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A Butcher’s Bill for EU – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4 said:

    Apparently 74 out of 135 seats for the 3 separtist parties in Catalonia, albeit turnout well down on last time it seems.

    So a separatist majority in Catalonia?

    That's interesting.

    No doubt the Essix Massiv will still assure us that Catalonia is secure in Spain.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    kle4 said:

    Apparently 74 out of 135 seats for the 3 separtist parties in Catalonia, albeit turnout well down on last time it seems.

    So a separatist majority in Catalonia?

    That's interesting.

    No doubt the Essix Massiv will still assure us that Catalonia is secure in Spain.
    Well, they together had at least 72 seats when they held their unilateral declaration a few years back, so not sure how the issue really moves forward, one way or another.
  • So separatists have gained 2 seats from then?

    But the Essix Massive received wisdom is that the Spanish Jackboots beat the desire for separation out of Catalonia and now support for separatists was falling away.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    I see the largest party in Catalunya was led by Spain's Health Minister responsible for their Covid response.
    Every government in the world, of whatever hue or policy, is getting a pass on this.
    Except Donald. He's special.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190



    Not really. I think I have developed angina since yesterday (genuinely! the same symptoms as my late father, tight chest, short of breath, pain in the right arm). It could well be divine intervention, so I'll just go back to being a woolly liberal, make a doctors appointment, and hope for the best.

    Sorry to hear about the health issues - an early GP appointment sounds a good idea. Look after yourself, whatever party you currently fancy!
    For the record I was never a Tory. The Jezziah seemed to think I was yesterday. Don't worry I will seek advice, hopefully just indigestion...or it could have been a sign from above!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,926
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:
    Leaving aside the innocent until proven guilty part, some councillors is pretty weaksauce, there are thousands of the buggers some are bound to have committed crimes. And was Hatton even in Labour?
    I believe Corbyn let him back in.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358

    kjh said:

    In line with my widely-projected forecast of 'Tier 1' pubs 1 May ie open inside and out, open for 'rule of 6' or two households, mandatory track and trace, table service and masks in the loo. No substantial meal or curfew.

    Well done to Boris for meeting the 15m vaccine target. Britain leading the world once again. Let's set a new target of all post 50/health conditions by 14 March.

    Good job Starmer isn't leading it.
    I'm no fan of KS but I fail to see why the vaccine roll out would be any different. The credit goes to the MHRA and NHS.
    Because Starmer would have sat on it, filled it with bureaucracy and will not have shown great world leading leadership like Boris/Hancock in ordering vaccines and then implementing it, subject of course to MHRA.
    By default, and by what the late artist Bob Ross would call a "happy accident" you are probably correct.

    Johnson was so devoid of any ideas for the management of Covid early in the pandemic, that without the benefit of a form book, he blindly bet the house on a vaccine. He won! The winner takes it all.
    Hope you are enjoying being a Conservative now :lol: l
    Not really. I think I have developed angina since yesterday (genuinely! the same symptoms as my late father, tight chest, short of breath, pain in the right arm). It could well be divine intervention, so I'll just go back to being a woolly liberal, make a doctors appointment, and hope for the best.
    Eating your first baby can have side effects....

    (Seriously, hope it gets sorted pronto, whatever it is....)
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,048
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:
    Leaving aside the innocent until proven guilty part, some councillors is pretty weaksauce, there are thousands of the buggers some are bound to have committed crimes. And was Hatton even in Labour?
    I believe Corbyn let him back in.
    From Wikipedia: "Hatton applied to rejoin Labour in September 2018. The application was approved in February 2019. He was suspended from the party on 20 February, just days after he was re-admitted, after an allegedly anti-Semitic tweet from 2012 came to light."
  • Pagan2 said:

    Just to clarify I represent the social liberal wing of this site 👍

    Do you agree with gay marriage?
    Am personally in favor of gay marriage PROVIDED it is not compulsory

    Especially for yours truly . . . pity the poor gay person forced to marry me!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    "Britain has reduced its carbon emissions more than any rich country

    But greening the power grid was the easy bit. Heating and transport will be harder"

    https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/02/14/britain-has-reduced-its-carbon-emissions-more-than-any-rich-country
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,926



    Not really. I think I have developed angina since yesterday (genuinely! the same symptoms as my late father, tight chest, short of breath, pain in the right arm). It could well be divine intervention, so I'll just go back to being a woolly liberal, make a doctors appointment, and hope for the best.

    Sorry to hear about the health issues - an early GP appointment sounds a good idea. Look after yourself, whatever party you currently fancy!
    For the record I was never a Tory. The Jezziah seemed to think I was yesterday. Don't worry I will seek advice, hopefully just indigestion...or it could have been a sign from above!
    Did you support Tony Blair, Ed Milliband or Kier Starmer? Did you ever make an critical comment about Jeremy Corbyn?

    If the answer to any of the above is "yes", then you're a Tory.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    "England in India: 'You may as well play on a beach - Chennai pitch not good enough for Test cricket’

    By Jonathan Agnew"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/56061842
  • Andy_JS said:

    "England in India: 'You may as well play on a beach - Chennai pitch not good enough for Test cricket’

    By Jonathan Agnew"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/56061842

    Indian Commentators take....its a wonderful pitch, superb, ideal, that has enabled an incredibly exciting match.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    One of the strangest run outs ever.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Andy_JS said:

    One of the strangest run outs ever.

    The biggest surprise was that the umpires gave him out.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    Foakes with another stumping.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    This is a good morning for England!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    England have come in from 40/1 to 17/1 with Betfair.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Andy_JS said:

    England have come in from 40/1 to 17/1 with Betfair.

    They should be at least 100/1. They’re 300 runs behind, on a pitch where 100 looks like a good score.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    On the decline of the West, part 683:

    Recently, Chinese cinemas grossed nearly $300m in total takings in one weekend, while US cinemas took peanuts. It is thought American box office receipts will never again match China’s. China is the dominant market now.

    More importantly, Chinese movies, having hugely improved (by copying the West) now crowd out American movies. The top ten movies in China today are all Chinese-made.

    The implications of this are enormous. Hollywood was a huge factor in projecting US soft power. It is diminishing fast.

    https://www.ft.com/content/573340cb-30b9-421e-8fec-51c8348a6bbb

    But the rest of the world speaks English better than Mandarin.

    How much are Chinese films being exported to the rest of the world like Hollywood films are?
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent thread piece, Matt. Why you never done one before?

    I agree with the main thrust of your argument. You shouldn't draw too many conclusions from the bare figures, especially as we don't know where it all ends yet. I do however think it is reasonable to pause over the current results and reflect that the UK's vaccination roll-out probably would almost certainly have gone less well had the country still been part of the EU.

    This gives unreconstructed Europhiles like myself food for thought. My habit has been to mock Leavers over the absence of palpable benefits of leaving the EU. Now we appear to have a very tangible one.

    Of course nobody could have foreseen this, but it would be dishonest of Remainers to deny these very real consequences. If it can be reasonably argued that they derive from the very nature of the EU, and therefore further benefits of leaving the EU are likely to accrue in due course, there will be a lot of humble pie to be eaten, not least on this site.

    I might even have some myself.

    That’s a fair argument, but it also need to incorporate the counter-factual of what the response might have been had the perpetually awkward and non communitaire UK remained part of the EU.
    I cannot see that we’d happily have acquiesced to the current EU scheme - and it’s quite conceivable we’d still have gone our own way.

    We might even have persuaded the EU to have been more proactive.
    Don’t forget Cameron would still be Pm. He would have gone along with the EU because he was too lazy to do anything else.
    Sure.
    So much lazier than Boris, too.
    Boris had to make a success of it because the EU scheme wasn’t a politically realistic option
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent thread piece, Matt. Why you never done one before?

    I agree with the main thrust of your argument. You shouldn't draw too many conclusions from the bare figures, especially as we don't know where it all ends yet. I do however think it is reasonable to pause over the current results and reflect that the UK's vaccination roll-out probably would almost certainly have gone less well had the country still been part of the EU.

    This gives unreconstructed Europhiles like myself food for thought. My habit has been to mock Leavers over the absence of palpable benefits of leaving the EU. Now we appear to have a very tangible one.

    Of course nobody could have foreseen this, but it would be dishonest of Remainers to deny these very real consequences. If it can be reasonably argued that they derive from the very nature of the EU, and therefore further benefits of leaving the EU are likely to accrue in due course, there will be a lot of humble pie to be eaten, not least on this site.

    I might even have some myself.

    That’s a fair argument, but it also need to incorporate the counter-factual of what the response might have been had the perpetually awkward and non communitaire UK remained part of the EU.
    I cannot see that we’d happily have acquiesced to the current EU scheme - and it’s quite conceivable we’d still have gone our own way.

    We might even have persuaded the EU to have been more proactive.
    I agree with all of this. The takeaway for me, as I said yesterday, is that the EU is fantastic at running an extremely effective free trade area. It’s trying to be a federal government in waiting though and is pants at that. It was less the vaccine cock up, any individual government could screw that up, as the Hungary situation. Orban is a dictator, Hungary is at best a semi-democracy, and the EU can/will do nothing while Poland is still there to veto any Art 7 proceedings. And visa versa. So it is an extremely less effective guarantor of democratic values on the Continent than I believed it to have been.
    Interesting point, this. The EU as bulwark against political extremism is certainly in my locker as one of its many positives. And, yes, this argument falls if member states can be extreme and face no sanctions.
    Hang on you voted pro corbyn in 2019 but you liked the fact that the eu was a bulwark against extremism.....does not compute. A lot of the 2019 manifesto would have had the eu saying no can't do that like we are going to take 10 percent of companies over 250 employees
    Yes that's right. A conflict for me there.
    At least honest enough to admit it, most seem to say "but it would be allowed"
    I love the EU and socialism. Which one the most I can't decide. Right now it's probably socialism.
    Well you cant have both the eu isnt socialist
    I'd take either right now!
This discussion has been closed.