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The polling that shows that Boris is NOT the right UK leader to protect the union – politicalbetting

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  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,590
    “UK minister tells EU to avoid vaccine nationalism
    Nadhim Zahawi calls for co-operation over supply problems“

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/warn-us-before-covid-vaccines-go-to-britain-eu-tells-pfizer-0mxxv3xbj
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Andy_JS said:

    TOPPING said:

    My local GP has just sent out a text asking people to avoid the health centre for a few days.

    This is because they are going to do 2000 vaccinations, in a 6 day block, at the end of the month.

    Blimey that's not many. In the vaccine centre I was in last month they were doing 300-400 a day and there was barely a trickle (two treatment rooms). And that was with the 15 minute wait.
    Surely it depends how large the health centre is and how populous the area is.
    Yes absolutely. Wouldn't disagree with that. The one I experienced was a portakabin annex to a large hospital which I imagine helps things.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,551
    HYUFD said:

    The distancing from Trump lasted all of 5 minutes.
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1354056259423580162?s=21

    Apparently there is a poll out there showing a MAGA party would push the Republicans into third nationally.

    Every argument advanced by the never Trump republicans like the Lincoln Project, as well as many on here, does not hold water.
    There is.

    It had the Democrats on 46%, a Trumpite Patriots Party on 23% and the GOP on just 17% if such a Patriots Party was formed by Trump. Very conservative voters would vote 55% Patriots to just 24% GOP.

    https://twitter.com/DaveAtherton20/status/1353983112628359168?s=20

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/shock-poll-trump-patriot-party-would-win-almost-quarter-voters-drop-gop

    In such a nightmare scenario for the GOP they may as well go the whole hog and support PR for Congress
    The Democrats need to just keep very quiet and watch. There may be the opportunity of a lifetime there.

  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    edited January 2021
    I got a dodgy vaccine email this morning. Looked fairly kosher (none of the usual grammatical/spelling errors, "from" noreply@nhs.gov.uk ). I followed the link but when it took me to www.thewealthcare.in I twigged.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55811161
    https://twitter.com/NHSuk/status/1353751565518123015?s=20
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,601
    Leon said:

    If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks....

    ....Labour might be six points ahead.

    Mebbe.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    The distancing from Trump lasted all of 5 minutes.
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1354056259423580162?s=21

    Apparently there is a poll out there showing a MAGA party would push the Republicans into third nationally.

    Every argument advanced by the never Trump republicans like the Lincoln Project, as well as many on here, does not hold water.
    There is.

    It had the Democrats on 46%, a Trumpite Patriots Party on 23% and the GOP on just 17% if such a Patriots Party was formed by Trump. Very conservative voters would vote 55% Patriots to just 24% GOP.

    https://twitter.com/DaveAtherton20/status/1353983112628359168?s=20

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/shock-poll-trump-patriot-party-would-win-almost-quarter-voters-drop-gop

    In such a nightmare scenario for the GOP they may as well go the whole hog and support PR for Congress
    The Democrats need to just keep very quiet and watch. There may be the opportunity of a lifetime there.

    Could be some surprising Senate pickups for the Dems in the midterms.
  • Excellent article!
    Of course labour has nothing to say. It champions the public sector producer lobby over the wider consumer of services.

    JHB tied Wes Streeting into a knot this morning over when labour would like to see schools re-open.
    "When we're clear that schools are no longer a massive transmission vector as they were before
    Christmas"
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,551

    https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1354074352279576587?s=20

    I don't know why Johnson doesn't announce it in the HoC first then do the press conference....

    And as its a Public Health issue Scotland could do what it wants now

    If they just hang on a short time it will be exactly a year since it should have been done, and we can have a cake.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,355

    I'd vote for anything that meant I never had to.listen to the whining drone of Ms Sturgeon again.

    I am sure she would not want to wipe her shoes on you either
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,551
    edited January 2021

    Excellent article!
    Of course labour has nothing to say. It champions the public sector producer lobby over the wider consumer of services.

    JHB tied Wes Streeting into a knot this morning over when labour would like to see schools re-open.
    "When we're clear that schools are no longer a massive transmission vector as they were before
    Christmas"
    Indeed; to challenge the government to come up with a plan when you don't know what yours is (except 'let's follow the science') is not great politics. Imagine Blair getting stuck like that. He would have had exactly 5 clear steps to perfection and completion, each one entirely plausible, each one impossible to deliver, but nothing noticeable as he says it. genius.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882
    Alistair said:
    Notd to mention tax havens such as the CIs which are parasitic on the UK. Not exactly sharing never mind pooling.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Pulpstar said:

    BBC:

    "Jessica Gold, from London ... flew out to South Africa, where she owns a safari lodge in Greater Kruger National Park, at the end of November. Her son and mother then joined her for Christmas."

    Suck it up.

    Don't see why she can't continue to live out in South Africa tbh - that's where her business is located.
    Their case numbers are better than the U.K. at the moment, and if she has a safari lodge she shouldn’t find it too difficult to isolate herself somewhat from the rest of the world.

    Pop:60m

  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    Leon said:

    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:
    A half-baked announcement. Only covring a handful of countries. Full of apologetic wibble. Then next week when a new variant pops up in Dubai or Canada, he'll be dragged in to doing the right thing.

    Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
    Why the hell should people quarantine if they're coming from New Zealand or Taiwan?

    Priti's solution to any problem is to close borders. She's only trying to cover up her department's failure at enforcing the regulations we already have. Just like Hancock, who can't explain why we still don't have a Taiwanese-style tracing regime a year after they set theirs up.
    Once you reach a certain level of infections - many thousands a day - track and trace becomes impossible. Germany admitted this months ago, and abandoned their attempt.

    You have to do it right at the start, with closed borders.

    Which is what we should have done. But it is too late now.

    It may become possible again if the vaccine massively reduces the outbreak down to hundreds of daily cases.....
    No we could have done it last spring during lockdown when cases fell to a very low level. That might have stopped, or at least reduced, the second wave. And we should be doing it now as cases are falling quickly. But we aren't.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,363

    BBC News - Harriet Tubman: Biden moves to put anti-slavery activist on $20 bill
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55808324

    I'm trying to imagine Harriet Tubman's reaction to Ted Cruz. I am going for -

    1) Shoot him twice
    2) Pray to god for forgiveness for shooting Ted Cruz
    3) Get up and shoot him twice more.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    malcolmg said:

    I'd vote for anything that meant I never had to.listen to the whining drone of Ms Sturgeon again.

    I am sure she would not want to wipe her shoes on you either
    Why would she, when she’s busy wiping them all over Salmond and every unionist politician?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,095
    edited January 2021
    New campaign hobby horse...Tories winning under FPTP is undemocratic, so we need to have a new system. I don't think he was very happy that other direct democratic system based on a pure majority that led to Brexit either.

    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1353847990788698112?s=19
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,355
    Alistair said:
    Carlotta wanted and tried to only show it up as Scotland and SNPBAD rather than the good news story it really is. Pretty shabby but normal for her.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    MaxPB said:

    My dad just got his first jab, AZ in case anyone is wondering. Had it done by a friendly and informative doctor.

    His questions to the doctor with answers:

    Q: When will I get my next dose?
    A: In around 12 weeks, look out for our text it will be done in the same centre.

    Q: Will that be moved forwards?
    A: No, for this vaccine the NHS recommendation is for a 12 week gap to ensure best protection.

    Q: Why did I get the text, I'm only 67?
    A: We're finding it really difficult to get any takers in this area by easy contact methods so we're contacting everyone aged 60 and up to ensure we don't waste doses or have them sitting in the fridge unused, the decision was taken locally.

    Q: How many do you get through per day?
    A: Around 800-1000 depending on supply and appointments.

    Those are paraphrased by my dad and then by me, but everyone should get the gist.

    The most interesting part to me was that they are inviting over 60s in parts of London already to keep the numbers up and they've been allowed to make that decision locally rather than wait for a national announcement. It's the right thing to do of course.

    Right thing to do but also a bit worrying that they can't seem to contact broad swathes of vulnerable/old groups.

    I had some training this morning, the training provider's mum finally realised how serious the situation was when a hard hitting see your family at xmas/bury them in the new year bit of news/propaganda was put forward in the Daily Mail despite her daughter (The lady on the call with me) telling her for ages.
    We might all be tuning out from the unrelenting news on this but as with politics it needs repeating over and over and over.
    Glad you Dad has had a vax.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    MaxPB said:

    My dad just got his first jab, AZ in case anyone is wondering. Had it done by a friendly and informative doctor.

    His questions to the doctor with answers:

    Q: When will I get my next dose?
    A: In around 12 weeks, look out for our text it will be done in the same centre.

    Q: Will that be moved forwards?
    A: No, for this vaccine the NHS recommendation is for a 12 week gap to ensure best protection.

    Q: Why did I get the text, I'm only 67?
    A: We're finding it really difficult to get any takers in this area by easy contact methods so we're contacting everyone aged 60 and up to ensure we don't waste doses or have them sitting in the fridge unused, the decision was taken locally.

    Q: How many do you get through per day?
    A: Around 800-1000 depending on supply and appointments.

    Those are paraphrased by my dad and then by me, but everyone should get the gist.

    The most interesting part to me was that they are inviting over 60s in parts of London already to keep the numbers up and they've been allowed to make that decision locally rather than wait for a national announcement. It's the right thing to do of course.

    That's fantastic. That he's had the first jab.

    When I booked my mother's second jab the person made a point of telling me that the first second dose (!) had been cancelled because they were waiting 12 weeks between jabs now and then promptly booked her in nine weeks after the first one.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,217
    HYUFD said:

    The distancing from Trump lasted all of 5 minutes.
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1354056259423580162?s=21

    Apparently there is a poll out there showing a MAGA party would push the Republicans into third nationally.

    Every argument advanced by the never Trump republicans like the Lincoln Project, as well as many on here, does not hold water.
    There is.

    It had the Democrats on 46%, a Trumpite Patriots Party on 23% and the GOP on just 17% if such a Patriots Party was formed by Trump. Very conservative voters would vote 55% Patriots to just 24% GOP.

    https://twitter.com/DaveAtherton20/status/1353983112628359168?s=20

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/shock-poll-trump-patriot-party-would-win-almost-quarter-voters-drop-gop

    In such a nightmare scenario for the GOP they may as well go the whole hog and support PR for Congress
    "Donald Trump's Patriot Party".

    Lord, take me now.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,444
    TOPPING said:

    I really, really hope EU governments and the UK are working together at a high level to remove bottlenecks in the supply chain of the vaccines for AZ and Pfizer, if they are not already doing so.

    Not just in the raw materials for the vaccine itself but componentry, sterility services, and maintenance, which includes human capital.

    We need to move everything from where it is to where it needs to go as quickly as possible.

    If a bottleneck is identified there should be high-level buy-in to remove it.

    It really should being treated like a war. This is not simply a case of two private companies making their product as normal.

    Oh, it's being treated as a war alright. By the EU.
    We appreciate that there is a certain demographic that likes this narrative.

    And for ease of reference let's call this demographic "Little Englanders".
    Comparing it to a war is ridiculous hyperbole, of course, but it is nonetheless true that EU behaviour towards the UK, in the last week or two, has gone from the usual rivalry and banter to something more obviously hostile.

    The EU is embarrassed by its vaccine failure, EU citizens are beginning to notice the slowness of their roll-out, compared to the UK, USA, UAE etc. Given that the vaccines are often produced in the EU, this is very awkward for the Commission and EU govts. Von Der Leyen was asked if she was going to resign the other day, by an EU journo.

    So they choose to stoke up a blame Britain/British companies narrative, and an EU v UK plotline, to distract from their errors. It's the kind of thing populist/irresponsible politicians do in many countries - you can imagine Trump doing it. Or Farage. But this time it is Brussels.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    My dad just got his first jab, AZ in case anyone is wondering. Had it done by a friendly and informative doctor.

    His questions to the doctor with answers:

    Q: When will I get my next dose?
    A: In around 12 weeks, look out for our text it will be done in the same centre.

    Q: Will that be moved forwards?
    A: No, for this vaccine the NHS recommendation is for a 12 week gap to ensure best protection.

    Q: Why did I get the text, I'm only 67?
    A: We're finding it really difficult to get any takers in this area by easy contact methods so we're contacting everyone aged 60 and up to ensure we don't waste doses or have them sitting in the fridge unused, the decision was taken locally.

    Q: How many do you get through per day?
    A: Around 800-1000 depending on supply and appointments.

    Those are paraphrased by my dad and then by me, but everyone should get the gist.

    The most interesting part to me was that they are inviting over 60s in parts of London already to keep the numbers up and they've been allowed to make that decision locally rather than wait for a national announcement. It's the right thing to do of course.

    Right thing to do but also a bit worrying that they can't seem to contact broad swathes of vulnerable/old groups.

    I had some training this morning, the training provider's mum finally realised how serious the situation was when a hard hitting see your family at xmas/bury them in the new year bit of news/propaganda was put forward in the Daily Mail despite her daughter (The lady on the call with me) telling her for ages.
    We might all be tuning out from the unrelenting news on this but as with politics it needs repeating over and over and over.
    Glad you Dad has had a vax.
    It's not that they can't reach them, they have phone numbers and email addresses but just no takers, at least going by what my dad said. I'd love to see what the response rate differential is across the country. I think the people who don't respond to texts will eventually get door knocks and explanations as to why this is a good idea and an appointment to get it done at a mosque/church/temple.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Does the UK have J&J doses? How many and on what timescale?
    30m initial order, priority delivery timescale (starting in April), 22m option for H2 delivery.
    *EU eyes look on, enviously....*
    The generous, outward looking "Spirit of Leave".

    Proving once more that Brexit was not driven by xenophobic, Little Englander antipathy towards the continent, but by a rational and mature realization that the UK was not a good fit in an ever more integrated European Union.
    Absolutely. 100%.

    The one thing the EU got directly involved in was vaccines and as a result they have shown itself to be a bureaucratic, shambling and dare I say sclerotic mess.

    The UK has shown itself to be innovative, quick and dare I say nimble in achieving better results - with contracts signed three months earlier and a rollout that is working.

    Germany and other nations had contracts ready to sign in June. Because of the EU interference they weren't signed for another couple of months causing needless delay resulting in what we see today.

    A perfect realisation that demonstrates exactly what some of us have said here.
    So we seem to be doing better on something than the EU. Has to happen sometimes. Law of averages. But please get back to my 12.47 post. It's important and lying there unanswered. Until it is - and you really ought to be able to - you stand exposed as somebody who only likes Robert Peston when he says things that you like.
    I got back to you. I like knowing the truth. If the truth is unpleasant, I still want to know it. I don't want only sunshine and unicorns - if he reports the truth, even if the truth is horrific - then he is doing a good job as a reporter. It isn't a reporters job to report only things that make us smile.

    If you can post anything well sourced and factual that I have objected to him reporting then you will have a point. But the problem with Peston is its so rare for him to post anything well sourced and factual. He is the proverbial broken clock.
    You didn't. Don't lie to me. The post is at 12.47 and the very simple question therein is unanswered. Conclusions will be drawn if you keep avoiding it and blustering.
    I've answered it three times.

    You're asking me to say when he's reported something factual and well sourced and I've disliked it. I've said that I can't as it's not possible. I like reporting that is factual and well sourced.

    Asking me to find a factual report I dislike is like asking someone to name a child they dislike. It is an absurd suggestion. I like the truth, you're asking the impossible.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited January 2021
    I think that settles the debate. We don't have to discuss the issue ever again.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    Johnson leading the presser? I can only assume the Belgian ambassador has been handed a final note...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited January 2021

    BBC News - Harriet Tubman: Biden moves to put anti-slavery activist on $20 bill
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55808324

    Incoming complaints of "wokeness" in 5,4,3,2...
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    The distancing from Trump lasted all of 5 minutes.
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1354056259423580162?s=21

    Apparently there is a poll out there showing a MAGA party would push the Republicans into third nationally.

    Every argument advanced by the never Trump republicans like the Lincoln Project, as well as many on here, does not hold water.
    There is.

    It had the Democrats on 46%, a Trumpite Patriots Party on 23% and the GOP on just 17% if such a Patriots Party was formed by Trump. Very conservative voters would vote 55% Patriots to just 24% GOP.

    https://twitter.com/DaveAtherton20/status/1353983112628359168?s=20

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/shock-poll-trump-patriot-party-would-win-almost-quarter-voters-drop-gop

    In such a nightmare scenario for the GOP they may as well go the whole hog and support PR for Congress
    The Democrats need to just keep very quiet and watch. There may be the opportunity of a lifetime there.

    I think the GOP would win err... Utah, West Virginia would likely be patriots. Not sure about anywhere else. Wyoming maybe close between Patriots/GOP. The Democrats would dominate though - even if one of Patriots or GOP became relatively dominant over the other.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,217
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.

    Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
    Everyone needs to stop frothing.

    The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.

    What is wrong with everyone?
    So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
    We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.

    I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.

    Everyone just needs to calm down.
    You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?

    A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
    If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, they would have had squirting orgasms of delight.

    The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.

    How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
    No, in the UK people who publish lies in newspapers become Prime Minister.
    Whataboutery of the first water,

    FFS this is a lie - sorry "journalistic error" - on a cosmic level; the 8% meme is now out there, and it will possibly cause deaths.

    To make it worse, Handelsblatt were told last night be multiple experts - virologists, epidemiologists, everyone - that the "8% thing" was almost certainly wrong, damaging and dangerous, and should be immediately retracted. Did they? No. They doubled down.

    It was still on their website just an hour ago.
    In a spirit of genuine intellectual curiosity rather than whataboutery -

    Do we think this will cost more lives than the Cummings scandal?
  • MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    My dad just got his first jab, AZ in case anyone is wondering. Had it done by a friendly and informative doctor.

    His questions to the doctor with answers:

    Q: When will I get my next dose?
    A: In around 12 weeks, look out for our text it will be done in the same centre.

    Q: Will that be moved forwards?
    A: No, for this vaccine the NHS recommendation is for a 12 week gap to ensure best protection.

    Q: Why did I get the text, I'm only 67?
    A: We're finding it really difficult to get any takers in this area by easy contact methods so we're contacting everyone aged 60 and up to ensure we don't waste doses or have them sitting in the fridge unused, the decision was taken locally.

    Q: How many do you get through per day?
    A: Around 800-1000 depending on supply and appointments.

    Those are paraphrased by my dad and then by me, but everyone should get the gist.

    The most interesting part to me was that they are inviting over 60s in parts of London already to keep the numbers up and they've been allowed to make that decision locally rather than wait for a national announcement. It's the right thing to do of course.

    Right thing to do but also a bit worrying that they can't seem to contact broad swathes of vulnerable/old groups.

    I had some training this morning, the training provider's mum finally realised how serious the situation was when a hard hitting see your family at xmas/bury them in the new year bit of news/propaganda was put forward in the Daily Mail despite her daughter (The lady on the call with me) telling her for ages.
    We might all be tuning out from the unrelenting news on this but as with politics it needs repeating over and over and over.
    Glad you Dad has had a vax.
    It's not that they can't reach them, they have phone numbers and email addresses but just no takers, at least going by what my dad said. I'd love to see what the response rate differential is across the country. I think the people who don't respond to texts will eventually get door knocks and explanations as to why this is a good idea and an appointment to get it done at a mosque/church/temple.
    I wonder what percentage of the ~20% of over 80s yet to have their jab is because they turned it down?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Andy_JS said:

    “UK minister tells EU to avoid vaccine nationalism
    Nadhim Zahawi calls for co-operation over supply problems“

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/warn-us-before-covid-vaccines-go-to-britain-eu-tells-pfizer-0mxxv3xbj

    The UK is leading on vaccine nationalism, as with so much else...

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1354051617566429192

    (Actually I agree with Zahawi)
  • New campaign hobby horse...Tories winning under FPTP is undemocratic, so we need to have a new system. I don't think he was very happy that other direct democratic system based on a pure majority that led to Brexit either.

    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1353847990788698112?s=19

    Femi making arguments against it from the left is no different to Tories demanding redistricted constituencies from the right. Until a new electoral system is created which counts all votes equally it doesn't matter which party is in power, or you support, or how the boundary is drawn.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    The distancing from Trump lasted all of 5 minutes.
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1354056259423580162?s=21

    Apparently there is a poll out there showing a MAGA party would push the Republicans into third nationally.

    Every argument advanced by the never Trump republicans like the Lincoln Project, as well as many on here, does not hold water.
    There is.

    It had the Democrats on 46%, a Trumpite Patriots Party on 23% and the GOP on just 17% if such a Patriots Party was formed by Trump. Very conservative voters would vote 55% Patriots to just 24% GOP.

    https://twitter.com/DaveAtherton20/status/1353983112628359168?s=20

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/shock-poll-trump-patriot-party-would-win-almost-quarter-voters-drop-gop

    In such a nightmare scenario for the GOP they may as well go the whole hog and support PR for Congress
    "Donald Trump's Patriot Party".

    Lord, take me now.
    Trump is the Republican party's Farage issue.

    But its worse than that as Farage has 5-10% of the vote and it seems Trump has 20%+ at the moment.

    The Republican party are going to have to find a way to silence him and his clan while trying to get someone they can vaguely control in front of those voters. It isn't going to be easy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “UK minister tells EU to avoid vaccine nationalism
    Nadhim Zahawi calls for co-operation over supply problems“

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/warn-us-before-covid-vaccines-go-to-britain-eu-tells-pfizer-0mxxv3xbj

    The UK is leading on vaccine nationalism, as with so much else...

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1354051617566429192

    (Actually I agree with Zahawi)
    The UK got there fair and square. Now the EU are threatening to block exports because they've ballsed up their approach so much.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,363

    BBC News - Harriet Tubman: Biden moves to put anti-slavery activist on $20 bill
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55808324

    I'm trying to imagine Harriet Tubman's reaction to Ted Cruz. I am going for -

    1) Shoot him twice
    2) Pray to god for forgiveness for shooting Ted Cruz
    3) Get up and shoot him twice more.
    Forgot that it is Andrew Jackson on the $20

    Tubman vs Jackson

    Who would win?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I really, really hope EU governments and the UK are working together at a high level to remove bottlenecks in the supply chain of the vaccines for AZ and Pfizer, if they are not already doing so.

    Not just in the raw materials for the vaccine itself but componentry, sterility services, and maintenance, which includes human capital.

    We need to move everything from where it is to where it needs to go as quickly as possible.

    If a bottleneck is identified there should be high-level buy-in to remove it.

    It really should being treated like a war. This is not simply a case of two private companies making their product as normal.

    Oh, it's being treated as a war alright. By the EU.
    We appreciate that there is a certain demographic that likes this narrative.

    And for ease of reference let's call this demographic "Little Englanders".
    Comparing it to a war is ridiculous hyperbole, of course, but it is nonetheless true that EU behaviour towards the UK, in the last week or two, has gone from the usual rivalry and banter to something more obviously hostile.

    The EU is embarrassed by its vaccine failure, EU citizens are beginning to notice the slowness of their roll-out, compared to the UK, USA, UAE etc. Given that the vaccines are often produced in the EU, this is very awkward for the Commission and EU govts. Von Der Leyen was asked if she was going to resign the other day, by an EU journo.

    So they choose to stoke up a blame Britain/British companies narrative, and an EU v UK plotline, to distract from their errors. It's the kind of thing populist/irresponsible politicians do in many countries - you can imagine Trump doing it. Or Farage. But this time it is Brussels.

    As I said we are in a pandemic and therefore everything is exacerbated.

    However, I really don't know how they are responding. I know that people on here are assuming that they are doing the things you write, plus there are newspaper reports about it but unlike, say, @BIg_G I haven't been watching Euronews all day, nor do I have friend(s) who work for German newspapers, so I don't really know what they are saying or whether such reports are credible.

    I did read Kyriakides' statement which made me none the wiser as to any particular narrative.

    Here read it yourself. This is apparently the statement mooting a vaccine export ban.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/speech_21_211
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BBC:

    "Jessica Gold, from London ... flew out to South Africa, where she owns a safari lodge in Greater Kruger National Park, at the end of November. Her son and mother then joined her for Christmas."

    Suck it up.

    Don't see why she can't continue to live out in South Africa tbh - that's where her business is located.
    Their case numbers are better than the U.K. at the moment, and if she has a safari lodge she shouldn’t find it too difficult to isolate herself somewhat from the rest of the world.

    Pop:60m

    SA's case number decline is hugely encouraging IMHO
  • malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:
    Carlotta wanted and tried to only show it up as Scotland and SNPBAD rather than the good news story it really is. Pretty shabby but normal for her.
    It looks likely that any Unionist campaign is going to be primarily based on 'Scotland, you're a basket case and we despise you but we're willing to keep on shouldering the burden of supporting you parasites'. I genuinely can't tell if that is their plan or they're just incapable of framing their relationship with Scotland any other way.

    Still, blue envelopes.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,363
    RobD said:

    Johnson leading the presser? I can only assume the Belgian ambassador has been handed a final note...

    We should really hand the note to the German Ambassador.

    Tradition and all that.

    Mind you, perhaps there is a stamp they use for the note?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4a7BrhlMTg
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Yes, but what does 33% mean?
  • FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “UK minister tells EU to avoid vaccine nationalism
    Nadhim Zahawi calls for co-operation over supply problems“

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/warn-us-before-covid-vaccines-go-to-britain-eu-tells-pfizer-0mxxv3xbj

    The UK is leading on vaccine nationalism, as with so much else...

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1354051617566429192

    (Actually I agree with Zahawi)
    Nice of the Daily Mirror hack to highlight how well the UK is doing....
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:

    The distancing from Trump lasted all of 5 minutes.
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1354056259423580162?s=21

    Apparently there is a poll out there showing a MAGA party would push the Republicans into third nationally.

    Every argument advanced by the never Trump republicans like the Lincoln Project, as well as many on here, does not hold water.
    There is.

    It had the Democrats on 46%, a Trumpite Patriots Party on 23% and the GOP on just 17% if such a Patriots Party was formed by Trump. Very conservative voters would vote 55% Patriots to just 24% GOP.

    https://twitter.com/DaveAtherton20/status/1353983112628359168?s=20

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/shock-poll-trump-patriot-party-would-win-almost-quarter-voters-drop-gop

    In such a nightmare scenario for the GOP they may as well go the whole hog and support PR for Congress
    The non-Trump republicans are not far off America's liberal democrats.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,424
    MaxPB said:

    The most interesting part to me was that they are inviting over 60s in parts of London already to keep the numbers up and they've been allowed to make that decision locally rather than wait for a national announcement. It's the right thing to do of course.

    It is, but it's very patchy. My Dad (mid-70s) received his first dose in one part of London a fortnight ago. My mother (same age) hasn't heard anything in a different part of London.

    This will start to cause real problems if the laggard areas don't sort themselves out. It will mean that we could easily hit the numerical target by mid-February, but still have lots of vulnerable people not vaccinated. And it will mean that finishing the vaccination campaign as a whole will be dependent on the slowest areas.
  • kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.

    Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
    Everyone needs to stop frothing.

    The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.

    What is wrong with everyone?
    So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
    We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.

    I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.

    Everyone just needs to calm down.
    You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?

    A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
    If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, they would have had squirting orgasms of delight.

    The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.

    How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
    No, in the UK people who publish lies in newspapers become Prime Minister.
    Whataboutery of the first water,

    FFS this is a lie - sorry "journalistic error" - on a cosmic level; the 8% meme is now out there, and it will possibly cause deaths.

    To make it worse, Handelsblatt were told last night be multiple experts - virologists, epidemiologists, everyone - that the "8% thing" was almost certainly wrong, damaging and dangerous, and should be immediately retracted. Did they? No. They doubled down.

    It was still on their website just an hour ago.
    In a spirit of genuine intellectual curiosity rather than whataboutery -

    Do we think this will cost more lives than the Cummings scandal?
    Obviously.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    edited January 2021
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:
    A half-baked announcement. Only covring a handful of countries. Full of apologetic wibble. Then next week when a new variant pops up in Dubai or Canada, he'll be dragged in to doing the right thing.

    Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
    Why the hell should people quarantine if they're coming from New Zealand or Taiwan?

    Priti's solution to any problem is to close borders. She's only trying to cover up her department's failure at enforcing the regulations we already have. Just like Hancock, who can't explain why we still don't have a Taiwanese-style tracing regime a year after they set theirs up.
    Or what we could do is work with these countries to create a global standard and baseline for what border quarantine measures should be and once our own virus levels have dropped to almost nothing through a combination of lockdown, vaccines and tough border controls we can selectively open them to countries which have the same measures in place and the same low virus levels.
    Indeed. But we need to work with a white list of countries, not a black list as some are suggesting.
    We could do that too. And we need vaccine certificates - there's no reason to quarantine someone who has been vaccinated. But mindlessly and indiscriminately blocking borders is an option that the government has, quite rightly rejected, at least for the moment. I'm just surprised it's such a popular option on here - usually this is a more thoughtful site.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    HYUFD said:

    The distancing from Trump lasted all of 5 minutes.
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1354056259423580162?s=21

    Apparently there is a poll out there showing a MAGA party would push the Republicans into third nationally.

    Every argument advanced by the never Trump republicans like the Lincoln Project, as well as many on here, does not hold water.
    There is.

    It had the Democrats on 46%, a Trumpite Patriots Party on 23% and the GOP on just 17% if such a Patriots Party was formed by Trump. Very conservative voters would vote 55% Patriots to just 24% GOP.

    https://twitter.com/DaveAtherton20/status/1353983112628359168?s=20

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/shock-poll-trump-patriot-party-would-win-almost-quarter-voters-drop-gop

    In such a nightmare scenario for the GOP they may as well go the whole hog and support PR for Congress
    What was the high watermark for the proposed Independent Labour/Stop Brexit party, when we were all wondering if Labour would ever split in two? I think it may have been about the figures in that poll. I suspect in reality it wouldn't do nearly as well, and Trump's name attachment will fade naturally over the next few years.

    Also, they're explicitly asking about the the 2024 White House race. I'd have to assume that some rando Trumpy standing for Congress wouldn't do nearly as well (on average).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    BBC News - Harriet Tubman: Biden moves to put anti-slavery activist on $20 bill
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55808324

    I'm trying to imagine Harriet Tubman's reaction to Ted Cruz. I am going for -

    1) Shoot him twice
    2) Pray to god for forgiveness for shooting Ted Cruz
    3) Get up and shoot him twice more.
    Forgot that it is Andrew Jackson on the $20

    Tubman vs Jackson

    Who would win?
    I’m just disappointed he didn’t go with Sojourner Truth. That way every time you wanted to get twenty bucks you could say ‘give me a Truth.’

    Imagine what you could say to Donald Trump with such a chance...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:
    A half-baked announcement. Only covring a handful of countries. Full of apologetic wibble. Then next week when a new variant pops up in Dubai or Canada, he'll be dragged in to doing the right thing.

    Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
    Why the hell should people quarantine if they're coming from New Zealand or Taiwan?

    Priti's solution to any problem is to close borders. She's only trying to cover up her department's failure at enforcing the regulations we already have. Just like Hancock, who can't explain why we still don't have a Taiwanese-style tracing regime a year after they set theirs up.
    Or what we could do is work with these countries to create a global standard and baseline for what border quarantine measures should be and once our own virus levels have dropped to almost nothing through a combination of lockdown, vaccines and tough border controls we can selectively open them to countries which have the same measures in place and the same low virus levels.
    Indeed. But we need to work with a white list of countries, not a black list as some are suggesting.
    We could do that too. And we need vaccine certificates - there's no reason to quarantine someone who has been vaccinated. But mindlessly and indiscriminately blocking borders is an option that the government has, quite rightly rejected, at least for the moment. I'm just surprised it's such a popular option on here - usually this is a more thoughtful site.
    "there's no reason to quarantine someone who has been vaccinated"

    Therefore

    there's no reason to quarantine someone who has tested positive but is asymptomatic.

    Right?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Wow, that's nearly a...,

    Er, a...

    That's a lot!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    MaxPB said:


    The most interesting part to me was that they are inviting over 60s in parts of London already to keep the numbers up and they've been allowed to make that decision locally rather than wait for a national announcement. It's the right thing to do of course.

    Consistent with my Group 4 (Clinically extremely vulnerable) London friend being done two weeks ago.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:
    Carlotta wanted and tried to only show it up as Scotland and SNPBAD rather than the good news story it really is. Pretty shabby but normal for her.
    It looks likely that any Unionist campaign is going to be primarily based on 'Scotland, you're a basket case and we despise you but we're willing to keep on shouldering the burden of supporting you parasites'. I genuinely can't tell if that is their plan or they're just incapable of framing their relationship with Scotland any other way.

    Still, blue envelopes.
    Do you think Anas Sarwar is going to trot out the old SLAB doctrine again, of Scots being genetically incapable of making political decisions?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,095
    edited January 2021
    The government is also planning to publish figures on the take-up of the vaccine by ethnicity from Thursday, following concerns that some black, Asian and ethnic minority communities were more hesitant to get the jab.

    BBC News - Covid-19: Vaccine minister 'confident' of supplies amid production delays
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55808266
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:
    A half-baked announcement. Only covring a handful of countries. Full of apologetic wibble. Then next week when a new variant pops up in Dubai or Canada, he'll be dragged in to doing the right thing.

    Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
    Why the hell should people quarantine if they're coming from New Zealand or Taiwan?

    Priti's solution to any problem is to close borders. She's only trying to cover up her department's failure at enforcing the regulations we already have. Just like Hancock, who can't explain why we still don't have a Taiwanese-style tracing regime a year after they set theirs up.
    Or what we could do is work with these countries to create a global standard and baseline for what border quarantine measures should be and once our own virus levels have dropped to almost nothing through a combination of lockdown, vaccines and tough border controls we can selectively open them to countries which have the same measures in place and the same low virus levels.
    Indeed. But we need to work with a white list of countries, not a black list as some are suggesting.
    We could do that too. And we need vaccine certificates - there's no reason to quarantine someone who has been vaccinated. But mindlessly and indiscriminately blocking borders is an option that the government has, quite rightly rejected, at least for the moment. I'm just surprised it's such a popular option on here - usually this is a more thoughtful site.
    "there's no reason to quarantine someone who has been vaccinated"

    Therefore

    there's no reason to quarantine someone who has tested positive but is asymptomatic.

    Right?
    I think that's why I'd still go down the pre-flight test and whitelist countries that have got similarly tough border measures and resulting low infection rates. At least until such time as vaccine penetration is much higher across the world.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    Completely off topic but an interest read on why we have migrant workers doing fruit picking and similar jobs

    https://twitter.com/sarahoconnor_/status/1354000132564516864

    Simply put it's not the job it used to be as the minimum wage means it's not possible to just use slow labour.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    The distancing from Trump lasted all of 5 minutes.
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1354056259423580162?s=21

    Apparently there is a poll out there showing a MAGA party would push the Republicans into third nationally.

    Every argument advanced by the never Trump republicans like the Lincoln Project, as well as many on here, does not hold water.
    There is.

    It had the Democrats on 46%, a Trumpite Patriots Party on 23% and the GOP on just 17% if such a Patriots Party was formed by Trump. Very conservative voters would vote 55% Patriots to just 24% GOP.

    https://twitter.com/DaveAtherton20/status/1353983112628359168?s=20

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/shock-poll-trump-patriot-party-would-win-almost-quarter-voters-drop-gop

    In such a nightmare scenario for the GOP they may as well go the whole hog and support PR for Congress
    The Democrats need to just keep very quiet and watch. There may be the opportunity of a lifetime there.

    I think the GOP would win err... Utah, West Virginia would likely be patriots. Not sure about anywhere else. Wyoming maybe close between Patriots/GOP. The Democrats would dominate though - even if one of Patriots or GOP became relatively dominant over the other.
    I think we'd see a Senate with over 70 Democrats. Perhaps close to 80. Hard to think of anywhere outside of the Deep South and the northern states of the Mountain West where the GOP or Patriots would win in a state-wide election.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited January 2021
    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:
    Carlotta wanted and tried to only show it up as Scotland and SNPBAD rather than the good news story it really is. Pretty shabby but normal for her.
    Not at all, both are great examples of, how shall we say, being "Better Together"!

    It's not me who wants too change that!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Germany has a selective education system, which probably doesn't help. Mind you, I wouldn't bet on the UK numbers being that much different. Innumeracy is shockingly widespread. And a lot of innumerate people seem to end up as journalists, in all countries.
  • More than half of those aged 75-79 having now had their first dose.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Germany has a selective education system, which probably doesn't help. Mind you, I wouldn't bet on the UK numbers being that much different. Innumeracy is shockingly widespread. And a lot of innumerate people seem to end up as journalists, in all countries.
    I think that is pretty much my point. Innumeracy is a global phenomenon.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    The distancing from Trump lasted all of 5 minutes.
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1354056259423580162?s=21

    I'll put him down as a "maybe"

    But he's a Florida senator up for re-election in 2022 and Ivanka has her eyes on his seat.
    I would think he had more chance in Florida than Ivanka does.

    It was a very well organised Hispanic campaign (that he has a lot to do with) that really saved Florida for the GOP this year. If they toss him out for Ivanka - and if the Democrats are smart enough to choose a smart, moderate Hispanic candidate - then I'd make the Democrats favourites to gain that seat.
    Oh I know but as @contrarian points out below - the Republicans are often winning seats because their are getting MAGA supporters votes.

    Remove those votes by Trump / MAGA standing as 3rd party candidates and the Republicans have a real problem.

    Heck even Trump telling his supporters not to vote until election day cost him the election.
    Trump getting MAGA votes is like Corbyn getting Momentum votes.

    Yes he may have a hardcore following - but it is a losing hardcore following.

    Do you want to stick with the cranks and lose, or cut them adrift and win?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:
    A half-baked announcement. Only covring a handful of countries. Full of apologetic wibble. Then next week when a new variant pops up in Dubai or Canada, he'll be dragged in to doing the right thing.

    Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
    Why the hell should people quarantine if they're coming from New Zealand or Taiwan?

    Priti's solution to any problem is to close borders. She's only trying to cover up her department's failure at enforcing the regulations we already have. Just like Hancock, who can't explain why we still don't have a Taiwanese-style tracing regime a year after they set theirs up.
    Or what we could do is work with these countries to create a global standard and baseline for what border quarantine measures should be and once our own virus levels have dropped to almost nothing through a combination of lockdown, vaccines and tough border controls we can selectively open them to countries which have the same measures in place and the same low virus levels.
    Indeed. But we need to work with a white list of countries, not a black list as some are suggesting.
    We could do that too. And we need vaccine certificates - there's no reason to quarantine someone who has been vaccinated. But mindlessly and indiscriminately blocking borders is an option that the government has, quite rightly rejected, at least for the moment. I'm just surprised it's such a popular option on here - usually this is a more thoughtful site.
    "there's no reason to quarantine someone who has been vaccinated"

    Therefore

    there's no reason to quarantine someone who has tested positive but is asymptomatic.

    Right?
    I think that's why I'd still go down the pre-flight test and whitelist countries that have got similarly tough border measures and resulting low infection rates. At least until such time as vaccine penetration is much higher across the world.
    A plane arrives in London, some passengers from New Zealand, some from India.

    Which do you quarantine. Oh, they all transited Dubai.....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882
    eek said:

    Completely off topic but an interest read on why we have migrant workers doing fruit picking and similar jobs

    https://twitter.com/sarahoconnor_/status/1354000132564516864

    Simply put it's not the job it used to be as the minimum wage means it's not possible to just use slow labour.

    Definitely worth a read, thanks. This is also interesting

    https://twitter.com/sarahoconnor_/status/1354010616701313025
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,363

    More than half of those aged 75-79 having now had their first dose.

    I checked further - apparently the local GP is running out of wrinkles..... they are doing all the medically vulnerable on their books this coming weekend as well.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,217
    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farage is beside himself.

    He told you so. He really did.

    Surely you think this is all a load of nonsense because it's no worse than a bad cold and we should all get back to normal?
    Tell you what. I will admit covid is a serious issue.

    But then you have to admit that lockdowns have devastating consequences. On children. On young people. On people in poverty. On jobs and the economy. on mental health. On the fabric of society. On human rights. Its eminently clear today.

    I at least have tried to have a debate about whether lockdowns are worth it and whether the extent to which the young are being sacrificed is worth it.

    All you and others like you have tried to do is shut down debate.
    It's a non-debate in terms of the big picture. Every single thing you mention would have been worse with no lockdown. There is no "cost of lockdown" because it was not an either/or choice. Or the cost is negative if you like. It's large and negative.

    The valid debate has been - still is - around the details of the restrictions. The timing. The scope. Border control. The balance between trust and law. The extent to which it should be policed. All of this.

    You have shown not the slightest interest in having a debate like that. All you've done on this whole topic since the virus emerged is spread lies and write fatuously pretentious faux "man of the world" drivel.
    More correctly, the debate should not be about lockdown or not, but about what level of non-medical interventions (social distancing, hand and respiratory hygiene, PPE) is required to minimize the net impact of the outbreak. And that has to include consideration of all the issues Contrarian lists.

    It so happens, lockdowns seem to be about the most socially doable mechanism. It need not have been the only option, or even the best one. For example, we could all have agreed to wear full PPE (full Tyvek body suit, booties, gloves, hood, N95, goggles, face shield - assuming no shortages), and gone about our normal business (except eating and drinking in public) and learnt how to don and doff our PPE correctly and decontaminate at the appropriate points in our activities.

    There may well have been a better optimal mix of policies. Unfortunately, we'll never know, because this is not an experiment that can be re-run. And no, the UK's experience cannot really be directly compared with that of other nations because a pandemic is a complex adaptive system, a type of system which is extremely sensitive to initial states and inputs - i.e. where outcomes vary massively based on changes of initial state and input below the level at which measurements can be made. I think that drawing any inference from international comparisons is fraught, other than
    1. timing is important, and
    2. level of compliance with government guidelines/rules is much, much more important for effectiveness than the actual guidelines/rules themselves.
    (1) for sure. As for (2) imo the messaging is more important than the precise legal rules since (least here) it's not aggressively policed. It's about getting the public to do the right thing. Which in turn means communicating a proper understanding of the virus and the risks, plus generating a sense of trust in government.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,095
    edited January 2021
    eek said:

    Completely off topic but an interest read on why we have migrant workers doing fruit picking and similar jobs

    https://twitter.com/sarahoconnor_/status/1354000132564516864

    Simply put it's not the job it used to be as the minimum wage means it's not possible to just use slow labour.

    The with fruit picking, the way the system is now set up, you also have to be willing and able to go and live in a caravan miles from anywhere with a load of people and commit to doing that for months on end. If you have kids or a partner in other employment, that automatically rules you out.

    And that is before you think about are you willing to commit to shared living and little social life, all for minimum wage.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    DougSeal said:

    BBC News - Harriet Tubman: Biden moves to put anti-slavery activist on $20 bill
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55808324

    Incoming complaints of "wokeness" in 5,4,3,2...
    Actually you're the first one to comment.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:
    A half-baked announcement. Only covring a handful of countries. Full of apologetic wibble. Then next week when a new variant pops up in Dubai or Canada, he'll be dragged in to doing the right thing.

    Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
    Why the hell should people quarantine if they're coming from New Zealand or Taiwan?

    Priti's solution to any problem is to close borders. She's only trying to cover up her department's failure at enforcing the regulations we already have. Just like Hancock, who can't explain why we still don't have a Taiwanese-style tracing regime a year after they set theirs up.
    Or what we could do is work with these countries to create a global standard and baseline for what border quarantine measures should be and once our own virus levels have dropped to almost nothing through a combination of lockdown, vaccines and tough border controls we can selectively open them to countries which have the same measures in place and the same low virus levels.
    Indeed. But we need to work with a white list of countries, not a black list as some are suggesting.
    We could do that too. And we need vaccine certificates - there's no reason to quarantine someone who has been vaccinated. But mindlessly and indiscriminately blocking borders is an option that the government has, quite rightly rejected, at least for the moment. I'm just surprised it's such a popular option on here - usually this is a more thoughtful site.
    "there's no reason to quarantine someone who has been vaccinated"

    Therefore

    there's no reason to quarantine someone who has tested positive but is asymptomatic.

    Right?
    I think that's why I'd still go down the pre-flight test and whitelist countries that have got similarly tough border measures and resulting low infection rates. At least until such time as vaccine penetration is much higher across the world.
    A plane arrives in London, some passengers from New Zealand, some from India.

    Which do you quarantine. Oh, they all transited Dubai.....
    You'd simply ban transit passengers and let the market figure out the mechanics of flying ultra long haul.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,697
    edited January 2021
    algarkirk said:

    Rough times for One Nation politics and politicians. Massive opportunity for a political genius, Labour being the only national party with space and opportunity for political genius at this precise moment. If we ever needed a new Blair it is now.
    Blair wasn't the kind of political genius who could operate successfully within a country that was split down the middle. What Labour needs is a Thatcher. ;)
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Endillion said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Wow, that's nearly a...,

    Er, a...

    That's a lot!

    Follow up question, how many of the 1000 got it wrong ... :cold_sweat:
  • TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Germany has a selective education system, which probably doesn't help. Mind you, I wouldn't bet on the UK numbers being that much different. Innumeracy is shockingly widespread. And a lot of innumerate people seem to end up as journalists, in all countries.
    It's strange the German newspaper got essentially a comprehension, not numeracy, question wrong.

    There is plenty of difficult maths in establishing efficacy - plenty of potential errors it is easy to make - but confusing the % of people in a category with efficacy for that category is not one of them - if that is indeed what they did.
  • I've just read an article about the growing role of TikTok for brand influencers. So I have downloaded TikTok for the first time.

    Its like crack for morons.

    I am hooked :D
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,128

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Germany has a selective education system, which probably doesn't help. Mind you, I wouldn't bet on the UK numbers being that much different. Innumeracy is shockingly widespread. And a lot of innumerate people seem to end up as journalists, in all countries.
    I doubt it, Germany has one of the most educated populations in the western world
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.

    Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
    Everyone needs to stop frothing.

    The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.

    What is wrong with everyone?
    So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
    We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.

    I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.

    Everyone just needs to calm down.
    You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?

    A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
    If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, they would have had squirting orgasms of delight.

    The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.

    How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
    No, in the UK people who publish lies in newspapers become Prime Minister.
    Whataboutery of the first water,

    FFS this is a lie - sorry "journalistic error" - on a cosmic level; the 8% meme is now out there, and it will possibly cause deaths.

    To make it worse, Handelsblatt were told last night be multiple experts - virologists, epidemiologists, everyone - that the "8% thing" was almost certainly wrong, damaging and dangerous, and should be immediately retracted. Did they? No. They doubled down.

    It was still on their website just an hour ago.
    In a spirit of genuine intellectual curiosity rather than whataboutery -

    Do we think this will cost more lives than the Cummings scandal?
    Since there's not the slightest particle of evidence that even one additional person died as a result of that supposed scandal, the Handelsblatt Affair has every chance of prevailing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,480
    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:
    Carlotta wanted and tried to only show it up as Scotland and SNPBAD rather than the good news story it really is. Pretty shabby but normal for her.
    It is a good news story (obviously not about the outbreak in Cumbernauld) - great to see the home nations helping each other out.
  • I've just read an article about the growing role of TikTok for brand influencers. So I have downloaded TikTok for the first time.

    Its like crack for morons.

    I am hooked :D

    And the Chinese will know everything about you in 30 days...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Germany has a selective education system, which probably doesn't help. Mind you, I wouldn't bet on the UK numbers being that much different. Innumeracy is shockingly widespread. And a lot of innumerate people seem to end up as journalists, in all countries.
    People generally find percentages difficult to deal with. That's why £5 off a hundred pound purchase will pull more people than 10% off
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    The option "To Remain in the EU" doesn't exist in January 2021. Should be "To Join the EU" or "To Remain Outside the EU".

    And then there's the question of what terms the UK would be offered.....
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited January 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Yes, but what does 33% mean?
    18% rounded to the nearest third to 2 decimal places.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    TimT said:

    Endillion said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Wow, that's nearly a...,

    Er, a...

    That's a lot!

    Follow up question, how many of the 1000 got it wrong ... :cold_sweat:
    I just crunched the numbers on my calculator and it said 40,000.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Yes, but what does 33% mean?
    18% rounded to the nearest third to 2 decimal places.
    I would have said "significant figures"...
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    FF43 said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Germany has a selective education system, which probably doesn't help. Mind you, I wouldn't bet on the UK numbers being that much different. Innumeracy is shockingly widespread. And a lot of innumerate people seem to end up as journalists, in all countries.
    People generally find percentages difficult to deal with. That's why £5 off a hundred pound purchase will pull more people than 10% off
    That is pretty much the conclusion of Gigerenzer's book, which is well worth a read - avoid percentages and work with absolute numbers.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    I've just read an article about the growing role of TikTok for brand influencers. So I have downloaded TikTok for the first time.

    Its like crack for morons.

    I am hooked :D

    And the Chinese will know everything about you in 30 days...
    Assuming he uses Zoom there's not much more to know.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,128
    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    The distancing from Trump lasted all of 5 minutes.
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1354056259423580162?s=21

    Apparently there is a poll out there showing a MAGA party would push the Republicans into third nationally.

    Every argument advanced by the never Trump republicans like the Lincoln Project, as well as many on here, does not hold water.
    There is.

    It had the Democrats on 46%, a Trumpite Patriots Party on 23% and the GOP on just 17% if such a Patriots Party was formed by Trump. Very conservative voters would vote 55% Patriots to just 24% GOP.

    https://twitter.com/DaveAtherton20/status/1353983112628359168?s=20

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/shock-poll-trump-patriot-party-would-win-almost-quarter-voters-drop-gop

    In such a nightmare scenario for the GOP they may as well go the whole hog and support PR for Congress
    "Donald Trump's Patriot Party".

    Lord, take me now.
    Trump is the Republican party's Farage issue.

    But its worse than that as Farage has 5-10% of the vote and it seems Trump has 20%+ at the moment.

    The Republican party are going to have to find a way to silence him and his clan while trying to get someone they can vaguely control in front of those voters. It isn't going to be easy.
    Of course in the dying days of the May regime one poll had the Tories on just 17% and the Brexit Party on 26% so not much different to the US numbers.

    https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/political-polling-31st-may-2019/

    What is clear is that the Tories could not win without their Brexit wing and the GOP cannot win withouts its Trumper wing and at the moment the Brexit wing of the Tories is bigger than the Tory establishment wing and similarly the Trump wing of the GOP is bigger than the GOP establishment wing.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Germany has a selective education system, which probably doesn't help. Mind you, I wouldn't bet on the UK numbers being that much different. Innumeracy is shockingly widespread. And a lot of innumerate people seem to end up as journalists, in all countries.
    It's strange the German newspaper got essentially a comprehension, not numeracy, question wrong.

    There is plenty of difficult maths in establishing efficacy - plenty of potential errors it is easy to make - but confusing the % of people in a category with efficacy for that category is not one of them - if that is indeed what they did.
    It is almost impossible to believe that that was really the source of the error. Right now I suspect there is more to it, somewhere in the murky world of international politics, big pharma, procurement, media and government. Although from what one can gather it seems likely that the story is fundamentally wrong, whatever the source of the mistake.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    My dad just got his first jab, AZ in case anyone is wondering. Had it done by a friendly and informative doctor.

    His questions to the doctor with answers:

    Q: When will I get my next dose?
    A: In around 12 weeks, look out for our text it will be done in the same centre.

    Q: Will that be moved forwards?
    A: No, for this vaccine the NHS recommendation is for a 12 week gap to ensure best protection.

    Q: Why did I get the text, I'm only 67?
    A: We're finding it really difficult to get any takers in this area by easy contact methods so we're contacting everyone aged 60 and up to ensure we don't waste doses or have them sitting in the fridge unused, the decision was taken locally.

    Q: How many do you get through per day?
    A: Around 800-1000 depending on supply and appointments.

    Those are paraphrased by my dad and then by me, but everyone should get the gist.

    The most interesting part to me was that they are inviting over 60s in parts of London already to keep the numbers up and they've been allowed to make that decision locally rather than wait for a national announcement. It's the right thing to do of course.

    Right thing to do but also a bit worrying that they can't seem to contact broad swathes of vulnerable/old groups.

    I had some training this morning, the training provider's mum finally realised how serious the situation was when a hard hitting see your family at xmas/bury them in the new year bit of news/propaganda was put forward in the Daily Mail despite her daughter (The lady on the call with me) telling her for ages.
    We might all be tuning out from the unrelenting news on this but as with politics it needs repeating over and over and over.
    Glad you Dad has had a vax.
    It's not that they can't reach them, they have phone numbers and email addresses but just no takers, at least going by what my dad said. I'd love to see what the response rate differential is across the country. I think the people who don't respond to texts will eventually get door knocks and explanations as to why this is a good idea and an appointment to get it done at a mosque/church/temple.
    My Mum (74, Rutland) just got an SMS for a Thursday appointment for first vaccine. She’ll definitely be taking it!

    Just from anecdotal evidence on here, we can see different places getting down to different levels of the age and vulnerability cohort, differing uptake rates and (needing to be addressed) some people very old and vulnerable who seem to have been missed.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Endillion said:

    TimT said:

    Endillion said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Wow, that's nearly a...,

    Er, a...

    That's a lot!

    Follow up question, how many of the 1000 got it wrong ... :cold_sweat:
    I just crunched the numbers on my calculator and it said 40,000.
    LOL
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,601

    BBC News - Harriet Tubman: Biden moves to put anti-slavery activist on $20 bill
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55808324

    A Royal Navy warship captain?

    No?
  • eek said:

    Completely off topic but an interest read on why we have migrant workers doing fruit picking and similar jobs

    https://twitter.com/sarahoconnor_/status/1354000132564516864

    Simply put it's not the job it used to be as the minimum wage means it's not possible to just use slow labour.

    The with fruit picking, the way the system is now set up, you also have to be willing and able to go and live in a caravan miles from anywhere with a load of people and commit to doing that for months on end. If you have kids or a partner in other employment, that automatically rules you out.

    And that is before you think about are you willing to commit to shared living and little social life, all for minimum wage.
    Let's face it, there's a reason that food is so cheap these days.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,363
    TimT said:

    Endillion said:

    TimT said:

    Endillion said:

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Wow, that's nearly a...,

    Er, a...

    That's a lot!

    Follow up question, how many of the 1000 got it wrong ... :cold_sweat:
    I just crunched the numbers on my calculator and it said 40,000.
    LOL
    Yes - obviously wrong. The answer is "One Fruit Bat"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    eek said:

    Completely off topic but an interest read on why we have migrant workers doing fruit picking and similar jobs

    https://twitter.com/sarahoconnor_/status/1354000132564516864

    Simply put it's not the job it used to be as the minimum wage means it's not possible to just use slow labour.

    That's a really excellent piece.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:
    A half-baked announcement. Only covring a handful of countries. Full of apologetic wibble. Then next week when a new variant pops up in Dubai or Canada, he'll be dragged in to doing the right thing.

    Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
    Why the hell should people quarantine if they're coming from New Zealand or Taiwan?

    Priti's solution to any problem is to close borders. She's only trying to cover up her department's failure at enforcing the regulations we already have. Just like Hancock, who can't explain why we still don't have a Taiwanese-style tracing regime a year after they set theirs up.
    Or what we could do is work with these countries to create a global standard and baseline for what border quarantine measures should be and once our own virus levels have dropped to almost nothing through a combination of lockdown, vaccines and tough border controls we can selectively open them to countries which have the same measures in place and the same low virus levels.
    Indeed. But we need to work with a white list of countries, not a black list as some are suggesting.
    We could do that too. And we need vaccine certificates - there's no reason to quarantine someone who has been vaccinated. But mindlessly and indiscriminately blocking borders is an option that the government has, quite rightly rejected, at least for the moment. I'm just surprised it's such a popular option on here - usually this is a more thoughtful site.
    "there's no reason to quarantine someone who has been vaccinated"

    Therefore

    there's no reason to quarantine someone who has tested positive but is asymptomatic.

    Right?
    I think that's why I'd still go down the pre-flight test and whitelist countries that have got similarly tough border measures and resulting low infection rates. At least until such time as vaccine penetration is much higher across the world.
    A plane arrives in London, some passengers from New Zealand, some from India.

    Which do you quarantine. Oh, they all transited Dubai.....
    Yep, there’s no direct flights from Aus or NZ, they all have to stop somewhere in Asia or Arabia to put more fuel in the plane!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882

    BBC News - Harriet Tubman: Biden moves to put anti-slavery activist on $20 bill
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55808324

    A Royal Navy warship captain?

    No?
    Not US citizen, by definition.
  • A pledge to vaccinate 70% of over-80s by the weekend was missed by the Welsh government.

    Weather has been blamed for why the target was not reached. Latest figures show 96,830 over-80s have received a first dose - that's 52.8% of the group, although there is a lag in the data.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Yes, blaming that legendry German innumeracy.

    File under "Hmmmmmmm......"

    From a German writer on German innumeracy:

    "1000 Germans were asked if 40% means:

    One quarter;
    4 out of 10; or
    Every 40th person.

    About 33% got the answer wrong."

    Source: Calculated risks Gerd Gigerenzer. 2002
    Germany has a selective education system, which probably doesn't help. Mind you, I wouldn't bet on the UK numbers being that much different. Innumeracy is shockingly widespread. And a lot of innumerate people seem to end up as journalists, in all countries.
    It's strange the German newspaper got essentially a comprehension, not numeracy, question wrong.

    There is plenty of difficult maths in establishing efficacy - plenty of potential errors it is easy to make - but confusing the % of people in a category with efficacy for that category is not one of them - if that is indeed what they did.
    The only thing that really makes sense, is some sort of transcription or translation error in the document.

    But you’d have thought the hack, and his head of department, and the editor, would have done a considerable amount of checking before splashing the story on their front page!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    They'll be busted with a group visit to the doughnut shop next.

    https://twitter.com/MargaretDavisPA/status/1354086077875834896
  • Handelsblatt wankers have a live coronavirus update page, full of today's updates. Nothing about "acht prozent", but this about UK

    "More than 100,000 people have died in the UK since the start of the pandemic linked to the coronavirus. After a massive increase in the number of cases related to the new variant B.1.1.7 in December, the country recorded the highest daily Covid death ratein the world. The British Government is accused of repeatedly reacting too late and wrongly to the pandemic. Hospitals are under massive pressure, with more Covid-19 patients being artificially ventilated than at any other time in the pandemic." (google translated)
    https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/international/corona-news-seehofer-prueft-einschraenkung-des-flugverkehrs-auf-nahezu-null-zwei-prozent-der-bundesbuerger-geimpft/25471608.html

    And the tweets are still up.
This discussion has been closed.