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With the US Senate about to start the Trump impeachment process the latest tally has the ex-Presiden

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Andy_JS said:

    You always wonder with India these days whether they prefer to play one day internationals and 20/20 matches rather than test matches.

    Well, that’s certainly not true of Kohli, and he’s always said anyone who doesn’t want to play Tests can get stuffed.

    No side would beat Oz in Oz at Tests unless they were fully committed to and bloody good at them.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    Why is Jimmy Anderson known as the goat?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Andy_JS said:

    Why is Jimmy Anderson known as the goat?

    Because he was accused of head butting that Indian player?

    (That’s a guess.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    MattW said:

    Coming soon to a soapbox near you: the People's Inquiry into COVID

    https://www.peoplescovidinquiry.com/

    Objective and not at all partisan, following in the high tradition of Independent SAGE.

    Commissioners: Uncle Tom Cobley, and all.

    Are this group a wholly-owned subsidiary of Conservative Central Office?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Good victory, especially after the way India stunned Australia recently.

    Congratulations to everyone who bet on England, was clearly value and India were ridiculous at 10/1 for a world record score.

    That was hilarious yesterday, clearly a bunch of very optimistic Indians who thought that 10/1 for a world record was a fair price.

    We should be thankful that they exist though, maybe they'll be betting on next week's match too!
  • Andy_JS said:

    Why is Jimmy Anderson known as the goat?

    Greatest
    Of
    All
    Time
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Thanks for the cricket tip PtP.

    Nice earner on the win and I also layed India at 250.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,779
    Andy_JS said:

    Why is Jimmy Anderson known as the goat?

    GOAT = Greatest of All Time (see also Tom Brady, Lionel Messi)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Andy_JS said:

    Why is Jimmy Anderson known as the goat?

    Greatest
    Of
    All
    Time
    Magnificent though Anderson is, Cannock’s finest would disagree.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Lennon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Why is Jimmy Anderson known as the goat?

    GOAT = Greatest of All Time (see also Tom Brady, Lionel Messi)
    Don't forget Alan Pardew
  • Andy_JS said:

    Why is Jimmy Anderson known as the goat?

    government of all the talents?

    him and rashford will be in starmers cabinet.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    It's a bit like fell running but watched by fewer people
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    DavidL said:

    One of the many problems with the Impeachment process is that the evidence is actually irrelevant. A jury is supposed to try a case truly and fairly on the evidence but the Senate is completely incapable of doing that. Republican senators are trapped. If they vote to impeach they face the risk of being primaried. If they don't re-election will be harder with a significant number of republicans no longer signed up to the Trump shit show.

    What is interesting is the determined disinterest of Biden in the White House. He is determined not to be distracted by this from dealing with Covid, the economic carnage it has caused and trying to sort out the mess that Trump left behind. He may also be seeking to hint that this really should not be a partisan thing. But it is.

    The Biden thing is quietly intelligent - his job is Executive branch. In theory, touching the impeachment process is interfering with the Legislative branch. At a part where it has constitutionally sanctioned power over the Executive Branch no less - impeachment.

    So, by staying out of it, he is being Mr Constitutional.

    On the political side, the Dems will vote to convict. A couple of Republicans may join them in the end. Nothing Biden can do will change that. So why get involved?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    Round of applause to Channel 4 - for enabling us to watch this wonderful Test without having to pay for Sky Sport.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    George Useless struggling on Brexit again, on R4
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    It's a bit like fell running but watched by fewer people
    ....and usually more of an uphill task for England.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I think all this really shows is the impeachment process is totally unfit for purpose. American politics has become so partisan that there is no realistic chance of a President being convicted, no matter what the hell they do. I mean, if ever there was a case for a conviction of treason after his blatant attempts at vote rigging, intimidation, vexatious lawsuits and finally in effect inciting the overthrow of congress and the murder of his Vice President, it’s Trump. Yet here we are.

    Time for a full constitutional convention to get rid of the current load of rubbish - the electoral college, the current impeachment, the second amendment and radically change the presidential line of succession.

    But it will never happen, partly because the Yanks are blind to the poor quality of their constitution and partly because too many vested interests in Congress will never allow it.

    I agree it's poor in many areas, though it's pretty good in others, but it's not a specific American thing. The problem is with a Presidential system, where you elect somebody who is essentially not removable for four or five years. The Brazilians and the French have both found that at times. A Parliamentary system, where the PM can be removed by the legislature at any time for being crap and without having to prove "high crimes and misdemaenours" (a phrase whose meaning nobody really agrees on), is much better.

    I think wherever the Founders let their irrational dislike of their colonial master get in the way, as they did with setting up a Presidential system, or a too-rigorous separation of powers, or government by judges from the Supreme Court, having a tight definition of treason, they got it wrong. Wherever they followed our system, like having a representative legislature, they did OK.

    The current impeachment is a mistake anyway. It was obvious from the start that 17 Republicans would never vote to convict. The charges are obviously politically motivated, and aren't true beyond a reasonable doubt, given that the President called on the mob to protest peacefully and obey the Capitol Police. They give Trump yet more free publicity when that's the only reason he has any power in the first place. So personally I'd have just let him slink away to face lots of tedious tax lawsuits in New York.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited February 2021
    Stokes made a magnificent all round contribution. But to declare him man of the match ahead of Root is a bit harsh on Root.

    Edit - so he is man of the match. Now I’m confused. What did they give Stokes?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,220

    Six weeks at ConHome for anyone who was a nervous Nelly criticising Joe Root's lack of declaration yesterday.

    Always trust a Yorkshireman, especially one for Dore.

    And he shows confidence in his spinners in a manner Cook failed to do. He's grown into the captaincy rather well.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Round of applause to Channel 4 - for enabling us to watch this wonderful Test without having to pay for Sky Sport.

    I’ll give them a bigger clap if they can find some decent commentators.
  • ydoethur said:

    Stokes made a magnificent all round contribution. But to declare him man of the match ahead of Root is a bit harsh on Root.

    Edit - so he is man of the match. Now I’m confused. What did they give Stokes?

    They gave Stokes the equivalent of the the TMS champagne moment.

    Stokes won it for his one handed catch in India's first innings
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    Stokes made a magnificent all round contribution. But to declare him man of the match ahead of Root is a bit harsh on Root.

    Edit - so he is man of the match. Now I’m confused. What did they give Stokes?

    They gave Stokes the equivalent of the the TMS champagne moment.

    Stokes won it for his one handed catch in India's first innings
    Thanks.

    Although a bit harsh again given Root pulled off an even better catch.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    Pass but this Government is stupid enough that we have probably agreed to needing vet certification on the dinosaurs that provide the oil used in plastics.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited February 2021
    Nigelb said:

    Six weeks at ConHome for anyone who was a nervous Nelly criticising Joe Root's lack of declaration yesterday.

    Always trust a Yorkshireman, especially one for Dore.

    And he shows confidence in his spinners in a manner Cook failed to do. He's grown into the captaincy rather well.
    Whatever his abilities, you can’t argue with the figures. He has a better win rate than any captain who has led for 20 Tests other than Brearley. He’s won more tests than any captain other than Vaughan, with whom he is tied.

    Admittedly it’s partly for the same reason those two were so successful - the brilliance of his bowlers. But it’s still impressive. Cook had much the same bowlers, but not the same level of success.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    edited February 2021

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: cars start getting revealed in a week or so, then we have testing a fortnight later(ish). Then a couple of weeks, I think, until racing.

    Will likely put up another pre-season ramble, perhaps after testing.

    F1 testing is now March 12 to 14 in Bahrain - rather than March 2 to 4 in a cold(ish) Barcelona.

    https://the-race.com/formula-1/bahrain-2021-formula-1-testing/ has a nice overview of the additional hassles involved - it's going to be a rush to get there and the delay and distance removes some testing options.
  • Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    edited February 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    Its that boring game where people stand around on a field all day doing nothing much while wearing silly clothes.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,240
    edited February 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    It is not football. or lacrosse.

    Anyhoo, it is over.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    Well, still no vaccines here, despite more first hand reports of people in Group 6 being vaccinated in London.

    Grrrr.... 🤬

    Meanwhile a Covid outbreak at BaE and since lots of employees live in the local village I remain confined to my living-room. Thrillingly, I may spend time in the bedroom later.

    Laters
  • ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Six weeks at ConHome for anyone who was a nervous Nelly criticising Joe Root's lack of declaration yesterday.

    Always trust a Yorkshireman, especially one for Dore.

    And he shows confidence in his spinners in a manner Cook failed to do. He's grown into the captaincy rather well.
    Whatever his abilities, you can’t argue with the figures. He has a better win rate than any captain who has led for 20 Tests other than Brearley. He’s won more tests than any captain other than Vaughan, with whom he is tied.

    Admittedly it’s partly for the same reason those two were so successful - the brilliance of his bowlers. But it’s still impressive. Cook had much the same bowlers, but not the same level of success.
    Indeed. Speaking of goats the figures are starting to make the case for calling Root that potentially. But it's all for nothing unless he wins The Ashes.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    These people take the piss
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,440

    Because of COVID-19 are cricket clubs going to have to go back to hosting cricket rather than beer and cider festivals?

    Or the best option - both! Beer and cricket go together very well. Bants after the game is the best bit...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited February 2021

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Six weeks at ConHome for anyone who was a nervous Nelly criticising Joe Root's lack of declaration yesterday.

    Always trust a Yorkshireman, especially one for Dore.

    And he shows confidence in his spinners in a manner Cook failed to do. He's grown into the captaincy rather well.
    Whatever his abilities, you can’t argue with the figures. He has a better win rate than any captain who has led for 20 Tests other than Brearley. He’s won more tests than any captain other than Vaughan, with whom he is tied.

    Admittedly it’s partly for the same reason those two were so successful - the brilliance of his bowlers. But it’s still impressive. Cook had much the same bowlers, but not the same level of success.
    Indeed. Speaking of goats the figures are starting to make the case for calling Root that potentially. But it's all for nothing unless he wins The Ashes.
    I don’t think he’ll ever quite match Hammond, or Barrington.

    But there’s already every reason to bracket him with Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Compton and Hutton.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Six weeks at ConHome for anyone who was a nervous Nelly criticising Joe Root's lack of declaration yesterday.

    Always trust a Yorkshireman, especially one for Dore.

    And he shows confidence in his spinners in a manner Cook failed to do. He's grown into the captaincy rather well.
    Whatever his abilities, you can’t argue with the figures. He has a better win rate than any captain who has led for 20 Tests other than Brearley. He’s won more tests than any captain other than Vaughan, with whom he is tied.

    Admittedly it’s partly for the same reason those two were so successful - the brilliance of his bowlers. But it’s still impressive. Cook had much the same bowlers, but not the same level of success.
    Indeed. Speaking of goats the figures are starting to make the case for calling Root that potentially. But it's all for nothing unless he wins The Ashes.
    I don’t think he’ll ever quite match Hammond, or Barrington.

    But there’s already every reason to bracket him with Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Compton and Hutton.
    These people all sound like serial killers
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    These people take the piss
    If they were taking the piss, that would be OK. It’s their taking the money that’s the issue.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,550
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    The emerging problem, beyond even chocolate biscuits, is something like this, once the EEA/EFTA solution had been ignored or abandoned by Remainers and gradualist Brexiteers:

    Was the truth in the referendum campaign really that we may want to leave the EU but actually we can't. That 3rd country status is impossible because it is so damaging economically, and dangerous to the Irish situation?

    I think that is what Remainers thought, but that to say so admits that we had got so far in to something without real whole hearted consent that it is better to be in denial.

    If that's right then the real choice in the Referendum was between the potential disaster we have now (if the critics are correct) or an eternal democratic deficit with so solution and no getting off.

    It is an epic fail; but the fail was between 1975 and 2016.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Because of COVID-19 are cricket clubs going to have to go back to hosting cricket rather than beer and cider festivals?

    Or the best option - both! Beer and cricket go together very well. Bants after the game is the best bit...
    I've been to one cricket match: Durham v Yorkshire in 2019, one of those "blast" matches I believe, and it was really rather good including the post-game piss up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Six weeks at ConHome for anyone who was a nervous Nelly criticising Joe Root's lack of declaration yesterday.

    Always trust a Yorkshireman, especially one for Dore.

    And he shows confidence in his spinners in a manner Cook failed to do. He's grown into the captaincy rather well.
    Whatever his abilities, you can’t argue with the figures. He has a better win rate than any captain who has led for 20 Tests other than Brearley. He’s won more tests than any captain other than Vaughan, with whom he is tied.

    Admittedly it’s partly for the same reason those two were so successful - the brilliance of his bowlers. But it’s still impressive. Cook had much the same bowlers, but not the same level of success.
    Indeed. Speaking of goats the figures are starting to make the case for calling Root that potentially. But it's all for nothing unless he wins The Ashes.
    I don’t think he’ll ever quite match Hammond, or Barrington.

    But there’s already every reason to bracket him with Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Compton and Hutton.
    These people all sound like serial killers
    The Aussies certainly thought so given Hammond was in effect vice captain of the Bodyline side.
  • Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    Sad news.

    "Supremes co-founder and singer Mary Wilson dies aged 76"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55993045
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,240
    Cyclefree said:

    Well, still no vaccines here, despite more first hand reports of people in Group 6 being vaccinated in London.

    Grrrr.... 🤬

    Meanwhile a Covid outbreak at BaE and since lots of employees live in the local village I remain confined to my living-room. Thrillingly, I may spend time in the bedroom later.

    Laters

    Hope you are still reasonably well.

    Awaiting the furious article in about 3 days...
  • Cyclefree said:

    Well, still no vaccines here, despite more first hand reports of people in Group 6 being vaccinated in London.

    Grrrr.... 🤬

    Meanwhile a Covid outbreak at BaE and since lots of employees live in the local village I remain confined to my living-room. Thrillingly, I may spend time in the bedroom later.

    Laters

    I'm hearing of people in their early 60s get the vaccine in other parts of county, whilst in some places including my own they are still very slowly working through the 70+ years olds. I reckon we are at least two weeks behind many other places.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    The emerging problem, beyond even chocolate biscuits, is something like this, once the EEA/EFTA solution had been ignored or abandoned by Remainers and gradualist Brexiteers:

    Was the truth in the referendum campaign really that we may want to leave the EU but actually we can't. That 3rd country status is impossible because it is so damaging economically, and dangerous to the Irish situation?

    I think that is what Remainers thought, but that to say so admits that we had got so far in to something without real whole hearted consent that it is better to be in denial.

    If that's right then the real choice in the Referendum was between the potential disaster we have now (if the critics are correct) or an eternal democratic deficit with so solution and no getting off.

    It is an epic fail; but the fail was between 1975 and 2016.

    It wasn't even that - I lot of leave voters on here voted live because they thought the Government wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the EEA as they would grasp how important avoiding 3rd country was to our economy.

    Were it not for Covid we would see the full scale of the mess we are now in, Boris however has the advantage that Covid is hiding the full scale of the issue.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    Interesting - some actual data on track-and-trace

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55985562
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,240

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    Anyway, the monarchy doesn't rule, it reigns. Very different.

    But facts and republicans are strangers to each other in this country.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,550
    edited February 2021
    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    The emerging problem, beyond even chocolate biscuits, is something like this, once the EEA/EFTA solution had been ignored or abandoned by Remainers and gradualist Brexiteers:

    Was the truth in the referendum campaign really that we may want to leave the EU but actually we can't. That 3rd country status is impossible because it is so damaging economically, and dangerous to the Irish situation?

    I think that is what Remainers thought, but that to say so admits that we had got so far in to something without real whole hearted consent that it is better to be in denial.

    If that's right then the real choice in the Referendum was between the potential disaster we have now (if the critics are correct) or an eternal democratic deficit with so solution and no getting off.

    It is an epic fail; but the fail was between 1975 and 2016.

    It wasn't even that - I lot of leave voters on here voted live because they thought the Government wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the EEA as they would grasp how important avoiding 3rd country was to our economy.

    Were it not for Covid we would see the full scale of the mess we are now in, Boris however has the advantage that Covid is hiding the full scale of the issue.
    Interesting. Of course the choice between the economy/prosperity/practicality and democracy/sovereignty/ability to choose our own way in the world is not a choice between apples and pears but between two things both essential but completely different in nature. Which renders the argument so unilluminating both then and now.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,665
    edited February 2021
    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    I know but she lives in a Crown property, which we pay the uptake and security for.

    If she and her husband can live in a property like that they don't need furlough.
  • eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    The emerging problem, beyond even chocolate biscuits, is something like this, once the EEA/EFTA solution had been ignored or abandoned by Remainers and gradualist Brexiteers:

    Was the truth in the referendum campaign really that we may want to leave the EU but actually we can't. That 3rd country status is impossible because it is so damaging economically, and dangerous to the Irish situation?

    I think that is what Remainers thought, but that to say so admits that we had got so far in to something without real whole hearted consent that it is better to be in denial.

    If that's right then the real choice in the Referendum was between the potential disaster we have now (if the critics are correct) or an eternal democratic deficit with so solution and no getting off.

    It is an epic fail; but the fail was between 1975 and 2016.

    It wasn't even that - I lot of leave voters on here voted live because they thought the Government wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the EEA as they would grasp how important avoiding 3rd country was to our economy.

    Were it not for Covid we would see the full scale of the mess we are now in, Boris however has the advantage that Covid is hiding the full scale of the issue.
    Considering Boris and Gove explicitly said "we will leave the Single Market" why would they possible think that?

    Reality is we aren't in a mess. Apart from possibly Northern Ireland which either needs Gove's letter addressing in full or Article 16 invoking.

    As I predicted in my New Years Eve predictions, there are some issues much magnified on Twitter or by those who don't want to let the matter rest, but not really concerning to the rest of the country.

    The Port of Dover this week reported that their traffic is back up to 90% of normal volumes already for this time of year - despite Brexit and despite Covid.

    Your and RP's and Nabavi's and Scott's and others projections of doom just aren't happening.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    Many seem to forget how much the Royal family contribute via tourism.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Just being provocative TSE?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,220

    Interesting - some actual data on track-and-trace

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55985562

    But none on the key metric of how many asked to self isolate actually did so.
  • Mr. eek, ah, cheers for that correction.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,421

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    Many seem to forget how much the Royal family contribute via tourism.
    Really? I suppose France gets no tourism to the relics of its monarchy because it doesn't have a living family occupying the throne?

    Meanwhile we are shovelling money into the hands of this family at an obscene and absurd rate. When will we bring an end to this madness?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/08/queens-treasury-windfarm-bp-offshore-seabed-rights
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,240

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    I know but she lives in a Crown property, which we pay the uptake and security for.

    If she and her husband can live in a property like that they don't need furlough.
    Nope.

    They live in a house on Princess Anne's Estate at Gatcombe, which is owned privately by Princess Anne.

    Z does not even have a Royal Title AIUI.

    Any more for any more?
  • eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    The emerging problem, beyond even chocolate biscuits, is something like this, once the EEA/EFTA solution had been ignored or abandoned by Remainers and gradualist Brexiteers:

    Was the truth in the referendum campaign really that we may want to leave the EU but actually we can't. That 3rd country status is impossible because it is so damaging economically, and dangerous to the Irish situation?

    I think that is what Remainers thought, but that to say so admits that we had got so far in to something without real whole hearted consent that it is better to be in denial.

    If that's right then the real choice in the Referendum was between the potential disaster we have now (if the critics are correct) or an eternal democratic deficit with so solution and no getting off.

    It is an epic fail; but the fail was between 1975 and 2016.

    It wasn't even that - I lot of leave voters on here voted live because they thought the Government wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the EEA as they would grasp how important avoiding 3rd country was to our economy.

    Were it not for Covid we would see the full scale of the mess we are now in, Boris however has the advantage that Covid is hiding the full scale of the issue.
    The problem with the Covid cover argument is that Covid won't last forever, whereas the problems from this version of Brexit will. And the "it will be fine, as long as the EU tolerates just a little bit of smuggling suggestion comes in the category not understanding the depth of the ask. It's one thing to acknowledge that smuggling happens, it's another to make that the formal basis of a set of rules.

    But this was forseen. Major and Blair were laughed at for suggesting that Brexit would make a mess of NI in 2016. May's final plan boiled down to "The UK agrees not to diverge until we have a working invisible border between NI and ROI." Trouble was partly paranoia about the EU (reality is, they couldn't give a stuff about UK) and partly that, deep down, everyone knows that a working invisible border will never happen...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    The emerging problem, beyond even chocolate biscuits, is something like this, once the EEA/EFTA solution had been ignored or abandoned by Remainers and gradualist Brexiteers:

    Was the truth in the referendum campaign really that we may want to leave the EU but actually we can't. That 3rd country status is impossible because it is so damaging economically, and dangerous to the Irish situation?

    I think that is what Remainers thought, but that to say so admits that we had got so far in to something without real whole hearted consent that it is better to be in denial.

    If that's right then the real choice in the Referendum was between the potential disaster we have now (if the critics are correct) or an eternal democratic deficit with so solution and no getting off.

    It is an epic fail; but the fail was between 1975 and 2016.

    It wasn't even that - I lot of leave voters on here voted live because they thought the Government wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the EEA as they would grasp how important avoiding 3rd country was to our economy.

    Were it not for Covid we would see the full scale of the mess we are now in, Boris however has the advantage that Covid is hiding the full scale of the issue.
    Considering Boris and Gove explicitly said "we will leave the Single Market" why would they possible think that?

    Reality is we aren't in a mess. Apart from possibly Northern Ireland which either needs Gove's letter addressing in full or Article 16 invoking.

    As I predicted in my New Years Eve predictions, there are some issues much magnified on Twitter or by those who don't want to let the matter rest, but not really concerning to the rest of the country.

    The Port of Dover this week reported that their traffic is back up to 90% of normal volumes already for this time of year - despite Brexit and despite Covid.

    Your and RP's and Nabavi's and Scott's and others projections of doom just aren't happening.
    And how many of those lorries are empty merely travelling to the continent to collect an order rather than being full.

    Simple answer is we don't know.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Well, still no vaccines here, despite more first hand reports of people in Group 6 being vaccinated in London.

    Grrrr.... 🤬

    Meanwhile a Covid outbreak at BaE and since lots of employees live in the local village I remain confined to my living-room. Thrillingly, I may spend time in the bedroom later.

    Laters

    I'm hearing of people in their early 60s get the vaccine in other parts of county, whilst in some places including my own they are still very slowly working through the 70+ years olds. I reckon we are at least two weeks behind many other places.
    Some places have more oldies than others.

    Some places have more anti-vaxxers than others.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    I know but she lives in a Crown property, which we pay the uptake and security for.

    If she and her husband can live in a property like that they don't need furlough.
    Nope.

    They live in a house on Princess Anne's Estate at Gatcombe, which is owned privately by Princess Anne.

    Z does not even have a Royal Title AIUI.

    Any more for any more?
    I think "owned privately by Princess Anne" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    Many seem to forget how much the Royal family contribute via tourism.
    Really? I suppose France gets no tourism to the relics of its monarchy because it doesn't have a living family occupying the throne?

    Meanwhile we are shovelling money into the hands of this family at an obscene and absurd rate. When will we bring an end to this madness?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/08/queens-treasury-windfarm-bp-offshore-seabed-rights
    The key argument for keeping the royal family is look at the horses arses that would try to be elected head of state if we didn't
  • MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    I know but she lives in a Crown property, which we pay the uptake and security for.

    If she and her husband can live in a property like that they don't need furlough.
    Nope.

    They live in a house on Princess Anne's Estate at Gatcombe, which is owned privately by Princess Anne.

    Z does not even have a Royal Title AIUI.

    Any more for any more?
    It was bought by the Queen and gifted to Princess Anne on the occasion of her first marriage. When she was above paying income tax.

    How much taxes do you think the Queen would owe the country during the years she thought income tax was for the plebs?

    The property was bought via a tax dodge.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    I know it's DAG but is Gove and co really complaining that the EU are making decisions (that impact us) without us being there.

    That is after all what they wanted...

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1359069531587633154
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting - some actual data on track-and-trace

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55985562

    But none on the key metric of how many asked to self isolate actually did so.
    Which probably gets us back to vaccinations, making them mandatory etc.

    One day we will be honest with ourselves as a society. But today is not that day.
  • eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    The emerging problem, beyond even chocolate biscuits, is something like this, once the EEA/EFTA solution had been ignored or abandoned by Remainers and gradualist Brexiteers:

    Was the truth in the referendum campaign really that we may want to leave the EU but actually we can't. That 3rd country status is impossible because it is so damaging economically, and dangerous to the Irish situation?

    I think that is what Remainers thought, but that to say so admits that we had got so far in to something without real whole hearted consent that it is better to be in denial.

    If that's right then the real choice in the Referendum was between the potential disaster we have now (if the critics are correct) or an eternal democratic deficit with so solution and no getting off.

    It is an epic fail; but the fail was between 1975 and 2016.

    It wasn't even that - I lot of leave voters on here voted live because they thought the Government wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the EEA as they would grasp how important avoiding 3rd country was to our economy.

    Were it not for Covid we would see the full scale of the mess we are now in, Boris however has the advantage that Covid is hiding the full scale of the issue.
    Considering Boris and Gove explicitly said "we will leave the Single Market" why would they possible think that?

    Reality is we aren't in a mess. Apart from possibly Northern Ireland which either needs Gove's letter addressing in full or Article 16 invoking.

    As I predicted in my New Years Eve predictions, there are some issues much magnified on Twitter or by those who don't want to let the matter rest, but not really concerning to the rest of the country.

    The Port of Dover this week reported that their traffic is back up to 90% of normal volumes already for this time of year - despite Brexit and despite Covid.

    Your and RP's and Nabavi's and Scott's and others projections of doom just aren't happening.
    I’m a bit puzzled.
    I was recently told that it was unfair to say that UK Jan ‘21 exports were 68% down on Jan ‘20 without factoring in Covid. Now I’m being told that Dover traffic is back up to 90% of what it was at the same time last year. Why is 90% of 2020 traffic carrying only 32% of 2020 exports? Have exporters recovered most of that lost 68% in 8 days?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,754
    edited February 2021

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    Many seem to forget how much the Royal family contribute via tourism.
    I know there are a lot of them and they travel around Britain a lot and have lots of second and third homes and expensive tastes, but... well, surely their holidays are not that significant to the British tourism industry? :wink:
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    The emerging problem, beyond even chocolate biscuits, is something like this, once the EEA/EFTA solution had been ignored or abandoned by Remainers and gradualist Brexiteers:

    Was the truth in the referendum campaign really that we may want to leave the EU but actually we can't. That 3rd country status is impossible because it is so damaging economically, and dangerous to the Irish situation?

    I think that is what Remainers thought, but that to say so admits that we had got so far in to something without real whole hearted consent that it is better to be in denial.

    If that's right then the real choice in the Referendum was between the potential disaster we have now (if the critics are correct) or an eternal democratic deficit with so solution and no getting off.

    It is an epic fail; but the fail was between 1975 and 2016.

    It wasn't even that - I lot of leave voters on here voted live because they thought the Government wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the EEA as they would grasp how important avoiding 3rd country was to our economy.

    Were it not for Covid we would see the full scale of the mess we are now in, Boris however has the advantage that Covid is hiding the full scale of the issue.
    The problem with the Covid cover argument is that Covid won't last forever, whereas the problems from this version of Brexit will. And the "it will be fine, as long as the EU tolerates just a little bit of smuggling suggestion comes in the category not understanding the depth of the ask. It's one thing to acknowledge that smuggling happens, it's another to make that the formal basis of a set of rules.

    But this was forseen. Major and Blair were laughed at for suggesting that Brexit would make a mess of NI in 2016. May's final plan boiled down to "The UK agrees not to diverge until we have a working invisible border between NI and ROI." Trouble was partly paranoia about the EU (reality is, they couldn't give a stuff about UK) and partly that, deep down, everyone knows that a working invisible border will never happen...
    But the Covid story works as by the time it rising up to being THE news story it will also be old news as it's been covered on and off for months is item number 6 on the news report.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,421
    eek said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    The emerging problem, beyond even chocolate biscuits, is something like this, once the EEA/EFTA solution had been ignored or abandoned by Remainers and gradualist Brexiteers:

    Was the truth in the referendum campaign really that we may want to leave the EU but actually we can't. That 3rd country status is impossible because it is so damaging economically, and dangerous to the Irish situation?

    I think that is what Remainers thought, but that to say so admits that we had got so far in to something without real whole hearted consent that it is better to be in denial.

    If that's right then the real choice in the Referendum was between the potential disaster we have now (if the critics are correct) or an eternal democratic deficit with so solution and no getting off.

    It is an epic fail; but the fail was between 1975 and 2016.

    It wasn't even that - I lot of leave voters on here voted live because they thought the Government wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the EEA as they would grasp how important avoiding 3rd country was to our economy.

    Were it not for Covid we would see the full scale of the mess we are now in, Boris however has the advantage that Covid is hiding the full scale of the issue.
    Considering Boris and Gove explicitly said "we will leave the Single Market" why would they possible think that?

    Reality is we aren't in a mess. Apart from possibly Northern Ireland which either needs Gove's letter addressing in full or Article 16 invoking.

    As I predicted in my New Years Eve predictions, there are some issues much magnified on Twitter or by those who don't want to let the matter rest, but not really concerning to the rest of the country.

    The Port of Dover this week reported that their traffic is back up to 90% of normal volumes already for this time of year - despite Brexit and despite Covid.

    Your and RP's and Nabavi's and Scott's and others projections of doom just aren't happening.
    And how many of those lorries are empty merely travelling to the continent to collect an order rather than being full.

    Simple answer is we don't know.
    I think we get the January trade figures in the middle of March.

    All bad trade figures will be because of Covid. All good ones because of Brexit. Or vice versa.

    Running two massive experiments at the same time makes untangling the results impossible. Who approved this experimental design?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    Many seem to forget how much the Royal family contribute via tourism.
    Really? I suppose France gets no tourism to the relics of its monarchy because it doesn't have a living family occupying the throne?

    Meanwhile we are shovelling money into the hands of this family at an obscene and absurd rate. When will we bring an end to this madness?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/08/queens-treasury-windfarm-bp-offshore-seabed-rights
    You are right. Noone give a toss about the French . They only come to see the arc de triumphed and eat garlic.

    The tourism the monarchy brings, particularly as it is a living monarchy is huge. Let's not let vitriol get on the way of reality.
  • Selebian said:

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    Many seem to forget how much the Royal family contribute via tourism.
    I know there are a lot of them and they travel around Britain a lot and have lots of second and third homes and expensive tastes, but... well, surely their holidays are not that significant to the British tourism industry? :wink:
    Why do our unelected rulers need so many palaces and royal estates? Tell them to pick one, and use the others to home the homeless, many of whom are ex service personnel.

    Come on @MattW, tell me why the Queen needs so many residences and properties?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    The emerging problem, beyond even chocolate biscuits, is something like this, once the EEA/EFTA solution had been ignored or abandoned by Remainers and gradualist Brexiteers:

    Was the truth in the referendum campaign really that we may want to leave the EU but actually we can't. That 3rd country status is impossible because it is so damaging economically, and dangerous to the Irish situation?

    I think that is what Remainers thought, but that to say so admits that we had got so far in to something without real whole hearted consent that it is better to be in denial.

    If that's right then the real choice in the Referendum was between the potential disaster we have now (if the critics are correct) or an eternal democratic deficit with so solution and no getting off.

    It is an epic fail; but the fail was between 1975 and 2016.

    It wasn't even that - I lot of leave voters on here voted live because they thought the Government wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the EEA as they would grasp how important avoiding 3rd country was to our economy.

    Were it not for Covid we would see the full scale of the mess we are now in, Boris however has the advantage that Covid is hiding the full scale of the issue.
    Considering Boris and Gove explicitly said "we will leave the Single Market" why would they possible think that?

    Reality is we aren't in a mess. Apart from possibly Northern Ireland which either needs Gove's letter addressing in full or Article 16 invoking.

    As I predicted in my New Years Eve predictions, there are some issues much magnified on Twitter or by those who don't want to let the matter rest, but not really concerning to the rest of the country.

    The Port of Dover this week reported that their traffic is back up to 90% of normal volumes already for this time of year - despite Brexit and despite Covid.

    Your and RP's and Nabavi's and Scott's and others projections of doom just aren't happening.
    I think "a mess" would be a reasonable description of the current situation, though obviously not all of the Govbernment's making. We'll muddle through as best we can, but neither facile cheerleading or (I agree) overhyped gloom are credible.
  • Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    Many seem to forget how much the Royal family contribute via tourism.
    Really? I suppose France gets no tourism to the relics of its monarchy because it doesn't have a living family occupying the throne?

    Meanwhile we are shovelling money into the hands of this family at an obscene and absurd rate. When will we bring an end to this madness?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/08/queens-treasury-windfarm-bp-offshore-seabed-rights
    The key argument for keeping the royal family is look at the horses arses that would try to be elected head of state if we didn't
    The thing is the Royalists on here tell me that the Queen and monarchy is so popular, they'd easily win elections for Head of State.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, still no vaccines here, despite more first hand reports of people in Group 6 being vaccinated in London.

    Grrrr.... 🤬

    Meanwhile a Covid outbreak at BaE and since lots of employees live in the local village I remain confined to my living-room. Thrillingly, I may spend time in the bedroom later.

    Laters

    I'm hearing of people in their early 60s get the vaccine in other parts of county, whilst in some places including my own they are still very slowly working through the 70+ years olds. I reckon we are at least two weeks behind many other places.
    Some places have more oldies than others.

    Some places have more anti-vaxxers than others.
    And some places (with a greater proportion of oldies, as you call them, than others) have had their allocation of vaccines cut by a third so that other places can get ahead - as is happening in London - not simply catch up.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,421
    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    Many seem to forget how much the Royal family contribute via tourism.
    Really? I suppose France gets no tourism to the relics of its monarchy because it doesn't have a living family occupying the throne?

    Meanwhile we are shovelling money into the hands of this family at an obscene and absurd rate. When will we bring an end to this madness?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/08/queens-treasury-windfarm-bp-offshore-seabed-rights
    The key argument for keeping the royal family is look at the horses arses that would try to be elected head of state if we didn't
    I suppose the House of Commons was a big mistake and we should just gave a House of Lords with hereditary peers then?

    Sure, voters might end up making choices we think are crap, but it's not inevitable. Ireland has generally ended up with reasonably inoffensive people for its figurehead of a President.

    Why do you hate British people so much that you won't trust them to choose?
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    The emerging problem, beyond even chocolate biscuits, is something like this, once the EEA/EFTA solution had been ignored or abandoned by Remainers and gradualist Brexiteers:

    Was the truth in the referendum campaign really that we may want to leave the EU but actually we can't. That 3rd country status is impossible because it is so damaging economically, and dangerous to the Irish situation?

    I think that is what Remainers thought, but that to say so admits that we had got so far in to something without real whole hearted consent that it is better to be in denial.

    If that's right then the real choice in the Referendum was between the potential disaster we have now (if the critics are correct) or an eternal democratic deficit with so solution and no getting off.

    It is an epic fail; but the fail was between 1975 and 2016.

    It wasn't even that - I lot of leave voters on here voted live because they thought the Government wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the EEA as they would grasp how important avoiding 3rd country was to our economy.

    Were it not for Covid we would see the full scale of the mess we are now in, Boris however has the advantage that Covid is hiding the full scale of the issue.
    The problem with the Covid cover argument is that Covid won't last forever, whereas the problems from this version of Brexit will. And the "it will be fine, as long as the EU tolerates just a little bit of smuggling suggestion comes in the category not understanding the depth of the ask. It's one thing to acknowledge that smuggling happens, it's another to make that the formal basis of a set of rules.

    But this was forseen. Major and Blair were laughed at for suggesting that Brexit would make a mess of NI in 2016. May's final plan boiled down to "The UK agrees not to diverge until we have a working invisible border between NI and ROI." Trouble was partly paranoia about the EU (reality is, they couldn't give a stuff about UK) and partly that, deep down, everyone knows that a working invisible border will never happen...
    But the Covid story works as by the time it rising up to being THE news story it will also be old news as it's been covered on and off for months is item number 6 on the news report.
    Fair point.

    My bad for forgetting that, for this government, the running order of the evening news is infinitely more important than reality on the ground.
  • TOPPING said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    I know but she lives in a Crown property, which we pay the uptake and security for.

    If she and her husband can live in a property like that they don't need furlough.
    Nope.

    They live in a house on Princess Anne's Estate at Gatcombe, which is owned privately by Princess Anne.

    Z does not even have a Royal Title AIUI.

    Any more for any more?
    I think "owned privately by Princess Anne" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
    It is remarkable what you can buy for your kids (and effectively for your future grandkids) if you don't have to pay income tax at the time.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    eek said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    What does, what can a vet certify about chocolate biscuits?

    Also, what is this "cricket" about which everyone is going on, interminably?
    The emerging problem, beyond even chocolate biscuits, is something like this, once the EEA/EFTA solution had been ignored or abandoned by Remainers and gradualist Brexiteers:

    Was the truth in the referendum campaign really that we may want to leave the EU but actually we can't. That 3rd country status is impossible because it is so damaging economically, and dangerous to the Irish situation?

    I think that is what Remainers thought, but that to say so admits that we had got so far in to something without real whole hearted consent that it is better to be in denial.

    If that's right then the real choice in the Referendum was between the potential disaster we have now (if the critics are correct) or an eternal democratic deficit with so solution and no getting off.

    It is an epic fail; but the fail was between 1975 and 2016.

    It wasn't even that - I lot of leave voters on here voted live because they thought the Government wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the EEA as they would grasp how important avoiding 3rd country was to our economy.

    Were it not for Covid we would see the full scale of the mess we are now in, Boris however has the advantage that Covid is hiding the full scale of the issue.
    Considering Boris and Gove explicitly said "we will leave the Single Market" why would they possible think that?

    Reality is we aren't in a mess. Apart from possibly Northern Ireland which either needs Gove's letter addressing in full or Article 16 invoking.

    As I predicted in my New Years Eve predictions, there are some issues much magnified on Twitter or by those who don't want to let the matter rest, but not really concerning to the rest of the country.

    The Port of Dover this week reported that their traffic is back up to 90% of normal volumes already for this time of year - despite Brexit and despite Covid.

    Your and RP's and Nabavi's and Scott's and others projections of doom just aren't happening.
    And how many of those lorries are empty merely travelling to the continent to collect an order rather than being full.

    Simple answer is we don't know.
    I think we get the January trade figures in the middle of March.

    All bad trade figures will be because of Covid. All good ones because of Brexit. Or vice versa.

    Running two massive experiments at the same time makes untangling the results impossible. Who approved this experimental design?
    Someone who wanted to ensure Brexit was a "success".
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462
    Fishing said:

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    Anyway, the monarchy doesn't rule, it reigns. Very different.

    But facts and republicans are strangers to each other in this country.
    Why spoil a sensible comment with your political prejudices?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Scott_xP said:
    Is Brexit not, in fact, "done" then?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    Many seem to forget how much the Royal family contribute via tourism.
    Really? I suppose France gets no tourism to the relics of its monarchy because it doesn't have a living family occupying the throne?

    Meanwhile we are shovelling money into the hands of this family at an obscene and absurd rate. When will we bring an end to this madness?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/08/queens-treasury-windfarm-bp-offshore-seabed-rights
    The key argument for keeping the royal family is look at the horses arses that would try to be elected head of state if we didn't
    The thing is the Royalists on here tell me that the Queen and monarchy is so popular, they'd easily win elections for Head of State.
    A problem for republicans is that anyone likely to command reasonable levels of support as an alternative Head of State is almost certainly a pro-monarchist themselves.

    However, I understand that Eddie Izzard is a republican, so maybe there's hope for the Cromwellians after all?
  • Cyclefree said:



    Cyclefree said:

    Well, still no vaccines here, despite more first hand reports of people in Group 6 being vaccinated in London.

    Grrrr.... 🤬

    Meanwhile a Covid outbreak at BaE and since lots of employees live in the local village I remain confined to my living-room. Thrillingly, I may spend time in the bedroom later.

    Laters

    I'm hearing of people in their early 60s get the vaccine in other parts of county, whilst in some places including my own they are still very slowly working through the 70+ years olds. I reckon we are at least two weeks behind many other places.
    Some places have more oldies than others.

    Some places have more anti-vaxxers than others.
    And some places (with a greater proportion of oldies, as you call them, than others) have had their allocation of vaccines cut by a third so that other places can get ahead - as is happening in London - not simply catch up.

    Do you have any evidence for that claim ?

    Lets look at some actual data.

    Yesterday's update showed that 38,523 new vaccinations in North East and Yorkshire (which includes most of Cumbria) and 21,057 in London.
  • MattW said:

    Obviously not made of the right stuff, a proper royal would have made massive efforts to stop the public knowing how much they got from the national tit. And that tweed...

    https://twitter.com/mattsunroyal/status/1358906277506744321?s=21

    Take back control from our unelected rulers.

    We spend x million on these gits, let us spend it on the NHS instead.
    Hate to break it you.

    Zara T does not get anything from the Civil List.

    If you find anything she does get from the public do let us know, but never let reality get in the way of a good story etc...
    Many seem to forget how much the Royal family contribute via tourism.
    Is your name a clue?

    They contribute square root of f all.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    Cyclefree said:



    Cyclefree said:

    Well, still no vaccines here, despite more first hand reports of people in Group 6 being vaccinated in London.

    Grrrr.... 🤬

    Meanwhile a Covid outbreak at BaE and since lots of employees live in the local village I remain confined to my living-room. Thrillingly, I may spend time in the bedroom later.

    Laters

    I'm hearing of people in their early 60s get the vaccine in other parts of county, whilst in some places including my own they are still very slowly working through the 70+ years olds. I reckon we are at least two weeks behind many other places.
    Some places have more oldies than others.

    Some places have more anti-vaxxers than others.
    And some places (with a greater proportion of oldies, as you call them, than others) have had their allocation of vaccines cut by a third so that other places can get ahead - as is happening in London - not simply catch up.

    The weekly data for England - https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/ - Includes population estimates from each area.

    If we then take the latest data (published yesterday) we the following percentages of the 16+ populations

    East Of England 24.31%
    London 16.83%
    Midlands 23.44%
    North East And Yorkshire 23.38%
    North West 25.09%
    South East 23.61%
    South West 26.17%

    For second vaccinations

    East Of England 1.09%
    London 0.87%
    Midlands 0.83%
    North East And Yorkshire 1.09%
    North West 1.19%
    South East 1.13%
    South West 1.21%

    So allocation of vaccines has not resulted in preferential treatment for London to this date.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,220
    Cost benefit analysis of rapid antigen tests under a variety of assumptions.

    Clinical and Economic Impact of Widespread Rapid Testing to Decrease SARS-CoV-2 Transmission
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.06.21251270v1
    ...The value of frequent, rapid testing to reduce community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is poorly understood. Objective: To define performance standards and predict the clinical, epidemiological, and economic outcomes of nationwide, home-based, antigen testing. Design: A simple compartmental epidemic model estimated viral transmission, clinical history, and resource use, with and without testing. Data Sources: Parameter values and ranges informed by Centers for Disease Control guidance and published literature. Target Population: United States population. Time Horizon: 60 days. Perspective: Societal. Costs include: testing, inpatient care, and lost workdays. Intervention: Home-based SARS-CoV-2 antigen testing. Outcome Measures: Cumulative infections and deaths, numbers isolated and/or hospitalized, and total costs. Results of Base-Case Analysis: Without a testing intervention, the model anticipates 15 million infections, 125,000 deaths, and $10.4 billion in costs ($6.5 billion inpatient; $3.9 billion lost productivity) over a 60-day horizon. Weekly availability of testing may avert 4 million infections and 19,000 deaths, raising costs by $21.5 billion. Lower inpatient outlays ($5.9 billion) would partially offset additional testing expenditures ($12.0 billion) and workdays lost ($13.9 billion), yielding incremental costs per infection (death) averted of $5,400 ($1,100,000). Results of Sensitivity Analysis: Outcome estimates vary widely under different behavioral assumptions and testing frequencies. However, key findings persist across all scenarios: large reductions in infections, mortality, and hospitalizations; and costs per death averted roughly an order of magnitude lower than commonly accepted willingness-to-pay values per statistical life saved ($5-17 million). Limitations: Analysis restricted to at-home testing and limited by uncertainties about test performance. Conclusion: High-frequency home testing for SARS-CoV-2 using an inexpensive, imperfect test could contribute to pandemic control at justifiable cost and warrants consideration as part of a national containment strategy...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    Cyclefree said:



    Cyclefree said:

    Well, still no vaccines here, despite more first hand reports of people in Group 6 being vaccinated in London.

    Grrrr.... 🤬

    Meanwhile a Covid outbreak at BaE and since lots of employees live in the local village I remain confined to my living-room. Thrillingly, I may spend time in the bedroom later.

    Laters

    I'm hearing of people in their early 60s get the vaccine in other parts of county, whilst in some places including my own they are still very slowly working through the 70+ years olds. I reckon we are at least two weeks behind many other places.
    Some places have more oldies than others.

    Some places have more anti-vaxxers than others.
    And some places (with a greater proportion of oldies, as you call them, than others) have had their allocation of vaccines cut by a third so that other places can get ahead - as is happening in London - not simply catch up.

    The weekly data for England - https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/ - Includes population estimates from each area.

    If we then take the latest data (published yesterday) we the following percentages of the 16+ populations

    East Of England 24.31%
    London 16.83%
    Midlands 23.44%
    North East And Yorkshire 23.38%
    North West 25.09%
    South East 23.61%
    South West 26.17%

    For second vaccinations

    East Of England 1.09%
    London 0.87%
    Midlands 0.83%
    North East And Yorkshire 1.09%
    North West 1.19%
    South East 1.13%
    South West 1.21%

    So allocation of vaccines has not resulted in preferential treatment for London to this date.
    +1 - I believe the London issue may be far more related to the lack of take up by some communities resulting in London vaccinating others to ensure vaccines are fully used.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Is Brexit not, in fact, "done" then?
    Brexit is done - the issue is that we've now discovered the consequences and reality of what we agreed to.

  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    I understand that there is a large issue at play here but trying to get some sort of sympathy from yesterday a lobster supplier and today a British supermarket in Belgium - it's hardly man of the people stuff. In fact over the weekend there was an article on the BBC about how people would struggle to find an au pair.

    If it wasn't all brewed here under license I would suggest something like Belgian beer.

    Can anyone else think of something that will be affected that will actually lead to outrage down the pub!

  • So if people are happy with the principle of a hereditary head of state that means they'd be fine with the principle of a the principle of a hereditary Prime Minister?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Cyclefree said:



    Cyclefree said:

    Well, still no vaccines here, despite more first hand reports of people in Group 6 being vaccinated in London.

    Grrrr.... 🤬

    Meanwhile a Covid outbreak at BaE and since lots of employees live in the local village I remain confined to my living-room. Thrillingly, I may spend time in the bedroom later.

    Laters

    I'm hearing of people in their early 60s get the vaccine in other parts of county, whilst in some places including my own they are still very slowly working through the 70+ years olds. I reckon we are at least two weeks behind many other places.
    Some places have more oldies than others.

    Some places have more anti-vaxxers than others.
    And some places (with a greater proportion of oldies, as you call them, than others) have had their allocation of vaccines cut by a third so that other places can get ahead - as is happening in London - not simply catch up.

    The data doesn't support that view. London has had the slowest roll out of all the major regions. The only reason people under 70 are getting doses is because there's low uptake in certain parts. Even with that the proportion of people who received a dose is lower in London than elsewhere in the country.

    You're falling into the same non-London trap of blaming us for everything that happens in the country.
  • On topic, the practical problem for the GOP is:

    - They'd really like Trump to be banned from running again
    - For any individual to vote for this would get them in trouble with their base, and maybe lose them their job

    This is particularly acute for people like Ted Cruz, who don't want to have to run against Trump but also really, really don't want to upset his base.

    Isn't the solution for people who aren't already on the record as anti-Trumpers to say it's unconstitutional and boycott the whole thing?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    edited February 2021
    Youd expect London to have done a smaller percentage of vaccinations for 4 reasons: fewer old people, fewer people with conditions like diabetes/obesity, higher percentage of BAMEs whom we know are more sceptical of taking the vaccine, less settled population than places like the north-east of England which makes organising something like a mass vaccination programme more difficult. [BAMEs are more likely to have diabetes but that factor is outweighed by the much younger population in the capital].
  • Mr. Eagles, you are a silly sausage.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    Off topic, an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast from a British supermarket in Belgium who haven't been able to get resupply since Brexit.

    Bless - we haven't even got started yet. Our government insisted on full 3rd country status without knowing what that means in practice. As an example, should this store want to buy McVities Chocolate Digestives, a Veterinary certificate is needed.

    These are the standard 3rd country rules that we demanded - seemingly without knowing what they were. We could of course reopen negotiations - so that we are able to send things from one part of the UK to another part of the UK. But to do so would be treason or whatever. So instead we will enjoy "this is what we voted for" and "stop attacking our Brilliant Brexit" etc etc

    I understand that there is a large issue at play here but trying to get some sort of sympathy from yesterday a lobster supplier and today a British supermarket in Belgium - it's hardly man of the people stuff. In fact over the weekend there was an article on the BBC about how people would struggle to find an au pair.

    If it wasn't all brewed here under license I would suggest something like Belgian beer.

    Can anyone else think of something that will be affected that will actually lead to outrage down the pub!

    Down the pub is difficult as anything that could be a problem there (wine) is probably substitutable in ways no one would notice (there is more than enough mark up to swallow a slight price increase and they will just up the price per glass to reflect it anyway).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    eek said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Cyclefree said:

    Well, still no vaccines here, despite more first hand reports of people in Group 6 being vaccinated in London.

    Grrrr.... 🤬

    Meanwhile a Covid outbreak at BaE and since lots of employees live in the local village I remain confined to my living-room. Thrillingly, I may spend time in the bedroom later.

    Laters

    I'm hearing of people in their early 60s get the vaccine in other parts of county, whilst in some places including my own they are still very slowly working through the 70+ years olds. I reckon we are at least two weeks behind many other places.
    Some places have more oldies than others.

    Some places have more anti-vaxxers than others.
    And some places (with a greater proportion of oldies, as you call them, than others) have had their allocation of vaccines cut by a third so that other places can get ahead - as is happening in London - not simply catch up.

    The weekly data for England - https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/ - Includes population estimates from each area.

    If we then take the latest data (published yesterday) we the following percentages of the 16+ populations

    East Of England 24.31%
    London 16.83%
    Midlands 23.44%
    North East And Yorkshire 23.38%
    North West 25.09%
    South East 23.61%
    South West 26.17%

    For second vaccinations

    East Of England 1.09%
    London 0.87%
    Midlands 0.83%
    North East And Yorkshire 1.09%
    North West 1.19%
    South East 1.13%
    South West 1.21%

    So allocation of vaccines has not resulted in preferential treatment for London to this date.
    +1 - I believe the London issue may be far more related to the lack of take up by some communities resulting in London vaccinating others to ensure vaccines are fully used.
    I believe so as well. This why (a) the rest of the country is going - "what take up problem?" (b) why ministers are worried about it - having London poorly covered, given the population flow through London in normal times.....
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