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You can get evens that Biden’s approval will still be in the 50-54.9 range after 100 days – politica

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  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    You've been working for the wrong companies.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    This year is peak population year for Germany according to this page.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/DEU/germany/population-growth-rate

    Could be the same for the UK. We've lost 500,000 overseas residents, at least, thanks to Covid. Are they coming back?

    And the birth rate might be crushed by the virus - as it has been in Italy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/26/covid-and-climate-of-fear-puts-italian-birth-rate-at-lowest-since-unification

    Add in 150,000 dead of the bug, and a knackered economy making people migrate.....

    It is quite possible the UK's population will sharply decline from here, at least for a while.
    Some still seem to be expecting a baby boom which will start impacting schools in a few years though.
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    This year is peak population year for Germany according to this page.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/DEU/germany/population-growth-rate

    Could be the same for the UK. We've lost 500,000 overseas residents, at least, thanks to Covid. Are they coming back?

    And the birth rate might be crushed by the virus - as it has been in Italy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/26/covid-and-climate-of-fear-puts-italian-birth-rate-at-lowest-since-unification

    Add in 150,000 dead of the bug, and a knackered economy making people migrate.....

    It is quite possible the UK's population will sharply decline from here, at least for a while.
    Some still seem to be expecting a baby boom which will start impacting schools in a few years though.
    We may get one after this is over.
    At no time in the past 12 months have I thought this would all be so much easier with a new born baby...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    glw said:

    Surely the only way the Saffers and Indians could have had a great deal more natural immunity pre-vaccine is by exposure.

    Or sickness and death on a huge scale, as it is otherwise known.

    South Africa's excess deaths for the last year dwarf the deaths attributed to COVID-19, running at about 3 times the official numbers. So yes South Africa almost certainly has had death on a huge scale, despite a much younger population than us.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-55674139
    Yet still muppets continue to share "league tables" by attributed deaths as if they're the gospel truth and its appropriate to pointscore.
    Thats because they want to say something now when in reality the only thing that matters is excess deaths when we are in a position to look at those figures in a couple of years time.

    Not that I suspect even that will work as other sleights of hand may be used (see for example 150,000 fewer pensions being paid in Hubei‎ yet that not being mentioned in other reports).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    This year is peak population year for Germany according to this page.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/DEU/germany/population-growth-rate

    Could be the same for the UK. We've lost 500,000 overseas residents, at least, thanks to Covid. Are they coming back?

    And the birth rate might be crushed by the virus - as it has been in Italy.
    Isn't that because couples/husbands & wives now hate each other after living together 24x7 for the past year?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    This year is peak population year for Germany according to this page.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/DEU/germany/population-growth-rate

    Could be the same for the UK. We've lost 500,000 overseas residents, at least, thanks to Covid. Are they coming back?

    And the birth rate might be crushed by the virus - as it has been in Italy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/26/covid-and-climate-of-fear-puts-italian-birth-rate-at-lowest-since-unification

    Add in 150,000 dead of the bug, and a knackered economy making people migrate.....

    It is quite possible the UK's population will sharply decline from here, at least for a while.
    Some still seem to be expecting a baby boom which will start impacting schools in a few years though.
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    This year is peak population year for Germany according to this page.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/DEU/germany/population-growth-rate

    Could be the same for the UK. We've lost 500,000 overseas residents, at least, thanks to Covid. Are they coming back?

    And the birth rate might be crushed by the virus - as it has been in Italy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/26/covid-and-climate-of-fear-puts-italian-birth-rate-at-lowest-since-unification

    Add in 150,000 dead of the bug, and a knackered economy making people migrate.....

    It is quite possible the UK's population will sharply decline from here, at least for a while.
    Some still seem to be expecting a baby boom which will start impacting schools in a few years though.
    We may get one after this is over.
    At no time in the past 12 months have I thought this would all be so much easier with a new born baby...
    Would it have been much worse tho? The first 12 months of a newborn are a sleepless nightmare when you never go out or see friends, and often sink into depression.

    That is to say, identical to Covid. New parents will barely have noticed the plague
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,752
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    One thing that's been interesting for us is that our team (research centre) works across two buildings (not far from each other, five minutes' walk, university campus) because we're drawn from two departments. We had monthly meetings that everyone attended, as far as possible, but in the little meetings, cups of tea, corridor chats I mostly only saw the people from our department. Since everyone's been working from home, we've had meetings and virtual coffee etc for everyone, with the result that I now feel much more connected to the people in the other department than I did before.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    This year is peak population year for Germany according to this page.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/DEU/germany/population-growth-rate

    Could be the same for the UK. We've lost 500,000 overseas residents, at least, thanks to Covid. Are they coming back?

    And the birth rate might be crushed by the virus - as it has been in Italy.
    Isn't that because couples/husbands & wives now hate each other after living together 24x7 for the past year?
    That is, indeed, one of the theories. A few couples I know suggest it might be right
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Not quite reproducing the blubbery, scalded pork thing imo

    https://twitter.com/skytv/status/1364902717395775488?s=20

    I do hope this will be warts and all.

    If the public see Johnson, warts and all, they'll be repelled.
    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.
    Jesus, Max, I'd hate to see you fillet a fish - that was quite the brutal deboning.
    That's what Fortis Green does to a person. They get lively.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350
    DavidL said:

    Yet more nonsense. Sturgeon denies that the name of one of the complainers was given to Geoff Aberdein in the run up to the meeting on 2nd April. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56198840

    This is the same Geoff Aberdein who @sarissa told us was not going to be a witness and whose statement has been objected to by Crown Office (again) and will not officially be before the Committee.

    So this is another allegation of lying which the Committee and Mr Hamilton (the independent investigator in respect of the Ministerial code) will simply not be able to reach a view on because the relevant evidence is not before them.

    But its ok because Nicola is willing to answer questions on it and that is the most we can apparently hope for. Jeez.

    Unless someone wants to claim this reward....
    £25,000 Reward Offered for Copy of Geoff Aberdein Testimony
    This website is offering a reward of £25,000 cash to help a public spirited whistleblower to come forward and reveal a copy of Geoff Aberdein’s evidence to the Sturgeon Inquiry, which the Committee of Crooks has refused to publish, accept or consider, because it categorically proves that Sturgeon lied to Parliament.
    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/02/25000-reward-offered-for-copy-of-geoff-aberdein-testimony/
  • kle4 said:

    glw said:

    Surely the only way the Saffers and Indians could have had a great deal more natural immunity pre-vaccine is by exposure.

    Or sickness and death on a huge scale, as it is otherwise known.

    South Africa's excess deaths for the last year dwarf the deaths attributed to COVID-19, running at about 3 times the official numbers. So yes South Africa almost certainly has had death on a huge scale, despite a much younger population than us.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-55674139
    Yet still muppets continue to share "league tables" by attributed deaths as if they're the gospel truth and its appropriate to pointscore.
    Is anyone league tabling excess deaths?
    Tough to do given differing amounts of data per nation but the Economist do good charts per nation.
    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

    Though I don't see (may be missing it) a way to get a cumulative total from those charts instead of a weekly total?

    From the text, Russia is now up to 370k excess deaths versus an official death toll of 56k. So their excess deaths per capita are more than double our excess deaths per capita - and their data only goes to December too. 😲😷
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Not quite reproducing the blubbery, scalded pork thing imo

    https://twitter.com/skytv/status/1364902717395775488?s=20

    I do hope this will be warts and all.

    If the public see Johnson, warts and all, they'll be repelled.
    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.
    Jesus, Max, I'd hate to see you fillet a fish - that was quite the brutal deboning.
    That's what Fortis Green does to a person. They get lively.
    Back in a Tory constituency, it changes one's outlook.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited February 2021
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    This year is peak population year for Germany according to this page.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/DEU/germany/population-growth-rate

    Could be the same for the UK. We've lost 500,000 overseas residents, at least, thanks to Covid. Are they coming back?

    And the birth rate might be crushed by the virus - as it has been in Italy.
    Isn't that because couples/husbands & wives now hate each other after living together 24x7 for the past year?
    That is, indeed, one of the theories. A few couples I know suggest it might be right
    I know of two divorces.

    And while we're on Covid stuff - I also know of two suicides over the past two months. Or rather, there have been two suicides in my larger circle of association (ie they weren't friends). One had on and off mental health issues for some time, was around 40yrs old; the other a 23yr old seeming as happy as you could imagine.

    If I know of two suicides now, god only knows a) how many are on the edge or have thought about it; and b) how many elsewhere.

    Is why I have long been wary of the "lock us up until further notice/why is that person talking to that other person" crowd.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    This year is peak population year for Germany according to this page.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/DEU/germany/population-growth-rate

    Could be the same for the UK. We've lost 500,000 overseas residents, at least, thanks to Covid. Are they coming back?

    And the birth rate might be crushed by the virus - as it has been in Italy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/26/covid-and-climate-of-fear-puts-italian-birth-rate-at-lowest-since-unification

    Add in 150,000 dead of the bug, and a knackered economy making people migrate.....

    It is quite possible the UK's population will sharply decline from here, at least for a while.
    Some still seem to be expecting a baby boom which will start impacting schools in a few years though.
    I've advised my wife to buy stocks for baby product companies on that basis.

    I seriously doubt that COVID will have that great an impact on the long term trajectory of the UK population. For all that COVID is bad, it is not the Black Death.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    You've been working for the wrong companies.
    Or maybe I am just one of those people who has a perfectly adequate social life and don't need to socialise with random work colleagues?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    This year is peak population year for Germany according to this page.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/DEU/germany/population-growth-rate

    Could be the same for the UK. We've lost 500,000 overseas residents, at least, thanks to Covid. Are they coming back?

    And the birth rate might be crushed by the virus - as it has been in Italy.
    Isn't that because couples/husbands & wives now hate each other after living together 24x7 for the past year?
    That is, indeed, one of the theories. A few couples I know suggest it might be right
    I am in the fortunate position where my wife has gone to look after a house that some friends have been unable to visit since before Christmas. Alone, she is writing there and bringing it back to life for when they can return.

    We have been together 28 years and had lengthy periods during that when we have spent weeks, even months at a time apart with work. This past year we have not spent a night apart. We have survived it surprisingly well, but man alive am I enjoying a few days when I can do exactly as I like, when I like. This is what "normal" was - and I really like it!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    This year is peak population year for Germany according to this page.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/DEU/germany/population-growth-rate

    Could be the same for the UK. We've lost 500,000 overseas residents, at least, thanks to Covid. Are they coming back?

    And the birth rate might be crushed by the virus - as it has been in Italy.
    Isn't that because couples/husbands & wives now hate each other after living together 24x7 for the past year?
    That is, indeed, one of the theories. A few couples I know suggest it might be right
    I know of two divorces.

    And while we're on Covid stuff - I also know of two suicides over the past two months. Or rather, there have been two suicides in my larger circle of association (ie they weren't friends). One had on and off mental health issues for some time, was around 40yrs old; the other a 23yr old seeming as happy as you could imagine.

    If I know of two suicides now, god only knows a) how many are on the edge or have thought about it; and b) how many elsewhere.

    Is why I have long been wary of the "lock us up until further notice/why is that person talking to that other person" crowd.
    That's sad. Sympathies. Suicide is the worst

    As I have said before, I know, very well, a 14 year old who made a suicide bid recently. I can well believe there are millions suffering, mentally; I've had a few wobbles myself
  • Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    You've been working for the wrong companies.
    Or maybe I am just one of those people who has a perfectly adequate social life and don't need to socialise with random work colleagues?
    I think the distinction between city dwellers and more suburban people is the biggest difference.

    If you're driving home then after work drinks are not a good option. The overwhelming majority of the country drives home, but those who don't seem to view their choices as the mainstream.

    If you drink and drive you're a bloody idiot.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Yet more nonsense. Sturgeon denies that the name of one of the complainers was given to Geoff Aberdein in the run up to the meeting on 2nd April. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56198840

    This is the same Geoff Aberdein who @sarissa told us was not going to be a witness and whose statement has been objected to by Crown Office (again) and will not officially be before the Committee.

    So this is another allegation of lying which the Committee and Mr Hamilton (the independent investigator in respect of the Ministerial code) will simply not be able to reach a view on because the relevant evidence is not before them.

    But its ok because Nicola is willing to answer questions on it and that is the most we can apparently hope for. Jeez.

    Unless someone wants to claim this reward....
    £25,000 Reward Offered for Copy of Geoff Aberdein Testimony
    This website is offering a reward of £25,000 cash to help a public spirited whistleblower to come forward and reveal a copy of Geoff Aberdein’s evidence to the Sturgeon Inquiry, which the Committee of Crooks has refused to publish, accept or consider, because it categorically proves that Sturgeon lied to Parliament.
    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/02/25000-reward-offered-for-copy-of-geoff-aberdein-testimony/
    That's very generous of you malcy! 😉
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    Yup, every night of the week bar Mondays.

    Tuesday was always my favourite night for post-work pints.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    You've been working for the wrong companies.
    Or maybe I am just one of those people who has a perfectly adequate social life and don't need to socialise with random work colleagues?
    I think the distinction between city dwellers and more suburban people is the biggest difference.

    If you're driving home then after work drinks are not a good option. The overwhelming majority of the country drives home, but those who don't seem to view their choices as the mainstream.

    If you drink and drive you're a bloody idiot.
    You could have a soft drink, of course. Lime and soda is nice and cheap (albeit they still rip you off something chronic) and doesn’t impair your ability to drive.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Not quite reproducing the blubbery, scalded pork thing imo

    https://twitter.com/skytv/status/1364902717395775488?s=20

    I do hope this will be warts and all.

    If the public see Johnson, warts and all, they'll be repelled.
    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.
    Probably. But I don’t want to see any airbrushing of Johnson's many unsavoury characteristics. If they're going to portray him it ought to be authentic not a load of old caricatured "oh er missus" tosh. So long as they do that I'll be happy. Then it's up to the public.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    You've been working for the wrong companies.
    Or maybe I am just one of those people who has a perfectly adequate social life and don't need to socialise with random work colleagues?
    I'm sure they think well of you also.

    Actually at my office they did go out for team drinks, the youngsters, quite regularly. I always declined to go unless it was a leaving do. They soon got used to the fact that I was the grumpy, ahem, old git.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited February 2021
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    Yes there'll be people commuting 1-2 to get to Manchester and other cities, especially if travelling at rush hour. 30 minutes doesn't get you very far at rush hour.

    Plus not everyone will have their work and home as close to each other as possible.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    You've been working for the wrong companies.
    Or maybe I am just one of those people who has a perfectly adequate social life and don't need to socialise with random work colleagues?
    I think the distinction between city dwellers and more suburban people is the biggest difference.

    If you're driving home then after work drinks are not a good option. The overwhelming majority of the country drives home, but those who don't seem to view their choices as the mainstream.

    If you drink and drive you're a bloody idiot.
    You could have a soft drink, of course. Lime and soda is nice and cheap (albeit they still rip you off something chronic) and doesn’t impair your ability to drive.
    Try an evening or ten on it, as a designated driver....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    I knew somebody who commuted from Coventry to Gloucester.

    Also from Stroud to Cannock.

    Both of those paled in comparison to the lecturer at Aber who commuted in from Worcester.

    In all those cases, family ties were in one place and the job in another.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Are Brexiteers prepared to watch Macron or Merkel celebrate a German or French Euro 2021 victory at Wembley? ;)

    No problem, providing they don’t think themselves to be above ten days’ quarantine beforehand.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    You've been working for the wrong companies.
    Or maybe I am just one of those people who has a perfectly adequate social life and don't need to socialise with random work colleagues?
    I think the distinction between city dwellers and more suburban people is the biggest difference.

    If you're driving home then after work drinks are not a good option. The overwhelming majority of the country drives home, but those who don't seem to view their choices as the mainstream.

    If you drink and drive you're a bloody idiot.
    You could have a soft drink, of course. Lime and soda is nice and cheap (albeit they still rip you off something chronic) and doesn’t impair your ability to drive.
    Try an evening or ten on it, as a designated driver....
    I already have...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Prof Devi Sridhar seems absolutely obsessed with elimination idea.

    But I don't understand either how it could work with an open economy with lots of movement, or why it would even be desired in a post vaccination world given the isolation, costs and risks associated with such a policy.

    New Zealand going isolationist and closing to the world until they get vaccinated makes sense.

    Scotland going isolationist and closing to the world after they get vaccinated makes no sense whatsoever.
    This is the final, hilariously self-unaware tweet of her rant response:

    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364888934975684609?s=20
    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364875159891554311?s=19

    This goes to what I said, buying time with no tolerance can make sense to get to the point of vaccines being available. But she's still advocating post vaccination zero tolerance. That's madness.

    PS it's possible the UK and Israel being first nations vaccinated will begin economic recovery quicker than other nations staying shut down.
    Its almost like Sridhar, and Michie, and a few others, have another agenda.
    In one company I worked at, IT security had a mandate to *anything* to prevent data breaches. Awesome, right?

    Well, it turned out that one of their policies would mean (effectively) shutting down external access. All external access. In a customer facing web based company. Yes, their policy/mandate meant that the company couldn't do business.....

    The mandate was amended....
    LOL. That’s a great way to be fired as an IT director. You’re supposed to work *with* the business, not against it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    This year is peak population year for Germany according to this page.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/DEU/germany/population-growth-rate

    Could be the same for the UK. We've lost 500,000 overseas residents, at least, thanks to Covid. Are they coming back?

    And the birth rate might be crushed by the virus - as it has been in Italy.
    Isn't that because couples/husbands & wives now hate each other after living together 24x7 for the past year?
    That is, indeed, one of the theories. A few couples I know suggest it might be right
    I am in the fortunate position where my wife has gone to look after a house that some friends have been unable to visit since before Christmas. Alone, she is writing there and bringing it back to life for when they can return.

    We have been together 28 years and had lengthy periods during that when we have spent weeks, even months at a time apart with work. This past year we have not spent a night apart. We have survived it surprisingly well, but man alive am I enjoying a few days when I can do exactly as I like, when I like. This is what "normal" was - and I really like it!
    Yes.

    A happily married friend of mine (in his 40s) was going slowly insane, locked in a two bed flat with his wife and teen daughter, 24/7. Wife lost her job early on in the Rona, so was at home all the time, for the first time ever, he is a freelancer so works from home anyway.

    He was inches from divorce... when she at last got a new job, meaning she's out of the house most of the day, 5 days a week. Marriage saved. But it was close
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    People commute in very odd ways sometimes. I knew people who commuted 2 hours from Wales to get to Salisbury.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    Sandpit said:

    Are Brexiteers prepared to watch Macron or Merkel celebrate a German or French Euro 2021 victory at Wembley? ;)

    No problem, providing they don’t think themselves to be above ten days’ quarantine beforehand.
    They have to take AZN first, of course.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Sandpit said:

    Are Brexiteers prepared to watch Macron or Merkel celebrate a German or French Euro 2021 victory at Wembley? ;)

    No problem, providing they don’t think themselves to be above ten days’ quarantine beforehand.
    They have to take AZN first, of course.
    I’ll pay Merkel’s umpteen thousand euro fine for queue jumping if they do that and broadcast it live.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    People commute in very odd ways sometimes. I knew people who commuted 2 hours from Wales to get to Salisbury.
    Clearly the road system in the UK is too good if people are doing that. Dig up some of the lanes and plant them with meadow flowers.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    People commute in very odd ways sometimes. I knew people who commuted 2 hours from Wales to get to Salisbury.
    I knew I guy who commuted from Scotland to London and another who commuted in his own plane to Chatham
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    Yes there'll be people commuting 1-2 to get to Manchester and other cities, especially if travelling at rush hour. 30 minutes doesn't get you very far at rush hour.

    Plus not everyone will have their work and home as close to each other as possible.
    Driving four hours a day to work in..... Manchester.

    There is no limit to human suffering.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    You've been working for the wrong companies.
    Or maybe I am just one of those people who has a perfectly adequate social life and don't need to socialise with random work colleagues?
    I think the distinction between city dwellers and more suburban people is the biggest difference.

    If you're driving home then after work drinks are not a good option. The overwhelming majority of the country drives home, but those who don't seem to view their choices as the mainstream.

    If you drink and drive you're a bloody idiot.
    You could have a soft drink, of course. Lime and soda is nice and cheap (albeit they still rip you off something chronic) and doesn’t impair your ability to drive.
    A lot of people rapidly lose interest if they cannot have an alcoholic drink.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited February 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Prof Devi Sridhar seems absolutely obsessed with elimination idea.

    But I don't understand either how it could work with an open economy with lots of movement, or why it would even be desired in a post vaccination world given the isolation, costs and risks associated with such a policy.

    New Zealand going isolationist and closing to the world until they get vaccinated makes sense.

    Scotland going isolationist and closing to the world after they get vaccinated makes no sense whatsoever.
    This is the final, hilariously self-unaware tweet of her rant response:

    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364888934975684609?s=20
    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364875159891554311?s=19

    This goes to what I said, buying time with no tolerance can make sense to get to the point of vaccines being available. But she's still advocating post vaccination zero tolerance. That's madness.

    PS it's possible the UK and Israel being first nations vaccinated will begin economic recovery quicker than other nations staying shut down.
    Its almost like Sridhar, and Michie, and a few others, have another agenda.
    In one company I worked at, IT security had a mandate to *anything* to prevent data breaches. Awesome, right?

    Well, it turned out that one of their policies would mean (effectively) shutting down external access. All external access. In a customer facing web based company. Yes, their policy/mandate meant that the company couldn't do business.....

    The mandate was amended....
    LOL. That’s a great way to be fired as an IT director. You’re supposed to work *with* the business, not against it.
    Same with safety. The object is to make the product/deliver the service safely and securely, not to be as safe and secure as possible, because the safest and securest is generally to do no business.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    TimT said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    People commute in very odd ways sometimes. I knew people who commuted 2 hours from Wales to get to Salisbury.
    Clearly the road system in the UK is too good if people are doing that. Dig up some of the lanes and plant them with meadow flowers.
    Alas, it was by train. Given the roads you'll make it in an hour within Wiltshire if you're lucky, trying for peak work times.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Not quite reproducing the blubbery, scalded pork thing imo

    https://twitter.com/skytv/status/1364902717395775488?s=20

    I do hope this will be warts and all.

    If the public see Johnson, warts and all, they'll be repelled.
    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.
    Jesus, Max, I'd hate to see you fillet a fish - that was quite the brutal deboning.
    That's what Fortis Green does to a person. They get lively.
    Fortis by name, fortis by nature.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    You've been working for the wrong companies.
    Or maybe I am just one of those people who has a perfectly adequate social life and don't need to socialise with random work colleagues?
    I think the distinction between city dwellers and more suburban people is the biggest difference.

    If you're driving home then after work drinks are not a good option. The overwhelming majority of the country drives home, but those who don't seem to view their choices as the mainstream.

    If you drink and drive you're a bloody idiot.
    You sometimes risk a shandy, though, as I recall. A shandy and then you get behind the wheel.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    Yes there'll be people commuting 1-2 to get to Manchester and other cities, especially if travelling at rush hour. 30 minutes doesn't get you very far at rush hour.

    Plus not everyone will have their work and home as close to each other as possible.
    Driving four hours a day to work in..... Manchester.

    There is no limit to human suffering.
    Could be worse. Imagine commuting four hours a day to work in London.

    *Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    People commute in very odd ways sometimes. I knew people who commuted 2 hours from Wales to get to Salisbury.
    I knew I guy who commuted from Scotland to London and another who commuted in his own plane to Chatham
    Is that Chatham in Trinidad?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    That is just your londophilia talks personally you couldn't pay me enough to work there. Plus these nice villages you talk of are expensive to live in and those earning less get pushed out further.

    In addition as its quite common to change jobs these days most people still don't want to move every few years so for example since the 90's I have worked in epsom,slough,reading,wantage,aylesbury,swindon all without moving many of those were over an hour away
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    TimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    Prof Devi Sridhar seems absolutely obsessed with elimination idea.

    But I don't understand either how it could work with an open economy with lots of movement, or why it would even be desired in a post vaccination world given the isolation, costs and risks associated with such a policy.

    New Zealand going isolationist and closing to the world until they get vaccinated makes sense.

    Scotland going isolationist and closing to the world after they get vaccinated makes no sense whatsoever.
    This is the final, hilariously self-unaware tweet of her rant response:

    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364888934975684609?s=20
    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364875159891554311?s=19

    This goes to what I said, buying time with no tolerance can make sense to get to the point of vaccines being available. But she's still advocating post vaccination zero tolerance. That's madness.

    PS it's possible the UK and Israel being first nations vaccinated will begin economic recovery quicker than other nations staying shut down.
    Its almost like Sridhar, and Michie, and a few others, have another agenda.
    In one company I worked at, IT security had a mandate to *anything* to prevent data breaches. Awesome, right?

    Well, it turned out that one of their policies would mean (effectively) shutting down external access. All external access. In a customer facing web based company. Yes, their policy/mandate meant that the company couldn't do business.....

    The mandate was amended....
    LOL. That’s a great way to be fired as an IT director. You’re supposed to work *with* the business, not against it.
    Same with safety. The object is to make the product/deliver the service safely and securely, not to be as safe and secure as possible, because the safest and securest is generally to do no business.
    Indeed. If changes are needed to increase security, then you have to come up with the solution not just the problem, that’s what they’re paying you to do. If something is so urgent that it will cause disruption, you’d better have had the big bosses sign off on it beforehand!
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    People commute in very odd ways sometimes. I knew people who commuted 2 hours from Wales to get to Salisbury.
    I can name two commuters to Wales from Wiltshire straight off the bat.

    There is Rhiannon Passmore, Labour's Senedd Cymru Member for Islwyn -- who lives in Wiltshire

    Or Neil Hamilton, UKIP's Senedd Cymru member for Mid and West Wales -- who lives in Wiltshire.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Not quite reproducing the blubbery, scalded pork thing imo

    https://twitter.com/skytv/status/1364902717395775488?s=20

    I do hope this will be warts and all.

    If the public see Johnson, warts and all, they'll be repelled.
    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.
    Jesus, Max, I'd hate to see you fillet a fish - that was quite the brutal deboning.
    That's what Fortis Green does to a person. They get lively.
    Fortis by name, fortis by nature.
    He'd never have torn me off a strip like that when we lived next door to each other.
  • kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    You've been working for the wrong companies.
    Or maybe I am just one of those people who has a perfectly adequate social life and don't need to socialise with random work colleagues?
    I think the distinction between city dwellers and more suburban people is the biggest difference.

    If you're driving home then after work drinks are not a good option. The overwhelming majority of the country drives home, but those who don't seem to view their choices as the mainstream.

    If you drink and drive you're a bloody idiot.
    You sometimes risk a shandy, though, as I recall. A shandy and then you get behind the wheel.
    Not very often, but yes a single shandy especially over a meal, is well within the limits and not a risk.

    I won't drink more than that though, so I won't have even a single pint.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,752
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    I knew somebody who commuted from Coventry to Gloucester.

    Also from Stroud to Cannock.

    Both of those paled in comparison to the lecturer at Aber who commuted in from Worcester.

    In all those cases, family ties were in one place and the job in another.
    There's also the couple with jobs in different cities 2 or more hours apart scenario. Certainly not that unusual in academia, particularly if both of the couple are academics - there will be a limited number of places to do the research you want to do (until you get high enough to take the research with you).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    That is just your londophilia talks personally you couldn't pay me enough to work there. Plus these nice villages you talk of are expensive to live in and those earning less get pushed out further.

    In addition as its quite common to change jobs these days most people still don't want to move every few years so for example since the 90's I have worked in epsom,slough,reading,wantage,aylesbury,swindon all without moving many of those were over an hour away
    I know plenty of people who work in Manchester and have a 2 hour commute, because:
    - they really like the Yorkshire Dales or the Lake District or the North Wales seaside
    - they grew up in somewhere (Staffordshire, York) where their family are and they don't want to move away from.
    - they have a spouse with a job somewhere else, so one of them is going to be living beyond the commuter belt of their own workplace
    - they have moved from somewhere but their families are settled.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Apparently the army in Armenia told its PM to resign, but he has, surprisingly, not done so. Silly boys, that's not how you do a coup - you make them resign, then tell people they chose to do it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56194421
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    UK cases by specimen date

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    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K population

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    That is just your londophilia talks personally you couldn't pay me enough to work there. Plus these nice villages you talk of are expensive to live in and those earning less get pushed out further.

    In addition as its quite common to change jobs these days most people still don't want to move every few years so for example since the 90's I have worked in epsom,slough,reading,wantage,aylesbury,swindon all without moving many of those were over an hour away
    If you're driving four hours a day to work anywhere you should move house, or change job. That is inhuman.

    Relatedly, right now I am suffering from insomnia (not sure if it is plague-related). So I spent nearly all of last night awake and reading Why We Sleep, a brilliant explanation of the latest sleep science

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-We-Sleep-Science-Dreams/dp/0141983760

    It argues, most convincingly, that much of the western world is chronically sleep deprived, because of the pressures of work and commuting (as you illustrate). This in turn has caused, in part, the explosion in Alzheimer's, obesity, drug abuse, depression, and so on.

    The science on exactly how important good sleep is, to us, is fascinating, and hugely persuasive. eg I had no idea that every animal that has ever been closely studied has been found to sleep: in some form.

    eg it is commonly thought that sharks don't sleep, because they never close their eyes. Not true, they sleep like all animals, they just don't have eyelids.

    Birds sleep as they fly. Insects take a nap. Sleep is a fundamental part of all life. Get More Kip.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    UK local R

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    UK case summary

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited February 2021

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    People commute in very odd ways sometimes. I knew people who commuted 2 hours from Wales to get to Salisbury.
    I can name two commuters to Wales from Wiltshire straight off the bat.

    There is Rhiannon Passmore, Labour's Senedd Cymru Member for Islwyn -- who lives in Wiltshire

    Or Neil Hamilton, UKIP's Senedd Cymru member for Mid and West Wales -- who lives in Wiltshire.
    It's a fine county. And with Stonehenge, the links with Wales go way back.

    Being totally fair, it looks like they are at least close to the northern railline, so it won't take that long to get to Wales. Still amusing though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    UK hospitals

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    UK deaths

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  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    MaxPB said:



    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.

    Ha. I'm that part of the liberal left that has given up all hope of anything changing for the better. I guess I have a tiny hope that when the violent change comes (which it inevitably will do, as you lot roll your collective eyes instead of fixing the constitution and the social settlement), it will lead to mass conviction/execution of Tories, the rentier class and the oligarchy, but of course it's far more likely to be fascism...

    Anyway WWIII will kick off before that happens.

    Back to the cricket now.

    Oh, bugger.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    UK R

    From cases data

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    from hospitalisations

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    edited February 2021
    Age related data

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    UK vaccinations

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  • Mango said:

    MaxPB said:



    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.

    Ha. I'm that part of the liberal left that has given up all hope of anything changing for the better. I guess I have a tiny hope that when the violent change comes (which it inevitably will do, as you lot roll your collective eyes instead of fixing the constitution and the social settlement), it will lead to mass conviction/execution of Tories, the rentier class and the oligarchy, but of course it's far more likely to be fascism...

    Anyway WWIII will kick off before that happens.

    Back to the cricket now.

    Oh, bugger.
    Mass executions of Tories

    At a time so many lives are being lost due to a pandemic you introduce executions

    What a nasty specimen you are
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    edited February 2021
    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 40% (=)
    LAB: 33% (-4)
    LDM: 11% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (+1)
    RFM: 3% (+1)
    UKIP: 2% (+1)

    Via
    @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 Feb.
    Changes w/ 21-25 Jan.

    SKS fans please explain

    DBMIVN (Don't blame me I voted Nandy)
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Mango said:

    MaxPB said:



    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.

    Ha. I'm that part of the liberal left that has given up all hope of anything changing for the better. I guess I have a tiny hope that when the violent change comes (which it inevitably will do, as you lot roll your collective eyes instead of fixing the constitution and the social settlement), it will lead to mass conviction/execution of Tories, the rentier class and the oligarchy, but of course it's far more likely to be fascism...

    Anyway WWIII will kick off before that happens.

    Back to the cricket now.

    Oh, bugger.
    Mass executions of Tories

    At a time so many lives are being lost due to a pandemic you introduce executions

    What a nasty specimen you are
    And far lefties wonder why people don't want them anywhere near power?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    On this commuting malarkey, there is also the factor of companies relocating or 'rationalising' their offices.

    When my previous office closed, I benefited as I moved to an office closer to home. No such luck for my colleague who used to walk to work and now has a 45+ minute drive each way. She isn't in a hurry to get back to the office post-Covid.

    I got the shitty end of the stick when our team moved office in London. Ealing Broadway to Tower Hill is a loooong time on the District Line.
  • Mango said:

    MaxPB said:



    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.

    Ha. I'm that part of the liberal left that has given up all hope of anything changing for the better. I guess I have a tiny hope that when the violent change comes (which it inevitably will do, as you lot roll your collective eyes instead of fixing the constitution and the social settlement), it will lead to mass conviction/execution of Tories, the rentier class and the oligarchy, but of course it's far more likely to be fascism...

    Anyway WWIII will kick off before that happens.

    Back to the cricket now.

    Oh, bugger.
    I think you need to learn the meaning of the word liberal. 🤔
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Mango said:

    MaxPB said:



    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.

    Ha. I'm that part of the liberal left that has given up all hope of anything changing for the better. I guess I have a tiny hope that when the violent change comes (which it inevitably will do, as you lot roll your collective eyes instead of fixing the constitution and the social settlement), it will lead to mass conviction/execution of Tories, the rentier class and the oligarchy, but of course it's far more likely to be fascism...

    Anyway WWIII will kick off before that happens.

    Back to the cricket now.

    Oh, bugger.
    Lol, you're funny.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Mango said:

    MaxPB said:



    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.

    Ha. I'm that part of the liberal left that has given up all hope of anything changing for the better. I guess I have a tiny hope that when the violent change comes (which it inevitably will do, as you lot roll your collective eyes instead of fixing the constitution and the social settlement), it will lead to mass conviction/execution of Tories, the rentier class and the oligarchy, but of course it's far more likely to be fascism...

    Anyway WWIII will kick off before that happens.

    Back to the cricket now.

    Oh, bugger.
    Lol, you're funny.
    Yeah. Hoping for the mass executions of Tories? I think that’s crossing a line.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    RobD said:

    Mango said:

    MaxPB said:



    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.

    Ha. I'm that part of the liberal left that has given up all hope of anything changing for the better. I guess I have a tiny hope that when the violent change comes (which it inevitably will do, as you lot roll your collective eyes instead of fixing the constitution and the social settlement), it will lead to mass conviction/execution of Tories, the rentier class and the oligarchy, but of course it's far more likely to be fascism...

    Anyway WWIII will kick off before that happens.

    Back to the cricket now.

    Oh, bugger.
    Lol, you're funny.
    Yeah. Hoping for the mass executions of Tories? I think that’s crossing a line.
    I'd react more strongly, but I think it's cruel to mock a man for impotence.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    People commute in very odd ways sometimes. I knew people who commuted 2 hours from Wales to get to Salisbury.
    I can name two commuters to Wales from Wiltshire straight off the bat.

    There is Rhiannon Passmore, Labour's Senedd Cymru Member for Islwyn -- who lives in Wiltshire

    Or Neil Hamilton, UKIP's Senedd Cymru member for Mid and West Wales -- who lives in Wiltshire.
    They could car share.
  • Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Why is that depressing? Sinn Fein - until quite recently the political wing of a violently murderous revolutionary movement - are in power in Ulster and in parliament in Dublin.

    It makes sense to talk to these people rather than ignore them.
    The issue with the loyalist groups is that they ended up in Prison and spent their time body building.

    Sinn Fein and the IRA spent their time studying and worked out how the future could be played out to their advantage.
    Brutally speaking: the loyalists won. They amped up the violence in Ulster to such an extent, in the end more Catholic civilians were dying than Protestants. It is one of the key reasons the IRA sued for peace. They were losing.

    Ulster remains in the UK.

    2/3rds of Ulster. Three of the nine counties remain unoccupied.

    ULSTER SAYS NO!!
    Ulster consists of Antrim, Armagh, Cavan, Derry, Donegal, Down, Fermanagh, Monaghan and Tyrone.

    HTH.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    People commute in very odd ways sometimes. I knew people who commuted 2 hours from Wales to get to Salisbury.
    I can name two commuters to Wales from Wiltshire straight off the bat.

    There is Rhiannon Passmore, Labour's Senedd Cymru Member for Islwyn -- who lives in Wiltshire

    Or Neil Hamilton, UKIP's Senedd Cymru member for Mid and West Wales -- who lives in Wiltshire.
    They could car share.
    I wouldn’t want to car share with Hamilton given his whole career has been one long car crash.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1364970179344629768

    The first time Labour mentioned this was 30 mins after it started I think
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    You've been working for the wrong companies.
    Or maybe I am just one of those people who has a perfectly adequate social life and don't need to socialise with random work colleagues?
    I think the distinction between city dwellers and more suburban people is the biggest difference.

    If you're driving home then after work drinks are not a good option. The overwhelming majority of the country drives home, but those who don't seem to view their choices as the mainstream.

    If you drink and drive you're a bloody idiot.
    You sometimes risk a shandy, though, as I recall. A shandy and then you get behind the wheel.
    Not very often, but yes a single shandy especially over a meal, is well within the limits and not a risk.

    I won't drink more than that though, so I won't have even a single pint.
    Fair enough. A shandy is alcoholic though. Many people consider it a soft drink but it isn't. Depending how it's made it can have quite a kick.
  • Leon said:

    Yes.

    A happily married friend of mine (in his 40s) was going slowly insane, locked in a two bed flat with his wife and teen daughter, 24/7. Wife lost her job early on in the Rona, so was at home all the time, for the first time ever, he is a freelancer so works from home anyway.

    He was inches from divorce... when she at last got a new job, meaning she's out of the house most of the day, 5 days a week. Marriage saved. But it was close

    The old saying is 'Marriage should be for life, but not for lunch.'
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    I think there is a simple explanation as to why the College's wine cellar might be exhausted.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    edited February 2021
    Duplicate.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206
    RobD said:

    Mango said:

    MaxPB said:



    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.

    Ha. I'm that part of the liberal left that has given up all hope of anything changing for the better. I guess I have a tiny hope that when the violent change comes (which it inevitably will do, as you lot roll your collective eyes instead of fixing the constitution and the social settlement), it will lead to mass conviction/execution of Tories, the rentier class and the oligarchy, but of course it's far more likely to be fascism...

    Anyway WWIII will kick off before that happens.

    Back to the cricket now.

    Oh, bugger.
    Lol, you're funny.
    Yeah. Hoping for the mass executions of Tories? I think that’s crossing a line.
    He's talking about the danger of a break to extremism unless we wise up.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019



    He is forgetting the main characteristic of violent revolution -

    "But, I *am* loyal to the party..."

    {sound of rifle bolts}....

    Oh, I have no doubt they'd haul my liberal middle class ass off to the Isle of Wight gulag. But it beats waiting for electoral reform, or a free press, or any of that make-your-society-function-fairly nonsense.
  • kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    This year is peak population year for Germany according to this page.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/DEU/germany/population-growth-rate

    Could be the same for the UK. We've lost 500,000 overseas residents, at least, thanks to Covid. Are they coming back?

    And the birth rate might be crushed by the virus - as it has been in Italy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/26/covid-and-climate-of-fear-puts-italian-birth-rate-at-lowest-since-unification

    Add in 150,000 dead of the bug, and a knackered economy making people migrate.....

    It is quite possible the UK's population will sharply decline from here, at least for a while.
    Some still seem to be expecting a baby boom which will start impacting schools in a few years though.
    That will hit secondary schools in about 12 years then: just about the point when I will be thinking about retiring.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Knew a lass commuted from Rossendale to Manchester.
    By steam train and tram. This century.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    edited February 2021

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 40% (=)
    LAB: 33% (-4)
    LDM: 11% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (+1)
    RFM: 3% (+1)
    UKIP: 2% (+1)

    Via
    @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 Feb.
    Changes w/ 21-25 Jan.

    SKS fans please explain

    DBMIVN (Don't blame me I voted Nandy)

    Baxtered, just for fun, gives Con Maj 20 on current boundaries, 48 on 2018 proposed boundaries.

    The former I'd say is barely a working majority, despite the SFers not bothering to represent their constituents. The latter is obviously a comfortable one, especially as it's in a Parliament of 600 seats.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    I think there is a simple explanation as to why the College's wine cellar might be exhausted.
    Leon/Sean was an invited speaker?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Mango said:



    He is forgetting the main characteristic of violent revolution -

    "But, I *am* loyal to the party..."

    {sound of rifle bolts}....

    Oh, I have no doubt they'd haul my liberal middle class ass off to the Isle of Wight gulag. But it beats waiting for electoral reform, or a free press, or any of that make-your-society-function-fairly nonsense.
    Ah, so a blood and iron revolution will deliver a free press. Pravda editors would agree, I'm sure.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    TimT said:

    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    People commute in very odd ways sometimes. I knew people who commuted 2 hours from Wales to get to Salisbury.
    I knew I guy who commuted from Scotland to London and another who commuted in his own plane to Chatham
    Is that Chatham in Trinidad?
    Not quite as exotic - Medway towns
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 40% (=)
    LAB: 33% (-4)
    LDM: 11% (+1)
    GRN: 6% (+1)
    RFM: 3% (+1)
    UKIP: 2% (+1)

    Via
    @Kantar_UKI
    , 18-22 Feb.
    Changes w/ 21-25 Jan.

    SKS fans please explain

    DBMIVN (Don't blame me I voted Nandy)

    What has caused the sudden surge in LD support to 11%?
  • I think there is a simple explanation as to why the College's wine cellar might be exhausted.
    There is, as was noted in 2014.

    Proof: booze brings top grades

    A clear correlation has been found between the amount of money colleges spend on alcohol and the percentage of firsts they receive.

    A genius Cambridge grad has found a link between the money colleges spend on booze and the number of firsts their students achieve.

    Churchill grad Grayden Reece-Smith has made a chart that appears to show a relationship between the amount of wine supplied by colleges and academic performance.

    Students have widely accepted that this chart is the best excuse for bad behaviour since telling your mum you only read Playboy for the articles.

    Speaking to The Tab, Land Economy grad Grayden said he decided to make the chart after reading about college spending on wine.

    “I noticed that the colleges with the highest wine budgets were traditionally those that were also high in the Tompkins Table. I knew there would be a correlation before I made the chart.”

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2014/02/04/proof-booze-brings-top-grades-33080
  • kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:
    He's right, from my team the requests for remote working are zero so far. Almost all of the responses are 3 or 4 days in office with a few choosing 1 day from home every fortnight and two in the 5 days in office, only one has opted for 3 days WFH and she already did two days WFH before all this started.

    The death of inner cities and offices are overdone and I expect the young, social under 40s will hold onto city life and that will force people back into offices as they will find their career growth stunted by remote working.
    As a contrary anecdote, none of the team I work in want to go back to the office , the exceptions being managers. Indeed my company has let all but the head office leases lapse and the head office is more a paper fiction having a staff of about 8 out of the 200 the company employs
    FOMO tho.

    You'll be sat at home and the keen youngsters will go in. They will have those chance meetings, water cooler moments, important drinks, which can help a business and advance a career in multiple ways. They will have the whole shared office experience which makes a *team mentality* - the jokes and anecdotes and crises and Days to Remember - you won't.

    They will make rapid progress, and be rewarded for their eagerness, the homesters might not.

    This stuff is actually more important in areas beyond the obvious (banking, law, insurance).

    In the creative industries the face to face stuff is absolutely crucial. Brainstorming doesn't work on Zoom. The lunch with that talented actor, dancer, writer, sculptor, agent, editor, singer, flint toy knapper, which tells you if they are any good, cannot happen if everyone is in their kitchen.

    Right now most media/arts companies - publishing, journalism, events, drama, music, are WFH. I expect all of them to come back for nearly all of the week.
    Team drinks have been pretty much a myth in any company I have worked for since 1990. Simple reason being when most finish work they have a 1 to 2 hour commute to go home often by car. Even for big things like the company christmas do it was rare to get more than 50% attendance.
    Fair enough. All I know is that central London pubs - esp in the City, Soho, Mayfair, the Wharf - were, generally, absolutely rammed after about 6pm pre-Covid. And not with tourists.
    London = no need to drive.

    Once you get outside London (and other cities) the idea of going for drinks after work falls apart very rapidly
    But Pagan2 talks of a 1-2 hour commute, generally by car. The only city big enough and rich enough to justify a 2 hour commute (in the UK) is London.

    Are there people commuting for 2 hours to get to Bristol?! Manc? Edinburgh? Why?? The nice villages begin - max - 30 minutes from the centre...
    People commute in very odd ways sometimes. I knew people who commuted 2 hours from Wales to get to Salisbury.
    On a nice summer evening I have been known to stretch out my commute to over an hour by walking home via a nearby National Trust property, but I'm not sure that counts...
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:

    MaxPB said:



    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.

    Ha. I'm that part of the liberal left that has given up all hope of anything changing for the better. I guess I have a tiny hope that when the violent change comes (which it inevitably will do, as you lot roll your collective eyes instead of fixing the constitution and the social settlement), it will lead to mass conviction/execution of Tories, the rentier class and the oligarchy, but of course it's far more likely to be fascism...

    Anyway WWIII will kick off before that happens.

    Back to the cricket now.

    Oh, bugger.
    Lol, you're funny.
    Yeah. Hoping for the mass executions of Tories? I think that’s crossing a line.
    He's talking about the danger of a break to extremism unless we wise up.
    Yes, we always say we hope that something will happen when we don't want it to happen...
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Just noticed that in the disaster that was the Third Test, Root got a five-for
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    A really important thread on the global drop in cases I have been commenting upon. That drop has slowed, indeed started to reverse, because of the countries (largely in Europe) that have loose restrictions AND little in the way of antibody/T-Cell immunity. You can have either (to an extent) but you can't do neither. In the UK we have the a very strict lockdown and the benefit of an increasing amount of antibodies through vaccination. In South Africa the fall can at least in part be explained by the fact that in Eastern Cape (by way of example) peak antibody levels exceeded 60%. Those will decrease but T-Cell immunity will remain.

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1364963301835370497

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1364963342129971202
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    edited February 2021
    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Mango said:

    MaxPB said:



    Or it will have no effect like that brexit dramatisation. The liberal left (you) will wank themselves blind and post furiously on twitter about how this will change everything, the rest of the country will roll its collective eyes and get on with life and Starmer will still lose.

    Ha. I'm that part of the liberal left that has given up all hope of anything changing for the better. I guess I have a tiny hope that when the violent change comes (which it inevitably will do, as you lot roll your collective eyes instead of fixing the constitution and the social settlement), it will lead to mass conviction/execution of Tories, the rentier class and the oligarchy, but of course it's far more likely to be fascism...

    Anyway WWIII will kick off before that happens.

    Back to the cricket now.

    Oh, bugger.
    Lol, you're funny.
    Yeah. Hoping for the mass executions of Tories? I think that’s crossing a line.
    He's talking about the danger of a break to extremism unless we wise up.
    Bollocks. It's right there in the post "I have a tiny hope that when the violent change comes, it will lead to mass conviction/execution of Tories"

    Nothing about how that would be a bad thing and should be avoided.
This discussion has been closed.