On topic, I guess this hinges on what your definition of "lockdown" means? Some seem to think it applies for as long as maskwearing, social distancing and a rule of 6 apply.
My definition is it ends when you're told you no longer must "stay at home", and can travel for social, domestic and leisure purposes as well as business ones.
Looking at the Mail definitions in the thread header that looks like either April or May to me, and not as late as July.
Yep.
The mystery of India is continuing to cause head scratching amongst scientists. One theory is that mask wearing is responsible.
There's obviously by now lots of evidence that a good mask prevents a lot of airborne virus transmission as well as the more obvious droplet one.
I mention this because the Gov't could sell this pretty strongly: put up with mask wearing for a while in indoor public venues as the price we pay for ending of almost all other restrictions.
If that was the offer almost everyone in the country would take it. Except Laurence Fox, obvs.
That is an interesting thought. I would love to know what people who have to wear masks nearly all the time think. Did they just get used to them? I do not like wearing them, but it doesn't cause me any issues because I appreciate the benefits of doing so and I am fortunate that I don't have to do it very much. Bars and restaurants are obviously impossible and a packed bar must be a top spreading environment. I can't see it working at a pop concert either.
"Asia" wore them for years for no good reason. Now there is a reason. Was their years and years of wearing masks justified because eventually along came a global pandemic?
Have you ever tasted the smog in Beijing. Or Bangkok on a bad day?
I've been suffering from a mild depression for the first time in my life in recent weeks.
How do I know it's a depression?
Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert. But my symptoms match what I understand are common ones online.
I'm tired in the morning. I'm tired during the day. I'm tired in the evening. I don't sleep well at night.
I am listless during the day. I stare and drift. I can't focus. I struggle to read books or even newspaper articles - they are too big and long and take too much effort - I go off Netflix and Amazon series almost immediately. I don't want to leave the house. I feel better when I leave the house. I don't want to talk to people outside the house. I feel better if I do see a smile outside the house.
I'm aggressive and frustrated. I want to start fights. On social media and even with my wife. I immediately regret it when I do and feel victimised when they strike back, as they do. A lingering comment can stay with me for weeks. Which puts me off talking to people at all.
The only way I get work done is through immense self-discipline and short bursts of productivity at times when I have no choice, and I absolutely must. I just about do it. I put on a "game face" on for meetings - but I've even dodged a few of those. My tolerance for work colleagues I don't quite click with or who annoy me is virtually zero. And I don't care.
So this lockdown is really really shit. Everyone I've spoken to feels the same. I don't know how many feel how I feel, but I suspect it's undercounted.
It would make all the difference to see close friends and family, and go into work once a week in London (couldn't give tuppence for all the rest really) and get away on holiday with my family, where we can play and eat and have fun. Because that's living. And this is no life.
I'm pushing the boundaries of these rules as far as I can (and some) and feel I have no alternative if I am to maintain some basic level of sanity. Sorry.
Stay with it. And PB is a great outlet for some of those feelings. We all get it on here. You fucker.
Also, very sadly no one can wave a magic wand and make it "ok" but, and it's just my experience, exercise can be such a solver of so many problems. There is the chemical/endorphin element, and there is also the getting active one, plus exercise is "good for you" so you finish and you feel some kind of sense of achievement.
Of course it's circular - feel down, can't be bothered to do anything including exercise. Hence my view (in good times and bad) that for it to be viable, exercise has to be part of your daily routine, not "an event". So schedule it in, enlist your wife so that at XX o'clock it's your exercise time.
Start off with some reps - push-ups, sit-ups, plank, have you any free weights - nothing too dramatic 15-20 mins is fine. Then see how that goes.
No idea on the finances or availability but an exercise bike or running machine while the weather's shit. Or as I said yesterday, a VR headset. Can have plenty of fun and exercise with that.
But routine is the key.
Good luck and best wishes.
I agree exercise is important, retain self-esteem best you can. I really need the gym to open though. Gyms opened slowly after the first lockdown but immediately after the second so who knows this time? If we go back to Tier system then immediately, I assume?
Apparently lot of the power infrastructure in Texas hasn't got cold weather protection.
I saw a claim that a company, when installing wind turbines, had offered the heating kit to protect against freezing ($5K per turbine), but it hadn't been taken up.
It’s the same everywhere, there’s never investment for the once in a decade weather. It was only a few years ago that Heathrow finally bought enough snowploughs to not have to close for the day after a couple of inches of the stuff, and in my part of the world the first rains of the year will bring the realisation that the drains are all full of sand.
Thankfully, the offshore oil industry built to cater for the hundred-year wave.....
Even designed against a Soviet Type 65 torpedo, in some cases.
On topic, I guess this hinges on what your definition of "lockdown" means? Some seem to think it applies for as long as maskwearing, social distancing and a rule of 6 apply.
My definition is it ends when you're told you no longer must "stay at home", and can travel for social, domestic and leisure purposes as well as business ones.
Looking at the Mail definitions in the thread header that looks like either April or May to me, and not as late as July.
Yep.
The mystery of India is continuing to cause head scratching amongst scientists. One theory is that mask wearing is responsible.
There's obviously by now lots of evidence that a good mask prevents a lot of airborne virus transmission as well as the more obvious droplet one.
I mention this because the Gov't could sell this pretty strongly: put up with mask wearing for a while in indoor public venues as the price we pay for ending of almost all other restrictions.
If that was the offer almost everyone in the country would take it. Except Laurence Fox, obvs.
That is an interesting thought. I would love to know what people who have to wear masks nearly all the time think. Did they just get used to them? I do not like wearing them, but it doesn't cause me any issues because I appreciate the benefits of doing so and I am fortunate that I don't have to do it very much. Bars and restaurants are obviously impossible and a packed bar must be a top spreading environment. I can't see it working at a pop concert either.
"Asia" wore them for years for no good reason. Now there is a reason. Was their years and years of wearing masks justified because eventually along came a global pandemic?
Not sure of your point Topping. I assumed they wore them because of pollution. I am also open minded on the point being suggested, hence my question. I thought it sounded like an interesting suggestion, but I hadn't a clue if the assumption being made was correct.
Mr. Royale, if you can, try and exercise regularly. It can help with mild depression.
I second this. I have a number of significant mental health issues (so I should be jabbed soon) and physical exercise is a wonderful form of recalibration. At the height of my depression, complex PTSD and suicidal tendencies, when I'd often by waking up in the early hours in flat spin panic, I would take myself out for nighttime walks. Nothing crazy but just enough to make a difference. Nowadays I get out for a walk everyday I can unless the Atlantic is throwing its worst at my cottage (remember that by the way all you devotees of south-west hols).
On topic, I guess this hinges on what your definition of "lockdown" means? Some seem to think it applies for as long as maskwearing, social distancing and a rule of 6 apply.
My definition is it ends when you're told you no longer must "stay at home", and can travel for social, domestic and leisure purposes as well as business ones.
Looking at the Mail definitions in the thread header that looks like either April or May to me, and not as late as July.
Yep.
The mystery of India is continuing to cause head scratching amongst scientists. One theory is that mask wearing is responsible.
There's obviously by now lots of evidence that a good mask prevents a lot of airborne virus transmission as well as the more obvious droplet one.
I mention this because the Gov't could sell this pretty strongly: put up with mask wearing for a while in indoor public venues as the price we pay for ending of almost all other restrictions.
If that was the offer almost everyone in the country would take it. Except Laurence Fox, obvs.
That is an interesting thought. I would love to know what people who have to wear masks nearly all the time think. Did they just get used to them? I do not like wearing them, but it doesn't cause me any issues because I appreciate the benefits of doing so and I am fortunate that I don't have to do it very much. Bars and restaurants are obviously impossible and a packed bar must be a top spreading environment. I can't see it working at a pop concert either.
I've lived in Asia and used to wear one out there. I honestly barely notice I'm wearing it now. It's just like putting on knickers, a blouse or a dress. Well, okay, that's a slight exaggeration but it's not a particularly big deal for me anymore.
I meant to say 'aerosol' transmission in my earlier post rather than merely airborne.
I think we'll get to the point when they're not really necessary but they should probably be the last thing to be dropped. It's a very small price to pay if all other restrictions are lifted.
In my five years in Asia I never noticed one foreigner wear a mask. Not in Peking, nor Bangkok.
And as for the general point, we are all vaccinated with an approx 90% efficiency. So not zero by any means but pretty ok. And we still have to wear masks? Something's not right.
On topic, I guess this hinges on what your definition of "lockdown" means? Some seem to think it applies for as long as maskwearing, social distancing and a rule of 6 apply.
My definition is it ends when you're told you no longer must "stay at home", and can travel for social, domestic and leisure purposes as well as business ones.
Looking at the Mail definitions in the thread header that looks like either April or May to me, and not as late as July.
Yep.
The mystery of India is continuing to cause head scratching amongst scientists. One theory is that mask wearing is responsible.
There's obviously by now lots of evidence that a good mask prevents a lot of airborne virus transmission as well as the more obvious droplet one.
I mention this because the Gov't could sell this pretty strongly: put up with mask wearing for a while in indoor public venues as the price we pay for ending of almost all other restrictions.
If that was the offer almost everyone in the country would take it. Except Laurence Fox, obvs.
That is an interesting thought. I would love to know what people who have to wear masks nearly all the time think. Did they just get used to them? I do not like wearing them, but it doesn't cause me any issues because I appreciate the benefits of doing so and I am fortunate that I don't have to do it very much. Bars and restaurants are obviously impossible and a packed bar must be a top spreading environment. I can't see it working at a pop concert either.
"Asia" wore them for years for no good reason. Now there is a reason. Was their years and years of wearing masks justified because eventually along came a global pandemic?
Not sure of your point Topping. I assumed they wore them because of pollution. I am also open minded on the point being suggested, hence my question. I thought it sounded like an interesting suggestion, but I hadn't a clue if the assumption being made was correct.
SARS and various related flu like outbreaks and epidemics.
On topic, I guess this hinges on what your definition of "lockdown" means? Some seem to think it applies for as long as maskwearing, social distancing and a rule of 6 apply.
My definition is it ends when you're told you no longer must "stay at home", and can travel for social, domestic and leisure purposes as well as business ones.
Looking at the Mail definitions in the thread header that looks like either April or May to me, and not as late as July.
Yep.
The mystery of India is continuing to cause head scratching amongst scientists. One theory is that mask wearing is responsible.
There's obviously by now lots of evidence that a good mask prevents a lot of airborne virus transmission as well as the more obvious droplet one.
I mention this because the Gov't could sell this pretty strongly: put up with mask wearing for a while in indoor public venues as the price we pay for ending of almost all other restrictions.
If that was the offer almost everyone in the country would take it. Except Laurence Fox, obvs.
That is an interesting thought. I would love to know what people who have to wear masks nearly all the time think. Did they just get used to them? I do not like wearing them, but it doesn't cause me any issues because I appreciate the benefits of doing so and I am fortunate that I don't have to do it very much. Bars and restaurants are obviously impossible and a packed bar must be a top spreading environment. I can't see it working at a pop concert either.
I've lived in Asia and used to wear one out there. I honestly barely notice I'm wearing it now. It's just like putting on knickers, a blouse or a dress. Well, okay, that's a slight exaggeration but it's not a particularly big deal for me anymore.
I meant to say 'aerosol' transmission in my earlier post rather than merely airborne.
I think we'll get to the point when they're not really necessary but they should probably be the last thing to be dropped. It's a very small price to pay if all other restrictions are lifted.
They're a bugger with hearing aids AND spectacles, though. Even the ones with tapes which go right the head get mixed up with one or the other.
On topic, I guess this hinges on what your definition of "lockdown" means? Some seem to think it applies for as long as maskwearing, social distancing and a rule of 6 apply.
My definition is it ends when you're told you no longer must "stay at home", and can travel for social, domestic and leisure purposes as well as business ones.
Looking at the Mail definitions in the thread header that looks like either April or May to me, and not as late as July.
Yep.
The mystery of India is continuing to cause head scratching amongst scientists. One theory is that mask wearing is responsible.
There's obviously by now lots of evidence that a good mask prevents a lot of airborne virus transmission as well as the more obvious droplet one.
I mention this because the Gov't could sell this pretty strongly: put up with mask wearing for a while in indoor public venues as the price we pay for ending of almost all other restrictions.
If that was the offer almost everyone in the country would take it. Except Laurence Fox, obvs.
That is an interesting thought. I would love to know what people who have to wear masks nearly all the time think. Did they just get used to them? I do not like wearing them, but it doesn't cause me any issues because I appreciate the benefits of doing so and I am fortunate that I don't have to do it very much. Bars and restaurants are obviously impossible and a packed bar must be a top spreading environment. I can't see it working at a pop concert either.
"Asia" wore them for years for no good reason. Now there is a reason. Was their years and years of wearing masks justified because eventually along came a global pandemic?
Not sure of your point Topping. I assumed they wore them because of pollution. I am also open minded on the point being suggested, hence my question. I thought it sounded like an interesting suggestion, but I hadn't a clue if the assumption being made was correct.
In Japan, they have vans which warn you of "chemical air pollution" and everyone stays indoors. Which I discovered for the first time when I was out running in Tokyo one time in very deserted streets with all these vans driving around with loudspeakers. Only to be told afterwards what they were saying.
The issue, once more but evidently not for the final time, is hospitalisations.
When the number of Covid hospitalisations decreases then there will be very few reasons to maintain restrictions. As Matt Hancock said, at that point we will live with this like we do the flu.
And again to use the flu analogy (only analogy - Covid is not the flu); we have thousands of people dying each year of it. The government and the hospitals live with that (albeit with complaining as per The Graun every year for the past 20 years) and so must we.
I think the points I would make are that, while the situation is undoubtedly improving, the number of Covid patients in hospital only just went below the wave 1 peak on the 13th.
We still have a long way to go until the NHS has some breathing space, can allow staff to take some leave, and start up normal operations that are currently suspended.
And, even once all the JCVI groups are vaccinated, there are enough people outside of those groups to fill the hospitals back up again.
One of the things this pandemic is doing is shining a light on how much irrationality and anti-science sentiment there still is in a lot of supposedly advanced countries.
For travel there should be a vaccine passport, I was against it at first but with so many new variants I think should be part of the solution. Remember many people have family abroad so simply saying no travel is not an option.
On topic, I guess this hinges on what your definition of "lockdown" means? Some seem to think it applies for as long as maskwearing, social distancing and a rule of 6 apply.
My definition is it ends when you're told you no longer must "stay at home", and can travel for social, domestic and leisure purposes as well as business ones.
Looking at the Mail definitions in the thread header that looks like either April or May to me, and not as late as July.
Yep.
The mystery of India is continuing to cause head scratching amongst scientists. One theory is that mask wearing is responsible.
There's obviously by now lots of evidence that a good mask prevents a lot of airborne virus transmission as well as the more obvious droplet one.
I mention this because the Gov't could sell this pretty strongly: put up with mask wearing for a while in indoor public venues as the price we pay for ending of almost all other restrictions.
If that was the offer almost everyone in the country would take it. Except Laurence Fox, obvs.
That is an interesting thought. I would love to know what people who have to wear masks nearly all the time think. Did they just get used to them? I do not like wearing them, but it doesn't cause me any issues because I appreciate the benefits of doing so and I am fortunate that I don't have to do it very much. Bars and restaurants are obviously impossible and a packed bar must be a top spreading environment. I can't see it working at a pop concert either.
I've lived in Asia and used to wear one out there. I honestly barely notice I'm wearing it now. It's just like putting on knickers, a blouse or a dress. Well, okay, that's a slight exaggeration but it's not a particularly big deal for me anymore.
I meant to say 'aerosol' transmission in my earlier post rather than merely airborne.
I think we'll get to the point when they're not really necessary but they should probably be the last thing to be dropped. It's a very small price to pay if all other restrictions are lifted.
In my five years in Asia I never noticed one foreigner wear a mask. Not in Peking, nor Bangkok.
And as for the general point, we are all vaccinated with an approx 90% efficiency. So not zero by any means but pretty ok. And we still have to wear masks? Something's not right.
You didn't meet me but I'll bet you're referring to a fair time ago. I've lived in Bangkok and other parts and lots of us got used to wearing masks post-SARS. Certainly since 2010 they were becoming much more commonplace.
Anyway, it's moot. I don't think anyone seriously (or anyone serious) now denies that they help prevent transmission. So to answer your question it's clearly a case that we don't lift all restrictions in one nuclear moment. It will be a gradual lifting and masks should probably be the final one, or thereabouts.
And yup I've been described as writing like an American.
The issue, once more but evidently not for the final time, is hospitalisations.
When the number of Covid hospitalisations decreases then there will be very few reasons to maintain restrictions. As Matt Hancock said, at that point we will live with this like we do the flu.
And again to use the flu analogy (only analogy - Covid is not the flu); we have thousands of people dying each year of it. The government and the hospitals live with that (albeit with complaining as per The Graun every year for the past 20 years) and so must we.
I think the points I would make are that, while the situation is undoubtedly improving, the number of Covid patients in hospital only just went below the wave 1 peak on the 13th.
We still have a long way to go until the NHS has some breathing space, can allow staff to take some leave, and start up normal operations that are currently suspended.
And, even once all the JCVI groups are vaccinated, there are enough people outside of those groups to fill the hospitals back up again.
Of course. And equally the bigger picture is what type of investment we are prepared to make to enable us to handle a larger number of hospitalisations.
But the point remains - we (literally) can't live our lives waiting for something to happen in future (new variants, full hospitals, spike in cases, whole new disease, comet approaching the planet).
For travel there should be a vaccine passport, I was against it at first but with so many new variants I think should be part of the solution. Remember many people have family abroad so simply saying no travel is not an option.
I don't think anyone has really argued for no travel. They have merely argued for stringent quarantine and testing requirements.
I think "vaccine passports" for travel only really make sense if we know for sure vaccination hampers transmission. I know there's some evidence for this already but I'm unsure whether it's conclusive.
I've been suffering from a mild depression for the first time in my life in recent weeks.
How do I know it's a depression?
Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert. But my symptoms match what I understand are common ones online.
I'm tired in the morning. I'm tired during the day. I'm tired in the evening. I don't sleep well at night.
I am listless during the day. I stare and drift. I can't focus. I struggle to read books or even newspaper articles - they are too big and long and take too much effort - I go off Netflix and Amazon series almost immediately. I don't want to leave the house. I feel better when I leave the house. I don't want to talk to people outside the house. I feel better if I do see a smile outside the house.
I'm aggressive and frustrated. I want to start fights. On social media and even with my wife. I immediately regret it when I do and feel victimised when they strike back, as they do. A lingering comment can stay with me for weeks. Which puts me off talking to people at all.
The only way I get work done is through immense self-discipline and short bursts of productivity at times when I have no choice, and I absolutely must. I just about do it. I put on a "game face" on for meetings - but I've even dodged a few of those. My tolerance for work colleagues I don't quite click with or who annoy me is virtually zero. And I don't care.
So this lockdown is really really shit. Everyone I've spoken to feels the same. I don't know how many feel how I feel, but I suspect it's undercounted.
It would make all the difference to see close friends and family, and go into work once a week in London (couldn't give tuppence for all the rest really) and get away on holiday with my family, where we can play and eat and have fun. Because that's living. And this is no life.
I'm pushing the boundaries of these rules as far as I can (and some) and feel I have no alternative if I am to maintain some basic level of sanity. Sorry.
Stay with it. And PB is a great outlet for some of those feelings. We all oN GYget it on here. You fucker.
Also, very sadly no one can wave a magic wand and make it "ok" but, and it's just my experience, exercise can be such a solver of so many problems. There is the chemical/endorphin element, and there is also the getting active one, plus exercise is "good for you" so you finish and you feel some kind of sense of achievement.
Of course it's circular - feel down, can't be bothered to do anything including exercise. Hence my view (in good times and bad) that for it to be viable, exercise has to be part of your daily routine, not "an event". So schedule it in, enlist your wife so that at XX o'clock it's your exercise time.
Start off with some reps - push-ups, sit-ups, plank, have you any free weights - nothing too dramatic 15-20 mins is fine. Then see how that goes.
No idea on the finances or availability but an exercise bike or running machine while the weather's shit. Or as I said yesterday, a VR headset. Can have plenty of fun and exercise with that.
But routine is the key.
Good luck and best wishes.
I agree exercise is important, retain self-esteem best you can. I really need the gym to open though. Gyms opened slowly after the first lockdown but immediately after the second so who knows this time? If we go back to Tier system then immediately, I assume?
One would hope.
Data point on gyms. Since Christmas we have finally been suffering some member loss, which was up on last March until Christmas. Fatigue is finally starting to get through.
For travel there should be a vaccine passport, I was against it at first but with so many new variants I think should be part of the solution. Remember many people have family abroad so simply saying no travel is not an option.
Agreed.
I think it's going to be an App. IATA and Governments (incl the UK) are far on in development.
The Times carried a good piece yesterday about the confusion in terminology. The travel passport is distinct from the internal one which some of our ministers seem to oppose.
On topic, I guess this hinges on what your definition of "lockdown" means? Some seem to think it applies for as long as maskwearing, social distancing and a rule of 6 apply.
My definition is it ends when you're told you no longer must "stay at home", and can travel for social, domestic and leisure purposes as well as business ones.
Looking at the Mail definitions in the thread header that looks like either April or May to me, and not as late as July.
Yep.
The mystery of India is continuing to cause head scratching amongst scientists. One theory is that mask wearing is responsible.
There's obviously by now lots of evidence that a good mask prevents a lot of airborne virus transmission as well as the more obvious droplet one.
I mention this because the Gov't could sell this pretty strongly: put up with mask wearing for a while in indoor public venues as the price we pay for ending of almost all other restrictions.
If that was the offer almost everyone in the country would take it. Except Laurence Fox, obvs.
That is an interesting thought. I would love to know what people who have to wear masks nearly all the time think. Did they just get used to them? I do not like wearing them, but it doesn't cause me any issues because I appreciate the benefits of doing so and I am fortunate that I don't have to do it very much. Bars and restaurants are obviously impossible and a packed bar must be a top spreading environment. I can't see it working at a pop concert either.
I've lived in Asia and used to wear one out there. I honestly barely notice I'm wearing it now. It's just like putting on knickers, a blouse or a dress. Well, okay, that's a slight exaggeration but it's not a particularly big deal for me anymore.
I meant to say 'aerosol' transmission in my earlier post rather than merely airborne.
I think we'll get to the point when they're not really necessary but they should probably be the last thing to be dropped. It's a very small price to pay if all other restrictions are lifted.
In my five years in Asia I never noticed one foreigner wear a mask. Not in Peking, nor Bangkok.
And as for the general point, we are all vaccinated with an approx 90% efficiency. So not zero by any means but pretty ok. And we still have to wear masks? Something's not right.
You didn't meet me but I'll bet you're referring to a fair time ago. I've lived in Bangkok and other parts and lots of us got used to wearing masks post-SARS. Certainly since 2010 they were becoming much more commonplace.
Anyway, it's moot. I don't think anyone seriously (or anyone serious) now denies that they help prevent transmission. So to answer your question it's clearly a case that we don't lift all restrictions in one nuclear moment. It will be a gradual lifting and masks should probably be the final one, or thereabouts.
And yup I've been described as writing like an American.
Yes you are right - a fair time ago. And used properly masks certainly do prevent transmission. But I believe the Asian people (especially those abroad) wearing them were more concerned about protecting themselves. But of course have no idea.
Not in the least surprised by this. The idea it would work with millions of people was hubristic. It might work when you get the numbers with the virus down to very small levels. For instance the concept was probably dreamed up by people who move in circles where smartphone ownership is 100%, whereas the average is 75% and for people over 70 probably much lower. Tunnel vision.
Adding my two penneth, my understanding is more in line with @Fishing than @MarqueeMark - a significant proportion of the Tory parliamentary party is very frustrated by the slowness of the reopening proposals. The support I see for the Govt. line is from careerists and allies/friends of Boris.
The tearooms, meanwhile, are apparently incensed. Things are going to get very tricky for the government if there isn't better news on reopening soon.
The notion that we can't reopen on 2020 timescales when the lockdown started in January is absolute nonsense.
And I agree with OGH. Any political benefit the vaccine brings will be squandered if the reopening is too cautious.
I've been suffering from a mild depression for the first time in my life in recent weeks.
How do I know it's a depression?
Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert. But my symptoms match what I understand are common ones online.
I'm tired in the morning. I'm tired during the day. I'm tired in the evening. I don't sleep well at night.
I am listless during the day. I stare and drift. I can't focus. I struggle to read books or even newspaper articles - they are too big and long and take too much effort - I go off Netflix and Amazon series almost immediately. I don't want to leave the house. I feel better when I leave the house. I don't want to talk to people outside the house. I feel better if I do see a smile outside the house.
I'm aggressive and frustrated. I want to start fights. On social media and even with my wife. I immediately regret it when I do and feel victimised when they strike back, as they do. A lingering comment can stay with me for weeks. Which puts me off talking to people at all.
The only way I get work done is through immense self-discipline and short bursts of productivity at times when I have no choice, and I absolutely must. I just about do it. I put on a "game face" on for meetings - but I've even dodged a few of those. My tolerance for work colleagues I don't quite click with or who annoy me is virtually zero. And I don't care.
So this lockdown is really really shit. Everyone I've spoken to feels the same. I don't know how many feel how I feel, but I suspect it's undercounted.
It would make all the difference to see close friends and family, and go into work once a week in London (couldn't give tuppence for all the rest really) and get away on holiday with my family, where we can play and eat and have fun. Because that's living. And this is no life.
I'm pushing the boundaries of these rules as far as I can (and some) and feel I have no alternative if I am to maintain some basic level of sanity. Sorry.
Stay with it. And PB is a great outlet for some of those feelings. We all oN GYget it on here. You fucker.
Also, very sadly no one can wave a magic wand and make it "ok" but, and it's just my experience, exercise can be such a solver of so many problems. There is the chemical/endorphin element, and there is also the getting active one, plus exercise is "good for you" so you finish and you feel some kind of sense of achievement.
Of course it's circular - feel down, can't be bothered to do anything including exercise. Hence my view (in good times and bad) that for it to be viable, exercise has to be part of your daily routine, not "an event". So schedule it in, enlist your wife so that at XX o'clock it's your exercise time.
Start off with some reps - push-ups, sit-ups, plank, have you any free weights - nothing too dramatic 15-20 mins is fine. Then see how that goes.
No idea on the finances or availability but an exercise bike or running machine while the weather's shit. Or as I said yesterday, a VR headset. Can have plenty of fun and exercise with that.
But routine is the key.
Good luck and best wishes.
I agree exercise is important, retain self-esteem best you can. I really need the gym to open though. Gyms opened slowly after the first lockdown but immediately after the second so who knows this time? If we go back to Tier system then immediately, I assume?
One would hope.
Data point on gyms. Since Christmas we have finally been suffering some member loss, which was up on last March until Christmas. Fatigue is finally starting to get through.
Well, like an idiot, I paid my membership fee a year in advance. Last February! So no, I haven't renewed it. I imagine it would be a similar story elsewhere.
On balance, I think I've enjoyed the various lockdowns. I've certainly never got so much DIY done; I've repainted the entire house and put a new roof on the barn.
The only thing I've really missed are track days. Still booked for Spa for September which could be optimistic.
On balance, I think I've enjoyed the various lockdowns. I've certainly never got so much DIY done; I've repainted the entire house and put a new roof on the barn.
The only thing I've really missed are track days. Still booked for Spa for September which could be optimistic.
Haven't you been using the entire national motorway network as your track?
For travel there should be a vaccine passport, I was against it at first but with so many new variants I think should be part of the solution. Remember many people have family abroad so simply saying no travel is not an option.
I don't think anyone has really argued for no travel. They have merely argued for stringent quarantine and testing requirements.
I think "vaccine passports" for travel only really make sense if we know for sure vaccination hampers transmission. I know there's some evidence for this already but I'm unsure whether it's conclusive.
If you force people to pay upwards £1,000 per peeson to quatantine you are in effect banning travel for moddle class and working class families, so rich can travel but the not rich cant. That is a very unfair system.
I've been suffering from a mild depression for the first time in my life in recent weeks.
How do I know it's a depression?
Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert. But my symptoms match what I understand are common ones online.
I'm tired in the morning. I'm tired during the day. I'm tired in the evening. I don't sleep well at night.
I am listless during the day. I stare and drift. I can't focus. I struggle to read books or even newspaper articles - they are too big and long and take too much effort - I go off Netflix and Amazon series almost immediately. I don't want to leave the house. I feel better when I leave the house. I don't want to talk to people outside the house. I feel better if I do see a smile outside the house.
I'm aggressive and frustrated. I want to start fights. On social media and even with my wife. I immediately regret it when I do and feel victimised when they strike back, as they do. A lingering comment can stay with me for weeks. Which puts me off talking to people at all.
The only way I get work done is through immense self-discipline and short bursts of productivity at times when I have no choice, and I absolutely must. I just about do it. I put on a "game face" on for meetings - but I've even dodged a few of those. My tolerance for work colleagues I don't quite click with or who annoy me is virtually zero. And I don't care.
So this lockdown is really really shit. Everyone I've spoken to feels the same. I don't know how many feel how I feel, but I suspect it's undercounted.
It would make all the difference to see close friends and family, and go into work once a week in London (couldn't give tuppence for all the rest really) and get away on holiday with my family, where we can play and eat and have fun. Because that's living. And this is no life.
I'm pushing the boundaries of these rules as far as I can (and some) and feel I have no alternative if I am to maintain some basic level of sanity. Sorry.
I think what has begun to frustrate me is that (in my own personal opinion) the government (both UK and Scottish in my case, but in particular perhaps Scottish on this point) have started to get a bit blasé about lockdown.
There is not quite the same sense there was earlier in all this that they appreciated quite what it meant for the country to be bottled up like this. There is not quite the same sense of "I don't want these restrictions in place one second longer than necessary". I do very much get the sense that having ground people into the relentless routine of lockdown and having not seen any major societal pushback on that, that this is more or less carte blanche for them to not feel any real pressure to change that with much speed.
I'm not arguing that lockdown isn't necessary or that it doesn't need to be a bit longer, but I think I'd like them to look as if they were agonising about extending it a bit more as opposed to sort of almost casually stating that it'll be at least another month, maybe longer, whatever. Are the politicians even still voting these extensions through every 3 weeks or whatever the regs say they should be?
Adding my two penneth, my understanding is more in line with @Fishing than @MarqueeMark - a significant proportion of the Tory parliamentary party is very frustrated by the slowness of the reopening proposals. The support I see for the Govt. line is from careerists and allies/friends of Boris.
The tearooms, meanwhile, are apparently incensed. Things are going to get very tricky for the government if there isn't better news on reopening soon.
The notion that we can't reopen on 2020 timescales when the lockdown started in January is absolute nonsense.
And I agree with OGH. Any political benefit the vaccine brings will be squandered if the reopening is too cautious.
“One area the Lib Dems could have made some ground on was lockdowns and the curbing of personal freedoms that have taken place... At the very least, Davey should have made a point that Covid measures represented the biggest curb on personal freedom in recent British history. He could and should have asked the government to validate the decisions that were made more effectively. That was surely the least we could have asked of Britain’s one supposedly liberal party”.
I've been suffering from a mild depression for the first time in my life in recent weeks.
How do I know it's a depression?
Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert. But my symptoms match what I understand are common ones online.
I'm tired in the morning. I'm tired during the day. I'm tired in the evening. I don't sleep well at night.
I am listless during the day. I stare and drift. I can't focus. I struggle to read books or even newspaper articles - they are too big and long and take too much effort - I go off Netflix and Amazon series almost immediately. I don't want to leave the house. I feel better when I leave the house. I don't want to talk to people outside the house. I feel better if I do see a smile outside the house.
I'm aggressive and frustrated. I want to start fights. On social media and even with my wife. I immediately regret it when I do and feel victimised when they strike back, as they do. A lingering comment can stay with me for weeks. Which puts me off talking to people at all.
The only way I get work done is through immense self-discipline and short bursts of productivity at times when I have no choice, and I absolutely must. I just about do it. I put on a "game face" on for meetings - but I've even dodged a few of those. My tolerance for work colleagues I don't quite click with or who annoy me is virtually zero. And I don't care.
So this lockdown is really really shit. Everyone I've spoken to feels the same. I don't know how many feel how I feel, but I suspect it's undercounted.
It would make all the difference to see close friends and family, and go into work once a week in London (couldn't give tuppence for all the rest really) and get away on holiday with my family, where we can play and eat and have fun. Because that's living. And this is no life.
I'm pushing the boundaries of these rules as far as I can (and some) and feel I have no alternative if I am to maintain some basic level of sanity. Sorry.
Stay with it. And PB is a great outlet for some of those feelings. We all oN GYget it on here. You fucker.
Also, very sadly no one can wave a magic wand and make it "ok" but, and it's just my experience, exercise can be such a solver of so many problems. There is the chemical/endorphin element, and there is also the getting active one, plus exercise is "good for you" so you finish and you feel some kind of sense of achievement.
Of course it's circular - feel down, can't be bothered to do anything including exercise. Hence my view (in good times and bad) that for it to be viable, exercise has to be part of your daily routine, not "an event". So schedule it in, enlist your wife so that at XX o'clock it's your exercise time.
Start off with some reps - push-ups, sit-ups, plank, have you any free weights - nothing too dramatic 15-20 mins is fine. Then see how that goes.
No idea on the finances or availability but an exercise bike or running machine while the weather's shit. Or as I said yesterday, a VR headset. Can have plenty of fun and exercise with that.
But routine is the key.
Good luck and best wishes.
I agree exercise is important, retain self-esteem best you can. I really need the gym to open though. Gyms opened slowly after the first lockdown but immediately after the second so who knows this time? If we go back to Tier system then immediately, I assume?
One would hope.
Data point on gyms. Since Christmas we have finally been suffering some member loss, which was up on last March until Christmas. Fatigue is finally starting to get through.
"In the Commons there’s now even a growing group of Tory MPs who are pressing hard for change"
Numbers please? Because that is not what I am hearing.
There is one over-arching aim in Government - never again will there be Covid lockdowns. We will come out of lockdown when it is clear there will never be a need for more. Now, that might be quick, once the confirmation is in that a) the vaccines are as good as is hoped and b) the numbers for deliveries of those vaccines to give the jab to everyone are secured.
But if it needs an extra month to be completely sure, then the Government will take the extra pain to be able to say to the UK "Covid has been banished as an impediment to getting on with your life within this country* ". That is the political win within reach.
*Foreign travel for work or holibobs will be the very last thing to get the green light - and that could be quite some time. The UK has the genome testing capacity to know how safe it really is outside our borders. Again, the way the virus has retreated in just the past five weeks around the globe means the scope for mutations is already reducing markedly. If it continues - wonderful. But the win will not be lightly lost.
The smart money is on booking your holiday in 2021 in Northumberland. Or Scotland. Or Devon. That spend will be a one-off boost to a nation whose residents spent £62.3 billion on visits overseas in 2019, compared to overseas residents spending £28.4 billion on visits to the UK in 2019. Some of that overseas money will still come here, if it is from people with (non-forged) vaccine certificates. We will be opening earlier than most - restaurants, pubs, museums, galleries, the stuff to make a memorable holiday here. An obvious choice to come here (if you can find the accommodation). I have it on very good authority that the Governor of the Bank of England is very chipper about our prospects for coming out of Covid in a most robust fashion. Things are looking up. Prepare for a much, much better year. But only when it is beaten to the point where it isn't wrecking our lives ever again.
Very good post @MarqueeMark but can you clarify a couple of things?
I understood that when we come out it will be back into the tier system - is that how you understand it?
Secondly, you appear to be suggesting that foreign travellers will be permitted to travel into the country but UK citizens will be barred from travelling out.
Yes, tiers when we reopen - but again, only reducing. So unlikely to be many seeing tier 1 or 2 immediately.
On foreign travel, the ban will stay as the last Covid measure to go. Even then, when lifted, the message will continue to be exercise caution: if you lose your money, there'll be no compensation from the Government. If we are first out of lockdowns, that still means you risk spending 14 days in quarantine when you arrive at a place that is still way behind us.
So this year, give Scotland a try instead. You'll love it.
Er...no, we don’t need to give Hyufd ideas about trying Scotland, thanks.
I've been suffering from a mild depression for the first time in my life in recent weeks.
How do I know it's a depression?
Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert. But my symptoms match what I understand are common ones online.
I'm tired in the morning. I'm tired during the day. I'm tired in the evening. I don't sleep well at night.
I am listless during the day. I stare and drift. I can't focus. I struggle to read books or even newspaper articles - they are too big and long and take too much effort - I go off Netflix and Amazon series almost immediately. I don't want to leave the house. I feel better when I leave the house. I don't want to talk to people outside the house. I feel better if I do see a smile outside the house.
I'm aggressive and frustrated. I want to start fights. On social media and even with my wife. I immediately regret it when I do and feel victimised when they strike back, as they do. A lingering comment can stay with me for weeks. Which puts me off talking to people at all.
The only way I get work done is through immense self-discipline and short bursts of productivity at times when I have no choice, and I absolutely must. I just about do it. I put on a "game face" on for meetings - but I've even dodged a few of those. My tolerance for work colleagues I don't quite click with or who annoy me is virtually zero. And I don't care.
So this lockdown is really really shit. Everyone I've spoken to feels the same. I don't know how many feel how I feel, but I suspect it's undercounted.
It would make all the difference to see close friends and family, and go into work once a week in London (couldn't give tuppence for all the rest really) and get away on holiday with my family, where we can play and eat and have fun. Because that's living. And this is no life.
I'm pushing the boundaries of these rules as far as I can (and some) and feel I have no alternative if I am to maintain some basic level of sanity. Sorry.
To add to what others have said (exercise - very important, but hard to motivate when depressed!) it may also be worth looking into CBT (first Google hit is NHS with good info - there is unfortunately also a lot of crap in this area and unvalidated self-help stuff - most self-help books etc are neither validated nor CBT). Like everything in this area, it's no panacea, but has been shown to help in some cases (it probably varies by individual and it's symptom management more than a cure). Learning the techniques certainly helped me - after years of practice (and accepting that I should stop looking for a cure and instead look to just make things better) I'm now pretty good at interrupting the thought processes, questioning myself about whether it's rational to feel this way about this thing/person or whether it's 'just' depression. I say 'just' not to belittle it but because, by recognising it early I can generally stop myself going further down that rabbit hole, stopping me being aggressive and apologising before it becomes a big fight; getting myself out for a run before I can no longer face it. It's a bit weird second guessing yourself, but it really has helped. I probably find myself interrupting a trajectory once or twice per month, but I've not had very few episodes of depression bad enough to have any real effect on my life/productivity in five years or more. The only things that have thrown me in that time have been external events (particularly miscarriages) where it was right to feel down but I missed the point at which being rightly sad turned into depression.
For travel there should be a vaccine passport, I was against it at first but with so many new variants I think should be part of the solution. Remember many people have family abroad so simply saying no travel is not an option.
I don't think anyone has really argued for no travel. They have merely argued for stringent quarantine and testing requirements.
I think "vaccine passports" for travel only really make sense if we know for sure vaccination hampers transmission. I know there's some evidence for this already but I'm unsure whether it's conclusive.
If you force people to pay upwards £1,000 per peeson to quatantine you are in effect banning travel for moddle class and working class families, so rich can travel but the not rich cant. That is a very unfair system.
Well it might be unfair but what other choice is there? This is a worldwide emergency after all. Perhaps the answer is subsidy.
Obviously the ideal scenario is that come Winter 2021 most of the world is vaccinated (this may be optimistic), no mutant strains evade the vaccine, and we can simply get back to normal.
"In the Commons there’s now even a growing group of Tory MPs who are pressing hard for change"
Numbers please? Because that is not what I am hearing.
There is one over-arching aim in Government - never again will there be Covid lockdowns. We will come out of lockdown when it is clear there will never be a need for more. Now, that might be quick, once the confirmation is in that a) the vaccines are as good as is hoped and b) the numbers for deliveries of those vaccines to give the jab to everyone are secured.
But if it needs an extra month to be completely sure, then the Government will take the extra pain to be able to say to the UK "Covid has been banished as an impediment to getting on with your life within this country* ". That is the political win within reach.
*Foreign travel for work or holibobs will be the very last thing to get the green light - and that could be quite some time. The UK has the genome testing capacity to know how safe it really is outside our borders. Again, the way the virus has retreated in just the past five weeks around the globe means the scope for mutations is already reducing markedly. If it continues - wonderful. But the win will not be lightly lost.
The smart money is on booking your holiday in 2021 in Northumberland. Or Scotland. Or Devon. That spend will be a one-off boost to a nation whose residents spent £62.3 billion on visits overseas in 2019, compared to overseas residents spending £28.4 billion on visits to the UK in 2019. Some of that overseas money will still come here, if it is from people with (non-forged) vaccine certificates. We will be opening earlier than most - restaurants, pubs, museums, galleries, the stuff to make a memorable holiday here. An obvious choice to come here (if you can find the accommodation). I have it on very good authority that the Governor of the Bank of England is very chipper about our prospects for coming out of Covid in a most robust fashion. Things are looking up. Prepare for a much, much better year. But only when it is beaten to the point where it isn't wrecking our lives ever again.
Very good post @MarqueeMark but can you clarify a couple of things?
I understood that when we come out it will be back into the tier system - is that how you understand it?
Secondly, you appear to be suggesting that foreign travellers will be permitted to travel into the country but UK citizens will be barred from travelling out.
Yes, tiers when we reopen - but again, only reducing. So unlikely to be many seeing tier 1 or 2 immediately.
On foreign travel, the ban will stay as the last Covid measure to go. Even then, when lifted, the message will continue to be exercise caution: if you lose your money, there'll be no compensation from the Government. If we are first out of lockdowns, that still means you risk spending 14 days in quarantine when you arrive at a place that is still way behind us.
So this year, give Scotland a try instead. You'll love it.
Er...no, we don’t need to give Hyufd ideas about trying Scotland, thanks.
Are saying he won't tank me?
How does one get to Scotland anyway? I`m fucked if I`m driving ten hours there and ten hours back. Train and then car hire I guess?
The devastating consequences of lockdown are starting to become manifest even on a site that has steadfastly and implacably backed them through thick and thin.
I am genuinely very sorry for those who are suffering on here because of the brutal and vicious restrictions imposed upon us by the Johnson regime and those that prop it up.
One way I have found helps is to fund those who are at least trying to fight back. I have donated small amounts to figures who question lockdown and those who promise to ensure these measures imposed on the people of Britain will never be perpetrated again.
The devastating consequences of lockdown are starting to become manifest even on a site that has steadfastly and implacably backed them through thick and thin.
I am genuinely very sorry for those who are suffering on here because of the brutal and vicious restrictions imposed upon us by the Johnson regime and those that prop it up.
One way I have found helps is to fund those who are at least trying to fight back. I have donated small amounts to figures who question lockdown and those who promise to ensure these measures imposed on the people of Britain will never be perpetrated again.
Also the Obscene Publications Act was replaced in 1959 and was only actually abandoned in 1960.
The Obscene Publications Act, as amended, is still in force. There were regular obscenity trials into the 1970s. What has changed is a jury's attitude to what constitutes obscenity - with 1960 a bit of a landmark - which means that never/virtually never is the situation today.
As to freedom now and freedom then, we mostly are comparing different sorts of freedom, and Hitchens, like most of us, enjoyed best the time when he had the freedom to be young and have all his future in front of him. Grumpy Old Men confuse the two. There were legal and socially enforced bans on things then, as there are now and always will be.
Covid can still be very nasty for younger people, I expect people are going to continue with a personal semi lockdown till jabbed up.
+21 days. It has been the same throughout this crisis. The government has had limitations and regulations but anyone sane has also taken reasonable steps to protect themselves from a pernicious illness that can occasionally be fatal but more often is life changingly unpleasant.
It will take time for people to get their confidence back and that time will have an economic cost.
Yes, that's right, and not a political point. That's also why public opinion is overwhelmingly in favour of erring on the side of caution. Sure, we'd all like to see relatives and move around more easily, but most people will put that off till, say, July, if they feel it will make a real difference in pandemic control.
What I'm curious about is how far behaviour will change permanently. Most people seem to expect office workers to operate at least 50% from whom, forever. On the last thread someone said that he hated masks and so did most people, and I said I thought most just saw them as a mild nuisance. Might they become commonplace in public interaction, as in urban Japan? Will events where half the point is the crowd (football matches, dance clubs) change in future? Regardless of what we'd like individually, whyat do we actually expect?
I think that it is inevitable that there will be deep psychological scars from this pandemic. I agree that face masks in high risk situations such as the tube, public buses or airports are likely to be far more common (with a very significant upside in respect of flu infections).
I can't imagine being particularly comfortable in a large press of people at sporting events such as football or cricket for some time yet. The young at nightclubs etc will get over it fastest I suspect.
Work is a tricky one. I didn't come to Edinburgh at all in January but found (a) my productivity was very poor and deteriorating and (b) I was becoming depressed (the two being linked of course). In the last couple of weeks I have had several court hearings by webex and have used this as an excuse to come through again for a better connection and quieter facilities than I have at home. In theory I could work at home completely. In reality I just couldn't. We are social animals and screens don't cut it (I of course recognise the irony of making this point on a blogging site).
I can easily imagine being able to do the work I did most of the time n a mask, but there were times when I'm sure I would have found considerable problems; face to face discussions with patients for example. We had a similar discussion here some years ago over Moslem woman who wore the full kit in patient-facing situations. Similarly I can't imagine a teacher being able to manage a f-t-f in a mask, or similar. As an active u3a member, who belongs to several interest groups, I think I'd find masks difficult; I've got a couple of Groups meeting remotely on Friday; I'll ask for opinions. Finally, while I can imagine wearing a mask while watching sport, the big risk areas would be buying a drink, whether before at half-time at football or during a quiet passage of play at cricket. The bars can be absolutely rammed.
Plus people will game the system. No need for a mask while drinking? Have a permanent glass of something in your hand the whole time. Plenty of people will want to get used to holding a glass for the whole match more than they want to wear a mask for the whole match.
I know people who do that now.
Same on the trains but I don't think it's, or isn't definitely gaming as such. You have a drink/sandwich - are you really going to lift your mask up and down every time you take a sip?
I do. It's not a big deal. Pop it down, pop it up.
There was all of this when seatbelts were made compulsory but I bet you that 99 times out of 100 you don't even think about it now.
At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious, there is no need to take your seatbelt off and on during the course of a car journey.
At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious that's untrue. Pop out to the shops and you're frequently taking it on and off.
Just belt up.
A little mask wearing for the ending of genuine restrictions is a very, very, small price to pay. Asia gets it. Only blockheaded Brits, of whom there are still some, don't.
I'm not blockheaded.
I have ASD and a history of anxiety and depression. The physical sensation of wearing a mask triggers all my worst sensory issues of feeling trapped.
Added to that I can't get past the logical idea that, if it's not safe to be somewhere without a mask then it's not safe to be there at all. Particularly given the standards of mask-wearing from other people (and my wearing a mask principally protects others from me, rather than vice versa).
If they keep requirements to wear a mask in places after widespread vaccination then I won't go to places.
"In the Commons there’s now even a growing group of Tory MPs who are pressing hard for change"
Numbers please? Because that is not what I am hearing.
There is one over-arching aim in Government - never again will there be Covid lockdowns. We will come out of lockdown when it is clear there will never be a need for more. Now, that might be quick, once the confirmation is in that a) the vaccines are as good as is hoped and b) the numbers for deliveries of those vaccines to give the jab to everyone are secured.
But if it needs an extra month to be completely sure, then the Government will take the extra pain to be able to say to the UK "Covid has been banished as an impediment to getting on with your life within this country* ". That is the political win within reach.
*Foreign travel for work or holibobs will be the very last thing to get the green light - and that could be quite some time. The UK has the genome testing capacity to know how safe it really is outside our borders. Again, the way the virus has retreated in just the past five weeks around the globe means the scope for mutations is already reducing markedly. If it continues - wonderful. But the win will not be lightly lost.
The smart money is on booking your holiday in 2021 in Northumberland. Or Scotland. Or Devon. That spend will be a one-off boost to a nation whose residents spent £62.3 billion on visits overseas in 2019, compared to overseas residents spending £28.4 billion on visits to the UK in 2019. Some of that overseas money will still come here, if it is from people with (non-forged) vaccine certificates. We will be opening earlier than most - restaurants, pubs, museums, galleries, the stuff to make a memorable holiday here. An obvious choice to come here (if you can find the accommodation). I have it on very good authority that the Governor of the Bank of England is very chipper about our prospects for coming out of Covid in a most robust fashion. Things are looking up. Prepare for a much, much better year. But only when it is beaten to the point where it isn't wrecking our lives ever again.
Very good post @MarqueeMark but can you clarify a couple of things?
I understood that when we come out it will be back into the tier system - is that how you understand it?
Secondly, you appear to be suggesting that foreign travellers will be permitted to travel into the country but UK citizens will be barred from travelling out.
Yes, tiers when we reopen - but again, only reducing. So unlikely to be many seeing tier 1 or 2 immediately.
On foreign travel, the ban will stay as the last Covid measure to go. Even then, when lifted, the message will continue to be exercise caution: if you lose your money, there'll be no compensation from the Government. If we are first out of lockdowns, that still means you risk spending 14 days in quarantine when you arrive at a place that is still way behind us.
So this year, give Scotland a try instead. You'll love it.
Er...no, we don’t need to give Hyufd ideas about trying Scotland, thanks.
Are saying he won't tank me?
How does one get to Scotland anyway? I`m fucked if I`m driving ten hours there and ten hours back. Train and then car hire I guess?
Nine hours to Oban from Central London is/was a general rule of thumb. Otherwise take one of the most beautiful train journeys (certainly when you get north of Leeds) on the ECML KingsX to Edinburgh.
Edit: and sit on the right of the train as it goes through Berwick.
The first lockdown was during a beautiful spring. November’s was so short I barely remember it. But this one...Kent has effectively been locked down for two months now. In that time we have had the drama and stress of the Transition period ending, my Yank wife in bits over the Capitol Insurrection, dark dark nights and most recently snow. People I know generally are generally suffering clear signs of clinical depression and burnout. I had to take a parcel to the Post Office and went to the one at WH Smith’s in Ashford so I could browse the books and be around people. I am also pulling together pics of the wife and me over the years on holiday for the US Immigration attorney which wraps me in almost unbearable nostalgia. I suffered badly first time around and have found coping mechanisms but I note that others are suffering far worse.
Yet whenever I am asked I will say I support the lockdown. It makes sense. I don’t want to kill other people or myself. But if someone said to me in the village “come over for a cup of tea” I would be tempted. I smoked quite regularly at Uni but would always describe myself as a non-smoker. Compliance and stated support are different things. I strongly suspect that this one is going to fray at the edges sooner rather than later.
Adding my two penneth, my understanding is more in line with @Fishing than @MarqueeMark - a significant proportion of the Tory parliamentary party is very frustrated by the slowness of the reopening proposals. The support I see for the Govt. line is from careerists and allies/friends of Boris.
The tearooms, meanwhile, are apparently incensed. Things are going to get very tricky for the government if there isn't better news on reopening soon.
The notion that we can't reopen on 2020 timescales when the lockdown started in January is absolute nonsense.
And I agree with OGH. Any political benefit the vaccine brings will be squandered if the reopening is too cautious.
“One area the Lib Dems could have made some ground on was lockdowns and the curbing of personal freedoms that have taken place... At the very least, Davey should have made a point that Covid measures represented the biggest curb on personal freedom in recent British history. He could and should have asked the government to validate the decisions that were made more effectively. That was surely the least we could have asked of Britain’s one supposedly liberal party”.
This. 100x this.
I asked on here where were the LibDems and the idea of liberty and an overbearing state months ago.
"In the Commons there’s now even a growing group of Tory MPs who are pressing hard for change"
Numbers please? Because that is not what I am hearing.
There is one over-arching aim in Government - never again will there be Covid lockdowns. We will come out of lockdown when it is clear there will never be a need for more. Now, that might be quick, once the confirmation is in that a) the vaccines are as good as is hoped and b) the numbers for deliveries of those vaccines to give the jab to everyone are secured.
But if it needs an extra month to be completely sure, then the Government will take the extra pain to be able to say to the UK "Covid has been banished as an impediment to getting on with your life within this country* ". That is the political win within reach.
*Foreign travel for work or holibobs will be the very last thing to get the green light - and that could be quite some time. The UK has the genome testing capacity to know how safe it really is outside our borders. Again, the way the virus has retreated in just the past five weeks around the globe means the scope for mutations is already reducing markedly. If it continues - wonderful. But the win will not be lightly lost.
The smart money is on booking your holiday in 2021 in Northumberland. Or Scotland. Or Devon. That spend will be a one-off boost to a nation whose residents spent £62.3 billion on visits overseas in 2019, compared to overseas residents spending £28.4 billion on visits to the UK in 2019. Some of that overseas money will still come here, if it is from people with (non-forged) vaccine certificates. We will be opening earlier than most - restaurants, pubs, museums, galleries, the stuff to make a memorable holiday here. An obvious choice to come here (if you can find the accommodation). I have it on very good authority that the Governor of the Bank of England is very chipper about our prospects for coming out of Covid in a most robust fashion. Things are looking up. Prepare for a much, much better year. But only when it is beaten to the point where it isn't wrecking our lives ever again.
Very good post @MarqueeMark but can you clarify a couple of things?
I understood that when we come out it will be back into the tier system - is that how you understand it?
Secondly, you appear to be suggesting that foreign travellers will be permitted to travel into the country but UK citizens will be barred from travelling out.
Yes, tiers when we reopen - but again, only reducing. So unlikely to be many seeing tier 1 or 2 immediately.
On foreign travel, the ban will stay as the last Covid measure to go. Even then, when lifted, the message will continue to be exercise caution: if you lose your money, there'll be no compensation from the Government. If we are first out of lockdowns, that still means you risk spending 14 days in quarantine when you arrive at a place that is still way behind us.
So this year, give Scotland a try instead. You'll love it.
Er...no, we don’t need to give Hyufd ideas about trying Scotland, thanks.
Are saying he won't tank me?
How does one get to Scotland anyway? I`m fucked if I`m driving ten hours there and ten hours back. Train and then car hire I guess?
Hopefully sufficiently specialised to restrict themselves to one or two species. Hopefully.
But nature tends to show how opportunist it is when the primary food source has been used up. And there are 58 species of Tineidae besides the ones they are targeting.
Adding my two penneth, my understanding is more in line with @Fishing than @MarqueeMark - a significant proportion of the Tory parliamentary party is very frustrated by the slowness of the reopening proposals. The support I see for the Govt. line is from careerists and allies/friends of Boris.
The tearooms, meanwhile, are apparently incensed. Things are going to get very tricky for the government if there isn't better news on reopening soon.
The notion that we can't reopen on 2020 timescales when the lockdown started in January is absolute nonsense.
And I agree with OGH. Any political benefit the vaccine brings will be squandered if the reopening is too cautious.
We can also see today that there are plenty of people who, whatever the evidence, want to impose lcokdown on the people of Britain for ever. Another argument rejected wholesale on here and another that is being destroyed daily.
1,000 cases a day is apparently the benchmark for any serious restrictions to be lifted. 1,000 cases. That is at the extreme end of the extremists view and is quite clearly set by people who never want to release their grip on Britain.
The notion that nobody wants lockdown to continue for a minute longer than is necessary is being utterly destroyed. These people exist, there are plenty of them and they are powerful.
For travel there should be a vaccine passport, I was against it at first but with so many new variants I think should be part of the solution. Remember many people have family abroad so simply saying no travel is not an option.
The only alternative to vaccine passports would be a quick, reliable and inexpensive test that would show whether or not someone is immune to the virus, either from having had it or from having had the vaccine. But its very unlikely that such a test could be developed.
On balance, I think I've enjoyed the various lockdowns. I've certainly never got so much DIY done; I've repainted the entire house and put a new roof on the barn.
The only thing I've really missed are track days. Still booked for Spa for September which could be optimistic.
Haven't you been using the entire national motorway network as your track?
The proliferation of average speed cameras has ended Smokey Nagata style antics on M roads. Deserted local A roads now form the local "Durabergring". I've also got some Luxembourgois plates I bought off eBay for stealth mode.
In Brexit related news British track days are getting very expensive due to demand as it's now a colossal pain in the dick to take a non V5 vehicle (ie track day special) to Europe.
The first lockdown was during a beautiful spring. November’s was so short I barely remember it. But this one...Kent has effectively been locked down for two months now. In that time we have had the drama and stress of the Transition period ending, my Yank wife in bits over the Capitol Insurrection, dark dark nights and most recently snow. People I know generally are generally suffering clear signs of clinical depression and burnout. I had to take a parcel to the Post Office and went to the one at WH Smith’s in Ashford so I could browse the books and be around people. I am also pulling together pics of the wife and me over the years on holiday for the US Immigration attorney which wraps me in almost unbearable nostalgia. I suffered badly first time around and have found coping mechanisms but I note that others are suffering far worse.
Yet whenever I am asked I will say I support the lockdown. It makes sense. I don’t want to kill other people or myself. But if someone said to me in the village “come over for a cup of tea” I would be tempted. I smoked quite regularly at Uni but would always describe myself as a non-smoker. Compliance and stated support are different things. I strongly suspect that this one is going to fray at the edges sooner rather than later.
And sorry to say but for all those "it's only until July" folk - that's another SIX months, give or take.
Far better to see a gradual rollout and reduce the risk of the spread of mutations of the virus, than to see a rapid rise in mutations which requires another lockdown again without any reopening until another booster virus for the mutant is produced
Hopefully sufficiently specialised to restrict themselves to one or two species. Hopefully.
But nature tends to show how opportunist it is when the primary food source has been used up. And there are 58 species of Tineidae besides the ones they are targeting.
Covid can still be very nasty for younger people, I expect people are going to continue with a personal semi lockdown till jabbed up.
+21 days. It has been the same throughout this crisis. The government has had limitations and regulations but anyone sane has also taken reasonable steps to protect themselves from a pernicious illness that can occasionally be fatal but more often is life changingly unpleasant.
It will take time for people to get their confidence back and that time will have an economic cost.
Yes, that's right, and not a political point. That's also why public opinion is overwhelmingly in favour of erring on the side of caution. Sure, we'd all like to see relatives and move around more easily, but most people will put that off till, say, July, if they feel it will make a real difference in pandemic control.
What I'm curious about is how far behaviour will change permanently. Most people seem to expect office workers to operate at least 50% from whom, forever. On the last thread someone said that he hated masks and so did most people, and I said I thought most just saw them as a mild nuisance. Might they become commonplace in public interaction, as in urban Japan? Will events where half the point is the crowd (football matches, dance clubs) change in future? Regardless of what we'd like individually, whyat do we actually expect?
I think that it is inevitable that there will be deep psychological scars from this pandemic. I agree that face masks in high risk situations such as the tube, public buses or airports are likely to be far more common (with a very significant upside in respect of flu infections).
I can't imagine being particularly comfortable in a large press of people at sporting events such as football or cricket for some time yet. The young at nightclubs etc will get over it fastest I suspect.
Work is a tricky one. I didn't come to Edinburgh at all in January but found (a) my productivity was very poor and deteriorating and (b) I was becoming depressed (the two being linked of course). In the last couple of weeks I have had several court hearings by webex and have used this as an excuse to come through again for a better connection and quieter facilities than I have at home. In theory I could work at home completely. In reality I just couldn't. We are social animals and screens don't cut it (I of course recognise the irony of making this point on a blogging site).
I can easily imagine being able to do the work I did most of the time n a mask, but there were times when I'm sure I would have found considerable problems; face to face discussions with patients for example. We had a similar discussion here some years ago over Moslem woman who wore the full kit in patient-facing situations. Similarly I can't imagine a teacher being able to manage a f-t-f in a mask, or similar. As an active u3a member, who belongs to several interest groups, I think I'd find masks difficult; I've got a couple of Groups meeting remotely on Friday; I'll ask for opinions. Finally, while I can imagine wearing a mask while watching sport, the big risk areas would be buying a drink, whether before at half-time at football or during a quiet passage of play at cricket. The bars can be absolutely rammed.
Plus people will game the system. No need for a mask while drinking? Have a permanent glass of something in your hand the whole time. Plenty of people will want to get used to holding a glass for the whole match more than they want to wear a mask for the whole match.
I know people who do that now.
Same on the trains but I don't think it's, or isn't definitely gaming as such. You have a drink/sandwich - are you really going to lift your mask up and down every time you take a sip?
I do. It's not a big deal. Pop it down, pop it up.
There was all of this when seatbelts were made compulsory but I bet you that 99 times out of 100 you don't even think about it now.
At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious, there is no need to take your seatbelt off and on during the course of a car journey.
At the risk of stating the bleedin' obvious that's untrue. Pop out to the shops and you're frequently taking it on and off.
Just belt up.
A little mask wearing for the ending of genuine restrictions is a very, very, small price to pay. Asia gets it. Only blockheaded Brits, of whom there are still some, don't.
I'm not blockheaded.
I have ASD and a history of anxiety and depression. The physical sensation of wearing a mask triggers all my worst sensory issues of feeling trapped.
Added to that I can't get past the logical idea that, if it's not safe to be somewhere without a mask then it's not safe to be there at all. Particularly given the standards of mask-wearing from other people (and my wearing a mask principally protects others from me, rather than vice versa).
If they keep requirements to wear a mask in places after widespread vaccination then I won't go to places.
That`s fine. That`s your choice. I feel confident in predicting that after all legal constraints are lifted many will still wear masks, some for protection and some for virtue signalling purposes. So in cafes, supermarkets, pubs, cinemas etc etc etc we will have gatherings of the masked and the non-masked. Will be like that for a long time I think.
Far better to see a gradual rollout and reduce the risk of the spread of mutations of the virus, than to see a rapid rise in mutations which requires another lockdown again without any reopening until another booster virus for the mutant is produced
No. The rationale for lockdown is to protect the NHS from overflowing. We should not constrain liberty because of perils which might pop up.
On balance, I think I've enjoyed the various lockdowns. I've certainly never got so much DIY done; I've repainted the entire house and put a new roof on the barn.
The only thing I've really missed are track days. Still booked for Spa for September which could be optimistic.
Haven't you been using the entire national motorway network as your track?
The proliferation of average speed cameras has ended Smokey Nagata style antics on M roads. Deserted local A roads now form the local "Durabergring". I've also got some Luxembourgois plates I bought off eBay for stealth mode.
In Brexit related news British track days are getting very expensive due to demand as it's now a colossal pain in the dick to take a non V5 vehicle (ie track day special) to Europe.
On balance, I think I've enjoyed the various lockdowns. I've certainly never got so much DIY done; I've repainted the entire house and put a new roof on the barn.
The only thing I've really missed are track days. Still booked for Spa for September which could be optimistic.
Haven't you been using the entire national motorway network as your track?
The proliferation of average speed cameras has ended Smokey Nagata style antics on M roads. Deserted local A roads now form the local "Durabergring". I've also got some Luxembourgois plates I bought off eBay for stealth mode.
In Brexit related news British track days are getting very expensive due to demand as it's now a colossal pain in the dick to take a non V5 vehicle (ie track day special) to Europe.
I sold a car yesterday. I got a truly shit price. Old Audi A1diesel.
"In the Commons there’s now even a growing group of Tory MPs who are pressing hard for change"
Numbers please? Because that is not what I am hearing.
There is one over-arching aim in Government - never again will there be Covid lockdowns. We will come out of lockdown when it is clear there will never be a need for more. Now, that might be quick, once the confirmation is in that a) the vaccines are as good as is hoped and b) the numbers for deliveries of those vaccines to give the jab to everyone are secured.
But if it needs an extra month to be completely sure, then the Government will take the extra pain to be able to say to the UK "Covid has been banished as an impediment to getting on with your life within this country* ". That is the political win within reach.
*Foreign travel for work or holibobs will be the very last thing to get the green light - and that could be quite some time. The UK has the genome testing capacity to know how safe it really is outside our borders. Again, the way the virus has retreated in just the past five weeks around the globe means the scope for mutations is already reducing markedly. If it continues - wonderful. But the win will not be lightly lost.
The smart money is on booking your holiday in 2021 in Northumberland. Or Scotland. Or Devon. That spend will be a one-off boost to a nation whose residents spent £62.3 billion on visits overseas in 2019, compared to overseas residents spending £28.4 billion on visits to the UK in 2019. Some of that overseas money will still come here, if it is from people with (non-forged) vaccine certificates. We will be opening earlier than most - restaurants, pubs, museums, galleries, the stuff to make a memorable holiday here. An obvious choice to come here (if you can find the accommodation). I have it on very good authority that the Governor of the Bank of England is very chipper about our prospects for coming out of Covid in a most robust fashion. Things are looking up. Prepare for a much, much better year. But only when it is beaten to the point where it isn't wrecking our lives ever again.
Very good post @MarqueeMark but can you clarify a couple of things?
I understood that when we come out it will be back into the tier system - is that how you understand it?
Secondly, you appear to be suggesting that foreign travellers will be permitted to travel into the country but UK citizens will be barred from travelling out.
Yes, tiers when we reopen - but again, only reducing. So unlikely to be many seeing tier 1 or 2 immediately.
On foreign travel, the ban will stay as the last Covid measure to go. Even then, when lifted, the message will continue to be exercise caution: if you lose your money, there'll be no compensation from the Government. If we are first out of lockdowns, that still means you risk spending 14 days in quarantine when you arrive at a place that is still way behind us.
So this year, give Scotland a try instead. You'll love it.
Er...no, we don’t need to give Hyufd ideas about trying Scotland, thanks.
Are saying he won't tank me?
How does one get to Scotland anyway? I`m fucked if I`m driving ten hours there and ten hours back. Train and then car hire I guess?
If you are brave enough to face airports....fly. Barely an hour to Glasgow or Inverness.
Maybe don't book until jab + 3 weeks. To be safe.
Jab update: arm feels like it has been kicked by a horse, but nothing else to report back.
The first lockdown was during a beautiful spring. November’s was so short I barely remember it. But this one...Kent has effectively been locked down for two months now. In that time we have had the drama and stress of the Transition period ending, my Yank wife in bits over the Capitol Insurrection, dark dark nights and most recently snow. People I know generally are generally suffering clear signs of clinical depression and burnout. I had to take a parcel to the Post Office and went to the one at WH Smith’s in Ashford so I could browse the books and be around people. I am also pulling together pics of the wife and me over the years on holiday for the US Immigration attorney which wraps me in almost unbearable nostalgia. I suffered badly first time around and have found coping mechanisms but I note that others are suffering far worse.
Yet whenever I am asked I will say I support the lockdown. It makes sense. I don’t want to kill other people or myself. But if someone said to me in the village “come over for a cup of tea” I would be tempted. I smoked quite regularly at Uni but would always describe myself as a non-smoker. Compliance and stated support are different things. I strongly suspect that this one is going to fray at the edges sooner rather than later.
Two months is nothing. The North East and certain parts of the North West have effectively been locked down since September, with brief periods where we were allowed to go to non-essential shops on our own. That's six months and counting.
The first lockdown was during a beautiful spring. November’s was so short I barely remember it. But this one...Kent has effectively been locked down for two months now. In that time we have had the drama and stress of the Transition period ending, my Yank wife in bits over the Capitol Insurrection, dark dark nights and most recently snow. People I know generally are generally suffering clear signs of clinical depression and burnout. I had to take a parcel to the Post Office and went to the one at WH Smith’s in Ashford so I could browse the books and be around people. I am also pulling together pics of the wife and me over the years on holiday for the US Immigration attorney which wraps me in almost unbearable nostalgia. I suffered badly first time around and have found coping mechanisms but I note that others are suffering far worse.
Yet whenever I am asked I will say I support the lockdown. It makes sense. I don’t want to kill other people or myself. But if someone said to me in the village “come over for a cup of tea” I would be tempted. I smoked quite regularly at Uni but would always describe myself as a non-smoker. Compliance and stated support are different things. I strongly suspect that this one is going to fray at the edges sooner rather than later.
If the timetable and the 1,000 case bar that we read about in the press are correct, there are going to be mass protests when the weather gets better.
"In the Commons there’s now even a growing group of Tory MPs who are pressing hard for change"
Numbers please? Because that is not what I am hearing.
There is one over-arching aim in Government - never again will there be Covid lockdowns. We will come out of lockdown when it is clear there will never be a need for more. Now, that might be quick, once the confirmation is in that a) the vaccines are as good as is hoped and b) the numbers for deliveries of those vaccines to give the jab to everyone are secured.
But if it needs an extra month to be completely sure, then the Government will take the extra pain to be able to say to the UK "Covid has been banished as an impediment to getting on with your life within this country* ". That is the political win within reach.
*Foreign travel for work or holibobs will be the very last thing to get the green light - and that could be quite some time. The UK has the genome testing capacity to know how safe it really is outside our borders. Again, the way the virus has retreated in just the past five weeks around the globe means the scope for mutations is already reducing markedly. If it continues - wonderful. But the win will not be lightly lost.
The smart money is on booking your holiday in 2021 in Northumberland. Or Scotland. Or Devon. That spend will be a one-off boost to a nation whose residents spent £62.3 billion on visits overseas in 2019, compared to overseas residents spending £28.4 billion on visits to the UK in 2019. Some of that overseas money will still come here, if it is from people with (non-forged) vaccine certificates. We will be opening earlier than most - restaurants, pubs, museums, galleries, the stuff to make a memorable holiday here. An obvious choice to come here (if you can find the accommodation). I have it on very good authority that the Governor of the Bank of England is very chipper about our prospects for coming out of Covid in a most robust fashion. Things are looking up. Prepare for a much, much better year. But only when it is beaten to the point where it isn't wrecking our lives ever again.
Very good post @MarqueeMark but can you clarify a couple of things?
I understood that when we come out it will be back into the tier system - is that how you understand it?
Secondly, you appear to be suggesting that foreign travellers will be permitted to travel into the country but UK citizens will be barred from travelling out.
Yes, tiers when we reopen - but again, only reducing. So unlikely to be many seeing tier 1 or 2 immediately.
On foreign travel, the ban will stay as the last Covid measure to go. Even then, when lifted, the message will continue to be exercise caution: if you lose your money, there'll be no compensation from the Government. If we are first out of lockdowns, that still means you risk spending 14 days in quarantine when you arrive at a place that is still way behind us.
So this year, give Scotland a try instead. You'll love it.
Er...no, we don’t need to give Hyufd ideas about trying Scotland, thanks.
Are saying he won't tank me?
How does one get to Scotland anyway? I`m fucked if I`m driving ten hours there and ten hours back. Train and then car hire I guess?
If you are brave enough to face airports....fly. Barely an hour to Glasgow or Inverness.
Maybe don't book until jab + 3 weeks. To be safe.
Jab update: arm feels like it has been kicked by a horse, but nothing else to report back.
Curious. My mum and dad both had Oxford AZN and didn`t feel a thing during or afterwards. Did you have the Oxford?
On balance, I think I've enjoyed the various lockdowns. I've certainly never got so much DIY done; I've repainted the entire house and put a new roof on the barn.
The only thing I've really missed are track days. Still booked for Spa for September which could be optimistic.
Haven't you been using the entire national motorway network as your track?
The proliferation of average speed cameras has ended Smokey Nagata style antics on M roads. Deserted local A roads now form the local "Durabergring". I've also got some Luxembourgois plates I bought off eBay for stealth mode.
In Brexit related news British track days are getting very expensive due to demand as it's now a colossal pain in the dick to take a non V5 vehicle (ie track day special) to Europe.
Remoaner nonsense. You need to get on board with the Global Britain project. She can take her horses to lovely Anglophone New Zealand through the planned tunnel from Hartlepool to Whangarei. It has been conceived in a nimble/non-sclerotic manner and will be known as the 'Boris Burrow'.
The first lockdown was during a beautiful spring. November’s was so short I barely remember it. But this one...Kent has effectively been locked down for two months now. In that time we have had the drama and stress of the Transition period ending, my Yank wife in bits over the Capitol Insurrection, dark dark nights and most recently snow. People I know generally are generally suffering clear signs of clinical depression and burnout. I had to take a parcel to the Post Office and went to the one at WH Smith’s in Ashford so I could browse the books and be around people. I am also pulling together pics of the wife and me over the years on holiday for the US Immigration attorney which wraps me in almost unbearable nostalgia. I suffered badly first time around and have found coping mechanisms but I note that others are suffering far worse.
Yet whenever I am asked I will say I support the lockdown. It makes sense. I don’t want to kill other people or myself. But if someone said to me in the village “come over for a cup of tea” I would be tempted. I smoked quite regularly at Uni but would always describe myself as a non-smoker. Compliance and stated support are different things. I strongly suspect that this one is going to fray at the edges sooner rather than later.
Two months is nothing. The North East and certain parts of the North West have effectively been locked down since September, with brief periods where we were allowed to go to non-essential shops on our own. That's six months and counting.
TBF, discounting a brief two week Tier 3 interlude in early December, it’s been 4 months in Kent.
Far better to see a gradual rollout and reduce the risk of the spread of mutations of the virus, than to see a rapid rise in mutations which requires another lockdown again without any reopening until another booster virus for the mutant is produced
No. The rationale for lockdown is to protect the NHS from overflowing. We should not constrain liberty because of perils which might pop up.
Especially perils which have a decent likelihood of cropping up anyway.
I think we might need to take the view that you need to maximise the spring and summer months in the reasonable probability case you need to lockdown again anyway in the autumn/winter pretty much regardless of anything else that happens.
I've been suffering from a mild depression for the first time in my life in recent weeks.
How do I know it's a depression?
Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert. But my symptoms match what I understand are common ones online.
I'm tired in the morning. I'm tired during the day. I'm tired in the evening. I don't sleep well at night.
I am listless during the day. I stare and drift. I can't focus. I struggle to read books or even newspaper articles - they are too big and long and take too much effort - I go off Netflix and Amazon series almost immediately. I don't want to leave the house. I feel better when I leave the house. I don't want to talk to people outside the house. I feel better if I do see a smile outside the house.
I'm aggressive and frustrated. I want to start fights. On social media and even with my wife. I immediately regret it when I do and feel victimised when they strike back, as they do. A lingering comment can stay with me for weeks. Which puts me off talking to people at all.
The only way I get work done is through immense self-discipline and short bursts of productivity at times when I have no choice, and I absolutely must. I just about do it. I put on a "game face" on for meetings - but I've even dodged a few of those. My tolerance for work colleagues I don't quite click with or who annoy me is virtually zero. And I don't care.
So this lockdown is really really shit. Everyone I've spoken to feels the same. I don't know how many feel how I feel, but I suspect it's undercounted.
It would make all the difference to see close friends and family, and go into work once a week in London (couldn't give tuppence for all the rest really) and get away on holiday with my family, where we can play and eat and have fun. Because that's living. And this is no life.
I'm pushing the boundaries of these rules as far as I can (and some) and feel I have no alternative if I am to maintain some basic level of sanity. Sorry.
I feel very similar. I was actually glad to have a major operational snafu to deal with late yesterday, because it was something immediate that I could focus on.
But I can't bend the rules. I am too worried about bringing the virus home, or of passing it on to someone vulnerable elsewhere.
I am waiting for the vaccination. I am hoping the evidence will show they inhibit transmission.
Question for Internet experts: is there any kind of Nigel Farage blocking software that can be used with YouTube?
I am very happy for him that he has finally found his niche as a high-tech door-to-door salesman. But I don't want to see or hear him.
The last thing I would want to do is block people I disagree with. I dont want to live in an echo chamber.
The problem is not blocking Farage the politician, it is blocking Farage the financial snake-oil salesman whose adverts abound on Youtube and perhaps elsewhere.
The first lockdown was during a beautiful spring. November’s was so short I barely remember it. But this one...Kent has effectively been locked down for two months now. In that time we have had the drama and stress of the Transition period ending, my Yank wife in bits over the Capitol Insurrection, dark dark nights and most recently snow. People I know generally are generally suffering clear signs of clinical depression and burnout. I had to take a parcel to the Post Office and went to the one at WH Smith’s in Ashford so I could browse the books and be around people. I am also pulling together pics of the wife and me over the years on holiday for the US Immigration attorney which wraps me in almost unbearable nostalgia. I suffered badly first time around and have found coping mechanisms but I note that others are suffering far worse.
Yet whenever I am asked I will say I support the lockdown. It makes sense. I don’t want to kill other people or myself. But if someone said to me in the village “come over for a cup of tea” I would be tempted. I smoked quite regularly at Uni but would always describe myself as a non-smoker. Compliance and stated support are different things. I strongly suspect that this one is going to fray at the edges sooner rather than later.
If the timetable and the 1,000 case bar that we read about in the press are correct, there are going to be mass protests when the weather gets better.
Mass protests.
That`s the problem - I don`t think there will be mass protests. Not with financial support in place.
As I have long said India would be less affected than the West by Covid as it has an average life expectancy of only 69 compared to over 80 in most of the West and the death rate from Covid is highest amongst over 70s and especially over 80s
The first lockdown was during a beautiful spring. November’s was so short I barely remember it. But this one...Kent has effectively been locked down for two months now. In that time we have had the drama and stress of the Transition period ending, my Yank wife in bits over the Capitol Insurrection, dark dark nights and most recently snow. People I know generally are generally suffering clear signs of clinical depression and burnout. I had to take a parcel to the Post Office and went to the one at WH Smith’s in Ashford so I could browse the books and be around people. I am also pulling together pics of the wife and me over the years on holiday for the US Immigration attorney which wraps me in almost unbearable nostalgia. I suffered badly first time around and have found coping mechanisms but I note that others are suffering far worse.
Yet whenever I am asked I will say I support the lockdown. It makes sense. I don’t want to kill other people or myself. But if someone said to me in the village “come over for a cup of tea” I would be tempted. I smoked quite regularly at Uni but would always describe myself as a non-smoker. Compliance and stated support are different things. I strongly suspect that this one is going to fray at the edges sooner rather than later.
Two months is nothing. The North East and certain parts of the North West have effectively been locked down since September, with brief periods where we were allowed to go to non-essential shops on our own. That's six months and counting.
TBF, discounting a brief two week Tier 3 interlude in early December, it’s been 4 months in Kent.
Public order has been maintained because of the promise of vaccines. Now the vaccines are here. That noise you can hear is the goalposts being dismantled and moved wholesale to a point, 1,000 cases a day, it will be inordinately difficult to reach and maintain.
I've been suffering from a mild depression for the first time in my life in recent weeks.
How do I know it's a depression?
Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert. But my symptoms match what I understand are common ones online.
I'm tired in the morning. I'm tired during the day. I'm tired in the evening. I don't sleep well at night.
I am listless during the day. I stare and drift. I can't focus. I struggle to read books or even newspaper articles - they are too big and long and take too much effort - I go off Netflix and Amazon series almost immediately. I don't want to leave the house. I feel better when I leave the house. I don't want to talk to people outside the house. I feel better if I do see a smile outside the house.
I'm aggressive and frustrated. I want to start fights. On social media and even with my wife. I immediately regret it when I do and feel victimised when they strike back, as they do. A lingering comment can stay with me for weeks. Which puts me off talking to people at all.
The only way I get work done is through immense self-discipline and short bursts of productivity at times when I have no choice, and I absolutely must. I just about do it. I put on a "game face" on for meetings - but I've even dodged a few of those. My tolerance for work colleagues I don't quite click with or who annoy me is virtually zero. And I don't care.
So this lockdown is really really shit. Everyone I've spoken to feels the same. I don't know how many feel how I feel, but I suspect it's undercounted.
It would make all the difference to see close friends and family, and go into work once a week in London (couldn't give tuppence for all the rest really) and get away on holiday with my family, where we can play and eat and have fun. Because that's living. And this is no life.
I'm pushing the boundaries of these rules as far as I can (and some) and feel I have no alternative if I am to maintain some basic level of sanity. Sorry.
I feel very similar. I was actually glad to have a major operational snafu to deal with late yesterday, because it was something immediate that I could focus on.
But I can't bend the rules. I am too worried about bringing the virus home, of passing it on to someone vulnerable.
I am waiting for the vaccination. I am hoping the evidence will show they inhibit transmission.
They must inhibit transmission - for a start the infected won`t be sneezing. Nowhere will be safe though - don`t aim for that. Leading any sort of life involves accepting some risk.
The first lockdown was during a beautiful spring. November’s was so short I barely remember it. But this one...Kent has effectively been locked down for two months now. In that time we have had the drama and stress of the Transition period ending, my Yank wife in bits over the Capitol Insurrection, dark dark nights and most recently snow. People I know generally are generally suffering clear signs of clinical depression and burnout. I had to take a parcel to the Post Office and went to the one at WH Smith’s in Ashford so I could browse the books and be around people. I am also pulling together pics of the wife and me over the years on holiday for the US Immigration attorney which wraps me in almost unbearable nostalgia. I suffered badly first time around and have found coping mechanisms but I note that others are suffering far worse.
Yet whenever I am asked I will say I support the lockdown. It makes sense. I don’t want to kill other people or myself. But if someone said to me in the village “come over for a cup of tea” I would be tempted. I smoked quite regularly at Uni but would always describe myself as a non-smoker. Compliance and stated support are different things. I strongly suspect that this one is going to fray at the edges sooner rather than later.
Two months is nothing. The North East and certain parts of the North West have effectively been locked down since September, with brief periods where we were allowed to go to non-essential shops on our own. That's six months and counting.
I've been suffering from a mild depression for the first time in my life in recent weeks.
How do I know it's a depression?
Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert. But my symptoms match what I understand are common ones online.
I'm tired in the morning. I'm tired during the day. I'm tired in the evening. I don't sleep well at night.
I am listless during the day. I stare and drift. I can't focus. I struggle to read books or even newspaper articles - they are too big and long and take too much effort - I go off Netflix and Amazon series almost immediately. I don't want to leave the house. I feel better when I leave the house. I don't want to talk to people outside the house. I feel better if I do see a smile outside the house.
I'm aggressive and frustrated. I want to start fights. On social media and even with my wife. I immediately regret it when I do and feel victimised when they strike back, as they do. A lingering comment can stay with me for weeks. Which puts me off talking to people at all.
The only way I get work done is through immense self-discipline and short bursts of productivity at times when I have no choice, and I absolutely must. I just about do it. I put on a "game face" on for meetings - but I've even dodged a few of those. My tolerance for work colleagues I don't quite click with or who annoy me is virtually zero. And I don't care.
So this lockdown is really really shit. Everyone I've spoken to feels the same. I don't know how many feel how I feel, but I suspect it's undercounted.
It would make all the difference to see close friends and family, and go into work once a week in London (couldn't give tuppence for all the rest really) and get away on holiday with my family, where we can play and eat and have fun. Because that's living. And this is no life.
I'm pushing the boundaries of these rules as far as I can (and some) and feel I have no alternative if I am to maintain some basic level of sanity. Sorry.
I'm sorry to hear that mate and I agree with basically all of what you're saying.
This lockdown has been the worst and if it hadn't been for our house move I think it would have been a lot worse because I'd have had nothing outside of work to set my mind to. Now that it's done both my wife and I are definitely struggling. We're not people who can simply sit in front of the TV and stay there for hours on end and we have pretty active social lives in normal times.
I really miss just being able to message a mate and head to the pub or brewery bar on a Saturday afternoon. I miss being able to meet my wife at 11pm somewhere in the square mile on Thursday or Friday after work drinks and then head for a late dinner and stay out even later for drinks.
The idea that some NHS bod thinks that we need to keep social distancing indefinitely is completely depressing. I'm grateful that MPs like Steve Baker exist to ensure that boot of normal life is kept on the PM's neck and rule by scientist isn't really on the cards.
Note Mike writes, in the second paragraph, that the great vaccine effect makes things "much harder" for Johnson.
The fact that this doesn`t read "much easier" (as it should) is testament to that the default position of "lockdown over liberties" and testament to the government`s default aim of "must avoid criticism" over growing some balls and taking us out of this nightmare as quickly as possible within NHS capacity.
We shouldn`t be constrained for a day longer than is necessary and that is legal.
Just catching up on threads. Firstly, excellent piece by Mike – there have been some brilliant leaders by the Smithsons (Jr and Sr) in recent days. Also enjoyed the linked column by Dr John Lees in the Mail.
I couldn't agree more with @Stocky here – the government needs to grow a pair. The first and most important step is drumming into the Mad Scientists that it is HOSPITALISATIONS that should be the key metric not CASES (h/t @theProle FPT).
The first lockdown was during a beautiful spring. November’s was so short I barely remember it. But this one...Kent has effectively been locked down for two months now. In that time we have had the drama and stress of the Transition period ending, my Yank wife in bits over the Capitol Insurrection, dark dark nights and most recently snow. People I know generally are generally suffering clear signs of clinical depression and burnout. I had to take a parcel to the Post Office and went to the one at WH Smith’s in Ashford so I could browse the books and be around people. I am also pulling together pics of the wife and me over the years on holiday for the US Immigration attorney which wraps me in almost unbearable nostalgia. I suffered badly first time around and have found coping mechanisms but I note that others are suffering far worse.
Yet whenever I am asked I will say I support the lockdown. It makes sense. I don’t want to kill other people or myself. But if someone said to me in the village “come over for a cup of tea” I would be tempted. I smoked quite regularly at Uni but would always describe myself as a non-smoker. Compliance and stated support are different things. I strongly suspect that this one is going to fray at the edges sooner rather than later.
Two months is nothing. The North East and certain parts of the North West have effectively been locked down since September, with brief periods where we were allowed to go to non-essential shops on our own. That's six months and counting.
I think this is the thing. It's not about counting from the start of "official" lockdown "you must stay at home" type government emergency messages, it's about counting from when the restrictions really began to re-ramp up again and yes that means in most instances September.
And even that is forgoing the fact that a lot of the stuff you *could* technically do during the summer a lot of folk didn't do because it wasn't worth the hassle or was still against general guidance or whatever.
As I have long said India would be less affected than the West by Covid as it has an average life expectancy of only 69 compared to over 80 in most of the West and the death rate from Covid is highest amongst over 70s and especially over 80s
As I have long said India would be less affected than the West by Covid as it has an average life expectancy of only 69 compared to over 80 in most of the West and the death rate from Covid is highest amongst over 70s and especially over 80s
India, Florida, South Dakota, Sweden.
These countries and states are driving a coach and horses through the post hoc ergo propter hoc argument of the lockdown fanatics.
On topic, I guess this hinges on what your definition of "lockdown" means? Some seem to think it applies for as long as maskwearing, social distancing and a rule of 6 apply.
My definition is it ends when you're told you no longer must "stay at home", and can travel for social, domestic and leisure purposes as well as business ones.
Looking at the Mail definitions in the thread header that looks like either April or May to me, and not as late as July.
Yep.
The mystery of India is continuing to cause head scratching amongst scientists. One theory is that mask wearing is responsible.
There's obviously by now lots of evidence that a good mask prevents a lot of airborne virus transmission as well as the more obvious droplet one.
I mention this because the Gov't could sell this pretty strongly: put up with mask wearing for a while in indoor public venues as the price we pay for ending of almost all other restrictions.
If that was the offer almost everyone in the country would take it. Except Laurence Fox, obvs.
That is an interesting thought. I would love to know what people who have to wear masks nearly all the time think. Did they just get used to them? I do not like wearing them, but it doesn't cause me any issues because I appreciate the benefits of doing so and I am fortunate that I don't have to do it very much. Bars and restaurants are obviously impossible and a packed bar must be a top spreading environment. I can't see it working at a pop concert either.
I've lived in Asia and used to wear one out there. I honestly barely notice I'm wearing it now. It's just like putting on knickers, a blouse or a dress. Well, okay, that's a slight exaggeration but it's not a particularly big deal for me anymore.
I meant to say 'aerosol' transmission in my earlier post rather than merely airborne.
I think we'll get to the point when they're not really necessary but they should probably be the last thing to be dropped. It's a very small price to pay if all other restrictions are lifted.
They're a bugger with hearing aids AND spectacles, though. Even the ones with tapes which go right the head get mixed up with one or the other.
I see your hearing aids and fogged up glasses and raise you maskne (acne and other skin eruptions).
"In the Commons there’s now even a growing group of Tory MPs who are pressing hard for change"
Numbers please? Because that is not what I am hearing.
There is one over-arching aim in Government - never again will there be Covid lockdowns. We will come out of lockdown when it is clear there will never be a need for more. Now, that might be quick, once the confirmation is in that a) the vaccines are as good as is hoped and b) the numbers for deliveries of those vaccines to give the jab to everyone are secured.
But if it needs an extra month to be completely sure, then the Government will take the extra pain to be able to say to the UK "Covid has been banished as an impediment to getting on with your life within this country* ". That is the political win within reach.
*Foreign travel for work or holibobs will be the very last thing to get the green light - and that could be quite some time. The UK has the genome testing capacity to know how safe it really is outside our borders. Again, the way the virus has retreated in just the past five weeks around the globe means the scope for mutations is already reducing markedly. If it continues - wonderful. But the win will not be lightly lost.
The smart money is on booking your holiday in 2021 in Northumberland. Or Scotland. Or Devon. That spend will be a one-off boost to a nation whose residents spent £62.3 billion on visits overseas in 2019, compared to overseas residents spending £28.4 billion on visits to the UK in 2019. Some of that overseas money will still come here, if it is from people with (non-forged) vaccine certificates. We will be opening earlier than most - restaurants, pubs, museums, galleries, the stuff to make a memorable holiday here. An obvious choice to come here (if you can find the accommodation). I have it on very good authority that the Governor of the Bank of England is very chipper about our prospects for coming out of Covid in a most robust fashion. Things are looking up. Prepare for a much, much better year. But only when it is beaten to the point where it isn't wrecking our lives ever again.
Very good post @MarqueeMark but can you clarify a couple of things?
I understood that when we come out it will be back into the tier system - is that how you understand it?
Secondly, you appear to be suggesting that foreign travellers will be permitted to travel into the country but UK citizens will be barred from travelling out.
Yes, tiers when we reopen - but again, only reducing. So unlikely to be many seeing tier 1 or 2 immediately.
On foreign travel, the ban will stay as the last Covid measure to go. Even then, when lifted, the message will continue to be exercise caution: if you lose your money, there'll be no compensation from the Government. If we are first out of lockdowns, that still means you risk spending 14 days in quarantine when you arrive at a place that is still way behind us.
So this year, give Scotland a try instead. You'll love it.
Er...no, we don’t need to give Hyufd ideas about trying Scotland, thanks.
Are saying he won't tank me?
How does one get to Scotland anyway? I`m fucked if I`m driving ten hours there and ten hours back. Train and then car hire I guess?
If you are brave enough to face airports....fly. Barely an hour to Glasgow or Inverness.
Maybe don't book until jab + 3 weeks. To be safe.
Jab update: arm feels like it has been kicked by a horse, but nothing else to report back.
If I may ask - are you in a special group to have received it so early?
"In the Commons there’s now even a growing group of Tory MPs who are pressing hard for change"
Numbers please? Because that is not what I am hearing.
There is one over-arching aim in Government - never again will there be Covid lockdowns. We will come out of lockdown when it is clear there will never be a need for more. Now, that might be quick, once the confirmation is in that a) the vaccines are as good as is hoped and b) the numbers for deliveries of those vaccines to give the jab to everyone are secured.
But if it needs an extra month to be completely sure, then the Government will take the extra pain to be able to say to the UK "Covid has been banished as an impediment to getting on with your life within this country* ". That is the political win within reach.
*Foreign travel for work or holibobs will be the very last thing to get the green light - and that could be quite some time. The UK has the genome testing capacity to know how safe it really is outside our borders. Again, the way the virus has retreated in just the past five weeks around the globe means the scope for mutations is already reducing markedly. If it continues - wonderful. But the win will not be lightly lost.
The smart money is on booking your holiday in 2021 in Northumberland. Or Scotland. Or Devon. That spend will be a one-off boost to a nation whose residents spent £62.3 billion on visits overseas in 2019, compared to overseas residents spending £28.4 billion on visits to the UK in 2019. Some of that overseas money will still come here, if it is from people with (non-forged) vaccine certificates. We will be opening earlier than most - restaurants, pubs, museums, galleries, the stuff to make a memorable holiday here. An obvious choice to come here (if you can find the accommodation). I have it on very good authority that the Governor of the Bank of England is very chipper about our prospects for coming out of Covid in a most robust fashion. Things are looking up. Prepare for a much, much better year. But only when it is beaten to the point where it isn't wrecking our lives ever again.
Very good post @MarqueeMark but can you clarify a couple of things?
I understood that when we come out it will be back into the tier system - is that how you understand it?
Secondly, you appear to be suggesting that foreign travellers will be permitted to travel into the country but UK citizens will be barred from travelling out.
Yes, tiers when we reopen - but again, only reducing. So unlikely to be many seeing tier 1 or 2 immediately.
On foreign travel, the ban will stay as the last Covid measure to go. Even then, when lifted, the message will continue to be exercise caution: if you lose your money, there'll be no compensation from the Government. If we are first out of lockdowns, that still means you risk spending 14 days in quarantine when you arrive at a place that is still way behind us.
So this year, give Scotland a try instead. You'll love it.
Er...no, we don’t need to give Hyufd ideas about trying Scotland, thanks.
Are saying he won't tank me?
How does one get to Scotland anyway? I`m fucked if I`m driving ten hours there and ten hours back. Train and then car hire I guess?
Nine hours to Oban from Central London is/was a general rule of thumb. Otherwise take one of the most beautiful train journeys (certainly when you get north of Leeds) on the ECML KingsX to Edinburgh.
Edit: and sit on the right of the train as it goes through Berwick.
Getting to Scotland is easy thanks, it's 15 minutes drive away. Except you are almost certainly breaking some law by going there, and coming back. But if you have to go by train from London don't miss the view from Durham station.
I've been suffering from a mild depression for the first time in my life in recent weeks.
How do I know it's a depression?
Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert. But my symptoms match what I understand are common ones online.
I'm tired in the morning. I'm tired during the day. I'm tired in the evening. I don't sleep well at night.
I am listless during the day. I stare and drift. I can't focus. I struggle to read books or even newspaper articles - they are too big and long and take too much effort - I go off Netflix and Amazon series almost immediately. I don't want to leave the house. I feel better when I leave the house. I don't want to talk to people outside the house. I feel better if I do see a smile outside the house.
I'm aggressive and frustrated. I want to start fights. On social media and even with my wife. I immediately regret it when I do and feel victimised when they strike back, as they do. A lingering comment can stay with me for weeks. Which puts me off talking to people at all.
The only way I get work done is through immense self-discipline and short bursts of productivity at times when I have no choice, and I absolutely must. I just about do it. I put on a "game face" on for meetings - but I've even dodged a few of those. My tolerance for work colleagues I don't quite click with or who annoy me is virtually zero. And I don't care.
So this lockdown is really really shit. Everyone I've spoken to feels the same. I don't know how many feel how I feel, but I suspect it's undercounted.
It would make all the difference to see close friends and family, and go into work once a week in London (couldn't give tuppence for all the rest really) and get away on holiday with my family, where we can play and eat and have fun. Because that's living. And this is no life.
I'm pushing the boundaries of these rules as far as I can (and some) and feel I have no alternative if I am to maintain some basic level of sanity. Sorry.
I'm sorry to hear that mate and I agree with basically all of what you're saying.
This lockdown has been the worst and if it hadn't been for our house move I think it would have been a lot worse because I'd have had nothing outside of work to set my mind to. Now that it's done both my wife and I are definitely struggling. We're not people who can simply sit in front of the TV and stay there for hours on end and we have pretty active social lives in normal times.
I really miss just being able to message a mate and head to the pub or brewery bar on a Saturday afternoon. I miss being able to meet my wife at 11pm somewhere in the square mile on Thursday or Friday after work drinks and then head for a late dinner and stay out even later for drinks.
The idea that some NHS bod thinks that we need to keep social distancing indefinitely is completely depressing. I'm grateful that MPs like Steve Baker exist to ensure that boot of normal life is kept on the PM's neck and rule by scientist isn't really on the cards.
And consider that all of us moaning have nice houses and maybe large gardens. What of those cooped up in a flat with children off school and with financial worries. It doesn`t bear thinking about.
The first lockdown was during a beautiful spring. November’s was so short I barely remember it. But this one...Kent has effectively been locked down for two months now. In that time we have had the drama and stress of the Transition period ending, my Yank wife in bits over the Capitol Insurrection, dark dark nights and most recently snow. People I know generally are generally suffering clear signs of clinical depression and burnout. I had to take a parcel to the Post Office and went to the one at WH Smith’s in Ashford so I could browse the books and be around people. I am also pulling together pics of the wife and me over the years on holiday for the US Immigration attorney which wraps me in almost unbearable nostalgia. I suffered badly first time around and have found coping mechanisms but I note that others are suffering far worse.
Yet whenever I am asked I will say I support the lockdown. It makes sense. I don’t want to kill other people or myself. But if someone said to me in the village “come over for a cup of tea” I would be tempted. I smoked quite regularly at Uni but would always describe myself as a non-smoker. Compliance and stated support are different things. I strongly suspect that this one is going to fray at the edges sooner rather than later.
If the timetable and the 1,000 case bar that we read about in the press are correct, there are going to be mass protests when the weather gets better.
Mass protests.
That`s the problem - I don`t think there will be mass protests. Not with financial support in place.
You are correct but that will have to end soon. Inflation expectations are making a comeback. Long US rates are starting to spike upwards, and other bond markets cannot resist for ever.
The government's economic suspended animation is going to catch up with it.
The first lockdown was during a beautiful spring. November’s was so short I barely remember it. But this one...Kent has effectively been locked down for two months now. In that time we have had the drama and stress of the Transition period ending, my Yank wife in bits over the Capitol Insurrection, dark dark nights and most recently snow. People I know generally are generally suffering clear signs of clinical depression and burnout. I had to take a parcel to the Post Office and went to the one at WH Smith’s in Ashford so I could browse the books and be around people. I am also pulling together pics of the wife and me over the years on holiday for the US Immigration attorney which wraps me in almost unbearable nostalgia. I suffered badly first time around and have found coping mechanisms but I note that others are suffering far worse.
Yet whenever I am asked I will say I support the lockdown. It makes sense. I don’t want to kill other people or myself. But if someone said to me in the village “come over for a cup of tea” I would be tempted. I smoked quite regularly at Uni but would always describe myself as a non-smoker. Compliance and stated support are different things. I strongly suspect that this one is going to fray at the edges sooner rather than later.
If the timetable and the 1,000 case bar that we read about in the press are correct, there are going to be mass protests when the weather gets better.
Mass protests.
That`s the problem - I don`t think there will be mass protests. Not with financial support in place.
There won't be mass protests. Just loads of folk congregated on beaches or whatever trying to get on with their lives, with TV news reports endlessly fretting about why people have some great desire not to stay at home like the regulations say.
A random thought just crossed my mind - turnout in Sunday's Catalan election was down almost 25 points. Even though separatist parties narrowly won most votes, the momentum towards independence is now completely stalled. The clamour for separation just isn't there. I wonder whether a low turnout in the Scottish elections is the way out for the UK government even if the SNP/Greens win a majority. They can point to a lower number of voters than in previous elections and just say not enough people care enough, there are other priorities.
Note Mike writes, in the second paragraph, that the great vaccine effect makes things "much harder" for Johnson.
The fact that this doesn`t read "much easier" (as it should) is testament to that the default position of "lockdown over liberties" and testament to the government`s default aim of "must avoid criticism" over growing some balls and taking us out of this nightmare as quickly as possible within NHS capacity.
We shouldn`t be constrained for a day longer than is necessary and that is legal.
Just catching up on threads. Firstly, excellent piece by Mike – there have been some brilliant leaders by the Smithsons (Jr and Sr) in recent days. Also enjoyed the linked column by Dr John Lees in the Mail.
I couldn't agree more with @Stocky here – the government needs to grow a pair. The first and most important step is drumming into the Mad Scientists that it is HOSPITALISATIONS that should be the key metric not CASES (h/t @theProle FPT).
Do we even need to know the number of daily positive cases anymore? Isn`t this just stoking up fear?
On topic, I guess this hinges on what your definition of "lockdown" means? Some seem to think it applies for as long as maskwearing, social distancing and a rule of 6 apply.
My definition is it ends when you're told you no longer must "stay at home", and can travel for social, domestic and leisure purposes as well as business ones.
Looking at the Mail definitions in the thread header that looks like either April or May to me, and not as late as July.
Yep.
The mystery of India is continuing to cause head scratching amongst scientists. One theory is that mask wearing is responsible.
There's obviously by now lots of evidence that a good mask prevents a lot of airborne virus transmission as well as the more obvious droplet one.
I mention this because the Gov't could sell this pretty strongly: put up with mask wearing for a while in indoor public venues as the price we pay for ending of almost all other restrictions.
If that was the offer almost everyone in the country would take it. Except Laurence Fox, obvs.
That is an interesting thought. I would love to know what people who have to wear masks nearly all the time think. Did they just get used to them? I do not like wearing them, but it doesn't cause me any issues because I appreciate the benefits of doing so and I am fortunate that I don't have to do it very much. Bars and restaurants are obviously impossible and a packed bar must be a top spreading environment. I can't see it working at a pop concert either.
I've lived in Asia and used to wear one out there. I honestly barely notice I'm wearing it now. It's just like putting on knickers, a blouse or a dress. Well, okay, that's a slight exaggeration but it's not a particularly big deal for me anymore.
I meant to say 'aerosol' transmission in my earlier post rather than merely airborne.
I think we'll get to the point when they're not really necessary but they should probably be the last thing to be dropped. It's a very small price to pay if all other restrictions are lifted.
In my five years in Asia I never noticed one foreigner wear a mask. Not in Peking, nor Bangkok.
And as for the general point, we are all vaccinated with an approx 90% efficiency. So not zero by any means but pretty ok. And we still have to wear masks? Something's not right.
You didn't meet me but I'll bet you're referring to a fair time ago. I've lived in Bangkok and other parts and lots of us got used to wearing masks post-SARS. Certainly since 2010 they were becoming much more commonplace.
Anyway, it's moot. I don't think anyone seriously (or anyone serious) now denies that they help prevent transmission. So to answer your question it's clearly a case that we don't lift all restrictions in one nuclear moment. It will be a gradual lifting and masks should probably be the final one, or thereabouts.
And yup I've been described as writing like an American.
Yes you are right - a fair time ago. And used properly masks certainly do prevent transmission. But I believe the Asian people (especially those abroad) wearing them were more concerned about protecting themselves. But of course have no idea.
I've family who live near, but not in Bangkok and they don't wear masks. The older children do sometimes around school, though. The air can be very polluted; nearly as bad as the fogs I recall back here in the 50's and 60's.
Note Mike writes, in the second paragraph, that the great vaccine effect makes things "much harder" for Johnson.
The fact that this doesn`t read "much easier" (as it should) is testament to that the default position of "lockdown over liberties" and testament to the government`s default aim of "must avoid criticism" over growing some balls and taking us out of this nightmare as quickly as possible within NHS capacity.
We shouldn`t be constrained for a day longer than is necessary and that is legal.
Just catching up on threads. Firstly, excellent piece by Mike – there have been some brilliant leaders by the Smithsons (Jr and Sr) in recent days. Also enjoyed the linked column by Dr John Lees in the Mail.
I couldn't agree more with @Stocky here – the government needs to grow a pair. The first and most important step is drumming into the Mad Scientists that it is HOSPITALISATIONS that should be the key metric not CASES (h/t @theProle FPT).
Do we even need to know the number of daily positive cases anymore? Isn`t this just stoking up fear?
No. Watching the daily positive cases coming down is one of the only things that gives me optimism and hope.
I've been suffering from a mild depression for the first time in my life in recent weeks.
How do I know it's a depression?
Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert. But my symptoms match what I understand are common ones online.
I'm tired in the morning. I'm tired during the day. I'm tired in the evening. I don't sleep well at night.
I am listless during the day. I stare and drift. I can't focus. I struggle to read books or even newspaper articles - they are too big and long and take too much effort - I go off Netflix and Amazon series almost immediately. I don't want to leave the house. I feel better when I leave the house. I don't want to talk to people outside the house. I feel better if I do see a smile outside the house.
I'm aggressive and frustrated. I want to start fights. On social media and even with my wife. I immediately regret it when I do and feel victimised when they strike back, as they do. A lingering comment can stay with me for weeks. Which puts me off talking to people at all.
The only way I get work done is through immense self-discipline and short bursts of productivity at times when I have no choice, and I absolutely must. I just about do it. I put on a "game face" on for meetings - but I've even dodged a few of those. My tolerance for work colleagues I don't quite click with or who annoy me is virtually zero. And I don't care.
So this lockdown is really really shit. Everyone I've spoken to feels the same. I don't know how many feel how I feel, but I suspect it's undercounted.
It would make all the difference to see close friends and family, and go into work once a week in London (couldn't give tuppence for all the rest really) and get away on holiday with my family, where we can play and eat and have fun. Because that's living. And this is no life.
I'm pushing the boundaries of these rules as far as I can (and some) and feel I have no alternative if I am to maintain some basic level of sanity. Sorry.
I'm sorry to hear that mate and I agree with basically all of what you're saying.
This lockdown has been the worst and if it hadn't been for our house move I think it would have been a lot worse because I'd have had nothing outside of work to set my mind to. Now that it's done both my wife and I are definitely struggling. We're not people who can simply sit in front of the TV and stay there for hours on end and we have pretty active social lives in normal times.
I really miss just being able to message a mate and head to the pub or brewery bar on a Saturday afternoon. I miss being able to meet my wife at 11pm somewhere in the square mile on Thursday or Friday after work drinks and then head for a late dinner and stay out even later for drinks.
The idea that some NHS bod thinks that we need to keep social distancing indefinitely is completely depressing. I'm grateful that MPs like Steve Baker exist to ensure that boot of normal life is kept on the PM's neck and rule by scientist isn't really on the cards.
Its a bit rich that people whose argument you have spent the last year pouring scorn on are suddenly being relied on to get you out of a dreadful situation.
Email your own MP. Email your councillors.
Cut some mouthy anti-lockdown sceptic organisation a small cheque.
"In the Commons there’s now even a growing group of Tory MPs who are pressing hard for change"
Numbers please? Because that is not what I am hearing.
There is one over-arching aim in Government - never again will there be Covid lockdowns. We will come out of lockdown when it is clear there will never be a need for more. Now, that might be quick, once the confirmation is in that a) the vaccines are as good as is hoped and b) the numbers for deliveries of those vaccines to give the jab to everyone are secured.
But if it needs an extra month to be completely sure, then the Government will take the extra pain to be able to say to the UK "Covid has been banished as an impediment to getting on with your life within this country* ". That is the political win within reach.
*Foreign travel for work or holibobs will be the very last thing to get the green light - and that could be quite some time. The UK has the genome testing capacity to know how safe it really is outside our borders. Again, the way the virus has retreated in just the past five weeks around the globe means the scope for mutations is already reducing markedly. If it continues - wonderful. But the win will not be lightly lost.
The smart money is on booking your holiday in 2021 in Northumberland. Or Scotland. Or Devon. That spend will be a one-off boost to a nation whose residents spent £62.3 billion on visits overseas in 2019, compared to overseas residents spending £28.4 billion on visits to the UK in 2019. Some of that overseas money will still come here, if it is from people with (non-forged) vaccine certificates. We will be opening earlier than most - restaurants, pubs, museums, galleries, the stuff to make a memorable holiday here. An obvious choice to come here (if you can find the accommodation). I have it on very good authority that the Governor of the Bank of England is very chipper about our prospects for coming out of Covid in a most robust fashion. Things are looking up. Prepare for a much, much better year. But only when it is beaten to the point where it isn't wrecking our lives ever again.
Very good post @MarqueeMark but can you clarify a couple of things?
I understood that when we come out it will be back into the tier system - is that how you understand it?
Secondly, you appear to be suggesting that foreign travellers will be permitted to travel into the country but UK citizens will be barred from travelling out.
Yes, tiers when we reopen - but again, only reducing. So unlikely to be many seeing tier 1 or 2 immediately.
On foreign travel, the ban will stay as the last Covid measure to go. Even then, when lifted, the message will continue to be exercise caution: if you lose your money, there'll be no compensation from the Government. If we are first out of lockdowns, that still means you risk spending 14 days in quarantine when you arrive at a place that is still way behind us.
So this year, give Scotland a try instead. You'll love it.
Er...no, we don’t need to give Hyufd ideas about trying Scotland, thanks.
Are saying he won't tank me?
How does one get to Scotland anyway? I`m fucked if I`m driving ten hours there and ten hours back. Train and then car hire I guess?
Nine hours to Oban from Central London is/was a general rule of thumb. Otherwise take one of the most beautiful train journeys (certainly when you get north of Leeds) on the ECML KingsX to Edinburgh.
Edit: and sit on the right of the train as it goes through Berwick.
Getting to Scotland is easy thanks, it's 15 minutes drive away. Except you are almost certainly breaking some law by going there, and coming back. But if you have to go by train from London don't miss the view from Durham station.
Note Mike writes, in the second paragraph, that the great vaccine effect makes things "much harder" for Johnson.
The fact that this doesn`t read "much easier" (as it should) is testament to that the default position of "lockdown over liberties" and testament to the government`s default aim of "must avoid criticism" over growing some balls and taking us out of this nightmare as quickly as possible within NHS capacity.
We shouldn`t be constrained for a day longer than is necessary and that is legal.
Just catching up on threads. Firstly, excellent piece by Mike – there have been some brilliant leaders by the Smithsons (Jr and Sr) in recent days. Also enjoyed the linked column by Dr John Lees in the Mail.
I couldn't agree more with @Stocky here – the government needs to grow a pair. The first and most important step is drumming into the Mad Scientists that it is HOSPITALISATIONS that should be the key metric not CASES (h/t @theProle FPT).
Do we even need to know the number of daily positive cases anymore? Isn`t this just stoking up fear?
No. Watching the daily positive cases coming down is one of the only things that gives me optimism and hope.
Deaths and hospitalisations are what actually matter.
On topic, I guess this hinges on what your definition of "lockdown" means? Some seem to think it applies for as long as maskwearing, social distancing and a rule of 6 apply.
My definition is it ends when you're told you no longer must "stay at home", and can travel for social, domestic and leisure purposes as well as business ones.
Looking at the Mail definitions in the thread header that looks like either April or May to me, and not as late as July.
Yep.
The mystery of India is continuing to cause head scratching amongst scientists. One theory is that mask wearing is responsible.
There's obviously by now lots of evidence that a good mask prevents a lot of airborne virus transmission as well as the more obvious droplet one.
I mention this because the Gov't could sell this pretty strongly: put up with mask wearing for a while in indoor public venues as the price we pay for ending of almost all other restrictions.
If that was the offer almost everyone in the country would take it. Except Laurence Fox, obvs.
That is an interesting thought. I would love to know what people who have to wear masks nearly all the time think. Did they just get used to them? I do not like wearing them, but it doesn't cause me any issues because I appreciate the benefits of doing so and I am fortunate that I don't have to do it very much. Bars and restaurants are obviously impossible and a packed bar must be a top spreading environment. I can't see it working at a pop concert either.
I've lived in Asia and used to wear one out there. I honestly barely notice I'm wearing it now. It's just like putting on knickers, a blouse or a dress. Well, okay, that's a slight exaggeration but it's not a particularly big deal for me anymore.
I meant to say 'aerosol' transmission in my earlier post rather than merely airborne.
I think we'll get to the point when they're not really necessary but they should probably be the last thing to be dropped. It's a very small price to pay if all other restrictions are lifted.
They're a bugger with hearing aids AND spectacles, though. Even the ones with tapes which go right the head get mixed up with one or the other.
I see your hearing aids and fogged up glasses and raise you maskne (acne and other skin eruptions).
Yes, that must be very uncomfortable and awkward, too.
Note Mike writes, in the second paragraph, that the great vaccine effect makes things "much harder" for Johnson.
The fact that this doesn`t read "much easier" (as it should) is testament to that the default position of "lockdown over liberties" and testament to the government`s default aim of "must avoid criticism" over growing some balls and taking us out of this nightmare as quickly as possible within NHS capacity.
We shouldn`t be constrained for a day longer than is necessary and that is legal.
Just catching up on threads. Firstly, excellent piece by Mike – there have been some brilliant leaders by the Smithsons (Jr and Sr) in recent days. Also enjoyed the linked column by Dr John Lees in the Mail.
I couldn't agree more with @Stocky here – the government needs to grow a pair. The first and most important step is drumming into the Mad Scientists that it is HOSPITALISATIONS that should be the key metric not CASES (h/t @theProle FPT).
Do we even need to know the number of daily positive cases anymore? Isn`t this just stoking up fear?
No. Watching the daily positive cases coming down is one of the only things that gives me optimism and hope.
That implies that you would be upset if positive cases increased while hospitalisations continued to fall. Why not just focus on the hospitalisations?
Comments
https://www.politico.eu/coronavirus-in-europe/
And as for the general point, we are all vaccinated with an approx 90% efficiency. So not zero by any means but pretty ok. And we still have to wear masks? Something's not right.
In Japan, they have vans which warn you of "chemical air pollution" and everyone stays indoors. Which I discovered for the first time when I was out running in Tokyo one time in very deserted streets with all these vans driving around with loudspeakers. Only to be told afterwards what they were saying.
We still have a long way to go until the NHS has some breathing space, can allow staff to take some leave, and start up normal operations that are currently suspended.
And, even once all the JCVI groups are vaccinated, there are enough people outside of those groups to fill the hospitals back up again.
Anyway, it's moot. I don't think anyone seriously (or anyone serious) now denies that they help prevent transmission. So to answer your question it's clearly a case that we don't lift all restrictions in one nuclear moment. It will be a gradual lifting and masks should probably be the final one, or thereabouts.
And yup I've been described as writing like an American.
But the point remains - we (literally) can't live our lives waiting for something to happen in future (new variants, full hospitals, spike in cases, whole new disease, comet approaching the planet).
I think "vaccine passports" for travel only really make sense if we know for sure vaccination hampers transmission. I know there's some evidence for this already but I'm unsure whether it's conclusive.
I think it's going to be an App. IATA and Governments (incl the UK) are far on in development.
The Times carried a good piece yesterday about the confusion in terminology. The travel passport is distinct from the internal one which some of our ministers seem to oppose.
(Sorry Tops)
The tearooms, meanwhile, are apparently incensed. Things are going to get very tricky for the government if there isn't better news on reopening soon.
The notion that we can't reopen on 2020 timescales when the lockdown started in January is absolute nonsense.
And I agree with OGH. Any political benefit the vaccine brings will be squandered if the reopening is too cautious.
The only thing I've really missed are track days. Still booked for Spa for September which could be optimistic.
I trust they will be more balanced than Panel Sadiq.
There is not quite the same sense there was earlier in all this that they appreciated quite what it meant for the country to be bottled up like this. There is not quite the same sense of "I don't want these restrictions in place one second longer than necessary". I do very much get the sense that having ground people into the relentless routine of lockdown and having not seen any major societal pushback on that, that this is more or less carte blanche for them to not feel any real pressure to change that with much speed.
I'm not arguing that lockdown isn't necessary or that it doesn't need to be a bit longer, but I think I'd like them to look as if they were agonising about extending it a bit more as opposed to sort of almost casually stating that it'll be at least another month, maybe longer, whatever. Are the politicians even still voting these extensions through every 3 weeks or whatever the regs say they should be?
Good article:
www.spectator.co.uk/article/ed-davey-is-leading-the-lib-dems-to-extinction
“One area the Lib Dems could have made some ground on was lockdowns and the curbing of personal freedoms that have taken place... At the very least, Davey should have made a point that Covid measures represented the biggest curb on personal freedom in recent British history. He could and should have asked the government to validate the decisions that were made more effectively. That was surely the least we could have asked of Britain’s one supposedly liberal party”.
Obviously the ideal scenario is that come Winter 2021 most of the world is vaccinated (this may be optimistic), no mutant strains evade the vaccine, and we can simply get back to normal.
The devastating consequences of lockdown are starting to become manifest even on a site that has steadfastly and implacably backed them through thick and thin.
I am genuinely very sorry for those who are suffering on here because of the brutal and vicious restrictions imposed upon us by the Johnson regime and those that prop it up.
One way I have found helps is to fund those who are at least trying to fight back. I have donated small amounts to figures who question lockdown and those who promise to ensure these measures imposed on the people of Britain will never be perpetrated again.
As to freedom now and freedom then, we mostly are comparing different sorts of freedom, and Hitchens, like most of us, enjoyed best the time when he had the freedom to be young and have all his future in front of him. Grumpy Old Men confuse the two. There were legal and socially enforced bans on things then, as there are now and always will be.
I have ASD and a history of anxiety and depression. The physical sensation of wearing a mask triggers all my worst sensory issues of feeling trapped.
Added to that I can't get past the logical idea that, if it's not safe to be somewhere without a mask then it's not safe to be there at all. Particularly given the standards of mask-wearing from other people (and my wearing a mask principally protects others from me, rather than vice versa).
If they keep requirements to wear a mask in places after widespread vaccination then I won't go to places.
Edit: and sit on the right of the train as it goes through Berwick.
Yet whenever I am asked I will say I support the lockdown. It makes sense. I don’t want to kill other people or myself. But if someone said to me in the village “come over for a cup of tea” I would be tempted. I smoked quite regularly at Uni but would always describe myself as a non-smoker. Compliance and stated support are different things. I strongly suspect that this one is going to fray at the edges sooner rather than later.
I asked on here where were the LibDems and the idea of liberty and an overbearing state months ago.
Disappointed in Davey so far.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorail_(British_Rail)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9267925/The-Sting-Microscopic-wasps-sent-stately-homes-wipe-moth-infestations.html
Hopefully sufficiently specialised to restrict themselves to one or two species. Hopefully.
But nature tends to show how opportunist it is when the primary food source has been used up. And there are 58 species of Tineidae besides the ones they are targeting.
Hmmm....
1,000 cases a day is apparently the benchmark for any serious restrictions to be lifted. 1,000 cases. That is at the extreme end of the extremists view and is quite clearly set by people who never want to release their grip on Britain.
The notion that nobody wants lockdown to continue for a minute longer than is necessary is being utterly destroyed. These people exist, there are plenty of them and they are powerful.
In Brexit related news British track days are getting very expensive due to demand as it's now a colossal pain in the dick to take a non V5 vehicle (ie track day special) to Europe.
The enemy is here...here...and here...
Hope they are paying attention.
https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1361936477622566913?s=20
http://www.sarahlewisshowjumping.com/blog-1
Maybe don't book until jab + 3 weeks. To be safe.
Jab update: arm feels like it has been kicked by a horse, but nothing else to report back.
Mass protests.
I think we might need to take the view that you need to maximise the spring and summer months in the reasonable probability case you need to lockdown again anyway in the autumn/winter pretty much regardless of anything else that happens.
But I can't bend the rules. I am too worried about bringing the virus home, or of passing it on to someone vulnerable elsewhere.
I am waiting for the vaccination. I am hoping the evidence will show they inhibit transmission.
And so, forever lockdown.
For a six year old that is 25% of their lives.
This lockdown has been the worst and if it hadn't been for our house move I think it would have been a lot worse because I'd have had nothing outside of work to set my mind to. Now that it's done both my wife and I are definitely struggling. We're not people who can simply sit in front of the TV and stay there for hours on end and we have pretty active social lives in normal times.
I really miss just being able to message a mate and head to the pub or brewery bar on a Saturday afternoon. I miss being able to meet my wife at 11pm somewhere in the square mile on Thursday or Friday after work drinks and then head for a late dinner and stay out even later for drinks.
The idea that some NHS bod thinks that we need to keep social distancing indefinitely is completely depressing. I'm grateful that MPs like Steve Baker exist to ensure that boot of normal life is kept on the PM's neck and rule by scientist isn't really on the cards.
I couldn't agree more with @Stocky here – the government needs to grow a pair. The first and most important step is drumming into the Mad Scientists that it is HOSPITALISATIONS that should be the key metric not CASES (h/t @theProle FPT).
And even that is forgoing the fact that a lot of the stuff you *could* technically do during the summer a lot of folk didn't do because it wasn't worth the hassle or was still against general guidance or whatever.
These countries and states are driving a coach and horses through the post hoc ergo propter hoc argument of the lockdown fanatics.
The government's economic suspended animation is going to catch up with it.
Biden says China to face repercussions on human rights
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2AH0AC
Biden Builds Out China Team With Staff Who Reflect Tougher Tone
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-16/biden-builds-out-china-team-with-staff-who-reflect-tougher-tone
Email your own MP. Email your councillors.
Cut some mouthy anti-lockdown sceptic organisation a small cheque.
You will feel better. Trust me.