Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
At the moment, no, especially when most of it is really small stuff.
I thought John Rentoul was quite right with his summary.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
You were not so worried when Blair was lying through his back teeth, nor the odious Brown. Your instinct is to go all Guardian on anything you post (especially if its a Tory) and that rag has had and has some pretty nasty people working for it.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
That's 2 Union 2 Green and one tie from the last five. After years of Union leads. Enough to declare something has changed. Linke and AfD stable.
I've got a bet from years ago with someone here (Max I think?) that Linke and AfD combined will be sub-35%
That's looking pretty certain now in my eyes. The collapse away from the SPD and CDU seems to have all gone to the Greens instead of Linke or AfD. Which is good for Germany in my opinion.
The FDP has also done well from the collapse of the CDU/CSU - don't forget they missed the 5% threshold not that long ago.
True, true. Which again is very good news.
Had 35-40% of Germany backed Linke or AfD then proper governance would have become nigh on impossible.
I'm curious what form of coalition will come out of the negotiations in the end, considering the SPD really don't want to be junior partners again, and if the Greens come first neither probably do the CDU.
Green + [either CDU/CSU or SPD] + FDP would be my guess. Strange rainbow.
That poll points to an unworkable stalemate.
Would that political insecurity bad for Germany be great for Brexit Britain?
I think yes. I think Boris is one of the luckiest politicians ever.
Add to the imminent very weak Germany, the EU is under weak leadership lost on Ireland. The Scots Nats may box themselves in calling a referendum they lose badly.
Tory party funding painter and decorator in a flat insignificant compared to everything moving his way.
I've always said there's no government like no government. Italy, Belgium and the Netherlands have always prospered most with weak or non-existent governments, and it's only when they've had the smack of strong leadership that things have gone particularly badly.
Yes, in Britain we have the cult of the leader too, but I don't see much evidence that autocracy is a good form of government.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
Does the Downing Street wallpaper thing (ie 58,000 `loaned' to the PM) actually cut through with voters...? I am genuinely unsure
My sister said that she thought the renovation was ghastly and that John Lewis would have been preferable. That's the relevance it has .
I think the problem is, it shows he has no taste, no sense and no integrity.
But everyone already knew that. It is a big part of who he is. Indeed, the fact he is somebody who cocks a snook at the rules is a big part of his appeal.
So I don’t see how it will damage him at the moment.
The lockdown stuff is potentially more serious, but again, we know he’s careless with words. So what’s new?
What would be needed to damage him is something that goes against that persona. Say, tamely following civil service advice all the time and cocking it up as a result. That, I think, is where the risk lies for him over his actions.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
I wonder whether Jeremy Corbyn would have voted with the government on each and every occasion over the past year.
On a point of order, Astra Zeneca didn't develop the vaccine at all. It was developed by the University of Oxford, and one of the conditions of licensing was that it was sold at cost.
Given they took it through clinical trials, and into bulk manufacturing, it would be completely inaccurate to say they didn’t develop it. Someone else invented it, sure.
Fair point.
It's also true that AZN is constrained in its ability to make money from the vaccine only while there is a WHO-declared pandemic. Once covid becomes endemic and we move to booster shots etc, the licensing terms imposed by Oxford change and the cash will start to roll in - especially given how easy vaccine is to produce compared to the platform ones. If you look at AZN's share price and compare its performance over the last year with those of other Big Pharma companies that have no covid vaccine you will see it standing up pretty well.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
I wonder whether Jeremy Corbyn would have voted with the government on each and every occasion over the past year.
He would have voted against. It would have made no difference to anything. But Labour would be even further behind because he is more disliked than Keir Starmer.
Does the Downing Street wallpaper thing (ie 58,000 `loaned' to the PM) actually cut through with voters...? I am genuinely unsure
My sister said that she thought the renovation was ghastly and that John Lewis would have been preferable. That's the relevance it has .
I think the problem is, it shows he has no taste, no sense and no integrity.
But everyone already knew that. It is a big part of who he is. Indeed, the fact he is somebody who cocks a snook at the rules is a big part of his appeal.
So I don’t see how it will damage him at the moment.
The lockdown stuff is potentially more serious, but again, we know he’s careless with words. So what’s new?
What would be needed to damage him is something that goes against that persona. Say, tamely following civil service advice all the time and cocking it up as a result. That, I think, is where the risk lies for him over his actions.
I think the taste is all Carrie's. I don't think Johnson cares about such things, indeed probably doesn't even notice them.
I don't think that the sleaze, chumocracy and multiple hands in the till will be enough for next weeks elections, but may well tell in the end. Johnson has a history of accumulating enemies who like their revenge served cold.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
In this country, yes.
In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
I wonder whether Jeremy Corbyn would have voted with the government on each and every occasion over the past year.
He would have voted against. It would have made no difference to anything. But Labour would be even further behind because he is more disliked than Keir Starmer.
Really? He has a long history of voting with Tories and I’m sure he would have been keen on the idea of mass borrowing to give everyone free money.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
The Labour Party are even more pointless than usual at the moment. It's just two groups of corrupt capitalists arguing over which if them would strike the better balance between mass repression and mass death.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
I wonder whether Jeremy Corbyn would have voted with the government on each and every occasion over the past year.
The reason the Opposition isn't cutting through, unlike say in America, is that rather than the country ran by a lunatic who proposes injecting bleach as a solution - in this country we've got a government that has followed the science, got the big calls right and the Opposition have had nothing to oppose as a result.
That's why they've voted with the Government every time. Because even they know the Government is doing a good job.
Does the Downing Street wallpaper thing (ie 58,000 `loaned' to the PM) actually cut through with voters...? I am genuinely unsure
My sister said that she thought the renovation was ghastly and that John Lewis would have been preferable. That's the relevance it has .
I think the problem is, it shows he has no taste, no sense and no integrity.
But everyone already knew that. It is a big part of who he is. Indeed, the fact he is somebody who cocks a snook at the rules is a big part of his appeal.
So I don’t see how it will damage him at the moment.
The lockdown stuff is potentially more serious, but again, we know he’s careless with words. So what’s new?
What would be needed to damage him is something that goes against that persona. Say, tamely following civil service advice all the time and cocking it up as a result. That, I think, is where the risk lies for him over his actions.
I think the taste is all Carrie's. I don't think Johnson cares about such things, indeed probably doesn't even notice them.
I don't think that the sleaze, chumocracy and multiple hands in the till will be enough for next weeks elections, but may well tell in the end. Johnson has a history of accumulating enemies who like their revenge served cold.
His fall (as Enoch P said, all political careers end in failure) should be fast and dramatic - could be worth the wait.
Epicurious @epicurious Today we announced that Epicurious is cutting out beef. It won’t appear in new Epi recipes, articles, newsletters, or on social. This isn’t a vendetta against cows or people who eat them. It’s a shift about sustainability; not anti-beef but pro-planet.
There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".
It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.
He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.
Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.
The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.
Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
You were not so worried when Blair was lying through his back teeth, nor the odious Brown. Your instinct is to go all Guardian on anything you post (especially if its a Tory) and that rag has had and has some pretty nasty people working for it.
Yes, but the current Prime Minister has been sacked for lying a couple of times, and has an extensive past history of lies in his personal life. I don't think even his supporters here defend him as a shining sword of truth, just as an election winner.
That Johnson is a veteran election winner is really his only attribute. There is no substance behind him, no ideology, no long term plan, no desire to make hard choices in the long term interest of the country, just spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave.
When he ceases to look like an election winner, his fall will be swift and total, because there is no hinterland of loyalty or ideology. The Tory party will discard him as casually and totally as Johnson does his mistresses once they have outlived their usefulness.
There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".
It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.
He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.
Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.
The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.
Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.
That it took so many paragraphs for you to explain it all shows why you are wrong!!
Epicurious @epicurious Today we announced that Epicurious is cutting out beef. It won’t appear in new Epi recipes, articles, newsletters, or on social. This isn’t a vendetta against cows or people who eat them. It’s a shift about sustainability; not anti-beef but pro-planet.
No idea who Epicurious are.
If I did I'd be cutting out Epi recipes from my life. Not even that big of a beef fan, I like it but prefer chicken generally, but if anyone is that perverted I want nothing to do with them.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
In this country, yes.
In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.
Otherwise we'd see Trump in his second term now.
Trump faced an election last November having presided over a disastrous covid response, before the vaccines started to roll-out. If you look at the polling in the UK between November and January it looks very different to the way it does now.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
In this country, yes.
In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.
Otherwise we'd see Trump in his second term now.
Trump faced an election last November having presided over a disastrous covid response, before the vaccines started to roll-out. If you look at the polling in the UK between November and January it looks very different to the way it does now.
The most well trodden alternative histories tend to include, What if Harold won at Hastings, what if Hitler had the bomb, or what if JFK had but a scratch?
An interesting one in the future will be, what if there was no covid vaccine?
Metro: Slurry of sleaze Mail: Boris on the ropes Express: Boris denies ‘let bodies pile high’ outburst Times: Johnson ‘said he would let COVID rip” in lockdown row Star: [Boris]- My pants are NOT on fire.. Telegraph: PM fights to move on from leaks row Mirror: Now three people say Johnson raged ‘let bodies pile high’ Guardian: Pressure on Johnson after claim of slur on COVID dead i: Boris tainted by sleaze, say voters
It's really going to piss you off when he gets away with this, isn't it?
All the LAB supporters on here need to know and understand that it is a LONG time to the next General Election...
Indeed. Whether it's a LONG time to a change of PM is a more open question. My MP (Jeremy Hunt) would, I suspect, think that an interesting question.
As for BluestBlue's thoughts, I can be as partisan as the next man, but I'm not sure I'd joke about someone I liked allegedly talking blithely about tolerating thousands of bodies and then following policies that led to precisely that. It's not really just a game. If he didn't say it, fine. If he did, are you OK with it, BB?
It was always the trade off.
The way to minimise road deaths would be to ban all transport and lock people in their houses 24/7
But governments don’t do that
Are they therefore responsible for all road deaths?
There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".
It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.
He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.
Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.
The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.
Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.
That it took so many paragraphs for you to explain it all shows why you are wrong!!
I've set out my argument. If you want a shorter version - lying about saying it will sink him, not saying it. I know that you are stuck in a "this is hopeless" for Labour position and on that you are correct. It won't cut through to the polls. But I think it will cut through to cut down Boris.
There are an awful lot of grieving people out there. Liar let their granny die for headlines. Doesn't get worse than that.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
In this country, yes.
In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.
Otherwise we'd see Trump in his second term now.
Trump faced an election last November having presided over a disastrous covid response, before the vaccines started to roll-out. If you look at the polling in the UK between November and January it looks very different to the way it does now.
Yes, America had a disastrous Covid response. The UK didn't, the UK weren't advising bleach or any of that other claptrap.
Yes there was an artificial slump but even then (narrowly) based on the LOESS chart for opinion polls on Wikipedia at no stage was there crossover between the red and blue lines. Even at the trough before the Government's work on vaccines paid the two parties essentially came to parity.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
No he did not and no one apart from obsessives believes that.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
In this country, yes.
In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.
Otherwise we'd see Trump in his second term now.
Trump faced an election last November having presided over a disastrous covid response, before the vaccines started to roll-out. If you look at the polling in the UK between November and January it looks very different to the way it does now.
Yes, America had a disastrous Covid response. The UK didn't, the UK weren't advising bleach or any of that other claptrap.
Yes there was an artificial slump but even then (narrowly) based on the LOESS chart for opinion polls on Wikipedia at no stage was there crossover between the red and blue lines. Even at the trough before the Government's work on vaccines paid the two parties essentially came to parity.
Britain has had the highest death rate and worst economic outturn of its key peer economies.
Our death rate is TWICE that or Ireland, who are just next door and almost culturally identical to us. While population density and ethnic mix can explain some difference, the rest is basically government policy.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
Chose to Kill ????, and I was told mine was the dumbest comment yesterday.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
The allegations have nothing to do with Christmas. They related to the debate over the second lockdown, not the third.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
In this country, yes.
In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.
Otherwise we'd see Trump in his second term now.
Trump faced an election last November having presided over a disastrous covid response, before the vaccines started to roll-out. If you look at the polling in the UK between November and January it looks very different to the way it does now.
Yes, America had a disastrous Covid response. The UK didn't, the UK weren't advising bleach or any of that other claptrap.
Yes there was an artificial slump but even then (narrowly) based on the LOESS chart for opinion polls on Wikipedia at no stage was there crossover between the red and blue lines. Even at the trough before the Government's work on vaccines paid the two parties essentially came to parity.
The fact is that the polls in the UK looked very different before the vaccine started to roll-out. There are very few oppositions anywhere that have proactively seized the initiative and started to set the agenda. Instead, politics everywhere is revolving around government responses to the pandemic.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
In this country, yes.
In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.
Otherwise we'd see Trump in his second term now.
Trump faced an election last November having presided over a disastrous covid response, before the vaccines started to roll-out. If you look at the polling in the UK between November and January it looks very different to the way it does now.
Yes, America had a disastrous Covid response. The UK didn't, the UK weren't advising bleach or any of that other claptrap.
Yes there was an artificial slump but even then (narrowly) based on the LOESS chart for opinion polls on Wikipedia at no stage was there crossover between the red and blue lines. Even at the trough before the Government's work on vaccines paid the two parties essentially came to parity.
Britain has had the highest death rate and worst economic outturn of its key peer economies.
Our death rate is TWICE that or Ireland, who are just next door and almost culturally identical to. While population density and ethnic mix can explain some difference, the rest is basically government policy.
Population density etc explains all of the difference.
And economic data is because of how we measure things differently, measuring based on output for public expenditure instead of inputs is a key variant. Plus thanks to the UK having the best vaccine rollout of its peers, we're due for the best economic recovery too.
The facts are not on your side. By 2024 the UK will likely have a better Covid outcome and better economic outcome, because the pandemic has been well managed here. Which is why the Opposition were incapable of voting against at any stage, because they had nothing better to say.
"@JackPosobiec BREAKING: California Secretary of State announces the signature threshold for recalling Gavin Newsom has been met. Election to be held later this year."
I think Mr Newson has been fortunate: CV19 cases are among the lowest in the US, life is returning to normal in CA, vaccine uptake is very high relative to (say) Mississippi, and I think he'll walk the recall election.
If this had happened last November, he'd have been in real trouble.
I'm not sure you can write off Caitlyn Jenner.
No, I'm pretty sure you can write off Caitlin Jenner.
For tax at least.
She has so many mechanical parts I’d be interested in her depreciation policy
The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.
The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
It’s true though.
Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
I suggest you go and research what the criminal act of money laundering is all about.
A deliberately obfuscatory way to avoid it looking as if Boris is taking money directly from donors.
(But which he has now been forced to pay back).
I wonder if he has paid tax on what was effectively a loan.
Good morning everyone.
I wonder, from whence came the money to pay back the loan? He has complained of being hard up, and I don't think, for example, that we've heard of a nanny being appointed.
USA and UK vaccination doses per population are neck and neck right now.
Way things are going, UK will be overtaking Israel shortly as it is seems Israel have run out of people who want to be jabbed.
They also have far more kids than we do, so their maximum percentage of the population is lower than us.
I believe Israel is at around 77% of adults jabbed - the vast, vast majority of whom have been double-jabbed. We probably won't be at that level of adults double jabbed until late June or July, given the long time gaps with the AZ vaccine.
Israel is set to approve Pfizer in 11-16 year olds soon, that will increase the proportion of the population they have got vaccinated quite substantially.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
In this country, yes.
In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.
Otherwise we'd see Trump in his second term now.
Trump faced an election last November having presided over a disastrous covid response, before the vaccines started to roll-out. If you look at the polling in the UK between November and January it looks very different to the way it does now.
Yes, America had a disastrous Covid response. The UK didn't, the UK weren't advising bleach or any of that other claptrap.
Yes there was an artificial slump but even then (narrowly) based on the LOESS chart for opinion polls on Wikipedia at no stage was there crossover between the red and blue lines. Even at the trough before the Government's work on vaccines paid the two parties essentially came to parity.
Britain has had the highest death rate and worst economic outturn of its key peer economies.
Our death rate is TWICE that or Ireland, who are just next door and almost culturally identical to us. While population density and ethnic mix can explain some difference, the rest is basically government policy.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
In this country, yes.
In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.
Otherwise we'd see Trump in his second term now.
Trump faced an election last November having presided over a disastrous covid response, before the vaccines started to roll-out. If you look at the polling in the UK between November and January it looks very different to the way it does now.
Yes, America had a disastrous Covid response. The UK didn't, the UK weren't advising bleach or any of that other claptrap.
Yes there was an artificial slump but even then (narrowly) based on the LOESS chart for opinion polls on Wikipedia at no stage was there crossover between the red and blue lines. Even at the trough before the Government's work on vaccines paid the two parties essentially came to parity.
Britain has had the highest death rate and worst economic outturn of its key peer economies.
Our death rate is TWICE that or Ireland, who are just next door and almost culturally identical to us. While population density and ethnic mix can explain some difference, the rest is basically government policy.
The only measure which comes anywhere near internationally comparable and accurate figures is that of excess deaths. All else is just the different ways different countries have defined deaths from Covid. And even then culturals norms/density and distribution of population/economic wealths/health systems/ et al can all distort the result. And not to forget we are not yet at the end point.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
It was deliberate and it was done twice.
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
In this country, yes.
In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.
Otherwise we'd see Trump in his second term now.
Trump faced an election last November having presided over a disastrous covid response, before the vaccines started to roll-out. If you look at the polling in the UK between November and January it looks very different to the way it does now.
Yes, America had a disastrous Covid response. The UK didn't, the UK weren't advising bleach or any of that other claptrap.
Yes there was an artificial slump but even then (narrowly) based on the LOESS chart for opinion polls on Wikipedia at no stage was there crossover between the red and blue lines. Even at the trough before the Government's work on vaccines paid the two parties essentially came to parity.
Britain has had the highest death rate and worst economic outturn of its key peer economies.
Our death rate is TWICE that or Ireland, who are just next door and almost culturally identical to. While population density and ethnic mix can explain some difference, the rest is basically government policy.
Population density etc explains all of the difference.
And economic data is because of how we measure things differently, measuring based on output for public expenditure instead of inputs is a key variant. Plus thanks to the UK having the best vaccine rollout of its peers, we're due for the best economic recovery too.
The facts are not on your side. By 2024 the UK will likely have a better Covid outcome and better economic outcome, because the pandemic has been well managed here. Which is why the Opposition were incapable of voting against at any stage, because they had nothing better to say.
Population density does not explain all.
Or we would be on a par with the Netherlands, whereas in reality we have a much higher death rate.
On economics you seem to be claiming that our figures cannot be trusted...
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
Anyway I was called for my second dose yesterday at 5 hours notice. As I was in London sorting out some urgent family issues (children!) I had to hotfoot it back to Barrow getting there just in time. Hooray! All very efficient. I was told that they had begged the vaccination centre in Grange for supplies.
It is a huge relief and big thanks go to all those involved.
I hope the momentum can be kept up for the younger age groups.
I must say I cannot be arsed with all the hoo ha about wallpaper etc.
The mystery to me is why it is taking so long to do a leak inquiry. I have done lots of these in my time and they really do not - and should not - take months. It is usually possible (if you know how to do them properly, a big "if" I grant you) to get an answer within days. Ditto re who paid for the wallpaper: this does not take months or even weeks to work out.
As for the "piling bodies high" comment, without context it is hard to judge - a comment made in exasperation is very different to one describing a deliberately chosen policy.
I yield to no-one in my dislike of this venal government and its amoral leader. But I will give it - and the NHS - credit for (a) choosing a good leader of the Vaccination Task Force, Kate Bingham (my initial criticisms of her appointment were misplaced); (b) spending the money needed to secure supplies; and (c) allowing the NHS to get on with its job, which it has done very well indeed.
Sometimes a politician has only to get one big call right or wrong to determine their reputation. Think Blair and Iraq. Too early to say whether the PM will be remembered for the vaccine programme or all his many failings. Maybe it will be both a la Lloyd George, who was an amoral priapic crook as well as a transformative PM.
That's 2 Union 2 Green and one tie from the last five. After years of Union leads. Enough to declare something has changed. Linke and AfD stable.
I've got a bet from years ago with someone here (Max I think?) that Linke and AfD combined will be sub-35%
That's looking pretty certain now in my eyes. The collapse away from the SPD and CDU seems to have all gone to the Greens instead of Linke or AfD. Which is good for Germany in my opinion.
The FDP has also done well from the collapse of the CDU/CSU - don't forget they missed the 5% threshold not that long ago.
True, true. Which again is very good news.
Had 35-40% of Germany backed Linke or AfD then proper governance would have become nigh on impossible.
I'm curious what form of coalition will come out of the negotiations in the end, considering the SPD really don't want to be junior partners again, and if the Greens come first neither probably do the CDU.
Green + [either CDU/CSU or SPD] + FDP would be my guess. Strange rainbow.
Greens plus Union is polling as the most popular option. I agree more likely if the Union edge it and get to keep the Chancellorship. Green SPD Linke is the governing coalition in 3 Lander, so not impossible. But, I agree the SPD wouldn't go for that easily.
Might there be possibility of "rotating chancellors" under a Black-Green coalition IF both sides are roughly equal? With CDU/CSU getting the high chair for part of the term, then Greens for the rest (or visa versa).
That's what they've got right now in Republic of Ireland with Fianna Fail & Fine Gael
Yes, though, even with the dire polling for FF, there's a suspicion that they might collapse the coalition when it comes time for them to hand back the position of Taoiseach to FG. So the rotation may not happen in practice.
Surely that would lead to an election? At which FF would receive their arses on a silver platter? Are they that stupid? Oh. Wait.
There was a strange dance after the last election where both FF and FG were looking for a way to enter opposition. With the Covid crisis past its acute, medical phase, FF may prefer a spell in opposition to becoming the junior partner in a FG-led government that has to deal with the aftermath.
Plus also a chance for ambitious rivals to topple Martin. Two ex-Ministers for Agriculture are nursing grievances.
And then, culturally, FF, the party of De Valera, support a FG Taoiseach?
They might get lucky with the timing of the leak investigation into Varadker, and even have a point of principle to hang all their other grievances onto.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
It was deliberate and it was done twice.
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
Every waking moment of your life. There seems to be nothing else to your existence than this.
Of course Johnson will get away with this. I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think otherwise. Take a step back and look at the reality of what the Tory-leaning part of the population is seeing and experiencing at the moment: * A hugely successful vaccine roll-out. * The permanent easing of the lockdown after a long, hard 14 months. * A furlough scheme protecting working age incomes. * The triple lock protecting the incomes of retirees. * Rising house prices.
On the back of all of this, economic optimism is soaring in a way it hasn't done for years, decades even.
Does anyone seriously believe that a bout of who said what and he should have declared that is going to have any impact on the national mood or voting intentions? It is an absurd proposition.
It will make the left happy to have something to go on. The,Opposition since SKS took over has been very lame.
The Opposition has been rendered entirely irrelevant at a time when there has been literally no other game in town except an unprecedented global pandemic. That continues to be the case now and will not change until well past the summer.
In this country, yes.
In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.
Otherwise we'd see Trump in his second term now.
Trump faced an election last November having presided over a disastrous covid response, before the vaccines started to roll-out. If you look at the polling in the UK between November and January it looks very different to the way it does now.
Yes, America had a disastrous Covid response. The UK didn't, the UK weren't advising bleach or any of that other claptrap.
Yes there was an artificial slump but even then (narrowly) based on the LOESS chart for opinion polls on Wikipedia at no stage was there crossover between the red and blue lines. Even at the trough before the Government's work on vaccines paid the two parties essentially came to parity.
Britain has had the highest death rate and worst economic outturn of its key peer economies.
Our death rate is TWICE that or Ireland, who are just next door and almost culturally identical to. While population density and ethnic mix can explain some difference, the rest is basically government policy.
Population density etc explains all of the difference.
And economic data is because of how we measure things differently, measuring based on output for public expenditure instead of inputs is a key variant. Plus thanks to the UK having the best vaccine rollout of its peers, we're due for the best economic recovery too.
The facts are not on your side. By 2024 the UK will likely have a better Covid outcome and better economic outcome, because the pandemic has been well managed here. Which is why the Opposition were incapable of voting against at any stage, because they had nothing better to say.
Population density does not explain all.
Or we would be on a par with the Netherlands, whereas in reality we have a much higher death rate.
On economics you seem to be claiming that our figures cannot be trusted...
We were on a par with the Netherlands until the Kent variant evolved. Had it been the Amsterdam variant that evolved then things would have played out very differently.
On economics I'm saying that our figures can't be compared to other nations figures during a lockdown. Our figures are more accurate, other countries are under-measuring the impact of disruption by only measuring inputs instead of outputs.
Over the long term this will wash out and the UK will rebound much higher and faster, both because of a better managed pandemic and because the disruption was measured properly here.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
Chose to Kill ????, and I was told mine was the dumbest comment yesterday.
National leaders often have to kill people when the alternative is to have more people killed as a result. I have no problem with that, its the hardest part of the job. What I would like is honesty. The PM could have shaken this off already - tough decisions, national emergency, I understand how dangerous covid is. Instead its another lie which means the story goes on and the evidence piles up.
There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".
It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.
He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.
Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.
The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.
Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.
That it took so many paragraphs for you to explain it all shows why you are wrong!!
I've set out my argument. If you want a shorter version - lying about saying it will sink him, not saying it. I know that you are stuck in a "this is hopeless" for Labour position and on that you are correct. It won't cut through to the polls. But I think it will cut through to cut down Boris.
There are an awful lot of grieving people out there. Liar let their granny die for headlines. Doesn't get worse than that.
What brings Johnson down is Tory MPs. They will only act if they feel their constituents are demanding it. Their constituents aren't. Johnson is very lucky this story has broken at a time when most voters are feeling positive. But he is a liar and a grifter, interested only in himself. Given that, further stories of a similar nature are going to break on a continuous basis. At some point one will coincide with people feeling less good about themselves and the economy. That's when Johnson will genuinely be in danger.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
It was deliberate and it was done twice.
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.
But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.
The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.
The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
It’s true though.
Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
I suggest you go and research what the criminal act of money laundering is all about.
A deliberately obfuscatory way to avoid it looking as if Boris is taking money directly from donors.
(But which he has now been forced to pay back).
I wonder if he has paid tax on what was effectively a loan.
Good morning everyone.
I wonder, from whence came the money to pay back the loan? He has complained of being hard up, and I don't think, for example, that we've heard of a nanny being appointed.
Yep. Undeclared house loan is a breach of the ministerial code and a resignation event. Declaring it ex post facto doesn't get you off - especially when you self-evidently don't have the money to pay it off.
However, there are no resignation events in his government...
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
It was deliberate and it was done twice.
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
So, why do you think this government is carrying out a campaign of mass murder of its own citizens? What’s the advantage to them?
I'm glad I'm no longer a member of the party, imagining having to defend this with a straight face, even worse, my subs and fundraising activities being used to give Boris Johnson a loan.
Anyway I was called for my second dose yesterday at 5 hours notice. As I was in London sorting out some urgent family issues (children!) I had to hotfoot it back to Barrow getting there just in time. Hooray! All very efficient. I was told that they had begged the vaccination centre in Grange for supplies.
It is a huge relief and big thanks go to all those involved.
I hope the momentum can be kept up for the younger age groups.
I must say I cannot be arsed with all the hoo ha about wallpaper etc.
The mystery to me is why it is taking so long to do a leak inquiry. I have done lots of these in my time and they really do not - and should not - take months. It is usually possible (if you know how to do them properly, a big "if" I grant you) to get an answer within days. Ditto re who paid for the wallpaper: this does not take months or even weeks to work out.
As for the "piling bodies high" comment, without context it is hard to judge - a comment made in exasperation is very different to one describing a deliberately chosen policy.
I yield to no-one in my dislike of this venal government and its amoral leader. But I will give it - and the NHS - credit for (a) choosing a good leader of the Vaccination Task Force, Kate Bingham (my initial criticisms of her appointment were misplaced); (b) spending the money needed to secure supplies; and (c) allowing the NHS to get on with its job, which it has done very well indeed.
Sometimes a politician has only to get one big call right or wrong to determine their reputation. Think Blair and Iraq. Too early to say whether the PM will be remembered for the vaccine programme or all his many failings. Maybe it will be both a la Lloyd George, who was an amoral priapic crook as well as a transformative PM.
Who started off from a higher base, but when he fell took down his party too. And into a decline from which it has never recovered.
On the bodies piling up story; IMHO the human race divides into three unequally sized groups according mostly to culture and personality type:
the majority who find such a remark always wicked and outrageous
a small minority who can say it and mean it (they are not very nice people)
a much larger minority, of whom Boris is one, who are completely capable of saying such a thing as rhetoric, exaggeration, attention seeking or ways of finding a final position on a difficult question.
A number of rap artists, and indeed artists generally, belong to the third group. The DM by and large doesn't.
Group two doesn't understand either of the other groups. Group one thinks that all the others are in group two. Group three have become accustomed by long sometimes bitter experience to the ways of group one.
Boris is an incontinent member of group three. Something in his incontinence will bring him down, but not, I suspect this one.
There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".
It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.
He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.
Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.
The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.
Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.
That it took so many paragraphs for you to explain it all shows why you are wrong!!
I've set out my argument. If you want a shorter version - lying about saying it will sink him, not saying it. I know that you are stuck in a "this is hopeless" for Labour position and on that you are correct. It won't cut through to the polls. But I think it will cut through to cut down Boris.
There are an awful lot of grieving people out there. Liar let their granny die for headlines. Doesn't get worse than that.
What brings Johnson down is Tory MPs. They will only act if they feel their constituents are demanding it. Their constituents aren't. Johnson is very lucky this story has broken at a time when most voters are feeling positive. But he is a liar and a grifter, interested only in himself. Given that, further stories of a similar nature are going to break on a continuous basis. At some point one will coincide with people feeling less good about themselves and the economy. That's when Johnson will genuinely be in danger.
I agree that it will be Tory MPs that resign him - he won't volunteer. Twitter chat from hacks that MPs are already feeling the heat from angry constituents and its being brought on the doorstep. The story won't stop now, and every day brings more revelations in the immediate run-up to the elections next week.
I don't see this deflecting many people away from voting Tory to vote for another party. But it may be enough to keep Tories at home and strengthen turnout for other parties. We've already seen the woeful ScotCons drop from 2nd to 3rd in the polls up here and we're not done yet.
Anyway I was called for my second dose yesterday at 5 hours notice. As I was in London sorting out some urgent family issues (children!) I had to hotfoot it back to Barrow getting there just in time. Hooray! All very efficient. I was told that they had begged the vaccination centre in Grange for supplies.
It is a huge relief and big thanks go to all those involved.
I hope the momentum can be kept up for the younger age groups.
I must say I cannot be arsed with all the hoo ha about wallpaper etc.
The mystery to me is why it is taking so long to do a leak inquiry. I have done lots of these in my time and they really do not - and should not - take months. It is usually possible (if you know how to do them properly, a big "if" I grant you) to get an answer within days. Ditto re who paid for the wallpaper: this does not take months or even weeks to work out.
As for the "piling bodies high" comment, without context it is hard to judge - a comment made in exasperation is very different to one describing a deliberately chosen policy.
I yield to no-one in my dislike of this venal government and its amoral leader. But I will give it - and the NHS - credit for (a) choosing a good leader of the Vaccination Task Force, Kate Bingham (my initial criticisms of her appointment were misplaced); (b) spending the money needed to secure supplies; and (c) allowing the NHS to get on with its job, which it has done very well indeed.
Sometimes a politician has only to get one big call right or wrong to determine their reputation. Think Blair and Iraq. Too early to say whether the PM will be remembered for the vaccine programme or all his many failings. Maybe it will be both a la Lloyd George, who was an amoral priapic crook as well as a transformative PM.
Great news you got your second dose, I know it was stressing you out. Happy for you! 👍
Also kudos to you for your remarks, especially regarding your former criticisms of Kate Bingham's appointment. It is always refreshing to see people put their hands up on calls like this, well done.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
Alternatively, let’s all go to the pub and catch up with people we haven’t seen in ages! (As most of the rest of Europe is still under heavy restrictions, and things globally have never been worse as the U.K. has mostly recovered).
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
It was deliberate and it was done twice.
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.
But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.
Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
Putting things in context
The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile
The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day
The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
It was deliberate and it was done twice.
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.
But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.
Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
Putting things in context
The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile
The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day
The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president
Goodness me we’ve approached tiresome silly season in the British media haven’t we.
SCANDAL: Political party pays for redecoration of official residence so it doesn’t fall on the taxpayer!!
DISGRACE: Unnamed sources disclose that man who nearly dies of covid still retains balance when assessing pros and cons of lockdown!!
If this is the best that long standing enemies can come up with after a year long cease fire, it only serves to show the PM has successfully navigated the choppy waters of both Brexit and the catastrophe of Covid. These are bulllets that would bounce off the Marshmellow Man, much less the Terminator.
If Gove is behind the briefing (Mail links suggest he might be), he will be out of government by Christmas is my guess.
The story is not who paid, but Johnson not declaring it. In previous governments this has been a resignation matter. Ask Peter Mandelson. But it is undoubtedly true that standards have so slipped under Johnson that at a time when economic optimism is soaring on the back of a highly successful vaccine roll-out this episode will have no effect on anything. Had the story broken at the start of the year, when the government and the PM were far less popular, it would probably have been a very different matter.
What did Peter Mandelson resign for?
I remember lying on a mortgage application and something to do with corruptly accelerating a passport application fir a billionaire. Was there something else as well?
I'm glad I'm no longer a member of the party, imagining having to defend this with a straight face, even worse, my subs and fundraising activities being used to give Boris Johnson a loan.
The man's a parasite.
Agreed. There hasn't been a single moment of regret in giving up my membership. In fact I'm reminded on a fairly regular basis on why it was such a good decision.
Talking about grade tossers at the apex of public life who like to hide things. (Fair play to him though for the choice of company name.)
The Duke of York has gone into business with a former Coutts banker who quit in disgrace over allegations of sexual harassment.
Prince Andrew has set up a company with Harry Keogh, who left the Queen’s bank in March 2018 after he was accused of touching a female colleague inappropriately and boasting about his sexual exploits.
The prince has previously faced questions over his close links to Jeffrey Epstein, the late billionaire financier accused of numerous sexual offences.
The new venture, which The Times understands will be a vehicle for Andrew’s family investments, is named Lincelles after the 18th-century battle against the French in which the British were commanded by the Duke of York.
It has been structured as an unlimited company, which means that it is not required to file accounts with Companies House and can avoid disclosing its profits or income. The duke controls 75 per cent of the business through the Urramoor Trust, with Keogh listed as a fellow controller.
A source close to Prince Andrew defended Keogh yesterday as a “friend and adviser to the duke”. The source described him as “the duke’s private banker for some 20 years”.
At Coutts he was accused of touching a woman’s groin while demonstrating the site of an injury. His behaviour was said to be so toxic that some female staff refused to work with him. The private bank carried out an investigation in 2015 and the chief executive recommended he leave, according to The Wall Street Journal. It was decided that he should stay, but he was disciplined and eventually resigned in March 2018.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
It was deliberate and it was done twice.
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.
But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.
Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
Putting things in context
The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile
The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day
The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president
Goodness me we’ve approached tiresome silly season in the British media haven’t we.
SCANDAL: Political party pays for redecoration of official residence so it doesn’t fall on the taxpayer!!
DISGRACE: Unnamed sources disclose that man who nearly dies of covid still retains balance when assessing pros and cons of lockdown!!
If this is the best that long standing enemies can come up with after a year long cease fire, it only serves to show the PM has successfully navigated the choppy waters of both Brexit and the catastrophe of Covid. These are bulllets that would bounce off the Marshmellow Man, much less the Terminator.
If Gove is behind the briefing (Mail links suggest he might be), he will be out of government by Christmas is my guess.
The story is not who paid, but Johnson not declaring it. In previous governments this has been a resignation matter. Ask Peter Mandelson. But it is undoubtedly true that standards have so slipped under Johnson that at a time when economic optimism is soaring on the back of a highly successful vaccine roll-out this episode will have no effect on anything. Had the story broken at the start of the year, when the government and the PM were far less popular, it would probably have been a very different matter.
What did Peter Mandelson resign for?
I remember lying on a mortgage application and something to do with corruptly accelerating a passport application fir a billionaire. Was there something else as well?
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.
It was deliberate and it was done twice.
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.
But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.
Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
Putting things in context
The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile
The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day
The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president
Anyway I was called for my second dose yesterday at 5 hours notice. As I was in London sorting out some urgent family issues (children!) I had to hotfoot it back to Barrow getting there just in time. Hooray! All very efficient. I was told that they had begged the vaccination centre in Grange for supplies.
It is a huge relief and big thanks go to all those involved.
I hope the momentum can be kept up for the younger age groups.
I must say I cannot be arsed with all the hoo ha about wallpaper etc.
The mystery to me is why it is taking so long to do a leak inquiry. I have done lots of these in my time and they really do not - and should not - take months. It is usually possible (if you know how to do them properly, a big "if" I grant you) to get an answer within days. Ditto re who paid for the wallpaper: this does not take months or even weeks to work out.
As for the "piling bodies high" comment, without context it is hard to judge - a comment made in exasperation is very different to one describing a deliberately chosen policy.
I yield to no-one in my dislike of this venal government and its amoral leader. But I will give it - and the NHS - credit for (a) choosing a good leader of the Vaccination Task Force, Kate Bingham (my initial criticisms of her appointment were misplaced); (b) spending the money needed to secure supplies; and (c) allowing the NHS to get on with its job, which it has done very well indeed.
Sometimes a politician has only to get one big call right or wrong to determine their reputation. Think Blair and Iraq. Too early to say whether the PM will be remembered for the vaccine programme or all his many failings. Maybe it will be both a la Lloyd George, who was an amoral priapic crook as well as a transformative PM.
Great news you got your second dose, I know it was stressing you out. Happy for you! 👍
Also kudos to you for your remarks, especially regarding your former criticisms of Kate Bingham's appointment. It is always refreshing to see people put their hands up on calls like this, well done.
Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it matters
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.
Alternatively, let’s all go to the pub and catch up with people we haven’t seen in ages! (As most of the rest of Europe is still under heavy restrictions, and things globally have never been worse as the U.K. has mostly recovered).
Indeed. Some here would do well to consider how things will look when France is battling it’s fifth or sixth wave while the Uk economy powers on.
There appears to be both a "nothing to see here, move along" defence from PB Tories and pessimists on the left saying "it won't cut through".
It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.
He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.
Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.
The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.
Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.
That it took so many paragraphs for you to explain it all shows why you are wrong!!
I've set out my argument. If you want a shorter version - lying about saying it will sink him, not saying it. I know that you are stuck in a "this is hopeless" for Labour position and on that you are correct. It won't cut through to the polls. But I think it will cut through to cut down Boris.
There are an awful lot of grieving people out there. Liar let their granny die for headlines. Doesn't get worse than that.
Most people are not blaming the government for their losses. Because they know that blame shifting is unhelpful.
My Dad probably caught COVID in hospital. But we don’t think about it because it won’t change the fact he’s not around any more so it doesn’t actually matter.
The payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering.
The statement that “the payment for Carrie’s wallpaper was effectively money laundering” is effectively libellous.
It’s true though.
Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
I suggest you go and research what the criminal act of money laundering is all about.
A deliberately obfuscatory way to avoid it looking as if Boris is taking money directly from donors.
(But which he has now been forced to pay back).
I wonder if he has paid tax on what was effectively a loan.
Oh good, you have dropped the libellous accusation of the serious criminal offence of money laundering.
No I haven’t. It’s effectively a form of money laundering, albeit a legal one. The intent was to obscure the source of funds.
Deary me.
“Effectively a form of rape but a legal one”. “Effectively a form of murder but a legal one”. Etc...
Both rape (in a conjugal context) and murder (the act of killing someone, maybe in wartime) have been legal in the past and the latter may still be.
Come down from your fake moral high ground.
Nonetheless you are wrong in describing this as money laundering. Only if the money for the refurbishment came from the proceeds of crime could its use be described as money laundering.
There may well be other concerns: eg payment in expectation of reward / failure to comply with electoral rules on donations etc. But these do not per se make what has happened money-laundering.
Comments
I thought John Rentoul was quite right with his summary.
https://twitter.com/johnrentoul/status/1386744355139072004?s=21
Labour staffers are probably searching the archives as we speak
...
But everyone already knew that. It is a big part of who he is. Indeed, the fact he is somebody who cocks a snook at the rules is a big part of his appeal.
So I don’t see how it will damage him at the moment.
The lockdown stuff is potentially more serious, but again, we know he’s careless with words. So what’s new?
What would be needed to damage him is something that goes against that persona. Say, tamely following civil service advice all the time and cocking it up as a result. That, I think, is where the risk lies for him over his actions.
I don't think that the sleaze, chumocracy and multiple hands in the till will be enough for next weeks elections, but may well tell in the end. Johnson has a history of accumulating enemies who like their revenge served cold.
In some other countries oppositions have found a way to cut through.
Otherwise we'd see Trump in his second term now.
Have a good morning.
That's why they've voted with the Government every time. Because even they know the Government is doing a good job.
Money from donors has been paid to benefit Boris and Carrie, via a deliberately obfuscatory Conservative Party transaction.
Epicurious
@epicurious
Today we announced that Epicurious is cutting out beef. It won’t appear in new Epi recipes, articles, newsletters, or on social. This isn’t a vendetta against cows or people who eat them. It’s a shift about sustainability; not anti-beef but pro-planet.
It will, and here's why. The capstone was, is, and remains the government policy to let people die en masse to save Christmas / get positive headlines. There is no longer any doubt that Liar said it - both the promised recording and now people willing to testify under oath points to it happening. What will do him isn't that he said it, but that he has been caught lying about saying it.
He could have survived this. "There is a delicate balance to strike between being ultra-cautious and killing the economy. Whilst I regret the colourful language said in the middle of the most harrowing of meetings in the midst of a national emergency, I don't regret being the person making the decisions - I almost died of Covid remember." He'd have been OK.
Instead we have total denial. Never said it, didn't happen, of course it didn't happen would be an outrage to say such an awful thing". Then its proven he did say it. But his own definition then its the worst thing that could have been said.
The rest of the scandals - and he should resign like Mandelson over the undeclared house loan - will then suddenly gain weight whereas by themselves they would have been ineffective.
Not that this is manna from heaven for Labour. All this does is removes Liar and the cabal of idiots from government and replaces them with Sunak/Truss. Labour and IDStarmer won't get a look in.
That Johnson is a veteran election winner is really his only attribute. There is no substance behind him, no ideology, no long term plan, no desire to make hard choices in the long term interest of the country, just spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave.
When he ceases to look like an election winner, his fall will be swift and total, because there is no hinterland of loyalty or ideology. The Tory party will discard him as casually and totally as Johnson does his mistresses once they have outlived their usefulness.
If I did I'd be cutting out Epi recipes from my life. Not even that big of a beef fan, I like it but prefer chicken generally, but if anyone is that perverted I want nothing to do with them.
An interesting one in the future will be, what if there was no covid vaccine?
The way to minimise road deaths would be to ban all transport and lock people in their houses 24/7
But governments don’t do that
Are they therefore responsible for all road deaths?
Boris just used a memorable phrase.
There are an awful lot of grieving people out there. Liar let their granny die for headlines. Doesn't get worse than that.
Yes there was an artificial slump but even then (narrowly) based on the LOESS chart for opinion polls on Wikipedia at no stage was there crossover between the red and blue lines. Even at the trough before the Government's work on vaccines paid the two parties essentially came to parity.
(But which he has now been forced to pay back).
I wonder if he has paid tax on what was effectively a loan.
Our death rate is TWICE that or Ireland, who are just next door and almost culturally identical to us.
While population density and ethnic mix can explain some difference, the rest is basically government policy.
And economic data is because of how we measure things differently, measuring based on output for public expenditure instead of inputs is a key variant. Plus thanks to the UK having the best vaccine rollout of its peers, we're due for the best economic recovery too.
The facts are not on your side. By 2024 the UK will likely have a better Covid outcome and better economic outcome, because the pandemic has been well managed here. Which is why the Opposition were incapable of voting against at any stage, because they had nothing better to say.
She has so many mechanical parts I’d be interested in her depreciation policy
I wonder, from whence came the money to pay back the loan? He has complained of being hard up, and I don't think, for example, that we've heard of a nanny being appointed.
“Effectively a form of rape but a legal one”.
“Effectively a form of murder but a legal one”.
Etc...
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker?gclid=Cj0KCQjwyZmEBhCpARIsALIzmnL_MFR8nQcWKdnVAl_zXfGhEIp9DcPiLlC_Rau2PCP0prpz540lODUaAuzQEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
Or we would be on a par with the Netherlands, whereas in reality we have a much higher death rate.
On economics you seem to be claiming that our figures cannot be trusted...
It is a huge relief and big thanks go to all those involved.
I hope the momentum can be kept up for the younger age groups.
I must say I cannot be arsed with all the hoo ha about wallpaper etc.
The mystery to me is why it is taking so long to do a leak inquiry. I have done lots of these in my time and they really do not - and should not - take months. It is usually possible (if you know how to do them properly, a big "if" I grant you) to get an answer within days. Ditto re who paid for the wallpaper: this does not take months or even weeks to work out.
As for the "piling bodies high" comment, without context it is hard to judge - a comment made in exasperation is very different to one describing a deliberately chosen policy.
I yield to no-one in my dislike of this venal government and its amoral leader. But I will give it - and the NHS - credit for (a) choosing a good leader of the Vaccination Task Force, Kate Bingham (my initial criticisms of her appointment were misplaced); (b) spending the money needed to secure supplies; and (c) allowing the NHS to get on with its job, which it has done very well indeed.
Sometimes a politician has only to get one big call right or wrong to determine their reputation. Think Blair and Iraq. Too early to say whether the PM will be remembered for the vaccine programme or all his many failings. Maybe it will be both a la Lloyd George, who was an amoral priapic crook as well as a transformative PM.
Plus also a chance for ambitious rivals to topple Martin. Two ex-Ministers for Agriculture are nursing grievances.
And then, culturally, FF, the party of De Valera, support a FG Taoiseach?
They might get lucky with the timing of the leak investigation into Varadker, and even have a point of principle to hang all their other grievances onto.
On economics I'm saying that our figures can't be compared to other nations figures during a lockdown. Our figures are more accurate, other countries are under-measuring the impact of disruption by only measuring inputs instead of outputs.
Over the long term this will wash out and the UK will rebound much higher and faster, both because of a better managed pandemic and because the disruption was measured properly here.
Come down from your fake moral high ground.
But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.
Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
However, there are no resignation events in his government...
The man's a parasite.
the majority who find such a remark always wicked and outrageous
a small minority who can say it and mean it (they are not very nice people)
a much larger minority, of whom Boris is one, who are completely capable of saying such a thing as rhetoric, exaggeration, attention seeking or ways of finding a final position on a difficult question.
A number of rap artists, and indeed artists generally, belong to the third group. The DM by and large doesn't.
Group two doesn't understand either of the other groups. Group one thinks that all the others are in group two. Group three have become accustomed by long sometimes bitter experience to the ways of group one.
Boris is an incontinent member of group three. Something in his incontinence will bring him down, but not, I suspect this one.
I don't see this deflecting many people away from voting Tory to vote for another party. But it may be enough to keep Tories at home and strengthen turnout for other parties. We've already seen the woeful ScotCons drop from 2nd to 3rd in the polls up here and we're not done yet.
Also kudos to you for your remarks, especially regarding your former criticisms of Kate Bingham's appointment. It is always refreshing to see people put their hands up on calls like this, well done.
(As most of the rest of Europe is still under heavy restrictions, and things globally have never been worse as the U.K. has mostly recovered).
The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile
The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day
The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president
https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/la-tribune-d-anciens-militaires-contre-le-delitement-de-la-france-enflamme-le-debat-politique-20210426
I think Ill stick with the wallpaper
I remember lying on a mortgage application and something to do with corruptly accelerating a passport application fir a billionaire. Was there something else as well?
The Duke of York has gone into business with a former Coutts banker who quit in disgrace over allegations of sexual harassment.
Prince Andrew has set up a company with Harry Keogh, who left the Queen’s bank in March 2018 after he was accused of touching a female colleague inappropriately and boasting about his sexual exploits.
The prince has previously faced questions over his close links to Jeffrey Epstein, the late billionaire financier accused of numerous sexual offences.
The new venture, which The Times understands will be a vehicle for Andrew’s family investments, is named Lincelles after the 18th-century battle against the French in which the British were commanded by the Duke of York.
It has been structured as an unlimited company, which means that it is not required to file accounts with Companies House and can avoid disclosing its profits or income. The duke controls 75 per cent of the business through the Urramoor Trust, with Keogh listed as a fellow controller.
A source close to Prince Andrew defended Keogh yesterday as a “friend and adviser to the duke”. The source described him as “the duke’s private banker for some 20 years”.
At Coutts he was accused of touching a woman’s groin while demonstrating the site of an injury. His behaviour was said to be so toxic that some female staff refused to work with him. The private bank carried out an investigation in 2015 and the chief executive recommended he leave, according to The Wall Street Journal. It was decided that he should stay, but he was disciplined and eventually resigned in March 2018.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-andrew-set-up-firm-with-disgraced-coutts-financier-harry-keogh-xm6l0z20t
I wonder what attracts Prince Andrew to people who treat women so badly?
And layering your wallpaper is a definite no no.
I have to say I think you are right about the 'bodies' comment. Needs to be seen in context. Was it raging frustration? Desperately poor taste humour?
My Dad probably caught COVID in hospital. But we don’t think about it because it won’t change the fact he’s not around any more so it doesn’t actually matter.
Like Colleville-sur-Mer it really does hit you just how many people died in the two world wars.
There may well be other concerns: eg payment in expectation of reward / failure to comply with electoral rules on donations etc. But these do not per se make what has happened money-laundering.