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Why I am amongst those sceptical about Tory chances in Hartlepool – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1386445305361674240

    "The Prime Minister knowingly killed thousands of his own people and he must now be removed from office."
  • To be honest the best rebrand in years was The RBS Group becoming The Natwest Group.

    RBS triggers people in a way that Natwest doesn't.

    For example those poor people at RBS Debt Management Operations in Brindley Place in Birmingham used to get frightful abuse from customers they were chasing up for non payment/default of current accounts/overdrafts/loans/mortgages/credit cards, the customers used to tell them 'We bailed you out, so how about doing the same for us?'

    That abuse has cratered since they became the Natwest Group.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309
    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ladbrokes: 3/1 for Boris Johnson to be replaced as PM this year. https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1386587610970198016/photo/1

    My Boris to leave April 2021-June 2021 is looking a lot less red than when I placed it. I may cash out now and eat the much smaller loss.
    Interestingly the odds on Truss as next PM have come in considerably, whereas those on Truss as next Tory leader haven't moved at all.
    Desperate lack of talent if that donkey is in the mix.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    edited April 2021
    Incidentally, there are other ways to name things stupidly.

    Xbox are a master of this. This* called their second console the Xbox 360. And the third the Xbox One.

    The fourth is the Xbox Series X (and a lesser version, the Series S). Not to be confused with the Xbox One S. Or the Xbox One X.

    Playstation, meanwhile, are very boring, and clear, just using numbers.

    [Although the recent revelations over the clock fiasco is loathsome].

    Edited extra bit: *they
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ladbrokes: 3/1 for Boris Johnson to be replaced as PM this year. https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1386587610970198016/photo/1

    My Boris to leave April 2021-June 2021 is looking a lot less red than when I placed it. I may cash out now and eat the much smaller loss.
    Interestingly the odds on Truss as next PM have come in considerably, whereas those on Truss as next Tory leader haven't moved at all.
    Sadly the lay prices are some way from the back prices as it’s a slow market.

    There’s almost certainly an arb buried somewhere in the Betfair markets for next PM, next Con leader and result of the next election, if one has enough time to analyse them carefully.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    IanB2 said:

    mickydroy said:

    I think this Hartlepool election couldn't come at a better time for the Tories, I backed them some weeks ago to win this, but I do believe this is a high water mark for them, the only way is down from here, whether they can hold on to enough support at the next GE is another matter, again I think they will, just. This is when it starts getting interesting, the volatile nature of the electorate, I am sure means they are in for a dramatic collapse of support, some of the blue supporters on here are in for a nasty shock, if they think the tories will rule for another twenty years, make the most of these coming elections, time is ticking

    The immediate aftermath of the unlocking will see a mini spending boom and good moods as people are allowed to travel and eat inside restaurants again. After that, all of the news is likely to be bad.
    Do you mean bad economic news?

    I cant see that happening for 5 years at least.

    We will have a boom.
    100% agreed.

    We need and will have a Roaring Twenties.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,291
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,158
    edited April 2021
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "About half a million more people in England are being invited to book their Covid-19 jab from Monday, as the vaccine rollout opens to 44-year-olds. Two-thirds of the previous age group - 45 to 49-year-olds - have received their first dose. The NHS said it would set out when 40 to 43-year-olds would be able to book appointments "in the coming days", as supply allows."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56880376

    Starting to ramp up the prep for a shift back from first doses?

    Half a million is one day.
    The figures required for 2nd doses in 77 days are

    358487 till the 7th May
    Then
    358440 till the 12th June
    Then
    it drops to 153823 by the 17th June.

    We've averaged 102,847 1st jabs / day and 332,107 2nds in April so far
    In contrast March was 349,117 first doses and 132,404 2nds/day

    So the focus broadly continues on 2nd doses till 12th June unless our supply increases dramatically.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    People (including me TBF) who have spent years not believing a word Dominic Cummings says are now eagerly hanging on every word Dominic Cummings says. And visa versa, those who defended him until he left in December are now portraying him as a mad liar.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
    He's always wriggled out of political trouble before. Like a greased pig.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,948
    Ooh yes Boris out please. Any time before Sep will do me fine. And I note my bet has just gone green on bf.

    I said the other day that BoJo would be caught out but had no idea how. Not saying THIS IS IT but it's chip, chip, chip.

    They certainly don't need any further revelations around sleaze. I'm sure no one in CCHQ is cacking themselves in this regard.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons. I rather suspect she is starting to realise that the calls for her to be prosecuted and stripped of her honour, coming from MPs and members of the Lords, might actually come to something.
    How would she apologise without affecting the live case?

    (No idea how that relates to legal restrictions.)
    It's a fair point that acting earlier might have been seen as affecting the case. But the outcome of the case was never really in doubt, and hanging on to all her positions for so long was very clearly in her self interest.

    The BBC radio documentary on the Post Office Scandal is well worth a listen. It was clear that Vennells put huge pressure on her team to give her the answers she wanted (emails show she said things like "I need to be able to say that the system data is reliable"), rather than making any genuine attempt to investigate, so it was very difficult for anyone lower down in the organisation to step up and admit the source and scale of the problem. For that alone, she carries a lot of responsibilty.
    It does sound like that Vennells didn't attempt to process an even handed investigation here. Mind you, this is not dissimilar to the way the Police work. They get someone in the frame, find (or manufacture) evidence to support their view and suppress any contradictory evidence. The CPS then ignore the rights and wrongs are just concerend with the chances of conviction.
    She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong.
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    DougSeal said:

    People (including me TBF) who have spent years not believing a word Dominic Cummings says are now eagerly hanging on every word Dominic Cummings says. And visa versa, those who defended him until he left in December are now portraying him as a mad liar.

    tbf it is the evidence he is revealing that is most pertinent.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    .

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
    In just under two years Johnson has:
    1. Ended May's Article 50 quagmire.
    2. Got Brexit Done.
    3. Got a trade deal with Europe.
    4. Installed Liz Truss and got trade deals with many other nations.
    5. Installed Rishi Sunak and got furlough to get us through the economic crisis.
    6. Led the country through a global pandemic
    7. Got a world beating vaccine program.
    8. Britain is the first major economy in the west to come out of the pandemic as a result.
    9. And according to Leon he saved football.
    I know that gnashes your teeth but if that's incompetence long may it continue.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Cummings ability to get inside people’s heads is possibly his main talent. Like late-career Shane Warne, he doesn’t actually need to pull any tricks other than convincing people that he might be able to https://twitter.com/davies_will/status/1386399568410005507/photo/1
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    Ooh, a rare chance to agree with PB's warrior on woke!
    PB is now called PLTCLBTTNG

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,158
    kinabalu said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ladbrokes: 3/1 for Boris Johnson to be replaced as PM this year. https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1386587610970198016/photo/1

    My Boris to leave April 2021-June 2021 is looking a lot less red than when I placed it. I may cash out now and eat the much smaller loss.
    Conversely, the unrealized profit on my long at 1.8 on 'Johnson to still be PM on 1st July 2022' is suddenly just one half of what it was.
    I might hold my nerve or I might cover back my stake. Not sure.
    Top up.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,541

    .

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
    In just under two years Johnson has:
    1. Ended May's Article 50 quagmire.
    2. Got Brexit Done.
    3. Got a trade deal with Europe.
    4. Installed Liz Truss and got trade deals with many other nations.
    5. Installed Rishi Sunak and got furlough to get us through the economic crisis.
    6. Led the country through a global pandemic
    7. Got a world beating vaccine program.
    8. Britain is the first major economy in the west to come out of the pandemic as a result.
    9. And according to Leon he saved football.
    I know that gnashes your teeth but if that's incompetence long may it continue.
    If you want a 10th for a top 10 - he also got Number 10 revamped, not at the public's expense.....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809
    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    Is that picture Hartlepool? I have never been there but must admit that is not at all how I imagined it from the descriptions over the years.

    From memory it's their Maritime museum which is now (due to austerity cost cutting but a lot of luck) the Nation Museum of the Royal Navy - Hartlepool https://www.nmrn.org.uk/our-museums/national-museum-royal-navy-hartlepool

    That and the Headland is nice but don't look in the opposite direction and even fans of 1960s brutalist architecture won't like the town centre.
    It's the RN Museum. I once gave a presentation on Sea Harrier ops there. All ribald yarns of runs ashore in exotic ports were strictly haram so the audience had to make do with the mostly true story of how we once got 4 simulated AIM-120 kills against Marham wing Tornados in under 2 seconds.

    What you can't see in the picture is the other side of it. Across the street there is a reeking Burger King full of smacked up chavs and an Asda where benzoed out teenage mothers with Croydon facelifts push their little shit machines around in prams.
    Still, I have a very soft spot for the maritime museum with its solid teak frigate Trincomalee. And the Headland gun battery (partly for the views and partly for the battle with the High Seas Fleet in WW1).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809

    .

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
    In just under two years Johnson has:
    1. Ended May's Article 50 quagmire.
    2. Got Brexit Done.
    3. Got a trade deal with Europe.
    4. Installed Liz Truss and got trade deals with many other nations.
    5. Installed Rishi Sunak and got furlough to get us through the economic crisis.
    6. Led the country through a global pandemic
    7. Got a world beating vaccine program.
    8. Britain is the first major economy in the west to come out of the pandemic as a result.
    9. And according to Leon he saved football.
    I know that gnashes your teeth but if that's incompetence long may it continue.
    6 not exactly finished ...ergo 8 not complete ...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414

    .

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
    In just under two years Johnson has:
    1. Ended May's Article 50 quagmire.
    2. Got Brexit Done.
    3. Got a trade deal with Europe.
    4. Installed Liz Truss and got trade deals with many other nations.
    5. Installed Rishi Sunak and got furlough to get us through the economic crisis.
    6. Led the country through a global pandemic
    7. Got a world beating vaccine program.
    8. Britain is the first major economy in the west to come out of the pandemic as a result.
    9. And according to Leon he saved football.
    I know that gnashes your teeth but if that's incompetence long may it continue.
    I've just a teensy-teensy feeling that some of those might not glitter quite as brightly before too long.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    edited April 2021
    Does anyone know why the vaccines they are now releasing in just single years (i.e. 44 today) please?

    I'm 43y 8m old and had been eagerly anticipating the 40-44 age group opening up. To find now I am 4 months too young is somewhat frustrating to say the least!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    ‘dangerous political vacuum’ in Northern Ireland which could "fall over" warn Peter Hain, Chris Patten, Hugh Orde, Peter Mandelson and others in letter to Johnson https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/26/boris-johnson-is-warned-of-dangerous-political-vacuum-in-northern-ireland

    “Strong sense within loyalists and unionists that no one is listening to them + nobody in authority in Whitehall been honest with them about the consequences of Brexit.
    The most immediate step is therefore for the government, at the highest level, to be seen to take an interest."
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    IanB2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    People (including me TBF) who have spent years not believing a word Dominic Cummings says are now eagerly hanging on every word Dominic Cummings says. And visa versa, those who defended him until he left in December are now portraying him as a mad liar.

    tbf it is the evidence he is revealing that is most pertinent.
    Either it’s true, and Johnson is a sociopath, or it’s not, and he engaged a fantasist as his main adviser.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons. I rather suspect she is starting to realise that the calls for her to be prosecuted and stripped of her honour, coming from MPs and members of the Lords, might actually come to something.
    How would she apologise without affecting the live case?

    (No idea how that relates to legal restrictions.)
    It's a fair point that acting earlier might have been seen as affecting the case. But the outcome of the case was never really in doubt, and hanging on to all her positions for so long was very clearly in her self interest.

    The BBC radio documentary on the Post Office Scandal is well worth a listen. It was clear that Vennells put huge pressure on her team to give her the answers she wanted (emails show she said things like "I need to be able to say that the system data is reliable"), rather than making any genuine attempt to investigate, so it was very difficult for anyone lower down in the organisation to step up and admit the source and scale of the problem. For that alone, she carries a lot of responsibilty.
    It does sound like that Vennells didn't attempt to process an even handed investigation here. Mind you, this is not dissimilar to the way the Police work. They get someone in the frame, find (or manufacture) evidence to support their view and suppress any contradictory evidence. The CPS then ignore the rights and wrongs are just concerend with the chances of conviction.
    She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong.
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable.
    I had moved on from the Group before the story really broke, but I do remember that Horizon had been problematic from the start, and the fact that the system was full of bugs and faults (not specifically in relation to subpostmasters) was common canteen gossip from the start. Indeed the first deployment - which I was contemporary with - was a complete disaster and had to be abandoned. They appear to have assumed that the second rollout would have resolved all of the problems with the first.

    The culture wouldn't have been conducive to passing bad news upwards, and I don't know whether or not there were attempts at whistleblowing - one of the useful things an inquiry might be able to uncover. An additional factor was that the supplier Fujitsu was also passing false reassurance to the PO, and the one thing missing from the news coverage is Fujitsu's capability - if it does ever come to legal action, there'll also be Fujitsu people in the dock for sure.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464


    "She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable."

    Looks to me like the CPS are also seriously at fault here.....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,948
    AlistairM said:

    Does anyone know why the vaccines they are now releasing in just single years (i.e. 44 today) please?

    I'm 43y 8m old and had been eagerly anticipating the 40-44 age group opening up. To find now I am 4 months too young is somewhat frustrating to say the least!

    Keep plugging yourself into the website and that way as soon as it opens up to you you will know.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,158
    edited April 2021
    https://twitter.com/MonicaGandhi9/status/1386122845294456836

    "& only 0.00009% deaths related to COVID" amongst the vaccinated.

    USA 2019;
    Death rate: 869.7 deaths per 100,000 population

    Death rate on any particular day 2.38 deaths per 100,000 population

    or 0.00238%
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    Ooh, a rare chance to agree with PB's warrior on woke!
    PB is now called PLTCLBTTNG

    As others have said, my big problem with it is that it is very 2010.

    I didn't really understand Quilter as a rebrand for Old Mutual (or rather, part of Old Mutual), but it does feel a bit more 2018.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    .

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
    In just under two years Johnson has:
    1. Ended May's Article 50 quagmire.
    2. Got Brexit Done.
    3. Got a trade deal with Europe.
    4. Installed Liz Truss and got trade deals with many other nations.
    5. Installed Rishi Sunak and got furlough to get us through the economic crisis.
    6. Led the country through a global pandemic
    7. Got a world beating vaccine program.
    8. Britain is the first major economy in the west to come out of the pandemic as a result.
    9. And according to Leon he saved football.
    I know that gnashes your teeth but if that's incompetence long may it continue.
    All kind of true - both sides of the equation. But just as Churchill eventually met with election 1945 (and Boris is no Churchill) when Boris's luck runs out it will all turn.

    The question is not Will the wheels come off? Will there be disasters? The answer is yes of course. The interesting question is: When and How (it won't be this time and this issue); secondly, can Boris, as he would love, stop being PM in his way with his timing and before events force him. It is that achievement which would be profoundly unusual and I am sure he wants. But not until at least well after the next election - which IMHO could easily be 2022/3.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    I see that ESL has now become the latest symptom of those suffering from Boris Derangement Syndrome.

    Meanwhile the lack of border control from travel to Italy in February 2020 to travel to India in April 2021 goes unmentioned.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414



    "She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable."

    Looks to me like the CPS are also seriously at fault here.....

    Hasn't there been a whisper that they are waiting for cases against the Sub PO's to be concluded? Which, AIUI, they haven't been, yet.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,366

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    Looks like another Consignia to me.
    Kinda, I understand why they need a name change, as no one wants a standard life, they want an awesome fantastic life, but this is taking the piss.
    Would you put your savings with a company called 'fantastic life'? Sounds like some sort of dodgy diet supplement to me.
    Premier Life works for me.
    Yes, they could partner with Premier Inns to prove their high quality. :)
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,291

    .

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
    In just under two years Johnson has:
    1. Ended May's Article 50 quagmire.
    2. Got Brexit Done.
    3. Got a trade deal with Europe.
    4. Installed Liz Truss and got trade deals with many other nations.
    5. Installed Rishi Sunak and got furlough to get us through the economic crisis.
    6. Led the country through a global pandemic
    7. Got a world beating vaccine program.
    8. Britain is the first major economy in the west to come out of the pandemic as a result.
    9. And according to Leon he saved football.
    I know that gnashes your teeth but if that's incompetence long may it continue.
    Oh dear, I know I shouldn't really respond to you Philip, but a gullible silly lad like yourself will believe what you want to.

    Take it from someone who has trained and advised leading company executives on leadership for two decades: Boris Johnson is an incompetent. The only thing he is really competent at which is quite common among some lazy ex-public schoolboys is fooling fools like you. On that I have to hand it to him. Carry on being fooled. It really is quite amusing.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Like David Herdson on Saturday I am far from convinced that the Tories can take the seat and would rate both LAB and CON chances at about 50%

    If you think the Conservatives have a 50% chance of winning then you are very convinced they can in but are not convinced they will win.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,948
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons. I rather suspect she is starting to realise that the calls for her to be prosecuted and stripped of her honour, coming from MPs and members of the Lords, might actually come to something.
    How would she apologise without affecting the live case?

    (No idea how that relates to legal restrictions.)
    It's a fair point that acting earlier might have been seen as affecting the case. But the outcome of the case was never really in doubt, and hanging on to all her positions for so long was very clearly in her self interest.

    The BBC radio documentary on the Post Office Scandal is well worth a listen. It was clear that Vennells put huge pressure on her team to give her the answers she wanted (emails show she said things like "I need to be able to say that the system data is reliable"), rather than making any genuine attempt to investigate, so it was very difficult for anyone lower down in the organisation to step up and admit the source and scale of the problem. For that alone, she carries a lot of responsibilty.
    It does sound like that Vennells didn't attempt to process an even handed investigation here. Mind you, this is not dissimilar to the way the Police work. They get someone in the frame, find (or manufacture) evidence to support their view and suppress any contradictory evidence. The CPS then ignore the rights and wrongs are just concerend with the chances of conviction.
    She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong.
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable.
    I had moved on from the Group before the story really broke, but I do remember that Horizon had been problematic from the start, and the fact that the system was full of bugs and faults (not specifically in relation to subpostmasters) was common canteen gossip from the start. Indeed the first deployment - which I was contemporary with - was a complete disaster and had to be abandoned. They appear to have assumed that the second rollout would have resolved all of the problems with the first.

    The culture wouldn't have been conducive to passing bad news upwards, and I don't know whether or not there were attempts at whistleblowing - one of the useful things an inquiry might be able to uncover. An additional factor was that the supplier Fujitsu was also passing false reassurance to the PO, and the one thing missing from the news coverage is Fujitsu's capability - if it does ever come to legal action, there'll also be Fujitsu people in the dock for sure.
    I am midway through the R4 podcast on it. Amazing journalism - over 10 years he investigated this. I couldn't bring myself to listen to it before the verdict was given because it would have been too frustrating.

    And yes, Vennells should be sanctioned. She may appear a decent type but if so she was either coerced (passively I don't think the heavies came round) or suspended her decency for what was a shocking episode in her life which, I hope, will haunt her for the rest of her days.

    And well done James Arbuthnot also. Top man. Plus that Alan bloke. Plus Kay someone. Plus them all really, who didn't give up.

    Can't wait to hear the rest of the series.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    eek said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    Ernst & Young were trying to move away from being a boring auditor into consultancy, Liverpool Victoria likewise from being mutual life assurance firm into more general insurance...

    in both cases there were reasonable reasons for doing so and in the case of EY probably some embarrassing screw ups.
    I used to work for Ernst & Young. I was there when it happened.

    They had a brand of being a big accountancy then, and they have a brand of being a big accountancy now - even though they try to describe themselves as a "professional services firm".
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,948
    edited April 2021



    "She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable."

    Looks to me like the CPS are also seriously at fault here.....

    Plus as mentioned here the other day, Vince Cable trotted out the "but no one told me" line when asked about it on Friday's PM. The SoS. Is this now going to be a defence for every SoS for every issue? What an absolute c**t and he should be made to face the music as much as Vennells does. Perhaps it is all still coming for them.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    I recall Norwich Union changed to Aviva, and in their advertising campaign was based around changing to what you'd always wanted to be. Which meant that they'd always wanted to be a completely anodyne, pointless made-up name, rather than a company with a proud historic, geographically based legacy. But hey, maybe that we the point...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Rapid action from the EU on India. A meeting will take place on the 8th of May.
    image

    To be fair a 10 day delay is rapid for them...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    Has to be a delayed April Fool.
    ts rthr stpd nd wll cm bck t bt thm n th bm
  • algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    Ooh, a rare chance to agree with PB's warrior on woke!
    PB is now called PLTCLBTTNG

    As others have said, my big problem with it is that it is very 2010.

    I didn't really understand Quilter as a rebrand for Old Mutual (or rather, part of Old Mutual), but it does feel a bit more 2018.
    As with Standard Life, OLD Mutual has some negative connotations to potential and existing customers, so they said let us come up with a new name that reassures people, blanket wasn't an option so they went for the maker of blankets and quilts.

    (I believe the name change was driven as much by the desire for a single unified platform for the various OM companies.)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    .

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
    In just under two years Johnson has:
    1. Ended May's Article 50 quagmire.
    2. Got Brexit Done.
    3. Got a trade deal with Europe.
    4. Installed Liz Truss and got trade deals with many other nations.
    5. Installed Rishi Sunak and got furlough to get us through the economic crisis.
    6. Led the country through a global pandemic
    7. Got a world beating vaccine program.
    8. Britain is the first major economy in the west to come out of the pandemic as a result.
    9. And according to Leon he saved football.
    I know that gnashes your teeth but if that's incompetence long may it continue.
    Oh dear, I know I shouldn't really respond to you Philip, but a gullible silly lad like yourself will believe what you want to.

    Take it from someone who has trained and advised leading company executives on leadership for two decades: Boris Johnson is an incompetent. The only thing he is really competent at which is quite common among some lazy ex-public schoolboys is fooling fools like you. On that I have to hand it to him. Carry on being fooled. It really is quite amusing.
    Translation: I know you're right, but it pains me to admit it even to myself, because I hate the fact he defeated me on Brexit. So rather than try and argue the facts I'll just lash out with petty insults, because even I know post-vaccines that the facts are not on my side. Wibble wibble.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    COVID-19 cases in India this week:

    18 April: 275,063 (record)
    19 April: 257,003
    20 April: 294,365 (record)
    21 April: 315,735 (record)
    22 April: 332,518 (record)
    23 April: 345,281 (record)
    24 April: 348,979 (record)
    25 April: 354,653 (record)

    Clutching at straws... but the rate of increase appears to be slowing
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    Ooh, a rare chance to agree with PB's warrior on woke!
    PB is now called PLTCLBTTNG

    As others have said, my big problem with it is that it is very 2010.

    I didn't really understand Quilter as a rebrand for Old Mutual (or rather, part of Old Mutual), but it does feel a bit more 2018.
    To me changes of name are always a 'sell' signal; just as 'relaunch' means we have no idea what to do about the fact we are going bust/have no idea how to win an election.

    Look at the longevity of Brands like 'Oxford University' 'Roman Catholic' 'Islam'. Why are they not 'EduOx' 'Popesareuz' 'ShariaNumberOne!'

  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,722

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    I recall Norwich Union changed to Aviva, and in their advertising campaign was based around changing to what you'd always wanted to be. Which meant that they'd always wanted to be a completely anodyne, pointless made-up name, rather than a company with a proud historic, geographically based legacy. But hey, maybe that we the point...
    It is a form of Newspeak(1984)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    kinabalu said:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1386445305361674240

    "The Prime Minister knowingly killed thousands of his own people and he must now be removed from office."

    No - he had to make awful choices between the current threat to life - the virus, and the less immediate, but no less significant threat to life of a tanking economy and all that follows.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    Scott_xP said:

    ‘dangerous political vacuum’ in Northern Ireland which could "fall over" warn Peter Hain, Chris Patten, Hugh Orde, Peter Mandelson and others in letter to Johnson https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/26/boris-johnson-is-warned-of-dangerous-political-vacuum-in-northern-ireland

    “Strong sense within loyalists and unionists that no one is listening to them + nobody in authority in Whitehall been honest with them about the consequences of Brexit.
    The most immediate step is therefore for the government, at the highest level, to be seen to take an interest."

    I take it they've written an equally strong letter to the European Union as well?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    The Prime Minister has put more effort into personally briefing against a former advisor, than he has to addressing tensions in Northern Ireland.

    This vacuum of leadership has consequences.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/26/boris-johnson-is-warned-of-dangerous-political-vacuum-in-northern-ireland?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,301



    "She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable."

    Looks to me like the CPS are also seriously at fault here.....

    The CPS were never involved: due to a quirk of history the Post Office has it’s own prosecuting team of lawyers & these were all private prosecutions carried out by the PO itself.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    Ooh, a rare chance to agree with PB's warrior on woke!
    PB is now called PLTCLBTTNG

    As others have said, my big problem with it is that it is very 2010.

    I didn't really understand Quilter as a rebrand for Old Mutual (or rather, part of Old Mutual), but it does feel a bit more 2018.
    I think it's mainly swish marketing consultants fooling gullible executives who want to be seen to do something and change something. It's an easy substitute for real action.

    Golden Syrup has had exactly the same brand and packaging since 1885. It hasn't done them any harm.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    IanB2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    People (including me TBF) who have spent years not believing a word Dominic Cummings says are now eagerly hanging on every word Dominic Cummings says. And visa versa, those who defended him until he left in December are now portraying him as a mad liar.

    tbf it is the evidence he is revealing that is most pertinent.
    No - its the evidence that predisposed people want to believe is true... Confirmation bias 101.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons. I rather suspect she is starting to realise that the calls for her to be prosecuted and stripped of her honour, coming from MPs and members of the Lords, might actually come to something.
    How would she apologise without affecting the live case?

    (No idea how that relates to legal restrictions.)
    It's a fair point that acting earlier might have been seen as affecting the case. But the outcome of the case was never really in doubt, and hanging on to all her positions for so long was very clearly in her self interest.

    The BBC radio documentary on the Post Office Scandal is well worth a listen. It was clear that Vennells put huge pressure on her team to give her the answers she wanted (emails show she said things like "I need to be able to say that the system data is reliable"), rather than making any genuine attempt to investigate, so it was very difficult for anyone lower down in the organisation to step up and admit the source and scale of the problem. For that alone, she carries a lot of responsibilty.
    It does sound like that Vennells didn't attempt to process an even handed investigation here. Mind you, this is not dissimilar to the way the Police work. They get someone in the frame, find (or manufacture) evidence to support their view and suppress any contradictory evidence. The CPS then ignore the rights and wrongs are just concerend with the chances of conviction.
    She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong.
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable.
    I had moved on from the Group before the story really broke, but I do remember that Horizon had been problematic from the start, and the fact that the system was full of bugs and faults (not specifically in relation to subpostmasters) was common canteen gossip from the start. Indeed the first deployment - which I was contemporary with - was a complete disaster and had to be abandoned. They appear to have assumed that the second rollout would have resolved all of the problems with the first.

    The culture wouldn't have been conducive to passing bad news upwards, and I don't know whether or not there were attempts at whistleblowing - one of the useful things an inquiry might be able to uncover. An additional factor was that the supplier Fujitsu was also passing false reassurance to the PO, and the one thing missing from the news coverage is Fujitsu's capability - if it does ever come to legal action, there'll also be Fujitsu people in the dock for sure.
    I am midway through the R4 podcast on it. Amazing journalism - over 10 years he investigated this. I couldn't bring myself to listen to it before the verdict was given because it would have been too frustrating.

    And yes, Vennells should be sanctioned. She may appear a decent type but if so she was either coerced (passively I don't think the heavies came round) or suspended her decency for what was a shocking episode in her life which, I hope, will haunt her for the rest of her days.

    And well done James Arbuthnot also. Top man. Plus that Alan bloke. Plus Kay someone. Plus them all really, who didn't give up.

    Can't wait to hear the rest of the series.
    Artbuthnot does deserve credit, despite having been a useless lazy absentee twat back when he was my constituency MP.

    No-one will have set out to arrive at the dreadful outcome, but it looks pretty clear that those at the top were more interested, and more adept (in the short term at least) at protecting their careers than in getting to the bottom of what was a growing mystery. As any politician knows, there are times when you have to step up and front the bad news.

    The frightening general point is how long - and how much effort - it takes for the wronged little guy to eventually win through.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Charles said:

    COVID-19 cases in India this week:

    18 April: 275,063 (record)
    19 April: 257,003
    20 April: 294,365 (record)
    21 April: 315,735 (record)
    22 April: 332,518 (record)
    23 April: 345,281 (record)
    24 April: 348,979 (record)
    25 April: 354,653 (record)

    Clutching at straws... but the rate of increase appears to be slowing
    More likely limited tested capabilities.

    Adding in India's positivity rate from the same period:

    18 April: 275,063 (record) 15.5% (record)
    19 April: 257,003 16.2% (record)
    20 April: 294,365 (record) 17.1% (record)
    21 April: 315,735 (record) 17.8% (record)
    22 April: 332,518 (record)
    23 April: 345,281 (record)
    24 April: 348,979 (record)
    25 April: 354,653 (record)

    No new data past 21 April for positivity rate yet but that's escalating fast.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,777
    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/MonicaGandhi9/status/1386122845294456836

    "& only 0.00009% deaths related to COVID" amongst the vaccinated.

    USA 2019;
    Death rate: 869.7 deaths per 100,000 population

    Death rate on any particular day 2.38 deaths per 100,000 population

    or 0.00238%

    That data is incredible. A view into where we will be in 6 weeks. 99.9997% recorded efficacy against hospitalisation.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    edited April 2021
    Re paying vast amounts of money for stupid names changes.

    Has this ever been beaten:

    Ask someone to name their least favourite words. The chances are that "Monday" will come somewhere on the list.

    Not so for the consultancy arm of PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), which has decided to rename itself after the most maligned day of the week in a $110 million (€116 million) rebranding.

    The consultancy is separating from the accountancy firm through a share offering expected this summer. It said yesterday it would, thereafter, be known as Monday.

    For many, the word Monday suggests alarm clocks and curtailed fun just as surely as dentist connotes pain.

    The feeling has been expressed in pop songs such as Manic Monday, by the Bangles, and I Don't Like Mondays, by the Boomtown Rats.

    To PwC Consulting, however, Monday inspires images of "fresh thinking, doughnuts, hot coffee".

    Monday, it reckons, galvanises people to "wake up early" and "expect chemistry".

    In one of the slogans designed to gee up staff and clients about the name change, the company says: "Sharpen your pencil, iron your crispy white shirts, set the alarm clock, relish the challenge, listen, be fulfilled, make an impact, take a risk."

    Mr Greg Brenneman, chief executive of PwC Consulting, said Monday benefits from being "a real word, concise, recognisable, global".


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/pwc-consulting-to-be-monday-in-110m-rebranding-1.1060060#:~:text=Not so for the consultancy,share offering expected this summer.

    I think it lasted about a month.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977

    No - its the evidence that predisposed people want to believe is true... Confirmation bias 101.

    No

    The evidence confirms what everybody, including the BoZo fanbois, know to be true.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    I recall Norwich Union changed to Aviva, and in their advertising campaign was based around changing to what you'd always wanted to be. Which meant that they'd always wanted to be a completely anodyne, pointless made-up name, rather than a company with a proud historic, geographically based legacy. But hey, maybe that we the point...
    I think people rather like companies with a grounded sense of place and history. The corporate donkeys have got it wrong.

    It's another form of Anywhere Globalism to change it all to anodyne crap.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,366
    kinabalu said:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1386445305361674240

    "The Prime Minister knowingly killed thousands of his own people and he must now be removed from office."

    Further evidence of the realignment of British politics, when Owen Jones, yes Owen Jones, is tweeting a headline from the Daily Mail, yes the Daily Mail, to call for the head of the PM.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    AlistairM said:

    Does anyone know why the vaccines they are now releasing in just single years (i.e. 44 today) please?

    I'm 43y 8m old and had been eagerly anticipating the 40-44 age group opening up. To find now I am 4 months too young is somewhat frustrating to say the least!

    Probably because we are only doing around 100K to 150 K 1st doses a day.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    edited April 2021
    AlistairM said:

    Does anyone know why the vaccines they are now releasing in just single years (i.e. 44 today) please?

    I'm 43y 8m old and had been eagerly anticipating the 40-44 age group opening up. To find now I am 4 months too young is somewhat frustrating to say the least!

    Website issues - it's probably easier to do it day by day over this week rather than watching it all fall over as it did when the 45-49 group all tried to get booked in at the same minute.

    Have you tried the website though? It may let you book
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809

    Re paying vast amounts of money for stupid names changes.

    Has this ever been beaten:

    Ask someone to name their least favourite words. The chances are that "Monday" will come somewhere on the list.

    Not so for the consultancy arm of PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), which has decided to rename itself after the most maligned day of the week in a $110 million (€116 million) rebranding.

    The consultancy is separating from the accountancy firm through a share offering expected this summer. It said yesterday it would, thereafter, be known as Monday.

    For many, the word Monday suggests alarm clocks and curtailed fun just as surely as dentist connotes pain.

    The feeling has been expressed in pop songs such as Manic Monday, by the Bangles, and I Don't Like Mondays, by the Boomtown Rats.

    To PwC Consulting, however, Monday inspires images of "fresh thinking, doughnuts, hot coffee".

    Monday, it reckons, galvanises people to "wake up early" and "expect chemistry".

    In one of the slogans designed to gee up staff and clients about the name change, the company says: "Sharpen your pencil, iron your crispy white shirts, set the alarm clock, relish the challenge, listen, be fulfilled, make an impact, take a risk."

    Mr Greg Brenneman, chief executive of PwC Consulting, said Monday benefits from being "a real word, concise, recognisable, global".

    I looked it up just to make sure it wasn't an April 1 news report (not disbelieving you but it is so incredible) and found this:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2163472.stm
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    Ooh, a rare chance to agree with PB's warrior on woke!
    PB is now called PLTCLBTTNG

    As others have said, my big problem with it is that it is very 2010.

    I didn't really understand Quilter as a rebrand for Old Mutual (or rather, part of Old Mutual), but it does feel a bit more 2018.
    As with Standard Life, OLD Mutual has some negative connotations to potential and existing customers, so they said let us come up with a new name that reassures people, blanket wasn't an option so they went for the maker of blankets and quilts.

    (I believe the name change was driven as much by the desire for a single unified platform for the various OM companies.)
    I have no problem at all with Standard Life, and I found the name both grounding and reassuring.

    I like Scottish Widows too, and I have no desire to be either Scottish or a Widow.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    AlistairM said:

    Does anyone know why the vaccines they are now releasing in just single years (i.e. 44 today) please?

    I'm 43y 8m old and had been eagerly anticipating the 40-44 age group opening up. To find now I am 4 months too young is somewhat frustrating to say the least!

    They did this briefly during the 50s - they are trying to stagger the hits on the website. Last time at least the whole cohort was opened up a day or two later - so keep hitting refresh!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173
    Phil said:



    "She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable."

    Looks to me like the CPS are also seriously at fault here.....

    The CPS were never involved: due to a quirk of history the Post Office has it’s own prosecuting team of lawyers & these were all private prosecutions carried out by the PO itself.
    I did not know that, very interesting.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,722

    kinabalu said:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1386445305361674240

    "The Prime Minister knowingly killed thousands of his own people and he must now be removed from office."

    No - he had to make awful choices between the current threat to life - the virus, and the less immediate, but no less significant threat to life of a tanking economy and all that follows.
    Is Owen Jones the person who writes filth for the Guardian ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Clever UQ by Labour, to try to get Gove to the Despatch Box - one of the few who knows who said what when. But he may just send a deputy. https://twitter.com/labourwhips/status/1386600573525446659
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399

    Re paying vast amounts of money for stupid names changes.

    Has this ever been beaten:

    Ask someone to name their least favourite words. The chances are that "Monday" will come somewhere on the list.

    Not so for the consultancy arm of PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), which has decided to rename itself after the most maligned day of the week in a $110 million (€116 million) rebranding.

    The consultancy is separating from the accountancy firm through a share offering expected this summer. It said yesterday it would, thereafter, be known as Monday.

    For many, the word Monday suggests alarm clocks and curtailed fun just as surely as dentist connotes pain.

    The feeling has been expressed in pop songs such as Manic Monday, by the Bangles, and I Don't Like Mondays, by the Boomtown Rats.

    To PwC Consulting, however, Monday inspires images of "fresh thinking, doughnuts, hot coffee".

    Monday, it reckons, galvanises people to "wake up early" and "expect chemistry".

    In one of the slogans designed to gee up staff and clients about the name change, the company says: "Sharpen your pencil, iron your crispy white shirts, set the alarm clock, relish the challenge, listen, be fulfilled, make an impact, take a risk."

    Mr Greg Brenneman, chief executive of PwC Consulting, said Monday benefits from being "a real word, concise, recognisable, global".


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/pwc-consulting-to-be-monday-in-110m-rebranding-1.1060060#:~:text=Not so for the consultancy,share offering expected this summer.

    I think it lasted about a month.

    Tossers. I give it a year.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,948
    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons. I rather suspect she is starting to realise that the calls for her to be prosecuted and stripped of her honour, coming from MPs and members of the Lords, might actually come to something.
    How would she apologise without affecting the live case?

    (No idea how that relates to legal restrictions.)
    It's a fair point that acting earlier might have been seen as affecting the case. But the outcome of the case was never really in doubt, and hanging on to all her positions for so long was very clearly in her self interest.

    The BBC radio documentary on the Post Office Scandal is well worth a listen. It was clear that Vennells put huge pressure on her team to give her the answers she wanted (emails show she said things like "I need to be able to say that the system data is reliable"), rather than making any genuine attempt to investigate, so it was very difficult for anyone lower down in the organisation to step up and admit the source and scale of the problem. For that alone, she carries a lot of responsibilty.
    It does sound like that Vennells didn't attempt to process an even handed investigation here. Mind you, this is not dissimilar to the way the Police work. They get someone in the frame, find (or manufacture) evidence to support their view and suppress any contradictory evidence. The CPS then ignore the rights and wrongs are just concerend with the chances of conviction.
    She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong.
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable.
    I had moved on from the Group before the story really broke, but I do remember that Horizon had been problematic from the start, and the fact that the system was full of bugs and faults (not specifically in relation to subpostmasters) was common canteen gossip from the start. Indeed the first deployment - which I was contemporary with - was a complete disaster and had to be abandoned. They appear to have assumed that the second rollout would have resolved all of the problems with the first.

    The culture wouldn't have been conducive to passing bad news upwards, and I don't know whether or not there were attempts at whistleblowing - one of the useful things an inquiry might be able to uncover. An additional factor was that the supplier Fujitsu was also passing false reassurance to the PO, and the one thing missing from the news coverage is Fujitsu's capability - if it does ever come to legal action, there'll also be Fujitsu people in the dock for sure.
    I am midway through the R4 podcast on it. Amazing journalism - over 10 years he investigated this. I couldn't bring myself to listen to it before the verdict was given because it would have been too frustrating.

    And yes, Vennells should be sanctioned. She may appear a decent type but if so she was either coerced (passively I don't think the heavies came round) or suspended her decency for what was a shocking episode in her life which, I hope, will haunt her for the rest of her days.

    And well done James Arbuthnot also. Top man. Plus that Alan bloke. Plus Kay someone. Plus them all really, who didn't give up.

    Can't wait to hear the rest of the series.
    Artbuthnot does deserve credit, despite having been a useless lazy absentee twat back when he was my constituency MP.

    No-one will have set out to arrive at the dreadful outcome, but it looks pretty clear that those at the top were more interested, and more adept (in the short term at least) at protecting their careers than in getting to the bottom of what was a growing mystery. As any politician knows, there are times when you have to step up and front the bad news.

    The frightening general point is how long - and how much effort - it takes for the wronged little guy to eventually win through.
    Yep and the forensic accountant was wise when he asked "are you sure you want me to investigate this because it might not go your way" and they blithely said yes sure. Only to rescind, it seems, their consent half way through.

    And the term Kafka-esque is much used and abused but is absolutely on the money here.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309
    Carnyx said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
    In just under two years Johnson has:
    1. Ended May's Article 50 quagmire.
    2. Got Brexit Done.
    3. Got a trade deal with Europe.
    4. Installed Liz Truss and got trade deals with many other nations.
    5. Installed Rishi Sunak and got furlough to get us through the economic crisis.
    6. Led the country through a global pandemic
    7. Got a world beating vaccine program.
    8. Britain is the first major economy in the west to come out of the pandemic as a result.
    9. And according to Leon he saved football.
    I know that gnashes your teeth but if that's incompetence long may it continue.
    6 not exactly finished ...ergo 8 not complete ...
    3,4,5,6,8,9 are Tory fantasies and just mince, best he can claim is vaccinations , you can be sure it was not his idea for certain, and him and his pals grifting the public for billions
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited April 2021
    Phil said:



    "She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable."

    Looks to me like the CPS are also seriously at fault here.....

    The CPS were never involved: due to a quirk of history the Post Office has it’s own prosecuting team of lawyers & these were all private prosecutions carried out by the PO itself.
    The Post Office/Royal Mail had a police force before the police did, I'll have you know! And still uniquely retains some police-like powers within its Investigation Division.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,342
    kinabalu said:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1386445305361674240

    "The Prime Minister knowingly killed thousands of his own people and he must now be removed from office."

    A great example of the hysteria that clouds the minds of Johnson’s haters. When you accuse a mainstream politician of murdering tens of thousands of his own people you just come over as a nut.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    tlg86 said:

    Phil said:



    "She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable."

    Looks to me like the CPS are also seriously at fault here.....

    The CPS were never involved: due to a quirk of history the Post Office has it’s own prosecuting team of lawyers & these were all private prosecutions carried out by the PO itself.
    I did not know that, very interesting.
    Wow. that sounds like a recipe for disaster - have your own prosecution service, that must be up for review.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
    In just under two years Johnson has:
    1. Ended May's Article 50 quagmire.
    2. Got Brexit Done.
    3. Got a trade deal with Europe.
    4. Installed Liz Truss and got trade deals with many other nations.
    5. Installed Rishi Sunak and got furlough to get us through the economic crisis.
    6. Led the country through a global pandemic
    7. Got a world beating vaccine program.
    8. Britain is the first major economy in the west to come out of the pandemic as a result.
    9. And according to Leon he saved football.
    I know that gnashes your teeth but if that's incompetence long may it continue.
    6 not exactly finished ...ergo 8 not complete ...
    3,4,5,6,8,9 are Tory fantasies and just mince, best he can claim is vaccinations , you can be sure it was not his idea for certain, and him and his pals grifting the public for billions
    The only real success is the one thing he was told to stay well away from.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    Ooh, a rare chance to agree with PB's warrior on woke!
    PB is now called PLTCLBTTNG

    As others have said, my big problem with it is that it is very 2010.

    I didn't really understand Quilter as a rebrand for Old Mutual (or rather, part of Old Mutual), but it does feel a bit more 2018.
    I think it's mainly swish marketing consultants fooling gullible executives who want to be seen to do something and change something. It's an easy substitute for real action.

    Golden Syrup has had exactly the same brand and packaging since 1885. It hasn't done them any harm.
    The time for a rebrand is typically when you've Ratnered your old one. Signet Group and Natwest sound much better than Ratner Group or RBS.

    The other time is if you're trying to cut ties to the past because you've moved on from where you were previously. EG BP trying to cut associations with Britain to have a more neutral name in other markets - not that it stopped Obama calling them that after the oil spill.

    Besides that its normally complete nonsense.
  • Consignia just delivered my post
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173

    tlg86 said:

    Phil said:



    "She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable."

    Looks to me like the CPS are also seriously at fault here.....

    The CPS were never involved: due to a quirk of history the Post Office has it’s own prosecuting team of lawyers & these were all private prosecutions carried out by the PO itself.
    I did not know that, very interesting.
    Wow. that sounds like a recipe for disaster - have your own prosecution service, that must be up for review.
    Yeah, an incentive to justify your own existence for sure.
  • .

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
    In just under two years Johnson has:
    1. Ended May's Article 50 quagmire.
    2. Got Brexit Done.
    3. Got a trade deal with Europe.
    4. Installed Liz Truss and got trade deals with many other nations.
    5. Installed Rishi Sunak and got furlough to get us through the economic crisis.
    6. Led the country through a global pandemic
    7. Got a world beating vaccine program.
    8. Britain is the first major economy in the west to come out of the pandemic as a result.
    9. And according to Leon he saved football.
    I know that gnashes your teeth but if that's incompetence long may it continue.
    I've just a teensy-teensy feeling that some of those might not glitter quite as brightly before too long.
    They are already either tarnished or are a fantasy:
    1. Ended the A50 quagmire. A50 was triggered long Liar became PM
    2. Oh Brexit got done alright. Ask a fisherman or anyone in import / export how thats working
    3. A trade deal that works so badly that large parts have had to be suspended. See point 2
    4. Continuation trade deals. So nothing has changed
    5. Rishi is the driver for the largesse and has made sure people know that
    6. When he says "led the country through the global pandemic", does he really want to associate Liar with *how* we led...?
    7. Photos of the PM posing with electronic pipettes isn't him actually doing vaccines
    8. The determination to drive the economy is why he declared that he'd rather have a pile of corpses
    9. He did - having given the green light first

    As Philip is an English nationalist I do wonder if his Boris fanboism is because he trusts the man to destroy the UK and bring about English independence.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Politico.com - U.S. pledges medical aid for India to combat surge
    America also intends to pay for an expansion of manufacturing capability for the vaccine manufacturer in India.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/25/us-pledges-medical-aid-for-india-to-combat-surge-484584

    What on earth is the USA doing with it's AZ stock. Should donate it to India tbh
    Emergent Biosciences is sitting on 150 MILLION doses of AZ and J&J that are currently unusable because their Baltimore factory has not been approved by the FDA.
    Wasn’t it a factory in Baltimore that wrecked a whole batch of J&J by supplying a contaminated ingredient?
    Same factory. Same pharma company.
    So why are you saying they're sitting on doses, when the reason the doses are unusable is because they're being tested for contamination and may need to be destroyed?

    That's not really sat on.
    No - there are 2 issues

    (1) some doses need to be destroyed because they used an AstraZeneca excipient for the J&J vaccine.

    (2) they’ve been manufacturing at risk but can’t release the batches until the fda approves the site (the 150m doses)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1386445305361674240

    "The Prime Minister knowingly killed thousands of his own people and he must now be removed from office."

    A great example of the hysteria that clouds the minds of Johnson’s haters. When you accuse a mainstream politician of murdering tens of thousands of his own people you just come over as a nut.
    But he's ranting to his fan club so will think everyone agrees.

    And then will wonder why elections don't turn out the same way.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1386445305361674240

    "The Prime Minister knowingly killed thousands of his own people and he must now be removed from office."

    A great example of the hysteria that clouds the minds of Johnson’s haters. When you accuse a mainstream politician of murdering tens of thousands of his own people you just come over as a nut.
    We had a prolific thread header writer (ex of this parish) who used to say the exact same thing as well.

    So much of it derives from an intense irritation at being defeated by someone whose values and policies they despise.
  • Scott_xP said:

    ‘dangerous political vacuum’ in Northern Ireland which could "fall over" warn Peter Hain, Chris Patten, Hugh Orde, Peter Mandelson and others in letter to Johnson https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/26/boris-johnson-is-warned-of-dangerous-political-vacuum-in-northern-ireland

    “Strong sense within loyalists and unionists that no one is listening to them + nobody in authority in Whitehall been honest with them about the consequences of Brexit.
    The most immediate step is therefore for the government, at the highest level, to be seen to take an interest."

    I take it they've written an equally strong letter to the European Union as well?
    Why would they do that? The EU aren't responsible for the hiving off of NI from the UK. That was our choice.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    IanB2 said:

    Phil said:



    "She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong
    That’s no defence, and there much surely be at least one whistleblower in the PO IT or audit departments who tried to say something at the time.

    The correct answer is almost always a cock-up rather than a conspiracy, but the more one reads about this case, the more it looks like a conspiracy that ruined hundreds of lives and requires people be held accountable."

    Looks to me like the CPS are also seriously at fault here.....

    The CPS were never involved: due to a quirk of history the Post Office has it’s own prosecuting team of lawyers & these were all private prosecutions carried out by the PO itself.
    The Post Office/Royal Mail had a police force before the police did, I'll have you know! And still uniquely retains some police-like powers within its Investigation Division.
    But I suspect not for much longer after this screw up...
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons. I rather suspect she is starting to realise that the calls for her to be prosecuted and stripped of her honour, coming from MPs and members of the Lords, might actually come to something.
    I'm going to stand up for the senior person here. Imagine you are the post office and your IT team say you need to have a new system so that you can more easily identify theft and fraud. That is introduced and goes pick this up. You ask your IT department to confirm standard of proof and this is sufficient to get convictions in a court of law

    This sounds to me like a tragic mistake. I don't know the details of the case but people often say they are innocent when they are not.

    This is absolutely tragic for those prosecuted and jailed, and they should be compensated but it may not be the chief execs fault.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399

    Scott_xP said:

    ‘dangerous political vacuum’ in Northern Ireland which could "fall over" warn Peter Hain, Chris Patten, Hugh Orde, Peter Mandelson and others in letter to Johnson https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/26/boris-johnson-is-warned-of-dangerous-political-vacuum-in-northern-ireland

    “Strong sense within loyalists and unionists that no one is listening to them + nobody in authority in Whitehall been honest with them about the consequences of Brexit.
    The most immediate step is therefore for the government, at the highest level, to be seen to take an interest."

    I take it they've written an equally strong letter to the European Union as well?
    Why would they do that? The EU aren't responsible for the hiving off of NI from the UK. That was our choice.
    The EU have shamelessly weaponised Northern Ireland and the peace process to try to force the UK to accept a soft Brexit. They have made precisely zero concessions to the Unionists in the province in doing so in the hope that emotional and political blackmail would so the rest.

    We are now seeing the consequences.

    They are fully responsible for destabilising the peace process, even though I doubt these Remainiac ultras cannot see it, and I hold their approach beneath contempt.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.

    On ESL the conversation was between Woodward and a SPAD with Boris doing a drop ins. Both no10 and Woodward have denied that ESL was discussed (and in a Mandy Rice-Davies approach Woodward said he couldn’t have discussed it as he didn’t know about it)

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2021
    Excellent to get the text off the NHS to come for the vaccination ... they’re demonstrably already progressing into 44 and some 43 year olds

    Tomorrow’s the day.


    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1386599227921469442?s=20
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    .

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
    Amused to read:"Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them." Johnson employed him, and many on the hard right of the party endorsed him as though he were some sort of messiah.. By that token, Johnson and his cabal are not true Conservatives. With that I would have to agree.

    A lot of damage control going on by Johnson apologists. The key comment from Cummings is on competence. Maybe the pot and kettle syndrome, but Johnson's incompetence will eventually catch up with him.
    In just under two years Johnson has:
    1. Ended May's Article 50 quagmire.
    2. Got Brexit Done.
    3. Got a trade deal with Europe.
    4. Installed Liz Truss and got trade deals with many other nations.
    5. Installed Rishi Sunak and got furlough to get us through the economic crisis.
    6. Led the country through a global pandemic
    7. Got a world beating vaccine program.
    8. Britain is the first major economy in the west to come out of the pandemic as a result.
    9. And according to Leon he saved football.
    I know that gnashes your teeth but if that's incompetence long may it continue.
    I've just a teensy-teensy feeling that some of those might not glitter quite as brightly before too long.
    They are already either tarnished or are a fantasy:
    1. Ended the A50 quagmire. A50 was triggered long Liar became PM
    2. Oh Brexit got done alright. Ask a fisherman or anyone in import / export how thats working
    3. A trade deal that works so badly that large parts have had to be suspended. See point 2
    4. Continuation trade deals. So nothing has changed
    5. Rishi is the driver for the largesse and has made sure people know that
    6. When he says "led the country through the global pandemic", does he really want to associate Liar with *how* we led...?
    7. Photos of the PM posing with electronic pipettes isn't him actually doing vaccines
    8. The determination to drive the economy is why he declared that he'd rather have a pile of corpses
    9. He did - having given the green light first

    As Philip is an English nationalist I do wonder if his Boris fanboism is because he trusts the man to destroy the UK and bring about English independence.
    1. The quagmire wasn't invoking Article 50, it was the fact we were stuck in a period began by May of ever-extending Article 50. We were stuck, like in a quagmire, within Article 50 unable to make any progress besides just extending Article 50 again and again.
    2. Yes ask people who export. The data shows exports are back to the same levels they were most of the pandemic while we were still in the transition period. Exporting is going on just fine, even if some relatively inconsequential parts of the economy need to adjust.
    3. Again the macroeconomy data doesn't support that. See point 2.
    4. Yes which the incredibly incompetent Liam Fox couldn't achieve and many were saying wouldn't be achieved. Plus she's already began talks on CPTPP, Australia and other deals.
    5. Yes and I name checked him. Who appointed him?
    6. Yes absolutely. One of the best in the world.
    7. 'The buck stops here'. If you can't give him any credit for that then you're just petty.
    8. The economy is more important long term absolutely. Many more lives depend upon that.
    9. Job done then if he did.

    No I don't want the UK destroyed. If Scotland etc go I want it to be because they want to go.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Charles said:

    On ESL the conversation was between Woodward and a SPAD with Boris doing a drop ins. Both no10 and Woodward have denied that ESL was discussed (and in a Mandy Rice-Davies approach Woodward said he couldn’t have discussed it as he didn’t know about it)

    These are the questions Labour’s @JoStevensLabour has demanded that No 10 answer 👇🏼 https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1386598040975384576/photo/1
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,579

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons. I rather suspect she is starting to realise that the calls for her to be prosecuted and stripped of her honour, coming from MPs and members of the Lords, might actually come to something.
    I'm going to stand up for the senior person here. Imagine you are the post office and your IT team say you need to have a new system so that you can more easily identify theft and fraud. That is introduced and goes pick this up. You ask your IT department to confirm standard of proof and this is sufficient to get convictions in a court of law

    This sounds to me like a tragic mistake. I don't know the details of the case but people often say they are innocent when they are not.

    This is absolutely tragic for those prosecuted and jailed, and they should be compensated but it may not be the chief execs fault.
    It didn't pass the smell test. I thought that at the time. She was very naive and culpable.
  • Charles said:

    Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.

    On ESL the conversation was between Woodward and a SPAD with Boris doing a drop ins. Both no10 and Woodward have denied that ESL was discussed (and in a Mandy Rice-Davies approach Woodward said he couldn’t have discussed it as he didn’t know about it)

    Fab. So having gone behind the PM's back to give assurances directly contrary to the PM's views, will the PM now sack the CoS for such an egregious mistake? Downing Street green lit the destruction of football. If he doesn't sack him he supports him and his actions.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977

    They are fully responsible for destabilising the peace process

    Fuck off

    People like you voted for it, not the EU
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,301



    In just under two years Johnson has:

    1. Ended May's Article 50 quagmire.
    2. Got Brexit Done.
    3. Got a trade deal with Europe.
    4. Installed Liz Truss and got trade deals with many other nations.
    5. Installed Rishi Sunak and got furlough to get us through the economic crisis.
    6. Led the country through a global pandemic
    7. Got a world beating vaccine program.
    8. Britain is the first major economy in the west to come out of the pandemic as a result.
    9. And according to Leon he saved football.
    I know that gnashes your teeth but if that's incompetence long may it continue.
    Some counter-arguments.

    1,2&3. No argument here: Johnson got Brexit done. At the price of f*cking up NI of course, but that was always the triangle of Brexit - one of freedom of movement, no border between NI & Ireland no border inside the UK. Johnson’s government chose the wall inside the UK between NI & the rest. It remains to be seen how this works out.

    4. Liz Truss has thus far rolled over a bunch of existing trade deals. Meanwhile the /actual/ new trade deal negotiations (with Australia) are not exactly going to plan, are they?

    5. Furlough? Sunak has zip to do with making Furlough happen; the real story here is how one of the most effective bureaucracies in the UK government (HMRC) & it’s ability to get money where it was needed as fast as possible saved the day. He’s very good at trying to take credit for the policy of course. Sadly, his eat-out-to-help-out campaign in the summer was directly responsible for the deaths of thousands later in the year, so even if we do give some credit to Sunak, we’re going to have to put those on the other side of the ledger.

    6. I mean, technically. I guess Johnson was in charge, for all that was worth: How did we do? Worst excess death rate in North America + Western Europe.

    7. Yup. Huge win for the government here: The reason our excess death rate isn’t far, far worse. The government has been saved from having to face up to the full scale of their incompetence by the success of the vaccine rollout.

    8. Great. Again, so long as you regard the 150k+ dead are are mere rounding error as Boris (let the bodies pile up, I don’t care) Johnson apparently does.

    9. I personally could not give a flying monkeys about football :)

    Johnson has been a lucky general. The vaccines worked & the pandemic will pass into historical memory.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Scott_xP said:

    ‘dangerous political vacuum’ in Northern Ireland which could "fall over" warn Peter Hain, Chris Patten, Hugh Orde, Peter Mandelson and others in letter to Johnson https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/26/boris-johnson-is-warned-of-dangerous-political-vacuum-in-northern-ireland

    “Strong sense within loyalists and unionists that no one is listening to them + nobody in authority in Whitehall been honest with them about the consequences of Brexit.
    The most immediate step is therefore for the government, at the highest level, to be seen to take an interest."

    This is a direct consequence of NI unionists not having a Brexit policy, and opposing their best option under T May. They NEVER say what they want, only what they don't. Their position is now dangerous and untenable.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    Hardly. Look at what she says: she apologises for the suffering. Not for her actions which caused that suffering.

    Frankly, it's the bare minimum to be expected. It's a mark of our times that we are pathetically grateful for someone who has behaved appallingly resulting in one of the worst ever and largest miscarriages of justice managing to make a feeble apology.
  • Scott_xP said:

    ‘dangerous political vacuum’ in Northern Ireland which could "fall over" warn Peter Hain, Chris Patten, Hugh Orde, Peter Mandelson and others in letter to Johnson https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/26/boris-johnson-is-warned-of-dangerous-political-vacuum-in-northern-ireland

    “Strong sense within loyalists and unionists that no one is listening to them + nobody in authority in Whitehall been honest with them about the consequences of Brexit.
    The most immediate step is therefore for the government, at the highest level, to be seen to take an interest."

    I take it they've written an equally strong letter to the European Union as well?
    Why would they do that? The EU aren't responsible for the hiving off of NI from the UK. That was our choice.
    The EU have shamelessly weaponised Northern Ireland and the peace process to try to force the UK to accept a soft Brexit. They have made precisely zero concessions to the Unionists in the province in doing so in the hope that emotional and political blackmail would so the rest.

    We are now seeing the consequences.

    They are fully responsible for destabilising the peace process, even though I doubt these Remainiac ultras cannot see it, and I hold their approach beneath contempt.
    Well the border has to go somewhere - we knew that from the start. We decided to leave, we had to provide the solution. We had options - roll over existing arrangements until a technical solution to an open border could be created, stay aligned (as we are...) to EEA standards to remove the need for checks, or put the border down the Irish Sea.

    We chose the latter. You can hold the opinions of this leave voter beneath contempt if you like, but I never hear from you frothers any practical alternative that isn't the EU fully capitulating and abolishing its external border.
  • MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/MonicaGandhi9/status/1386122845294456836

    "& only 0.00009% deaths related to COVID" amongst the vaccinated.

    USA 2019;
    Death rate: 869.7 deaths per 100,000 population

    Death rate on any particular day 2.38 deaths per 100,000 population

    or 0.00238%

    That data is incredible. A view into where we will be in 6 weeks. 99.9997% recorded efficacy against hospitalisation.
    Um - doesn't that require that every one of those 87 million vaccinated were exposed to COVID, such that 100% of a matched cohort would have been infected?

    --AS
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons. I rather suspect she is starting to realise that the calls for her to be prosecuted and stripped of her honour, coming from MPs and members of the Lords, might actually come to something.
    I'm going to stand up for the senior person here. Imagine you are the post office and your IT team say you need to have a new system so that you can more easily identify theft and fraud. That is introduced and goes pick this up. You ask your IT department to confirm standard of proof and this is sufficient to get convictions in a court of law

    This sounds to me like a tragic mistake. I don't know the details of the case but people often say they are innocent when they are not.

    This is absolutely tragic for those prosecuted and jailed, and they should be compensated but it may not be the chief execs fault.
    I think what pains me most is the ones who tried to raise concerns about the system - they were flagging issues. yet ultimately became the victim, and often imprisoned. That is not how a new system introduction should be (contrast to the yellow card system for the vaccines (and other medicines).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    AIUI F*ck Business that was a single source rumour, never substantiated, from a source within the EU negotiating team, repeated endlessly like members of the Natural Law Party reiterating their belief in Health Policy by Yogic Flying.

    I'd love to hear a firmer source for that if you have one.

    A good time to drop anti-Brexit campaign memes?
    The quote about coitus with business, was in reference to two or three high-profile pro-remain campaign groups, who were making nuisances of themselves during the Brexit negotiations.
    No it fecking wasn't, I know someone who was there when Boris Johnson said it. It was about companies, not Pro Remain groups.

    I'd also like to remind you that Boris Johnson refused to deny he had said it on several occasions.

    Boris Johnson has refused to deny claims he used an expletive when asked about business concerns about Brexit.

    The foreign secretary is reported to have used the swear word at a diplomatic gathering last week.

    Asked about this in the Commons, he said he may have "expressed scepticism about some of the views of those who profess to speak up for business".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44618154
    BJ. I want to do X

    SPAD. But business says...

    BJ. I know. I still want to do X

    SPAD.but business won’t like it

    BJ. I know. I still want to do X

    SPAD But business...

    BJ. “Fuck business”

    Is an entirely plausible and reasonable conversation. Business is just one stakeholder in society and shouldn’t get their way all the time
This discussion has been closed.