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Break open your cage and VOOM: New policies for the Lib Dems – politicalbetting.com

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  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    Rawnsley described Scotland as a "cold weather Banana republic" this morning.
    Silly comment. Scotland can get quite warm in the summer.
    Bloody hell - not in any of my visits
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    ydoethur said:

    He’s gone beyond saltire.
    No need to be penantic.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    Rawnsley described Scotland as a "cold weather Banana republic" this morning.
    Silly comment. Scotland can get quite warm in the summer.
    Bloody hell - not in any of my visits
    I got some nasty sun burn at Troon during the first day of the 2016 Open.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited February 2021
    I am trying to work out why Liverpool signed Ben Davies, a 25 year old, if he isn't going to even get on the bench when 1st through 6th choice centre backs are injured.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    In Parliament against the sitting administration I assume? What difference would that make to anything? It'd split entirely along party lines so the First Minister would be rock solid safe with the support of the sock puppet Greens.

    Besides, we all know that Nicola Sturgeon is the Jacinda Ardern of Scotland. Her amazing not-quite-identical-to-Boris-Johnson Covid policies, coupled with daily looking very stern at press conferences for a year, means that her ratings are stratospheric. Just look at the most recent polling. The people love her.
    Just a bit less than they did last time they were asked.
    Net +32 more than six years since taking the reins is still very good going. She's even more beloved in Scotland than Saint Rishi of Richmondshire is in England.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    Rawnsley described Scotland as a "cold weather Banana republic" this morning.
    Silly comment. Scotland can get quite warm in the summer.
    Got quite badly sunburnt on the Inner Hebs in late April.....
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,438
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    Rawnsley described Scotland as a "cold weather Banana republic" this morning.
    Silly comment. Scotland can get quite warm in the summer.
    Bloody hell - not in any of my visits
    Wifey managed to get heat stroke during the lochaber marathon. It is possible to have warm days north of the border, but rarely the overpowering heat of the Deep South (London).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    Rawnsley described Scotland as a "cold weather Banana republic" this morning.
    Silly comment. Scotland can get quite warm in the summer.
    Bloody hell - not in any of my visits
    Last time I went to Scotland I had a fortnight of truly gorgeous weather. Hot, sunny and dry.

    I noticed it particularly as I was on a cycling holiday and actually some cooler weather would have been welcome, particularly when doing the trails around Fort Augustus.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    guybrush said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Deepfakes will also, entirely, fuck up the legal system. Video evidence will always be challenged, it will become virtually useless (photo evidence too, of course). Witnesses or complainants will no longer be able to give evidence via a screen?

    That’s just the law

    Why pay an actor £10m when you can deepfake Laurence Olivier for ten quid?

    Movie making suddenly got a hundred times cheaper

    The more you go down this rabbit hole, the darker yet deeper it gets

    Why bother with humans at all? Surely this technology makes electronic replacements easier and cheaper. No unions, no toilet breaks, no repeat fees, whatever body shape is thought desirable...I think I will stop there.
    Agree, it sounds scaremongery, but I think we should be seriously worried about this. There was a Sam Harris podcast with Nina Schick which explored the possible issues in terrifying detail. Once we're over Covid, I'd put some money on this being the next societal upheaval to deal with.

    I'd suggest banning the technology lock stock and barrel (a bit like the US export restrictions for PGP cryptography back in the day), if it wasn't completely unworkable in this day and age.
    It happens that this is a technology that I know a great deal about. And I'm not as worried as some of you here about veracity. It is entirely possible to build verification technology into cameras and webcams, such that the recipient can tell that the content has not been faked (and, optionally, who originated the image or video). I think this will make reliable photo and video journalism possible again, but there may be an intermediate period where faking is easy and verification is not widespread.

    That doesn't deal with the Holywood question, of course, but I expect the unions to have something to say about that. Indeed there are already rules about using an actor's likeness (at least in the US, after the Back to the Future II incident).

    As for the technology, watch this space!

    --AS
    You don’t think a bad actor might make cameras that don’t have that built-in tech? Like, say, China?!

    I might sound a bit afeared, but remember the famous saying

    ‘Fear is a species of excitement’

    So true. I’m really just excited.

    Which famous philosopher said that?

    No one. It’s a quote invented from scratch by an AI computer



    https://twitter.com/bygpt3/status/1359911175727685632?s=21

    No, because everyone would know that the photo or video it produced was unverified. This isn't like DRM for music (that completely failed for the reason you suggest) but an opt-in for those wishing to produce photographs that they can claim are genuine.

    So then it would be: photo taken with a Nikon camera and verification intact = genuine, photo taken with a Sinocam = don't trust, especially if Sinocam have been found to produce fake photos in the past.

    --AS
    That sounds utopianly optimistic to me, however this is your field, so you may be right. Let’s hope so

    However, it occurs to me that it’s more likely you are a deepfake commenter, a bot generated by a Chinese computer, which has sent you on here to calm us down with phoney good news, so we don’t actually take steps to stop AI taking over.

    I know your game.
    It is worth remembering that the same technology that allows Deep Fakes to be made, also allows them to be identified. What seems very real to a human, will seem very fake to a neural net trained on millions of videos of deep fakes.
    Actually I don't entirely agree with you here. Increasing the Deep Fakes will be created with GANs, and unless the detector uses a very different architecture the fake will have been effectively designed to avoid that detector (and even different architectures might not save you). I have a lot of respect for the work on deep fake detection -- indeed, the academics doing it are my friends -- but I don't think they win that race in the long run.

    To Leon's point that one cannot replace doubt with trust, I also disagree. Consider authentication online. Internet banking was impossible in the 90s, because the customer could not authenticate their bank (the other way around could have been done with passwords, a truly 1990s technology!). That problem has been largely solved, though some kinks remain in terms of phishing. However even that has technologically-available solutions, which will be deployed in a few years' time.

    --AS
    Hmmm...

    But surely - given enough training - the GAN created will effectively be tuned to notice the artifacts and features that Deep Fake GANs produce?

    While tangential, this is worth a read, and is one of the reasons why I disagree: https://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/sensors/slight-street-sign-modifications-can-fool-machine-learning-algorithms
    But then the DeepFake GAN can be retrained, using whatever approach the detector is employing to spot fakes, in their system to produce new images that the detector then sees as genuine and ultimately be a superior image.

    Remember a GAN is a joint training approach, where you have a counterfeiter generating new images and an "expert" who decides if the generated image is genuine or not, and training a GAN is deemed complete when the counterfeiting process is producing such good quality images that the "expert" can't tell if they are real or fake. The better the "expert", the better the counterfeiter can get via this feedback loop.
    That's an excellent point.

    BUT

    It works both ways. So long as people are generating new deep fakes (and they are known to be deep fakes), then they can be used in training.

    It is, as you say, an arms race. But I'm not convinced the fakers have all the advantages.
    But you have to know which are the deep fakes. That's fine if it is all "good actors" doing this i.e. academics who wish to spread knowledge.

    But just like real world counterfeiters, there will be groups of people who don't do this and are carefully and quietly deploying their DeepFakes, just as the best art, wine and cash counterfeiters do (and we know how incredibly hard detecting some of these are).

    So the arms race is always weighted towards the bad guy, as the good guy is a reactive position that requires finding the bad guys work to then find out how to react to it.
    Your premise, which is not an unreasonable one, is that the bad actors' models are not available. Its a fair point, even if I suspect that the bulk of innovation in this area happens in plain sight.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    malcolmg said:
    Malcolm, would the committee actually need the permission of the Government to seek and obtain those records? If so, why?
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anyway, why is anyone worried about Liverpool winning the Champions League? It's not happening.

    1) We're European Royalty, we've won more Champions Leagues/European Cups than Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester, Dirty Leeds, and Villa combined

    2) 2005 says hello, we won the Champions League with Djimi Traore, anything is possible with Liverpool, we can win it no centre backs.
    We won the World Cup in 1934, so there!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Highbury
    Genuine question, would you give up the 2004 Invincibles honour for say winning the 2006 Champions League?
    If you'd asked me on the morning of 3 April 2004 what the priorities were it was PL and CL.

    It was only a full time in the Liverpool game on 9 April (I was there) that it occurred to me that we could actually complete an unbeaten season. No one starts out trying to go unbeaten, but given how much it annoys certain people (cough Adrian Durham cough), it's something that I wouldn't give up readily.

    Actually, if I was going to swap it, it wouldn't be for the 2006 CL (as disappointing as it was not to win that). No, it would be the 2007-08 PL. Not getting over the line hurt so much. For me, that it peak Premier League. Man Utd and Chelsea were at their best, and we so nearly beat them. Had the Eduardo thing not happened, I reckon we'd have done it.
    I have to admit I wasn't really that fussed with Liverpool going unbeaten last season then we lost to Watford and it did really bug me, I think it would have festered for longer if the season hadn't been delayed.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    It all makes sense now...

    Agent P is HYFUD

    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1366093024464412673
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    I still don't quite get where the "they opened up too quickly first time" line comes from.

    Unprepared for Autumn? Very much yes.

    Man has Callipo on Southend beach stories incoming for the next few months. HUZZAH.

    As I predicted a couple of weeks ago, people are making their own decisions. Lots of grandparents out with their children and grandchildren in Dorset today.

    With this, and the continuing good news from vaccine data, Govt are going to look terribly behind the curve soon.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    Rawnsley described Scotland as a "cold weather Banana republic" this morning.
    Silly comment. Scotland can get quite warm in the summer.
    Bloody hell - not in any of my visits
    Wifey managed to get heat stroke during the lochaber marathon. It is possible to have warm days north of the border, but rarely the overpowering heat of the Deep South (London).
    That said, there are some unusual pocket microclimates up the west coast, and atypically high temperatures are not at all uncommon around the Moray Firth in late Summer.

    More generally, much of Eastern Scotland benefits from similar rain shadow effects to Eastern England. Glasgow may be a swamp for much of the year, but my experience of St Andrews was that it could be, and frequently was, quite dry. Lashing rain wasn't typically an issue; the howling gales off the North Sea were an altogether different matter...
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    edited February 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made ava;ilable to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    Rawnsley described Scotland as a "cold weather Banana republic" this morning.
    Silly comment. Scotland can get quite warm in the summer.
    Bloody hell - not in any of my visits
    I got some nasty sun burn at Troon during the first day of the 2016 Open.
    So, basically we just had bad luck each time :smiley: - all of them were August btw
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited February 2021

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anyway, why is anyone worried about Liverpool winning the Champions League? It's not happening.

    1) We're European Royalty, we've won more Champions Leagues/European Cups than Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester, Dirty Leeds, and Villa combined

    2) 2005 says hello, we won the Champions League with Djimi Traore, anything is possible with Liverpool, we can win it no centre backs.
    We won the World Cup in 1934, so there!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Highbury
    Genuine question, would you give up the 2004 Invincibles honour for say winning the 2006 Champions League?
    If you'd asked me on the morning of 3 April 2004 what the priorities were it was PL and CL.

    It was only a full time in the Liverpool game on 9 April (I was there) that it occurred to me that we could actually complete an unbeaten season. No one starts out trying to go unbeaten, but given how much it annoys certain people (cough Adrian Durham cough), it's something that I wouldn't give up readily.

    Actually, if I was going to swap it, it wouldn't be for the 2006 CL (as disappointing as it was not to win that). No, it would be the 2007-08 PL. Not getting over the line hurt so much. For me, that it peak Premier League. Man Utd and Chelsea were at their best, and we so nearly beat them. Had the Eduardo thing not happened, I reckon we'd have done it.
    I have to admit I wasn't really that fussed with Liverpool going unbeaten last season then we lost to Watford and it did really bug me, I think it would have festered for longer if the season hadn't been delayed.
    The thing is, it's only when you get close that it becomes tangible. We should have lost at Portsmouth in game 36 (Yakubu went through on goal and shot straight at Lehmann). And, of course, once you've done it, you don't want anyone else doing it so I go through the same thing every season of being desperate for the last team to lose.

    I think I've said it before, but I actually think the bigger achievement was the 2001-02 Arsenal side that scored in every game. Liverpool got to 44 unbeaten, just five behind the Invincibles. Liverpool got to 35 consecutive games scored in (tied with Man Utd c.2000). That's 20 behind the 2001-02 Arsenal side.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Mortimer said:

    I still don't quite get where the "they opened up too quickly first time" line comes from.

    Unprepared for Autumn? Very much yes.

    Man has Callipo on Southend beach stories incoming for the next few months. HUZZAH.

    As I predicted a couple of weeks ago, people are making their own decisions. Lots of grandparents out with their children and grandchildren in Dorset today.

    With this, and the continuing good news from vaccine data, Govt are going to look terribly behind the curve soon.
    Which means they will be in the clear if things spike, as they won't have signalled a relaxation, but no one will really care if they were pessimistic if they are getting to do the things they want to do anyway (even if the rules say otherwise).
  • Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    I hugged my daughter today for the first time in a year.
    We both burst into tears.

    That is heartwarming.

    It's going to make my handshake with my dad seem a bit underwhelming.
    You are permitted a 0.5 second quiver of the upper lip.
    I reserve that exclusively for pixar movies, thank you.
    If you can keep it to 0.5 seconds for the start of Up, you really do have a heart of stone......
    Ooh that's another good shout.

    A list of the most emotional Pixar and similar movies would be interesting.
    I always well up when Baloo dies* in The Jungle Book.

    * spoiler alert: he doesn't.
    Final frame of Monsters Inc.
    Every single time.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598

    On Topic Ed Davey wouldnt voom if you put four million volts through volts through him.

    Or 4m votes for that matter

    Don't you put volts across?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    edited February 2021
    TimT said:

    malcolmg said:
    Malcolm, would the committee actually need the permission of the Government to seek and obtain those records? If so, why?
    AIUI in law they don't, but the Parliament (with it's SNP Minority supported by Green partners) would be able to instruct the committee (I assume).

    Within the committee there was also an SNP/Green majority, but it is not so clear now as the Green MSP Andy Wight (Wright?) is now Independent following a minor outbreak of Trans Wars in presumably the Greens. He has imo been the third most incisive questioner after a Lab and a Tory.

    The whole Salmond's solicitor device is to get around various officials, Prosecution Authority, and Civil Service refusals to allow unredacted evidence to be used for the Committee Enquiry.

    The Scotland Act gives the UK Minister the power to Order Scottish Gov Ministers to do or not do things, in certain circumstances - which may allow it to be prevented without primary legislation at Westminster. I am not clear whether this particular set of circumstances is covered under this power, however, or whatever powers exist that may be applied.

    I think.

    HTH.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    I still don't quite get where the "they opened up too quickly first time" line comes from.

    Unprepared for Autumn? Very much yes.

    Man has Callipo on Southend beach stories incoming for the next few months. HUZZAH.

    As I predicted a couple of weeks ago, people are making their own decisions. Lots of grandparents out with their children and grandchildren in Dorset today.

    With this, and the continuing good news from vaccine data, Govt are going to look terribly behind the curve soon.
    Which means they will be in the clear if things spike, as they won't have signalled a relaxation, but no one will really care if they were pessimistic if they are getting to do the things they want to do anyway (even if the rules say otherwise).
    Up to a point, Lord Copper.

    The slowness on opening up eg shops and beer gardens isn't going to go down well.

    I still think the poster who predicted a pre-polling day 'things are going great, lets open the beer gardens' move might be right. Can't remember who it was?
  • Floater said:

    It all makes sense now...

    Agent P is HYFUD

    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1366093024464412673

    The element of truth in all this is that with a non-Westminster sanctioned referendum (unless the legal position is clarified in the SNP’s favour) the union side has the option of campaigning to completely abstain.

    I think “refusing” a referendum is counterproductive and silly, but having done so the logical thing to do would to boycott any wildcat ones.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anyway, why is anyone worried about Liverpool winning the Champions League? It's not happening.

    1) We're European Royalty, we've won more Champions Leagues/European Cups than Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester, Dirty Leeds, and Villa combined

    2) 2005 says hello, we won the Champions League with Djimi Traore, anything is possible with Liverpool, we can win it no centre backs.
    We won the World Cup in 1934, so there!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Highbury
    Genuine question, would you give up the 2004 Invincibles honour for say winning the 2006 Champions League?
    If you'd asked me on the morning of 3 April 2004 what the priorities were it was PL and CL.

    It was only a full time in the Liverpool game on 9 April (I was there) that it occurred to me that we could actually complete an unbeaten season. No one starts out trying to go unbeaten, but given how much it annoys certain people (cough Adrian Durham cough), it's something that I wouldn't give up readily.

    Actually, if I was going to swap it, it wouldn't be for the 2006 CL (as disappointing as it was not to win that). No, it would be the 2007-08 PL. Not getting over the line hurt so much. For me, that it peak Premier League. Man Utd and Chelsea were at their best, and we so nearly beat them. Had the Eduardo thing not happened, I reckon we'd have done it.
    I have to admit I wasn't really that fussed with Liverpool going unbeaten last season then we lost to Watford and it did really bug me, I think it would have festered for longer if the season hadn't been delayed.
    The thing is, it's only when you get close that it becomes tangible. We should have lost at Portsmouth in game 36 (Yakubu went through on goal and shot straight at Lehmann). And, of course, once you've done it, you don't want anyone else doing it so I go through the same thing every season of being desperate for the last team to lose.

    I think I've said it before, but I actually think the bigger achievement was the 2001-02 Arsenal side that scored in every game. Liverpool got to 44 unbeaten, just five behind the Invincibles. Liverpool got to 35 consecutive games scored in (tied with Man Utd c.2000). That's 20 behind the 2001-02 Arsenal side.
    One thing that made me glad we didn't go unbeaten was OilySailor on twitter pointed out that in the combined 147 seasons since Preston North End and Arsenal went unbeaten they had only won 1 title between them.

    #CursedInvincibles
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,672

    tlg86 said:

    Anyway, why is anyone worried about Liverpool winning the Champions League? It's not happening.

    1) We're European Royalty, we've won more Champions Leagues/European Cups than Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester, Dirty Leeds, and Villa combined

    2) 2005 says hello, we won the Champions League with Djimi Traore, anything is possible with Liverpool, we can win it no centre backs in 2021.
    1) Dodgy sub-sample alert. Liverpool = 6; Man U + Notts Forest + Chelsea + Villa = 7
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ugh. Just made the ultimate Lockdown Error

    Weighed myself

    *insert blank-faced staring emoji*

    Is it gauche of me to admit that I've lost nearly three stone since March 2020?
    No. It is inspiring.

    So the diet starts now. Jesus. And that was basically my last pleasure
    I have to admit whilst all the exericising I've done played a part, I think the lack of weekly working and social three course at places like The Ivy, The Adam Reid, and Gauchos has helped as well.
    Are you going to be on the promotional material for Peleton?
    I have a face for radio.
    Not one belonging to a painter I hope?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    Anyway, why is anyone worried about Liverpool winning the Champions League? It's not happening.

    1) We're European Royalty, we've won more Champions Leagues/European Cups than Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester, Dirty Leeds, and Villa combined

    2) 2005 says hello, we won the Champions League with Djimi Traore, anything is possible with Liverpool, we can win it no centre backs in 2021.
    1) Dodgy sub-sample alert. Liverpool = 6; Man U + Notts Forest + Chelsea + Villa = 7
    Nottingham Forest, but good point.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    I still don't quite get where the "they opened up too quickly first time" line comes from.

    Unprepared for Autumn? Very much yes.

    Man has Callipo on Southend beach stories incoming for the next few months. HUZZAH.

    As I predicted a couple of weeks ago, people are making their own decisions. Lots of grandparents out with their children and grandchildren in Dorset today.

    With this, and the continuing good news from vaccine data, Govt are going to look terribly behind the curve soon.
    Which means they will be in the clear if things spike, as they won't have signalled a relaxation, but no one will really care if they were pessimistic if they are getting to do the things they want to do anyway (even if the rules say otherwise).
    Up to a point, Lord Copper.

    The slowness on opening up eg shops and beer gardens isn't going to go down well.

    I still think the poster who predicted a pre-polling day 'things are going great, lets open the beer gardens' move might be right. Can't remember who it was?
    Point of order: shops and outdoor booze both due to return on April 12th if the earliest exit dates are followed.
  • tlg86 said:

    Anyway, why is anyone worried about Liverpool winning the Champions League? It's not happening.

    1) We're European Royalty, we've won more Champions Leagues/European Cups than Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester, Dirty Leeds, and Villa combined

    2) 2005 says hello, we won the Champions League with Djimi Traore, anything is possible with Liverpool, we can win it no centre backs in 2021.
    1) Dodgy sub-sample alert. Liverpool = 6; Man U + Notts Forest + Chelsea + Villa = 7
    I was talking about clubs currently in the PL.

    Plus you only call them Notts Forest if you hate them.

    It is Nottingham Forest and Notts County.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    edited February 2021

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    I still don't quite get where the "they opened up too quickly first time" line comes from.

    Unprepared for Autumn? Very much yes.

    Man has Callipo on Southend beach stories incoming for the next few months. HUZZAH.

    As I predicted a couple of weeks ago, people are making their own decisions. Lots of grandparents out with their children and grandchildren in Dorset today.

    With this, and the continuing good news from vaccine data, Govt are going to look terribly behind the curve soon.
    Which means they will be in the clear if things spike, as they won't have signalled a relaxation, but no one will really care if they were pessimistic if they are getting to do the things they want to do anyway (even if the rules say otherwise).
    Up to a point, Lord Copper.

    The slowness on opening up eg shops and beer gardens isn't going to go down well.

    I still think the poster who predicted a pre-polling day 'things are going great, lets open the beer gardens' move might be right. Can't remember who it was?
    Point of order: shops and outdoor booze both due to return on April 12th if the earliest exit dates are followed.
    6 weeks away....

    But yes, apologies, I meant 'lets upon the boozers'!

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    In Parliament against the sitting administration I assume? What difference would that make to anything? It'd split entirely along party lines so the First Minister would be rock solid safe with the support of the sock puppet Greens.

    Besides, we all know that Nicola Sturgeon is the Jacinda Ardern of Scotland. Her amazing not-quite-identical-to-Boris-Johnson Covid policies, coupled with daily looking very stern at press conferences for a year, means that her ratings are stratospheric. Just look at the most recent polling. The people love her.
    Just a bit less than they did last time they were asked.
    Net +32 more than six years since taking the reins is still very good going. She's even more beloved in Scotland than Saint Rishi of Richmondshire is in England.
    I don't disagree actually - you're the one that believes the SNP have not in their time attracted voters who are not fully signed up to indy in any significant numbers.

    I merely suggest all sentiment can go two ways
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236

    Floater said:

    It all makes sense now...

    Agent P is HYFUD

    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1366093024464412673

    The element of truth in all this is that with a non-Westminster sanctioned referendum (unless the legal position is clarified in the SNP’s favour) the union side has the option of campaigning to completely abstain.

    I think “refusing” a referendum is counterproductive and silly, but having done so the logical thing to do would to boycott any wildcat ones.
    i don't think trying to stuff Scotland's mouth with gold will work on its own; what is needed for a Unionist success would be a demonstrated better life through a different mode of relationship.

    They may come via a possible review and Royal Commission or whatever. If the current allegations turn out to be proven, then that could be the credible reason.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,080
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    Rawnsley described Scotland as a "cold weather Banana republic" this morning.
    Silly comment. Scotland can get quite warm in the summer.
    Bloody hell - not in any of my visits
    Floater, may I enquire how your good lady is, after her jab? I hope few or no problems.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    MattW said:

    TimT said:

    malcolmg said:
    Malcolm, would the committee actually need the permission of the Government to seek and obtain those records? If so, why?
    AIUI in law they don't, but the Parliament (with it's SNP Minority supported by Green partners) would be able to instruct the committee (I assume).

    Within the committee there was also an SNP/Green majority, but it is not so clear now as the Green MSP Andy Wight (Wright?) is now Independent following a minor outbreak of Trans Wars in presumably the Greens. He has imo been the third most incisive questioner after a Lab and a Tory.

    The whole Salmond's solicitor device is to get around various officials, Prosecution Authority, and Civil Service refusals to allow unredacted evidence to be used for the Committee Enquiry.

    The Scotland Act gives the UK Minister the power to Order Scottish Gov Ministers to do or not do things, in certain circumstances - which may allow it to be prevented without primary legislation at Westminster. I am not clear whether this particular set of circumstances is covered under this power, however, or whatever powers exist that may be applied.

    I think.

    HTH.
    Notwithstanding the terrible optics of the UK government telling the Scottish (or any devolved) government how to run its internal affairs.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    Rawnsley described Scotland as a "cold weather Banana republic" this morning.
    Silly comment. Scotland can get quite warm in the summer.
    Bloody hell - not in any of my visits
    Last time I went to Scotland I had a fortnight of truly gorgeous weather. Hot, sunny and dry.

    I noticed it particularly as I was on a cycling holiday and actually some cooler weather would have been welcome, particularly when doing the trails around Fort Augustus.
    When I was there for a fortnight I got quite sunburned. It pissed down on the drive home though, so no stop at Hadrians Wall. The highlands are spectacular in the sunshine.

    On the other hand, in my fortnight in RoI, we had only one dry day...
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    Rawnsley described Scotland as a "cold weather Banana republic" this morning.
    Silly comment. Scotland can get quite warm in the summer.
    Bloody hell - not in any of my visits
    Wifey managed to get heat stroke during the lochaber marathon. It is possible to have warm days north of the border, but rarely the overpowering heat of the Deep South (London).

    View from America: "the overpowering heat of the Deep South (London)" ROFLMAO
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    edited February 2021
    TimT said:

    MattW said:

    TimT said:

    malcolmg said:
    Malcolm, would the committee actually need the permission of the Government to seek and obtain those records? If so, why?
    AIUI in law they don't, but the Parliament (with it's SNP Minority supported by Green partners) would be able to instruct the committee (I assume).

    Within the committee there was also an SNP/Green majority, but it is not so clear now as the Green MSP Andy Wight (Wright?) is now Independent following a minor outbreak of Trans Wars in presumably the Greens. He has imo been the third most incisive questioner after a Lab and a Tory.

    The whole Salmond's solicitor device is to get around various officials, Prosecution Authority, and Civil Service refusals to allow unredacted evidence to be used for the Committee Enquiry.

    The Scotland Act gives the UK Minister the power to Order Scottish Gov Ministers to do or not do things, in certain circumstances - which may allow it to be prevented without primary legislation at Westminster. I am not clear whether this particular set of circumstances is covered under this power, however, or whatever powers exist that may be applied.

    I think.

    HTH.
    Notwithstanding the terrible optics of the UK government telling the Scottish (or any devolved) government how to run its internal affairs.
    Yes. That would be one of several nuclear-looking options, and would imo need a major meltdown to have happened in Holyrood.

    But OTOH that was the thrust of the question to Deputy Speaker Eleanor Laing at Westminster this week - the UK Govt *is* the ultimate guarantor.

    https://twitter.com/LiamFox/status/1364594153473134595
  • Leon said:

    Another quote from the AI philosopher

    https://twitter.com/bygpt3/status/1358985759718395904?s=21

    These are of a publishable standard. They are true, and meaningful, even profound. And a machine is making them up

    life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. it's about learning to dance in the rain.

    Is that really made up by a machine ?

    I've seen that saying on a calendar.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited February 2021

    Leon said:

    Another quote from the AI philosopher

    https://twitter.com/bygpt3/status/1358985759718395904?s=21

    These are of a publishable standard. They are true, and meaningful, even profound. And a machine is making them up

    life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. it's about learning to dance in the rain.

    Is that really made up by a machine ?

    I've seen that saying on a calendar.
    Google image search it, you will get 100s of hits for it on posters, cards etc.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    MattW said:

    TimT said:

    MattW said:

    TimT said:

    malcolmg said:
    Malcolm, would the committee actually need the permission of the Government to seek and obtain those records? If so, why?
    AIUI in law they don't, but the Parliament (with it's SNP Minority supported by Green partners) would be able to instruct the committee (I assume).

    Within the committee there was also an SNP/Green majority, but it is not so clear now as the Green MSP Andy Wight (Wright?) is now Independent following a minor outbreak of Trans Wars in presumably the Greens. He has imo been the third most incisive questioner after a Lab and a Tory.

    The whole Salmond's solicitor device is to get around various officials, Prosecution Authority, and Civil Service refusals to allow unredacted evidence to be used for the Committee Enquiry.

    The Scotland Act gives the UK Minister the power to Order Scottish Gov Ministers to do or not do things, in certain circumstances - which may allow it to be prevented without primary legislation at Westminster. I am not clear whether this particular set of circumstances is covered under this power, however, or whatever powers exist that may be applied.

    I think.

    HTH.
    Notwithstanding the terrible optics of the UK government telling the Scottish (or any devolved) government how to run its internal affairs.
    Yes. That would be one of several nuclear-looking options, and would imo need a major meltdown to have happened in Holyrood.

    But OTOH that was the thrust of the question to Deputy Speaker Eleanor Laing at Westminster this week - the UK Govt *is* the ultimate guarantor.

    https://twitter.com/LiamFox/status/1364594153473134595
    The ultimate power should not itself be controversial (except inasmuch as Sindy supporters wish it were not the case), but it's hard to see any devolved administration other than Northern Ireland getting to a point where even action was necessary, and that only because they periodically wet themselves over flags and the like (yes, important stuff too, whatever).
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    In Parliament against the sitting administration I assume? What difference would that make to anything? It'd split entirely along party lines so the First Minister would be rock solid safe with the support of the sock puppet Greens.

    Besides, we all know that Nicola Sturgeon is the Jacinda Ardern of Scotland. Her amazing not-quite-identical-to-Boris-Johnson Covid policies, coupled with daily looking very stern at press conferences for a year, means that her ratings are stratospheric. Just look at the most recent polling. The people love her.
    Just a bit less than they did last time they were asked.
    Net +32 more than six years since taking the reins is still very good going. She's even more beloved in Scotland than Saint Rishi of Richmondshire is in England.
    I don't disagree actually - you're the one that believes the SNP have not in their time attracted voters who are not fully signed up to indy in any significant numbers.

    I merely suggest all sentiment can go two ways
    The figures wobble around a little, but the party's (at around 50% of voting intention) are a good deal more stable even than those of the leader.

    Beyond which, as I said the other night, if you didn't want secession then why would you vote SNP? It's all they're really for, and if they're re-elected it'll be their primary aim in Government. It also sends a clear signal to the rest of the UK, i.e. we have had enough of you.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    I still don't quite get where the "they opened up too quickly first time" line comes from.

    Unprepared for Autumn? Very much yes.

    Man has Callipo on Southend beach stories incoming for the next few months. HUZZAH.

    As I predicted a couple of weeks ago, people are making their own decisions. Lots of grandparents out with their children and grandchildren in Dorset today.

    With this, and the continuing good news from vaccine data, Govt are going to look terribly behind the curve soon.
    Which means they will be in the clear if things spike, as they won't have signalled a relaxation, but no one will really care if they were pessimistic if they are getting to do the things they want to do anyway (even if the rules say otherwise).
    Up to a point, Lord Copper.
    Thank you to Google for helping me get this.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited February 2021
    Leon said:

    Another quote from the AI philosopher

    https://twitter.com/bygpt3/status/1358985759718395904?s=21

    These are of a publishable standard. They are true, and meaningful, even profound. And a machine is making them up

    life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. it's about learning to dance in the rain.

    That quote, beloved of cushions in Etsy stores, is by Vivian Greene, author, doll house expert, and widow of Graham. She passed away in 2003 and was not, so far as I am aware, artificially intelligent. American self help author
    http://www.viviangreene.com/
  • tlg86 said:

    Anyway, why is anyone worried about Liverpool winning the Champions League? It's not happening.

    1) We're European Royalty, we've won more Champions Leagues/European Cups than Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester, Dirty Leeds, and Villa combined

    2) 2005 says hello, we won the Champions League with Djimi Traore, anything is possible with Liverpool, we can win it no centre backs in 2021.
    1) Dodgy sub-sample alert. Liverpool = 6; Man U + Notts Forest + Chelsea + Villa = 7
    I was talking about clubs currently in the PL.

    Plus you only call them Notts Forest if you hate them.

    It is Nottingham Forest and Notts County.
    With the city team playing in the county and the county team playing in the city.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    TimT said:

    MattW said:

    TimT said:

    malcolmg said:
    Malcolm, would the committee actually need the permission of the Government to seek and obtain those records? If so, why?
    AIUI in law they don't, but the Parliament (with it's SNP Minority supported by Green partners) would be able to instruct the committee (I assume).

    Within the committee there was also an SNP/Green majority, but it is not so clear now as the Green MSP Andy Wight (Wright?) is now Independent following a minor outbreak of Trans Wars in presumably the Greens. He has imo been the third most incisive questioner after a Lab and a Tory.

    The whole Salmond's solicitor device is to get around various officials, Prosecution Authority, and Civil Service refusals to allow unredacted evidence to be used for the Committee Enquiry.

    The Scotland Act gives the UK Minister the power to Order Scottish Gov Ministers to do or not do things, in certain circumstances - which may allow it to be prevented without primary legislation at Westminster. I am not clear whether this particular set of circumstances is covered under this power, however, or whatever powers exist that may be applied.

    I think.

    HTH.
    Notwithstanding the terrible optics of the UK government telling the Scottish (or any devolved) government how to run its internal affairs.
    Yes. That would be one of several nuclear-looking options, and would imo need a major meltdown to have happened in Holyrood.

    But OTOH that was the thrust of the question to Deputy Speaker Eleanor Laing at Westminster this week - the UK Govt *is* the ultimate guarantor.

    https://twitter.com/LiamFox/status/1364594153473134595
    The ultimate power should not itself be controversial (except inasmuch as Sindy supporters wish it were not the case), but it's hard to see any devolved administration other than Northern Ireland getting to a point where even action was necessary, and that only because they periodically wet themselves over flags and the like (yes, important stuff too, whatever).
    The only answer to that is ... come back in a few weeks.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Absolutely ridiculous curtain twitchery beyond all comprehensive. Bloke talks to a couple of other cyclists in the street.


    F

    F

    S

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,672

    tlg86 said:

    Anyway, why is anyone worried about Liverpool winning the Champions League? It's not happening.

    1) We're European Royalty, we've won more Champions Leagues/European Cups than Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester, Dirty Leeds, and Villa combined

    2) 2005 says hello, we won the Champions League with Djimi Traore, anything is possible with Liverpool, we can win it no centre backs in 2021.
    1) Dodgy sub-sample alert. Liverpool = 6; Man U + Notts Forest + Chelsea + Villa = 7
    I was talking about clubs currently in the PL.

    Plus you only call them Notts Forest if you hate them.

    It is Nottingham Forest and Notts County.
    I may not be a Forest fan but at least I didn't redact them!
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Leon said:

    Another quote from the AI philosopher

    https://twitter.com/bygpt3/status/1358985759718395904?s=21

    These are of a publishable standard. They are true, and meaningful, even profound. And a machine is making them up

    life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. it's about learning to dance in the rain.

    Is that really made up by a machine ?

    I've seen that saying on a calendar.
    Apparently you can buy all sorts of stuff with this on, attributed to motivational speaker Vivian Greene

    https://www.passiton.com/inspirational-quotes/6501-life-isnt-about-waiting-for-the-storm-to-pass
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    The AI bot yesterday:

    A bayonet is a weapon with a worker at both ends.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,438
    TimT said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:
    I'm confused - why cannot whichever officials are supporting the committee make any redactions?
    It is a clusterfcuk of huge proportions, government being investigated by parliament but they insist they decide what evidence is made available to parliament. Banana republic does not cut it. More votes of No Confidence coming up I think.
    Rawnsley described Scotland as a "cold weather Banana republic" this morning.
    Silly comment. Scotland can get quite warm in the summer.
    Bloody hell - not in any of my visits
    Wifey managed to get heat stroke during the lochaber marathon. It is possible to have warm days north of the border, but rarely the overpowering heat of the Deep South (London).

    View from America: "the overpowering heat of the Deep South (London)" ROFLMAO
    It was tongue in cheek, for the most part, but there is something ghastly about a sticky hot, humid capital city day/night. Happily the Wiltshire heat rarely gets that bad...
    I also think that it is the exceptionality of weather that makes it stand out. Deep South heat in the deep southern states is to be expected. Southern England not so much...
  • DougSeal said:
    This made me realise I’d completely lost track of who was the SA President after Mbeki. That might be entirely my fault, but I’d like to think it’s also a lot less news coverage; hopefully because life is improving there.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Absolutely ridiculous curtain twitchery beyond all comprehensive. Bloke talks to a couple of other cyclists in the street.


    F

    F

    S

    But why is the Mayor wearing his regalia whilst cycling?

    Absolutely ridiculous curtain twitchery beyond all comprehensive. Bloke talks to a couple of other cyclists in the street.


    F

    F

    S

    Indeed. But why is the Mayor wearing his regalia whilst cycling?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    edited February 2021
    Holyrood vote of No Confidence in Deputy First Minister...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56231222
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,876
    MattW said:

    TimT said:

    malcolmg said:
    Malcolm, would the committee actually need the permission of the Government to seek and obtain those records? If so, why?
    AIUI in law they don't, but the Parliament (with it's SNP Minority supported by Green partners) would be able to instruct the committee (I assume).

    Within the committee there was also an SNP/Green majority, but it is not so clear now as the Green MSP Andy Wight (Wright?) is now Independent following a minor outbreak of Trans Wars in presumably the Greens. He has imo been the third most incisive questioner after a Lab and a Tory.

    The whole Salmond's solicitor device is to get around various officials, Prosecution Authority, and Civil Service refusals to allow unredacted evidence to be used for the Committee Enquiry.

    The Scotland Act gives the UK Minister the power to Order Scottish Gov Ministers to do or not do things, in certain circumstances - which may allow it to be prevented without primary legislation at Westminster. I am not clear whether this particular set of circumstances is covered under this power, however, or whatever powers exist that may be applied.

    I think.

    HTH.
    Wightman, actually, if I may.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19124337.andy-wightman-stand-independent-highlands-islands-list/
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822
    On thread - as someone who has never voted LD in my life, there is a lot in there I would support - privacy, free speech, liberty - but I'm not sure there's much in there that the Lib Dems would support.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,672

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anyway, why is anyone worried about Liverpool winning the Champions League? It's not happening.

    1) We're European Royalty, we've won more Champions Leagues/European Cups than Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester, Dirty Leeds, and Villa combined

    2) 2005 says hello, we won the Champions League with Djimi Traore, anything is possible with Liverpool, we can win it no centre backs.
    We won the World Cup in 1934, so there!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Highbury
    Genuine question, would you give up the 2004 Invincibles honour for say winning the 2006 Champions League?
    If you'd asked me on the morning of 3 April 2004 what the priorities were it was PL and CL.

    It was only a full time in the Liverpool game on 9 April (I was there) that it occurred to me that we could actually complete an unbeaten season. No one starts out trying to go unbeaten, but given how much it annoys certain people (cough Adrian Durham cough), it's something that I wouldn't give up readily.

    Actually, if I was going to swap it, it wouldn't be for the 2006 CL (as disappointing as it was not to win that). No, it would be the 2007-08 PL. Not getting over the line hurt so much. For me, that it peak Premier League. Man Utd and Chelsea were at their best, and we so nearly beat them. Had the Eduardo thing not happened, I reckon we'd have done it.
    I have to admit I wasn't really that fussed with Liverpool going unbeaten last season then we lost to Watford and it did really bug me, I think it would have festered for longer if the season hadn't been delayed.
    The thing is, it's only when you get close that it becomes tangible. We should have lost at Portsmouth in game 36 (Yakubu went through on goal and shot straight at Lehmann). And, of course, once you've done it, you don't want anyone else doing it so I go through the same thing every season of being desperate for the last team to lose.

    I think I've said it before, but I actually think the bigger achievement was the 2001-02 Arsenal side that scored in every game. Liverpool got to 44 unbeaten, just five behind the Invincibles. Liverpool got to 35 consecutive games scored in (tied with Man Utd c.2000). That's 20 behind the 2001-02 Arsenal side.
    One thing that made me glad we didn't go unbeaten was OilySailor on twitter pointed out that in the combined 147 seasons since Preston North End and Arsenal went unbeaten they had only won 1 title between them.

    #CursedInvincibles
    Never mind - only 29 seasons to go before you win the league again!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Absolutely ridiculous curtain twitchery beyond all comprehensive. Bloke talks to a couple of other cyclists in the street.


    F

    F

    S

    I saw that video earlier and just shrugged and moved on
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Another quote from the AI philosopher

    https://twitter.com/bygpt3/status/1358985759718395904?s=21

    These are of a publishable standard. They are true, and meaningful, even profound. And a machine is making them up

    life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. it's about learning to dance in the rain.

    That quote, beloved of cushions in Etsy stores, is by Vivian Greene, author, doll house expert, and widow of Graham. She passed away in 2003 and was not, so far as I am aware, artificially intelligent. American self help author
    http://www.viviangreene.com/
    'Immature AIs imitate; mature AIs steal...'
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,876
    MattW said:

    Holyrood vote of No Confidence in Deputy First Minister...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56231222

    Not really. Just a SCUP motion, like so often before. Not a vote, yet. And not even a motion yet, though I'm sure it will be left on the carpet in the debating chamber ere long.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Holyrood vote of No Confidence in Deputy First Minister...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56231222

    Not really. Just a SCUP motion, like so often before. Not a vote, yet. And not even a motion yet, though I'm sure it will be left on the carpet in the debating chamber ere long.
    Thank-you for filling in the gaps.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    DougSeal said:
    Beyond which, the death rate seems to be declining in a pretty constant fashion and shows no signs, so far, of starting to level off.

    Basically if deaths keep dropping at around 30% per week then the daily average should be down below 50 by the April 12 date slated for the shops, and in single figures by the May 17 date for indoor hospitality. You can understand why some people think that the Government will be under a lot of pressure to hurry up with unlocking by the time we've finished first jabs for the over 50s.

    As to whether ministers will give in or not - I would've thought they'd be wise to stick to the schedule they seem to have agreed with their scientific advisers, but I've no idea if they'll actually do it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,876
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    TimT said:

    malcolmg said:
    Malcolm, would the committee actually need the permission of the Government to seek and obtain those records? If so, why?
    AIUI in law they don't, but the Parliament (with it's SNP Minority supported by Green partners) would be able to instruct the committee (I assume).

    Within the committee there was also an SNP/Green majority, but it is not so clear now as the Green MSP Andy Wight (Wright?) is now Independent following a minor outbreak of Trans Wars in presumably the Greens. He has imo been the third most incisive questioner after a Lab and a Tory.

    The whole Salmond's solicitor device is to get around various officials, Prosecution Authority, and Civil Service refusals to allow unredacted evidence to be used for the Committee Enquiry.

    The Scotland Act gives the UK Minister the power to Order Scottish Gov Ministers to do or not do things, in certain circumstances - which may allow it to be prevented without primary legislation at Westminster. I am not clear whether this particular set of circumstances is covered under this power, however, or whatever powers exist that may be applied.

    I think.

    HTH.
    Wightman, actually, if I may.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19124337.andy-wightman-stand-independent-highlands-islands-list/
    PS I pointed this out earlier, but you might have missded it: quite interesting on (some of) the complications.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19123699.andrew-tickell-understanding-legalities-behind-holyrood-committee/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
  • Leon said:

    Another quote from the AI philosopher

    https://twitter.com/bygpt3/status/1358985759718395904?s=21

    These are of a publishable standard. They are true, and meaningful, even profound. And a machine is making them up

    life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. it's about learning to dance in the rain.

    Is that really made up by a machine ?

    I've seen that saying on a calendar.
    When life gives you lemons DESTROY ALL HUMANS
    Live, loath, snarl
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,672
    Nope. Never done that.
  • Coming late to the conversation as it has been far too nice a day to spend in front of the computer.

    But.. what a good thread header. Cracking first piece from Gardenwalker.

    I could buy into almost all of these.

    The only two I would outright oppose are UBI and Local Government PR.

    UBI I consider to be a subsidy on businesses who refuse to pay a reasonable wage. What the Government should be doing is increasing the minimum wage to a point where someone working a normal number of hours a week can afford to live without taxpayer handouts. If a company is not viable paying a reasonable living wage then it has no right being in business - at least not with the taxpayer subsidising its wage bill.

    PR I think is anti-democratic. I want to reduce the power of parties not increase it. Move to AV for all Local elections - actually for all elections. That is fine. But nothing that makes votes proportional for parties. Obviously my personal opinion but then most of what everyone says on here is just that.

    The only other item I would have any issue with is getting rid of fees for tertiary education. I would agree but I think this has to be combined with a massive reduction in the number of students going to university. The 50% or more aim is just stupid and has come at the cost of all the other possible - and mostly better - routes from secondary education to employment. The 'business' model for tertiary education is a failure and we need a complete rethink.

    The rest of your manifesto is definitely one I could vote for.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Well if I had one I might. The plebs would need to know.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    I still don't quite get where the "they opened up too quickly first time" line comes from.

    Unprepared for Autumn? Very much yes.

    Man has Callipo on Southend beach stories incoming for the next few months. HUZZAH.

    As I predicted a couple of weeks ago, people are making their own decisions. Lots of grandparents out with their children and grandchildren in Dorset today.

    With this, and the continuing good news from vaccine data, Govt are going to look terribly behind the curve soon.
    Which means they will be in the clear if things spike, as they won't have signalled a relaxation, but no one will really care if they were pessimistic if they are getting to do the things they want to do anyway (even if the rules say otherwise).
    Exactly. The household mixing rules are unimportant. It's just about when things open.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    My Dad only wore his at official functions.
  • Leon said:

    Another quote from the AI philosopher

    https://twitter.com/bygpt3/status/1358985759718395904?s=21

    These are of a publishable standard. They are true, and meaningful, even profound. And a machine is making them up

    life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. it's about learning to dance in the rain.

    Is that really made up by a machine ?

    I've seen that saying on a calendar.
    According to the internet it is a quote from the American author Vivian Greene. But that doesn't mean it is correct.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    This is a minor point, but just to say that legalising cannabis is already LD party policy.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2019-11-20/jo-swinson-liberal-democrat-policy-to-legalise-cannabis-will-reduce-crime-and-increase-revenue
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited February 2021
    Guardian has decided Dishy Rishi budget is a disaster...I obviously missed his announcement today, funny day, Sunday to do it.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1366129945756467201?s=20
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    Pulpstar said:

    My Dad only wore his at official functions.
    Mayor of Cap D'Agde ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Guardian has decided Dishy Rishi budget is a disaster...I obviously missed his announcement today, funny day, Sunday to do it.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1366129945756467201?s=20

    Curious line in there.

    It is progressive to raise taxes on the wealthy or on excess business profits because it makes for a fairer society. But it is not progressive to do so to 'balance the books'.


    I don't quite follow this. If the same policy is enacted is the motivation hugely significant? I suppose means any windfall would not be adequately targeted in that scenario?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,672

    Guardian has decided Dishy Rishi budget is a disaster...I obviously missed his announcement today, funny day, Sunday to do it.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1366129945756467201?s=20

    That's a silly post FU. The Graun is taking issue with the Tory government's stated intentions, not with Sunak's yet to be announced budget.

    Seems like fair game to me.
  • Guardian has decided Dishy Rishi budget is a disaster...I obviously missed his announcement today, funny day, Sunday to do it.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1366129945756467201?s=20

    That's a silly post FU. The Graun is taking issue with the Tory government's stated intentions, not with Sunak's yet to be announced budget.

    Seems like fair game to me.
    Might be better to wait a few days for the actual budget and details
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited February 2021
    Nice one Gardenwalker.

    I don't know about scrapping the TV license though. I have never owned a tele and as a consequence am bombarded by cycles of toothless crescendos of threatening an somewhat insulting letters that I might well be a dishonest person and suffer terrible consequences. The upshot might be that should the license be abandoned some posties might lose their jobs.
  • kle4 said:

    Guardian has decided Dishy Rishi budget is a disaster...I obviously missed his announcement today, funny day, Sunday to do it.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1366129945756467201?s=20

    Curious line in there.

    It is progressive to raise taxes on the wealthy or on excess business profits because it makes for a fairer society. But it is not progressive to do so to 'balance the books'.


    I don't quite follow this. If the same policy is enacted is the motivation hugely significant? I suppose means any windfall would not be adequately targeted in that scenario?
    Its completely illiterate nonsense from the Grauniad.

    I disagree with the idea of taxes now because I think that we're still in the recession, wait a year or two then do it if needed. But to 'balance the books' is progressive - running a deficit is burdening the young and future generations with the obligations of the present.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited February 2021
    I am sure the UK will happily have them....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1366137332697595913?s=20
  • I believe Orange Man is about to have a rant at CPAC.
  • I am sure the UK will happily have them....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1366137332697595913?s=20

    UVDL, Merkel and Macron should hang their heads in shame
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:
    Beyond which, the death rate seems to be declining in a pretty constant fashion and shows no signs, so far, of starting to level off.

    Basically if deaths keep dropping at around 30% per week then the daily average should be down below 50 by the April 12 date slated for the shops, and in single figures by the May 17 date for indoor hospitality. You can understand why some people think that the Government will be under a lot of pressure to hurry up with unlocking by the time we've finished first jabs for the over 50s.

    As to whether ministers will give in or not - I would've thought they'd be wise to stick to the schedule they seem to have agreed with their scientific advisers, but I've no idea if they'll actually do it.
    I don’t think there will be much pressure, save from the usual backbench suspects, to accelerate this. People are scared and do not, in the main, want to come out. Being vaccinated will change that but in a best case scenario that won’t happen for everyone until end May.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    I am sure the UK will happily have them....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1366137332697595913?s=20

    In all seriousness we don’t really need them, we have an AZN supplier onshore, and they should be sent to countries that do.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Leon said:

    Another quote from the AI philosopher

    https://twitter.com/bygpt3/status/1358985759718395904?s=21

    These are of a publishable standard. They are true, and meaningful, even profound. And a machine is making them up

    life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. it's about learning to dance in the rain.

    Is that really made up by a machine ?

    I've seen that saying on a calendar.
    According to the internet it is a quote from the American author Vivian Greene. But that doesn't mean it is correct.
    Maybe Vivian Greene is the public persona of an AI?
  • I believe Orange Man is about to have a rant at CPAC.

    https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/1366137159678263298
  • DougSeal said:

    I am sure the UK will happily have them....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1366137332697595913?s=20

    In all seriousness we don’t really need them, we have an AZN supplier onshore, and they should be sent to countries that do.
    We don't need them, but if we got them then they'd actually be used.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    edited February 2021
    Macho Man..
    Gloria now.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    edited February 2021
    That AI plagiarised Vivian Green quote seems pretty dangerous in current circs.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Apologies. But wouldn't opening the pubs the day before polling day be somewhat self-defeating?
    Since anyone super grateful would spend the day, er, ...in the pub.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    DougSeal said:

    I am sure the UK will happily have them....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1366137332697595913?s=20

    In all seriousness we don’t really need them, we have an AZN supplier onshore, and they should be sent to countries that do.
    Indeed. Shameful stuff. They could have simply defended themselves on the basis of regulator decision caution, but because of politics decided to undermine the vaccine and vaccine manufacturers themselves. Such short term thinking - I can only assume they figured it would not matter that much as other vaccines will indeed be coming in large numbers, but it still means needless negative impact.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:
    Beyond which, the death rate seems to be declining in a pretty constant fashion and shows no signs, so far, of starting to level off.

    Basically if deaths keep dropping at around 30% per week then the daily average should be down below 50 by the April 12 date slated for the shops, and in single figures by the May 17 date for indoor hospitality. You can understand why some people think that the Government will be under a lot of pressure to hurry up with unlocking by the time we've finished first jabs for the over 50s.

    As to whether ministers will give in or not - I would've thought they'd be wise to stick to the schedule they seem to have agreed with their scientific advisers, but I've no idea if they'll actually do it.
    I don’t think there will be much pressure, save from the usual backbench suspects, to accelerate this. People are scared and do not, in the main, want to come out. Being vaccinated will change that but in a best case scenario that won’t happen for everyone until end May.
    I'm not so sure that that's true. A lot of the olds will feel at much lower risk, if not invulnerable, once the vaccines have kicked in (and the vast bulk of the over 65s have already been offered it even now.) A lot of the youngsters also feel at low risk or essentially invulnerable and will already be out and about, or certainly wanting to be released once the olds have been jabbed.

    I'm a relatively cautious fortysomething - I don't really want to be taking too many risks until I've had my first shot and waited the necessary three weeks after it - but even I won't feel particularly nervous about al fresco dining once it becomes available. I already have to go out to work every day and go to the supermarket. Sitting at a table outdoors isn't that big a deal.

    In short, I think most people will wear the lockdown as a necessary evil, but that won't stop it from fraying around the edges (e.g. through a lot of forbidden reunions with older relatives) and nor will it stop a lot of them from complaining that it's not being relaxed quickly enough.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    Another quote from the AI philosopher

    https://twitter.com/bygpt3/status/1358985759718395904?s=21

    These are of a publishable standard. They are true, and meaningful, even profound. And a machine is making them up

    life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. it's about learning to dance in the rain.

    Is that really made up by a machine ?

    I've seen that saying on a calendar.
    Google image search it, you will get 100s of hits for it on posters, cards etc.
    The point is, I think, that the computer comes up with these itself. Unprompted. Even if they have been written before

    And plenty of these philosophical insights ARE entirely original

    “The mind is the universe’s dream of itself”

    “The art of perceiving time is a form of divination”

    The second one is brilliant. Poetic and true at the same time
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,083
    edited February 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Another quote from the AI philosopher

    https://twitter.com/bygpt3/status/1358985759718395904?s=21

    These are of a publishable standard. They are true, and meaningful, even profound. And a machine is making them up

    life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. it's about learning to dance in the rain.

    Is that really made up by a machine ?

    I've seen that saying on a calendar.
    Google image search it, you will get 100s of hits for it on posters, cards etc.
    The point is, I think, that the computer comes up with these itself. Unprompted. Even if they have been written before

    And plenty of these philosophical insights ARE entirely original

    “The mind is the universe’s dream of itself”

    “The art of perceiving time is a form of divination”

    The second one is brilliant. Poetic and true at the same time
    I don't think it has come up with it unprompted....GPT3 was trained on huge amounts of the internet, which this is in the "inspirational quotes" field. Its just picked an example from something it has seen before.
  • The FR/DE/EU vaccination policy/strategy must be the biggest public policy failure in god knows how many years.

    Not a single head has rolled as far as I know.
This discussion has been closed.