I wonder if Hodges and Cohen and many on here, will be as hot on these 'spreaders of disinformation' as they are on Toby Young and JHB.
I know I should have known better, and indeed posted on my scepticism last night about the 8 % nonsense, but I still found it a depressing and slightly worrying few hours. We are in such a disasterous situation that the consequences if it had been true we too awful to think about. I really think whoever is at fault for this needs public shaming and should be made to apologise. As others have said, there is genuine vaccine hesitancy and reluctance. A totally incorrect story like this, however 'well intentioned' (assuming it was), genuinely could claim lives.
I can deal with the innumeracy of the daily ups and downs of cases and deaths (deaths increased today from yesterday and on and on and on...), but this was of a different order. Making a huge claim, without actually getting the facts right? That can have such consequences? Career ending.
pb.com knew it was bollocks.
Believe pb.com and sleep easy.
TBF I did, aside of strange dreams (totally unrelated). I guess I feel the situation is fragile - numbers of cases coming down nicely (while the lockdown is on), vaccination racing ahead (but no obvious impact on cases/hospital/deaths yet). We are moving forward, but god it feels slow.
This story is slowly making its way into the public consciousness and lots of my remain voting friends are starting to notice the EU vaccine export ban. One is saying "see we shouldn't have left" the rest think the idea is absolutely horrible and it's turning them against the EU.
There is no EU vaccine export ban. If you are rightly aggrieved by the German misreporting of the efficacy, why is it ok to misrepresent the EU position on vaccine exports?
Antagonising EU-UK relations further on fake news is just as unhelpful, the EU are considering a reporting requirement, even that does not exist and may or may not be implemented - it is very different to a ban.
It's a comment on the way the story is being reported right now across our media.
Yes but you know it is not true, why spread it for point scoring purposes against an institution we have already left?
It's called listening. Knowing what the non-politically inclined think about an issue means not getting involved in the conversation.
This way leads to Trumpian beliefs. Plenty of people now think there is an EU export ban, and I am being accused of being in denial for saying there is not. There is not an EU export ban, there is a proposal for early notification of exports, which will continue to be allowed.
Not really, the early notice system is being put in place for something. What legitimate reason can you think of for the EU to ask for this information? I can't think of anything.
Here's one off the top of my head. The EU produces 10 of something it needs and finds out that nine of them will be exported.
It then informs its Member States so they can be prepared or ramp up production or take other mitigating action.
Ok, what's the other mitigating action?
Inform the Member States so they can order in more of the thing's ingredients. Or open new thing facilities. Or...
This story is slowly making its way into the public consciousness and lots of my remain voting friends are starting to notice the EU vaccine export ban. One is saying "see we shouldn't have left" the rest think the idea is absolutely horrible and it's turning them against the EU.
There is no EU vaccine export ban. If you are rightly aggrieved by the German misreporting of the efficacy, why is it ok to misrepresent the EU position on vaccine exports?
Antagonising EU-UK relations further on fake news is just as unhelpful, the EU are considering a reporting requirement, even that does not exist and may or may not be implemented - it is very different to a ban.
The headline is. Did you read the linked statement from Kyriakides?
Better still I have been listening to Euro news this morning who confirmed the commission has sent the export ban proposal to all 27 nations
Furthermore, the Irish Minister confirmed it as well saying the EU has to look after it's own citizens
Is it an export ban proposal or is it an export transparency mechanism?
The companies concerned have confidentiality arrangements in the contracts.
The EU themselves signed confidentiality clauses in their contracts.
Now you talk about "transparency"? Pull the other one, this is shit stirring to get away from the fact that the EU screwed up, signed contracts months later than other nations, so aren't at the front of the queue.
Maybe but do you know what an export transparency mechanism is?
Why are you so aggrieved at the EU behaving to protect its interests?
I just Googled "export transparency mechanism", and I have concluded that no-one knows what it is, because the EU literally made it up yesterday.
AstraZeneca has offered to bring forward some deliveries of its COVID-19 vaccine to the European Union while the bloc has asked the British drugmaker if it can divert doses from the UK to make up for a shortfall in supplies, European officials told Reuters.
The EU official involved in the talks also said that the EU had explicitly asked AstraZeneca whether it could divert to the 27-nation bloc doses produced in Britain, at least through March.
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
This story is slowly making its way into the public consciousness and lots of my remain voting friends are starting to notice the EU vaccine export ban. One is saying "see we shouldn't have left" the rest think the idea is absolutely horrible and it's turning them against the EU.
There is no EU vaccine export ban. If you are rightly aggrieved by the German misreporting of the efficacy, why is it ok to misrepresent the EU position on vaccine exports?
Antagonising EU-UK relations further on fake news is just as unhelpful, the EU are considering a reporting requirement, even that does not exist and may or may not be implemented - it is very different to a ban.
The headline is. Did you read the linked statement from Kyriakides?
Better still I have been listening to Euro news this morning who confirmed the commission has sent the export ban proposal to all 27 nations
Furthermore, the Irish Minister confirmed it as well saying the EU has to look after it's own citizens
Is it an export ban proposal or is it an export transparency mechanism?
The companies concerned have confidentiality arrangements in the contracts.
The EU themselves signed confidentiality clauses in their contracts.
Now you talk about "transparency"? Pull the other one, this is shit stirring to get away from the fact that the EU screwed up, signed contracts months later than other nations, so aren't at the front of the queue.
Maybe but do you know what an export transparency mechanism is?
Why are you so aggrieved at the EU behaving to protect its interests?
I just Googled "export transparency mechanism", and I have concluded that no-one knows what it is, because the EU literally made it up yesterday.
It's true! A google search of that term, in quotes, twenty four hours ago would have returned ZERO results. Every single one there now of the 45ish results are from the last 20 hours.
Does the UK have J&J doses? How many and on what timescale?
30m initial order, priority delivery timescale (starting in April), 22m option for H2 delivery.
*EU eyes look on, enviously....*
The generous, outward looking "Spirit of Leave".
Proving once more that Brexit was not driven by xenophobic, Little Englander antipathy towards the continent, but by a rational and mature realization that the UK was not a good fit in an ever more integrated European Union.
Absolutely. 100%.
The one thing the EU got directly involved in was vaccines and as a result they have shown itself to be a bureaucratic, shambling and dare I say sclerotic mess.
The UK has shown itself to be innovative, quick and dare I say nimble in achieving better results - with contracts signed three months earlier and a rollout that is working.
Germany and other nations had contracts ready to sign in June. Because of the EU interference they weren't signed for another couple of months causing needless delay resulting in what we see today.
A perfect realisation that demonstrates exactly what some of us have said here.
So we seem to be doing better on something than the EU. Has to happen sometimes. Law of averages. But please get back to my 12.47 post. It's important and lying there unanswered. Until it is - and you really ought to be able to - you stand exposed as somebody who only likes Robert Peston when he says things that you like.
I got back to you. I like knowing the truth. If the truth is unpleasant, I still want to know it. I don't want only sunshine and unicorns - if he reports the truth, even if the truth is horrific - then he is doing a good job as a reporter. It isn't a reporters job to report only things that make us smile.
If you can post anything well sourced and factual that I have objected to him reporting then you will have a point. But the problem with Peston is its so rare for him to post anything well sourced and factual. He is the proverbial broken clock.
A half-baked announcement. Only covring a handful of countries. Full of apologetic wibble. Then next week when a new variant pops up in Dubai or Canada, he'll be dragged in to doing the right thing.
Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
Sinn Fein explicitly calling for a border poll is a change in stance.
Even the Irish government opposes a border poll within the next 5 years
Hesitate to dip toe in murky waters, but I'd heard opinions that the south wouldn't want to pay for the cost of Northern Ireland.
They will jump at chance of reuniting the whole country and get shedload of EU cash to get NI out of poverty levels and up to EU standards.
Hmm. Not sure I'd be confident of the Poles, Spaniards, Greeks etc signing up for that. But, who knows, you may be right. As I suspect you are on Sturgeon/Salmond...
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?
First Second Total Total 234851 1326 236177 East Of England 29507 43 29550 London 35126 610 35736 Midlands 42216 128 42344 North East And Yorkshire 34359 33 34392 North West 32861 210 33071 South East 34185 243 34428 South West 24938 58 24996
What kind of Daily Hate panic should we have?
Why has it suddenly dropped away?
Ah, having checked, I notice this is a pattern: Sunday/Monday see large falls. Let's hope it is just that
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?
This story is slowly making its way into the public consciousness and lots of my remain voting friends are starting to notice the EU vaccine export ban. One is saying "see we shouldn't have left" the rest think the idea is absolutely horrible and it's turning them against the EU.
There is no EU vaccine export ban. If you are rightly aggrieved by the German misreporting of the efficacy, why is it ok to misrepresent the EU position on vaccine exports?
Antagonising EU-UK relations further on fake news is just as unhelpful, the EU are considering a reporting requirement, even that does not exist and may or may not be implemented - it is very different to a ban.
It's a comment on the way the story is being reported right now across our media.
Yes but you know it is not true, why spread it for point scoring purposes against an institution we have already left?
It's called listening. Knowing what the non-politically inclined think about an issue means not getting involved in the conversation.
This way leads to Trumpian beliefs. Plenty of people now think there is an EU export ban, and I am being accused of being in denial for saying there is not. There is not an EU export ban, there is a proposal for early notification of exports, which will continue to be allowed.
Not really, the early notice system is being put in place for something. What legitimate reason can you think of for the EU to ask for this information? I can't think of anything.
Here's one off the top of my head. The EU produces 10 of something it needs and finds out that nine of them will be exported.
It then informs its Member States so they can be prepared or ramp up production or take other mitigating action.
Ok, what's the other mitigating action?
Inform the Member States so they can order in more of the thing's ingredients. Or open new thing facilities. Or...
Or...
Invade Russia to seize quantities of the Sputnik V?
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
First Second Total Total 234851 1326 236177 East Of England 29507 43 29550 London 35126 610 35736 Midlands 42216 128 42344 North East And Yorkshire 34359 33 34392 North West 32861 210 33071 South East 34185 243 34428 South West 24938 58 24996
What kind of Daily Hate panic should we have?
Why has it suddenly dropped away?
Weekend. These are Sunday's figures.
Over a quarter of a million on a Sunday (once you factor in Scotland etc) is fantastic news.
First Second Total Total 234851 1326 236177 East Of England 29507 43 29550 London 35126 610 35736 Midlands 42216 128 42344 North East And Yorkshire 34359 33 34392 North West 32861 210 33071 South East 34185 243 34428 South West 24938 58 24996
First Second Total Total 234851 1326 236177 East Of England 29507 43 29550 London 35126 610 35736 Midlands 42216 128 42344 North East And Yorkshire 34359 33 34392 North West 32861 210 33071 South East 34185 243 34428 South West 24938 58 24996
What kind of Daily Hate panic should we have?
Just think 2-3 weeks ago there was discussion on here that we would not be vaccinating on a Sunday.
Sinn Fein explicitly calling for a border poll is a change in stance.
Even the Irish government opposes a border poll within the next 5 years
Hesitate to dip toe in murky waters, but I'd heard opinions that the south wouldn't want to pay for the cost of Northern Ireland.
They will jump at chance of reuniting the whole country and get shedload of EU cash to get NI out of poverty levels and up to EU standards.
What exactly has prevented them from spending a "shedload of EU cash to get NI out of poverty levels and up to EU standards" up to now? Surely not just the fact that it was part of the UK...
"Jessica Gold, from London ... flew out to South Africa, where she owns a safari lodge in Greater Kruger National Park, at the end of November. Her son and mother then joined her for Christmas."
First Second Total Total 234851 1326 236177 East Of England 29507 43 29550 London 35126 610 35736 Midlands 42216 128 42344 North East And Yorkshire 34359 33 34392 North West 32861 210 33071 South East 34185 243 34428 South West 24938 58 24996
What kind of Daily Hate panic should we have?
Why has it suddenly dropped away?
Weekend. These are Sunday's figures.
Over a quarter of a million on a Sunday (once you factor in Scotland etc) is fantastic news.
But he's a Florida senator up for re-election in 2022 and Ivanka has her eyes on his seat.
I would think he had more chance in Florida than Ivanka does.
It was a very well organised Hispanic campaign (that he has a lot to do with) that really saved Florida for the GOP this year. If they toss him out for Ivanka - and if the Democrats are smart enough to choose a smart, moderate Hispanic candidate - then I'd make the Democrats favourites to gain that seat.
Of course labour has nothing to say. It champions the public sector producer lobby over the wider consumer of services.
JHB tied Wes Streeting into a knot this morning over when labour would like to see schools re-open.
More importantly I think Labour champions shovelling other people's money to its clients in the underclass and public sector unions, but there's no spare money now and won't be for many years.
And if there were, the Conservatives would pay it to their new clients in the red wall.
"Jessica Gold, from London ... flew out to South Africa, where she owns a safari lodge in Greater Kruger National Park, at the end of November. Her son and mother then joined her for Christmas."
Suck it up.
She's the one saying she'll refuse to quarantine in a hotel, right?
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?
A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, Remoaners would have had squirting orgasms of delight.
The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.
How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
This story is slowly making its way into the public consciousness and lots of my remain voting friends are starting to notice the EU vaccine export ban. One is saying "see we shouldn't have left" the rest think the idea is absolutely horrible and it's turning them against the EU.
There is no EU vaccine export ban. If you are rightly aggrieved by the German misreporting of the efficacy, why is it ok to misrepresent the EU position on vaccine exports?
Antagonising EU-UK relations further on fake news is just as unhelpful, the EU are considering a reporting requirement, even that does not exist and may or may not be implemented - it is very different to a ban.
It's a comment on the way the story is being reported right now across our media.
Yes but you know it is not true, why spread it for point scoring purposes against an institution we have already left?
It's called listening. Knowing what the non-politically inclined think about an issue means not getting involved in the conversation.
This way leads to Trumpian beliefs. Plenty of people now think there is an EU export ban, and I am being accused of being in denial for saying there is not. There is not an EU export ban, there is a proposal for early notification of exports, which will continue to be allowed.
Not really, the early notice system is being put in place for something. What legitimate reason can you think of for the EU to ask for this information? I can't think of anything.
Here's one off the top of my head. The EU produces 10 of something it needs and finds out that nine of them will be exported.
It then informs its Member States so they can be prepared or ramp up production or take other mitigating action.
That other mitigating action to include;
1.Rubbish the vaccine we haven't got enough of anyway 2. Ask the same company to give us doses promised and paid for by another country 3. Scream and shout about how unfair it all is 4. Hold hands and exult in beethoven's Ode to Joy
First Second Total Total 234851 1326 236177 East Of England 29507 43 29550 London 35126 610 35736 Midlands 42216 128 42344 North East And Yorkshire 34359 33 34392 North West 32861 210 33071 South East 34185 243 34428 South West 24938 58 24996
What kind of Daily Hate panic should we have?
Why has it suddenly dropped away?
Ah, having checked, I notice this is a pattern: Sunday/Monday see large falls. Let's hope it is just that
We did this last week. Yes we all want 7 day a week vaccination, but in truth the supply is probably being used in a 5 full on days, and 2 less full on days (sat and sunday). And to be fair GP's surgeries that are involved do need time off too. And the racing definitely needed to go ahead at Taunton...
First Second Total Total 234851 1326 236177 East Of England 29507 43 29550 London 35126 610 35736 Midlands 42216 128 42344 North East And Yorkshire 34359 33 34392 North West 32861 210 33071 South East 34185 243 34428 South West 24938 58 24996
What kind of Daily Hate panic should we have?
Why has it suddenly dropped away?
Ah, having checked, I notice this is a pattern: Sunday/Monday see large falls. Let's hope it is just that
Same pattern you seen with the infection and death numbers. They always look particularly bad on a Tuesday.
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?
A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, they would have had squirting orgasms of delight.
The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.
How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
No, in the UK people who publish lies in newspapers become Prime Minister.
This story is slowly making its way into the public consciousness and lots of my remain voting friends are starting to notice the EU vaccine export ban. One is saying "see we shouldn't have left" the rest think the idea is absolutely horrible and it's turning them against the EU.
There is no EU vaccine export ban. If you are rightly aggrieved by the German misreporting of the efficacy, why is it ok to misrepresent the EU position on vaccine exports?
Antagonising EU-UK relations further on fake news is just as unhelpful, the EU are considering a reporting requirement, even that does not exist and may or may not be implemented - it is very different to a ban.
It's a comment on the way the story is being reported right now across our media.
Yes but you know it is not true, why spread it for point scoring purposes against an institution we have already left?
It's called listening. Knowing what the non-politically inclined think about an issue means not getting involved in the conversation.
This way leads to Trumpian beliefs. Plenty of people now think there is an EU export ban, and I am being accused of being in denial for saying there is not. There is not an EU export ban, there is a proposal for early notification of exports, which will continue to be allowed.
Not really, the early notice system is being put in place for something. What legitimate reason can you think of for the EU to ask for this information? I can't think of anything.
Here's one off the top of my head. The EU produces 10 of something it needs and finds out that nine of them will be exported.
It then informs its Member States so they can be prepared or ramp up production or take other mitigating action.
That other mitigating action to include;
1.Rubbish the vaccine we haven't got enough of anyway 2. Ask the same company to give us doses promised and paid for by another country 3. Scream and shout about how unfair it all is 4. Hold hands and exult in beethoven's Ode to Joy
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?
A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, Remoaners would have had squirting orgasms of delight.
The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.
How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
Why would the newspaper fire him with the unamended story still up?
Surely you think this is all a load of nonsense because it's no worse than a bad cold and we should all get back to normal?
Tell you what. I will admit covid is a serious issue.
But then you have to admit that lockdowns have devastating consequences. On children. On young people. On people in poverty. On jobs and the economy. on mental health. On the fabric of society. On human rights. Its eminently clear today.
I at least have tried to have a debate about whether lockdowns are worth it and whether the extent to which the young are being sacrificed is worth it.
All you and others like you have tried to do is shut down debate.
It's a non-debate in terms of the big picture. Every single thing you mention would have been worse with no lockdown. There is no "cost of lockdown" because it was not an either/or choice. Or the cost is negative if you like. It's large and negative.
The valid debate has been - still is - around the details of the restrictions. The timing. The scope. Border control. The balance between trust and law. The extent to which it should be policed. All of this.
You have shown not the slightest interest in having a debate like that. All you've done on this whole topic since the virus emerged is spread lies and write fatuously pretentious faux "man of the world" drivel.
This story is slowly making its way into the public consciousness and lots of my remain voting friends are starting to notice the EU vaccine export ban. One is saying "see we shouldn't have left" the rest think the idea is absolutely horrible and it's turning them against the EU.
There is no EU vaccine export ban. If you are rightly aggrieved by the German misreporting of the efficacy, why is it ok to misrepresent the EU position on vaccine exports?
Antagonising EU-UK relations further on fake news is just as unhelpful, the EU are considering a reporting requirement, even that does not exist and may or may not be implemented - it is very different to a ban.
It's a comment on the way the story is being reported right now across our media.
Yes but you know it is not true, why spread it for point scoring purposes against an institution we have already left?
It's called listening. Knowing what the non-politically inclined think about an issue means not getting involved in the conversation.
This way leads to Trumpian beliefs. Plenty of people now think there is an EU export ban, and I am being accused of being in denial for saying there is not. There is not an EU export ban, there is a proposal for early notification of exports, which will continue to be allowed.
Not really, the early notice system is being put in place for something. What legitimate reason can you think of for the EU to ask for this information? I can't think of anything.
Here's one off the top of my head. The EU produces 10 of something it needs and finds out that nine of them will be exported.
It then informs its Member States so they can be prepared or ramp up production or take other mitigating action.
That other mitigating action to include;
1.Rubbish the vaccine we haven't got enough of anyway 2. Ask the same company to give us doses promised and paid for by another country 3. Scream and shout about how unfair it all is 4. Hold hands and exult in beethoven's Ode to Joy
Beats me why anyone lives there tbh.
Not everyone can be lucky enough to be born in the greatest country in the world.
But he's a Florida senator up for re-election in 2022 and Ivanka has her eyes on his seat.
I would think he had more chance in Florida than Ivanka does.
It was a very well organised Hispanic campaign (that he has a lot to do with) that really saved Florida for the GOP this year. If they toss him out for Ivanka - and if the Democrats are smart enough to choose a smart, moderate Hispanic candidate - then I'd make the Democrats favourites to gain that seat.
Oh I know but as @contrarian points out below - the Republicans are often winning seats because their are getting MAGA supporters votes.
Remove those votes by Trump / MAGA standing as 3rd party candidates and the Republicans have a real problem.
Heck even Trump telling his supporters not to vote until election day cost him the election.
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?
A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, they would have had squirting orgasms of delight.
The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.
How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
No, in the UK people who publish lies in newspapers become Prime Minister.
Whataboutery of the first water,
FFS this is a lie - sorry "journalistic error" - on a cosmic level; the 8% meme is now out there, and it will possibly cause deaths.
To make it worse, Handelsblatt were told last night be multiple experts - virologists, epidemiologists, everyone - that the "8% thing" was almost certainly wrong, damaging and dangerous, and should be immediately retracted. Did they? No. They doubled down.
First Second Total Total 234851 1326 236177 East Of England 29507 43 29550 London 35126 610 35736 Midlands 42216 128 42344 North East And Yorkshire 34359 33 34392 North West 32861 210 33071 South East 34185 243 34428 South West 24938 58 24996
What kind of Daily Hate panic should we have?
Why has it suddenly dropped away?
Weekend. These are Sunday's figures.
Over a quarter of a million on a Sunday (once you factor in Scotland etc) is fantastic news.
Yes. The Saturday figures were slightly down on the week before, but with these figures for the Sunday it looks like the weekend as a whole is ahead of the previous weekend.
A half-baked announcement. Only covring a handful of countries. Full of apologetic wibble. Then next week when a new variant pops up in Dubai or Canada, he'll be dragged in to doing the right thing.
Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
Why the hell should people quarantine if they're coming from New Zealand or Taiwan?
Priti's solution to any problem is to close borders. She's only trying to cover up her department's failure at enforcing the regulations we already have. Just like Hancock, who can't explain why we still don't have a Taiwanese-style tracing regime a year after they set theirs up.
First Second Total Total 234851 1326 236177 East Of England 29507 43 29550 London 35126 610 35736 Midlands 42216 128 42344 North East And Yorkshire 34359 33 34392 North West 32861 210 33071 South East 34185 243 34428 South West 24938 58 24996
What kind of Daily Hate panic should we have?
Why has it suddenly dropped away?
Weekend. These are Sunday's figures.
Over a quarter of a million on a Sunday (once you factor in Scotland etc) is fantastic news.
Quite
This is now the 3rd occurrence of this pattern
It's bad reporting - the BBC last night said it was injections in the past 24 hours when its always the figures from the day before that. Yes it's harder to say and not 100% accurate but just say vaccinations on (day before yesterday) were...
This story is slowly making its way into the public consciousness and lots of my remain voting friends are starting to notice the EU vaccine export ban. One is saying "see we shouldn't have left" the rest think the idea is absolutely horrible and it's turning them against the EU.
There is no EU vaccine export ban. If you are rightly aggrieved by the German misreporting of the efficacy, why is it ok to misrepresent the EU position on vaccine exports?
Antagonising EU-UK relations further on fake news is just as unhelpful, the EU are considering a reporting requirement, even that does not exist and may or may not be implemented - it is very different to a ban.
It's a comment on the way the story is being reported right now across our media.
Yes but you know it is not true, why spread it for point scoring purposes against an institution we have already left?
It's called listening. Knowing what the non-politically inclined think about an issue means not getting involved in the conversation.
This way leads to Trumpian beliefs. Plenty of people now think there is an EU export ban, and I am being accused of being in denial for saying there is not. There is not an EU export ban, there is a proposal for early notification of exports, which will continue to be allowed.
Not really, the early notice system is being put in place for something. What legitimate reason can you think of for the EU to ask for this information? I can't think of anything.
Here's one off the top of my head. The EU produces 10 of something it needs and finds out that nine of them will be exported.
It then informs its Member States so they can be prepared or ramp up production or take other mitigating action.
Ok, what's the other mitigating action?
Inform the Member States so they can order in more of the thing's ingredients. Or open new thing facilities. Or...
Or...
Invade Russia to seize quantities of the Sputnik V?
I know it's hard for you to see the veil lifted from the EU, but you've surely realised it's been coming for a while.
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?
A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, Remoaners would have had squirting orgasms of delight.
The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.
How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
Why would the newspaper fire him with the unamended story still up?
I know.
As I've said before, I have friends who work in German media for German papers etc. They tell me German press and TV have their own ways of being bewilderingly slow and ineffective - and outright mendacious - that make the UK media look smart, fast, expert and honest.
There are many reasons to admire modern Germany. German media is not one of them.
A half-baked announcement. Only covring a handful of countries. Full of apologetic wibble. Then next week when a new variant pops up in Dubai or Canada, he'll be dragged in to doing the right thing.
Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
Why the hell should people quarantine if they're coming from New Zealand or Taiwan?
Priti's solution to any problem is to close borders. She's only trying to cover up her department's failure at enforcing the regulations we already have. Just like Hancock, who can't explain why we still don't have a Taiwanese-style tracing regime a year after they set theirs up.
Or what we could do is work with these countries to create a global standard and baseline for what border quarantine measures should be and once our own virus levels have dropped to almost nothing through a combination of lockdown, vaccines and tough border controls we can selectively open them to countries which have the same measures in place and the same low virus levels.
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?
A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, they would have had squirting orgasms of delight.
The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.
How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
No, in the UK people who publish lies in newspapers become Prime Minister.
Whataboutery of the first water,
FFS this is a lie - sorry "journalistic error" - on a cosmic level; the 8% meme is now out there, and it will possibly cause deaths.
To make it worse, Handelsblatt were told last night be multiple experts - virologists, epidemiologists, everyone - that the "8% thing" was almost certainly wrong, damaging and dangerous, and should be immediately retracted. Did they? No. They doubled down.
It was still on their website just an hour ago.
It does seem like monumentally bad journalism, from what we know right now. I just thought you were rather foolish to make out like our media is some kind of paradise of objective truth telling, given that one prominent journalist was famously sacked by the Times for making up a story, subsequently employed by the Telegraph where he enjoyed much success despite making up even more, and is now (checks notes) the actual leader of the country. The comparison was yours, I was just pointing out that it was a poor one; that's not Whataboutery, since you were the one to make it a cross-country case study in journalistic ethics.
First Second Total Total 234851 1326 236177 East Of England 29507 43 29550 London 35126 610 35736 Midlands 42216 128 42344 North East And Yorkshire 34359 33 34392 North West 32861 210 33071 South East 34185 243 34428 South West 24938 58 24996
What kind of Daily Hate panic should we have?
Why has it suddenly dropped away?
Ah, having checked, I notice this is a pattern: Sunday/Monday see large falls. Let's hope it is just that
We did this last week. Yes we all want 7 day a week vaccination, but in truth the supply is probably being used in a 5 full on days, and 2 less full on days (sat and sunday). And to be fair GP's surgeries that are involved do need time off too. And the racing definitely needed to go ahead at Taunton...
(The last one is a joke, btw)
Dunno, only two things to do in Taunton - go racing or catch Covid..... (*Devon waves*)
A half-baked announcement. Only covring a handful of countries. Full of apologetic wibble. Then next week when a new variant pops up in Dubai or Canada, he'll be dragged in to doing the right thing.
Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
Why the hell should people quarantine if they're coming from New Zealand or Taiwan?
Priti's solution to any problem is to close borders. She's only trying to cover up her department's failure at enforcing the regulations we already have. Just like Hancock, who can't explain why we still don't have a Taiwanese-style tracing regime a year after they set theirs up.
Once you reach a certain level of infections - many thousands a day - track and trace becomes impossible. Germany admitted this months ago, and abandoned their attempt.
You have to do it right at the start, with closed borders.
Which is what we should have done. But it is too late now.
It may become possible again if the vaccine massively reduces the outbreak down to hundreds of daily cases.....
This story is slowly making its way into the public consciousness and lots of my remain voting friends are starting to notice the EU vaccine export ban. One is saying "see we shouldn't have left" the rest think the idea is absolutely horrible and it's turning them against the EU.
There is no EU vaccine export ban. If you are rightly aggrieved by the German misreporting of the efficacy, why is it ok to misrepresent the EU position on vaccine exports?
Antagonising EU-UK relations further on fake news is just as unhelpful, the EU are considering a reporting requirement, even that does not exist and may or may not be implemented - it is very different to a ban.
It's a comment on the way the story is being reported right now across our media.
Yes but you know it is not true, why spread it for point scoring purposes against an institution we have already left?
It's called listening. Knowing what the non-politically inclined think about an issue means not getting involved in the conversation.
This way leads to Trumpian beliefs. Plenty of people now think there is an EU export ban, and I am being accused of being in denial for saying there is not. There is not an EU export ban, there is a proposal for early notification of exports, which will continue to be allowed.
Not really, the early notice system is being put in place for something. What legitimate reason can you think of for the EU to ask for this information? I can't think of anything.
Here's one off the top of my head. The EU produces 10 of something it needs and finds out that nine of them will be exported.
It then informs its Member States so they can be prepared or ramp up production or take other mitigating action.
Ok, what's the other mitigating action?
Inform the Member States so they can order in more of the thing's ingredients. Or open new thing facilities. Or...
Or...
Invade Russia to seize quantities of the Sputnik V?
I know it's hard for you to see the veil lifted from the EU, but you've surely realised it's been coming for a while.
Not at all. The EU is far from perfect. And the pandemic exacerbates everything right now. So who knows how serious those "do whatever it takes to protect EU citizens" is or how it will extend. You don't and nor do I. Albeit if we are in a time of crisis then every country or in this case group of countries acting together is beholden to protect its citizens.
I don't see us sending vaccine supplies to Somalia, for example.
But there is not a "vaccine export ban" there has been an "export transparency mechanism" mooted.
You (rather untypically - why the vitriol?) have put two and two together and reached WAR.
Does the UK have J&J doses? How many and on what timescale?
30m initial order, priority delivery timescale (starting in April), 22m option for H2 delivery.
*EU eyes look on, enviously....*
The generous, outward looking "Spirit of Leave".
Proving once more that Brexit was not driven by xenophobic, Little Englander antipathy towards the continent, but by a rational and mature realization that the UK was not a good fit in an ever more integrated European Union.
Absolutely. 100%.
The one thing the EU got directly involved in was vaccines and as a result they have shown itself to be a bureaucratic, shambling and dare I say sclerotic mess.
The UK has shown itself to be innovative, quick and dare I say nimble in achieving better results - with contracts signed three months earlier and a rollout that is working.
Germany and other nations had contracts ready to sign in June. Because of the EU interference they weren't signed for another couple of months causing needless delay resulting in what we see today.
A perfect realisation that demonstrates exactly what some of us have said here.
So we seem to be doing better on something than the EU. Has to happen sometimes. Law of averages. But please get back to my 12.47 post. It's important and lying there unanswered. Until it is - and you really ought to be able to - you stand exposed as somebody who only likes Robert Peston when he says things that you like.
I got back to you. I like knowing the truth. If the truth is unpleasant, I still want to know it. I don't want only sunshine and unicorns - if he reports the truth, even if the truth is horrific - then he is doing a good job as a reporter. It isn't a reporters job to report only things that make us smile.
If you can post anything well sourced and factual that I have objected to him reporting then you will have a point. But the problem with Peston is its so rare for him to post anything well sourced and factual. He is the proverbial broken clock.
You didn't. Don't lie to me. The post is at 12.47 and the very simple question therein is unanswered. Conclusions will be drawn if you keep avoiding it and blustering.
Sinn Fein explicitly calling for a border poll is a change in stance.
Even the Irish government opposes a border poll within the next 5 years
Hesitate to dip toe in murky waters, but I'd heard opinions that the south wouldn't want to pay for the cost of Northern Ireland.
They will jump at chance of reuniting the whole country and get shedload of EU cash to get NI out of poverty levels and up to EU standards.
Hmm. Not sure I'd be confident of the Poles, Spaniards, Greeks etc signing up for that. But, who knows, you may be right. As I suspect you are on Sturgeon/Salmond...
Yes, may not get oodles of cash upfront but numbers suggest it is only a matter of time now and not a long time. Surely them being saddled with NI economics would drop them down the table enough to warrant some extra cash mind you.
"Jessica Gold, from London ... flew out to South Africa, where she owns a safari lodge in Greater Kruger National Park, at the end of November. Her son and mother then joined her for Christmas."
Suck it up.
She's the one saying she'll refuse to quarantine in a hotel, right?
Shouldn't be too hard to track her down
She’ll be the one sleeping on the bench at the airport - not realising she’ll still have to do quarantine anyway, so might as well get it over with as quickly as possible.
"Jessica Gold, from London ... flew out to South Africa, where she owns a safari lodge in Greater Kruger National Park, at the end of November. Her son and mother then joined her for Christmas."
First Second Total Total 234851 1326 236177 East Of England 29507 43 29550 London 35126 610 35736 Midlands 42216 128 42344 North East And Yorkshire 34359 33 34392 North West 32861 210 33071 South East 34185 243 34428 South West 24938 58 24996
What kind of Daily Hate panic should we have?
Why has it suddenly dropped away?
Weekend. These are Sunday's figures.
Over a quarter of a million on a Sunday (once you factor in Scotland etc) is fantastic news.
Quite
This is now the 3rd occurrence of this pattern
It's bad reporting - the BBC last night said it was injections in the past 24 hours when its always the figures from the day before that. Yes it's harder to say and not 100% accurate but just say vaccinations on (day before yesterday) were...
It's bad reporting as well as not very good updating from the government, they should say that these numbers mostly relate to two days prior. We know from yesterday that journalist and politicians really, really don't understand numbers or statistics (in what could become an extremely destructive manner) so the job of the data people is to make it much more obvious what the true numbers are and what they relate to. It's something I always do before presenting data to colleagues, especially those who aren't data literate.
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?
A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, Remoaners would have had squirting orgasms of delight.
The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.
How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
Why would the newspaper fire him with the unamended story still up?
I know.
As I've said before, I have friends who work in German media for German papers etc. They tell me German press and TV have their own ways of being bewilderingly slow and ineffective - and outright mendacious - that make the UK media look smart, fast, expert and honest.
There are many reasons to admire modern Germany. German media is not one of them.
friends plural who work for German newspapers?
Flint knapping really does take you around the world.
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?
A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, Remoaners would have had squirting orgasms of delight.
The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.
How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
I wonder if Hodges and Cohen and many on here, will be as hot on these 'spreaders of disinformation' as they are on Toby Young and JHB.
I know I should have known better, and indeed posted on my scepticism last night about the 8 % nonsense, but I still found it a depressing and slightly worrying few hours. We are in such a disasterous situation that the consequences if it had been true we too awful to think about. I really think whoever is at fault for this needs public shaming and should be made to apologise. As others have said, there is genuine vaccine hesitancy and reluctance. A totally incorrect story like this, however 'well intentioned' (assuming it was), genuinely could claim lives.
I can deal with the innumeracy of the daily ups and downs of cases and deaths (deaths increased today from yesterday and on and on and on...), but this was of a different order. Making a huge claim, without actually getting the facts right? That can have such consequences? Career ending.
I agree. Someone at the German newspaper and the unnamed someone(s) in the German Coalition Government need to be fired.
"Jessica Gold, from London ... flew out to South Africa, where she owns a safari lodge in Greater Kruger National Park, at the end of November. Her son and mother then joined her for Christmas."
Suck it up.
Don't see why she can't continue to live out in South Africa tbh - that's where her business is located.
This story is slowly making its way into the public consciousness and lots of my remain voting friends are starting to notice the EU vaccine export ban. One is saying "see we shouldn't have left" the rest think the idea is absolutely horrible and it's turning them against the EU.
There is no EU vaccine export ban. If you are rightly aggrieved by the German misreporting of the efficacy, why is it ok to misrepresent the EU position on vaccine exports?
Antagonising EU-UK relations further on fake news is just as unhelpful, the EU are considering a reporting requirement, even that does not exist and may or may not be implemented - it is very different to a ban.
It's a comment on the way the story is being reported right now across our media.
Yes but you know it is not true, why spread it for point scoring purposes against an institution we have already left?
It's called listening. Knowing what the non-politically inclined think about an issue means not getting involved in the conversation.
This way leads to Trumpian beliefs. Plenty of people now think there is an EU export ban, and I am being accused of being in denial for saying there is not. There is not an EU export ban, there is a proposal for early notification of exports, which will continue to be allowed.
Not really, the early notice system is being put in place for something. What legitimate reason can you think of for the EU to ask for this information? I can't think of anything.
Here's one off the top of my head. The EU produces 10 of something it needs and finds out that nine of them will be exported.
It then informs its Member States so they can be prepared or ramp up production or take other mitigating action.
That other mitigating action to include;
1.Rubbish the vaccine we haven't got enough of anyway 2. Ask the same company to give us doses promised and paid for by another country 3. Scream and shout about how unfair it all is 4. Hold hands and exult in beethoven's Ode to Joy
Beats me why anyone would want to live there tbh.
Lol - the sun and cheap prices make a huge difference. But yes nowhere's perfect.
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?
A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, they would have had squirting orgasms of delight.
The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.
How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
No, in the UK people who publish lies in newspapers become Prime Minister.
Amazing that Alastair Campbell never made it to the Premiership then - he had some real whoppers!
My local GP has just sent out a text asking people to avoid the health centre for a few days.
This is because they are going to do 2000 vaccinations, in a 6 day block, at the end of the month.
Blimey that's not many. In the vaccine centre I was in last month they were doing 300-400 a day and there was barely a trickle (two treatment rooms). And that was with the 15 minute wait.
I really, really hope EU governments and the UK are working together at a high level to remove bottlenecks in the supply chain of the vaccines for AZ and Pfizer, if they are not already doing so.
Not just in the raw materials for the vaccine itself but componentry, sterility services, and maintenance, which includes human capital.
We need to move everything from where it is to where it needs to go as quickly as possible.
If a bottleneck is identified there should be high-level buy-in to remove it.
It really should being treated like a war. This is not simply a case of two private companies making their product as normal.
Very good and just standard sharing between countries. Scottish hospitals were taking in English patients all across the borders area last week. Good to see some people are sensible about co-operation between the countries when required.
I wonder if Hodges and Cohen and many on here, will be as hot on these 'spreaders of disinformation' as they are on Toby Young and JHB.
I know I should have known better, and indeed posted on my scepticism last night about the 8 % nonsense, but I still found it a depressing and slightly worrying few hours. We are in such a disasterous situation that the consequences if it had been true we too awful to think about. I really think whoever is at fault for this needs public shaming and should be made to apologise. As others have said, there is genuine vaccine hesitancy and reluctance. A totally incorrect story like this, however 'well intentioned' (assuming it was), genuinely could claim lives.
I can deal with the innumeracy of the daily ups and downs of cases and deaths (deaths increased today from yesterday and on and on and on...), but this was of a different order. Making a huge claim, without actually getting the facts right? That can have such consequences? Career ending.
I agree. Someone at the German newspaper and the unnamed someone(s) in the German Coalition Government need to be fired.
Preferably into the sun.
I'm sure the someone at the German newspaper would fit in at the Sun, as long as he didn't mind a bit of two world wars, one word cup banter.
I really, really hope EU governments and the UK are working together at a high level to remove bottlenecks in the supply chain of the vaccines for AZ and Pfizer, if they are not already doing so.
Not just in the raw materials for the vaccine itself but componentry, sterility services, and maintenance, which includes human capital.
We need to move everything from where it is to where it needs to go as quickly as possible.
If a bottleneck is identified there should be high-level buy-in to remove it.
It really should being treated like a war. This is not simply a case of two private companies making their product as normal.
Oh, it's being treated as a war alright. By the EU.
"The head of the Standing Vaccination Commission warns against scaremongering: So far, there is no evidence that vaccines against the variant of the #coronavirus do not help."
My local GP has just sent out a text asking people to avoid the health centre for a few days.
This is because they are going to do 2000 vaccinations, in a 6 day block, at the end of the month.
Blimey that's not many. In the vaccine centre I was in last month they were doing 300-400 a day and there was barely a trickle (two treatment rooms). And that was with the 15 minute wait.
Its a small practise. that would be all their 70+ .... *at least*...
I really, really hope EU governments and the UK are working together at a high level to remove bottlenecks in the supply chain of the vaccines for AZ and Pfizer, if they are not already doing so.
Not just in the raw materials for the vaccine itself but componentry, sterility services, and maintenance, which includes human capital.
We need to move everything from where it is to where it needs to go as quickly as possible.
If a bottleneck is identified there should be high-level buy-in to remove it.
It really should being treated like a war. This is not simply a case of two private companies making their product as normal.
Oh, it's being treated as a war alright. By the EU.
Surely you think this is all a load of nonsense because it's no worse than a bad cold and we should all get back to normal?
Tell you what. I will admit covid is a serious issue.
But then you have to admit that lockdowns have devastating consequences. On children. On young people. On people in poverty. On jobs and the economy. on mental health. On the fabric of society. On human rights. Its eminently clear today.
I at least have tried to have a debate about whether lockdowns are worth it and whether the extent to which the young are being sacrificed is worth it.
All you and others like you have tried to do is shut down debate.
It's a non-debate in terms of the big picture. Every single thing you mention would have been worse with no lockdown. There is no "cost of lockdown" because it was not an either/or choice. Or the cost is negative if you like. It's large and negative.
The valid debate has been - still is - around the details of the restrictions. The timing. The scope. Border control. The balance between trust and law. The extent to which it should be policed. All of this.
You have shown not the slightest interest in having a debate like that. All you've done on this whole topic since the virus emerged is spread lies and write fatuously pretentious faux "man of the world" drivel.
More correctly, the debate should not be about lockdown or not, but about what level of non-medical interventions (social distancing, hand and respiratory hygiene, PPE) is required to minimize the net impact of the outbreak. And that has to include consideration of all the issues Contrarian lists.
It so happens, lockdowns seem to be about the most socially doable mechanism. It need not have been the only option, or even the best one. For example, we could all have agreed to wear full PPE (full Tyvek body suit, booties, gloves, hood, N95, goggles, face shield - assuming no shortages), and gone about our normal business (except eating and drinking in public) and learnt how to don and doff our PPE correctly and decontaminate at the appropriate points in our activities.
There may well have been a better optimal mix of policies. Unfortunately, we'll never know, because this is not an experiment that can be re-run. And no, the UK's experience cannot really be directly compared with that of other nations because a pandemic is a complex adaptive system, a type of system which is extremely sensitive to initial states and inputs - i.e. where outcomes vary massively based on changes of initial state and input below the level at which measurements can be made. I think that drawing any inference from international comparisons is fraught, other than 1. timing is important, and 2. level of compliance with government guidelines/rules is much, much more important for effectiveness than the actual guidelines/rules themselves.
Apparently there is a poll out there showing a MAGA party would push the Republicans into third nationally.
Every argument advanced by the never Trump republicans like the Lincoln Project, as well as many on here, does not hold water.
There is.
It had the Democrats on 46%, a Trumpite Patriots Party on 23% and the GOP on just 17% if such a Patriots Party was formed by Trump. Very conservative voters would vote 55% Patriots to just 24% GOP.
My local GP has just sent out a text asking people to avoid the health centre for a few days.
This is because they are going to do 2000 vaccinations, in a 6 day block, at the end of the month.
Blimey that's not many. In the vaccine centre I was in last month they were doing 300-400 a day and there was barely a trickle (two treatment rooms). And that was with the 15 minute wait.
Its a small practise. that would be all their 70+ .... *at least*...
That's great - heard anecdotally that someone accompanying their aged relative at the end of the day got jabbed themselves.
No idea if this rings true?
Maybe as likely as some NHS office workers being co-opted into ICU to help out.
If the EU block export of Pfizer vaccines to UK, while demanding queue jumping of AZN ones made in the UK....that will go down well.
Don't worry, the EU will still have it's defenders in the UK, either out loud or by staying quiet.
Everyone needs to stop frothing.
The EU are not going to block export of Pfizer vaccines.
What is wrong with everyone?
So why are they putting a notification and approval process in place for exports?
We can discuss the behaviour of the EU if and when they actually do something. Otherwise everyone is just frothing about a few tweets from EU knobheads.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
You think that Commissioner Kyriakides is a knobhead?
A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
If the UK had been behaving with the chaotic, flailing incompetence of the EU and its media friends, in the last couple of weeks, they would have had squirting orgasms of delight.
The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.
How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
No, in the UK people who publish lies in newspapers become Prime Minister.
Amazing that Alastair Campbell never made it to the Premiership then - he had some real whoppers!
@Leon here is some proper old school Whataboutery for you to condemn.
Rough times for One Nation politics and politicians. Massive opportunity for a political genius, Labour being the only national party with space and opportunity for political genius at this precise moment. If we ever needed a new Blair it is now.
First Second Total Total 234851 1326 236177 East Of England 29507 43 29550 London 35126 610 35736 Midlands 42216 128 42344 North East And Yorkshire 34359 33 34392 North West 32861 210 33071 South East 34185 243 34428 South West 24938 58 24996
What kind of Daily Hate panic should we have?
Why has it suddenly dropped away?
Ah, having checked, I notice this is a pattern: Sunday/Monday see large falls. Let's hope it is just that
We did this last week. Yes we all want 7 day a week vaccination, but in truth the supply is probably being used in a 5 full on days, and 2 less full on days (sat and sunday). And to be fair GP's surgeries that are involved do need time off too. And the racing definitely needed to go ahead at Taunton...
(The last one is a joke, btw)
Dunno, only two things to do in Taunton - go racing or catch Covid..... (*Devon waves*)
A half-baked announcement. Only covring a handful of countries. Full of apologetic wibble. Then next week when a new variant pops up in Dubai or Canada, he'll be dragged in to doing the right thing.
Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
Why the hell should people quarantine if they're coming from New Zealand or Taiwan?
Priti's solution to any problem is to close borders. She's only trying to cover up her department's failure at enforcing the regulations we already have. Just like Hancock, who can't explain why we still don't have a Taiwanese-style tracing regime a year after they set theirs up.
Or what we could do is work with these countries to create a global standard and baseline for what border quarantine measures should be and once our own virus levels have dropped to almost nothing through a combination of lockdown, vaccines and tough border controls we can selectively open them to countries which have the same measures in place and the same low virus levels.
Indeed. But we need to work with a white list of countries, not a black list as some are suggesting.
My local GP has just sent out a text asking people to avoid the health centre for a few days.
This is because they are going to do 2000 vaccinations, in a 6 day block, at the end of the month.
Blimey that's not many. In the vaccine centre I was in last month they were doing 300-400 a day and there was barely a trickle (two treatment rooms). And that was with the 15 minute wait.
Surely it depends how large the health centre is and how populous the area is.
I really, really hope EU governments and the UK are working together at a high level to remove bottlenecks in the supply chain of the vaccines for AZ and Pfizer, if they are not already doing so.
Not just in the raw materials for the vaccine itself but componentry, sterility services, and maintenance, which includes human capital.
We need to move everything from where it is to where it needs to go as quickly as possible.
If a bottleneck is identified there should be high-level buy-in to remove it.
It really should being treated like a war. This is not simply a case of two private companies making their product as normal.
Oh, it's being treated as a war alright. By the EU.
We appreciate that there is a certain demographic that likes this narrative.
And for ease of reference let's call this demographic "Little Englanders".
I really, really hope EU governments and the UK are working together at a high level to remove bottlenecks in the supply chain of the vaccines for AZ and Pfizer, if they are not already doing so.
Not just in the raw materials for the vaccine itself but componentry, sterility services, and maintenance, which includes human capital.
We need to move everything from where it is to where it needs to go as quickly as possible.
If a bottleneck is identified there should be high-level buy-in to remove it.
It really should being treated like a war. This is not simply a case of two private companies making their product as normal.
Oh, it's being treated as a war alright. By the EU.
Comments
The hatred for Paris outside Paris gets way, way beyond a joke, sometimes.
AstraZeneca has offered to bring forward some deliveries of its COVID-19 vaccine to the European Union while the bloc has asked the British drugmaker if it can divert doses from the UK to make up for a shortfall in supplies, European officials told Reuters.
The EU official involved in the talks also said that the EU had explicitly asked AstraZeneca whether it could divert to the 27-nation bloc doses produced in Britain, at least through March.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-eu-astrazeneca-exc/exclusive-astrazeneca-offers-eu-earlier-covid-19-vaccine-supplies-in-feb-no-clarity-on-rerouting-from-uk-sources-idUSKBN29V16X
Rejoin is dead.
I know first-hand how integrated EU and UK pharma supply chains are. Britain therefore has significant leverage and any trade war would have awful consequences for both parties.
Everyone just needs to calm down.
https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1354056259423580162?s=21
I am sure he will be outraged by this poisonous German disinformation....
If you can post anything well sourced and factual that I have objected to him reporting then you will have a point. But the problem with Peston is its so rare for him to post anything well sourced and factual. He is the proverbial broken clock.
Just close the fecking borders - listen to the Pritster!
Every argument advanced by the never Trump republicans like the Lincoln Project, as well as many on here, does not hold water.
A little undiplomatic but OK . . .
Ah, having checked, I notice this is a pattern: Sunday/Monday see large falls. Let's hope it is just that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY
Over a quarter of a million on a Sunday (once you factor in Scotland etc) is fantastic news.
JHB tied Wes Streeting into a knot this morning over when labour would like to see schools re-open.
But he's a Florida senator up for re-election in 2022 and Ivanka has her eyes on his seat.
"Jessica Gold, from London ... flew out to South Africa, where she owns a safari lodge in Greater Kruger National Park, at the end of November. Her son and mother then joined her for Christmas."
Suck it up.
This is now the 3rd occurrence of this pattern
It was a very well organised Hispanic campaign (that he has a lot to do with) that really saved Florida for the GOP this year. If they toss him out for Ivanka - and if the Democrats are smart enough to choose a smart, moderate Hispanic candidate - then I'd make the Democrats favourites to gain that seat.
And if there were, the Conservatives would pay it to their new clients in the red wall.
Shouldn't be too hard to track her down
The Handelsblatt error is just mind-bogglingly stupid, world class levels of irresponsible, and it could lead to actual deaths as people read the fake news (still being retweeted by Told You So anti-vaxxers) and avoid the jab.
How has the journalist wo wrote it still got a job? In the UK he'd now be collecting Universal Credit.
1.Rubbish the vaccine we haven't got enough of anyway
2. Ask the same company to give us doses promised and paid for by another country
3. Scream and shout about how unfair it all is
4. Hold hands and exult in beethoven's Ode to Joy
And the racing definitely needed to go ahead at Taunton...
(The last one is a joke, btw)
The valid debate has been - still is - around the details of the restrictions. The timing. The scope. Border control. The balance between trust and law. The extent to which it should be policed. All of this.
You have shown not the slightest interest in having a debate like that. All you've done on this whole topic since the virus emerged is spread lies and write fatuously pretentious faux "man of the world" drivel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vh-wEXvdW8
Mr Speaker will not be pleased. Yet again.
Remove those votes by Trump / MAGA standing as 3rd party candidates and the Republicans have a real problem.
Heck even Trump telling his supporters not to vote until election day cost him the election.
FFS this is a lie - sorry "journalistic error" - on a cosmic level; the 8% meme is now out there, and it will possibly cause deaths.
To make it worse, Handelsblatt were told last night be multiple experts - virologists, epidemiologists, everyone - that the "8% thing" was almost certainly wrong, damaging and dangerous, and should be immediately retracted. Did they? No. They doubled down.
It was still on their website just an hour ago.
Priti's solution to any problem is to close borders. She's only trying to cover up her department's failure at enforcing the regulations we already have. Just like Hancock, who can't explain why we still don't have a Taiwanese-style tracing regime a year after they set theirs up.
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1354072188257759233?s=20
As I've said before, I have friends who work in German media for German papers etc. They tell me German press and TV have their own ways of being bewilderingly slow and ineffective - and outright mendacious - that make the UK media look smart, fast, expert and honest.
There are many reasons to admire modern Germany. German media is not one of them.
0800 6 7 8 9 10 11
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55793731
Let's see if the authorities adopt an HY approach. Slight problem for them is that the Punjabis in the military will be siding with the farmers.
I just thought you were rather foolish to make out like our media is some kind of paradise of objective truth telling, given that one prominent journalist was famously sacked by the Times for making up a story, subsequently employed by the Telegraph where he enjoyed much success despite making up even more, and is now (checks notes) the actual leader of the country.
The comparison was yours, I was just pointing out that it was a poor one; that's not Whataboutery, since you were the one to make it a cross-country case study in journalistic ethics.
You have to do it right at the start, with closed borders.
Which is what we should have done. But it is too late now.
It may become possible again if the vaccine massively reduces the outbreak down to hundreds of daily cases.....
I don't see us sending vaccine supplies to Somalia, for example.
But there is not a "vaccine export ban" there has been an "export transparency mechanism" mooted.
You (rather untypically - why the vitriol?) have put two and two together and reached WAR.
This is because they are going to do 2000 vaccinations, in a 6 day block, at the end of the month.
Flint knapping really does take you around the world.
Someone at the German newspaper and the unnamed someone(s) in the German Coalition Government need to be fired.
Preferably into the sun.
Waste of polling time...
Not just in the raw materials for the vaccine itself but componentry, sterility services, and maintenance, which includes human capital.
We need to move everything from where it is to where it needs to go as quickly as possible.
If a bottleneck is identified there should be high-level buy-in to remove it.
It really should being treated like a war. This is not simply a case of two private companies making their product as normal.
https://twitter.com/SpechtFr/status/1341447007756496906?s=20
"The head of the Standing Vaccination Commission warns against scaremongering: So far, there is no evidence that vaccines against the variant of the #coronavirus do not help."
It so happens, lockdowns seem to be about the most socially doable mechanism. It need not have been the only option, or even the best one. For example, we could all have agreed to wear full PPE (full Tyvek body suit, booties, gloves, hood, N95, goggles, face shield - assuming no shortages), and gone about our normal business (except eating and drinking in public) and learnt how to don and doff our PPE correctly and decontaminate at the appropriate points in our activities.
There may well have been a better optimal mix of policies. Unfortunately, we'll never know, because this is not an experiment that can be re-run. And no, the UK's experience cannot really be directly compared with that of other nations because a pandemic is a complex adaptive system, a type of system which is extremely sensitive to initial states and inputs - i.e. where outcomes vary massively based on changes of initial state and input below the level at which measurements can be made. I think that drawing any inference from international comparisons is fraught, other than
1. timing is important, and
2. level of compliance with government guidelines/rules is much, much more important for effectiveness than the actual guidelines/rules themselves.
It had the Democrats on 46%, a Trumpite Patriots Party on 23% and the GOP on just 17% if such a Patriots Party was formed by Trump. Very conservative voters would vote 55% Patriots to just 24% GOP.
https://twitter.com/DaveAtherton20/status/1353983112628359168?s=20
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/shock-poll-trump-patriot-party-would-win-almost-quarter-voters-drop-gop
In such a nightmare scenario for the GOP they may as well go the whole hog and support PR for Congress
No idea if this rings true?
Maybe as likely as some NHS office workers being co-opted into ICU to help out.
I don't know why Johnson doesn't announce it in the HoC first then do the press conference....
And as its a Public Health issue Scotland could do what it wants now
And for ease of reference let's call this demographic "Little Englanders".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55808324