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Parliament must return in person and permanently – politicalbetting.com

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  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Pure virtue-signalling isn't it? Covid doesn't make you sneeze. The mouth is the worry not the nose.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited April 2021
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Well I don't like the term BAME and this is the first and last time I ever use it. As for "BAME communities" - what are they? You mean figuratively, I guess, but why lump individuals into groups anyway?
    Entirely up to you. I see neither virtue nor vice in that. But on the general point - sometimes grouping people by various id metrics (inc ethnicity) - if you avoid that in all circumstances you are rather hampering your ability to discuss quite a few things, I'd have thought.

    Eg, subject: The educational attainment of black, working class boys.

    How can we frame that without "black" and "working class" and "boys"?

    For me, using these "lumping" terms is not saying that everyone is not an individual. We just need these terms sometimes to talk properly about what we want to talk about.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Is it OK to say "BAME people" or "BAME voters"? Or "a BAME person"?

    Serious questions. You know you are the PB expert on the correct use of "BAME". The go-to guy
    There are no hard and fast "rules". That's the key thing to grasp. It's all about context and tone - having a feel for what sounds ok and what doesn't. We've done an example and this should be enough to get you on the right path. Specially given you're a pro writer and therefore no slouch with 'look and feel' of language.

    So, just a simple "thank you" would be nice, and we can revisit at a later point.

    Unless of course you're trying to make some sort of fatuous point about the "policing of language". If so it's not really working. Not on any level.
    I wasn't making any point. You have set yourself up as PB's Wokemaster General, and you do like to school people on the correct use of terms like BAME, so I was genuinely inquiring how a Very Woke Person like you would advise on the use of this word. Because, honestly, it seems quite vague, and vagueness is no good when people can get into trouble for using the wrong word or the right word the wrong way

    Saying "Coloured people" can get you sacked, saying "people of colour" will not.

    However, it turns out there are no rules, it's just "having a feel for what sounds OK". And I have a vague suspicion that how YOU *feel* about it will turn out to be more important than how someone else *feels*. Which is a rum do, indeed
    "Feeling" shouldn't come into it because when it does its not just about what was said, but who said it.

    Someone "on the left" can say one thing, someone "on the right" the same, and the response would be completely different.

    Its entirely subjective and inappropriate.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    https://twitter.com/Kim_Aldis/status/1380508967365963776

    I had a broken leg at time so I could not go with my dad and brother to get my nan out as she was living in the heart of Brixton at time

    I still laugh at my dad getting caught at traffic lights with the police on one side of road and the local youth congregated on the other side.

    My brother pleading for dad to cut the lights and get out of there and Dad saying, nope - can't do it - look at all the police :smiley:

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Pure virtue-signalling isn't it? Covid doesn't make you sneeze. The mouth is the worry not the nose.
    Surely you exhale through your nose too?

    The nose isn't about sneezing, since we know that breathing alone exhales the virus which is what the mask is meant to block. Blocking the nose reduces the viral load exhaled, hence idiots covering the mouth not the nose are not doing it right in normal circumstances.

    If you're comfortable blocking your nose even when using your mouth for drinking etc, you'll be reducing the risk.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    This is what you've opened the door to mate.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Pure virtue-signalling isn't it? Covid doesn't make you sneeze. The mouth is the worry not the nose.
    I suppose there is some small protection against inhaling aerosols through the nose. But then there is also a risk of aerosols getting into eyes, so they should be wearing visors as well

    They are obviously aiming for a zero risk world so they shouldn't really be drinking anything, in case they choke

    In future and for the rest of time we will all be encased in a a hard see-through "gel", while lying immobile on the floors of our homes. Liquid sustenance will be provided by tubes going directly into the stomach, sexual satisfaction will be ensured by small robots which will stimulate the genitals with sinister acrylic "shandygloves", and any resultant sperm will be taken away for the purposes of future insemination into womenkind, who will be lying immobile in the next room: thus we will ensure the preservation of the species while never moving

    That way we will all be fine, and we will get through this
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Is it OK to say "BAME people" or "BAME voters"? Or "a BAME person"?

    Serious questions. You know you are the PB expert on the correct use of "BAME". The go-to guy
    There are no hard and fast "rules". That's the key thing to grasp. It's all about context and tone - having a feel for what sounds ok and what doesn't. We've done an example and this should be enough to get you on the right path. Specially given you're a pro writer and therefore no slouch with 'look and feel' of language.

    So, just a simple "thank you" would be nice, and we can revisit at a later point.

    Unless of course you're trying to make some sort of fatuous point about the "policing of language". If so it's not really working. Not on any level.
    I wasn't making any point. You have set yourself up as PB's Wokemaster General, and you do like to school people on the correct use of terms like BAME, so I was genuinely inquiring how a Very Woke Person like you would advise on the use of this word. Because, honestly, it seems quite vague, and vagueness is no good when people can get into trouble for using the wrong word or the right word the wrong way

    Saying "Coloured people" can get you sacked, saying "people of colour" will not.

    However, it turns out there are no rules, it's just "having a feel for what sounds OK". And I have a vague suspicion that how YOU *feel* about it will turn out to be more important than how someone else *feels*. Which is a rum do, indeed
    Here's the thing, language is important. You should know that better than most @Leon.

    If you cannot understand that a phrase like "What will the BAMEs make of it?" is likely to cause offence, you need to take a good look at yourself.

    I am a full-time wheelchair user but I have lost count of the number of times I have been referred to as 'a wheelchair', as in 'we've got another wheelchair' or 'where are we putting the wheelchairs'. I still find it offensive though.

    Treating people as people is simply informed politeness, not wokeism or political correctness, and certainly not 'political correctness gone mad'. It's not hard, if you can be bothered.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    This is what you've opened the door to mate.
    What, me personally?

    On PB I sometimes feel like the apocryphal Jew in Berlin, 1939, who reads Der Sturmer

    His Jewish friend sits down and sees the Jew reading the Nazi rag, and says, "My God, why are you reading THAT? They hate us!"

    The Jew turns to him and says, "But I like it, they say we secretly control the world. It cheers me up"
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Well I don't like the term BAME and this is the first and last time I ever use it. As for "BAME communities" - what are they? You mean figuratively, I guess, but why lump individuals into groups anyway?
    Entirely up to you. I see neither virtue nor vice in that. But on the general point - sometimes grouping people by various id metrics (inc ethnicity) - if you avoid that in all circumstances you are rather hampering your ability to discuss quite a few things, I'd have thought.

    Eg, subject: The educational attainment of black, working class boys.

    How can we frame that without "black" and "working class" and "boys"?

    For me, using these "lumping" terms is not saying that everyone is not an individual. We just need these terms sometimes to talk properly about what we want to talk about.
    Firstly I'd say skin-colour is different to the other two examples you give and secondly it doesn't justify the addition of "communities".

    If I was Asian-British, for example, I'd object to being referred to as BAME and I'd be even more annoyed that I was being fingered as being part of an imaginary community.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    I can't imagine one at least of the pubs round here even thinking of enforcing mask-wearing.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147
    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    This has been the law in Spain since last year. You break the law if you have no mask on even when you are socially distanced and alone in rhe campo. They have just relented to allow masks off when on the beach but even then once you go strolling it is mask on. These rules are atm unlikely to change before the autumn
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Pure virtue-signalling isn't it? Covid doesn't make you sneeze. The mouth is the worry not the nose.
    I suppose there is some small protection against inhaling aerosols through the nose. But then there is also a risk of aerosols getting into eyes, so they should be wearing visors as well

    They are obviously aiming for a zero risk world so they shouldn't really be drinking anything, in case they choke

    In future and for the rest of time we will all be encased in a a hard see-through "gel", while lying immobile on the floors of our homes. Liquid sustenance will be provided by tubes going directly into the stomach, sexual satisfaction will be ensured by small robots which will stimulate the genitals with sinister acrylic "shandygloves", and any resultant sperm will be taken away for the purposes of future insemination into womenkind, who will be lying immobile in the next room: thus we will ensure the preservation of the species while never moving

    That way we will all be fine, and we will get through this
    Cracking post.

    As for, "sexual satisfaction will be ensured by small robots which will stimulate the genitals with sinister acrylic "shandygloves"" - well up up for that to be honest.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    This is what you've opened the door to mate.
    What, me personally?

    On PB I sometimes feel like the apocryphal Jew in Berlin, 1939, who reads Der Sturmer

    His Jewish friend sits down and sees the Jew reading the Nazi rag, and says, "My God, why are you reading THAT? They hate us!"

    The Jew turns to him and says, "But I like it, they say we secretly control the world. It cheers me up"
    Not you personally, your ilk that wants vaccine passports and are entertaining these idiot zero COVID types.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Pure virtue-signalling isn't it? Covid doesn't make you sneeze. The mouth is the worry not the nose.
    Surely you exhale through your nose too?

    The nose isn't about sneezing, since we know that breathing alone exhales the virus which is what the mask is meant to block. Blocking the nose reduces the viral load exhaled, hence idiots covering the mouth not the nose are not doing it right in normal circumstances.

    If you're comfortable blocking your nose even when using your mouth for drinking etc, you'll be reducing the risk.
    I'm not certain but I don't think large-droplets or aerosols are displaced via the nose to any meaningful degree, but I stand to be corrected on this. The nose is a dry old fella compared to the mouth.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,982
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    On the assumption the funeral will be next weekend then the media and press will continue for the following following days on reporting the funeral and speculating on royal succession and gossip.

    I do not expect political coverage to start much like it was much until just 2 weeks before the May elections

    I have no idea if this will make any difference but who knows

    Even in Scotland? This is quite an important election in Scotland. Less so, elsewhere

    Alex Salmond must be fumin’ at the late Duke. Alba’s only chance was a high profile, punchy election campaign, where he can take sly but stinging shots at Sturgeon

    This is quite a serious point. Democracy must go on, especially an election for a national parliament
    Well my leafletting is off tomorrow which, given the weather, I am just about coping with the disappointment of.
    8C and rainy here. Hideous. Again.
    Bright and sunny but with a wind that is brassic and the odd flurry of soft hail. I remember last spring in the first lockdown being much, much nicer than this.
    Last Spring's weather was just about the only good thing about 2020, and helped to make the first lockdown more bearable. The fact that the whole of 2021 so far has basically been cold, grey, miserable shit (and that it shows little sign of improvement) makes it feel all the worse in comparison.
    Having those two days of Spanish air just to make us aware of what many Europeans are already enjoying just added to the cruelty.
    Southern Europe is indeed having lovely weather. I have "kind" friends telling me all about it.

    Further north though they are, in some cases, getting the same shit as us

    Record-breaking frosts in French vineyards:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56688031
    Schadenfreude Brigade online in 3...2...1....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales @Mexicanpete Thank You

    This site used to have Mods that wouldnt have allowed Leons rant without sanction

    Not sure whats happened

    Does anybody take the 'rants' seriously though?

    It's a sneaky send-up of a certain type of florid, reactionary middle aged man, isn't it?
    Things can cross the line even if intended as a send-up, which I'd doubt on occasion.
    And of course digital is harder to read than flesh & blood. As a general comment on insults, and this is just my personal take, they sting more if delivered by somebody not in the habit of using them. So, an obvious example, the Leon construct slags me off on here, it's 'water off a ducks', regardless of how lurid the vocab and lucid the grammar. But if, say, 'BigG' takes umbrage with a post of mine and starts throwing the barbs around, calling me a "vile and revolting creature of the hard left with a black heart and no moral compass", then that is going to really grab my attention, and it's likely to make me feel quite upset for a short while.
    I think that's right. I'm a bit more sensitive than you are over this yet I wear an insult from Malcy with pride.
    Yes, a "cretin" from Malcolm is a rite of passage. When I got one, I knew I'd arrived. Forgotten what it was about now - probably something around BLM and statues.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    edited April 2021

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Is it OK to say "BAME people" or "BAME voters"? Or "a BAME person"?

    Serious questions. You know you are the PB expert on the correct use of "BAME". The go-to guy
    There are no hard and fast "rules". That's the key thing to grasp. It's all about context and tone - having a feel for what sounds ok and what doesn't. We've done an example and this should be enough to get you on the right path. Specially given you're a pro writer and therefore no slouch with 'look and feel' of language.

    So, just a simple "thank you" would be nice, and we can revisit at a later point.

    Unless of course you're trying to make some sort of fatuous point about the "policing of language". If so it's not really working. Not on any level.
    I wasn't making any point. You have set yourself up as PB's Wokemaster General, and you do like to school people on the correct use of terms like BAME, so I was genuinely inquiring how a Very Woke Person like you would advise on the use of this word. Because, honestly, it seems quite vague, and vagueness is no good when people can get into trouble for using the wrong word or the right word the wrong way

    Saying "Coloured people" can get you sacked, saying "people of colour" will not.

    However, it turns out there are no rules, it's just "having a feel for what sounds OK". And I have a vague suspicion that how YOU *feel* about it will turn out to be more important than how someone else *feels*. Which is a rum do, indeed
    Here's the thing, language is important. You should know that better than most @Leon.

    If you cannot understand that a phrase like "What will the BAMEs make of it?" is likely to cause offence, you need to take a good look at yourself.

    I am a full-time wheelchair user but I have lost count of the number of times I have been referred to as 'a wheelchair', as in 'we've got another wheelchair' or 'where are we putting the wheelchairs'. I still find it offensive though.

    Treating people as people is simply informed politeness, not wokeism or political correctness, and certainly not 'political correctness gone mad'. It's not hard, if you can be bothered.
    My original post was satire. I deliberately misused BAME because I was alluding to the fact that BAME has, in truth, recently been outlawed. Seriously. You're not meant to use it any more, I was just teasing him as a woke-person

    BAME, outlawed

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/08/bame-britain-ethnic-minorities-acronym

    "So the term BAME has had its day. But what should replace it?"


    And I thought Kinabalu would get the reference, because he is so up-to-speed on the latest PC terms. Usually.

    But not today. So the argument became a more serious one about how he chooses to police language, which turns out to be based on his "feelz", which can't be very good because he still "feels" BAME is OK
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited April 2021
    Liverpool equalise and VAR says no

    So marginal
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2021
    Just read (well, listened to) the New Yorker piece linked to upthread by @Nigelb

    How utterly depressing.

    With technology, repressive states can do whatever they like, basically.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales @Mexicanpete Thank You

    This site used to have Mods that wouldnt have allowed Leons rant without sanction

    Not sure whats happened

    Does anybody take the 'rants' seriously though?

    It's a sneaky send-up of a certain type of florid, reactionary middle aged man, isn't it?
    Things can cross the line even if intended as a send-up, which I'd doubt on occasion.
    And of course digital is harder to read than flesh & blood. As a general comment on insults, and this is just my personal take, they sting more if delivered by somebody not in the habit of using them. So, an obvious example, the Leon construct slags me off on here, it's 'water off a ducks', regardless of how lurid the vocab and lucid the grammar. But if, say, 'BigG' takes umbrage with a post of mine and starts throwing the barbs around, calling me a "vile and revolting creature of the hard left with a black heart and no moral compass", then that is going to really grab my attention, and it's likely to make me feel quite upset for a short while.
    I think that's right. I'm a bit more sensitive than you are over this yet I wear an insult from Malcy with pride.
    Yes, a "cretin" from Malcolm is a rite of passage. When I got one, I knew I'd arrived. Forgotten what it was about now - probably something around BLM and statues.
    That's mild, he called me a whinging pansy yoon tosser I think .
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    I've got it down to 9 horses (probably a 70-75% chance it's one of them that wins) but that's still too many so I need to chop it down a bit further so I back no more than 5 or 6.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    ping said:

    Just read (well, listened to) the New Yorker piece linked to upthread by @Nigelb

    How utterly depressing.

    With technology, repressive states can do whatever they like, basically.

    Ooh. I like being depressed. Link?
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,982

    Lol — Leeds beat Man City.

    For the first time this season, I missed the Fantasy Football deadline and left three Leeds players in, and Watkins in against Liverpool and he’s just scored. The FPL gods are good at teaching humility....😉
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Just read (well, listened to) the New Yorker piece linked to upthread by @Nigelb

    How utterly depressing.

    With technology, repressive states can do whatever they like, basically.

    Ooh. I like being depressed. Link?
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/04/12/surviving-the-crackdown-in-xinjiang
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428
    Urrg, snowing again on Tyneside. What is this nonsense?
  • sarissa said:

    Lol — Leeds beat Man City.

    For the first time this season, I missed the Fantasy Football deadline and left three Leeds players in, and Watkins in against Liverpool and he’s just scored. The FPL gods are good at teaching humility....😉
    And Leeds had 10 men for all the second half
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Urrg, snowing again on Tyneside. What is this nonsense?

    It’s been snowing in Cannock if that makes you feel better.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    edited April 2021
    More on BAME

    As this is a betting site, and we admire astute forecasters, how about a round of applause for THIS PB-er, someone called "LadyG" (no idea where she is now) who expressly predicted the demise of BAME, and was even quite accurate with her estimated timing of its death

    "LadyG Posts: 2,221
    July 2020
    From the BBC Wokesite:

    BAME people are going off the label "BAME". Some find it cold and patronising (and I can see their point)

    In about six months "BAME" will be deemed as racist as "coloured", and it will be a sackable offence to use the term

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53194376"

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/8835/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-in-betting-terms-the-moran-davey-battle-in-the-ld-race-looks-c/p4
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    ping said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Just read (well, listened to) the New Yorker piece linked to upthread by @Nigelb

    How utterly depressing.

    With technology, repressive states can do whatever they like, basically.

    Ooh. I like being depressed. Link?
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/04/12/surviving-the-crackdown-in-xinjiang
    ta
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Well I don't like the term BAME and this is the first and last time I ever use it. As for "BAME communities" - what are they? You mean figuratively, I guess, but why lump individuals into groups anyway?
    Entirely up to you. I see neither virtue nor vice in that. But on the general point - sometimes grouping people by various id metrics (inc ethnicity) - if you avoid that in all circumstances you are rather hampering your ability to discuss quite a few things, I'd have thought.

    Eg, subject: The educational attainment of black, working class boys.

    How can we frame that without "black" and "working class" and "boys"?

    For me, using these "lumping" terms is not saying that everyone is not an individual. We just need these terms sometimes to talk properly about what we want to talk about.
    Firstly I'd say skin-colour is different to the other two examples you give and secondly it doesn't justify the addition of "communities".

    If I was Asian-British, for example, I'd object to being referred to as BAME and I'd be even more annoyed that I was being fingered as being part of an imaginary community.
    Community can be misleading, I agree. Usually "people" works just as well.

    But on the main point, I don't really get you.

    Is skin colour is so sensitive that it cannot be referred to at all iyo?

    If so, different example, how are we to talk about the distrust of the metropolitan police felt in the black comm... by so many black people in London?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Based on a sample size of one (Wor Lass), the BAMEs have been watching the news coverage.

    But I am currently watching 'Say Yes to the Dress'.
    Good data. :smile:

    So, Leon, have you logged this?
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,982
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales @Mexicanpete Thank You

    This site used to have Mods that wouldnt have allowed Leons rant without sanction

    Not sure whats happened

    Does anybody take the 'rants' seriously though?

    It's a sneaky send-up of a certain type of florid, reactionary middle aged man, isn't it?
    Things can cross the line even if intended as a send-up, which I'd doubt on occasion.
    And of course digital is harder to read than flesh & blood. As a general comment on insults, and this is just my personal take, they sting more if delivered by somebody not in the habit of using them. So, an obvious example, the Leon construct slags me off on here, it's 'water off a ducks', regardless of how lurid the vocab and lucid the grammar. But if, say, 'BigG' takes umbrage with a post of mine and starts throwing the barbs around, calling me a "vile and revolting creature of the hard left with a black heart and no moral compass", then that is going to really grab my attention, and it's likely to make me feel quite upset for a short while.
    I think that's right. I'm a bit more sensitive than you are over this yet I wear an insult from Malcy with pride.
    Yes, a "cretin" from Malcolm is a rite of passage. When I got one, I knew I'd arrived. Forgotten what it was about now - probably something around BLM and statues.
    To date, I’ve only had a rebuke for mixing up Perth and North Perthshire with Ochil and South Perthshire constituencies - must try harder!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Well I don't like the term BAME and this is the first and last time I ever use it. As for "BAME communities" - what are they? You mean figuratively, I guess, but why lump individuals into groups anyway?
    Entirely up to you. I see neither virtue nor vice in that. But on the general point - sometimes grouping people by various id metrics (inc ethnicity) - if you avoid that in all circumstances you are rather hampering your ability to discuss quite a few things, I'd have thought.

    Eg, subject: The educational attainment of black, working class boys.

    How can we frame that without "black" and "working class" and "boys"?

    For me, using these "lumping" terms is not saying that everyone is not an individual. We just need these terms sometimes to talk properly about what we want to talk about.
    Firstly I'd say skin-colour is different to the other two examples you give and secondly it doesn't justify the addition of "communities".

    If I was Asian-British, for example, I'd object to being referred to as BAME and I'd be even more annoyed that I was being fingered as being part of an imaginary community.
    Community can be misleading, I agree. Usually "people" works just as well.

    But on the main point, I don't really get you.

    Is skin colour is so sensitive that it cannot be referred to at all iyo?

    If so, different example, how are we to talk about the distrust of the metropolitan police felt in the black comm... by so many black people in London?
    I don't think skin colour is sensitive at all - I think it's irrelevant.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Pure virtue-signalling isn't it? Covid doesn't make you sneeze. The mouth is the worry not the nose.
    Surely you exhale through your nose too?

    The nose isn't about sneezing, since we know that breathing alone exhales the virus which is what the mask is meant to block. Blocking the nose reduces the viral load exhaled, hence idiots covering the mouth not the nose are not doing it right in normal circumstances.

    If you're comfortable blocking your nose even when using your mouth for drinking etc, you'll be reducing the risk.
    I'm not certain but I don't think large-droplets or aerosols are displaced via the nose to any meaningful degree, but I stand to be corrected on this. The nose is a dry old fella compared to the mouth.
    I'd like to see some evidence either way on that, but as it stands we're supposed to cover both so presumably the nose helps. So covering nose but not mouth helps - it looks silly and I wouldn't do it, but I expect it helps.

    People covering mouth but not nose in normal circumstances always makes me think they're rather stupid "mouth breathers".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Based on a sample size of one (Wor Lass), the BAMEs have been watching the news coverage.

    But I am currently watching 'Say Yes to the Dress'.
    Good data. :smile:

    So, Leon, have you logged this?
    Dunno. Do you still "feel" BAME is OK? Or, having read that Guardian piece on the Death of BAME, do you now, suddenly and remarkably, "feel" that it isn't so OK after all, and you might not use it again?

    Important to know where you stand with your "feelings"
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Urrg, snowing again on Tyneside. What is this nonsense?

    Not good. I'm heading for Northumberland later next week for a holiday
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,896
    Is the real story of the Grand National that Smarkets has traded £67 million on the win market compared to £5.8 million for Betfair ?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Well I don't like the term BAME and this is the first and last time I ever use it. As for "BAME communities" - what are they? You mean figuratively, I guess, but why lump individuals into groups anyway?
    Entirely up to you. I see neither virtue nor vice in that. But on the general point - sometimes grouping people by various id metrics (inc ethnicity) - if you avoid that in all circumstances you are rather hampering your ability to discuss quite a few things, I'd have thought.

    Eg, subject: The educational attainment of black, working class boys.

    How can we frame that without "black" and "working class" and "boys"?

    For me, using these "lumping" terms is not saying that everyone is not an individual. We just need these terms sometimes to talk properly about what we want to talk about.
    Firstly I'd say skin-colour is different to the other two examples you give and secondly it doesn't justify the addition of "communities".

    If I was Asian-British, for example, I'd object to being referred to as BAME and I'd be even more annoyed that I was being fingered as being part of an imaginary community.
    Community can be misleading, I agree. Usually "people" works just as well.

    But on the main point, I don't really get you.

    Is skin colour is so sensitive that it cannot be referred to at all iyo?

    If so, different example, how are we to talk about the distrust of the metropolitan police felt in the black comm... by so many black people in London?
    I don't think skin colour is sensitive at all - I think it's irrelevant.
    Absolutely, people are who they are there is no "community" attached to a skin colour.

    I may be white but do not feel part and parcel of a "white community" any more than I'm part of a "brown eye" community or a "brown hair" community. Its irrelevant nonsense.

    Speak about "some black people" if you need to talk about some black people, not a mythical "black community" that segregates people and automatically and fallaciously lumps all black people into that mythical "community".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Leon said:

    More on BAME

    As this is a betting site, and we admire astute forecasters, how about a round of applause for THIS PB-er, someone called "LadyG" (no idea where she is now) who expressly predicted the demise of BAME, and was even quite accurate with her estimated timing of its death

    "LadyG Posts: 2,221
    July 2020
    From the BBC Wokesite:

    BAME people are going off the label "BAME". Some find it cold and patronising (and I can see their point)

    In about six months "BAME" will be deemed as racist as "coloured", and it will be a sackable offence to use the term

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53194376"

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/8835/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-in-betting-terms-the-moran-davey-battle-in-the-ld-race-looks-c/p4

    You must really like @LadyG, because this is at least the second time you have posted comment of hers in the last few weeks. Or are you maybe suffering from early stage dementia?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Wasn't the @williamglenn of 2019 convinced that the Brexit vote was going to lead to us joining the Euro and being a part of the promised land?

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,896
    edited April 2021

    I've got it down to 9 horses (probably a 70-75% chance it's one of them that wins) but that's still too many so I need to chop it down a bit further so I back no more than 5 or 6.

    £10 win Cloth Cap (6-1);
    £5 Talkischeap (60.0) Smarkets, £5 Talkischeap 5 places (10.0) Smarkets for me
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    More on BAME

    As this is a betting site, and we admire astute forecasters, how about a round of applause for THIS PB-er, someone called "LadyG" (no idea where she is now) who expressly predicted the demise of BAME, and was even quite accurate with her estimated timing of its death

    "LadyG Posts: 2,221
    July 2020
    From the BBC Wokesite:

    BAME people are going off the label "BAME". Some find it cold and patronising (and I can see their point)

    In about six months "BAME" will be deemed as racist as "coloured", and it will be a sackable offence to use the term

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53194376"

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/8835/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-in-betting-terms-the-moran-davey-battle-in-the-ld-race-looks-c/p4

    You must really like @LadyG, because this is at least the second time you have posted comment of hers in the last few weeks. Or are you maybe suffering from early stage dementia?
    You must have her details. Perhaps you could put me in touch with her?

    I find deep, incisive intelligence like hers very sexy, TBH.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Pulpstar said:

    Is the real story of the Grand National that Smarkets has traded £67 million on the win market compared to £5.8 million for Betfair ?

    Is this apples and oranges? In the past different exchanges have treated £10 @ 25 as anything from £10 matched through to £500 matched.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Well I don't like the term BAME and this is the first and last time I ever use it. As for "BAME communities" - what are they? You mean figuratively, I guess, but why lump individuals into groups anyway?
    Entirely up to you. I see neither virtue nor vice in that. But on the general point - sometimes grouping people by various id metrics (inc ethnicity) - if you avoid that in all circumstances you are rather hampering your ability to discuss quite a few things, I'd have thought.

    Eg, subject: The educational attainment of black, working class boys.

    How can we frame that without "black" and "working class" and "boys"?

    For me, using these "lumping" terms is not saying that everyone is not an individual. We just need these terms sometimes to talk properly about what we want to talk about.
    Firstly I'd say skin-colour is different to the other two examples you give and secondly it doesn't justify the addition of "communities".

    If I was Asian-British, for example, I'd object to being referred to as BAME and I'd be even more annoyed that I was being fingered as being part of an imaginary community.
    Community can be misleading, I agree. Usually "people" works just as well.

    But on the main point, I don't really get you.

    Is skin colour is so sensitive that it cannot be referred to at all iyo?

    If so, different example, how are we to talk about the distrust of the metropolitan police felt in the black comm... by so many black people in London?
    I don't think skin colour is sensitive at all - I think it's irrelevant.
    Absolutely, people are who they are there is no "community" attached to a skin colour.

    I may be white but do not feel part and parcel of a "white community" any more than I'm part of a "brown eye" community or a "brown hair" community. Its irrelevant nonsense.

    Speak about "some black people" if you need to talk about some black people, not a mythical "black community" that segregates people and automatically and fallaciously lumps all black people into that mythical "community".
    But if we get rid of the notion of communities, what will become of all those self-appointed 'community leaders'?

  • MaffewMaffew Posts: 235
    felix said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    This has been the law in Spain since last year. You break the law if you have no mask on even when you are socially distanced and alone in rhe campo. They have just relented to allow masks off when on the beach but even then once you go strolling it is mask on. These rules are atm unlikely to change before the autumn
    Yes and it's nuts. Makes one of the few sources of relief from the shit that is covid that bit more unpleasant for sod all gain. It certainly ensures that I won't visit Spain until the law changes (not that visiting is exactly on the cards anyway, but you get my point).
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    Pulpstar said:

    Is the real story of the Grand National that Smarkets has traded £67 million on the win market compared to £5.8 million for Betfair ?

    Is this apples and oranges? In the past different exchanges have treated £10 @ 25 as anything from £10 matched through to £500 matched.
    What's the calculation that Smarkets uses?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Omnium said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Is the real story of the Grand National that Smarkets has traded £67 million on the win market compared to £5.8 million for Betfair ?

    Is this apples and oranges? In the past different exchanges have treated £10 @ 25 as anything from £10 matched through to £500 matched.
    What's the calculation that Smarkets uses?
    Not sure, but guessing its not the same as Betfairs from above.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Is it OK to say "BAME people" or "BAME voters"? Or "a BAME person"?

    Serious questions. You know you are the PB expert on the correct use of "BAME". The go-to guy
    There are no hard and fast "rules". That's the key thing to grasp. It's all about context and tone - having a feel for what sounds ok and what doesn't. We've done an example and this should be enough to get you on the right path. Specially given you're a pro writer and therefore no slouch with 'look and feel' of language.

    So, just a simple "thank you" would be nice, and we can revisit at a later point.

    Unless of course you're trying to make some sort of fatuous point about the "policing of language". If so it's not really working. Not on any level.
    I wasn't making any point. You have set yourself up as PB's Wokemaster General, and you do like to school people on the correct use of terms like BAME, so I was genuinely inquiring how a Very Woke Person like you would advise on the use of this word. Because, honestly, it seems quite vague, and vagueness is no good when people can get into trouble for using the wrong word or the right word the wrong way

    Saying "Coloured people" can get you sacked, saying "people of colour" will not.

    However, it turns out there are no rules, it's just "having a feel for what sounds OK". And I have a vague suspicion that how YOU *feel* about it will turn out to be more important than how someone else *feels*. Which is a rum do, indeed
    You're not engaging one iota with what I'm saying, either through lack of capacity or lack of desire. Sense a bit of both. It's like you have the next post written and lined up regardless. Point is, as I say, this stuff is for me about context and tone. If there were a book I could lend you, I would. But there just isn't.

    You clearly wish to feel victimized and hemmed in by all these imaginary hard & fast "rules" that only the "woke" know about and understand. Fine. That's your call. I've tried to help - to free you up a bit - but I can see it's not getting through. You can lead a horse to water ...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Austria has wrapped up negotiations to acquire Russia’s Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine, Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said Saturday.

    In a briefing to local media, Kurz said the talks had “de facto come to an end” making it possible for Austria to buy one million doses and provide an “additional turbo” to the country's vaccination rollout.

    Kurz first revealed that he was in talks with Russia to purchase the vaccine in late March, following a February 26 phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/sebastian-kurz-austria-sputnik-v-coronavirus-vaccine-negotiations/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Is it OK to say "BAME people" or "BAME voters"? Or "a BAME person"?

    Serious questions. You know you are the PB expert on the correct use of "BAME". The go-to guy
    There are no hard and fast "rules". That's the key thing to grasp. It's all about context and tone - having a feel for what sounds ok and what doesn't. We've done an example and this should be enough to get you on the right path. Specially given you're a pro writer and therefore no slouch with 'look and feel' of language.

    So, just a simple "thank you" would be nice, and we can revisit at a later point.

    Unless of course you're trying to make some sort of fatuous point about the "policing of language". If so it's not really working. Not on any level.
    I wasn't making any point. You have set yourself up as PB's Wokemaster General, and you do like to school people on the correct use of terms like BAME, so I was genuinely inquiring how a Very Woke Person like you would advise on the use of this word. Because, honestly, it seems quite vague, and vagueness is no good when people can get into trouble for using the wrong word or the right word the wrong way

    Saying "Coloured people" can get you sacked, saying "people of colour" will not.

    However, it turns out there are no rules, it's just "having a feel for what sounds OK". And I have a vague suspicion that how YOU *feel* about it will turn out to be more important than how someone else *feels*. Which is a rum do, indeed
    You're not engaging one iota with what I'm saying, either through lack of capacity or lack of desire. Sense a bit of both. It's like you have the next post written and lined up regardless. Point is, as I say, this stuff is for me about context and tone. If there were a book I could lend you, I would. But there just isn't.

    But you clearly prefer to feel victimized and hemmed in by all these imaginary hard & fast "rules" that only the "woke" know about and understand. Fine. That's your call. I've tried to help - to free you up a bit - but I can see it's not getting through. You can lead a horse to water ...
    Prediction: you will now quietly stop using BAME

    In about six months you will piously lecture other, less-woke people who are still using it
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Wasn't the @williamglenn of 2019 convinced that the Brexit vote was going to lead to us joining the Euro and being a part of the promised land?
    I hadn't reckoned with Ursula von der Leyen. It was a different age under the competent leadership of Jean-Claude Juncker.
    Tbf, UvdL has put Juncker's competence into context.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    More on BAME

    As this is a betting site, and we admire astute forecasters, how about a round of applause for THIS PB-er, someone called "LadyG" (no idea where she is now) who expressly predicted the demise of BAME, and was even quite accurate with her estimated timing of its death

    "LadyG Posts: 2,221
    July 2020
    From the BBC Wokesite:

    BAME people are going off the label "BAME". Some find it cold and patronising (and I can see their point)

    In about six months "BAME" will be deemed as racist as "coloured", and it will be a sackable offence to use the term

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53194376"

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/8835/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-in-betting-terms-the-moran-davey-battle-in-the-ld-race-looks-c/p4

    You must really like @LadyG, because this is at least the second time you have posted comment of hers in the last few weeks. Or are you maybe suffering from early stage dementia?
    You must have her details. Perhaps you could put me in touch with her?

    I find deep, incisive intelligence like hers very sexy, TBH.
    Really? We’d never have guessed from your posts...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,470

    Austria has wrapped up negotiations to acquire Russia’s Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine, Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said Saturday.

    In a briefing to local media, Kurz said the talks had “de facto come to an end” making it possible for Austria to buy one million doses and provide an “additional turbo” to the country's vaccination rollout.

    Kurz first revealed that he was in talks with Russia to purchase the vaccine in late March, following a February 26 phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/sebastian-kurz-austria-sputnik-v-coronavirus-vaccine-negotiations/

    Because its been so successful in Hungary and Slovakia.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Omnium said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Is the real story of the Grand National that Smarkets has traded £67 million on the win market compared to £5.8 million for Betfair ?

    Is this apples and oranges? In the past different exchanges have treated £10 @ 25 as anything from £10 matched through to £500 matched.
    What's the calculation that Smarkets uses?
    They look at Betfair's site, and multiply by twelve.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stop the clocks, Liverpool have a goal from open play at Anfield.

    Only took about 13 hours after the last one.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Wasn't the @williamglenn of 2019 convinced that the Brexit vote was going to lead to us joining the Euro and being a part of the promised land?
    I hadn't reckoned with Ursula von der Leyen. It was a different age under the competent leadership of Jean-Claude Juncker.
    But it is in the nature of the EU beast that it will get incompetent fools like Ursula as leader, far too often, because the way it is designed - undemocratically - means national leaders send dull mediocrities, or Luxemburgers, to run Brussels, so they aren't threatened

    I believe some people tried to explain this to you, around the time of the referendum

    Ursula's uselessness at the EC is a feature, not a bug
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Incidentally, insulting the memory of the DoE is offending a minority group, for whom he is their literal God.

    Isn't defaming the Gods and Prophets of minority groups racism of the vile, punching-down, kind?
    Are you trying to make one of your (iyo) "clever and subversive" and (imo) "oh dear, how to break it to him?" anti-woke points again?
    I'm just curious how people resolve these contradictions.

    Its theology - what do you do when your belief X collides with belief Y?

    The rules for which religions are insult-able and which aren't seem to be unwritten and yet inflexible. No-one can tell me why Mormonism is in the "ok to insult" column and Baháʼí isn't.....
    You are perfectly free to criticize any religion you want. Just as with comedy, there are 'punching down' vs 'punching up' considerations but this is something you either feel or you don't. It's not gospel. You don't have to take that into account if you think it's bollox. You just seem overly hung-up on this to me. I think the Muslim thing bugs you a lot, doesn't it?
    No, not really.

    It's just that if we are to live life by these rules, which can have such consequences, we should be able to quantify them. Explain them.

    Ah, "feels".... So you want to reserve judgement until afterwards? Interesting

    What was the quote - "This time it was law from the dark side of the gut. Serious stuff."
    There aren't any "rules" in this area that you "have to live your life by".

    You've obviously taken a good look at people wallowing in victimhood and said to yourself, "Nice! I'll have some of that."
    I don't appear to be a victim of anything.

    In any case, following the style of my ancestors, I make it somewhat hard to pin any.... opinions on my actual self. They learnt the hard way about arbitrary law..

    The problem is that the ideas which you espouse are used as rules.

    Saying "I'll make up the answer when I see the question" is evidence of unclear thought and open ended interpretation.
    Like Leon, you seem to be rabbiting on to me about this & that without reference to anything I've said to you. Is this a 'dim reactionary' character trait?

    Eg, how am I saying that I will make up an answer when I see the question?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Did anyone see Musk's (since deleted) tweet re CureVac?

    Does he really have information about its efficacy, or his he just talking shit?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690
    All these people moaning about the tv coverage being dominated by Philip make me chuckle. It’s 2021. Why are you still watching telly where you have to watch what the producer wants you to watch at the time they want you to? I mean really.

    Meanwhile I listened to the radio all day yesterday. It was lush. No adverts. Quite a lot of Radiohead. Every half hour a single line item news briefing with no mention of the C word. A whole afternoon of radio without one fucking advert with Mark Strong telling me to watch my hands or he’ll kill my granny. Or I’ll kill his. Whatever.



  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Wasn't the @williamglenn of 2019 convinced that the Brexit vote was going to lead to us joining the Euro and being a part of the promised land?
    I hadn't reckoned with Ursula von der Leyen. It was a different age under the competent leadership of Jean-Claude Juncker.
    But it is in the nature of the EU beast that it will get incompetent fools like Ursula as leader, far too often, because the way it is designed - undemocratically - means national leaders send dull mediocrities, or Luxemburgers, to run Brussels, so they aren't threatened

    I believe some people tried to explain this to you, around the time of the referendum

    Ursula's uselessness at the EC is a feature, not a bug
    It's possible that I was suffering from Long Strasbourg Syndrome, but the symptoms have cleared up since my vaccination.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    Did anyone see Musk's (since deleted) tweet re CureVac?

    Does he really have information about its efficacy, or his he just talking shit?

    No, didn't see it. But being Musk the answer is possible 'both'.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,456
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    More on BAME

    As this is a betting site, and we admire astute forecasters, how about a round of applause for THIS PB-er, someone called "LadyG" (no idea where she is now) who expressly predicted the demise of BAME, and was even quite accurate with her estimated timing of its death

    "LadyG Posts: 2,221
    July 2020
    From the BBC Wokesite:

    BAME people are going off the label "BAME". Some find it cold and patronising (and I can see their point)

    In about six months "BAME" will be deemed as racist as "coloured", and it will be a sackable offence to use the term

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53194376"

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/8835/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-in-betting-terms-the-moran-davey-battle-in-the-ld-race-looks-c/p4

    You must really like @LadyG, because this is at least the second time you have posted comment of hers in the last few weeks. Or are you maybe suffering from early stage dementia?
    You must have her details. Perhaps you could put me in touch with her?

    I find deep, incisive intelligence like hers very sexy, TBH.
    Really? We’d never have guessed from your posts...
    Does anyone have the full SeanT lineage? Frankly, I'd forgotten about the LadyG iteration.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Is the real story of the Grand National that Smarkets has traded £67 million on the win market compared to £5.8 million for Betfair ?

    Is this apples and oranges? In the past different exchanges have treated £10 @ 25 as anything from £10 matched through to £500 matched.
    What's the calculation that Smarkets uses?
    They look at Betfair's site, and multiply by twelve.
    Yeah but really. I'm a very reluctant adopter of new betting routes.

    Smarkets haven't endeared themselves to me historically, and so far as I can see the liquidity is very poor. However I do like their range of markets.

    I'd be interested as to views on them.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828
    moonshine said:

    All these people moaning about the tv coverage being dominated by Philip make me chuckle. It’s 2021. Why are you still watching telly where you have to watch what the producer wants you to watch at the time they want you to? I mean really.

    Meanwhile I listened to the radio all day yesterday. It was lush. No adverts. Quite a lot of Radiohead. Every half hour a single line item news briefing with no mention of the C word. A whole afternoon of radio without one fucking advert with Mark Strong telling me to watch my hands or he’ll kill my granny. Or I’ll kill his. Whatever.



    Because they want to complain about the coverage one way or another.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,690
    TimT said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    More on BAME

    As this is a betting site, and we admire astute forecasters, how about a round of applause for THIS PB-er, someone called "LadyG" (no idea where she is now) who expressly predicted the demise of BAME, and was even quite accurate with her estimated timing of its death

    "LadyG Posts: 2,221
    July 2020
    From the BBC Wokesite:

    BAME people are going off the label "BAME". Some find it cold and patronising (and I can see their point)

    In about six months "BAME" will be deemed as racist as "coloured", and it will be a sackable offence to use the term

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53194376"

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/8835/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-in-betting-terms-the-moran-davey-battle-in-the-ld-race-looks-c/p4

    You must really like @LadyG, because this is at least the second time you have posted comment of hers in the last few weeks. Or are you maybe suffering from early stage dementia?
    You must have her details. Perhaps you could put me in touch with her?

    I find deep, incisive intelligence like hers very sexy, TBH.
    Really? We’d never have guessed from your posts...
    Does anyone have the full SeanT lineage? Frankly, I'd forgotten about the LadyG iteration.
    Byronic was my favourite. Mainly because I convinced myself one weekend that it wasn’t really SeanT but Killroy Silk.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Incidentally, insulting the memory of the DoE is offending a minority group, for whom he is their literal God.

    Isn't defaming the Gods and Prophets of minority groups racism of the vile, punching-down, kind?
    Are you trying to make one of your (iyo) "clever and subversive" and (imo) "oh dear, how to break it to him?" anti-woke points again?
    I'm just curious how people resolve these contradictions.

    Its theology - what do you do when your belief X collides with belief Y?

    The rules for which religions are insult-able and which aren't seem to be unwritten and yet inflexible. No-one can tell me why Mormonism is in the "ok to insult" column and Baháʼí isn't.....
    You are perfectly free to criticize any religion you want. Just as with comedy, there are 'punching down' vs 'punching up' considerations but this is something you either feel or you don't. It's not gospel. You don't have to take that into account if you think it's bollox. You just seem overly hung-up on this to me. I think the Muslim thing bugs you a lot, doesn't it?
    No, not really.

    It's just that if we are to live life by these rules, which can have such consequences, we should be able to quantify them. Explain them.

    Ah, "feels".... So you want to reserve judgement until afterwards? Interesting

    What was the quote - "This time it was law from the dark side of the gut. Serious stuff."
    And just to clarify - since I sense we might be at cross purposes on my "feels" comment.

    What I mean is it up to each person whether they consider the 'punching down vs punching up' distinction is important. And as to whether something IS punching down or up (or neither), this too is to some extent a matter of subjectivity.

    That's all. So no call, sadly, for the rather darkly portentous "This time it was law from the dark side of the gut."

    Although I know you like to slip stuff like that in to self-present as well read and deep. :smile:
    To try another tack....

    This little tableau -

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/dec/21/religion.arts

    Who was right and wrong, here?
    Right and wrong on both sides maybe?

    What do you think?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    rcs1000 said:

    Did anyone see Musk's (since deleted) tweet re CureVac?

    Does he really have information about its efficacy, or his he just talking shit?

    Expect it's just speculation. Like you I've heard the side effect incidence for CureVac is the worst among the mRNA vaccines, but that's balanced off by ordinary 2-6 degree refrigeration vs -27 for Moderna and Pfizer. I've heard the prices are pretty good too compared to Moderna especially. If it's got high efficacy then it could become a pretty important tool in developing world's at $10-12 per dose vs $25 for Pfizer and $35 for Moderna.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Wasn't the @williamglenn of 2019 convinced that the Brexit vote was going to lead to us joining the Euro and being a part of the promised land?
    I hadn't reckoned with Ursula von der Leyen. It was a different age under the competent leadership of Jean-Claude Juncker.
    But it is in the nature of the EU beast that it will get incompetent fools like Ursula as leader, far too often, because the way it is designed - undemocratically - means national leaders send dull mediocrities, or Luxemburgers, to run Brussels, so they aren't threatened

    I believe some people tried to explain this to you, around the time of the referendum

    Ursula's uselessness at the EC is a feature, not a bug
    Is having Frau Dr von der Leyen as leader better or worse than having Boris Johnson in the job?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Wasn't the @williamglenn of 2019 convinced that the Brexit vote was going to lead to us joining the Euro and being a part of the promised land?
    I hadn't reckoned with Ursula von der Leyen. It was a different age under the competent leadership of Jean-Claude Juncker.
    But it is in the nature of the EU beast that it will get incompetent fools like Ursula as leader, far too often, because the way it is designed - undemocratically - means national leaders send dull mediocrities, or Luxemburgers, to run Brussels, so they aren't threatened

    I believe some people tried to explain this to you, around the time of the referendum

    Ursula's uselessness at the EC is a feature, not a bug
    There was a wonderful Borgen episode which covered exactly this - an incompetent but political threat was shipped off to the EU.

    The title?

    "In Brussels no one can hear you scream"!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    TimT said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    More on BAME

    As this is a betting site, and we admire astute forecasters, how about a round of applause for THIS PB-er, someone called "LadyG" (no idea where she is now) who expressly predicted the demise of BAME, and was even quite accurate with her estimated timing of its death

    "LadyG Posts: 2,221
    July 2020
    From the BBC Wokesite:

    BAME people are going off the label "BAME". Some find it cold and patronising (and I can see their point)

    In about six months "BAME" will be deemed as racist as "coloured", and it will be a sackable offence to use the term

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53194376"

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/8835/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-in-betting-terms-the-moran-davey-battle-in-the-ld-race-looks-c/p4

    You must really like @LadyG, because this is at least the second time you have posted comment of hers in the last few weeks. Or are you maybe suffering from early stage dementia?
    You must have her details. Perhaps you could put me in touch with her?

    I find deep, incisive intelligence like hers very sexy, TBH.
    Really? We’d never have guessed from your posts...
    Does anyone have the full SeanT lineage? Frankly, I'd forgotten about the LadyG iteration.
    We had Byronic. Then the next one was, I think, Moronic.

    Last heard of in a bunker in South Wales.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    I don't suppose anybody noticed, but I did predict on here yesterday that Leeds would beat Man City. It's in black and white somewhere. :)

    You did! To me. Well well well.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Wasn't the @williamglenn of 2019 convinced that the Brexit vote was going to lead to us joining the Euro and being a part of the promised land?
    I hadn't reckoned with Ursula von der Leyen. It was a different age under the competent leadership of Jean-Claude Juncker.
    But it is in the nature of the EU beast that it will get incompetent fools like Ursula as leader, far too often, because the way it is designed - undemocratically - means national leaders send dull mediocrities, or Luxemburgers, to run Brussels, so they aren't threatened

    I believe some people tried to explain this to you, around the time of the referendum

    Ursula's uselessness at the EC is a feature, not a bug
    This got me thinking - albeit tangentially.

    France has exported a number of very capable people to the EU and other international organisations: Delors was (while not my cup of tea) capable; Barnier ditto; and Legarde is doing fine.

    Yet the last French President who was even vaguely competent was Chirac.

    Why?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Wasn't the @williamglenn of 2019 convinced that the Brexit vote was going to lead to us joining the Euro and being a part of the promised land?
    I hadn't reckoned with Ursula von der Leyen. It was a different age under the competent leadership of Jean-Claude Juncker.
    But it is in the nature of the EU beast that it will get incompetent fools like Ursula as leader, far too often, because the way it is designed - undemocratically - means national leaders send dull mediocrities, or Luxemburgers, to run Brussels, so they aren't threatened

    I believe some people tried to explain this to you, around the time of the referendum

    Ursula's uselessness at the EC is a feature, not a bug
    There was a wonderful Borgen episode which covered exactly this - an incompetent but political threat was shipped off to the EU.

    The title?

    "In Brussels no one can hear you scream"!
    Nothing beats Malcolm Bradbury's The Gravy Train.

    (Which starred, as I have mentioned before a young Christop Waltz.)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Wasn't the @williamglenn of 2019 convinced that the Brexit vote was going to lead to us joining the Euro and being a part of the promised land?
    I hadn't reckoned with Ursula von der Leyen. It was a different age under the competent leadership of Jean-Claude Juncker.
    But it is in the nature of the EU beast that it will get incompetent fools like Ursula as leader, far too often, because the way it is designed - undemocratically - means national leaders send dull mediocrities, or Luxemburgers, to run Brussels, so they aren't threatened

    I believe some people tried to explain this to you, around the time of the referendum

    Ursula's uselessness at the EC is a feature, not a bug
    This got me thinking - albeit tangentially.

    France has exported a number of very capable people to the EU and other international organisations: Delors was (while not my cup of tea) capable; Barnier ditto; and Legarde is doing fine.

    Yet the last French President who was even vaguely competent was Chirac.

    Why?
    It's tricky when you're French and you don't live in London. It unbalances you, so I'm told.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,183

    Austria has wrapped up negotiations to acquire Russia’s Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine, Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said Saturday.

    In a briefing to local media, Kurz said the talks had “de facto come to an end” making it possible for Austria to buy one million doses and provide an “additional turbo” to the country's vaccination rollout.

    Kurz first revealed that he was in talks with Russia to purchase the vaccine in late March, following a February 26 phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/sebastian-kurz-austria-sputnik-v-coronavirus-vaccine-negotiations/

    There's something fishy about that 'additional turbo'.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The new mask thing is the most utter wankshittery.

    You have to wear one in a pub garden "except when you are eating or drinking". What else do you do in a pub garden?

    Or do they literally mean you have to put it on and take it off in between mouthfuls of lager?

    Or do you have to put a mask on your face when you pause in your drinking and turn to your friend to smile and chat? Can't have that. PUT OUT THAT LIGHT

    Someone in Mexico tried to solve this problem with nose masks.

    image
    Imagine travelling back in time and showing that photo to the williamglenn of 2019
    Wasn't the @williamglenn of 2019 convinced that the Brexit vote was going to lead to us joining the Euro and being a part of the promised land?
    I hadn't reckoned with Ursula von der Leyen. It was a different age under the competent leadership of Jean-Claude Juncker.
    But it is in the nature of the EU beast that it will get incompetent fools like Ursula as leader, far too often, because the way it is designed - undemocratically - means national leaders send dull mediocrities, or Luxemburgers, to run Brussels, so they aren't threatened

    I believe some people tried to explain this to you, around the time of the referendum

    Ursula's uselessness at the EC is a feature, not a bug
    This got me thinking - albeit tangentially.

    France has exported a number of very capable people to the EU and other international organisations: Delors was (while not my cup of tea) capable; Barnier ditto; and Legarde is doing fine.

    Yet the last French President who was even vaguely competent was Chirac.

    Why?
    Home for potential rivals.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK cases by specimen data and scaled to 100k population

    image
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Is it OK to say "BAME people" or "BAME voters"? Or "a BAME person"?

    Serious questions. You know you are the PB expert on the correct use of "BAME". The go-to guy
    There are no hard and fast "rules". That's the key thing to grasp. It's all about context and tone - having a feel for what sounds ok and what doesn't. We've done an example and this should be enough to get you on the right path. Specially given you're a pro writer and therefore no slouch with 'look and feel' of language.

    So, just a simple "thank you" would be nice, and we can revisit at a later point.

    Unless of course you're trying to make some sort of fatuous point about the "policing of language". If so it's not really working. Not on any level.
    I wasn't making any point. You have set yourself up as PB's Wokemaster General, and you do like to school people on the correct use of terms like BAME, so I was genuinely inquiring how a Very Woke Person like you would advise on the use of this word. Because, honestly, it seems quite vague, and vagueness is no good when people can get into trouble for using the wrong word or the right word the wrong way

    Saying "Coloured people" can get you sacked, saying "people of colour" will not.

    However, it turns out there are no rules, it's just "having a feel for what sounds OK". And I have a vague suspicion that how YOU *feel* about it will turn out to be more important than how someone else *feels*. Which is a rum do, indeed
    Here's the thing, language is important. You should know that better than most @Leon.

    If you cannot understand that a phrase like "What will the BAMEs make of it?" is likely to cause offence, you need to take a good look at yourself.

    I am a full-time wheelchair user but I have lost count of the number of times I have been referred to as 'a wheelchair', as in 'we've got another wheelchair' or 'where are we putting the wheelchairs'. I still find it offensive though.

    Treating people as people is simply informed politeness, not wokeism or political correctness, and certainly not 'political correctness gone mad'. It's not hard, if you can be bothered.
    My original post was satire. I deliberately misused BAME because I was alluding to the fact that BAME has, in truth, recently been outlawed. Seriously. You're not meant to use it any more, I was just teasing him as a woke-person

    BAME, outlawed

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/08/bame-britain-ethnic-minorities-acronym

    "So the term BAME has had its day. But what should replace it?"


    And I thought Kinabalu would get the reference, because he is so up-to-speed on the latest PC terms. Usually.

    But not today. So the argument became a more serious one about how he chooses to police language, which turns out to be based on his "feelz", which can't be very good because he still "feels" BAME is OK
    Satire. lol.

    Is this a new attempted re-badge for fatuous and a bit dim?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Is the real story of the Grand National that Smarkets has traded £67 million on the win market compared to £5.8 million for Betfair ?

    Is this apples and oranges? In the past different exchanges have treated £10 @ 25 as anything from £10 matched through to £500 matched.
    What's the calculation that Smarkets uses?
    They look at Betfair's site, and multiply by twelve.
    Yeah but really. I'm a very reluctant adopter of new betting routes.

    Smarkets haven't endeared themselves to me historically, and so far as I can see the liquidity is very poor. However I do like their range of markets.

    I'd be interested as to views on them.
    It depends very much on your betting style and volume.

    Smarkets trade their own markets and make money from that so winners welcome depends on who you are winning from and how. By contrast Betfair do seed their own markets, but only to get them going and expect to lose money from this, on average. So they wont close or restrict you for winning but premium charge can be an issue.

    A small to average stakes winning punter betting on mainstream markets may be slightly better off on Smarkets but it is much harder to sustain winning big amounts.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK case summary

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK hospitals

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Pulpstar said:

    I've got it down to 9 horses (probably a 70-75% chance it's one of them that wins) but that's still too many so I need to chop it down a bit further so I back no more than 5 or 6.

    £10 win Cloth Cap (6-1);
    £5 Talkischeap (60.0) Smarkets, £5 Talkischeap 5 places (10.0) Smarkets for me
    I haven't bothered with Cloth Cap. Yes, it may well win, but I'm not attracted at such a short price for a race that hinges so much on luck. My six picks:

    Any Second Now
    Burrow's Saint
    Minella Times
    Magic of Light
    Acapella Bourgeois
    Taking Risks

    Longshots - Class Conti

    I've got a 6 place bet on Minella Celebration too.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    Austria has wrapped up negotiations to acquire Russia’s Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine, Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said Saturday.

    In a briefing to local media, Kurz said the talks had “de facto come to an end” making it possible for Austria to buy one million doses and provide an “additional turbo” to the country's vaccination rollout.

    Kurz first revealed that he was in talks with Russia to purchase the vaccine in late March, following a February 26 phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/sebastian-kurz-austria-sputnik-v-coronavirus-vaccine-negotiations/

    There's something fishy about that 'additional turbo'.
    He meant "additional turbot"?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK deaths

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    UK R

    from cases

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    from hospitalisations

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    Age related data

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    Age related data, scaled to 100K per age group

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    edited April 2021
    UK vaccinations

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    England CFR

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  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Is the real story of the Grand National that Smarkets has traded £67 million on the win market compared to £5.8 million for Betfair ?

    Is this apples and oranges? In the past different exchanges have treated £10 @ 25 as anything from £10 matched through to £500 matched.
    What's the calculation that Smarkets uses?
    They look at Betfair's site, and multiply by twelve.
    Yeah but really. I'm a very reluctant adopter of new betting routes.

    Smarkets haven't endeared themselves to me historically, and so far as I can see the liquidity is very poor. However I do like their range of markets.

    I'd be interested as to views on them.
    It depends very much on your betting style and volume.

    Smarkets trade their own markets and make money from that so winners welcome depends on who you are winning from and how. By contrast Betfair do seed their own markets, but only to get them going and expect to lose money from this, on average. So they wont close or restrict you for winning but premium charge can be an issue.

    A small to average stakes winning punter betting on mainstream markets may be slightly better off on Smarkets but it is much harder to sustain winning big amounts.

    Thanks. Trading their own markets worries me a little.

    I guess I just have to risk some cash and live with the idea that I won't get it back. (Much like betting anyway)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    A top Nottingham police officer has warned revellers not to come into the city centre to drink if they haven't booked a pub table on Monday, April 12.

    Area commander Mat Healey, responsible for policing the city, said there will be very limited capacity for those who want to come into the city to celebrate bars and pubs reopening.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147

    Austria has wrapped up negotiations to acquire Russia’s Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine, Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said Saturday.

    In a briefing to local media, Kurz said the talks had “de facto come to an end” making it possible for Austria to buy one million doses and provide an “additional turbo” to the country's vaccination rollout.

    Kurz first revealed that he was in talks with Russia to purchase the vaccine in late March, following a February 26 phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/sebastian-kurz-austria-sputnik-v-coronavirus-vaccine-negotiations/

    There's something fishy about that 'additional turbo'.
    He meant "additional turbot"?
    With the usual caviarts?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good Morning

    The nation in mourning is quite a moment and the generous tributes to Prince Philip and the Queen seem genuine, heartfelt and not only from here in the UK, but worldwide

    I can just recall the Queens wedding in November 1947 but remember the death of her Father and the news that she became Queen, actually in Kenya. Also the coronation itself, as we had most of our neighbours in to watch on our very small black and white tv all day, with our former blackout curtains drawn and my Grandmother standing to attention whenever the national anthem was played, and even when it was not, bless her

    I have largely been a republican for most of my life but of recent times have recognised the Queen, indeed have become very fond of her, and also the role Philip has played alongside her

    I am so sorry for the queen who must be devastated.

    I know my wife and I have been together for near 60 years since we first met and a lifetime of love and companionship lost would devastate the surviving one of us

    I know some are unsympathetic and upset at the interruption to politics and their daily TV schedule, but there are times when events occur that are historic and this is one such event which is quite rare in our daily lives

    I would hope it will bring our Country together and we could see more kindness and less conflict, but no doubt that is a vain hope, not least since Turkey has given Joe permission to send two US warships into the Black Sea following Russia's troop build up in the Crimea

    Blimey! Nicholas Witchell has hacked BigG.'s PB account!
    Has he been married near 60 years

    No - these are my words and expressed as someone who has been in a lifetime marriage and feels for the Queen and her loss
    We can all feel for a 95 year old woman who has lost a life-time companion.

    That does not mean that it is necessary to have the same programme on every BBC channel. One channel would have been quite enough. Marking an important occasion is one thing. But there is a fine line between that and a sort of emotional bullying of everyone into feeling things they do not feel. Diana's death was the worst example of that and, ironically, the Royal Family were at the receiving end.

    I am sorry that Philip has died, not least because of the impact on his family. It would have been nice for him to have reached 100 years. It marks the end of an era. It reminds us that HMQ too may not be long for this world. But he had a long life, well-lived, and a peaceful death. And since he did not want a fuss it is unnecessary for the rest of us to go overboard or berate those who do not want to listen to the reminiscences of every single person who ever met him for 5 minutes.

    Pretending to feelings we don't have is silly and, it seems to me, insensitive to those who genuinely do feel grief and a sense of loss.
    I agree the coverage is OTT but it doesn't really bother me because I just don't watch it. I am, however, hoping that on PB it goes away quickly, since I spend far more time on PB than I do watching telly. This last bit being food for thought and possibly requiring corrective action. :smile:
    I’m wondering how this prolonged Duke of E coverage will go down with different communities

    eg What will the BAMEs make of it? Any thoughts?
    Using "the BAMEs" in this way smacks of casual, dehumanizing racism. I won't answer the question unless reworded. And even then I probably won't.
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by using ‘the’. I will rephrase

    What do you think BAMEs will make of it?
    That is slightly better. But it still sounds "off" the way you're putting it.

    Do you want me to show how it can be rectified? I don't mind. Not everyone has a feel for this sort of thing.
    This is exactly what I want! I know you're very vigilant, informed and hyper-aware of the correct use of these terms, especially BAME. Indeed, you have told us you deem BAME to the "best, most inclusive term of all", so I am eager to be schooled

    How should I use it?
    It's actually quite easy. You should have asked the question something like this -

    "How do you think the wall to wall coverage of 'RIP Philip' would have gone down with our various BAME communities?"

    That's fine. It does not have the "off" feel that your version did. All with an ear for language will see this. Language in general, I mean. This has nothing to do with being PC or any of that.

    So, great, I can answer it now, and I guess I may as well. Get this dealt with and into the out tray. Here goes -

    "What an odd question. I have absolutely no idea."

    (No charge)
    Is it OK to say "BAME people" or "BAME voters"? Or "a BAME person"?

    Serious questions. You know you are the PB expert on the correct use of "BAME". The go-to guy
    There are no hard and fast "rules". That's the key thing to grasp. It's all about context and tone - having a feel for what sounds ok and what doesn't. We've done an example and this should be enough to get you on the right path. Specially given you're a pro writer and therefore no slouch with 'look and feel' of language.

    So, just a simple "thank you" would be nice, and we can revisit at a later point.

    Unless of course you're trying to make some sort of fatuous point about the "policing of language". If so it's not really working. Not on any level.
    I wasn't making any point. You have set yourself up as PB's Wokemaster General, and you do like to school people on the correct use of terms like BAME, so I was genuinely inquiring how a Very Woke Person like you would advise on the use of this word. Because, honestly, it seems quite vague, and vagueness is no good when people can get into trouble for using the wrong word or the right word the wrong way

    Saying "Coloured people" can get you sacked, saying "people of colour" will not.

    However, it turns out there are no rules, it's just "having a feel for what sounds OK". And I have a vague suspicion that how YOU *feel* about it will turn out to be more important than how someone else *feels*. Which is a rum do, indeed
    You're not engaging one iota with what I'm saying, either through lack of capacity or lack of desire. Sense a bit of both. It's like you have the next post written and lined up regardless. Point is, as I say, this stuff is for me about context and tone. If there were a book I could lend you, I would. But there just isn't.

    But you clearly prefer to feel victimized and hemmed in by all these imaginary hard & fast "rules" that only the "woke" know about and understand. Fine. That's your call. I've tried to help - to free you up a bit - but I can see it's not getting through. You can lead a horse to water ...
    Prediction: you will now quietly stop using BAME

    In about six months you will piously lecture other, less-woke people who are still using it
    The umpteenth airing of that piece of projecting nonsense speaks volumes.

    You actually have nothing of any real insight to offer on this, do you? Just chuntering away.

    Suggest a return to topics such as exotic travel.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428

    A top Nottingham police officer has warned revellers not to come into the city centre to drink if they haven't booked a pub table on Monday, April 12.

    Area commander Mat Healey, responsible for policing the city, said there will be very limited capacity for those who want to come into the city to celebrate bars and pubs reopening.

    Constable Killjoy
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    felix said:

    Austria has wrapped up negotiations to acquire Russia’s Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine, Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said Saturday.

    In a briefing to local media, Kurz said the talks had “de facto come to an end” making it possible for Austria to buy one million doses and provide an “additional turbo” to the country's vaccination rollout.

    Kurz first revealed that he was in talks with Russia to purchase the vaccine in late March, following a February 26 phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/sebastian-kurz-austria-sputnik-v-coronavirus-vaccine-negotiations/

    There's something fishy about that 'additional turbo'.
    He meant "additional turbot"?
    With the usual caviarts?
    Cod damn you - it's not you plaice to make all of the fish jokes.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    UK deaths

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    According to the dashboard, the seven day rolling figure for total deaths has quite abruptly levelled off (i.e. until very recently it was dropping consistently by about a third every week, but now suddenly the decline is zero.) And yet the cases and hospitalisations are still dropping markedly.

    I'm sure that there's some perfectly reasonable explanation for this (probably related to the Easter holiday) but I can't think what it is. It's just rather odd.
This discussion has been closed.