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CNN reporting that McConnell is privately saying he wants Trump gone – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,168
edited January 2021 in General
imageCNN reporting that McConnell is privately saying he wants Trump gone – politicalbetting.com

This is from a CNN report this evening:

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited January 2021
    Hasn't yet

    My £20 at 5.4 is showing a loss atm
  • Don't be a tease Senate Minority Leader.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,215
    IshmaelZ said:

    Hasn't yet

    My £20 at 5.4 is showing a loss atm

    Worth a punt at that price, though.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Well it’s not that private is it.
  • Smart politics. Drawing a line under the sand with Trumpism is very good politics.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Do you want to tell him, or should I?
  • I'll say it again, if Trump is convicted by the Senate the worst he gets is being barred from running again.

    Any criminal and civil trials his lawyers, Messrs Hutz and Giulianim, can argue that Trump cannot get a fair trial following the Senate conviction.

    So it might be in his best interests to be convicted by the Senate.
  • Don't be a tease Senate Minority Leader.

    He's not in the minority by much. AND would still be Majority Leader if not for Trumpsky.
  • I'll say it again, if Trump is convicted by the Senate the worst he gets is being barred from running again.

    Any criminal and civil trials his lawyers, Messrs Hutz and Giulianim, can argue that Trump cannot get a fair trial following the Senate conviction.

    So it might be in his best interests to be convicted by the Senate.

    You're not likely to find 12 men and women who'd unanimously convict him anyway.

    So if it's in his best interests, democracies best interests and the GOPs best interests then get it done.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831

    Johnson has significantly toned down his boosterish optimism - probably about time....

    I noticed that as well and it is welcome

    No more over promising is wise
    Yep, we're going to be completely locked up until the entirety of JCVI Phase One is completed I think. After that, we might get some kind of tentative plan for what comes next, although we may not get very much liberalisation at all for a while, and the scientists may insist that we continue to be locked up for the entire Summer as well until the whole of the remainder of the adult population has been lanced.

    Given that completion of Phase One could take us up to some point in May or possibly even June, I certainly think there's a non-negligible possibility that most children won't be back into school again until September. If it gets late enough into the academic year then, assuming the Summer holidays take place as normal, the powers that be may well conclude that there's no point in bringing the kids back for about five minutes and simply write the remaining classroom time off.
    I think primary schools will reopen in March if the current 20% week-to-week falls are sustained and hospitalisation numbers come down enough to have some spare capacity if that causes cases to go up again.
  • I'll say it again, if Trump is convicted by the Senate the worst he gets is being barred from running again.

    Any criminal and civil trials his lawyers, Messrs Hutz and Giulianim, can argue that Trump cannot get a fair trial following the Senate conviction.

    So it might be in his best interests to be convicted by the Senate.

    It might be in every bodies interests. The democrats can say see he is a bad man, the republicans will not have to worry about Trump turning up for another primary and Trump gets to claim witch hunt.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    https://archive.vn/9kWbI

    Washington Post: "Denmark is sequencing all coronavirus samples and has an alarming view of the U.K. variant

    Like a speeding car whose brake lines have been cut, the coronavirus variant first spotted in Britain is spreading at an alarming rate and isn’t responding to established ways of slowing the pandemic, according to Danish scientists who have one of the world’s best views into the new, more contagious strain.

    Cases involving the variant are increasing 70 percent a week in Denmark, despite a strict lockdown, according to Denmark’s State Serum Institute, a government agency that tracks diseases and advises health policy.

    “We’re losing some of the tools that we have to control the epidemic,” said Tyra Grove Krause, scientific director of the institute, which has begun sequencing every positive coronavirus test to check for mutations. By contrast, the United States is sequencing 0.3 percent of cases, ranking it 43rd in the world and leaving it largely blind to the variant’s spread.

    ..."
  • Smart politics. Drawing a line under the sand with Trumpism is very good politics.

    Drawing a line where now?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,923
    edited January 2021
    Trump already is gone. It is not as if Trump is GOP leader or Leader of the Opposition as would be in this country. So what does McConnell mean? That he wants Trump convicted or for the case to be quietly dropped so Trump can fade away?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    IshmaelZ said:

    Hasn't yet

    My £20 at 5.4 is showing a loss atm

    What we have learnt over the past tow months is that there are strong pro-Trump factions seen in several betting markets who are risking their money in spite of all the evidence. I had a whopping bet at 1.07 that Trump woulds be out on January 20th. Who was throwing their money away on laying that bet.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2021
    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the thing to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772
  • Interesting test of Trumpsky's post-POTUS clout is coming up in not-too-distant future, when US House Republicans vote - by secret ballot - whether or not to retain Lynn Cheney (R-Wyoming) as GOP Conference Chair following her vote to impeach Trumpsky in the wake of his failed Putsch.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/21/liz-cheneys-problems-pile-up-461218

    "The most immediate threat to Cheney — a push by Trump loyalists to oust her as conference chair — has gained momentum inside the House GOP, although the process is complicated and could still sputter out. But at least 107 Republicans, or just over a majority, have communicated to the leaders of that effort that they would support removing Cheney from leadership on a secret ballot, according to multiple GOP sources involved in the effort. Others are threatening to boycott future conference meetings if she remains in power."

    "And at least two members have privately signaled interest in replacing Cheney as the No. 3 Republican, sources say: Reps. Elise Stefanik and Lee Zeldin, two New Yorkers who both sprang to popularity in the party after fiercely defending Trump during his first impeachment." . . .

    "But several other senior Republicans think Cheney ultimately hangs on to her post, arguing most Republicans will have little appetite for creating more chaos in the conference at a time when the party is desperate to unite."
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    It's often the case that these ridiculous stories are fake.
  • Do we still have Covid-deniers loitering this webpage?

    The reason I ask is, when I was suffering with 'long Covid' between March and April (and May, June, July etc.) and updating politcalbetting about my long Covid (before the term had even been coined and before I gave up on the site) I was castigated by a certain member here, basically implying that I was telling one great big porkie. As if lying about your life falling apart is the sort of thing you just do.. Unfortunately I wasn't and I was seriously ill for a long time, despite being young and having no 'underlying health conditions'.

    So anyway, Covid is the real deal. It is a horrific virus, in the wrong person/immunological response. You wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Even on the deniers.

    On the positive side, there were many posters on this site that do/did restore my faith in humanity. God bless you guys.

    Sounds awful, but alas it's not an unusual story. I hope you are recovered now.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Do we still have Covid-deniers loitering this webpage?

    The reason I ask is, when I was suffering with 'long Covid' between March and April (and May, June, July etc.) and updating politcalbetting about my long Covid (before the term had even been coined and before I gave up on the site) I was castigated by a certain member here, basically implying that I was telling one great big porkie. As if lying about your life falling apart is the sort of thing you just do.. Unfortunately I wasn't and I was seriously ill for a long time, despite being young and having no 'underlying health conditions'.

    So anyway, Covid is the real deal. It is a horrific virus, in the wrong person/immunological response. You wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Even on the deniers.

    On the positive side, there were many posters on this site that do/did restore my faith in humanity. God bless you guys.

    Hope you are fully recovered.

    Sadly we saw the ludicrous claim in the previous thread that for the non-vulnerable covid is "essentially harmless."
  • Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    This is also real.

    Then

    https://twitter.com/VictoriaLIVE/status/1053287512033103873

    Now

    https://twitter.com/WritesBright/status/1352597757857566722
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,693
    RobD said:

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    It's often the case that these ridiculous stories are fake.
    That's reassuring. Perhaps that ridiculous bloke claiming he's the Prime Minister is just a prankster.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    Do we still have Covid-deniers loitering this webpage?

    The reason I ask is, when I was suffering with 'long Covid' between March and April (and May, June, July etc.) and updating politcalbetting about my long Covid (before the term had even been coined and before I gave up on the site) I was castigated by a certain member here, basically implying that I was telling one great big porkie. As if lying about your life falling apart is the sort of thing you just do.. Unfortunately I wasn't and I was seriously ill for a long time, despite being young and having no 'underlying health conditions'.

    So anyway, Covid is the real deal. It is a horrific virus, in the wrong person/immunological response. You wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Even on the deniers.

    On the positive side, there were many posters on this site that do/did restore my faith in humanity. God bless you guys.

    Welcome back.
    Indeed. Wondered what became of you.
    Are you 100% now I hope?
  • RobD said:

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    It's often the case that these ridiculous stories are fake.
    I did a check and that's the sort of customs you'd have to pay in that scenario.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Gosh, good gracious and help my boab, it turns out that President Trump was dishonest, delusional, demented, dumb, dangerous and a delinquent (and this is just the ds): who knew? Who could possibly have guessed? Certainly not anyone in the GOP, that's for sure.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    RobD said:

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    It's often the case that these ridiculous stories are fake.
    I did a check and that's the sort of customs you'd have to pay in that scenario.
    A well-researched story then, doesn't mean it isn't made up.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,693

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    This is also real.
    I have more sympathy for June Mummery than most of the Brexit Party lot. At least she had skin in the game and was fighting for what she believed would help, even if she was misled.
  • Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    This is also real.
    I have more sympathy for June Mummery than most of the Brexit Party lot. At least she had skin in the game and was fighting for what she believed would help, even if she was misled.
    Same, don't blame/mock the conned, blame the conmen and women.
  • RobD said:

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    It's often the case that these ridiculous stories are fake.
    That's reassuring. Perhaps that ridiculous bloke claiming he's the Prime Minister is just a prankster.
    It's Jeremy Beadle in a fucking fat suit, isn't it?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    IshmaelZ said:

    https://archive.vn/9kWbI

    Washington Post: "Denmark is sequencing all coronavirus samples and has an alarming view of the U.K. variant

    Like a speeding car whose brake lines have been cut, the coronavirus variant first spotted in Britain is spreading at an alarming rate and isn’t responding to established ways of slowing the pandemic, according to Danish scientists who have one of the world’s best views into the new, more contagious strain.

    Cases involving the variant are increasing 70 percent a week in Denmark, despite a strict lockdown, according to Denmark’s State Serum Institute, a government agency that tracks diseases and advises health policy.

    “We’re losing some of the tools that we have to control the epidemic,” said Tyra Grove Krause, scientific director of the institute, which has begun sequencing every positive coronavirus test to check for mutations. By contrast, the United States is sequencing 0.3 percent of cases, ranking it 43rd in the world and leaving it largely blind to the variant’s spread.

    ..."

    Are we back to those 3 monkeys again? The Trump administration heard no evil, spoke no...no that doesn't work. Damn.
  • RobD said:

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    It's often the case that these ridiculous stories are fake.
    I did a check and that's the sort of customs you'd have to pay in that scenario.
    Which is probably why someone has made up the story.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Interesting stat from the Guernsey arrival COVID screening - 56% of positive tests have been found on arrival, 37% have been identified from arrival to day 12 - and 7% have been identified on the day 13 test (mandatory, unless you want to spend 21 days in self-isolation). Which rather calls into question this (mooted/agreed?) UK plan of "release from quarantine on negative Day 5 test." Also under discussion starting to charge arrivals for testing (£25/go, two required) for the selfish sods travellers, TBC.

    Two questions:

    (1) Does Guernsey also require a test 48 hours before travel?
    (2) The 7% found on day 13, did they travel on a plane with someone known to have been infected?
    1) No - because pre-flight testing misses 100% of those infected en-route. Indeed on-arrival testing also misses 100% of those infected en-route.
    2) No - because they would have been contact-trace identified from an infected passenger - they presented (probably) asymptomatic at Day 13.

    Modelling had suggested they'd get about 10 infected passengers for every 1,000 arrivals - they've actually had 10.4 - so they're pretty happy with the model.
    Hang on.

    I'm not sure I agree with your maths (or maybe I explained myself poorly)

    My proposal is that if anyone from a plane is found positive on day five, then everyone is quarantined for the full fourteen days. But if no-one is, then you can have people released on day five.

    The evidence is that 7% of those tested only tested positive on Day 13 - which suggests that testing at Day 5 will release infected people into the community.
    Sure: but of those 7% who only tested positive on day 13, how many of them travelled on the plane with someone who tested positive on arrival or at day five?

    Consider these two scenarios:
    (1) there are 50 people on the plane, and they've all tested negative two days before flight, on arrival and five days after arrival
    (2) there are 50 people on the plane, and on arrival two people test positive for CV19

    The second group, you definitely want to quarantine the entire flight for 14 days.

    But the first, it seems highly unlikely any of them caught it on the plane (which would be by far the highest risk period).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    Interesting test of Trumpsky's post-POTUS clout is coming up in not-too-distant future, when US House Republicans vote - by secret ballot - whether or not to retain Lynn Cheney (R-Wyoming) as GOP Conference Chair following her vote to impeach Trumpsky in the wake of his failed Putsch.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/21/liz-cheneys-problems-pile-up-461218

    "The most immediate threat to Cheney — a push by Trump loyalists to oust her as conference chair — has gained momentum inside the House GOP, although the process is complicated and could still sputter out. But at least 107 Republicans, or just over a majority, have communicated to the leaders of that effort that they would support removing Cheney from leadership on a secret ballot, according to multiple GOP sources involved in the effort. Others are threatening to boycott future conference meetings if she remains in power."

    "And at least two members have privately signaled interest in replacing Cheney as the No. 3 Republican, sources say: Reps. Elise Stefanik and Lee Zeldin, two New Yorkers who both sprang to popularity in the party after fiercely defending Trump during his first impeachment." . . .

    "But several other senior Republicans think Cheney ultimately hangs on to her post, arguing most Republicans will have little appetite for creating more chaos in the conference at a time when the party is desperate to unite."

    Some think he's the Messiah. Some a very naughty boy.
    Hard to unify under those circumstances.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    DavidL said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://archive.vn/9kWbI

    Washington Post: "Denmark is sequencing all coronavirus samples and has an alarming view of the U.K. variant

    Like a speeding car whose brake lines have been cut, the coronavirus variant first spotted in Britain is spreading at an alarming rate and isn’t responding to established ways of slowing the pandemic, according to Danish scientists who have one of the world’s best views into the new, more contagious strain.

    Cases involving the variant are increasing 70 percent a week in Denmark, despite a strict lockdown, according to Denmark’s State Serum Institute, a government agency that tracks diseases and advises health policy.

    “We’re losing some of the tools that we have to control the epidemic,” said Tyra Grove Krause, scientific director of the institute, which has begun sequencing every positive coronavirus test to check for mutations. By contrast, the United States is sequencing 0.3 percent of cases, ranking it 43rd in the world and leaving it largely blind to the variant’s spread.

    ..."

    Are we back to those 3 monkeys again? The Trump administration heard no evil, spoke no...no that doesn't work. Damn.
    Didn't have you down as a racist.

    ;)
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Gaussian said:

    Johnson has significantly toned down his boosterish optimism - probably about time....

    I noticed that as well and it is welcome

    No more over promising is wise
    Yep, we're going to be completely locked up until the entirety of JCVI Phase One is completed I think. After that, we might get some kind of tentative plan for what comes next, although we may not get very much liberalisation at all for a while, and the scientists may insist that we continue to be locked up for the entire Summer as well until the whole of the remainder of the adult population has been lanced.

    Given that completion of Phase One could take us up to some point in May or possibly even June, I certainly think there's a non-negligible possibility that most children won't be back into school again until September. If it gets late enough into the academic year then, assuming the Summer holidays take place as normal, the powers that be may well conclude that there's no point in bringing the kids back for about five minutes and simply write the remaining classroom time off.
    I think primary schools will reopen in March if the current 20% week-to-week falls are sustained and hospitalisation numbers come down enough to have some spare capacity if that causes cases to go up again.
    The Prime Minister has been sounding very cautious indeed about making even baby steps towards opening any element of society whatsoever back up, and I think that everybody has already written off the prospect of anything at all coming out of the token review scheduled for mid-February.

    Therefore, whilst I know that the Government is not exactly renowned for its consistency, I don't see them turning on a sixpence and deciding its suddenly safe to let all the primary school kids go back to their petri dishes and start enthusiastically stirring again in March. The risk of yet another tsunami wave of Plague is not a price worth paying for letting little Tiffany learn her times tables sat in a classroom rather than on Zoom.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    RobD said:

    Incidentally, you may see this, which has been quite widely retweeted, but treat with extreme caution:

    https://twitter.com/segal_eran/status/1352347551362670594

    It looks good at first sight, but it ignores the crucial fact that healthcare workers who have been vaccinated no longer have to self-isolate if they are in contact with someone infected. So the improvement may be largely or entirely explained by that, not by the vaccine protecting them (yet).

    Integrating under the green curve for the first peak shows they were clobbered a lot harder in the first wave. So it may be more to do with immunity from already having had it, rather than the vaccine.
    plotting 'number of days not working in heatlth care workers' with 'number of cases in the general population' on the same axis is very dodgy.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.
  • Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    This is also real.
    I have more sympathy for June Mummery than most of the Brexit Party lot. At least she had skin in the game and was fighting for what she believed would help, even if she was misled.
    I'd have sympathy if she admitted she was wrong and apologised to those who pointed out that this was likely to happen. It's not as though the dire implications of Brexit for the fishing industry weren't obvious at the time of the referendum, and even more obvious when Boris became PM and deliberately made things even worse than they needed to be.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    tlg86 said:
    Whoa, that’s an awful lot of cash to disappear for weeks through the election.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    By cases and hospitalisations, R is below 1

    image
    image

    Local R values (calculated from cases)

    image

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,205
    IshmaelZ said:

    Hasn't yet

    My £20 at 5.4 is showing a loss atm

    I rather impetuously took 4.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    Foxy said:

    Do we still have Covid-deniers loitering this webpage?

    The reason I ask is, when I was suffering with 'long Covid' between March and April (and May, June, July etc.) and updating politcalbetting about my long Covid (before the term had even been coined and before I gave up on the site) I was castigated by a certain member here, basically implying that I was telling one great big porkie. As if lying about your life falling apart is the sort of thing you just do.. Unfortunately I wasn't and I was seriously ill for a long time, despite being young and having no 'underlying health conditions'.

    So anyway, Covid is the real deal. It is a horrific virus, in the wrong person/immunological response. You wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Even on the deniers.

    On the positive side, there were many posters on this site that do/did restore my faith in humanity. God bless you guys.

    Good to see you back.
    Seconded.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    DavidL said:

    Gosh, good gracious and help my boab, it turns out that President Trump was dishonest, delusional, demented, dumb, dangerous and a delinquent (and this is just the ds): who knew? Who could possibly have guessed? Certainly not anyone in the GOP, that's for sure.

    It's the bloody Democrats fault.

    If only they hadn't been saying Trump was bad, the GOP might have believed them.

    If they hadn't called him a fascist, he might have felt more at liberty to act like a fascist more openly and less in hints, succeeded, and the GOP wouldn't have had to face this. Or he might not have had to act like a fascist to wind them up. Or something.

    So, its the Dems fault.

    Definitely.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,693

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    This is also real.
    I have more sympathy for June Mummery than most of the Brexit Party lot. At least she had skin in the game and was fighting for what she believed would help, even if she was misled.
    I'd have sympathy if she admitted she was wrong and apologised to those who pointed out that this was likely to happen. It's not as though the dire implications of Brexit for the fishing industry weren't obvious at the time of the referendum, and even more obvious when Boris became PM and deliberately made things even worse than they needed to be.
    Give it time and some high-profile recantations are inevitable.
  • On a cursory read, as a non-expert, I have to say it looks pretty solid, albeit preliminary:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1352685565477580802
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    edited January 2021

    Do we still have Covid-deniers loitering this webpage?

    The reason I ask is, when I was suffering with 'long Covid' between March and April (and May, June, July etc.) and updating politcalbetting about my long Covid (before the term had even been coined and before I gave up on the site) I was castigated by a certain member here, basically implying that I was telling one great big porkie. As if lying about your life falling apart is the sort of thing you just do.. Unfortunately I wasn't and I was seriously ill for a long time, despite being young and having no 'underlying health conditions'.

    So anyway, Covid is the real deal. It is a horrific virus, in the wrong person/immunological response. You wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Even on the deniers.

    On the positive side, there were many posters on this site that do/did restore my faith in humanity. God bless you guys.

    Glad to see you posting again, and sorry that you went through that.

    Some say that the deniers bring an interesting perspective. I think that they bring malicious lies. I'm increasingly tempted to call them such.

    --AS
    have to say the term is itself stupid if you mean people (like me) who think we have gone OTT with restrictions but dont deny covid is a serious illness. Its as if you want to bracket any dissenters to the restrictions in the same category as Holocaust deniers or climate change deniers . There are very few covid deniers in the literal sense and its stupid to use them as straw men to win a different argument
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    FPT:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Today, I hit a weight loss of 4 stone (56lbs for those in the US; approximately 26kgs - I think - in new money) since I decided to stop being a fat git on 21st July last year. If I can do it, anyone can. Seriously. It's really simple: eat and drink less, exercise more. Forgive yourself when you bugger up, as you will. But always go again. Never stop trying. It's so worth it. That is all.

    That's inspired me, thanks. I've been trying to lose two stones, but have so far only lost two pounds. I shall forgive myself and keep on trying!
    Apart from the very sensible advice from @Southam (eat less, exercise more) - I would add the following:

    1) cut out alcohol at least for a while (maybe impossible in lockdown).
    2) plan out and have a set menu every day so you know what you are going to eat, whether it's a fancy menu plan, or something you do (eg. mass cook carrots, broccoli, etc and dollop it out each meal time).
    3) have a good breakfast (not sausage, egg and chips - but toast and marmalade or somesuch).
    4) don't eat between meals
    5) make the menu boring with a treat once a day.
    6) don't weigh yourself every day.

    I'm sure you know all this so apols if so.
    I'd vouch for 2). Not doing that I seemed to automatically put on more than doing so.

    But if you are quite heavy I actually found 6) motivating, as simply walking quite a bit (not even jogging) and cutting down foot intake there was a notable decrease day on day. Once the first, easy pounds were done, I stopped though.

    Even though it is silly I'd also eat dinner pretty early, no snacking, and then weigh myself first thing - since it had been 12 hours+, I was definitely at my lightest for the day!

    But I need to start doing it properly again, i've gotten chunky once more. Put back on 2 stone of the 3.5 I had lost.
    Yes you're right - at the beginning it is very encouraging to see how you are actually losing weight.

    I think diets work for most people (whether carrots and cabbage or chocolate cake) because they are doing something they hadn't done before - regulating their eating. In almost all cases just doing that will make a huge difference. Oh and the booze...
    The booze is a right b'stard, isn't it? I managed to cut down by making a promise to myself to not have any alcohol the night before a day at work and that gives me at least 3 nights a week where I can't drink. I wasn't a boozer, but like a whisky or rum in my hand of an evening. It really helped, and now I only really drink at weekends if I'm not at work.
    One other thing.... going to a plant based diet really, really helped. At a stroke it cuts out cream cakes and chocolate. I'm fitter, leaner, sleep better, lifting more in the gym and with less (fewer? I can't be arsed!) aches and pains than I can ever remember.
    Diet is key, though. Not dieting. Eat better, move more, really does work, and as you say, if you fall off the wagon, reset yourself then climb back on.
    Putting calorific values on bottles would probably be a better aid to general health than putting on alcohol volumes.
    What I want to know is which f*cker put calories in alcohol.....looking at my Friday evening G&T and packet of crisps I was not going to eat all of.....
    Most of my bottles already have calorific values on them.

    Excet, strangely, Laithwaites wine.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    DavidL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
    Isn't it also the difference between 100,000 deaths and 130,000 deaths, so an increase of 30%?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    Do we still have Covid-deniers loitering this webpage?

    The reason I ask is, when I was suffering with 'long Covid' between March and April (and May, June, July etc.) and updating politcalbetting about my long Covid (before the term had even been coined and before I gave up on the site) I was castigated by a certain member here, basically implying that I was telling one great big porkie. As if lying about your life falling apart is the sort of thing you just do.. Unfortunately I wasn't and I was seriously ill for a long time, despite being young and having no 'underlying health conditions'.

    So anyway, Covid is the real deal. It is a horrific virus, in the wrong person/immunological response. You wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Even on the deniers.

    On the positive side, there were many posters on this site that do/did restore my faith in humanity. God bless you guys.

    Welcome back.
    Thanks. But I am only popping in to say hello. I offer some good news - despite the gloom - even those hit hard can recover and flourish. Many many do not.

    Keep up the good work. Best wishes to all.

    Hang around. You have much to contribute.
  • DavidL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
    It's 30% more bodies in coffins, which isn't statistical noise.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    This is also real.

    Then

    ://twitter.com/VictoriaLIVE/status/1053287512033103873

    Now

    ://twitter.com/WritesBright/status/1352597757857566722
    Its almost as if voters are ungrateful when given what they ask for...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,876
    DavidL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
    Not quite. 0.3 "percentage points". But presumably those would include asymptomatics and all levels of sevcerity. Once you start being seriously ill, then being carted into hospital, it gets much closer to one or two dozen percentage points than before. And if you are the bloke i/c the ICU or the mortuary it is a full 30% bigger a problem.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770
    I've been pondering the Trump impeachment conviction chances. I've essentially no bet on it at the moment.

    I think that it all boils down to the Democrats wanting to have his hide, but knowing that it's perhaps not in their best interests. (Why tie up your opponents loose cannon?). Then for the Republicans, they hate the idea, but they'll stop they'll not have so much to worry about in the rough seas of the future.

    I think the Democrats will accidently-on-purpose neglect to follow up. (I'm assuming that's possible?) If it does come to a vote then it'll pass.

    So oddly from (perhaps) a different view I'm arriving at the current price being roughly right. I'll admit I was tempted by the Smithson argument! (Haven't we all been!)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,752
    DavidL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
    30%

    Which is quite a big difference if true. But I suspect the uncertainty in this is quite large

    (0.3 percentage points, but 30% more lethal)
  • Valance was very cautious sounding about how well vaccinations will do against Brazilian Bum and Saffers mutant forms.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    I am trying to think of why anyone would ever have essential travel in Belgium. Outflanking the Maginot line in 1939 was the best possibility I could come up with but its not particularly recent.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,876
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
    Not quite. 0.3 "percentage points". But presumably those would include asymptomatics and all levels of sevcerity. Once you start being seriously ill, then being carted into hospital, it gets much closer to one or two dozen percentage points than before. And if you are the bloke i/c the ICU or the mortuary it is a full 30% bigger a problem.
    I forgot also - it is more infectious. So more thousands of 60yos.

    MattW's remark about Laithwaite's wine reminds me bacon and leek and rice are cooking and it's time to refill my glass. Night all.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    RobD said:

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    It's often the case that these ridiculous stories are fake.
    I did a check and that's the sort of customs you'd have to pay in that scenario.
    Which is probably why someone has made up the story.
    You don't know if it is made up or not. If it is true it is more of a LOL than a serious point against brexit. So denying it just creates an unnecessary hostage to fortune, and makes you look like a denialbot.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    edited January 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    It's often the case that these ridiculous stories are fake.
    I did a check and that's the sort of customs you'd have to pay in that scenario.
    Which is probably why someone has made up the story.
    You don't know if it is made up or not. If it is true it is more of a LOL than a serious point against brexit. So denying it just creates an unnecessary hostage to fortune, and makes you look like a denialbot.
    Just pointing out that the last time one of these twitter threads about a homeowner in France was making the rounds it was shown to be complete bollocks.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    MattW said:

    FPT:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Today, I hit a weight loss of 4 stone (56lbs for those in the US; approximately 26kgs - I think - in new money) since I decided to stop being a fat git on 21st July last year. If I can do it, anyone can. Seriously. It's really simple: eat and drink less, exercise more. Forgive yourself when you bugger up, as you will. But always go again. Never stop trying. It's so worth it. That is all.

    That's inspired me, thanks. I've been trying to lose two stones, but have so far only lost two pounds. I shall forgive myself and keep on trying!
    Apart from the very sensible advice from @Southam (eat less, exercise more) - I would add the following:

    1) cut out alcohol at least for a while (maybe impossible in lockdown).
    2) plan out and have a set menu every day so you know what you are going to eat, whether it's a fancy menu plan, or something you do (eg. mass cook carrots, broccoli, etc and dollop it out each meal time).
    3) have a good breakfast (not sausage, egg and chips - but toast and marmalade or somesuch).
    4) don't eat between meals
    5) make the menu boring with a treat once a day.
    6) don't weigh yourself every day.

    I'm sure you know all this so apols if so.
    I'd vouch for 2). Not doing that I seemed to automatically put on more than doing so.

    But if you are quite heavy I actually found 6) motivating, as simply walking quite a bit (not even jogging) and cutting down foot intake there was a notable decrease day on day. Once the first, easy pounds were done, I stopped though.

    Even though it is silly I'd also eat dinner pretty early, no snacking, and then weigh myself first thing - since it had been 12 hours+, I was definitely at my lightest for the day!

    But I need to start doing it properly again, i've gotten chunky once more. Put back on 2 stone of the 3.5 I had lost.
    Yes you're right - at the beginning it is very encouraging to see how you are actually losing weight.

    I think diets work for most people (whether carrots and cabbage or chocolate cake) because they are doing something they hadn't done before - regulating their eating. In almost all cases just doing that will make a huge difference. Oh and the booze...
    The booze is a right b'stard, isn't it? I managed to cut down by making a promise to myself to not have any alcohol the night before a day at work and that gives me at least 3 nights a week where I can't drink. I wasn't a boozer, but like a whisky or rum in my hand of an evening. It really helped, and now I only really drink at weekends if I'm not at work.
    One other thing.... going to a plant based diet really, really helped. At a stroke it cuts out cream cakes and chocolate. I'm fitter, leaner, sleep better, lifting more in the gym and with less (fewer? I can't be arsed!) aches and pains than I can ever remember.
    Diet is key, though. Not dieting. Eat better, move more, really does work, and as you say, if you fall off the wagon, reset yourself then climb back on.
    Putting calorific values on bottles would probably be a better aid to general health than putting on alcohol volumes.
    What I want to know is which f*cker put calories in alcohol.....looking at my Friday evening G&T and packet of crisps I was not going to eat all of.....
    Most of my bottles already have calorific values on them.

    Excet, strangely, Laithwaites wine.
    A number of friends have noticed a big difference when switching to higher quality tonic for their G&Ts

    The usual Schweppes stuff has bags of sugar in it....
  • Whitty again made it clear capacity of jabbers isn't a problem, supply is still a big limiting factor.
  • Selebian said:

    DavidL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
    30%

    Which is quite a big difference if true. But I suspect the uncertainty in this is quite large

    (0.3 percentage points, but 30% more lethal)
    So would have been better to get herd immuniity last year wouldn't it?
  • On a cursory read, as a non-expert, I have to say it looks pretty solid, albeit preliminary:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1352685565477580802

    I'd need to read the studies themselves (the doc is simply a summary), most of which are unpublished, but yes that evidence seems consistent. It's not surprising: a pattern of increased viral load, increased transmission, and a spike mutation are all consistent with a virus that enters cells more easily to replicate, so a little greater chance of either overwhelming the immune system or triggering immune over-reaction. Not a cause for panic, either.

    --AS
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,876

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    This is also real.

    Then

    https://twitter.com/VictoriaLIVE/status/1053287512033103873

    Now

    https://twitter.com/WritesBright/status/1352597757857566722
    and also then

    https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1351238123435544582/photo/1
  • Whitty again made it clear capacity of jabbers isn't a problem, supply is still a big limiting factor.

    not sure then why having night shifts
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893
    The question is whether, pace Thatcher, Trump will be able to anoint GOP candidates by simply saying "he's one of us" even if he is himself excluded or whether the GOP grassroots will themselves take on the mantle of assuring only "true believers" are chosen as the party's flag bearers.

    Look at what's happening in the Arizona GOP for example and you may conclude the Party has lost its mind let alone its soul.
  • RobD said:

    Is this for real? If so it's quite funny, although clearly 'Dave' forgot that the think to do when Johnny Foreigner doesn't understand you is to shout louder:

    https://twitter.com/Adam_SH69/status/1352606875368480772

    It's often the case that these ridiculous stories are fake.
    That's reassuring. Perhaps that ridiculous bloke claiming he's the Prime Minister is just a prankster.
    It's Jeremy Beadle in a fucking fat suit, isn't it?
    Or ... Maybe the Leader of the Opposition has been switched by the invaders of the body snatchers and replaced by Max Headroom.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    DavidL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
    It's 30% more bodies in coffins, which isn't statistical noise.
    Erm, how do I put this, unless you are one of the bodies in a coffin statistical noise is exactly what it is. The real problem with the new variant, and it is a massive problem which would have been totally catastrophic if we did not have working vaccines, is that it seems to be multiple times more infectious than the old. That is what has our health service hanging by a thread, not the tiny increase in mortality.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,876

    Whitty again made it clear capacity of jabbers isn't a problem, supply is still a big limiting factor.

    not sure then why having night shifts
    PR con trick? (I don't know, to be fair. But I wonder.)
  • Gaussian said:

    Johnson has significantly toned down his boosterish optimism - probably about time....

    I noticed that as well and it is welcome

    No more over promising is wise
    Yep, we're going to be completely locked up until the entirety of JCVI Phase One is completed I think. After that, we might get some kind of tentative plan for what comes next, although we may not get very much liberalisation at all for a while, and the scientists may insist that we continue to be locked up for the entire Summer as well until the whole of the remainder of the adult population has been lanced.

    Given that completion of Phase One could take us up to some point in May or possibly even June, I certainly think there's a non-negligible possibility that most children won't be back into school again until September. If it gets late enough into the academic year then, assuming the Summer holidays take place as normal, the powers that be may well conclude that there's no point in bringing the kids back for about five minutes and simply write the remaining classroom time off.
    I think primary schools will reopen in March if the current 20% week-to-week falls are sustained and hospitalisation numbers come down enough to have some spare capacity if that causes cases to go up again.
    The Prime Minister has been sounding very cautious indeed about making even baby steps towards opening any element of society whatsoever back up, and I think that everybody has already written off the prospect of anything at all coming out of the token review scheduled for mid-February.

    Therefore, whilst I know that the Government is not exactly renowned for its consistency, I don't see them turning on a sixpence and deciding its suddenly safe to let all the primary school kids go back to their petri dishes and start enthusiastically stirring again in March. The risk of yet another tsunami wave of Plague is not a price worth paying for letting little Tiffany learn her times tables sat in a classroom rather than on Zoom.
    I don't know if other parents are finding the same thing, but I find our daughter's school much, much better placed to handle this closure of than the original one.

    A lot more work for me to keep them up to date and still do my own things too this time though.

    Last year we didn't do Zoom, they just put some materials on the website and left it at that. This time there's a secure website to log onto, download and upload the work (which seems much more in volume), and they're doing weekly Zoom calls to keep in touch. Today we had a bonus Zoom call arranged so they could sing happy birthday to one of the classmates.

    I think this shutdown may be much less disruptive than the last one was. Certainly everyone seems to be working hard to ensure that. 👍
  • On a cursory read, as a non-expert, I have to say it looks pretty solid, albeit preliminary:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1352685565477580802

    I'd need to read the studies themselves (the doc is simply a summary), most of which are unpublished, but yes that evidence seems consistent. It's not surprising: a pattern of increased viral load, increased transmission, and a spike mutation are all consistent with a virus that enters cells more easily to replicate, so a little greater chance of either overwhelming the immune system or triggering immune over-reaction. Not a cause for panic, either.

    --AS
    Its of course not good news but not sure it should make any difference in that what if the new strain was 30% less fatal rather than more ? Would we change policy on lockdown then ? I doubt it?
  • stodge said:

    The question is whether, pace Thatcher, Trump will be able to anoint GOP candidates by simply saying "he's one of us" even if he is himself excluded or whether the GOP grassroots will themselves take on the mantle of assuring only "true believers" are chosen as the party's flag bearers.

    Look at what's happening in the Arizona GOP for example and you may conclude the Party has lost its mind let alone its soul.

    The more 45's crimes are in the news the better. For everyone. Sunlight, disinfectant.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Selebian said:

    DavidL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
    30%

    Which is quite a big difference if true. But I suspect the uncertainty in this is quite large

    (0.3 percentage points, but 30% more lethal)
    I guess I am a glass (at least) half full kind of guy.
  • On topic, one thing to bear in mind is that all the House congressmen will be up again in 2022 and could be primaried. Also the redistricting should have happened before then which potentially gives state parties, where they control redistricting, the opportunity to either strengthen or weaken the electoral position of individual congressmen.

    Of the Republican senators:

    18 are up in 2022
    10 are up in 2024
    20 are up in 2026
    2 are standing down in 2022
  • Carnyx said:

    Whitty again made it clear capacity of jabbers isn't a problem, supply is still a big limiting factor.

    not sure then why having night shifts
    PR con trick? (I don't know, to be fair. But I wonder.)
    I really really hope we are not basing any policy on covid on PR because if we are anyone who is wants banishing from office
  • BTW, speaking of world leaders leaving the stage under a cloud, yesterday the Governor General of Canada abruptly resigned, just before publication of an official report on allegations that she was guilty of serious workplace abuse.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/payette-governor-general-resignation-wherry-1.5883082

    "Julie Payette might still want to debate the details of what exactly occurred inside Rideau Hall over the last three and a half years. But she apparently couldn't escape an increasingly obvious conclusion — that for her to continue as governor general would risk inflicting serious damage on the office. . . .

    Payette will go down as the first governor general to have to resign in scandal, but Prime Minister Justin Trudeau does not come away unscathed."

    Addendum - GG of Canada is QEII's official viceroy as Head of State, appointed by the monarch upon the (binding) advice of the Canadian PM.

    Payette was Trudeau's pick, and a spectacularly bad one. Now he's got to find another Guv'nor, hopefully via a MUCH-improved vetting process.

    Which is an opportunity to undue some of the damage, to the office of GG and (much more important) to Trudeau himself AND the future of his Liberal Party minority government, which is facing possible general election as soon as this year.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pro_Rata said:

    DavidL said:

    Gosh, good gracious and help my boab, it turns out that President Trump was dishonest, delusional, demented, dumb, dangerous and a delinquent (and this is just the ds): who knew? Who could possibly have guessed? Certainly not anyone in the GOP, that's for sure.

    It's the bloody Democrats fault.

    If only they hadn't been saying Trump was bad, the GOP might have believed them.

    If they hadn't called him a fascist, he might have felt more at liberty to act like a fascist more openly and less in hints, succeeded, and the GOP wouldn't have had to face this. Or he might not have had to act like a fascist to wind them up. Or something.

    So, its the Dems fault.

    Definitely.
    The GOP once criticised Obama for failing to veto a bill they passed.

    So I believe you have actually perfectly captured their thinking.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    DavidL said:

    Selebian said:

    DavidL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
    30%

    Which is quite a big difference if true. But I suspect the uncertainty in this is quite large

    (0.3 percentage points, but 30% more lethal)
    I guess I am a glass (at least) half full kind of guy.
    On reflection that is not entirely true. I work hard to ensure that is a temporary state of affairs.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    Do we still have Covid-deniers loitering this webpage?

    The reason I ask is, when I was suffering with 'long Covid' between March and April (and May, June, July etc.) and updating politcalbetting about my long Covid (before the term had even been coined and before I gave up on the site) I was castigated by a certain member here, basically implying that I was telling one great big porkie. As if lying about your life falling apart is the sort of thing you just do.. Unfortunately I wasn't and I was seriously ill for a long time, despite being young and having no 'underlying health conditions'.

    So anyway, Covid is the real deal. It is a horrific virus, in the wrong person/immunological response. You wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Even on the deniers.

    On the positive side, there were many posters on this site that do/did restore my faith in humanity. God bless you guys.

    Name names @GideonWise
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831
    Haven't updated this one for a while.



    The lower case levels might give Scotland and maybe even Wales the opportunity to reopen primary schools a little sooner (if they don't fall too far behind on vaccinations). That could act as a test run for England, or just bump Boris into reopening too soon.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Selebian said:

    DavidL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
    30%

    Which is quite a big difference if true. But I suspect the uncertainty in this is quite large

    (0.3 percentage points, but 30% more lethal)
    So would have been better to get herd immuniity last year wouldn't it?
    Walk me through the numbers on that.
  • I notice the numpty from BBC asking about Israel story as if it was a fact....I thought all the BBC read the Guardian....

    Israeli Covid chief’s claim single vaccine dose less effective ‘inaccurate

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/22/israeli-covid-chiefs-remarks-on-vaccine-inaccurate-say-officials
  • Do we still have Covid-deniers loitering this webpage?

    The reason I ask is, when I was suffering with 'long Covid' between March and April (and May, June, July etc.) and updating politcalbetting about my long Covid (before the term had even been coined and before I gave up on the site) I was castigated by a certain member here, basically implying that I was telling one great big porkie. As if lying about your life falling apart is the sort of thing you just do.. Unfortunately I wasn't and I was seriously ill for a long time, despite being young and having no 'underlying health conditions'.

    So anyway, Covid is the real deal. It is a horrific virus, in the wrong person/immunological response. You wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Even on the deniers.

    On the positive side, there were many posters on this site that do/did restore my faith in humanity. God bless you guys.

    Glad to see you posting again, and sorry that you went through that.

    Some say that the deniers bring an interesting perspective. I think that they bring malicious lies. I'm increasingly tempted to call them such.

    --AS
    have to say the term is itself stupid if you mean people (like me) who think we have gone OTT with restrictions but dont deny covid is a serious illness. Its as if you want to bracket any dissenters to the restrictions in the same category as Holocaust deniers or climate change deniers . There are very few covid deniers in the literal sense and its stupid to use them as straw men to win a different argument
    I think there's an important distinction between a disagreement about policy and a disagreement about established facts.

    I think a certain poster on the last thread said that COVID was no more severe than a bad cold for the under 60s. That's a dreadful lie and it taints everything else they post. These deniers do exist.

    Disagreeing on the best public policy to this threat is perfectly reasonable. (I'm quite surprised that, given how many are currently dying and what is happening in hospitals, there would be much dispute about the current lockdown though.)

    --AS
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Thanks for tips on previous thread, all.

    I don't think I could cut out all alcohol right now. Life is too boring and the days are too short. Maybe I could shift to beer to wine, though.

    I like the low carbs in the evening. I need to think more about exercise.

    Calorie counting and weighing doesn't work for me. I obsess about food and weight and get obsessive/disllusioned too easily. And I'd rather die than just eat plants - I need a balanced diet where I can eat meat too. .

    I should probably cut out takeaways and processed food and get on the bike for at least an hour a day. And eat more eggs with meals for the long burn?
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
    It's 30% more bodies in coffins, which isn't statistical noise.
    Erm, how do I put this, unless you are one of the bodies in a coffin statistical noise is exactly what it is. The real problem with the new variant, and it is a massive problem which would have been totally catastrophic if we did not have working vaccines, is that it seems to be multiple times more infectious than the old. That is what has our health service hanging by a thread, not the tiny increase in mortality.
    A thirty percent increase in mortality rate isn't statistical noise.

    Both the increased R rate and the increased death rate matter. Plus I'm assuming if there's more deaths per case there's probably also more hospitalisations per case.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    On topic, one thing to bear in mind is that all the House congressmen will be up again in 2022 and could be primaried. Also the redistricting should have happened before then which potentially gives state parties, where they control redistricting, the opportunity to either strengthen or weaken the electoral position of individual congressmen.

    Of the Republican senators:

    18 are up in 2022
    10 are up in 2024
    20 are up in 2026
    2 are standing down in 2022

    Congress has done it's job, it's now up to the senators to decide whether it's best to have Trump outside pi**ing in or allow Trump to remain in the party.
  • Noticeable change in tone from the Boris....no sunny uplands...on message tonight with must lockdown, must lockdown for a lot longer...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    DavidL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think the scientists are somewhat more willing to highlight the downsides and fears from the evidence than the upsides at this stage.

    New variant 10-50% more fatal? Most of the new variant patients have been treated in England's most crowded hospitals.

    Not sure R is getting below 1. It seems to be consistent everywhere, and the figures are by now reflecting, not only the post-Christmas lull, but 30% or so of the primary pupils staying back in in the New Year (albeit infection rates in this cohort are up from around 1.8 -> 2.1% in the ONS study and this subset could exponent.

    Could be locked down for a long time? Let's wait on the figures there. Especially with vaccination accelerating.

    The vaccine may not stop transmission? C'mon hasn't every vaccine in history disrupted transmission, else why are we now flu jabbing kids. And premature results from Israel? Let's wait.

    An abundance of caution going on here and medicine's first do no harm approach. We are hearing more of their fears than their hopes.

    AIU Boris tonight, and he's not always the clearest, if 1,000 60 year old's got the old virus 10 would die. If 1000 60 year old's get the new variant 13 would die. By my reckoning that is an increase in fatality of 0.3% or statistical noise as most of us would call it.
    30% more people dying, for that is the logical consequence of an increase in fatality rates of 0.3%, would not be statistical noise.
  • I notice the numpty from BBC asking about Israel story as if it was a fact....I thought all the BBC read the Guardian....

    Israeli Covid chief’s claim single vaccine dose less effective ‘inaccurate

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/22/israeli-covid-chiefs-remarks-on-vaccine-inaccurate-say-officials

    "I thought all the BBC read the Guardian...."
    I don't watch or listen to much BBC any more, but do you have a sense of which papers are best represented in the "here's what the papers say" sections?
This discussion has been closed.