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LAB’s betting gap over the Tories in Hartlepool now in double figures – politicalbetting.com

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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,873

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    It's a slightly odd article in that it doesn't mention the UK at all. If there is a real effect, then why aren't we seeing it? I do wonder whether there is something in the theory put forward by a Danish doctor that it is something to do with incorrect vaccination technique (pinching the skin, rather than stretching it out).
    I wouldn't be surprised, given the low absolute number - and, sadly, the NHS - if some such deaths were missed as being that particular condition.
    Possibly, but I doubt it. Our 'yellow card' system is pretty good.
    As deaths seem to be of those under 50 there is a fighting chance that the NHS would investigate further.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392

    Floater said:
    No but you see in 1926, there was a similar observed trend and it led to Labour winning at some point in the future.
    For those complacent Tories here, you may want to recall how popular John Major was at his peak. I'll let you into a secret, it was a lot higher than Bozo is now
    so one shagger is more popular than another shagger

    new balls please Edwina
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Andy_JS said:

    Funny how we haven't had any of these problems in the UK despite tens of millions of people having had the AZ vaccine.
    We have focussed AZN an the older population. This seems to be a side effect concentrated in younger women.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Floater said:
    No but you see in 1926, there was a similar observed trend and it led to Labour winning at some point in the future.
    For those complacent Tories here, you may want to recall how popular John Major was at his peak. I'll let you into a secret, it was a lot higher than Bozo is now
    The last three Leadership Approval Polls gave a gross approval rating for Boris of 45%, 42% and 47% respectively. When was John Major last a lot higher than 47% saying they approve of his leadership?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Funny how we haven't had any of these problems in the UK despite tens of millions of people having had the AZ vaccine.
    We have focussed AZN an the older population. This seems to be a side effect concentrated in younger women.
    Plenty of young NHS workers have had the AZ jab.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,799

    FPT: Reluctant though I am to join in a rubbish debate, the litter one on the previous thread started with CR bemoaning the hypocrisy of the (Nottingham) young leaving their park desecrated while proclaiming love for the environment. Other posters then cited the disgraceful state of country walks, country parks, roadside verges and so on, all of which strike me as venues not particularly frequented by the young.

    So, in fact, it is proven (via my own observations) that the worst litter offenders are males, drivers, aged between around 30 and 50. Yes, the young are guilty too, but they are merely following the examples of their older brethren; in fact most young people try scrupulously not to leave litter. In other words, stop blaming the young for everything.

    I'm now going to visit the heaving beach 200 yards from where I live and may report back later. In advance, I predict the bins will be overflowing because there aren't enough of them.

    On that note, the local Sainsbury's has removed all its recycling bins.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289

    Floater said:
    No but you see in 1926, there was a similar observed trend and it led to Labour winning at some point in the future.
    For those complacent Tories here, you may want to recall how popular John Major was at his peak. I'll let you into a secret, it was a lot higher than Bozo is now
    so one shagger is more popular than another shagger

    new balls please Edwina
    Pass me the mind bleach
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Funny how we haven't had any of these problems in the UK despite tens of millions of people having had the AZ vaccine.
    We have focussed AZN an the older population. This seems to be a side effect concentrated in younger women.
    Nearly a quarter of under 50s have been vaccinated now in the UK. I doubt Germany have vaccinated more younger women with AZN than the UK have.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    dixiedean said:

    eek said:
    It is about NFA taken against Sinn Fein over the Bobby Storey funeral lockdown breaches last June.
    Not sure it's a call to resign matter anywhere outwith NI.

    Edit:
    Not to mention it is the DPP who prosecutes of course.
    No different than Cressida Dick

    Whatever you do as chief constable there's always someone who doesnt agree
  • MaffewMaffew Posts: 235
    algarkirk said:


    Is it still £500 an hour + VAT or am I out of date?

    That'll get you quite a lot of lawyer.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Funny how we haven't had any of these problems in the UK despite tens of millions of people having had the AZ vaccine.
    We have focussed AZN an the older population. This seems to be a side effect concentrated in younger women.
    Plenty of young NHS workers have had the AZ jab.
    It would be really interesting to see some stats on who has been given which vaccine by both age and sex - and to compare the UK vs Germany in this regard.

    I am on a call later today with a very qualified group here in the US, where this will be one of the issues discussed. It is a group of people with no money in the game so no reason why they'd be biased against AZN. But they are concerned and, while the jury is out on whether this is a causative link or not, they do feel the advice not to use AZN on younger populations is valid, given the availability of other options
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280

    FPT: Reluctant though I am to join in a rubbish debate, the litter one on the previous thread started with CR bemoaning the hypocrisy of the (Nottingham) young leaving their park desecrated while proclaiming love for the environment. Other posters then cited the disgraceful state of country walks, country parks, roadside verges and so on, all of which strike me as venues not particularly frequented by the young.

    So, in fact, it is proven (via my own observations) that the worst litter offenders are males, drivers, aged between around 30 and 50. Yes, the young are guilty too, but they are merely following the examples of their older brethren; in fact most young people try scrupulously not to leave litter. In other words, stop blaming the young for everything.

    I'm now going to visit the heaving beach 200 yards from where I live and may report back later. In advance, I predict the bins will be overflowing because there aren't enough of them.

    On that note, the local Sainsbury's has removed all its recycling bins.
    That's a coincidence. My local Sainsbury's is the only place around I can get rid of plastic tubs and bottletops. Walked down there the other weekend as my exercise, builders' portakabins have moved in and all recycling is blocked off.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,873
    edited March 2021

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    I am beginning to become concerned that some of this anti-AZ stuff is sinister. Are lobbyists or maybe even darker forces targeting the gullible and susceptible?
    There are side effects. Vanishingly small chances of one it seems. But side effects which, as the article suggests, can't be ignored.

    I suppose the problem is that regulators don't want to open the Pandora's Box of saying "you think the AZN Covid jab is dangerous, wait til you learn of the possibility and incidence of the side effects of [hugely popular well known drug taken by zillions around the world]."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,517
    Andy_JS said:

    Funny how we haven't had any of these problems in the UK despite tens of millions of people having had the AZ vaccine.
    "No cases of blood clots have been found in more than 440,000 people who have been vaccinated against coronavirus in Wales, a study has shown.

    Research by Swansea University health data experts looked at vaccinations up to January with 180,000 AstraZeneca doses and 260,000 Pfizer-BioNtech."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56574100
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,032
    Thanks Sandpit - time now correct.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Funny how we haven't had any of these problems in the UK despite tens of millions of people having had the AZ vaccine.
    We have focussed AZN an the older population. This seems to be a side effect concentrated in younger women.
    We've jabbed over 5.3 million people under 50, and I'd expect over half of those to be women because of their higher representation in the NHS and amongst care providers. I'm not sure what the split AZ vs Pfizer is for that age group, but there must be a lot of AZs in there.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    Well if you don't like it here you can always contact Mike for your refund.
    I clearly need to come up with a formula to value the time I've spent on here for refund purposes.
    Non-billable hours, counselor!

    UNLESS you can successfully suing OGH for extreme mental anguish and/or cruel & unusual punishment?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    The unusual feature of the Covid vaccination is that it is a drug administered in huge numbers to a population that may, depending on the demographics, be healthy and very unlikely to die of the condition the drug is protecting against. Is it ethical to inject an individual who may have similar (albeit tiny) chances of being personally saved or killed by that injection? Especially if you have an alternative.

    The issue doesn't apply to older and unhealthy people because they are much more likely to die of Covid and the chances of their lives being saved by the vaccine are much higher than the risk of dying from blood clots.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289

    Floater said:
    No but you see in 1926, there was a similar observed trend and it led to Labour winning at some point in the future.
    For those complacent Tories here, you may want to recall how popular John Major was at his peak. I'll let you into a secret, it was a lot higher than Bozo is now
    The last three Leadership Approval Polls gave a gross approval rating for Boris of 45%, 42% and 47% respectively. When was John Major last a lot higher than 47% saying they approve of his leadership?
    Ah, I mentioned the words gullible and susceptible in a previous post and you are certain to appear.

    Unlike you I am not inclined to spend hours pouring through Wikipedia to prove my point on PB, but as I recall the Daily Telegraph once did a headline that was based on their polling that stated "Major Now More Popular Than Churchill", so I confess I do have a certain amount of uncertainty that happens when one relies on experience rather than online information. That time was also in a time of crisis (first Gulf War), and my point is that Bozo is likely to be popular at the moment because we are in a crisis and people associate the vaccine roll out with him. They will have forgotten about it by the next GE. There will still be the odd gullible keyboard warrior that will be saying "the vaccines, the vaccines" as they lament at the ingratitude to their most unlikely fuhrer and messiah
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,745

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    Well if you don't like it here you can always contact Mike for your refund.
    I clearly need to come up with a formula to value the time I've spent on here for refund purposes.
    Non-billable hours, counselor!

    UNLESS you can successfully suing OGH for extreme mental anguish and/or cruel & unusual punishment?
    Mike has broadly kept LD voting to himself, so surely no case!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    All heading in the right direction:


    People will focus on the deaths number (which is surprisingly good – that's the lowest figure on a Tuesday for a very long time).

    Yet the really interesting figure is the positive tests (not cases, etc etc). The short-term rise in this number, leapt on by the Zero Covidians despite it being an obvious consequence of increased testing, has now seemingly been reversed.

    Not expected, and extremely encouraging giving the schoolchildren have been back for almost a month... One to watch...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Andy_JS said:

    Funny how we haven't had any of these problems in the UK despite tens of millions of people having had the AZ vaccine.
    https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1376920934448300039?s=20
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,873
    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    The unusual feature of the Covid vaccination is that it is a drug administered in huge numbers to a population that may, depending on the demographics, be healthy and very unlikely to die of the condition the drug is protecting against. Is it ethical to inject an individual who may have similar (albeit tiny) chances of being personally saved or killed by that injection? Especially if you have an alternative.

    The issue doesn't apply to older and unhealthy people because they are much more likely to die of Covid and the chances of their lives being saved by the vaccine are much higher than the risk of dying from blood clots.
    Absolutely agree good point. People could be asked to take their chances and who could fault such an approach.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    kinabalu said:

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    In case you've not noticed, there's been a massive change in the political landscape in the last 10 years.

    I still expect nothing other than a Labour loss.
    Exactly. This is the post Brexit politics where the Cons have captured the WWC leaver demos. Their landslide was built on this and they would have taken this Brexit stronghold if it were not for the chunky BXP vote. That GE was not so long ago. Brexit has been delivered and looks to the untrained eye - of which there will be many in Hartlepool - to be a roaring success because vaccines. They should win this by-election and my money is where my mouth is. I have big big money (£60) on them at evens.

    Of course I might be wrong. It does happen (albeit not often in recent times) and if so I'll be happy to lose my £60 even though £10 of it will be to Philip Thompson and nobody wants that. But I really do hope Labour can somehow pull this one out. If they do, it will be a sign that "Leave" is in retreat as a solid Tory-voting political identity in erstwhile traditional Labour areas in the North. That in turn puts Labour right in play for the next election.
    I still believe that WWC voters may have said Brexit was important to them, but the real deciding factor at the last GE was not wanting to endorse Corbyn.
    Labour are absolutely in play for the next election but not really for an overall majority. The intricacies of that are interesting, and no less so because of Alba.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    The unusual feature of the Covid vaccination is that it is a drug administered in huge numbers to a population that may, depending on the demographics, be healthy and very unlikely to die of the condition the drug is protecting against. Is it ethical to inject an individual who may have similar (albeit tiny) chances of being personally saved or killed by that injection? Especially if you have an alternative.

    The issue doesn't apply to older and unhealthy people because they are much more likely to die of Covid and the chances of their lives being saved by the vaccine are much higher than the risk of dying from blood clots.
    Absolutely agree good point. People could be asked to take their chances and who could fault such an approach.
    Agreed, and perhaps you are deliberately hinting at exactly this, but wasn't that exact same philosophy behind risk segmentation – which was trashed as an idea on here by FF43 and several others like him who now seem to be arguing for vaccine segmentation?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,090
    edited March 2021

    kinabalu said:

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    In case you've not noticed, there's been a massive change in the political landscape in the last 10 years.

    I still expect nothing other than a Labour loss.
    Exactly. This is the post Brexit politics where the Cons have captured the WWC leaver demos. Their landslide was built on this and they would have taken this Brexit stronghold if it were not for the chunky BXP vote. That GE was not so long ago. Brexit has been delivered and looks to the untrained eye - of which there will be many in Hartlepool - to be a roaring success because vaccines. They should win this by-election and my money is where my mouth is. I have big big money (£60) on them at evens.

    Of course I might be wrong. It does happen (albeit not often in recent times) and if so I'll be happy to lose my £60 even though £10 of it will be to Philip Thompson and nobody wants that. But I really do hope Labour can somehow pull this one out. If they do, it will be a sign that "Leave" is in retreat as a solid Tory-voting political identity in erstwhile traditional Labour areas in the North. That in turn puts Labour right in play for the next election.
    Except if Hartlepudlians (is that the term?) were willing to vote Tory to Get Brexit Done then this wouldn't have been a Lab hold in 2019.

    BXP votes are not interchangeable with Tory votes. These are voters, probably lifelong Lab, who were so unwilling to vote Tory they wouldn't even do so to Get Brexit Done.
    Some of that, yes. But outweighed by a lot of something else. The BXP vote were Hard Leavers. Just really hard hard leavers. They voted BXP because even Boris Johnson was not a proven Proper Bloke to them. Nigel Farage all day long. The real Mr Brexit. We're talking a very Ukippy nationalistic bunch here. That's why they voted BXP.

    And now? Think about it. A proper hard Brexit has been delivered. Johnson has proven himself to them. Crucially, franked by their man. Farage has seen the Brexit and said that it is good. On top of this you have vaccines and over a year of "Boris being Boris" and Patel delivering what they want on immigration and Dishi Rishi's largesse and the Cons generally being 'national populist' and making all the requisite noises to push all the requisite buttons.

    You really think these Hard Nationalistic Leavers of Hartlepool are now going to break for Sir Keir Starmer and Labour? Not in a million years. The Cons should be clear favourites here and I'm delighted with my evens on betfair and with you. You could almost pay up now.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,289
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    I am beginning to become concerned that some of this anti-AZ stuff is sinister. Are lobbyists or maybe even darker forces targeting the gullible and susceptible?
    There are side effects. Vanishingly small chances of one it seems. But side effects which, as the article suggests, can't be ignored.

    I suppose the problem is that regulators don't want to open the Pandora's Box of saying "you think the AZN Covid jab is dangerous, wait til you learn of the possibility and incidence of the side effects of [hugely popular well known drug taken by zillions around the world]."
    Indeed, though it is obvious to say it (and I have worked in healthcare most of my career), I am not aware of any drug or device that does not have side effects or occasional adverse events. I think the public should be reminded of this. Any individual who is scared of a 1 in 100000 event should refuse all medication, particularly and including OTC drugs such as asparin and the contraceptive pill. If they do so they may discover alternative risks.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    I am beginning to become concerned that some of this anti-AZ stuff is sinister. Are lobbyists or maybe even darker forces targeting the gullible and susceptible?
    There are side effects. Vanishingly small chances of one it seems. But side effects which, as the article suggests, can't be ignored.

    I suppose the problem is that regulators don't want to open the Pandora's Box of saying "you think the AZN Covid jab is dangerous, wait til you learn of the possibility and incidence of the side effects of [hugely popular well known drug taken by zillions around the world]."
    Indeed, though it is obvious to say it (and I have worked in healthcare most of my career), I am not aware of any drug or device that does not have side effects or occasional adverse events. I think the public should be reminded of this. Any individual who is scared of a 1 in 100000 event should refuse all medication, particularly and including OTC drugs such as asparin and the contraceptive pill. If they do so they may discover alternative risks.
    If aspirin were developed today, it would not be permitted onto the market. The side effects of the smallpox vaccine are quite horrific by today's standards. But it rid the world of a terrible scourge.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    The unusual feature of the Covid vaccination is that it is a drug administered in huge numbers to a population that may, depending on the demographics, be healthy and very unlikely to die of the condition the drug is protecting against. Is it ethical to inject an individual who may have similar (albeit tiny) chances of being personally saved or killed by that injection? Especially if you have an alternative.

    The issue doesn't apply to older and unhealthy people because they are much more likely to die of Covid and the chances of their lives being saved by the vaccine are much higher than the risk of dying from blood clots.
    Absolutely agree good point. People could be asked to take their chances and who could fault such an approach.
    No problem as long as the vaccine is voluntary, which it is. In cases where you may have to have it for work reasons then the safety of others reasonably and properly comes into play. And if you can't get in the pub you will just have to go and drink with Tim Martin.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    felix said:

    Sandpit said:

    slade said:

    Is there any way I can change the time on posts from GMT to BST?

    Check the time on your computer, including the time zone. Vanilla defaults to local computer time if you’re logged in.
    It certainly does for me here in Spain.
    Ditto Seattle.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,517
    edited March 2021
    UK doses = 50.26 per 100 people.

    https://www.politico.eu/coronavirus-in-europe/
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,587

    All heading in the right direction:


    People will focus on the deaths number (which is surprisingly good – that's the lowest figure on a Tuesday for a very long time).

    Yet the really interesting figure is the positive tests (not cases, etc etc). The short-term rise in this number, leapt on by the Zero Covidians despite it being an obvious consequence of increased testing, has now seemingly been reversed.

    Not expected, and extremely encouraging giving the schoolchildren have been back for almost a month... One to watch...
    Israel had a small lull in case fall before it finally collapsed to near nil.

    Given ONS data based on samples that average 19 days ago said 54.5% immunity we're safely over 60% of the population with anti-bodies right now, and we'll be at 70% in 2 weeks time even if we did no more first jabs from today, so frankly it would be pretty dubious if cases weren't about to fall through the floor.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Canada now needs a similar electronic visa even for transit. I have not used Air Canada since its introduction.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,090
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    In case you've not noticed, there's been a massive change in the political landscape in the last 10 years.

    I still expect nothing other than a Labour loss.
    Of course I might be wrong.
    Great post.
    :smile: - We'll see on May 6th how great it was.
  • We need an eTA to visit our son in Vancouver and it is a simple electronic process
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,936
    Fuxake SCons, how did you end up with Doogie Ross?

    Welsh Cons: hold my beer.

    https://twitter.com/willpenrievans/status/1376930382306811904?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,090

    kinabalu said:

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    In case you've not noticed, there's been a massive change in the political landscape in the last 10 years.

    I still expect nothing other than a Labour loss.
    Exactly. This is the post Brexit politics where the Cons have captured the WWC leaver demos. Their landslide was built on this and they would have taken this Brexit stronghold if it were not for the chunky BXP vote. That GE was not so long ago. Brexit has been delivered and looks to the untrained eye - of which there will be many in Hartlepool - to be a roaring success because vaccines. They should win this by-election and my money is where my mouth is. I have big big money (£60) on them at evens.

    Of course I might be wrong. It does happen (albeit not often in recent times) and if so I'll be happy to lose my £60 even though £10 of it will be to Philip Thompson and nobody wants that. But I really do hope Labour can somehow pull this one out. If they do, it will be a sign that "Leave" is in retreat as a solid Tory-voting political identity in erstwhile traditional Labour areas in the North. That in turn puts Labour right in play for the next election.
    I still believe that WWC voters may have said Brexit was important to them, but the real deciding factor at the last GE was not wanting to endorse Corbyn.
    Yes, I know you think that. Let's see what happens. If Labour pull off the upset it will lend credence to your view.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,745
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    In case you've not noticed, there's been a massive change in the political landscape in the last 10 years.

    I still expect nothing other than a Labour loss.
    Of course I might be wrong.
    Great post.
    :smile: - We'll see on May 6th how great it was.
    Don't do that 'May 6th' lark Mr K - It's '6th May'. I'll be keeping an eye on my overseas properties with you around.
  • Fuxake SCons, how did you end up with Doogie Ross?

    Welsh Cons: hold my beer.

    https://twitter.com/willpenrievans/status/1376930382306811904?s=20

    RT is hopeless but in Wales Boris success with vaccines is likely to have an effect on the Senedd election
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    AlistairM said:

    All heading in the right direction:


    Hopeful early signs of cases declining again after flatlining for a month. School holidays will also I'm sure help.

    Deaths are half what they were a week ago. Hopefully never see another day of triple-digit deaths again.
    Compared to the first wave:

    - Total patients in hospital are now at late June levels
    - Ventilator cases are now at early June levels
    - The rolling average daily death total is also now where it was in late June

    And if the latter metric keeps coming down at about a third a week, as it has been doing for some considerable time now, then we should be down from a mean of about 55 per day now to around 10 per day by the end of April, which might result in a single figure reporting day happening as soon as the weekend after Easter. At the tail end of the first wave, the first such date was Sunday 12 July.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    In case you've not noticed, there's been a massive change in the political landscape in the last 10 years.

    I still expect nothing other than a Labour loss.
    Exactly. This is the post Brexit politics where the Cons have captured the WWC leaver demos. Their landslide was built on this and they would have taken this Brexit stronghold if it were not for the chunky BXP vote. That GE was not so long ago. Brexit has been delivered and looks to the untrained eye - of which there will be many in Hartlepool - to be a roaring success because vaccines. They should win this by-election and my money is where my mouth is. I have big big money (£60) on them at evens.

    Of course I might be wrong. It does happen (albeit not often in recent times) and if so I'll be happy to lose my £60 even though £10 of it will be to Philip Thompson and nobody wants that. But I really do hope Labour can somehow pull this one out. If they do, it will be a sign that "Leave" is in retreat as a solid Tory-voting political identity in erstwhile traditional Labour areas in the North. That in turn puts Labour right in play for the next election.
    Except if Hartlepudlians (is that the term?) were willing to vote Tory to Get Brexit Done then this wouldn't have been a Lab hold in 2019.

    BXP votes are not interchangeable with Tory votes. These are voters, probably lifelong Lab, who were so unwilling to vote Tory they wouldn't even do so to Get Brexit Done.
    Some of that, yes. But outweighed by a lot of something else. The BXP vote were Hard Leavers. Just really hard hard leavers. They voted BXP because even Boris Johnson was not a proven Proper Bloke to them. Nigel Farage all day long. The real Mr Brexit. We're talking a very Ukippy nationalistic bunch here. That's why they voted BXP.

    And now? Think about it. A proper hard Brexit has been delivered. Johnson has proven himself to them. Crucially, franked by their man. Farage has seen the Brexit and said that it is good. On top of this you have vaccines and over a year of "Boris being Boris" and Patel delivering what they want on immigration and Dishi Rishi's largesse and the Cons generally being 'national populist' and making all the requisite noises to push all the requisite buttons.

    You really think these Hard Nationalistic Leavers of Hartlepool are now going to break for Sir Keir Starmer and Labour? Not in a million years. The Cons should be clear favourites here and I'm delighted with my evens on betfair and with you. You could almost pay up now.
    It seems to me that lots won't vote; that hard Brexiteers of a non political tradition have nothing much to turn out for; that the Brexit party vote that turns out will divide Lab/Tory and cancel out; that nationally Labour is a few points ahead of the game compared with 2019 and that therefore Labour should scrape home. If they don't there will be a lot an analysing to do of a group of people, monkey hangers and friends, who, like Amazonian tribesmen, don't easily open up to analysis. Which is why they are among the world's finest.

    (BTW what does Boycott think of Yorkshire's outfit? To say nothing of the spirit if Fred Trueman)

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,517

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    I am beginning to become concerned that some of this anti-AZ stuff is sinister. Are lobbyists or maybe even darker forces targeting the gullible and susceptible?
    The AZ vaccine is apparently unpopular with both Europeans and Americans for different reasons. Europeans think it might be a risk to take, and American companies don't like the fact it's being offered at cost price.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    Given that the eu has a rapidly developing history of passing laws that makes it unlikely for digital companies to spring up in the eu I am not sure that we should be that worried, similarly I cant see most space programs holding out for long against spaceX
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,090
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    In case you've not noticed, there's been a massive change in the political landscape in the last 10 years.

    I still expect nothing other than a Labour loss.
    Of course I might be wrong.
    Great post.
    :smile: - We'll see on May 6th how great it was.
    Don't do that 'May 6th' lark Mr K - It's '6th May'. I'll be keeping an eye on my overseas properties with you around.
    Interesting one. I just type it as I say it. And I say it that way - month first. Not sure why. I just do. Bit like I always put my left sock on first.
  • Fuxake SCons, how did you end up with Doogie Ross?

    Welsh Cons: hold my beer.

    https://twitter.com/willpenrievans/status/1376930382306811904?s=20

    Looks like something from Pathe News back in the day.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,517
    What's to stop the other political parties doing the same thing? Setting up second parties in order to win list seats.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Floater said:
    No but you see in 1926, there was a similar observed trend and it led to Labour winning at some point in the future.
    For those complacent Tories here, you may want to recall how popular John Major was at his peak. I'll let you into a secret, it was a lot higher than Bozo is now
    The last three Leadership Approval Polls gave a gross approval rating for Boris of 45%, 42% and 47% respectively. When was John Major last a lot higher than 47% saying they approve of his leadership?
    Ah, I mentioned the words gullible and susceptible in a previous post and you are certain to appear.

    Unlike you I am not inclined to spend hours pouring through Wikipedia to prove my point on PB, but as I recall the Daily Telegraph once did a headline that was based on their polling that stated "Major Now More Popular Than Churchill", so I confess I do have a certain amount of uncertainty that happens when one relies on experience rather than online information. That time was also in a time of crisis (first Gulf War), and my point is that Bozo is likely to be popular at the moment because we are in a crisis and people associate the vaccine roll out with him. They will have forgotten about it by the next GE. There will still be the odd gullible keyboard warrior that will be saying "the vaccines, the vaccines" as they lament at the ingratitude to their most unlikely fuhrer and messiah
    So you were lying and making up claims. Gotcha.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,069
    edited March 2021
    Sandpit said:

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    Well if you don't like it here you can always contact Mike for your refund.
    I clearly need to come up with a formula to value the time I've spent on here for refund purposes.
    Spot the trainee lawyer! ;)

    Remember to count in six-minute intervals, with every post more than six minutes apart counting individually, and aggregating.
    As ever the blog calculation - you get a refund of what you spent on it.

    Your current bullshit-generation skills will not make you are lawyer.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    The unusual feature of the Covid vaccination is that it is a drug administered in huge numbers to a population that may, depending on the demographics, be healthy and very unlikely to die of the condition the drug is protecting against. Is it ethical to inject an individual who may have similar (albeit tiny) chances of being personally saved or killed by that injection? Especially if you have an alternative.

    The issue doesn't apply to older and unhealthy people because they are much more likely to die of Covid and the chances of their lives being saved by the vaccine are much higher than the risk of dying from blood clots.
    Absolutely agree good point. People could be asked to take their chances and who could fault such an approach.
    Agreed, and perhaps you are deliberately hinting at exactly this, but wasn't that exact same philosophy behind risk segmentation – which was trashed as an idea on here by FF43 and several others like him who now seem to be arguing for vaccine segmentation?
    Not sure what I am supposed to have trashed, but let me set out my stall. You can't segment virus transmission. Healthy young people who are unlikely to die from the disease (although they can be made horribly ill by it) will and do transmit it to those that are much more likely to die. Which is why we want the whole population vaccinated and why the whole population has been required to maintain non-medical interventions to date. For this purpose the AstraZeneca vaccine is just as good as any other. The ethical question is a narrow one of personal risk that can be solved easily by applying a different vaccine.

    You could make an argument, that the burden of the non-medical interventions on young and healthy individuals is so egregious compared with the risk to them of dying from the disease that we should have let the epidemic rip to all age groups (given that no age group can wholly self-isolate). I don't agree with it, but that is the trade-off as I understand it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,090
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    In case you've not noticed, there's been a massive change in the political landscape in the last 10 years.

    I still expect nothing other than a Labour loss.
    Exactly. This is the post Brexit politics where the Cons have captured the WWC leaver demos. Their landslide was built on this and they would have taken this Brexit stronghold if it were not for the chunky BXP vote. That GE was not so long ago. Brexit has been delivered and looks to the untrained eye - of which there will be many in Hartlepool - to be a roaring success because vaccines. They should win this by-election and my money is where my mouth is. I have big big money (£60) on them at evens.

    Of course I might be wrong. It does happen (albeit not often in recent times) and if so I'll be happy to lose my £60 even though £10 of it will be to Philip Thompson and nobody wants that. But I really do hope Labour can somehow pull this one out. If they do, it will be a sign that "Leave" is in retreat as a solid Tory-voting political identity in erstwhile traditional Labour areas in the North. That in turn puts Labour right in play for the next election.
    Except if Hartlepudlians (is that the term?) were willing to vote Tory to Get Brexit Done then this wouldn't have been a Lab hold in 2019.

    BXP votes are not interchangeable with Tory votes. These are voters, probably lifelong Lab, who were so unwilling to vote Tory they wouldn't even do so to Get Brexit Done.
    Some of that, yes. But outweighed by a lot of something else. The BXP vote were Hard Leavers. Just really hard hard leavers. They voted BXP because even Boris Johnson was not a proven Proper Bloke to them. Nigel Farage all day long. The real Mr Brexit. We're talking a very Ukippy nationalistic bunch here. That's why they voted BXP.

    And now? Think about it. A proper hard Brexit has been delivered. Johnson has proven himself to them. Crucially, franked by their man. Farage has seen the Brexit and said that it is good. On top of this you have vaccines and over a year of "Boris being Boris" and Patel delivering what they want on immigration and Dishi Rishi's largesse and the Cons generally being 'national populist' and making all the requisite noises to push all the requisite buttons.

    You really think these Hard Nationalistic Leavers of Hartlepool are now going to break for Sir Keir Starmer and Labour? Not in a million years. The Cons should be clear favourites here and I'm delighted with my evens on betfair and with you. You could almost pay up now.
    It seems to me that lots won't vote; that hard Brexiteers of a non political tradition have nothing much to turn out for; that the Brexit party vote that turns out will divide Lab/Tory and cancel out; that nationally Labour is a few points ahead of the game compared with 2019 and that therefore Labour should scrape home. If they don't there will be a lot an analysing to do of a group of people, monkey hangers and friends, who, like Amazonian tribesmen, don't easily open up to analysis. Which is why they are among the world's finest.

    (BTW what does Boycott think of Yorkshire's outfit? To say nothing of the spirit if Fred Trueman)
    Speaking of Boycott, where will the NIP vote come from and how big will it be? They are standing an ex Lab person, I think.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,703
    Andy_JS said:

    What's to stop the other political parties doing the same thing? Setting up second parties in order to win list seats.
    Doesn't help them - in fact quite the reverse.
    It's a ploy for a party that can win big on the constituency vote which would otherwise be offset by the proportionality requirement taking the contituency + list together. Alba neutralises this offset.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Andy_JS said:


    What's to stop the other political parties doing the same thing? Setting up second parties in order to win list seats.

    Maths. It doesn't help unless you win a load of the constituencies (more than your proportion of the total vote).
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,745
    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    In case you've not noticed, there's been a massive change in the political landscape in the last 10 years.

    I still expect nothing other than a Labour loss.
    Of course I might be wrong.
    Great post.
    :smile: - We'll see on May 6th how great it was.
    Don't do that 'May 6th' lark Mr K - It's '6th May'. I'll be keeping an eye on my overseas properties with you around.
    Interesting one. I just type it as I say it. And I say it that way - month first. Not sure why. I just do. Bit like I always put my left sock on first.
    I won't pry into your sock choices. I'd go for the same on both feet, but not that worried.

    How would you describe the dates of Xmas or April Fools'?

    "December the 25th" seems very American to me.

    'Remember, remember the 5th of November' - obviously works better in the rhyme, but just seems better.

  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    But if she can rally that supermajority in the Scottish Parliament to vote for another referendum then she is bound to claim a cast iron mandate. It is foolish to imagine otherwise. If the SNP itself can't win outright then Sturgeon would doubtless much rather work with the sock puppets again, but ultimately a vote is a vote and one majority will do as well as another.
  • FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    The unusual feature of the Covid vaccination is that it is a drug administered in huge numbers to a population that may, depending on the demographics, be healthy and very unlikely to die of the condition the drug is protecting against. Is it ethical to inject an individual who may have similar (albeit tiny) chances of being personally saved or killed by that injection? Especially if you have an alternative.

    The issue doesn't apply to older and unhealthy people because they are much more likely to die of Covid and the chances of their lives being saved by the vaccine are much higher than the risk of dying from blood clots.
    But vaccines slow the spread, as well as protect, so unless you are proposing to permanently separate the older population from the young...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,745

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    The unusual feature of the Covid vaccination is that it is a drug administered in huge numbers to a population that may, depending on the demographics, be healthy and very unlikely to die of the condition the drug is protecting against. Is it ethical to inject an individual who may have similar (albeit tiny) chances of being personally saved or killed by that injection? Especially if you have an alternative.

    The issue doesn't apply to older and unhealthy people because they are much more likely to die of Covid and the chances of their lives being saved by the vaccine are much higher than the risk of dying from blood clots.
    But vaccines slow the spread, as well as protect, so unless you are proposing to permanently separate the older population from the young...
    Yes - they in fact do three things - slow the spread, protect, and reduce the severity of any illness.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,069
    Isn't that Germany basically following France?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Using ordinal indicators in dates is archaic, full stop. No newspapers do it and haven't for years.

    So 2 April or April 2 – not 2nd April, April the 2nd, the 2nd of April, or April 2nd. How you say it is personal choice, but kill the clutter in text please.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,508
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    In case you've not noticed, there's been a massive change in the political landscape in the last 10 years.

    I still expect nothing other than a Labour loss.
    Exactly. This is the post Brexit politics where the Cons have captured the WWC leaver demos. Their landslide was built on this and they would have taken this Brexit stronghold if it were not for the chunky BXP vote. That GE was not so long ago. Brexit has been delivered and looks to the untrained eye - of which there will be many in Hartlepool - to be a roaring success because vaccines. They should win this by-election and my money is where my mouth is. I have big big money (£60) on them at evens.

    Of course I might be wrong. It does happen (albeit not often in recent times) and if so I'll be happy to lose my £60 even though £10 of it will be to Philip Thompson and nobody wants that. But I really do hope Labour can somehow pull this one out. If they do, it will be a sign that "Leave" is in retreat as a solid Tory-voting political identity in erstwhile traditional Labour areas in the North. That in turn puts Labour right in play for the next election.
    Except if Hartlepudlians (is that the term?) were willing to vote Tory to Get Brexit Done then this wouldn't have been a Lab hold in 2019.

    BXP votes are not interchangeable with Tory votes. These are voters, probably lifelong Lab, who were so unwilling to vote Tory they wouldn't even do so to Get Brexit Done.
    Some of that, yes. But outweighed by a lot of something else. The BXP vote were Hard Leavers. Just really hard hard leavers. They voted BXP because even Boris Johnson was not a proven Proper Bloke to them. Nigel Farage all day long. The real Mr Brexit. We're talking a very Ukippy nationalistic bunch here. That's why they voted BXP.

    And now? Think about it. A proper hard Brexit has been delivered. Johnson has proven himself to them. Crucially, franked by their man. Farage has seen the Brexit and said that it is good. On top of this you have vaccines and over a year of "Boris being Boris" and Patel delivering what they want on immigration and Dishi Rishi's largesse and the Cons generally being 'national populist' and making all the requisite noises to push all the requisite buttons.

    You really think these Hard Nationalistic Leavers of Hartlepool are now going to break for Sir Keir Starmer and Labour? Not in a million years. The Cons should be clear favourites here and I'm delighted with my evens on betfair and with you. You could almost pay up now.
    It seems to me that lots won't vote; that hard Brexiteers of a non political tradition have nothing much to turn out for; that the Brexit party vote that turns out will divide Lab/Tory and cancel out; that nationally Labour is a few points ahead of the game compared with 2019 and that therefore Labour should scrape home. If they don't there will be a lot an analysing to do of a group of people, monkey hangers and friends, who, like Amazonian tribesmen, don't easily open up to analysis. Which is why they are among the world's finest.

    (BTW what does Boycott think of Yorkshire's outfit? To say nothing of the spirit if Fred Trueman)
    Speaking of Boycott, where will the NIP vote come from and how big will it be? They are standing an ex Lab person, I think.
    I can see them getting more votes than the Tory majority.....
  • lloydylloydy Posts: 36
    TimT said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    I am beginning to become concerned that some of this anti-AZ stuff is sinister. Are lobbyists or maybe even darker forces targeting the gullible and susceptible?
    There are side effects. Vanishingly small chances of one it seems. But side effects which, as the article suggests, can't be ignored.

    I suppose the problem is that regulators don't want to open the Pandora's Box of saying "you think the AZN Covid jab is dangerous, wait til you learn of the possibility and incidence of the side effects of [hugely popular well known drug taken by zillions around the world]."
    Indeed, though it is obvious to say it (and I have worked in healthcare most of my career), I am not aware of any drug or device that does not have side effects or occasional adverse events. I think the public should be reminded of this. Any individual who is scared of a 1 in 100000 event should refuse all medication, particularly and including OTC drugs such as asparin and the contraceptive pill. If they do so they may discover alternative risks.
    If aspirin were developed today, it would not be permitted onto the market. The side effects of the smallpox vaccine are quite horrific by today's standards. But it rid the world of a terrible scourge.
    Apparently the U.S. has stockpiled enough Smallpox vaccine to vaccinate the entire country.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/Smallpox-Vaccine.html
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    geoffw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's to stop the other political parties doing the same thing? Setting up second parties in order to win list seats.
    Doesn't help them - in fact quite the reverse.
    It's a ploy for a party that can win big on the constituency vote which would otherwise be offset by the proportionality requirement taking the contituency + list together. Alba neutralises this offset.

    Personally I have no issue with Salmond's strategy. No system is perfect – and you can only play the game that is in front of you. FPP is an 'unfair' system that massively favours the Tories and Labour, hence why we hear very little in public discourse about it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,517
    After all this flip-flopping I'd be surprised if ordinary Europeans have any confidence in the AZ vaccine from now on.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,357

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    You mean there's a fair chance that, over a decade into opposition, Labour might hang on to a seat they've held since it was created in 1974?

    Gripping stuff :smile:

    Oh God, you're not one of those idiots that objects to political betting being discussed on a website called politicalbetting.com?
    Just wryly observing the breathless rush to highlight a small improvement in Labour's odds of retaining a heartland seat that they should never be in a position to lose, whereas three new polls showing an increasing national Tory lead are dismissed out of hand as no evidence of any continuing vaccine bounce at all...
    In case you've not noticed, there's been a massive change in the political landscape in the last 10 years.

    I still expect nothing other than a Labour loss.
    Exactly. This is the post Brexit politics where the Cons have captured the WWC leaver demos. Their landslide was built on this and they would have taken this Brexit stronghold if it were not for the chunky BXP vote. That GE was not so long ago. Brexit has been delivered and looks to the untrained eye - of which there will be many in Hartlepool - to be a roaring success because vaccines. They should win this by-election and my money is where my mouth is. I have big big money (£60) on them at evens.

    Of course I might be wrong. It does happen (albeit not often in recent times) and if so I'll be happy to lose my £60 even though £10 of it will be to Philip Thompson and nobody wants that. But I really do hope Labour can somehow pull this one out. If they do, it will be a sign that "Leave" is in retreat as a solid Tory-voting political identity in erstwhile traditional Labour areas in the North. That in turn puts Labour right in play for the next election.
    Except if Hartlepudlians (is that the term?) were willing to vote Tory to Get Brexit Done then this wouldn't have been a Lab hold in 2019.

    BXP votes are not interchangeable with Tory votes. These are voters, probably lifelong Lab, who were so unwilling to vote Tory they wouldn't even do so to Get Brexit Done.
    Some of that, yes. But outweighed by a lot of something else. The BXP vote were Hard Leavers. Just really hard hard leavers. They voted BXP because even Boris Johnson was not a proven Proper Bloke to them. Nigel Farage all day long. The real Mr Brexit. We're talking a very Ukippy nationalistic bunch here. That's why they voted BXP.

    And now? Think about it. A proper hard Brexit has been delivered. Johnson has proven himself to them. Crucially, franked by their man. Farage has seen the Brexit and said that it is good. On top of this you have vaccines and over a year of "Boris being Boris" and Patel delivering what they want on immigration and Dishi Rishi's largesse and the Cons generally being 'national populist' and making all the requisite noises to push all the requisite buttons.

    You really think these Hard Nationalistic Leavers of Hartlepool are now going to break for Sir Keir Starmer and Labour? Not in a million years. The Cons should be clear favourites here and I'm delighted with my evens on betfair and with you. You could almost pay up now.
    It seems to me that lots won't vote; that hard Brexiteers of a non political tradition have nothing much to turn out for; that the Brexit party vote that turns out will divide Lab/Tory and cancel out; that nationally Labour is a few points ahead of the game compared with 2019 and that therefore Labour should scrape home. If they don't there will be a lot an analysing to do of a group of people, monkey hangers and friends, who, like Amazonian tribesmen, don't easily open up to analysis. Which is why they are among the world's finest.

    (BTW what does Boycott think of Yorkshire's outfit? To say nothing of the spirit if Fred Trueman)
    Speaking of Boycott, where will the NIP vote come from and how big will it be? They are standing an ex Lab person, I think.
    I can see them getting more votes than the Tory majority.....
    A 900 vote Tory majority then.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    The unusual feature of the Covid vaccination is that it is a drug administered in huge numbers to a population that may, depending on the demographics, be healthy and very unlikely to die of the condition the drug is protecting against. Is it ethical to inject an individual who may have similar (albeit tiny) chances of being personally saved or killed by that injection? Especially if you have an alternative.

    The issue doesn't apply to older and unhealthy people because they are much more likely to die of Covid and the chances of their lives being saved by the vaccine are much higher than the risk of dying from blood clots.
    But vaccines slow the spread, as well as protect, so unless you are proposing to permanently separate the older population from the young...
    Exactly. You can't (and IMO shouldn't want to) separate the age groups effectively. Which is why we need the whole population vaccinated. The issue here is an unusual one of personal risk because we can identify populations that are very unlikely to die of Covid. We can make the ethical issue go away by using a different vaccine for those demographics. It may be possible that the blood clots may be worked around or become an non-issue, as we understand more. Which would be even better.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,517
    "Risk of bleeds and death with daily aspirin use higher than thought

    Research suggests 3,000 people die a year in UK from long-term use of aspirin or similar drugs, but also taking heartburn medication could help reduce risk"

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jun/14/risk-of-bleeds-and-death-with-daily-aspirin-use-higher-than-thought
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,745

    Using ordinal indicators in dates is archaic, full stop. No newspapers do it and haven't for years.

    So 2 April or April 2 – not 2nd April, April the 2nd, the 2nd of April, or April 2nd. How you say it is personal choice, but kill the clutter in text please.

    I'd say I've agreed with pretty much everything you've posted this year - but I can't agree with that. 2nd April aids readability. Your brain reads it as 'second of April'. Whereas your brain reads '2 April' as 'two April', and needs a fraction of a second to translate to what the writer meant. Only a fraction of a second, mind - it's not a major inconvenience. But still. Written ordinals are a courtesy to the reader.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Cookie said:

    Using ordinal indicators in dates is archaic, full stop. No newspapers do it and haven't for years.

    So 2 April or April 2 – not 2nd April, April the 2nd, the 2nd of April, or April 2nd. How you say it is personal choice, but kill the clutter in text please.

    I'd say I've agreed with pretty much everything you've posted this year - but I can't agree with that. 2nd April aids readability. Your brain reads it as 'second of April'. Whereas your brain reads '2 April' as 'two April', and needs a fraction of a second to translate to what the writer meant. Only a fraction of a second, mind - it's not a major inconvenience. But still. Written ordinals are a courtesy to the reader.
    Yep. Especially if the 'nd' is in superscript, as any fule no it should be.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,357

    Fuxake SCons, how did you end up with Doogie Ross?

    Welsh Cons: hold my beer.

    https://twitter.com/willpenrievans/status/1376930382306811904?s=20

    For anyone doubting Drakeford's competence, along comes RT to confirm that even the dire status quo is better than the alternative.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cookie said:

    Using ordinal indicators in dates is archaic, full stop. No newspapers do it and haven't for years.

    So 2 April or April 2 – not 2nd April, April the 2nd, the 2nd of April, or April 2nd. How you say it is personal choice, but kill the clutter in text please.

    I'd say I've agreed with pretty much everything you've posted this year - but I can't agree with that. 2nd April aids readability. Your brain reads it as 'second of April'. Whereas your brain reads '2 April' as 'two April', and needs a fraction of a second to translate to what the writer meant. Only a fraction of a second, mind - it's not a major inconvenience. But still. Written ordinals are a courtesy to the reader.
    Plus if you're saying April 2 then when is April 21?

    Is that the 21st day of April or the month of April this year?

    If you insist upon using American style dates then April 21st is the the 21st day of April, not the whole month for this year.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,586
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a good and evenhanded article on the AZN vaccine worries.

    https://twitter.com/hildabast/status/1376859648075079682

    Very good article. A bit damned if they do damned if they don't.

    I wonder if studies have been done on the myriad possible and recorded side effects of more commonplace drugs.
    It's a slightly odd article in that it doesn't mention the UK at all. If there is a real effect, then why aren't we seeing it? I do wonder whether there is something in the theory put forward by a Danish doctor that it is something to do with incorrect vaccination technique (pinching the skin, rather than stretching it out).
    I wouldn't be surprised, given the low absolute number - and, sadly, the NHS - if some such deaths were missed as being that particular condition.
    Possibly, but I doubt it. Our 'yellow card' system is pretty good.
    As deaths seem to be of those under 50 there is a fighting chance that the NHS would investigate further.
    I saw a patient earlier this week with spontaneous bruising since the AZN 4 weeks ago. Nothing dangerous so far, haematology investigations underway.

    Interestingly she had mild covid in the first wave.
  • Read it earlier a mixture of Covid-19 and a broken criminal justice system have caused this and many more moments like this.

    We're still dealing with Chris Grayling's toxic legacy.

    We have far too many idiots acting like they are experts when it comes to the criminal justice system.

    I mean on the previous thread we had people creating straw people arguments about why getting criminals to pick up litter wasn't happening, I pointed out the reality, and nothing but silence from those people.
  • I went through Rhos on Sea along the promenade this afternoon and everywhere including the beaches were full of people, with families, children, dogs, cyclists , and full car parks, so much so I diverted away to join the A55 to go to Abergele

    It is perfectly obvious few if any are listening to the politicians and have decided to claim freedom

    Indeed B & Q was packed with customers, especially the garden centre

    The genie is out of the bottle and we have to hope the vaccine success prevents any adverse effects
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,923

    Using ordinal indicators in dates is archaic, full stop. No newspapers do it and haven't for years.

    So 2 April or April 2 – not 2nd April, April the 2nd, the 2nd of April, or April 2nd. How you say it is personal choice, but kill the clutter in text please.

    And if we don't? ;)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,069
    Pagan2 said:

    Given that the eu has a rapidly developing history of passing laws that makes it unlikely for digital companies to spring up in the eu I am not sure that we should be that worried, similarly I cant see most space programs holding out for long against spaceX
    Time for a deeper connection with Switzerland?

    Of the top 25 research Universities in Europe, 11 are in the UK or Switzerland, according to THE.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,299
    geoffw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's to stop the other political parties doing the same thing? Setting up second parties in order to win list seats.
    Doesn't help them - in fact quite the reverse.
    It's a ploy for a party that can win big on the constituency vote which would otherwise be offset by the proportionality requirement taking the contituency + list together. Alba neutralises this offset.

    There's a risk though. If the SNP unexpectedly lose a bunch of constituency seats then in normal circumstances they would start to pick up compensating list seats, and the severity of a FPTP swing against them would be ameliorated. If they don't have that many list votes that doesn't happen.

    The SNP are some distance from losing constituency seats at the moment though.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297

    I went through Rhos on Sea along the promenade this afternoon and everywhere including the beaches were full of people, with families, children, dogs, cyclists , and full car parks, so much so I diverted away to join the A55 to go to Abergele

    It is perfectly obvious few if any are listening to the politicians and have decided to claim freedom

    Indeed B & Q was packed with customers, especially the garden centre

    The genie is out of the bottle and we have to hope the vaccine success prevents any adverse effects

    I read all the way to the bottom in full expectation of some Big G pearl-clutching.

    I think it’s great that people are breaking out.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Almost exactly the same thing happened to me a decade ago. It did reach court and the guy was convicted and given a suspended sentence. 🤦🏻‍♂️
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,357

    I went through Rhos on Sea along the promenade this afternoon and everywhere including the beaches were full of people, with families, children, dogs, cyclists , and full car parks, so much so I diverted away to join the A55 to go to Abergele

    It is perfectly obvious few if any are listening to the politicians and have decided to claim freedom

    Indeed B & Q was packed with customers, especially the garden centre

    The genie is out of the bottle and we have to hope the vaccine success prevents any adverse effects

    I read all the way to the bottom in full expectation of some Big G pearl-clutching.

    I think it’s great that people are breaking out.
    Not when one is trying to get home after a day of socially distanced work it isn't, and the queues to and from the beach are five miles long. Big G is right!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,781

    Fuxake SCons, how did you end up with Doogie Ross?

    Welsh Cons: hold my beer.

    https://twitter.com/willpenrievans/status/1376930382306811904?s=20

    Andrew RT Davies actually leading the Welsh Conservatives towards their best result in May since the Senedd was founded in 1999 on the latest poll

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
  • Racist cops in Northern Ireland?

    I AM SHOCKED.

    Police in Northern Ireland are stopping and detaining a disproportionate number of black, Asian and mixed race travellers under anti-terrorism laws, according to newly disclosed data.

    More than a third of those stopped and three-quarters of those detained in 2019 were not white, said a report by Jonathan Hall QC, who conducted an independent review of the UK’s terrorism legislation.

    Of 559 stops of travellers in 2019, 55% were white, almost a quarter were categorised as Asian or Chinese and 14% were black or of mixed race.

    More than 98% of Northern Ireland’s population is white, according to the 2011 census.

    Of the 31 travellers detained under terrorism legislation, just 13% were white while a quarter were black or of mixed race and just over half were categorised as Asian, Chinese or other.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/30/northern-ireland-psni-stopping-and-detaining-non-white-travellers-disproportionately-data-finds
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,978
    edited March 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Fuxake SCons, how did you end up with Doogie Ross?

    Welsh Cons: hold my beer.

    https://twitter.com/willpenrievans/status/1376930382306811904?s=20

    Andrew RT Davies actually leading the Welsh Conservatives towards their best result in May since the Senedd was founded in 1999 on the latest poll

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Maybe just hold your fire and let's see

    And RT is hopeless

    He even makes me cringe
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Racist cops in Northern Ireland?

    I AM SHOCKED.

    Police in Northern Ireland are stopping and detaining a disproportionate number of black, Asian and mixed race travellers under anti-terrorism laws, according to newly disclosed data.

    More than a third of those stopped and three-quarters of those detained in 2019 were not white, said a report by Jonathan Hall QC, who conducted an independent review of the UK’s terrorism legislation.

    Of 559 stops of travellers in 2019, 55% were white, almost a quarter were categorised as Asian or Chinese and 14% were black or of mixed race.

    More than 98% of Northern Ireland’s population is white, according to the 2011 census.

    Of the 31 travellers detained under terrorism legislation, just 13% were white while a quarter were black or of mixed race and just over half were categorised as Asian, Chinese or other.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/30/northern-ireland-psni-stopping-and-detaining-non-white-travellers-disproportionately-data-finds

    How disproportionate is that?

    What proportion of travelling terrorists are white, black or Asian and other nowadays?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,357
    HYUFD said:

    Fuxake SCons, how did you end up with Doogie Ross?

    Welsh Cons: hold my beer.

    https://twitter.com/willpenrievans/status/1376930382306811904?s=20

    Andrew RT Davies actually leading the Welsh Conservatives towards their best result in May since the Senedd was founded in 1999 on the latest poll

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    If the fear of PM Corbyn presented Johnson with an 80 seat majority, all Llafur have to do is replay RT's speeches instead of investing in PPBs. A guaranteed 31 Labour seats. I fear they won't though.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437

    Racist cops in Northern Ireland?

    I AM SHOCKED.

    Police in Northern Ireland are stopping and detaining a disproportionate number of black, Asian and mixed race travellers under anti-terrorism laws, according to newly disclosed data.

    More than a third of those stopped and three-quarters of those detained in 2019 were not white, said a report by Jonathan Hall QC, who conducted an independent review of the UK’s terrorism legislation.

    Of 559 stops of travellers in 2019, 55% were white, almost a quarter were categorised as Asian or Chinese and 14% were black or of mixed race.

    More than 98% of Northern Ireland’s population is white, according to the 2011 census.

    Of the 31 travellers detained under terrorism legislation, just 13% were white while a quarter were black or of mixed race and just over half were categorised as Asian, Chinese or other.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/30/northern-ireland-psni-stopping-and-detaining-non-white-travellers-disproportionately-data-finds

    How disproportionate is that?

    What proportion of travelling terrorists are white, black or Asian and other nowadays?
    In Northern Ireland?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Racist cops in Northern Ireland?

    I AM SHOCKED.

    Police in Northern Ireland are stopping and detaining a disproportionate number of black, Asian and mixed race travellers under anti-terrorism laws, according to newly disclosed data.

    More than a third of those stopped and three-quarters of those detained in 2019 were not white, said a report by Jonathan Hall QC, who conducted an independent review of the UK’s terrorism legislation.

    Of 559 stops of travellers in 2019, 55% were white, almost a quarter were categorised as Asian or Chinese and 14% were black or of mixed race.

    More than 98% of Northern Ireland’s population is white, according to the 2011 census.

    Of the 31 travellers detained under terrorism legislation, just 13% were white while a quarter were black or of mixed race and just over half were categorised as Asian, Chinese or other.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/30/northern-ireland-psni-stopping-and-detaining-non-white-travellers-disproportionately-data-finds

    How disproportionate is that?

    What proportion of travelling terrorists are white, black or Asian and other nowadays?
    In Northern Ireland?
    Yes. What are the terrorism conviction figures in Northern Ireland like nowadays?

    I don't know. I would expect it to be different to what it was like when the IRA detonated bombs in Bridge Street killing two children, and all the other atrocities. But I don't know how different.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,781
    edited March 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Fuxake SCons, how did you end up with Doogie Ross?

    Welsh Cons: hold my beer.

    https://twitter.com/willpenrievans/status/1376930382306811904?s=20

    Andrew RT Davies actually leading the Welsh Conservatives towards their best result in May since the Senedd was founded in 1999 on the latest poll

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Maybe just hold your fire and let's see

    And RT is hopeless

    He even makes me cringe
    On that poll he is just 2% away from being the first Tory leader to lead the Tories to be the largest party in Wales, at least on votes, at either Senedd or Westminster level since universal suffrage in 1918
This discussion has been closed.