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American polls may now need to fundamentally change their poll weightings – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,049
edited April 2021 in General
American polls may now need to fundamentally change their poll weightings – politicalbetting.com

In 2016, poor health strongly predicted Trump voting. A county's rate of diabetes, alcohol consumption, obesity, etc. predicted its propensity to vote Trump *even better* than race/education. https://t.co/ew0d9lUxfr pic.twitter.com/6sHUf2EyYj

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Comments

  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    No, being obese and having diabetes does not make you more inclined to vote for Trump.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Interesting topic - although, given how powerfully correlated voting intention is now with age, I wonder how much of an independent signal we could derive from health status (as distinct from that merely being the consequence of voting Tory being so skewed towards the elderly, who are obviously more likely to be in poor health on average.)

    I was involved in a discussion about factors contributing towards voting intention a few days ago, the conclusion of which was that you could probably make a very good prediction (in England at any rate) of which Parliamentary constituencies were likely to go Tory or anti-Tory by plugging three values for each seat into a simple model: the average age of the population, percentage of owner-occupancy, and the proportion of non-White electors.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2021
    FPT:

    Politico.com - White House writes off Johnson & Johnson vaccine after string of production failures
    The chaos has disappointed the Biden team, which once argued that the company’s one-dose vaccine would be central to turning the tide of the pandemic.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/22/biden-officials-johnson-vaccine-484356

    Johnson & Johnson - a dysfunctional family company

    The EU has ordered 200 million doses from J&J.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/contracts-purchasing-agreements.html

    There appear to be two issues - blood clot potential problem and US manufacturing screw ups - anyone know where EU/UK's are being manufactured?

    I wonder if they'll get sued too?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    FPT:

    Politico.com - White House writes off Johnson & Johnson vaccine after string of production failures
    The chaos has disappointed the Biden team, which once argued that the company’s one-dose vaccine would be central to turning the tide of the pandemic.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/22/biden-officials-johnson-vaccine-484356

    Johnson & Johnson - a dysfunctional family company

    The EU has ordered 200 million doses from J&J.

    There appear to be two issues - blood clot potential problem and US manufacturing screw ups - anyone know where EU/UK's are being manufactured?
    I would've assumed that ours are meant to come from continental Europe, but if it has the same issues as AZ then, given that the NHS is already well down into the fortysomethings, it'll probably be given away rather than used here.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited April 2021
    Ah, that's nothing - the correlation between having had the Covid jab and voting Conservative is really quite remarkable...

    I still have a pet theory that the current disparity in vaccination status between the age groups could have the result of slightly amplifying the usual differential turnout effect next month. We'll see if anything comes of it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,461
    Another day, another fall on all covid metrics (except testing, which continues to rise).

    Averaging 23 reported deaths per day now.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    Interesting topic - although, given how powerfully correlated voting intention is now with age, I wonder how much of an independent signal we could derive from health status (as distinct from that merely being the consequence of voting Tory being so skewed towards the elderly, who are obviously more likely to be in poor health on average.)

    I was involved in a discussion about factors contributing towards voting intention a few days ago, the conclusion of which was that you could probably make a very good prediction (in England at any rate) of which Parliamentary constituencies were likely to go Tory or anti-Tory by plugging three values for each seat into a simple model: the average age of the population, percentage of owner-occupancy, and the proportion of non-White electors.

    I have been coming to this site for a very long time - since the mid 2000s and there was a news article at the time which fascinated me that discussed - I think - that any constituency that had a Waitrose also had a Tory MP. Clearly this is no longer true, but it made me think differently about factors that could predict the seat at a general election.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,341
    edited April 2021
    "With the structure of the American health system poorer people cannot get the heath coverage and assistance they need perhaps this is why the GOP tried to gut and sabotage the Affordable Care Act? It was an attempt to beget more GOP voters."

    This gets it completely the wrong way around. I am no fan of Obamacare, but it failed in states that did not fund it (GOP states), and hence health outcomes are worse in those states.

    Far from being a leading indicator (and hence useful for prediction), I fear this is a lagging indicator, i.e. the prediction is that health outcomes will be worse in GOP states, rather than poor health leads to voting GOP
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,524
    edited April 2021
    Breaking: President Biden will travel to the United Kingdom and Belgium in June 2021. This will be his first overseas travel.

    Biden will attend the G7 Summit in Cornwall, U.K. from June 11-13. He'll then travel to Brussels, Belgium, to participate in the NATO Summit on June 14.

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1385614613039837184
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,366
    European Super League contracts are LEAKED, revealing clubs pulling out face a £130MILLION 'break-up fee' - and haven't left yet, teams would broadcast matches themselves and Real Madrid and Barcelona were to be paid extra £52m more than their rivals

    German outlet Der Spiegel has released a few pages of the document, which was agreed to by the Premier League's 'Big Six', as well as three clubs from Italy and three from Spain before the controversial announcement last week.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9503959/European-Super-League-contracts-LEAKED-revealing-clubs-pulling-face-130m-fee.html
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2021
    #BREAKING Biden's first foreign trip to be to June G7 in Britain: W.Hous

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1385613746421239811?s=20
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159

    Breaking: President Biden will travel to the United Kingdom and Belgium in June 2021. This will be his first overseas travel.

    Biden will attend the G7 Summit in Cornwall, U.K. from June 11-13. He'll then travel to Brussels, Belgium, to participate in the NATO Summit on June 14.

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1385614613039837184

    Makes the most sense wrt the G7 summit, I think Japan or Canada would have been first otherwise.
  • Ryan Giggs charged:

    CPS: “We have authorised Greater Manchester Police to charge Ryan Giggs with engaging in behaviour which was controlling or coercive and assault occasioning actual bodily harm."

    “A charge of assault by beating relating to a second woman has also been authorised. Mr Giggs will appear at Manchester and Salford Magistrates' Court on Wednesday 28th April."

    https://twitter.com/BBCDanielS/status/1385610396048973826
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159

    FPT:

    Politico.com - White House writes off Johnson & Johnson vaccine after string of production failures
    The chaos has disappointed the Biden team, which once argued that the company’s one-dose vaccine would be central to turning the tide of the pandemic.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/22/biden-officials-johnson-vaccine-484356

    Johnson & Johnson - a dysfunctional family company

    The EU has ordered 200 million doses from J&J.

    There appear to be two issues - blood clot potential problem and US manufacturing screw ups - anyone know where EU/UK's are being manufactured?
    I would've assumed that ours are meant to come from continental Europe, but if it has the same issues as AZ then, given that the NHS is already well down into the fortysomethings, it'll probably be given away rather than used here.
    It doesn't make sense to introduce J&J here. It's another vaccine to monitor and it exhibits the same issues as AZ. It's likely we'll defer it for a gen 2/3 vaccine and look for them to fix the vector issue.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,360
    Seeing how Johnson can travel back in time and pay for something he didn't in fact pay for at the time, could he go back to February 2020 and attend some COBRA meetings, March 2020 and stop himself shaking hands with everyone, April 2020 to extend the transition period, etc? https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1385606477730263044
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272

    European Super League contracts are LEAKED, revealing clubs pulling out face a £130MILLION 'break-up fee' - and haven't left yet, teams would broadcast matches themselves and Real Madrid and Barcelona were to be paid extra £52m more than their rivals

    German outlet Der Spiegel has released a few pages of the document, which was agreed to by the Premier League's 'Big Six', as well as three clubs from Italy and three from Spain before the controversial announcement last week.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9503959/European-Super-League-contracts-LEAKED-revealing-clubs-pulling-face-130m-fee.html

    Interesting to see they weren't even prepared to divide up the loot evenly.
    Looks like Barca and Real doing the same as they did to La Liga, but on a larger scale.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    TimT said:

    "With the structure of the American health system poorer people cannot get the heath coverage and assistance they need perhaps this is why the GOP tried to gut and sabotage the Affordable Care Act? It was an attempt to beget more GOP voters."

    This gets it completely the wrong way around. I am no fan of Obamacare, but it failed in states that did not fund it (GOP states), and hence health outcomes are worse in those states.

    Far from being a leading indicator (and hence useful for prediction), I fear this is a lagging indicator, i.e. the prediction is that health outcomes will be worse in GOP states, rather than poor health leads to voting GOP

    Yes, the header is very poor.

    I suggest sentencing TSE to the Piers Punishment - isolation for 6 months in a room with Piers Corbyn, Piers Morgan and Julian Assange. The only food is pineapple pizza. Radiohead is played on a continuous loop. The only entertainment is one laptop which is locked down - only providing access to Con Home and the Python programming language.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting, the EMA says AZ benefits outweigh risks in all age groups - unlike the UK, where its no longer recommended for under 30s:

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-benefits-risks-context
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    MaxPB said:

    Breaking: President Biden will travel to the United Kingdom and Belgium in June 2021. This will be his first overseas travel.

    Biden will attend the G7 Summit in Cornwall, U.K. from June 11-13. He'll then travel to Brussels, Belgium, to participate in the NATO Summit on June 14.

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1385614613039837184

    Makes the most sense wrt the G7 summit, I think Japan or Canada would have been first otherwise.
    Japan & Canada are doing very poorly in the vaccine stakes.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,018

    Interesting, the EMA says AZ benefits outweigh risks in all age groups - unlike the UK, where its no longer recommended for under 30s:

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-benefits-risks-context

    Is that not simply a function of COVID being more of a problem in the EU right now?
  • TimT said:

    "With the structure of the American health system poorer people cannot get the heath coverage and assistance they need perhaps this is why the GOP tried to gut and sabotage the Affordable Care Act? It was an attempt to beget more GOP voters."

    This gets it completely the wrong way around. I am no fan of Obamacare, but it failed in states that did not fund it (GOP states), and hence health outcomes are worse in those states.

    Far from being a leading indicator (and hence useful for prediction), I fear this is a lagging indicator, i.e. the prediction is that health outcomes will be worse in GOP states, rather than poor health leads to voting GOP

    I was more thinking along the lines of being poor and in poor health means you're more receptive to a party that is prepared to shake things up/says the status quo isn't working. The disruptor candidate, as it were, and that candidate will improve your life.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,103

    European Super League contracts are LEAKED, revealing clubs pulling out face a £130MILLION 'break-up fee' - and haven't left yet, teams would broadcast matches themselves and Real Madrid and Barcelona were to be paid extra £52m more than their rivals

    German outlet Der Spiegel has released a few pages of the document, which was agreed to by the Premier League's 'Big Six', as well as three clubs from Italy and three from Spain before the controversial announcement last week.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9503959/European-Super-League-contracts-LEAKED-revealing-clubs-pulling-face-130m-fee.html

    If they are all pulling out then to whom would they owe the fee?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272

    TimT said:

    "With the structure of the American health system poorer people cannot get the heath coverage and assistance they need perhaps this is why the GOP tried to gut and sabotage the Affordable Care Act? It was an attempt to beget more GOP voters."

    This gets it completely the wrong way around. I am no fan of Obamacare, but it failed in states that did not fund it (GOP states), and hence health outcomes are worse in those states.

    Far from being a leading indicator (and hence useful for prediction), I fear this is a lagging indicator, i.e. the prediction is that health outcomes will be worse in GOP states, rather than poor health leads to voting GOP

    Yes, the header is very poor.

    I suggest sentencing TSE to the Piers Punishment - isolation for 6 months in a room with Piers Corbyn, Piers Morgan and Julian Assange. The only food is pineapple pizza. Radiohead is played on a continuous loop. The only entertainment is one laptop which is locked down - only providing access to Con Home and the Python programming language.
    Or, we could let him choose to be let loose in the wilderness with birds of prey, beavers, and bears.
  • MaffewMaffew Posts: 235

    Interesting, the EMA says AZ benefits outweigh risks in all age groups - unlike the UK, where its no longer recommended for under 30s:

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-benefits-risks-context

    Isn't that just a symptom of higher case rates and lower vaccine supply in the EU? The risks were only worse than the benefits for under 30s under the EMAs "low Covid" scenario if I remember correctly.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426

    Interesting, the EMA says AZ benefits outweigh risks in all age groups - unlike the UK, where its no longer recommended for under 30s:

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-benefits-risks-context

    The reason that it is not being recommended in the UK for the under 30s is that -

    1) The extremely low level of COVID (and falling) means that the risk of COVID vs the risk of vaccine are very close.
    2) There are enough alternative vaccines available.

    In places with a higher rate of COVID, then 1) will not neccasarily be true.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,018
    dixiedean said:

    European Super League contracts are LEAKED, revealing clubs pulling out face a £130MILLION 'break-up fee' - and haven't left yet, teams would broadcast matches themselves and Real Madrid and Barcelona were to be paid extra £52m more than their rivals

    German outlet Der Spiegel has released a few pages of the document, which was agreed to by the Premier League's 'Big Six', as well as three clubs from Italy and three from Spain before the controversial announcement last week.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9503959/European-Super-League-contracts-LEAKED-revealing-clubs-pulling-face-130m-fee.html

    Interesting to see they weren't even prepared to divide up the loot evenly.
    Looks like Barca and Real doing the same as they did to La Liga, but on a larger scale.
    Who could have predicted this?!

    Presumably the Americans didn’t care, because their investments would, they believed, have gone up in value. Why would they care about the clubs being treated worse than Real and Barca?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272

    European Super League contracts are LEAKED, revealing clubs pulling out face a £130MILLION 'break-up fee' - and haven't left yet, teams would broadcast matches themselves and Real Madrid and Barcelona were to be paid extra £52m more than their rivals

    German outlet Der Spiegel has released a few pages of the document, which was agreed to by the Premier League's 'Big Six', as well as three clubs from Italy and three from Spain before the controversial announcement last week.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9503959/European-Super-League-contracts-LEAKED-revealing-clubs-pulling-face-130m-fee.html

    If they are all pulling out then to whom would they owe the fee?
    Real Madrid on past form.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,768
    .

    Interesting, the EMA says AZ benefits outweigh risks in all age groups - unlike the UK, where its no longer recommended for under 30s:

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-benefits-risks-context

    Rates of infection are considerably higher in Europe, which makes the risk comparison different.
    Also vaccine supply is more constrained.

    Basically the risk from either AZN or J&J is very low indeed, and pales into insignificance if using stops an ongoing pandemic.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Together with @eucopresident Michel, I will be happy to greet US @POTUS
    Biden in Brussels for the EU-US summit on his next trip to Europe in June 2021.

    We have much to do together, from climate change to health, from trade and multilateralism to geopolitical challenges.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1385614997255073794?s=20

    Reports say "NATO Summit".......
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,524
    edited April 2021
    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    European Super League contracts are LEAKED, revealing clubs pulling out face a £130MILLION 'break-up fee' - and haven't left yet, teams would broadcast matches themselves and Real Madrid and Barcelona were to be paid extra £52m more than their rivals

    German outlet Der Spiegel has released a few pages of the document, which was agreed to by the Premier League's 'Big Six', as well as three clubs from Italy and three from Spain before the controversial announcement last week.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9503959/European-Super-League-contracts-LEAKED-revealing-clubs-pulling-face-130m-fee.html

    Interesting to see they weren't even prepared to divide up the loot evenly.
    Looks like Barca and Real doing the same as they did to La Liga, but on a larger scale.
    Who could have predicted this?!

    Presumably the Americans didn’t care, because their investments would, they believed, have gone up in value. Why would they care about the clubs being treated worse than Real and Barca?
    I'd hate to be pedantic, but the value of Liverpool has increased from £320 million in 2010 to over £2 billion before the announcement of the ESL.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,607
    "@MrHarryCole
    G'DAY! White smoke Aussie trade talks...

    Hearing "consensus reached on main elements of a deal"

    With a view to full agreement in June... signed at G7."
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274
    dixiedean said:

    TimT said:

    "With the structure of the American health system poorer people cannot get the heath coverage and assistance they need perhaps this is why the GOP tried to gut and sabotage the Affordable Care Act? It was an attempt to beget more GOP voters."

    This gets it completely the wrong way around. I am no fan of Obamacare, but it failed in states that did not fund it (GOP states), and hence health outcomes are worse in those states.

    Far from being a leading indicator (and hence useful for prediction), I fear this is a lagging indicator, i.e. the prediction is that health outcomes will be worse in GOP states, rather than poor health leads to voting GOP

    Yes, the header is very poor.

    I suggest sentencing TSE to the Piers Punishment - isolation for 6 months in a room with Piers Corbyn, Piers Morgan and Julian Assange. The only food is pineapple pizza. Radiohead is played on a continuous loop. The only entertainment is one laptop which is locked down - only providing access to Con Home and the Python programming language.
    Or, we could let him choose to be let loose in the wilderness with birds of prey, beavers, and bears.
    He LIKES beavers! Substitute feral alpacas.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    dixiedean said:

    TimT said:

    "With the structure of the American health system poorer people cannot get the heath coverage and assistance they need perhaps this is why the GOP tried to gut and sabotage the Affordable Care Act? It was an attempt to beget more GOP voters."

    This gets it completely the wrong way around. I am no fan of Obamacare, but it failed in states that did not fund it (GOP states), and hence health outcomes are worse in those states.

    Far from being a leading indicator (and hence useful for prediction), I fear this is a lagging indicator, i.e. the prediction is that health outcomes will be worse in GOP states, rather than poor health leads to voting GOP

    Yes, the header is very poor.

    I suggest sentencing TSE to the Piers Punishment - isolation for 6 months in a room with Piers Corbyn, Piers Morgan and Julian Assange. The only food is pineapple pizza. Radiohead is played on a continuous loop. The only entertainment is one laptop which is locked down - only providing access to Con Home and the Python programming language.
    Or, we could let him choose to be let loose in the wilderness with birds of prey, beavers, and bears.
    No, I am not that nice.

    When I become UnDictator of Britain.....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Glad to visit @Pfizer's Puurs site.

    Thanks to strong, reliable partners like @Pfizer and @BioNTech_Group, vaccination in the EU is speeding up.

    I'm confident we will have enough doses to vaccinate 70% of all EU adults already in July.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1385562032641134593?s=20
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    TimT said:

    "With the structure of the American health system poorer people cannot get the heath coverage and assistance they need perhaps this is why the GOP tried to gut and sabotage the Affordable Care Act? It was an attempt to beget more GOP voters."

    This gets it completely the wrong way around. I am no fan of Obamacare, but it failed in states that did not fund it (GOP states), and hence health outcomes are worse in those states.

    Far from being a leading indicator (and hence useful for prediction), I fear this is a lagging indicator, i.e. the prediction is that health outcomes will be worse in GOP states, rather than poor health leads to voting GOP

    I was more thinking along the lines of being poor and in poor health means you're more receptive to a party that is prepared to shake things up/says the status quo isn't working. The disruptor candidate, as it were, and that candidate will improve your life.
    Maybe we can have a header that says being an arrogant, self-righteous pr1ck makes you more likely to vote Democrat *

    * Ps that is not aimed at you TSE
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Good afternoon everyone, and thank you Philip for a thought provoking article.

    This is a very difficult election for Nicola Sturgeon. If she wins an overall majority, she has no excuse not to call for a referendum. Despite the bluster, I think Boris Johnson would have no alternative other than to grant one. He won’t want to be seen as a democracy denier. If Yes win an Indyref, the reason for the SNP’s existence disappears. If she loses, she will gave to resign, and the SNP will be severely weakened for many years.

    It is in Sturgeon’s interest, therefore, not to have a referendum. The scenario that would most suit her, and enable her to continue with her social engineering policies, would be to fall very slightly short of an overall majority, and to govern with the support of the Greens, either in a coalition or a confidence and supply deal. SNP and Green policies are very similar. However, this will be difficult to pull off. If she is too successful, she will have an overall majority. If she is not successful enough, she will be weakened, and will be leading a lame duck government.

    Alba has thrown a major spanner in the works for her. Independence supporters now have another party to vote for. I think they will gain 3 or 4 seats and hold her feet to the fire. There will also be a fightback within the SNP from the currently marginalised activists who have been denied a say in policy since 2018, unless she fights for a referendum.

    Can she pull it off? I think not. The SNP have fought a lacklustre campaign, only helped by the media, especially the BBC, hardly mentioning Alba. Ofcom are today investigating the lack of BBC coverage of Alba. I suspect that many SNP supporters will just stay at home, and even more will vote Green, Alba or Labour on the list. I expect Labour to be the second biggest party, and therefore, the official opposition. This would also suit Sturgeon, as it would reduce the emphasis on Independence in Holyrood.

    Interesting times ahead!

    Latest Comres has the SNP on 62 seats so she would fall short of the 65 she needs for an overall majority as would suit her and with 7 Greens remain in government but the SNP would be down one on the 63 seats they won in 2016 which could also weaken her.
    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1385315103625515016?s=20

    Yougov gives the SNP 68 seats and a narrow overall majority so it will be close either way

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1385198824948486146?s=20
    It will be interesting to see whether the opinion polls change between now and May 6th. The final result won’t be known until Saturday at the earliest. They will be counting constituency votes on the Friday, but can’t start calculating the list votes until all the constituencies have been decided.
    29 of the Holyrood constituencies will not be counting until the Saturday either, so forget election night this year, both the English local councils and Scottish and Welsh Parliaments and London Mayoral and Assembly and PCC counts will not be until the Friday and Saturday.

    The Thursday night of polling day will be merely verifications, so you can go to bed early and not miss anything as long as you are awake again for 9 30am Friday when the ballots actually start to be counted
    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1385558483123249153?s=20
    Thanks for that. Its all a bit frustrating. Do we know when Hartlepool is counting?
    Are we going to be subjected to prolonged moaning by PBers next month, about how crap the UK election system is, because punters can NOT get the instantaneous election results which they not only crave, but believe is their birthright?
    Absolutely. Standards must be maintained.
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    India. Good grief. Puts everything into perspective. The west should act.

    India death rate per million 135

    Global death rate per million 396

    UK death rate per million 1868

    India has a lot of cases but it also has a vast population, its Covid death rate is actually well below most of the West's due to its younger population.
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    The overall situation, evening the stats are dodgy, being better than average does not speak as to the current crisis being very bad and capable of causing a medical breakdown. Even case numbers scaled to population which are, in global terms, not as bad as some, could overwhelm, and then things would get very bad very quick.
  • That graph doesn't necessarily show what David Frum suggests.

    The argument is that poor health correlates with the individual's tendency to vote for Trump.

    But the graph shows that Trump improved on Romney's performance most in counties where average health was poor.

    One perfectly plausible explanation for that is that people in counties with poor health including - and perhaps particularly - those who are themselves in GOOD health, were particularly concerned about the costs of Obamacare because they are surrounded by people in poor health who are costly to treat. The individual mandate in Obamacare also isn't necessarily attractive for those in poor health in the sense that getting insurance is more costly.

    So those stats could easily reflect the voting impact of Obamacare, which is less salient in 2020, and quite likely to diminish even further as an issue in 2024. They don't necessarily mean "fatties for GOP" in any lasting sense.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274

    European Super League contracts are LEAKED, revealing clubs pulling out face a £130MILLION 'break-up fee' - and haven't left yet, teams would broadcast matches themselves and Real Madrid and Barcelona were to be paid extra £52m more than their rivals

    German outlet Der Spiegel has released a few pages of the document, which was agreed to by the Premier League's 'Big Six', as well as three clubs from Italy and three from Spain before the controversial announcement last week.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9503959/European-Super-League-contracts-LEAKED-revealing-clubs-pulling-face-130m-fee.html

    If they are all pulling out then to whom would they owe the fee?
    Lawyers? They clearly made out like bandits (pun intended).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Interesting, the EMA says AZ benefits outweigh risks in all age groups - unlike the UK, where its no longer recommended for under 30s:

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-benefits-risks-context

    The reason that it is not being recommended in the UK for the under 30s is that -

    1) The extremely low level of COVID (and falling) means that the risk of COVID vs the risk of vaccine are very close.
    2) There are enough alternative vaccines available.

    In places with a higher rate of COVID, then 1) will not neccasarily be true.
    Fair comment - as also noted by others above.

    Ironic that the EU medics are defending AZ while EU politicians trash it......
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,018

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    European Super League contracts are LEAKED, revealing clubs pulling out face a £130MILLION 'break-up fee' - and haven't left yet, teams would broadcast matches themselves and Real Madrid and Barcelona were to be paid extra £52m more than their rivals

    German outlet Der Spiegel has released a few pages of the document, which was agreed to by the Premier League's 'Big Six', as well as three clubs from Italy and three from Spain before the controversial announcement last week.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9503959/European-Super-League-contracts-LEAKED-revealing-clubs-pulling-face-130m-fee.html

    Interesting to see they weren't even prepared to divide up the loot evenly.
    Looks like Barca and Real doing the same as they did to La Liga, but on a larger scale.
    Who could have predicted this?!

    Presumably the Americans didn’t care, because their investments would, they believed, have gone up in value. Why would they care about the clubs being treated worse than Real and Barca?
    I'd hate to be pedantic, but the value of Liverpool has increased from £320 million in 2010 to over £2 billion before the announcement of the ESL.
    And? What do you think the value of Liverpool would have been in the ESL? Substantially more, I’d suggest.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426

    Interesting, the EMA says AZ benefits outweigh risks in all age groups - unlike the UK, where its no longer recommended for under 30s:

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-benefits-risks-context

    The reason that it is not being recommended in the UK for the under 30s is that -

    1) The extremely low level of COVID (and falling) means that the risk of COVID vs the risk of vaccine are very close.
    2) There are enough alternative vaccines available.

    In places with a higher rate of COVID, then 1) will not neccasarily be true.
    Fair comment - as also noted by others above.

    Ironic that the EU medics are defending AZ while EU politicians trash it......
    Politicians doing medicine - what could possibly go wrong?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274
    edited April 2021
    MrEd said:

    TimT said:

    "With the structure of the American health system poorer people cannot get the heath coverage and assistance they need perhaps this is why the GOP tried to gut and sabotage the Affordable Care Act? It was an attempt to beget more GOP voters."

    This gets it completely the wrong way around. I am no fan of Obamacare, but it failed in states that did not fund it (GOP states), and hence health outcomes are worse in those states.

    Far from being a leading indicator (and hence useful for prediction), I fear this is a lagging indicator, i.e. the prediction is that health outcomes will be worse in GOP states, rather than poor health leads to voting GOP

    I was more thinking along the lines of being poor and in poor health means you're more receptive to a party that is prepared to shake things up/says the status quo isn't working. The disruptor candidate, as it were, and that candidate will improve your life.
    Maybe we can have a header that says being an arrogant, self-righteous pr1ck makes you more likely to vote Democrat *

    * Ps that is not aimed at you TSE
    May be an arrogant prick, but am NOT self-righteous about it!

    That's on Monday, Tuesday and Friday. Rest of the week, I'm self-righteous but NOT arrogant.

    Am also obese (or at least fat) and diabetic. Which perhaps explains my occasional conservatism?
  • Scott_xP said:

    Seeing how Johnson can travel back in time and pay for something he didn't in fact pay for at the time, could he go back to February 2020 and attend some COBRA meetings, March 2020 and stop himself shaking hands with everyone, April 2020 to extend the transition period, etc? https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1385606477730263044

    Boris is really tormenting you

    Someday he will lose office but I fear your torment may continue for quite some yet
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The EU is keeping its friends close — and pushing its enemies further away.

    Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo visited Pfizer's Belgian factory Friday to brag publicly about the EU's star vaccine producer, BioNTech/Pfizer — just as they get ready to launch legal proceedings against drugmaker AstraZeneca behind closed doors.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-praises-biontech-pfizer-for-boosting-coronavirus-vaccines-deliveries/
  • MaxPB said:

    Breaking: President Biden will travel to the United Kingdom and Belgium in June 2021. This will be his first overseas travel.

    Biden will attend the G7 Summit in Cornwall, U.K. from June 11-13. He'll then travel to Brussels, Belgium, to participate in the NATO Summit on June 14.

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1385614613039837184

    Makes the most sense wrt the G7 summit, I think Japan or Canada would have been first otherwise.
    Japan & Canada are doing very poorly in the vaccine stakes.
    I know - my eldest son and his wife in their mid fifties living in Vancouver have no idea when they may be vaccinated
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,607

    Together with @eucopresident Michel, I will be happy to greet US @POTUS
    Biden in Brussels for the EU-US summit on his next trip to Europe in June 2021.

    We have much to do together, from climate change to health, from trade and multilateralism to geopolitical challenges.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1385614997255073794?s=20

    Reports say "NATO Summit".......

    It's interesting that all the US press agencies reported that his first visit would be to the UK for the G7 and then the NATO summit and then we immediately get that from Ursula von der Leyen.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,026
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    European Super League contracts are LEAKED, revealing clubs pulling out face a £130MILLION 'break-up fee' - and haven't left yet, teams would broadcast matches themselves and Real Madrid and Barcelona were to be paid extra £52m more than their rivals

    German outlet Der Spiegel has released a few pages of the document, which was agreed to by the Premier League's 'Big Six', as well as three clubs from Italy and three from Spain before the controversial announcement last week.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9503959/European-Super-League-contracts-LEAKED-revealing-clubs-pulling-face-130m-fee.html

    Interesting to see they weren't even prepared to divide up the loot evenly.
    Looks like Barca and Real doing the same as they did to La Liga, but on a larger scale.
    Who could have predicted this?!

    Presumably the Americans didn’t care, because their investments would, they believed, have gone up in value. Why would they care about the clubs being treated worse than Real and Barca?
    I'd hate to be pedantic, but the value of Liverpool has increased from £320 million in 2010 to over £2 billion before the announcement of the ESL.
    And? What do you think the value of Liverpool would have been in the ESL? Substantially more, I’d suggest.
    Why would the club have gone up in value if its purpose had gone from competing in the richest and most competitive league in the world to being cannon fodder for Real Madrid and Barca?
    Basically Real and Barca wanted to set up a continent-wide version of the SPL. Liverpool would have been Europe's Dundee United.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426

    MaxPB said:

    Breaking: President Biden will travel to the United Kingdom and Belgium in June 2021. This will be his first overseas travel.

    Biden will attend the G7 Summit in Cornwall, U.K. from June 11-13. He'll then travel to Brussels, Belgium, to participate in the NATO Summit on June 14.

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1385614613039837184

    Makes the most sense wrt the G7 summit, I think Japan or Canada would have been first otherwise.
    Japan & Canada are doing very poorly in the vaccine stakes.
    I know - my eldest son and his wife in their mid fifties living in Vancouver have no idea when they may be vaccinated
    The contrast between the Canadian approach and the EU can be summed up by this.

    A while back, due to issues with the Pfizer plant in Europe, no doses were sent to Canada for a whole week. None. Zero.

    The Canadian response was to ask, politely, Pfizer what they (Canada) could do to help to speed up resumption of deliveries.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    Seems to be issue with the PHE data feed (the api) today - under heavy load?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    Breaking: President Biden will travel to the United Kingdom and Belgium in June 2021. This will be his first overseas travel.

    Biden will attend the G7 Summit in Cornwall, U.K. from June 11-13. He'll then travel to Brussels, Belgium, to participate in the NATO Summit on June 14.

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1385614613039837184

    Makes the most sense wrt the G7 summit, I think Japan or Canada would have been first otherwise.
    Japan & Canada are doing very poorly in the vaccine stakes.
    I know - my eldest son and his wife in their mid fifties living in Vancouver have no idea when they may be vaccinated
    The contrast between the Canadian approach and the EU can be summed up by this.

    A while back, due to issues with the Pfizer plant in Europe, no doses were sent to Canada for a whole week. None. Zero.

    The Canadian response was to ask, politely, Pfizer what they (Canada) could do to help to speed up resumption of deliveries.
    That's the old stereotype though isn't it?

    Push a Canadian and they will apologise for it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,018
    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    European Super League contracts are LEAKED, revealing clubs pulling out face a £130MILLION 'break-up fee' - and haven't left yet, teams would broadcast matches themselves and Real Madrid and Barcelona were to be paid extra £52m more than their rivals

    German outlet Der Spiegel has released a few pages of the document, which was agreed to by the Premier League's 'Big Six', as well as three clubs from Italy and three from Spain before the controversial announcement last week.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9503959/European-Super-League-contracts-LEAKED-revealing-clubs-pulling-face-130m-fee.html

    Interesting to see they weren't even prepared to divide up the loot evenly.
    Looks like Barca and Real doing the same as they did to La Liga, but on a larger scale.
    Who could have predicted this?!

    Presumably the Americans didn’t care, because their investments would, they believed, have gone up in value. Why would they care about the clubs being treated worse than Real and Barca?
    I'd hate to be pedantic, but the value of Liverpool has increased from £320 million in 2010 to over £2 billion before the announcement of the ESL.
    And? What do you think the value of Liverpool would have been in the ESL? Substantially more, I’d suggest.
    Why would the club have gone up in value if its purpose had gone from competing in the richest and most competitive league in the world to being cannon fodder for Real Madrid and Barca?
    Basically Real and Barca wanted to set up a continent-wide version of the SPL. Liverpool would have been Europe's Dundee United.
    Well they wanted to stay in the PL remember. Clearly the owners thought they could make money out of this - it’s hard to see what other motivation could be behind it.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2021
    Hmm. I’ll wait for the verdict on Giggs, but it doesn’t look very good....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274

    MaxPB said:

    Breaking: President Biden will travel to the United Kingdom and Belgium in June 2021. This will be his first overseas travel.

    Biden will attend the G7 Summit in Cornwall, U.K. from June 11-13. He'll then travel to Brussels, Belgium, to participate in the NATO Summit on June 14.

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1385614613039837184

    Makes the most sense wrt the G7 summit, I think Japan or Canada would have been first otherwise.
    Japan & Canada are doing very poorly in the vaccine stakes.
    I know - my eldest son and his wife in their mid fifties living in Vancouver have no idea when they may be vaccinated
    Very sorry to hear that. Americans as a rule know little about Canada and care less. But here in Washington State, we think of British Columbia as our good neighbor. Indeed, we tend to like BC better than Oregon, thanks to lack of sporting rivalries. (Wonder IF this may change once Seattle Kraken start playing in the NHL against the Vancouver Canucks?)

    Possible that Canada's less-than-stellar vac performance is tipping the scales against PM Justin Trudeau and his Liberal minority government wanting to call or otherwise engineer a general election this year.
  • I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274

    Together with @eucopresident Michel, I will be happy to greet US @POTUS
    Biden in Brussels for the EU-US summit on his next trip to Europe in June 2021.

    We have much to do together, from climate change to health, from trade and multilateralism to geopolitical challenges.


    https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1385614997255073794?s=20

    Reports say "NATO Summit".......

    It's interesting that all the US press agencies reported that his first visit would be to the UK for the G7 and then the NATO summit and then we immediately get that from Ursula von der Leyen.
    UvdL may wish to curb her enthusiasm.

    Otherwise, she may find herself sitting on the carpet when she & the rest meet with Uncle Joe.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    That graph doesn't necessarily show what David Frum suggests.

    The argument is that poor health correlates with the individual's tendency to vote for Trump.

    But the graph shows that Trump improved on Romney's performance most in counties where average health was poor.

    One perfectly plausible explanation for that is that people in counties with poor health including - and perhaps particularly - those who are themselves in GOOD health, were particularly concerned about the costs of Obamacare because they are surrounded by people in poor health who are costly to treat. The individual mandate in Obamacare also isn't necessarily attractive for those in poor health in the sense that getting insurance is more costly.

    So those stats could easily reflect the voting impact of Obamacare, which is less salient in 2020, and quite likely to diminish even further as an issue in 2024. They don't necessarily mean "fatties for GOP" in any lasting sense.

    Spoilsport!
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,157

    Scott_xP said:

    Seeing how Johnson can travel back in time and pay for something he didn't in fact pay for at the time, could he go back to February 2020 and attend some COBRA meetings, March 2020 and stop himself shaking hands with everyone, April 2020 to extend the transition period, etc? https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1385606477730263044

    Boris is really tormenting you

    Someday he will lose office but I fear your torment may continue for quite some yet
    I can't speak for Scott, but as someone else who sees through Johnson I am not tormented by him, I actually find him funny in an idiotic way. He is what the current Tory party deserves. A man with no competence, no principles and no scruples, a political man in the Emperor's new clothes.

    I have no certainty (unlike other posters on here) but I think it likely it will eventually catch up with him. My schadenfreude when his gilded house of cards collapses will be short lived, because we will end up with a Labour government, but I will try and enjoy it as much as possible.

    If he does win the next election, well, from a selfish point of view, and in spite of the fact I do not make PPE or vacuum cleaners, more years of a conservative government may suit me just fine.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    TimT said:

    "With the structure of the American health system poorer people cannot get the heath coverage and assistance they need perhaps this is why the GOP tried to gut and sabotage the Affordable Care Act? It was an attempt to beget more GOP voters."

    This gets it completely the wrong way around. I am no fan of Obamacare, but it failed in states that did not fund it (GOP states), and hence health outcomes are worse in those states.

    Far from being a leading indicator (and hence useful for prediction), I fear this is a lagging indicator, i.e. the prediction is that health outcomes will be worse in GOP states, rather than poor health leads to voting GOP

    I was more thinking along the lines of being poor and in poor health means you're more receptive to a party that is prepared to shake things up/says the status quo isn't working. The disruptor candidate, as it were, and that candidate will improve your life.
    Maybe we can have a header that says being an arrogant, self-righteous pr1ck makes you more likely to vote Democrat *

    * Ps that is not aimed at you TSE
    May be an arrogant prick, but am NOT self-righteous about it!

    That's on Monday, Tuesday and Friday. Rest of the week, I'm self-righteous but NOT arrogant.

    Am also obese (or at least fat) and diabetic. Which perhaps explains my occasional conservatism?
    Haha, I certainly was not thinking of you SeaShanty for sure (and, to be fair, not really anyone on this site).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426

    MaxPB said:

    Breaking: President Biden will travel to the United Kingdom and Belgium in June 2021. This will be his first overseas travel.

    Biden will attend the G7 Summit in Cornwall, U.K. from June 11-13. He'll then travel to Brussels, Belgium, to participate in the NATO Summit on June 14.

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1385614613039837184

    Makes the most sense wrt the G7 summit, I think Japan or Canada would have been first otherwise.
    Japan & Canada are doing very poorly in the vaccine stakes.
    I know - my eldest son and his wife in their mid fifties living in Vancouver have no idea when they may be vaccinated
    The contrast between the Canadian approach and the EU can be summed up by this.

    A while back, due to issues with the Pfizer plant in Europe, no doses were sent to Canada for a whole week. None. Zero.

    The Canadian response was to ask, politely, Pfizer what they (Canada) could do to help to speed up resumption of deliveries.
    That's the old stereotype though isn't it?

    Push a Canadian and they will apologise for it.
    That tends to come from the less pleasant kind of Americans.. the ones who think the big macho thing is how the world really works.
  • MaxPB said:

    Breaking: President Biden will travel to the United Kingdom and Belgium in June 2021. This will be his first overseas travel.

    Biden will attend the G7 Summit in Cornwall, U.K. from June 11-13. He'll then travel to Brussels, Belgium, to participate in the NATO Summit on June 14.

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1385614613039837184

    Makes the most sense wrt the G7 summit, I think Japan or Canada would have been first otherwise.
    Japan & Canada are doing very poorly in the vaccine stakes.
    I know - my eldest son and his wife in their mid fifties living in Vancouver have no idea when they may be vaccinated
    Very sorry to hear that. Americans as a rule know little about Canada and care less. But here in Washington State, we think of British Columbia as our good neighbor. Indeed, we tend to like BC better than Oregon, thanks to lack of sporting rivalries. (Wonder IF this may change once Seattle Kraken start playing in the NHL against the Vancouver Canucks?)

    Possible that Canada's less-than-stellar vac performance is tipping the scales against PM Justin Trudeau and his Liberal minority government wanting to call or otherwise engineer a general election this year.
    Best not to mention Trudeau's name in the company of our son and daughter in law as their response would be swift and far from complimentary
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    TimT said:

    "With the structure of the American health system poorer people cannot get the heath coverage and assistance they need perhaps this is why the GOP tried to gut and sabotage the Affordable Care Act? It was an attempt to beget more GOP voters."

    This gets it completely the wrong way around. I am no fan of Obamacare, but it failed in states that did not fund it (GOP states), and hence health outcomes are worse in those states.

    Far from being a leading indicator (and hence useful for prediction), I fear this is a lagging indicator, i.e. the prediction is that health outcomes will be worse in GOP states, rather than poor health leads to voting GOP

    I was more thinking along the lines of being poor and in poor health means you're more receptive to a party that is prepared to shake things up/says the status quo isn't working. The disruptor candidate, as it were, and that candidate will improve your life.
    Maybe we can have a header that says being an arrogant, self-righteous pr1ck makes you more likely to vote Democrat *

    * Ps that is not aimed at you TSE
    May be an arrogant prick, but am NOT self-righteous about it!

    That's on Monday, Tuesday and Friday. Rest of the week, I'm self-righteous but NOT arrogant.

    Am also obese (or at least fat) and diabetic. Which perhaps explains my occasional conservatism?
    Haha, I certainly was not thinking of you SeaShanty for sure (and, to be fair, not really anyone on this site).
    Fair comment nonetheless!
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2021
    @Big_G_NorthWales

    “they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers”

    That is what is going to be necessary, though. Moving from the century of oil & gas to a zero-carbon century is going to require serious sacrifices.

    May as well be honest about it. People see through the political framing bullshit, and then get angry.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    I think you misunderstand - many Green are New Puritans.

    To them a world where the ordinary people will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars (and remain very expensive), eat less meat and completely renovate their homes at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers - that is what they *want*
  • Scott_xP said:

    Seeing how Johnson can travel back in time and pay for something he didn't in fact pay for at the time, could he go back to February 2020 and attend some COBRA meetings, March 2020 and stop himself shaking hands with everyone, April 2020 to extend the transition period, etc? https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1385606477730263044

    Boris is really tormenting you

    Someday he will lose office but I fear your torment may continue for quite some yet
    I can't speak for Scott, but as someone else who sees through Johnson I am not tormented by him, I actually find him funny in an idiotic way. He is what the current Tory party deserves. A man with no competence, no principles and no scruples, a political man in the Emperor's new clothes.

    I have no certainty (unlike other posters on here) but I think it likely it will eventually catch up with him. My schadenfreude when his gilded house of cards collapses will be short lived, because we will end up with a Labour government, but I will try and enjoy it as much as possible.

    If he does win the next election, well, from a selfish point of view, and in spite of the fact I do not make PPE or vacuum cleaners, more years of a conservative government may suit me just fine.
    A good post and one which I recognise as sensible
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272

    MaxPB said:

    Breaking: President Biden will travel to the United Kingdom and Belgium in June 2021. This will be his first overseas travel.

    Biden will attend the G7 Summit in Cornwall, U.K. from June 11-13. He'll then travel to Brussels, Belgium, to participate in the NATO Summit on June 14.

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1385614613039837184

    Makes the most sense wrt the G7 summit, I think Japan or Canada would have been first otherwise.
    Japan & Canada are doing very poorly in the vaccine stakes.
    I know - my eldest son and his wife in their mid fifties living in Vancouver have no idea when they may be vaccinated
    Very sorry to hear that. Americans as a rule know little about Canada and care less. But here in Washington State, we think of British Columbia as our good neighbor. Indeed, we tend to like BC better than Oregon, thanks to lack of sporting rivalries. (Wonder IF this may change once Seattle Kraken start playing in the NHL against the Vancouver Canucks?)

    Possible that Canada's less-than-stellar vac performance is tipping the scales against PM Justin Trudeau and his Liberal minority government wanting to call or otherwise engineer a general election this year.
    Partially. Canada's poor vaccine procurement is down to the Federal government.
    However, this is offset by some shambolic vaccine distribution and lockdown policies, which are the responsibility of the Provinces.
    The Liberals don't control a single major Province. And the two worst, Alberta and Ontario, are run by high profile Tories.
    So, I reckon, an early vote is feasible.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    This is proving a very entertaining stooshie, to borrow a term from our Scottish friends:

    https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,046
    Apparently the Tha's are trying to control the spread of Covid-19 with a Japanese antiviral, Favipiravir. Plus,the AZN vaccine, as well as a top-up with the Russian one.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2021
    Hell hath no fury.....

    https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/

    The Prime Minister’s DOC has also made accusations regarding me and leaks concerning the PM’s renovation of his flat. The PM stopped speaking to me about this matter in 2020 as I told him I thought his plans to have donors secretly pay for the renovation were unethical, foolish, possibly illegal and almost certainly broke the rules on proper disclosure of political donations if conducted in the way he intended. I refused to help him organise these payments. My knowledge about them is therefore limited. I would be happy to tell the Cabinet Secretary or Electoral Commission what I know concerning this matter.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,360
    Cummings says he told Boris Johnson plans "to have donors secretly pay for the renovation" of the PM's Downing Street flat "were unethical, foolish, possibly illegal and almost certainly broke the rules on proper disclosure of political donations" https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    “I told him that he could not possibly cancel an inquiry about a leak that affected millions of people, just because it might implicate his girlfriend’s friends”
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2021

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    Not just red wall voters. The UK cutting its emissions alone isn't going to go very far, you need to carry the Americans, Chinese, Indians etc with you too.

    If you want to carry the voters of Detroit with you, you're going to go further talking about investment and jobs than you are bunnies.

    The bunny huggers are already onside. The likes of Greta and David Attenborough don't need to be convinced that we need to take action. Its the others you're supposed to be convincing.

    I think there's a reason someone so immature and silly as Greta is the one who takes umbrage at it, rather than someone as mature and sensible as David Attenborough.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,157

    This is proving a very entertaining stooshie, to borrow a term from our Scottish friends:

    https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/

    haha, I love the line: "It is sad to see the PM and his office fall so far below the standards of competence and integrity the country deserves." This is from Dominic Cummings! That is like being accused of misogyny by Jack the Ripper
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380

    I understand Greta Thunberg is calling herself a 'bunny hugger' after Boris's comments yesterday

    These activists just do not understand that to tackle climate change they need to reach the ordinary voter who supports climate change, but when you tell them they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers, then there is little chance of their support

    I commented this morning on this and thought Rachel Burden of 5 live was so on the ball with her comments


    'Rachel Burden was interviewing a 'green activist' who largely welcomed HMG involvement in the debate but criticised Boris 'bunny hugging' moment

    However, Rachel's response was that he was not talking to activists like her, but to those less interested in climate change and that he was making the point it was not about 'bunny huggers' but a real opportunity for investment and jobs for the future

    Rachel and Boris seem to understand the red wall voters, far more than the metropolitan elite and climate enthusiasts

    I agree with the general point - and it makes me think of this cartoon:
    image
    (ref: https://www.gocomics.com/joelpett/2009/12/13)
    We need to focus on the opportunities, not on the hair shirts. And on the more tangible things that are also helpful - look at single use plastics for example and the progress made there; electric cars will detoxify the air in our cities which is a more tangible impact than long term effects on climate change

    However, on some of your specifics:
    - not be able to fly as much
    Well, maybe. Flying should certainly be taxed more in line with its carbon footprint. Flying is too cheap (I say this as someone who tries to use alternatives where they exist - they're almost always more expensive). But the long term solution is either greener aviation fuel or alternatives, e.g. high speed rail for more short haul
    - have to buy electric cars
    Yes, in due course. But they'll be as cheap to buy, cheaper to run, lower maintenance. There are some things to iron out (charging for people in flats for example) but really switch to electric cars is not a negative.
    - eat less meat
    Possibly. Also not really a bad thing (in my experience). But there's also more that can be done here on reducing carbon impacts of meat - it'll never ber as efficient as vegetarianism, but no one needs to stop eating meat completely. It's not really something to bang on about, other than maybe the tangible health benefits of going meat free a few days a week, with environmental benfits as a bonus
    - completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers
    This is not true. Electric boilers will be drop in retro-fit options for gas boilers. And this will only be done when the existing gas boiler fails. Running costs may be higher, but there won't be a big fitting cost (and it will only replace the gas replacement costs). Newbuilds will - and should - use other systems, direct electric heating, heat pumps etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,768

    This is proving a very entertaining stooshie, to borrow a term from our Scottish friends:

    https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/

    haha, I love the line: "It is sad to see the PM and his office fall so far below the standards of competence and integrity the country deserves." This is from Dominic Cummings! That is like being accused of misogyny by Jack the Ripper
    More like the Kray twins accusing each other of antisocial behaviour.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,253
    It’s clear that Starmer sees establishing the sleaze narrative as his best chance of a breakthrough; hence, his pressing the Dyson story despite the fact there really wasn’t much substance to it. But it looks as though DC has just handed him some rather better quality ammo.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Montie:

    Have to say that the Cummings’ statement is well written and seemingly comprehensive. It confirms he still has prominent allies inside Downing Street and doesn’t present the PM in a good light at all.

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1385627330857553920?s=20
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    ping said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    “they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers”

    That is what is going to be necessary, though. Moving from the century of oil & gas to a zero-carbon century is going to require serious sacrifices.

    May as well be honest about it. People see through the political framing bullshit, and then get angry.

    No it is not all what is going to be necessary (the electric car bit is) - and if it is necessary then it won't happen. Do you think the Chinese are going to choose not to fly just because we tell people they're killing pandas if they fly?

    The solution, the only solution that will work is clean technologies.

    Saying don't use power will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is some clean and affordable power, use this instead of coal" people will listen to.

    Saying don't fly will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is a newly designed clean and affordable plane, use this instead of jet fuel" people will listen to.

    Saying "don't eat meat" will not work. People won't listen to you. Full stop, I see no alternative to this one, the line is drawn here. Maybe find a way to offset against it because meat is happening.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,360

    It’s clear that Starmer sees establishing the sleaze narrative as his best chance of a breakthrough; hence, his pressing the Dyson story despite the fact there really wasn’t much substance to it. But it looks as though DC has just handed him some rather better quality ammo.

    ...


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,360

    ...
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,157
    Nigelb said:

    This is proving a very entertaining stooshie, to borrow a term from our Scottish friends:

    https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/

    haha, I love the line: "It is sad to see the PM and his office fall so far below the standards of competence and integrity the country deserves." This is from Dominic Cummings! That is like being accused of misogyny by Jack the Ripper
    More like the Kray twins accusing each other of antisocial behaviour.
    A bit unfair on the Kray twins I would say.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426

    ping said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    “they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers”

    That is what is going to be necessary, though. Moving from the century of oil & gas to a zero-carbon century is going to require serious sacrifices.

    May as well be honest about it. People see through the political framing bullshit, and then get angry.

    No it is not all what is going to be necessary (the electric car bit is) - and if it is necessary then it won't happen. Do you think the Chinese are going to choose not to fly just because we tell people they're killing pandas if they fly?

    The solution, the only solution that will work is clean technologies.

    Saying don't use power will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is some clean and affordable power, use this instead of coal" people will listen to.

    Saying don't fly will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is a newly designed clean and affordable plane, use this instead of jet fuel" people will listen to.

    Saying "don't eat meat" will not work. People won't listen to you. Full stop, I see no alternative to this one, the line is drawn here. Maybe find a way to offset against it because meat is happening.
    Artificial meat will be a mainstream, cheap product inside a decade.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,271

    This is proving a very entertaining stooshie, to borrow a term from our Scottish friends:

    https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/

    Gosh. Well worth a read. For Dom to commit all that to print suggests he's really got it in for his old boss. It's pretty damning. Does anybody know what's happened to Henry Newman? He hasn't tweeted this year, and seems to have gone off the radar.

    Those looking for evidence of a dysfunctional regime at No. 10 can find a fair bit in Dom's blog.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,366
    edited April 2021
    FFS...

    Six Extinction Rebellion protesters have been cleared of causing criminal damage, despite jurors being told by the judge there was no defence in law.

    With the exception of Mr Saunders - who claimed he honestly believed Shell's employees and shareholders would have consented to the damage he caused

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-56853979

    The take away, smashing up a building isn't a criminal offense if you claim you were doing so to save the planet.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,157

    This is proving a very entertaining stooshie, to borrow a term from our Scottish friends:

    https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/

    Gosh. Well worth a read. For Dom to commit all that to print suggests he's really got it in for his old boss. It's pretty damning. Does anybody know what's happened to Henry Newman? He hasn't tweeted this year, and seems to have gone off the radar.

    Those looking for evidence of a dysfunctional regime at No. 10 can find a fair bit in Dom's blog.
    can we expect to see Bozo on the steps of No10 shouting "infamy infamy, they've all got it in for me"
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    I think there's a very significant element in the "Green" movement who will be very disappointed when we reach Net Zero to have nothing further to berate us for.

    No doubt they'll find some other reason instead of carbon that we need to abolish capitalism, stop consumption and basically go back centuries for instead of carbon.

    Because its not really about the environment for some people.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,271

    This is proving a very entertaining stooshie, to borrow a term from our Scottish friends:

    https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/

    haha, I love the line: "It is sad to see the PM and his office fall so far below the standards of competence and integrity the country deserves." This is from Dominic Cummings! That is like being accused of misogyny by Jack the Ripper
    The PM and his office lack standards, competence, integrity etc.
    So does Dominic Cummings, with knobs on.
    Both things can be true at the same time.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    UK cases by specimen date

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    UK case summary

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  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,157

    ping said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    “they will not be able to fly as much, have to buy electric cars, eat less meat and completely renovate their home at vast expense to eradicate gas boilers”

    That is what is going to be necessary, though. Moving from the century of oil & gas to a zero-carbon century is going to require serious sacrifices.

    May as well be honest about it. People see through the political framing bullshit, and then get angry.

    No it is not all what is going to be necessary (the electric car bit is) - and if it is necessary then it won't happen. Do you think the Chinese are going to choose not to fly just because we tell people they're killing pandas if they fly?

    The solution, the only solution that will work is clean technologies.

    Saying don't use power will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is some clean and affordable power, use this instead of coal" people will listen to.

    Saying don't fly will not work. People won't listen to you. Saying "here is a newly designed clean and affordable plane, use this instead of jet fuel" people will listen to.

    Saying "don't eat meat" will not work. People won't listen to you. Full stop, I see no alternative to this one, the line is drawn here. Maybe find a way to offset against it because meat is happening.
    Artificial meat will be a mainstream, cheap product inside a decade.
    An interesting thought. Can artificial meat taste like roast rib of beef? Or will it taste more like a Quorn veggie sausage?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    UK Hospitals

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    UK deaths

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  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,137

    “I told him that he could not possibly cancel an inquiry about a leak that affected millions of people, just because it might implicate his girlfriend’s friends”

    How wrong and naive Cummings was. Of course "Boris" can do as he pleases.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    Age related data

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,360
    Ladbrokes: 5/1 for Boris Johnson to be replaced as PM this year. https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1385630972016828420/photo/1
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    FFS...

    Six Extinction Rebellion protesters have been cleared of causing criminal damage, despite jurors being told by the judge there was no defence in law.

    With the exception of Mr Saunders - who claimed he honestly believed Shell's employees and shareholders would have consented to the damage he caused

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-56853979

    The take away, smashing up a building isn't a criminal offense if you claim you were doing so to save the planet.

    I think this is a rubbish decision by the jury, but on a point of principle I do think jury nullification is an option that they need to have as a backstop for more deserving cases.

    It's also undeniably a bit amusing that one defendant already pled guilty and then watched his comrades get away with it despite having no defence at all.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,157

    This is proving a very entertaining stooshie, to borrow a term from our Scottish friends:

    https://dominiccummings.com/2021/04/23/statement-regarding-no10-claims-today/

    haha, I love the line: "It is sad to see the PM and his office fall so far below the standards of competence and integrity the country deserves." This is from Dominic Cummings! That is like being accused of misogyny by Jack the Ripper
    The PM and his office lack standards, competence, integrity etc.
    So does Dominic Cummings, with knobs on.
    Both things can be true at the same time.
    Indeed. My old Mum (RIP) used to say "You judge a man by the company he keeps". Very true in Johnson's case.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    Age related data scaled to 100K population

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  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    Dom is back. Hooray!
This discussion has been closed.