For fuck's sake. If I have to wear a face mask for a leusure activity, I'm not going to do it. I'll wear one to go to a shop - because I need stuff - but anything I can get away without purchasing, I will.
Don't worry you won't need a mask if the ECB have access to a database showing that you're full vaccinated.
I don’t want the imbeciles who thought the Hundred a good idea to have access to anything, thanks.
They’re almost as useless as the DfE.
I'm somebody who is a member of two counties I'm so opposed to franchise cricket but I am coming round to the idea that is a necessary evil, to combat the power of India.
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
ECB ponders Covid passports to get fans back into grounds for championship
ECB exploring all possibilities for spectators to return
New season will begin without fans on 8 April
As the county season prepares to burst into life on 8 April with the first round of Championship matches, the ECB revealed that it is pondering the use of Covid passports once crowds are again allowed into grounds.
Games will be played in front of empty stands until at least 17 May, when venues will be allowed to fill up to 25% capacity. The ECB is then exploring all possibilities to allow as many people through the turnstiles as possible once most restrictions are lifted, in theory, on 21 June – though much will depend on government guidance and the needs of different local authorities.
“There has been a lot of talk,” said Neil Snowball, the ECB’s managing director of county cricket. “We have gone from no passports to suddenly now looking at a Covid certification. We will explore anything that enables us to get our members back and our spectators back. At the moment it looks like that might happen.
“If you look at 21 June, it is going to be a question of balancing three things. One, if there is going to be some sort of passport or Covid certification, second is testing, third is some sort of social distancing – and we have said we will do whatever we are asked to do to make sure we can get the maximum number of people back.
“The ideal would be some sort of certification with an element of social distancing and probably wearing masks.”
The idea that vaccine passports have any role to play in allowing spectators into County cricket matches just shows to some extent how there is a danger that "passport" serving wider Government purposes become a solution to a non-existent problem. If the Government decrees that spectators at county cricket matches represents a "covid problem" then frankly they shouldn't be opening anything up. I spent all afternoon, at a time when we've barely opened up at all, outside in an environment that was far more "relatively" dangerous than anything you would encounter at a County cricket match.
The issue is that the Government gets to decide what is a Covid problem, so gets to "encourage" passports as a solution.
If a stadium feels confident letting 20,000 spectators in with a passport scheme, but doesn't without, then why shouldn't they have the choice?
A few thoughts on polls - CON+LAB 74% on YouGov but 80% on Redfield & Wilton.
Elsewhere, more awful polling for the Union in Germany - 26% with both INSA and GMS yesterday. Greens steady on 21% - SPD 17%, AfD and FDP both at 11% and Linke on 8%.
Since the last Bundestag election in 2017, the changes are Union -7%, SPD -2.5%, AfD -1.5%, FDP +0.3%, Linke -1% and Greens +12%.
Greens, SPD and FDP very close to a majority on these numbers (49%) while CDU/CSU/Green is on 47%.
The fragmentation of German politics from an ostensibly two-party to a five-party system has been remarkable.
Meanwhile, we have the Bulgarian election on Sunday.
The latest Rego poll puts the Socialists on 28% (+2) and the governing GERB on 25.5% (-1.5%). In third, we have ITN which as we know is the populist party founded by Stanislav Trifonov which has been strongly supportive of the various protests against the GERB government led by the colourful Boyko Borisov who was once Todor Zhivkov's bodyguard.
The centrist DPS are on 9% with ISMV on 7% - the latter are pro-EU and anti-corruption (apparently they are connected to Volt who won seats in the recent Dutch election and are a pan-European movement) and Democratic Bulgaria on 5%.
ECB ponders Covid passports to get fans back into grounds for championship
ECB exploring all possibilities for spectators to return
New season will begin without fans on 8 April
As the county season prepares to burst into life on 8 April with the first round of Championship matches, the ECB revealed that it is pondering the use of Covid passports once crowds are again allowed into grounds.
Games will be played in front of empty stands until at least 17 May, when venues will be allowed to fill up to 25% capacity. The ECB is then exploring all possibilities to allow as many people through the turnstiles as possible once most restrictions are lifted, in theory, on 21 June – though much will depend on government guidance and the needs of different local authorities.
“There has been a lot of talk,” said Neil Snowball, the ECB’s managing director of county cricket. “We have gone from no passports to suddenly now looking at a Covid certification. We will explore anything that enables us to get our members back and our spectators back. At the moment it looks like that might happen.
“If you look at 21 June, it is going to be a question of balancing three things. One, if there is going to be some sort of passport or Covid certification, second is testing, third is some sort of social distancing – and we have said we will do whatever we are asked to do to make sure we can get the maximum number of people back.
“The ideal would be some sort of certification with an element of social distancing and probably wearing masks.”
The average crowd at a county cricket match is about fourteen so social distancing shouldn't be a problem - though FWIW once (at the very latest) everybody has been jabbed once, then that requirement ought to go in the dustbin.
More generally I'm not attending any event where the pleasure of it is ruined by having to sit there throughout in a bloody stupid face mask.
Well quite. We didn't even have to wear masks outside at the height of the pandemic in January. And yet some idiots think it should be a necessary threshold to attending a bl**dy county cricket match! And, anyway, don't most people attending County matches spend most of the day eating and drinking?
Personally i can't wear a mask and my glasses at the same time (they just steam up). So, although my eyesight isn't that bad, wearing a mask at a spectator event like cricket is completely out.
Also, finally, under the "official" road map, isn't 21st June supposed to be the date at which ALL restrictions (including social distancing etc) are lifted? Whether that is actually sensible or not, i don't know, but given that is the road map, why are things like sporting events bending over backwards to not take the roadmap at it's word?
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
For fuck's sake. If I have to wear a face mask for a leusure activity, I'm not going to do it. I'll wear one to go to a shop - because I need stuff - but anything I can get away without purchasing, I will.
Don't worry you won't need a mask if the ECB have access to a database showing that you're full vaccinated.
I don’t want the imbeciles who thought the Hundred a good idea to have access to anything, thanks.
They’re almost as useless as the DfE.
I'm somebody who is a member of two counties I'm so opposed to franchise cricket but I am coming round to the idea that is a necessary evil, to combat the power of India.
Franchise cricket is one thing.
Why the One Hundred though? It's ridiculous, just go for a T20.
EU trying to save their dodgy deal with China by sucking up to them again after the sanctions. They really are despicable.
Or they've burned their bridges with Western pharmaceutical companies and are needing to keep their options open in relation to the Chinese vaccines...
The EU will use essentially no Chinese vaccines. None have even been submitted for approval.
The EU has annoyed a bunch of pharma companies (which will work in the UK's interests). But it is still an enormous economic bloc.
EU production of CV19 vaccines is growing, and will continue to grow.
For fuck's sake. If I have to wear a face mask for a leusure activity, I'm not going to do it. I'll wear one to go to a shop - because I need stuff - but anything I can get away without purchasing, I will.
Don't worry you won't need a mask if the ECB have access to a database showing that you're full vaccinated.
I don’t want the imbeciles who thought the Hundred a good idea to have access to anything, thanks.
They’re almost as useless as the DfE.
I'm somebody who is a member of two counties I'm so opposed to franchise cricket but I am coming round to the idea that is a necessary evil, to combat the power of India.
#hedgingyourbets? I’ll admit to being a Hampshire man, with a fondness for Somerset. The team I play for is (just) inside Gloucestershire, but there’s no love there...
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I agree, while I wont vote tory currently and havent done since 2010, that means I dont vote mostly. Vaxports would make me actively vote against them
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
In north London, lockdown ended a few days ago
Camden lock was rammed this evening, likewise Waterlow Park. Gorgeous weather, impromptu bands, picnics, wine evenings, queues for excellent Indonesian laksas, the works.
It was noisy and chaotic and it was brilliant. Young people are desperate to get out, to see and be seen, to socialise, flirt, party, make love - it's what they are meant to do, and they have been repressed for a year, and prevented from doing it. All power to them - they have, in many ways, sacrificed the most.
Animal spirits are returning.
Until recently I thought Covid would be a major negative for big cities. Now I wonder. It is possible big cities will become MORE popular - especially with the young - as people clamour for the urban buzz and a social life, once again.
Put it another way. After a year of sitting in the garden (at best) who wants to carry on sitting in the garden? Who wants to go for ANOTHER lonely walk in a field?
People will want clubs, bars, theatres, galleries, restaurants. They will want CITIES
EU trying to save their dodgy deal with China by sucking up to them again after the sanctions. They really are despicable.
Or they've burned their bridges with Western pharmaceutical companies and are needing to keep their options open in relation to the Chinese vaccines...
The EU will use essentially no Chinese vaccines. None have even been submitted for approval.
The EU has annoyed a bunch of pharma companies (which will work in the UK's interests). But it is still an enormous economic bloc.
EU production of CV19 vaccines is growing, and will continue to grow.
For fuck's sake. If I have to wear a face mask for a leusure activity, I'm not going to do it. I'll wear one to go to a shop - because I need stuff - but anything I can get away without purchasing, I will.
Don't worry you won't need a mask if the ECB have access to a database showing that you're full vaccinated.
I don’t want the imbeciles who thought the Hundred a good idea to have access to anything, thanks.
They’re almost as useless as the DfE.
I'm somebody who is a member of two counties I'm so opposed to franchise cricket but I am coming round to the idea that is a necessary evil, to combat the power of India.
Franchise cricket is one thing.
Why the One Hundred though? It's ridiculous, just go for a T20.
They said it was to make sure it could fit in a three hour broadcasting slot.
But there were considerably better ways of doing that, starting with making the players play more quickly rather than resetting the field every ball.
But there has always been more than a suspicion the real reason for the Hundred is to get rid of those counties that don’t host Tests.
For fuck's sake. If I have to wear a face mask for a leusure activity, I'm not going to do it. I'll wear one to go to a shop - because I need stuff - but anything I can get away without purchasing, I will.
Don't worry you won't need a mask if the ECB have access to a database showing that you're full vaccinated.
I don’t want the imbeciles who thought the Hundred a good idea to have access to anything, thanks.
They’re almost as useless as the DfE.
I'm somebody who is a member of two counties I'm so opposed to franchise cricket but I am coming round to the idea that is a necessary evil, to combat the power of India.
Franchise cricket is one thing.
Why the One Hundred though? It's ridiculous, just go for a T20.
They said it was to make sure it could fit in a three hour broadcasting slot.
But there were considerably better ways of doing that, starting with making the players play more quickly rather than resetting the field every ball.
But there has always been more than a suspicion the real reason for the Hundred is to get rid of those counties that don’t host Tests.
Good night.
I think it’s also partly to make a point of difference from T20.
For fuck's sake. If I have to wear a face mask for a leusure activity, I'm not going to do it. I'll wear one to go to a shop - because I need stuff - but anything I can get away without purchasing, I will.
Don't worry you won't need a mask if the ECB have access to a database showing that you're full vaccinated.
I don’t want the imbeciles who thought the Hundred a good idea to have access to anything, thanks.
They’re almost as useless as the DfE.
I'm somebody who is a member of two counties I'm so opposed to franchise cricket but I am coming round to the idea that is a necessary evil, to combat the power of India.
Franchise cricket is one thing.
Why the One Hundred though? It's ridiculous, just go for a T20.
They said it was to make sure it could fit in a three hour broadcasting slot.
But there were considerably better ways of doing that, starting with making the players play more quickly rather than resetting the field every ball.
But there has always been more than a suspicion the real reason for the Hundred is to get rid of those counties that don’t host Tests.
Good night.
The three hour thing is just bizarre.
Do the IPL struggle to get viewers because a T20 is deemed too long?
For fuck's sake. If I have to wear a face mask for a leusure activity, I'm not going to do it. I'll wear one to go to a shop - because I need stuff - but anything I can get away without purchasing, I will.
Don't worry you won't need a mask if the ECB have access to a database showing that you're full vaccinated.
I don’t want the imbeciles who thought the Hundred a good idea to have access to anything, thanks.
They’re almost as useless as the DfE.
I'm somebody who is a member of two counties I'm so opposed to franchise cricket but I am coming round to the idea that is a necessary evil, to combat the power of India.
#hedgingyourbets? I’ll admit to being a Hampshire man, with a fondness for Somerset. The team I play for is (just) inside Gloucestershire, but there’s no love there...
I'm a Yorkshireman through and through and I worked in Leeds City Centre between 2005 and 2011 so it was inevitable I became a YCCC member and I've kept my membership ever since.
However in 2011 I moved to Manchester and have worked there since 2011 so in 2012 I went to a few t20 matches at Old Trafford (with friends) and I noticed it was cheaper to be a member but the biggest advantage to being a Lancs member is the priority window for England matches at Old Trafford.
Plus I met someone special at Old Trafford (well The Point and the Hilton) so I can't cancel my membership or I'll get into trouble.
How is Johnson going to get vaccine app/passport through HoC?
Only if Starmer whips his troops to support it. Pretty sure there are enough believers in a free country on the tory backbenchers to stop it otherwise.
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
This is interesting. EC official claiming that this makes a difference. From Reuters.
To me it looks like a carefully worded statement designed to perhaps unruffle feathers, that makes no practical difference as it will have no real impact on the current position.
It does not admit that the EU can obtain vaccine from the UK. It says it is possible (which we all know already), but identifies no mechanism where it can be forced.
It is also from an EC official, so there may be weasel words involved. Tweet at bottom.
Ah but there's a distinction when the EU released the contract.
The UK government has a deal with AstraZeneca UK whereas the EU has a deal with AstraZeneca.
Why on earth did AstraZeneca commit to 100 million doses to the EU in Q1? OK, so you have 30 million actually delivered plus maybe 20 million stretch, which didn't materialise. Fair enough. Where did they think the other 50 million doses would come from? They would know the UK plants are accounted for, leaving just two plants in the EU, one of which was doubtful. They can't have done any planning whatever.
The EU should have challenged the numbers with the suppliers, but AZ are the ones that didn't deliver on their commitments, by an order of magnitude.
You don't know what they have 'committed' to. According to the contract, even the indicative delivery schedule is subject to regulatory approval, which wasn't in place when this all kicked off.
Back in January, the EU's contract negotiator said that they weren't expecting deliveries to pick up until April "as already agreed in the existing contracts" (https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/150587). This only became a massive political issue because other countries were able to vaccinate faster.
This is spot on.
The EU Commission simply never had the imagination to realise that normal life could return faster. They haggled over pricing, not delivery schedules. And then they had a temper tantrum when they realized they'd fucked up.
So normal life can return faster then? A little island of normal life in a Europe of Covid?
Normal life in the UK will return - one would hope - by the middle of May.
But you know what, the EU is (belatedly) getting there. Indeed, I'm going to go out on a limb, and say that the great EU vaccine debacle is coming to an end.
Why?
Three things:
1. The US is going to basically be done in eight weeks time. That means that the production capacity currently being used to fill US orders is going to be used elsewhere. And this is a LOT of capacity. Over the last three days, the US managed to get more than 10 million jabs in arms. J&J alone will deliver 11 million shots this week - and their pace of deliveries hasn't peaked yet.
2. Plants in Europe are finally ramping up. The Moderna plant in Switzerland is doing great. There are a couple of new Pfizer plants coming on board (and Pfizer has now increased its target production for this year to 2.5 billion shots - that's a trebling of expected production since the start of this year).
3. The Danes and the Austrians are getting excess Pfizer jabs from the Israelis. The Germans now say they'll be 60% done by the end of June (and if that's double jabbed with Pfizer/Moderna - then that's pretty well done). Other countries are sounding more optimistic about vaccines.
Simply, those charts at World of Data on EU vaccination doses per day are rising, and they're going to continue to rise. Now, will they be several months behind the UK, the US and Israel? Yes. And tens of thousands of people will have died unnecessarily, and normality will have been delayed by a quarter.
But normality (or what passes for it) will be back in the EU by September. There are simply too many vaccine doses available in the world for it not to be the case.
The issue is whether the EU has paid Pfizer for priority supply with their second tranche. As I read it they haven't and aren't expecting the additional purchases until well into H2, I'm assuming becuase they stuck rigidly to their lower pricing structure while even middle and lower income countries have realised saving money on vaccines is a false economy.
It doesn't matter.
Pfizer (and their increasing number of production partners) will be producing more than 5 million doses a day by the end of June, and the US isn't going to be taking any of them.
Now, I'm happy to have a small bet with you if you like.
I reckon that CV19 (and associated restrictions) will be functionally eliminated from the EU by the end of September 2021. That is, hospitalisation and deaths will be at or below the level of July 2020 and restrictions will be no more onerous than Hawaii is right now.
I don't think this is the issue any more. I think what counts now is whether the anti-vax movement in (particularly) France is now strong enough that the base take-up rate is insufficient to eliminate the virus and its latest variants, without additional restrictions.
May be we should permanently lock up all French people? Just to be safe.
ECB ponders Covid passports to get fans back into grounds for championship
ECB exploring all possibilities for spectators to return
New season will begin without fans on 8 April
As the county season prepares to burst into life on 8 April with the first round of Championship matches, the ECB revealed that it is pondering the use of Covid passports once crowds are again allowed into grounds.
Games will be played in front of empty stands until at least 17 May, when venues will be allowed to fill up to 25% capacity. The ECB is then exploring all possibilities to allow as many people through the turnstiles as possible once most restrictions are lifted, in theory, on 21 June – though much will depend on government guidance and the needs of different local authorities.
“There has been a lot of talk,” said Neil Snowball, the ECB’s managing director of county cricket. “We have gone from no passports to suddenly now looking at a Covid certification. We will explore anything that enables us to get our members back and our spectators back. At the moment it looks like that might happen.
“If you look at 21 June, it is going to be a question of balancing three things. One, if there is going to be some sort of passport or Covid certification, second is testing, third is some sort of social distancing – and we have said we will do whatever we are asked to do to make sure we can get the maximum number of people back.
“The ideal would be some sort of certification with an element of social distancing and probably wearing masks.”
The idea that vaccine passports have any role to play in allowing spectators into County cricket matches just shows to some extent how there is a danger that "passport" serving wider Government purposes become a solution to a non-existent problem. If the Government decrees that spectators at county cricket matches represents a "covid problem" then frankly they shouldn't be opening anything up. I spent all afternoon, at a time when we've barely opened up at all, outside in an environment that was far more "relatively" dangerous than anything you would encounter at a County cricket match.
The issue is that the Government gets to decide what is a Covid problem, so gets to "encourage" passports as a solution.
If a stadium feels confident letting 20,000 spectators in with a passport scheme, but doesn't without, then why shouldn't they have the choice?
So long as it's their choice not a requirement.
I understand your basic position. But i think you are being very naive about the idea that this idea is being pushed by the Government as a "voluntary" option for businesses. Even if it is voluntary on paper, it will be de facto compulsory for any businesses wanting to open up properly. I don't believe that any business will opt in to such a scheme unless forced to and/or majorly incentivised to do so.
I don't remotely think its a case of "customer confidence". It's simply that the Government will impose conditions unless you opt in. Young people don't care. Older people are vaccinated and feel safe. Those that might be reluctant will be vastly dwarfed by those who are keen. And enforcement will come with a major cost to business, so very few will go for it voluntarily.
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
In north London, lockdown ended a few days ago
Camden lock was rammed this evening, likewise Waterlow Park. Gorgeous weather, impromptu bands, picnics, wine evenings, queues for excellent Indonesian laksas, the works.
It was noisy and chaotic and it was brilliant. Young people are desperate to get out, to see and be seen, to socialise, flirt, party, make love - it's what they are meant to do, and they have been repressed for a year, and prevented from doing it. All power to them - they have, in many ways, sacrificed the most.
Animal spirits are returning.
Until recently I thought Covid would be a major negative for big cities. Now I wonder. It is possible big cities will become MORE popular - especially with the young - as people clamour for the urban buzz and a social life, once again.
Put it another way. After a year of sitting in the garden (at best) who wants to carry on sitting in the garden? Who wants to go for ANOTHER lonely walk in a field?
People will want clubs, bars, theatres, galleries, restaurants. They will want CITIES
But they may only be able to have them if they are prepared to allow a government app to track every time they enter and leave one of those places.
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
Israel's lockdown ended slightly later than that - in early March IIRC. Also, the "time to effective" is quicker in Israel with Pfizer than in the UK with AstraZeneca.
For fuck's sake. If I have to wear a face mask for a leusure activity, I'm not going to do it. I'll wear one to go to a shop - because I need stuff - but anything I can get away without purchasing, I will.
Don't worry you won't need a mask if the ECB have access to a database showing that you're full vaccinated.
I don’t want the imbeciles who thought the Hundred a good idea to have access to anything, thanks.
They’re almost as useless as the DfE.
I'm somebody who is a member of two counties I'm so opposed to franchise cricket but I am coming round to the idea that is a necessary evil, to combat the power of India.
Franchise cricket is one thing.
Why the One Hundred though? It's ridiculous, just go for a T20.
They said it was to make sure it could fit in a three hour broadcasting slot.
But there were considerably better ways of doing that, starting with making the players play more quickly rather than resetting the field every ball.
But there has always been more than a suspicion the real reason for the Hundred is to get rid of those counties that don’t host Tests.
Good night.
I think it’s also partly to make a point of difference from T20.
If they wanted to distinguish themselves from other tournaments, they could have said two women, whose runs scored count double and boundaries conceded are halved, have to play in each side
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I'd like to see some opinion polls on the topic. I suspect it's a very minority interest. Most people will either shrug and comply or indeed actively welcome vaccine passports imo.
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I agree, while I wont vote tory currently and havent done since 2010, that means I dont vote mostly. Vaxports would make me actively vote against them
I will not vote for any party that supports this. It is a complete nightmare. So much for the conservatives being the party of the free born englishman and all that.
EU trying to save their dodgy deal with China by sucking up to them again after the sanctions. They really are despicable.
Or they've burned their bridges with Western pharmaceutical companies and are needing to keep their options open in relation to the Chinese vaccines...
The EU will use essentially no Chinese vaccines. None have even been submitted for approval.
The EU has annoyed a bunch of pharma companies (which will work in the UK's interests). But it is still an enormous economic bloc.
EU production of CV19 vaccines is growing, and will continue to grow.
It may be an enormous economic bloc, but it's acting like a pauper in a thrift shop looking for a bargain, arguing interminably over pricing and delayed deliveries. They still haven't had their "whatever it takes" moment that Rishi had in April 2020 and even the Trump administration had over vaccines in the summer of 2020.
For fuck's sake. If I have to wear a face mask for a leusure activity, I'm not going to do it. I'll wear one to go to a shop - because I need stuff - but anything I can get away without purchasing, I will.
Don't worry you won't need a mask if the ECB have access to a database showing that you're full vaccinated.
I don’t want the imbeciles who thought the Hundred a good idea to have access to anything, thanks.
They’re almost as useless as the DfE.
I'm somebody who is a member of two counties I'm so opposed to franchise cricket but I am coming round to the idea that is a necessary evil, to combat the power of India.
Franchise cricket is one thing.
Why the One Hundred though? It's ridiculous, just go for a T20.
They said it was to make sure it could fit in a three hour broadcasting slot.
But there were considerably better ways of doing that, starting with making the players play more quickly rather than resetting the field every ball.
But there has always been more than a suspicion the real reason for the Hundred is to get rid of those counties that don’t host Tests.
Good night.
I think it’s also partly to make a point of difference from T20.
If they wanted to distinguish themselves from other tournaments, they could have said two women, whose runs scored count double and boundaries conceded are halved, have to play in each side
"DeSantis said he believes people “have certain freedoms and individual liberties” to decide whether to get the vaccine and conveyed concerns about privacy if such a program was launched.
“You’re going to do this and what, give all this information to some big corporation?” the governor said. “You want the fox to guard the hen house? I mean give me a break.”
"Porn has corrupted our children – and we let it happen Our offspring wander through the dank dungeon of the internet largely without supervision so we shouldn't be shocked at the damage it causes ALLISON PEARSON" {£}
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I'd like to see some opinion polls on the topic. I suspect it's a very minority interest. Most people will either shrug and comply or indeed actively welcome vaccine passports imo.
Yes, agreed. See the reaction to lockdown. Most people either agreed with it or wanted more SEVERE lockdown, not less.
Vaccine passports will enable something like "normal" life to resume quicker than it would otherwise. This will be the case for a year or two, then we can get rid of them. Like ID cards in WW2
Fervent opposition to Vaxports will be a niche interest, comprising less than 10% of the country. Maybe less than 5%. Like anti-vaxxery. I cannot see any major party taking up the cause
ECB ponders Covid passports to get fans back into grounds for championship
ECB exploring all possibilities for spectators to return
New season will begin without fans on 8 April
As the county season prepares to burst into life on 8 April with the first round of Championship matches, the ECB revealed that it is pondering the use of Covid passports once crowds are again allowed into grounds.
Games will be played in front of empty stands until at least 17 May, when venues will be allowed to fill up to 25% capacity. The ECB is then exploring all possibilities to allow as many people through the turnstiles as possible once most restrictions are lifted, in theory, on 21 June – though much will depend on government guidance and the needs of different local authorities.
“There has been a lot of talk,” said Neil Snowball, the ECB’s managing director of county cricket. “We have gone from no passports to suddenly now looking at a Covid certification. We will explore anything that enables us to get our members back and our spectators back. At the moment it looks like that might happen.
“If you look at 21 June, it is going to be a question of balancing three things. One, if there is going to be some sort of passport or Covid certification, second is testing, third is some sort of social distancing – and we have said we will do whatever we are asked to do to make sure we can get the maximum number of people back.
“The ideal would be some sort of certification with an element of social distancing and probably wearing masks.”
The average crowd at a county cricket match is about fourteen so social distancing shouldn't be a problem - though FWIW once (at the very latest) everybody has been jabbed once, then that requirement ought to go in the dustbin.
More generally I'm not attending any event where the pleasure of it is ruined by having to sit there throughout in a bloody stupid face mask.
T20 blast matches are rammed, full capacity, ditto England matches, I think that's the issue.
Once the vaccination program is completed then there shouldn't be an issue, and the interval between spectator events opening up again and that happening oughtn't to be long enough to justify the creation of some elaborate enforcement system.
The Government can simply impose limits on crowd numbers (which I believe they intend to do anyway) for the interim, and then chuck all the rules in the dustbin when the jabs are done. If the entire adult population, other than a quite modest number of anti-vaxxers, having been inoculated isn't sufficient condition for us to go back to normal - which includes not having a plod or some tinpot official demanding "papers please" twenty times a day - then we're never going back to normal ever, are we? That's not acceptable - or it shouldn't be, anyway.
"Porn has corrupted our children – and we let it happen Our offspring wander through the dank dungeon of the internet largely without supervision so we shouldn't be shocked at the damage it causes ALLISON PEARSON" {£}
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
"DeSantis said he believes people “have certain freedoms and individual liberties” to decide whether to get the vaccine and conveyed concerns about privacy if such a program was launched.
“You’re going to do this and what, give all this information to some big corporation?” the governor said. “You want the fox to guard the hen house? I mean give me a break.”
DeSantis thinks that if a clown like Trumpsky can get elected POTUS, then a clown like DeSantis can do it too.
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
In north London, lockdown ended a few days ago
Camden lock was rammed this evening, likewise Waterlow Park. Gorgeous weather, impromptu bands, picnics, wine evenings, queues for excellent Indonesian laksas, the works.
It was noisy and chaotic and it was brilliant. Young people are desperate to get out, to see and be seen, to socialise, flirt, party, make love - it's what they are meant to do, and they have been repressed for a year, and prevented from doing it. All power to them - they have, in many ways, sacrificed the most.
Animal spirits are returning.
Until recently I thought Covid would be a major negative for big cities. Now I wonder. It is possible big cities will become MORE popular - especially with the young - as people clamour for the urban buzz and a social life, once again.
Put it another way. After a year of sitting in the garden (at best) who wants to carry on sitting in the garden? Who wants to go for ANOTHER lonely walk in a field?
People will want clubs, bars, theatres, galleries, restaurants. They will want CITIES
But they may only be able to have them if they are prepared to allow a government app to track every time they enter and leave one of those places.
They won't care. If they have to get an app, they will do it, they just want to drink and have fun and be young. A lot of them are very used to being carded down the Spoons for age. This is just another version of that
Seriously, PB is a wildly skewed demographic when it comes to libertarian issues, most people do not think like us (I count myself still as a moderate libertarian)
EU trying to save their dodgy deal with China by sucking up to them again after the sanctions. They really are despicable.
Or they've burned their bridges with Western pharmaceutical companies and are needing to keep their options open in relation to the Chinese vaccines...
The EU will use essentially no Chinese vaccines. None have even been submitted for approval.
The EU has annoyed a bunch of pharma companies (which will work in the UK's interests). But it is still an enormous economic bloc.
EU production of CV19 vaccines is growing, and will continue to grow.
It may be an enormous economic bloc, but it's acting like a pauper in a thrift shop looking for a bargain, arguing interminably over pricing and delayed deliveries. They still haven't had their "whatever it takes" moment that Rishi had in April 2020 and even the Trump administration had over vaccines in the summer of 2020.
It's absolutely astonishing. Even the latest stuff over the risks of AZ is absurd. The argument is put that "why should young people be exposed to the risk of the vaccine when the virus is harmless to them". Well it isn't. Not if you objectively assess the risks to young people from the vaccine (even assuming this blood clot stuff is justified) against the relative risk of the virus. The vaccine is being built up as potentially harmful against a "harmless" virus. The statements are not operating with the same common denominators.
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
I stand by my prediction that the next few months will see immense pressure to speed up reopening. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few letters to Sir Graham publicly renouncing confidence unless lockdown is lifted sooner.
If the Govt. are stupid enough to even think about introducing vaxports for domestic use, the backbenches will rightly go crazy.
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I'd like to see some opinion polls on the topic. I suspect it's a very minority interest. Most people will either shrug and comply or indeed actively welcome vaccine passports imo.
Yes, agreed. See the reaction to lockdown. Most people either agreed with it or wanted more SEVERE lockdown, not less.
Vaccine passports will enable something like "normal" life to resume quicker than it would otherwise. This will be the case for a year or two, then we can get rid of them. Like ID cards in WW2
Fervent opposition to Vaxports will be a niche interest, comprising less than 10% of the country. Maybe less than 5%. Like anti-vaxxery. I cannot see any major party taking up the cause
Last poll is about 30 odd percent opposed. If they impose vaxports my money will be staying in my pocket not being spent in venues I wont visit because they have to vaxport.
Good luck with those businesses getting back on their feet if that 30% do the same thing. That also assumes that the 30% objecting aren't the same 30% that was the number of people visiting bars and restaurants in the first place
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
Do you have an Oyster card?
Of course, they still didn't know I was going to the pub and even that information requires a warrant becuase Oyster is a private company and its data isn't held by the state.
I'm surprised that you're so willing to throw away your hard won judicial protections and due process under the guise of "saving the NHS" after that's already been achieved.
Vaccine passports for international travel, sure. A non-biometric physical card for domestic use that has a six month or year time limit, sure. An app that requires check-ins and entry scans at all venues? Get tae fuck.
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
I stand by my prediction that the next few months will see immense pressure to speed up reopening. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few letters to Sir Graham publicly renouncing confidence unless lockdown is lifted sooner.
If the Govt. are stupid enough to even think about introducing vaxports for domestic use, the backbenches will rightly go crazy.
You've been saying that for most of lockdown, no one has gone public in that time.
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I'd like to see some opinion polls on the topic. I suspect it's a very minority interest. Most people will either shrug and comply or indeed actively welcome vaccine passports imo.
Yes, agreed. See the reaction to lockdown. Most people either agreed with it or wanted more SEVERE lockdown, not less.
Vaccine passports will enable something like "normal" life to resume quicker than it would otherwise. This will be the case for a year or two, then we can get rid of them. Like ID cards in WW2
Fervent opposition to Vaxports will be a niche interest, comprising less than 10% of the country. Maybe less than 5%. Like anti-vaxxery. I cannot see any major party taking up the cause
Last poll is about 30 odd percent opposed. If they impose vaxports my money will be staying in my pocket not being spent in venues I wont visit because they have to vaxport.
Good luck with those businesses getting back on their feet if that 30% do the same thing. That also assumes that the 30% objecting aren't the same 30% that was the number of people visiting bars and restaurants in the first place
Link?
I'd be surprised if this "opposition" to vaxports is any firmer than Somerset snow in April
ECB ponders Covid passports to get fans back into grounds for championship
ECB exploring all possibilities for spectators to return
New season will begin without fans on 8 April
As the county season prepares to burst into life on 8 April with the first round of Championship matches, the ECB revealed that it is pondering the use of Covid passports once crowds are again allowed into grounds.
Games will be played in front of empty stands until at least 17 May, when venues will be allowed to fill up to 25% capacity. The ECB is then exploring all possibilities to allow as many people through the turnstiles as possible once most restrictions are lifted, in theory, on 21 June – though much will depend on government guidance and the needs of different local authorities.
“There has been a lot of talk,” said Neil Snowball, the ECB’s managing director of county cricket. “We have gone from no passports to suddenly now looking at a Covid certification. We will explore anything that enables us to get our members back and our spectators back. At the moment it looks like that might happen.
“If you look at 21 June, it is going to be a question of balancing three things. One, if there is going to be some sort of passport or Covid certification, second is testing, third is some sort of social distancing – and we have said we will do whatever we are asked to do to make sure we can get the maximum number of people back.
“The ideal would be some sort of certification with an element of social distancing and probably wearing masks.”
The average crowd at a county cricket match is about fourteen so social distancing shouldn't be a problem - though FWIW once (at the very latest) everybody has been jabbed once, then that requirement ought to go in the dustbin.
More generally I'm not attending any event where the pleasure of it is ruined by having to sit there throughout in a bloody stupid face mask.
Well quite. We didn't even have to wear masks outside at the height of the pandemic in January. And yet some idiots think it should be a necessary threshold to attending a bl**dy county cricket match! And, anyway, don't most people attending County matches spend most of the day eating and drinking?
Personally i can't wear a mask and my glasses at the same time (they just steam up). So, although my eyesight isn't that bad, wearing a mask at a spectator event like cricket is completely out.
Also, finally, under the "official" road map, isn't 21st June supposed to be the date at which ALL restrictions (including social distancing etc) are lifted? Whether that is actually sensible or not, i don't know, but given that is the road map, why are things like sporting events bending over backwards to not take the roadmap at it's word?
The covid restriction Stockholm syndrome is so frustrating, isn't it.
I've noticed mask wearing has really dropped this week. I'd say down to 60% on trains around here now. Given there is almost no community spread, I'm not surprised.
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I'd like to see some opinion polls on the topic. I suspect it's a very minority interest. Most people will either shrug and comply or indeed actively welcome vaccine passports imo.
Yes, agreed. See the reaction to lockdown. Most people either agreed with it or wanted more SEVERE lockdown, not less.
Vaccine passports will enable something like "normal" life to resume quicker than it would otherwise. This will be the case for a year or two, then we can get rid of them. Like ID cards in WW2
Fervent opposition to Vaxports will be a niche interest, comprising less than 10% of the country. Maybe less than 5%. Like anti-vaxxery. I cannot see any major party taking up the cause
Last poll is about 30 odd percent opposed. If they impose vaxports my money will be staying in my pocket not being spent in venues I wont visit because they have to vaxport.
Good luck with those businesses getting back on their feet if that 30% do the same thing. That also assumes that the 30% objecting aren't the same 30% that was the number of people visiting bars and restaurants in the first place
Link?
I'd be surprised if this "opposition" to vaxports is any firmer than Somerset snow in April
Why would it make normality quicker? People need to get over themselves and accept a tiny amount of risk. Or if not, they can stay at home whilst the rest of us who have made sacrifices during the past year but understand basic science can flock to places.
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I'd like to see some opinion polls on the topic. I suspect it's a very minority interest. Most people will either shrug and comply or indeed actively welcome vaccine passports imo.
Yes, agreed. See the reaction to lockdown. Most people either agreed with it or wanted more SEVERE lockdown, not less.
Vaccine passports will enable something like "normal" life to resume quicker than it would otherwise. This will be the case for a year or two, then we can get rid of them. Like ID cards in WW2
Fervent opposition to Vaxports will be a niche interest, comprising less than 10% of the country. Maybe less than 5%. Like anti-vaxxery. I cannot see any major party taking up the cause
Last poll is about 30 odd percent opposed. If they impose vaxports my money will be staying in my pocket not being spent in venues I wont visit because they have to vaxport.
Good luck with those businesses getting back on their feet if that 30% do the same thing. That also assumes that the 30% objecting aren't the same 30% that was the number of people visiting bars and restaurants in the first place
Link?
I'd be surprised if this "opposition" to vaxports is any firmer than Somerset snow in April
It was posted a couple of days ago on pb, didnt note the link sure you can google it
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
In north London, lockdown ended a few days ago
Camden lock was rammed this evening, likewise Waterlow Park. Gorgeous weather, impromptu bands, picnics, wine evenings, queues for excellent Indonesian laksas, the works.
It was noisy and chaotic and it was brilliant. Young people are desperate to get out, to see and be seen, to socialise, flirt, party, make love - it's what they are meant to do, and they have been repressed for a year, and prevented from doing it. All power to them - they have, in many ways, sacrificed the most.
Animal spirits are returning.
Until recently I thought Covid would be a major negative for big cities. Now I wonder. It is possible big cities will become MORE popular - especially with the young - as people clamour for the urban buzz and a social life, once again.
Put it another way. After a year of sitting in the garden (at best) who wants to carry on sitting in the garden? Who wants to go for ANOTHER lonely walk in a field?
People will want clubs, bars, theatres, galleries, restaurants. They will want CITIES
But they may only be able to have them if they are prepared to allow a government app to track every time they enter and leave one of those places.
They won't care. If they have to get an app, they will do it, they just want to drink and have fun and be young. A lot of them are very used to being carded down the Spoons for age. This is just another version of that
Seriously, PB is a wildly skewed demographic when it comes to libertarian issues, most people do not think like us (I count myself still as a moderate libertarian)
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
I stand by my prediction that the next few months will see immense pressure to speed up reopening. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few letters to Sir Graham publicly renouncing confidence unless lockdown is lifted sooner.
If the Govt. are stupid enough to even think about introducing vaxports for domestic use, the backbenches will rightly go crazy.
You've been saying that for most of lockdown, no one has gone public in that time.
If you think Steve Baker is going to allow Vaxports to happen to appease a few fearties who don't understand basic concepts of epidemiology, I have a bridge to sell you.
I don't think any one of us on here concerned about the implications, real driving forces and potential consequences of vaccine passports would be concerned about them if we thought that they would be wildly unpopular.
The issue is that they won't be which makes them easy to introduce. Especially from a Government that can (arbitrarily if it wishes) set the rules restricting what activity can be carried out without them.
People think, "well if a vaccine passport is necessary to do X, then i will accept a vaccine passport because i really want to do X".
What they don't realise is that a vaccine passport is only necessary because the Government decrees it so.
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I'd like to see some opinion polls on the topic. I suspect it's a very minority interest. Most people will either shrug and comply or indeed actively welcome vaccine passports imo.
Yes, agreed. See the reaction to lockdown. Most people either agreed with it or wanted more SEVERE lockdown, not less.
Vaccine passports will enable something like "normal" life to resume quicker than it would otherwise. This will be the case for a year or two, then we can get rid of them. Like ID cards in WW2
Fervent opposition to Vaxports will be a niche interest, comprising less than 10% of the country. Maybe less than 5%. Like anti-vaxxery. I cannot see any major party taking up the cause
Last poll is about 30 odd percent opposed. If they impose vaxports my money will be staying in my pocket not being spent in venues I wont visit because they have to vaxport.
Good luck with those businesses getting back on their feet if that 30% do the same thing. That also assumes that the 30% objecting aren't the same 30% that was the number of people visiting bars and restaurants in the first place
Link?
I'd be surprised if this "opposition" to vaxports is any firmer than Somerset snow in April
It was posted a couple of days ago on pb, didnt note the link sure you can google it
It is customary on PB for notable claims to be notably evidenced. Like someone claiming they speak a long dead language, descended through the mother tongue via their family, against all known laws of linguistics.
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
I stand by my prediction that the next few months will see immense pressure to speed up reopening. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few letters to Sir Graham publicly renouncing confidence unless lockdown is lifted sooner.
If the Govt. are stupid enough to even think about introducing vaxports for domestic use, the backbenches will rightly go crazy.
You've been saying that for most of lockdown, no one has gone public in that time.
If you think Steve Baker is going to allow Vaxports to happen to appease a few fearties who don't understand basic concepts of epidemiology, I have a bridge to sell you.
The problem is Labour. The numbers aren't there on the Tory benches to get this through but Keith is a complete chump who will blindly vote in favour of whatever Boris and the health bods controlling his puppet strings come up with.
"DeSantis said he believes people “have certain freedoms and individual liberties” to decide whether to get the vaccine and conveyed concerns about privacy if such a program was launched.
“You’re going to do this and what, give all this information to some big corporation?” the governor said. “You want the fox to guard the hen house? I mean give me a break.”
DeSantis thinks that if a clown like Trumpsky can get elected POTUS, then a clown like DeSantis can do it too.
So much of a clown that businesses and individuals are fleeing California and New York for Florida.
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
I stand by my prediction that the next few months will see immense pressure to speed up reopening. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few letters to Sir Graham publicly renouncing confidence unless lockdown is lifted sooner.
If the Govt. are stupid enough to even think about introducing vaxports for domestic use, the backbenches will rightly go crazy.
The backbenches will cave when polling shows they are popular. Only a small number of diehards will stick to their "personal principles"
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
Do you have an Oyster card?
Of course, they still didn't know I was going to the pub and even that information requires a warrant becuase Oyster is a private company and its data isn't held by the state.
I'm surprised that you're so willing to throw away your hard won judicial protections and due process under the guise of "saving the NHS" after that's already been achieved.
Vaccine passports for international travel, sure. A non-biometric physical card for domestic use that has a six month or year time limit, sure. An app that requires check-ins and entry scans at all venues? Get tae fuck.
Incidentally I didn't get the check in app last year. I tried, but it wouldn't install on my phone, which also wouldn't upgrade. I was offered paper occasionally. That paper version was only collected once in about, what, say, 25 visits to pubs or cafes...
The idea that biz is going to turn away patrons for not using the correct app (that a good 25% of people won't be able to manage anyway) is farcical....
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I'd like to see some opinion polls on the topic. I suspect it's a very minority interest. Most people will either shrug and comply or indeed actively welcome vaccine passports imo.
Yes, agreed. See the reaction to lockdown. Most people either agreed with it or wanted more SEVERE lockdown, not less.
Vaccine passports will enable something like "normal" life to resume quicker than it would otherwise. This will be the case for a year or two, then we can get rid of them. Like ID cards in WW2
Fervent opposition to Vaxports will be a niche interest, comprising less than 10% of the country. Maybe less than 5%. Like anti-vaxxery. I cannot see any major party taking up the cause
Last poll is about 30 odd percent opposed. If they impose vaxports my money will be staying in my pocket not being spent in venues I wont visit because they have to vaxport.
Good luck with those businesses getting back on their feet if that 30% do the same thing. That also assumes that the 30% objecting aren't the same 30% that was the number of people visiting bars and restaurants in the first place
Link?
I'd be surprised if this "opposition" to vaxports is any firmer than Somerset snow in April
Why would it make normality quicker? People need to get over themselves and accept a tiny amount of risk. Or if not, they can stay at home whilst the rest of us who have made sacrifices during the past year but understand basic science can flock to places.
"This will be the case for a year or two, then we can get rid of them."
If you believe that I have a brace of bridges to sell you.
If we go down the route of a health status app for entry to public places we will never be free of it.
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
Do you have an Oyster card?
I've used mine only four times since March last year!
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
Do you have an Oyster card?
Of course, they still didn't know I was going to the pub and even that information requires a warrant becuase Oyster is a private company and its data isn't held by the state.
I'm surprised that you're so willing to throw away your hard won judicial protections and due process under the guise of "saving the NHS" after that's already been achieved.
Vaccine passports for international travel, sure. A non-biometric physical card for domestic use that has a six month or year time limit, sure. An app that requires check-ins and entry scans at all venues? Get tae fuck.
I'm not, sadly I'm resigned to this government doing this and how they will try and justify it, I'm pointing out all the warning signs were there when they went for the Henry VIII powers during Brexit.
As Matt Singh has pointed out during the pandemic one of the many consistent things during pandemic polling is this
I don't think any one of us on here concerned about the implications, real driving forces and potential consequences of vaccine passports would be concerned about them if we thought that they would be wildly unpopular.
The issue is that they won't be which makes them easy to introduce. Especially from a Government that can (arbitrarily if it wishes) set the rules restricting what activity can be carried out without them.
People think, "well if a vaccine passport is necessary to do X, then i will accept a vaccine passport because i really want to do X".
What they don't realise is that a vaccine passport is only necessary because the Government decrees it so.
And if they introduce them they will take money out of the hospitality industry because people like you will say fuck you and not spend it. I don't need the hospitality industry it is merely convenient frankly though if it all goes bust I can manage quite happily without it with meals round peoples houses and drinks round other peoples houses as we have been doing all this year.
The hospitality industry is a nice to have but not a necessity
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
Do you have an Oyster card?
Of course, they still didn't know I was going to the pub and even that information requires a warrant becuase Oyster is a private company and its data isn't held by the state.
I'm surprised that you're so willing to throw away your hard won judicial protections and due process under the guise of "saving the NHS" after that's already been achieved.
Vaccine passports for international travel, sure. A non-biometric physical card for domestic use that has a six month or year time limit, sure. An app that requires check-ins and entry scans at all venues? Get tae fuck.
Nobody here AFAIK is supporting check ins and entry scans at all venues.
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
I stand by my prediction that the next few months will see immense pressure to speed up reopening. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few letters to Sir Graham publicly renouncing confidence unless lockdown is lifted sooner.
If the Govt. are stupid enough to even think about introducing vaxports for domestic use, the backbenches will rightly go crazy.
The backbenches will cave when polling shows they are popular. Only a small number of diehards will stick to their "personal principles"
Not sure actually. There is a not insignificant number of Tory MPs who have no real career ambitions and quite a lot of principles.
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I'd like to see some opinion polls on the topic. I suspect it's a very minority interest. Most people will either shrug and comply or indeed actively welcome vaccine passports imo.
Yes, agreed. See the reaction to lockdown. Most people either agreed with it or wanted more SEVERE lockdown, not less.
Vaccine passports will enable something like "normal" life to resume quicker than it would otherwise. This will be the case for a year or two, then we can get rid of them. Like ID cards in WW2
Fervent opposition to Vaxports will be a niche interest, comprising less than 10% of the country. Maybe less than 5%. Like anti-vaxxery. I cannot see any major party taking up the cause
Last poll is about 30 odd percent opposed. If they impose vaxports my money will be staying in my pocket not being spent in venues I wont visit because they have to vaxport.
Good luck with those businesses getting back on their feet if that 30% do the same thing. That also assumes that the 30% objecting aren't the same 30% that was the number of people visiting bars and restaurants in the first place
Link?
I'd be surprised if this "opposition" to vaxports is any firmer than Somerset snow in April
It was posted a couple of days ago on pb, didnt note the link sure you can google it
It is customary on PB for notable claims to be notably evidenced. Like someone claiming they speak a long dead language, descended through the mother tongue via their family, against all known laws of linguistics.
"Porn has corrupted our children – and we let it happen Our offspring wander through the dank dungeon of the internet largely without supervision so we shouldn't be shocked at the damage it causes ALLISON PEARSON" {£}
Dougal Ross spectacularly failing to win hearts and minds in the debate tonight, consensus that the Scots Tories have managed to find someone even more unlikeable than Jackson Carlaw.
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
Do you have an Oyster card?
Of course, they still didn't know I was going to the pub and even that information requires a warrant becuase Oyster is a private company and its data isn't held by the state.
I'm surprised that you're so willing to throw away your hard won judicial protections and due process under the guise of "saving the NHS" after that's already been achieved.
Vaccine passports for international travel, sure. A non-biometric physical card for domestic use that has a six month or year time limit, sure. An app that requires check-ins and entry scans at all venues? Get tae fuck.
Nobody here AFAIK is supporting check ins and entry scans at all venues.
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
I stand by my prediction that the next few months will see immense pressure to speed up reopening. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few letters to Sir Graham publicly renouncing confidence unless lockdown is lifted sooner.
If the Govt. are stupid enough to even think about introducing vaxports for domestic use, the backbenches will rightly go crazy.
You've been saying that for most of lockdown, no one has gone public in that time.
If you think Steve Baker is going to allow Vaxports to happen to appease a few fearties who don't understand basic concepts of epidemiology, I have a bridge to sell you.
The problem is Labour. The numbers aren't there on the Tory benches to get this through but Keith is a complete chump who will blindly vote in favour of whatever Boris and the health bods controlling his puppet strings come up with.
Indeed. I am seriously impressed with the Libs over this. It will encourage about another 25 Tory backbenchers to rebel, I suspect.
But as you say the problem is Labour. Least useful opposition I can remember.
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
I stand by my prediction that the next few months will see immense pressure to speed up reopening. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few letters to Sir Graham publicly renouncing confidence unless lockdown is lifted sooner.
If the Govt. are stupid enough to even think about introducing vaxports for domestic use, the backbenches will rightly go crazy.
You've been saying that for most of lockdown, no one has gone public in that time.
If you think Steve Baker is going to allow Vaxports to happen to appease a few fearties who don't understand basic concepts of epidemiology, I have a bridge to sell you.
If you think that Steve Baker has that much clout, you're the one buying the bridge.
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
Do you have an Oyster card?
Of course, they still didn't know I was going to the pub and even that information requires a warrant becuase Oyster is a private company and its data isn't held by the state.
I'm surprised that you're so willing to throw away your hard won judicial protections and due process under the guise of "saving the NHS" after that's already been achieved.
Vaccine passports for international travel, sure. A non-biometric physical card for domestic use that has a six month or year time limit, sure. An app that requires check-ins and entry scans at all venues? Get tae fuck.
Nobody here AFAIK is supporting check ins and entry scans at all venues.
A retelling of the Irish Rebellion of Easter 2016 (so, timely)
It passed me by when it came out (mid Golden Age, so we were drowned in fine TV drama) but it is really well done: good script, great acting, superbly rich scenography, you are there with the rebels and RIC as it unfolds.
It had oddly mixed reviews, especially in America and Ireland, despite its obvious quality. I wonder if this is because it is so nuanced: it does not play to Irish hero/British villain stereotypes (tho it has sympathies for the rebels) the mixed emotions and motives of many are excellently portrayed, and it is not afraid of making the Irish look murderous (also, the Brits).
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I'd like to see some opinion polls on the topic. I suspect it's a very minority interest. Most people will either shrug and comply or indeed actively welcome vaccine passports imo.
Yes, agreed. See the reaction to lockdown. Most people either agreed with it or wanted more SEVERE lockdown, not less.
Vaccine passports will enable something like "normal" life to resume quicker than it would otherwise. This will be the case for a year or two, then we can get rid of them. Like ID cards in WW2
Fervent opposition to Vaxports will be a niche interest, comprising less than 10% of the country. Maybe less than 5%. Like anti-vaxxery. I cannot see any major party taking up the cause
Last poll is about 30 odd percent opposed. If they impose vaxports my money will be staying in my pocket not being spent in venues I wont visit because they have to vaxport.
Good luck with those businesses getting back on their feet if that 30% do the same thing. That also assumes that the 30% objecting aren't the same 30% that was the number of people visiting bars and restaurants in the first place
Link?
I'd be surprised if this "opposition" to vaxports is any firmer than Somerset snow in April
It was posted a couple of days ago on pb, didnt note the link sure you can google it
I'm strongly opposed to vaccine passports. For a number of reasons, including i don't understand the scientific case for them in a world when most Britons are vaccinated. If the fear is of vaccine resistant variants - well vaccines don't help in that scenario anyway. I wonder how much of the current talk/proposals is actually being driven by the scientists, as opposed to the Civil Service taking over and convincing ministers.
But if i have to show one to go into a pub to have a drink with my friends i will still do it.
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
Do you have an Oyster card?
Of course, they still didn't know I was going to the pub and even that information requires a warrant becuase Oyster is a private company and its data isn't held by the state.
I'm surprised that you're so willing to throw away your hard won judicial protections and due process under the guise of "saving the NHS" after that's already been achieved.
Vaccine passports for international travel, sure. A non-biometric physical card for domestic use that has a six month or year time limit, sure. An app that requires check-ins and entry scans at all venues? Get tae fuck.
Nobody here AFAIK is supporting check ins and entry scans at all venues.
Why do we need a covid status app when by the time it is up and running the vast majority of people will have been vaccinated?
Just in case the herd immunity level is 98%?
You catch on well, my friend
It is still my hope that this chatter about it is all a load of guff dreamed up by the Spi-B committee to nudge people into taking a vaccine.
However with my party activist hat on I am incensed. Frankly it makes me sick that the party which I work so hard for and donate significant amounts of money and time to can even contemplate such illiberal policies.
Dougal Ross spectacularly failing to win hearts and minds in the debate tonight, consensus that the Scots Tories have managed to find someone even more unlikeable than Jackson Carlaw.
I watched it and agree Ross was poor but Anas Sarwar was miles ahead and Sturgeon was on the defensive throughout, no more so than on independence which was not at all popular with the audience
The idea that HMG will use it for tracking citizens going about their lawful business is paranoid conspiracy theorists voodoo. There are just too many citizens to track for one thing.
A bigger concern is the potential disenfranchisement of the old, the poor, and the vulnerable who for whatever reason have not been smartphone adopters. Yes, there will be paper-based alternatives but these are almost bound to put those reliant on them at some form of a disadvantage.
That should be the concern, not the 'big brother' issue.
If they are paper based they will be forgeable and you will find them on ebay
Like driving licences?
Licences for driving haven't been paper based for a couple of decades.....mine still is as never had to send it off so still got the old paper one and yes they were forged in their time
Tories about to make a massive mistake imho.
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
I'd like to see some opinion polls on the topic. I suspect it's a very minority interest. Most people will either shrug and comply or indeed actively welcome vaccine passports imo.
Yes, agreed. See the reaction to lockdown. Most people either agreed with it or wanted more SEVERE lockdown, not less.
Vaccine passports will enable something like "normal" life to resume quicker than it would otherwise. This will be the case for a year or two, then we can get rid of them. Like ID cards in WW2
Fervent opposition to Vaxports will be a niche interest, comprising less than 10% of the country. Maybe less than 5%. Like anti-vaxxery. I cannot see any major party taking up the cause
Last poll is about 30 odd percent opposed. If they impose vaxports my money will be staying in my pocket not being spent in venues I wont visit because they have to vaxport.
Good luck with those businesses getting back on their feet if that 30% do the same thing. That also assumes that the 30% objecting aren't the same 30% that was the number of people visiting bars and restaurants in the first place
Link?
I'd be surprised if this "opposition" to vaxports is any firmer than Somerset snow in April
It was posted a couple of days ago on pb, didnt note the link sure you can google it
I'm strongly opposed to vaccine passports. For a number of reasons, including i don't understand the scientific case for them in a world when most Britons are vaccinated. If the fear is of vaccine resistant variants - well vaccines don't help in that scenario anyway. I wonder how much of the current talk/proposals is actually being driven by the scientists, as opposed to the Civil Service taking over and convincing ministers.
But if i have to show one to go into a pub to have a drink with my friends i will still do it.
I won't. I don't bow to government dictat I will just buy a bottle and have some friends over which will probably be more fun than a pub anyway
Unionists bricking it that their foolproof system is not as good as they thought, poor diddums.
I must admit, I don't see how what Salmond is doing is unfair. I was surprised at Sturgeon's statement implying that it was - perhaps I'm missing something. The way for the Union to flourish is for people to vote for it, not by gaming the electoral system against separatism.
Our World In Data has added a graph for the share of people with at least one dose. We're not far behind the epidemiological position of Israel.
Also we are past the point that Israel lifted lockdown, which was on 4 February from memory.
I stand by my prediction that the next few months will see immense pressure to speed up reopening. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few letters to Sir Graham publicly renouncing confidence unless lockdown is lifted sooner.
If the Govt. are stupid enough to even think about introducing vaxports for domestic use, the backbenches will rightly go crazy.
You've been saying that for most of lockdown, no one has gone public in that time.
If you think Steve Baker is going to allow Vaxports to happen to appease a few fearties who don't understand basic concepts of epidemiology, I have a bridge to sell you.
The problem is Labour. The numbers aren't there on the Tory benches to get this through but Keith is a complete chump who will blindly vote in favour of whatever Boris and the health bods controlling his puppet strings come up with.
Indeed. I am seriously impressed with the Libs over this. It will encourage about another 25 Tory backbenchers to rebel, I suspect.
But as you say the problem is Labour. Least useful opposition I can remember.
And of course as has been said public opinion will be in favour
For fuck's sake. If I have to wear a face mask for a leusure activity, I'm not going to do it. I'll wear one to go to a shop - because I need stuff - but anything I can get away without purchasing, I will.
Don't worry you won't need a mask if the ECB have access to a database showing that you're full vaccinated.
I don’t want the imbeciles who thought the Hundred a good idea to have access to anything, thanks.
They’re almost as useless as the DfE.
I'm somebody who is a member of two counties I'm so opposed to franchise cricket but I am coming round to the idea that is a necessary evil, to combat the power of India.
Franchise cricket is one thing.
Why the One Hundred though? It's ridiculous, just go for a T20.
They said it was to make sure it could fit in a three hour broadcasting slot.
But there were considerably better ways of doing that, starting with making the players play more quickly rather than resetting the field every ball.
But there has always been more than a suspicion the real reason for the Hundred is to get rid of those counties that don’t host Tests.
Good night.
I think it’s also partly to make a point of difference from T20.
If they wanted to distinguish themselves from other tournaments, they could have said two women, whose runs scored count double and boundaries conceded are halved, have to play in each side
Well that would just be ridiculous, and dangerous. The Hundred is a gimmick but until it’s been tested on the market (I think it will be very popular) it shouldn’t be dismissed by the pipe and slippers brigade on PB.
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
Do you have an Oyster card?
Of course, they still didn't know I was going to the pub and even that information requires a warrant becuase Oyster is a private company and its data isn't held by the state.
I'm surprised that you're so willing to throw away your hard won judicial protections and due process under the guise of "saving the NHS" after that's already been achieved.
Vaccine passports for international travel, sure. A non-biometric physical card for domestic use that has a six month or year time limit, sure. An app that requires check-ins and entry scans at all venues? Get tae fuck.
Nobody here AFAIK is supporting check ins and entry scans at all venues.
Leon is Nick Palmer is Tse is
I'm not.
Well, that was the impression I'd got. How would you see it working?
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
Do you have an Oyster card?
Of course, they still didn't know I was going to the pub and even that information requires a warrant becuase Oyster is a private company and its data isn't held by the state.
I'm surprised that you're so willing to throw away your hard won judicial protections and due process under the guise of "saving the NHS" after that's already been achieved.
Vaccine passports for international travel, sure. A non-biometric physical card for domestic use that has a six month or year time limit, sure. An app that requires check-ins and entry scans at all venues? Get tae fuck.
Nobody here AFAIK is supporting check ins and entry scans at all venues.
Leon is Nick Palmer is Tse is
I'm not.
Well, that was the impression I'd got. How would you see it working?
Glad I wasn't the only one but fair play TSE has made a definitive statement he is against them
Vaccine passports is the sort of issue only of interest to eccentric anoraks - the sort of people who actively want to be offended about something.
I would like to see the precise question re this 30% opposition.
I too would expect serious opposition to be under 5%.
It's just like the 40 Con MPs who have consistently been way off public opinion - because they are completely out of touch with the real world.
Most people care about practical things - not some definition of freedom which is debated by anoraks in University Common Rooms.
Not being able to go to a pub because I haven't got the right papers is not a niche interest. It is a fundamental restriction on civil liberties. And what is worse, it isn't scientifically necessary.
The problem isn't the certificate, it's that the government are doing it with a tracking app and database. It's a police state measure.
There'll also be a paper option in the article I read over the weekend.
You'd be idiotic to use the app in that case.
Idiotic in what sense?
I know I am of no interest whatsoever to this or any future democratic government. I pay my taxes and obey the laws. The thought they would put any effort into tracking me is ludicrous. In any event, if they were that interested they can already track my car through number plate recognition and get my mobile phone records.
That's the most naïve view I've seen here in a while. The whole nothing to fear argument is hugely discredited and police states are founded on the principle.
Not allowing a vaccine passport isn't going to prevent a future totalitarian government, any more than having a vaccine passport is going to lead to one.
We need to concentrate on electing MPs and governments who believe in freedom, fairness of opportunity, and the democratic process. We might start by kicking out one that feels it's fine for lots of contracts to go to their mates and schoolchums without due process.
The issue is that the government is proposing a mass tracking system under the guise or a vaccine passport. It doesn't need to. It is using this opportunity to normalise the behaviour of checking into venues and ensuring the state knows where you are at all times. As I said, you may be comfortable with that, I'm not.
Do you have an Oyster card?
Of course, they still didn't know I was going to the pub and even that information requires a warrant becuase Oyster is a private company and its data isn't held by the state.
I'm surprised that you're so willing to throw away your hard won judicial protections and due process under the guise of "saving the NHS" after that's already been achieved.
Vaccine passports for international travel, sure. A non-biometric physical card for domestic use that has a six month or year time limit, sure. An app that requires check-ins and entry scans at all venues? Get tae fuck.
Nobody here AFAIK is supporting check ins and entry scans at all venues.
Leon is Nick Palmer is Tse is
I'm not.
Then my apologies for misunderstanding
He's arguing that it will happen whether we like it or not. Because it will be (at least at first) popular. And opinion is easily manipulated by a Government wanting to bring it in.
"Civil liberties" arguments are easily dismissed when you market them as a measure to increase the freedom to do things.
Comments
So long as it's their choice not a requirement.
A few thoughts on polls - CON+LAB 74% on YouGov but 80% on Redfield & Wilton.
Elsewhere, more awful polling for the Union in Germany - 26% with both INSA and GMS yesterday. Greens steady on 21% - SPD 17%, AfD and FDP both at 11% and Linke on 8%.
Since the last Bundestag election in 2017, the changes are Union -7%, SPD -2.5%, AfD -1.5%, FDP +0.3%, Linke -1% and Greens +12%.
Greens, SPD and FDP very close to a majority on these numbers (49%) while CDU/CSU/Green is on 47%.
The fragmentation of German politics from an ostensibly two-party to a five-party system has been remarkable.
Meanwhile, we have the Bulgarian election on Sunday.
The latest Rego poll puts the Socialists on 28% (+2) and the governing GERB on 25.5% (-1.5%). In third, we have ITN which as we know is the populist party founded by Stanislav Trifonov which has been strongly supportive of the various protests against the GERB government led by the colourful Boyko Borisov who was once Todor Zhivkov's bodyguard.
The centrist DPS are on 9% with ISMV on 7% - the latter are pro-EU and anti-corruption (apparently they are connected to Volt who won seats in the recent Dutch election and are a pan-European movement) and Democratic Bulgaria on 5%.
Personally i can't wear a mask and my glasses at the same time (they just steam up). So, although my eyesight isn't that bad, wearing a mask at a spectator event like cricket is completely out.
Also, finally, under the "official" road map, isn't 21st June supposed to be the date at which ALL restrictions (including social distancing etc) are lifted? Whether that is actually sensible or not, i don't know, but given that is the road map, why are things like sporting events bending over backwards to not take the roadmap at it's word?
Brexit/Reform Party have no traction because there is no big issue to peel off pissed off voters from Johnson. Brexit done etc.
But covid vaccine app/passport will instantly create a new issue. Tice already tweeting recent clips of Gove saying it wont happen even though rumours are that it will now.
Why the One Hundred though? It's ridiculous, just go for a T20.
https://twitter.com/AndrewBowie_MP/status/1376974216172560386
The EU has annoyed a bunch of pharma companies (which will work in the UK's interests). But it is still an enormous economic bloc.
EU production of CV19 vaccines is growing, and will continue to grow.
Camden lock was rammed this evening, likewise Waterlow Park. Gorgeous weather, impromptu bands, picnics, wine evenings, queues for excellent Indonesian laksas, the works.
It was noisy and chaotic and it was brilliant. Young people are desperate to get out, to see and be seen, to socialise, flirt, party, make love - it's what they are meant to do, and they have been repressed for a year, and prevented from doing it. All power to them - they have, in many ways, sacrificed the most.
Animal spirits are returning.
Until recently I thought Covid would be a major negative for big cities. Now I wonder. It is possible big cities will become MORE popular - especially with the young - as people clamour for the urban buzz and a social life, once again.
Put it another way. After a year of sitting in the garden (at best) who wants to carry on sitting in the garden? Who wants to go for ANOTHER lonely walk in a field?
People will want clubs, bars, theatres, galleries, restaurants. They will want CITIES
But there were considerably better ways of doing that, starting with making the players play more quickly rather than resetting the field every ball.
But there has always been more than a suspicion the real reason for the Hundred is to get rid of those counties that don’t host Tests.
Good night.
Do the IPL struggle to get viewers because a T20 is deemed too long?
Ridiculous!
However in 2011 I moved to Manchester and have worked there since 2011 so in 2012 I went to a few t20 matches at Old Trafford (with friends) and I noticed it was cheaper to be a member but the biggest advantage to being a Lancs member is the priority window for England matches at Old Trafford.
Plus I met someone special at Old Trafford (well The Point and the Hilton) so I can't cancel my membership or I'll get into trouble.
Only if Starmer whips his troops to support it. Pretty sure there are enough believers in a free country on the tory backbenchers to stop it otherwise.
Over to you Starmer?
I don't remotely think its a case of "customer confidence". It's simply that the Government will impose conditions unless you opt in. Young people don't care. Older people are vaccinated and feel safe. Those that might be reluctant will be vastly dwarfed by those who are keen. And enforcement will come with a major cost to business, so very few will go for it voluntarily.
https://twitter.com/HarunMaruf/status/1376958186339569669
What the hell are they thinking?
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/545445-desantis-vows-to-take-executive-action-against-vaccine-passports
"DeSantis said he believes people “have certain freedoms and individual liberties” to decide whether to get the vaccine and conveyed concerns about privacy if such a program was launched.
“You’re going to do this and what, give all this information to some big corporation?” the governor said. “You want the fox to guard the hen house? I mean give me a break.”
Vaccine passports will enable something like "normal" life to resume quicker than it would otherwise. This will be the case for a year or two, then we can get rid of them. Like ID cards in WW2
Fervent opposition to Vaxports will be a niche interest, comprising less than 10% of the country. Maybe less than 5%. Like anti-vaxxery. I cannot see any major party taking up the cause
The Government can simply impose limits on crowd numbers (which I believe they intend to do anyway) for the interim, and then chuck all the rules in the dustbin when the jabs are done. If the entire adult population, other than a quite modest number of anti-vaxxers, having been inoculated isn't sufficient condition for us to go back to normal - which includes not having a plod or some tinpot official demanding "papers please" twenty times a day - then we're never going back to normal ever, are we? That's not acceptable - or it shouldn't be, anyway.
Seriously, PB is a wildly skewed demographic when it comes to libertarian issues, most people do not think like us (I count myself still as a moderate libertarian)
https://twitter.com/DrHannahGraham/status/1376977183072256001?s=20
If the Govt. are stupid enough to even think about introducing vaxports for domestic use, the backbenches will rightly go crazy.
Good luck with those businesses getting back on their feet if that 30% do the same thing. That also assumes that the 30% objecting aren't the same 30% that was the number of people visiting bars and restaurants in the first place
I'm surprised that you're so willing to throw away your hard won judicial protections and due process under the guise of "saving the NHS" after that's already been achieved.
Vaccine passports for international travel, sure. A non-biometric physical card for domestic use that has a six month or year time limit, sure. An app that requires check-ins and entry scans at all venues? Get tae fuck.
I'd be surprised if this "opposition" to vaxports is any firmer than Somerset snow in April
I've noticed mask wearing has really dropped this week. I'd say down to 60% on trains around here now. Given there is almost no community spread, I'm not surprised.
Latvia 3
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56584308
Which sounded odd. The "moderate" bit that is!
The issue is that they won't be which makes them easy to introduce. Especially from a Government that can (arbitrarily if it wishes) set the rules restricting what activity can be carried out without them.
People think, "well if a vaccine passport is necessary to do X, then i will accept a vaccine passport because i really want to do X".
What they don't realise is that a vaccine passport is only necessary because the Government decrees it so.
The idea that biz is going to turn away patrons for not using the correct app (that a good 25% of people won't be able to manage anyway) is farcical....
Absolutely agree
https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1376987656941342725?s=19
If you believe that I have a brace of bridges to sell you.
If we go down the route of a health status app for entry to public places we will never be free of it.
Wake up people!
As Matt Singh has pointed out during the pandemic one of the many consistent things during pandemic polling is this
https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1374386230989709318
https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1374386762965913609
The hospitality industry is a nice to have but not a necessity
Just in case the herd immunity level is 98%?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9401561/Where-vaccine-passports-used-YouGov-poll-reveals-Britons-want-IDs-place-gyms.html
But as you say the problem is Labour. Least useful opposition I can remember.
REBELLION, on Netflix
A retelling of the Irish Rebellion of Easter 2016 (so, timely)
It passed me by when it came out (mid Golden Age, so we were drowned in fine TV drama) but it is really well done: good script, great acting, superbly rich scenography, you are there with the rebels and RIC as it unfolds.
It had oddly mixed reviews, especially in America and Ireland, despite its obvious quality. I wonder if this is because it is so nuanced: it does not play to Irish hero/British villain stereotypes (tho it has sympathies for the rebels) the mixed emotions and motives of many are excellently portrayed, and it is not afraid of making the Irish look murderous (also, the Brits).
8/10
But if i have to show one to go into a pub to have a drink with my friends i will still do it.
However with my party activist hat on I am incensed. Frankly it makes me sick that the party which I work so hard for and donate significant amounts of money and time to can even contemplate such illiberal policies.
https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1376987656941342725?s=19
I would like to see the precise question re this 30% opposition.
I too would expect serious opposition to be under 5%.
It's just like the 40 Con MPs who have consistently been way off public opinion - because they are completely out of touch with the real world.
Most people care about practical things - not some theoretical definition of "freedom" which is debated by anoraks in University Common Rooms.
"Civil liberties" arguments are easily dismissed when you market them as a measure to increase the freedom to do things.