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While we wait for Johnson’s “road map” is Carrie the one who is really in charge? – politicalbetting

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited February 22 in General
imageWhile we wait for Johnson’s “road map” is Carrie the one who is really in charge? – politicalbetting.com

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  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 13,103
    FPT. It’s very demoralising to be looking at effectively another 2 months of isolation at the very least.

    Is there any word on universities?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093
    Are we still waiting? I thought it had all been leaked to about twelve different outlets.
  • Funny how twelve months ago all the talk was that Cummings was the Wormtongue power behind the throne and always will be. Now its Carrie people complain about.

    Either way though the operations and PR of the government seem to have got a lot sharper since "Carrie took over". Is there anyone here who'd prefer Cummings back instead?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093
    Incidentally Justin is going to go completely bursar when he sees the remarks about Marcia Williams!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093

    Funny how twelve months ago all the talk was that Cummings was the Wormtongue power behind the throne and always will be. Now its Carrie people complain about.

    Either way though the operations and PR of the government seem to have got a lot sharper since "Carrie took over". Is there anyone here who'd prefer Cummings back instead?

    I’d be willing to consider a different PM instead. Does that count?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,769
    edited February 22
    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally Justin is going to go completely bursar when he sees the remarks about Marcia Williams!

    The Bursar. The one the Vikings kept on the boat, until all was lost... Meanwhile, he ran the tuck shop.
  • Certainly Lady Campbell-Bannerman exerted some influence over HER husband. For example, when his party colleagues wanted to "kick him upstairs" to the Lords just after he'd led the Liberals to their (last) electoral triumph in 1906, and he considered resigning, it was Sir Henry C-B's wife who told him to pull up his socks, and fight for his right to be Prime Minister. Which he did, and he won.

    This year, and in this case, is Carrie on the cusp of becoming that fairly uncommon thing, a prime ministerial (or presidential) spouse/partner who did NOT help (for the most part & with most voters) their beloved's image & popularity. For example, Nancy Reagan, Hillary Clinton & Cherie Blair.

    My own guess is, Carrie is NOT heading down that route, manly because she is NOT doing things that most (or mostly) normal people find offensive or strange. Her giving Boris a piece of her mind from time to time might strike the Bow Group as suspicious, but hard to think the Great British Public is gonna feel the same way.

    AND keep in mind that Nancy Reagan DID get Ronnie to fire his chief of staff, Don Regan, and with scant ceremony, when he tried to best her in the White House wars. He found out (as did others during the Clinton administration) that briefing and leaking against the First Lady was NOT a smart thing to do, as the Family Quarters can beat the West Wing almost every time. It's (literally) trying to beat the house.
  • ydoethur said:

    Funny how twelve months ago all the talk was that Cummings was the Wormtongue power behind the throne and always will be. Now its Carrie people complain about.

    Either way though the operations and PR of the government seem to have got a lot sharper since "Carrie took over". Is there anyone here who'd prefer Cummings back instead?

    I’d be willing to consider a different PM instead. Does that count?
    Eventually. 2027 would be my guess for his departure.

    In the meantime who'd you prefer advising him?
  • The improvement since Cummings has gone has been very obvious and if Carrie is contributing I have no problem with that at all
  • SmithersSmithers Posts: 24
    edited February 22
    Totally agree with Mike and Big G above. William Hague got this spot on yesterday:

    https://news.sky.com/story/william-hague-says-you-can-smell-the-improvement-in-government-without-cummings-and-cain-12224463
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 12,134
    How do we get rid of this unelected bureaucrat?
  • I hear gossip around Westminster, that back in HER heyday, Catherine of Aragon was accused of exerting undue influence over government policy and personnel. BUT that she was nevertheless rather popular with the average punter.

    Was that true for Kate. both way? And is it true today for Carrie?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093

    ydoethur said:

    Funny how twelve months ago all the talk was that Cummings was the Wormtongue power behind the throne and always will be. Now its Carrie people complain about.

    Either way though the operations and PR of the government seem to have got a lot sharper since "Carrie took over". Is there anyone here who'd prefer Cummings back instead?

    I’d be willing to consider a different PM instead. Does that count?
    Eventually. 2027 would be my guess for his departure.

    In the meantime who'd you prefer advising him?
    You mean, apart from the denizens of PB?
  • Scott_xP said:

    How do we get rid of this unelected bureaucrat?

    Advisors aren't bureaucrats.

    Advisors advise, ministers decide.

    0/10 must try harder.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 6,864

    FPT. It’s very demoralising to be looking at effectively another 2 months of isolation at the very least.

    Is there any word on universities?

    Speculation that they might get the nod in the late April phase, but nothing more.

    I found myself thinking last night that there's a reasonable chance that I might finally be able to travel and do parental visits in June - but that's still about four months away, and it'll be the best part of a year since the last ones by the time that rolls around, so yes it is total bloody rubbish. The only good thing to be said about the whole rotten situation is that at least we are getting there and we can have a reasonable expectation that these evil lockdowns aren't going to continue indefinitely.

    Now we just have to keep everything crossed that throwing all the schools open at once isn't too precipitous an act.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093

    Scott_xP said:

    How do we get rid of this unelected bureaucrat?

    Advisors aren't bureaucrats.

    Advisors advise, ministers decide.

    0/10 must try harder.
    One of the points we should bear in mind (if these press reports are accurate) is that they show the PM really is making his own decisions, not those of SAGE. They want to keep schools shut for another couple of weeks.

    Admittedly he may be listening to the advice of the DfE instead given they are absolutely desperate to reopen schools at once at any cost (except financial ones, which they are refusing to meet).

    It could be a terrible blunder given how useless they all are, but it does show the idea that SAGE are lizard people who have captured the government is well wide of the mark.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093

    FPT. It’s very demoralising to be looking at effectively another 2 months of isolation at the very least.

    Is there any word on universities?

    Speculation that they might get the nod in the late April phase, but nothing more.

    I found myself thinking last night that there's a reasonable chance that I might finally be able to travel and do parental visits in June - but that's still about four months away, and it'll be the best part of a year since the last ones by the time that rolls around, so yes it is total bloody rubbish. The only good thing to be said about the whole rotten situation is that at least we are getting there and we can have a reasonable expectation that these evil lockdowns aren't going to continue indefinitely.

    Now we just have to keep everything crossed that throwing all the schools open at once isn't too precipitous an act.
    I’ll answer that for you. It is.

    What we need to hope instead is that it doesn’t lead to a spike in cases among vulnerable parents. That’s the danger point (and I think is why the age group with most parents in it is reluctant to see schools reopened fully).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 12,134
    From the Times


  • Once again, am appealing to those PBers with massive influence in powerful circles (or visa versa) to assist yours truly in securing massive investment from the UK government so that I may research and develop my exciting new ideas for the emergent infrastructure and vibrant economy (and visa versa) of the impending mid-21st century.

    For example, a subterranean water tunnel for commuter & pleasure traffic from Lutton to Liverpool Station that can double as an emergency sewer & storm water drain. Imaging traveling to work (or play) in a fast-moving glass-covered cigar-shaped tube, observing the profusion of aquatic life (and death) swimming - floating - decomposing just inches outside of the window as you hurtle through the murk toward adventures yet unknown, a modern-day Captain Nemo!

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 50,313
    edited February 22
    Facebook Memories showed up yesterday a picture from last year; a year ago yesterday was the last time I went to visit in person my grandparents with their great grandchildren. By March we'd made the decision it was unsafe to do so again.

    At their age there's always a nagging thought that any time I see them has the potential to be the last but never did I seriously think a year could pass without seeing them again. *Touch wood* they'll continue to outlast this bastard bug but this time, time for them to get to see their great grandchildren grow up - and their great grandchildren to form memories with them - is precious time lost that will never be regained.

    The sooner we can put this all behind us the better.
  • I hear gossip around Westminster, that back in HER heyday, Catherine of Aragon was accused of exerting undue influence over government policy and personnel. BUT that she was nevertheless rather popular with the average punter.

    Was that true for Kate. both way? And is it true today for Carrie?

    The problem for Johnson is that if he returns to his philandering ways then he risks Carrie becoming Isabella, the She-Wolf of Downing Street.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 12,134

    The problem for Johnson is that if he returns to his philandering ways

    Is that the safest bet ever posted here?
  • Scott_xP said:

    From the Times


    Personally think the worst political mistake the anti-Carrie cabal has been making, is by briefing against her little dog, Dyln (or however you spell the mutt's name).

    Believe it was former Vice President John Nance "Cactus Jack" Garner who used to say to Senators who criticized his proposals (or his president, at least before 1938) "Now don't you go kickin' my dog around!"

    Still good advice.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 21,455
    Good morning fellow denizens. (see above).

    I think OGH has been reading Private Eye. Carrie, and Allegra's, domination of No 10 has been the subject of their regular feature on the PM ....... think Mrs Wilson's Diary ..... since shortly after Cumming's departure.

    And IIRC, while there were allegations of an 'special' relationship between Wilson and his secretary they were never admitted, and indeed Wilson sued someone who suggested it, and won.
  • felixfelix Posts: 12,170
    Scott_xP said:

    How do we get rid of this unelected bureaucrat?

    Dunno - Ursula VDL is untouchable at the top of the EU. Any ideas?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 21,835

    The improvement since Cummings has gone has been very obvious and if Carrie is contributing I have no problem with that at all

    A definite improvement, but it does rather ask the question "does he have any ideas of his own?"

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093
    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How do we get rid of this unelected bureaucrat?

    Dunno - Ursula VDL is untouchable at the top of the EU. Any ideas?
    Give her the AZ vaccine, which will mean she’s stripped of her German citizenship and becomes ineligible?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 21,455

    Facebook Memories showed up yesterday a picture from last year; a year ago yesterday was the last time I went to visit in person my grandparents with their great grandchildren. By March we'd made the decision it was unsafe to do so again.

    At their age there's always a nagging thought that any time I see them has the potential to be the last but never did I seriously think a year could pass without seeing them again. *Touch wood* they'll continue to outlast this bastard bug but this time, time for them to get to see their great grandchildren grow up - and their great grandchildren to form memories with them - is precious time lost that will never be regained.

    The sooner we can put this all behind us the better.

    My paternal grandmother was my last surviving grandparent; when she was a little older than I am now she took to 'feeling ill' increasingly often and her family would all go to see her. (She lived about 10 miles away). One evening my mother phoned to say that 'Grandma wasn't feeling well again'; I said that I had a bit of a cold, so it wouldn't be wise to go and see her.

    The next morning my mother phoned again to say that Grandma ha died overnight!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 12,134
    Foxy said:

    A definite improvement, but it does rather ask the question "does he have any ideas of his own?"

    When Cummings was there, the chain of command was clear.

    Now there are openly warring factions.

    It is not clear who will win the Game of Thrones, but the best solution remains (as ever) to replace BoZo
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093
    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    A definite improvement, but it does rather ask the question "does he have any ideas of his own?"

    When Cummings was there, the chain of command was clear.

    Now there are openly warring factions.

    It is not clear who will win the Game of Thrones, but the best solution remains (as ever) to replace BoZo
    The dragons were important, so Drakeford must be in the frame.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,769
    Scott_xP said:

    From the Times


    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 15,794
    edited February 22
    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    A definite improvement, but it does rather ask the question "does he have any ideas of his own?"

    When Cummings was there, the chain of command was clear.

    Now there are openly warring factions.

    It is not clear who will win the Game of Thrones, but the best solution remains (as ever) to replace BoZo
    Are you suggesting that Carrie should walk naked up Whitehall or that Priti Patel will be seen flying Dragons in and out of Heathrow?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 2,973
    edited February 22
    The "Dudley Dooright of the Mounties" sketchs in the "Rocky & Bullwinkle" cartoons featured plots involving Dudley, Little Nell, her father Colonel Fenwick, Snidley Whiplash & etc., the brains of the outfit invariably turned out to be Dudley's horse.

    Wonder if it's the same now with Carrie & the PM's pup? The Top Dog of No. 10 Downing Street?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 15,794

    Scott_xP said:

    From the Times


    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.
    In what sense is any of this the last laugh? We know Boris is volatile and haphazard. At Christmas his own side were calling him to go, that might easily be the case in a few weeks. I find Tories increasingly erratic, up one minute down the next.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093
    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    From the Times


    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.
    In what sense is any of this the last laugh? We know Boris is volatile and haphazard. At Christmas his own side were calling him to go, that might easily be the case in a few weeks. I find Tories increasingly erratic, up one minute down the next.
    Johnson has always been up one minute, down the next...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 12,134

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
  • Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,769
    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    You are a bitter fucker, aren't you?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    You are a bitter fucker, aren't you?
    Whereas Johnson is a bit of a...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 12,134
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 15,794

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 5,924
    edited February 22
    It's all a bit bad tempered this morning.

    Morning all, and I'll see you again for the speech.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093
    edited February 22
    Incidentally, many congratulations to World no. 81 Jordan Brown for a sensational maiden title win at the Welsh Open, against no less a player than Mr R. O’Sullivan.

    Jordan Brown beats Ronnie O'Sullivan in the final frame to win 2021 Welsh Open

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/56142654
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093
    MattW said:

    It's all a bit bad tempered this morning.

    Morning all, and I'll see you again for the speech.

    Boris Johnson getting lost his own roadmap is likely to be more bad tempered.
  • ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How do we get rid of this unelected bureaucrat?

    Advisors aren't bureaucrats.

    Advisors advise, ministers decide.

    0/10 must try harder.
    One of the points we should bear in mind (if these press reports are accurate) is that they show the PM really is making his own decisions, not those of SAGE. They want to keep schools shut for another couple of weeks.

    Admittedly he may be listening to the advice of the DfE instead given they are absolutely desperate to reopen schools at once at any cost (except financial ones, which they are refusing to meet).

    It could be a terrible blunder given how useless they all are, but it does show the idea that SAGE are lizard people who have captured the government is well wide of the mark.
    Good.

    Children have suffered enough blows to their education. If the NHS isn't at risk of collapse then schools should be open.
  • Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 6,294

    I hear gossip around Westminster, that back in HER heyday, Catherine of Aragon was accused of exerting undue influence over government policy and personnel. BUT that she was nevertheless rather popular with the average punter.

    Was that true for Kate. both way? And is it true today for Carrie?

    The problem for Johnson is that if he returns to his philandering ways then he risks Carrie becoming Isabella, the She-Wolf of Downing Street.
    She swallowed her pride and came back after 🎻gate so you'd have wonder what it would take to get her to bail.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 16,201

    I remember back in Blair's era there was a lot of snide remarking about the influence of Cherie upon the then PM. Don't remember anyone actually being stupid enough to call for an inquiry though.

    I am no fan of Johnson even now but this is just petty and pretty cowardly.

    Cherie said "we in the government" during some event or something, and that got a lot of people upset.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 15,794

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
    Hmmm, I’m not sure which claim is sillier the idea that he had no influence on policy before he became PM or the idea that he was personally involved in vaccines or genomic sequencing.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,875
    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, many congratulations to World no. 81 Jordan Brown for a sensational maiden title win at the Welsh Open, against no less a player than Mr R. O’Sullivan.

    Jordan Brown beats Ronnie O'Sullivan in the final frame to win 2021 Welsh Open

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/56142654

    as a huge Ronnie fan , good to see him smiling and doing a "good Ronnie" speech at the end congratulating the winner. Brown was obviously highly emotional and more so for beating Ronnie .Ronnie (by no means thick and certainly by no means emotionally unintelligent) saw that and was almost as happy as Brown was that he won
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 32,160

    I remember back in Blair's era there was a lot of snide remarking about the influence of Cherie upon the then PM. Don't remember anyone actually being stupid enough to call for an inquiry though.

    I am no fan of Johnson even now but this is just petty and pretty cowardly.

    The relevant point is not the what but the who (and possibly the why). It comes from a group of established Tories who have known him for a long time. They know he isn’t up to doing the detailed hard work of the job and know that he isn’t interested in doing so. Thus they know that someone else must be doing it.

    Why they chose now to go public, I cannot guess.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,875
    Jonathan said:

    Different, and slightly worrying, tone from the government these days. It’s as if in releasing lockdown they are bestowing freedoms upon a what should be a grateful nation, rather that restoring the freedoms we have by right that they have taken away. A touch authoritarian.

    yes indeed. Glad to see yesterday that people are ignoring the OTT ban on recreation in parks and that all the benches and tables were taken by people (god forbid) drinking coffee or (hail mary) eating something. Great that this might be officially allowed in 2 weeks time but glad to see people doing it anyway now and effectively telling the government you aren't in control of people's lives to this extent
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 21,835
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
    Hmmm, I’m not sure which claim is sillier the idea that he had no influence on policy before he became PM or the idea that he was personally involved in vaccines or genomic sequencing.
    C'mon man!

    BoZo must have visited every vaccine centre in the land by now. He has even being trained in how to wipe down a chair. Who can doubt his scientific nous?
  • Facebook Memories showed up yesterday a picture from last year; a year ago yesterday was the last time I went to visit in person my grandparents with their great grandchildren. By March we'd made the decision it was unsafe to do so again.

    At their age there's always a nagging thought that any time I see them has the potential to be the last but never did I seriously think a year could pass without seeing them again. *Touch wood* they'll continue to outlast this bastard bug but this time, time for them to get to see their great grandchildren grow up - and their great grandchildren to form memories with them - is precious time lost that will never be regained.

    The sooner we can put this all behind us the better.

    My paternal grandmother was my last surviving grandparent; when she was a little older than I am now she took to 'feeling ill' increasingly often and her family would all go to see her. (She lived about 10 miles away). One evening my mother phoned to say that 'Grandma wasn't feeling well again'; I said that I had a bit of a cold, so it wouldn't be wise to go and see her.

    The next morning my mother phoned again to say that Grandma ha died overnight!
    Spike Milligan wanted his gravestone to read "I told you I was ill".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 36,093

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, many congratulations to World no. 81 Jordan Brown for a sensational maiden title win at the Welsh Open, against no less a player than Mr R. O’Sullivan.

    Jordan Brown beats Ronnie O'Sullivan in the final frame to win 2021 Welsh Open

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/56142654

    as a huge Ronnie fan , good to see him smiling and doing a "good Ronnie" speech at the end congratulating the winner. Brown was obviously highly emotional and more so for beating Ronnie .Ronnie (by no means thick and certainly by no means emotionally unintelligent) saw that and was almost as happy as Brown was that he won
    As somebody who is certainly not a huge fan of ROS, it was good to see him so relaxed and gracious in defeat. Hopefully a sign that his mental demons are at last subsiding.

    Have good day.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,875
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, many congratulations to World no. 81 Jordan Brown for a sensational maiden title win at the Welsh Open, against no less a player than Mr R. O’Sullivan.

    Jordan Brown beats Ronnie O'Sullivan in the final frame to win 2021 Welsh Open

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/56142654

    as a huge Ronnie fan , good to see him smiling and doing a "good Ronnie" speech at the end congratulating the winner. Brown was obviously highly emotional and more so for beating Ronnie .Ronnie (by no means thick and certainly by no means emotionally unintelligent) saw that and was almost as happy as Brown was that he won
    As somebody who is certainly not a huge fan of ROS, it was good to see him so relaxed and gracious in defeat. Hopefully a sign that his mental demons are at last subsiding.

    Have good day.
    Love Ronnies bit of the speech where he says " ---i mean I played well and when i play well very few people beat me" .Typical Ronnie being honest, big headed but in his way gracious as well.Sport will miss him when he is gone!
  • ydoethur said:

    Incidentally Justin is going to go completely bursar when he sees the remarks about Marcia Williams!

    Quick, give him some dried frog pills.
  • I also think there's an element of snobbishness here at Carrie Symonds' status as fiancé.

    In Harry Enfield's hugely underestimated 'Norman Ormal' parody of 90s politics, Norman Ormal MP is told to leave his mistress and go back to his wife. The parody of Julian Critchley explains this by saying "My dear, the Conservatives have never been fond of the permanent partner".
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 12,134
    Stereodog said:

    I also think there's an element of snobbishness here at Carrie Symonds' status as fiancé.

    In Harry Enfield's hugely underestimated 'Norman Ormal' parody of 90s politics, Norman Ormal MP is told to leave his mistress and go back to his wife. The parody of Julian Critchley explains this by saying "My dear, the Conservatives have never been fond of the permanent partner".

    BoZo has never been fond of the permanent partner either
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,769

    Facebook Memories showed up yesterday a picture from last year; a year ago yesterday was the last time I went to visit in person my grandparents with their great grandchildren. By March we'd made the decision it was unsafe to do so again.

    At their age there's always a nagging thought that any time I see them has the potential to be the last but never did I seriously think a year could pass without seeing them again. *Touch wood* they'll continue to outlast this bastard bug but this time, time for them to get to see their great grandchildren grow up - and their great grandchildren to form memories with them - is precious time lost that will never be regained.

    The sooner we can put this all behind us the better.

    My paternal grandmother was my last surviving grandparent; when she was a little older than I am now she took to 'feeling ill' increasingly often and her family would all go to see her. (She lived about 10 miles away). One evening my mother phoned to say that 'Grandma wasn't feeling well again'; I said that I had a bit of a cold, so it wouldn't be wise to go and see her.

    The next morning my mother phoned again to say that Grandma ha died overnight!
    Spike Milligan wanted his gravestone to read "I told you I was ill".
    He got his wish:

    "Spike Milligan's epitaph includes the phrase Dúirt mé leat go raibh mé breoite, Irish for "I told you I was ill"....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 29,998

    Facebook Memories showed up yesterday a picture from last year; a year ago yesterday was the last time I went to visit in person my grandparents with their great grandchildren. By March we'd made the decision it was unsafe to do so again.

    At their age there's always a nagging thought that any time I see them has the potential to be the last but never did I seriously think a year could pass without seeing them again. *Touch wood* they'll continue to outlast this bastard bug but this time, time for them to get to see their great grandchildren grow up - and their great grandchildren to form memories with them - is precious time lost that will never be regained.

    The sooner we can put this all behind us the better.

    My paternal grandmother was my last surviving grandparent; when she was a little older than I am now she took to 'feeling ill' increasingly often and her family would all go to see her. (She lived about 10 miles away). One evening my mother phoned to say that 'Grandma wasn't feeling well again'; I said that I had a bit of a cold, so it wouldn't be wise to go and see her.

    The next morning my mother phoned again to say that Grandma ha died overnight!
    Spike Milligan wanted his gravestone to read "I told you I was ill".
    Which it does - in Irish, after the church objected to it in English!
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Milligan
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,497
    Scott_xP said:

    Stereodog said:

    I also think there's an element of snobbishness here at Carrie Symonds' status as fiancé.

    In Harry Enfield's hugely underestimated 'Norman Ormal' parody of 90s politics, Norman Ormal MP is told to leave his mistress and go back to his wife. The parody of Julian Critchley explains this by saying "My dear, the Conservatives have never been fond of the permanent partner".

    BoZo has never been fond of the permanent partner either
    But at least he's done his best to boost the birth rate.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 13,962
    What a shame. A little more guile and we could have had Jennifer Arcuri ruling us

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/16/jennifer-arcuri-admits-to-boris-johnson-affair
  • The improvement since Cummings has gone has been very obvious and if Carrie is contributing I have no problem with that at all

    Indeed. Whilst the Cummings-era government were just as corrupt and inept as now, it took his departure for the likes of the Health Secretary to be ruled unlawful by the High Court, or for the fool Williamson to start legal action against LEAs for their crime of doing what he was to order them to do just days later.

    If we can thank Carrie for the new depths of stupidity then she has done a Good Job.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 21,455

    Facebook Memories showed up yesterday a picture from last year; a year ago yesterday was the last time I went to visit in person my grandparents with their great grandchildren. By March we'd made the decision it was unsafe to do so again.

    At their age there's always a nagging thought that any time I see them has the potential to be the last but never did I seriously think a year could pass without seeing them again. *Touch wood* they'll continue to outlast this bastard bug but this time, time for them to get to see their great grandchildren grow up - and their great grandchildren to form memories with them - is precious time lost that will never be regained.

    The sooner we can put this all behind us the better.

    My paternal grandmother was my last surviving grandparent; when she was a little older than I am now she took to 'feeling ill' increasingly often and her family would all go to see her. (She lived about 10 miles away). One evening my mother phoned to say that 'Grandma wasn't feeling well again'; I said that I had a bit of a cold, so it wouldn't be wise to go and see her.

    The next morning my mother phoned again to say that Grandma ha died overnight!
    Spike Milligan wanted his gravestone to read "I told you I was ill".
    That's rather how we felt! Long time ago now though; nearly 60 years. Wounds have healed.
  • I remember back in Blair's era there was a lot of snide remarking about the influence of Cherie upon the then PM. Don't remember anyone actually being stupid enough to call for an inquiry though.

    I am no fan of Johnson even now but this is just petty and pretty cowardly.

    The upset suffered by the Bow Group is that they believe *they* should be the power manipulating Zaphod Beeblebrox, not his latest totty.
  • Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    You are a bitter fucker, aren't you?
    Surely it is the friends and family of the dead who should be bitter. That you can utterly dismiss their lives and their loss for political point scoring should be an outrage, but little is these days.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 3,077
    Picture looks like an outtake from Wandavision...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 29,998
    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, many congratulations to World no. 81 Jordan Brown for a sensational maiden title win at the Welsh Open, against no less a player than Mr R. O’Sullivan.

    Jordan Brown beats Ronnie O'Sullivan in the final frame to win 2021 Welsh Open

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/56142654

    Congratulations to him, some achievement to beat Ronnie in a final, he doesn’t lose many.

    Can’t believe it was 24 years ago that Rocket made Mick Price sit down for only five minutes, I remember watching this like it was yesterday.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
    Hmmm, I’m not sure which claim is sillier the idea that he had no influence on policy before he became PM or the idea that he was personally involved in vaccines or genomic sequencing.
    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to set up and pay for COGUK?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with setting up and paying for the vaccine taskforce?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to reject opposition advice about joining the EU scheme instead?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 32,160

    I remember back in Blair's era there was a lot of snide remarking about the influence of Cherie upon the then PM. Don't remember anyone actually being stupid enough to call for an inquiry though.

    I am no fan of Johnson even now but this is just petty and pretty cowardly.

    The upset suffered by the Bow Group is that they believe *they* should be the power manipulating Zaphod Beeblebrox, not his latest totty.
    Nevertheless the fact that this is Tory-on-Tory makes it more relevant than if it were simply the opposition trying to stir things up.

    It is all rather like a former teacher wondering why their previously wayward pupil is suddenly giving his homework in on time.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 32,160

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
    Hmmm, I’m not sure which claim is sillier the idea that he had no influence on policy before he became PM or the idea that he was personally involved in vaccines or genomic sequencing.
    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to set up and pay for COGUK?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with setting up and paying for the vaccine taskforce?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to reject opposition advice about joining the EU scheme instead?
    Vallance and other scientists told him in no uncertain terms that the country couldn't bear another absolute f**k up like the PPE procurement fiasco.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
    Hmmm, I’m not sure which claim is sillier the idea that he had no influence on policy before he became PM or the idea that he was personally involved in vaccines or genomic sequencing.
    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to set up and pay for COGUK?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with setting up and paying for the vaccine taskforce?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to reject opposition advice about joining the EU scheme instead?
    OK, lets step back a minute. If Shagger is so good at setting things up - say the vaccine taskforce - then why is Track and Trace such a godawful disaster?

    If he was the driving force behind COGUK then logically the argument is that the genomic sequencing body had no idea that it needed to sequence Covid until Boris suggested they do so.

    Really? Its as laughable as the "argument" that Jezbollah was a driving force behind peace in Norniron.
  • IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
    Hmmm, I’m not sure which claim is sillier the idea that he had no influence on policy before he became PM or the idea that he was personally involved in vaccines or genomic sequencing.
    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to set up and pay for COGUK?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with setting up and paying for the vaccine taskforce?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to reject opposition advice about joining the EU scheme instead?
    Vallance and other scientists told him in no uncertain terms that the country couldn't bear another absolute f**k up like the PPE procurement fiasco.
    Perhaps but even if true then the buck still stops with him. Ministers decide and that's the good as well as the bad.

    If the EU had vaccines and we didn't would you be saying that had nothing to do with him?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 39,354
    vaccine minister struggles on r4 to explain why detailed stats on vaccine rollout in england are not available.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
    Hmmm, I’m not sure which claim is sillier the idea that he had no influence on policy before he became PM or the idea that he was personally involved in vaccines or genomic sequencing.
    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to set up and pay for COGUK?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with setting up and paying for the vaccine taskforce?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to reject opposition advice about joining the EU scheme instead?
    OK, lets step back a minute. If Shagger is so good at setting things up - say the vaccine taskforce - then why is Track and Trace such a godawful disaster?

    If he was the driving force behind COGUK then logically the argument is that the genomic sequencing body had no idea that it needed to sequence Covid until Boris suggested they do so.

    Really? Its as laughable as the "argument" that Jezbollah was a driving force behind peace in Norniron.
    Track and Trace isn't a disaster. It's catching over 90% of known contacts now and is estimated to be reducing R by the same amount as school closures. It had teething problems and took months to get up to speed, so did vaccine manufacturing. People had more patience with vaccines though.

    COGUK didn't exist pre pandemic. Pre existing expertise did but it was set up and given funding and priorities under Boris's government. That the UK by December had generated half the world's sequences and you think it has nothing to do at all with the UK PM shows you've lost all impartiality.

    If Jezbollah had been PM then he'd have deserved kudos for NI. He wasn't don't be ridiculous.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 13,962

    Funny how twelve months ago all the talk was that Cummings was the Wormtongue power behind the throne and always will be. Now its Carrie people complain about.

    Either way though the operations and PR of the government seem to have got a lot sharper since "Carrie took over". Is there anyone here who'd prefer Cummings back instead?

    That's the great thing about a vacuum. It gets filled. Everyone knows Johnson has no ability whatsoever other than to parade in fancy dress so people just assume we're being led by someone. It used to be Gove. Now it's Carrie. It'll be his Dad next if he gets back from France
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 29,998

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
    Hmmm, I’m not sure which claim is sillier the idea that he had no influence on policy before he became PM or the idea that he was personally involved in vaccines or genomic sequencing.
    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to set up and pay for COGUK?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with setting up and paying for the vaccine taskforce?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to reject opposition advice about joining the EU scheme instead?
    Vallance and other scientists told him in no uncertain terms that the country couldn't bear another absolute f**k up like the PPE procurement fiasco.
    Perhaps but even if true then the buck still stops with him. Ministers decide and that's the good as well as the bad.

    If the EU had vaccines and we didn't would you be saying that had nothing to do with him?
    The way in which the vaccine programme was set up and run, also looks like it has Cummings’s fingerprints all over it. It mirrors everything he’s said about how government should be working for years.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 32,160

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
    Hmmm, I’m not sure which claim is sillier the idea that he had no influence on policy before he became PM or the idea that he was personally involved in vaccines or genomic sequencing.
    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to set up and pay for COGUK?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with setting up and paying for the vaccine taskforce?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to reject opposition advice about joining the EU scheme instead?
    Vallance and other scientists told him in no uncertain terms that the country couldn't bear another absolute f**k up like the PPE procurement fiasco.
    Perhaps but even if true then the buck still stops with him. Ministers decide and that's the good as well as the bad.

    If the EU had vaccines and we didn't would you be saying that had nothing to do with him?
    Yes, he deserves some credit for keeping away from it and keeping the bunch of dodgy incompetents that he surrounds himself with well away from it as well. That doesn't however make it a great personal achievement.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,931

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
    Hmmm, I’m not sure which claim is sillier the idea that he had no influence on policy before he became PM or the idea that he was personally involved in vaccines or genomic sequencing.
    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to set up and pay for COGUK?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with setting up and paying for the vaccine taskforce?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to reject opposition advice about joining the EU scheme instead?
    OK, lets step back a minute. If Shagger is so good at setting things up - say the vaccine taskforce - then why is Track and Trace such a godawful disaster?

    If he was the driving force behind COGUK then logically the argument is that the genomic sequencing body had no idea that it needed to sequence Covid until Boris suggested they do so.

    Really? Its as laughable as the "argument" that Jezbollah was a driving force behind peace in Norniron.
    I am trying to remember which French General was asked, by a journalist, if he had been personally responsible for stopping the Germans in 1914.

    When asked, he paused, thought, then said that he was quite sure that if he had been defeated, he would have been given all the blame.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 29,456
    Smithers said:
    On top of everything else, he has BO ?
    If not for Covid, he might not have lasted so long...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 2,534
    Is that the best the Bow Group can do? Desperation. The issue of where PMs and ministers get their advice from is of interest and good gossip but of no constitutional relevance until Parliament - who actually have the job of deciding who runs the country except at General Elections - feels that they don't like the current mob any more; or the Tory MPs decide the same. Nothing to see here.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 13,962

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
    Hmmm, I’m not sure which claim is sillier the idea that he had no influence on policy before he became PM or the idea that he was personally involved in vaccines or genomic sequencing.
    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to set up and pay for COGUK?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with setting up and paying for the vaccine taskforce?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to reject opposition advice about joining the EU scheme instead?
    The Kumbaya boys are back! ....Felix....Sandpit.....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 29,456
    Fewer than half of Koreans willing to receive COVID-19 vaccine shots now: poll
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2021/02/119_304407.html
    Less than half of South Koreans are willing to receive COVID-19 vaccine shots immediately, without waiting for further reports on those vaccines' effects, an opinion poll showed Monday.

    In the survey conducted on 1,020 people aged 18 or over by the Korea Society Opinion Institute from last Friday to Saturday, only 45.8 percent said they are willing to be vaccinated "right away" when their turn for COVID-19 vaccine shots comes.

    Another 45.7 percent responded they will delay their vaccinations to "watch the situation" regarding the vaccines' effects, while 5.1 percent said they will refuse vaccine shots entirely, according to the poll result. The remaining 3.4 percent said they are not sure.

    The survey also showed that 55.8 percent of the respondents have confidence in the government's handling of the national vaccination program, while 41.1 percent have distrust....


    A (far) lower death rate clearly makes people more picky or cautious about vaccines.
    Can't imagine it would be anywhere near as low if they'd had out experience.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 13,996

    Scott_xP said:

    From the Times


    Personally think the worst political mistake the anti-Carrie cabal has been making, is by briefing against her little dog, Dyln (or however you spell the mutt's name).

    Believe it was former Vice President John Nance "Cactus Jack" Garner who used to say to Senators who criticized his proposals (or his president, at least before 1938) "Now don't you go kickin' my dog around!"

    Still good advice.
    You're on fine form today. :lol:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 32,160
    DavidL said:

    The government has been more cohesive and much better at its messaging over the last couple of months. I think Cummings is a very able guy, brilliant at identifying wedge issues, coming up with those pithy soundbites and happy to run right over pompous windbags inflated with their own self importance but useful though these skills are in a campaign they do not lead to harmonious government.

    I know as little as the next person on this and certainly less than some on this board but it does seem to me that the appointment of Allegra Stratton in November was the changing point and I would be minded to give her a lot of the credit. If Carrie played a role in getting her appointed and in giving her the political heft to bring others into line she has done Boris a considerable favour.

    Today will be a good test. Pre November Boris would have been bombastic, overly optimistic and too ready to let his natural inclination to let people get on with it be evident. I suspect we will see a more measured, Prime Ministerial performance today with caution and more consistent messaging with just the odd Borisism to remind us who he is.

    Let's hope so. Some around him are suggesting that, having been too relaxed and cavalier at the outset he is so stung by his initial failures that we now risk excessive caution.

    I can envisage a scenario where he maps out a slow pained emergence from our current restrictions, which will have to be torn up (again!) when the combination of vaccination and summer weather ends the wave of new cases and so the pressure to open up quickly becomes impossible to resist.
  • Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    You are a bitter fucker, aren't you?
    Surely it is the friends and family of the dead who should be bitter. That you can utterly dismiss their lives and their loss for political point scoring should be an outrage, but little is these days.
    The abhorrent political points scoring is coming from both sides and is frankly unnecessary

    The world is in a pandemic which is far from over and neither sadly is a rising worldwide death toll
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Roger said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Jester has the last laugh.

    We can feel your pain.

    100,000 dead.

    Hilarious.
    Global pandemic.

    Hilarious.
    All that reminds me of Gordon Brown over the Global Economic Crisis.
    Brown's failings were before the financial crisis.

    Johnson wasn't even PM a year before this. Between vaccines and genomic sequencing he's ensured we are well placed to come out of it first though.
    Hmmm, I’m not sure which claim is sillier the idea that he had no influence on policy before he became PM or the idea that he was personally involved in vaccines or genomic sequencing.
    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to set up and pay for COGUK?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with setting up and paying for the vaccine taskforce?

    You think Boris had nothing to do with the decision to reject opposition advice about joining the EU scheme instead?
    The Kumbaya boys are back! ....Felix....Sandpit.....
    Given how many pbers regard the avoidable deaths of tens of thousands as excusable and something to be discreetly forgotten as quickly as possible, to the point of snarling viciously at anyone who has the effrontery to mention it, you’re not likely to find a balanced assessment of the government’s role from the site’s government supporters.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 9,420
    It appears Carrie Symonds is a more accomplished advisor to the Prime Minister, than was Dominic Cummings.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 90,119
    edited February 22
    I'm not sure many other Prime Ministerial spouses have been, inter alia, a press officer for the Tory party, media related SPAD to cabinet ministers, head of communications of the Tory Party.

    I'd be astonished if Boris Johnson and others weren't asking her for advice, she's not just the Prime Minister's inamorata.

    What must worry her and the PM is that she's managed to eventually piss off the two guys who got the PM where he is today, Dominic Cummings and Sir Lynton Crosby.

    That said someone I do like, and has no dog in this particular fight, has started calling her 'Edith', after Edith Wilson.

    Edit - After he first called her Edith I thought he meant Edith from 'Allo 'Allo.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 35,678
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    The government has been more cohesive and much better at its messaging over the last couple of months. I think Cummings is a very able guy, brilliant at identifying wedge issues, coming up with those pithy soundbites and happy to run right over pompous windbags inflated with their own self importance but useful though these skills are in a campaign they do not lead to harmonious government.

    I know as little as the next person on this and certainly less than some on this board but it does seem to me that the appointment of Allegra Stratton in November was the changing point and I would be minded to give her a lot of the credit. If Carrie played a role in getting her appointed and in giving her the political heft to bring others into line she has done Boris a considerable favour.

    Today will be a good test. Pre November Boris would have been bombastic, overly optimistic and too ready to let his natural inclination to let people get on with it be evident. I suspect we will see a more measured, Prime Ministerial performance today with caution and more consistent messaging with just the odd Borisism to remind us who he is.

    Let's hope so. Some around him are suggesting that, having been too relaxed and cavalier at the outset he is so stung by his initial failures that we now risk excessive caution.

    I can envisage a scenario where he maps out a slow pained emergence from our current restrictions, which will have to be torn up (again!) when the combination of vaccination and summer weather ends the wave of new cases and so the pressure to open up quickly becomes impossible to resist.
    But that's fine and a lot easier to manage. You simply say that you are indeed being driven by data not dates and the data is better than expected. No one is going to complain if the pubs and restaurants open a little earlier than planned. Well, almost no one. No doubt there will be those who moan about stocking etc. but that will do the government and the economy little harm.

    The priority now is the economy. We will see that today and in the budget. We need to recover lost GDP and tax revenues as fast as we safely can. We face an immense challenge, this is 2010 all over again so far as the deficit is concerned with more steroids than those Olympic potentials are currently gulping given that out of season testing is now almost non existent.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,769
    IanB2 said:



    Nevertheless the fact that this is Tory-on-Tory makes it more relevant than if it were simply the opposition trying to stir things up.

    In the absence of any effective Opposition, the Tories have to supply their own.

    It's good for democracy.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 32,160
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    The government has been more cohesive and much better at its messaging over the last couple of months. I think Cummings is a very able guy, brilliant at identifying wedge issues, coming up with those pithy soundbites and happy to run right over pompous windbags inflated with their own self importance but useful though these skills are in a campaign they do not lead to harmonious government.

    I know as little as the next person on this and certainly less than some on this board but it does seem to me that the appointment of Allegra Stratton in November was the changing point and I would be minded to give her a lot of the credit. If Carrie played a role in getting her appointed and in giving her the political heft to bring others into line she has done Boris a considerable favour.

    Today will be a good test. Pre November Boris would have been bombastic, overly optimistic and too ready to let his natural inclination to let people get on with it be evident. I suspect we will see a more measured, Prime Ministerial performance today with caution and more consistent messaging with just the odd Borisism to remind us who he is.

    Let's hope so. Some around him are suggesting that, having been too relaxed and cavalier at the outset he is so stung by his initial failures that we now risk excessive caution.

    I can envisage a scenario where he maps out a slow pained emergence from our current restrictions, which will have to be torn up (again!) when the combination of vaccination and summer weather ends the wave of new cases and so the pressure to open up quickly becomes impossible to resist.
    But that's fine and a lot easier to manage. You simply say that you are indeed being driven by data not dates and the data is better than expected. No one is going to complain if the pubs and restaurants open a little earlier than planned. Well, almost no one. No doubt there will be those who moan about stocking etc. but that will do the government and the economy little harm.

    The priority now is the economy. We will see that today and in the budget. We need to recover lost GDP and tax revenues as fast as we safely can. We face an immense challenge, this is 2010 all over again so far as the deficit is concerned with more steroids than those Olympic potentials are currently gulping given that out of season testing is now almost non existent.
    It isn't about ease of management. It's about the rapid rollout of the vaccination programme presenting an opportunity that it might require a bit of courage to make the most of.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,769

    I'm not sure many other Prime Ministerial spouses have been, inter alia, a press officer for the Tory party, media related SPAD to cabinet ministers, head of communications of the Tory Party.

    I'd be astonished if Boris Johnson and others weren't asking her for advice, she's not just the Prime Minister's inamorata.

    What must worry her and the PM is that she's managed to eventually piss off the two guys who got the PM where he is today, Dominic Cummings and Sir Lynton Crosby.

    That said someone I do like, and has no dog in this particular fight, has started calling her 'Edith', after Edith Wilson.

    Edit - After he first called her Edith I thought he meant Edith from 'Allo 'Allo.

    Edith married Woodrow during the first of his two terms as President.

    Just sayin'.....
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