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Why I am amongst those sceptical about Tory chances in Hartlepool – politicalbetting.com

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  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,274
    edited April 2021
    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Pulpstar said:

    Interesting that Cummings has gone from public enemy number 1 to the fountain of original truth.

    I am loathed to believe him but if he's got audio recordings then who am I to argue? And BoJo has spent his entire career lying, I think I trust BoJo less to be honest.
    Loath, not loathed.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    eek said:

    I wonder if this will harm Johnson less than people think.

    Right now the news is constantly contrasting the relatively good situation here with the horror in India. It might be that that looms larger in the collective mind than a quote that, if the situation weren't both still active and relatively good for the UK (and its government), would be very damaging.

    Until someone points out we were merely days away from having an India type situation here.

    Remember on December 14th the Government was threatening Greenwich council to keep schools open days before London went into a second lockdown.

    Even then it was obvious was the situation was going to be...

    The thing with exponential growth is that by the time you know you have a problem, the problem is already out of your control.

    14 December was before we knew what the Kent variant meant that was only told to the Government just before Christmas and they acted within 24 hours of that remember?

    And we didn't have an India type situation here, that was prevented.

    So . . . nul points.
    What about when the forced schools to go back for a day after the new year before u-turning?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Interesting that Cummings has gone from public enemy number 1 to the fountain of original truth.

    I am loathed to believe him but if he's got audio recordings then who am I to argue? And BoJo has spent his entire career lying, I think I trust BoJo less to be honest.
    Loath, not loathed.
    Autocorrect strikes again, thanks for correcting me Sir
  • mickydroymickydroy Posts: 316
    I think this Hartlepool election couldn't come at a better time for the Tories, I backed them some weeks ago to win this, but I do believe this is a high water mark for them, the only way is down from here, whether they can hold on to enough support at the next GE is another matter, again I think they will, just. This is when it starts getting interesting, the volatile nature of the electorate, I am sure means they are in for a dramatic collapse of support, some of the blue supporters on here are in for a nasty shock, if they think the tories will rule for another twenty years, make the most of these coming elections, time is ticking
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Politico.com - U.S. pledges medical aid for India to combat surge
    America also intends to pay for an expansion of manufacturing capability for the vaccine manufacturer in India.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/25/us-pledges-medical-aid-for-india-to-combat-surge-484584

    What on earth is the USA doing with it's AZ stock. Should donate it to India tbh
    Emergent Biosciences is sitting on 150 MILLION doses of AZ and J&J that are currently unusable because their Baltimore factory has not been approved by the FDA.
    Wasn’t it a factory in Baltimore that wrecked a whole batch of J&J by supplying a contaminated ingredient?
    Same factory. Same pharma company.
    Then withholding approval would appear to be sensible!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Completely agreed with Mike.

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    @Mexicanpete Annoyingly, I wrote a long post in response to yours and then accidentally deleted it when editing it!

    But, this has influenced a lot of people in the soft centre/centre left.

    Take how Robin DiAngelo, author of White Fragility, has put it: ‘a positive white identity is an impossible goal. White identity is inherently racist; white people do not exist outside the system of white supremacy.'

    When racism is viewed in this way, it cannot be challenged through individual white people not being racist; instead, white people must be actively anti-racist. Anti-racism starts with white people acknowledging their own racism and battling the fragility prompted by
    threats to their privilege. From here, white people must probe deep into their psyches to root out unconscious
    bias before finally, in seeking to build the world anew, thinking carefully about the new reality constructed with
    each word uttered.

    Critical race theorists have reinvented
    racism. Only this time around, it is not black people that are considered a problem, but white people.

    How is that liberal? Or in accordance with the values of the enlightenment?

    Not being funny but WTF is a "positive white identity" meant to be? What's that even mean?

    I don't identify as white, I am white but I identify as myself. I share more in common with my politics for instance with Rishi Sunak than I do John McDonnell, so what has race or white identity got to do with it?

    I agree that simply not being racist should be enough. But I'm curious why anyone would want a "white identity".
    Well you identify as yourself except for when you identify as Mother. 😨

    More seriously, you touch on a crux point. You don’t id as white because there's no need to. Nor do I. It's the default. The master key.

    This is White Privilege. And White Fragility is a term for how some seem to crumble at the thought. Simply cannot handle it being discussed in this way for some reason.

    For me it's an interesting way of looking at things. That's what this "superwokery" is all about imo. That's what I get from it. Some insights that are worth thinking about and can aid understanding.

    And no more than that. It doesn't explain the whole of race relations or lead to the promised land. But I do think people short change themselves if they just reject it out of hand cos it sounds all wonky and difficult and not what Proper Blokes should be concerning themselves with.
    Nah, I don't identify as white not because its the default, but rather because not being a racist I don't find my skin colour remotely interesting.

    I have black hair, does that mean I should have black identity? For my hair colour? Or would you think that is silly?

    The key to ending racism is to not think about race at all, to be colourblind, not to make race the be all and end all identity.
    Perhaps the most infantile post you have ever launched upon this site. I'm truly shocked (unless you are trolling) by the total lack of intelligence or anything resembling insight demonstrated here. It's kind of a masterpiece of its kind. Three quite stupifyingly vacuous paras one after the other. The last one can just about be forgiven for being pure pollyanna and nothing worse but the rest? Oh my Lord. What a dim dim chap you are.

    Sorry, Philip. I have to stop pandering and speak truth to people sometimes.
    Oh stop being such a pretentious prick.

    Maybe for you everything is about skin colour, but its not for me. I was brought up to treat everyone the same regardless of skin colour, and so I do. I couldn't care less and don't think about skin colour. Not because its a "default" or anything, but because its merely a colour it says nothing about who you are. Just like hair or eyes or anything else.
    Not much better than the mess you sicked up in the last one. Which was -

    "As a white man in England I'm not conscious of my skin colour because I'm not a racist."

    A sentiment of quite breathtaking yuck. By large and equal amounts vapid, fatuous, crass and ignorant. Pretty offensive too if you think about it. Not to me in particular. It’s offensive to anyone with an actual interest in this subject rather than using it as a hook on which to hang cheap, braindead attempts at signaling a virtue which it's crystal clear you don't possess.

    You're of limited intelligence - no crime - but you're also something far worse. A total phony.

    I see you. 👀
    Oh cut the crap. Do you know who gives a shit about skin colour?

    Racists.
    Philip, just please THINK about you're saying. That's all I want. You don't need to agree with me or see things the same way. But you must invest something in it.

    The inference is that a black person in England who is conscious of being black, identifies as black, is by consequence a racist.

    This is making a mockery of the subject. It's showing it no respect.

    C'mon.
    No its not.

    People are free to have other opinions. Some white people identify as being white, that's on them. Some don't, including me.

    Some black people will identify as being black, that's on them. Others don't.

    People are individuals. If you try and put everyone of a certain colour or whatever into a box, then that is racist. You are inferring stuff, that's your own prejudices doing so not mine.
    I suggested that as a white man in England you weren't particularly conscious of your skin colour because it was the default.

    You said no it has nothing to do with that. It's because you're not a racist!

    That's on the record, I'm afraid. The sentiment and it's clear and absurd inference is "on you".

    As I say, you need to think before you say stuff. If you don't you end up in this sort of mess. It's not the first time, let's face it.
    Completely disagreed with Kinabalu. Sorry but logic and text doesn't work that way. If you are racist then you think about colour.

    If you're not, you might or might not depending upon your experiences.

    Its not all one or the other, you can't pigeon hole everyone the way you're trying to do. Your inference is wrong and you made it.
    You chose crass, vacuous virtue signaling over serious engagement with the point. No amount of post hoc contortions can undo that. You should keep off this topic. You try too hard to come over as "not a racist bone in your body". It feels off. It's phony. Get back to flags and free markets and making England great again. At least there's authenticity there.
    Maybe you should stop being judgemental.

    I don't try hard to come over as not racist, the reason I come off that way is simply that I'm not. Same as most people nowadays, especially most young people.

    Racism is a thing of the past. Its an alien concept to like homophobia that should be left in the past.

    Your attempts to try and flush everyone out as a secret racist is what is really off and phony. Maybe you should pay more attention to the man in the mirror and stop judging others.
    I wish we could simply say that "racism is a thing of the past".

    Racism still exists. Not as much as it used to, and the UK can be proud of what it's achieved in the last fifty years.

    But when Tommy Robinson creates a fake video of him being hit by an African migrant and that gets a million views and tens of thousands of likes, that tells you there's some definitely racism. I could give you a hundred more examples - many of which don't involve white people at all - that tell us that we need to be on guard.

    It is also worth remembering that the UK is not the US. There is far more systemic racism, particularly in the Deep South, in the US than in the UK. And there is a legacy of slavery and Jim Crow and voter suppression that the UK simply doesn't have.

    The problem is that Critical Race theory does nothing to overturn the real racism that exists, it serves only as an enormous distraction and something that (sadly) puts a large number of normal people on the same side as Tommy Robinson.
    Oh 100% agreed with all this. There's a reason I said most people.

    Tommy Robinson, his scumbag followers and anyone like them are in the minority that the majority of non racist people abhor. In the past such views would have been shared by many more people. Just because most people aren't racist doesn't mean we shouldn't try and deal with those that are.

    As for the USA I 100% agree that the USA is not the UK. When the typical number of black people killed by American cops measures hundreds per annum, versus around zero in the UK, the two are worlds apart.

    Finally I would note that racism is being and has been largely defeated in the UK by being anti racist. Things like the Macpherson Report etc have dealt with it. Not going on about critical race theory etc.
    I think you have your rose tinted glasses on , it is far from gone unless there are lots of liars out complaining about it constantly.
    Mostly gone.

    There's a minority who are victims of racism. The overwhelming majority of blacks in the UK surveyed say they have not been discriminated against in the past five years, that is something that is a good thing: https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2019-being-black-in-the-eu-summary_en.pdf

    The minority that have been, that needs to be tackled. But it is a minority facing attitudes that belong to the past.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    eek said:

    I wonder if this will harm Johnson less than people think.

    Right now the news is constantly contrasting the relatively good situation here with the horror in India. It might be that that looms larger in the collective mind than a quote that, if the situation weren't both still active and relatively good for the UK (and its government), would be very damaging.

    Until someone points out we were merely days away from having an India type situation here.

    Remember on December 14th the Government was threatening Greenwich council to keep schools open days before London went into a second lockdown.

    Even then it was obvious was the situation was going to be...

    The thing with exponential growth is that by the time you know you have a problem, the problem is already out of your control.

    14 December was before we knew what the Kent variant meant that was only told to the Government just before Christmas and they acted within 24 hours of that remember?

    And we didn't have an India type situation here, that was prevented.

    So . . . nul points.
    14 December is the day Greenwich Council was told it could not close schools see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55311573

    If Boris had done what he did on the 17th on the 14th - we would have been out of this mess at least 3 in not 4 weeks early.

    Instead Boris let schools re-open on January 4th only for them to be told to close at zero notice from the 5th.

    There is a whole lot of issues with the January lockdown which can be pointed to as a combination of Boris wanting Christmas to continue and not proactively looking at local data.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Mr. eek, the Prime Minister has been slow and incompetent throughout this.

    But: theoretical possibilities that didn't come to pass weigh less than a feather with the public. Even contrasting the second lockdown's necessity with India right now (and it's been top of the news for a few days) makes the UK situation look fantastic.

    I should stress, if he did say the alleged quote that's horrendous. But then, I thought he was unfit to be PM anyway. It may well be that the media get giddy about it and the Opposition smell blood, and the electorate look at the news and think "Things are so much better here. Phew.".
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    mickydroy said:

    I think this Hartlepool election couldn't come at a better time for the Tories, I backed them some weeks ago to win this, but I do believe this is a high water mark for them, the only way is down from here, whether they can hold on to enough support at the next GE is another matter, again I think they will, just. This is when it starts getting interesting, the volatile nature of the electorate, I am sure means they are in for a dramatic collapse of support, some of the blue supporters on here are in for a nasty shock, if they think the tories will rule for another twenty years, make the most of these coming elections, time is ticking

    The immediate aftermath of the unlocking will see a mini spending boom and good moods as people are allowed to travel and eat inside restaurants again. After that, all of the news is likely to be bad.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    eek said:

    eek said:

    I wonder if this will harm Johnson less than people think.

    Right now the news is constantly contrasting the relatively good situation here with the horror in India. It might be that that looms larger in the collective mind than a quote that, if the situation weren't both still active and relatively good for the UK (and its government), would be very damaging.

    Until someone points out we were merely days away from having an India type situation here.

    Remember on December 14th the Government was threatening Greenwich council to keep schools open days before London went into a second lockdown.

    Even then it was obvious was the situation was going to be...

    The thing with exponential growth is that by the time you know you have a problem, the problem is already out of your control.

    14 December was before we knew what the Kent variant meant that was only told to the Government just before Christmas and they acted within 24 hours of that remember?

    And we didn't have an India type situation here, that was prevented.

    So . . . nul points.
    14 December is the day Greenwich Council was told it could not close schools see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55311573

    If Boris had done what he did on the 17th on the 14th - we would have been out of this mess at least 3 in not 4 weeks early.

    Instead Boris let schools re-open on January 4th only for them to be told to close at zero notice from the 5th.

    There is a whole lot of issues with the January lockdown which can be pointed to as a combination of Boris wanting Christmas to continue and not proactively looking at local data.

    On the 4th of Jan 843 people died of Covid. Deaths had been rising all December.

    The notion that we didn't know because Kent Covid was so magical is so astronomically nonsense that I cannot engage with it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,112
    edited April 2021
    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    AIUI F*ck Business that was a single source rumour, never substantiated, from a source within the EU negotiating team, repeated endlessly like members of the Natural Law Party reiterating their belief in Health Policy by Yogic Flying.

    I'd love to hear a firmer source for that if you have one.

    A good time to drop anti-Brexit campaign memes?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited April 2021
    eek said:

    eek said:

    I wonder if this will harm Johnson less than people think.

    Right now the news is constantly contrasting the relatively good situation here with the horror in India. It might be that that looms larger in the collective mind than a quote that, if the situation weren't both still active and relatively good for the UK (and its government), would be very damaging.

    Until someone points out we were merely days away from having an India type situation here.

    Remember on December 14th the Government was threatening Greenwich council to keep schools open days before London went into a second lockdown.

    Even then it was obvious was the situation was going to be...

    The thing with exponential growth is that by the time you know you have a problem, the problem is already out of your control.

    14 December was before we knew what the Kent variant meant that was only told to the Government just before Christmas and they acted within 24 hours of that remember?

    And we didn't have an India type situation here, that was prevented.

    So . . . nul points.
    14 December is the day Greenwich Council was told it could not close schools see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55311573

    If Boris had done what he did on the 17th on the 14th - we would have been out of this mess at least 3 in not 4 weeks early.

    Instead Boris let schools re-open on January 4th only for them to be told to close at zero notice from the 5th.

    There is a whole lot of issues with the January lockdown which can be pointed to as a combination of Boris wanting Christmas to continue and not proactively looking at local data.

    Although the social care mistake was surely the more deadly, the single day at school for most primary pupils before locking them away was the mistake that was the most idiotic. Unlocking for Christmas shopping and thereby wrecking Christmas itself was the second most idiotic.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:

    eek said:

    I wonder if this will harm Johnson less than people think.

    Right now the news is constantly contrasting the relatively good situation here with the horror in India. It might be that that looms larger in the collective mind than a quote that, if the situation weren't both still active and relatively good for the UK (and its government), would be very damaging.

    Until someone points out we were merely days away from having an India type situation here.

    Remember on December 14th the Government was threatening Greenwich council to keep schools open days before London went into a second lockdown.

    Even then it was obvious was the situation was going to be...

    The thing with exponential growth is that by the time you know you have a problem, the problem is already out of your control.

    14 December was before we knew what the Kent variant meant that was only told to the Government just before Christmas and they acted within 24 hours of that remember?

    And we didn't have an India type situation here, that was prevented.

    So . . . nul points.
    What about when the forced schools to go back for a day after the new year before u-turning?
    That was odd but not really that big of a deal. Most schools didn't.

    Again the report advising the Government to put the country on alert level 5 was given to the Government on 4 January and the Government closed schools on the same day as well. Why the report couldn't have been given sooner I don't know, people working on these things shouldn't be waiting for Bank Holiday weekends to end before they get together but maybe there's a reason they did.

    Either way, it didn't result in any spike in Covid cases reached a peak too soon for that to have had a major impact.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MattW said:

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    AIUI F*ck Business that was a single source rumour, never substantiated, from a source within the EU negotiating team, repeated endlessly like members of the Natural Law Party reiterating their belief in Health Policy by Yogic Flying.
    Johnson was specifically asked about it by the press and did not deny he said it.
  • If I knew it was time to lock down in early December as did many others here, the idea BoJo did not is absurd. He chose not to because he wanted to save Christmas
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    If I knew it was time to lock down in early December as did many others here, the idea BoJo did not is absurd. He chose not to because he wanted to save Christmas

    You say that as if its a bad thing.

    Civil Liberties should not be denied lightly or flippantly.

    The NHS never collapsed. Lockdown did its job. Its gone on too long, it wasn't entered too early.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    The fact Cummings is saying he recorded confidential meetings seems bizarre - highly illegal but also gives an indication of how he was running/supporting the place. No wonder civil servants loathed him
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    edited April 2021

    If I knew it was time to lock down in early December as did many others here, the idea BoJo did not is absurd. He chose not to because he wanted to save Christmas

    You say that as if its a bad thing.

    Civil Liberties should not be denied lightly or flippantly.

    The NHS never collapsed. Lockdown did its job. Its gone on too long, it wasn't entered too early.
    It's gone on so long because we entered it too late.

    For every week of delay going in, you have to stay locked up for X more weeks at the backend.

    We would have been home free by Easter (i.e. May 17th level of freedom) if Boris has kept things closed in December.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,112
    Thanks for the piece Mike.

    I just can't call this.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited April 2021

    Alistair said:

    eek said:

    I wonder if this will harm Johnson less than people think.

    Right now the news is constantly contrasting the relatively good situation here with the horror in India. It might be that that looms larger in the collective mind than a quote that, if the situation weren't both still active and relatively good for the UK (and its government), would be very damaging.

    Until someone points out we were merely days away from having an India type situation here.

    Remember on December 14th the Government was threatening Greenwich council to keep schools open days before London went into a second lockdown.

    Even then it was obvious was the situation was going to be...

    The thing with exponential growth is that by the time you know you have a problem, the problem is already out of your control.

    14 December was before we knew what the Kent variant meant that was only told to the Government just before Christmas and they acted within 24 hours of that remember?

    And we didn't have an India type situation here, that was prevented.

    So . . . nul points.
    What about when the forced schools to go back for a day after the new year before u-turning?
    That was odd but not really that big of a deal. Most schools didn't.

    Again the report advising the Government to put the country on alert level 5 was given to the Government on 4 January and the Government closed schools on the same day as well. Why the report couldn't have been given sooner I don't know, people working on these things shouldn't be waiting for Bank Holiday weekends to end before they get together but maybe there's a reason they did.

    Either way, it didn't result in any spike in Covid cases reached a peak too soon for that to have had a major impact.
    It's about judgement - and in particular being able to tell which way the wind is likely to blow. PB was full of people screaming madness as the government threatened Greenwich with legal action for keeping its pupils at home, and as it ordered primary pupils back into school. It was quite obvious that a u-turn would come sooner or later, yet the government was unable to see that its position had become indefensible.
  • Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    If I knew it was time to lock down in early December as did many others here, the idea BoJo did not is absurd. He chose not to because he wanted to save Christmas

    You say that as if its a bad thing.

    Civil Liberties should not be denied lightly or flippantly.

    The NHS never collapsed. Lockdown did its job. Its gone on too long, it wasn't entered too early.
    It's gone on so long because we entered it too late.

    For every week of delay going in, you have to stay locked up for X more weeks at the backend.

    We would have been home free by Easter (i.e. May 17th level of freedom) if Boris has kept things closed in December.
    No we wouldn't because they're timetabling things based upon the vaccine rollout, not the case numbers.

    If they were timetabling things based on the case numbers then we'd be at least May 17 level already now, its inexcusable that we're not, but they're going off dates not data to match the vaccine rollout.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173
    eek said:

    If I knew it was time to lock down in early December as did many others here, the idea BoJo did not is absurd. He chose not to because he wanted to save Christmas

    You say that as if its a bad thing.

    Civil Liberties should not be denied lightly or flippantly.

    The NHS never collapsed. Lockdown did its job. Its gone on too long, it wasn't entered too early.
    It's gone on so long because we entered it too late.

    For every week of delay going in, you have to stay locked up for X more weeks at the backend.

    We would have been home free by Easter (i.e. May 17th level of freedom) if Boris has kept things closed in December.
    Disagree with this. The timetable for unlocking is driven by vaccines not infections.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    edited April 2021

    Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.

    My postal vote arrived last Thursday - if Hartlepool postal votes went out at the same time that may or may not be a factor.

    Equally I suspect Boris's stupid comments won't be as significant as the fact the council currently getting least "Teesside bribe" money is Hartlepool.

    Also I doubt many people in Hartlepool care about the ESL - it's not going to help their local teams.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    eek said:

    I wonder if this will harm Johnson less than people think.

    Right now the news is constantly contrasting the relatively good situation here with the horror in India. It might be that that looms larger in the collective mind than a quote that, if the situation weren't both still active and relatively good for the UK (and its government), would be very damaging.

    Until someone points out we were merely days away from having an India type situation here.

    Remember on December 14th the Government was threatening Greenwich council to keep schools open days before London went into a second lockdown.

    Even then it was obvious was the situation was going to be...

    The thing with exponential growth is that by the time you know you have a problem, the problem is already out of your control.

    14 December was before we knew what the Kent variant meant that was only told to the Government just before Christmas and they acted within 24 hours of that remember?

    And we didn't have an India type situation here, that was prevented.

    So . . . nul points.
    Nice try, but no.

    By mid November, it was clear that something was going wrong in Kent; cases weren't falling the same way they were elsewhere, even though we were all in the November semi-lockdown.

    The degree of reopening in December, and the delay to the post-Christmas lockdown were both deadly gambles that failed. And the odds weren't just misjudged with hindsight; they were obvious fails with a bit of foresight and a bit of understanding of exponential growth.
    Philip is simply earning his salary as advocate to the devil, by royal appointment.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    eek said:

    Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.

    My postal vote arrived last Thursday - if Hartlepool postal votes went out at the same time that may or may not be a factor.

    Equally I suspect Boris's stupid comments won't be as significant as the fact the council currently getting least "Teesside bribe" money is Hartlepool.

    Postal votes (for pre-election applications) were mailed out by most councils early last week. But my rule of thumb is that a quarter are returned instantly, a quarter during the remaining weeks of the campaign, a quarter at the last minute (including an increasing number taken to polling stations) and the last quarter not returned at all. So the suggestions you often see that news comes "too late" for postal voters is overstating the case.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601
    edited April 2021
    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    edited April 2021
    MattW said:

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    AIUI F*ck Business that was a single source rumour, never substantiated, from a source within the EU negotiating team, repeated endlessly like members of the Natural Law Party reiterating their belief in Health Policy by Yogic Flying.

    I'd love to hear a firmer source for that if you have one.

    A good time to drop anti-Brexit campaign memes?
    The quote about coitus with business, was in reference to two or three high-profile pro-remain campaign groups of ‘ unless leaders’, who were making nuisances of themselves during the Brexit negotiations.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    In other news:

    Northern Ireland is in a dangerous political vacuum and could “fall over” unless the UK government acts swiftly, according to a cross-party group of former cabinet ministers with experience in the region.

    Boris Johnson needs to show more urgency and focus to ameliorate Brexit’s damage to the peace process, the group tells the prime minister in an open letter published on Monday.

    “The lesson of the past 50 years or more in Northern Ireland is that if there is no forward movement things do not stand still: they fall over. It is the responsibility of the UK government to ensure that does not happen because there is nothing more dangerous than a political vacuum.”

    The letter tacitly accuses Johnson and the Northern Ireland secretary, Brandon Lewis, of endangering the 1998 Good Friday agreement through neglect and dishonesty.

    The letter is signed by four former Labour Northern Ireland secretaries: Peter Hain, Shaun Woodward, Peter Mandelson and Paul Brown. It was also signed by Chris Patten, a former Conservative party chairman who led a commission on policing in Northern Ireland, Sir Hugh Orde, a former chief constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, Lord Robin Eames, a former Church of Ireland primate, Des Browne, a minister in the Tony Blair and Gordon Brown governments, and Patrick Cormack, a former Tory MP. Seven of the nine signatories sit in the House of Lords.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,009
    edited April 2021

    Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.

    Can we just clarify a point

    I heard this morning that the allegation on the front of the mail was not from Cummings, but another source with fingers pointing at Gove

    It is rather important to confirm who has made this allegation

    And you jump on every little rumour if you think it will damage Boris but the ESL one is surreal.

    Boris condemned it immediately and went on the media to say so, led the government's response by appointing Tracey Crouch to head up the fan based review, and Ed Woodward himself completely denied he had discussed the ESL with Boris
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601
    edited April 2021
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    AIUI F*ck Business that was a single source rumour, never substantiated, from a source within the EU negotiating team, repeated endlessly like members of the Natural Law Party reiterating their belief in Health Policy by Yogic Flying.

    I'd love to hear a firmer source for that if you have one.

    A good time to drop anti-Brexit campaign memes?
    The quote about coitus with business, was in reference to two or three high-profile pro-remain campaign groups, who were making nuisances of themselves during the Brexit negotiations.
    No it fecking wasn't, I know someone who was there when Boris Johnson said it. It was about companies, not Pro Remain groups.

    I'd also like to remind you that Boris Johnson refused to deny he had said it on several occasions.

    Boris Johnson has refused to deny claims he used an expletive when asked about business concerns about Brexit.

    The foreign secretary is reported to have used the swear word at a diplomatic gathering last week.

    Asked about this in the Commons, he said he may have "expressed scepticism about some of the views of those who profess to speak up for business".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44618154
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    eek said:

    I wonder if this will harm Johnson less than people think.

    Right now the news is constantly contrasting the relatively good situation here with the horror in India. It might be that that looms larger in the collective mind than a quote that, if the situation weren't both still active and relatively good for the UK (and its government), would be very damaging.

    Until someone points out we were merely days away from having an India type situation here.

    Remember on December 14th the Government was threatening Greenwich council to keep schools open days before London went into a second lockdown.

    Even then it was obvious was the situation was going to be...

    The thing with exponential growth is that by the time you know you have a problem, the problem is already out of your control.

    14 December was before we knew what the Kent variant meant that was only told to the Government just before Christmas and they acted within 24 hours of that remember?

    And we didn't have an India type situation here, that was prevented.

    So . . . nul points.
    Nice try, but no.

    By mid November, it was clear that something was going wrong in Kent; cases weren't falling the same way they were elsewhere, even though we were all in the November semi-lockdown.

    The degree of reopening in December, and the delay to the post-Christmas lockdown were both deadly gambles that failed. And the odds weren't just misjudged with hindsight; they were obvious fails with a bit of foresight and a bit of understanding of exponential growth.
    Deaths had been growing exponentially since the start of September to the October sort of lockdown.

    We were incredibly, blindingly, obviously in an exponential growth situation.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.

    My postal vote arrived last Thursday - if Hartlepool postal votes went out at the same time that may or may not be a factor.

    Equally I suspect Boris's stupid comments won't be as significant as the fact the council currently getting least "Teesside bribe" money is Hartlepool.

    Postal votes (for pre-election applications) were mailed out by most councils early last week. But my rule of thumb is that a quarter are returned instantly, a quarter during the remaining weeks of the campaign, a quarter at the last minute (including an increasing number taken to polling stations) and the last quarter not returned at all. So the suggestions you often see that news comes "too late" for postal voters is overstating the case.
    That was why I said it may or may not be a factor.

    Probably a bigger one is that with Labour giving up on Jess (as she is out of action with Covid) there is time for labour canvassers to focus on Hartlepool were they wanting to do so.

    I still don't think Labour will keep the seat but there are reasons why they might - I thinking working on the odds being 50/50 and betting on whoever is value makes sense.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    Looks like another Consignia to me.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,504
    Is that picture Hartlepool? I have never been there but must admit that is not at all how I imagined it from the descriptions over the years.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Mr. Eagles, this reminds me of Blackadder's quote about Charlie Chaplin being a genius for persuading someone to pay him a million dollars a year for wearing a pair of stupid trousers.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    Returning for a moment to the Post Office, IIRC one senior judge talked about perjury charges for, again IIRC Fujitsu staff.
    I wonder if we are likely to see some senior, at the time, Post Office staff in the dock.
    After all one can only say one's never seen something before once!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    If I knew it was time to lock down in early December as did many others here, the idea BoJo did not is absurd. He chose not to because he wanted to save Christmas

    You say that as if its a bad thing.

    Civil Liberties should not be denied lightly or flippantly.

    The NHS never collapsed. Lockdown did its job. Its gone on too long, it wasn't entered too early.
    Saving Christmas would have been a good thing. The way to have done it - as many including me were saying beforehand - would have been to extend the lockdown through to just before the holiday period, then allow us to meet our families over the bank holidays. Which would have been no more damaging than what actually happened (probably less so given that many went ahead and had some sort of Christmas regardless).
  • IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    Looks like another Consignia to me.
    Kinda, I understand why they need a name change, as no one wants a standard life, they want an awesome fantastic life, but this is taking the piss.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    Morning all,

    I agree with Mike.
  • Is that picture Hartlepool? I have never been there but must admit that is not at all how I imagined it from the descriptions over the years.

    Yes, it's The National Royal Navy Musuem.

    https://www.nmrn.org.uk/our-museums/national-museum-royal-navy-hartlepool
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    edited April 2021

    Is that picture Hartlepool? I have never been there but must admit that is not at all how I imagined it from the descriptions over the years.

    From memory it's their Maritime museum which is now (due to austerity cost cutting but a lot of luck) the Nation Museum of the Royal Navy - Hartlepool https://www.nmrn.org.uk/our-museums/national-museum-royal-navy-hartlepool

    That and the Headland is nice but don't look in the opposite direction and even fans of 1960s brutalist architecture won't like the town centre.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,301

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    The fact Cummings is saying he recorded confidential meetings seems bizarre - highly illegal but also gives an indication of how he was running/supporting the place. No wonder civil servants loathed him
    Is it actually illegal?

    (I have no idea - hence the question!)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    edited April 2021

    IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    Looks like another Consignia to me.
    Kinda, I understand why they need a name change, as no one wants a standard life, they want an awesome fantastic life, but this is taking the piss.
    It's a very 2010 branding approach - remove some vowels as they are the only domain names left.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,112
    edited April 2021
    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons.
    No, she doesn't. Is there a source for that claim?

    https://news.sky.com/story/ex-post-office-chief-vennells-quits-morrisons-and-dunelm-boards-12287211
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    AIUI F*ck Business that was a single source rumour, never substantiated, from a source within the EU negotiating team, repeated endlessly like members of the Natural Law Party reiterating their belief in Health Policy by Yogic Flying.

    I'd love to hear a firmer source for that if you have one.

    A good time to drop anti-Brexit campaign memes?
    The quote about coitus with business, was in reference to two or three high-profile pro-remain campaign groups, who were making nuisances of themselves during the Brexit negotiations.
    No it fecking wasn't, I know someone who was there when Boris Johnson said it. It was about companies, not Pro Remain groups.

    I'd also like to remind you that Boris Johnson refused to deny he had said it on several occasions.

    Boris Johnson has refused to deny claims he used an expletive when asked about business concerns about Brexit.

    The foreign secretary is reported to have used the swear word at a diplomatic gathering last week.

    Asked about this in the Commons, he said he may have "expressed scepticism about some of the views of those who profess to speak up for business".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44618154
    He did indeed say the words attributed to him - but the missing context is that it was in reference to the campaign groups trying to overturn government policy, rather than to businesses in general.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:

    eek said:

    I wonder if this will harm Johnson less than people think.

    Right now the news is constantly contrasting the relatively good situation here with the horror in India. It might be that that looms larger in the collective mind than a quote that, if the situation weren't both still active and relatively good for the UK (and its government), would be very damaging.

    Until someone points out we were merely days away from having an India type situation here.

    Remember on December 14th the Government was threatening Greenwich council to keep schools open days before London went into a second lockdown.

    Even then it was obvious was the situation was going to be...

    The thing with exponential growth is that by the time you know you have a problem, the problem is already out of your control.

    14 December was before we knew what the Kent variant meant that was only told to the Government just before Christmas and they acted within 24 hours of that remember?

    And we didn't have an India type situation here, that was prevented.

    So . . . nul points.
    Nice try, but no.

    By mid November, it was clear that something was going wrong in Kent; cases weren't falling the same way they were elsewhere, even though we were all in the November semi-lockdown.

    The degree of reopening in December, and the delay to the post-Christmas lockdown were both deadly gambles that failed. And the odds weren't just misjudged with hindsight; they were obvious fails with a bit of foresight and a bit of understanding of exponential growth.
    Deaths had been growing exponentially since the start of September to the October sort of lockdown.

    We were incredibly, blindingly, obviously in an exponential growth situation.
    Which is why restrictions like the Rule of 6, Tiers etc were introduced.

    Should we implement a draconian lockdown and shred people's civil liberties the second we enter exponential growth without having anything in between? With zero risk to the NHS being overwhelmed at the time?

    Honestly some extremist zealots lose all sense of proportionality.
  • Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.

    Can we just clarify a point

    I heard this morning that the allegation on the front of the mail was not from Cummings, but another source with fingers pointing at Gove

    It is rather important to confirm who has made this allegation

    And you jump on every little rumour if you think it will damage Boris but the ESL one is surreal.

    Boris condemned it immediately and went on the media to say so, led the government's response by appointing Tracey Crouch to head up the fan based review, and Ed Woodward himself completely denied he had discussed the ESL with Boris
    Gove and Cummings are a gestalt entity. Cummings wants to destroy Johnson, Gove wants to be Prime Minister. Besides, the Heil doesn't specify where the quotes were leaked from. That Gove was in the room isn't a surprise - Cummings also would have been. So you cannot state it wasn't Cummings.

    As for the ESL, its very simple. Woodward gets the green light from a Downing Street meeting. Woodward and co announce the ESL. Fans go apeshit. Johnson reverse-rats and announces all kinds of threats that everyone knew would not happen (a "legislative bomb").

    Johnson can only hide behind his chief of staff if he fires him for such an egregious error of speaking with the authority of the PM directly contrary to his views. Has the CoS been fired? No.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    edited April 2021
    Phil said:

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    The fact Cummings is saying he recorded confidential meetings seems bizarre - highly illegal but also gives an indication of how he was running/supporting the place. No wonder civil servants loathed him
    Is it actually illegal?

    (I have no idea - hence the question!)
    Nope - I endeavour to record meetings so I can double check things if required.

    one of the note taking apps I use really likes it as it allows you to listen to what was said as you wrote the text.

    I suspect that Cummings uses something very similar.

    I also find that the only people who dislike the idea know they are two faced so it's a great way of finding out before the meeting begins how detailed my notes need to be.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    IanB2 said:

    mickydroy said:

    I think this Hartlepool election couldn't come at a better time for the Tories, I backed them some weeks ago to win this, but I do believe this is a high water mark for them, the only way is down from here, whether they can hold on to enough support at the next GE is another matter, again I think they will, just. This is when it starts getting interesting, the volatile nature of the electorate, I am sure means they are in for a dramatic collapse of support, some of the blue supporters on here are in for a nasty shock, if they think the tories will rule for another twenty years, make the most of these coming elections, time is ticking

    The immediate aftermath of the unlocking will see a mini spending boom and good moods as people are allowed to travel and eat inside restaurants again. After that, all of the news is likely to be bad.
    Do you mean bad economic news?

    I cant see that happening for 5 years at least.

    We will have a boom.
  • eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.

    My postal vote arrived last Thursday - if Hartlepool postal votes went out at the same time that may or may not be a factor.

    Equally I suspect Boris's stupid comments won't be as significant as the fact the council currently getting least "Teesside bribe" money is Hartlepool.

    Postal votes (for pre-election applications) were mailed out by most councils early last week. But my rule of thumb is that a quarter are returned instantly, a quarter during the remaining weeks of the campaign, a quarter at the last minute (including an increasing number taken to polling stations) and the last quarter not returned at all. So the suggestions you often see that news comes "too late" for postal voters is overstating the case.
    That was why I said it may or may not be a factor.

    Probably a bigger one is that with Labour giving up on Jess (as she is out of action with Covid) there is time for labour canvassers to focus on Hartlepool were they wanting to do so.

    I still don't think Labour will keep the seat but there are reasons why they might - I thinking working on the odds being 50/50 and betting on whoever is value makes sense.
    I really really wanted to be wrong and for Paul to win the by-election. There may be hope now.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.

    Can we just clarify a point

    I heard this morning that the allegation on the front of the mail was not from Cummings, but another source with fingers pointing at Gove

    It is rather important to confirm who has made this allegation

    And you jump on every little rumour if you think it will damage Boris but the ESL one is surreal.

    Boris condemned it immediately and went on the media to say so, led the government's response by appointing Tracey Crouch to head up the fan based review, and Ed Woodward himself completely denied he had discussed the ESL with Boris
    The Liar condemned it immediately....so thats all right then.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Phil said:

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    The fact Cummings is saying he recorded confidential meetings seems bizarre - highly illegal but also gives an indication of how he was running/supporting the place. No wonder civil servants loathed him
    Is it actually illegal?

    (I have no idea - hence the question!)
    With my GDPR head on - you need consent from those in the meeting/discussion to use recordings (being clear about the intention it was going to be used for). It couldn’t be used in court I believe..

    The meetings could have been highly confidential for what it’s worth - national secrets / military intelligence etc. Just seems a bizarre thing to admit doing
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    Looks like another Consignia to me.
    Kinda, I understand why they need a name change, as no one wants a standard life, they want an awesome fantastic life, but this is taking the piss.
    Would you put your savings with a company called 'fantastic life'? Sounds like some sort of dodgy diet supplement to me.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,112
    Andy_JS said:

    "About half a million more people in England are being invited to book their Covid-19 jab from Monday, as the vaccine rollout opens to 44-year-olds. Two-thirds of the previous age group - 45 to 49-year-olds - have received their first dose. The NHS said it would set out when 40 to 43-year-olds would be able to book appointments "in the coming days", as supply allows."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56880376

    Starting to ramp up the prep for a shift back from first doses?

    Half a million is one day.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    Looks like another Consignia to me.
    Kinda, I understand why they need a name change, as no one wants a standard life, they want an awesome fantastic life, but this is taking the piss.
    It's a very 2010 branding approach - remove some vowels as they are the only domain names left.
    At least they remembered to register abrdn.com - many a rebranding exercise registered only a local domain and was surprised when similar names on other TLDs quickly became adult entertainment.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited April 2021
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons.
    No, she doesn't. Is there a source for that claim?

    https://news.sky.com/story/ex-post-office-chief-vennells-quits-morrisons-and-dunelm-boards-12287211
    I was the one that broke the news here of her resignations. Which reached the BBC between my two posts.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    eek said:

    Phil said:

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    The fact Cummings is saying he recorded confidential meetings seems bizarre - highly illegal but also gives an indication of how he was running/supporting the place. No wonder civil servants loathed him
    Is it actually illegal?

    (I have no idea - hence the question!)
    Nope - I endeavour to record meetings so I can double check things if required.

    one of the note taking apps I use really likes it as it allows you to listen to what was said as you wrote the text.

    I suspect that Cummings uses something very similar.

    I also find that the only people who dislike the idea know they are two faced so it's a great way of finding out before the meeting begins how detailed my notes need to be.
    We’ve all worked with someone, who follows up a meeting with their own email version of what was ‘agreed’.
  • Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.

    Can we just clarify a point

    I heard this morning that the allegation on the front of the mail was not from Cummings, but another source with fingers pointing at Gove

    It is rather important to confirm who has made this allegation

    And you jump on every little rumour if you think it will damage Boris but the ESL one is surreal.

    Boris condemned it immediately and went on the media to say so, led the government's response by appointing Tracey Crouch to head up the fan based review, and Ed Woodward himself completely denied he had discussed the ESL with Boris
    The Liar condemned it immediately....so thats all right then.
    With respect that is not the answer to the question which is a genuine one
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.

    Can we just clarify a point

    I heard this morning that the allegation on the front of the mail was not from Cummings, but another source with fingers pointing at Gove

    It is rather important to confirm who has made this allegation

    And you jump on every little rumour if you think it will damage Boris but the ESL one is surreal.

    Boris condemned it immediately and went on the media to say so, led the government's response by appointing Tracey Crouch to head up the fan based review, and Ed Woodward himself completely denied he had discussed the ESL with Boris
    Gove and Cummings are a gestalt entity. Cummings wants to destroy Johnson, Gove wants to be Prime Minister. Besides, the Heil doesn't specify where the quotes were leaked from. That Gove was in the room isn't a surprise - Cummings also would have been. So you cannot state it wasn't Cummings.

    As for the ESL, its very simple. Woodward gets the green light from a Downing Street meeting. Woodward and co announce the ESL. Fans go apeshit. Johnson reverse-rats and announces all kinds of threats that everyone knew would not happen (a "legislative bomb").

    Johnson can only hide behind his chief of staff if he fires him for such an egregious error of speaking with the authority of the PM directly contrary to his views. Has the CoS been fired? No.
    I don't think the ESL people got approval from No 10. I suspect at best it would be a positive tone - which as you can tell instantly feel apart when No 10 saw the actual reaction.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited April 2021
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Phil said:

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    The fact Cummings is saying he recorded confidential meetings seems bizarre - highly illegal but also gives an indication of how he was running/supporting the place. No wonder civil servants loathed him
    Is it actually illegal?

    (I have no idea - hence the question!)
    Nope - I endeavour to record meetings so I can double check things if required.

    one of the note taking apps I use really likes it as it allows you to listen to what was said as you wrote the text.

    I suspect that Cummings uses something very similar.

    I also find that the only people who dislike the idea know they are two faced so it's a great way of finding out before the meeting begins how detailed my notes need to be.
    We’ve all worked with someone, who follows up a meeting with their own email version of what was ‘agreed’.
    They're called the minutes.

    It is much easier to challenge the minutes of council meetings now that they are recorded on Zoom!
  • The Tory PR unit is out in force this morning which is a sign that I need to go to work! Bye
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,112
    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons. I rather suspect she is starting to realise that the calls for her to be prosecuted and stripped of her honour, coming from MPs and members of the Lords, might actually come to something.
    How would she apologise without affecting the live case?

    (No idea how that relates to legal restrictions.)
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    AIUI F*ck Business that was a single source rumour, never substantiated, from a source within the EU negotiating team, repeated endlessly like members of the Natural Law Party reiterating their belief in Health Policy by Yogic Flying.

    I'd love to hear a firmer source for that if you have one.

    A good time to drop anti-Brexit campaign memes?
    The quote about coitus with business, was in reference to two or three high-profile pro-remain campaign groups, who were making nuisances of themselves during the Brexit negotiations.
    No it fecking wasn't, I know someone who was there when Boris Johnson said it. It was about companies, not Pro Remain groups.

    I'd also like to remind you that Boris Johnson refused to deny he had said it on several occasions.

    Boris Johnson has refused to deny claims he used an expletive when asked about business concerns about Brexit.

    The foreign secretary is reported to have used the swear word at a diplomatic gathering last week.

    Asked about this in the Commons, he said he may have "expressed scepticism about some of the views of those who profess to speak up for business".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44618154
    He did indeed say the words attributed to him - but the missing context is that it was in reference to the campaign groups trying to overturn government policy, rather than to businesses in general.
    No it wasn't, he was asked about Nissan, BMW, and a few other companies, and he said 'Fuck business'.

    I know someone who heard it first hand, the post hoc bullshit that it was about Remain Groups was created by James Roscoe, don't fall for the bullshit.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Events, dear boy, events!

    The Tories *should* win Pools. Should. However, with the press mood swinging pretty firmly, I wonder if external factors will come into play.

    LOCAL FACTORS: Collapse of Labour across Teesside, Labour civil war in Hartlepool, Brexit, Dr Paul being an arch-remainer, Dr Paul being at best disingenuous over the hospital, Tory Mayor to sweep re-election, Tory PCC likely to win both on the same day as the byelection, Tory cash flowing into seats with new Tory MPs so time for Pools to get its own bribe money.

    But...

    NATIONAL FACTORS:
    1. Let the Bodies Pile High. I have been making this point for ages that Liar had let tens of thousands die as an act of government policy. Now it is on the front page of the Hate Mail and apparently Cummings has audio recordings to prove it. The Mail will pile on this extensively, it will be almost constant revelations until Cummings rocks up to the committee with the hard evidence.
    2. Brexit isn't exactly working. Interesting piece from Cornish fishermen in the Grauniad directly quoting betrayed Tories no longer voting Tory
    3. ESL-gate. Despite Leon's frothing about Boris saving Football, it appears that he had green-lit the ESL and then lied about it. I expect more will come out on that front - especially if the bill for the English clubs piles up as is being threatened.

    So who knows where this goes. I described it as a "nailed on Tory win" and had it been last Thursday I think it would have been. A week on Thursday? A toss-up.

    Final point. Don't take the lack of Tory candidates as being indicative of a lack of Tory activists. There is no point the Tories running candidates against Tory independents and potentially letting Labour back in. They flood target seats with activists from all over - the one and only time a Tory knocked on my Thornaby door they had been brought up from Surrey. The same was true in 2017 and 2015.

    Can we just clarify a point

    I heard this morning that the allegation on the front of the mail was not from Cummings, but another source with fingers pointing at Gove

    It is rather important to confirm who has made this allegation

    And you jump on every little rumour if you think it will damage Boris but the ESL one is surreal.

    Boris condemned it immediately and went on the media to say so, led the government's response by appointing Tracey Crouch to head up the fan based review, and Ed Woodward himself completely denied he had discussed the ESL with Boris
    The Liar condemned it immediately....so thats all right then.
    With respect that is not the answer to the question which is a genuine one
    I was being Ironic.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    Looks like another Consignia to me.
    Kinda, I understand why they need a name change, as no one wants a standard life, they want an awesome fantastic life, but this is taking the piss.
    Would you put your savings with a company called 'fantastic life'? Sounds like some sort of dodgy diet supplement to me.
    Premier Life works for me.
  • Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    They should have gone for "a-b glöbâl".

    --AS
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Ladbrokes: 3/1 for Boris Johnson to be replaced as PM this year. https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1386587610970198016/photo/1
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    They should have gone for "a-b glöbâl".

    --AS
    Aaben Dazs
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    edited April 2021
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Phil said:

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    The fact Cummings is saying he recorded confidential meetings seems bizarre - highly illegal but also gives an indication of how he was running/supporting the place. No wonder civil servants loathed him
    Is it actually illegal?

    (I have no idea - hence the question!)
    Nope - I endeavour to record meetings so I can double check things if required.

    one of the note taking apps I use really likes it as it allows you to listen to what was said as you wrote the text.

    I suspect that Cummings uses something very similar.

    I also find that the only people who dislike the idea know they are two faced so it's a great way of finding out before the meeting begins how detailed my notes need to be.
    We’ve all worked with someone, who follows up a meeting with their own email version of what was ‘agreed’.
    They're called the minutes. It is much easier to challenge the minutes of council meetings now that they are recorded on Zoom!
    Not all meetings are minuted - but you really should have someone making notes on what was decided so actions are recorded.

    Equally it's often the case that the devil is in the detail and I've had problems where agreements were reached but the final minutes (released say 2 days before the next meeting 3 months later) bore little relationship to what was agreed in the meeting.

    In those circumstances (it was relating to what ended up being a £100,000 tribunal claim) having the accurate information to confirm what was actually decided makes perfect sense (and I didn't want to be personally liable)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited April 2021
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons. I rather suspect she is starting to realise that the calls for her to be prosecuted and stripped of her honour, coming from MPs and members of the Lords, might actually come to something.
    How would she apologise without affecting the live case?

    (No idea how that relates to legal restrictions.)
    It's a fair point that acting earlier might have been seen as affecting the case. But the outcome of the case was never really in doubt, and hanging on to all her positions for so long was very clearly in her self interest.

    The BBC radio documentary on the Post Office Scandal is well worth a listen. It was clear that Vennells put huge pressure on her team to give her the answers she wanted (emails show she said things like "I need to be able to say that the system data is reliable"), rather than making any genuine attempt to investigate, so it was very difficult for anyone lower down in the organisation to step up and admit the source and scale of the problem. For that alone, she carries a lot of responsibilty.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    Scott_xP said:

    Ladbrokes: 3/1 for Boris Johnson to be replaced as PM this year. https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1386587610970198016/photo/1

    Bit early to start the Shad's Xmas fund, but there you have it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,112
    edited April 2021
    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Politico.com - U.S. pledges medical aid for India to combat surge
    America also intends to pay for an expansion of manufacturing capability for the vaccine manufacturer in India.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/25/us-pledges-medical-aid-for-india-to-combat-surge-484584

    What on earth is the USA doing with it's AZ stock. Should donate it to India tbh
    Emergent Biosciences is sitting on 150 MILLION doses of AZ and J&J that are currently unusable because their Baltimore factory has not been approved by the FDA.
    Wasn’t it a factory in Baltimore that wrecked a whole batch of J&J by supplying a contaminated ingredient?
    They were making both AZ and J&J, and a staff members put an AZ ingredient into the J&J iirc.

    Though the mismanagement was far wider, and the whole thing will take a long time to regularize.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/21/johnson-johnson-vaccine-coronavirus-fda

    Vaccines may be OK though.
    https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/health-canada-finds-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccines-baltimore-plant-safe-high-2021-04-26/
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,722

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    Has to be a delayed April Fool.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977

    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    Neither is BoZo
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Mr. Eagles, pretty good name idea.

    But you didn't spend six months working up a £400,000 bill, so it'll never be adopted.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,112
    Brains Trust:

    Is there a UK phrase corresponding to the US "due process"?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    MattW said:

    Brains Trust:

    Is there a UK phrase corresponding to the US "due process"?

    doing things properly
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons. I rather suspect she is starting to realise that the calls for her to be prosecuted and stripped of her honour, coming from MPs and members of the Lords, might actually come to something.
    How would she apologise without affecting the live case?

    (No idea how that relates to legal restrictions.)
    It's a fair point that acting earlier might have been seen as affecting the case. But the outcome of the case was never really in doubt, and hanging on to all her positions for so long was very clearly in her self interest.

    The BBC radio documentary on the Post Office Scandal is well worth a listen. It was clear that Vennells put huge pressure on her team to give her the answers she wanted (emails show she said things like "I need to be able to say that the system data is reliable"), rather than making any genuine attempt to investigate, so it was very difficult for anyone lower down in the organisation to step up and admit the source and scale of the problem. For that alone, she carries a lot of responsibilty.
    It does sound like that Vennells didn't attempt to process an even handed investigation here. Mind you, this is not dissimilar to the way the Police work. They get someone in the frame, find (or manufacture) evidence to support their view and suppress any contradictory evidence. The CPS then ignore the rights and wrongs are just concerend with the chances of conviction.
  • MattW said:

    Brains Trust:

    Is there a UK phrase corresponding to the US "due process"?

    The UK phrase is due process.

    See Regina v. Paty for further details.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_xP said:

    Ladbrokes: 3/1 for Boris Johnson to be replaced as PM this year. https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1386587610970198016/photo/1

    My Boris to leave April 2021-June 2021 is looking a lot less red than when I placed it. I may cash out now and eat the much smaller loss.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/26/ex-post-office-head-apologises-to-workers-after-convictions-quashed

    Paula Vennells Apologises.

    She does have some decency.

    I’d still like to see her and others prosecuted for, appropriately, theft and false accounting against the subpostmasters.

    It is hard to see this as decency when she has been so reticent until now. And she still hangs onto well paid positions at Dunelm and Morrisons. I rather suspect she is starting to realise that the calls for her to be prosecuted and stripped of her honour, coming from MPs and members of the Lords, might actually come to something.
    How would she apologise without affecting the live case?

    (No idea how that relates to legal restrictions.)
    It's a fair point that acting earlier might have been seen as affecting the case. But the outcome of the case was never really in doubt, and hanging on to all her positions for so long was very clearly in her self interest.

    The BBC radio documentary on the Post Office Scandal is well worth a listen. It was clear that Vennells put huge pressure on her team to give her the answers she wanted (emails show she said things like "I need to be able to say that the system data is reliable"), rather than making any genuine attempt to investigate, so it was very difficult for anyone lower down in the organisation to step up and admit the source and scale of the problem. For that alone, she carries a lot of responsibilty.
    It does sound like that Vennells didn't attempt to process an even handed investigation here. Mind you, this is not dissimilar to the way the Police work. They get someone in the frame, find (or manufacture) evidence to support their view and suppress any contradictory evidence. The CPS then ignore the rights and wrongs are just concerend with the chances of conviction.
    She basically instructed her team to reassure her that everything was OK. And now relies on the defence that, at the time, no-one told her that anything was wrong.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    I've got a feeling the Tories will do ok where it matters (mayoralities and key seats etc) but disappoint elsewhere next week.

    The ultra green stuff - which my local election leaflets are all peppered with - isn't going down well with the base.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Phil said:

    nico679 said:

    It wouldn’t be a surprise if Bozo lashed out and said what’s being reported . Last year we had the reported Operation Last Gasp and previously Fxck Business.

    Not sure why he decided to pick a fight with Cummings who has always been a vindictive nasty individual . The comments are believable in a way they wouldn’t have been with a different PM .

    The fact Cummings is saying he recorded confidential meetings seems bizarre - highly illegal but also gives an indication of how he was running/supporting the place. No wonder civil servants loathed him
    Is it actually illegal?

    (I have no idea - hence the question!)
    Nope - I endeavour to record meetings so I can double check things if required.

    one of the note taking apps I use really likes it as it allows you to listen to what was said as you wrote the text.

    I suspect that Cummings uses something very similar.

    I also find that the only people who dislike the idea know they are two faced so it's a great way of finding out before the meeting begins how detailed my notes need to be.
    We’ve all worked with someone, who follows up a meeting with their own email version of what was ‘agreed’.
    Were it on instant follow-up I wouldn't care, you can handle that - it was ministry of truth scale rewriting of minutes then published at the last minute to avoid detailed reading that was the issue

    the person involved was very similar to Paula Vennells but trying to cover up her screw ups rather than her underlings.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ladbrokes: 3/1 for Boris Johnson to be replaced as PM this year. https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1386587610970198016/photo/1

    My Boris to leave April 2021-June 2021 is looking a lot less red than when I placed it. I may cash out now and eat the much smaller loss.
    Interestingly the odds on Truss as next PM have come in considerably, whereas those on Truss as next Tory leader haven't moved at all.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    eek said:

    Is that picture Hartlepool? I have never been there but must admit that is not at all how I imagined it from the descriptions over the years.

    From memory it's their Maritime museum which is now (due to austerity cost cutting but a lot of luck) the Nation Museum of the Royal Navy - Hartlepool https://www.nmrn.org.uk/our-museums/national-museum-royal-navy-hartlepool

    That and the Headland is nice but don't look in the opposite direction and even fans of 1960s brutalist architecture won't like the town centre.
    It's the RN Museum. I once gave a presentation on Sea Harrier ops there. All ribald yarns of runs ashore in exotic ports were strictly haram so the audience had to make do with the mostly true story of how we once got 4 simulated AIM-120 kills against Marham wing Tornados in under 2 seconds.

    What you can't see in the picture is the other side of it. Across the street there is a reeking Burger King full of smacked up chavs and an Asda where benzoed out teenage mothers with Croydon facelifts push their little shit machines around in prams.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
  • IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,722

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    I think they gave them to Yorkshire folk...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    Ooh, a rare chance to agree with PB's warrior on woke!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ladbrokes: 3/1 for Boris Johnson to be replaced as PM this year. https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1386587610970198016/photo/1

    My Boris to leave April 2021-June 2021 is looking a lot less red than when I placed it. I may cash out now and eat the much smaller loss.
    Conversely, the unrealized profit on my long at 1.8 on 'Johnson to still be PM on 1st July 2022' is suddenly just one half of what it was.
    I might hold my nerve or I might cover back my stake. Not sure.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    IanB2 said:

    Absolutely outstanding piece by Tim Stanley this morning:



    Cummings, the man who played by his own rules, can't throw stones at Boris

    We may soon discover that the problem was not with this PM in particular, but the irreconcilability of Domism with British conservatism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/25/cummings-vs-boris-clash-wonky-oddness-tory-charisma/


    Contains what must be the line of the day without doubt:

    "for Dom to resurface now as a champion for disease control is like Richard Nixon resigning over Watergate only to retrain as a burglar alarm salesman."


    Good to read someone who actually knows what a conservative is supposed to be. Cummings isn't one of them.

    The Downing Street media operation is clearly swinging into gear.

    I still maintain the object of drawing out Cummings now is to get the retaliation in beforehand in an attempt to draw the sting out of what would otherwise have been an explosive appearance at the select committee.
    I think you are spot on
    Cummings has made the same mistake that Mercer did, of being too excited to #savethesurprise
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ladbrokes: 3/1 for Boris Johnson to be replaced as PM this year. https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1386587610970198016/photo/1

    My Boris to leave April 2021-June 2021 is looking a lot less red than when I placed it. I may cash out now and eat the much smaller loss.
    Interestingly the odds on Truss as next PM have come in considerably, whereas those on Truss as next Tory leader haven't moved at all.
    She's not going to (try to) go back to being a LibDem is she?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    Jesus fecking Christ, i bet they paid a six or seven figure amount to consultants to come up with this name change.

    Intention to Change Name - Standard Life Aberdeen plc to become Abrdn plc

    Standard Life Aberdeen plc ("the Company") today announces its intention to change its name to "Abrdn plc". The new Abrdn name (pronounced "Aberdeen") will be part of a modern, agile, digitally-enabled brand that will also be used for all the Company's client-facing businesses globally.

    The new brand identity marks the next stage in the reshaping of the business and future-focused growth strategy. The Company is focused on three interrelated growth vectors: global asset management (Investments), technology platforms for UK financial advisers and their customers (Adviser), and UK savings and wealth (Personal).

    The rebranding roll-out process for the new name and associated visual identity will begin in the summer and progress through 2021, alongside implementation of a full stakeholder engagement plan to manage the transition.

    Stephen Bird, Chief Executive, said:

    "Our new brand Abrdn builds on our heritage and is modern, dynamic and, most importantly, engaging for all of our client and customer channels. It is a highly-differentiated brand that will create unity across the business, replacing five different brand names that have each been operating independently. Our new name reflects the clarity of focus that the leadership team are bringing to the business as we seek to deliver sustainable growth."

    A subsequent announcement will be made when the Company's name change becomes effective with a revised stock ticker. This is expected to take place prior to the publication of the Company's half year results in August 2021. Until such an announcement is made, trading will continue under the existing ticker. No action is required on the part of any equity holders with respect to their rights as an equity holder.

    26 April 2021

    Enquiries:


    Institutional Equity Investors
    Catherine Nash +44 (0) 7798 518 657
    Media
    Andrea Ward +44 (0) 7876 178 696
    Edelman Smithfield
    Iain Dey +44 (0) 7976 295 906
    Latika Shah +44 (0) 7950 671 948

    If you were wondering what happened to all the e's in Aberdeen - they took them. Then partied....
    Brands love doing this nonsense. Ernst & Young thought it was very clever to shorten to EY, and Liverpool Victoria to LVE - for a "Lve life" meme.

    It makes you want to vomit, doesn't it?
    Ernst & Young were trying to move away from being a boring auditor into consultancy, Liverpool Victoria likewise from being mutual life assurance firm into more general insurance...

    in both cases there were reasonable reasons for doing so and in the case of EY probably some embarrassing screw ups.
This discussion has been closed.