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American polls may now need to fundamentally change their poll weightings – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,191
    UK R

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  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    I don't think there's been any political bust-up as funny as this since the Jan 2010 'snow plot' against Gordon Brown.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited April 2021
    Breaking: Cummings hits back at government in his blog. Denies responsibility for the leak. Says Johnson used party donor money to refurbish number ten and says this is foolish, possibly illegal. Concludes that the PM and his office has fallen so far beneath the standards and integrity the public expects.

    The PM stopped speaking to me about this matter in 2020 as I told him I thought his plans to have donors secretly pay for the renovation were unethical, foolish, possibly illegal and almost certainly broke the rules on proper disclosure of political donations if conducted in the way he intended. I refused to help him organise these payments.

    It is sad to see the PM and his office fall so far below the standards of competence and integrity the country deserves.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,191
    UK vaccinations

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,191
    CFR

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  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    R4 PM having fun with Dom's blog post...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046

    Hell hath no fury.....

    https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/

    The Prime Minister’s DOC has also made accusations regarding me and leaks concerning the PM’s renovation of his flat. The PM stopped speaking to me about this matter in 2020 as I told him I thought his plans to have donors secretly pay for the renovation were unethical, foolish, possibly illegal and almost certainly broke the rules on proper disclosure of political donations if conducted in the way he intended. I refused to help him organise these payments. My knowledge about them is therefore limited. I would be happy to tell the Cabinet Secretary or Electoral Commission what I know concerning this matter.

    Why would anyone have ever had Cummings as an adviser? Whether or not he had some useful ideas and the drive to achieve them, he thinks so much of himself that he would always be a ticking time bomb, and not inclined to let himself be sidelined without consequence.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    On a more serious note, the CDC briefing about (rare) blood-clots associated with the J&J vaccine is showing a very similar profile to the AZ cases:

    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1385631607151808518
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    Quincel said:

    FFS...

    Six Extinction Rebellion protesters have been cleared of causing criminal damage, despite jurors being told by the judge there was no defence in law.

    With the exception of Mr Saunders - who claimed he honestly believed Shell's employees and shareholders would have consented to the damage he caused

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-56853979

    The take away, smashing up a building isn't a criminal offense if you claim you were doing so to save the planet.

    I think this is a rubbish decision by the jury, but on a point of principle I do think jury nullification is an option that they need to have as a backstop for more deserving cases.

    It's also undeniably a bit amusing that one defendant already pled guilty and then watched his comrades get away with it despite having no defence at all.
    Not sure I understand the judge's remark that it is an unusual case. It only seems unusual in the jury's decision, albeit it's not unheard of historically.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    I think you misunderstand - many Green are New Puritans.

    To them a world where the ordinary people will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars (and remain very expensive), eat less meat and completely renovate their homes at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers - that is what they *want*
    Indeed, and the Conservatives will lose votes (including mine) if Alok Sharma and Kwasi Kwarteng start virtue-signalling about veganism.

    They simply don't understand - I will do virtually anything for climate change but ditching meat is simply not something I will ever be prepared to do and nor will millions of others.

    They need sustainable technological solutions to mixed and traditional forms of agriculture that people can get behind, or they'll be told to piss off.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    @Pulpstar you're the same age as me! How come you've got your vac today? Luck? Pre-existing condition?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,808

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    I think you misunderstand - many Green are New Puritans.

    To them a world where the ordinary people will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars (and remain very expensive), eat less meat and completely renovate their homes at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers - that is what they *want*
    Indeed, and the Conservatives will lose votes (including mine) if Alok Sharma and Kwasi Kwarteng start virtue-signalling about veganism.

    They simply don't understand - I will do virtually anything for climate change but ditching meat is simply not something I will ever be prepared to do and nor will millions of others.

    They need sustainable technological solutions to mixed and traditional forms of agriculture that people can get behind, or they'll be told to piss off.
    "VOTE BLUE - GO VEGAN!"
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,577
    The US seems to have reached peak demand. On present trends, we'll overtake their vaccination rate again soon.

    image
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601
    edited April 2021
    Thoughts and prayers for the Boris Johnson fanbois and fangirls who so comprehensively defended Dominic Cummings after his sojourn to Bernard Castle saying he was a top bloke, beyond reproach.

    Especially Suella Braverman.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    dixiedean said:

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking: Cummings hits back at government in his blog. Denies responsibility for the leak. Says Johnson used party donor money to refurbish number ten and says this is foolish, possibly illegal. Concludes that the PM and his office has fallen so far beneath the standards and integrity the public expects.

    Some, by contrast, may feel the PM has shown exactly the integrity they expected.
    Didn't someone say earlier Boris had apparently now paid for it himself? Raising the classic question of why the heck he didn't just do that in the first place, which I struggle to see a satisfactory answer to - either it was all above board in which case why pay for it now, or it was not and his paying it back doesn't explain why he tried to get someone else to pay in the first place?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    ping said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    “they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers”

    That is what is going to be necessary, though. Moving from the century of oil & gas to a zero-carbon century is going to require serious sacrifices.

    May as well be honest about it. People see through the political framing bullshit, and then get angry.

    No it is not all what is going to be necessary (the electric car bit is) - and if it is necessary then it won't happen. Do you think the Chinese are going to choose not to fly just because we tell people they're killing pandas if they fly?

    The solution, the only solution that will work is clean technologies.

    Saying don't use power will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is some clean and affordable power, use this instead of coal" people will listen to.

    Saying don't fly will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is a newly designed clean and affordable plane, use this instead of jet fuel" people will listen to.

    Saying "don't eat meat" will not work. People won't listen to you. Full stop, I see no alternative to this one, the line is drawn here. Maybe find a way to offset against it because meat is happening.
    Artificial meat will be a mainstream, cheap product inside a decade.
    Will believe it when I see it frankly. Meat is not just about taste but texture as well. From all reports I have seen from people that have tried what is currently there it fails at both
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Mr Herdson observes:

    This would be a damaging claim if Boris Johnson didn't have a reputation for "dishonesty, lying and unethical behaviour" before he became PM. It's priced in unless there's genuinely some innocent victim here, and I don't see one.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1385631436145844230?s=20
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046

    Thoughts and prayers for the Boris Johnson fanbois and fangirls who so comprehensively defendedDominic Cummings after his sojourn to Bernard Castle saying he was a top bloke, beyond reproach.

    Especially Suella Braverman.

    Remember all those supposed idiots and fools Trump fired, who he had previously praised to the heavens? Good times.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,076

    ping said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    “they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers”

    That is what is going to be necessary, though. Moving from the century of oil & gas to a zero-carbon century is going to require serious sacrifices.

    May as well be honest about it. People see through the political framing bullshit, and then get angry.

    No it is not all what is going to be necessary (the electric car bit is) - and if it is necessary then it won't happen. Do you think the Chinese are going to choose not to fly just because we tell people they're killing pandas if they fly?

    The solution, the only solution that will work is clean technologies.

    Saying don't use power will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is some clean and affordable power, use this instead of coal" people will listen to.

    Saying don't fly will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is a newly designed clean and affordable plane, use this instead of jet fuel" people will listen to.

    Saying "don't eat meat" will not work. People won't listen to you. Full stop, I see no alternative to this one, the line is drawn here. Maybe find a way to offset against it because meat is happening.
    Artificial meat will be a mainstream, cheap product inside a decade.
    An interesting thought. Can artificial meat taste like roast rib of beef? Or will it taste more like a Quorn veggie sausage?
    There was one brand of veggie beef pie that tasted so much like the real thing I couldn't eat it.

    Good evening, everyone.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046

    I cannot believe anyone is getting excited about this Cummings intervention. It will have no impact on anything. Johnson has so lowered the bar in terms of probity, honesty and integrity that there is almost nothing he can do that is not priced in. The only way this will get any legs is if Tory MPs start to demand answers. Reader: they won't.

    I think it is more as Mr Nabavi says, funny, rather than it will actually have an impact.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399

    I think there's a very significant element in the "Green" movement who will be very disappointed when we reach Net Zero to have nothing further to berate us for.

    No doubt they'll find some other reason instead of carbon that we need to abolish capitalism, stop consumption and basically go back centuries for instead of carbon.

    Because its not really about the environment for some people.

    Yep.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    edited April 2021

    I cannot believe anyone is getting excited about this Cummings intervention. It will have no impact on anything. Johnson has so lowered the bar in terms of probity, honesty and integrity that there is almost nothing he can do that is not priced in. The only way this will get any legs is if Tory MPs start to demand answers. Reader: they won't.

    If ditching BoZo is the best way to head off the landslide of sleaze engulfing the party, Sir Graham Brady might be a busy boy
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    AnneJGP said:

    ping said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    “they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers”

    That is what is going to be necessary, though. Moving from the century of oil & gas to a zero-carbon century is going to require serious sacrifices.

    May as well be honest about it. People see through the political framing bullshit, and then get angry.

    No it is not all what is going to be necessary (the electric car bit is) - and if it is necessary then it won't happen. Do you think the Chinese are going to choose not to fly just because we tell people they're killing pandas if they fly?

    The solution, the only solution that will work is clean technologies.

    Saying don't use power will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is some clean and affordable power, use this instead of coal" people will listen to.

    Saying don't fly will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is a newly designed clean and affordable plane, use this instead of jet fuel" people will listen to.

    Saying "don't eat meat" will not work. People won't listen to you. Full stop, I see no alternative to this one, the line is drawn here. Maybe find a way to offset against it because meat is happening.
    Artificial meat will be a mainstream, cheap product inside a decade.
    An interesting thought. Can artificial meat taste like roast rib of beef? Or will it taste more like a Quorn veggie sausage?
    There was one brand of veggie beef pie that tasted so much like the real thing I couldn't eat it.

    Good evening, everyone.
    An interesting take. There's many a tasty vegetarian meal, but I'd have assumed people eating a 'veggie beef pie' would want it to taste as much as possible like the real thing, otherwise they could just go for a veggie pie.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399

    ping said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    “they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers”

    That is what is going to be necessary, though. Moving from the century of oil & gas to a zero-carbon century is going to require serious sacrifices.

    May as well be honest about it. People see through the political framing bullshit, and then get angry.

    No it is not all what is going to be necessary (the electric car bit is) - and if it is necessary then it won't happen. Do you think the Chinese are going to choose not to fly just because we tell people they're killing pandas if they fly?

    The solution, the only solution that will work is clean technologies.

    Saying don't use power will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is some clean and affordable power, use this instead of coal" people will listen to.

    Saying don't fly will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is a newly designed clean and affordable plane, use this instead of jet fuel" people will listen to.

    Saying "don't eat meat" will not work. People won't listen to you. Full stop, I see no alternative to this one, the line is drawn here. Maybe find a way to offset against it because meat is happening.
    It also spikes my bullshit meter.

    The global human population is c.10 times higher than it was in 1750 (pre industrial era) and we probably eat 3 times as much meat per head as we did then - so a x30 factor increase. But, our technology and quality of livestock is also far far better so we get more bang for buck.

    Tells me eating meat twice a week at the very least should be sustainable indefinitely, and possibly more than that.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    Mr Herdson observes:

    This would be a damaging claim if Boris Johnson didn't have a reputation for "dishonesty, lying and unethical behaviour" before he became PM. It's priced in unless there's genuinely some innocent victim here, and I don't see one.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1385631436145844230?s=20

    Technically the average tax payer could be an innocent victim

    But the UK as a whole voted for Boris to be PM so that doesn't wash.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Scott_xP said:

    I cannot believe anyone is getting excited about this Cummings intervention. It will have no impact on anything. Johnson has so lowered the bar in terms of probity, honesty and integrity that there is almost nothing he can do that is not priced in. The only way this will get any legs is if Tory MPs start to demand answers. Reader: they won't.

    If ditching BoZo is the best way to head off the landslide of sleaze engulfing the party, Sir Graham Brady might be a busy boy

    The Tories are too invested in Johnson now. And he is liked by their voting demographic. He is going nowhere on the back of this. His future is tied to the strength of the post-pandemic recovery, nothing else. Though perhaps sleaze will be the excuse to oust him if that does not go well.

  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:

    Ladbrokes: 5/1 for Boris Johnson to be replaced as PM this year. https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1385630972016828420/photo/1

    Going to bet your house on it, are you? Let us know how it turns out.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977

    The Tories are too invested in Johnson now. And he is liked by their voting demographic.

    Their voting demographic apparently likes a philandering playboy.

    I am not sure it has been tested whether they like a venal incompetent.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    AnneJGP said:

    ping said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    “they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers”

    That is what is going to be necessary, though. Moving from the century of oil & gas to a zero-carbon century is going to require serious sacrifices.

    May as well be honest about it. People see through the political framing bullshit, and then get angry.

    No it is not all what is going to be necessary (the electric car bit is) - and if it is necessary then it won't happen. Do you think the Chinese are going to choose not to fly just because we tell people they're killing pandas if they fly?

    The solution, the only solution that will work is clean technologies.

    Saying don't use power will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is some clean and affordable power, use this instead of coal" people will listen to.

    Saying don't fly will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is a newly designed clean and affordable plane, use this instead of jet fuel" people will listen to.

    Saying "don't eat meat" will not work. People won't listen to you. Full stop, I see no alternative to this one, the line is drawn here. Maybe find a way to offset against it because meat is happening.
    Artificial meat will be a mainstream, cheap product inside a decade.
    An interesting thought. Can artificial meat taste like roast rib of beef? Or will it taste more like a Quorn veggie sausage?
    There was one brand of veggie beef pie that tasted so much like the real thing I couldn't eat it.

    Good evening, everyone.
    I've tried some of this food and it's mainly diabolical.

    I had a "cauliflower steak" for dinner which is, let's face it, just a slice of cauliflower dressed up.

    I woke up starving at 3am and had a massive bowl of crunchy nut cornflakes with gold top milk and toast.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pfizered up

    All the best people get Pfizer.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Pulpstar said:

    Pfizered up

    Don't go partying quite yet...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Scott_xP said:

    I cannot believe anyone is getting excited about this Cummings intervention. It will have no impact on anything. Johnson has so lowered the bar in terms of probity, honesty and integrity that there is almost nothing he can do that is not priced in. The only way this will get any legs is if Tory MPs start to demand answers. Reader: they won't.

    If ditching BoZo is the best way to head off the landslide of sleaze engulfing the party, Sir Graham Brady might be a busy boy
    They got rid of the sleaze king in 2016.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Why would you pick a petty vindictive fight with someone who a) has a PHD in petty vindictive fights; b) has absolutely nothing to lose and c) has a load of shit on you?
    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1385628585759756294
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2021

    I cannot believe anyone is getting excited about this Cummings intervention. It will have no impact on anything. Johnson has Blair so lowered the bar in terms of probity, honesty and integrity that there is almost nothing he any PM can do that is not priced in. The only way this will get any legs is if Tory MPs voters start to demand answers. Reader: they won't.

    FTFY.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    You need people to push issues hard, it really does help to make things happen. Fair enough if you want to argue, even if implausibly on occasion, that not enough has happened. But at a certain point denying that things are happening at all when they are can be counter productive. Why would many ordinary people, who are concerned about climate issues, do or support proposals if the past actions apparently didn't mean anything?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Now I am sad the press briefings were cancelled...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,883
    Let's hope Benedict Comberbatch's portrayal was accurate.

    ..........A dog with a bone who always gets his way.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207
    kle4 said:

    I cannot believe anyone is getting excited about this Cummings intervention. It will have no impact on anything. Johnson has so lowered the bar in terms of probity, honesty and integrity that there is almost nothing he can do that is not priced in. The only way this will get any legs is if Tory MPs start to demand answers. Reader: they won't.

    I think it is more as Mr Nabavi says, funny, rather than it will actually have an impact.
    In a different context, one might say a Westminster Bubble story.

    Bloody funny, but in terms of reaching the "let down by Boris" tipping point, Cummings and Mercer make it two down, several million to go.
  • Scott_xP said:

    I cannot believe anyone is getting excited about this Cummings intervention. It will have no impact on anything. Johnson has so lowered the bar in terms of probity, honesty and integrity that there is almost nothing he can do that is not priced in. The only way this will get any legs is if Tory MPs start to demand answers. Reader: they won't.

    If ditching BoZo is the best way to head off the landslide of sleaze engulfing the party, Sir Graham Brady might be a busy boy

    The Tories are too invested in Johnson now. And he is liked by their voting demographic. He is going nowhere on the back of this. His future is tied to the strength of the post-pandemic recovery, nothing else. Though perhaps sleaze will be the excuse to oust him if that does not go well.

    To be honest those now seeing Cummings as a threat to Boris is hope over expectation

    Cummings comprehensively trashed his own name in the public's perception
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    “they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers”

    That is what is going to be necessary, though. Moving from the century of oil & gas to a zero-carbon century is going to require serious sacrifices.

    May as well be honest about it. People see through the political framing bullshit, and then get angry.

    No it is not all what is going to be necessary (the electric car bit is) - and if it is necessary then it won't happen. Do you think the Chinese are going to choose not to fly just because we tell people they're killing pandas if they fly?

    The solution, the only solution that will work is clean technologies.

    Saying don't use power will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is some clean and affordable power, use this instead of coal" people will listen to.

    Saying don't fly will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is a newly designed clean and affordable plane, use this instead of jet fuel" people will listen to.

    Saying "don't eat meat" will not work. People won't listen to you. Full stop, I see no alternative to this one, the line is drawn here. Maybe find a way to offset against it because meat is happening.
    Artificial meat will be a mainstream, cheap product inside a decade.
    Will believe it when I see it frankly. Meat is not just about taste but texture as well. From all reports I have seen from people that have tried what is currently there it fails at both
    I wouldn't necessarily object to lab-grown meat. In theory, it should be more or less like the real thing - because it will be the real thing.

    However, I'd still expect there to be a market for organic, real meat too.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977

    Cummings comprehensively trashed his own name in the public's perception

    BoZo vouched for him
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    Pulpstar said:

    Pfizered up

    All the best people get Pfizer.
    My partner got Pfizer. I got Oxford. So....yes you're probably right :innocent:
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,158

    @Pulpstar you're the same age as me! How come you've got your vac today? Luck? Pre-existing condition?

    Surgery sent me a message. No pre existing. Luck I guess :)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    This is an interesting line from Rachel Reeves. Labour clearly think they've found the smoking gun. Or smoking wallpaper...

    Rachel Reeves: "Given we know it only takes a text from one of the Prime Minister’s chums to get a tax break, what might a discreet donation for a luxury refurbishment might get you?"

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1385638677389398016
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Good afternoon @NicolaSturgeon
    It may be just an oversight but I'm sure you would like to wish all your friends in England a Happy St. Georges Day.


    https://twitter.com/thegandydancer/status/1385573811228139521?s=20
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    And she fails to understand, or care, that Governments are made up of representatives of the people, and can't act unilaterally against the wishes of the people. If the electorate refuses to allow their tax money to be spent on solving a specific problem, then activists need to persuade the people, not the elected representatives.

    In other words, it's pretty clear she grew up in an EU country.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,158
    Someone born in 92 who had just been for a run been vaxxed here
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    kle4 said:

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    You need people to push issues hard, it really does help to make things happen. Fair enough if you want to argue, even if implausibly on occasion, that not enough has happened. But at a certain point denying that things are happening at all when they are can be counter productive. Why would many ordinary people, who are concerned about climate issues, do or support proposals if the past actions apparently didn't mean anything?
    The trouble is that the Climate Change Act (80% reduction by 2050) was passed in 2008, well before Greta came on the scene, and the net zero law in June 2019, which was only 10 months after she first appeared on the scene. And work for it was well underway even before then.

    I think it's an innocent pure Joan of Arc figurehead sort of thing going on: she appeals to those who are already pretty radical about it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    Pulpstar said:

    @Pulpstar you're the same age as me! How come you've got your vac today? Luck? Pre-existing condition?

    Surgery sent me a message. No pre existing. Luck I guess :)
    Lucky devil!

    Pleased for you though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046

    Good afternoon @NicolaSturgeon
    It may be just an oversight but I'm sure you would like to wish all your friends in England a Happy St. Georges Day.


    https://twitter.com/thegandydancer/status/1385573811228139521?s=20

    Oh that's just needy. I get she did it for the Welsh, but still.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Pulpstar said:

    Someone born in 92 who had just been for a run been vaxxed here

    Wow. I remember sitting on a polling station in Leyton for that year’s election. Meanwhile you were busy being born.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    You’re usually so prissy about childish name calling, I can hardly credit that you’re giving BJ a free pass on this.
    Not like you at al.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Good afternoon @NicolaSturgeon
    It may be just an oversight but I'm sure you would like to wish all your friends in England a Happy St. Georges Day.


    https://twitter.com/thegandydancer/status/1385573811228139521?s=20

    She already has wished all her friends in England a happy St. George’s day. She just doesn’t have any friends in England...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    edited April 2021

    kle4 said:

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    You need people to push issues hard, it really does help to make things happen. Fair enough if you want to argue, even if implausibly on occasion, that not enough has happened. But at a certain point denying that things are happening at all when they are can be counter productive. Why would many ordinary people, who are concerned about climate issues, do or support proposals if the past actions apparently didn't mean anything?
    The trouble is that the Climate Change Act (80% reduction by 2050) was passed in 2008, well before Greta came on the scene, and the net zero law in June 2019, which was only 10 months after she first appeared on the scene. And work for it was well underway even before then.

    I think it's an innocent pure Joan of Arc figurehead sort of thing going on: she appeals to those who are already pretty radical about it.
    They never seem to be pretty radical about Chinese carbon emissions.

    Just as those in the 1980s never seemed concerned about the Soviet Union draining the Aral Sea.

    Plus ca change ...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Many public health figures believe that the Covid strategy at the time was undermined by the government's vehement defence of Cummings and insistence he stayed in a job. Less than a year later No 10 and Cummings are apparently trying to destroy each other.
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1385640527450804228
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Without the Barnard Castle pack of lies, Cummo might have been taken more seriously as a champion of integrity
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046

    kle4 said:

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    You need people to push issues hard, it really does help to make things happen. Fair enough if you want to argue, even if implausibly on occasion, that not enough has happened. But at a certain point denying that things are happening at all when they are can be counter productive. Why would many ordinary people, who are concerned about climate issues, do or support proposals if the past actions apparently didn't mean anything?
    The trouble is that the Climate Change Act (80% reduction by 2050) was passed in 2008, well before Greta came on the scene, and the net zero law in June 2019, which was only 10 months after she first appeared on the scene. And work for it was well underway even before then.

    I think it's an innocent pure Joan of Arc figurehead sort of thing going on: she appeals to those who are already pretty radical about it.
    It's also true that even immediate actions can take a bit of time to show effect, so people may be wanting a more instant effect from their passionate campaigning.

    On Greta, see seems articulate enough to me and for whatever reason has struck a chord with plenty of people, but I also think that people in general have a fascination with youthful preaching/advocacy. Child campaigners (and yes she is an adult now but has been about for a few years), for better and worse, can get a lot of attention simply as a spectacle in addition to any actual merited worth.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859


    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    You’re usually so prissy about childish name calling, I can hardly credit that you’re giving BJ a free pass on this.
    Not like you at al.
    It’s not just amnesia, it’s ‘BG’ amnesia.....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Someone born in 92 who had just been for a run been vaxxed here

    Wow. I remember sitting on a polling station in Leyton for that year’s election. Meanwhile you were busy being born.
    No, that's someone he knows.

    I think Pulpy is 82.
  • kle4 said:

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    You need people to push issues hard, it really does help to make things happen. Fair enough if you want to argue, even if implausibly on occasion, that not enough has happened. But at a certain point denying that things are happening at all when they are can be counter productive. Why would many ordinary people, who are concerned about climate issues, do or support proposals if the past actions apparently didn't mean anything?
    The trouble is that the Climate Change Act (80% reduction by 2050) was passed in 2008, well before Greta came on the scene, and the net zero law in June 2019, which was only 10 months after she first appeared on the scene. And work for it was well underway even before then.

    I think it's an innocent pure Joan of Arc figurehead sort of thing going on: she appeals to those who are already pretty radical about it.
    If she's Joan of Arc then she's going to defeat us in a war?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    IanB2 said:

    Without the Barnard Castle pack of lies, Cummo might have been taken more seriously as a champion of integrity

    The luck of Boris again.

    Thatcher and Blair had similar.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    IanB2 said:

    Without the Barnard Castle pack of lies, Cummo might have been taken more seriously as a champion of integrity

    BoZo backed him to the hilt.

    Can't accuse him of terminological inexactitudes now
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    You need people to push issues hard, it really does help to make things happen. Fair enough if you want to argue, even if implausibly on occasion, that not enough has happened. But at a certain point denying that things are happening at all when they are can be counter productive. Why would many ordinary people, who are concerned about climate issues, do or support proposals if the past actions apparently didn't mean anything?
    The trouble is that the Climate Change Act (80% reduction by 2050) was passed in 2008, well before Greta came on the scene, and the net zero law in June 2019, which was only 10 months after she first appeared on the scene. And work for it was well underway even before then.

    I think it's an innocent pure Joan of Arc figurehead sort of thing going on: she appeals to those who are already pretty radical about it.
    It's also true that even immediate actions can take a bit of time to show effect, so people may be wanting a more instant effect from their passionate campaigning.

    On Greta, see seems articulate enough to me and for whatever reason has struck a chord with plenty of people, but I also think that people in general have a fascination with youthful preaching/advocacy. Child campaigners (and yes she is an adult now but has been about for a few years), for better and worse, can get a lot of attention simply as a spectacle in addition to any actual merited worth.
    The question is whether she wins over any of the unconverted/ fencesitters.

    I don't think she does.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    Thoughts and prayers for the Boris Johnson fanbois and fangirls who so comprehensively defended Dominic Cummings after his sojourn to Bernard Castle saying he was a top bloke, beyond reproach.

    Especially Suella Braverman.

    Will the modern equivalent of Stalinist photo editing, excising old tweets, be taking place?


  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Someone born in 92 who had just been for a run been vaxxed here

    Wow. I remember sitting on a polling station in Leyton for that year’s election. Meanwhile you were busy being born.
    No, that's someone he knows.

    I think Pulpy is 82.
    Sadly I also remember being at a polling station when he was one, in that case.

    The passage of time is weird. The war movies I watched as a teenager seemed to come from ancient history, a time long gone. Yet me being a teenager is now even more long gone, yet it seems just recently.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_xP said:

    Cummings comprehensively trashed his own name in the public's perception

    BoZo vouched for him
    Good managers stand by their team and don't drop them at the first bit of difficulty.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    NEW: Boris Johnson denies Dominic Cummings' claim that he tried to stop a government inquiry into leaks of Covid policy. Asked if he intervened to protect an official close to his partner, Carrie Symonds (as Cummings claimed, PM tells @LBC @charlotterlynch: "No of course not."
    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1385642070707040258
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Nigelb said:

    This is proving a very entertaining stooshie, to borrow a term from our Scottish friends:

    https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/

    haha, I love the line: "It is sad to see the PM and his office fall so far below the standards of competence and integrity the country deserves." This is from Dominic Cummings! That is like being accused of misogyny by Jack the Ripper
    More like the Kray twins accusing each other of antisocial behaviour.
    A bit unfair on the Kray twins I would say.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy2JZqPACUo
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,767
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Boris Johnson denies Dominic Cummings' claim that he tried to stop a government inquiry into leaks of Covid policy. Asked if he intervened to protect an official close to his partner, Carrie Symonds (as Cummings claimed, PM tells @LBC @charlotterlynch: "No of course not."
    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1385642070707040258

    I've read that headline three times without really getting what's going on. It's a confusion of negatives. There may or may not be a story behind it, but it's a terrible, terrible headline.
  • Cummings is going to bring down Johnson?

    Spicy on serious 4 of the Tories: how much more can they fuck up the country?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Thoughts and prayers for the Boris Johnson fanbois and fangirls who so comprehensively defended Dominic Cummings after his sojourn to Bernard Castle saying he was a top bloke, beyond reproach.

    Especially Suella Braverman.

    Will the modern equivalent of Stalinist photo editing, excising old tweets, be taking place?


    Photoshop, like elephants, is clearly Russian.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Scott_xP said:

    Cummings comprehensively trashed his own name in the public's perception

    BoZo vouched for him
    Good managers stand by their team and don't drop them at the first bit of difficulty.
    Believe you are the first person to ever equate the term "good manager" with Boris Johnson.

    He's been called MANY things - but NEVER that!
  • Dominic Cummings is actually a Labour plant?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Scott_xP said:

    Cummings comprehensively trashed his own name in the public's perception

    BoZo vouched for him
    Good managers stand by their team and don't drop them at the first bit of difficulty.
    Believe you are the first person to ever equate the term "good manager" with Boris Johnson.

    He's been called MANY things - but NEVER that!
    Looking forward to the time when his PB fanclub members will be truly ashamed.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Boris Johnson denies Dominic Cummings' claim that he tried to stop a government inquiry into leaks of Covid policy. Asked if he intervened to protect an official close to his partner, Carrie Symonds (as Cummings claimed, PM tells @LBC @charlotterlynch: "No of course not."
    https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1385642070707040258

    I've read that headline three times without really getting what's going on. It's a confusion of negatives. There may or may not be a story behind it, but it's a terrible, terrible headline.
    Talk about leaks and inquiries doesn't cut through.

    So that leaves some stories about wallpaper and a tax break for making ventilators.

    Which are shrug of the shoulders stuff.

    But there is a story which is raising comment in the real world.

    And that is Cameron involved with sleazy money lenders trying to enrich themselves at the expense of the NHS.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173
    My mum got her second dose of AZ today. Interestingly she was told that if you don’t get the second dose within 12 weeks you have to start again.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    IanB2 said:

    Looking forward to the time when his PB fanclub members will be truly ashamed.

    Why?

    They will never have been fans of BoZo. Always said he was a wrong 'un...
  • Breaking

    Fan demonstrations outside the Emirates demanding the owners go
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,158

    Pulpstar said:

    @Pulpstar you're the same age as me! How come you've got your vac today? Luck? Pre-existing condition?

    Surgery sent me a message. No pre existing. Luck I guess :)
    Lucky devil!

    Pleased for you though.
    Remember last one to be vaxxed gets the pb drinks in :D
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    You need people to push issues hard, it really does help to make things happen. Fair enough if you want to argue, even if implausibly on occasion, that not enough has happened. But at a certain point denying that things are happening at all when they are can be counter productive. Why would many ordinary people, who are concerned about climate issues, do or support proposals if the past actions apparently didn't mean anything?
    The trouble is that the Climate Change Act (80% reduction by 2050) was passed in 2008, well before Greta came on the scene, and the net zero law in June 2019, which was only 10 months after she first appeared on the scene. And work for it was well underway even before then.

    I think it's an innocent pure Joan of Arc figurehead sort of thing going on: she appeals to those who are already pretty radical about it.
    It's also true that even immediate actions can take a bit of time to show effect, so people may be wanting a more instant effect from their passionate campaigning.

    On Greta, see seems articulate enough to me and for whatever reason has struck a chord with plenty of people, but I also think that people in general have a fascination with youthful preaching/advocacy. Child campaigners (and yes she is an adult now but has been about for a few years), for better and worse, can get a lot of attention simply as a spectacle in addition to any actual merited worth.
    The question is whether she wins over any of the unconverted/ fencesitters.

    I don't think she does.
    Greta Thunberg is a trap.

    Her purpose (not her own idea, obviously, but from those managing her) is to trick reactionary right wingers into responding to her. Inevitably, lots of them do so, not by attacking the points she makes - which is hard work, even when she's obviously wrong - but by attacking her as a person - which is a) incredibly easy, b) incredibly tempting, and c) if you forget that what you're doing is mocking a teenage girl with a developmental disorder, moderately fun (probably).

    The last point is the key - it's not bad strategy to watch your opponents blunder into such an inviting trap, point out what bad people they obviously are, and claim their argument must therefore be wrong (the association fallacy) and hence the opposite of that must be correct.

    I say it's not bad strategy, but I still hate absolutely everything about what I've just written.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Someone born in 92 who had just been for a run been vaxxed here

    Wow. I remember sitting on a polling station in Leyton for that year’s election. Meanwhile you were busy being born.
    No, that's someone he knows.

    I think Pulpy is 82.
    Sadly I also remember being at a polling station when he was one, in that case.

    The passage of time is weird. The war movies I watched as a teenager seemed to come from ancient history, a time long gone. Yet me being a teenager is now even more long gone, yet it seems just recently.
    Grow up but don't grow old, as they say.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    Thoughts and prayers for the Boris Johnson fanbois and fangirls who so comprehensively defended Dominic Cummings after his sojourn to Bernard Castle saying he was a top bloke, beyond reproach.

    Especially Suella Braverman.

    Will the modern equivalent of Stalinist photo editing, excising old tweets, be taking place?


    Photoshop, like elephants, is clearly Russian.
    The photoshopping is competent but the degradation of the image as a whole is terrible, look how the bridge in the background vanishes. Analogue vs digital.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,158

    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Someone born in 92 who had just been for a run been vaxxed here

    Wow. I remember sitting on a polling station in Leyton for that year’s election. Meanwhile you were busy being born.
    No, that's someone he knows.

    I think Pulpy is 82.
    No was just a random I overheard. I'm 1981
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399

    kle4 said:

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    You need people to push issues hard, it really does help to make things happen. Fair enough if you want to argue, even if implausibly on occasion, that not enough has happened. But at a certain point denying that things are happening at all when they are can be counter productive. Why would many ordinary people, who are concerned about climate issues, do or support proposals if the past actions apparently didn't mean anything?
    The trouble is that the Climate Change Act (80% reduction by 2050) was passed in 2008, well before Greta came on the scene, and the net zero law in June 2019, which was only 10 months after she first appeared on the scene. And work for it was well underway even before then.

    I think it's an innocent pure Joan of Arc figurehead sort of thing going on: she appeals to those who are already pretty radical about it.
    If she's Joan of Arc then she's going to defeat us in a war?
    French did that. It wasn't until the 1440s (10 years after we burnt her) that they laid the smack down.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    edited April 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Pfizered up

    Congratulations! Good to see you’re one of more than half a million done today, give it a couple more months and everyone will have had at least one dose.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399

    Cummings is going to bring down Johnson?

    Spicy on serious 4 of the Tories: how much more can they fuck up the country?

    You've got a bit more partisan and emotional recently.

    Too much time on Twitter?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Someone born in 92 who had just been for a run been vaxxed here

    Wow. I remember sitting on a polling station in Leyton for that year’s election. Meanwhile you were busy being born.
    No, that's someone he knows.

    I think Pulpy is 82.
    Sadly I also remember being at a polling station when he was one, in that case.

    The passage of time is weird. The war movies I watched as a teenager seemed to come from ancient history, a time long gone. Yet me being a teenager is now even more long gone, yet it seems just recently.
    Just life. Both my parents were born in the Raj.

    Yes, really.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    You need people to push issues hard, it really does help to make things happen. Fair enough if you want to argue, even if implausibly on occasion, that not enough has happened. But at a certain point denying that things are happening at all when they are can be counter productive. Why would many ordinary people, who are concerned about climate issues, do or support proposals if the past actions apparently didn't mean anything?
    The trouble is that the Climate Change Act (80% reduction by 2050) was passed in 2008, well before Greta came on the scene, and the net zero law in June 2019, which was only 10 months after she first appeared on the scene. And work for it was well underway even before then.

    I think it's an innocent pure Joan of Arc figurehead sort of thing going on: she appeals to those who are already pretty radical about it.
    It's also true that even immediate actions can take a bit of time to show effect, so people may be wanting a more instant effect from their passionate campaigning.

    On Greta, see seems articulate enough to me and for whatever reason has struck a chord with plenty of people, but I also think that people in general have a fascination with youthful preaching/advocacy. Child campaigners (and yes she is an adult now but has been about for a few years), for better and worse, can get a lot of attention simply as a spectacle in addition to any actual merited worth.
    The question is whether she wins over any of the unconverted/ fencesitters.

    I don't think she does.
    Greta Thunberg is a trap.

    Her purpose (not her own idea, obviously, but from those managing her) is to trick reactionary right wingers into responding to her. Inevitably, lots of them do so, not by attacking the points she makes - which is hard work, even when she's obviously wrong - but by attacking her as a person - which is a) incredibly easy, b) incredibly tempting, and c) if you forget that what you're doing is mocking a teenage girl with a developmental disorder, moderately fun (probably).

    The last point is the key - it's not bad strategy to watch your opponents blunder into such an inviting trap, point out what bad people they obviously are, and claim their argument must therefore be wrong (the association fallacy) and hence the opposite of that must be correct.

    I say it's not bad strategy, but I still hate absolutely everything about what I've just written.
    You're probably right, but if someone is made the face of a political movement, they cannot entirely hide behind their youth or other issues, nor can people do so on that person's behalf. Not if they simultaneously expect that person to be listened to.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Number in English hospitals with covid down to 1,478 with 221 on ventilators.

    Interestingly the numbers are reducing much more slowly in London than elsewhere.

    A consequence of the London anti-vaxxers perhaps ?

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046

    Cummings is going to bring down Johnson?

    Spicy on serious 4 of the Tories: how much more can they fuck up the country?

    You've got a bit more partisan and emotional recently.

    Too much time on Twitter?
    That is speculation of course, so one might argue that time on PB leading to partisanship and emotion may have more evidence behind it as a theory. Certainly does for me!
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    kle4 said:

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    You need people to push issues hard, it really does help to make things happen. Fair enough if you want to argue, even if implausibly on occasion, that not enough has happened. But at a certain point denying that things are happening at all when they are can be counter productive. Why would many ordinary people, who are concerned about climate issues, do or support proposals if the past actions apparently didn't mean anything?
    The trouble is that the Climate Change Act (80% reduction by 2050) was passed in 2008, well before Greta came on the scene, and the net zero law in June 2019, which was only 10 months after she first appeared on the scene. And work for it was well underway even before then.

    I think it's an innocent pure Joan of Arc figurehead sort of thing going on: she appeals to those who are already pretty radical about it.
    It's also true that even immediate actions can take a bit of time to show effect, so people may be wanting a more instant effect from their passionate campaigning.

    On Greta, see seems articulate enough to me and for whatever reason has struck a chord with plenty of people, but I also think that people in general have a fascination with youthful preaching/advocacy. Child campaigners (and yes she is an adult now but has been about for a few years), for better and worse, can get a lot of attention simply as a spectacle in addition to any actual merited worth.
    The question is whether she wins over any of the unconverted/ fencesitters.

    I don't think she does.
    Greta Thunberg is a trap.

    Her purpose (not her own idea, obviously, but from those managing her) is to trick reactionary right wingers into responding to her. Inevitably, lots of them do so, not by attacking the points she makes - which is hard work, even when she's obviously wrong - but by attacking her as a person - which is a) incredibly easy, b) incredibly tempting, and c) if you forget that what you're doing is mocking a teenage girl with a developmental disorder, moderately fun (probably).

    The last point is the key - it's not bad strategy to watch your opponents blunder into such an inviting trap, point out what bad people they obviously are, and claim their argument must therefore be wrong (the association fallacy) and hence the opposite of that must be correct.

    I say it's not bad strategy, but I still hate absolutely everything about what I've just written.
    You're probably right, but if someone is made the face of a political movement, they cannot entirely hide behind their youth or other issues, nor can people do so on that person's behalf. Not if they simultaneously expect that person to be listened to.
    Yeah? Watch them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    Dominic Cummings is actually a Labour plant?

    Nah, he just doesn’t like being smeared on the front pages, for something he had nothing to do with.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    You need people to push issues hard, it really does help to make things happen. Fair enough if you want to argue, even if implausibly on occasion, that not enough has happened. But at a certain point denying that things are happening at all when they are can be counter productive. Why would many ordinary people, who are concerned about climate issues, do or support proposals if the past actions apparently didn't mean anything?
    The trouble is that the Climate Change Act (80% reduction by 2050) was passed in 2008, well before Greta came on the scene, and the net zero law in June 2019, which was only 10 months after she first appeared on the scene. And work for it was well underway even before then.

    I think it's an innocent pure Joan of Arc figurehead sort of thing going on: she appeals to those who are already pretty radical about it.
    It's also true that even immediate actions can take a bit of time to show effect, so people may be wanting a more instant effect from their passionate campaigning.

    On Greta, see seems articulate enough to me and for whatever reason has struck a chord with plenty of people, but I also think that people in general have a fascination with youthful preaching/advocacy. Child campaigners (and yes she is an adult now but has been about for a few years), for better and worse, can get a lot of attention simply as a spectacle in addition to any actual merited worth.
    The question is whether she wins over any of the unconverted/ fencesitters.

    I don't think she does.
    Greta Thunberg is a trap.

    Her purpose (not her own idea, obviously, but from those managing her) is to trick reactionary right wingers into responding to her. Inevitably, lots of them do so, not by attacking the points she makes - which is hard work, even when she's obviously wrong - but by attacking her as a person - which is a) incredibly easy, b) incredibly tempting, and c) if you forget that what you're doing is mocking a teenage girl with a developmental disorder, moderately fun (probably).

    The last point is the key - it's not bad strategy to watch your opponents blunder into such an inviting trap, point out what bad people they obviously are, and claim their argument must therefore be wrong (the association fallacy) and hence the opposite of that must be correct.

    I say it's not bad strategy, but I still hate absolutely everything about what I've just written.
    You're probably right, but if someone is made the face of a political movement, they cannot entirely hide behind their youth or other issues, nor can people do so on that person's behalf. Not if they simultaneously expect that person to be listened to.
    Yeah? Watch them.
    They can do it, they just cannot credibly or reasonably do it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
    Greta is also wrong on many issues. She upbraids Governments, including ours, for doing "nothing" when in fact they're doing an awful lot.
    You need people to push issues hard, it really does help to make things happen. Fair enough if you want to argue, even if implausibly on occasion, that not enough has happened. But at a certain point denying that things are happening at all when they are can be counter productive. Why would many ordinary people, who are concerned about climate issues, do or support proposals if the past actions apparently didn't mean anything?
    The trouble is that the Climate Change Act (80% reduction by 2050) was passed in 2008, well before Greta came on the scene, and the net zero law in June 2019, which was only 10 months after she first appeared on the scene. And work for it was well underway even before then.

    I think it's an innocent pure Joan of Arc figurehead sort of thing going on: she appeals to those who are already pretty radical about it.
    It's also true that even immediate actions can take a bit of time to show effect, so people may be wanting a more instant effect from their passionate campaigning.

    On Greta, see seems articulate enough to me and for whatever reason has struck a chord with plenty of people, but I also think that people in general have a fascination with youthful preaching/advocacy. Child campaigners (and yes she is an adult now but has been about for a few years), for better and worse, can get a lot of attention simply as a spectacle in addition to any actual merited worth.
    The question is whether she wins over any of the unconverted/ fencesitters.

    I don't think she does.
    Greta Thunberg is a trap.

    Her purpose (not her own idea, obviously, but from those managing her) is to trick reactionary right wingers into responding to her. Inevitably, lots of them do so, not by attacking the points she makes - which is hard work, even when she's obviously wrong - but by attacking her as a person - which is a) incredibly easy, b) incredibly tempting, and c) if you forget that what you're doing is mocking a teenage girl with a developmental disorder, moderately fun (probably).

    The last point is the key - it's not bad strategy to watch your opponents blunder into such an inviting trap, point out what bad people they obviously are, and claim their argument must therefore be wrong (the association fallacy) and hence the opposite of that must be correct.

    I say it's not bad strategy, but I still hate absolutely everything about what I've just written.
    You're probably right, but if someone is made the face of a political movement, they cannot entirely hide behind their youth or other issues, nor can people do so on that person's behalf. Not if they simultaneously expect that person to be listened to.
    Well, let a thousand flowers bloom. Others can do the intellectual heavy lifting, her target market is the young, with whom she seems to be very effective

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/05/greta-thunberg-effect-public-concern-over-environment-reaches-record-high
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Your Friday evening chill: take three minutes out of your life to see what this guy has done with some old lemonade bottles, and incidentally enjoy the views I have walking the dog...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfmNzC7I0Zk
This discussion has been closed.