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CNN reporting that McConnell is privately saying he wants Trump gone – politicalbetting.com

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,711

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,432
    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Good for you. But in central London, in relatively small flats (and in other cities), storing weeks' worth of food is not really an option,

    PLUS, I have developed a Covid-era passion for cooking really elaborate, restaurant-style seafood meals; Which requires nearly daily visits to a fishmongers (or my local M&S, which is surprisingly good at fresh fish).

    I reckon I could now cook a pro Masterchef round 1 seafood course, and be mildly praised. But no more than that. I am not an imaginative cook, but I have learned to follow quite tricky recipes. It is just science applied to food.

    It also uses up loads of time, and involves lots of handicraft - chopping, slicing, dicing - which I find oddly soothing in this season of mental trouble.
    And presumably you have lots of leftover flint to use as fish tools?
    Flint is a tough mistress. Turbot is kinder.
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Scaremonger article. (Almost) everyone goes to a supermarket....
    Well they should try not to go.
    I fitted it in a (brief-ish) visit to Sainsbury's as part of my walk for quite a few Sundays in late November and in December, but haven't been since Sunday 3rd Jan. Now I make do with walking in the local park.

    We have managed to get Tesco delivery slots every month since April, though.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,711
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Good for you. But in central London, in relatively small flats (and in other cities), storing weeks' worth of food is not really an option,

    PLUS, I have developed a Covid-era passion for cooking really elaborate, restaurant-style seafood meals; Which requires nearly daily visits to a fishmongers (or my local M&S, which is surprisingly good at fresh fish).

    I reckon I could now cook a pro Masterchef round 1 seafood course, and be mildly praised. But no more than that. I am not an imaginative cook, but I have learned to follow quite tricky recipes. It is just science applied to food.

    It also uses up loads of time, and involves lots of handicraft - chopping, slicing, dicing - which I find oddly soothing in this season of mental trouble.
    Cooking is quite therapeutic. One of the few pleasures of lockdown is rediscovering domestic pleasures.

    I have put on a stone over the year though.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    Yep, but you can bet stories like this will be blown out of all proportion.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,432
    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed
  • Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,711
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    Yep, but you can bet stories like this will be blown out of all proportion.
    In the study, no vaccinated patient was severely affected, so it is noteworthy.
  • Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    And ill 3 weeks, means caught it 2 weeks ago.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    Yep, but you can bet stories like this will be blown out of all proportion.
    In the study, no vaccinated patient was severely affected, so it is noteworthy.
    Is it? The sample size is now orders of magnitude greater.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Good for you. But in central London, in relatively small flats (and in other cities), storing weeks' worth of food is not really an option,

    PLUS, I have developed a Covid-era passion for cooking really elaborate, restaurant-style seafood meals; Which requires nearly daily visits to a fishmongers (or my local M&S, which is surprisingly good at fresh fish).

    I reckon I could now cook a pro Masterchef round 1 seafood course, and be mildly praised. But no more than that. I am not an imaginative cook, but I have learned to follow quite tricky recipes. It is just science applied to food.

    It also uses up loads of time, and involves lots of handicraft - chopping, slicing, dicing - which I find oddly soothing in this season of mental trouble.
    Cooking is quite therapeutic. One of the few pleasures of lockdown is rediscovering domestic pleasures.

    I have put on a stone over the year though.
    I have lost weight - so I have been told - due to my super healthy lockdown walking regime.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    RobD said:

    Yep, but you can bet stories like this will be blown out of all proportion.

    Today the CMO and CSA were making the point that even if one dose is not as effective as two, and no vaccine is 100% effective, the key aim of our current approach is to limit serious illness and death, and so far all of the vaccines seem to do well on that score.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Good for you. But in central London, in relatively small flats (and in other cities), storing weeks' worth of food is not really an option,

    PLUS, I have developed a Covid-era passion for cooking really elaborate, restaurant-style seafood meals; Which requires nearly daily visits to a fishmongers (or my local M&S, which is surprisingly good at fresh fish).

    I reckon I could now cook a pro Masterchef round 1 seafood course, and be mildly praised. But no more than that. I am not an imaginative cook, but I have learned to follow quite tricky recipes. It is just science applied to food.

    It also uses up loads of time, and involves lots of handicraft - chopping, slicing, dicing - which I find oddly soothing in this season of mental trouble.
    Cooking is quite therapeutic. One of the few pleasures of lockdown is rediscovering domestic pleasures.

    I have put on a stone over the year though.
    I totally agree.

    And would have put on a stone but for the Peloton....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    And ill 3 weeks, means caught it 2 weeks ago.
    So an even lower efficacy than 95%.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Scaremonger article. (Almost) everyone goes to a supermarket....
    Well they should try not to go.
    Not a realistic option for the bulk of the population.
    Delivery. Click and collect. Not unrealistic for many of us.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,090
    edited January 2021
    Mail view...still the EU fault....then as with much of the coverage under the new management of the Mail, it is swung around to blaming Boris as well.

    French customs officials' post-Brexit dirty tricks on British fish are revealed: Lorries are being impounded because a full-stop is misplaced or a box's declared weight is a kilo out, writes DAVID JONES

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9177853/French-customs-officials-post-Brexit-dirty-tricks-British-fish-DAVID-JONES-reveals.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,432
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Good for you. But in central London, in relatively small flats (and in other cities), storing weeks' worth of food is not really an option,

    PLUS, I have developed a Covid-era passion for cooking really elaborate, restaurant-style seafood meals; Which requires nearly daily visits to a fishmongers (or my local M&S, which is surprisingly good at fresh fish).

    I reckon I could now cook a pro Masterchef round 1 seafood course, and be mildly praised. But no more than that. I am not an imaginative cook, but I have learned to follow quite tricky recipes. It is just science applied to food.

    It also uses up loads of time, and involves lots of handicraft - chopping, slicing, dicing - which I find oddly soothing in this season of mental trouble.
    Cooking is quite therapeutic. One of the few pleasures of lockdown is rediscovering domestic pleasures.

    I have put on a stone over the year though.
    I empathise, greatly (in all senses). But I cannot recommend HIIT enough. I have told all my friends about it (the ones that didn't know already) and most have airily ignored it but every single one that TRIED it has said OMFG you're right!

    You can do it at home. You need no gym. No equipment. Just a yoga mat at most.

    It lifts the mood, it flattens the stomach, and it BURNS the calories. You will end up doing it daily just for the buzz. Combine it with a daily walk: sorted. But it can also replace a walk in vile winter weather

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR4X4XwlA_c
  • Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Good for you. But in central London, in relatively small flats (and in other cities), storing weeks' worth of food is not really an option,

    PLUS, I have developed a Covid-era passion for cooking really elaborate, restaurant-style seafood meals; Which requires nearly daily visits to a fishmongers (or my local M&S, which is surprisingly good at fresh fish).

    I reckon I could now cook a pro Masterchef round 1 seafood course, and be mildly praised. But no more than that. I am not an imaginative cook, but I have learned to follow quite tricky recipes. It is just science applied to food.

    It also uses up loads of time, and involves lots of handicraft - chopping, slicing, dicing - which I find oddly soothing in this season of mental trouble.
    And presumably you have lots of leftover flint to use as fish tools?
    Flint is a tough mistress. Turbot is kinder.
    You've got no sole?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A plan with no real downsides for them, win or lose in court.
    It's not a plan, it's Nicola trying to save her skin by throwing the nutters some red meat.
    Might well be, but the SNP will either succeed, or have a grievance to use, so who cares about Nicola?
    Anyone who wants the SNP to be remotely electable.
    You think if she goes they won't win big anymore? I'd like to think so but I'm not that optimistic.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,711
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    Yep, but you can bet stories like this will be blown out of all proportion.
    In the study, no vaccinated patient was severely affected, so it is noteworthy.
    Is it? The sample size is now orders of magnitude greater.
    Yes, so we should be looking carefully at our own national figures. The numbers in the trials were quite small.
  • RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    And ill 3 weeks, means caught it 2 weeks ago.
    So an even lower efficacy than 95%.
    You can't really say anything like that from an anecdote about a single case.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Why hasn't the Olympics been cancelled? More chance of Sheffield United staying up than the Olympics going ahead.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    Yep, but you can bet stories like this will be blown out of all proportion.
    In the study, no vaccinated patient was severely affected, so it is noteworthy.
    Is it? The sample size is now orders of magnitude greater.
    Plus, if this person was admitted today and had the jab three weeks ago, then the time taken to become ill enough to go to hospital must be factored in.

    iirc vaccines take at least two weeks to get going on the immune response. This person probably caught the virus initially at least a week ago and probably longer. So well within the time the vaccine was not getting going.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited January 2021
    Foxy said:

    I just cannot raise the effort to get upset at the re-siting of Winston Churchill's bust

    As someone who lay in his Mothers arms in Greater Manchester, under a steel table, as Hitler's v bombs roared overhead, one stopping directly above resulting in the death of six of our neighbours, I and the country owe a huge debt to Winston Churchill

    However, I do not see the location of his bust in the oval office a matter of any consequence to be fair in the overall scheme of things

    Personally am glad that there is no one looking over MY shoulder when I rearrange the brick-a-brac in my (approximately square) office.
    I have quite a big Betsy Ross flag in my office, alongside my collection of wierd things that patients have given me over the years, from a signed LCFC football, a Royal Tank Regiment mug and a large copper key rack from Zambia amongst others.

    MS Teams and Zoom have given me multiple opportunities to show them off. I find it adds just the right level of absurdity to meetings.
    Cool. My most notable office adornment is my Solidarność banner, signed by participants of a campaign school I helped do back in the 1990s for Solidarity Election Action, before it split into factions (sane and crazy).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,696
    Foreign freedom fighters have arrived in America.
    https://twitter.com/douglascarswell/status/1352719334481784834?s=21
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,711

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Good for you. But in central London, in relatively small flats (and in other cities), storing weeks' worth of food is not really an option,

    PLUS, I have developed a Covid-era passion for cooking really elaborate, restaurant-style seafood meals; Which requires nearly daily visits to a fishmongers (or my local M&S, which is surprisingly good at fresh fish).

    I reckon I could now cook a pro Masterchef round 1 seafood course, and be mildly praised. But no more than that. I am not an imaginative cook, but I have learned to follow quite tricky recipes. It is just science applied to food.

    It also uses up loads of time, and involves lots of handicraft - chopping, slicing, dicing - which I find oddly soothing in this season of mental trouble.
    And presumably you have lots of leftover flint to use as fish tools?
    Flint is a tough mistress. Turbot is kinder.
    You've got no sole?
    There is no plaice for such accusations.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,432

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    Just out of curiosity, is there a bust of Franklin Roosevelt in the Prime Minister's office. Surely at some point, but now?

    Think FDR is to UK, what WSC is to US: a VERY positive figure, greatly admired, with MUCH less criticism than at home.

    There is no bust of FDR in the PM's office.

    As our site's resident American just how badly will Biden lose the 2024 election because he removed Churchill's bust?

    GOP gain California?
    NO BUST OF FDR IN THE PM'S OFFICE?!?!

    Think that Churchill would be outraged!

    Was there EVER an FDR bust in the PM's office, and if so, which PM removed it? American wants to know!!
    There is no equivalent of the Oval Office so different Prime Ministers set up office in different rooms at Number 10.
    So the First Lord of the Treasury works out of a cubicle? OK, does Boris have ANY Rooseveltian mementos within eyesight somewhere in No. 10? Maybe in the executive WC?
    Churchill won the War single-handedly, you see. FDR had no part to play :lol:
    Well, he held the fort until December 1941. 27 months.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,090
    edited January 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
    There was a report the other day that in Lisbon had 3 critical care beds left in the whole city and that would be gone by the end of the day. And that is after they doubled capacity over the past few months.

    Hopefully they don't get to this stage,

    No point going to hospital in Manaus as no beds, just queue up for your bottle of oxygen to take home..

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-latin-america-55757085
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,432

    Why hasn't the Olympics been cancelled? More chance of Sheffield United staying up than the Olympics going ahead.

    Because it means Japan has to write off £25bn and more.

    Of course they will be cancelled, but who wants to be the woman or man to say this to the city, the nation (or the bankers)

    Worth noting, however, that the Japanese people are totally against holding them. Polls say 80% of Jpanaese want the Games shelved.

    They won't happen.

    The new idea is that Tokyo will be granted the games in 2032 to make up for it, which seems a kind and worthy thing to do. Who could object?

    The pessimist in me wonders if Paris 2024 might be in a tiny bit of jeopardy. God knows, I hope I am wrong
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,711

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
    There was a report the other day that in Lisbon had ICU 3 beds left in the whole city and that would be gone by the end of the day.
    Portugal is one of the few European countries with fewer ICU beds per capita than us.

    Mind you, in Leicester we running ICU at over 150% of capacity, anticipating 200% next week.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A plan with no real downsides for them, win or lose in court.
    It's not a plan, it's Nicola trying to save her skin by throwing the nutters some red meat.
    Might well be, but the SNP will either succeed, or have a grievance to use, so who cares about Nicola?
    Anyone who wants the SNP to be remotely electable.
    You think if she goes they won't win big anymore? I'd like to think so but I'm not that optimistic.
    I think the alternatives must be deeply depressing (if you're the SNP). I think Malc is mad to want to get rid of her to be replaced by a Salmond-puppet or even the man himself - she's keeping the show on the road. However, it's not really within anyone's control any more. She made a huge mistake by stabbing Salmond in the back, but failing to destroy him - Machiavelli advised that you had to utterly destroy your enemy, not antagonise them. She tried to send him to prison - now he's going to get her. It's possible he may want that more than independence itself.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
    Yeah, but can I go to the Algarve at Easter?
  • Foreign freedom fighters have arrived in America.
    https://twitter.com/douglascarswell/status/1352719334481784834?s=21

    Freedom to do what? Drive people completely bonkers and get a mob to hang the vice president? Not sure those were the freedoms the founding fathers had in mind.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,996
    edited January 2021

    Foreign freedom fighters have arrived in America.
    https://twitter.com/douglascarswell/status/1352719334481784834?s=21

    Rockin’ the Cruz beard, possibly tactical underpants also.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,090
    edited January 2021
    Very bad news...

    Half a million fewer vaccines being supplied to NHS next week

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/22/exclusive-half-million-fewer-vaccines-supplied-nhs-next-week/

    Be lucky to be doing 400k / day next week.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,711

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
    There was a report the other day that in Lisbon had 3 critical care beds left in the whole city and that would be gone by the end of the day. And that is after they doubled capacity over the past few months.

    Hopefully they don't get to this stage,

    No point going to hospital in Manaus as no beds, just queue up for your bottle of oxygen to take home..

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-latin-america-55757085
    One of our Nigerian nurses lost 2 sisters and his mother back home to covid this week.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,432

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
    Yeah, but can I go to the Algarve at Easter?
    No
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,421

    Another of my peeves. Why does the Government not say to people that they should minimise their trips to the supermarket to buy groceries? Get home delivery or click and collect whenever you can. If not, then one member of the household should go and get a big shop.

    Every time someone pops into Tesco there is a risk of infection. Don't go if you can avoid it.

    Simple stuff.

    Yes. I have had this conversation several times with my Dad, and he has gone food/newspaper shopping every day, as he always has done. And this to small, cramped local stores where the ability to keep a distance from others is zero. I haven't been able to understand it.
  • Bestsellers of the near future.

    > While England Woke

    > Decline and Fall of Declinism

    > My Struggle (by You-Know-Who)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    Why hasn't the Olympics been cancelled? More chance of Sheffield United staying up than the Olympics going ahead.

    Maybe Boris will offer a million AZ doses to zap half a million athletes, officials....okay, maybe a little leakage will happen to a few ruling parties. Shit happens. As long as every competitor and official has a vaccine passport accepted by Tokyo, we are still go.

    Worldwide fucking A1 hero.
  • Just out of curiosity, is there a bust of Franklin Roosevelt in the Prime Minister's office. Surely at some point, but now?

    Think FDR is to UK, what WSC is to US: a VERY positive figure, greatly admired, with MUCH less criticism than at home.

    There is no bust of FDR in the PM's office.

    As our site's resident American just how badly will Biden lose the 2024 election because he removed Churchill's bust?

    GOP gain California?
    NO BUST OF FDR IN THE PM'S OFFICE?!?!

    Think that Churchill would be outraged!

    Was there EVER an FDR bust in the PM's office, and if so, which PM removed it? American wants to know!!
    There is no equivalent of the Oval Office so different Prime Ministers set up office in different rooms at Number 10.
    So the First Lord of the Treasury works out of a cubicle? OK, does Boris have ANY Rooseveltian mementos within eyesight somewhere in No. 10? Maybe in the executive WC?
    Churchill won the War single-handedly, you see. FDR had no part to play :lol:
    Well, he held the fort until December 1941. 27 months.
    Yep, nothing very important happened in June ‘41.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,442
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    And ill 3 weeks, means caught it 2 weeks ago.
    So an even lower efficacy than 95%.
    How do work that out? 95 % means 1 in 20 not effective. This patient is one of those.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,711

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    And ill 3 weeks, means caught it 2 weeks ago.
    So an even lower efficacy than 95%.
    How do work that out? 95 % means 1 in 20 not effective. This patient is one of those.
    No one developed serious covid in the trials of either vaccine, apparently, so it is of interest.
  • Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal is about 50% worse than Spain population adjusted.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
    Yeah, but can I go to the Algarve at Easter?
    No
    You can go in 2023. No foreign holidays will be allowed this year or next year. No jab and go.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,442
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    And ill 3 weeks, means caught it 2 weeks ago.
    So an even lower efficacy than 95%.
    How do work that out? 95 % means 1 in 20 not effective. This patient is one of those.
    No one developed serious covid in the trials of either vaccine, apparently, so it is of interest.
    Off interest for sure, but as others have noted, the timelines allow infection before immunity had kicked in.
  • Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
    There was a report the other day that in Lisbon had 3 critical care beds left in the whole city and that would be gone by the end of the day. And that is after they doubled capacity over the past few months.

    Hopefully they don't get to this stage,

    No point going to hospital in Manaus as no beds, just queue up for your bottle of oxygen to take home..

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-latin-america-55757085
    One of our Nigerian nurses lost 2 sisters and his mother back home to covid this week.
    Nigeria is getting about a hundred covid deaths per week - if you think the numbers are accurate:

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/nigeria/

    If covid can rage along the Amazon why not the Congo, if Rio why not Lagos.

    Do people have views as to what the actual African covid situation is ?
  • Just out of curiosity, is there a bust of Franklin Roosevelt in the Prime Minister's office. Surely at some point, but now?

    Think FDR is to UK, what WSC is to US: a VERY positive figure, greatly admired, with MUCH less criticism than at home.

    There is no bust of FDR in the PM's office.

    As our site's resident American just how badly will Biden lose the 2024 election because he removed Churchill's bust?

    GOP gain California?
    NO BUST OF FDR IN THE PM'S OFFICE?!?!

    Think that Churchill would be outraged!

    Was there EVER an FDR bust in the PM's office, and if so, which PM removed it? American wants to know!!
    There is no equivalent of the Oval Office so different Prime Ministers set up office in different rooms at Number 10.
    So the First Lord of the Treasury works out of a cubicle? OK, does Boris have ANY Rooseveltian mementos within eyesight somewhere in No. 10? Maybe in the executive WC?
    Churchill won the War single-handedly, you see. FDR had no part to play :lol:
    There is a sculpture of FDR and WSC sitting together on a bench. Can't remember where though. Somewhere in London.
  • Foreign freedom fighters have arrived in America.
    https://twitter.com/douglascarswell/status/1352719334481784834?s=21

    Carwell will be fighting, side by side with some of the Magnolia State's best and brightest segregation academy graduates, for the freedom of shysters, polluters, lobbyists and other social-Darwinist land pirates.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Scaremonger article. (Almost) everyone goes to a supermarket....
    Well they should try not to go.
    Not a realistic option for the bulk of the population.
    Delivery. Click and collect. Not unrealistic for many of us.
    What's the total home delivery capacity of the UK grocery sector? Enough for 10%, perhaps 15% of total sales? If our experience and that of relatives is anything to go by then slots often can't be got for love nor money, and when you can get them the deliveries are frequently full of missing items, short-dated items picked from the front of the shelf and sub-optimal or downright useless substitutions.

    Click and collect also has limited capacity and is of little or no value to non-drivers, and both home delivery and click and collect services accrue minimum spends and/or charges that you don't have to pay if you turn up in person.

    Consequently, most people, most of the time are obliged to go to a shop.
  • Very bad news...

    Half a million fewer vaccines being supplied to NHS next week

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/22/exclusive-half-million-fewer-vaccines-supplied-nhs-next-week/

    Be lucky to be doing 400k / day next week.

    Up to.

    We cannot say how much of a reduction and how much expectation management is involved here.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,866
    edited January 2021
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    Yep, but you can bet stories like this will be blown out of all proportion.
    In the study, no vaccinated patient was severely affected, so it is noteworthy.
    Actually there was one case in the Pfizer vaccine arm after two doses, but not enough to be hospitalised. Only Moderna had no severe cases. AZ had one as well.

    Also, the timing of that seems like the infection date was probably just a few days after the vaccine was administered and we know it takes at least two weeks for some level or effectiveness.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
    Yeah, but can I go to the Algarve at Easter?
    No
    You can go in 2023. No foreign holidays will be allowed this year or next year. No jab and go.
    Indeed. Devi on Newsnight just mentioned a year or two of travel restrictions would be needed to keep new variants out.

    Meanwhile there seems to be a dodgy mutant cluster on Merseyside.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Thanks @Leon. Will try that.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
    Yeah, but can I go to the Algarve at Easter?
    No
    You can go in 2023. No foreign holidays will be allowed this year or next year. No jab and go.
    Indeed. Devi on Newsnight just mentioned a year or two of travel restrictions would be needed to keep new variants out.

    Meanwhile there seems to be a dodgy mutant cluster on Merseyside.
    "a dodgy mutant cluster on Merseyside"

    Do you mean Liverpool?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    edited January 2021

    Just out of curiosity, is there a bust of Franklin Roosevelt in the Prime Minister's office. Surely at some point, but now?

    Think FDR is to UK, what WSC is to US: a VERY positive figure, greatly admired, with MUCH less criticism than at home.

    There is no bust of FDR in the PM's office.

    As our site's resident American just how badly will Biden lose the 2024 election because he removed Churchill's bust?

    GOP gain California?
    NO BUST OF FDR IN THE PM'S OFFICE?!?!

    Think that Churchill would be outraged!

    Was there EVER an FDR bust in the PM's office, and if so, which PM removed it? American wants to know!!
    There is no equivalent of the Oval Office so different Prime Ministers set up office in different rooms at Number 10.
    So the First Lord of the Treasury works out of a cubicle? OK, does Boris have ANY Rooseveltian mementos within eyesight somewhere in No. 10? Maybe in the executive WC?
    Churchill won the War single-handedly, you see. FDR had no part to play :lol:
    Well, he held the fort until December 1941. 27 months.
    Yep, nothing very important happened in June ‘41.
    But summer 1941 was when the U-boat wolfpacks really got their shit together. While the German army and airforce went east, the Atlantic got very hot....
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Mail view...still the EU fault....then as with much of the coverage under the new management of the Mail, it is swung around to blaming Boris as well.

    French customs officials' post-Brexit dirty tricks on British fish are revealed: Lorries are being impounded because a full-stop is misplaced or a box's declared weight is a kilo out, writes DAVID JONES

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9177853/French-customs-officials-post-Brexit-dirty-tricks-British-fish-DAVID-JONES-reveals.html

    Surely they’re just taking back control?
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
    Yeah, but can I go to the Algarve at Easter?
    No
    You can go in 2023. No foreign holidays will be allowed this year or next year. No jab and go.
    Indeed. Devi on Newsnight just mentioned a year or two of travel restrictions would be needed to keep new variants out.

    Meanwhile there seems to be a dodgy mutant cluster on Merseyside.
    Dodgy mutant cluster....otherwise known as scallies...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Foreign freedom fighters have arrived in America.
    https://twitter.com/douglascarswell/status/1352719334481784834?s=21

    Freedom to do what? Drive people completely bonkers and get a mob to hang the vice president? Not sure those were the freedoms the founding fathers had in mind.
    Well they were very much in favour of rising up and overthrowing the government and system of the day, just not their system, so really it's a matter of perspective. Is probably what those on the Trump assault would say.

    Very bad news...

    Half a million fewer vaccines being supplied to NHS next week

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/22/exclusive-half-million-fewer-vaccines-supplied-nhs-next-week/

    Be lucky to be doing 400k / day next week.

    Only half a million fewer is honestly better news than I had expected.

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Good for you. But in central London, in relatively small flats (and in other cities), storing weeks' worth of food is not really an option,

    PLUS, I have developed a Covid-era passion for cooking really elaborate, restaurant-style seafood meals; Which requires nearly daily visits to a fishmongers (or my local M&S, which is surprisingly good at fresh fish).

    I reckon I could now cook a pro Masterchef round 1 seafood course, and be mildly praised. But no more than that. I am not an imaginative cook, but I have learned to follow quite tricky recipes. It is just science applied to food.

    It also uses up loads of time, and involves lots of handicraft - chopping, slicing, dicing - which I find oddly soothing in this season of mental trouble.
    And presumably you have lots of leftover flint to use as fish tools?
    Flint is a tough mistress. Turbot is kinder.
    You've got no sole?
    No need to carp at him.
  • Just out of curiosity, is there a bust of Franklin Roosevelt in the Prime Minister's office. Surely at some point, but now?

    Think FDR is to UK, what WSC is to US: a VERY positive figure, greatly admired, with MUCH less criticism than at home.

    There is no bust of FDR in the PM's office.

    As our site's resident American just how badly will Biden lose the 2024 election because he removed Churchill's bust?

    GOP gain California?
    NO BUST OF FDR IN THE PM'S OFFICE?!?!

    Think that Churchill would be outraged!

    Was there EVER an FDR bust in the PM's office, and if so, which PM removed it? American wants to know!!
    There is no equivalent of the Oval Office so different Prime Ministers set up office in different rooms at Number 10.
    So the First Lord of the Treasury works out of a cubicle? OK, does Boris have ANY Rooseveltian mementos within eyesight somewhere in No. 10? Maybe in the executive WC?
    Churchill won the War single-handedly, you see. FDR had no part to play :lol:
    There is a sculpture of FDR and WSC sitting together on a bench. Can't remember where though. Somewhere in London.
    Personally think their is strong evidence (which I've just received via my tinfoil helmet) that there WAS a bust of FDR prominently featured at No. 10 Downing St, until it was removed by MARGARET THATCHER in an attempt to curry favor with new POTUS Ronald Reagan.

    NOT knowing that a) Ronnie was a BIG New Dealer back in the day; and b) FDR was one of his presidential role models (sort of).
  • Just out of curiosity, is there a bust of Franklin Roosevelt in the Prime Minister's office. Surely at some point, but now?

    Think FDR is to UK, what WSC is to US: a VERY positive figure, greatly admired, with MUCH less criticism than at home.

    There is no bust of FDR in the PM's office.

    As our site's resident American just how badly will Biden lose the 2024 election because he removed Churchill's bust?

    GOP gain California?
    NO BUST OF FDR IN THE PM'S OFFICE?!?!

    Think that Churchill would be outraged!

    Was there EVER an FDR bust in the PM's office, and if so, which PM removed it? American wants to know!!
    There is no equivalent of the Oval Office so different Prime Ministers set up office in different rooms at Number 10.
    So the First Lord of the Treasury works out of a cubicle? OK, does Boris have ANY Rooseveltian mementos within eyesight somewhere in No. 10? Maybe in the executive WC?
    Churchill won the War single-handedly, you see. FDR had no part to play :lol:
    There is a sculpture of FDR and WSC sitting together on a bench. Can't remember where though. Somewhere in London.
    New Bond Street

    I rather like that. Nice sculpture

    https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMTDX5_Churchill_and_Roosevelt_New_Bond_Street_London_UK
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Scaremonger article. (Almost) everyone goes to a supermarket....
    Well they should try not to go.
    Not a realistic option for the bulk of the population.
    Delivery. Click and collect. Not unrealistic for many of us.
    What's the total home delivery capacity of the UK grocery sector? Enough for 10%, perhaps 15% of total sales? If our experience and that of relatives is anything to go by then slots often can't be got for love nor money, and when you can get them the deliveries are frequently full of missing items, short-dated items picked from the front of the shelf and sub-optimal or downright useless substitutions.

    Click and collect also has limited capacity and is of little or no value to non-drivers, and both home delivery and click and collect services accrue minimum spends and/or charges that you don't have to pay if you turn up in person.

    Consequently, most people, most of the time are obliged to go to a shop.
    You don't need a car for click and collect. You can say no to substitutions. Sometimes you get the short dated items for free.

    This evening I booked a delivery slot for a week on Monday. No problem.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
    Yeah, but can I go to the Algarve at Easter?
    No
    You can go in 2023. No foreign holidays will be allowed this year or next year. No jab and go.
    Indeed. Devi on Newsnight just mentioned a year or two of travel restrictions would be needed to keep new variants out.

    Meanwhile there seems to be a dodgy mutant cluster on Merseyside.
    "a dodgy mutant cluster on Merseyside"

    Do you mean Liverpool?
    There or thereabouts.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,711

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Portugal also hit a record yesterday
    I have a close friend in Portugal. Her detailed report is that the situation is now "fucking dire"
    There was a report the other day that in Lisbon had 3 critical care beds left in the whole city and that would be gone by the end of the day. And that is after they doubled capacity over the past few months.

    Hopefully they don't get to this stage,

    No point going to hospital in Manaus as no beds, just queue up for your bottle of oxygen to take home..

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-latin-america-55757085
    One of our Nigerian nurses lost 2 sisters and his mother back home to covid this week.
    Nigeria is getting about a hundred covid deaths per week - if you think the numbers are accurate:

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/nigeria/

    If covid can rage along the Amazon why not the Congo, if Rio why not Lagos.

    Do people have views as to what the actual African covid situation is ?
    Pretty bad in parts. Malawi lost two cabinet ministers last week.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-19-kills-four-senior-malawi-officials-day-infections-skyrocket/
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Scaremonger article. (Almost) everyone goes to a supermarket....
    Well they should try not to go.
    Not a realistic option for the bulk of the population.
    Delivery. Click and collect. Not unrealistic for many of us.
    What's the total home delivery capacity of the UK grocery sector? Enough for 10%, perhaps 15% of total sales? If our experience and that of relatives is anything to go by then slots often can't be got for love nor money, and when you can get them the deliveries are frequently full of missing items, short-dated items picked from the front of the shelf and sub-optimal or downright useless substitutions.

    Click and collect also has limited capacity and is of little or no value to non-drivers, and both home delivery and click and collect services accrue minimum spends and/or charges that you don't have to pay if you turn up in person.

    Consequently, most people, most of the time are obliged to go to a shop.
    Not our experience up here. Slots easy to get. A few substitutions. No problem really.
    BUT. We are very rural. So the infrastructure was there already. Almost everyone used weekly deliveries pre-pandemic.
    Tough to "pop out" easily when the nearest supermarket is 10 miles away. And impossible for those without cars.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    rpjs said:

    Mail view...still the EU fault....then as with much of the coverage under the new management of the Mail, it is swung around to blaming Boris as well.

    French customs officials' post-Brexit dirty tricks on British fish are revealed: Lorries are being impounded because a full-stop is misplaced or a box's declared weight is a kilo out, writes DAVID JONES

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9177853/French-customs-officials-post-Brexit-dirty-tricks-British-fish-DAVID-JONES-reveals.html

    Surely they’re just taking back control?
    Exercising their sovereignty?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    A plan with no real downsides for them, win or lose in court.
    Although stating it is a “legal referendum” doesn’t make it so. One wonders why they feel the need to stress it so much.
  • Fenman said:

    rpjs said:

    Mail view...still the EU fault....then as with much of the coverage under the new management of the Mail, it is swung around to blaming Boris as well.

    French customs officials' post-Brexit dirty tricks on British fish are revealed: Lorries are being impounded because a full-stop is misplaced or a box's declared weight is a kilo out, writes DAVID JONES

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9177853/French-customs-officials-post-Brexit-dirty-tricks-British-fish-DAVID-JONES-reveals.html

    Surely they’re just taking back control?
    Exercising their sovereignty?
    Perhaps it is high time to reassert the traditional English claim to the kingdom of France?

    As a side benefit, would out-fox the SNP by making the Union consistent with the Auld Alliance!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Fenman said:

    rpjs said:

    Mail view...still the EU fault....then as with much of the coverage under the new management of the Mail, it is swung around to blaming Boris as well.

    French customs officials' post-Brexit dirty tricks on British fish are revealed: Lorries are being impounded because a full-stop is misplaced or a box's declared weight is a kilo out, writes DAVID JONES

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9177853/French-customs-officials-post-Brexit-dirty-tricks-British-fish-DAVID-JONES-reveals.html

    Surely they’re just taking back control?
    Exercising their sovereignty?
    Perhaps it is high time to reassert the traditional English claim to the kingdom of France?

    As a side benefit, would out-fox the SNP by making the Union consistent with the Auld Alliance!
    What kind of country would break international law so blatantly? The Treaty of Troyes is quite explicit.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    The problem is Andrew Sullivan is British and understands the need to be conciliatory and to find ways of compromising with people you don't agree with, whereas most Americans in politics seem to have forgotten how to do that.
  • Andy_JS said:

    The problem is Andrew Sullivan is British and understands the need to be conciliatory and to find ways of compromising with people you don't agree with, whereas most Americans in politics seem to have forgotten how to do that.
    bwahahahahaha
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    We've got the equivalent of tier 4 here now: no schools, don't go shopping unless you have to, etc.

    The restrictions are a bit weaker than the UK, but (combined with Christmas being over) it's enough to see cases fall pretty quickly. LA County (plus Long Beach and Pasadena) cases have dropped from close to 20k/day to about 9k. That's still a lot of cases (although we do need to remember LA County has 12 million people).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    rcs1000 said:

    We've got the equivalent of tier 4 here now: no schools, don't go shopping unless you have to, etc.

    The restrictions are a bit weaker than the UK, but (combined with Christmas being over) it's enough to see cases fall pretty quickly. LA County (plus Long Beach and Pasadena) cases have dropped from close to 20k/day to about 9k. That's still a lot of cases (although we do need to remember LA County has 12 million people).
    Separately, last time I looked there were no critical beds available in the whole of Southern California.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    edited January 2021
    That's equivalent to about 1,300 in the UK, since our population is 68m and California's is almost 40m,
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    Yep, but you can bet stories like this will be blown out of all proportion.
    In the study, no vaccinated patient was severely affected, so it is noteworthy.
    Actually there was one case in the Pfizer vaccine arm after two doses, but not enough to be hospitalised. Only Moderna had no severe cases. AZ had one as well.

    Also, the timing of that seems like the infection date was probably just a few days after the vaccine was administered and we know it takes at least two weeks for some level or effectiveness.
    I read an article in the Jerusalem Post about how difficult it is to stop people basically ignoring all the restrictions after they've been vaccinated. People tend to think they're invincible and don't realise you need to shield for at least one more week to see any effectiveness from the vaccine, and to get full protection it's more like 3 to 6.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    Floater said:
    That is just by the big Los Angeles covid vaccination site at Dodger Stadium.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Why isn't their strict lockdown working? Strange.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited January 2021

    Thanks for tips on previous thread, all.

    I don't think I could cut out all alcohol right now. Life is too boring and the days are too short. Maybe I could shift to beer to wine, though.

    I like the low carbs in the evening. I need to think more about exercise.

    Calorie counting and weighing doesn't work for me. I obsess about food and weight and get obsessive/disllusioned too easily. And I'd rather die than just eat plants - I need a balanced diet where I can eat meat too. .

    I should probably cut out takeaways and processed food and get on the bike for at least an hour a day. And eat more eggs with meals for the long burn?

    Join a cycling club and learn how to suffer. I have known many people who take up cycling to lose weight and few succeed. Not many people can force themselves into red zone and stay there while riding alone. When you've got 8 others screaming at you to get on the front and do a 10km pull at 32km/h into a head wind you'll do it.

    When people ask me how I'm so thin (I weigh the same as I did when I was 18) it's my sad duty to inform them that it's a combination of: no alcohol (tot of pusser's on Taranto Night and that's it for the year), no meat, no sugar, no dairy and 20,000km/year on the bike.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Another of my peeves. Why does the Government not say to people that they should minimise their trips to the supermarket to buy groceries? Get home delivery or click and collect whenever you can. If not, then one member of the household should go and get a big shop.

    Every time someone pops into Tesco there is a risk of infection. Don't go if you can avoid it.

    Simple stuff.

    There’s nothing else to do?

    I used to loathe going to the supermarket, now it’s a day out.

    It has become a form of entertainment, as bizarre as that might sound.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    Yep, but you can bet stories like this will be blown out of all proportion.
    Yes, even if a vaccine is 95% effective, 1 in 20 will become infected. Assuming the entire vaccine cohort in the UK is ~46million, that will be 2.3 million such cases...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,432
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Why isn't their strict lockdown working? Strange.
    They clearly have the Portuguese/Brazilian variant, perhaps with a dash of Kent
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,432
    Andy_JS said:

    The problem is Andrew Sullivan is British and understands the need to be conciliatory and to find ways of compromising with people you don't agree with, whereas most Americans in politics seem to have forgotten how to do that.
    A brilliant essay. Depressingly accurate.

    Sleepy Joe Biden isn't going to Heal America, his pathetic, decrepit Wokeism will make the divisions worse.

    Which brings to mind the Ultimate Nightmare Scenario. What if the Republicans, in response, find a young, articulate, non-insane version of Trump? A kind of populist, quasi-white-supremacist JFK, also appealing to religious or right-wing Hispanics and blacks, seen in a mirror? Then he will win, I am sure. And then all bets are off.

    America will go truly populist-hard right. And square up to China. Eeek.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,090
    edited January 2021
    So we now our own version of Brazilian Bum Covid in Liverpool...great...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The problem is Andrew Sullivan is British and understands the need to be conciliatory and to find ways of compromising with people you don't agree with, whereas most Americans in politics seem to have forgotten how to do that.
    A brilliant essay. Depressingly accurate.

    Sleepy Joe Biden isn't going to Heal America, his pathetic, decrepit Wokeism will make the divisions worse.

    Which brings to mind the Ultimate Nightmare Scenario. What if the Republicans, in response, find a young, articulate, non-insane version of Trump? A kind of populist, quasi-white-supremacist JFK, also appealing to religious or right-wing Hispanics and blacks, seen in a mirror? Then he will win, I am sure. And then all bets are off.

    America will go truly populist-hard right. And square up to China. Eeek.
    Sullivan's description of Biden's immigration proposals are not very accurate: the "path to citizenship" for Dreamers and those who've been in the US more than 11 years are very long and would only really apply to a fairly small proportion of illegal immigrants (how many have filed tax returns, really?) Indeed, a cynic would say that Biden has proposed something that sounds radical but will have very little real effect.
  • Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Spain had 42,000 new cases today. A record.

    They are headed for nearly 1000+ deaths a day in about a fortnight. Guaranteed

    Why isn't their strict lockdown working? Strange.
    They clearly have the Portuguese/Brazilian variant, perhaps with a dash of Kent
    Sounds like a post-COVID dance craze - might even rival the Rumba and the Funky Chicken.

    On serious note, am sorry for Portugal. This is like War of the Worlds. And we are all Ground Zero.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The problem is Andrew Sullivan is British and understands the need to be conciliatory and to find ways of compromising with people you don't agree with, whereas most Americans in politics seem to have forgotten how to do that.
    A brilliant essay. Depressingly accurate.

    Sleepy Joe Biden isn't going to Heal America, his pathetic, decrepit Wokeism will make the divisions worse.

    Which brings to mind the Ultimate Nightmare Scenario. What if the Republicans, in response, find a young, articulate, non-insane version of Trump? A kind of populist, quasi-white-supremacist JFK, also appealing to religious or right-wing Hispanics and blacks, seen in a mirror? Then he will win, I am sure. And then all bets are off.

    America will go truly populist-hard right. And square up to China. Eeek.
    Sullivan's description of Biden's immigration proposals are not very accurate: the "path to citizenship" for Dreamers and those who've been in the US more than 11 years are very long and would only really apply to a fairly small proportion of illegal immigrants (how many have filed tax returns, really?) Indeed, a cynic would say that Biden has proposed something that sounds radical but will have very little real effect.
    True. But he's no doubt thinking of how his GOP buddies are gonna spin this. And spin doctors are often among the first to become baffled by their own bullshit, and convinced that everybody naturally agrees with their way of thinking.

    Thus limited process you describe = "opening the floodgates" or words to that affect.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    TimT said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
    One of my colleagues admitted a symptomatic covid patient today, who had a vaccine 3 weeks ago. Probably Pfizer, as nearly all were at that time.
    The patient must be absolutely gutted but obviously none of these vaccines are 100%.
    Yep, but you can bet stories like this will be blown out of all proportion.
    Yes, even if a vaccine is 95% effective, 1 in 20 will become infected. Assuming the entire vaccine cohort in the UK is ~46million, that will be 2.3 million such cases...
    No, it will be far fewer. First, once we get to 60-70% infected or successfully vaccinated, the disease will die out, and a significant proportion of the population will never be infected.

    Second, only some small percentage of those who fail to mount an immune response to a vaccine AND who get infected will present with symptoms sufficient to land them in hospital per Foxy's story. So there will be nowhere near 2.3 million SUCH cases. Potentially, 2.3 million won't have effective vaccinations. But you are right to imply that the absolute number of such cases could be quite significant.
    Yes, I realised latterly that my numbers would require everyone without protection to catch it from somewhere (which even now is odds against!).

    But you caught my drift! :)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The problem is Andrew Sullivan is British and understands the need to be conciliatory and to find ways of compromising with people you don't agree with, whereas most Americans in politics seem to have forgotten how to do that.
    A brilliant essay. Depressingly accurate.

    Sleepy Joe Biden isn't going to Heal America, his pathetic, decrepit Wokeism will make the divisions worse.

    Which brings to mind the Ultimate Nightmare Scenario. What if the Republicans, in response, find a young, articulate, non-insane version of Trump? A kind of populist, quasi-white-supremacist JFK, also appealing to religious or right-wing Hispanics and blacks, seen in a mirror? Then he will win, I am sure. And then all bets are off.

    America will go truly populist-hard right. And square up to China. Eeek.
    Sullivan's description of Biden's immigration proposals are not very accurate: the "path to citizenship" for Dreamers and those who've been in the US more than 11 years are very long and would only really apply to a fairly small proportion of illegal immigrants (how many have filed tax returns, really?) Indeed, a cynic would say that Biden has proposed something that sounds radical but will have very little real effect.
    True. But he's no doubt thinking of how his GOP buddies are gonna spin this. And spin doctors are often among the first to become baffled by their own bullshit, and convinced that everybody naturally agrees with their way of thinking.

    Thus limited process you describe = "opening the floodgates" or words to that affect.
    Indeed. A "politically correct TikTok dance" didn't have the resonance.
    Switch targets. Hope it sticks.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    Another of my peeves. Why does the Government not say to people that they should minimise their trips to the supermarket to buy groceries? Get home delivery or click and collect whenever you can. If not, then one member of the household should go and get a big shop.

    Every time someone pops into Tesco there is a risk of infection. Don't go if you can avoid it.

    Simple stuff.

    There’s nothing else to do?

    I used to loathe going to the supermarket, now it’s a day out.

    It has become a form of entertainment, as bizarre as that might sound.
    People are going there to meet their mates, not to shop. Which is a big part of the problem.
  • Speaking of immigration, in Eastern WA State this year, growers of apples, grapes, cherries and other fruit crops vital to the local economy AND international food chain, were severely affected by labor shortages during the harvest season, due to problems with obtaining enough immigrant workers from Mexico and Central America.

    Know a women, her and her husband own and operate a commercial peach orchard near Wenatchee, WA. Haven't spoken to her recently, but over the years they've worked to develop a stable, dependable supply of seasonal labor. In addition to providing competitive wages, decent accommodations and good working conditions, they've also built up some interpersonal relationships.

    For example, my friend speaks reasonable Spanish, and is one of the nicest people I know. Her and her husband hire the same families year after year. In fact, they've actually traveled to Oaxaca to visit with some of their workers in their own homes and communities. I believe they also have a religious connection (they're evangelical Christians) with many of these folks.

    She is a Republican, but needless to say, her views on immigration and Mexicans do NOT square to well with You-Know-Who OR rightwing GOP dogma.
This discussion has been closed.