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CNN reporting that McConnell is privately saying he wants Trump gone – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,491

    Scott_xP said:
    That is a disgrace.
    The price of sovereignty.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,575
    Scott_xP said:
    That's the terrible risk you run, using the Cheshire Cat as your corporate logo.

    "this time it vanished quite slowly, beginning with the end of the tail, and ending with the grin, which remained some time after the rest of it had gone.”
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,460

    I think that, in the normal course of events, busts will come and go and it's the busts that come which are more notable than the ones that go. As soon as Johnson decided to make politics of the decision to remove the Churchill bust, compounded by Trump doing likewise, it was inevitable that it would not remain in the Oval Office under a Democrat President. To keep it would be to endorse the racism directed towards Obama.

    The mistake was not that Obama removed it, but that Johnson made an issue of it solely to take a dig at a President he opposed.

    It's the lamest snowflake behaviour to be so insecure that one might think it matters.

    It's almost as if it was a statue...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    To try to make myself feel a little better, I'm going to attempt some optimism about 2021 and make a guess about what happens assuming that we don't get a vaccine-resistant SuperCovid that causes everything to go completely to shit.

    1. Long miserable slog through to April or May, i.e. until we get as far as lancing all the over 50s
    2. Primary schools then come back, some baby steps on people meeting outside their household, and gyms, hair and beauty reopen, followed by a 3-4 week gap to see what happens next
    3. Assuming that's OK, we get the non-essential shops and possibly venues like museums, art galleries and National Trust properties, where visitor numbers and movement can be carefully managed. That's it until about September, which is my best guess at when the rest of the adult population will have been jabbed. I suspect that the scientists will go mental if there's any suggestion of unshuttering hospitality. If that's the case then hopefully the Government will also show some common sense and drop its obsessions with getting secondary schools back and letting people go on foreign holidays as well
    4. We finally get the rest of education and whatever is left of hospitality back once the entire vaccination program is completed, along with a broader relaxation of rules on social gatherings. Sporting events and surviving theatres allowed to reopen but with substantially reduced crowds
    5. Widespread imposition of masks and social distancing rules continues until April 2022, when the Coronavirus Act is chucked in the dustbin and all the remaining restrictions go - however...
    6. Some elements of mask wearing and social distancing will probably be reintroduced between October and March every year for the rest of time, which will render all smaller hospitality premises apart from takeaways permanently uneconomic

    I'm non-committal on when I think foreign travel may resume - whether that comes back in September or we have to wait until next year. I think more likely the former, although some destinations like Australia might not want us back for a couple of years anyway.

    In summary, bloody awful but at least most of the bullshit ends eventually. That's about as sunny as my disposition gets nowadays.

    lol. That's pretty grim, but you might be right.

    There is a reasonable worst case scenario now, that the virus continues to mutate beyond our ability to vaccinate against it, and civilised life as we know it simply ends.

    HOWEVER, in that scenario, I believe we would adapt in a year or two, by simply factoring in a much higher risk of death, disease, disablement. We would go back to a world pre-antibiotics, where a humble infection could easily kill you, and we'd shrug and accept this, and go back to what we were. Sex, love, society would assume their rightful priority in our lives. A few would cower away: that would be their choice.
    Antibiotic resistance might stuff us up that badly in the end. I don't think it likely that coronavirus will, although given how dreadfully this has gone so far I do worry that we may get unlucky and have to deal with the kind of mutation disaster you describe at least once before we properly put a lid on it. I'm trying hard not to contemplate that, but it really does worry me that this may drag on for a very long time.

    I'm also afraid that the combination of Covid and flu might be used to try to force us into wearing gags for six months of every year in perpetuity, and to that extent we may never be properly rid of the consequences of this evil event.
    Masks have been worn casually, by millions, in East Asia - eg Japan, HK, Singapore - for a decade or more. They have remained civilised societies.

    It is seen as a polite courtesy to others: if you have a cold or flu, or even suspect you have, put a bloody mask on, so you don't spread it.

    The Asians are quite right. If you do think you've got a bug, put a mask on.

    We used to spit everywhere until TB made that unaffordably antisocial.

    I won't cry if we adopt this very sensible social protocol.
    There is a real problem for deaf people who rely on lipreading. But force majeure.

    I'd be happier if you could rely on people with the sniffles to be sensible in the first place. And everyone to wear it properly. The lack of any such public information campaign - and I include the devolvled governments in that - has been a shocking lapse.
    Totally agree. During WW2 - and this is now like a wartime emergency - there were endless public broadcasts for radio and cinema, advising on every aspect of wartime life, and how we had to adjust.

    We need these on TV and Facebook and TikTok. eg This is WHY you wear a mask, this is HOW, this is WHEN, and much much more. Get Ed bloody Sheeran and the stars of TOWIE to do it. Who cares. We need public education. Make it funny, but do it.

    I note the German government has now mandated FFP2 masks for wearing indoors. Not just a sexy banditi gaiter or a papery blue thing. The real deal. That is coming here, I suspect, and soon.
    I'd be delighed to see that. And people made to wear them without being allowed to whine. Only a doctor's letter allowed as a letoff. (But some with windows for deaf people's companions - yes, they do exist, and good thing too.)
    Agreed. In Austria, all retirees (including foreign nationals resident there) have been sent a medical-grade mask free of charge by the Government.
    +1

    The government should be sending medical-grade FFP2 or FFP3 masks to every household, with instructions for use. To get people used to them. Because I think they are coming, and will be mandatory. Surgical masks or gaiters are not good enough against the new variants.

    I have personally migrated to FFP3 for using the Tube, the few times I get on it. Maximum protection.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,575
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    I imagine the US is saying something like:
    Ceci n'est pas une special relationship, it's a bust you thin skinned, stupid feckers.

    Or words to that effect.

    https://twitter.com/USAinUK/status/1352642302091653121?s=20

    Hmm. That won't cut it. They need to explain where else they've moved it to and why Churchill is still revered as a founder and symbol of it. That arguably makes it worse.

    They know perfectly well that Boris criticised Obama over doing this last time (and in no uncertain terms either.. Biden's team have mentioned it numerous times).

    The moving of this without notice or warning wasn't an accident; it was a statement.
    I see flag totemism has moved on. If you haven't got a bust of Winston on your desk then you must be a woke cultural Marxist.
    Where do a model of Thunderbird 2 and a stuffed echidna souvenir ex Adelaide place me?
    Local church hall's jumble sale?
    And about to have your collar felt for a CITES infraction.
    I should have said a toy monotreme - wouldn't dream of importing a real Tachyglossus (seeing them in the flesh was a great treat, including in the wild, ditto a platypus).
    "Stand down the SWAT team....repeat.....stand down."
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,845

    Thoughts and prayers for PB pissheads.

    UK drinkers face paying up to £1.50 extra a bottle on many European wines while choosing from a reduced range, merchants have warned, as the burden of post-Brexit paperwork takes effect.

    Importers said the cost of new customs declarations and certifications, plus higher haulage prices, would hit the pockets of British wine drinkers, while flat-rate costs per shipment were pushing wholesalers to offer a narrower selection of bottles.

    “We are looking at a totally avoidable increase in the cost of wine across the board,” said Jason Millar, a director at wholesaler Theatre of Wine. “Many importers will cut wines, not because they don’t believe in them . . . but because they don’t feel they are able to muster enough volume.”

    Daniel Lambert, a wine wholesaler who imports around 2m bottles a year for UK retailers, said he estimated post-Brexit bureaucracy would add £1 to £1.50 to the price of a £12 bottle of wine.


    https://www.ft.com/content/2747ddf8-7f6c-4b34-9e40-36d6c4178203

    Beer drinking northern leavers couldn't give a XXXX.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    I imagine the US is saying something like:
    Ceci n'est pas une special relationship, it's a bust you thin skinned, stupid feckers.

    Or words to that effect.

    https://twitter.com/USAinUK/status/1352642302091653121?s=20

    Hmm. That won't cut it. They need to explain where else they've moved it to and why Churchill is still revered as a founder and symbol of it. That arguably makes it worse.

    They know perfectly well that Boris criticised Obama over doing this last time (and in no uncertain terms either.. Biden's team have mentioned it numerous times).

    The moving of this without notice or warning wasn't an accident; it was a statement.
    I see flag totemism has moved on. If you haven't got a bust of Winston on your desk then you must be a woke cultural Marxist.
    Where do a model of Thunderbird 2 and a stuffed echidna souvenir ex Adelaide place me?
    Local church hall's jumble sale?
    And about to have your collar felt for a CITES infraction.
    I should have said a toy monotreme - wouldn't dream of importing a real Tachyglossus (seeing them in the flesh was a great treat, including in the wild, ditto a platypus).
    I have seen platypi several times. Once I saw 4 or 5 in one go. Marvellous.

    Odd statistic: I believe 95% of Australians have never seen a duck-billed platypus in the wild.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914

    Don't be a tease Senate Minority Leader.

    Maybe if they let him pretend to be Majority leader for a month or so he'll stop teasing and follow through.
  • Just out of curiosity, is there a bust of Franklin Roosevelt in the Prime Minister's office. Surely at some point, but now?

    Think FDR is to UK, what WSC is to US: a VERY positive figure, greatly admired, with MUCH less criticism than at home.

    There is no bust of FDR in the PM's office.

    As our site's resident American just how badly will Biden lose the 2024 election because he removed Churchill's bust?

    GOP gain California?
    NO BUST OF FDR IN THE PM'S OFFICE?!?!

    Think that Churchill would be outraged!

    Was there EVER an FDR bust in the PM's office, and if so, which PM removed it? American wants to know!!
    There is no equivalent of the Oval Office so different Prime Ministers set up office in different rooms at Number 10.
    So the First Lord of the Treasury works out of a cubicle? OK, does Boris have ANY Rooseveltian mementos within eyesight somewhere in No. 10? Maybe in the executive WC?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    eek said:

    On topic, one thing to bear in mind is that all the House congressmen will be up again in 2022 and could be primaried. Also the redistricting should have happened before then which potentially gives state parties, where they control redistricting, the opportunity to either strengthen or weaken the electoral position of individual congressmen.

    Of the Republican senators:

    18 are up in 2022
    10 are up in 2024
    20 are up in 2026
    2 are standing down in 2022

    Congress has done it's job, it's now up to the senators to decide whether it's best to have Trump outside pi**ing in or allow Trump to remain in the party.
    However the calculation most may make is what is easier, not what is best. Nothing is usually easier than something.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,575

    Thoughts and prayers for PB pissheads.

    UK drinkers face paying up to £1.50 extra a bottle on many European wines while choosing from a reduced range, merchants have warned, as the burden of post-Brexit paperwork takes effect.

    Importers said the cost of new customs declarations and certifications, plus higher haulage prices, would hit the pockets of British wine drinkers, while flat-rate costs per shipment were pushing wholesalers to offer a narrower selection of bottles.

    “We are looking at a totally avoidable increase in the cost of wine across the board,” said Jason Millar, a director at wholesaler Theatre of Wine. “Many importers will cut wines, not because they don’t believe in them . . . but because they don’t feel they are able to muster enough volume.”

    Daniel Lambert, a wine wholesaler who imports around 2m bottles a year for UK retailers, said he estimated post-Brexit bureaucracy would add £1 to £1.50 to the price of a £12 bottle of wine.


    https://www.ft.com/content/2747ddf8-7f6c-4b34-9e40-36d6c4178203

    Beer drinking northern leavers couldn't give a XXXX.
    They are waiting to hear that EU ski passes will cost 150% more....
  • Leon said:

    Thoughts and prayers for PB pissheads.

    UK drinkers face paying up to £1.50 extra a bottle on many European wines while choosing from a reduced range, merchants have warned, as the burden of post-Brexit paperwork takes effect.

    Importers said the cost of new customs declarations and certifications, plus higher haulage prices, would hit the pockets of British wine drinkers, while flat-rate costs per shipment were pushing wholesalers to offer a narrower selection of bottles.

    “We are looking at a totally avoidable increase in the cost of wine across the board,” said Jason Millar, a director at wholesaler Theatre of Wine. “Many importers will cut wines, not because they don’t believe in them . . . but because they don’t feel they are able to muster enough volume.”

    Daniel Lambert, a wine wholesaler who imports around 2m bottles a year for UK retailers, said he estimated post-Brexit bureaucracy would add £1 to £1.50 to the price of a £12 bottle of wine.


    https://www.ft.com/content/2747ddf8-7f6c-4b34-9e40-36d6c4178203

    I do feel for Remoaners. All this evidence that they were TOTALLY RIGHT ALL ALONG JUST LOOK AT WHAT A C GRAYLING SAID THEN JOLYON AND GINA AND ALSO ALSO ALSO LOOK I HAVE AN EU FLAG IN MY TWITTER AVATAR EU FOREVER!!! FBPE!!!!!!! is going to be completely submerged by the global calamity of Covid. And no one will notice.
    Remainers are just gutted that they were right. If Boris gets away with it because of Covid then that's no great shakes - he's gotten away with dodgy stuff a thousand times before.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,460

    Another of my peeves. Why does the Government not say to people that they should minimise their trips to the supermarket to buy groceries? Get home delivery or click and collect whenever you can. If not, then one member of the household should go and get a big shop.

    Every time someone pops into Tesco there is a risk of infection. Don't go if you can avoid it.

    Simple stuff.

    Yes. An oddity is that in the early days my pharmacy did two lots of my monthly prescription so as to halve the number of visits, but they've now explicitly reverted to saying that we should all (itrrespective of the type of medication) come monthly and refrain from asking for anything else.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,140

    I imagine the US is saying something like:
    Ceci n'est pas une special relationship, it's a bust you thin skinned, stupid feckers.

    Or words to that effect.

    https://twitter.com/USAinUK/status/1352642302091653121?s=20

    Hmm. That won't cut it. They need to explain where else they've moved it to and why Churchill is still revered as a founder and symbol of it. That arguably makes it worse.

    They know perfectly well that Boris criticised Obama over doing this last time (and in no uncertain terms either.. Biden's team have mentioned it numerous times).

    The moving of this without notice or warning wasn't an accident; it was a statement.
    Sorry CR. You know that you and I see eye to eye on many things but this is one where I am afraid you have gone way overboard.

    The President does not have to explain anything. Not one damn thing. It his his office, his seat of power and his right to decorate it any way he wants.

    There will be a very long list of people he might want to honour in his office - and I do accept that every picture, every sculpting is symbolic. But Churchill is just one of dozens - probably hundreds - of people worthy of being honoured with a place in the Oval Office and perhaps Biden just decided that it was time someone else got a bit of reverence.

    I very much fear I am going to be disappointed by the Biden presidency (although I am very open to being proved wrong on this, indeed a really do hope I am). But the fact he has moved out a bust to another room or even into storage does not bother me for one nano-second. Nor should it bother you.
    Of course he can. And I largely agree with you. But any astute politician will be aware of and attuned to the political implications of any of his actions, and how they can be perceived. Churchill is a deeply important symbol in US-UK relations - and this bust in particular, due to past controversy. We all know that.

    I think, on this, Biden could have reassured - but either chose not to or forgot not to. Either way, I think that tells us a little bit about his administration.
    It tells us not one single thing we didn't already know. We knew Biden wasn't going to be as friendly to the UK as, for example, Reagan or Bush were. He was Obama's VP so we can probably expect he will treat the UK in much the same way Obama did unless we do something to particularly impress or particularly annoy.

    But what Biden will do is do exactly what he thinks is best for America. That could in theory include everything from making us the most privileged partner in the world to dropping bombs on us. He won't do either of course but what he will do is what is best for the country he was elected to lead not what is best for the UK or any other country for that matter. That is why the bust is so meaningless. If it isn't clear to the UK what Biden thinks of us yet then it will become very clear when he starts talking to us or starts making decisions.

    That is all that matters.
    There's one other thing to add to this: Biden is a multilateralist at heart. And that means he's going to want good relations with the US's democratic allies: Canada, Korea, Australia, Germany, Japan and - yes - the UK.

    He'll want all that because he knows that if he wants to push against China or Russia or North Korea, then it's a hell of a lot easier if it's not just the US, but the whole developed democratic world moving together.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    DavidL said:

    I am trying to think of why anyone would ever have essential travel in Belgium. Outflanking the Maginot line in 1939 was the best possibility I could come up with but its not particularly recent.
    It contains the Capital of Europe. I saw that on a leaflet someone brought back from a trip to Brussells, so it must be true.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,140

    I appear to have accidentally logged on to weight watchers....

    C'mon, don't be shy, get on the scales.....

    Lardy arse.
    FYI, I am just off to the pain cave for 50km on the Bike-ERG....
    Are you a Zwift-er?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,575
    I've gone back to the first series of The Wire. Damn it's good. If a little disconcerting, seeing Dominic West and Idris Elba looking about 12.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914

    Don't be a tease Senate Minority Leader.

    He's not in the minority by much. AND would still be Majority Leader if not for Trumpsky.
    The latter does seem like a reason to stick the knife in. McConnell may have just one term left in the Senate (though who knows, people age very well these days), and it would have been much more fun with a majority.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Toms said:

    Talking about burning calories and invigorating the circulatory system, at my advanced age (Justa had a Corona jab) I can still burn about 300 calories in a half hour. I listen to stuff like Van Morrison, Bach, Mike Oldfield, U2, and Respighi. I suspect the after effects may also burn a few calories.

    This is on the turbo trainer. I drape bits of old sheet in critical places to catch the sweat. The bike is is an elegant classic ten speed Holdsworth with Capagnolo bits and I don't want it rusting.
    Too much info? sorry
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914

    I'll say it again, if Trump is convicted by the Senate the worst he gets is being barred from running again.

    Any criminal and civil trials his lawyers, Messrs Hutz and Giulianim, can argue that Trump cannot get a fair trial following the Senate conviction.

    So it might be in his best interests to be convicted by the Senate.

    It might be in every bodies interests. The democrats can say see he is a bad man, the republicans will not have to worry about Trump turning up for another primary and Trump gets to claim witch hunt.
    Good point, Trump loves playing victim, and he wouldn't have to worry anymore about actually doing things. Win win.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    To try to make myself feel a little better, I'm going to attempt some optimism about 2021 and make a guess about what happens assuming that we don't get a vaccine-resistant SuperCovid that causes everything to go completely to shit.

    1. Long miserable slog through to April or May, i.e. until we get as far as lancing all the over 50s
    2. Primary schools then come back, some baby steps on people meeting outside their household, and gyms, hair and beauty reopen, followed by a 3-4 week gap to see what happens next
    3. Assuming that's OK, we get the non-essential shops and possibly venues like museums, art galleries and National Trust properties, where visitor numbers and movement can be carefully managed. That's it until about September, which is my best guess at when the rest of the adult population will have been jabbed. I suspect that the scientists will go mental if there's any suggestion of unshuttering hospitality. If that's the case then hopefully the Government will also show some common sense and drop its obsessions with getting secondary schools back and letting people go on foreign holidays as well
    4. We finally get the rest of education and whatever is left of hospitality back once the entire vaccination program is completed, along with a broader relaxation of rules on social gatherings. Sporting events and surviving theatres allowed to reopen but with substantially reduced crowds
    5. Widespread imposition of masks and social distancing rules continues until April 2022, when the Coronavirus Act is chucked in the dustbin and all the remaining restrictions go - however...
    6. Some elements of mask wearing and social distancing will probably be reintroduced between October and March every year for the rest of time, which will render all smaller hospitality premises apart from takeaways permanently uneconomic

    I'm non-committal on when I think foreign travel may resume - whether that comes back in September or we have to wait until next year. I think more likely the former, although some destinations like Australia might not want us back for a couple of years anyway.

    In summary, bloody awful but at least most of the bullshit ends eventually. That's about as sunny as my disposition gets nowadays.

    lol. That's pretty grim, but you might be right.

    There is a reasonable worst case scenario now, that the virus continues to mutate beyond our ability to vaccinate against it, and civilised life as we know it simply ends.

    HOWEVER, in that scenario, I believe we would adapt in a year or two, by simply factoring in a much higher risk of death, disease, disablement. We would go back to a world pre-antibiotics, where a humble infection could easily kill you, and we'd shrug and accept this, and go back to what we were. Sex, love, society would assume their rightful priority in our lives. A few would cower away: that would be their choice.
    Antibiotic resistance might stuff us up that badly in the end. I don't think it likely that coronavirus will, although given how dreadfully this has gone so far I do worry that we may get unlucky and have to deal with the kind of mutation disaster you describe at least once before we properly put a lid on it. I'm trying hard not to contemplate that, but it really does worry me that this may drag on for a very long time.

    I'm also afraid that the combination of Covid and flu might be used to try to force us into wearing gags for six months of every year in perpetuity, and to that extent we may never be properly rid of the consequences of this evil event.
    Masks have been worn casually, by millions, in East Asia - eg Japan, HK, Singapore - for a decade or more. They have remained civilised societies.

    It is seen as a polite courtesy to others: if you have a cold or flu, or even suspect you have, put a bloody mask on, so you don't spread it.

    The Asians are quite right. If you do think you've got a bug, put a mask on.

    We used to spit everywhere until TB made that unaffordably antisocial.

    I won't cry if we adopt this very sensible social protocol.
    There is a real problem for deaf people who rely on lipreading. But force majeure.

    I'd be happier if you could rely on people with the sniffles to be sensible in the first place. And everyone to wear it properly. The lack of any such public information campaign - and I include the devolvled governments in that - has been a shocking lapse.
    Totally agree. During WW2 - and this is now like a wartime emergency - there were endless public broadcasts for radio and cinema, advising on every aspect of wartime life, and how we had to adjust.

    We need these on TV and Facebook and TikTok. eg This is WHY you wear a mask, this is HOW, this is WHEN, and much much more. Get Ed bloody Sheeran and the stars of TOWIE to do it. Who cares. We need public education. Make it funny, but do it.

    I note the German government has now mandated FFP2 masks for wearing indoors. Not just a sexy banditi gaiter or a papery blue thing. The real deal. That is coming here, I suspect, and soon.
    *Do we have enough medical grade masks for the whole population in the first place?
    *These things are both (a) single use and (b) very expensive - are they going to be doled out for free or will the hard-up have to shell out for them (and then, presumably, re-use the same one repeatedly until it falls apart?)
    *Are people going to be educated in how to use them properly? This is important: they're no more use than a blue papery thing if applied in a slapdash manner, because you just end up breathing out of the gaps at the sides rather than through the filter
    *Are put upon shop staff now going to be required to adjudicate on whether or not somebody is wearing the correct kind of face mask, and whether they are wearing it properly or not, before letting them onto the premises?
    *Beards play havoc with the face fit of tight sealing masks - does this mean that beardies will be barred from all premises where FFP2 masks are required? Might some alternative like a full hood be considered acceptable instead, or not? And will shop workers also be forced to rule on whether or not a male mask wearer is sufficiently clean shaven, or alternatively whether his hood or similar substitute is compliant with the law and correctly fitted?

    I wonder if the Germans have thought all of this through, or whether they've just told people to shell out for FFP2 masks and otherwise left them to their own devices - in which case, it's just another example of useless something-must-be-done-ism.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Leon said:

    Thoughts and prayers for PB pissheads.

    UK drinkers face paying up to £1.50 extra a bottle on many European wines while choosing from a reduced range, merchants have warned, as the burden of post-Brexit paperwork takes effect.

    Importers said the cost of new customs declarations and certifications, plus higher haulage prices, would hit the pockets of British wine drinkers, while flat-rate costs per shipment were pushing wholesalers to offer a narrower selection of bottles.

    “We are looking at a totally avoidable increase in the cost of wine across the board,” said Jason Millar, a director at wholesaler Theatre of Wine. “Many importers will cut wines, not because they don’t believe in them . . . but because they don’t feel they are able to muster enough volume.”

    Daniel Lambert, a wine wholesaler who imports around 2m bottles a year for UK retailers, said he estimated post-Brexit bureaucracy would add £1 to £1.50 to the price of a £12 bottle of wine.


    https://www.ft.com/content/2747ddf8-7f6c-4b34-9e40-36d6c4178203

    I do feel for Remoaners. All this evidence that they were TOTALLY RIGHT ALL ALONG JUST LOOK AT WHAT A C GRAYLING SAID THEN JOLYON AND GINA AND ALSO ALSO ALSO LOOK I HAVE AN EU FLAG IN MY TWITTER AVATAR EU FOREVER!!! FBPE!!!!!!! is going to be completely submerged by the global calamity of Covid. And no one will notice.
    God is a Leaver?

    We know his Supreme Governor is, so it only stands to reason that he would be as well.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Another of my peeves. Why does the Government not say to people that they should minimise their trips to the supermarket to buy groceries? Get home delivery or click and collect whenever you can. If not, then one member of the household should go and get a big shop.

    That point was made today at the Scottish Government briefing
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914

    I imagine the US is saying something like:
    Ceci n'est pas une special relationship, it's a bust you thin skinned, stupid feckers.

    Or words to that effect.

    https://twitter.com/USAinUK/status/1352642302091653121?s=20

    Hmm. That won't cut it. They need to explain where else they've moved it to and why Churchill is still revered as a founder and symbol of it. That arguably makes it worse.

    They know perfectly well that Boris criticised Obama over doing this last time (and in no uncertain terms either.. Biden's team have mentioned it numerous times).

    The moving of this without notice or warning wasn't an accident; it was a statement.
    Us demanding an explanation and crying about it would turn it from a statement from them into a farce.

    Perhaps the statement was we need to calm the f*ck down about it, and it embarrases them for us to be so clingy, like we're that meme of a guy looking at another girl's butt while our girlfriend looks on, offended, with us as the jealous girlfriend.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    To try to make myself feel a little better, I'm going to attempt some optimism about 2021 and make a guess about what happens assuming that we don't get a vaccine-resistant SuperCovid that causes everything to go completely to shit.

    1. Long miserable slog through to April or May, i.e. until we get as far as lancing all the over 50s
    2. Primary schools then come back, some baby steps on people meeting outside their household, and gyms, hair and beauty reopen, followed by a 3-4 week gap to see what happens next
    3. Assuming that's OK, we get the non-essential shops and possibly venues like museums, art galleries and National Trust properties, where visitor numbers and movement can be carefully managed. That's it until about September, which is my best guess at when the rest of the adult population will have been jabbed. I suspect that the scientists will go mental if there's any suggestion of unshuttering hospitality. If that's the case then hopefully the Government will also show some common sense and drop its obsessions with getting secondary schools back and letting people go on foreign holidays as well
    4. We finally get the rest of education and whatever is left of hospitality back once the entire vaccination program is completed, along with a broader relaxation of rules on social gatherings. Sporting events and surviving theatres allowed to reopen but with substantially reduced crowds
    5. Widespread imposition of masks and social distancing rules continues until April 2022, when the Coronavirus Act is chucked in the dustbin and all the remaining restrictions go - however...
    6. Some elements of mask wearing and social distancing will probably be reintroduced between October and March every year for the rest of time, which will render all smaller hospitality premises apart from takeaways permanently uneconomic

    I'm non-committal on when I think foreign travel may resume - whether that comes back in September or we have to wait until next year. I think more likely the former, although some destinations like Australia might not want us back for a couple of years anyway.

    In summary, bloody awful but at least most of the bullshit ends eventually. That's about as sunny as my disposition gets nowadays.

    lol. That's pretty grim, but you might be right.

    There is a reasonable worst case scenario now, that the virus continues to mutate beyond our ability to vaccinate against it, and civilised life as we know it simply ends.

    HOWEVER, in that scenario, I believe we would adapt in a year or two, by simply factoring in a much higher risk of death, disease, disablement. We would go back to a world pre-antibiotics, where a humble infection could easily kill you, and we'd shrug and accept this, and go back to what we were. Sex, love, society would assume their rightful priority in our lives. A few would cower away: that would be their choice.
    Antibiotic resistance might stuff us up that badly in the end. I don't think it likely that coronavirus will, although given how dreadfully this has gone so far I do worry that we may get unlucky and have to deal with the kind of mutation disaster you describe at least once before we properly put a lid on it. I'm trying hard not to contemplate that, but it really does worry me that this may drag on for a very long time.

    I'm also afraid that the combination of Covid and flu might be used to try to force us into wearing gags for six months of every year in perpetuity, and to that extent we may never be properly rid of the consequences of this evil event.
    Masks have been worn casually, by millions, in East Asia - eg Japan, HK, Singapore - for a decade or more. They have remained civilised societies.

    It is seen as a polite courtesy to others: if you have a cold or flu, or even suspect you have, put a bloody mask on, so you don't spread it.

    The Asians are quite right. If you do think you've got a bug, put a mask on.

    We used to spit everywhere until TB made that unaffordably antisocial.

    I won't cry if we adopt this very sensible social protocol.
    Sensible use by the sick I can learn to live with. Compulsory use for everyone for half the year is a different matter.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914

    AstraZeneca is to cut vaccine supplies to EU member states by 60%, to 31 million doses, in the first quarter of 2021

    Via @Reuters

    Heroic work was done by many to develop all these vaccines in so short a time, but one area they do appear bad at is overpromising on the production and delivery. It may well be that producing as many as they have been is also a heroic undertaking, but nations do appear to have expected a lot more a lot sooner.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,618
    edited January 2021

    I just cannot raise the effort to get upset at the re-siting of Winston Churchill's bust

    As someone who lay in his Mothers arms in Greater Manchester, under a steel table, as Hitler's v bombs roared overhead, one stopping directly above resulting in the death of six of our neighbours, I and the country owe a huge debt to Winston Churchill

    However, I do not see the location of his bust in the oval office a matter of any consequence to be fair in the overall scheme of things

    Personally am glad that there is no one looking over MY shoulder when I rearrange the brick-a-brac in my (approximately square) office.
    I have quite a big Betsy Ross flag in my office, alongside my collection of wierd things that patients have given me over the years, from a signed LCFC football, a Royal Tank Regiment mug and a large copper key rack from Zambia amongst others.

    MS Teams and Zoom have given me multiple opportunities to show them off. I find it adds just the right level of absurdity to meetings.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,525
    Whiff of desperation about this wouldn't you say?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    A plan with no real downsides for them, win or lose in court.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,525
    kle4 said:

    A plan with no real downsides for them, win or lose in court.
    It's not a plan, it's Nicola trying to save her skin by throwing the nutters some red meat.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    Aaaaand the Unionists boycott it. Catalonia 2.0. The end of indy for a generation
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,575
    Scott_xP said:
    You can almost hear those glasses being chinked in New Zealand, Australia, South Africa....
  • Whiff of desperation about this wouldn't you say?
    There is only one way to have an internationally recognised referendum and that is the same route the last one followed

    Anything else will result in years of endless challenges from all sides
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    edited January 2021

    kle4 said:

    A plan with no real downsides for them, win or lose in court.
    It's not a plan, it's Nicola trying to save her skin by throwing the nutters some red meat.
    Might well be, but the SNP will either succeed, or have a grievance to use, so who cares about Nicola?
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 755
    I think this is what Curtice is talking about from about 1:26:00

    https://youtu.be/VJJ8ELlABvI?t=5108
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,525

    Scott_xP said:
    You can almost hear those glasses being chinked in New Zealand, Australia, South Africa....
    Not to mention Chile, Argentina or California. I like French, Italian and German wines, but I can't say I've noticed them being that much cheaper and more dazzling in their variety than the non-EU alternatives.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,023

    Whiff of desperation about this wouldn't you say?
    A nice distraction from the Salmond case I guess.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    Scott_xP said:
    OR..... we just buy more wine from Oz, NZ, SA, the USA, Chile, Argentina, Georgia, Israel, and so on, and so forth. Who fucking cares?

    Moreover, the UK now makes tons of good bubbly and its whites are creeping up. Importing less from the EU is, arguably, a GOOD thing.

    The fine wine market will be fine, because a mark up of 50p a bottle or whatever means zero to people buying Chateau Figeac en primeur for £1000 a case
  • rcs1000 said:

    I appear to have accidentally logged on to weight watchers....

    C'mon, don't be shy, get on the scales.....

    Lardy arse.
    FYI, I am just off to the pain cave for 50km on the Bike-ERG....
    Are you a Zwift-er?
    I certainly am.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,150
    edited January 2021
    Scott_xP said:
    The quote of £1.50 a bottle is given by a guy who makes you look balanced on Brexit. I don't doubt there is / will be issues, but the two people they quote in their article, their twitter account are full on every single this government does is not just rubbish, they are pure evil (not just Brexit).
  • Another of my peeves. Why does the Government not say to people that they should minimise their trips to the supermarket to buy groceries? Get home delivery or click and collect whenever you can. If not, then one member of the household should go and get a big shop.

    Every time someone pops into Tesco there is a risk of infection. Don't go if you can avoid it.

    Simple stuff.

    It sort of does. At least there are posters saying shop alone.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,618

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    To try to make myself feel a little better, I'm going to attempt some optimism about 2021 and make a guess about what happens assuming that we don't get a vaccine-resistant SuperCovid that causes everything to go completely to shit.

    1. Long miserable slog through to April or May, i.e. until we get as far as lancing all the over 50s
    2. Primary schools then come back, some baby steps on people meeting outside their household, and gyms, hair and beauty reopen, followed by a 3-4 week gap to see what happens next
    3. Assuming that's OK, we get the non-essential shops and possibly venues like museums, art galleries and National Trust properties, where visitor numbers and movement can be carefully managed. That's it until about September, which is my best guess at when the rest of the adult population will have been jabbed. I suspect that the scientists will go mental if there's any suggestion of unshuttering hospitality. If that's the case then hopefully the Government will also show some common sense and drop its obsessions with getting secondary schools back and letting people go on foreign holidays as well
    4. We finally get the rest of education and whatever is left of hospitality back once the entire vaccination program is completed, along with a broader relaxation of rules on social gatherings. Sporting events and surviving theatres allowed to reopen but with substantially reduced crowds
    5. Widespread imposition of masks and social distancing rules continues until April 2022, when the Coronavirus Act is chucked in the dustbin and all the remaining restrictions go - however...
    6. Some elements of mask wearing and social distancing will probably be reintroduced between October and March every year for the rest of time, which will render all smaller hospitality premises apart from takeaways permanently uneconomic

    I'm non-committal on when I think foreign travel may resume - whether that comes back in September or we have to wait until next year. I think more likely the former, although some destinations like Australia might not want us back for a couple of years anyway.

    In summary, bloody awful but at least most of the bullshit ends eventually. That's about as sunny as my disposition gets nowadays.

    lol. That's pretty grim, but you might be right.

    There is a reasonable worst case scenario now, that the virus continues to mutate beyond our ability to vaccinate against it, and civilised life as we know it simply ends.

    HOWEVER, in that scenario, I believe we would adapt in a year or two, by simply factoring in a much higher risk of death, disease, disablement. We would go back to a world pre-antibiotics, where a humble infection could easily kill you, and we'd shrug and accept this, and go back to what we were. Sex, love, society would assume their rightful priority in our lives. A few would cower away: that would be their choice.
    Antibiotic resistance might stuff us up that badly in the end. I don't think it likely that coronavirus will, although given how dreadfully this has gone so far I do worry that we may get unlucky and have to deal with the kind of mutation disaster you describe at least once before we properly put a lid on it. I'm trying hard not to contemplate that, but it really does worry me that this may drag on for a very long time.

    I'm also afraid that the combination of Covid and flu might be used to try to force us into wearing gags for six months of every year in perpetuity, and to that extent we may never be properly rid of the consequences of this evil event.
    Masks have been worn casually, by millions, in East Asia - eg Japan, HK, Singapore - for a decade or more. They have remained civilised societies.

    It is seen as a polite courtesy to others: if you have a cold or flu, or even suspect you have, put a bloody mask on, so you don't spread it.

    The Asians are quite right. If you do think you've got a bug, put a mask on.

    We used to spit everywhere until TB made that unaffordably antisocial.

    I won't cry if we adopt this very sensible social protocol.
    There is a real problem for deaf people who rely on lipreading. But force majeure.

    I'd be happier if you could rely on people with the sniffles to be sensible in the first place. And everyone to wear it properly. The lack of any such public information campaign - and I include the devolvled governments in that - has been a shocking lapse.
    Totally agree. During WW2 - and this is now like a wartime emergency - there were endless public broadcasts for radio and cinema, advising on every aspect of wartime life, and how we had to adjust.

    We need these on TV and Facebook and TikTok. eg This is WHY you wear a mask, this is HOW, this is WHEN, and much much more. Get Ed bloody Sheeran and the stars of TOWIE to do it. Who cares. We need public education. Make it funny, but do it.

    I note the German government has now mandated FFP2 masks for wearing indoors. Not just a sexy banditi gaiter or a papery blue thing. The real deal. That is coming here, I suspect, and soon.
    *Do we have enough medical grade masks for the whole population in the first place?
    *These things are both (a) single use and (b) very expensive - are they going to be doled out for free or will the hard-up have to shell out for them (and then, presumably, re-use the same one repeatedly until it falls apart?)
    *Are people going to be educated in how to use them properly? This is important: they're no more use than a blue papery thing if applied in a slapdash manner, because you just end up breathing out of the gaps at the sides rather than through the filter
    *Are put upon shop staff now going to be required to adjudicate on whether or not somebody is wearing the correct kind of face mask, and whether they are wearing it properly or not, before letting them onto the premises?
    *Beards play havoc with the face fit of tight sealing masks - does this mean that beardies will be barred from all premises where FFP2 masks are required? Might some alternative like a full hood be considered acceptable instead, or not? And will shop workers also be forced to rule on whether or not a male mask wearer is sufficiently clean shaven, or alternatively whether his hood or similar substitute is compliant with the law and correctly fitted?

    I wonder if the Germans have thought all of this through, or whether they've just told people to shell out for FFP2 masks and otherwise left them to their own devices - in which case, it's just another example of useless something-must-be-done-ism.
    FFP2 masks are just regular fluid filtering surgical masks. It is FFP3 (N95 in USA) that filter aerosols and need careful fitting, clean shave etc.

    I was issued a box of FFP3 today, both Mrs Foxy and I are doing ICU shifts next week. They are getting a bit desperate.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,525
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    A plan with no real downsides for them, win or lose in court.
    It's not a plan, it's Nicola trying to save her skin by throwing the nutters some red meat.
    Might well be, but the SNP will either succeed, or have a grievance to use, so who cares about Nicola?
    Anyone who wants the SNP to be remotely electable.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,098
    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

  • Just out of curiosity, is there a bust of Franklin Roosevelt in the Prime Minister's office. Surely at some point, but now?

    Think FDR is to UK, what WSC is to US: a VERY positive figure, greatly admired, with MUCH less criticism than at home.

    There is no bust of FDR in the PM's office.

    As our site's resident American just how badly will Biden lose the 2024 election because he removed Churchill's bust?

    GOP gain California?
    NO BUST OF FDR IN THE PM'S OFFICE?!?!

    Think that Churchill would be outraged!

    Was there EVER an FDR bust in the PM's office, and if so, which PM removed it? American wants to know!!
    There is no equivalent of the Oval Office so different Prime Ministers set up office in different rooms at Number 10.
    So the First Lord of the Treasury works out of a cubicle? OK, does Boris have ANY Rooseveltian mementos within eyesight somewhere in No. 10? Maybe in the executive WC?
    Churchill won the War single-handedly, you see. FDR had no part to play :lol:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,575
    Leon said:

    Aaaaand the Unionists boycott it. Catalonia 2.0. The end of indy for a generation
    Must have been some lengthy strategy meetings behind that plan. lol.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,098
    edited January 2021

    Scott_xP said:
    The quote of £1.50 a bottle is given by a guy who makes you look balanced on Brexit. I don't doubt there is / will be issues, but the two people they quote in their article, their twitter account are full on every single this government does is not just rubbish, they are pure evil (not just Brexit).
    £1.50 a bottle on decent wine is less than exchange rate fluctations.

    All it will do is drive more people to new world wines. Which in my experience, frankly, at the sub £10 a bottle range, tend to be better anyway.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,335

    I've gone back to the first series of The Wire. Damn it's good. If a little disconcerting, seeing Dominic West and Idris Elba looking about 12.

    Absolutely top television. If I run out of Netflix stuff I haven't seen I shall do my fourth revisit.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,150
    edited January 2021
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    To try to make myself feel a little better, I'm going to attempt some optimism about 2021 and make a guess about what happens assuming that we don't get a vaccine-resistant SuperCovid that causes everything to go completely to shit.

    1. Long miserable slog through to April or May, i.e. until we get as far as lancing all the over 50s
    2. Primary schools then come back, some baby steps on people meeting outside their household, and gyms, hair and beauty reopen, followed by a 3-4 week gap to see what happens next
    3. Assuming that's OK, we get the non-essential shops and possibly venues like museums, art galleries and National Trust properties, where visitor numbers and movement can be carefully managed. That's it until about September, which is my best guess at when the rest of the adult population will have been jabbed. I suspect that the scientists will go mental if there's any suggestion of unshuttering hospitality. If that's the case then hopefully the Government will also show some common sense and drop its obsessions with getting secondary schools back and letting people go on foreign holidays as well
    4. We finally get the rest of education and whatever is left of hospitality back once the entire vaccination program is completed, along with a broader relaxation of rules on social gatherings. Sporting events and surviving theatres allowed to reopen but with substantially reduced crowds
    5. Widespread imposition of masks and social distancing rules continues until April 2022, when the Coronavirus Act is chucked in the dustbin and all the remaining restrictions go - however...
    6. Some elements of mask wearing and social distancing will probably be reintroduced between October and March every year for the rest of time, which will render all smaller hospitality premises apart from takeaways permanently uneconomic

    I'm non-committal on when I think foreign travel may resume - whether that comes back in September or we have to wait until next year. I think more likely the former, although some destinations like Australia might not want us back for a couple of years anyway.

    In summary, bloody awful but at least most of the bullshit ends eventually. That's about as sunny as my disposition gets nowadays.

    lol. That's pretty grim, but you might be right.

    There is a reasonable worst case scenario now, that the virus continues to mutate beyond our ability to vaccinate against it, and civilised life as we know it simply ends.

    HOWEVER, in that scenario, I believe we would adapt in a year or two, by simply factoring in a much higher risk of death, disease, disablement. We would go back to a world pre-antibiotics, where a humble infection could easily kill you, and we'd shrug and accept this, and go back to what we were. Sex, love, society would assume their rightful priority in our lives. A few would cower away: that would be their choice.
    Antibiotic resistance might stuff us up that badly in the end. I don't think it likely that coronavirus will, although given how dreadfully this has gone so far I do worry that we may get unlucky and have to deal with the kind of mutation disaster you describe at least once before we properly put a lid on it. I'm trying hard not to contemplate that, but it really does worry me that this may drag on for a very long time.

    I'm also afraid that the combination of Covid and flu might be used to try to force us into wearing gags for six months of every year in perpetuity, and to that extent we may never be properly rid of the consequences of this evil event.
    Masks have been worn casually, by millions, in East Asia - eg Japan, HK, Singapore - for a decade or more. They have remained civilised societies.

    It is seen as a polite courtesy to others: if you have a cold or flu, or even suspect you have, put a bloody mask on, so you don't spread it.

    The Asians are quite right. If you do think you've got a bug, put a mask on.

    We used to spit everywhere until TB made that unaffordably antisocial.

    I won't cry if we adopt this very sensible social protocol.
    There is a real problem for deaf people who rely on lipreading. But force majeure.

    I'd be happier if you could rely on people with the sniffles to be sensible in the first place. And everyone to wear it properly. The lack of any such public information campaign - and I include the devolvled governments in that - has been a shocking lapse.
    Totally agree. During WW2 - and this is now like a wartime emergency - there were endless public broadcasts for radio and cinema, advising on every aspect of wartime life, and how we had to adjust.

    We need these on TV and Facebook and TikTok. eg This is WHY you wear a mask, this is HOW, this is WHEN, and much much more. Get Ed bloody Sheeran and the stars of TOWIE to do it. Who cares. We need public education. Make it funny, but do it.

    I note the German government has now mandated FFP2 masks for wearing indoors. Not just a sexy banditi gaiter or a papery blue thing. The real deal. That is coming here, I suspect, and soon.
    *Do we have enough medical grade masks for the whole population in the first place?
    *These things are both (a) single use and (b) very expensive - are they going to be doled out for free or will the hard-up have to shell out for them (and then, presumably, re-use the same one repeatedly until it falls apart?)
    *Are people going to be educated in how to use them properly? This is important: they're no more use than a blue papery thing if applied in a slapdash manner, because you just end up breathing out of the gaps at the sides rather than through the filter
    *Are put upon shop staff now going to be required to adjudicate on whether or not somebody is wearing the correct kind of face mask, and whether they are wearing it properly or not, before letting them onto the premises?
    *Beards play havoc with the face fit of tight sealing masks - does this mean that beardies will be barred from all premises where FFP2 masks are required? Might some alternative like a full hood be considered acceptable instead, or not? And will shop workers also be forced to rule on whether or not a male mask wearer is sufficiently clean shaven, or alternatively whether his hood or similar substitute is compliant with the law and correctly fitted?

    I wonder if the Germans have thought all of this through, or whether they've just told people to shell out for FFP2 masks and otherwise left them to their own devices - in which case, it's just another example of useless something-must-be-done-ism.
    FFP2 masks are just regular fluid filtering surgical masks. It is FFP3 (N95 in USA) that filter aerosols and need careful fitting, clean shave etc.

    I was issued a box of FFP3 today, both Mrs Foxy and I are doing ICU shifts next week. They are getting a bit desperate.
    Can I ask why when I see the news clips inside COVID wards, some staff have the M3 re-usable N95 respirator masks and others don't? I was able to pick one of those up for not a huge amount of money.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,830
    edited January 2021

    Scott_xP said:
    The quote of £1.50 a bottle is given by a guy who makes you look balanced on Brexit. I don't doubt there is / will be issues, but the two people they quote in their article, their twitter account are full on every single this government does is not just rubbish, they are pure evil (not just Brexit).
    Overprice your product no matter the reason the market goes elsewhere, and in this example there are plenty of alternative choices
  • Whiff of desperation about this wouldn't you say?
    Nope. Bloody good idea. Particularly as it is what I have been suggesting for some time and now have a bet with Leon about it. :)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899
    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    On topic - Mitch McConnell is one of the worst. No idea if he'll vote to convict Trump or not. It certainly won't be a vote borne of conscience.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,335
    Am I getting my maths wrong? If we can push up from 400K a day to 500K in next week or so then we can do everyone over 55 in six or seven weeks.

    Presumably then we must start the second doses.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,845

    Another of my peeves. Why does the Government not say to people that they should minimise their trips to the supermarket to buy groceries? Get home delivery or click and collect whenever you can. If not, then one member of the household should go and get a big shop.

    That point was made today at the Scottish Government briefing
    It's a pity they aren't my government.
  • Am I getting my maths wrong? If we can push up from 400K a day to 500K in next week or so then we can do everyone over 55 in six or seven weeks.

    Presumably then we must start the second doses.

    Unfortunately I don't think that will be happening. It has already been revealed that supply will be lower next week.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,098
    edited January 2021
    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    I'm pretty unbothered about fomites and have an allergic reaction to some hand sanitisers so stopped using them in about.....May.

    Every single person I know who has caught this has either been 1) in hospital 2) with kids in schools 3) at work or 4) socialising with lots of people. Avoiding those four (albeit 2 is difficult if one has kids) means you don't have meaningful interactions with anyone.

    I had two really nasty colds in 2019. One in November, which I caught from another local activist after she had been unwell and we spent 4 hours in a car delivering pledge letters. The other in late December, 5 days after having a proper (three bottle) lunch with someone who had a few days earlier had dinner with someone back from a few weeks in Wuhan....
  • Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,525

    Whiff of desperation about this wouldn't you say?
    Nope. Bloody good idea. Particularly as it is what I have been suggesting for some time and now have a bet with Leon about it. :)
    I wish you well in your bet, but there's more than a whiff of desperation here - for one thing, the SNP just last week set up a commission to find ways to re-engergise the push for independence - leaking this 'plan' to their house leaflet totally pre-empts that and makes it look daft (OK dafter). This would not have happened if the shark fins weren't circling Nicola. It's an attempt to woo the Salmondite wing and try to get the focus back on the Auld enemy as she tries to ride out it becoming clear that she misled the Scottish Parliament.
  • CrabbieCrabbie Posts: 55
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    I imagine the US is saying something like:
    Ceci n'est pas une special relationship, it's a bust you thin skinned, stupid feckers.

    Or words to that effect.

    https://twitter.com/USAinUK/status/1352642302091653121?s=20

    Hmm. That won't cut it. They need to explain where else they've moved it to and why Churchill is still revered as a founder and symbol of it. That arguably makes it worse.

    They know perfectly well that Boris criticised Obama over doing this last time (and in no uncertain terms either.. Biden's team have mentioned it numerous times).

    The moving of this without notice or warning wasn't an accident; it was a statement.
    I see flag totemism has moved on. If you haven't got a bust of Winston on your desk then you must be a woke cultural Marxist.
    Where do a model of Thunderbird 2 and a stuffed echidna souvenir ex Adelaide place me?
    Local church hall's jumble sale?
    And about to have your collar felt for a CITES infraction.
    I should have said a toy monotreme - wouldn't dream of importing a real Tachyglossus (seeing them in the flesh was a great treat, including in the wild, ditto a platypus).
    I have seen platypi several times. Once I saw 4 or 5 in one go. Marvellous.

    Odd statistic: I believe 95% of Australians have never seen a duck-billed platypus in the wild.
    Is pus not Greek, so technically should be platypodes? Either way I prefer platypus as the plural form.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,098
    edited January 2021

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Scaremonger article. (Almost) everyone goes to a supermarket....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,618

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    To try to make myself feel a little better, I'm going to attempt some optimism about 2021 and make a guess about what happens assuming that we don't get a vaccine-resistant SuperCovid that causes everything to go completely to shit.

    1. Long miserable slog through to April or May, i.e. until we get as far as lancing all the over 50s
    2. Primary schools then come back, some baby steps on people meeting outside their household, and gyms, hair and beauty reopen, followed by a 3-4 week gap to see what happens next
    3. Assuming that's OK, we get the non-essential shops and possibly venues like museums, art galleries and National Trust properties, where visitor numbers and movement can be carefully managed. That's it until about September, which is my best guess at when the rest of the adult population will have been jabbed. I suspect that the scientists will go mental if there's any suggestion of unshuttering hospitality. If that's the case then hopefully the Government will also show some common sense and drop its obsessions with getting secondary schools back and letting people go on foreign holidays as well
    4. We finally get the rest of education and whatever is left of hospitality back once the entire vaccination program is completed, along with a broader relaxation of rules on social gatherings. Sporting events and surviving theatres allowed to reopen but with substantially reduced crowds
    5. Widespread imposition of masks and social distancing rules continues until April 2022, when the Coronavirus Act is chucked in the dustbin and all the remaining restrictions go - however...
    6. Some elements of mask wearing and social distancing will probably be reintroduced between October and March every year for the rest of time, which will render all smaller hospitality premises apart from takeaways permanently uneconomic

    I'm non-committal on when I think foreign travel may resume - whether that comes back in September or we have to wait until next year. I think more likely the former, although some destinations like Australia might not want us back for a couple of years anyway.

    In summary, bloody awful but at least most of the bullshit ends eventually. That's about as sunny as my disposition gets nowadays.

    lol. That's pretty grim, but you might be right.

    There is a reasonable worst case scenario now, that the virus continues to mutate beyond our ability to vaccinate against it, and civilised life as we know it simply ends.

    HOWEVER, in that scenario, I believe we would adapt in a year or two, by simply factoring in a much higher risk of death, disease, disablement. We would go back to a world pre-antibiotics, where a humble infection could easily kill you, and we'd shrug and accept this, and go back to what we were. Sex, love, society would assume their rightful priority in our lives. A few would cower away: that would be their choice.
    Antibiotic resistance might stuff us up that badly in the end. I don't think it likely that coronavirus will, although given how dreadfully this has gone so far I do worry that we may get unlucky and have to deal with the kind of mutation disaster you describe at least once before we properly put a lid on it. I'm trying hard not to contemplate that, but it really does worry me that this may drag on for a very long time.

    I'm also afraid that the combination of Covid and flu might be used to try to force us into wearing gags for six months of every year in perpetuity, and to that extent we may never be properly rid of the consequences of this evil event.
    Masks have been worn casually, by millions, in East Asia - eg Japan, HK, Singapore - for a decade or more. They have remained civilised societies.

    It is seen as a polite courtesy to others: if you have a cold or flu, or even suspect you have, put a bloody mask on, so you don't spread it.

    The Asians are quite right. If you do think you've got a bug, put a mask on.

    We used to spit everywhere until TB made that unaffordably antisocial.

    I won't cry if we adopt this very sensible social protocol.
    There is a real problem for deaf people who rely on lipreading. But force majeure.

    I'd be happier if you could rely on people with the sniffles to be sensible in the first place. And everyone to wear it properly. The lack of any such public information campaign - and I include the devolvled governments in that - has been a shocking lapse.
    Totally agree. During WW2 - and this is now like a wartime emergency - there were endless public broadcasts for radio and cinema, advising on every aspect of wartime life, and how we had to adjust.

    We need these on TV and Facebook and TikTok. eg This is WHY you wear a mask, this is HOW, this is WHEN, and much much more. Get Ed bloody Sheeran and the stars of TOWIE to do it. Who cares. We need public education. Make it funny, but do it.

    I note the German government has now mandated FFP2 masks for wearing indoors. Not just a sexy banditi gaiter or a papery blue thing. The real deal. That is coming here, I suspect, and soon.
    *Do we have enough medical grade masks for the whole population in the first place?
    *These things are both (a) single use and (b) very expensive - are they going to be doled out for free or will the hard-up have to shell out for them (and then, presumably, re-use the same one repeatedly until it falls apart?)
    *Are people going to be educated in how to use them properly? This is important: they're no more use than a blue papery thing if applied in a slapdash manner, because you just end up breathing out of the gaps at the sides rather than through the filter
    *Are put upon shop staff now going to be required to adjudicate on whether or not somebody is wearing the correct kind of face mask, and whether they are wearing it properly or not, before letting them onto the premises?
    *Beards play havoc with the face fit of tight sealing masks - does this mean that beardies will be barred from all premises where FFP2 masks are required? Might some alternative like a full hood be considered acceptable instead, or not? And will shop workers also be forced to rule on whether or not a male mask wearer is sufficiently clean shaven, or alternatively whether his hood or similar substitute is compliant with the law and correctly fitted?

    I wonder if the Germans have thought all of this through, or whether they've just told people to shell out for FFP2 masks and otherwise left them to their own devices - in which case, it's just another example of useless something-must-be-done-ism.
    FFP2 masks are just regular fluid filtering surgical masks. It is FFP3 (N95 in USA) that filter aerosols and need careful fitting, clean shave etc.

    I was issued a box of FFP3 today, both Mrs Foxy and I are doing ICU shifts next week. They are getting a bit desperate.
    Can I ask why when I see the news clips inside COVID wards, some staff have the M3 re-usable N95 respirator masks and others don't? I was able to pick one of those up for not a huge amount of money.
    Some prefer one to the other, so an element of personal preference. Sometimes it is from the fit testing that we all have, about a third fail on these due to facial anatomy preventing a tight skin seal, and get issued respirators instead. The M3 respirator masks make verbal communication quite difficult, particularly in a noisy environment like ICU. There is a developing language of hand signals.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    People hate tax rises, but if ever there was a chance of people understanding taxes might need to rise you'd hope it would be over this situation.

    But its surely inevitable that whatever ones are proposed to be raised it will be said that rises will stall economic recovery, or hit people while they are struggling.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914

    Am I getting my maths wrong? If we can push up from 400K a day to 500K in next week or so then we can do everyone over 55 in six or seven weeks.

    Presumably then we must start the second doses.

    Unfortunately I don't think that will be happening. It has already been revealed that supply will be lower next week.
    Do we have any indication if the supply issue will be temporary, or if we're likely to get good weeks and bad weeks until other vaccines get approval?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,150
    edited January 2021
    kle4 said:

    Am I getting my maths wrong? If we can push up from 400K a day to 500K in next week or so then we can do everyone over 55 in six or seven weeks.

    Presumably then we must start the second doses.

    Unfortunately I don't think that will be happening. It has already been revealed that supply will be lower next week.
    Do we have any indication if the supply issue will be temporary, or if we're likely to get good weeks and bad weeks until other vaccines get approval?
    Hancock used the word lumpy today. We were supposed to get 4 million AZN ones this week, but I think we only got 2 million in the end. There is supposed to be 20 million doses ready for QA and bottling, I don't know if it has ever been made publish what part of the process is causing the hiccups.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,618
    edited January 2021
    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    I'm pretty unbothered about fomites and have an allergic reaction to some hand sanitisers so stopped using them in about.....May.

    Every single person I know who has caught this has either been 1) in hospital 2) with kids in schools 3) at work or 4) socialising with lots of people. Avoiding those four (albeit 2 is difficult if one has kids) means you don't have meaningful interactions with anyone.

    I had two really nasty colds in 2019. One in November, which I caught from another local activist after was unwell and we spent 4 hours in a car delivering pledge letters. The other in late December, 5 days after having a proper (three bottle) lunch with someone who had a few days earlier had dinner with someone back from a few weeks in Wuhan....
    I don't think fomites play much part in most transmissions, but may be quite significant in some circumstances. I think meat packing plants, with cool moist metal and ceramic surfaces would be an example.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,352
    kle4 said:

    People hate tax rises, but if ever there was a chance of people understanding taxes might need to rise you'd hope it would be over this situation.

    But its surely inevitable that whatever ones are proposed to be raised it will be said that rises will stall economic recovery, or hit people while they are struggling.
    I suspect the plan will be to announce them in October for April 22 and April 23 by which time the shock of the announcement will have been forgotten.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,052
    kle4 said:

    People hate tax rises, but if ever there was a chance of people understanding taxes might need to rise you'd hope it would be over this situation.

    But its surely inevitable that whatever ones are proposed to be raised it will be said that rises will stall economic recovery, or hit people while they are struggling.
    In 1997 there were enough people were saying "I'm prepared to pay a bit more tax, if it means that we get decent services" that the Labour Party got a majority.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,150
    edited January 2021
    kle4 said:

    People hate tax rises, but if ever there was a chance of people understanding taxes might need to rise you'd hope it would be over this situation.

    But its surely inevitable that whatever ones are proposed to be raised it will be said that rises will stall economic recovery, or hit people while they are struggling.
    I remember when Hammond announced very marginal increases that would hit well off self employed...the reaction was ludicrous and he scraped them.

    ----

    Labour urged the government to "think again" on the change, which will mean 1.6 million people paying £240 on average more every year.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39213349

    ----

    If I only get away with paying £250 extra a year in taxes to pay for COVID I will be absolutely shocked.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,845
    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,098
    Foxy said:

    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    I'm pretty unbothered about fomites and have an allergic reaction to some hand sanitisers so stopped using them in about.....May.

    Every single person I know who has caught this has either been 1) in hospital 2) with kids in schools 3) at work or 4) socialising with lots of people. Avoiding those four (albeit 2 is difficult if one has kids) means you don't have meaningful interactions with anyone.

    I had two really nasty colds in 2019. One in November, which I caught from another local activist after was unwell and we spent 4 hours in a car delivering pledge letters. The other in late December, 5 days after having a proper (three bottle) lunch with someone who had a few days earlier had dinner with someone back from a few weeks in Wuhan....
    I don't think famines play much part in most transmissions, but may be quite significant in some circumstances. I think meat packing plants, with cool moist metal and ceramic surfaces would be an example.
    @TimT made some very interesting points about this in a discussion we had in the summer. Meat processing plants are an example where fomites become aerosolised....
  • glwglw Posts: 9,796
    eristdoof said:

    kle4 said:

    People hate tax rises, but if ever there was a chance of people understanding taxes might need to rise you'd hope it would be over this situation.

    But its surely inevitable that whatever ones are proposed to be raised it will be said that rises will stall economic recovery, or hit people while they are struggling.
    In 1997 there were enough people were saying "I'm prepared to pay a bit more tax, if it means that we get decent services" that the Labour Party got a majority.
    We live in a country where people got irrationally angry about the "pasty tax", and get angry about taxes on booze, fags, fat taxes, petrol etc. Even though taxing the hell out of these things would almost certainly be a net good in the long run. When most people say "I'm prepared to pay a bit more tax" they are lying, the mean they other people should pay more.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,950
    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    Talking about burning calories and invigorating the circulatory system, at my advanced age (Justa had a Corona jab) I can still burn about 300 calories in a half hour. I listen to stuff like Van Morrison, Bach, Mike Oldfield, U2, and Respighi. I suspect the after effects may also burn a few calories.

    This is on the turbo trainer. I drape bits of old sheet in critical places to catch the sweat. The bike is is an elegant classic ten speed Holdsworth with Capagnolo bits and I don't want it rusting.
    Too much info? sorry
    The right tools tip #2454: https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-sweat-net
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,845
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Scaremonger article. (Almost) everyone goes to a supermarket....
    Well they should try not to go.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,950

    Whiff of desperation about this wouldn't you say?
    A nice distraction from the Salmond case I guess.
    There is no such thing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,150
    edited January 2021
    sarissa said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    Talking about burning calories and invigorating the circulatory system, at my advanced age (Justa had a Corona jab) I can still burn about 300 calories in a half hour. I listen to stuff like Van Morrison, Bach, Mike Oldfield, U2, and Respighi. I suspect the after effects may also burn a few calories.

    This is on the turbo trainer. I drape bits of old sheet in critical places to catch the sweat. The bike is is an elegant classic ten speed Holdsworth with Capagnolo bits and I don't want it rusting.
    Too much info? sorry
    The right tools tip #2454: https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-sweat-net
    I have a Bike-ERG...its like being a turbo trainer, but with a massive drag effect....and the only way to generate more power is to up the drag effect. You burn insane amounts of calories pushing against it.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Scaremonger article. (Almost) everyone goes to a supermarket....
    Well they should try not to go.
    Not a realistic option for the bulk of the population.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,150
    edited January 2021
    glw said:

    eristdoof said:

    kle4 said:

    People hate tax rises, but if ever there was a chance of people understanding taxes might need to rise you'd hope it would be over this situation.

    But its surely inevitable that whatever ones are proposed to be raised it will be said that rises will stall economic recovery, or hit people while they are struggling.
    In 1997 there were enough people were saying "I'm prepared to pay a bit more tax, if it means that we get decent services" that the Labour Party got a majority.
    We live in a country where people got irrationally angry about the "pasty tax", and get angry about taxes on booze, fags, fat taxes, petrol etc. Even though taxing the hell out of these things would almost certainly be a net good in the long run. When most people say "I'm prepared to pay a bit more tax" they are lying, the mean they other people should pay more.
    I remember when those on £100-120k a year got hit with Brown's pissing about with the thresholds and Polly did her nut claiming she wasn't well off and it was totally unfair taxation.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,525
    We really need some new weapons in the Covid fight - those mouth and nose sprays cannot come soon enough, and to be honest, unless they are harmful (which I'm guessing is a flat no - unless people are keeling over, the contents are clearly not toxic in the doses involved), let's get them manufactured and into peoples' homes.

    Also, as well as eating good food (limiting sugar) and doing healthy exercise, we should all be OD-ing on Vitamin D, Zinc, and Vitamin C can't hurt either.
  • CrabbieCrabbie Posts: 55

    rcs1000 said:

    I appear to have accidentally logged on to weight watchers....

    C'mon, don't be shy, get on the scales.....

    Lardy arse.
    FYI, I am just off to the pain cave for 50km on the Bike-ERG....
    Are you a Zwift-er?
    I certainly am.
    How do you fund the bike-erg? I have a row-erg (hate calling in that) and knock out 2m metres / year and really enjoy it. Have been looking at the bike-erg but the idea of constant resistance spinning seems a bit odd - I’m used to 2 mins easy, 2 mins medium, 2 mins hard etc.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,601
    It was apparent from the death figures in December that the new variant was more dangerous. Why has it taken Boris until 22 Jan to advise this? I say this as a Boris supporter.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,150
    edited January 2021
    Crabbie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I appear to have accidentally logged on to weight watchers....

    C'mon, don't be shy, get on the scales.....

    Lardy arse.
    FYI, I am just off to the pain cave for 50km on the Bike-ERG....
    Are you a Zwift-er?
    I certainly am.
    How do you fund the bike-erg? I have a row-erg (hate calling in that) and knock out 2m metres / year and really enjoy it. Have been looking at the bike-erg but the idea of constant resistance spinning seems a bit odd - I’m used to 2 mins easy, 2 mins medium, 2 mins hard etc.
    How do I fund it? I work very long hours!

    As for doing 2 min easy / medium / hard...you can absolutely do that, and that is actually what it is used a lot for within the CrossFit community. It isn't really good if you are a keen cyclist who is trying to improve as a road cyclist, as you don't have the proper gearing for mechanical advantage etc. But for me it is great as a way of going for a really hard workout for an hour+.
  • Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Why didn't they title it "Tesco Chain-Store Massacre"?
    Headlines aren't what they used to be.
  • Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Why didn't they title it "Tesco Chain-Store Massacre"?
    Headlines aren't what they used to be.
    Declinism
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,426
    edited January 2021

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Another one in the delivery club. Not been in ANY shop since March, and we're shopping for 3 households.

    It was a bit tricky early on - you had to be unfussy about which supermarket to use - but there's no problem getting slots now.

    Why take the risk if you don't have to? Besides, the fewer bodies in there, the better.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 52,899

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Good for you. But in central London, in relatively small flats (and in other cities), storing weeks' worth of food is not really an option,

    PLUS, I have developed a Covid-era passion for cooking really elaborate, restaurant-style seafood meals; Which requires nearly daily visits to a fishmongers (or my local M&S, which is surprisingly good at fresh fish).

    I reckon I could now cook a pro Masterchef round 1 seafood course, and be mildly praised. But no more than that. I am not an imaginative cook, but I have learned to follow quite tricky recipes. It is just science applied to food.

    It also uses up loads of time, and involves lots of handicraft - chopping, slicing, dicing - which I find oddly soothing in this season of mental trouble.
  • Mary_BattyMary_Batty Posts: 630
    edited January 2021

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Scaremonger article. (Almost) everyone goes to a supermarket....
    Well they should try not to go.
    Not a realistic option for the bulk of the population.
    "the bulk of the population"?
    That's mean. He said he's trying to lose weight.
  • Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Why didn't they title it "Tesco Chain-Store Massacre"?
    Headlines aren't what they used to be.
    Declinism
    I am disinclined to acquiesce to your declinism!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,098
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    Likewise. But I mask up every time. FFP2 or FFP3. I sanitise on the way in and on the way out (I generally wear gloves as well). I do not interact with anyone, I use the M&S or Sainsburys scan & go apps, which means you scan your shopping, put it in your bag, pay with Apple Pay, and just leave. You don't have to go near anyone.

    I spend about 3-4 minutes in the shop. If this is a significant Covid risk then we are doomed and I give up. I do not believe it is.
    My brother in law reckons he caught it in Tesco. Then infected his wife and son. Fortunately all OK. Wor Lass kept telling him to use click and collect but he took no notice.

    Meanwhile, people leave groceries on our doorstep. I have not been in a supermarket since March.
    Good for you. But in central London, in relatively small flats (and in other cities), storing weeks' worth of food is not really an option,

    PLUS, I have developed a Covid-era passion for cooking really elaborate, restaurant-style seafood meals; Which requires nearly daily visits to a fishmongers (or my local M&S, which is surprisingly good at fresh fish).

    I reckon I could now cook a pro Masterchef round 1 seafood course, and be mildly praised. But no more than that. I am not an imaginative cook, but I have learned to follow quite tricky recipes. It is just science applied to food.

    It also uses up loads of time, and involves lots of handicraft - chopping, slicing, dicing - which I find oddly soothing in this season of mental trouble.
    And presumably you have lots of leftover flint to use as fish tools?
  • Mortimer said:

    I find the PB obsession with military grade masks and the dangers of supermarkets absolutely baffling.

    How much time to people spend in supermarkets, and how close are you getting to others?!

    @SandyRentool - I shop about 3 days in 7. Without a car a 'big shop' doesn't really work. Nor for people who live in city/town centres - because there are fewer big supermarkets. But I spend maybe 5 minutes in the shop on each visit.

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418
    Why didn't they title it "Tesco Chain-Store Massacre"?
    Headlines aren't what they used to be.
    Declinism
    I am disinclined to acquiesce to your declinism!
    Probably for the best. It's a slippery slope.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,541

    It was apparent from the death figures in December that the new variant was more dangerous. Why has it taken Boris until 22 Jan to advise this? I say this as a Boris supporter.

    They said it was more transmissible even back then. I think the boffins have only just got the data necessary to make the determination on the effect on fatalities.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,796

    glw said:

    eristdoof said:

    kle4 said:

    People hate tax rises, but if ever there was a chance of people understanding taxes might need to rise you'd hope it would be over this situation.

    But its surely inevitable that whatever ones are proposed to be raised it will be said that rises will stall economic recovery, or hit people while they are struggling.
    In 1997 there were enough people were saying "I'm prepared to pay a bit more tax, if it means that we get decent services" that the Labour Party got a majority.
    We live in a country where people got irrationally angry about the "pasty tax", and get angry about taxes on booze, fags, fat taxes, petrol etc. Even though taxing the hell out of these things would almost certainly be a net good in the long run. When most people say "I'm prepared to pay a bit more tax" they are lying, the mean they other people should pay more.
    I remember when those on £100-120k a year got hit with Brown's pissing about with the thresholds and Polly did her nut claiming she wasn't well off and it was totally unfair taxation.
    Even thinking about a tax on second-home owners will send the Telegraph apoplectic.

    Personally I suspect we are going to need to seriously rethink the whole taxation business, because it is abundantly clear that far too many people have to manage on far too little income.
This discussion has been closed.