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BREXIT. Undoing (some of) the damage. Part 2: From Principles to Policies – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    Scott_xP said:
    She so reminds me of Terry Farrell/Jadzia Dax in that picture.
  • Options
    MrEd said:

    Have we discussed Gina Carano today?

    Haven't seen any comments but do you want to kick off the debate?
    Chat shit, get banged.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,617
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    AlistairM said:

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1359866906707173377
    England more than 30K behind last week. Scotland up 18K.

    Over 440k without any from NI.

    Easily smashing the Required Run Rate now which should start collapsing every day from now on.
    What was the RRR today?

    I think from memory yesterdays RRR was 385k so this should knock it down to circa 370-360k.
    So about 1.5m to go.
    I think they are well into the 65 - 69 age group. Every single one I know (with the exception of me - damn it) has been done or has an appointment and this is the biggest age range of the people I know.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Mortimer said:

    Vaccine anecdote, Dorset: Ma and Pa, both in late 60s, just been given their appointments!

    Mine, also in their late 60s, have just had theirs this afternoon.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502

    Under normal circumstances, US tech giant Nvidia’s takeover of British chip designer Arm for US$40 billion (£29 billion) would have sailed through without registering beyond the computing industry. Instead, it has made international headlines, with UK and EU monopolies regulators launching an in-depth investigation after outcry from competitors.

    In effect, the deal is pretty much dead before it starts.

    https://theconversation.com/amp/nvidias-us-40-billion-deal-to-buy-arm-is-all-but-dead-its-a-classic-example-of-geopolitics-killing-innovation-154999

    That is a very confused article.
    And btw, Nvidia doesn't do any manufacturing, either.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,475


    Amazing picture. You can actually see Scotland splitting away from England.

    Originally Scotland was part of what is now North America (Laurentia) and is from a different continent to England.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapetus_Suture

    Laurentian exceptionalism might explain much....
    Actually only the very top north west part in a line from Torridon up to Durness was part of the Laurentian plate. Other bits including some of the Great Glen come from as far afield as northern Russia.

    Out of interest my tutor at Cardiff was Rod Gayer who was the man who identified and defined the Iapetus suture and ocean back in 1969.
    The Northern version of Thanet :smile: .
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Scott_xP said:
    It lasted hours, a significant improvement. There are always teething problems with these systems, but they usually get ironed out pretty quickly.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    AlistairM said:

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1359866906707173377
    England more than 30K behind last week. Scotland up 18K.

    Over 440k without any from NI.

    Easily smashing the Required Run Rate now which should start collapsing every day from now on.
    What was the RRR today?

    I think from memory yesterdays RRR was 385k so this should knock it down to circa 370-360k.
    So about 1.5m to go.
    The actual target is 14.6m first doses, not sure why so many people have latched on to 15m based on a presentation using rounded figures.
  • Options
    When you factor in the power of Baby Yoda in terms of marketing, merchandise, and underpinning Disney+ I'm surprised Gina Carano wasn't sacked earlier.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Scott_xP said:

    kinabalu said:

    My sense is that some of our more cerebral Leavers (plus Philip) are casting round for a Brexit rationale that is more elevated than simple antipathy to the EU and dislike of free movement. Which is fair enough actually. I'd probably be doing the same.

    A bit like Republican Senators at Trump's impeachment trial.

    They can't realistically defend what happened, or the manner in which it happened, so they complain about process and terminology.

    Unable to defend the current reality of Brexit, they still talk of what might happen in some imagined Panglossian future
    Not to get diverted onto Trump but actually they can - they can point to statements from people like Kamala Harris which could be similarly interpreted as a call to violence and ask why isn't it being treated in the same way. Which is one of their main counter-arguments.

    But nobody wants to listen to that because it's the usual "all Republicans bad, all Democrats good" tone that dominates this site.

    Same way, everyone who was wetting their pants over Trump asking the DA of SDNY to resign and crying out it was an abuse of power yet barely raising a peep over the fact Biden has asked nearly all Trump-appointed DAs to step down.

    Republicans bad, Democrats good.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited February 2021

    Scott_xP said:
    She so reminds me of Terry Farrell/Jadzia Dax in that picture.
    I thought she looks a lot like Mariska Hargitay.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    By the 8th of March, we're more or less on course for a national infection rate of 30 odd cases per 100k, which given the loosely discussed threshold for staying in tier 1 used to be 100 cases per 100k gives a decent idea of how incredibly cautious the government is being.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I can confirm one disappointing side effect to getting your first jab.

    Impatience.

    Impatience to get your second jab and return to normality,

    Almost misread that imp*t**nce word for a minute there.
    Don't worry Pfizer also have a solution to that as well.
    It's a problem that is easily handled
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,915
    @Philip_Thompson I got a notification that you mentioned me regarding Net Satisfaction vs Positives in Leader Ratings, and one of the reasons given as to why NS is better was the 2015 GE result.

    Here are Cameron, Miliband & Clegg's Positives and NS for that parliament... I cant really see why one would be more useful than the other on this occasion to be honest.


  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,883

    When you factor in the power of Baby Yoda in terms of marketing, merchandise, and underpinning Disney+ I'm surprised Gina Carano wasn't sacked earlier.

    Read the article. She kinda was...
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited February 2021

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    So we can ignore the SAGE 'doomsters', who think the whole thing should go on for ever, even though they hate having us in lockdown?

    Good to know.
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    edited February 2021
    The week begining the 15th March will be when capacity needs to be ramped up by, as this is 10 weeks on from Jan 4th when the first dose numbers started climbing after the Xmas break. The majority of those I know with 2nd vaccine appointments have them booked in for 10 weeks after their first dose, so I'll assume thats pretty commonplace. The next month should give us a big chance to focus entirely on first doses for groups 5-9.

    There are 14m people in groups 5 -9. No reason why (if the supply is there) they can't all get their first doses before the 15th March - 500k a day is certainly something to aim for.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Leon said:

    Have to confess, the overnight loss of all EU share trading to Amsterdam, is the first bit of Project Fear which has:

    1 Come true

    AND

    2 Given me the fear

    One kinda knew it was coming, but the speed and scale still shocks. It might even make me regret my vote, if only the EU had not behaved with such flailing, malignant incompetence, in recent weeks.

    But, if the City does collapse (quick or slow), we are in deep shit. Massively in debt just as our tax base disappears. Not good. Not good at all.

    My business is entirely unaffected by Brexit and is going from strength to strength
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    edited February 2021
    I think that that person's grandmother would be justified to tell her to fuck off. However, this is in effect discriminating against someone for their views. Sure it was absurd hyperbole but "abhorrent"? Not sure.

    Is she a Holocaust scholar? Unlikely.

    Not 100% sure I agree with the decision.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,475
    edited February 2021
    Scott_xP said:
    This is the problematic quote afaics:

    Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors … even by children,” the report said quoting the post.

    “Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views.”

  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940
    maaarsh said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    By the 8th of March, we're more or less on course for a national infection rate of 30 odd cases per 100k, which given the loosely discussed threshold for staying in tier 1 used to be 100 cases per 100k gives a decent idea of how incredibly cautious the government is being.
    Absolutely. My view is that the government has been banned from giving any positive messages because it knows it's crunching cases down so quickly and doesn't want any leakage.

    Trouble is, Joe Public will soon wise up when they spot in a few weeks that deaths per day are in the low hundreds...
  • Options
    isam said:

    @Philip_Thompson I got a notification that you mentioned me regarding Net Satisfaction vs Positives in Leader Ratings, and one of the reasons given as to why NS is better was the 2015 GE result.

    Here are Cameron, Miliband & Clegg's Positives and NS for that parliament... I cant really see why one would be more useful than the other on this occasion to be honest.


    Hi sam,

    I quoted you as being the one from memory who found OGH's 2011 article saying that it was positives rather than net figures that were the most important.

    TSE tried to explain that the 2015 election changes that but like you I see no justification for that in those figures. The leadership ratings worked well to predict the election results as opposed to poll ratings but like OGH wrote in 2011, the approval figures worked well to do so.

    Now though all of a sudden only net figures matter. I wonder why?
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    When you factor in the power of Baby Yoda in terms of marketing, merchandise, and underpinning Disney+ I'm surprised Gina Carano wasn't sacked earlier.

    Read the article. She kinda was...
    Well I'm surprised the announcement didn't come earlier.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,182
    edited February 2021

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FF43 said:

    The really interesting takeaway from Richard's suggestions is that not a single Leaver on here, that I have seen, wants to have any further dealings with the EU. At all.

    Edit. Apologies, @bigjohnowls, just saw your comment.

    A Pacific future awaits our Sceptered Isle. This seems to be the vision and I'd love to be able to share it. I have no great emotional attachment to our current bleak loco in the North Atlantic. Dreaming of far-flung places can warm the cockles, especially on such a winter's day, but I fear it is dreaming. My sense is that some of our more cerebral Leavers (plus Philip) are casting round for a Brexit rationale that is more elevated than simple antipathy to the EU and dislike of free movement. Which is fair enough actually. I'd probably be doing the same.
    Another one who can only respond on here by just making stuff up. I can only assume you have run out of crayons again today.
    Not in the mood for slumming today. Serious posts only.
    You gave up on serious posts long ago. Rather sad really. You have turned into a third rate Scott without the links.
    Oh come on, Richard. I'm simply pointing out that the notion of Brexit opening up a Pacific future for the UK smacks of pipedream. This involves no invention or bad faith projecting. You happen to agree with me. I know you do. EFTA and all that. You are not a Brexit nostalgic. And as I say, it's with great reluctance that I do this. It's duty not desire. I'm a "fancy another?" sort of bloke, naturally, not a "Hmm, it's getting late" party pooper.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940
    maaarsh said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    AlistairM said:

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1359866906707173377
    England more than 30K behind last week. Scotland up 18K.

    Over 440k without any from NI.

    Easily smashing the Required Run Rate now which should start collapsing every day from now on.
    What was the RRR today?

    I think from memory yesterdays RRR was 385k so this should knock it down to circa 370-360k.
    So about 1.5m to go.
    The actual target is 14.6m first doses, not sure why so many people have latched on to 15m based on a presentation using rounded figures.
    Because the government itself chose to use that figure in its own document.

    You are quite correct that if you add up the cohorts, they total 14.6m. Yet the NHS itself chose the 15 million figure and therefore that is the target.

    This is all academic anyway, as they'll beat the 15 million now. Today's return will be well ahead of the RRR.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,370
    edited February 2021
    TOPPING said:

    I think that that person's grandmother would be justified to tell her to fuck off. However, this is in effect discriminating against someone for their views. Sure it was absurd hyperbole but "abhorrent"? Not sure.

    Is she a Holocaust scholar? Unlikely.

    Not 100% sure I agree with the decision.
    It was a cumulative thing.

    As a first offence I don't consider it a sacking offence but taken as global cumulative loading then I understand the decision.

    Disney have to protect their product.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,330
    Nigelb said:

    Under normal circumstances, US tech giant Nvidia’s takeover of British chip designer Arm for US$40 billion (£29 billion) would have sailed through without registering beyond the computing industry. Instead, it has made international headlines, with UK and EU monopolies regulators launching an in-depth investigation after outcry from competitors.

    In effect, the deal is pretty much dead before it starts.

    https://theconversation.com/amp/nvidias-us-40-billion-deal-to-buy-arm-is-all-but-dead-its-a-classic-example-of-geopolitics-killing-innovation-154999

    That is a very confused article.
    And btw, Nvidia doesn't do any manufacturing, either.
    Given ARM technology is central to a lot of what is going on across the computer (and phone) industry, it is entirely unsurprising that regulators are taking a big interest.

    Nvidia has form for being er... innovative with use of IP to hobble its competitors.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    maaarsh said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    By the 8th of March, we're more or less on course for a national infection rate of 30 odd cases per 100k, which given the loosely discussed threshold for staying in tier 1 used to be 100 cases per 100k gives a decent idea of how incredibly cautious the government is being.
    No you don;t understand Maarsh.

    The government is desperate to get us out of lockdown. Desperate. Most people on here don't think they want it a minute longer than needed.

    People such as Matt Hancock cannot abide having unbridled power given to them by unquestioning MPs.

    SAGE members DESPISE turning Britain into their own private experimental laboratory with no accountability whatsoever.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    Scott_xP said:
    Comparing the treatment of Jews by the Nazis to the treatment of Republicans in the USA is pretty bloody vile.

    In fact, sacking is not enough. She should be marched into a wintry forest, forced to dig her own grave, then shot in the back of the head with a Luger.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    TOPPING said:

    I think that that person's grandmother would be justified to tell her to fuck off. However, this is in effect discriminating against someone for their views. Sure it was absurd hyperbole but "abhorrent"? Not sure.

    Is she a Holocaust scholar? Unlikely.

    Not 100% sure I agree with the decision.
    It was a cumulative thing.

    As a first offence I don't consider it a sacking offence but taken as global cumulative loading then I understand the decision.

    Disney have to product their product.
    They certainly do that. ;)
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502

    MrEd said:

    Have we discussed Gina Carano today?

    Haven't seen any comments but do you want to kick off the debate?
    Chat shit, get banged.
    That a comment, or a hobby ?
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited February 2021

    MrEd said:

    Have we discussed Gina Carano today?

    Haven't seen any comments but do you want to kick off the debate?
    Chat shit, get banged.
    Or perhaps 'how to prove a person claiming that holding the wrong political opinions gets you persecuted right by, er, persecuting her for holding the wrong political opinions'.

    Her analogy is hyperbolic and not very sensitive, for obvious reasons, but destroying her career and cancelling her is a gross overreaction when a clear apology would have sufficed. I don't see people who quote Pastor Niemöller's famous lines in less serious contexts than those to which they originally referred being flushed down the memory hole as a consequence.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Have we discussed Gina Carano today?

    Haven't seen any comments but do you want to kick off the debate?
    Chat shit, get banged.
    That a comment, or a hobby ?
    For some, a career. I can give you her number
  • Options

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    So we can ignore the SAGE 'doomsters', who think the whole thing should go on for ever, even though they hate having us in lockdown?

    Good to know.
    What SAGE doomsters saying lockdown will go on forever?

    That's a figment of your imagination as far as I can tell. Boris was reluctant to lockdown in September/October/November/December and will be eager to put lockdowns behind us never to be seen again as soon as possible.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    So we can ignore the SAGE 'doomsters', who think the whole thing should go on for ever, even though they hate having us in lockdown?

    Good to know.
    Where I agree with you is that Professor John Edmunds should be vanquished from civic life. He is the academic lovechild of Leon and Black Rook – will explore the finest negative in any scenario in a bid for airtime.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:
    This is the problematic quote afaics:

    Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors … even by children,” the report said quoting the post.

    “Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views.”

    IMV hating someone is hating someone. It doesn't really matter why.

    But on the left it is totemic that motive matters more than action. (cf the higher sentences for racist/sexuality motivated crimes in the UK vs generic crimes)
  • Options
    MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    Charles said:


    Given that we were unable to influence the EU to be as strong as I wanted, at least the UK can independently take a firm position on Chinese (and other) human rights abuses

    Really?

    For all that the Germans (undeniably) undermined the line on Russia, just as the UK did on Saudi (rather skipped over in your earlier comment), at least by committing to solidarity and transparency in a rules-based organisation with similarly minded countries, we had a chance of incremental improvements, plus a clear commitment to holding the line in the Baltics.

    Now? The Nordic countries (our natural allies) think we're utterly batshit.

    And the UK's independent firm position? Cobblers. We'll open our legs for anybody's money, as long as it's laundered enough.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Have we discussed Gina Carano today?

    Haven't seen any comments but do you want to kick off the debate?
    Chat shit, get banged.
    That a comment, or a hobby ?
    https://www.joe.co.uk/news/jamie-vardy-is-trying-to-get-his-chat-shit-get-banged-motto-trademarked-89564
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282

    TOPPING said:

    I think that that person's grandmother would be justified to tell her to fuck off. However, this is in effect discriminating against someone for their views. Sure it was absurd hyperbole but "abhorrent"? Not sure.

    Is she a Holocaust scholar? Unlikely.

    Not 100% sure I agree with the decision.
    It was a cumulative thing.

    As a first offence I don't consider it a sacking offence but taken as global cumulative loading then I understand the decision.

    Disney have to protect their product.
    Yes that is fair enough - Disney realised it was a threat to the brand and hence acted. That's their prerogative. Plus I realise it has been building. But reading that quote on this particular occasion about getting people to hate their neighbours, I thought that was rather good.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Speaking of listings, what I'd really like to see is rules loosened a bit so that startups aren't drawn to the US so easily. Our premium listing rules definitely need to be looked at again so that London gets its share of startup listings. Currently the UK accounts for a huge proportion of tech and fintech startups but hardly any of them choose London as their primary listing, most of them go to the US. That's something we need to urgently address. UK investors are missing out on a huge part of the UK economy because of this.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    maaarsh said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    By the 8th of March, we're more or less on course for a national infection rate of 30 odd cases per 100k, which given the loosely discussed threshold for staying in tier 1 used to be 100 cases per 100k gives a decent idea of how incredibly cautious the government is being.
    Absolutely. My view is that the government has been banned from giving any positive messages because it knows it's crunching cases down so quickly and doesn't want any leakage.

    Trouble is, Joe Public will soon wise up when they spot in a few weeks that deaths per day are in the low hundreds...
    The government is playing with fire letting these non-entities go on telly saying "Rule of 6 All Year, masks and social distancing forever, big weddings and horse races never to return etc..."

    I read that 1/5 adults has admitted to suicidal thoughts through all this. I bet the real number is much higher.

    Whatever anyone here says, the goalposts are continually shifting. This was originally supposed to be about stopping the NHS getting "overwhelmed" by flattening the curve. Squashing the Sombrero the PM called it. We've now moved to the point where cases at any level are a nemesis to be vanquished, even if those cases will not lead to hospitals being overwhelmed or extraordinary levels of excess death due to solid but imperfect immune responses from vaccines.

    Until a political decision is made that life goes on and we accept cases, admissions and deaths softened by booster jabs, this will never end. If you think there won't be a clamour for some sort of new lockdown in this country next winter even after 3 vaccines per vulnerable person, you are being naive.
  • Options
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:
    This is the problematic quote afaics:

    Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors … even by children,” the report said quoting the post.

    “Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views.”

    If that's what was said then I see nothing wrong with that.

    The whole 'first they came for the Jews' idea is something we were brought up talking about not an original idea, nor should it ever be forgotten or made a parallel we can't talk about to be frank. Absolutely hating people for their views is not a healthy position to be in.

    If that's all she said its a gross overreaction. I doubt it is though.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
  • Options

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    So we can ignore the SAGE 'doomsters', who think the whole thing should go on for ever, even though they hate having us in lockdown?

    Good to know.
    What SAGE doomsters saying lockdown will go on forever?

    That's a figment of your imagination as far as I can tell. Boris was reluctant to lockdown in September/October/November/December and will be eager to put lockdowns behind us never to be seen again as soon as possible.
    but the 8th of March is a Monday?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502

    Nigelb said:

    Under normal circumstances, US tech giant Nvidia’s takeover of British chip designer Arm for US$40 billion (£29 billion) would have sailed through without registering beyond the computing industry. Instead, it has made international headlines, with UK and EU monopolies regulators launching an in-depth investigation after outcry from competitors.

    In effect, the deal is pretty much dead before it starts.

    https://theconversation.com/amp/nvidias-us-40-billion-deal-to-buy-arm-is-all-but-dead-its-a-classic-example-of-geopolitics-killing-innovation-154999

    That is a very confused article.
    And btw, Nvidia doesn't do any manufacturing, either.
    Given ARM technology is central to a lot of what is going on across the computer (and phone) industry, it is entirely unsurprising that regulators are taking a big interest.

    Nvidia has form for being er... innovative with use of IP to hobble its competitors.
    And the notion that preventing the takeover of an IP company by a proprietary IP company is 'hobbling competition' is mildly curious.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Have we discussed Gina Carano today?

    Haven't seen any comments but do you want to kick off the debate?
    Chat shit, get banged.
    That a comment, or a hobby ?
    For some, a career. I can give you her number
    I somehow thought of you before you posted. Weird coincidence.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,709
    edited February 2021
    kinabalu said:

    FF43 said:

    The really interesting takeaway from Richard's suggestions is that not a single Leaver on here, that I have seen, wants to have any further dealings with the EU. At all.

    Edit. Apologies, @bigjohnowls, just saw your comment.

    A Pacific future awaits our Sceptered Isle. This seems to be the vision and I'd love to be able to share it. I have no great emotional attachment to our current bleak loco in the North Atlantic. Dreaming of far-flung places can warm the cockles, especially on such a winter's day, but I fear it is dreaming. My sense is that some of our more cerebral Leavers (plus Philip) are casting round for a Brexit rationale that is more elevated than simple antipathy to the EU and dislike of free movement. Which is fair enough actually. I'd probably be doing the same.
    I am curious to know how this pivot to Asia pans out. Especially if we are avoiding China at the same time. Traditionally the Japanese have been the big Asian investors in the UK, but they have been reducing their presence here, in part because of Brexit.

    I don't have a problem with it - I have close ties with that part of the world. I don't see the path through. China I think would be interested in a European base that the UK is in a good position to provide, but they are non-grata right now. And even that depends on the UK getting its shit together with the EU.

    Should add India also has potential but they are not in CPTPP.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    MaxPB said:

    Speaking of listings, what I'd really like to see is rules loosened a bit so that startups aren't drawn to the US so easily. Our premium listing rules definitely need to be looked at again so that London gets its share of startup listings. Currently the UK accounts for a huge proportion of tech and fintech startups but hardly any of them choose London as their primary listing, most of them go to the US. That's something we need to urgently address. UK investors are missing out on a huge part of the UK economy because of this.

    That article I linked, from The Trade, mentions that. I agree. We will see how flexible they are, or want to show the govt. they are.
  • Options

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    So we can ignore the SAGE 'doomsters', who think the whole thing should go on for ever, even though they hate having us in lockdown?

    Good to know.
    What SAGE doomsters saying lockdown will go on forever?

    That's a figment of your imagination as far as I can tell. Boris was reluctant to lockdown in September/October/November/December and will be eager to put lockdowns behind us never to be seen again as soon as possible.
    but the 8th of March is a Monday?
    Oh damn, I scrolled and was looking at April. 🤦🏻‍♂️
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    So we can ignore the SAGE 'doomsters', who think the whole thing should go on for ever, even though they hate having us in lockdown?

    Good to know.
    It`s become clear to me a long time ago that "locking down to protect the NHS from collapsing" is not true. It`s simply not accepted by SAGE, it seems to me. I`m praying that 22 Feb is the day that the roadmap out of this, via specific markers, is laid down so we can keep the government to it.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,393
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/10/germany-offered-1bn-us-dropped-sanctions-against-controversial/

    Unbelievable. How can we even think about having more than just a simple trading agreement with the EU.

    I don't really understand why the Germans and Russians should not build this pipeline. The argument seems to be that it makes continental Europe 'dependent' on Russian gas. How does having a pipeline to get something cheaper remove the competing alternative suppliers? If Putin does 'switch the pipeline off' to blackmail the West, how does that actually work as blackmail when all the other suppliers are still there?
    It allows Russia to bypass Eastern Europe and continue supplying gas to Western Europe. As it stands the only way to cut off Eastern Europe from gas also results in cutting off extremely profitable Western European markets simultaneously.

    Essentially Germany is handing Russia a huge stick to bear Eastern Europe with should they decide they don't like Russian interference in their nations.

    But it benefits German companies and allows Siemens to build cheaper dishwashers, so it's worth it from the German perspective.
    Then the right way forward would appear to be to build alternative supply lines to those countries, rather than preventing Russia and Germany from pursuing what is on the face of it a legitimate commercial initiative. I know exactly what I would think as a British consumer if another country wanted to stop me getting cheaper power from another country - so I don't see why the Germans should feel any different.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    MaxPB said:

    Speaking of listings, what I'd really like to see is rules loosened a bit so that startups aren't drawn to the US so easily. Our premium listing rules definitely need to be looked at again so that London gets its share of startup listings. Currently the UK accounts for a huge proportion of tech and fintech startups but hardly any of them choose London as their primary listing, most of them go to the US. That's something we need to urgently address. UK investors are missing out on a huge part of the UK economy because of this.

    Yes, London needs to fight back fast. Freed of EU regulations there ARE opportunities (as well as big risks). The only choice is to be a nimbler competitor.

    The EU will always move more slowly. It is the supertanker, we are the speedboat, as Ursula has helpfully informed us. We must exploit this.
  • Options
    Stocky said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    So we can ignore the SAGE 'doomsters', who think the whole thing should go on for ever, even though they hate having us in lockdown?

    Good to know.
    It`s become clear to me a long time ago that "locking down to protect the NHS from collapsing" is not true. It`s simply not accepted by SAGE, it seems to me. I`m praying that 22 Feb is the day that the roadmap out of this, via specific markers, is laid down so we can keep the government to it.
    It seems to me every time we locked down it was to protect the NHS from collapsing, but the ending of lockdown wasn't when that initial goal was achieved but rather after driving the virus back down further.

    Given the pain of going into lockdown there's a certain brutal logic to that. Taking 2 weeks more of lockdown to then get into a cleaner, freer more liberal release is logical. Its like fighting a fire, you don't contain the blaze then walk away thinking "its only mildly burning now", you try and put it out.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    FF43 said:

    kinabalu said:

    FF43 said:

    The really interesting takeaway from Richard's suggestions is that not a single Leaver on here, that I have seen, wants to have any further dealings with the EU. At all.

    Edit. Apologies, @bigjohnowls, just saw your comment.

    A Pacific future awaits our Sceptered Isle. This seems to be the vision and I'd love to be able to share it. I have no great emotional attachment to our current bleak loco in the North Atlantic. Dreaming of far-flung places can warm the cockles, especially on such a winter's day, but I fear it is dreaming. My sense is that some of our more cerebral Leavers (plus Philip) are casting round for a Brexit rationale that is more elevated than simple antipathy to the EU and dislike of free movement. Which is fair enough actually. I'd probably be doing the same.
    I am curious to know how this pivot to Asia pans out. Especially if we are avoiding China at the same time. Traditionally the Japanese have been the big Asian investors in the UK, but they have been reducing their presence here, in part because of Brexit.

    I don't have a problem with it - I have close ties with that part of the world. I don't see the path through. China I think would be interested in a European base that the UK is in a good position to provide, but they are non-grata right now. And even that depends on the UK getting its shit together with the EU.
    Conference calls will be a bastard. Brexiters looking forward to all those 3am Zoom meetings.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    moonshine said:

    maaarsh said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    By the 8th of March, we're more or less on course for a national infection rate of 30 odd cases per 100k, which given the loosely discussed threshold for staying in tier 1 used to be 100 cases per 100k gives a decent idea of how incredibly cautious the government is being.
    Absolutely. My view is that the government has been banned from giving any positive messages because it knows it's crunching cases down so quickly and doesn't want any leakage.

    Trouble is, Joe Public will soon wise up when they spot in a few weeks that deaths per day are in the low hundreds...
    The government is playing with fire letting these non-entities go on telly saying "Rule of 6 All Year, masks and social distancing forever, big weddings and horse races never to return etc..."

    I read that 1/5 adults has admitted to suicidal thoughts through all this. I bet the real number is much higher.

    Whatever anyone here says, the goalposts are continually shifting. This was originally supposed to be about stopping the NHS getting "overwhelmed" by flattening the curve. Squashing the Sombrero the PM called it. We've now moved to the point where cases at any level are a nemesis to be vanquished, even if those cases will not lead to hospitals being overwhelmed or extraordinary levels of excess death due to solid but imperfect immune responses from vaccines.

    Until a political decision is made that life goes on and we accept cases, admissions and deaths softened by booster jabs, this will never end. If you think there won't be a clamour for some sort of new lockdown in this country next winter even after 3 vaccines per vulnerable person, you are being naive.
    You say "cases at any level are a nemesis to be vanquished" - it`s more than that even. It`s now morphing into keeping airports shut just in case a new variant pops up.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Have to confess, the overnight loss of all EU share trading to Amsterdam, is the first bit of Project Fear which has:

    1 Come true

    AND

    2 Given me the fear

    One kinda knew it was coming, but the speed and scale still shocks. It might even make me regret my vote, if only the EU had not behaved with such flailing, malignant incompetence, in recent weeks.

    But, if the City does collapse (quick or slow), we are in deep shit. Massively in debt just as our tax base disappears. Not good. Not good at all.

    And that's what makes the whole damn thing... uncomfortable.

    It's very easy to take a principled stand, either a moral one, or a "raise your eyes to the far horizon" one, if your life is fundamentally comfortable. It's very easy to take a heap of winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss if it's not all your winnings and you know you have plenty of cash elsewhere.

    And, to be honest, everyone with time to read and post here is, in the grand scheme of things, fundamentally comfortable.

    The honest description of this version of Brexit is "Smash things up, take a hit now, something brilliant will grow out of the ruins in 10, 20, 50 years time. Unleashed potential. The regrowth after the forest fire. The Nike swoosh."
    But even if that turns out to be the case, even if the shock is therapeutic, there's the shock to endure first. And that's barely started, and is going to hurt.

    Good luck to those about to feel the impact.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    FF43 said:

    kinabalu said:

    FF43 said:

    The really interesting takeaway from Richard's suggestions is that not a single Leaver on here, that I have seen, wants to have any further dealings with the EU. At all.

    Edit. Apologies, @bigjohnowls, just saw your comment.

    A Pacific future awaits our Sceptered Isle. This seems to be the vision and I'd love to be able to share it. I have no great emotional attachment to our current bleak loco in the North Atlantic. Dreaming of far-flung places can warm the cockles, especially on such a winter's day, but I fear it is dreaming. My sense is that some of our more cerebral Leavers (plus Philip) are casting round for a Brexit rationale that is more elevated than simple antipathy to the EU and dislike of free movement. Which is fair enough actually. I'd probably be doing the same.
    I am curious to know how this pivot to Asia pans out. Especially if we are avoiding China at the same time. Traditionally the Japanese have been the big Asian investors in the UK, but they have been reducing their presence here, in part because of Brexit.

    I don't have a problem with it - I have close ties with that part of the world. I don't see the path through. China I think would be interested in a European base that the UK is in a good position to provide, but they are non-grata right now. And even that depends on the UK getting its shit together with the EU.
    They seem reasonably keen on it. This was posted earlier in the thread.

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Analysis-A-new-Anglo-Japanese-alliance-threatens-China-s-TPP-plans
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,915

    isam said:

    @Philip_Thompson I got a notification that you mentioned me regarding Net Satisfaction vs Positives in Leader Ratings, and one of the reasons given as to why NS is better was the 2015 GE result.

    Here are Cameron, Miliband & Clegg's Positives and NS for that parliament... I cant really see why one would be more useful than the other on this occasion to be honest.


    Hi sam,

    I quoted you as being the one from memory who found OGH's 2011 article saying that it was positives rather than net figures that were the most important.

    TSE tried to explain that the 2015 election changes that but like you I see no justification for that in those figures. The leadership ratings worked well to predict the election results as opposed to poll ratings but like OGH wrote in 2011, the approval figures worked well to do so.

    Now though all of a sudden only net figures matter. I wonder why?
    There were 281 Leader Rating Polls during Ed's time as LotO, he got a better Positive approval score than Cameron on 10 occasions, and a better Net Satisfaction score on 37
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Stocky said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    So we can ignore the SAGE 'doomsters', who think the whole thing should go on for ever, even though they hate having us in lockdown?

    Good to know.
    It`s become clear to me a long time ago that "locking down to protect the NHS from collapsing" is not true. It`s simply not accepted by SAGE, it seems to me. I`m praying that 22 Feb is the day that the roadmap out of this, via specific markers, is laid down so we can keep the government to it.
    I absolutely agree, but I have an awful feeling you are going to be disappointed.

    The way the government is moving, I think many will look on the roadmap and be appalled. But we shall see.

  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940

    maaarsh said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    By the 8th of March, we're more or less on course for a national infection rate of 30 odd cases per 100k, which given the loosely discussed threshold for staying in tier 1 used to be 100 cases per 100k gives a decent idea of how incredibly cautious the government is being.
    No you don;t understand Maarsh.

    The government is desperate to get us out of lockdown. Desperate. Most people on here don't think they want it a minute longer than needed.

    People such as Matt Hancock cannot abide having unbridled power given to them by unquestioning MPs.

    SAGE members DESPISE turning Britain into their own private experimental laboratory with no accountability whatsoever.
    I was pleasantly surprised to see Sir Keir "Royale" Starmer go in hard (by his standards) on this farcical holiday non-guidance.

    I hope it will be a sign of things to come.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502

    MrEd said:

    Have we discussed Gina Carano today?

    Haven't seen any comments but do you want to kick off the debate?
    Chat shit, get banged.
    Or perhaps 'how to prove a person claiming that holding the wrong political opinions gets you persecuted right by, er, persecuting her for holding the wrong political opinions'.

    Her analogy is hyperbolic and not very sensitive, for obvious reasons, but destroying her career and cancelling her is a gross overreaction when a clear apology would have sufficed. I don't see people who quote Pastor Niemöller's famous lines in less serious contexts than those to which they originally referred being flushed down the memory hole as a consequence.
    Come on, this is Disney.

    They don't like the talent expressing political opinions at all. Let alone repeated conspiracy theory stuff.
    ...It was not the first time fans on social media demanded she be fired from the Disney+ series. And other fans rallied to show their support of the actress.

    She has previously been called out for posts that mocked wearing masks amid the COVID-19 pandemic and making fun of the practice of sharing pronouns (something her “Mandalorian” costar Pedro Pascal does on his Twitter account).

    Carano has also falsely claimed voter fraud affected the results of the 2020 presidential election and has shared other conspiracy theories in her posts...
  • Options
    isam said:

    isam said:

    @Philip_Thompson I got a notification that you mentioned me regarding Net Satisfaction vs Positives in Leader Ratings, and one of the reasons given as to why NS is better was the 2015 GE result.

    Here are Cameron, Miliband & Clegg's Positives and NS for that parliament... I cant really see why one would be more useful than the other on this occasion to be honest.


    Hi sam,

    I quoted you as being the one from memory who found OGH's 2011 article saying that it was positives rather than net figures that were the most important.

    TSE tried to explain that the 2015 election changes that but like you I see no justification for that in those figures. The leadership ratings worked well to predict the election results as opposed to poll ratings but like OGH wrote in 2011, the approval figures worked well to do so.

    Now though all of a sudden only net figures matter. I wonder why?
    There were 281 Leader Rating Polls during Ed's time as LotO, he got a better Positive approval score than Cameron on 10 occasions, and a better Net Satisfaction score on 37
    That would indicate to me that gross trumped net as an indicator then surely @TheScreamingEagles ?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,182
    edited February 2021

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FF43 said:

    The really interesting takeaway from Richard's suggestions is that not a single Leaver on here, that I have seen, wants to have any further dealings with the EU. At all.

    Edit. Apologies, @bigjohnowls, just saw your comment.

    A Pacific future awaits our Sceptered Isle. This seems to be the vision and I'd love to be able to share it. I have no great emotional attachment to our current bleak loco in the North Atlantic. Dreaming of far-flung places can warm the cockles, especially on such a winter's day, but I fear it is dreaming. My sense is that some of our more cerebral Leavers (plus Philip) are casting round for a Brexit rationale that is more elevated than simple antipathy to the EU and dislike of free movement. Which is fair enough actually. I'd probably be doing the same.
    Its not a dream, the UK has been trading with far flung places for centuries already.

    The future is in the Pacific not the Atlantic. That's where all the world's economic growth is coming from.

    Pro-Europeans like to make out that the EU is the world's biggest trade area but it isn't under any definition. When we join the CPTPP the European Union won't even be on the podium, it would be the 4th tradezone in the world.
    Well we're in the Atlantic so let's hope a bit of the future ends up here too. I'm sure it will.
    We can be honorary members of the Pacific.

    Won't be the first time we've had major relations and trade with the Pacific.
    Indeed not. One thinks back fondly to when a third of the map was red and under the wing of good Queen Vic.

    Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the Waves, Britain never never never ... Can do that again (except in the dreams of Brexit nostalgics).
    Why do you feel that trading with Japan, Singapore and the other growing economies of Southeast Asia requires Imperialism? 🤔

    Its a rather strange and tragic version of racism you display there, only white Europeans are good enough to be traded with - to trade with the savages at the other side of the world would require Empire rather than cash in your eyes?
    I inject some realism when Planet Brexit gets too spacey. Somebody has to. Can we trade more with faraway places? Yes. Is our future more Asia-Pacific than European? No.
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    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    maaarsh said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    By the 8th of March, we're more or less on course for a national infection rate of 30 odd cases per 100k, which given the loosely discussed threshold for staying in tier 1 used to be 100 cases per 100k gives a decent idea of how incredibly cautious the government is being.
    No you don;t understand Maarsh.

    The government is desperate to get us out of lockdown. Desperate. Most people on here don't think they want it a minute longer than needed.

    People such as Matt Hancock cannot abide having unbridled power given to them by unquestioning MPs.

    SAGE members DESPISE turning Britain into their own private experimental laboratory with no accountability whatsoever.
    I was pleasantly surprised to see Sir Keir "Royale" Starmer go in hard (by his standards) on this farcical holiday non-guidance.

    I hope it will be a sign of things to come.
    The longer this goes on, the more Ben Franklin's comment about liberty and safety echoes down the centuries. We have given up liberty for temporary safety.

    We deserve neither.
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    Have we discussed Gina Carano today?

    Haven't seen any comments but do you want to kick off the debate?
    Chat shit, get banged.
    Ok, time to put myself in the minefield..

    First of all, she's got her facts wrong. The Jews weren't persecuted in Germany because of their politics, they were persecuted because of their race and religion. So she needs to be better educated about history.

    Second, is her wording anti-Semitic per se? If you take the view that the Holocaust is so uniquely evil that any comparison with any other event is, by itself, anti-Semitic, then yes it would be argued as such. If you don't take that view (as the Corbynites would argue for example, and those who claim that the treatment of the Palestinians is another Holocaust), then her words wouldn't be.

    However, the underlying point she was trying to make namely that the States is becoming increasingly politicised to the point where people hate their neighbours if they hold different political views actually has validity. I could give you several personal anecdotes of how that has happened, and it is definitely more problematic in the US than over here (and, yes, that includes the Brexit debate). Edelman found that most Americans believe they are in the middle of a "cold" civil war and the polling has been suggesting for a while that politicisation and intolerance of views / the right to use violence against political opponents have been gaining more favour.

    I suspect that this is something of an excuse to get rid of an actor whose previous comments have attracted controversy and where people have called for Disney+ to be boycotted because she appears on the show.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,883

    It's very easy to take a principled stand, either a moral one, or a "raise your eyes to the far horizon" one, if your life is fundamentally comfortable. It's very easy to take a heap of winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss if it's not all your winnings and you know you have plenty of cash elsewhere.

    Charles said:

    My business is entirely unaffected by Brexit and is going from strength to strength

    Oh.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,393

    Alistair said:
    I'm wondering if there's now an effect caused by England going for the low hanging fruit first (BJ & co going for headline grabbing, easier to attain figures, surely not!) now getting into the grindy, pita stuff

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1359867916724928521?s=20
    Yes, England really needs to get back into those care homes if it's to have any hope of vaccinating 125% of residents as Scotland has done. Screaming "NOOOO-O-O" and foaming at the mouth will not be tolerated as some sort of valid reason for non-participation this time around. Nor will having a touch of the sniffles - especially now the vaccine can be delivered at a safe distance by modified tranquiliser harpoons.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,709
    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    kinabalu said:

    FF43 said:

    The really interesting takeaway from Richard's suggestions is that not a single Leaver on here, that I have seen, wants to have any further dealings with the EU. At all.

    Edit. Apologies, @bigjohnowls, just saw your comment.

    A Pacific future awaits our Sceptered Isle. This seems to be the vision and I'd love to be able to share it. I have no great emotional attachment to our current bleak loco in the North Atlantic. Dreaming of far-flung places can warm the cockles, especially on such a winter's day, but I fear it is dreaming. My sense is that some of our more cerebral Leavers (plus Philip) are casting round for a Brexit rationale that is more elevated than simple antipathy to the EU and dislike of free movement. Which is fair enough actually. I'd probably be doing the same.
    I am curious to know how this pivot to Asia pans out. Especially if we are avoiding China at the same time. Traditionally the Japanese have been the big Asian investors in the UK, but they have been reducing their presence here, in part because of Brexit.

    I don't have a problem with it - I have close ties with that part of the world. I don't see the path through. China I think would be interested in a European base that the UK is in a good position to provide, but they are non-grata right now. And even that depends on the UK getting its shit together with the EU.
    They seem reasonably keen on it. This was posted earlier in the thread.

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Analysis-A-new-Anglo-Japanese-alliance-threatens-China-s-TPP-plans
    Interesting article and I agree Japan, definitely, and India, maybe, are the two likely post-Brexit diplomatic wins. Not sure how that translates into more business opportunities with Japan. More business opportunities for India, yes, which is a major reason the EU never agreed an FTA with that country while the UK was a member.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133

    Stocky said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    So we can ignore the SAGE 'doomsters', who think the whole thing should go on for ever, even though they hate having us in lockdown?

    Good to know.
    It`s become clear to me a long time ago that "locking down to protect the NHS from collapsing" is not true. It`s simply not accepted by SAGE, it seems to me. I`m praying that 22 Feb is the day that the roadmap out of this, via specific markers, is laid down so we can keep the government to it.
    I absolutely agree, but I have an awful feeling you are going to be disappointed.

    The way the government is moving, I think many will look on the roadmap and be appalled. But we shall see.

    Member of SAGE was quoted in the Mirror this morning as saying Britain could be more or less Covid free by Christmas. Another was on Radio 4 saying we can ease restrictions when tranmission is in the single thousands - according to the Zoe App it is under 15,000 at the mo.
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Have we discussed Gina Carano today?

    Haven't seen any comments but do you want to kick off the debate?
    Chat shit, get banged.
    Or perhaps 'how to prove a person claiming that holding the wrong political opinions gets you persecuted right by, er, persecuting her for holding the wrong political opinions'.

    Her analogy is hyperbolic and not very sensitive, for obvious reasons, but destroying her career and cancelling her is a gross overreaction when a clear apology would have sufficed. I don't see people who quote Pastor Niemöller's famous lines in less serious contexts than those to which they originally referred being flushed down the memory hole as a consequence.
    Come on, this is Disney.

    They don't like the talent expressing political opinions at all. Let alone repeated conspiracy theory stuff.
    ...It was not the first time fans on social media demanded she be fired from the Disney+ series. And other fans rallied to show their support of the actress.

    She has previously been called out for posts that mocked wearing masks amid the COVID-19 pandemic and making fun of the practice of sharing pronouns (something her “Mandalorian” costar Pedro Pascal does on his Twitter account).

    Carano has also falsely claimed voter fraud affected the results of the 2020 presidential election and has shared other conspiracy theories in her posts...
    Of course it's mostly a commercial decision, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss the ethics of it. I dislike most of those opinions - mocking masks and pushing the voter fraud narrative is particularly stupid - but her views have no bearing whatsoever on her work, and Disney should try to remember that some of their customers may still believe in quaint things like freedom of speech.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    kinabalu said:

    FF43 said:

    The really interesting takeaway from Richard's suggestions is that not a single Leaver on here, that I have seen, wants to have any further dealings with the EU. At all.

    Edit. Apologies, @bigjohnowls, just saw your comment.

    A Pacific future awaits our Sceptered Isle. This seems to be the vision and I'd love to be able to share it. I have no great emotional attachment to our current bleak loco in the North Atlantic. Dreaming of far-flung places can warm the cockles, especially on such a winter's day, but I fear it is dreaming. My sense is that some of our more cerebral Leavers (plus Philip) are casting round for a Brexit rationale that is more elevated than simple antipathy to the EU and dislike of free movement. Which is fair enough actually. I'd probably be doing the same.
    I am curious to know how this pivot to Asia pans out. Especially if we are avoiding China at the same time. Traditionally the Japanese have been the big Asian investors in the UK, but they have been reducing their presence here, in part because of Brexit.

    I don't have a problem with it - I have close ties with that part of the world. I don't see the path through. China I think would be interested in a European base that the UK is in a good position to provide, but they are non-grata right now. And even that depends on the UK getting its shit together with the EU.
    They seem reasonably keen on it. This was posted earlier in the thread.

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Analysis-A-new-Anglo-Japanese-alliance-threatens-China-s-TPP-plans
    Interesting article and I agree Japan, definitely, and India, maybe, are the two likely post-Brexit diplomatic wins. Not sure how that translates into more business opportunities with Japan. More business opportunities for India, yes, which is a major reason the EU never agreed an FTA with that country while the UK was a member.
    I don't know. What would be better for business, governments on excellent terms, or on hostile terms?
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MaxPB said:

    Speaking of listings, what I'd really like to see is rules loosened a bit so that startups aren't drawn to the US so easily. Our premium listing rules definitely need to be looked at again so that London gets its share of startup listings. Currently the UK accounts for a huge proportion of tech and fintech startups but hardly any of them choose London as their primary listing, most of them go to the US. That's something we need to urgently address. UK investors are missing out on a huge part of the UK economy because of this.

    There's more of an issue with milestone to milestone funding in the UK rather than the US blank cheque approach. Biotech goes to Nasdaq for exactly the same reason, plus the much deeper pool of specialist capital over there
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391

    maaarsh said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    By the 8th of March, we're more or less on course for a national infection rate of 30 odd cases per 100k, which given the loosely discussed threshold for staying in tier 1 used to be 100 cases per 100k gives a decent idea of how incredibly cautious the government is being.
    No you don;t understand Maarsh.

    The government is desperate to get us out of lockdown. Desperate. Most people on here don't think they want it a minute longer than needed.

    People such as Matt Hancock cannot abide having unbridled power given to them by unquestioning MPs.

    SAGE members DESPISE turning Britain into their own private experimental laboratory with no accountability whatsoever.
    I was pleasantly surprised to see Sir Keir "Royale" Starmer go in hard (by his standards) on this farcical holiday non-guidance.

    I hope it will be a sign of things to come.
    2 domestic holidays booked for me (as indeed is the case with every MP I know) and anyone following Shapps daft advice will be stuck with whatever dregs are left
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,883
    edited February 2021
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,952
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Comparing the treatment of Jews by the Nazis to the treatment of Republicans in the USA is pretty bloody vile.

    In fact, sacking is not enough. She should be marched into a wintry forest, forced to dig her own grave, then shot in the back of the head with a Luger.
    I thought her crime - and I could be completely wrong here - was that she talked about how the Nazis co-opted Jews so that much of the "work" was actually done by Jewish authorities rather than by the Nazis themselves.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Scott_xP said:
    It is obvious proof of vaccination is going to be required, despite what any minister in the UK might say at the moment.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,137
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Comparing the treatment of Jews by the Nazis to the treatment of Republicans in the USA is pretty bloody vile.

    In fact, sacking is not enough. She should be marched into a wintry forest, forced to dig her own grave, then shot in the back of the head with a Luger.
    Clearly a vile woman. However your response is also unfortunate.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2021
    A drug normally used to treat arthritis can be a life-saver for some of the sickest hospital patients with Covid, new research shows. For every 25 patients treated with tocilizumab, along with a cheap steroid already routinely given, an additional life would be saved, the experts say.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56024772

    Another baby step....but RECOVERY trials are doing great work.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    Scott_xP said:
    Ahem. Someone brought this up a month ago yes?
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,137
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It is obvious proof of vaccination is going to be required, despite what any minister in the UK might say at the moment.
    Well why say it?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    A drug normally used to treat arthritis can be a life-saver for some of the sickest hospital patients with Covid, new research shows.

    For every 25 patients treated with tocilizumab, along with a cheap steroid already routinely given, an additional life would be saved, the experts say.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56024772

    I'm getting the impression that pumping the old dears full of steroids is a viable path out of the pandemic.
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    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:
    This is the problematic quote afaics:

    Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors … even by children,” the report said quoting the post.

    “Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views.”

    IMV hating someone is hating someone. It doesn't really matter why.

    But on the left it is totemic that motive matters more than action. (cf the higher sentences for racist/sexuality motivated crimes in the UK vs generic crimes)
    Mens Rea has been part of criminal law for a very long time I think. The motive makes the crime in many cases, not just those involving hate.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It is obvious proof of vaccination is going to be required, despite what any minister in the UK might say at the moment.
    Well why say it?
    They might say the UK government has no plans to introduce it, which may be accurate. But they don't control what goes on in the other country. They will be required, and HMG will have to have something in place to enable Brits to travel.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_xP said:

    It's very easy to take a principled stand, either a moral one, or a "raise your eyes to the far horizon" one, if your life is fundamentally comfortable. It's very easy to take a heap of winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss if it's not all your winnings and you know you have plenty of cash elsewhere.

    Charles said:

    My business is entirely unaffected by Brexit and is going from strength to strength

    Oh.
    You are taking my comment out of context.

    It was a response to Leon's concern that the City was collapsing. It isn't. As always parts of growing and parts are declining.

    My part is growing - I bridge between the US, UK, Europe and Asia to source strategic capital.
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    RobD said:

    A drug normally used to treat arthritis can be a life-saver for some of the sickest hospital patients with Covid, new research shows.

    For every 25 patients treated with tocilizumab, along with a cheap steroid already routinely given, an additional life would be saved, the experts say.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56024772

    I'm getting the impression that pumping the old dears full of steroids is a viable path out of the pandemic.
    Not going to pass the drug testing for the Olympics though....
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    A drug normally used to treat arthritis can be a life-saver for some of the sickest hospital patients with Covid, new research shows.

    For every 25 patients treated with tocilizumab, along with a cheap steroid already routinely given, an additional life would be saved, the experts say.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56024772

    I'm getting the impression that pumping the old dears full of steroids is a viable path out of the pandemic.
    Not going to pass the drug testing for the Olympics though....
    Will be useful for carrying all those shopping bags home from Tescos though.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    edited February 2021
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It is obvious proof of vaccination is going to be required, despite what any minister in the UK might say at the moment.
    I have no idea why this isn't being embraced. The most opposed are those most on the fringe of the antivax lunacy (Of the Icke tendency) anyway.
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    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    DougSeal said:

    Stocky said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    So we can ignore the SAGE 'doomsters', who think the whole thing should go on for ever, even though they hate having us in lockdown?

    Good to know.
    It`s become clear to me a long time ago that "locking down to protect the NHS from collapsing" is not true. It`s simply not accepted by SAGE, it seems to me. I`m praying that 22 Feb is the day that the roadmap out of this, via specific markers, is laid down so we can keep the government to it.
    I absolutely agree, but I have an awful feeling you are going to be disappointed.

    The way the government is moving, I think many will look on the roadmap and be appalled. But we shall see.

    Member of SAGE was quoted in the Mirror this morning as saying Britain could be more or less Covid free by Christmas. Another was on Radio 4 saying we can ease restrictions when tranmission is in the single thousands - according to the Zoe App it is under 15,000 at the mo.
    Yes that radio 4 interview was incoherant - saying transmission was incredibly high and we're a long way from discussing easing restrictions, then saying it would need to be in the single thousands, which is basically next week.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    DougSeal said:

    Stocky said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    So we can ignore the SAGE 'doomsters', who think the whole thing should go on for ever, even though they hate having us in lockdown?

    Good to know.
    It`s become clear to me a long time ago that "locking down to protect the NHS from collapsing" is not true. It`s simply not accepted by SAGE, it seems to me. I`m praying that 22 Feb is the day that the roadmap out of this, via specific markers, is laid down so we can keep the government to it.
    I absolutely agree, but I have an awful feeling you are going to be disappointed.

    The way the government is moving, I think many will look on the roadmap and be appalled. But we shall see.

    Member of SAGE was quoted in the Mirror this morning as saying Britain could be more or less Covid free by Christmas. Another was on Radio 4 saying we can ease restrictions when tranmission is in the single thousands - according to the Zoe App it is under 15,000 at the mo.
    The Guy who wants to see transmission in the single thousands, Jeremy Farrar, thinks there are ......er....750,000 cases right now/

    Just for your ref.

    And the other guy, John Edmunds, claimed we should wear masks forever.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2021
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    A drug normally used to treat arthritis can be a life-saver for some of the sickest hospital patients with Covid, new research shows.

    For every 25 patients treated with tocilizumab, along with a cheap steroid already routinely given, an additional life would be saved, the experts say.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56024772

    I'm getting the impression that pumping the old dears full of steroids is a viable path out of the pandemic.
    Not going to pass the drug testing for the Olympics though....
    Will be useful for carrying all those shopping bags home from Tescos though.
    I couldn't believe my eyes the other day when the BBC reported from Bristol mass vaccination centre...all these bloody old dears rocking up with those drag along shopping bag thingies.

    Your going for your life saving jab, not a trip to Tescos.....ohhhh but what if they have some freebies or a good bargain.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It is obvious proof of vaccination is going to be required, despite what any minister in the UK might say at the moment.
    Well why say it?
    I think what they don't want to get into is "jollies for oldies" while the young have not yet had a chance to be vaccinated. I would only roll out "vaccine passports" once everyone who is entitled to one has had a chance to get fully inoculated - they don't want to spell out that that means "Autumn".
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718

    maaarsh said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    By the 8th of March, we're more or less on course for a national infection rate of 30 odd cases per 100k, which given the loosely discussed threshold for staying in tier 1 used to be 100 cases per 100k gives a decent idea of how incredibly cautious the government is being.
    No you don;t understand Maarsh.

    The government is desperate to get us out of lockdown. Desperate. Most people on here don't think they want it a minute longer than needed.

    People such as Matt Hancock cannot abide having unbridled power given to them by unquestioning MPs.

    SAGE members DESPISE turning Britain into their own private experimental laboratory with no accountability whatsoever.
    I was pleasantly surprised to see Sir Keir "Royale" Starmer go in hard (by his standards) on this farcical holiday non-guidance.

    I hope it will be a sign of things to come.
    The longer this goes on, the more Ben Franklin's comment about liberty and safety echoes down the centuries. We have given up liberty for temporary safety.

    We deserve neither.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

    That`s been echoing round my brain for almost a year now. I suppose we could argue about the application of the word "temporary".
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    maaarsh said:

    DougSeal said:

    Stocky said:

    Today's goalpost movement is the date of the roadmap out, according to the Telegraph.

    Ministers are now committing to 'the week of' 22 February' for the roadmap and not 22 February itself.

    All of which puts 08 March school start, hailed by Thompson and others on here, in doubt. In serious doubt.

    Plus SAGE are once again all over the media (John Edmunds etc). desperately trying to pitch in against any relaxations soon, or in some respects at all.

    But of course, many on here will still tell you that the government and SAGE do not want to keep you in lockdown a MINUTE longer than they have to.

    As the days go by, we realise more and more that the notion the people who are controlling our lives actually hate it is simply not true. Not true at all.

    No it doesn't. The government announced a 2 week gap between the roadmap and the schools reopening on the 8th.

    2 weeks before Thursday 08 March is not Monday 22 February, it is Thursday 25th. The roadmap could be finalised on the 22nd and published on the 24th and still be over a fortnight before the 8th.

    The idea any parents would accept schools being closed forever for no good reason is absolute insanity. It won't happen.
    So we can ignore the SAGE 'doomsters', who think the whole thing should go on for ever, even though they hate having us in lockdown?

    Good to know.
    It`s become clear to me a long time ago that "locking down to protect the NHS from collapsing" is not true. It`s simply not accepted by SAGE, it seems to me. I`m praying that 22 Feb is the day that the roadmap out of this, via specific markers, is laid down so we can keep the government to it.
    I absolutely agree, but I have an awful feeling you are going to be disappointed.

    The way the government is moving, I think many will look on the roadmap and be appalled. But we shall see.

    Member of SAGE was quoted in the Mirror this morning as saying Britain could be more or less Covid free by Christmas. Another was on Radio 4 saying we can ease restrictions when tranmission is in the single thousands - according to the Zoe App it is under 15,000 at the mo.
    Yes that radio 4 interview was incoherant - saying transmission was incredibly high and we're a long way from discussing easing restrictions, then saying it would need to be in the single thousands, which is basically next week.
    He thinks there are 750,000 infections right now.

    These people are advising our government.
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