I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
We are commenting on an obscure internet blog, not texting Cabinet Ministers...
The only point in your posts is to attack Boris while at the same time he grows in popularity
It must be very annoying
Of course Johnson grows in popularity. Everything this government says or does has but one objective - into crease Johnson's personal popularity.
The rights and wrongs of policy decisions do not matter in the slightest. Johnson is concerned with only one person. And his image.
That is no way to run a country.
It is an absolute outrage. Boris keeps getting the big decisions right and what he does is popular leaving those who have an irrational hatred of the man gnashing their teeth in despair. Surely there has to be an ECHR angle to this? Its not fair that people like @Scott_xP and @RochdalePioneers are reduced to complaining about a tax break given to engineers coming to this country to save lives. Its just demeaning for them. Something must be done.
Except, there is short term long term...
1. As the government are not going to underwrite the huge debt football is now in, torpedoing footballs best money making schemes out of that debt is a courageous political decision.
2. Don’t you feel at all there is going to be a third wave of Covid here, on the basis that’s how it works, it comes and goes in waves, places that don’t even lock down it flows and ebbs over them - as it ebbs we might be fooling ourselves it’s something we done, fooling ourselves we won’t get it bad again?
If scientifically I am right, the political message has to align with it? Which it isn’t.
Boris was clear in his prezzer yesterday that he expects a third wave in the Autumn and was once again clear that we are going to have to learn to live with Covid, we will not eliminate it. The controversial vaccine certificate scheme was being floated as a possible way of facilitating some of that living. but not in a way that Boris couldn't tiptoe back from if it proves unpopular. So I think in this case the messaging is now pretty much aligned with reality as best as we can judge it. The BBC commented that early in the pandemic Boris had consistently focused on the upside and the possible and had used the word "alas" a lot in subsequent presentations. The consensus was that was no longer the case and he is being more cautious.
If the vaccine programme proceeds as planned, and takeup is as good as looks likely, it isn't clear why we would have an autumn wave - at least in terms of symptoms of any seriousness.
He's still trying to maximise vaccination take-up by keeping his finger on the fear button.
Of course, but PB'ers are replaying the same tune as if it is fact.
Applying some thought before repeating anything that comes from the mouth of our current PM would seem sensible, whatever your politics.
1) Maximise vaccination take-up - squeeze that lemon 2) Impregnate the narrative that we have to live with Covid to some extent (mitigate not eradicate) 3) remove legal restrictions (but some guidance will remain) 3) Cease financial assistance as per Sunak timetable and start to repair nation's finances 4) Covid test for all international arrivals to protect from incoming as best we can that is reasonable. 5) Lay down protocols and funding for if this ever happens again
This seems to be the plan, leading to a kind of normality. You agree?
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
LOL will you be happy when FSG cut their losses because the asset they bought turned out to be far from what they were sold? maybe they don't want to be 'temporay custodians'
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
It is going to be an unimaginably massive story - but based on 99.9999% speculation. 24 hour rolling news will be mental. "Where is this life in the Universe? Are they more like Alien - or Predator? What will this news do to house prices? We go over now to Meghan Markle for an in-depth interview on what it means for the Royal family....."
We are going to lose or shit. Be a good time to bury bad news though...
Things we can't quite explain isn't really prove of aliens from elsewhere...
That would require metals or compounds no one has a clue how to make or organic matter that has little to do with us.
If you know of a metal or compound that can withstand 150Gs in earth’s atmosphere, then there’s a world of materials scientists that would like to hear from you.
I have some on my desk: iron meteorites do that all the time.
Do meteorites really decelerate at that level without going poot?
Hell, didn't Romain Grosjean decelerate at 67G in his crash?
If you can do that with a meat bag and only mildly ding it....
“He hates to say no, so he says yes to all sorts of ideas and then other people have to sort it out later,” says a friend.
This has been a consistent feature of the way he takes decisions. He wants to appear up-beat and can do, and is frequently enthusiastic about things that then never transpire, but still cost money and waste other people’s time.
And so, £2.6m was spent on the daily briefing centre. Boris didn’t want to let down Allegra having initially said yes. For months Number 10 denied the daily briefing plan was for the chop; it was merely delayed by the winter wave of Covid. Now the plan has been chopped. Well done everyone.
1. As the government are not going to underwrite the huge debt football is now in, torpedoing footballs best money making schemes out of that debt is a courageous political decision.
Why aren't they? That would be #classicjohnson.
Watch the money flood out of English football now.
And watch Lineker and co wailing then about where all the investors have gone......wah wah.
Well you and those idiots Johnson and Dowden turned their assets into 'temporary custodianship'.
So be it were that the case.
But it won't be as the Premier League is the premier league around the world for a reason.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
They've apologised for being caught with their pants down. Many fans are not simply going to forget what happened this week though.
Governing bodies are unlikely to forget either, they'll be looking hard at the available sporting sanctions and 'fit and proper' tests on shareholders and chairpersons.
TBH I'm expecting the twelve clubs involved to be banned from UEFA competitions for two or three years.
The myth that May could have agreed a softer Brexit ignores the reality that she would have been replaced before the ink was dry .
The problems started when Brexiters changed the goalposts and after having won the referendum decided to push for the hardest version . Leavers polled after the vote had varying views but there was never a majority at that point for a hard Brexit .
As long as freedom of movement was stopped it seemed that was enough . May should have made that the centre point but in her desperation to prove her Brexit credentials went down the harder route .
Alternatively, maybe you can concoct a counterfactual (note: you can't) whereby Labour had managed to have a non-insane leader like, say, Kier Starmer ending up in charge of the country.
No, but you can absolutely concoct a counterfactual where a Tory other than BoZo won the leadership election, or one where BoZo was removed by a Tory party that cared about the fact he is a Clown.
There were other paths less disastrous than the one the fanbois continue to cheer.
If Jeremy Hunt had won the leadership election ... he would also have dully followed sage advice most of the time. (I say this as someone who, in the unusual counterfactual that I was a member of the Tory party back at the last leadership election, would have voted for him.) But again, he might not have diverged from the EU on vaccine procurement.
For me, the key player would have been Rory Stewart, who had worked through a previous pandemic and got the danger of rapid exponential growth. The week or so between the collapse of testing and lockdown contained an awful lot of the wave 1 infections and hence deaths. And I'm sure he would have stayed on under Hunt.
France is running at about half the UK's rate (10% vs 20%) Germany about a fifth (4% vs 20%)
The UK has similar excess rates to Spain, Italy and Poland. Even though we're probably largely done and they probably aren't, I'm not sure they are comparators to shout from the rooftops.
ETA: And now I must do some actual remunerative work. Shout at me if you see me here again.
The inexcusable fuck up was allowing covid to be imported a second time during the summer.
And this answers @IanB2 's question above. We will have a 3rd wave because a new mutation of the pox gets imported from countries not even close to having mass vaccination. At the moment the issue has been that we have the doors wide open to let people fly in with mutant pox. But in a month or so's time we're going to allow people to fly abroad on holibobs, and that was a great way of reimporting it last time.
I don't see that the general populace is going to allow the current restrictions to continue much longer - they want a holiday. But that just means them coming back again later.
The UK has already had a third wave - there's a clear difference between the second autumn wave imported from holidays and the third winter wave from the Kent variant (though that too may have been imported).
But there are risks of a fourth from imported variants.
Alternatively, maybe you can concoct a counterfactual (note: you can't) whereby Labour had managed to have a non-insane leader like, say, Kier Starmer ending up in charge of the country.
No, but you can absolutely concoct a counterfactual where a Tory other than BoZo won the leadership election, or one where BoZo was removed by a Tory party that cared about the fact he is a Clown.
There were other paths less disastrous than the one the fanbois continue to cheer.
The reason we have the PM we do now, is because the hardcore Remoaners couldn't bring themselves to vote for Mrs May's deal.
A tricky one for me there Sandpit because you are absolutely right, but I am a Remoaner and if I had been an MP I would not have voted for May's deal.
It's not (just) about May's deal - when Letwin was doing his best to get Parliament to take over the agenda to push forward compromise options like CM2 or CU, the government refused to participate and most of the remainers voted against everything except a second vote. Whilst the path from a successful Letwin option through to a different outcome wouldn't have been a smooth one, it would have opened paths to a range of alternative universes - including one where the government changed tack and itself went for a softer path, rather than sit and be humiliated as backbenchers took over the agenda.
That morning when the press coverage headlined on parliament voting against everything was the moment we got landed with hard Brexit, and the moment when the reputation of the last parliament self-destructed.
The biggest mistake by the remainers wasn't refusing to back May but refusing to back Letwin.
The biggest mistake by remainers was not doing what they had been told by the British people. Many of them paid for that mistake with their careers and rightfully so.
That is undoubtedly true, but isn't the major flaw in the referendum process itself as none of us knew what we were voting for anyway as the range of Brexit options was wide and huge. There are valid pros and cons to a very hard Brexit and a very soft Brexit which are very different.
I'm not sure how that could have been resolved. Maybe an 'in principle vote' followed by a specific vote after negotiations to confirm what is on offer.
The way the EU have behaved towards us post Brexit tells a lot about their snakery. Being in or out largely depends if you felt it was better being on the outside pissing in or on the inside pissing out. I voted Remain, but the perfidious EU makes me feel that whatever the cost now, stay out.
I'm sure quite a few feel like that. I wonder if it is more nuanced though? I perceive there are two issues namely:
a) Applying the rules - we seem to be upset that we have to do what we agreed to and the Eu is doing the same. The politicians make out it is those nasty Eurocrats. They are blaming the EU for what they agreed to.
b) The vaccine cockup by the EU - Clearly we have done very well on this front and the EU badly. The EU made it worse week after week by keep digging the hole they created and boy did they keep digging.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
They've apologised for being caught with their pants down. Many fans are not simply going to forget what happened this week though.
Governing bodies are unlikely to forget either, they'll be looking hard at the available sporting sanctions and 'fit and proper' tests on shareholders and chairpersons.
TBH I'm expecting the twelve clubs involved to be banned from UEFA competitions for two or three years.
Also from the Guardian blog...
Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin has welcomed the news that more clubs have withdrawn from the planned breakaway league and appeared to rule out any sanctions...
“I said yesterday that it is admirable to admit a mistake and these clubs made a big mistake. But they are back in the fold now and I know they have a lot to offer not just to our competitions but to the whole of the European game.
“The important thing now is that we move on, rebuild the unity that the game enjoyed before this and move forward together.”
And...
That doesn’t exactly scream ‘Uefa sanctions’.
I think the leagues will also want to pretend this never happened. A bit like that Red Dwarf episode where they've had their memories wiped:
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
It is going to be an unimaginably massive story - but based on 99.9999% speculation. 24 hour rolling news will be mental. "Where is this life in the Universe? Are they more like Alien - or Predator? What will this news do to house prices? We go over now to Meghan Markle for an in-depth interview on what it means for the Royal family....."
We are going to lose or shit. Be a good time to bury bad news though...
Things we can't quite explain isn't really prove of aliens from elsewhere...
That would require metals or compounds no one has a clue how to make or organic matter that has little to do with us.
If you know of a metal or compound that can withstand 150Gs in earth’s atmosphere, then there’s a world of materials scientists that would like to hear from you.
I have some on my desk: iron meteorites do that all the time.
Do meteorites really decelerate at that level without going poot?
Hell, didn't Romain Grosjean decelerate at 67G in his crash?
If you can do that with a meat bag and only mildly ding it....
1. As the government are not going to underwrite the huge debt football is now in, torpedoing footballs best money making schemes out of that debt is a courageous political decision.
Why aren't they? That would be #classicjohnson.
Watch the money flood out of English football now.
And watch Lineker and co wailing then about where all the investors have gone......wah wah.
Well you and those idiots Johnson and Dowden turned their assets into 'temporary custodianship'.
So be it were that the case.
But it won't be as the Premier League is the premier league around the world for a reason.
We'll see.
The Prem is the prem chiefly because it has a good share of the world's best players.
Watch them take a hike when the money runs out.
And watch the same loudmouths protesting about how its their club wailing about that when the time comes.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
We are commenting on an obscure internet blog, not texting Cabinet Ministers...
The only point in your posts is to attack Boris while at the same time he grows in popularity
It must be very annoying
Of course Johnson grows in popularity. Everything this government says or does has but one objective - into crease Johnson's personal popularity.
The rights and wrongs of policy decisions do not matter in the slightest. Johnson is concerned with only one person. And his image.
That is no way to run a country.
It is an absolute outrage. Boris keeps getting the big decisions right and what he does is popular leaving those who have an irrational hatred of the man gnashing their teeth in despair. Surely there has to be an ECHR angle to this? Its not fair that people like @Scott_xP and @RochdalePioneers are reduced to complaining about a tax break given to engineers coming to this country to save lives. Its just demeaning for them. Something must be done.
Except, there is short term long term...
1. As the government are not going to underwrite the huge debt football is now in, torpedoing footballs best money making schemes out of that debt is a courageous political decision.
2. Don’t you feel at all there is going to be a third wave of Covid here, on the basis that’s how it works, it comes and goes in waves, places that don’t even lock down it flows and ebbs over them - as it ebbs we might be fooling ourselves it’s something we done, fooling ourselves we won’t get it bad again?
If scientifically I am right, the political message has to align with it? Which it isn’t.
Boris was clear in his prezzer yesterday that he expects a third wave in the Autumn and was once again clear that we are going to have to learn to live with Covid, we will not eliminate it. The controversial vaccine certificate scheme was being floated as a possible way of facilitating some of that living. but not in a way that Boris couldn't tiptoe back from if it proves unpopular. So I think in this case the messaging is now pretty much aligned with reality as best as we can judge it. The BBC commented that early in the pandemic Boris had consistently focused on the upside and the possible and had used the word "alas" a lot in subsequent presentations. The consensus was that was no longer the case and he is being more cautious.
If the vaccine programme proceeds as planned, and takeup is as good as looks likely, it isn't clear why we would have an autumn wave - at least in terms of symptoms of any seriousness.
Given the natural R number for COVID, it will spread through the unvaccinated like a chainsaw through cheese.
The vaccines are very defective at preventing serious disease, but they *seem* to be less effective at preventing transmission - it may well be that the vaccines are, in effect, turning COVID into the Flu. Something that is not dangerous to the vaccinated, but still spreads very easily.
If the transmission continues, and COVID doesn't die out from herd immunity, then the deaths/hospitalisations will be low to non-existent among the vaccinated, but there will be a mini-epidemic among the unvaccinated.
Given the composition of the group that doesn't *want* to be vaccinated.... that is going to produce some ugly headlines, I think.
'defective' is surely a typo?!?
In the UK we're talking about a tiny percentage, surely - well below the level that would threaten herd immunity
Phone auto-incorrect
It's not about threatening herd immunity.
What I think will happen, is that the vaccines will protect those who take them. So we have a world where all the adults (and probably all the children) who take the vaccine are protected. Awesome.
However, they may still spread the virus. Which means that it will circulate. And inevitably find the groups that are not vaccinated.
The unvaccinated will then do the dying.
Given that vaccination resistance is correlated with belonging to an ethnic minority - this means that the third wave will hit ethnic minorities especially hard.
The myth that May could have agreed a softer Brexit ignores the reality that she would have been replaced before the ink was dry .
The problems started when Brexiters changed the goalposts and after having won the referendum decided to push for the hardest version . Leavers polled after the vote had varying views but there was never a majority at that point for a hard Brexit .
As long as freedom of movement was stopped it seemed that was enough . May should have made that the centre point but in her desperation to prove her Brexit credentials went down the harder route .
The rest is history .
What did May do that was unnecessarily "harder"?
What should she have done that stopped freedom of movement if that is your red line (and it was May's) that May didn't do?
Having that as the starting point, May's deal and the backstop left us with an flaccid Brexit.
1. As the government are not going to underwrite the huge debt football is now in, torpedoing footballs best money making schemes out of that debt is a courageous political decision.
Why aren't they? That would be #classicjohnson.
Watch the money flood out of English football now.
And watch Lineker and co wailing then about where all the investors have gone......wah wah.
Well you and those idiots Johnson and Dowden turned their assets into 'temporary custodianship'.
So be it were that the case.
But it won't be as the Premier League is the premier league around the world for a reason.
We'll see.
The Prem is the prem chiefly because it has a good share of the world's best players.
Watch them take a hike when the money runs out.
And watch the same loudmouths protesting about how its their club wailing about that when the time comes.
Most of the money comes from the TV rights.
The only reason why any premiership clubs are in debt is they've either borrowed money to get back into the premiership or the owners are using it as a cash cow.
I'm not going to be harsh on Johnson over Dyson. Corners will be cut during a pandemic. The bigger problem as with Cameron is the lack of probity in general. But he is who he is. We know what he is. A lifelong philanderer without any scruples. There isn't much point complaining. The task is for others to come up with something better.
'The task is for others to come up with something better.'
And in that short sentence you have summed up Boris opponents
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
They've apologised for being caught with their pants down. Many fans are not simply going to forget what happened this week though.
Governing bodies are unlikely to forget either, they'll be looking hard at the available sporting sanctions and 'fit and proper' tests on shareholders and chairpersons.
TBH I'm expecting the twelve clubs involved to be banned from UEFA competitions for two or three years.
Also from the Guardian blog...
Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin has welcomed the news that more clubs have withdrawn from the planned breakaway league and appeared to rule out any sanctions...
“I said yesterday that it is admirable to admit a mistake and these clubs made a big mistake. But they are back in the fold now and I know they have a lot to offer not just to our competitions but to the whole of the European game.
“The important thing now is that we move on, rebuild the unity that the game enjoyed before this and move forward together.”
And...
That doesn’t exactly scream ‘Uefa sanctions’.
I think the leagues will also want to pretend this never happened. A bit like that Red Dwarf episode where they've had their memories wiped:
Interesting if UEFA do just try and forget about it, and quite surprising.
I'd have thought they'd want to at least hand out some punishment, if only to stop the same thing happening again in a few years' time.
But I've been wrong on most of this story in the past couple of days, was positive that the rebel clubs did actually intend to follow through on their plans.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
Alternatively, maybe you can concoct a counterfactual (note: you can't) whereby Labour had managed to have a non-insane leader like, say, Kier Starmer ending up in charge of the country.
No, but you can absolutely concoct a counterfactual where a Tory other than BoZo won the leadership election, or one where BoZo was removed by a Tory party that cared about the fact he is a Clown.
There were other paths less disastrous than the one the fanbois continue to cheer.
If Jeremy Hunt had won the leadership election ... he would also have dully followed sage advice most of the time. (I say this as someone who, in the unusual counterfactual that I was a member of the Tory party back at the last leadership election, would have voted for him.) But again, he might not have diverged from the EU on vaccine procurement.
For me, the key player would have been Rory Stewart, who had worked through a previous pandemic and got the danger of rapid exponential growth. The week or so between the collapse of testing and lockdown contained an awful lot of the wave 1 infections and hence deaths. And I'm sure he would have stayed on under Hunt.
France is running at about half the UK's rate (10% vs 20%) Germany about a fifth (4% vs 20%)
The UK has similar excess rates to Spain, Italy and Poland. Even though we're probably largely done and they probably aren't, I'm not sure they are comparators to shout from the rooftops.
ETA: And now I must do some actual remunerative work. Shout at me if you see me here again.
The inexcusable fuck up was allowing covid to be imported a second time during the summer.
And this answers @IanB2 's question above. We will have a 3rd wave because a new mutation of the pox gets imported from countries not even close to having mass vaccination. At the moment the issue has been that we have the doors wide open to let people fly in with mutant pox. But in a month or so's time we're going to allow people to fly abroad on holibobs, and that was a great way of reimporting it last time.
I don't see that the general populace is going to allow the current restrictions to continue much longer - they want a holiday. But that just means them coming back again later.
The UK has already had a third wave - there's a clear difference between the second autumn wave imported from holidays and the third winter wave from the Kent variant (though that too may have been imported).
But there are risks of a fourth from imported variants.
Depends where you live
On a lot of criteria Leicester is either about to enter it's 4th wave (as India hurries back before 4am Friday) or enter the 14th month of it's 1st wave.
Would it have been better that we didn’t make this change and he didn’t do the work to try and help out in the pandemic?
It would have been better to have paid taxes due. Once you establish that helping party donors to avoid paying taxes is in the national interest there is little left to say. Remember that in the same period they have zealously gone after UC claimants to recoup years old money which HMRC had just discovered was paid in error.
One rule for the little people, another rule for Tory donors. Yet you insist your friends and party are above reproach when it comes to financial standards.
Taxes due would have been zero if he stayed wherever he lives
He came to help the UK
He asked that those days didn’t count towards the 90 day limit
That really is the sum total of it
No - you are missing the point. No extra tax would have been payable if those coming over had stayed less than 90 days. (Couldn't the engineers have done much of the design back in Singapore? Why was it actually necessary for them to be physically present here?) So this was not necessary in order to allow the ventilator work to be done - on the assumption that they didn't need to stay in the UK for more than 3 months. It was only necessary because it might have prevented those people from later coming to work or visit in the U.K. in this tax year thus taking them over the 90 day limit. That further work might well have been nothing to do with the pandemic. Or it might just have been social visits. So why should it be exempt from tax?
These companies were not doing the government a favour. They weren't acting like a charity or volunteers. They were being paid handsomely for their work. They should price the contract appropriately to take account of their costs, including any tax liabilities, arising from the fact that as a result of their decision, freely taken, they have sought to base themselves and employ people based outside the U.K.
Actions have consequences but all too many rich people like lecturing others about this but do not want to apply this simple principle to themselves. That's what annoys.
How many should he have saved? I see nowhere comparable where no one has died.
Our deaths figure is likely to be at the worse end of the table, simply because of the big mistake made with care homes back at the beginning of the crisis. But on cases, we're now mid table and if these third waves pick up around the world, could end up in the better half of the statistics. Whereas our headstart on vaccine supply gave us a one-off advantage, it looks like it'll be our very low levels of vaccine hesitancy, compared to both the US and Europe, that could prove decisive.
I also think we have been remarkably 'honest' in our deaths reporting. Excess deaths tells a different story. I am not claiming we have done ''well' whatever that means. We have made enormous wrong calls, not least the care homes as you say (although I think that partly lies at the hands of hospitals trying to clear the decks in advance, trying to avoid what they had seen from Italy). The issue with the inevitable inquiry will be that people have already made up their minds.
I'm always sceptical when it comes to these claims that our data is somehow better. Reminds me of an M&S advert, "it's not just data, but British data...". Of course there are countries where their figures are likely suspect, but we fool ourselves if we imagine that other developed nations aren't capable of managing their statistics as well as we are. You see the same coming from Americans, and it isn't credible from them either.
You can challenge our data on the grounds that we're counting people with positive tests during the four weeks prior, but not people who die with obvious symptoms but no test, or people who die after the 28 days.
Excess deaths isn't a gold standard because there are so many other factors, including the age profile of the population and the effect of lockdown, particularly travel restrictions reducing deaths on the road.
It is better, I do this for a living and the ONS regularly creates rods for its (our) own back by going over and above what is necessary. GDP is another area, on the internationally comparable measure the UK had a -4.8% economic contraction, under the ONS reported fogure it was -9.8%, there's literally no need for the latter figure, it's no more accurate than the former just calculated differently and attempts to measure the public sector with output factors rather than inputs like the rest of the word does it while also using the index method of measurement rather than what every single other country does which compares the absolute number to last year's absolute number
Ultimately it makes no difference as we can see on the ground the economy is doing just fine and bouncing back nicely. It just creates a really unnecessary narrative of the UK being the worst in certain measures when the reality is that we just use unnecessarily tough ones. It's classic civil service naivete.
Bottom line is that the care home mistake was a big one that cost us a lot of lives. A mistake also made by Belgium and the Netherlands, which is little consolation. Whatever the final score, we could have saved lives by testing people before pushing them from hospital back into care, and by equipping our care homes more effectively to face the pandemic from the off.
Everything else is likely noise - for sure, decisions like the f**k up over Christmas, the single day back at schools in January, or with travel at various times, almost certainly pushed up our total case numbers and therefore impacted on deaths, but then similar misjudgements were being made by countries all over the world, and you'll never see the difference in outcome in the data, rough and ready as it is. If I were conducting the inquiry I'd be particularly critical where we have been slow to learn, or indeed willingly made the same mistake twice. Which we've done several times.
The care home thing is also one of those things were I suspect other countries did the same but didn't have a problem because they released patients a week before Covid hit the hospital rather than afterwards.
It was a silly mistake to make and one we really do need to make sure we don't do again but even as I look at it from here it's hard to see how you could release hospital beds without creating similar issues.
It will be, at the end of the month, 18 years since I ceased to be concerned, on daily basis, with the interface between care homes and hospitals. It was lumpy or scratchy at best then, and have seen nothing to suggest to me that the situation has improved. Indeed, if anything, it seems to have deteriorated.
1. As the government are not going to underwrite the huge debt football is now in, torpedoing footballs best money making schemes out of that debt is a courageous political decision.
Why aren't they? That would be #classicjohnson.
Watch the money flood out of English football now.
And watch Lineker and co wailing then about where all the investors have gone......wah wah.
Well you and those idiots Johnson and Dowden turned their assets into 'temporary custodianship'.
I don't think anyone has seriously argued that the money flowing into English football over the past 30 years has improved things for anyone except the players and their agents.
It is going to be an unimaginably massive story - but based on 99.9999% speculation. 24 hour rolling news will be mental. "Where is this life in the Universe? Are they more like Alien - or Predator? What will this news do to house prices? We go over now to Meghan Markle for an in-depth interview on what it means for the Royal family....."
We are going to lose or shit. Be a good time to bury bad news though...
Things we can't quite explain isn't really prove of aliens from elsewhere...
That would require metals or compounds no one has a clue how to make or organic matter that has little to do with us.
If you know of a metal or compound that can withstand 150Gs in earth’s atmosphere, then there’s a world of materials scientists that would like to hear from you.
I have some on my desk: iron meteorites do that all the time.
Do meteorites really decelerate at that level without going poot?
Hell, didn't Romain Grosjean decelerate at 67G in his crash?
If you can do that with a meat bag and only mildly ding it....
A missile that accelerated at 100G - there was a prototype that did about 250G for another system, IIRC
The Russian Gazelle ABM is supposed to do about 200G, again, IIRC.
Grosjean was only for a fraction of a seconds, though.
But surely the point is that meteorites are not designed for that kind of exposure, and most of the small to medium ones burn up in our atmosphere? in fact, isn't one of the key features of Earth as a life-bearing planet the fact that civilisation does not get killed off every time our orbit intersects with that of an asteroid, and it's only the big ones that get through (albeit much reduced in size)?
Thinking the owners have "learnt their lesson" over this is as naive as I was thinking noone would ever take drugs in sport again when Ben Johnson was caught in 1988.
We are commenting on an obscure internet blog, not texting Cabinet Ministers...
The only point in your posts is to attack Boris while at the same time he grows in popularity
It must be very annoying
Of course Johnson grows in popularity. Everything this government says or does has but one objective - into crease Johnson's personal popularity.
The rights and wrongs of policy decisions do not matter in the slightest. Johnson is concerned with only one person. And his image.
That is no way to run a country.
It is an absolute outrage. Boris keeps getting the big decisions right and what he does is popular leaving those who have an irrational hatred of the man gnashing their teeth in despair. Surely there has to be an ECHR angle to this? Its not fair that people like @Scott_xP and @RochdalePioneers are reduced to complaining about a tax break given to engineers coming to this country to save lives. Its just demeaning for them. Something must be done.
Except, there is short term long term...
1. As the government are not going to underwrite the huge debt football is now in, torpedoing footballs best money making schemes out of that debt is a courageous political decision.
2. Don’t you feel at all there is going to be a third wave of Covid here, on the basis that’s how it works, it comes and goes in waves, places that don’t even lock down it flows and ebbs over them - as it ebbs we might be fooling ourselves it’s something we done, fooling ourselves we won’t get it bad again?
If scientifically I am right, the political message has to align with it? Which it isn’t.
Boris was clear in his prezzer yesterday that he expects a third wave in the Autumn and was once again clear that we are going to have to learn to live with Covid, we will not eliminate it. The controversial vaccine certificate scheme was being floated as a possible way of facilitating some of that living. but not in a way that Boris couldn't tiptoe back from if it proves unpopular. So I think in this case the messaging is now pretty much aligned with reality as best as we can judge it. The BBC commented that early in the pandemic Boris had consistently focused on the upside and the possible and had used the word "alas" a lot in subsequent presentations. The consensus was that was no longer the case and he is being more cautious.
If the vaccine programme proceeds as planned, and takeup is as good as looks likely, it isn't clear why we would have an autumn wave - at least in terms of symptoms of any seriousness.
Given the natural R number for COVID, it will spread through the unvaccinated like a chainsaw through cheese.
The vaccines are very defective at preventing serious disease, but they *seem* to be less effective at preventing transmission - it may well be that the vaccines are, in effect, turning COVID into the Flu. Something that is not dangerous to the vaccinated, but still spreads very easily.
If the transmission continues, and COVID doesn't die out from herd immunity, then the deaths/hospitalisations will be low to non-existent among the vaccinated, but there will be a mini-epidemic among the unvaccinated.
Given the composition of the group that doesn't *want* to be vaccinated.... that is going to produce some ugly headlines, I think.
'defective' is surely a typo?!?
In the UK we're talking about a tiny percentage, surely - well below the level that would threaten herd immunity
Phone auto-incorrect
It's not about threatening herd immunity.
What I think will happen, is that the vaccines will protect those who take them. So we have a world where all the adults (and probably all the children) who take the vaccine are protected. Awesome.
However, they may still spread the virus. Which means that it will circulate. And inevitably find the groups that are not vaccinated.
The unvaccinated will then do the dying.
Given that vaccination resistance is correlated with belonging to an ethnic minority - this means that the third wave will hit ethnic minorities especially hard.
With the added risk of allowing a week of inbound travel to thousands wanting to get out of India without proper quarantining.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
Err, you do realise Liverpool are in danger of being relegated this season?
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
Bollocks. "I'm sorry that we tried to kill football to enrich ourselves and got caught". Not a fit and proper owner. None of them are.
This is an example of people love to believe what they want to hear whether it is true or not. The apology is just nonsense, the owners were briefing the media they expected the "legacy" fans to hate it but they could push it through regardless to attract younger fans in Asia, so to say they never intended to proceed without the fans support is simply untrue. Untrue apologies are not much kop.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
They've apologised for being caught with their pants down. Many fans are not simply going to forget what happened this week though.
Governing bodies are unlikely to forget either, they'll be looking hard at the available sporting sanctions and 'fit and proper' tests on shareholders and chairpersons.
TBH I'm expecting the twelve clubs involved to be banned from UEFA competitions for two or three years.
So if UEFA ban the clubs from competitions and, as a self righteous club director of a premier league club has demanded, the premier league deduct points I’m assuming these clubs that were not part of the ESL will refuse to take their places in the UEFA competitions if they qualify due to others having points deducted - considering the outcry that you have to “earn it on the pitch” and all that?
Also the innocent suits at UEFA might just for once decide to care about money and their self interest and realise that Champions league without Real, Barca, Manchesters, Liverpool etc etc is not going to be as attractive financially - if it was they wouldn’t have given a monkey’s about those teams leaving their competition right?
Would it have been better that we didn’t make this change and he didn’t do the work to try and help out in the pandemic?
It would have been better to have paid taxes due. Once you establish that helping party donors to avoid paying taxes is in the national interest there is little left to say. Remember that in the same period they have zealously gone after UC claimants to recoup years old money which HMRC had just discovered was paid in error.
One rule for the little people, another rule for Tory donors. Yet you insist your friends and party are above reproach when it comes to financial standards.
Taxes due would have been zero if he stayed wherever he lives
He came to help the UK
He asked that those days didn’t count towards the 90 day limit
That really is the sum total of it
No - you are missing the point. No extra tax would have been payable if those coming over had stayed less than 90 days. (Couldn't the engineers have done much of the design back in Singapore? Why was it actually necessary for them to be physically present here?) So this was not necessary in order to allow the ventilator work to be done - on the assumption that they didn't need to stay in the UK for more than 3 months. It was only necessary because it might have prevented those people from later coming to work or visit in the U.K. in this tax year thus taking them over the 90 day limit. That further work might well have been nothing to do with the pandemic. Or it might just have been social visits. So why should it be exempt from tax?
These companies were not doing the government a favour. They weren't acting like a charity or volunteers. They were being paid handsomely for their work. They should price the contract appropriately to take account of their costs, including any tax liabilities, arising from the fact that as a result of their decision, freely taken, they have sought to base themselves and employ people based outside the U.K.
Actions have consequences but all too many rich people like lecturing others about this but do not want to apply this simple principle to themselves. That's what annoys.
Did Dyson bill the Government for the work they did?
I don't think any of the firms working on ventilator systems did.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
They've apologised for being caught with their pants down. Many fans are not simply going to forget what happened this week though.
Governing bodies are unlikely to forget either, they'll be looking hard at the available sporting sanctions and 'fit and proper' tests on shareholders and chairpersons.
TBH I'm expecting the twelve clubs involved to be banned from UEFA competitions for two or three years.
Also from the Guardian blog...
Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin has welcomed the news that more clubs have withdrawn from the planned breakaway league and appeared to rule out any sanctions...
“I said yesterday that it is admirable to admit a mistake and these clubs made a big mistake. But they are back in the fold now and I know they have a lot to offer not just to our competitions but to the whole of the European game.
“The important thing now is that we move on, rebuild the unity that the game enjoyed before this and move forward together.”
And...
That doesn’t exactly scream ‘Uefa sanctions’.
I think the leagues will also want to pretend this never happened. A bit like that Red Dwarf episode where they've had their memories wiped:
Interesting if UEFA do just try and forget about it, and quite surprising.
I'd have thought they'd want to at least hand out some punishment, if only to stop the same thing happening again in a few years' time.
But I've been wrong on most of this story in the past couple of days, was positive that the rebel clubs did actually intend to follow through on their plans.
Its quite logical for UEFA to take the moral high ground here and move on without sanctions. From UEFA's perspective they've won and won big, the idea of a Super League isn't a new concept its been debated and threatend for decades and in 48 hours they've smashed it into tiny pieces and made it unthinkable. The clubs have ran back in 48 hours meekly with their tails between their legs. If UEFA take the high ground now they've got exactly what they wanted and are more secure than they've been in decades.
If however there are sanctions then whether justified or not that will cause resentment. More particularly it means that if the clubs choose to do this again, they're going to ensure that facing the threat of sanctions that second time around they do it right and don't have to end up back sanctioned with UEFA again.
UEFA have won here and won unequivocally. They've no reason to drag this out any further.
Thinking the owners have "learnt their lesson" over this is as naive as I was thinking noone would ever take drugs in sport again when Ben Johnson was caught in 1988.
The big lesson for Real, Barca and Juve is to not announce anything until it's impossible for the English to pull out. Serious exit penalties basically.
Would it have been better that we didn’t make this change and he didn’t do the work to try and help out in the pandemic?
It would have been better to have paid taxes due. Once you establish that helping party donors to avoid paying taxes is in the national interest there is little left to say. Remember that in the same period they have zealously gone after UC claimants to recoup years old money which HMRC had just discovered was paid in error.
One rule for the little people, another rule for Tory donors. Yet you insist your friends and party are above reproach when it comes to financial standards.
Taxes due would have been zero if he stayed wherever he lives
He came to help the UK
He asked that those days didn’t count towards the 90 day limit
That really is the sum total of it
No - you are missing the point. No extra tax would have been payable if those coming over had stayed less than 90 days. (Couldn't the engineers have done much of the design back in Singapore? Why was it actually necessary for them to be physically present here?) So this was not necessary in order to allow the ventilator work to be done - on the assumption that they didn't need to stay in the UK for more than 3 months. It was only necessary because it might have prevented those people from later coming to work or visit in the U.K. in this tax year thus taking them over the 90 day limit. That further work might well have been nothing to do with the pandemic. Or it might just have been social visits. So why should it be exempt from tax?
These companies were not doing the government a favour. They weren't acting like a charity or volunteers. They were being paid handsomely for their work. They should price the contract appropriately to take account of their costs, including any tax liabilities, arising from the fact that as a result of their decision, freely taken, they have sought to base themselves and employ people based outside the U.K.
Actions have consequences but all too many rich people like lecturing others about this but do not want to apply this simple principle to themselves. That's what annoys.
You're missing the point. They weren't paid handsomely for their work, they did this at a loss. This was done in a national emergency to help the country and save lives and everything else - taxes, profit etc was set aside to do the right thing first.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
It's not about relegation from the PL, it's about the risk of Liverpool failing to qualify for the Champions League and the significant loss of revenue resulting from that. The greedy owners were trying to make sure that Liverpool could not fail to qualify for the CL/ESL.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
They've apologised for being caught with their pants down. Many fans are not simply going to forget what happened this week though.
Governing bodies are unlikely to forget either, they'll be looking hard at the available sporting sanctions and 'fit and proper' tests on shareholders and chairpersons.
TBH I'm expecting the twelve clubs involved to be banned from UEFA competitions for two or three years.
The classic UEFA move could be to ban them from three years, but suspended and only applies if they leave again.....
An interesting, and under-analysed question, is why our vaccine hesitancy levels are so remarkably low.
You could argue that there's a conformist streak in our national character - but very clearly also a non-conformist/individualistic one, and I doubt there's anything particularly unique about the British in our nature that explains why we've all gone along with the vaccine programme.
A part of the explanation must lie with our media (and the information they have received from SAGE and government) - despite all the criticism of the British media, particularly early in the crisis, it's where most people got their information from, and our population seems relatively free of the quackery that has spooked people elsewhere, especially the rubbish circulating in the US.
There were plenty of anecdotal reports of people initially saying they would refuse the vaccine - I know a couple myself - who ended up meekly going along with it. Perhaps the way the storyline played out in the UK, with our relative success in getting vaccines out and running very early - helped persuade people that it was a good thing? Yet the US hasn't been far behind us (certainly ahead of most of the world) and yet many of their states are already running into vaccine reluctance, only just having reached half the population.
The most likely explanation ISTM is that the biggest single factor is the level-headed, objective and neutral coverage and worldwide perspective of our very own BBC. In particular we have an advantage over the Americans in that our media does take a global view and I bet Brits are a lot better informed about how things played out in other countries than are Americans. We are also helped by the depth and breadth of trust we have in the NHS.
Also the fact that politics hasn't interfered, and the vaccine programme hasn't become politicised in the way that it has in the US.
Interesting question. Much though it doesn't particularly suit me to reach this conclusion - as I find the worship of the NHS as an institution* misguided - I think the remarkably high level of trust in the NHS is part of the reason for this. Even if we don't expect the NHS to provide good customer service, or even particularly competent, we do have faith that it is On Our Side. Therefore, if the NHS says something is the right thing to do, we trust it - in a way that other countries perhaps don't.
*note 'as an institution' - I was as full of awe as the next man, during the early months of the pandemic, for the bravery and selflessness of individual nurses and doctors and other staff.
1. As the government are not going to underwrite the huge debt football is now in, torpedoing footballs best money making schemes out of that debt is a courageous political decision.
Why aren't they? That would be #classicjohnson.
Watch the money flood out of English football now.
And watch Lineker and co wailing then about where all the investors have gone......wah wah.
Well you and those idiots Johnson and Dowden turned their assets into 'temporary custodianship'.
So be it were that the case.
But it won't be as the Premier League is the premier league around the world for a reason.
We'll see.
The Prem is the prem chiefly because it has a good share of the world's best players.
Watch them take a hike when the money runs out.
And watch the same loudmouths protesting about how its their club wailing about that when the time comes.
The money will only run out if Sky or BT sports withdraw their sponsorship
Even then the Premier League is the best in the world and other broadcasters would step in, ie Amazon, Disney, etc
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
It's not about relegation from the PL, it's about the risk of Liverpool failing to qualify for the Champions League and the significant loss of revenue resulting from that. The greedy owners were trying to make sure that Liverpool could not fail to quality for the CL/ESL.
It's a classic tactic of Philip Thompson, try to deflect from the real issue at hand, which, as you say, is relegation from the Champions League.
Would it have been better that we didn’t make this change and he didn’t do the work to try and help out in the pandemic?
It would have been better to have paid taxes due. Once you establish that helping party donors to avoid paying taxes is in the national interest there is little left to say. Remember that in the same period they have zealously gone after UC claimants to recoup years old money which HMRC had just discovered was paid in error.
One rule for the little people, another rule for Tory donors. Yet you insist your friends and party are above reproach when it comes to financial standards.
Taxes due would have been zero if he stayed wherever he lives
He came to help the UK
He asked that those days didn’t count towards the 90 day limit
That really is the sum total of it
No - you are missing the point. No extra tax would have been payable if those coming over had stayed less than 90 days. (Couldn't the engineers have done much of the design back in Singapore? Why was it actually necessary for them to be physically present here?) So this was not necessary in order to allow the ventilator work to be done - on the assumption that they didn't need to stay in the UK for more than 3 months. It was only necessary because it might have prevented those people from later coming to work or visit in the U.K. in this tax year thus taking them over the 90 day limit. That further work might well have been nothing to do with the pandemic. Or it might just have been social visits. So why should it be exempt from tax?
These companies were not doing the government a favour. They weren't acting like a charity or volunteers. They were being paid handsomely for their work. They should price the contract appropriately to take account of their costs, including any tax liabilities, arising from the fact that as a result of their decision, freely taken, they have sought to base themselves and employ people based outside the U.K.
Actions have consequences but all too many rich people like lecturing others about this but do not want to apply this simple principle to themselves. That's what annoys.
You're missing the point. They weren't paid handsomely for their work, they did this at a loss. This was done in a national emergency to help the country and save lives and everything else - taxes, profit etc was set aside to do the right thing first.
Quite right too.
They would have been paid had their ventilator design been fit for purpose and been ordered. As Faisal Islam reports, there seemed to be an odd leaning towards non-competent JCB and Dyson (Brexit supporting Tory donors) over the others which seems inextricable...
It is going to be an unimaginably massive story - but based on 99.9999% speculation. 24 hour rolling news will be mental. "Where is this life in the Universe? Are they more like Alien - or Predator? What will this news do to house prices? We go over now to Meghan Markle for an in-depth interview on what it means for the Royal family....."
We are going to lose or shit. Be a good time to bury bad news though...
Things we can't quite explain isn't really prove of aliens from elsewhere...
That would require metals or compounds no one has a clue how to make or organic matter that has little to do with us.
If you know of a metal or compound that can withstand 150Gs in earth’s atmosphere, then there’s a world of materials scientists that would like to hear from you.
I have some on my desk: iron meteorites do that all the time.
Do meteorites really decelerate at that level without going poot?
Hell, didn't Romain Grosjean decelerate at 67G in his crash?
If you can do that with a meat bag and only mildly ding it....
A missile that accelerated at 100G - there was a prototype that did about 250G for another system, IIRC
The Russian Gazelle ABM is supposed to do about 200G, again, IIRC.
Grosjean was only for a fraction of a seconds, though.
But surely the point is that meteorites are not designed for that kind of exposure, and most of the small to medium ones burn up in our atmosphere? in fact, isn't one of the key features of Earth as a life-bearing planet the fact that civilisation does not get killed off every time our orbit intersects with that of an asteroid, and it's only the big ones that get through (albeit much reduced in size)?
We live under a rain of meteorites. Quite a lot burn up, But many tons reach the surface every day.
The stress of reentry causes most to break up.
But plenty of stuff not designed for re-entry makes it to the surface - spherical tanks from satellites are quite common. Given that they were originally filled with hydrazine (quite often).....
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
It's not about relegation from the PL, it's about the risk of Liverpool failing to qualify for the Champions League and the significant loss of revenue resulting from that. The greedy owners were trying to make sure that Liverpool could not fail to quality for the CL/ESL.
But again relegation is not a concept they are familiar with. To them that's normal.
The reaction in the UK is one of horror and outrage and I joined in with that. The one in America is "what's the big deal".
Sometimes things are different on different sides of the pond. If you can't see that, frankly you're being rather for want of a better word racist.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
Err, you do realise Liverpool are in danger of being relegated this season?
I know they're below West Ham, but there's no danger of anything worse.
Would it have been better that we didn’t make this change and he didn’t do the work to try and help out in the pandemic?
It would have been better to have paid taxes due. Once you establish that helping party donors to avoid paying taxes is in the national interest there is little left to say. Remember that in the same period they have zealously gone after UC claimants to recoup years old money which HMRC had just discovered was paid in error.
One rule for the little people, another rule for Tory donors. Yet you insist your friends and party are above reproach when it comes to financial standards.
Taxes due would have been zero if he stayed wherever he lives
He came to help the UK
He asked that those days didn’t count towards the 90 day limit
That really is the sum total of it
No - you are missing the point. No extra tax would have been payable if those coming over had stayed less than 90 days. (Couldn't the engineers have done much of the design back in Singapore? Why was it actually necessary for them to be physically present here?) So this was not necessary in order to allow the ventilator work to be done - on the assumption that they didn't need to stay in the UK for more than 3 months. It was only necessary because it might have prevented those people from later coming to work or visit in the U.K. in this tax year thus taking them over the 90 day limit. That further work might well have been nothing to do with the pandemic. Or it might just have been social visits. So why should it be exempt from tax?
These companies were not doing the government a favour. They weren't acting like a charity or volunteers. They were being paid handsomely for their work. They should price the contract appropriately to take account of their costs, including any tax liabilities, arising from the fact that as a result of their decision, freely taken, they have sought to base themselves and employ people based outside the U.K.
Actions have consequences but all too many rich people like lecturing others about this but do not want to apply this simple principle to themselves. That's what annoys.
You're missing the point. They weren't paid handsomely for their work, they did this at a loss. This was done in a national emergency to help the country and save lives and everything else - taxes, profit etc was set aside to do the right thing first.
Quite right too.
They would have been paid had their ventilator design been fit for purpose and been ordered. As Faisal Islam reports, there seemed to be an odd leaning towards non-competent JCB and Dyson (Brexit supporting Tory donors) over the others which seems inextricable...
The Tories will be using the "because Pandemic" excuse for giving money to their mates for years to come. It's nothing more than a shameless ruse.
One thing that is a likely consequence of the ESL fiasco is that huge transfer fees and players wages (Pogba currently seeking £500,000 a week) are over as clubs come to terms with the lost income due to covid and the years of overspend
How many should he have saved? I see nowhere comparable where no one has died.
Our deaths figure is likely to be at the worse end of the table, simply because of the big mistake made with care homes back at the beginning of the crisis. But on cases, we're now mid table and if these third waves pick up around the world, could end up in the better half of the statistics. Whereas our headstart on vaccine supply gave us a one-off advantage, it looks like it'll be our very low levels of vaccine hesitancy, compared to both the US and Europe, that could prove decisive.
The thing that people misunderstand are the cultural issues behind this. The same culture that led the powerful NHS to be able to move patients to the disjointed care sector, is the same culture that leads to huge trust in healthcare and therefore vaccination levels.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
It's not about relegation from the PL, it's about the risk of Liverpool failing to qualify for the Champions League and the significant loss of revenue resulting from that. The greedy owners were trying to make sure that Liverpool could not fail to quality for the CL/ESL.
But again relegation is not a concept they are familiar with. To them that's normal.
The reaction in the UK is one of horror and outrage and I joined in with that. The one in America is "what's the big deal".
Sometimes things are different on different sides of the pond. If you can't see that, frankly you're being rather for want of a better word racist.
When FSG bought Liverpool, you were not in the Champions League. You were promoted to it for the 2014-15 season. And then relegated. And then promoted again in 2016-17. And this season you may go down.
Absolutely damn right, during a pandemic you do whatever it takes to get the medical equipment we need.
You'd rather people die than Boris does his job wouldn't you?
Those deaths would have been on James Dyson.
The absolute gall of you people defending him for putting his own (despicable) tax arrangements above people's lives.
Sums up everything that is wrong with 21st century capitalism.
You what?
If employees working in and based in Singapore had stayed in Singapore, rather than coming to the UK and working not-for-profit to save lives in the UK, then how would that have put deaths on his head?
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
Err, you do realise Liverpool are in danger of being relegated this season?
I know they're below West Ham, but there's no danger of anything worse.
That's the point. West Ham! In the Champions League!
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
Err, you do realise Liverpool are in danger of being relegated this season?
I know they're below West Ham, but there's no danger of anything worse.
Some think the Premier League will demote the clubs or place a huge points deduction on them
Absolutely damn right, during a pandemic you do whatever it takes to get the medical equipment we need.
You'd rather people die than Boris does his job wouldn't you?
Those deaths would have been on James Dyson.
The absolute gall of you people defending him for putting his own (despicable) tax arrangements above people's lives.
Sums up everything that is wrong with 21st century capitalism.
You what?
If employees working in and based in Singapore had stayed in Singapore, rather than coming to the UK and working not-for-profit to save lives in the UK, then how would that have put deaths on his head?
"I refuse to come to my own country and save lives of my compatriots unless you change the law to protect my tax arrangements, Boris".
Imagine someone actually saying that.
Then imagine defending someone who said that.
Christ on a bike, there's no morals left whatsoever.
I thought these people were supposed to believe in Britain and the British people?
Government moving mountains to get their hands on medical equipment during a global pandemic, really isn't the big story she thinks it is.
Hang on. Getting the ventilators isn't the issue. Paying tax is. Lets assume a made up number for the tax bill - £500k. Dyson could compensate the employees (and "senior individuals") for the tax paid. And add the £500k on to the contract value if he wanted to.
We *have* to have tax transparency where foreign-based companies pay due taxes in the UK. Whether they are Tory donors or not.
That isn't the issue though. Dyson wasn't attempting to profit from it. He just wanted to ensure that the company and staff would not be penalised for overstaying in the UK to achieve a positive aim.
I have no problem with this. Both Boris and Dyson were trying to do the right thing and didn't want to be caught out by rules not intended for these special circumstances.
I have campaigned for a defence against against penalties for breaking laws that have unforeseen consequences. We must of all come across 'jobs worths' who have applied rules correctly no matter how irrational they were in the circumstances.
The only criticism here is it is one rule for Dyson and another for the rest of us because there isn't a defence for the rest of us.
Typical crooked Tory parasites, would not even have cost him a day's interest on his fortune. Their greed is unbounded, never think of doing anything for good , always just greed.
1. As the government are not going to underwrite the huge debt football is now in, torpedoing footballs best money making schemes out of that debt is a courageous political decision.
Why aren't they? That would be #classicjohnson.
Watch the money flood out of English football now.
And watch Lineker and co wailing then about where all the investors have gone......wah wah.
Well you and those idiots Johnson and Dowden turned their assets into 'temporary custodianship'.
So be it were that the case.
But it won't be as the Premier League is the premier league around the world for a reason.
We'll see.
The Prem is the prem chiefly because it has a good share of the world's best players.
Watch them take a hike when the money runs out.
And watch the same loudmouths protesting about how its their club wailing about that when the time comes.
None of these American owners have invested anything. Liverpool runs at an annual profit, Man United has been bled dry by the Glazers and Kroenke is a permanent leech on Arsenal's balance sheet. We lose literally nothing from the Premier League if they decide to sell up, in fact it would be a net gain for the whole division and English football as $130m per season stops getting leeched out to the US.
You have got no understanding of football finance.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
It's not about relegation from the PL, it's about the risk of Liverpool failing to qualify for the Champions League and the significant loss of revenue resulting from that. The greedy owners were trying to make sure that Liverpool could not fail to quality for the CL/ESL.
But again relegation is not a concept they are familiar with. To them that's normal.
The reaction in the UK is one of horror and outrage and I joined in with that. The one in America is "what's the big deal".
Sometimes things are different on different sides of the pond. If you can't see that, frankly you're being rather for want of a better word racist.
When FSG bought Liverpool, you were not in the Champions League. You were promoted to it for the 2014-15 season. And then relegated. And then promoted again in 2016-17. And this season you may go down.
They are very familiar with relegation.
Now you're just being facetious.
Nobody talks about the Champions League as an actual League, or says someone has been relegated from it.
This was a proposed actual League, but without relegation. No different to what is normal where they come from.
Shame you're too closed-minded to put aside mistakes people from other nation's make when they apologise.
Thinking the owners have "learnt their lesson" over this is as naive as I was thinking noone would ever take drugs in sport again when Ben Johnson was caught in 1988.
That was definitely a moment when sport lost some of its magic, to a ten-year-old me, who thought he had just seen the greatest race of all time.
Thankfully there was never a shadow of doubt over Usain Bolt's performances a couple of decades later, he was just a freak of a human being.
I think a further Sindyref inevitable, it is just a matter of timing. Having an outline agreed between Westminster and Holyrood of what Indy Scotland would be like would be a useful lesson to learn from the post Brexit fiasco.
Which is why it won't happen.
BoZo can't demand a detailed manifesto after all his bullshit for Brexit
It must be ever so painful for you that despite all your comments Boris gets more popular by the day and today many European newspapers are blaming him for the collapse of the ESL
He will wear that badge with pride
Boris 2 - Europe 0
I don't think stopping English teams playing in a Super League wins Boris any votes in Scotland.
Actually the SNP were wholly behind Boris as the ESL would have affected football across the UK
Who was invited to join from Scotland then, or who would have been impacted.
Boris was clear in his prezzer yesterday that he expects a third wave in the Autumn and was once again clear that we are going to have to learn to live with Covid, we will not eliminate it. The controversial vaccine certificate scheme was being floated as a possible way of facilitating some of that living. but not in a way that Boris couldn't tiptoe back from if it proves unpopular. So I think in this case the messaging is now pretty much aligned with reality as best as we can judge it. The BBC commented that early in the pandemic Boris had consistently focused on the upside and the possible and had used the word "alas" a lot in subsequent presentations. The consensus was that was no longer the case and he is being more cautious.
The scientists seem clear that Covid isn't going to miraculously disappear on 21st June as billed. When restrictions carry on an awful lot of people who take the PM at face value (helped along by the friendly press) are going to be mightily pissed off.
We're 13 months into this, and I wouldn't be surprised if another year down the line we aren't still enjoying Covid restrictions of some kind. I hope not, but hope isn't enough, nor is mass vaccination of the UK population against the existing strain.
Realistically there's not a huge amount more that we can do to protect ourselves after we've all been double-dosed. And, the vaccines work so well that the worst-case scenario for Covid will then be a lot less severe than a bad flu season.
So there's no justification for any (domestic) restrictions at that point. We get vaccinated and then the Emergency (at least domestically) is over - though of course the public health professionals will keep working on reducing the risks further with boosters against variants, etc.
I'd keep travel restrictions until other countries are also vaccinated. Apart from anything else it would provide more motivation to us to help that happen as quickly as possible.
Absolutely damn right, during a pandemic you do whatever it takes to get the medical equipment we need.
You'd rather people die than Boris does his job wouldn't you?
Those deaths would have been on James Dyson.
The absolute gall of you people defending him for putting his own (despicable) tax arrangements above people's lives.
Sums up everything that is wrong with 21st century capitalism.
You what?
If employees working in and based in Singapore had stayed in Singapore, rather than coming to the UK and working not-for-profit to save lives in the UK, then how would that have put deaths on his head?
"I refuse to come to my own country and save lives of my compatriots unless you change the law to protect my tax arrangements, Boris".
Imagine someone actually saying that.
Then imagine defending someone who said that.
Christ on a bike, there's no morals left whatsoever.
I thought these people were supposed to believe in Britain and the British people?
Imagine defending a position where you'd rather watch people die than give a tax break to the person who could save their lives.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
Err, you do realise Liverpool are in danger of being relegated this season?
I know they're below West Ham, but there's no danger of anything worse.
Some think the Premier League will demote the clubs or place a huge points deduction on them
I do not see either to be honest
The penalty should be legally tie them into the PL (FL if relegated) for the next 23 years.....or leave now.
Absolutely damn right, during a pandemic you do whatever it takes to get the medical equipment we need.
You'd rather people die than Boris does his job wouldn't you?
Those deaths would have been on James Dyson.
The absolute gall of you people defending him for putting his own (despicable) tax arrangements above people's lives.
Sums up everything that is wrong with 21st century capitalism.
You what?
If employees working in and based in Singapore had stayed in Singapore, rather than coming to the UK and working not-for-profit to save lives in the UK, then how would that have put deaths on his head?
"I refuse to come to my own country and save lives of my compatriots unless you change the law to protect my tax arrangements, Boris".
Imagine someone actually saying that.
Then imagine defending someone who said that.
Christ on a bike, there's no morals left whatsoever.
I thought these people were supposed to believe in Britain and the British people?
Considering it was for his employees, not simply him, then yes an employer looking after their employees to ensure they aren't unfairly penalised for helping someone out is entirely reasonable.
He may not have refused to come here but some of his employees might if they were going to be onerously taxed as a result. Who knows.
Either way there's no harm no foul here. Had the country not asked them to come here, not for profit, to help out during an emergency there would have never been any tax due in the first place.
You're putting your own hate and rage first here yet again. Try not to be such an angry young man.
In fact, if Dyson's employees payed more tax as a result of coming back to Britain (oh the humanity), then Dyson was free to top-up their remuneration as a COVID bonus to make up for it.
But of course it's up to the British tax payer to ensure that no loss was suffered whatosever.
What on earth happened to charity? What on earth happened to civic duty?
Government moving mountains to get their hands on medical equipment during a global pandemic, really isn't the big story she thinks it is.
Hang on. Getting the ventilators isn't the issue. Paying tax is. Lets assume a made up number for the tax bill - £500k. Dyson could compensate the employees (and "senior individuals") for the tax paid. And add the £500k on to the contract value if he wanted to.
We *have* to have tax transparency where foreign-based companies pay due taxes in the UK. Whether they are Tory donors or not.
That isn't the issue though. Dyson wasn't attempting to profit from it. He just wanted to ensure that the company and staff would not be penalised for overstaying in the UK to achieve a positive aim.
I have no problem with this. Both Boris and Dyson were trying to do the right thing and didn't want to be caught out by rules not intended for these special circumstances.
I have campaigned for a defence against against penalties for breaking laws that have unforeseen consequences. We must of all come across 'jobs worths' who have applied rules correctly no matter how irrational they were in the circumstances.
The only criticism here is it is one rule for Dyson and another for the rest of us because there isn't a defence for the rest of us.
Typical crooked Tory parasites, would not even have cost him a day's interest on his fortune. Their greed is unbounded, never think of doing anything for good , always just greed.
Don't often disagree with you Malcolm but I do here. It is his employees who would have suffered. I guess he could have made it up, but I think it is a reasonable request. The unusual circumstances meant they would be breaking the time limits for staying in the UK potentially and not for their own benefit.
In fact, if Dyson's employees payed more tax as a result of coming back to Britain (oh the humanity), then Dyson was free to top-up their remuneration as a COVID bonus to make up for it.
But of course it's up to the British tax payer to ensure that no loss was suffered whatosever.
What on earth happened to charity? What on earth happened to civic duty?
Shameless.
They did it for charity. They did it for civic duty. They did it not for profit. 🤦♂️
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
It's not about relegation from the PL, it's about the risk of Liverpool failing to qualify for the Champions League and the significant loss of revenue resulting from that. The greedy owners were trying to make sure that Liverpool could not fail to quality for the CL/ESL.
But again relegation is not a concept they are familiar with. To them that's normal.
The reaction in the UK is one of horror and outrage and I joined in with that. The one in America is "what's the big deal".
Sometimes things are different on different sides of the pond. If you can't see that, frankly you're being rather for want of a better word racist.
When FSG bought Liverpool, you were not in the Champions League. You were promoted to it for the 2014-15 season. And then relegated. And then promoted again in 2016-17. And this season you may go down.
They are very familiar with relegation.
Now you're just being facetious.
Nobody talks about the Champions League as an actual League, or says someone has been relegated from it.
This was a proposed actual League, but without relegation. No different to what is normal where they come from.
Shame you're too closed-minded to put aside mistakes people from other nation's make when they apologise.
Okay, I'm not continuing to talk about this with you.
I think the intelligent people on here will see how fucking dumb you're being.
Absolutely damn right, during a pandemic you do whatever it takes to get the medical equipment we need.
You'd rather people die than Boris does his job wouldn't you?
Those deaths would have been on James Dyson.
The absolute gall of you people defending him for putting his own (despicable) tax arrangements above people's lives.
Sums up everything that is wrong with 21st century capitalism.
You what?
If employees working in and based in Singapore had stayed in Singapore, rather than coming to the UK and working not-for-profit to save lives in the UK, then how would that have put deaths on his head?
"I refuse to come to my own country and save lives of my compatriots unless you change the law to protect my tax arrangements, Boris".
Imagine someone actually saying that.
Then imagine defending someone who said that.
Christ on a bike, there's no morals left whatsoever.
I thought these people were supposed to believe in Britain and the British people?
Imagine defending a position where you'd rather watch people die than give a tax break to the person who could save their lives.
Oh, wait. I don't have to imagine.
If Dyson employees were unwilling to come back to the UK to help the nation during a pandemic, I'm sure there were plenty of companies and employees in the UK who would have been wiling to do the work.
Why does the work have to come from Boris's mates?
A bit of a shame TSE didn’t get the Agricola into the lead as TUD asked.
‘They create a wilderness and call it peace’ would be a pretty fair summary of Sturgeon’s administration over the last three years.
That is bollox, please advise where I can get information on this wilderness you speak of. Talking crap about stuff from outside is pretty pathetic. Halfwits on here witter on about Scotland and know the square root of F all about it.
An interesting, and under-analysed question, is why our vaccine hesitancy levels are so remarkably low.
You could argue that there's a conformist streak in our national character - but very clearly also a non-conformist/individualistic one, and I doubt there's anything particularly unique about the British in our nature that explains why we've all gone along with the vaccine programme.
A part of the explanation must lie with our media (and the information they have received from SAGE and government) - despite all the criticism of the British media, particularly early in the crisis, it's where most people got their information from, and our population seems relatively free of the quackery that has spooked people elsewhere, especially the rubbish circulating in the US.
There were plenty of anecdotal reports of people initially saying they would refuse the vaccine - I know a couple myself - who ended up meekly going along with it. Perhaps the way the storyline played out in the UK, with our relative success in getting vaccines out and running very early - helped persuade people that it was a good thing? Yet the US hasn't been far behind us (certainly ahead of most of the world) and yet many of their states are already running into vaccine reluctance, only just having reached half the population.
The most likely explanation ISTM is that the biggest single factor is the level-headed, objective and neutral coverage and worldwide perspective of our very own BBC. In particular we have an advantage over the Americans in that our media does take a global view and I bet Brits are a lot better informed about how things played out in other countries than are Americans. We are also helped by the depth and breadth of trust we have in the NHS.
Also the fact that politics hasn't interfered, and the vaccine programme hasn't become politicised in the way that it has in the US.
Interesting question. Much though it doesn't particularly suit me to reach this conclusion - as I find the worship of the NHS as an institution* misguided - I think the remarkably high level of trust in the NHS is part of the reason for this. Even if we don't expect the NHS to provide good customer service, or even particularly competent, we do have faith that it is On Our Side. Therefore, if the NHS says something is the right thing to do, we trust it - in a way that other countries perhaps don't.
*note 'as an institution' - I was as full of awe as the next man, during the early months of the pandemic, for the bravery and selflessness of individual nurses and doctors and other staff.
I'd also posit that the disgracing of Wakefield has something to do with it (although I haven't seen pre-1998 vaccine hesitancy data), in the UK it was covered in extensive detail, and was front page news in the UK for a long time, whereas in other nations the size of his fraud's splash was much larger relative to the debunking of it - leaving a larger proportion of the population in our medium-near neighbours having heard about the MMR-Autism Wakefield study, but not that it was all a pack of lies.
Government moving mountains to get their hands on medical equipment during a global pandemic, really isn't the big story she thinks it is.
Hang on. Getting the ventilators isn't the issue. Paying tax is. Lets assume a made up number for the tax bill - £500k. Dyson could compensate the employees (and "senior individuals") for the tax paid. And add the £500k on to the contract value if he wanted to.
We *have* to have tax transparency where foreign-based companies pay due taxes in the UK. Whether they are Tory donors or not.
That isn't the issue though. Dyson wasn't attempting to profit from it. He just wanted to ensure that the company and staff would not be penalised for overstaying in the UK to achieve a positive aim.
I have no problem with this. Both Boris and Dyson were trying to do the right thing and didn't want to be caught out by rules not intended for these special circumstances.
I have campaigned for a defence against against penalties for breaking laws that have unforeseen consequences. We must of all come across 'jobs worths' who have applied rules correctly no matter how irrational they were in the circumstances.
The only criticism here is it is one rule for Dyson and another for the rest of us because there isn't a defence for the rest of us.
Typical crooked Tory parasites, would not even have cost him a day's interest on his fortune. Their greed is unbounded, never think of doing anything for good , always just greed.
Don't often disagree with you Malcolm but I do here. It is his employees who would have suffered. I guess he could have made it up, but I think it is a reasonable request. The unusual circumstances meant they would be breaking the time limits for staying in the UK potentially and not for their own benefit.
In fact, if Dyson's employees payed more tax as a result of coming back to Britain (oh the humanity), then Dyson was free to top-up their remuneration as a COVID bonus to make up for it.
But of course it's up to the British tax payer to ensure that no loss was suffered whatosever.
What on earth happened to charity? What on earth happened to civic duty?
Shameless.
I think there is an issue with an employer trying to pay an employees personal tax - it becomes a benefit in kind, and itself is taxable? Creates a problematic loop, IIRC?
My office are all laughing their arses off about the Super League plans collapsing.
At a time of such polarisation and division in society, it's great to have everyone agree that these scumbag club chairmen trying to sell out the fans - then failing miserably when they underestimated the reaction - is the most brilliant story of the year so far!
Was just down the supermarket. People were spontaneously celebrating with each other in the queue and with the cashiers about this victory against the global money men. Glorious.
Absolutely damn right, during a pandemic you do whatever it takes to get the medical equipment we need.
You'd rather people die than Boris does his job wouldn't you?
Those deaths would have been on James Dyson.
The absolute gall of you people defending him for putting his own (despicable) tax arrangements above people's lives.
Sums up everything that is wrong with 21st century capitalism.
I think the bigger scandal of this is not todays story but the real story that has never been covered and that was that anyone who knows anything about medical devices knows that you don't ask a vacuum cleaner or digger manufacturer to make medical devices. It is as dumb as suggesting a brewing company should make vaccines. Time was wasted on giving publicity to companies that were run by Brexit supporting cronies of Boris Johnson when proper medical device companies that had capacity and knowhow with respect to Class 2 and Class 3 regulated medical devices were ignored. I was apoplectic about it then and I still am now.
Tories regretting not putting out a halfway capable candidate now. Stewart as the Tory would have won this given the vaccination boost.
Dunno, I read that as meaning that by the final round, any Tory candidate would really struggle unless they are at more or less 50% up front. Presumably Boris used to get LibDem transfers.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
It's not about relegation from the PL, it's about the risk of Liverpool failing to qualify for the Champions League and the significant loss of revenue resulting from that. The greedy owners were trying to make sure that Liverpool could not fail to quality for the CL/ESL.
But again relegation is not a concept they are familiar with. To them that's normal.
The reaction in the UK is one of horror and outrage and I joined in with that. The one in America is "what's the big deal".
Sometimes things are different on different sides of the pond. If you can't see that, frankly you're being rather for want of a better word racist.
Completely missing the point and being offensive at the same time. Nice one.
In fact, if Dyson's employees payed more tax as a result of coming back to Britain (oh the humanity), then Dyson was free to top-up their remuneration as a COVID bonus to make up for it.
But of course it's up to the British tax payer to ensure that no loss was suffered whatosever.
What on earth happened to charity? What on earth happened to civic duty?
Shameless.
I think there is an issue with an employer trying to pay an employees personal tax - it becomes a benefit in kind, and itself is taxable? Creates a problematic loop, IIRC?
Any tax experts?
They wouldn't be paying their personal tax, they would be uplifting their salary to compensate for the extra tax. A "grossing up" as it were.
I'm happy to put this matter behind us now. FSG still have my respect, they made a mistake and they've apologised.
If Donald Trump apologised for leading an attempted coup against the USA, would that be enough for you?
If he apologised I would be taken aback and impressed. He doesn't have that in him.
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
Do me a fucking favour. Cultural differences? No, just no.
If you don't think its a cultural difference you don't understand American sport at all.
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
Don't lecture me on US sports, I know exactly how it works. What was being proposed in the ESL was nothing like US sports. No draft, no preferential fixture list, no nothing. This was all about bailing out Real and Barca, and the Yanks thought they could make a pretty penny.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
Relegation has never been an issue at the forefront of Liverpool's mind. I really don't think they did think about it in the way we would.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
It's not about relegation from the PL, it's about the risk of Liverpool failing to qualify for the Champions League and the significant loss of revenue resulting from that. The greedy owners were trying to make sure that Liverpool could not fail to quality for the CL/ESL.
But again relegation is not a concept they are familiar with. To them that's normal.
The reaction in the UK is one of horror and outrage and I joined in with that. The one in America is "what's the big deal".
Sometimes things are different on different sides of the pond. If you can't see that, frankly you're being rather for want of a better word racist.
When FSG bought Liverpool, you were not in the Champions League. You were promoted to it for the 2014-15 season. And then relegated. And then promoted again in 2016-17. And this season you may go down.
They are very familiar with relegation.
Now you're just being facetious.
Nobody talks about the Champions League as an actual League, or says someone has been relegated from it.
This was a proposed actual League, but without relegation. No different to what is normal where they come from.
Shame you're too closed-minded to put aside mistakes people from other nation's make when they apologise.
Okay, I'm not continuing to talk about this with you.
I think the intelligent people on here will see how fucking dumb you're being.
I think the intelligent people on here will see how fucking dumb and vindictive you're being.
Even UEFA agree with me. Time to put this behind us.
Absolutely damn right, during a pandemic you do whatever it takes to get the medical equipment we need.
You'd rather people die than Boris does his job wouldn't you?
Those deaths would have been on James Dyson.
The absolute gall of you people defending him for putting his own (despicable) tax arrangements above people's lives.
Sums up everything that is wrong with 21st century capitalism.
I think the bigger scandal of this is not todays story but the real story that has never been covered and that was that anyone who knows anything about medical devices knows that you don't ask a vacuum cleaner or digger manufacturer to make medical devices. It is as dumb as suggesting a brewing company should make vaccines. Time was wasted on giving publicity to companies that were run by Brexit supporting cronies of Boris Johnson when proper medical device companies that had capacity and knowhow with respect to Class 2 and Class 3 regulated medical devices were ignored. I was apoplectic about it then and I still am now.
The most effective devices - which ended up invalidating the idea of mass producing traditional ventilators - were produced by an F1 engineering team.
Absolutely damn right, during a pandemic you do whatever it takes to get the medical equipment we need.
You'd rather people die than Boris does his job wouldn't you?
Those deaths would have been on James Dyson.
The absolute gall of you people defending him for putting his own (despicable) tax arrangements above people's lives.
Sums up everything that is wrong with 21st century capitalism.
You what?
If employees working in and based in Singapore had stayed in Singapore, rather than coming to the UK and working not-for-profit to save lives in the UK, then how would that have put deaths on his head?
"I refuse to come to my own country and save lives of my compatriots unless you change the law to protect my tax arrangements, Boris".
Imagine someone actually saying that.
Then imagine defending someone who said that.
Christ on a bike, there's no morals left whatsoever.
I thought these people were supposed to believe in Britain and the British people?
Imagine defending a position where you'd rather watch people die than give a tax break to the person who could save their lives.
Oh, wait. I don't have to imagine.
If Dyson employees were unwilling to come back to the UK to help the nation during a pandemic, I'm sure there were plenty of companies and employees in the UK who would have been wiling to do the work.
Why does the work have to come from Boris's mates?
Weren't we pursuing all avenues as it was? There's not exactly a glut of similar companies with the right sort of expertise, even in this country.
I think a further Sindyref inevitable, it is just a matter of timing. Having an outline agreed between Westminster and Holyrood of what Indy Scotland would be like would be a useful lesson to learn from the post Brexit fiasco.
Which is why it won't happen.
BoZo can't demand a detailed manifesto after all his bullshit for Brexit
It must be ever so painful for you that despite all your comments Boris gets more popular by the day and today many European newspapers are blaming him for the collapse of the ESL
He will wear that badge with pride
Boris 2 - Europe 0
I don't think stopping English teams playing in a Super League wins Boris any votes in Scotland.
Actually the SNP were wholly behind Boris as the ESL would have affected football across the UK
I'm not sure the SNP knows much about Scottish football ... actually the consensus of opinion on the Scottish football forum that I frequent was cheering on the ESL because it was seen as damaging to the EPL. There is no love for the EPL among ordinary Scottish football fans - they hate it because the parachute payments and trickle down solidarity payments inflate the wages of even "bang average" English 3rd and 4th division players making it impossible for the SPL to compete for talent. When your typical wage is £1K or £2K a week, SPL clubs (outside the big 2) are competing with the likes of Shrewsbury Town for players, which Scottish football fans would consider a diddy team. It's no wonder the SPL is considered a pub league ...
Government moving mountains to get their hands on medical equipment during a global pandemic, really isn't the big story she thinks it is.
Hang on. Getting the ventilators isn't the issue. Paying tax is. Lets assume a made up number for the tax bill - £500k. Dyson could compensate the employees (and "senior individuals") for the tax paid. And add the £500k on to the contract value if he wanted to.
We *have* to have tax transparency where foreign-based companies pay due taxes in the UK. Whether they are Tory donors or not.
That isn't the issue though. Dyson wasn't attempting to profit from it. He just wanted to ensure that the company and staff would not be penalised for overstaying in the UK to achieve a positive aim.
I have no problem with this. Both Boris and Dyson were trying to do the right thing and didn't want to be caught out by rules not intended for these special circumstances.
I have campaigned for a defence against against penalties for breaking laws that have unforeseen consequences. We must of all come across 'jobs worths' who have applied rules correctly no matter how irrational they were in the circumstances.
The only criticism here is it is one rule for Dyson and another for the rest of us because there isn't a defence for the rest of us.
Typical crooked Tory parasites, would not even have cost him a day's interest on his fortune. Their greed is unbounded, never think of doing anything for good , always just greed.
Don't often disagree with you Malcolm but I do here. It is his employees who would have suffered. I guess he could have made it up, but I think it is a reasonable request. The unusual circumstances meant they would be breaking the time limits for staying in the UK potentially and not for their own benefit.
"Suffered".
🎻
Probably not the best selected word on my part I grant you. I think you know what I meant though. Love the violin.
The very same people who talk of a love of Britain and a love of our country are all too quick to defend people, British people, who only express such a love of Britain if there's self interest involved.
Comments
But its a completely different matter, a coup is an illegal criminal and deadly act that saw people die.
Setting up a new sporting competition, on the lines of sporting competitions around the world that they're used to that nobody objects to over there . . . it was a cultural difference. I suspect they didn't understand or realise the significance of the footballing pyramid or what it means. Now they do.
It was a mistake, a mistake borne not from malice but from cultural differences. Should we really hold a grudge over that?
2) Impregnate the narrative that we have to live with Covid to some extent (mitigate not eradicate)
3) remove legal restrictions (but some guidance will remain)
3) Cease financial assistance as per Sunak timetable and start to repair nation's finances
4) Covid test for all international arrivals to protect from incoming as best we can that is reasonable.
5) Lay down protocols and funding for if this ever happens again
This seems to be the plan, leading to a kind of normality. You agree?
Good luck finding a serious investor who does.
Boris Johnson personally assured Sir James Dyson that he would “fix” tax issues for Dyson’s employees if they made ventilators in the UK during the pandemic, it has been reported https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/johnson-promised-to-fix-tax-for-dyson-workers-in-pandemic-6r0db8xds?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1618995525
If you can do that with a meat bag and only mildly ding it....
And then you have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvZGaMt7UgQ
A missile that accelerated at 100G - there was a prototype that did about 250G for another system, IIRC
The Russian Gazelle ABM is supposed to do about 200G, again, IIRC.
This has been a consistent feature of the way he takes decisions. He wants to appear up-beat and can do, and is frequently enthusiastic about things that then never transpire, but still cost money and waste other people’s time.
And so, £2.6m was spent on the daily briefing centre. Boris didn’t want to let down Allegra having initially said yes. For months Number 10 denied the daily briefing plan was for the chop; it was merely delayed by the winter wave of Covid. Now the plan has been chopped. Well done everyone.
But it won't be as the Premier League is the premier league around the world for a reason.
Governing bodies are unlikely to forget either, they'll be looking hard at the available sporting sanctions and 'fit and proper' tests on shareholders and chairpersons.
TBH I'm expecting the twelve clubs involved to be banned from UEFA competitions for two or three years.
The problems started when Brexiters changed the goalposts and after having won the referendum decided to push for the hardest version . Leavers polled after the vote had varying views but there was never a majority at that point for a hard Brexit .
As long as freedom of movement was stopped it seemed that was enough . May should have made that the centre point but in her desperation to prove her Brexit credentials went down the harder route .
The rest is history .
But there are risks of a fourth from imported variants.
a) Applying the rules - we seem to be upset that we have to do what we agreed to and the Eu is doing the same. The politicians make out it is those nasty Eurocrats. They are blaming the EU for what they agreed to.
b) The vaccine cockup by the EU - Clearly we have done very well on this front and the EU badly. The EU made it worse week after week by keep digging the hole they created and boy did they keep digging.
Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin has welcomed the news that more clubs have withdrawn from the planned breakaway league and appeared to rule out any sanctions...
“I said yesterday that it is admirable to admit a mistake and these clubs made a big mistake. But they are back in the fold now and I know they have a lot to offer not just to our competitions but to the whole of the European game.
“The important thing now is that we move on, rebuild the unity that the game enjoyed before this and move forward together.”
And...
That doesn’t exactly scream ‘Uefa sanctions’.
I think the leagues will also want to pretend this never happened. A bit like that Red Dwarf episode where they've had their memories wiped:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanks_for_the_Memory_(Red_Dwarf)
The Red Sox finished bottom of their division last year, the Yankees are at the bottom of it right now, tell an American that means that the Red Sox or the Yankees should be relegated from the top of sport and they will look at you like you're having a stroke and speaking gibberish.
A lot of people straight away said this was an American import - and its been rejected swiftly.
Most Americans right now if they've heard about this story will be confused about what the big deal is and why it was a problem.
Sometimes America and England can be alike but on some issues we are very, very different. Yes it is a cultural difference and you're very conceited if you think there's no difference between America and England.
They made a mistake and have learnt their lesson.
The Prem is the prem chiefly because it has a good share of the world's best players.
Watch them take a hike when the money runs out.
And watch the same loudmouths protesting about how its their club wailing about that when the time comes.
They've all been here long enough to understand how our system works. Don't pretend that they don't.
It's not about threatening herd immunity.
What I think will happen, is that the vaccines will protect those who take them. So we have a world where all the adults (and probably all the children) who take the vaccine are protected. Awesome.
However, they may still spread the virus. Which means that it will circulate. And inevitably find the groups that are not vaccinated.
The unvaccinated will then do the dying.
Given that vaccination resistance is correlated with belonging to an ethnic minority - this means that the third wave will hit ethnic minorities especially hard.
What should she have done that stopped freedom of movement if that is your red line (and it was May's) that May didn't do?
Having that as the starting point, May's deal and the backstop left us with an flaccid Brexit.
The only reason why any premiership clubs are in debt is they've either borrowed money to get back into the premiership or the owners are using it as a cash cow.
And in that short sentence you have summed up Boris opponents
Until they do he is going nowhere
I'd have thought they'd want to at least hand out some punishment, if only to stop the same thing happening again in a few years' time.
But I've been wrong on most of this story in the past couple of days, was positive that the rebel clubs did actually intend to follow through on their plans.
To us the concept of a league without relegation is alien, but to them its entirely natural and never in their time with the club have Liverpool had to battle relegation.
On a lot of criteria Leicester is either about to enter it's 4th wave (as India hurries back before 4am Friday) or enter the 14th month of it's 1st wave.
These companies were not doing the government a favour. They weren't acting like a charity or volunteers. They were being paid handsomely for their work. They should price the contract appropriately to take account of their costs, including any tax liabilities, arising from the fact that as a result of their decision, freely taken, they have sought to base themselves and employ people based outside the U.K.
Actions have consequences but all too many rich people like lecturing others about this but do not want to apply this simple principle to themselves. That's what annoys.
Indeed, if anything, it seems to have deteriorated.
But surely the point is that meteorites are not designed for that kind of exposure, and most of the small to medium ones burn up in our atmosphere? in fact, isn't one of the key features of Earth as a life-bearing planet the fact that civilisation does not get killed off every time our orbit intersects with that of an asteroid, and it's only the big ones that get through (albeit much reduced in size)?
So if UEFA ban the clubs from competitions and, as a self righteous club director of a premier league club has demanded, the premier league deduct points I’m assuming these clubs that were not part of the ESL will refuse to take their places in the UEFA competitions if they qualify due to others having points deducted - considering the outcry that you have to “earn it on the pitch” and all that?
Also the innocent suits at UEFA might just for once decide to care about money and their self interest and realise that Champions league without Real, Barca, Manchesters, Liverpool etc etc is not going to be as attractive financially - if it was they wouldn’t have given a monkey’s about those teams leaving their competition right?
I don't think any of the firms working on ventilator systems did.
If however there are sanctions then whether justified or not that will cause resentment. More particularly it means that if the clubs choose to do this again, they're going to ensure that facing the threat of sanctions that second time around they do it right and don't have to end up back sanctioned with UEFA again.
UEFA have won here and won unequivocally. They've no reason to drag this out any further.
Quite right too.
Much though it doesn't particularly suit me to reach this conclusion - as I find the worship of the NHS as an institution* misguided - I think the remarkably high level of trust in the NHS is part of the reason for this.
Even if we don't expect the NHS to provide good customer service, or even particularly competent, we do have faith that it is On Our Side.
Therefore, if the NHS says something is the right thing to do, we trust it - in a way that other countries perhaps don't.
*note 'as an institution' - I was as full of awe as the next man, during the early months of the pandemic, for the bravery and selflessness of individual nurses and doctors and other staff.
Even then the Premier League is the best in the world and other broadcasters would step in, ie Amazon, Disney, etc
The stress of reentry causes most to break up.
But plenty of stuff not designed for re-entry makes it to the surface - spherical tanks from satellites are quite common. Given that they were originally filled with hydrazine (quite often).....
The reaction in the UK is one of horror and outrage and I joined in with that. The one in America is "what's the big deal".
Sometimes things are different on different sides of the pond. If you can't see that, frankly you're being rather for want of a better word racist.
The absolute gall of you people defending him for putting his own (despicable) tax arrangements above people's lives.
Sums up everything that is wrong with 21st century capitalism.
They are very familiar with relegation.
If employees working in and based in Singapore had stayed in Singapore, rather than coming to the UK and working not-for-profit to save lives in the UK, then how would that have put deaths on his head?
Can't be having that...
I do not see either to be honest
Imagine someone actually saying that.
Then imagine defending someone who said that.
Christ on a bike, there's no morals left whatsoever.
I thought these people were supposed to believe in Britain and the British people?
You have got no understanding of football finance.
Nobody talks about the Champions League as an actual League, or says someone has been relegated from it.
This was a proposed actual League, but without relegation. No different to what is normal where they come from.
Shame you're too closed-minded to put aside mistakes people from other nation's make when they apologise.
I thought patriotism was supposed to come before self interest?
The whole thing stinks.
London Mayoral Voting Intention:
Khan (LAB): 41%
Bailey (CON): 28%
Porritt (LDM): 8%
Berry (GRN): 6%
Omilana (IND): 5%
Via
@SavantaComRes
, 13-19 Apr.
Still a firm Khan win on the second round.
How many lives did that reassurance end up saving?
Thankfully there was never a shadow of doubt over Usain Bolt's performances a couple of decades later, he was just a freak of a human being.
So there's no justification for any (domestic) restrictions at that point. We get vaccinated and then the Emergency (at least domestically) is over - though of course the public health professionals will keep working on reducing the risks further with boosters against variants, etc.
I'd keep travel restrictions until other countries are also vaccinated. Apart from anything else it would provide more motivation to us to help that happen as quickly as possible.
Oh, wait. I don't have to imagine.
He may not have refused to come here but some of his employees might if they were going to be onerously taxed as a result. Who knows.
Either way there's no harm no foul here. Had the country not asked them to come here, not for profit, to help out during an emergency there would have never been any tax due in the first place.
You're putting your own hate and rage first here yet again. Try not to be such an angry young man.
But of course it's up to the British tax payer to ensure that no loss was suffered whatosever.
What on earth happened to charity? What on earth happened to civic duty?
Shameless.
I think the intelligent people on here will see how fucking dumb you're being.
If only Bailey could have claimed the credit for killing the ESL......
Why does the work have to come from Boris's mates?
🎻
Any tax experts?
I think an employer looking after his employees while trying to help out a country is just common sense and good management.
An employer who disregards his employees interests is not a good employer.
The same as the number of ventilators Dyson delivered for use.
Even UEFA agree with me. Time to put this behind us.
Would these patriots then have refused to help out of principle?
'Ah well, soz, can't help you, might have to pay some more tax".
This time it was a leisure centre manager and a lifeguard.
Both of whom said it was more interesting than their normal jobs as they get to meet more interesting people.
Centre still running at 1000 people per day.