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You can get evens that Biden’s approval will still be in the 50-54.9 range after 100 days – politica

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  • eek said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    5 days a week or with more flexibility?
    3 days a week for those who have had had both jabs by the 6th of June.

    There'll be exceptions for those who live/care for people who haven't received both jabs by then.
    That sounds about right.

    I'm looking forward to being a TWAT* commuter.

    (*Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    edited February 2021
    MaxPB said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    We've set the same provisional date too. Flexible working available with everyone eligible for up to 3 days from home and remote working available with the agreement of management. Interestingly they've said no to overseas remote working due to data concerns which has been quite poorly received but management have said anyone who can't live with it will have to go and find a new job.
    There are regulatory, social and cultural issues with outsourcing working overseas, plus it's difficult to get in regularly to team-bond.

    I can't see it becoming routine.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    sarissa said:

    And again, why is she not standing for leader?

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1364935500268789768?s=20

    with a 109 majority to defend from when the SNP were weaker than they are now, she's undoubtedly anxious about retaining her seat.
    If only all MSPs were equally anxious.
  • We're also updating the contracts of employment soon.

    Outside counsel says we're on solid ground to not hire people who refuse the vaccine (outside of medical reasons)

    We're also going to implement a policy of stay at home if you have any flu/covid like symptoms until you get a negative test.

    Coming into work with plague like symptoms may well become a sackable offence.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    MaxPB said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    We've set the same provisional date too. Flexible working available with everyone eligible for up to 3 days from home and remote working available with the agreement of management. Interestingly they've said no to overseas remote working due to data concerns which has been quite poorly received but management have said anyone who can't live with it will have to go and find a new job.
    I wonder what happens if everyone wants to arrange the "working from home" days so that they have a long weekend from Thursday to Monday or Friday to Tuesday?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Kier Starmer really has some work to do, doesn't he?

    Sadly, I think he'll either veer off-piste in response to this, or try and triangulate, where what he should really do is unite and lead both sides with a compelling vision.

    I'm not sure he does compelling. Or vision.

    He seems to be absolutely devoid of personality. I've heard of parties being a 'blank sheet of paper' so that people can project what they want onto the party, but Starmer seems to be taking that to unprecedented extremes.
    Yeah, I wonder about this one - so was Attlee.

    The difference was Attlee knew politics, and could do vision and leadership in an understated way, and did shit.
    And Attlee had a host of "big beasts" he could call upon (and fend off!). He also married a Tory.....
    Isn't his son/grandson in the H/L as a Tory peer. They all see sense in the end.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    The execution of these Northern campuses (whilst a laudable idea) seem a bit tokenistic and daft to me.

    Surely they will only work if in a strategic clusters - not odd blobs of outposts here and there (keeping the London buildings as the main base) that nobody will ever visit.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    edited February 2021
    Yep - the biggest issue was people trying to get it out at the airport and the next issue is finding a suitable location for 750 workers in the town centre. There's a couple of options though where buildings have or need to be knocked down.

    Also I wonder if Rishi is visiting his constituency this weekend or working on the budget in London.
  • felix said:

    Kier Starmer really has some work to do, doesn't he?

    Sadly, I think he'll either veer off-piste in response to this, or try and triangulate, where what he should really do is unite and lead both sides with a compelling vision.

    I'm not sure he does compelling. Or vision.

    He seems to be absolutely devoid of personality. I've heard of parties being a 'blank sheet of paper' so that people can project what they want onto the party, but Starmer seems to be taking that to unprecedented extremes.
    Yeah, I wonder about this one - so was Attlee.

    The difference was Attlee knew politics, and could do vision and leadership in an understated way, and did shit.
    And Attlee had a host of "big beasts" he could call upon (and fend off!). He also married a Tory.....
    Isn't his son/grandson in the H/L as a Tory peer. They all see sense in the end.
    His grandson ended up being a whip in the Lords under David Cameron (pbuh).
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    The execution of these Northern campuses (whilst a laudable idea) seem a bit tokenistic and daft to me.

    Surely they will only work if in a strategic clusters - not odd blobs of outposts here and there (keeping the London buildings as the main base) that nobody will ever visit.
    Darlington - 2 hours by East Coast mainline, 1 hour from Heathrow...

    The communication links are second to about none but it will be a shame when I can't roll into the airport 30 minutes before the flight
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    His seat is Richmond, less than 10 miles down the road.... There will be folk commuting from his constituency.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Stocky said:

    Oh dear, Sir Keir.

    Cheerio, cheerio, cheerio......
    On these figures the Tories lose 9/10 seats to the LDs as well as about the same to LAB
    Old boundaries....
    Are the new boundaries 100% sure to come in and what difference will they make?
    Unless Boris goes for a shock early election, then yes I'd say a 2014 election is on new boundaries.

    As to effect, it is expected to make a modest shift of seats to the Conservatives. The extent is maybe up to 10 more seats heading their way over the 2019 result (Mr Meeks did a thread header a couple of weeks back where he suggested significantly less, but the comments underneath gave detailed reason to believe he was somewhat pessimistic on the Tories' chances of benefitting).
    On the other hand, people tend to do such analysis by starting from the vote totals as they are now. Which is a situation where the Tories already have a large majority. It would be more meaningful to adjust the 2019 votes by some sort of swing to predict a situation when the two parties run each other close, and then examine the difference new boundaries make.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    The execution of these Northern campuses (whilst a laudable idea) seem a bit tokenistic and daft to me.

    Surely they will only work if in a strategic clusters - not odd blobs of outposts here and there (keeping the London buildings as the main base) that nobody will ever visit.
    With five million on furlough and two million unemployed, an extra debt mountain of 400bn and a structural deficit of 40bn, you may be right.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823

    eek said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    5 days a week or with more flexibility?
    3 days a week for those who have had had both jabs by the 6th of June.

    There'll be exceptions for those who live/care for people who haven't received both jabs by then.
    That sounds about right.

    I'm looking forward to being a TWAT* commuter.

    (*Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays)
    As someone with an interest in planning the long term viability of public transport, this is a problem. We will have to provide as much capacity as ever for the TWATs, but will be carrying a lot of empty air for two days of the working week. And empty air pays for no tickets. (We can do things like running smaller units on Mondays and Fridays, but we still have to have the drivers; the benefits from doing this - lower fuel costs etc - are marginal).

    It's also a problem for those with an interest in efficient use of office space, for the same reason.

    I can see public transport offering shoulder fares on Mondays and Fridays to try to incentivise better spreading through the week.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    MattW said:

    sarissa said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    She really really has a brass neck, looks likeshe is going to take the whole lot down before she will fess up.
    Ruth's point today is a telling one. Up to now the focus has all been on the meeting with Mr Aberdein on 29th March where what was to be discussed at the meeting on 2nd April was allegedly discussed but Ruth is pointing out that Sturgeon knew about the allegations months prior to this and had discussed them with her officials. That really blows the water out of her "shock" at what was discussed on 2nd April and indeed her contention that she thought that this was some sort of SNP meeting which did not have to involve civil servants.

    Given what she knew and given her position she really should not have met Salmond anywhere, let alone in her own home.
    David - Geoff Aberdein's submission to the inquiry is not doing to be published and he will not be called, so his version of events contradicting Sturgeon cannot be even considered. That is the reason she felt confident enough to say the complainant's name was not disclosed to salmond via Aberdein prior to the 29 march meeting.
    Playing a dead bat:

    https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202000119311/
    It seems that one side is reckoning on the other running out of energy.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    MaxPB said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    We've set the same provisional date too. Flexible working available with everyone eligible for up to 3 days from home and remote working available with the agreement of management. Interestingly they've said no to overseas remote working due to data concerns which has been quite poorly received but management have said anyone who can't live with it will have to go and find a new job.
    There are regulatory, social and cultural issues with outsourcing working overseas, plus it's difficult to get in regularly to team-bond.

    I can't see it becoming routine.
    Tax, mainly, and then employment law.
  • Yes but there could suddenly be a problem with the live feed...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    The execution of these Northern campuses (whilst a laudable idea) seem a bit tokenistic and daft to me.

    Surely they will only work if in a strategic clusters - not odd blobs of outposts here and there (keeping the London buildings as the main base) that nobody will ever visit.
    With five million on furlough and two million unemployed, an extra debt mountain of 400bn and a structural deficit of 40bn, you may be right.

    We also have a Department of Education campus behind the town hall so I suspect the distance from the Treasury to the DoE will be shorter than even in Victoria.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Oh dear, Sir Keir.

    Cheerio, cheerio, cheerio......
    On these figures the Tories lose 9/10 seats to the LDs as well as about the same to LAB
    Old boundaries....
    Are the new boundaries 100% sure to come in and what difference will they make?
    Unless Boris goes for a shock early election, then yes I'd say a 2014 election is on new boundaries.

    As to effect, it is expected to make a modest shift of seats to the Conservatives. The extent is maybe up to 10 more seats heading their way over the 2019 result (Mr Meeks did a thread header a couple of weeks back where he suggested significantly less, but the comments underneath gave detailed reason to believe he was somewhat pessimistic on the Tories' chances of benefitting).
    On the other hand, people tend to do such analysis by starting from the vote totals as they are now. Which is a situation where the Tories already have a large majority. It would be more meaningful to adjust the 2019 votes by some sort of swing to predict a situation when the two parties run each other close, and then examine the difference new boundaries make.
    The effect of movement following Covid could be quite stark by 2024. Could be some surprise results....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823
    Me too. The movement seems to be to support the smaller towns rather than the big cities.
    Failing Darlo, Bradford.

    I used to live in Darlington. It's nicer than you might think. Well it was in 1997, anyway.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    edited February 2021
    Cookie said:

    Me too. The movement seems to be to support the smaller towns rather than the big cities.
    Failing Darlo, Bradford.

    I used to live in Darlington. It's nicer than you might think. Well it was in 1997, anyway.
    Still is - we moved here in 98.

    Also it's not going to a City and no one would willingly go to Bradford.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    His seat is Richmond, less than 10 miles down the road.... There will be folk commuting from his constituency.
    Well duh. Northallerton is probably a nicer place to live than Darlo...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    MaxPB said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    We've set the same provisional date too. Flexible working available with everyone eligible for up to 3 days from home and remote working available with the agreement of management. Interestingly they've said no to overseas remote working due to data concerns which has been quite poorly received but management have said anyone who can't live with it will have to go and find a new job.
    Same here, as you can appreciate, working for a financial institution and working from home has tested data security/GDPR/etc to its limits and then some.
    I seriously don't know how any law firm can expect a trainee solicitor living in a two bed flat with a mate to work from home and maintain any semblance of cleint confidentiality in meetings. I had a questionnaire round about it today and made the point quite strongly.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    His seat is Richmond, less than 10 miles down the road.... There will be folk commuting from his constituency.
    Well duh. Northallerton is probably a nicer place to live than Darlo...
    Northallerton is a nicer place is some ways - for communication links though it's a nightmare - you add 20 minutes just getting to the motorway.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Look at the purple line...


  • DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    We've set the same provisional date too. Flexible working available with everyone eligible for up to 3 days from home and remote working available with the agreement of management. Interestingly they've said no to overseas remote working due to data concerns which has been quite poorly received but management have said anyone who can't live with it will have to go and find a new job.
    Same here, as you can appreciate, working for a financial institution and working from home has tested data security/GDPR/etc to its limits and then some.
    I seriously don't know how any law firm can expect a trainee solicitor living in a two bed flat with a mate to work from home and maintain any semblance of cleint confidentiality in meetings. I had a questionnaire round about it today and made the point quite strongly.
    I came up with a brilliant solution to that in my role of Head of Regulatory Affairs .

    If you're working from and live with others, to protect confidentiality you must wear headphones during all work calls/video calls.

    I suspect this custom was more honour’d in the breach than the observance.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    eek said:

    His seat is Richmond, less than 10 miles down the road.... There will be folk commuting from his constituency.
    Well duh. Northallerton is probably a nicer place to live than Darlo...
    Northallerton is a nicer place is some ways - for communication links though it's a nightmare - you add 20 minutes just getting to the motorway.
    In my biased view Newcastle is a better choice though. We already have some HMRC and the commuter belt feeds just as many Tory constituencies and potential Tory voters. And of course we're also on the ECML and have a bigger and better airport.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001

    I came up with a brilliant solution to that in my role of Head of Regulatory Affairs .

    If you're working from and live with others, to protect confidentiality you must wear headphones during all work calls/video calls.

    I suspect this custom was more honour’d in the breach than the observance.

    But you are allowed to say confidential stuff within hearing range of your housemates...
  • If you're working in Darlington then move to Middleton Tyas.

    I speak as a former resident of Middleton Tyas, it broke my heart to leave there.
  • felix said:
    I'd think so. Newcastle (huge University city and market town for NE England) and Leeds already have a lot going for them. That leaves Bradford & Darlington - Bradford is close to Leeds - so I reckon Darlington would get biggest boost. And it's got a Tory MP!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited February 2021

    DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    We've set the same provisional date too. Flexible working available with everyone eligible for up to 3 days from home and remote working available with the agreement of management. Interestingly they've said no to overseas remote working due to data concerns which has been quite poorly received but management have said anyone who can't live with it will have to go and find a new job.
    Same here, as you can appreciate, working for a financial institution and working from home has tested data security/GDPR/etc to its limits and then some.
    I seriously don't know how any law firm can expect a trainee solicitor living in a two bed flat with a mate to work from home and maintain any semblance of cleint confidentiality in meetings. I had a questionnaire round about it today and made the point quite strongly.
    I came up with a brilliant solution to that in my role of Head of Regulatory Affairs .

    If you're working from and live with others, to protect confidentiality you must wear headphones during all work calls/video calls.

    I suspect this custom was more honour’d in the breach than the observance.
    That protects half the conversation, sure, but I like trainees to contribute if they can. The better ones I get to do interlocutory tribunal applications.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752

    Kier Starmer really has some work to do, doesn't he?

    Sadly, I think he'll either veer off-piste in response to this, or try and triangulate, where what he should really do is unite and lead both sides with a compelling vision.

    I'm not sure he does compelling. Or vision.

    He seems to be absolutely devoid of personality. I've heard of parties being a 'blank sheet of paper' so that people can project what they want onto the party, but Starmer seems to be taking that to unprecedented extremes.
    Yeah, I wonder about this one - so was Attlee.

    The difference was Attlee knew politics, and could do vision and leadership in an understated way, and did shit.
    You have to remember that Attlee became Deputy PM during the war without winning an election. His service during the war transformed his image and rehabilitated Labour. And he then went on to win an election.

    Unless Macron threatens to invade (not impossible, I grant you) I don't think the same opportunity is likely to arise for Sir Keir.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    edited February 2021

    eek said:

    His seat is Richmond, less than 10 miles down the road.... There will be folk commuting from his constituency.
    Well duh. Northallerton is probably a nicer place to live than Darlo...
    Northallerton is a nicer place is some ways - for communication links though it's a nightmare - you add 20 minutes just getting to the motorway.
    In my biased view Newcastle is a better choice though. We already have some HMRC and the commuter belt feeds just as many Tory constituencies and potential Tory voters. And of course we're also on the ECML and have a bigger and better airport.
    Doesn't solve the problem though - which is that the Tees Valley (Red Wall) needs something for voting Tory and the Treasury really does need to see how the rest of the country works.

    You only have to look at the options to know which one is going to be picked... Especially as where are you going to find space for 100,000sq ft of office space required.

    In Darlington they can and will be rebuilding the town centre around it.

    Plus it will open to coincide with the 2025 celebrations..
  • Scott_xP said:

    I came up with a brilliant solution to that in my role of Head of Regulatory Affairs .

    If you're working from and live with others, to protect confidentiality you must wear headphones during all work calls/video calls.

    I suspect this custom was more honour’d in the breach than the observance.

    But you are allowed to say confidential stuff within hearing range of your housemates...
    Work in a private room with the door shut and it is all good.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    Me too. The movement seems to be to support the smaller towns rather than the big cities.
    Failing Darlo, Bradford.

    I used to live in Darlington. It's nicer than you might think. Well it was in 1997, anyway.
    Still is - we moved here in 98.

    Also it's not going to a City and no one would willingly go to Bradford.
    Pleased to hear it!

    No-one would willingly go to Bradford - but they'd be wrong. I would award Bradford 'most improved city' of the last decade. The city centre is a masterpiece of urban regeneration. In short, they have knocked down all there ugly buildings and replaced them with open space through which you can see the glorious Victoriana. 10 more years on this trajectory and the city will be the most beautiful in Britain. They've done astonishingly well.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    "Earlier we reported that pubs in England will be able to sell takeaway drinks from 12 April.

    And now, it seems al fresco dining is set to return to central London too.

    Sixty streets, including those in Soho, Chinatown and Covent Garden, will be pedestrianised to allow restaurants and bars to offer outside table service.

    Over 550 restaurants were given table licences last year in a bid to recreate the outside dining culture seen in cities like Paris and Barcelona, and large crowds gathered as pub-goers celebrated lockdown easing.

    Temporary roadblocks and wardens will be deployed to manage traffic and pedestrian flows when the al fresco scheme is launched, Westminster City Council said."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56193574
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    We've set the same provisional date too. Flexible working available with everyone eligible for up to 3 days from home and remote working available with the agreement of management. Interestingly they've said no to overseas remote working due to data concerns which has been quite poorly received but management have said anyone who can't live with it will have to go and find a new job.
    Same here, as you can appreciate, working for a financial institution and working from home has tested data security/GDPR/etc to its limits and then some.
    I seriously don't know how any law firm can expect a trainee solicitor living in a two bed flat with a mate to work from home and maintain any semblance of cleint confidentiality in meetings. I had a questionnaire round about it today and made the point quite strongly.
    For all of my friends, WFH has got very stale. I reckon we might go back to an almost-normal routine in the end, with SOME staff allowed to WFH on one or two days a week. As a perk, maybe?

    Testing and vaxxing will be mandatory: you either do one or the other

    https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1364831766561890304?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,216

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Why a10 day "go out and spread it" delay in starting the lockdown.
    That's absolutely nuts.

    Jersey discovers cases and announces lockdown three days hence - pubs predictably rammed - huge spike in cases.
    Guernsey discovers cases Friday evening and locks down mid-day Saturday - far fewer cases and much shorter outbreak.
    Isn't it more or less what we did, a few times last year ?

    And yes, it makes no sense at all.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    Me too. The movement seems to be to support the smaller towns rather than the big cities.
    Failing Darlo, Bradford.

    I used to live in Darlington. It's nicer than you might think. Well it was in 1997, anyway.
    Still is - we moved here in 98.

    Also it's not going to a City and no one would willingly go to Bradford.
    Pleased to hear it!

    No-one would willingly go to Bradford - but they'd be wrong. I would award Bradford 'most improved city' of the last decade. The city centre is a masterpiece of urban regeneration. In short, they have knocked down all there ugly buildings and replaced them with open space through which you can see the glorious Victoriana. 10 more years on this trajectory and the city will be the most beautiful in Britain. They've done astonishingly well.
    how long was the arndale centre a hole in the ground though.

    There are parts of Bradford I love Saltaire for instance but the town centre has issues and my wife still has nightmares about the throughabout.
  • Prof Devi Sridhar seems absolutely obsessed with elimination idea.

    But I don't understand either how it could work with an open economy with lots of movement, or why it would even be desired in a post vaccination world given the isolation, costs and risks associated with such a policy.

    New Zealand going isolationist and closing to the world until they get vaccinated makes sense.

    Scotland going isolationist and closing to the world after they get vaccinated makes no sense whatsoever.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Andy_JS said:

    "Earlier we reported that pubs in England will be able to sell takeaway drinks from 12 April.

    And now, it seems al fresco dining is set to return to central London too.

    Sixty streets, including those in Soho, Chinatown and Covent Garden, will be pedestrianised to allow restaurants and bars to offer outside table service.

    Over 550 restaurants were given table licences last year in a bid to recreate the outside dining culture seen in cities like Paris and Barcelona, and large crowds gathered as pub-goers celebrated lockdown easing.

    Temporary roadblocks and wardens will be deployed to manage traffic and pedestrian flows when the al fresco scheme is launched, Westminster City Council said."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56193574

    As forecast by @Leon and my good self on these very pages. It’s a-coming.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,216
    Closest to his constituency ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Why a10 day "go out and spread it" delay in starting the lockdown.
    That's absolutely nuts.

    Jersey discovers cases and announces lockdown three days hence - pubs predictably rammed - huge spike in cases.
    Guernsey discovers cases Friday evening and locks down mid-day Saturday - far fewer cases and much shorter outbreak.
    Isn't it more or less what we did, a few times last year ?

    And yes, it makes no sense at all.
    But they all do it. Austria did it recently re Tirol. Announce a dramatic lockdown.... in a few days.

    There must be some reason. I can't quite figure it out tho. Compassion for people separated from loved ones? But then, a lockdown is a lockdown, it's not meant to be kind.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,216

    eek said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    5 days a week or with more flexibility?
    3 days a week for those who have had had both jabs by the 6th of June.

    There'll be exceptions for those who live/care for people who haven't received both jabs by then.
    That sounds about right.

    I'm looking forward to being a TWAT* commuter.

    (*Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays)
    I'd go with WTF.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Scott_xP said:

    I came up with a brilliant solution to that in my role of Head of Regulatory Affairs .

    If you're working from and live with others, to protect confidentiality you must wear headphones during all work calls/video calls.

    I suspect this custom was more honour’d in the breach than the observance.

    But you are allowed to say confidential stuff within hearing range of your housemates...
    Work in a private room with the door shut and it is all good.
    Which brings us full circle to the problem of people sharing small flats. My trainee since September has been working from his kitchen table. His partner sits at the opposite end of the kitchen table. When a call happens then technically (I'm sure this doesn't much happen) he goes and sits in the bedroom.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    Nigelb said:

    Closest to his constituency ?
    Nope - Red Wall, a need to look at things outside cities but still with decent communication links.

    Where else has an airport, mainline trains and access to multiple (3/4) national parks within an hours drive.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,216
    felix said:

    Kier Starmer really has some work to do, doesn't he?

    Sadly, I think he'll either veer off-piste in response to this, or try and triangulate, where what he should really do is unite and lead both sides with a compelling vision.

    I'm not sure he does compelling. Or vision.

    He seems to be absolutely devoid of personality. I've heard of parties being a 'blank sheet of paper' so that people can project what they want onto the party, but Starmer seems to be taking that to unprecedented extremes.
    Yeah, I wonder about this one - so was Attlee.

    The difference was Attlee knew politics, and could do vision and leadership in an understated way, and did shit.
    And Attlee had a host of "big beasts" he could call upon (and fend off!). He also married a Tory.....
    Isn't his son/grandson in the H/L as a Tory peer. They all see sense in the end.
    Or piss in the same pot.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    eek said:

    AlistairM said:

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1364941450899845123

    Maybe make Macron front it to apologise for his previous comments?

    Make Macron and Mrs Macron take it in front of the cameras
    If in the UK, Mrs Macron (as aged over 65) would be entitled to phone up the NHS and get the AZ jaaaa....

    Oh.
  • eek said:

    His seat is Richmond, less than 10 miles down the road.... There will be folk commuting from his constituency.
    Well duh. Northallerton is probably a nicer place to live than Darlo...
    Northallerton is a nicer place is some ways - for communication links though it's a nightmare - you add 20 minutes just getting to the motorway.
    In my biased view Newcastle is a better choice though. We already have some HMRC and the commuter belt feeds just as many Tory constituencies and potential Tory voters. And of course we're also on the ECML and have a bigger and better airport.
    If I was a civil servant I'd want Newcastle too - but it's already got Benton Park View - so its got to go somewhere else....
  • eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    Closest to his constituency ?
    Nope - Red Wall, a need to look at things outside cities but still with decent communication links.

    Where else has an airport, mainline trains and access to multiple (3/4) national parks within an hours drive.
    Leeds already has massive NHS HQ, so can't see it being my old stomping ground.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,237

    If you're working in Darlington then move to Middleton Tyas.

    I speak as a former resident of Middleton Tyas, it broke my heart to leave there.

    Apparently it is a roundabout...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    5 days a week or with more flexibility?
    3 days a week for those who have had had both jabs by the 6th of June.

    There'll be exceptions for those who live/care for people who haven't received both jabs by then.
    That sounds about right.

    I'm looking forward to being a TWAT* commuter.

    (*Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays)
    I'd go with WTF.
    The issue with partly working from home is that to save money you need to spread around the days people are in and people will need to be used to not having their own space / desk.

    And losing that personal space will be a big problem for a lot of people.
  • Nigelb said:

    Closest to his constituency ?
    He's planning to be in No.10 by the time it happens. :smiley:
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    Me too. The movement seems to be to support the smaller towns rather than the big cities.
    Failing Darlo, Bradford.

    I used to live in Darlington. It's nicer than you might think. Well it was in 1997, anyway.
    Still is - we moved here in 98.

    Also it's not going to a City and no one would willingly go to Bradford.
    Pleased to hear it!

    No-one would willingly go to Bradford - but they'd be wrong. I would award Bradford 'most improved city' of the last decade. The city centre is a masterpiece of urban regeneration. In short, they have knocked down all there ugly buildings and replaced them with open space through which you can see the glorious Victoriana. 10 more years on this trajectory and the city will be the most beautiful in Britain. They've done astonishingly well.
    how long was the arndale centre a hole in the ground though.

    There are parts of Bradford I love Saltaire for instance but the town centre has issues and my wife still has nightmares about the throughabout.
    It's the town centre I've got in mind, actually. The improvement in recent years has been astonishing. I'm not claiming that Bradford now equals Florence, but the leap forward is hugely impressive.
  • Curve ball suggestion on 3 day weeks if you got to do that and choose but Monday, Tuesday, Friday.

    4 day weekend each week would be a bit long I think. This was you get 2 weekends each week - and Friday you can check in, do whatever needs sorting, then get back to another weekend.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,549
    Polling shows people support other people paying more tax shock

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/25/tax-rises-party-uk-rewards-voters-pandemic

  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    edited February 2021

    If you're working in Darlington then move to Middleton Tyas.

    I speak as a former resident of Middleton Tyas, it broke my heart to leave there.

    Middleton Tyas, Scorton, Heighington won best place to live in the UK a few years back - there is literally a whole host of villages within 5-10 miles all of which are beautiful.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    We've set the same provisional date too. Flexible working available with everyone eligible for up to 3 days from home and remote working available with the agreement of management. Interestingly they've said no to overseas remote working due to data concerns which has been quite poorly received but management have said anyone who can't live with it will have to go and find a new job.
    There are regulatory, social and cultural issues with outsourcing working overseas, plus it's difficult to get in regularly to team-bond.

    I can't see it becoming routine.
    Tax, mainly, and then employment law.
    Data sharing across borders seems to be the big one. They've let it slide until now because none of this needed formalising until the office became available. My company thinks the people who are threatening to quit are bluffing, mainly because most of them have got houses in and around London.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,237

    The execution of these Northern campuses (whilst a laudable idea) seem a bit tokenistic and daft to me.

    Surely they will only work if in a strategic clusters - not odd blobs of outposts here and there (keeping the London buildings as the main base) that nobody will ever visit.
    With five million on furlough and two million unemployed, an extra debt mountain of 400bn and a structural deficit of 40bn, you may be right.

    Inland Revenue to Nottingham in the early 90s (?) seems to have worked well afaik.
  • Prof Devi Sridhar seems absolutely obsessed with elimination idea.

    But I don't understand either how it could work with an open economy with lots of movement, or why it would even be desired in a post vaccination world given the isolation, costs and risks associated with such a policy.

    New Zealand going isolationist and closing to the world until they get vaccinated makes sense.

    Scotland going isolationist and closing to the world after they get vaccinated makes no sense whatsoever.
    This is the final, hilariously self-unaware tweet of her rant response:

    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364888934975684609?s=20
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    Curve ball suggestion on 3 day weeks if you got to do that and choose but Monday, Tuesday, Friday.

    4 day weekend each week would be a bit long I think. This was you get 2 weekends each week - and Friday you can check in, do whatever needs sorting, then get back to another weekend.

    Depends how commutable the journey is. If you move say 2 hours from the office 3 solid days and staying over is better than that plan.

    It's going to be interesting seeing how things pan out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,216
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    Closest to his constituency ?
    Nope - Red Wall, a need to look at things outside cities but still with decent communication links.

    Where else has an airport, mainline trains and access to multiple (3/4) national parks within an hours drive.
    Leeds.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Was expecting Boris to have announced this on Monday. Maybe this makes it look more "science-driven"....
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    We've set the same provisional date too. Flexible working available with everyone eligible for up to 3 days from home and remote working available with the agreement of management. Interestingly they've said no to overseas remote working due to data concerns which has been quite poorly received but management have said anyone who can't live with it will have to go and find a new job.
    There are regulatory, social and cultural issues with outsourcing working overseas, plus it's difficult to get in regularly to team-bond.

    I can't see it becoming routine.
    Tax, mainly, and then employment law.
    I'm hoping to remote work from the States. From an employment law angle I don't see too much of a problem (which will be incredibly embarrasing if I'm wrong) but I will probably have to become a consultant in view of the cross-border tax issues.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,216
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Why a10 day "go out and spread it" delay in starting the lockdown.
    That's absolutely nuts.

    Jersey discovers cases and announces lockdown three days hence - pubs predictably rammed - huge spike in cases.
    Guernsey discovers cases Friday evening and locks down mid-day Saturday - far fewer cases and much shorter outbreak.
    Isn't it more or less what we did, a few times last year ?

    And yes, it makes no sense at all.
    But they all do it. Austria did it recently re Tirol. Announce a dramatic lockdown.... in a few days.

    There must be some reason. I can't quite figure it out tho. Compassion for people separated from loved ones? But then, a lockdown is a lockdown, it's not meant to be kind.
    Many of us said it was stupid last year. It still is.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    edited February 2021

    eek said:

    His seat is Richmond, less than 10 miles down the road.... There will be folk commuting from his constituency.
    Well duh. Northallerton is probably a nicer place to live than Darlo...
    Northallerton is a nicer place is some ways - for communication links though it's a nightmare - you add 20 minutes just getting to the motorway.
    In my biased view Newcastle is a better choice though. We already have some HMRC and the commuter belt feeds just as many Tory constituencies and potential Tory voters. And of course we're also on the ECML and have a bigger and better airport.
    If I was a civil servant I'd want Newcastle too - but it's already got Benton Park View - so its got to go somewhere else....
    Shall I cover the other secret. For culture Darlington has a 1000 seat theatre (and Stockton will have a 2000 seat one by October)

    Newcastle is 30 minutes drive away, Leeds about 1 hour - Manchester is 2 if you want a band doing the London, Manchester, Glasgow 3 UK date tour.
  • eek said:

    If you're working in Darlington then move to Middleton Tyas.

    I speak as a former resident of Middleton Tyas, it broke my heart to leave there.

    Middleton Tyas, Scorton, Heighington won best place to live in the UK a few years back - there is literally a whole host of villages within 5-10 miles all of which are beautiful.
    God's own country.

    North Yorkshire was the location of the Garden of Eden.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752

    Prof Devi Sridhar seems absolutely obsessed with elimination idea.

    But I don't understand either how it could work with an open economy with lots of movement, or why it would even be desired in a post vaccination world given the isolation, costs and risks associated with such a policy.

    New Zealand going isolationist and closing to the world until they get vaccinated makes sense.

    Scotland going isolationist and closing to the world after they get vaccinated makes no sense whatsoever.
    Feedback I have from younger generation (20 somethings) is that Sturgeon is in danger of making her first significant misstep with her caution strategy. It's been very successful politically to date, but the vaccination success of UKGov has changed the dynamic and the prospect of a humourless clamp down on freedom is going down badly with a demographic which was previously very onside. Expect to see some trimming pretty soon.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    So I'm provisionally returning back to the office on the 5th of July.

    5 days a week or with more flexibility?
    3 days a week for those who have had had both jabs by the 6th of June.

    There'll be exceptions for those who live/care for people who haven't received both jabs by then.
    That sounds about right.

    I'm looking forward to being a TWAT* commuter.

    (*Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays)
    I'd go with WTF.
    Yeah that's what I'm looking at too, especially because we're starting a new team lunch initiative every Friday which every team has been given a pretty big budget for. I think my wife and I will coordinate our WFH days together as well so we get to have lunch and afternoon walks with each other rather than alone. We also joined a local coffee club on facebook of city office workers in our previous area so we'll do the same in our new area too so we have people to have a chat with that have similar interests.
  • Busts a few more myths - "English tourists":

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1364952157183762442?s=20
  • sarissa said:

    And again, why is she not standing for leader?

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1364935500268789768?s=20

    with a 109 majority to defend from when the SNP were weaker than they are now, she's undoubtedly anxious about retaining her seat.
    She's top of the Labour list for West Scotland so I don't think her anxiety levels will be that high.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752

    eek said:

    If you're working in Darlington then move to Middleton Tyas.

    I speak as a former resident of Middleton Tyas, it broke my heart to leave there.

    Middleton Tyas, Scorton, Heighington won best place to live in the UK a few years back - there is literally a whole host of villages within 5-10 miles all of which are beautiful.
    God's own country.

    North Yorkshire was the location of the Garden of Eden.
    North York Moors is quite possibly England's most under-appreciated National Park. It's really rather nice in an understated way and not mobbed out with visitors.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Was expecting Boris to have announced this on Monday. Maybe this makes it look more "science-driven"....
    I think that's probably right.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    Closest to his constituency ?
    Nope - Red Wall, a need to look at things outside cities but still with decent communication links.

    Where else has an airport, mainline trains and access to multiple (3/4) national parks within an hours drive.
    Leeds.
    Already has large parts of the NHS.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Curve ball suggestion on 3 day weeks if you got to do that and choose but Monday, Tuesday, Friday.

    4 day weekend each week would be a bit long I think. This was you get 2 weekends each week - and Friday you can check in, do whatever needs sorting, then get back to another weekend.

    Past, your supposed to be working from home, not take another weekend. :D
  • Prof Devi Sridhar seems absolutely obsessed with elimination idea.

    But I don't understand either how it could work with an open economy with lots of movement, or why it would even be desired in a post vaccination world given the isolation, costs and risks associated with such a policy.

    New Zealand going isolationist and closing to the world until they get vaccinated makes sense.

    Scotland going isolationist and closing to the world after they get vaccinated makes no sense whatsoever.
    This is the final, hilariously self-unaware tweet of her rant response:

    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364888934975684609?s=20
    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364875159891554311?s=19

    This goes to what I said, buying time with no tolerance can make sense to get to the point of vaccines being available. But she's still advocating post vaccination zero tolerance. That's madness.

    PS it's possible the UK and Israel being first nations vaccinated will begin economic recovery quicker than other nations staying shut down.
  • Curve ball suggestion on 3 day weeks if you got to do that and choose but Monday, Tuesday, Friday.

    4 day weekend each week would be a bit long I think. This was you get 2 weekends each week - and Friday you can check in, do whatever needs sorting, then get back to another weekend.

    We have a number of teachers who are on four days a week (normally by choice) and they tend to have either Monday, Friday or Wednesday off. I’ve tried all three and I find Wednesday works best: never more that two days at a time.

    If they are three days a week it’s more likely they will do whatever days I tell them to in order to make the timetable work.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    eek said:

    eek said:

    His seat is Richmond, less than 10 miles down the road.... There will be folk commuting from his constituency.
    Well duh. Northallerton is probably a nicer place to live than Darlo...
    Northallerton is a nicer place is some ways - for communication links though it's a nightmare - you add 20 minutes just getting to the motorway.
    In my biased view Newcastle is a better choice though. We already have some HMRC and the commuter belt feeds just as many Tory constituencies and potential Tory voters. And of course we're also on the ECML and have a bigger and better airport.
    If I was a civil servant I'd want Newcastle too - but it's already got Benton Park View - so its got to go somewhere else....
    Shall I cover the other secret. For culture Darlington has a 1000 seat theatre (and Stockton will have a 2000 seat one by October)

    Newcastle is 30 minutes drive away, Leeds about 1 hour - Manchester is 2 if you want a band doing the London, Manchester, Glasgow 3 UK date tour.
    30 minutes is generous in rush hour but i'll give you that! My old boss used to commute from Darlo to Gateshead. He didn't enjoy it.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    Kier Starmer really has some work to do, doesn't he?

    Sadly, I think he'll either veer off-piste in response to this, or try and triangulate, where what he should really do is unite and lead both sides with a compelling vision.

    I'm not sure he does compelling. Or vision.

    He seems to be absolutely devoid of personality. I've heard of parties being a 'blank sheet of paper' so that people can project what they want onto the party, but Starmer seems to be taking that to unprecedented extremes.
    Yeah, I wonder about this one - so was Attlee.

    The difference was Attlee knew politics, and could do vision and leadership in an understated way, and did shit.
    And Attlee had a host of "big beasts" he could call upon (and fend off!). He also married a Tory.....
    Isn't his son/grandson in the H/L as a Tory peer. They all see sense in the end.
    Or piss in the same pot.
    Whatever.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    Leon said:



    In other words, it is a total, brazen cover-up. Down here in London we are all gawping in amazement that she can get away with this. Yet, in modern Devolved Scotland, it seems that she can?

    Don't be laughable. You live in the zero-accountability nation. When's the last time anyone carried the can for anything in London?

    And no, dropping out of the cabinet for three months of penance doesn't count.

    And for the whatabouters, yes, Mandelson et al, the SNP (allegedly) and the criminally sleazy current crop of Tories are all deserving of the full pitchfork.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,996
    edited February 2021

    eek said:

    If you're working in Darlington then move to Middleton Tyas.

    I speak as a former resident of Middleton Tyas, it broke my heart to leave there.

    Middleton Tyas, Scorton, Heighington won best place to live in the UK a few years back - there is literally a whole host of villages within 5-10 miles all of which are beautiful.
    God's own country.

    North Yorkshire was the location of the Garden of Eden.
    That explains a lot.

    https://twitter.com/GEEPENNIN/status/1362871399052959747?s=20
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Prof Devi Sridhar seems absolutely obsessed with elimination idea.

    But I don't understand either how it could work with an open economy with lots of movement, or why it would even be desired in a post vaccination world given the isolation, costs and risks associated with such a policy.

    New Zealand going isolationist and closing to the world until they get vaccinated makes sense.

    Scotland going isolationist and closing to the world after they get vaccinated makes no sense whatsoever.
    This is the final, hilariously self-unaware tweet of her rant response:

    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364888934975684609?s=20
    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364875159891554311?s=19

    This goes to what I said, buying time with no tolerance can make sense to get to the point of vaccines being available. But she's still advocating post vaccination zero tolerance. That's madness.

    PS it's possible the UK and Israel being first nations vaccinated will begin economic recovery quicker than other nations staying shut down.
    Its almost like Sridhar, and Michie, and a few others, have another agenda.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    eek said:

    eek said:

    His seat is Richmond, less than 10 miles down the road.... There will be folk commuting from his constituency.
    Well duh. Northallerton is probably a nicer place to live than Darlo...
    Northallerton is a nicer place is some ways - for communication links though it's a nightmare - you add 20 minutes just getting to the motorway.
    In my biased view Newcastle is a better choice though. We already have some HMRC and the commuter belt feeds just as many Tory constituencies and potential Tory voters. And of course we're also on the ECML and have a bigger and better airport.
    If I was a civil servant I'd want Newcastle too - but it's already got Benton Park View - so its got to go somewhere else....
    Shall I cover the other secret. For culture Darlington has a 1000 seat theatre (and Stockton will have a 2000 seat one by October)

    Newcastle is 30 minutes drive away, Leeds about 1 hour - Manchester is 2 if you want a band doing the London, Manchester, Glasgow 3 UK date tour.
    30 minutes is generous in rush hour but i'll give you that! My old boss used to commute from Darlo to Gateshead. He didn't enjoy it.
    Used to do Darlo Sunderland for years then Darlo to Cobalt Park

    The latter was weird as I sometimes stayed at my parents flat on the coast at South Shields and the journey time between the Shields coast and Cobalt was only 10 minutes less and way more stressful.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Mango said:

    Leon said:



    In other words, it is a total, brazen cover-up. Down here in London we are all gawping in amazement that she can get away with this. Yet, in modern Devolved Scotland, it seems that she can?

    Don't be laughable. You live in the zero-accountability nation. When's the last time anyone carried the can for anything in London?

    And no, dropping out of the cabinet for three months of penance doesn't count.

    And for the whatabouters, yes, Mandelson et al, the SNP (allegedly) and the criminally sleazy current crop of Tories are all deserving of the full pitchfork.
    The problem is that the Tories are supposed to be the party of sleaze and corruption. It’s priced in. Less so for the SNP ;)
  • Prof Devi Sridhar seems absolutely obsessed with elimination idea.

    But I don't understand either how it could work with an open economy with lots of movement, or why it would even be desired in a post vaccination world given the isolation, costs and risks associated with such a policy.

    New Zealand going isolationist and closing to the world until they get vaccinated makes sense.

    Scotland going isolationist and closing to the world after they get vaccinated makes no sense whatsoever.
    This is the final, hilariously self-unaware tweet of her rant response:

    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364888934975684609?s=20
    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364875159891554311?s=19

    This goes to what I said, buying time with no tolerance can make sense to get to the point of vaccines being available. But she's still advocating post vaccination zero tolerance. That's madness.

    PS it's possible the UK and Israel being first nations vaccinated will begin economic recovery quicker than other nations staying shut down.
    Its almost like Sridhar, and Michie, and a few others, have another agenda.
    No. It's almost as if they're one tracked obsessives incapable of compromising or seeing alternative paths.

    Like you.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356

    Prof Devi Sridhar seems absolutely obsessed with elimination idea.

    But I don't understand either how it could work with an open economy with lots of movement, or why it would even be desired in a post vaccination world given the isolation, costs and risks associated with such a policy.

    New Zealand going isolationist and closing to the world until they get vaccinated makes sense.

    Scotland going isolationist and closing to the world after they get vaccinated makes no sense whatsoever.
    This is the final, hilariously self-unaware tweet of her rant response:

    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364888934975684609?s=20
    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364875159891554311?s=19

    This goes to what I said, buying time with no tolerance can make sense to get to the point of vaccines being available. But she's still advocating post vaccination zero tolerance. That's madness.

    PS it's possible the UK and Israel being first nations vaccinated will begin economic recovery quicker than other nations staying shut down.
    Its almost like Sridhar, and Michie, and a few others, have another agenda.
    In one company I worked at, IT security had a mandate to *anything* to prevent data breaches. Awesome, right?

    Well, it turned out that one of their policies would mean (effectively) shutting down external access. All external access. In a customer facing web based company. Yes, their policy/mandate meant that the company couldn't do business.....

    The mandate was amended....
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Prof Devi Sridhar seems absolutely obsessed with elimination idea.

    But I don't understand either how it could work with an open economy with lots of movement, or why it would even be desired in a post vaccination world given the isolation, costs and risks associated with such a policy.

    New Zealand going isolationist and closing to the world until they get vaccinated makes sense.

    Scotland going isolationist and closing to the world after they get vaccinated makes no sense whatsoever.
    This is the final, hilariously self-unaware tweet of her rant response:

    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364888934975684609?s=20
    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1364875159891554311?s=19

    This goes to what I said, buying time with no tolerance can make sense to get to the point of vaccines being available. But she's still advocating post vaccination zero tolerance. That's madness.

    PS it's possible the UK and Israel being first nations vaccinated will begin economic recovery quicker than other nations staying shut down.
    Its almost like Sridhar, and Michie, and a few others, have another agenda.
    No. It's almost as if they're one tracked obsessives incapable of compromising or seeing alternative paths.

    Like you.
    Quite. I am sure no scientist on earth has ever let their politics get in the way of their scientific 'judgement' LOL
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Macron and Merkel, this is what you could have won.....
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Rumours the Euros will entirely be in England.... Macron and Merkel would hate that
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Leon said:
    Mhh that might not be a universal position
This discussion has been closed.