and indeed all the other nonsense for Johnson is just froth.

    On the news last night LauraK. took us into Mrs May's dour beige Downing Street flat, proof if it were needed that a tasteful makeover was desperately required, irrespective of who paid. But back to the saved lives element of the story. Isn't Johnson's popularity all about his Churchillian patriotism, leading the nation from the front to defeat the pandemic? Indeed it is, and should his callous, angry quip be true, it might cause him a problem. And if it does, will Mr and Mrs Sunak, just have to live with Carrie's god-awful wallpaper?
    Or - radical idea - they can buy some new wallpaper or cans of paint like the rest of the world do.
    Call me boring if you want but I don't see what's wrong with a can of Magnolia from B&Q. Good enough for me.

    What others do on their walls - to be honest I couldn't care less, so long as I'm not expected to pay for it.
    I'm sorry but £60k to redecorate a small flat is a racket. Its twatty wallpaper sold at ludicrous prices to effete snobs. Someone posted the Harry and Paul "I saw you coming" sketch the other day and its literally that.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.

    The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
    It’s true though.

    Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
    I suggest you go and research what the criminal act of money laundering is all about.
    A deliberately obfuscatory way to avoid it looking as if Boris is taking money directly from donors.

    (But which he has now been forced to pay back).

    I wonder if he has paid tax on what was effectively a loan.
    Oh good, you have dropped the libellous accusation of the serious criminal offence of money laundering.
    No I haven’t. It’s effectively a form of money laundering, albeit a legal one. The intent was to obscure the source of funds.
    Deary me.

    “Effectively a form of rape but a legal one”.
    “Effectively a form of murder but a legal one”.
    Etc...
    Both rape (in a conjugal context) and murder (the act of killing someone, maybe in wartime) have been legal in the past and the latter may still be.

    Come down from your fake moral high ground.
    Nonetheless you are wrong in describing this as money laundering. Only if the money for the refurbishment came from the proceeds of crime could its use be described as money laundering.

    There may well be other concerns: eg payment in expectation of reward / failure to comply with electoral rules on donations etc. But these do not per se make what has happened money-laundering.
    It's actually kind of the opposite to money laundering. They've taken clean money and turned it into dirty money. Dirty money being a good description of cash donated under the counter to Boris Johnson to buy influence.
    How do we know it wasn't? Just asking!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    As people have said it depends on the context - I don't want to add to the great posts about this today.

    I would say, however, that as we know Boris' instinct is to make people happy and anti-restrictions of freedom. I can't quite remember when all the lockdowns started and finished (first Mar 23 - Jun ??; was there a second?; third Jan - Jun).

    But I think it absolutely reasonable for a PM to question whether it is right and correct to keep the whole nation locked down for what, 10 out of 15 months.

    Of course, we want to know - but never will - the context, tone, and intent of his comment. If he made it.

    So for me the thought of questioning lockdown is a good one; the flippancy if that is what it was, about tens of thousands of deaths is unforgiveable (and cf my example yesterday if he'd been so blase - in private or anywhere else - about, say, the death of a British soldier on ops).

    The second English lockdown was in November to early December.

    The problem was the preference for lockdowns rather than border control.

    A view shared by pretty much all the political and media class.

    They were willing for the bodies to pile up by the tens of thousands so that Kay Burley could go to South Africa and Boris could go to India.
    I'm not sure although take the point. It was the "Kent" variant. Was it so named because it emerged in Kent? If so then travel was incidental to the 2nd wave?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.

    If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
    https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1

    That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
    I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
    Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
    When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
    It was deliberate and it was done twice.

    First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
    Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.

    Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.

    I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
    The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.

    But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.

    Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
    Putting things in context

    The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile

    The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day

    The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president

    https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/la-tribune-d-anciens-militaires-contre-le-delitement-de-la-france-enflamme-le-debat-politique-20210426

    I think Ill stick with the wallpaper
    The UK is "fretting" about the probity of its PM. This is allowed, I think, despite this being a big old complex world with lots of bad stuff going on.

    LOL show me a UK PM whose probity wasnt questionable. Likewise a LOTO

    I think the context is set by Chirac's 10-15m a month when Mayor of Paris.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Andy_JS said:

    Anecdotal stories from India hospitals that Remdesivir isn't helping much against their local variant.

    Disappointing.
    More than disappointing, worrying.....its no magic bullet, but it has saved loads of lives.
    Remember that lots of these pieces of anecdotal ‘evidence’ have proved unworthy of the billing since COVID began. Most in fact. So I’d suggest waiting for proper evidence before jumping to any conclusions.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Spectacular. (Though quite possibly not true.)

    The finalists in a men’s beauty contest in 1919.
    https://twitter.com/lookatDworld/status/1386871618799128577
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    As people have said it depends on the context - I don't want to add to the great posts about this today.

    I would say, however, that as we know Boris' instinct is to make people happy and anti-restrictions of freedom. I can't quite remember when all the lockdowns started and finished (first Mar 23 - Jun ??; was there a second?; third Jan - Jun).

    But I think it absolutely reasonable for a PM to question whether it is right and correct to keep the whole nation locked down for what, 10 out of 15 months.

    Of course, we want to know - but never will - the context, tone, and intent of his comment. If he made it.

    So for me the thought of questioning lockdown is a good one; the flippancy if that is what it was, about tens of thousands of deaths is unforgiveable (and cf my example yesterday if he'd been so blase - in private or anywhere else - about, say, the death of a British soldier on ops).

    The second English lockdown was in November to early December.

    The problem was the preference for lockdowns rather than border control.

    A view shared by pretty much all the political and media class.

    They were willing for the bodies to pile up by the tens of thousands so that Kay Burley could go to South Africa and Boris could go to India.
    I'm not sure although take the point. It was the "Kent" variant. Was it so named because it emerged in Kent? If so then travel was incidental to the 2nd wave?
    It was called Kent because that was where it was first identified. There is every chance it was introduced into this county by somebody flying back from a jaunt somewhere.
This discussion has been closed.