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What makes an effective protest – politicalbetting.com

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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,921
    Fenman said:

    The NRA, after the latest mass shooting is quoting the second amendment, that enshrines the right to bear arms in order to ensure a well ordered militia. Right on NRA. So in order to have a gun the American government should call all gun owners up each year, for say two weeks, in other words their holidays, to serve in a well ordered militia. Their two weeks could have leisure element, for example by offering the opportunity to them to exercise their rights in, say, Afghanistan, Iraq or Yemen.

    https://twitter.com/PaulaChertok/status/1374419730501529606
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,271
    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    A grinning protester photographed giving a two-fingered salute while sprawled across the front of a torched police van at the height of the Bristol anarchy is the son of a senior civil servant working for the courts service, MailOnline can reveal.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9394319/Grinning-Bristol-protester-son-Courts-Service-civil-servant.html

    Only thing shocking is he doesn't have a posher first name...
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    A grinning protester photographed giving a two-fingered salute while sprawled across the front of a torched police van at the height of the Bristol anarchy is the son of a senior civil servant working for the courts service, MailOnline can reveal.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9394319/Grinning-Bristol-protester-son-Courts-Service-civil-servant.html

    Only thing shocking is he doesn't have a posher first name...

    They guy's 27 - for some reason these 'child of a respectable person' rioter stories just don't seem as poignant unless they are some teenaged or university spod.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!

    Reggie Perrin follows
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,850


    My primary issue with it that it looks identical to what the unlocking roadmap would have looked like had we got to this point without vaccines. So the only thing the vaccines are doing is supposedly making it "irreversible", and such a thing cannot possibly be guaranteed without a crystal ball. And as others have said watch the scientists try to reverse that as we get towards the autumn anyway.

    At some point you have to say if the vaccines really are as good as we think they are that once you've vaccinated a certain proportion of people (plus 3 weeks for immunity to build) that you can unlock pretty much overnight, regardless of pretty much anything else.

    I don't know what that proportion is for sure but we cannot be far away from it in this country if we have over half the adult population jabbed once already.

    But in roadmap terms, we're still a long way from doing much meaningful unlocking.

    I think it very likely we will need booster vaccinations this autumn though I suspect the vaccines themselves will be improving rapidly so perhaps a high level of immediate immunity lasting a full year could be on offer by the autumn.

    There is a risk, IF the level of immunity from a second vaccination wears off more quickly than is imagined, we could rise a new push of cases but I think this improbable and the Government has secured enough vaccines for a second nationwide programme if and when required.

    We don't know how long high levels of efficacy will persist from a second vaccination - after all, we routinely vaccinate 15 million people every year against the flu so it seems reasonable we'll need to do something similar against Covid.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,201
    kle4 said:

    Quite the defence here.

    A key member of the legal team that sought to steal the 2020 election for Donald Trump is defending herself against a billion-dollar defamation lawsuit by arguing that “no reasonable person” could have mistaken her wild claims about election fraud last November as statements of fact.

    In a motion to dismiss a complaint by the large US-based voting machine company Dominion, lawyers for Sidney Powell argued that elaborate conspiracies she laid out on television and radio last November while simultaneously suing to overturn election results in four states constituted legally protected first amendment speech.

    “No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,” argued lawyers for Powell, a former federal prosecutor from Texas who caught Trump’s attention through her involvement in the defense of his former national security adviser Michael Flynn.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/23/sidney-powell-trump-election-fraud-claims?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    You what? Making wild, false statements at the same time as promoting your or others' legal actions designed to achieve the same aim as those wild, false statements, and no one would conclude you actually meant it?

    From what little I know it is a very high bar to meet to prove defamation, but I hope to gods this lady crosses that bar.
    The Skwawkbox tried this defence as well, on the basis everyone knew that its author was a mad liar and Corbynite shill who will print any old rubbish if it showed his beloved Jez favourably.

    The judge was not totally impressed by this argument, although in a model of restraint he merely described it as ‘quite incredible.’

    And then awarded the case to the plaintiff...
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,850
    HYUFD said:


    Britain would be permanently blown up if Scotland left

    As I explained to you last evening, the SNP leadership don't really want a second referendum. They'll talk about it, plan for it, claim they want it and will rely on Conservatives like you to ensure they never get it.

    They are the Union's and your biggest ally and you don't realise it.
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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,978
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scots Tories still don’t have any friends.

    The problem is that Scottish Labour still like to think they are fighting the Tories. Its truly bizarre displacement activity. It doesn't matter how many times the SNP smash them to the 4 winds, take all their seats, take all their Councils, replace all their chums and placemen in the broader state, they still want to go on about fighting the Tories.

    I have had leaflets in Dundee West, even at the last election, saying vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP majority in that seat is now over 12k. Labour have been annihilated and yet will still not engage with their true foe. Abstaining today when SKS has already called for Sturgeon to go is simply typical. Its pathological and, frankly, insane.
    Maybe Labour have realised that they’re not going to overtake the SNP in the short term, and that their immediate goal should be to aim for second place and to become the official opposition. Or it could be that they realise that the Tories under Davidson and DRoss are worse than the SNP.
    If we're really lucky then the SNP will achieve their primary objective and these arguments can be rendered moot. You get your independence and the shitty Labour Party gets its Zimmer frame kicked away on both sides of the border.

    They blew up Britain and they inflicted Corbyn on us. They deserve to burn.
    Unfortunately all the dross from Labour are now in the SNP and they have made it even worse than labour was, going to be a poor 5 years if the current mob get a big majority, current leadership have corrupted the party totally. They don't want independence, they want to keep milking the system they have, all the gravy and Westminster to blame.
    Sadly true, Malc 😢
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    kle4 said:

    A grinning protester photographed giving a two-fingered salute while sprawled across the front of a torched police van at the height of the Bristol anarchy is the son of a senior civil servant working for the courts service, MailOnline can reveal.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9394319/Grinning-Bristol-protester-son-Courts-Service-civil-servant.html

    Only thing shocking is he doesn't have a posher first name...

    They guy's 27 - for some reason these 'child of a respectable person' rioter stories just don't seem as poignant unless they are some teenaged or university spod.
    One of my good friends at uni, her sister was one of the anti-capitalist twats who went round smashing shit it up every other week in the late 90s / 2000s...spod was bizarrely very happy for her lifestyle to bankrolled by daddy, including buying a house for cash in one of the wealthiest London commuter towns.

    Daddy of course could only afford all of this because he was very high up with a well know global corporation.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,167
    Leon said:

    The proposed UK travel ban is a bit iffy. It exempts people with second homes which they need to visit for the purposes of rent, sale and maintenance (*waves at Stanley Johnson*)

    It ALSO exempts people who are considering buying property abroad and want to view it. I've been thinking of buying a little something in Portugal or Greece for a while.

    So I shall bring forward my vague plans and book a viewing in June and bingo, I'm off to the Med.

    Surely anyone could do this?

    I would hope fee paying membership of the Conservative Party was the minimum requirement for Western Europe. Then, the further the destination, the bigger the donation.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    The proposed UK travel ban is a bit iffy. It exempts people with second homes which they need to visit for the purposes of rent, sale and maintenance (*waves at Stanley Johnson*)

    It ALSO exempts people who are considering buying property abroad and want to view it. I've been thinking of buying a little something in Portugal or Greece for a while.

    So I shall bring forward my vague plans and book a viewing in June and bingo, I'm off to the Med.

    Surely anyone could do this?

    That's idiotic...its even worse than the vague "for work"...all the Instagram influencer idiots will be travelling the world claiming they are on the job... although to be fair, quite a lot of them probably were, sex work is work after all.

    I believe in Australia, you have to write to the government for a travel permit and if you leave and they find out your essential reason wasn't really that essential after all, very difficult to get another hall pass.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,167
    IanB2 said:

    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!

    Reggie Perrin follows
    The BBC, time travel back to the 1970s and 80s and just for the price of a TV licence. Magic!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,266

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scots Tories still don’t have any friends.

    The problem is that Scottish Labour still like to think they are fighting the Tories. Its truly bizarre displacement activity. It doesn't matter how many times the SNP smash them to the 4 winds, take all their seats, take all their Councils, replace all their chums and placemen in the broader state, they still want to go on about fighting the Tories.

    I have had leaflets in Dundee West, even at the last election, saying vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP majority in that seat is now over 12k. Labour have been annihilated and yet will still not engage with their true foe. Abstaining today when SKS has already called for Sturgeon to go is simply typical. Its pathological and, frankly, insane.
    If Labour had done as Starmer asked the vote today would have been 58 v 65
    Sure, with her little green helpers and the fanatical loyalty of the SNP Sturgeon was never in any danger. But at least Labour would have engaged with the enemy that they want to take seats off in May. I struggle to think of a Tory seat in Scotland that Labour could realistically target. Every target is held by the SNP yet they still won't engage. Bizarre.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2021
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    kle4 said:

    A grinning protester photographed giving a two-fingered salute while sprawled across the front of a torched police van at the height of the Bristol anarchy is the son of a senior civil servant working for the courts service, MailOnline can reveal.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9394319/Grinning-Bristol-protester-son-Courts-Service-civil-servant.html

    Only thing shocking is he doesn't have a posher first name...

    They guy's 27 - for some reason these 'child of a respectable person' rioter stories just don't seem as poignant unless they are some teenaged or university spod.
    One of my good friends at uni, her sister was one of the anti-capitalist twats who went round smashing shit it up every other week in the late 90s / 2000s...spod was bizarrely very happy for her lifestyle to bankrolled by daddy, including buying a house for cash in one of the wealthiest London commuter towns.

    Daddy of course could only afford all of this because he was very high up with a well know global corporation.
    Sounds like the brother of someone I knew at university.

    He stopped smashing things up when he smashed up the wrong place and the owner of the establishment gave the rioters the hiding of their lives.

    I think he's on DLA whatever it is these days living in a council house, surrounded by the people he said he was protesting for. He hates it.
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,768

    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!

    If only they had brought in the Euro Pass...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scots Tories still don’t have any friends.

    The problem is that Scottish Labour still like to think they are fighting the Tories. Its truly bizarre displacement activity. It doesn't matter how many times the SNP smash them to the 4 winds, take all their seats, take all their Councils, replace all their chums and placemen in the broader state, they still want to go on about fighting the Tories.

    I have had leaflets in Dundee West, even at the last election, saying vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP majority in that seat is now over 12k. Labour have been annihilated and yet will still not engage with their true foe. Abstaining today when SKS has already called for Sturgeon to go is simply typical. Its pathological and, frankly, insane.
    If Labour had done as Starmer asked the vote today would have been 58 v 65
    Sure, with her little green helpers and the fanatical loyalty of the SNP Sturgeon was never in any danger. But at least Labour would have engaged with the enemy that they want to take seats off in May. I struggle to think of a Tory seat in Scotland that Labour could realistically target. Every target is held by the SNP yet they still won't engage. Bizarre.
    Edlnburgh Central, which Labour needs a 4% swing to gain and which is currently Ruth Davidson's seat, is an easier SLab target than any SNP constituency seat, any gains SLab makes from the SNP are likely to mainly come on the list
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957
    CatMan said:

    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!

    If only they had brought in the Euro Pass...
    Appalled.
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    Did you parents not have a chat to you about the birds and the bees?
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,167
    edited March 2021
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scots Tories still don’t have any friends.

    The problem is that Scottish Labour still like to think they are fighting the Tories. Its truly bizarre displacement activity. It doesn't matter how many times the SNP smash them to the 4 winds, take all their seats, take all their Councils, replace all their chums and placemen in the broader state, they still want to go on about fighting the Tories.

    I have had leaflets in Dundee West, even at the last election, saying vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP majority in that seat is now over 12k. Labour have been annihilated and yet will still not engage with their true foe. Abstaining today when SKS has already called for Sturgeon to go is simply typical. Its pathological and, frankly, insane.
    Maybe Labour have realised that they’re not going to overtake the SNP in the short term, and that their immediate goal should be to aim for second place and to become the official opposition. Or it could be that they realise that the Tories under Davidson and DRoss are worse than the SNP.
    If we're really lucky then the SNP will achieve their primary objective and these arguments can be rendered moot. You get your independence and the shitty Labour Party gets its Zimmer frame kicked away on both sides of the border.

    They blew up Britain and they inflicted Corbyn on us. They deserve to burn.
    Unfortunately all the dross from Labour are now in the SNP and they have made it even worse than labour was, going to be a poor 5 years if the current mob get a big majority, current leadership have corrupted the party totally. They don't want independence, they want to keep milking the system they have, all the gravy and Westminster to blame.
    Just scratch the surface and the SCon beneath is revealed. Better to be done with it and vote for someone called D.Ross!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    "Prietty Patells new bill criminallising trespass is an attack on Traveller, Gypsy, Squatter and Homeless communities. The gov think being nomadick and free living makes your a crimainl. What do you think?"

    Looking past the spelling errors, which I can forgive, it seems a bit densely packed for a protest sign. I'd have gone with 'Being free thinking is not a crime...yet'.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    kle4 said:

    "Prietty Patells new bill criminallising trespass is an attack on Traveller, Gypsy, Squatter and Homeless communities. The gov think being nomadick and free living makes your a crimainl. What do you think?"

    Looking past the spelling errors, which I can forgive, it seems a bit densely packed for a protest sign. I'd have gone with 'Being free thinking is not a crime...yet'.
    Not quite as easy a chant as what do we want....when do we want it...
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    Judging by Chris Whitty's comments today. all we can expect from today's press conference is another giant dollop of gloom.

    I hope you are bracing yourselves.

    - "England's chief medical officer Prof Chris Whitty says the rates of people falling ill with coronavirus is continuing to fall, and although it is "going down more slowly" this was expected, as children return to school.

    He says the number of people in hospital with coronavirus has come down "rapidly".

    Deaths registered after 28 days of a positive coronavirus test result have started to fall "much more rapidly", he adds."

    - "New surges will meet a wall of vaccinated people".

    Your definition of "gloom" and mine do seem to vary.


    No here you are right Andy. Hands up. It was much more upbeat that I was expecting. They even talked about the enormous challenges ahead in terms of mental health issues and cancer backlogs.

    Trouble is, you could argue that their measures in part, exacerbated those problems. I think they even sort of acknowledged that.

    I think that much of the criticism that comes your way on this site comes from the fact that everyone knows these measures have such effects. Its the balancing of them against the effect of not locking down that is the problem. You will doubtless point to Florida or Sweden but views differe.

    There was a distinct "light at the end of the tunnel" feeling about tonight's press conference I thought.
    I just hope that we are nearly there and don't start drifting backwards on the unlocking plan. The fact that we're now more than a fortnight on from the schools reopening and there hasn't been a disaster - the case rate per 100k per week is now marginally lower than it was on March 8th - gives cause for a degree of optimism.
    What difference will a couple of weeks or a month make. Key is to make sure it is totally safe and not have to go through it again.
    I hear you; however, this plan is already very cautious. The schools in England were all let back at once (and I'll admit that I thought that a bad idea, and would rather they had left the secondaries until after Easter,) but it's effectively done no harm at all. Meanwhile, the bulk of JCVI Phase One is already complete, most of the rest will be done in another two or three weeks, and the death rate is dropping not so much like a stone as like a lead anvil. Meanwhile, lockdown continues to cause a lot of cumulative damage.

    Therefore, whilst I understand the rationale behind all these five week gaps, I think the Government is going to need a very convincing explanation indeed for holding off any longer than that from hereon in. I can see why they might take fright at letting millions jet off on sunshine holidays, but you wonder where else a tsunami wave of cases that is going to overwhelm the NHS - which, we must try to remind ourselves, is meant to have been the sole rationale for lockdowns in the first place - is going to come from? The April 12th step consists, broadly speaking, of shops other than supermarkets, sitting at a table with a drink outdoors, and hyper-sanitised hair salons with the staff in gloves, masks and face shields; by the time we get to the actual big unlock on May 17th, almost everyone in cohorts 1-4 will have had their second jab, the over 45s will probably have had their first, and cases, hospitalisations and deaths should be pretty well on the floor.

    We should be careful coming out of this present spell of imprisonment, for sure, but we mustn't be so frightened that we keep ourselves needlessly sealed away for the rest of the year. There will never come a point at which the virus is eradicated, and consequently there'll always be someone saying that it's too soon to throw open the jailhouse doors. Once it ceases to be sensible to listen to that someone then we should start ignoring them.
    Yes agree, I will be very cautious for sure given my wife has been shielding. I reckon it will be a fair spell till we are anywhere near what new normal will be.
    I do fancy a pint in a pub but it will need to be an outside one so can only hope for some decent weather.
    I think we can all agree on the need for some decent weather. A repeat of last Spring would be just what the doctor ordered, but I don't think we're going to get it. About the best that can be said of the long range forecasts around here is that at least they appear to be predominantly dry. Over on the western side of the island I'm not so sure you'll be even that lucky. Best case scenario for that first pub visit, warm coat; worst case scenario, warm coat and brolly I fear...
    Next week in London looks quite warm and sunny - up to 18C, plenty of sunshine


    That will feel like real Beer Garden weather. Bring it on. The parks will be heaving. I went up Primrose Hill just now - a lovely clear spring evening, but chilly - and it was rammed.

    When it gets warm?

    There appears to be a three day window round the end of the month up here (and we're not that far north of London) where it's meant to be reasonably warm. Before and after, 10, 11, 12 degrees.

    But yes, so long as it doesn't rain there'll be more and more people outside. Because we're all sick and tired of the lockdown, and the lower the case rate and the death rate both go, the fewer people will be left who are still too frightened to go outdoors.

    Once the pubs open back up then, unless this coincides with howling gales and torrential downpours, they should do a brisk trade.
    I went to Asda today and it was heaving with few trollies available and near full car park.

    Same with B & Q now their garden centre is open

    Lots of vaccinated pensioners everywhere but also just lots of people acting as if covid is over
    People have had enough.

    On the broader topic of things Welsh - and apologies, because this is old news and has presumably already been done to death on PB - I just spotted the latest Welsh Barometer that came out yesterday. Now, I understand that Senedd polling is all about who gets to be Labour's junior partner, and is therefore almost as boring and monotonous a story as that for Holyrood, but I'm surprised just how weak Labour are becoming - especially since AIUI Welsh Labour has basically turned itself into a nationalist party and started selecting pro-independence candidates. Will it last?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,114
    MattW said:

    Credit to whoever it was on PB who read the whole thing, and to Jon Worth for pulling the plug on a questionable sounding story. Last thing we all need at the moment is more bushfires.

    https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/1374444408020463629

    Jon Worth is an absolute dick. Bad case of Strasbourg Syndrome. The other day he was exulting in the fact that the EU could steal all our vaccines AND impose No Deal Brexit, killing 8 million Brits and destroying what remains of our pathetic economy. Go Brussels!
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,859
    Bodes well for LE if not an outlier.

    I urge caution from SKS fans.

    My comrades who have been phone canvassing not reporting much of a swing from 2017 and if anything a worsening position in March calls

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    2h
    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 39% (-7)
    LAB: 37% (+8)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)

    via
    @BMGResearch
    , 16 - 19 Mar
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    alex_ said:

    This may be dodgy reporting, but L'Express is saying there is a stockpile of 30 million AZ doses in Italy.

    https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/1374424828086644743

    All in an Italian police station?
    In Sicily?
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,167

    Bodes well for LE if not an outlier.

    I urge caution from SKS fans.

    My comrades who have been phone canvassing not reporting much of a swing from 2017 and if anything a worsening position in March calls

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    2h
    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 39% (-7)
    LAB: 37% (+8)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)

    via
    @BMGResearch
    , 16 - 19 Mar

    That poll is about right for Labour but four or five points shy for the Tories.

    Don't forget Rishi's "free" money will be entering voter's bank accounts a week or two before the LEs. So for a while the double digit lead may well return.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scots Tories still don’t have any friends.

    The problem is that Scottish Labour still like to think they are fighting the Tories. Its truly bizarre displacement activity. It doesn't matter how many times the SNP smash them to the 4 winds, take all their seats, take all their Councils, replace all their chums and placemen in the broader state, they still want to go on about fighting the Tories.

    I have had leaflets in Dundee West, even at the last election, saying vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP majority in that seat is now over 12k. Labour have been annihilated and yet will still not engage with their true foe. Abstaining today when SKS has already called for Sturgeon to go is simply typical. Its pathological and, frankly, insane.
    Maybe Labour have realised that they’re not going to overtake the SNP in the short term, and that their immediate goal should be to aim for second place and to become the official opposition. Or it could be that they realise that the Tories under Davidson and DRoss are worse than the SNP.
    If we're really lucky then the SNP will achieve their primary objective and these arguments can be rendered moot. You get your independence and the shitty Labour Party gets its Zimmer frame kicked away on both sides of the border.

    They blew up Britain and they inflicted Corbyn on us. They deserve to burn.
    Britain would be permanently blown up if Scotland left
    Too late. Being British is a niche interest largely for Tories, ethnic minorities and very old people nowadays.

    Wait and see what comes out of the census results when they're published. The country is falling apart.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,114

    A grinning protester photographed giving a two-fingered salute while sprawled across the front of a torched police van at the height of the Bristol anarchy is the son of a senior civil servant working for the courts service, MailOnline can reveal.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9394319/Grinning-Bristol-protester-son-Courts-Service-civil-servant.html

    Only thing shocking is he doesn't have a posher first name...

    5 years in prison should wise him up, Do it. Do it like the Plasma Riots.
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!

    If only they had brought in the Euro Pass...
    Appalled.
    Yes Minister is of course fiction.

    No politician is ever as brave as Hacker, and we can only wish for civil servants as competent as Sir Humphrey.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,114
    kinabalu said:

    CatMan said:

    Matt Hancock on BBC 1 now has a weird modern art sort of picture of The Queen on his office wall

    Yes I've noticed that. He's going for a kind of edgy patriotism.
    It works, well. Apparently he was very keen to take the portrait with him when he transferred department. I can see why
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,271
    kle4 said:

    "Prietty Patells new bill criminallising trespass is an attack on Traveller, Gypsy, Squatter and Homeless communities. The gov think being nomadick and free living makes your a crimainl. What do you think?"

    Looking past the spelling errors, which I can forgive, it seems a bit densely packed for a protest sign. I'd have gone with 'Being free thinking is not a crime...yet'.
    If she ever resigns, will Cressida become a Nomadick? :lol:
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Just finished reading Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons. With apologies to Malmesbury, there's just something about Banks I cannot get into. He was obviously creative and unconventional, but something in his works just doesn't click for me. It might in part be all the stream of consciousnes pontificating characters do, as despite being a fan of PB stream of consciousness is not my thing.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,925
    Big support for sharia below the Daily Mail line

    https://bit.ly/3vRDfm7
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,177
    kle4 said:

    Just finished reading Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons. With apologies to Malmesbury, there's just something about Banks I cannot get into. He was obviously creative and unconventional, but something in his works just doesn't click for me. It might in part be all the stream of consciousnes pontificating characters do, as despite being a fan of PB stream of consciousness is not my thing.

    Have you tried his non-sci-fi? Loved the crow road when I first read it. Seem to recall it was filmed too.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,271

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scots Tories still don’t have any friends.

    The problem is that Scottish Labour still like to think they are fighting the Tories. Its truly bizarre displacement activity. It doesn't matter how many times the SNP smash them to the 4 winds, take all their seats, take all their Councils, replace all their chums and placemen in the broader state, they still want to go on about fighting the Tories.

    I have had leaflets in Dundee West, even at the last election, saying vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP majority in that seat is now over 12k. Labour have been annihilated and yet will still not engage with their true foe. Abstaining today when SKS has already called for Sturgeon to go is simply typical. Its pathological and, frankly, insane.
    Maybe Labour have realised that they’re not going to overtake the SNP in the short term, and that their immediate goal should be to aim for second place and to become the official opposition. Or it could be that they realise that the Tories under Davidson and DRoss are worse than the SNP.
    If we're really lucky then the SNP will achieve their primary objective and these arguments can be rendered moot. You get your independence and the shitty Labour Party gets its Zimmer frame kicked away on both sides of the border.

    They blew up Britain and they inflicted Corbyn on us. They deserve to burn.
    Britain would be permanently blown up if Scotland left
    Too late. Being British is a niche interest largely for Tories, ethnic minorities and very old people nowadays.

    Wait and see what comes out of the census results when they're published. The country is falling apart.
    Racism! I put down British AND English on my Census!
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    IanB2 said:

    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!

    Reggie Perrin follows
    The BBC, time travel back to the 1970s and 80s and just for the price of a TV licence. Magic!
    Middle aged breakdown is a timeless subject
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited March 2021

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scots Tories still don’t have any friends.

    The problem is that Scottish Labour still like to think they are fighting the Tories. Its truly bizarre displacement activity. It doesn't matter how many times the SNP smash them to the 4 winds, take all their seats, take all their Councils, replace all their chums and placemen in the broader state, they still want to go on about fighting the Tories.

    I have had leaflets in Dundee West, even at the last election, saying vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP majority in that seat is now over 12k. Labour have been annihilated and yet will still not engage with their true foe. Abstaining today when SKS has already called for Sturgeon to go is simply typical. Its pathological and, frankly, insane.
    Maybe Labour have realised that they’re not going to overtake the SNP in the short term, and that their immediate goal should be to aim for second place and to become the official opposition. Or it could be that they realise that the Tories under Davidson and DRoss are worse than the SNP.
    If we're really lucky then the SNP will achieve their primary objective and these arguments can be rendered moot. You get your independence and the shitty Labour Party gets its Zimmer frame kicked away on both sides of the border.

    They blew up Britain and they inflicted Corbyn on us. They deserve to burn.
    Britain would be permanently blown up if Scotland left
    Too late. Being British is a niche interest largely for Tories, ethnic minorities and very old people nowadays.

    Wait and see what comes out of the census results when they're published. The country is falling apart.
    35% of English voters think of themselves as English and British, only 15% think of themselves as English not British

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/02/14/is-it-the-english-question-or-the-british-question-the-three-strands-of-britishness/

    28% of Scots think they are Scottish not British, 29% think they are equally Scottish and British

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/09/07/what-makes-person-scottish

    44% of Welsh voters say they are equally Welsh and British, 21% say they are Welsh not British

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47475486
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,271
    Leon said:

    A grinning protester photographed giving a two-fingered salute while sprawled across the front of a torched police van at the height of the Bristol anarchy is the son of a senior civil servant working for the courts service, MailOnline can reveal.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9394319/Grinning-Bristol-protester-son-Courts-Service-civil-servant.html

    Only thing shocking is he doesn't have a posher first name...

    5 years in prison should wise him up, Do it. Do it like the Plasma Riots.
    EMA = Electrical Merchandise Allowance!
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    Now the dust has settled, it’s clear that the irrepressible Sturgeon has pulled off yet another political win with this inquiry gubbins. Nobody understood it from the outset (and if you’re explaining, you’re losing) but the Tories up there seem to have blundered massively by jumping the gun.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    kle4 said:

    Just finished reading Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons. With apologies to Malmesbury, there's just something about Banks I cannot get into. He was obviously creative and unconventional, but something in his works just doesn't click for me. It might in part be all the stream of consciousnes pontificating characters do, as despite being a fan of PB stream of consciousness is not my thing.

    Have you tried his non-sci-fi? Loved the crow road when I first read it. Seem to recall it was filmed too.
    Not read his non-sci-fi yet. I did think Consider Phlebas was alright, but there's only so many chances I can give an author.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    Fishing said:

    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!

    If only they had brought in the Euro Pass...
    Appalled.
    Yes Minister is of course fiction.

    No politician is ever as brave as Hacker, and we can only wish for civil servants as competent as Sir Humphrey.
    Sir Humphrey made a very shrewd observation in tonight's episode than the UK joined the Common Market precisely to ensure Europe remained disunited and to play the main European nations off against each other, the main British foreign policy objective of the last 500 years
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,526

    Bodes well for LE if not an outlier.

    I urge caution from SKS fans.

    My comrades who have been phone canvassing not reporting much of a swing from 2017 and if anything a worsening position in March calls

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    2h
    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 39% (-7)
    LAB: 37% (+8)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)

    via
    @BMGResearch
    , 16 - 19 Mar

    That poll is about right for Labour but four or five points shy for the Tories.

    Don't forget Rishi's "free" money will be entering voter's bank accounts a week or two before the LEs. So for a while the double digit lead may well return.
    With MoE every recent poll is consistent with the Tories being on 42 (all in the range 39-45).

    Ditto with MoE every poll is consistent with Labour on 35 or 36 (all in the range 33-38)
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Comres last week also had the main parties on 39% - 37% - implying a Hung Parliament similar to 2017. The Redfield & Wilton poll showing a 6% Tory lead would point to a Tory majority of circa 30. Neither poll prima facie appears to confirm the Wales Yougov poll.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    Now the dust has settled, it’s clear that the irrepressible Sturgeon has pulled off yet another political win with this inquiry gubbins. Nobody understood it from the outset (and if you’re explaining, you’re losing) but the Tories up there seem to have blundered massively by jumping the gun.

    They put the confidence vote before either of the inquiries had concluded, desperate to get in first, then found that they were on their own. Tragic tactics.
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,768

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scots Tories still don’t have any friends.

    The problem is that Scottish Labour still like to think they are fighting the Tories. Its truly bizarre displacement activity. It doesn't matter how many times the SNP smash them to the 4 winds, take all their seats, take all their Councils, replace all their chums and placemen in the broader state, they still want to go on about fighting the Tories.

    I have had leaflets in Dundee West, even at the last election, saying vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP majority in that seat is now over 12k. Labour have been annihilated and yet will still not engage with their true foe. Abstaining today when SKS has already called for Sturgeon to go is simply typical. Its pathological and, frankly, insane.
    Maybe Labour have realised that they’re not going to overtake the SNP in the short term, and that their immediate goal should be to aim for second place and to become the official opposition. Or it could be that they realise that the Tories under Davidson and DRoss are worse than the SNP.
    If we're really lucky then the SNP will achieve their primary objective and these arguments can be rendered moot. You get your independence and the shitty Labour Party gets its Zimmer frame kicked away on both sides of the border.

    They blew up Britain and they inflicted Corbyn on us. They deserve to burn.
    Britain would be permanently blown up if Scotland left
    Too late. Being British is a niche interest largely for Tories, ethnic minorities and very old people nowadays.

    Wait and see what comes out of the census results when they're published. The country is falling apart.
    Racism! I put down British AND English on my Census!
    I put English and French, despite my knowledge of French consisting mostly of Duolingo lessons, but I haven't felt British since I was a teenager.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'd like to understand but atm I can't.

    It seems so.
    Your point about the law v guidance balance on mixing being wrong is a good one but other than that I've seen little of substance from you on this.
    3/10. And that's me being generous as you're evidently having a shocker today.
    I have a recommendation for your time off and I'll tell you what it is if you're not careful.
    All ears. A trip on a London bus perchance?
    It was a number 13. My favourite.
    I grew up in the suburbs and those bus lines to exotic locations stick in my mind. The 140 bus route was our link to the world, servicing Heathrow.

    I rather like the 6 route, although I've rarely used it.
    Any double decker works for me. I like to get the front seat on the top. Always a great day when that happens.
    Until the driver slams the brakes on.
  • Options

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    Judging by Chris Whitty's comments today. all we can expect from today's press conference is another giant dollop of gloom.

    I hope you are bracing yourselves.

    - "England's chief medical officer Prof Chris Whitty says the rates of people falling ill with coronavirus is continuing to fall, and although it is "going down more slowly" this was expected, as children return to school.

    He says the number of people in hospital with coronavirus has come down "rapidly".

    Deaths registered after 28 days of a positive coronavirus test result have started to fall "much more rapidly", he adds."

    - "New surges will meet a wall of vaccinated people".

    Your definition of "gloom" and mine do seem to vary.


    No here you are right Andy. Hands up. It was much more upbeat that I was expecting. They even talked about the enormous challenges ahead in terms of mental health issues and cancer backlogs.

    Trouble is, you could argue that their measures in part, exacerbated those problems. I think they even sort of acknowledged that.

    I think that much of the criticism that comes your way on this site comes from the fact that everyone knows these measures have such effects. Its the balancing of them against the effect of not locking down that is the problem. You will doubtless point to Florida or Sweden but views differe.

    There was a distinct "light at the end of the tunnel" feeling about tonight's press conference I thought.
    I just hope that we are nearly there and don't start drifting backwards on the unlocking plan. The fact that we're now more than a fortnight on from the schools reopening and there hasn't been a disaster - the case rate per 100k per week is now marginally lower than it was on March 8th - gives cause for a degree of optimism.
    What difference will a couple of weeks or a month make. Key is to make sure it is totally safe and not have to go through it again.
    I hear you; however, this plan is already very cautious. The schools in England were all let back at once (and I'll admit that I thought that a bad idea, and would rather they had left the secondaries until after Easter,) but it's effectively done no harm at all. Meanwhile, the bulk of JCVI Phase One is already complete, most of the rest will be done in another two or three weeks, and the death rate is dropping not so much like a stone as like a lead anvil. Meanwhile, lockdown continues to cause a lot of cumulative damage.

    Therefore, whilst I understand the rationale behind all these five week gaps, I think the Government is going to need a very convincing explanation indeed for holding off any longer than that from hereon in. I can see why they might take fright at letting millions jet off on sunshine holidays, but you wonder where else a tsunami wave of cases that is going to overwhelm the NHS - which, we must try to remind ourselves, is meant to have been the sole rationale for lockdowns in the first place - is going to come from? The April 12th step consists, broadly speaking, of shops other than supermarkets, sitting at a table with a drink outdoors, and hyper-sanitised hair salons with the staff in gloves, masks and face shields; by the time we get to the actual big unlock on May 17th, almost everyone in cohorts 1-4 will have had their second jab, the over 45s will probably have had their first, and cases, hospitalisations and deaths should be pretty well on the floor.

    We should be careful coming out of this present spell of imprisonment, for sure, but we mustn't be so frightened that we keep ourselves needlessly sealed away for the rest of the year. There will never come a point at which the virus is eradicated, and consequently there'll always be someone saying that it's too soon to throw open the jailhouse doors. Once it ceases to be sensible to listen to that someone then we should start ignoring them.
    Yes agree, I will be very cautious for sure given my wife has been shielding. I reckon it will be a fair spell till we are anywhere near what new normal will be.
    I do fancy a pint in a pub but it will need to be an outside one so can only hope for some decent weather.
    I think we can all agree on the need for some decent weather. A repeat of last Spring would be just what the doctor ordered, but I don't think we're going to get it. About the best that can be said of the long range forecasts around here is that at least they appear to be predominantly dry. Over on the western side of the island I'm not so sure you'll be even that lucky. Best case scenario for that first pub visit, warm coat; worst case scenario, warm coat and brolly I fear...
    Next week in London looks quite warm and sunny - up to 18C, plenty of sunshine


    That will feel like real Beer Garden weather. Bring it on. The parks will be heaving. I went up Primrose Hill just now - a lovely clear spring evening, but chilly - and it was rammed.

    When it gets warm?

    There appears to be a three day window round the end of the month up here (and we're not that far north of London) where it's meant to be reasonably warm. Before and after, 10, 11, 12 degrees.

    But yes, so long as it doesn't rain there'll be more and more people outside. Because we're all sick and tired of the lockdown, and the lower the case rate and the death rate both go, the fewer people will be left who are still too frightened to go outdoors.

    Once the pubs open back up then, unless this coincides with howling gales and torrential downpours, they should do a brisk trade.
    I went to Asda today and it was heaving with few trollies available and near full car park.

    Same with B & Q now their garden centre is open

    Lots of vaccinated pensioners everywhere but also just lots of people acting as if covid is over
    People have had enough.

    On the broader topic of things Welsh - and apologies, because this is old news and has presumably already been done to death on PB - I just spotted the latest Welsh Barometer that came out yesterday. Now, I understand that Senedd polling is all about who gets to be Labour's junior partner, and is therefore almost as boring and monotonous a story as that for Holyrood, but I'm surprised just how weak Labour are becoming - especially since AIUI Welsh Labour has basically turned itself into a nationalist party and started selecting pro-independence candidates. Will it last?
    I assume this is the poll you refer to

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1374436095153164288?s=19

    I have no idea where you get the idea labour in Wales has turned into a Nationalist party as there is no evidence I have seen for that observation and indeed Drakeford only a few days ago pledged his support for the union, and not for the first time

    Wales is not Scotland and Independence is not an issue
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Fishing said:

    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!

    If only they had brought in the Euro Pass...
    Appalled.
    Yes Minister is of course fiction.

    No politician is ever as brave as Hacker, and we can only wish for civil servants as competent as Sir Humphrey.
    I've always found it amusing that the ending 'triumph' of the series is the relative good guy of Hacker bullying and blackmailing an official into lying in order to cover a mistake Hacker made (albeit unintentionally), presented as a positive outcome. I know Humphrey was sinister at times, but that was harsh!
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!

    If only they had brought in the Euro Pass...
    Appalled.
    Yes Minister is of course fiction.

    No politician is ever as brave as Hacker, and we can only wish for civil servants as competent as Sir Humphrey.
    Sir Humphrey made a very shrewd observation in tonight's episode than the UK joined the Common Market precisely to ensure Europe remained disunited and to play the main European nations off against each other, the main British foreign policy objective of the last 500 years
    Trying the same from outside looks a tough proposition.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    alex_ said:

    Seems a bit unlikely. I can't think of too many things that would explain a 7pt swing in one month. More likely two outliers at opposite ends of the spectrum.
    The previous BMG poll was last April - 11 months ago!
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,114

    Now the dust has settled, it’s clear that the irrepressible Sturgeon has pulled off yet another political win with this inquiry gubbins. Nobody understood it from the outset (and if you’re explaining, you’re losing) but the Tories up there seem to have blundered massively by jumping the gun.

    They didn't jump the gun. The Nats cleverly leaked the Holyrood report
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,167
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!

    Reggie Perrin follows
    The BBC, time travel back to the 1970s and 80s and just for the price of a TV licence. Magic!
    Middle aged breakdown is a timeless subject
    Wasn't quite so timeless when Clunes reprised the role thirty years later.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!

    If only they had brought in the Euro Pass...
    Appalled.
    Yes Minister is of course fiction.

    No politician is ever as brave as Hacker, and we can only wish for civil servants as competent as Sir Humphrey.
    Sir Humphrey made a very shrewd observation in tonight's episode than the UK joined the Common Market precisely to ensure Europe remained disunited and to play the main European nations off against each other, the main British foreign policy objective of the last 500 years
    Trying the same from outside looks a tough proposition.
    A point Sir Humphrey also made.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057

    I have no idea where you get the idea labour in Wales has turned into a Nationalist party as there is no evidence I have seen for that observation and indeed Drakeford only a few days ago pledged his support for the union, and not for the first time

    Wales is not Scotland and Independence is not an issue

    He keeps saying things like this:
    https://twitter.com/NationCymru/status/1374413553080311816
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,076
    Anyone know what the current situation is regarding:

    1) Pfizer available for second doses
    2) When Moderna will be delivered (April ?)
    3) When Novavax will be approved and what production levels will be

    With the big increase in first doses last week and this being AZN then they wont need the second doses to June.

    If AZN is being produced in the UK at a rate of 2m (or 3m ?) per week, and the possibility of another 5m from India, then there will be no shortage of those soon.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,266
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Just finished reading Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons. With apologies to Malmesbury, there's just something about Banks I cannot get into. He was obviously creative and unconventional, but something in his works just doesn't click for me. It might in part be all the stream of consciousnes pontificating characters do, as despite being a fan of PB stream of consciousness is not my thing.

    Have you tried his non-sci-fi? Loved the crow road when I first read it. Seem to recall it was filmed too.
    Not read his non-sci-fi yet. I did think Consider Phlebas was alright, but there's only so many chances I can give an author.
    Excession and Player of Games are probably his best 2 sci fi. On the non sci fi I would agree about the Crow Road and would also recommend the Business.

    But I'm a fan. When I finished Use of Weapons I was so gobsmacked that I went straight back to p1 and read it again.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    I have no idea where you get the idea labour in Wales has turned into a Nationalist party as there is no evidence I have seen for that observation and indeed Drakeford only a few days ago pledged his support for the union, and not for the first time

    Wales is not Scotland and Independence is not an issue

    He keeps saying things like this:
    https://twitter.com/NationCymru/status/1374413553080311816
    Well that approach becomes a bit self fulfilling.
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    kle4 said:

    Just finished reading Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons. With apologies to Malmesbury, there's just something about Banks I cannot get into. He was obviously creative and unconventional, but something in his works just doesn't click for me. It might in part be all the stream of consciousnes pontificating characters do, as despite being a fan of PB stream of consciousness is not my thing.

    I love Use of Weapons. If you want to persist with Banks and want the sci-fi without the Culture, try Against A Dark Background, which is awesome.

    For something else but still Scottish author sci-fi, try some Ken Macleod, is my other recommendation.
  • Options

    I have no idea where you get the idea labour in Wales has turned into a Nationalist party as there is no evidence I have seen for that observation and indeed Drakeford only a few days ago pledged his support for the union, and not for the first time

    Wales is not Scotland and Independence is not an issue

    He keeps saying things like this:
    https://twitter.com/NationCymru/status/1374413553080311816
    That is not the same as supporting independence
  • Options
    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977
    Leon said:

    Now the dust has settled, it’s clear that the irrepressible Sturgeon has pulled off yet another political win with this inquiry gubbins. Nobody understood it from the outset (and if you’re explaining, you’re losing) but the Tories up there seem to have blundered massively by jumping the gun.

    They didn't jump the gun. The Nats cleverly leaked the Holyrood report
    Yup, this is probably what’s happened.

    Either way, I’m not necessarily convinced it is a bad thing Sturgeon continues on. I had thought she was extremely capable, but the whole saga is generally dodgy
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,114
    kle4 said:

    "Prietty Patells new bill criminallising trespass is an attack on Traveller, Gypsy, Squatter and Homeless communities. The gov think being nomadick and free living makes your a crimainl. What do you think?"

    Looking past the spelling errors, which I can forgive, it seems a bit densely packed for a protest sign. I'd have gone with 'Being free thinking is not a crime...yet'.
    The phrase "Nomadick", ie "Noma dick" is.... historically quite exultantly inappropriate in almost every way

    I will take PB through the atrocities here

    First

    Dick? Really? Are they saying Roma, and travelling communities are a bit "dick"? I don't need to explain this. So I will let it go.It is trivial. But juxtaposing it in a new word with Noma such that you look at NOMA and say "what's that"?

    Noma is this. Be warned:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=noma+disease&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB880TH882&sxsrf=ALeKk00HU43dJ1DnvV6xJWZRVx4wgmZ8iQ:1616532530830&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjm-ZH6pMfvAhVzwuYKHfLqD9QQ_AUoAXoECBMQAw&biw=1504&bih=860&dpr=1.5

    It is a hideous, disfiguring facial disease. Quite appalling. 3 minutes of Googling this and you will never google it again.

    And, guess what?

    Noma, the disease, particularly infected Roma communities in the Nazi death camps. I do not joke

    https://www.mp.pl/auschwitz/journal/english/211091,noma-cases-among-the-roma-in-auschwitz-birkenau


    If I were a particularly mean but devious Daily Mail journalist (I am not) I could target the person who created this placard, cleverly insinuate that they intended to insult Roma people with a facial disease they suffered in death camps, at the same time as I called them "dicks". ..


    They would be so cancelled they would probably have to live on another planet
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,167
    justin124 said:

    Comres last week also had the main parties on 39% - 37% - implying a Hung Parliament similar to 2017. The Redfield & Wilton poll showing a 6% Tory lead would point to a Tory majority of circa 30. Neither poll prima facie appears to confirm the Wales Yougov poll.
    I think Wales is uniquely different. In Wales Johnson is rewarded for the vaccine rollout and Drakeford penalised for closing the pubs. In England Johnson's reward for vaccinations is tempered somewhat by his closing the pubs
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,076
    edited March 2021
    kle4 said:

    "Prietty Patells new bill criminallising trespass is an attack on Traveller, Gypsy, Squatter and Homeless communities. The gov think being nomadick and free living makes your a crimainl. What do you think?"

    Looking past the spelling errors, which I can forgive, it seems a bit densely packed for a protest sign. I'd have gone with 'Being free thinking is not a crime...yet'.
    It looks like they wanted a sign guaranteed to lose them working class support.
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Just finished reading Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons. With apologies to Malmesbury, there's just something about Banks I cannot get into. He was obviously creative and unconventional, but something in his works just doesn't click for me. It might in part be all the stream of consciousnes pontificating characters do, as despite being a fan of PB stream of consciousness is not my thing.

    Have you tried his non-sci-fi? Loved the crow road when I first read it. Seem to recall it was filmed too.
    Not read his non-sci-fi yet. I did think Consider Phlebas was alright, but there's only so many chances I can give an author.
    Excession and Player of Games are probably his best 2 sci fi. On the non sci fi I would agree about the Crow Road and would also recommend the Business.

    But I'm a fan. When I finished Use of Weapons I was so gobsmacked that I went straight back to p1 and read it again.
    Have you read Dead Air? That's brilliant.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,561

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scots Tories still don’t have any friends.

    The problem is that Scottish Labour still like to think they are fighting the Tories. Its truly bizarre displacement activity. It doesn't matter how many times the SNP smash them to the 4 winds, take all their seats, take all their Councils, replace all their chums and placemen in the broader state, they still want to go on about fighting the Tories.

    I have had leaflets in Dundee West, even at the last election, saying vote Labour to stop the Tories. The SNP majority in that seat is now over 12k. Labour have been annihilated and yet will still not engage with their true foe. Abstaining today when SKS has already called for Sturgeon to go is simply typical. Its pathological and, frankly, insane.
    Maybe Labour have realised that they’re not going to overtake the SNP in the short term, and that their immediate goal should be to aim for second place and to become the official opposition. Or it could be that they realise that the Tories under Davidson and DRoss are worse than the SNP.
    If we're really lucky then the SNP will achieve their primary objective and these arguments can be rendered moot. You get your independence and the shitty Labour Party gets its Zimmer frame kicked away on both sides of the border.

    They blew up Britain and they inflicted Corbyn on us. They deserve to burn.
    Britain would be permanently blown up if Scotland left
    Too late. Being British is a niche interest largely for Tories, ethnic minorities and very old people nowadays.

    Wait and see what comes out of the census results when they're published. The country is falling apart.
    Racism! I put down British AND English on my Census!
    Next time, add "North Cornish" to the list.

    Then see IF you can get a subsidy from the Duke of Cornwall's Very Special Fund for Fuq-all.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited March 2021

    I have no idea where you get the idea labour in Wales has turned into a Nationalist party as there is no evidence I have seen for that observation and indeed Drakeford only a few days ago pledged his support for the union, and not for the first time

    Wales is not Scotland and Independence is not an issue

    He keeps saying things like this:
    https://twitter.com/NationCymru/status/1374413553080311816
    As long as Drakeford remains in charge, Wales is actually 'sleepwalking' from Labour to the Tories on the latest Welsh polls today. The pro independence Plaid remain a distant third.

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1374139085061820416?s=20

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1374284453888024576?s=20
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057
    edited March 2021
    France is having more data issues. They say that the results of 200,000 tests haven't been able to be integrated with their dataset, so they are unable to publish a figure for the number of positives today.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,403
    edited March 2021
    Time for modern day Operations Husky, Avalanche, Baytown, and Slapstick.

    https://twitter.com/john_hooper/status/1374460029525356553
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited March 2021

    kle4 said:

    Just finished reading Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons. With apologies to Malmesbury, there's just something about Banks I cannot get into. He was obviously creative and unconventional, but something in his works just doesn't click for me. It might in part be all the stream of consciousnes pontificating characters do, as despite being a fan of PB stream of consciousness is not my thing.

    I love Use of Weapons. If you want to persist with Banks and want the sci-fi without the Culture, try Against A Dark Background, which is awesome.

    For something else but still Scottish author sci-fi, try some Ken Macleod, is my other recommendation.
    Thanks, I may give it a try - I have read some MacLeod, as I picked up a couple of his books in Wigtown, as it happens, and quite enjoyed them. With Banks I feel like I should enjoy things more than I do, trying to figure out what I am missing that others are getting out of it, as it's clearly well written and well crafted.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Andy_JS said:
    Andy_JS said:
    Rather sad. He has often commented on the Vote UK site.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,167

    I have no idea where you get the idea labour in Wales has turned into a Nationalist party as there is no evidence I have seen for that observation and indeed Drakeford only a few days ago pledged his support for the union, and not for the first time

    Wales is not Scotland and Independence is not an issue

    He keeps saying things like this:
    https://twitter.com/NationCymru/status/1374413553080311816
    That is not the same as supporting independence
    Drakey may be as dull as dishwater, but he knows if Scotland jump the Union ship, there will be a domino effect in Wales.
  • Options

    Time for modern day Operations Husky, Baytown, and Slapstick.

    https://twitter.com/john_hooper/status/1374460029525356553

    To be honest you just could not make these stories up

    Looks as Europe has completely lost the plot
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    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Just finished reading Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons. With apologies to Malmesbury, there's just something about Banks I cannot get into. He was obviously creative and unconventional, but something in his works just doesn't click for me. It might in part be all the stream of consciousnes pontificating characters do, as despite being a fan of PB stream of consciousness is not my thing.

    I love Use of Weapons. If you want to persist with Banks and want the sci-fi without the Culture, try Against A Dark Background, which is awesome.

    For something else but still Scottish author sci-fi, try some Ken Macleod, is my other recommendation.
    Thanks, I may give it a try - I have read some MacLeod, as I picked up a couple of his books in Wigtown, as it happens, and quite enjoyed them. With Banks I feel like I should enjoy things more than I do, trying to figure out what I am missing that others are getting out of it, as it's clearly well written and well crafted.
    Oh, nice. What Macleod books were they?
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,076
    edited March 2021
    If we're recommending sci-fi novels then this is good and written in an interesting style:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stand-Zanzibar-S-F-MASTERWORKS-Brunner/dp/1473206375/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=stand+on+zanzibar&qid=1616533402&sr=8-1

    There are seven billion-plus humans crowding the surface of 21st-century Earth. It is an age of intelligent computers, mass-market psychedelic drugs, politics conducted by assassination, scientists who burn incense to appease volcanoes ... all the hysteria of a dangerously overcrowded world, portrayed in a dazzlingly inventive style.

    Moving, sensory, impressionistic, as jagged as the times it portrays, this book is a real mind stretcher - and yet beautifully orchestrated to give a vivid picture of the whole.

  • Options
    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977

    I have no idea where you get the idea labour in Wales has turned into a Nationalist party as there is no evidence I have seen for that observation and indeed Drakeford only a few days ago pledged his support for the union, and not for the first time

    Wales is not Scotland and Independence is not an issue

    He keeps saying things like this:
    https://twitter.com/NationCymru/status/1374413553080311816
    That is not the same as supporting independence
    Drakey may be as dull as dishwater, but he knows if Scotland jump the Union ship, there will be a domino effect in Wales.
    Hey, while we’re at it, we may as well all go back to the constituent nations of the UK.

    Not sure where that would leave us. England as the largest (presumably most dominant) nation in the isles?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,266
    Stand on Zanzibar is an all time classic. One of the true greats of sci fi.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited March 2021

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Just finished reading Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons. With apologies to Malmesbury, there's just something about Banks I cannot get into. He was obviously creative and unconventional, but something in his works just doesn't click for me. It might in part be all the stream of consciousnes pontificating characters do, as despite being a fan of PB stream of consciousness is not my thing.

    I love Use of Weapons. If you want to persist with Banks and want the sci-fi without the Culture, try Against A Dark Background, which is awesome.

    For something else but still Scottish author sci-fi, try some Ken Macleod, is my other recommendation.
    Thanks, I may give it a try - I have read some MacLeod, as I picked up a couple of his books in Wigtown, as it happens, and quite enjoyed them. With Banks I feel like I should enjoy things more than I do, trying to figure out what I am missing that others are getting out of it, as it's clearly well written and well crafted.
    Oh, nice. What Macleod books were they?
    Learning the World, and the Engines of Light trilogy (sadly I don't actually remember much about the latter, other than enjoying them at the time). I remember it distinctly as I completely mispronounced his name while purchasing them, in Scotland.

    On Banks, looking him up I see apparently his last book was about a fairly youngish man dying of cancer, written before he discovered he had terminal cancel. Jesus.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,167
    algarkirk said:

    Bodes well for LE if not an outlier.

    I urge caution from SKS fans.

    My comrades who have been phone canvassing not reporting much of a swing from 2017 and if anything a worsening position in March calls

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    2h
    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 39% (-7)
    LAB: 37% (+8)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)

    via
    @BMGResearch
    , 16 - 19 Mar

    That poll is about right for Labour but four or five points shy for the Tories.

    Don't forget Rishi's "free" money will be entering voter's bank accounts a week or two before the LEs. So for a while the double digit lead may well return.
    With MoE every recent poll is consistent with the Tories being on 42 (all in the range 39-45).

    Ditto with MoE every poll is consistent with Labour on 35 or 36 (all in the range 33-38)
    Yes, I think a six or seven point Tory lead is about right for the moment, that's where I am too.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,415
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,114

    Time for modern day Operations Husky, Baytown, and Slapstick.

    https://twitter.com/john_hooper/status/1374460029525356553

    I've no idea what those Operations are, but I hope they involve us flying in the Royal Marines and the SAS, with a side order of MI6, seizing these unused vax phials in their millions, a la Entebbe, and choppering them home to save millions of Brits, as the euroloons clearly have no obvious desire to utilise this vax, indeed they are oddly keen to throw the jabs in the bin yet prosecute anyone for emptying the bin
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,076

    Time for modern day Operations Husky, Avalanche, Baytown, and Slapstick.

    https://twitter.com/john_hooper/status/1374460029525356553

    So if someone dies because their vaccination was consequently cancelled will the prosecutor be charged with manslaughter ?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,266

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Just finished reading Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons. With apologies to Malmesbury, there's just something about Banks I cannot get into. He was obviously creative and unconventional, but something in his works just doesn't click for me. It might in part be all the stream of consciousnes pontificating characters do, as despite being a fan of PB stream of consciousness is not my thing.

    Have you tried his non-sci-fi? Loved the crow road when I first read it. Seem to recall it was filmed too.
    Not read his non-sci-fi yet. I did think Consider Phlebas was alright, but there's only so many chances I can give an author.
    Excession and Player of Games are probably his best 2 sci fi. On the non sci fi I would agree about the Crow Road and would also recommend the Business.

    But I'm a fan. When I finished Use of Weapons I was so gobsmacked that I went straight back to p1 and read it again.
    Have you read Dead Air? That's brilliant.
    I have but only once to be honest. It didn't really grab me.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    I have no idea where you get the idea labour in Wales has turned into a Nationalist party as there is no evidence I have seen for that observation and indeed Drakeford only a few days ago pledged his support for the union, and not for the first time

    Wales is not Scotland and Independence is not an issue

    He keeps saying things like this:
    https://twitter.com/NationCymru/status/1374413553080311816
    As long as Drakeford remains in charge, Wales is actually 'sleepwalking' from Labour to the Tories on the latest Welsh polls today. The pro independence Plaid remain a distant third.

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1374139085061820416?s=20

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1374284453888024576?s=20
    It would be good to see a non-Yougov poll in Wales - given that their last two GB polls showed evidence of a pro-Tory skew with leads of 13% and 9%.
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Just finished reading Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons. With apologies to Malmesbury, there's just something about Banks I cannot get into. He was obviously creative and unconventional, but something in his works just doesn't click for me. It might in part be all the stream of consciousnes pontificating characters do, as despite being a fan of PB stream of consciousness is not my thing.

    I love Use of Weapons. If you want to persist with Banks and want the sci-fi without the Culture, try Against A Dark Background, which is awesome.

    For something else but still Scottish author sci-fi, try some Ken Macleod, is my other recommendation.
    Thanks, I may give it a try - I have read some MacLeod, as I picked up a couple of his books in Wigtown, as it happens, and quite enjoyed them. With Banks I feel like I should enjoy things more than I do, trying to figure out what I am missing that others are getting out of it, as it's clearly well written and well crafted.
    Oh, nice. What Macleod books were they?
    Learning the World, and the Engines of Light trilogy (sadly I don't actually remember much about the latter, other than enjoying them at the time). I remember it distinctly as I completely mispronounced his name while purchasing them, in Scotland.

    On Banks, looking him up I see apparently his last book was about a fairly youngish man dying of cancer, written before he discovered he had terminal cancel. Jesus.
    Those are good, but there are even better Macleod books in my opinion. The Fall Revolution series (The Star Fraction, The Stone Canal, The Cassini Division & The Sky Road), Intrusion, and The Execution Channel (my second favourite book ever) are my recommended reads.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,167

    I have no idea where you get the idea labour in Wales has turned into a Nationalist party as there is no evidence I have seen for that observation and indeed Drakeford only a few days ago pledged his support for the union, and not for the first time

    Wales is not Scotland and Independence is not an issue

    He keeps saying things like this:
    https://twitter.com/NationCymru/status/1374413553080311816
    That is not the same as supporting independence
    Drakey may be as dull as dishwater, but he knows if Scotland jump the Union ship, there will be a domino effect in Wales.
    Hey, while we’re at it, we may as well all go back to the constituent nations of the UK.

    Not sure where that would leave us. England as the largest (presumably most dominant) nation in the isles?
    I am expecting a united Ireland too.

    An independent Wales won't happen immediately, but the notion of subservience to our feudal landlord will start to grate.
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    Leon said:

    Time for modern day Operations Husky, Baytown, and Slapstick.

    https://twitter.com/john_hooper/status/1374460029525356553

    I've no idea what those Operations are, but I hope they involve us flying in the Royal Marines and the SAS, with a side order of MI6, seizing these unused vax phials in their millions, a la Entebbe, and choppering them home to save millions of Brits, as the euroloons clearly have no obvious desire to utilise this vax, indeed they are oddly keen to throw the jabs in the bin yet prosecute anyone for emptying the bin
    Operation Husky was the allied invasion of Sicily during WWII.

    Operations Avalanche, Baytown, and Slapstick were the allied invasion of mainland Italy during WWII.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited March 2021

    I have no idea where you get the idea labour in Wales has turned into a Nationalist party as there is no evidence I have seen for that observation and indeed Drakeford only a few days ago pledged his support for the union, and not for the first time

    Wales is not Scotland and Independence is not an issue

    He keeps saying things like this:
    https://twitter.com/NationCymru/status/1374413553080311816
    That is not the same as supporting independence
    Drakey may be as dull as dishwater, but he knows if Scotland jump the Union ship, there will be a domino effect in Wales.
    Scotland will not be going anywhere soon while we continue to have a PM committed to respect the once in a generation 2014 vote and with the SNP no longer even sure of a Holyrood majority.

    Scotland also voted to stay in the EU so has an alternative to the UK even if it did eventually leave the Union, Wales voted to Leave the EU, so if it left the UK too it would be completely alone, hence Plaid remains a poor third in Wales
  • Options
    Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    Time for modern day Operations Husky, Avalanche, Baytown, and Slapstick.

    https://twitter.com/john_hooper/status/1374460029525356553

    Jesus Christ. Who the fuck are these people?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,285
    edited March 2021
    Every day seems to bring more and more controversy and no doubt tomorrow will be no different

    HMG to send in commissioners to take on the day to day management of Liverpool City

    Alex Salmond's press conference

    PMQ's though I expect that to be boring if it is like the last few
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,076
    Leon said:

    Time for modern day Operations Husky, Baytown, and Slapstick.

    https://twitter.com/john_hooper/status/1374460029525356553

    I've no idea what those Operations are, but I hope they involve us flying in the Royal Marines and the SAS, with a side order of MI6, seizing these unused vax phials in their millions, a la Entebbe, and choppering them home to save millions of Brits, as the euroloons clearly have no obvious desire to utilise this vax, indeed they are oddly keen to throw the jabs in the bin yet prosecute anyone for emptying the bin
    Its the Pfizer doses which are important for the UK not the AZN.

    And the number of deaths has already dropped like a stone and will continue to do so.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,266

    Time for modern day Operations Husky, Avalanche, Baytown, and Slapstick.

    https://twitter.com/john_hooper/status/1374460029525356553

    Jesus Christ. Who the fuck are these people?
    The great, great grandson of the last witchfinder general. Nothing else makes sense.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,114
    Fuck. Brazil.

    Nearly 80,000 cases. Nearly 3,000 deaths. Today. So far

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    I might be wrong but I think that is their highest daily death rate so far, a year after they began. Awful. Awful.

    What is going on? New variants?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Just finished reading Iain M Banks' Use of Weapons. With apologies to Malmesbury, there's just something about Banks I cannot get into. He was obviously creative and unconventional, but something in his works just doesn't click for me. It might in part be all the stream of consciousnes pontificating characters do, as despite being a fan of PB stream of consciousness is not my thing.

    I love Use of Weapons. If you want to persist with Banks and want the sci-fi without the Culture, try Against A Dark Background, which is awesome.

    For something else but still Scottish author sci-fi, try some Ken Macleod, is my other recommendation.
    Thanks, I may give it a try - I have read some MacLeod, as I picked up a couple of his books in Wigtown, as it happens, and quite enjoyed them. With Banks I feel like I should enjoy things more than I do, trying to figure out what I am missing that others are getting out of it, as it's clearly well written and well crafted.
    Oh, nice. What Macleod books were they?
    Learning the World, and the Engines of Light trilogy (sadly I don't actually remember much about the latter, other than enjoying them at the time). I remember it distinctly as I completely mispronounced his name while purchasing them, in Scotland.

    On Banks, looking him up I see apparently his last book was about a fairly youngish man dying of cancer, written before he discovered he had terminal cancel. Jesus.
    Those are good, but there are even better Macleod books in my opinion. The Fall Revolution series (The Star Fraction, The Stone Canal, The Cassini Division & The Sky Road), Intrusion, and The Execution Channel (my second favourite book ever) are my recommended reads.
    In return I'd recommend Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky. Took be genuinely by surprise and was moving and deep without seeming preachy or pretentious (mostly). It's followup Children of Ruin was not quite as good, but still very interesting.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,415
    Leon said:

    Fuck. Brazil.

    Nearly 80,000 cases. Nearly 3,000 deaths. Today. So far

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    I might be wrong but I think that is their highest daily death rate so far, a year after they began. Awful. Awful.

    What is going on? New variants?

    Don't see what they've done to deserve your ire.
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    Yes Minister on BBC4 right now!

    If only they had brought in the Euro Pass...
    Appalled.
    Yes Minister is of course fiction.

    No politician is ever as brave as Hacker, and we can only wish for civil servants as competent as Sir Humphrey.
    Sir Humphrey made a very shrewd observation in tonight's episode than the UK joined the Common Market precisely to ensure Europe remained disunited and to play the main European nations off against each other, the main British foreign policy objective of the last 500 years
    Trying the same from outside looks a tough proposition.
    Unfortunately it hasn't been realistic since the Single European Act - the creation of a single market, and giving the Commission the power to enforce it, has meant that Divide and Rule no longer really worked. Nor did vetoing, as Cameron found out in 2011.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,403
    edited March 2021
    Leon said:

    Fuck. Brazil.

    Nearly 80,000 cases. Nearly 3,000 deaths. Today. So far

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    I might be wrong but I think that is their highest daily death rate so far, a year after they began. Awful. Awful.

    What is going on? New variants?

    You have a Covid-19 denier in charge, see this thread.

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1372005826383204353

    This is what happens when the health system gets overwhelmed by Covid-19.

    https://twitter.com/tomphillipsin/status/1372556730635288576
This discussion has been closed.